All Fantasy Everything - Masterpieces (w/ Casey Ley and Louie Waymouth)

Episode Date: August 24, 2017

Pour yourself a goblet of brandy, crank up your gramophone and recline on an overstuffed leather fainting couch, because we're drafting masterpieces. Host Ian Karmel is joined by comedian Casey Ley and television writer/bon vivant Louie Waymouth to select things that can only be described as masterpieces.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

This is a HeadGum Podcast. Welcome to another brand new episode of All Fantasy Everything, the podcast that has the week off. So we're just sort of chilling, just really taking it easy this week. And while we have that week off, we look at the world and say, maybe we could fantasy draft some of this stuff. I am seated here. I'm keeping it it short keeping those intros short sweet you guys can talk even before i've introduced you right yeah i enjoyed your very upbeat the whole welcome thing yeah yeah i started in the podcast the exact same way i think every time since the beginning i think you should do that people want that they do they want continuity yeah they hear that little theme that sort of fun eight bit theme yep and then me saying welcome to another welcome welcome welcome i'm hoping at some point to be

sampled in a rap song yeah i can't see how that won't happen it's definitely gonna happen yeah it has to happen and again you just keep doing it the same way the same time people can't live without it they remember it that's when they need it in a rap song that's when they need in a rap song all of a sudden summer 2021 it's one of need it in a rap song. All of a sudden, summer 2021. It's one of the great welcomes I've ever had. Thank you very much. Yeah. And you.

And that's saying something. You consider you have been welcomed by many of the great figures. Of the history. Is this the 20 of just going all the way? But is this the 21st century? I'm a vampire. Yeah. Just going all the way. Is this the 21st century?

I'm a vampire. Yeah. I assume if you have a British accent, then you are some sort of time traveling doctor of some sort. Yeah. Yeah. You're doing. Hi. Yeah.

Doctor who, but more of a gastroenterologist. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Actual doctor. He's been studying Crohn's disease. One of my favorites. From the beginning.

There was different universes. There was. Different realities. What blocks you up? Yeah. studying Crohn's disease one of my favorite there was different universes there was different realities what blocks you up yeah in England called Viz magazine yeah

which was very funny but very crude and one of my favorite comics was a thing called Doctor Pooh Doctor Pooh and it's

and the tagline he's traveling he's traveling through space and time trying to find somewhere to have a big shit. So he's just looking for a private enough bathroom. Yeah. But then keeps getting held up by people.

Yeah. Exactly. It's amazing how many people are seeking that and have that issue. Yes. And just like in a world in which everything is out there we need people still need that privacy for that moment yeah yes yeah it's so important yeah i've i mean i've talked about this on the podcast before i have a starbucks in between portland and seattle that i know that i know is good single occupancy bathroom always clean that's great yeah something that I've noticed here in America in restrooms or lavatories.

Thank you for using our preferred term. Yeah. I've noticed that you have here is that a lot of your cubicles have these very large gaps. Gaps, yes. Which I don't know why. Down at the bottom, you mean? Or just in between. People could very easily see you. Yes. I don't know why the bottom you mean or just in between like like people could very easily

see you yes I don't know what what's going on even if they don't I don't know why they're not sealed I think why is that why in England they're usually sealed I think so yeah wherever I go there's large gaps yeah I know exactly what you're talking about and I I have one like theory on it that might be that I all of my theories are wrong. But one, I'm going to give them to you. One, I feel like in situations like those, people are worried about their kids. And so they were building in the ability to be able to see their kids. That's the good side.

The other side is people are creeps and they want to see things. And I was hearing recently that up until the 80s, all Chicago boy high school swim teams had to swim in the nude. Did any of you know that? So I just was thinking this. I don't know why I'm using this as an example. But it's because the power structure of this country is creeps. And they want to just see naked boys and girls at all times. Yeah.

I'm probably wrong. We had that when I was a kid. We called them prep schools. But that was from sort of 13 to to uh no yeah no it was 8 to 13 you were in middle school we had a pe teacher that uh made us swim in the nude yeah really yeah no yeah yeah i won't after football practice i wouldn't even shower because i didn't want to be naked around my coaches i didn't want to take my shirt off around my peers yeah when it was like skins and shirts like i was like i'd feel like this is some sort of aggression towards my body yeah yeah a little bit yeah i know i wanted to be naked as

as seldom as possible me too during those years are we am i is it me or are we about to draft pedophiles we're about to draft the world's greatest speaking of which is that what was that was happening yeah speaking of i was not prepared pedophiles louis weymouth on the podcast today uh god how to describe it you're you're a writer on the uh late late show indeed uh you were a a theater you ran a theater? I ran a, well, I did, what, before I came to? Yeah, before you came to the United States of America. I did. I started a theater company. A theater company in London.

For a while. Yeah, I trained as an actor before that. And then I was writing in England as well. One of the great, what would you, a flaneur? Flaneur. Flaneur for a while. Yeah, raconteur. Raconteur.

Bon viveur. Bon viveur. Gadfly. And shit. And an utter. Gadfly. And shit. And other shit. And a total bastard. Dude, flaneur is my favorite word. And I'm just sitting here being like, I love you guys for engaging back and forth in intelligent, witty dialogue.

Yes. Yes. Bandi and Agen revelry. Yeah. We'll just go. A huge chunk of our time will be just spent. Just sending big, fancy words to describe people back and forth. Back and forth.

Yeah. We're wasting CBS's money because we work together on that show. And we'll spend six hours a day just talking like that. The other voice you hear, Casey Lai. Hello. Stand-up comedian. Extraordinary. Casey W. Lai.

And that's L-E-Y. L-E-Y. On Twitter. No one ever gets it right. Would you say that over in your Anglo-Saxon speaking country? When you see L-E-Y, would you say lie or would you say lay? L-E-Y. L-E-Y, yeah.

I think I'd probably say lay. Lay, yeah. Only in Germany, I feel like, is the only time I've ever heard them say, anyone ever say my name correctly. Really? Lie. Is that a German name? It's a German name. Yeah.

I don't know too much of its history i just know i do know there is one famous nazi who is a real bad guy who has our last name so we haven't delved too deep to see if there's a connection yeah um but yeah i'm here in la baby yes in la spend some time with you last weekend we were just up in wine country oh dear it was lovely last this this most recent week and we were in healdsburg yep sonoma county sonoma county did a little show had it had a little evening and then the next day just flaneur our way through the city really nerd not once did you spit it out not once oh come on no no no no truth be told wine tasting you're only really getting like a drink and a half out of that. Yeah, it's not that much.

You don't really have to worry too much about that. It's a real shallow pour. But it's accumulative. Yeah. He was also good to us. We, the person, we just happened upon, shout out to Banshee Wineries. Yeah. We just happened upon their wine tasting room.

We went in there and both the people working there saw the show had seen the show the night before that we did the stand-up show right so it was like hey here's some almonds on the house oh god maybe maybe some maybe some extra pours of wine extra pours of wine you want the baba ganoush do you like your burnt eggplant yeah i gotta say i love baba ganoush baba ganoush is great. And then Pinot Country delivered. Yeah. Pinot for dinner. And you've come back none the wiser, haven't you?

Oh, none. Well. Do you think you have? I hold on to very little of that information. Yeah. Yeah. I would say of the, like, we went with David Borey as well. We're still basically judging wine by its label.

I think Borey probably, Borey's knowledge probably leaped the most ahead out of all of us because he he was just he was he was a sponge up there and was receiving everything that being said i haven't talked to him since we've gotten back so i don't know it may have all flown out of his head but he was just like swirling wine understanding like that he was like is this oxygen oxygen oxygenating you know why you swirl it yeah yes yes exactly even if it's all bullshit with wine by the way even if it is all bullshit i'm buying in i like the bullshit yeah certain things in life are bullshit but they're still pleasurable yeah and and pretending like even if swirling it doesn't

do that much even if decanting it doesn't whatever whatever whatever whatever i still fucking love it i feel fancy i do too i. Yes. Yes. Why do you got to stop playing make-believe as an adult? Yeah. I don't want to. That's not true. Right? That's true. They make us, but then you go to wine country is not a real place. I mean, it's like, it's real. They exist there, but like you go up there, it's like every piece of food

you put in your mouth is perfect. Yep. All of the wine is perfect. There's like a river just flowing through everything. There's a jacuzzi in the river. There's just everything. It's always just just everything's just perfect up there we walked into a town square and i swear to god there was an opera singer opera singing and then a second opera singer joined them yeah two opera singers just in a park yeah you know you don't fucking add it and that's just the tip of the iceberg that's just the yeah yeah the iceberg below it yeah opera singers all the way down opera singers all the way down drowning opera singers

the titanic voyage was mostly opera singers opera singers america had a that's why it was a tragedy tragedy yeah yeah we lost most of the opera singers because we had a shortage in america yes and we were we were, you know, it was boom times. We were importing opera singers. Yeah. Yeah. And most of them. Yeah. Drown in the Atlantic that night.

