All About Change - Ashlyn So: Combating AAPI/Asian- Hate Through Peaceful Protest & Fashion

Episode Date: May 12, 2025

Ashlyn So is a remarkable rising star in the design world, already showcasing collections at New York and Paris Fashion Weeks by age 16. She powerfully combines her striking fashion with dedicated activism, driven by the belief that fashion provides both identity and a voice. This conviction fuels her work speaking out against bullying and AAPI/Asian-Hate. In this conversation, host Jay Ruderman and Ashlyn delve into the experience of being an introverted activist, the importance of building supportive communities for change, and how Ashlyn intentionally grows her distinct design work and impactful activism in tandem. Episode Chapters (0:00) intro (0:41) becoming an “accidental activist” (2:44) combating AAPI hate during COVID 19 (6:17) Ashlyn’s design origin story (9:30) how Ashlyn integrates her culture and activist causes into designs (12:09) Mental health as a young person with an audience (15:50) How Ashlyn organized a safe and successful rally (22:11) What’s next for Ashlyn’s design work and activism? (24:22) outro For video episodes, watch on www.youtube.com/@therudermanfamilyfoundation Stay in touch: X: @JayRuderman | @RudermanFdn LinkedIn: Jay Ruderman | Ruderman Family Foundation Instagram: All About Change Podcast | Ruderman Family Foundation To learn more about the podcast, visit https://allaboutchangepodcast.com/ Looking for more insights into the world of activism? Be sure to check out Jay’s brand new book, Find Your Fight, in which Jay teaches the next generation of activists and advocates how to step up and bring about lasting change. You can find Find Your Fight wherever you buy your books, and you can learn more about it at ⁠www.jayruderman.com⁠.

Welcome to All About Change. Today, my guest is Ashlyn So. Ashlyn is a rising star in the design world. At 16, she's already shown collections at New York Fashion Week and Paris Fashion Week, but she's so much more than that. Ashlyn combines her fashion with activism and believes that fashion gives people

an identity and a voice. She's spoken out against bullying and AAPI hate and has used her sewing skills to make over a thousand masks for frontline workers at the outset of the COVID-19 pandemic. It brings me great joy to learn from the next generation of activists. So Ashlyn, welcome to All About Change. Thank you so much for having me. So back in 2021, you called yourself an accidental activist. Do you think that someone is born to be an activist or does a person simply step into

that role when injustice is in front of them? I definitely think that, yeah, being an activist is not something that I ever intended to or everyone or anyone ever says, oh, I want to be an activist. I feel like it's definitely something you step into. For me personally, it was back in 2021, I saw a lot of hate and just a lot of injustice happening in my own community, in my own city. And it felt like the first time I've ever seen anything like it, the first time I've ever seen people getting hurt like this, people that I knew that I looked like.

So this was like very shocking to me because my parents had never shown me anything like this. So seeing that for the first time, I was like, there's no way I'm going to let this happen in my community. I have to do something about it. And whether it's something super small, or something like a rally, I wanted to just get people together in my community and just almost just very small, like raise awareness to the situation because I didn't think many people knew about it at the time. So I organized my first rally then. And that was the first time I ever did any public speaking, because I was very shy. I was very young.

Stepping into a space like that was very different for me, especially because I've never done anything kind of really putting myself out there like that. Right. But I didn't feel like that at the time, because I felt like it was for something else. Even though I was super shy, I felt like I had the power to speak about this issue. Like I was given a voice and I have to use it.

And I feel like that's something so important to like other people as well. Lots of other activists, I think they feel similar ways. Just being able to use what you have and really empower other people with it. So let's talk about Asian hate. You come from the San Francisco area. Yes.

And there was an explosion of hate against Asian-Americans, specifically against older people. Can you talk about what happened and maybe some of your personal connections to some of the people that were injured. Yeah, so that the first I think incident I ever saw was Amy Tonopati's dad who got shoved on the street and that was like completely like shocking to me

because first of all like in in my culture, honoring elders, like respecting elders is a huge thing and they are like the pillars of our community, right? And we have so much respect for them and the fact that seeing anyone hurt like that for just no reason was completely like shocking. And I think it hurt and shocked everyone in the community. And especially I think Asian Americans, like they don't like to speak up or they don't like to do anything about situations. But with this specifically, I saw people that never used to speak up or never used to want to do anything, you know, come up into the community. Like personally,

I knew that like, if I ever saw like my grandma or my grandpa, like ever getting hurt like that, like I would literally be like shattered. When I first like organized the rally, like that was the first time I ever saw like my old classmates, like their parents who said, oh, we can't come out, like especially because it was during Covid, like it's unsafe. We don't really want to, but we really do support your cause. They ended up coming to the rally with their family. And what I saw was lots of kids, too.

