All About Change - Season 2, Episode 9: Special Interview with World-Famous Doctor and Social Media Sensation Dr. Mike

Episode Date: June 11, 2019

Jay meets Doctor Mikhail Varshavski, a.k.a. “Dr. Mike”, at MIT where he takes part in a unique program focusing on social justice in the digital age. Dr. Mike discusses the evolution of his social media presence and shares how he uses entertainment as a way to teach people about medicine on social media.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

With over 7 million social media subscribers, Dr. Mike is one of the most famous doctors in the world. Today, he's joining All Inclusive. All Inclusive, a podcast on inclusion, innovation, and social justice with Jay Ruderman. justice with Jay Ruderman. Hi, and welcome to All Inclusive. I'm your host, Jay Ruderman. Dr. Mikhail Varshavsky, better known as Dr. Mike, is a family medicine physician, but you most likely recognize him from social media. He's a social media entrepreneur, TV medical expert, philanthropist, and physician. Dr. Mike, thank you for joining me today. Thank you so much. Appreciate it and very, very excited to be here. Now, you are now taking medicine to a new audience with a fresh message, but when you opened your first Instagram account,

you had a very different purpose. So what was that? Yeah, so when I started my social media career, which it's now became my career, it's crazy to say, I initially started to prove to folks that in medical school you don't have to give up your life to study and practice medicine. It's a very common stigma that's out there that I think discourages some really bright minds from entering an important field that really lacks some creativity, some unique thinking. field that really lacks some creativity, some unique thinking. And I thought that by showing people you can have a successful social life, a good family life, still do well in school and be involved in a myriad of activities. I thought I could be that motivational driver to get a new set of minds to enter the field. And I didn't have a well thought out plan on how to make this happen

because I wasn't well versed in the social media space, but I learned and evaluated through each one of my actions and mistakes, which there were plenty of, of how to become better and more effective as a leader, as someone who is both a professional yet very popular in the social media space. And it's been a crazy, crazy journey. So when you first started, let's dissect it a little bit. What were some of the mistakes that you ran into and what did you learn from that? I think that I was good at creating and crafting my message, but I wasn't an effective user of social media in order to get that message out there. In order for me to have learned this message and learn how to get my

message out there, I had to practice what I preached. I had to lead by example. I had to start using social media. I had to see where I could do better. And I think doctors really fall to the same issue in that they may know all the possible diagnoses. They may know all the best treatment options, but if they don't know how to get that message to the humans sitting across from them, they fail in their mission. And what I didn't want to do is I didn't want to fail in my mission to educate people about health, to educate about the field of medicine, how amazing it is, and how you don't have to believe the stigma that you have to give up your life in order to practice medicine. So through all of these situations where I could have improved, I then started improving.

But the only way I was able to do that is by evaluating where my mistakes were. And some of those mistakes were what? Not being an effective leader, not using the proper hashtags, not spreading my message through collaboration, through networking, because I used to look at folks who network often and view that as a negative thing, as if they were trying to manipulate people or get something from them. But what I later learned, now I use very passionately, is the idea of influence needs to be instilled in all professionals, especially

doctors. Now I study the field of influence and I see how I need to be able to influence my patients just as well as a marketer does because I need them to take their medicines. I need them to change their lifestyle habits to lead healthier lives. But the only way I'm able to do that is to understand how social media works, is to understand how human psychology works. And through these methods that I've learned and failed in, and when I say fail, I really just mean the lack of knowledge in those fields, I can do a better job in being a doctor and a social media leader. What platforms do you find are most successful for you to get your message across? Initially, when I did my social media journey, I started with Instagram because that was what was in front of me. And Instagram is sort of a platform that you can only use short form videos

and pictures to be successful. And it's very difficult to break down or simplify the nuance of a medical topic into a 10 second video into a picture. So my plan of action was to get people really interested in medicine by having them look at my Instagram pictures and then push them to YouTube, which is what I'm very passionate about now, because on YouTube, I can make longer form content that is still very enjoyable, relatable, fun, but we'll still educate them. Actually, we've coined a term for this called edutainment. And I'm very passionate about this form of education because the people that need health education the most and where it's most valuable is in the demographic between 18 to 24.

