All About Change - The Tragic Toll of Cyberbullying

Episode Date: July 19, 2021

Bullying is a widespread and serious problem that has become amplified over the last decade with the growth of digital technology. After Jane Clementi’s son, Tyler, ended his life due to a cruel cyberbullying incident, Jane and her husband established the Tyler Clementi Foundation to prevent bullying online and offline through education and inclusion. Listen to learn more about Jane's mission to protect vulnerable populations from the consequences of bullying.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

It's all about having conversations and we have to be proactive and have those conversations before things spiral out of control. All Inclusive, a podcast on inclusion, innovation, and social justice with Jay Ruderman. Hi, I'm Jay Ruderman and this is All Inclusive, a podcast focused on inclusion, innovation, and social justice. Jane Clemente was married to Joseph Clemente and a loving mother of three children. On September 22, 2010, her life changed forever when her son, Tyler Clemente, died by suicide at the age of 18 after being the target of bullying. From this tragedy, Jane co-founded the Tyler Clemente Foundation along with her husband to raise awareness to end bullying and prevent anyone else from going through this. Jane, welcome to All Inclusive. Thank you. It's a pleasure to be here.

this. Jane, welcome to All Inclusive. Thank you. It's a pleasure to be here. So Jane, I'm wondering if you could tell us what life was like in your household before Tyler's untimely death. How did he grow up and what type of household did you have? For me, I didn't think that there was anything out of the ordinary about our household. We had a nucleus family of my husband, Joe, myself, and our three sons, our Jake, Tyler being the youngest, and then two older siblings. Did I thought what was very normal activities, the boys went to school, they had extracurricular activities. Each of them had very different interests and passions. And I just thought that that enriched my life completely with their interests. Now, I know that you're a religious

person. I'm wondering what role religion played in your life before Tyler's passing. Before Tyler's passing, I was a spiritual person. Religion was important to me. I definitely did take my children to a very conservative faith community, a Christian faith community. And it wasn't until after Tyler's passing that I realized that some of those messages that Tyler was hearing in that conservative evangelical church were very harmful for Tyler and that added to his struggles

for sure. And it was something that I didn't necessarily even see at the time. Many of the messages were very subtle and very short and not even something that I even heard. And many of the messages were even shared with Tyler in youth group and in Sunday school that he was attending apart from me. So I wasn't even aware of the full dynamics of all of the teachings at that church, which really shocks me now and wants me to wake up and wants me to share that part with other parents, to really be aware of what the faith community that you're bringing your children to, what they embrace and what they support, and making sure that you hear positive, affirming messages always.

So when did Tyler come out to you and to the family as gay? And did he come out just to you as his mother? Or did he come out to his siblings and his father? And what was the reaction of the family when he came out? So Tyler came out to me just, I don't know, about 36 hours before he left for college. So it was a short time span. I was really shocked and surprised that he was coming out, which is an interesting foolishness on my part, I suppose, because I had been waiting for many years for my older son to come out. But when Tyler came out, I was blown away. I was surprised. I was shocked. I really didn't know what to do with that conversation. Even though I shared how much I loved him in that moment, I know there was something inside me that I was struggling with and I didn't even know how to even verbalize it. And I think Tyler embraced that or

absorbed that as a negative comment. Even though I was telling him how much I loved him, I knew that there was something I had to deal with and I had to come to terms with. He told me, and I wanted him to share it with others. And he said, well, if you want to go ahead. And I didn't think it was my place to do that. Although I did share it with my husband, Joe, at the time. And he and Tyler had a conversation the next morning. But to me, to my knowledge, that was all he had come out to. After the fact, after Tyler's death, I found out my older son and he had come out to each other during the summer in July, before he went to school in September. And my middle son never knew until after Tyler had passed. So it was a process he was just

embarking on of coming out and truly embracing who he was. But he had just really started that. He had come out to a few people at college at Rutgers. He met some people on the floor, on the dorm floor, and he had got started going to some of their LGBT support groups, groups that they had on campus, sort of like Gay Street Alliances. And he did start that process, but he had not come out to many people at school either. And I think one or two friends from high school, and that's probably all. Do you think he was excited to go off to college? I do. I do. He was very excited to be off to school and his siblings concur with that.