I think creating that family safe space and being able to just bring your kids to that was almost very, very touching to me, because I saw that everybody really wanted to help. And it wasn't just about rallies or anything, it was about just being a community of change. Recently, there have been many attacks against Asians and Asian elders. So today, we're going to raise awareness for this cause and stand up for Asians. I started looking into this and I found out that many of these cases are not reported

as hate crimes and this wasn't okay. I met this self-defense teacher who begins teaching self-defense classes to elders and everyone was doing everything they could and I think that's what was really special about it and it gave everyone a chance to rise up together and create a space to really fight back against all the hate that was happening. And wasn't there an issue where the authorities were not prosecuting?

Yes. Or starting the prosecution process and looking at this as a hate crime? Yeah, after the rally, I was very close with Amy Matanapakty, who had, and I still think she is continuing to try to get the prosecution as a hate crime. It's such a long process and everyone keeps denying it or just not acknowledging the fact that it is a hate crime.

And I think even with all the movements that she's done, she's protested in front of City Hall, really reached out to London Breed, and tried to get everything, a specific crime, prosecuted. It was still very hard too. And I think it is still a process that she's going through. So I want to talk a little bit about you and fashion. You're sort of a prodigy. You started at a Montessori school, learning how to sew.

And at a very early age, you were very creative. You were at New York Fashion Week and Paris Fashion Week. And where did that come from? Because I've heard interviews with your mother and father, and they're like, it's not from us. But they backed you. And like, where did that love of fashion come from? So I think for me, like it wasn't,

there was just like a very small thing in Montessori school, but I like used to make these little like ornaments and we would hand sew them for like Christmas and stuff, or like just little stuffed animals that we made. And just being able to hand sew, like it was super special to me. So I asked my mom, from when I was like six to like eight to take me to sewing class and just to learn how to sew. And when she finally let me, I literally just fell in love with fashion.

And I did one class and ever since then I've like fell in love with fashion and I did one class and ever since then I've like fell in love with it and I did it at home and I started creating my own things and just designing and I feel like it's such an amazing space to be in because I loved being creative and I love bringing something new into this world. Yeah it was just an amazing process in general that I found them. And your fashion is so unique. I mean, I've never seen anything like it. You know, with the top design, like a sail of a Chinese ship, and there's a meaning in your fashion.

You're trying to get a message out. So you're integrating your activism and your fashion. Can you talk a little bit about that, about like how you combine the two? After 2020, I kind of, yeah, I started my new collection for New York Fashion Week and I felt that I wanted to combine my fashion and my activism together.

I really want, I took inspiration from the community that I saw that was being built and I was like I want to make a collection inspired by this because it's such a beautiful movement Yeah, so I kind of got inspiration from Bruce Lee's quote be like water and I wanted to make in a collection that was about going against stereotypes and Really kind of how everyone is fluid and everyone is water and everyone's different and we should be celebrating that in each of our own ways. So I created a very couture, sculptural kind of collection that was representing water.

Ever since then, yeah, I've wanted to make all my collections have a certain meaning to it because fashion to me is something that everyone wears. It's a pillar of our everyday lives. And being able to express yourself through fashion is a huge thing. And I wanted to use my pieces as conversation starters. So when people would wear my clothing, I would want them to talk about, you know, the meaning behind it and be able to spark a new conversation with a new person. You're making all of these dresses by yourself.

Yeah. In your own studio. Yes. Which are very unique. I know, I remember you talking about, you know, using your culture, the bowls that are blue and white, and using those colors. Can you talk about a little bit about how your culture is woven into your design? Yeah, so I really wanted to take what I knew about my culture, and I really wanted to put it into my designs,

and I really wanted to get inspired by that. So I would remember when I was in my grandma's house, like she would always make us like fried rice and it would always be in these like porcelain bowls. So I made my entire collection blue and white to represent porcelain. And then yeah, there was like different elements in the collection. Like you said earlier, like the Chinese sales, I created like a top inspired by that. And, you know, I see like a lot of everyday kind of objects and things and I really am able to like kind of create it into a design. And that's kind of what inspires me.

