All About Change - Diversity in Television, with Tiffany Smith-Anoa’i

Episode Date: January 18, 2021

Tiffany Smith-Anoa'i almost failed out of college - but she bounced back to become Executive Vice President at CBS, where she's working to include more minorities and people with disabilities in new productions.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

I was not going to be window dressing. There was no way that I was not going to let this happen. As I said, when I created the role, performers with disabilities were always in that palette. always in that palette. All Inclusive, a podcast on inclusion, innovation, and social justice with Jay Ruderman. Hello, and welcome to All Inclusive. I'm Jay Ruderman. Vice President, Entertainment Diversity, Inclusion and Communications at CBS Entertainment. The story of her ascent from a college student hailing from LA with a full scholarship to Howard University to her current position is a fascinating one, complete with a bumper too, and peopled with interesting characters and decisive principled actions. So welcome, Tiffany, and thank you for joining me on All Inclusive.

It is my pleasure. It's always good to see you, and I am so happy to be joining your podcast today. Thank you. Tiffany, you are truly one of the leading pioneers in advocating for inclusion and diversity in entertainment. I want to talk a little bit about your background, which I found fascinating. You grew up in Los Angeles and received a full scholarship to Howard University, and yet you lost the scholarship. Can you tell us your story about what happened there and the lesson that stuck with you throughout your life? Absolutely. I did. I got a full four-year academic scholarship to Howard University. And I got to campus and got to Washington, D.C. And the first winter came. And as you note, I'm a native Angeleno. I was not ready for the weather. I was not ready. I don't even think that I was really ready for college, let's say, in the sense of being immature and not taking my studies as serious as I should be. I would like to note that in order to maintain that academic scholarship, all I had to maintain was a 3.0, and that's a B. Someone should be able to do that. And this is

when I say that 17-year-old me lost my mind, and I made poor decisions in the sense of that, oh, it's too cold outside. I'm not going to go to class. I got an A on that test last week. It's not necessary to go again. And so I did not put my studies as a priority, but also at the same time, I was telling my parents how great I was doing. I think that I, like when I say that I truly really lost my mind, I really did in the sense of that I was,

oh, you know what? I need a car because I'm working. So if we could ship me a car and I don't want to live in the dorms anymore. I think I would like to live off campus. And mind you, so I come home for break and my parents pick me up in a brand new Jeep, brand new car, because I've been doing so great. And then they say, you know what? It'd probably be safer for you to be in an apartment. Let's pay six months in advance. They do this in advance. And then the grades come. I get a 2.9. I miss it by one percentage and I lose my academic scholarship. Therefore, my mother, who sat me down at the kitchen table and I can feel and smell and taste everything that was happening at that moment. And she said these words to me. She said, you took someone's spot. And when I looked, it just broke my heart that I did take someone's spot that deserved to be at an institute for higher education. And I took someone's spot,

and I did not take it serious. And so she said that if you want to return to Howard, And so she said that if you want to return to Howard, you figure out how to get back there. You pay for the next semester and they gave me a Nova. And this Nova, I don't know if anyone remembers Novas, but it was a Nova that was like barely running and the heater never turned off. So I was hot throughout the summers and I'd have to drive with the windows down. And I got a job. I wasn't able to go anywhere. I was able to save over $30,000 and I was able to re-enroll at Howard and I graduated with honors and still in only four years. So there was definitely a silver lining to it. But if I hadn't failed my freshman year and failed so spectacularly, if you will, I think that that was such a life lesson that it makes me appreciate and never take any one spot. And that's what I have learned through that. So it is

something that is ingrained in my brain that I always remember what I did that freshman year. Well, it's such a powerful lesson. And as a father of a 17-year-old, I can identify with your mindset. But again, your persistence, your ability to focus, and to get back to where you wanted to be, I think is the key to success. Now, you started your career as a publicist working for Nike Towns and Sinbad. How did you land at CBS? And did you always feel you were going to end up in entertainment? you land at CBS? And did you always feel you were going to end up in entertainment? I felt I didn't feel that I was always going to be an entertainment per se, I really had a desire for sports. And so that's why I stayed at Nike for so long. So it gave me that adjacent to I was sports adjacent. And I was doing PR for Nike towns, Those are retail stores that were open across the country and being the liaison between the store and our athletes. And I have a friend and she told me, hey, CBS is hiring for a publicist. And I interviewed for it, but they said that I was overqualified. And they asked if I knew anyone that didn't have as much experience as I did, but was like me.