Astors and opera singers. It was a huge bummer. A loss to the cause. It would be bigger. It would be trap now. Opera music. If the Titanic had not happened, opera would be trap. Pavarotti was an iceberg.

He was an iceberg. Yeah. The revenge. Yeah. Slowly melting. Oprah would be trapped. Pavarotti was an iceberg. He was an iceberg. Yeah. The revenge. Yeah. Slowly melting. He didn't die. He just returned to the seas that birthed him. Yeah.

Yeah. Today we are drafting masterpieces. It's wide open. Yeah. I'm very excited for this. It's a vast ocean of a topic. It is a vast ocean of the topic, kind of which a pavarotti might emerge from quent frequent frequent yeah frequent don't know the word too many words

i was i hit flaneur and then i was like yeah we can have an intelligent i can i can follow this and then h1 beyond and i was like oh boy yeah what was some of the flaneur these are all we should introduce these words because our audience is mostly flaneurs yes so how would you define a flaneur i feel like a flaneur is a sort of i'm going to say bon viveur i feel like it's like a city wanderer i feel like yes but it's sort of i imagine him perhaps in a smoking jacket oh sure wafting about yes um seeking pleasure opium dens and you find and that's how you find i think he's an east feat sure um and probably um leads looking for pleasure wandering for pleasure what we would say in england the gift of the gap the gift of the gap which is uh someone very good talker. Good with words.

Yeah. Someone bouncing around seeking pleasure. Yeah. From different locations. It's how you find the best part of any city. I feel like he's just fluneering about. You're so into them. Yes. I feel like a sort of downscale Oscar Wilde.

There it is. I feel that's true. Although, why does he even have to be downscale? In my mind, it's just Oscar Wilde bopping around from male wh something house to male whorehouse puffing opium and eating egyptian cigarette yes whereas i think oscar wilde probably was not idle more active that's fair yeah a somerset mom character again not idle not idle oh yeah that's true yeah not seeking to create the next great masterpiece of any way just kind of more receiving the information of a place around you. We may not know any great flaneurs from history, but the great figures in history knew those flaneurs.

That's true. Yes. Flanery. Can you say a flanery? Flanerist? A flanerist. A flanerist. A flan.

A flan. A flan. A flan. Just a flanist a flannerist a flan a flan just a flan europeans masterpieces it could be anything are we even that was hard it's hard right it's almost too wide open do we even seek to define it or do we seek to define it through our pitch well i think we yes that yeah i think we seek to define it through our picks i i'm into that i did There was one like criteria that I was kind of like trying to keep in my mind. I don't know. I heard it in an interview one time. I want to say it was like Jeff Garlin talking about something. But it was the idea of like there's like there's smart and then there's like genius.

Yes. And it's the difference between like smart, smart people. Like everyone knows it's like it's it's reviewed really well the critics of it it's really good yeah like genius is something that melds all of it you know and like and so it can be liked by everyone it can be appreciated in some form but also perhaps not bettered and not better that's interesting yeah yeah that and that was like it was from like an artist perspective like taking it from like an artist perspective it was kind of their best piece but also then it became personal.

So you're at, you know what? It's not defined. It's hard to define. I mean, it is, it is generally interesting. It's generally thought of,

uh, sort of in the art world, isn't it? You think of it as sort of, you think of it in the art world. Yeah. Maybe something that sculptures or, or architecture maybe.

And then masterpieces sometimes aren't recognized until 20, 30 years later. Yeah. Something that summarized a time you know the it has to uh when it spurs i think but sort of uh but longevity sort of um enables that yeah and i think some of them are like are perceived as that some things will be perceived instantly as a masterpiece but it can like fade away over time um but i do think that there has to be uh it has it has to it has to kind of be a game changer a little bit kind of it has to move things forward that's yeah some of my choices aren't from art necessarily yes oh they're forward but you

could argue motion baby that's all we really need, I think, is forward motion. I have got a couple art ones on my list. We'll see, though. You can argue that a masterpiece could be a masterpiece of destruction. Oh, yeah. You really can. So she could drag things down. Yeah. Yeah, or deception.

The devil's greatest... Deception, yeah. You know, the devil's greatest trick was convincing us he was not real? Price is so-so. The devil's- Between the usual suspects. Oh, yeah. The devil's greatest trick

was convincing us that- He was Kevin Spacey. And the second one was he could pull a coin up from anyone's ear. He so- Yeah, and do this. He could do the thumb thing.

Yeah. And just like- He was just a devil. I mean, he was- He was a little devil. He was the original Chris Angel. Chris Fallen Angel is the devil you know chris age i would love if the devil was basically chris angel just a dumb just a jersey dude just on on the vegas strip making a ton of money for people in between dinner and getting fucked up at a fun bar right exactly are you familiar with chris angel no oh

my god he's our he's our rock and roll version of david blaine yeah but like shitty rock he's our hair metal he's the rock of ages uh he is to uh comedy i mean he is to magic what rock of ages is to musical right yes right yeah yeah got it, yeah. Got it. Awesome. Yeah. Super awesome. But I feel you've got to beat the crowning achievement of- Yeah, you're going to fuck your wife hard after Criss Angel and Rock of Ages. That's a double feature one night? Yeah.

You're getting pregnant. It's Sauvignon Blanc and Rock of Ages and then Criss Angel and then boom, game over, baby's made. The way we determine the draft order is with a rollicking game of rock, paper, scissors. Played between the two of you. It'll be on rock, paper, scissors, and then shoot is when you throw it. Whoever wins determines the

draft order. Alright? So now we play it right now. Here we go. Rock, paper, scissors, shoot! Scissors, scissors. Rock, paper, scissors, shoot! Scissors, scissors. Rock, paper, scissors rock paper scissors shoot rock oh casey wins which means casey gets to determine the draft order i will remind you and our listeners it is a serpentine draft which means if you go it goes one two three in the first round and then

three two one in the second round got it yeah got it you have the third pick you also have the fourth so i'm choosing three things well you're not choosing anything because you lost no that is round got it yeah got you the third pick you also have a fourth time choosing three things well you're not choosing anything cuz you like no that is that is correct you fucking lost yeah for everybody you did you casey's in a row yeah and I was convinced there's nothing about you that just says consistency yes okay you know the other day i was getting real serious with this too because i was like well what is a masterpiece it's kind of fun though what do i really and so i'm gonna start wait wait first tell us the order tell us the order first oh right i'm gonna go first

because i i gotta there's one that i just want to have to get out there this one you have to get i feel like it's the most going to be a popular choice out there for your listeners and for you guys the listeners love to weigh in. Then I'll go a little, then I'll go deeper. All right. I'm just going to start with- You first, and then- Oh, and then let's do, let's just keep it down this line.

Right down the middle. Ian, you're next. Louis, you're third. And then Lord Weymouth is third. And you'll send it back that way afterwards. Beautiful, which means you pick twice in a row. Right. You have the third and the fourth.

But starting us off with the inaugural pick, Casey Lai in the Masterpiece Draft. In the Masterpiece Draft, I'm going to go modern, and I'm going to go cinematic. Okay. And I think Quentin Tarantino's Pulp Fiction. Pulp Fiction. Is a masterpiece of cinema, of screenwriting, of acting.

It's just, it overall is is still like one of the great movies you see it as a kid when i saw it it was amazing because like you saw uma thurman get her chest pounded yeah with a needle you saw like there was a christopher walken being weird and creepy talking about having a watch up of it up his ass amazing and you're just a recept you're receiving all of that and it's really good and it's not till you watch it eight times more when you're older that you realize what that it's like nihilism and god and every like you just like the it it it takes many layers but from the get-go it's just an incredibly entertaining yeah cool yes movie that kind of defined you know like it it it it was a big step in a new direction for cinema in america

and you knew that from the like from the moment that the titles hit yeah with that in you know with that music which i'm not gonna pretend to do you don't want to you don't pretend to do it for us but you know yeah exactly yeah yeah yeah yeah i remember going to see it with my dad yeah and it was like you walked out and you were like what did i just watch it was and it was incredible it right and it was like a pivot point for for theater or for or for american like movies and everything like right huge i mean he'd done other work he'd done other stuff before yeah yeah reservoir was true romance before came out before that? Before that. Well, he didn't.

He wrote that. He wrote it. He wrote it. Tony Scott directed it. Yeah. Right. But it was still felt a little bit with two feet, like one foot still in the previous world. It was so exciting. It was.