Your designs have grown, you know, from your early line for children, Enchanted Winter Forest to your more mature recent collections. And we've seen you grow in maturity in terms of your fashion. But it seemed like in terms of activism, you were almost fully formed, you know, as soon as you became an activist and you took on race-based hate and public health. Do you think your activism will grow in the same way that your fashion has grown? Yeah, I definitely think so. I think the spaces that I've gotten into through activism

has definitely grew and changed. I think in the beginning, it was literally just me and then my family helping me plan the rally in one week because it was such an urgent situation that I just felt like, yes, we need to do it now, now, now, as soon as possible. But then throughout time, I've been able to meet so many other fellow activists and organizations and just leaders in the community who have inspired me so much in so many different ways. And I think just like the way my fashion has grew,

I feel like my activism has well. I've been getting into more of the mental health space, especially with the most recent collection. And yeah, I don't know. I think I'm very inspired by the people around know, how they've been able to make change. Right. How do you deal with the mental health issue? Because, you know, you're a younger person and you're on social media and you're outspoken and there's so much hate out there. And I remember, you know, listening to your mother who said, listen, you know, I take a lot of that stuff away so she doesn't see that.

I don't know if she's still doing that. Yeah. But how do you deal with that, you know, pressure? I definitely think that there's lots, yeah, of pressure, especially being a teenager. And then, yeah, being kind of like putting myself out there. And she was, yes, I'm very grateful to her because she has like shielded me from a lot of hate, especially when I was younger. But I think now that I'm older, it's easier to get in that hate, especially for my peers and stuff.

And I think dealing with that is, is definitely hard. It's something that I'm still working on and same with like mental health. Like It's something that I'm still working on. And same with like mental health. Like it's something that I'm like still working on and still on a journey of. But I think just like being able to be surrounded by like loving and positive people and just being able to remember like, or like practicing self-worth and self-affirmations has been very helpful.

Being able to just make sure that, yeah, who you're with and who you're starting with is very intentional. Yeah. I think, you know, getting back to what we talked about being shy and, you know, there's this feeling like activists have a tough skin, but they don't all have a tough skin. The bullying, you know, does get to you. Yeah. But I do feel like, you know, when you think of the causes much higher than you, and you were

put into a situation, given the platform, and you're using it, maybe can give you a little bit like, well, it's not about me. Yeah, exactly. You know, people might be attacking me, but it's really not about me. They're mad at some other reason of what I'm saying or what I represent. I mean, at least for me, I think that that helps me a little bit. Yeah, definitely.

And what about being in school? Cause you're still in school. So how is that? I mean, you have success beyond your peers. Do you deal with bullying at all? And how have you been able to deal with that? Yeah, definitely. I think not just from my school, but from like people around me.

And they definitely have. Yeah, there's definitely a lot of hate coming at me. So an issue that I'm dealing with. But I think with every day it gets like better because, yeah, like they like you said, it isn't about me. It's about like a bigger cause. And it's about something that I want to change. And if people are mad about that, like they're not mad at me and I have to like remind myself of that. And I think dealing with it is definitely hard. You know, like you have to keep your circle so

small. Right. Just like being able to keep your circle so small. Right. Just like being able to remind yourself like that. You love yourself and you have loving people around you. It's, yeah, it makes everything easier, I guess. You know, I saw a video of you when you were really young and you were doing an interview and it was very emotional for you. Yeah.

Is it better now? Definitely not. I feel like I am such an emotional person for some reason. Especially talking about like vulnerable things, but I think I've grown to accept it more. Talking about real things makes me emotional, but that's okay. I kind of like learned to like accept that. And I definitely think that I've grown a lot, though, and I've healed a lot. And in those ways, it's gotten a lot better.

So Ashlyn, I want to take you back to what happened during COVID with the Asian hate and organizing the rally. And how were you able to organize a rally so quickly, get so many people involved? But more importantly, we see a lot of rallies that are very violent and very hateful. And from what I saw, the rally that you did was very peaceful. People came together.

There was sort of a message of love that we have something to say, but we're not going to be violent and lash out. Was that something that was done intentionally, saying, how did you organize a large rally and keep it safe at the same time? That was something that, yeah, that was very intentional. From the beginning, we wanted it to be all about love and unity and something that was very community based, something that was very family oriented. So yeah, the first rally I ever organized was super, super fast.

It was just in one week because of the urgent situation and the urgent need. I think from the start, it was important to set that intention of what is the rally about. The rally was about standing for Asians and standing up. So that's what I wanted to do, set that clear intention. And then afterwards, it's all about logistics and stuff, making sure to get the permits, finding location. And I wanted to do it in my community park, because it is a very like family area. And it is like a perfect place to just kind of spread that message along with like a big

street on the side to really spread the message to people driving around and stuff. After that, like we wanted to make sure that people in the community knew about it. So we reached out to lots of speakers and people who are already kind of in the space and to get them to come out and to talk about their different perspectives because I think it's also important to have different people speak. And then afterwards, we wanted to make sure like the media knew about it because it was important to, you know, spread that message. And so yeah, like I posted it on Nextdoor and I had a lot of people come out as like families, news people coming as well. And I think I wanted to keep it very loving and very peaceful.