If I want to reduce heart disease in an individual from a lifestyle habit standpoint, that is the age I need to start making my influence known. And by making a YouTube video where I talk about why nutrition is important, why sleep is important, why exercise is important, that message should be reaching that demographic. And if I want to reach that demographic, I have to meet them where they are, speak in a way that is relatable and keep it fun. Because as much as I want to believe that all people want to learn about their health, I know that when you're 18, the last thing that's on your mind is, how do I have the lowest chance of having a heart attack later in life?

But if it's packaged with something within pop culture, and then they get a little bit of learning on the side, I know they're much more likely to listen. The medical profession is very staid and conservative, and you must have gotten some opposition from your colleagues. Like, you know, why are you going and talking about medicine on social media? People should be coming into my office and I should be examining them. So how do you deal with that criticism? That's very true. And I was met with a lot of resistance when I first started my social

platforms. I think that what I saw was an opportunity to reach a new demographic and there wasn't ever a playbook created. I wasn't following anyone's footsteps here because no one's ever done this. I do consider myself a trailblazer in this space. If you look at leading doctors in the media world right now, take Dr. Oz, for example, and you look at his YouTube presence, I outnumber a 10 to 1, and I'm a young doctor. I've only been practicing medicine out of residency for two years. So to the people that had their critiques, I heard them because they were valid critiques.

You need to keep your medical ethics as a first priority when you're going into media. And not all doctors do this. In fact, most doctors who are successful in media have at one point corrupted their medical ethics. So the concerns that people had of me entering the social media space were very valid. We need to make sure that doctors don't corrupt their information. But I was lucky here. The reason why I got my social media fame, at least the fuel to the fire that really stoked this, was I was named People Magazine's Sexiest Doctor Alive. And this is a funny honor to have.

But what that allowed me to do was to have a scandal. And the motto that I use for my education platform is come for the scandal, stay for the content. And if people viewed me as the scandal, if they viewed me as the entertaining portion, they were coming to see a quote unquote sexy doctor. They were coming in to see someone well-dressed who is a funny person, but yet isn't a professional space. I thought that could be the hook to get them to my channel, but then I can educate them on a much deeper topic without needing to corrupt that topic. Because nowadays, if you're on television, if you're in any sort of media

and you need to present medical information and you don't have a hook, you end up corrupting that medical information. You end up making claims like this is a miracle supplement. This is the miracle cure. And really that misguides my patients. And I see people suffer as a result of that. This is completely different from like a WebMD or web-based services where someone is coming in and seeking to interact with the doctor. This is you providing information about a particular medical advice or medical condition that's just consumed by a wide audience? I think what differentiates what I do from WebMD is that people really like to get information

from a familiar face. In fact, this is something I've written about for the American Academy of Family Physicians about how celebrity advice can get quite dangerous if they don't have a medical background. Very commonly, with good intentions, celebrities will go through a medical condition and they'll make a statement that they're very passionate about because it's affected them. And that statement doesn't have full medical validity

or it doesn't apply to the generalized population. And they'll mislead a lot of people as a result of this. The reason why this happens is because if you look at human psychology, folks will trust a familiar face much more than they do a stranger. So as much as I want to spend hours with a patient in my exam room, there's only about 15 minutes of interaction that happens. So who are they more likely to listen to, myself or the figure that they spend hours watching on television day in and day out with their families? So I took that model that marketers use usually to sell products, but I use that model to now sell the product of good health and quality evidence-based medicine. And I said, now that these folks know me from

social media, I'm going to drive a message home that we need to do better as society. Our healthcare system is broken. There are changes that need to be made. There's information that we think we know, but we need to correct because it's a myth. And that happens quite often. Now, if I'm able to do that in a fun, relatable, easy to understand way, I think I'm doing my job as a family medicine doctor. You're sort of ahead of your time because, you know, we do live in an age of celebrity where people become very famous very quickly for different reasons because of how they look or because of a talent that they have. But you're using it for good, which some celebrities come around to and champion a cause. But it seems like you started with the cause and then celebrity became part of that. So no doubt with 300 billion people on social media, which is a huge new phenomenon in our

lives, there's definitely an impact that doctors can have on their patients through social media. Let's talk a little bit about what you talk about. And specifically now you're here at MIT, the Ruderman Family Foundation through its LEAD20 program, which is a group made up of people with and without disabilities advocating for disability rights and promoting social justice in our digital age. Let's talk about disabilities. And what have you talked about regarding people with disabilities and getting adequate medical treatment? Because I know that that is a huge issue in the disability community. Yeah, I think you're absolutely right in that there's 3 billion people on social media and they're influencing everything from elections to business strategies.