It was so exciting. And I just remember my parents being shocked and hating it so much. And my mom, that was the year of Forrest Gump. And my mom was like, this is the best movie I have ever seen. Yes. Like Forrest Gump to her was the masterpiece. And so to like,

like, cause I was probably like 13 at the time to see like it, like, uh, such a clear shift. Cause at that point my parents were like, I like the Beatles. And I was like,

I like the Beatles too. Like, so I was like lining up and then I was like, Oh, we're all going to go to a Peter, Paul and Mary concert. That's a really wonderful way to spend an evening with my parents who I love so much. For sure.

You were still under their tutelage. I love their tutelage. And they taught me, my dad's got collection, like record, like Richie Havens, you know, like a lot of like folk stuff. He wasn't that cool, but he was cool. Cool enough. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Cool enough.

It was nothing to rebel against really yet. Exactly. Because he was like rebellion then my mom was like you know like sinatra like i love lucy stuff i can appreciate now but back then i thought she was super square and so like now it moved and i was like oh here's something that i love and i know why i love it because it's super exciting and it's way different from anything that they would like a breaking up that's so important to have something you can rebel against your parents with yeah even if it's just like a little thing. Violence and swearing.

Yes. Which that had in spades. Because you had cool parents. I had cool parents. Yeah. Louis. I saw it with my dad. Did your dad like it?

Yeah, he did. You have cool parents still. How did you rebel? Well, I was sent to some quite posh schools. Oh, yeah. So that was quite posh schools. Oh, yeah. So that was quite easy to- Well, Harrow, right? Harrow, exactly.

Why rebel when it's all- Well, so no, no. So that's very easy to rebel against. Totally, totally. Because it's all so stiff. Yeah. And I mean, so to be kind of punk at that kind of establishment is pretty easy. I mean,

and I was always into sort of, you know, creativity. So I was painting or acting or whatever. And, you know, I mean, you know,

the very fact we had to wear this very staid uniform and stuff. Was it a straw hat part of it? Yes, all of that. So, I mean, you know, like that's a lot of fun to rebel against.

I mean, you know, and, you know, and, and I, and, and, you know, drinking was very much part to rebel against i mean you know and you know and um and i and and you know drinking was very much part of that you know we would sort of uh did you ever feel like you had to rebel against your parents because you i mean you almost had like a a cipher for them yeah i

don't know if i rebelled against my parents yeah but uh um i probably did I didn't, it wasn't like a knowing, like, fuck you to my parents. Right. My parents were very sort of, you know, my dad, you know,

it was, it was like a pioneer of psychedelic, you know, art in the 60s. So it's hard. Yeah, it's a hard trick. Like my dad was like one of the original rebels like so like

did you ever have that impulse was he like did you have an impulse to go like super conservative you know in that way no no no like my my uh my uh aunt and they're like on like a weed commune and like like the kids have been raised by a literal village you know and i just see them just being like you you know what? Even after all of this and like really living with like a rainbow coalition of a family, I'm just going to go out and say it, that white lives matter. Right. I feel like at some point she could make that turn.

I'm going to Duke. Real hard. I'm getting my MBA. But you know what's interesting? Enough drugs. What's interesting about this film is it's very much like a cinematic version of what I imagine, like, for my parents in the 60s was, not as extreme as this, but like in the 60s when all the music on the airwaves was sort of, I'm a pink toothbrush, you're a blue toothbrush. And suddenly. My second favorite song of all time.

And suddenly Little Richard, you know, hits you over the head and you're like, what the fuck is this? Thank you. That is... And I mean... With like blocks. And Pulp Fiction, not to say we were like watching boring films before that,

but it was like a shot out of the blue. Yeah. You know, it just was like, bam. And you're like, oh, we're doing this now. Thank you. And it is. And I think even Forrest Gump ended up winning the Best Picture Oscar, which is, you know, awards are arbitrary, of course.

Yeah. But it felt like you look at it now and you're like, just like, sure, Forrest Gump had, you know what, Forrest Gump is a great movie. It's got a lot of- It's a Sunday afternooner. Yeah, but it's- Exactly.

Put it on, three hours, commercials, you get up, you do things, you come back, it's still there. You clean your house while Forrest Gump is on. But it's sentimental. He's running. It's a sentimental film. Fully.

Yeah. Fully. And it's not, the difference between, it's not a good movie. It's a sentimental film. Fully. Yeah. Fully. And it's not, the difference between, it's not a good movie. It's a fine movie. But it's not punk rock. It's a fun movie. No. It's not punk rock.

It wasn't doing anything different. It's formulaic, too, in so many ways. Yeah. I mean, Zemeckis, there's a lot, I can watch it on a Sunday. Yes. A lot of his stuff and be happy about it. Yeah. But like, Tarantino, literally gun it's just gunfire yeah rapid

fire dialogue just like i mean john travolta also up until that point like i knew him from greece and i knew him from look who's talking right and then he came comes back and all of a sudden he's the coolest person in the world again yeah and i would and then that made me go back and find out why he was actually cool before you know so there So there was, and then also Samuel L. Jackson is just like, that was the beginning of this. I mean, I'm stating the obvious, but that thing of the dialogue or talking about gangsters talking about hamburgers or seemingly very mundane things or pop culture things. I mean, actually with Reservoir Dogs, the very opening scene is those gangsters

sitting around the table, and they're all talking about Madonna. Right. You know, and that had never been done before. No, because every gangster movie before that was like, we're going to go down to the warehouse, and they've got a tour. Yeah, and it's a big build-up.

They're talking about really cool things. It's the Seinfeld of a gangster movie. A little bit, yeah. It's the mundaneinfeld of a gangster movie. A little bit. Yeah. It's the mundane nature of like the day to day life, even for those people. Yeah. Talking about a cheeseburger on the way to go shoot some people. Yeah.

Yeah. Exactly. Spoiler alert. No, everyone. Everyone listening has been pulpit. No one's seen it. No one's seen it. I also love.

And also, by the way. Sorry, I'm interrupting. Not at all. John Travolta's comeback. That's what I'm talking about. Yeah. Look, literally, look who's talking. Exactly.

Look who's talking, too. The one with the dogs was on its way. Yeah, definitely. And then it got resurrected, and then it became problematic again at various points. Yeah, definitely. But here he is. He did a few good ones after that, didn't he? Get Shorty was very good.

Get Shorty was great. He kind of carried on the run, and then he hit Battlefield Earth. He did a few good ones after that Get Shorty was very good Get Shorty was great He kind of carried on the run And then he hit Battlefield Earth He did a weird little There was also Michael in there Where he played an angel Which was not a bad movie But not a good movie

And there's a song from it That I sentimentally love And I can't remember what the song is I want to say it's Randy Newman Oh yeah probably From Michael Isn't it Spirit in the Sky? and I can't remember what the song is. I want to say it's Randy Newman, but it's... Oh, yeah, probably. Which from Michael? From Michael. Isn't it Spirit in the Sky?

Spirit in the... No, that's like an old... That's what they use for the... But no, it's like a song made for Michael. I don't know. I don't know who it is. And also, as a gay man, I find that John Travolta's arc is sad.

Yeah. That's all that it is. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, because there's he's probably he might i mean what the real concern is is like like the same thing with cruise and scientology i know it's difficult in this town to i don't want to offend anyone in this room i don't know you never know who's listening that being said um like you don't they don't just because they can come out as gay if john trafalgar came out as gay no everyone would be like congratulations here's another role you can do hair you just did

hairspray no one is here being like you're this like bastion of masculinity anymore that you're in your career is going to go anywhere in fact we would be proud of you and you go so it's there's got to be darker things yeah you know the secrets have to be weirder and darker. Darker than just I'm gay. Darker than just I'm gay. You know, because like, I think we're over the fact we're like being gay in Hollywood. It can hurt your career. Sure. Let's be honest.

Yeah, but once you've gone on to a Tarantino. I blame it fully on Iona. But you might have made that decision to control your career, you know, earlier on in your life. And then you've gone this far and it's like well i'm like yeah you know what i mean then you start believing in your own yeah exactly you're married and blah blah blah and there's probably a point of pride isn't there where i'm like yeah oh that you've carried the lion for this long yeah long con it's the only thing he's got going on his career still i guess that's true i just like there's got to be, there's, like, he full on gets pictured, like, gets, like, caught on dates with men.

Yeah. You know? So, like, that's the thing where it's just like, don't, like, you're doing a disservice to Kelly and. I know. Are they still married? I'm pretty sure they're still married. Kelly Preston. Yeah.

Yeah. Maybe she, maybe, maybe she's gay. That's, therein lies the great question of it all. Of, like, what, you know know of the beards and all of that what must it be like to be that famous even like every relationship move is like a considered careful pr move too it's gotta be fucking great i would want it yeah i'm so calculating there's a moment when you cross the line there's gotta be a moment where you cross the line where you're like, well, now this is what now everything.