So I wanted to make sure that everyone who was coming was kind of families or just a very community-oriented rally. It sounds like a lot of work. And it came together very quickly. I've always believed that most people are fair and just and they react to injustice. Yes. Did you find that the rally had an impact? I definitely think it had an impact.

I think after that, I noticed just lots of more rallies happening and lots of people coming out to speak who would never speak before. And I had a lot of younger kids that come up to me and they felt so inspired and they wanted to speak up as well. And I think change comes from many different places and I think different self changes and different realizations and just being able to grow is super important. And yeah, I did notice that from the rally afterwards. I noticed people who would never do these things before were able to adapt and change and they wanted to do something. And I noticed how just afterwards, yeah, there was just so many more. After weekend after weekend, there was protests and rallies,

and they were all very much more peaceful than I had seen before. Right. Yeah, and I hoped to, like, have a little bit of impact and change in the community in that way. Did you notice a difference as a result of these rallies that, you know, the level of attacks on Asian Americans went down after these rallies that the level of attacks on Asian Americans went down after these rallies?

I think after a while, it definitely did because people were finally speaking up about it, about this issue. But I think also the long-term solutions were much more impactful as well. We were able to get the Asian American studies kind of implemented. And I'll notice people talking about the railroad workers.

And I'll be literally so happy because you knew about that. You learned about that in school. That's a change that we were able to be a part of. Yeah, just knowing about that, it makes me super happy to know that we've made a little bit of impact. So you're saying that before this activism, what you were learning in school, what others were learning in school about the history of Asian Americans in America was not widely known.

Yeah. And then after that, you were able to influence the curriculum, at least in your school and maybe other schools, to learn about the history of Asian Americans in America. Yeah, I definitely think so. And it was just not just me, it was like the whole community being able to do everything they could to implement these studies. When I was in like middle school, elementary school, I hadn't learned nothing about Asian-Americans. And I had only known about the railroad workers

because of a substitute teacher who saw the curriculum. And he was like, there's nothing about us in here. So he decided to go against the book and teach us about it. And I immediately came home and told my parents, did you know about this? Did they? They did know about it. But I didn't know about it. And they're like, oh, you didn't learn about this?

That's weird. They should be teaching you this, especially because at the time I was going to a school that taught two languages, and it was Chinese and then also English, but we still didn't learn about Asian-American studies. So then now even I'm hearing people talk talk about it and I get so proud and I'm just like I'm so happy that they know about this situation. So Ashlyn, let's talk a little bit about your projects that you're working on now. How have they changed and

like what's your direction in terms of fashion? Because now you're going to be going from high school to college. What are your dreams? Well, I hope to build an amazing fashion brand and I hope to create a couture luxury brand. And I think, yeah, definitely have to go to college. But I think throughout, I still want to be able to continue to build my business. And I want to build it in a very intentional way. I still want to have my messages of love and unity implemented into my fashion and still have fashion as a conversation starter. What's the future of your activism? I think it's going to take me in

many different ways. But I think right now, mental health is something that I think I want to continue to pursue and keep going in, especially because it's such impactful situation in my generation. Yeah, and I really hope to be able to kind of create some change about that. A couple months ago, because we're talking about combining art and activism. And I interviewed a Ukrainian ballet dancer, Alexis Tytunek, who shared with me his perspective about art can shift culture and actually create change. And I saw this as really, really powerful because it's not just the message being directly thrown

at you, but it's coming in through art. Is that something that you're always going to be committed to, that as you progress and become a more successful designer, that activism will always be part of what you do? I definitely think so. I think activism is now a part of me. Yeah, even as a young age, I still wanted everything to be full of love and full of

good intention and positivity. And I still think now I want to continue to build my brand on that and on that message and being able to continue to intertwine art and activism together throughout my career. Well, Ashlyn, I hope you go from success to success. Thank you. And you've had an amazing career so far, and I'm sure you will be successful. Can you tell us a little bit about your website and how people can learn more about the work you're doing or your social media and how they can watch what you're doing?

Yeah. or your social media and how they can watch what you're doing? Yeah, so my social media on Instagram is ashtonso underscore and you can visit my work and my brand at ashtonso.com. Thank you so much. Thank you so much for listening to All About Change. Today's episode was produced by Tani Levitt and Mijan Zulu. Stay tuned for our next episode featuring Gary Sinise. Spread the word or leave us a review on your favorite podcasting app. We'd really appreciate it.

That's all for now. I'm Jay Ruderman and we'll see you soon with another episode of All About Change.