I think he was excited for some freedom. I think he was thinking he was going to be embraced in a much more inclusive space. But as we learned, you know, being in that transitional time is also a highly risking time. It's a high risk time being in transition, not having the support of family and friends that you have had around you day to day to really see and know you and can see your emotions that you're sharing, as well as the fact that people don't embrace the culture of the larger school right away. I mean, they bring with them their own biases that they've been exposed to in their previous location, their high school, their home, their friends that they had been with.

So let me bring you back to a difficult time, the date of September 22nd, 2010. I know this must be incredibly difficult for you to discuss even after so much time has passed, but can you tell us what happened that day? You know, I'm not even clear, even all these years later, what happened. And things got pieced together slowly after the fact. From what I had

learned is that Tyler's roommate set up a camera on his computer to livestream Tyler in a sexual encounter earlier a couple days before and then a second time the day before and as Tyler continued to read the jokes that were posted about him, I do think Tyler's reality became very twisted and distorted. And I do think in my heart that Tyler was targeted by his roommate because of Tyler's sexual orientation. But I don't think that Tyler's roommate gave much thought to how much it would cost

another human being, you know, the great expense of, um, letting, um, embarrassing and humiliating someone in front of his new peers. Um, and I don't even know why to this day, why he would have done such a thing. Maybe it was to make himself more cool or more popular or, you know, just maybe to humiliate someone else. I'm not really sure. But it's one thing was clear is that he didn't give much thought, I don't think, to how much Tyler's reality would become twisted and distorted in those moments. And how Tyler would lose sight of just how special and precious he was. and how Tyler would lose sight of just how special and precious he was.

Because in that loneliness and isolation and shame, Tyler made a terrible decision. He made a decision that Joe and I can never change or undo. Tyler made a permanent decision to a temporary situation. On September 22, 2010, Tyler died by suicide. Tyler was 18 years old at the time. Jane, did you have a chance to speak to Tyler either that day when he died by suicide or shortly before? I did, actually.

We were making plans to go for family weekend, parents weekend, family weekend was that coming Saturday. And so we had a really long conversation that morning on the 22nd. It was funny because we had had several calls in between. He'd only been at school for about three weeks at this point. But every time I called, he was either on a bus, or he was just entering a class, or he was going about doing something or in the dining hall, and there was a lot of noise in the background. So this time, that Wednesday morning, I actually texted and said, when you get a break, we need to make plans, so give me a call.

And he did. And so we talked for about 30 minutes, I think, on that day. 30 minutes, I think, on that day. And we talked about the weekend, making plans, what to bring, what foods he wanted, what, you know, cases of water he wanted, all the things that college students want, you know, or need or think they need. And we even talked about he had a bicycle that he really liked. He had saved a lot of money. It was a very expensive bicycle that he had just started taking some really long road trips with. And he wasn't sure when we moved him in if he wanted to bring it or not. And we talked a lot about that. We talked about how he had just gotten placed in the upper graduate school orchestra.

All incoming freshmen are accepted into the orchestra, the undergraduate orchestra, but you audition for a seat in the orchestra. And instead of getting a chair in the undergraduate orchestra, he was accepted into the graduate school of music orchestra, which speaks to his gifts of being a wonderful musician and violinist. And he also told me about, you know, getting because he got that placement, he would get lessons by a graduate student and how excited he was. And those plans and excitement really confused me after the fact. But some people that work in suicide prevention shared with me that sometimes it's like a decision you've made and then you just put it in the back of your mind and you just continue making plans and then you just enact your decision and i i had a hard time understanding that um i guess it's just something i need to come to accept so i i and and i understand i've saw i've seen some videos of tyler um you know playing the violin and he was incredibly talented. As someone who has

four teenagers and we're always concerned about their mental health and what they're thinking about, I guess what you're saying is often when young people or anyone for that matter is considering taking their life by suicide suicide there's often no tip off when you speak to them or in the run-up um yeah there's no signs what you're saying that that that would lead you to believe that this was going to happen right i mean and sometimes there are obviously but i don't i think it's a false notion to think that there are signs all the time. And maybe it was just, you know, Tyler's mannerism. He was a very determined young man, and that's a great attribute to have,