This is how I operate. Now everything is a move. There's nothing natural. An NDA, and I can't say who it was, but a super famous person came to a place. It was supposed to come to a place that I was working at. Yeah. And had built an entire day coming from the west side deep into the east side. And it was also like a business arrangement

kind of thing it was my boss was going to work with said person on the thing and um got there and then sensed paparazzi was going to be there and then turned around and left and the whole thing got like like probably spent six hours planning doing going to a thing deciding not to go and going back to a thing just because you had a sense. Threw their whole day off. Threw the whole day off. And I got sad about that because it is. It's like, what do you, like, how do you exist?

You don't even have the time to create the stuff that you're creating if you're just driving around avoiding paparazzi all day long. Right. When do you experience life in a way that you want to, like, write about it and reflect it in your art? Yeah. Yeah. The person you were talking about was guy fieri of course yeah and like how do you go on and invent the next donkey sauce i work at one of the best fried oyster shops in all of glendale you know i just thought that uh you know but the proper arts we love them yeah you know one one last thing about pulp fiction one and it was the first movie i'm sure other movies did this so and i'm not i'm not by any means a film historian but the way I don't think that's true I am I am a fully accredited film historian uh the the the encapsulated scenes that just like he would do like the like Tarantino

talking about the watch yep you know yeah and he did it especially like in later movies where i mean the and true romance the one where it's uh i think walken and dennis hopper oh yeah you know that tarantino wrote just those like amazing self-contained scenes some of which featuring a character you may not see again in the movie totally but he's giving like one person this amazing scene that was the first time i really saw that and that's like one of my favorite things in movies now pulp fiction is just like a collection of those kind of scenes it's like yeah it's like uh sketch it vignettes whatever i mean just like and they're all they're each they're almost standalone in a lot of ways yeah and they really do they get smushed they get i mean together and it was also i can't remember another movie that like that just like spun out

uh like a lot of like um it just went in a lot of directions and then and then you're like what why is this happening yeah and then it just everything just kind of like touches perfectly one little moment before it goes off all again yeah and it's really it's a special movie and it's beautiful and beautiful on top of that great music every other movie it's like here's the good guy and here's the bad guy chasing them. And they have something to do with each other the whole movie. Yeah. And then these Tarantino movies, it's like, these people have no idea that their lives are all intertwined.

And the soundtracks, of course. Yeah. The soundtracks are amazing. And he very much writes. I've heard him talk about how he has to know the song that is playing in that scene that scene oh that's super interesting is is a very important to him in constructing the i do that i just have never written anything so i do like i think about like i think about songs and how they would play in a certain scene but i've never connected any any of those scenes in any sort of way i just have songs and then just like like the starting i'm gay and that's basically my entire but like i mean the in reservoir dogs where he's

uh cutting the air off and um it's um stealer's wheel stealer's wheel yeah like i mean that that that sort of helps to make that scene totally and it changes that from like what is essentially a scene of torture into like one of just kind of like totally fun you know like it just it gives entertainment entertainment yeah it's not hard to watch until he cuts the air but it also makes it but it also makes it that much more disturbing totally totally and memory and you're right memorable i mean it just he's enjoying himself and lost in something else at the same time as doing this sort of unspeakable act and i mean it's like you know there's there's some hardcore like uh uh rape scenes in uh paul fish and the like you know the uh the gimp scene and like and again yes but even that is so it's almost quite camp it is because it's so outrageous yeah and you so it's quite again it's entertaining because

it's it's going you know you're gonna okay that's sort of like they he's gone there it's it's it's an it it just pushed a lot of boundaries i do think like as as a masterpiece it kind of hits those like it's it's his kind of his definitive work it is it pushed a lot of boundaries and it opened a lot of opened a lot of doors i think even still is the definitive where i what was his second movie yeah but yeah it was yeah he's made an amazing movie since then but that's it's hard to beat that's the fucking word that is the pulp fiction it's saying the most amazing pick it is not time for my first pick and i'm going to pick something that i don't think is going to rouse even half the level of conversation yeah my first masterpiece is something i just had right before we recorded

this podcast a colonoscopy no uh yeah yeah yeah yeah i had i sat down to make my list, and I had a cappuccino, and I'm picking the cappuccino. You naughty, naughty little chef. I appreciate that pick, because I was... Go ahead. Go ahead. No, please go ahead. Because I was thinking about things like that. Do I pull in some kind of food piece?

But it can be crap. You can have crap versions of them you can't you're saying it's a masterpiece of beverage making the cappuccino i love coffee and for me of coffee of coffee of beverages of beverages it's a masterpiece of beverages yeah if if if there are 10 the best things you can drink let's just say i. I think cappuccino. But I think, well, see, here's the thing about cappuccino. It's when you drink it. I mean, it's interesting you drank it now. What is it?

I had it about 10, 10.30. Traditionally, it's drank in the afternoon, isn't it? Oh, I love an afternoon cappuccino. I've been up since 7, though. It's kind of like. That shades the conversation. It's sort of flirting with the idea of being a dessert. It's almost a dessert.

It's the world's lightest tiramisu. You know? Yes. He's only gone and said it. It's frothy as fuck. Yes, he's only gone and said it. It's the world's lightest tiramisu, and it's delicious. It's a delicious cloud layer.

It's like San Francisco,isco too it's like a layer of cloud on top and underneath is just like a delicious fancy um um thing that keeps you up and energy yes yes a hit of energy you know that tiramisu translates as pick me up is it really yeah that's what it means it really is and i and i'll and i'll and i'll go with it yeah it's great i'm i'll i appreciate that let me just paintvy scene. I'm believing it, and I'll go with it. Yeah, it's great. I appreciate that. Let me just paint a scene for you, all right? It can be destroyed by- Bad cappuccinos.

Terrible. And also by the barista's sort of overindulgent chocolate sort of art. I like to see where they're going to go. Oh, you like that. I like to see where they're going to go. They can impress me. I agree with you. Sometimes it's over-the-top pretentious.

But if I'm going to walk away, I'm going to get a drink, and they're going to give me a little love letter just in that to me, personalized for me? If Picasso's got the paintbrush, I want to see what they're going to paint. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. All right. So I'm talking, this is just a best-case scenario cappuccino. But you're sitting at a table.

It's about 72 degrees out. right where are we in italy mediterranean climate we can be in italy ideally you want to ideally you're in italy you want to be on a piazza i think so there's a light breeze somewhere there's a light breeze wind chimes off in the distance oh really just a light wind chime maybe you hear maybe if you just if you make yourself still enough you can hear from a distant window the odd pedophile lurking this is a pedophile yeah peering through the bushes it's italy yeah it's actually roman polanski there's it's roman polanski peering through some bushes yeah yeah and uh maybe you've got you've got a book you know you're wearing linen something is linen maybe seersucker. You're wearing linen. Something is linen. Maybe seersucker.

I think you're right. You're thinking death in Venice type look. Absolutely. There's a hat, but it's on the table. It's on the table. You actually don't wear it, but you just like having the hat. Yes. Maybe it's a hat there. Maybe you're reading sort of Camus, The Outsider or something.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Definitely something to indulge. Or you would have back in the day been reading the new york herald tribune you could you could be you know joe's folded there on the table oh yeah it's a folded newspaper some biscotti yeah and then the piece de resistance yeah the cappuccino in front of you absolutely that you just tiny little i so i also love holding a tiny cup when i can I look good with it but a cappuccino is in between you have an espresso cup

a cappuccino is a little bigger and then a latte cup which is just a latte with a trough it's a coffee trough essentially and the flat white has been trying to steal its thunder get out of here the flat white I don't mind a flat white but cappuccino.

Latte is way too much. It's just a small latte, right? It's like a smaller latte. Well, it's mainly milk, isn't it? It's mainly milk. Just a little bit of that milk foam. Yeah. And when the espresso comes through it, forget about it. No, you're not wrong. It is a masterpiece.

And I've made them in the past. How did they come out? I don't care. I don't care. I'm not an artist. I'm not the Picasso we were talking about. The cappuccino started in the Viennese coffee houses in the late 17, early 1800s. How did it claim an Italian name?

It used to be called the Capuziner. I don't speak Austrian. Actually, that's a pretty clear German translation of cappuccino, I would imagine. Capuziner, yeah. And then made its way to Italy where it was kind of perfected and became the cappuccino. I wonder what capuziner, does it just mean cup of cloud? Cloud coffee? I don't know.

Cup of cloud. Cup of cloud cloud coffee i don't know it doesn't mean cloud cup of cloud all right comes from so cappuccino comes from the latin capuchin later borrowed in german austrian and modified into cup of ziner it is a diminutive form of cappuccino in italian meaning hood or something that covers the head so like small cappuccino like the monkey like a cappuccino so it's a small hood. Got it. Is what it means. Oh, that's cute. They actually used to call circumcision capuchin because you were just getting that hood off. And as a Jew, you would have to wear it on your...