And so I thought of you. You can get an interview. So send in your resume. So I sent in the resume, went in, and I nailed the interview. And the asterisk to this story is my friend Ava DuVernay, who everyone knows as a director now, but she started as a publicist. She is the reason why I am at CBS. And she was the reason, she was the overqualified friend that gave me an opportunity. So that's how I landed at CBS in publicity.

You also say that when you entered into CBS, there was no one like you there. Yes. When you looked around the room, what did that feel like and what impact did that have on you? It was a little shocking to tell you the truth. When I first showed up to work or even for the interview, it wasn't even the first day of work. It was the interview that I noticed it most. Number one, it's a communications department, but when I came in, it was really quiet. And it wasn't what I expected. I thought that it would be bustling and almost like a newsroom. I was used to that environment. So that was number one. It kind of got my spidey senses up, if you will. And then

when I came for the first day at work, I realized I was like, wow, when we had a meeting, I'm the only person of color, any color in the entire department. And that was both West and East Coast. And I always usually say that with an asterisk because a lot of people stay at CBS for a long time. It's a good, obviously a good testament to the company. I myself just celebrated 20 years in this past February, but I'm kind of a thank you. I'm kind of a spring chicken in that sense, because there's more people that have been there 25, 30, 35, 40 years. And so I think that that was another reason why it looked the way it did is that no one left. So it didn't give an opportunity for others to come in. Tell us why you feel diversity is important in

your industry and the story of how you created your position at CBS. Sure. I started as a publicist at Legacy CBS, and I really noticed that television was going in the direction of more inclusivity as well as needing more diversity, both in front of and behind the camera. And one of the ways that was a real through line was actually the 1999-2000 season. That particular season is when diversity talks sprouted up for all of the major networks. And four major coalitions got together that particular year, the NAACP, the National Hispanic Media Coalition, the Asian Pacific American Media Coalition, and the Native American Coalition.

Those four coalitions banded together and demanded that the major networks really put more diversity, both in front of and behind the camera. But the catalyst for that was that during right around this time that fall shows were being launched and there was not one person of color in any series regular role across all three networks. That was the spark of it. And with me being in publicity, we were on the receiving end of a lot of those calls.

So they would be, oh, the NAACP is on the phone. What do we say? And my reaction being the only person of color in the entire department is they speak English. Let's talk to them. Let's have a conversation. That's how ultimate change happens. And before I ever knew that this could be a real job, it was the research that I continue to do and looking at the numbers and the business case for diversity. The business case for diversity has been proven over and over and over again. However, I feel that at that time, it was one of the things that I needed to create for a major network. And so I had a little PowerPoint that I put together and went into my boss's office. And I said, I don't think that you are managing me in the most effective way.

This is where television is going. And I said, at this point, we are not even playing in the game. We are at home. The television is off and we're asleep on the couch. And it was two years in the making of this being a real department. But I kept my head steadfast in knowing that I wanted there to be much more diversity in front of and behind the camera and being diverse in all of its diverseness, if you will. And let me say that again, diversity does not solely mean race and ethnicity and or sexual orientation. It does not mean it also includes performers and people with disabilities. And that was always a priority for me as I created this

position. Octavia Spencer recently did a public service announcement for our foundation calling for authentic representation of disability in film and television. And one of the lines in the PSA that she said stuck with me, she said that the first time she saw someone like herself on TV was on the show, The Jeffersons, which was a great show for those of us who are old enough to remember the show. I remember The Jeffersons. But you've spoken about this. Why do you feel it's important for people to see themselves portrayed authentically on TV and in film? I think that it is important for people to see themselves represented in media across the board because it lets others know how to treat us. People look to television, films, media, social media as well on what that represents. And these images travel the globe. This is something where it's not just a cute hashtag to say, oh, representation matters. It really is. People look to television also that, oh, I saw it on TV, so it must be true.