except when it's twisted and used against you for self-harm. He was also someone who was very self-reliant and would think that he could work his way out of any situation or problem. Again, a great attribute unless you get in over your head and you need professional help. And I am a proponent of professional help. And some people just, he learned to hide himself. He had learned how to hide his sexual orientation and maybe even his mental health status. And he was really good at that. So maybe, again, something that might be to someone's attribute, but when it's twisted and turned internally for self-harm, it's not a good attribute. And some people do have exhibit signs.

I know after Tyler's death, I was extremely depressed. And if someone probably looked at me, they probably would have noticed that clearly. But Tyler did not exhibit any signs. Jane, the same month that Tyler took his life, four other American teenagers committed suicide after being taunted about their sexuality. I know that research shows that cyberbullying emerges most commonly from relationship problems, envy, intolerance for disability, religion, and gender, and ganging up to feel excluded from a team.

and ganging up to feel excluded from a team. I know that victims suffer long-term effects from anxiety, depression, and physical harassment and humiliation. When did you decide to start the Tyler Comente Foundation? We had great media publicity around Tyler's death at the time, as well as around the trial. And I was in a fog at that point and not really observing that media attention, but it was brought up to us by many of our close friends and friends of Joe's that we should harness that attention and start a foundation. At the time, I had no desire to do that. I had no ability to

even think outside of the pain that I was experiencing. But I just had this inner calling to say, yes, okay, fine. You want to start a foundation, go ahead. It was not my thought. But as time passed, I could see that Tyler's death, as well as the death of those other teens at that time, did start a great conversation. And it also pushed a movement of people coming out publicly and making their sexual orientation known, because I think it's really important to have visibility. I think you would probably agree with that. The more we see people that are different than us and interact with people who are different from us, we realize that we're all the same. We all want to feel included. We all want to feel liked. We all want to be part of the group, or most of us.

There are some that are more reclusive, but I think it's a common trait. And so as Tyler's story gained momentum, I definitely could see that this was a good thing that we definitely needed to use Tyler's story to make change, to create online safe experiences for all people, but especially those marginalized. And Tyler was part of a marginalized group being part of the LGBTQ community. So we do have a small definite affinity for that community, but, and a huge support and love poured out from to us from that community. But we really want to create safe online experiences and offline experiences for everyone, all marginalized people. And certainly, you named a few of the most high risk groups, those that are different, marginalized, because

of they're not part of the majority, or a people with disabilities who are different. You know, it's that fear of difference, I think that most most people react to and want to humiliate those people so that in that distorted mind of the aggressor, they can rise up above someone else. It's that difference that people usually often target. So, Jane, now we're more than 10 years since Tyler's passing. Now we're more than 10 years since Tyler's passing. Do you think things have changed in terms of acceptance in the United States of the LBGTQ community? I think there has definitely been a forward movement, a positive movement with marriage equality has certainly made a big positive impact.

But I do think we have much more work to do. I mean, just recently, the Supreme Court ruled in favor of Philadelphia using a religious organization to place their foster children and adoption services, and that religious organization will not place a child with a kind, loving, same-sex family, couple. And that's horrific in my eyes, of course. And that's why we still need work. We still need to pass the Equality Act and make sure that there is not a lot of loopholes for faith-based organizations. So there is much more work to be done. And we are getting out of a period where, as a nonprofit organization, I am not a political organization at all, and I don't promote any party or person, but we had someone on our little screen in our

home, on our TV, coming in and humiliating people all the time. And youth are smart, and they watch people of leadership humiliate and target and make fun of others that are different. And that's just not acceptable. And that research showed had an impact that increased bullying in school-age youth as well you know i want to talk about two issues one one is is religion because we talked about how some religious teachings can sometimes have a negative impact but i know that you've had some positive impact in terms of the religious community and having bishops in the United States sign on to a letter to address bullying against the LBGTQ community. Can you talk a little bit about that? Yes. Faith is a strong component and resource