That was the original yarmulke. A lot of people don't know this. The yarmulke was originally your foreskin. That actually makes a lot of sense. You always wonder goes it actually would yeah yeah you know i just imagine the moyle sort of like puts it in his pocket and maybe there's a small collection of some of his favorite foreskins back in his office this was a good year yeah this was they all were good this vintage i'm not gonna tell you i don't know what it was in the water of 1984 yeah um but yeah so it's it started in vienna made its way to italy in the 1920s 1930s it was huge uh you know who's drinking a cappuccino who's that a flaneur a flaneur oh yeah

a well-timed cappuccino yes yeah for for i feel that is key though well-timed and a lot of drinks i feel yeah well-timed like a gin and tonic for instance well it's i would say is a seven o'clock i was gonna maybe i was gonna maybe pick a gin and tonic but i'm not gonna know it's a seven o'clock you changed my life while we were in london i did because i've always liked a gin and tonic but sometimes i'd be drinking them at 11 p.m yeah midnight and we were sitting down and you went off on your like a a good Hendrix and tonic. Yeah. Maybe some cucumber.

Perfect 7 o'clock drink. I mean, I don't drink anymore, so I was really living vicariously. You're just pushing it onto everyone you wanted at every hour when it should be drank. And I drink for two. Yeah. But it's a great first drink of the night. Yeah. It's a really good sort of get the ball rolling.

I'm into that yeah it's refreshing it's light it's breezy yeah it's breezy yeah my dad feels civilized my dad's side of the family was all gin martini and that seemed good in the beginning and then but that was like like the first drink was always a good idea but then like the more gin martinis you had the more they were gin martinis were the original martinis. Right. Because vodka, in fact, if you look at some of those famous cocktail books, like the Savoy cocktail book,

there's not a single vodka cocktail in there. Because it was a... It's a pedestrian. Yeah. It's for the Eastern Europeans. Yeah, exactly. The uncivilized Eastern Europeans. Yeah. You know? I mean know it's a pedestrian yeah it's for it's a it's it's for the eastern european yeah the uncivilized eastern europeans yeah you know i mean it's made from potatoes keep it out of give us a little taste it doesn't belong in the spice yeah no it does not no it's a juniper berry i'm sorry it's a juniper berry yeah yeah what is that your potato it's a potato

potato get the fuck out of my drink yeah a bunch of Ivans. Bunch of goddamn Ivans. I want to pick up. Anyone that can say. I want to pick up and squeeze. I don't want to lug out and just like chop and like swoosh. You know? There should be a fruit. There should be a fruit involved. A fruit needs to be involved.

Anyone that says they know the difference in vodka, like if you blind tasted. Oh, yeah. They wouldn't know. Charlotte didn't. Yeah. They don't know at all. They say, this goes back to a rumor, that if you take like a really, they wouldn't know charlotte yeah they don't know at all they they say this goes back to a rumor that if you take like a really i don't know if this is true but if you take like a really cheap vodka and you run it through a brita water filter a few times

it's like will taste just as good as like a tito's or like 19 times distilled through my brita water filter yeah you just distill it yourself a couple times yeah you take an hr and i don't know if that's true if you run in like an hrd vodka i really can't imagine that because i don't want to go through the yeah but yes the cappuccino the had we been at work today i wouldn't have had it at 11 p.m or 10 no no way or 10 excuse me 11 a.m or 10 a.m. Yeah. Since I have a day off, I'm going to have a leisurely cappuccino earlier in the day. Do you have a more like industrial caffeine drink in the morning? Black coffee. Black coffee.

Yeah. A cup of black coffee. But the sophisticated part of the day comes later? Later in the day. Or on leisure or leisure time. Yes. I like to be caffeinated at all points while I'm awake. Yes, me too.

And so I kind of like need, I just i just i kind of i start early and keep going i just gave up coffee for a while you're just giving it all up i know i know i'm sad i sound awful but uh your body is the master yeah no i yeah i actually have a friend who had to give up giving up things that's how far you need to eat food i'm not actually like that but i just i did i was just on this coffee i felt and uh i guess i i gave up the other the other week and i had just the worst headaches like you the withdrawal the withdrawal you really do i mean i was like on the i gave up on a monday and on the thursday with just intense you're still having terrible but you went through because you made you you made the choice to but i did it but actually i feel much more energetic having anyway boring yeah i'm sure i'm sure it's good choices for your body

over but there's just these uh like but um yeah you've given it's a good choice cappuccino i haven't i don't think i've given up i've given up for a bit yeah you're on a hiatus yeah just giving up for a couple of months when you come back your body will react the way it's supposed to the caffeine you have to drink like that's true you just have like a cup yeah in the morning that was that's the idea so so you're out on coffee but what you're in on is your first pick which you'll be making now oh wow your first masterpiece it's so difficult i know and i feel like you've done a film, you've done a drink. I feel like I should do something a little bit different. But speak from your heart, though.

You just live your truth. Okay, I'm going to pick... Okay, I'm going to pick this. All right. Because they're just, they're incredible things. Pillows. Pillows. Pillows. Another one that can ruin a night, but when it's good.

It's a masterpiece of a design. It is a beautiful design. I mean, encapsulated softness. Do you know, exactly. Yeah. Like, what, could you you would you have a good you know half your life is spent with your head on it's like sleeping on the most comfortable tiramisu yeah most of these things are like a pop fiction is very much like a tiramisu it's layered it's

got its layers it's got its travolta layer yeah and it's a pick-me-up yeah it is yeah a pillow a pillow it's like a bag of comfort. Exactly. Yeah, that you can put anywhere. Yeah. Yeah. How long has the pillow been around? Like, what were, I know, you know, Game of Thrones, they're sleeping on beds and pillows.

I'm assuming they've been around for a while. Right, when was the pillow invented? I mean, you know, I mean, the farthest back in history that I can personally think is Game of Thrones. So, you know, I get all my history from there but like like when when did the pillow become a staple of uh what was and indeed what was before what was before that you know your your your child's body didn't they the egyptians used to sleep on these sort of neck uh sort of rests but like hard just like you know like and they used to sort of stone. They would like sort of stands, like headstands.

The earliest recorded use of pillows is in Mesopotamia around 7000 BCE. And they were usually made of stone. And they were used by Egyptians who brought their next up. But you see, I'm not talking about I'm not talking about that.

Because these were made to keep bugs from crawling into their mouths. Which you couldn't put fucking feathers into a bag, you dumb idiots. I'm talking about feathers in a bag. Yeah. Oh, it was the Romans and Greeks. Feathers in bags. They were stuffed with reeds, feathers, and straw initially. Yeah.

What is your... Talk us through your perfect pillow. Oh, yeah. Well, I think probably like goose down. You like a really soft pillow. I like a soft one, but it can be quite stuffed. At the moment, I have two pillows. Yeah.

So one is more stuffed than the other. Yeah. So sometimes I'll sleep on the harder one, and then later in the night I'll put the second one on. I think you need that. I think you need some sort of contrast because your neck can be in a different sort of pain. And you can also – I like having a bunch of pillows because then you can maneuver them and like sometimes you go to bed and you're just uncomfortable in various ways and you just need to like – you just need to contort in a way that is impossible without a pillow. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

To just – without extra pillows. Part of your body needs to a pillow. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Without extra pillows. Part of your body needs to be supported. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I fuck with a memory foam pillow. Yeah, interesting. Do you like that? I'm insane in bed. I like a memory foam pillow.

But I'll fold a pillow up three times to get it extra firm kind of thing. And then jam it under my torso. Yes. And I'll have a different one. You should get a stone rock like they used to use. I you're you sleep on your on your back i sleep on my side and back okay sometimes on my stomach really yeah you're all over the place yeah i'm all over oh i'm yeah yeah turning um unpleasant i'm an unpleasant bed partner i find memory foam to be too hot that's what i've heard some people say.

Yeah. I'm a sweaty guy. I have a fan blasting on my face at all times. That's cool. I also find it a bit, I find it a bit disturbing. The memory foam? Just like. When it like goes.