And I think health professionals really need to listen to that because I think it's the absence of quality physicians on social media that's allowed so much misinformation to propagate. Talking about vaccines and all these myths that are associated with it that are causing folks to miss out on really important vaccinations that are going to save their children's lives. And I think that within the disabled community and those who suffer with disabilities or prosper with disabilities, they're a group of individuals who really can use social media to benefit and champion the idea of training for physicians in this field. The reason I say that is because I myself lack training in this field. For example, I don't have a lot of experience treating those with disabilities. I don't have a patient population

that has disabilities. In my medical school training, we had actors and actresses who are simulated patients to help us learn how to give a proper prostate exam or a gynecological exam. What we didn't have is to have a person come in with a wheelchair or someone who's blind or deaf or having autism to help us understand what etiquette should we follow? How should we be approaching these individuals? How can we do better as physicians so that we do come with a more welcoming stance? It's great that we may have physical accessibility, and even though if you look at the medical space, we don't even do that well. But if we don't have the human accessibility portion, we're really failing our patients. So part of what I, after attending this conference, what I want to strive for and to get put out there into the world is doctors really should be more concerned about increasing access to community of people that not only need health care, but want health care, want to be advocates for change within health care.

And we're not doing it simply because we're uninformed. So something I can do on my social media platform by educating physicians on how to act, educate myself so I can lead by example, because leading by example is the best thing we can do. Modeling is the way humans learn. So what I began to do last week, for example, and it's going to be live at some point in the coming weeks. I interviewed a very popular YouTuber by the name of Molly Burke, and she is actually blind and she makes that a big part of her internet personality. When she was coming over to my studio to film, I did not know the best practices to make her feel comfortable. Should I be guiding her at the door? Should I not be guiding at all? And her guide dog and her caretaker or assistant will help her with that. I didn't know. So what I did was to educate myself. I would log

on to the American Academy of Family Physicians website and look at the great information that they have there. But unfortunately, that information is not dispersed widely. Most doctors are completely unaware of how to handle themselves in this situation. So I wanted to be, A, I learn what to do. B, I encourage my fellow doctors to pick up in this situation. So I want it to be, A, I learn what to do. B, I encourage my fellow doctors to pick up on this information. And then I put that information out there for the general public to know

so we all get better and become more inclusive. You're listening to All Inclusive with Jay Ruderman. You can learn more. View the show notes and transcripts at rudermanfoundation.org slash allinclusive. Please remember to subscribe, rate, and review us wherever you are listening. I think your service, what you're doing,

could be hugely impactful for people with disabilities. I mean, we're talking about a population that is largely segregated, transportation, the ability to access medical treatment is a huge issue. I just came across the fact that the majority of people who are in a wheelchair when they're examined by a doctor are not examined below the waist. So they could be developing a medical condition that's not even looked at, there's a huge service that you could play in terms of getting the proper information out there so people can get treatment and preventative treatment before they develop these conditions. I think that that's a huge thing that you could do. I agree. I think that there's really two parts to that situation. First being that we're afraid of what we don't know. So

doctors that aren't doing the exams properly may not have been educated afraid of what we don't know. So doctors that aren't doing the exams properly may not have been educated in this. They don't know what to do. And myself, as a person who has the ability and the reach on my social media platforms, as well as my speaking engagements within the medical community, I can use this opportunity to give that education to improve these outcomes. Now, because I'm not part of a research institution, I won't be able to track how well I'm doing or how much I'm improving. The goal at the end of the day is if I give the education and people are listening, change will happen naturally because humans want to do better. Humans want to cooperate. People often refer to the Lord of the flies myth that if people are left on an island, kids are left on an island, they're more likely to fight and become bad and evil. I disagree with that notion. I think when

left to their own will, humans will more likely cooperate than compete. And I hope by lending this education out there, putting the education out there, giving the resources to physicians, we're going to see major change. So now that you've had a great deal of success, are others copying you? Are there other doctors who are now saying, yeah, you know, this is the way to reach and treat many more people than I'm able to do in my office? Since I've started my platforms, what I've seen is not only doctors pick up and one-to-one copy what I'm doing in terms of the type of posts that I put out, naming their usernames identically to mine. I also see hospital systems doing exactly what

I've been doing. The type of information I've been putting out, why doctors need to be on social media, why the absence is harmful to our patients. Mayo Clinic started a social media institute. There's new positions being created for physicians where they're the chief social media officers of their hospitals. Like in Cleveland Clinic, they have that. And I'm proud of that. I don't take credit for it. Maybe I played a role in that revolution. But it makes me happy to see that physicians are engaging with a new technology.