Sometimes that's their only window into the world. And if you are only seeing it through homogenous ways and a lens that is so narrow, you are not seeing the richness of cultures. And then therefore you don't respect them. What is unknown to a lot of people becomes fearful of it also. And or it slips into a stereotype that is perpetuated. So it's one of those that representation allows for creativity. It allows for people to actually be their full selves and not having to adhere to the limited view of what people have seen for centuries in this business. Right. And addressing the issue of stigma, I'm now paraphrasing. Michelle Obama said that most of us get to know people who are not like us by seeing people on TV. It is such an impactful medium that it seems as America changes and America becomes more diverse, that we would like to see more people from different backgrounds authentically portrayed on television and in film. And especially when it comes to disability, we know there's always been this concept that great acting means playing a disability. Yet for

the disability community, this inauthentic portrayal of disability is deeply offensive. That's beginning to change. I see changes all the time in new TV shows, but we have a long way to go in that area. Absolutely. I couldn't agree with you more. I think that I don't want it to only be that we've done this once and done. Oh, we did it. It was great. We put somebody, a performer with a disability in, and then we're done with this. I think that the way that this entire industry is based on relationships, it truly is. And that's why I want more people meeting each other. I always talk about the Ruderman Family Foundation. Oh, do you know them?

Have you heard of them? You should do a general with them. This industry is based on relationships. So the more that people actually speak and listen to one another, that creates opportunity. But if you are speaking to the same people, hiring the same people, looking at the same stories all of the time, you get into a rut. Well, thank you. And you know, we're proud of whatever part we've been able to play, but without partners such as yourself and other people I've met over the years, we're not of the industry. So we really

need to connect our advocacy with people who are on the inside, really doing the day-to-day work. I'll never forget our meeting at CBS when I came to you and asked you to sign the Ruderman Family Foundation pledge to audition actors with disabilities. And you said to me something to the effect of, that sounds right. We'll sign. How were you able to so quickly commit to the pledge? And can you talk about how CBS has empowered you to make such impactful decisions? Absolutely. I mean, I think that when you are someone that creates a division or a department and has that headstrong attitude, I was not going to be window dressing. I am not State Farm insurance in the sense of that you just wheel me out when

you need me to get you out of trouble. It is much more being proactive. So this was something that, again, as I said, when I created the role, performers with disabilities were always in that palette. And so when you came in and said this, it was a no brainer. I didn't have to go ask anyone else. I knew that this was something that if I went back and said to our president, to our chairman, to whomever, our head of casting, this is what we were doing. And that was the other thing. It wasn't an ask. And I think that when we can shift our mentality a little bit in that sense, where we don't always have to ask for something, that when I had to show you that there was no way that I was not going to let this happen.

And I didn't also receive any resistance on it. There were definitely questions such as, okay, well, we're already doing this, aren't we? Sure, we're already doing it, but we could always do it better. We could always do it more. We could always have, and we should also be very deliberate about it. So that was the other thing, Jay, that this was public facing. And I wanted our other industry partners to see, hey, this is serious. We want you all to join us. And that's why it was much more of a call to action. So first of all, thank you. And I want to tell you, I had a conversation not so long ago with Nina Tassler, who was the past chairwoman

of CBS Entertainment, and she could not stop singing your praises about your impact on the company. Do you feel that over the past year that you've noticed a trend in the increase of authentic representation of diversity in television without getting into any specific shows? Do you think that there's something happening out there? Absolutely. I think that we are no longer just working with the same three creators. And I think that new ideas and most people that are coming up with new ideas, new shows, new stories, they have inclusive rooms. They want authentic representation. And again, I want to be clear, most media isn't obviously the history channel. These are not historic documents that have to be factually and actually correct. There is still entertainment there. However, it has been one way for so long where it's only been where this is the only way that we can do it because that's been the only way that it's been done and that's what has been accepted for so long. But yes, in the past year, I truly feel that the creators that we are witnessing, they want to tell more inclusive stories and it makes for richer stories. It really does. So it's