Yeah, that and now I'm just in one position. I don't do a memory foam mattress. I don't trust it. Are they collecting your memories? Yeah. Is that why it's called that? It do a memory foam mattress I don't trust it are they collecting your memories yeah is that why it's called that

it's a memory sponge is that why it's called that what is Facebook doing with my memories I never remember my dreams anymore they're all in my pillow

it is weird the way it moves like memory foam pops back into place where you wouldn't be surprised if it started following you yeah like the Terminator

yeah like if you shot memory foam like it looks like it would go back into one piece it would it would it would come back terminator 2008 thread count yeah but you wouldn't you wouldn't dare have a night's sleep without a pillow would you know i mean well i have you have but it's disturbed it's not it's not right sometimes the pillow

was alcohol yeah but that's what you're saying but there's always you have to render yourself unconscious you do in order to have a night's sleep without a pillow and a pillow can do it just with goose feathers yeah yeah you and you are always kind of seeking to like you'll like shove a shirt or your jacket or something to just give you a little bit of that extra just bump for your but yeah i guess because like otherwise your your neck is just an even just a little bit of raising of it gives it some plane because like how could you sleep without a pillow you'd have to be flat on your back yeah they use each other's pillows i guess they do you know i mean some would say the best pillow is your partner's shoulder yeah knee or knee yeah yeah i i prefer to fall asleep on the heaving belly

of a sleeping jaguar i can't sleep unless there's danger yeah yeah i sleep on i sleep on a bed with two three jaguars that's cool that's cool That's cool. I sleep in a jaguar. In a jaguar. I'm the fanciest homeless person in all of Los Angeles. That's some real shit, though. There are people who don't have an apartment who sleep in, who lease a nice car. I was working with a comic named Shil Nopi Sed, who has lost all of his money from his TV times in the 80s. Yeah.

And has a dope-ass car, which he bought a long time ago, has a dope-ass car, which he bought a long time ago, and a dope-ass house, which he bought a long time ago, and then just, like, Gap sweatshirts and cargo shorts, which he wears on stage every set. Has it bounced back. Yeah, because that's L.A., you know? You make your money, you buy your things, and then, you know. What does making it even mean?

Okay, next masterpiece. Okay, yeah. Self-assuredness. Yeah. isn't it that's an amazing pick yeah i don't know it's you think it's a good one yeah the pillow is definitely a masterpiece yeah yes even because even a bad pillow is a good well hold on well that's a bit but have you used an ikea pillow yeah really is that an affront you might as well rip it up you might as well use it as like you should like you can it's probably best to be used to like write a hate note in blood to then mail back to ikea for like what they've done to you it just it's it's nothing it's literally

nothing it folds up into a flat piece of paper that's what i would do with it it's really in a sense it's not a pillow it is sold as a pillow it says it's a pillow it looks like a pillow and it does everything but support you in bed and so it's a fabric bag full of comfort though almost the greatest trick the devil ever pulled yeah it was the ikea pillow was the ikea fucking pillow for your mom bed i don't know i slept the first time i lived in la i moved down seven eight years ago just to do the groundless classes and i had no money so my bed was an egg crate i bought at ikea and pillows that i bought at ikea yeah uh my dad actually gave me five hundred dollars to buy a bed and i ended up just spending it on like bills and stuff you know yeah so every time he

came down he's like what happened to your bed i'm like oh it's i oh and then we're just trying to get this up and just run into a closet yeah bye you're right in there and so and yeah i slept on an egg crate from ikea on the floor and like pillows from ikea and you would have to roll them up it's so tight it's they're they're literally they're not so i like again they can be dece deceiving, but a good pillow is a game changer. Where do you all fall on throw pillows? I'm into it. Yeah. Like maybe one or two.

Yeah. Like one, two. Well, you want to be able to sit on the couch and not have to move all the pillows. That's an insane thing that sometimes you don't want to. It's like that. What's that scene in Along along came polly you remember that oh yeah she's got all those what is that where there's like so many throw pillows it's not a ball pit you have to make it's not a ball pit yeah you have to make a mess on the floor

right then afterwards you have to like put these throw pillows back once you're done sitting there and they're like if that one actually goes there and it's like yeah you put too many on i get it for decoration if you want to if you want to pop a color, you want to like a good splash of color and an otherwise kind of like drab living room or something. Drab was the wrong word to describe your living room. Your living room is drab. Is it drab in like a- It's a masterpiece of drab.

But do you have some splashes of color with some throw pillows? I love a splash of color. There you go. See? Actually, my wife's just bought a sort of very long stripy throw pillow oh yeah um what color uh it's lots of colors the many colors of the court of many colors it's the amazing technicolor throw pillow yeah louis and the amazing uh technicolor throw pillow also louis and the amazing second right. Wow. As it is a serpentine

color. Come on, Technicolor Dreamcoat. Come on, Andrew Lloyd Webber's Technicolor Dreamcoat. Come on. Oh, God, which one should I do? Okay. Okay, this is a bit of a sort of silly one. Yeah. But why not? So I just, this is a bit of a sort of silly one. Yeah. But why not? So I just, this is because it was, I think it was one of, it was a moment in culture. Okay. That I thought was like, you know, it was, I guess you could say it moved things forward. But I'm going to go with Sharon Stone on Crossing Her Legs.

Wow. Oh, really? I can't have the same experience, I think, that you had with that? Yes. As a gay man? But I mean, you can appreciate that it was this sort of... Game changer. Yeah.

It was her vagina in a film, like a real film. This was on the movie Basic Instinct. Yeah. I'm not saying, by the way, which is not a masterpiece. vagina on a in a film like a real film this is a movie basic instinct I'm not saying by the way which is not a masterpiece nor am I saying nor am I saying Sharon Stone's vagina is a masterpiece I have not experienced it

she is going to be pissed at you I was saying that moment in popular culture such a shockwave was a masterpiece of sort of direction or. That's big. I'm a little. I don't.

I didn't see that movie until I was older because I wasn't. I think a lot of my friends saw it for that moment. It was a masterpiece of maybe popular culture it yeah do you know what i mean yeah it was it's it's it's definitely a powerful scene yeah the tension of it yeah it built it builds it it's i'm just gonna put r put Ron Jeremy's penis on here as well. Yeah. For. But for young boys across. Sure.

Across the world. It launched a thousand. It launched a thousand puberties. Yeah. Yeah. No, absolutely. Yeah. It was a masterpiece of a moment.

I feel. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. In the criteria. I'm stretching. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. In the criteria. I'm stretching the idea of masterpiece. Well, so was she.

Yeah, and so she. So was she. I mean, I love Sharon Stone, and my favorite Sharon Stone movie is Muse, The Muse with Albert Brooks. Have you seen that movie? It's kind of like a lesser known Albert Brooks movie, and she's like super zany.

And so like her, up until that point in my mind she was i only kind of knew her as the woman who uncrossed her legs in uh basic who showed her vagina in basic instinct um but again like that didn't hold any cat like cultural cachet for me because I would have been just pretending to like it to fool my friends into thinking I was into pussies. you know what? Hey,

I have a feeling that might not win the fantasy draft. So she's being interrogated. She's being interrogated. I just think nothing like that happened in a... had happened in a... That's true. In a mainstream film like that. It was like

probably back in like the 20s when all of a sudden you could see ankles a lot more than you had in the past. Sharon Starr was a massive movie star who showed her... to the effect... So I'm reading a thing about it right now. Paul Verho movie star who showed her, like, to the effect, you know. So I'm reading a thing about it right now. Paul Verhoeven, who directed it, Basic Instinct, said that he was inspired to add it following a meeting at a party that he was at in the Netherlands.

And he met a woman who didn't wear underwear. And she had, like, this effect on all the men in the room where they just couldn't handle themselves. Yeah. So it's an interesting scene in, like, it's an interrogation where she's being interrogated for a murder right or for a crime she's being brought in by the cops yeah michael douglas newman from seinfeld is in there yes why not and the way the power structure is flipped it is an interesting scene in that way where like she's playing with him perhaps she's playing well yeah you know the power of the uh vagina yeah is a masterpiece in itself um i don't have sex with women because i respect

women and the vagina too much i mean it's a piece of art from which all life springs eternal. And to defile that feels- How could you? Would be an affront against humanity. Affront against art, nature, and it's just icky for me. And it's icky. Icky because I respect it so much. Because you like it so much, yeah. And so in that effect, I mean, it's a masterpiece.

But I think that the film would not have been as successful as it was. No. No way. That one moment. No. That one scene made it almost like the, it's also the crowning scene of a certain type of movie. Yes.

Any, like, Jade. Crowning. Yeah, crowning. Yeah. No pun intended, crowning. That would have made that a very different that would have been a very different scene yeah then it's like yeah but like the the the sexual adult thriller that was like in the 80s and the 90s which was a movie they don't really make attraction yeah

fatal attraction yeah uh yeah and that's the defining scene from like those types of movies yeah um yeah yeah so just a little bit of skin so what what don't know if it moved us forward but it's definitely if you think about it if you look back like that is the scene if you had to be like describe to me the uh psychosexual thriller movie genre you would be like well here's the defining scene of it yeah it definitely is an iconic moment in in cinema i would say that that that stands yeah for sure i feel like maybe i've i've i've uh stretched stretched the masterpiece i don't know if you have but i felt like it was a fun i felt like it was something to discuss it's a fantastic we're discussing yeah yeah fantastic pick yeah i think the fact that you feel a little unsure about it is a good i think it's a good thing yeah i think it's a good thing

uncomfort there are people who have never seen that movie oh my god oh my god it's happened casey just said he's wearing he's wearing shorts but you get the feeling there's nothing there's nothing underneath um and it is again the scene itself works really well just based on like how immediately a power dynamic can be flipped. Yeah. Just by introducing sexuality to it. Yeah. Great. Sharon Stone uncrossing her legs in Basic Instinct.