for people. It helped me get through my darkest time for sure. But there is definitely still more work that needs to be done. And we have a program called True Faith Doesn't Bully because we believe that if you have true faith, you're not going to use your faith against someone else to harm them. And we have two big initiatives happening. We have letters of affirmation, which are letters of people who came out of the Southern Baptist Conference sharing the harms that those teachings have caused. And now we are working with Father James Martin with the Roman Catholic Church as well. And we created a statement, as you said, God is on my side, a statement for bishops to sign on to condemning LGBTQ bullying. And we have had a great deal of support, sadly, not from the bishops.

We've had only 14 bishops sign on and three of those have been retired bishops. But what we didn't think was going to happen is that there has been an organic, you know, embracing of this statement by many religious orders within the Catholic faith, as well as individual parishes have now signed on, organizations, including major hospital systems that are in multiple states with, you know, hundreds of healthcare facilities under them, as well as some of the colleges and universities and some smaller schools that have signed on. To date, we've had out of those over 100, and I think it's about 45 or 50, who have organizations like that who have signed on, which have hundreds of people under them, which we think is a great testament to say to these bishops and hierarchy of the Catholic Church, it's time to change your

teaching. We need to teach that being LGBTQ is not an abomination, it's not a sin. And that's what our goal is, to change the teaching so that we can embrace the LGBTQ community. You know, it's interesting, within the past couple days, United States Secretary of State Blinken just met with the Pope in the Vatican. And I'm just now, based on this conversation, wondering if this is an issue that was brought up in front of the Pope about having some leadership coming from the Church in terms of accepting people from different walks of life. I don't know, but it would be nice if that was part of the conversation. And I don't know if it was part of that conversation, but I do know there was an outreach conference on Saturday led by Father James Martin. And he received a handwritten note from the Pope blessing his work and his ministry and to continue to shed God's love to all God's children, as the Pope had said. So there was a very positive comment out of the Pope.

Although out of the conference of bishops, out of the Vatican Council of Bishops, there were some very negative comments earlier this month about blessing same-sex couples. And that maybe gave the pushback and maybe gave the Pope a place to say, no, we have to share God's love. But it's interesting that there is this, you know, push and shove within this one denomination for sure.

And there are still many conservative Christian as well as Jewish faith communities that are not um welcoming or that want to change like i know in new jersey there was a large conversion therapy organization that was shut down a few years ago called jonah um which was supported by the ultra orthodox communities in brooklyn that would send their sons there to convert them, to convert their homosexual yearnings, try to change them, which we know through science that you cannot change a person's sexual orientation. It's an intrinsic trait that you're born with.

an intrinsic trait that you're born with. Right. I thought that the conversion therapy movement was pretty much debunked. But I guess, you know, there's remnants of it. They close down one and another one opens up. I just went to a Tribeca Film Festival of the premiere of a movie called Pray Away. That movie is mostly based on Exodus International, the ex-Exodus International, which has been closed. But you know what that movie

shows is that they closed down Exodus and a new movement of Freedom March or something to that name has been opened up. So it's like like until we get to the root cause until we change the teachings and traditions and get rid of the dogma someone will recreate horrific actions like conversion therapy which cause youth or even if you're even older to go to conversion therapy have like an eight times more likely chance of suicide or suicidal ideation and increased self-harming behavior and it's it's just teaching that self loathe and hate internal hate that's just horrific for most people so i want to talk to you a little bit about social media um because i i think the feeling with the people that created social media was that it was

a positive influence for society and and was going to bring all sorts of people together and obviously we've seen some terribly negative impacts of social media um on our children, on many different people in society, people using social media to hurt other people or to debase them or to put them down. I'm just wondering, having gone through what you've gone through and for the past 11 years been involved in this issue, what are your thoughts on social media? I believe that it is a tool and mechanism for good. And I do think it's only as good as the people who use it. And we need to make sure we teach everyone to use it wisely and for that good that it was intended. But there are certain significant differences when bullying occurs in the digital world because of the anonymity that some platforms provide, because things can go viral and be seen by so many people, or even in your own mind,