And instead of just vilifying it, because it's very easy to vilify and say, oh, this is going to rot our brains. This is the reason for the uptick in anxiety. It may be. There may be problems with it. But instead of vilifying it, we focus on what it does well. It reaches billions of people. People are constantly surrounded by this type of information. There's a lot of bad information out there. And we focus on that, target what it does well, and embrace it. And I'm so happy to see that not only doctors, but full institutions

are making use of social media. So how do you decide when you're doing a broadcast? How do you decide? There's so many topics that you could cover. How do you make the decision on what to talk about? It's a difficult condition for me to consistently make quality content because I don't have a full team around me. Most people, when they look at the scale of what I'm doing, they assume that there's a major team behind this, writers, producers, directors. It's myself

and my videographer slash editor, two people making 150 videos within the last two years, consistently posting at the times we promised to deliver the content, well-edited, well-researched, no medical misinformation in there. And it's tough because I want to not only deliver quality content, but at the same time, I want to grow because when I grow, it yields success to the message that I'm putting out there. For example, one of my biggest drivers in the success of my YouTube channel this year was the fact that I started doing a critique or review of popular medical dramas like Grey's Anatomy and House. Most people would look at that, at least most professionals, and say, well, that's not really useful to the community. Well, I disagree

on two fronts. First, I'm educating the average person that's watching those shows what's true, what's not, maybe even defining some of the terms that are in these shows. But the second benefit of this that's lesser known is that when 16 million people watch my video on Grey's Anatomy, a big percentage of those people then go watch my video on diversity. They watch my video about the nursing field and how we need to support our nurses better. So when I make my videos, I think, A, which of these videos are pop culture videos that we can do a little bit of learning and lure people in? And then where are my hard-hitting videos of where I want to see change in society? And that happens all the time. Sometimes it's prompted by current events. A senator says

something questionable that's causing a lot of outrage. I'll jump right on top of that story, share both sides, share where we can come together and make a consensus, because that's what it's about. It's not about vilifying or villainizing people, because at the end of the day, that's going to be hurtful to our message. It's about bringing people together and educating. Well, I do think you have to take advantage of opportunities, and there's so much being discussed on a daily basis about medical treatment. While I have you here in the studio today, I just want to ask you, because there's a big controversy, which I'm sure you've thought about and gotten into, about vaccination, people not

wanting to vaccinate their children and leading to an outbreak of diseases that were virtually eradicated. Have you talked about that? And how do you see this? This is a topic I'm incredibly passionate on, probably most passionate on. I am a family medicine doctor. So giving vaccinations and preventing illness is a huge part of my practice and something I'm most proud of because I feel if we can prevent the problem, it's much more effective than treating the problem when it's already come to fruition. What I want people to take out from this vaccine conversation is not that there's people that are less smart, people that are uneducated, people that believe in conspiracy theories are bad. It's not about labels. It's about

misinformation propagating to those who may be less fortunate and don't have the type of information that will guide them to make the right choice. People that have been misled by someone. So by labeling these people bad or evil, you're essentially putting a stone in between you. And that then makes it difficult for doctors like myself who are passionate advocates for vaccination from having that message hit home. What I do when I have a patient in my practice that is not believing in the power of vaccinations or believing in the side effects being much higher than they are from vaccinations, I listen first. And that's not common. Most doctors are quick to throw out data, to be very firm, authoritative, because they think if they take this powerful stance,

that's going to help convince this person sitting in front of them to get this vaccination. That is untrue. We have to lead with empathy. We have to lead with compassion and listening first, because unless you know why this person is hesitant to get a vaccination or give their child a vaccination, you can't properly structure your argument. And when you structure your argument, it doesn't mean you have to stand up even more loudly for what you believe in. It means you have to find an area of common ground first. So you have to agree that measles is a deadly disease, that both you and I are looking out in the best interest of your child. And now when you have two issues you've agreed upon, it's much more likely that this person will connect with you and essentially like you.