I think you might, it's always fun with the voters. Oh, shit. I forgot to do a poll this week. I'll do a poll. By the time you hear this, there will have been a poll for last week. But it's always interesting to see what the listeners go with. My next pick will be more of an actual masterpiece.

I wish you were on Twitter so people could get a hold of you, but I will relay any messages. You'll learn a lot about your listenership through whether Sharon Stone's legs being uncrossed in Basic Insignia. Yeah. I've got to say, I partly chose it just to sort of. I'm interested.

Just to be a flaneur. Just to be a flaneur. You don't want overlap. Just to keep things a little different. And you knew that I wasn't going to say that. I'm going to now pick. It's time for my second pick. I'm going to go.

I'll stay in the popular culture genre. I'm going to pick my favorite episode of The Simpsons, Cape Fear. Oh, my God. Yes. It's on my list. Is that really on your list? Can I say that? Is it allowed?

It's on my list. Oh, absolutely. That's what's the fun of it. Cape Fear, it's the second episode of the fifth season. It's a spoof of the movie Cape Fear. Yes. But it's- With an HMS Pina it's with an hms pinafore uh almost fully formed in the middle yeah for he remains in like at the end so sideshow bob you know you know the feather simpsons right of course yeah yeah yeah you're

i mean i am not the persona non grata here yeah because have not seen that episode. You haven't seen that episode. You would love this episode. I'm sure I would. But I'm someone that watches long-running series like that, a dip in and out of them, and I've never sort of- Get the FX app and just knock yourself out on it. Yes. Yeah.

Because I'm going to say for The Simpspsons between season two and nine yeah required yeah required and like timelessly funny yeah like uh and season five is right in the middle of that so the die bart die thing like the d bart d it's german for the bart the like sideshow bob was this guy who like bart got in like put in prison basically right he was cars crushy the clowns original side but you never saw that you just you just find out his backstory later you know through these episodes yeah voiced by kelsey grammar who you don't have who i never had appreciation for as an actor but as a like is dialectician even a word someone who can like who who who has the command he's i'm sure he's a shakespearean trained actor his command of the language is so

uh amazing and i appreciate frazier now in a way that i never did because of just how like how coherent and lucid and witty and fun it is to just listen to him. To listen to him talk. And he's voicing like a cartoon clown sidekick like in this. Do you know that character at all? Yeah, of course. Okay, yeah, I got it, I got it, I got it. So he's like, this is my favorite scene in all The Simpsons. And this is, I mean, I'm not like breaking new ground with this,

but the rakes. The rakes is the best. Where Sideshow Bob gets out of a car and then steps on a rake that like slams him in the face because you step on it and it like kicks up. And they do it nine times. It takes a minute. I feel like all of Family Guy

is an impression of the rake scene. Of that one scene. I feel that entire show is just based off of the rake scene. What if we just keep doing this? What if we just keep doing this? Do it over and over again until it's like, and then wait, you're still doing it

after it shouldn't be happening on primetime television. Yes. You know, like you just do something. It was, it was the, the,

the Simpsons was, and is like, uh, uh, like, so, um, the game changing because real like live show,

like a, a non cartoon shows try to push in ways that the simpsons was pushing back yeah um and it's just so funny and it's so weird they and one thing i fucking love about the simpsons and and something that i get disheartened working in television now is that the simpsons would do a smart joke and they weren't worried about like they it doesn't seem like there were ever meetings where they were like will everybody get this joke right is everybody gonna get this yeah like that that come feels like it comes up so often in hollywood now yeah like are people gonna miss the joke and it's like the simpsons were like we don't give a fuck no and there are

moments that i won't do i look back and i i'll watch an episode that i hadn't seen in a long time there's the episode of the art like uh the like, there's like an art thieving thing. And like Grandpa and Mr. Burns were in the same like World War II group. Yes, the fighting health. And then like some Nazis had stole some art. But there's this one moment and it's like the guy, the German guy comes to reclaim the art that was taken from his family and he just like throws it like he doesn't care into the back of his convertible and he goes okay now we got to go off to see the kraftwork concert yeah and like i had no idea what kraftwork was as a kid you get

the idea yeah totally and also the the other thing with those sort of jokes is that you like you get the idea and also if you don't't, it's kind of surreal. And that's entertaining in itself. And that's why it's entertaining. Because I was watching The Simpsons as a nine-year-old, you know, and I was loving it. But I didn't get half of it. And so you go back and now you see. Because you're right.

It's fun. It's a cartoon. It is surreal. Itchy and scratchy. It's funny. Even when you don't realize it's a commentary on uh like cartoon violence or violence in tv um but then like but now but i i bring up the craftwork thing because i now fucking love craftwork yeah right but as a kid you didn't get it and you're like oh that was

a very smart job yeah yeah yeah there's a craftwork who by the way i've just been watching um the defiant ones oh yeah oh okay we were talking't realize on the first episode, Dr. Dre is talking about how Kraftwerk was a huge influence on some of the first hit production. No doubt. Yeah.

Because, I mean, like a lot of Dre production is like, is electronic-y. And, you know, I mean, like he was pulling in like

interesting electronic beats, which was coming from disco to, you know, like all of that funk. And Kraft beats, which was coming from disco, too. You know, like all of that funk. And Kraftwerk, in a very weird way, is a very funky and dancey band. Yeah, right. Despite it's just like constant droning in a lot of ways. Industrial and German.

Kraftwerk is great. And I think their influence on electronic music is... I mean, I don't need to be the one who says it's like, you know, they're the baseline of a lot of stuff. But they started electronic music in so many ways um and dre took those some of those synths and stuff i'm like yeah he's like let me just slow it down the model is a song you can put on any time and it's just like it just kind of like seeps into your brain and you'll and it's just it the first time i heard the model for the graphic it's never never left my brain i think about it almost every day the model the model yeah She's a model and she's looking good.

Check it out. I don't think I know that song. I'm definitely going to listen to it. But yes, I love this choice. It's probably my favorite. Homer at the Bat is fun too. Homer at the Bat is so good. I haven't seen it, but I know you're right. It's just such a good episode.

There's the one because the D-Bart D, he has Die Bart Die tattooed on him. I think on his chest, or is it? Yeah. And he's getting paroled from prison. And they're like, what is that? And he's like, oh, it's not Die Bart Die. It's The Bart.

The. And the parole board's like, no one who speaks German could be evil. Right. And they like release him. Just like all these little amazing jokes i love it so much to so like sideshow bob has cornered bart on the because his family moves and they're living oh it also has the false start where they isn't it where they change their name uh to the thompsons yes they do and then it does the start the thompson and it yeah so they like do witness relocation and change their name to the thompson's i think it's the same episode i think that this

episode is the is the is the best like overall piece of simpsons work because i can i remember it i remember scenes but i don't i will say i don't remember specific lines from it in the way that i do other ones yeah um and because i was like, you know what? I'm going to do a Simpsons episode too. Right. And I was debating between this one and the one where Marge befriends John Waters and the other things that Bart is gay. Oh, God, it's so good. We can talk about that one now too.

But just because it's social, I think it was like the late 90s and I don't think I was an out gay man, but it was watching that being like they get it right the simpsons get it no one else in this stupid world gets it but these guys get it so i was like okay things are going to be okay but also it was so fucking funny so funny and quotable and i remember just like homer trying to uh like make bart a man and so he takes him to the steel factory. Right. And then they're all just gay. And it's like a gay disco. We work hard. We play.

And we play hard. Hot stuff coming through. Like those moments are amazing. And then that's also like, I like my beer cold, my TV loud, and my homosexuals flaming. Yeah, flaming. Yeah.

Which is, I think, a pretty definitive, a pretty clear comment on the way that America sees their gays. All the homers across America feel the same way. And the way Hollywood sees their gays, too. Yeah, a little bit. If we really want to get into it.