no longer just, oh, let's see what we can remake. And I don't also want there to be diversity just for diversity's sake. I don't want to always feel as though it is something that is tokenized and or trying to put a circle into a square. It needs to fit naturally. It needs to be done authentically. And that's why more people need to talk to others who aren't like them. Right, right. Based on your experience, what needs to happen for there to be true diversity in Hollywood? What are the steps that need to be taken? I think that there are several steps. And I think that, I mean, believe me, in my department has become the most important department in the history of departments ever since May 25th. I will tell you that, that George Floyd happened. And I think that all of a sudden, it was one of those

that had been clamoring, oh my gosh, what do I do? Can you look at my memo? Blah, blah, blah. But this has been going on for hundreds of centuries. We need to be very clear about that. I think that in order to have true diversity moving forward, you need to have diverse teams. That's number one, that in people that are making decisions, they have to have inclusive teams, that they actually include people. That's the root of the word. And so I think that Hollywood has been very linear as it pertains to diversity. They've been linear in a lot of other ways,

but as it pertains to diversity, they've been very linear in their thinking. And it is because it has been a certain way. The stats and the facts and the numbers that I like to deal with, first and foremost, they don't lie. They're not making up a story. We know that in directors, they are heavily white males. Okay, well, let's try to have a more balanced list with that. Let's make sure that we are providing access, exposure, and opportunity for those in this business. So I feel that those

are a few of the steps in making sure, because it's also very factual, when you have more of a diverse team, you have diverse outcomes. And so if you don't, then you normally don't. So I think that that's the other thing. More people in decision-making positions that, like when you came in and said, hey, we want to do this. And I didn't have to wait. I didn't have to get back to you. I was able to be empowered to say, yes, this is what we're doing. Can I sign on the dotted line? And what else do you want to talk about? Because we finished that business. It didn't take two months to figure out. So I think that again, if you have more inclusivity in your ranks and you empower them and allow them to allow them that space, then that's when you have better outcomes.

Otherwise, you just have people and companies that just say that they want to do better over and over and over again. And I am so exhausted with the aspirational do better. And I'm doing air quotes right now, but you can't see that, but that's what I'm doing. The do better. Like to me, just do it. That's the thing. These systems that have been in place, Jay, they have to be dismantled and reconfigured. And I think that that's what we are seeing right now. So I think that you and your network are unique in jumping on things and recognizing trends quickly and responding to the public, which you're serving. You know, we also work with many, many universities, and universities also have diversity officers. And unfortunately, a lot of them will come to us after a meeting and pull us aside to listen. We don't have the authority to make a decision. There are things that need to be done at universities, but we're not moving the ball forward. So I think that any

institution, whether it's a university or a studio or a major corporation, they're going to come to this realization that they'll probably benefit from it in terms not only of their public reputation, but also to being able to see it reflect in the bottom line. But some work slower than others. I wanted to pick up on a point that you made, which is extremely important because we're living in such very turbulent times right now. Let's talk a little bit about racial injustice. I just looked at a piece this week in the Washington Post about police shows and how the police are being portrayed in a certain way. And there may be a lack of nuance in that,

and that it's something that you're addressing. So how is your company addressing issues of racial injustice and adapting to what's happening in real time on the streets in the United States? on the streets in the United States? I think that we have a new president and CEO, George Cheeks, and he just started in March. And this has made a lot of changes for not only CBS, but that I think that will help the industry that we specifically for our writers room, who's writing the stories that we have right now that for the 2021 season, that we are going to have 40% of our writers that are people of color. And hopefully for 2022, that's going to be 50%.