you think it's worse than it is, as I think might have happened with Tyler, but also because you can't escape it. You know, Tyler had taken screenshots of the words and the jokes that they were commenting on. And he kept going back to that because that was that trial. They did forensically look at Tyler's laptop. This was in a time when you didn't even have a smartphone. It was just on the laptop. And even that, his reality spiraled so quickly out of control. So I think it's all about being mindful of using the digital world for good. And it's even sometimes it's about slowing down. And I always like to say, before you hit that send button, just take a minute, take a breath, reread what you've written. And if you think there's any way that your comment can be misunderstood or your comment destroys someone, I would really encourage them to rewrite it and maybe even discard it altogether.

really encourage them to rewrite it and maybe even discard it altogether. And if that comment or statement builds someone up and encourages them, then I say push that send button and send out positivity and goodness into the world. How significant do you think this social pandemic of bullying is out there? And I would also ask you, what advice would you give to parents to be aware of cyberbullying and how to discuss it with their children to make them aware of what's out there? I do think it's all about having conversations and we have to be proactive and have those conversations before things spiral out of control, for sure. I think it's important for parents to have conversations around what can be done if their child experiences

some kind of harmful messaging. Because with what research has shown, it's not so much if your child's going to be cyber bullied, but when, because most statistics show that almost 60% of youth have been cyber bullied already. So we need to make sure that we know the precautions, you know what to do. The really sad research that I've come up with is that 70% of youth who have been cyber bullied will not tell their parents about the situation. And most will state that it's because they're afraid of losing their device and their connection to the outside world. So having those conversations beforehand sets the tone, making sure your child knows, no, I'm not going to take the device. It's not the device

that's the problem. You might have to get out of the app that they're sending you these messages in or block the person from text messaging because you don't want to keep seeing those messages, but you do want to stay connected to the world. And in this day and age, this is the way to stay connected is through the device. So you want to save evidence. You want to shut down that person that's harming you. And you want to have conversations with someone. You need to have help. You need to talk to an adult.

You need to talk to your parents. You need to talk to a teacher at school, especially if you know that the aggressor is coming from your peers at your school. At least in New Jersey, the one recent Supreme Court ruling did state that if bullying is happening on the device and it's impacting your time at school, the school can intervene to try to create a safe environment online for you. So it's really important for that to happen. So this is my next question about schools. What can schools do? I know, for example, my daughter, who's in high school, that her school is very proactive at looking at social media, which I know is controversial in terms of privacy, but social media is out there in public. And if they see

bullying, they take it up. They make sure this issue is handled within the school, even if the bullying happens outside of the school. So I'm just, what do you think schools across our country can be doing better to crack down on cyberbullying? I mean, I definitely think they should be monitoring it and looking through the social media of the youth. And certainly if a student brings it to them or parents bring it to their attention, that they need to address it and start having conversations and dialogue. I'm not about having punitive laws that say three strikes and you're out, because I think that just makes that aggressor someone else's problem. I think it's all about behavior modification, social emotional learning,

all about behavior modification, social-emotional learning, setting the tone, setting the boundaries, so to speak. That's one of our programs that we have. We have our day one program. It's all about setting a boundary from the very first day. It's about telling the classroom or the entire school, the principal or teacher, that everyone is accepted here. Everyone is valued. This is what our school is all about, inclusion and welcoming everyone. And no one will be allowed to target someone else because of what makes them different, because of their skin color, because of their sexual orientation, because of the language they speak at home or their body shape or their abilities or their lack of abilities everyone is welcome here and I just think it's really important to set that tone and to be upfront about it and it's not a magic wand but at least it

sets the boundaries and then when someone crosses it and uses a racial slur or a homophobic slur or or any other derogatory words or target someone you can you have a basis to remember, we all agreed on the first day that's not acceptable behavior. Let's reel this in and let's address the situation. If you're having a disagreement with this person, let's talk about the disagreement. Talk about what the problem is. Don't humiliate someone else.