And when they like you and connect with you, they're more likely to listen to your message. So I think compassion, empathy is what more doctors need to be doing. As a parent with younger children, there's something that I've noticed, which I think is a growing issue in our society. Medically, children becoming more sedentary because of devices and phones and iPads and so forth and games. And at the same time, snacking on foods that are very unhealthy. Potato chips and cookies and candy. And have you talked about this, about like sort of this outbreak of kids becoming less healthy, less active, gaining more weight? What's your thoughts on that? Obesity is an epidemic in this country and it's starting to spread to the rest of the world. Unless we fix that problem within our children, it's going to

continue and get worse. The idea of focusing on why children are sedentary, focusing on what's leading them to make unhealthy food choices, that is my job and my focus. So when I talk to a parent and asking them, what is the issue? Why is your child not eating a healthier dinner? And I hear that finances are a barrier, that health food stores don't exist in their neighborhoods. That's when I get involved. I start talking to my social work team in my hospital, work with commercial partners to figure out how can we increase access to healthy foods in this area? How can we lower the cost for health foods in this area? Because the way that our health system works in this country is very fee-for-service based.

This doctor did this procedure, they will get paid X. Instead of really focusing on how can we spend money to prevent problems in the future and lower our spending and improve our outcomes later down the line, we're not really a forward-thinking healthcare system. And the way that we do this, the way that I think that we'll have more success is by focusing more on primary care. Right now, we have a specialist-led system, and that's partially why our hospitals and healthcare system cost so much in comparison to other countries. We need to focus how can a primary care doctor help a person teach their children to A, spend less screen time, B, exercise more and become more mobile, and then C, eat quality foods that's going to give them quality nutrition and help them feel full and not rely on just eating cookies.

Now, this happens in many ways, but one of the ways that I approach it in my social media and in my visits with my patients is through education. The first thing I tell parents in a room is, if you don't have it in your cupboards, your children will not eat it. So I encourage parents to not purchase these foods because that's such an easy way to eliminate these unhealthy foods that children are often over-consuming. Because if you eat Oreos, for example,

but you can eat a ton of Oreos and not feel full, and you've already upped your calorie intake by a thousand calories. So I tell parents, get that out of your cupboards. Take initiative here. And then when it comes to children, if you decrease screen time, you're automatically increasing mobility and movement. And I am proud that I see some politicians get involved in this space. Michelle Obama is one of the leaders of the Play 60 organization that encourage kids to spend an hour playing.

And I love that. I love when kids are active. They're socializing with other children because at that point they have face-to-face interaction. And that's where the biggest maturity happens. That's when you become a good human. I think what with the major changes with social media is that when you say something negative to somebody else, you don't get that human feedback that tells you that person is upset. As opposed to in real life, if a child is bothering someone and they push them and they see tears, there's a natural human drive to stray away from that and avoid those types of behaviors. So if we can get kids off of looking at screens for at least a good portion of the day, our recommendation is to limit to two hours a day. They're not only going to be better adults because they're going to be more acclimated to interacting with other people,

but they're also going to be more mobile. So they're going to burn more calories throughout the day as well. Totally agree with you. Huge challenge as a parent. I really want to thank you for your leadership and for being an entrepreneur and thinking of a new way to move medicine forward, because I think you're going to serve many, many people through what you're doing. We know that 20% of the population has some form of a disability, that they are the largest and poorest part of our population and routinely receive the least health care. I'm hoping, you know, after attending the course at MIT that you'll focus on people with disabilities and helping them and really getting them the information that they're going to need to lead healthier lives.

Dr. Fischofsky, I want to thank you for joining me today. You've built a strong social media platform, and through that, you're shattering stigma and will lead to change, and I know you'll make our society better. So thank you. Thank you so much for the opportunity, and I look forward to meeting that challenge and improving access and quality of care. Thank you. All Inclusive is a production of the Ruderman Family Foundation. Our key mission is the full inclusion of people with disabilities in all aspects of society. You can find All Inclusive on Apple Podcasts, Google Play, Spotify, and Stitcher. To view the show notes, transcripts, or to learn more, go to rudermanfoundation.org

slash allinclusive. Have an idea for a podcast? Be sure to tweet at Jay Ruderman. Thank you.