We are also in development, have 25% of our development fund going for people of color creatives. You have to be deliberate about it. We also have a partnership with the NAACP that we are going to be having, there'll be a whole department at the studio that is going to have an opportunity to hear more stories, more voices. And we have a lot of police procedurals on our network. We gave an opportunity and joined partnership with 21CP Solutions and have experts and not only just police officers or former police officers, but those that study criminal justice and injustice, civil rights

attorneys also as consultants. So we have what we like to call a brain trust of about six consultants from 21CP that are going to be working directly with our police procedurals on more authentic storytelling, just something different. Again, not trying to change and quelch creativity, not trying to put any sort of agenda one way or the other. But again, like I said earlier, when I said we've seen things based one way for a long time, if someone came to me and had a whole bag of resources, I would want to utilize those. And that's what this is. We're looking at it to really make sure that we are opening up our resource bag to our shows to make them as authentic and as representative as possible. Is there anything that you're working on now that you

can talk about that's particularly exciting for you? Yes. Well, we just finished Inclusion Week in Viacom. At Legacy Viacom, they have done inclusion week, it started in the UK, and then it came over to the States. This was the third year that they did it, we had to reimagine everything because due to COVID, obviously, and everything was online. But we had over 90 sessions with amazing speakers that the entire company could be really part of. And I think that that has been something that is continuing to have ripple effects into what we are doing and how we're doing the work. So that is the one that stands out to me right now

of what we are doing. And we are also upcoming, and I don't think that you've ever attended, but our sketch comedy showcase. I've always told you about it, but you're, you haven't. Yes. And that is actually, we again, we'll be doing it all digitally and I'm excited about that. So that's something that's coming up and I'm hopeful that now that it is all digital, that you can now participate in it and we can share that with your listeners. And we've had some very successful

people go through that program. Oh, yes, absolutely. I mean, so many people have come out of Showcase from Tiffany Haddish to Kate McKinnon, Randall Park. There are so many people have been part of Showcase that are now and they didn't need Show showcase, let me tell you. They were already talented, but they just were able to have that stage and they've grown on to so many really, really great careers right now. And we're really proud that they even graced us with their presence. You've had a tremendous impact and you'll continue to have a great impact. Let me end by asking you more of a general philosophical question. Our lives are very fast paced. And as you said, it's like 24 seven with social media and people consuming content. How do you think the entertainment industry is going to evolve to remain relevant

to people's lives? And how do you think it will remain socially responsible? to people's lives? And how do you think it will remain socially responsible? I think that it will remain relevant because right now, more than ever, we still need escapism. We still need creativity. We still need television shows. And whether you like to watch it on the box in your home or on the computer or in your hand with your phone, there are those options. So I feel that that will always remain relevant. The art of storytelling is going nowhere. I will say that in telling this in a social justice way and telling this with this type of lens, the more that we can create space for more stories, then we are able to see much more within that realm. So that's where I think, and that's where I also feel that with streaming platforms, with other ways of social

media, people are already telling their stories and they don't need a network to say yes to them. And I love that. I love that people are creating stories on their own devices, short stories, films, whatever that it is, and we are benefiting it. Just similar to you doing this podcast right now. There's so many podcasts that people are discovering at this time that they might not have known about before. So that's what leaves me really, really hopeful for the industry and knowing that there is space for all of that to coexist.

So I totally agree with you that I think storytelling will always be with us. And in many ways, storytelling is more impactful and more empowering in breaking down stigma than anything else. When people are relaxed and consuming content that's diverse and inclusive, it will impact people and change the face of our country. You are a pioneer. I'm so proud to know you, and thank you for spending the time with us on this podcast. I just hope that more people in the industry will recognize you and CBS Viacom and the leadership you've had, and will follow your example. Now, I really appreciate it. Thanks for taking the time to even speak with me.

You know, I adore you, your organization, everything that you all stand for. And it's really, truly my honor to be a partner with you as we continue to watch this change together. Thank you so much. I really appreciate it. All Inclusive is a production of the Ruderman Family Foundation. All Inclusive is a production of the Ruderman Family Foundation. Our key mission is the full inclusion of people with disabilities in all aspects of society.

You can find All Inclusive on Apple Podcasts, Google Play, Spotify, and Stitcher. To view the show notes, transcripts, or to learn more, go to rudermanfoundation.org slash allinclusive. Have an idea for a podcast? Be sure to tweet at Jay Ruderman.