I think that's an important boundary for the aggressor to have, but it's also an important message for the marginalized person to hear that they're going to be safe and welcomed in this space. Are there other programs that the foundation is promoting that you think are important? Well, our very first program that we designed, I think is that the key and heart of us. And that's our Upstander Pledge

because we saw that so many people saw what was happening to Tyler and they remain passive bystanders. And we want people to stand up and intervene. And we want people to be active upstanders. So we've created a pledge. It's not a one and done thing. It's every situation you enter into, you have to think about being that one that stands up and intervenes safely. We never, ever want anyone coming into

harm's way. But there are many ways to be an upstander. You can interrupt the situation by calling out bad behavior or just coming beside the person that's being targeted and walking them away, you know, to a different environment. Or just if they're all friends, just calling it out and saying, that's not funny. I don't know. That's not a joke. Let's be serious here and embrace everyone and embrace everyone's differences and be inclusive. Or if the behavior doesn't change or if you don't feel safe doing that, it's about reporting it, reporting it to an adult. We have to make sure youth know that it's not about tattletaling. It's not about outing someone. If you have someone's best interest at heart, you need to

report it. I've spoken at many high schools and afterwards, several youth have confided in me that they've even had suicidal ideations and many have confided in their best friend and told them, don't tell anyone, but these are my plans. And fortunately for these youth that have shared that with me, their friend did not honor that trust. They told someone and they got them the help they needed. We need to know what should be kept private. What is gossip and tattling might be who someone likes or what they're doing on a weekend if they didn't want anyone to know. That should be made silent and private. But things that shouldn't remain private

are self-harming behaviors or the idea that you're going to hurt someone else, that you've been hurt, so now you're going to hurt someone else. We have to know the difference and we have to teach our youth the difference. And the third most important thing about being an upstander is reaching out to the target,

making sure they know they're not alone, that they're not isolated, that they do have support here and you're there for them. You're their friend. And we think that that's really important. And being an upstander sometimes is bigger than just the bullying situation. It's about being an upstander by going to the voting polls. It's by being an upstander and maybe getting up and getting out of really religious, orthodox places, spaces, conservative churches like I was in. At the time, I was barely able to put words together in my shock and despair and grief. But I could get up and leave and not remain in that space. That to me is being an upstander too. So there's all sorts of levels to be upstanders. So if someone wants to get involved in the work of the foundation,

what's the best way to contact the organization and to get involved? the organization and to get involved? Sure. So reach out through our website. There's an outreach space where you can click to reach out to us. We're a proponent of sending out good messaging on social media. So we love people to share, reshare our posts and to go to our website, take our upstander pledge. We think that that's a great way.

And we, you will get emails from us weekly. Um, e-blast, uh, with what we're doing and what we're up to and how you can help, um, by signing our upstander pledge as well.

The website is? TylerClementi.org. Okay, great. So Jane, let me just end with you. How can we become a better society that does not have bullying? Is that an idealistic goal, or can we get there? I do believe we can get there. I do think it's about accepting differences, sharing, being more visible, having curriculum that shares stories. I do think stories are a great way to

transform people and to change hearts and minds, so to speak, because teaching empathy, you know, trying to see life through someone else's eyes and through their lived experiences is key. I mean, if you hear someone's story and you hear their struggles, it just breaks your heart and it helps you to extend compassion. And I think that that is what's really important with inclusive curriculums and using socially connected youth in schools to help change the school culture. That has been proven to be very effective.

So to get the buy-in of a few student leaders, and then it will spread and become an organic upshoot of a new welcoming space, of a space that's inclusive. If you can get the buy-in of the socially connected youth, that's very, very helpful. Well, Jane, thank you so much. I really appreciate this conversation. And it was a tough conversation, but it was so great having you as a guest on All Inclusive. And hopefully together, we can do our part to end bullying in our society. Thank you. I hope so.

All Inclusive is a production of the Ruderman Family Foundation. Our key mission is the full inclusion of people with disabilities in all aspects of society. You can find All Inclusive on Apple Podcasts, Google Play, Spotify, and Stitcher. To view the show notes, transcripts, or to learn more, go to rudermanfoundation.org slash allinclusive. Have an idea for a podcast? Be sure to tweet at Jay Ruderman.