Get into it. Yeah, we're all just the normal, not normal gays. That was the wrong, now I'm being problematic. But no, it's easy, stereotypes are easy to box. Right, they want you to fit into that certain box. And they want you to fit and they want you to fit in there you know yeah and i have layered masculinity on over the years to try to not be called uh uh uh you know faggot is the word that i was trying to not be called you know and

so i was like oh yeah sure i like radiohead a lot you know uh but um it's interesting that's the kind of masculinity you try to go with yeah I knew it was never going to be lacrosse it was never going to be lacrosse in a fucking muscle car it was going to be like

you know Radiohead and like I don't know like a Thomas Pynchon novel right right exactly yeah

a certain kind of yeah you're having a cappuccino cappuccino masculinity cappuccino Hemingway and I love women yeah

Sharon Stone's scenes all of Sharon Stone's scenes having a cappuccino yeah cappuccino cappuccino hemingway and i love women yeah sharon stone's scenes yeah all the sharon stone scenes no yeah i gave that up i gave that pretty early but like it is funny because like as a kid as a little kid i look back on it now and like i was like like pretending to figure skate to disney musicals you know but like i realized that that was just not gonna like be the way to get the friends. Right. So I was like, sure, baseball or whatever. Absolutely. Even straight guys do a little bit of that. Oh, absolutely.

A lot of masculinity. Most masculinity is acted in a lot of ways. But I look back at it now and I'm like, I'm very interested in the person that would have just developed that way. If you were honest time what would your evolution have been like i feel like i would be somewhere in the like uh like gorvodol kind of gay who i in my mind i would be in italy up on a top of a mountain, having sex with a lot of men, and then just like questioning power structures from a queer lens, but also kind of being like, you can't call me gay because calling me gay means you're taking away my power.

Gay isn't even a thing, okay? That's something you created to box me in and take away my power. Gay isn't even a thing. Okay. That's something you created to box me in and take away my power. And I'm live on in a palace in Italy and I get to do what I want. And you're going to just try and say that I can't have any power. No, I'll show you what real power looks like. And so like, if you had like,

but like now I embrace gay because you need these identities to help form communities that you didn't have as a kid. You turned into Caligula. Yeah. You would have been a Roman gay. good but like but like i but like nice good color but still empathy but still empathetic and empathetic caligula yeah yeah let's name my band yeah empathetic caligula that's a great radio head song that's their next album yeah um but yes cape fear that the john waters episode is one of my

it's also one of my top five it's so good he's so good at it fucking i love john john i i considered some john water stuff too there's also i think there's a moment where like bart is doing like he's like that yeah or something like that and that like that always like that always pops into my head where it's like well how do you know like i had a joke along the lines of while i was like well like whenever kids wanted to play guns i would always say zap yeah instead of bang and they'd be like it's bang and i was like okay uh bang and they're like go back to zap i just want to take a second to let you know that this week's episode of All Fantasy Everything

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Shout out to you. Back to the episode. KZ Lyon, it's time for your second and third pick. Okay, well, this guy, I wanted to include something from this person because I think, just for all of our sake, like a little bit of nostalgia for these times would feel good. So, I'm talking about Barack Obama. Oh, yeah. And I'm talking about, he's, we don't think of speech makers anymore as, you know, real artists. Yeah.

But that, it's an art in form of itself and it's something um you know in this day and age people can't listen for more than four minutes to anything right you know you can't like just like one person talk that's why i can't believe people come to do see stand-up it's insane it is crazy it's crazy to me but they have to be dark and have a no cell phone rule that's the only way that's very true conditioned into liking it yeah so the 2004 convention speech before he was a thing before he was any this launched his career he walked out on to the stage to talk for john kerry and um delivered a mesmerizing uplifting yeah game changing speech that literally changed history because it made him it it it launched his career and made him president four years later he was a state senator a state he was a state senator when he gave that speech which is which is amazing he wasn't even a

senator so you know how i mean he was running for senate against jerry ryan's husband who was like a sex addict yeah yeah something like that yeah and then he had to drop out so essentially he was like there was no question he was going to win but also there was no kind of question he was going to win because he was barack fucking obama but he stands up there and he's like he starts it with like my father was a goat herder from from kenya my mom is from kansas and he said it with a cadence. Literally, you could just, watching it now, knowing it still has this effect of like, oh, of course this guy was everything. It was such a star is born moment.

It was a star is born moment. And the crowd, like they'll cheer in a convention crowd. They'll cheer at anything. They'll cheer like, you just say like, no war, you know, a Democratic one and a Republican one, they'll be like, immigrants are terrible. Like, you know, like that, there are easy lines to make people cheer. People actually quieted down and just listened to him.

And that I think is hard to do in something like that. And it just was, it was emotional. It was not, he never once talked down to us throughout his entire career. You know, he always kind of like spoke to our better angels. He was also great. Those speeches that he would build, they build and build and they would, you know, and they reach a crescendo by the end. Yeah. But almost imperceptibly, you didn't know how it had been done.

I think he gave. By the end, he'd kind of, you know, it was emotional. Emotional. No, and it was, I i mean that a great crescendo and i've he actually probably gave better speeches um and michelle obama's speech at the con the at hillary's convention made me cry and like you know like there's something and but it like as far as like one that changed the game i think that speech probably has to go down as a masterpiece yeah i just miss yeah it's especially i mean especially now i mean with with trump at all i mean yeah yeah it was so

like and that obama's in the 2004 one you know there was definitely like hope which would become one of his but also just like holding people accountable too which i fucking miss like politicians doing that because him saying like we have more work to do it's not like we're not done right you know that was one of the themes of that speech too calling on like like it's gonna you need to work it's not the government's not gonna do it for you and also some great man figure like trump is not gonna do it for you and there's no one to blame we all have to fucking work like we have to do it i miss leaders like calling for that i so much i would the entire convention of trump's was i there's a lot that needs to be done and i'm gonna do it all yeah

and i'm gonna give you all and if you just put your trust in me i'm gonna give you everything you want yes he's sandwiched between two of the worst speech makers of all time i know and i think we're actually doomed to move in further in that direction yeah that's what's terrifying is what's next is like what do we bounce back like we did from george w bush or is it or is it like further into the dark i can't i don't i will i mean we'll see reagan was a good speech maker reagan was a good speech maker you know i mean delano roosevelt was a good speech maker kennedy was a good speech maker Reagan was a good speech maker you know I mean Delano Roosevelt was a good speech maker

Kennedy was a great speech maker Churchill was a great speech maker like politicians they should be inspiring to us and that's what's been so just like painful to watch is just like the the level at which the level of our expectations

are so diminished for what it means to be a politician. And even fucking, you know, they'll just be like, well, Clinton wasn't some sort of moral figure, you know? Clinton got his dick sucked. He just got his dick sucked. But I think it's about, you have to be a communicator, you know? Right. Clinton was an amazing communicator. Yeah.

you know a great you know right you know it's about communication amazing communicator yeah yeah but trump is a great communicator for the dumb dumb dumb dumb down version of what passes when he get when he's um on the teleprompter or whatever you call it yeah the um he he can't i mean he's terrible at reading no it's not inspiring and that's what just the the obama like obama wasn't afraid to use like big words correctly yeah one and two he would like he also was he would throw shade in subtle ways and i re-watched the speech because i was like is it as good as i remember and there's a moment where he's talking about other countries like why america is great and one of those reasons is because we count everybody's vote and he takes a beat and he's like, well, most of the time, a throwback to 2001, you know, and he's just like, so like he's, you know, he's highfalutin, but also like cutting like subtly too in ways.

And it was just really like, it's really, it's a great speech. He's a great guy. Miss that guy. Miss that guy. Come back. Come back. Come back. Would you change the rules?

Do you think the rules should be changed? Like, I don't. But like, would you like to? Would you like? Because there's no figure on the horizon who's going to save us from all of this. Oh, I know. You mean like three terms? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

That's a terrible idea. A terrible idea. You are right. You are right. But like, people are saying people would, people want. It would be great to have him instead of Trump. But then it's always that. But then you'd have.

When they throw that knife on the floor, the other side might pick it up yeah well yeah absolutely well that's why trump can kill people with drones all right obama was going to be with drones he's got as good as we were saying that he was of course obama had his but yeah but he gave a good speech he did bad shit i mean but he gave good and there was just some dignity and i missed most presidents of this country are going to have blood on their hands in some form or other. I mean, it's like Duke Ellington said, it's not what you do. It's the way that you do it. Perfectly put. You know?

Yeah. Because Trump is still, at least some of the, I don't even want to get into the drone stuff. But like Trump is a shithead and then also dangerous and then also doing all that bad stuff. Yeah. And he sucks. He just sucks. He just sucks. I don't respect him.

So that's the thing with Obama. I get he's got work to do. Talking of Roman emperors, Caligula, et cetera etc he does remind me of a of a sort of narrow a narrow narrow type figure he's got all the sort of trappings of of that wealth and narcissism yeah while the world's falling apart around yeah you know watching rome burn what i don't get i get seriously i get political differences what i don't get is how you can look at fucking Donald Trump, this like sniveling, egotistical fucking like dude interested only in himself and vengeance, doesn't have a personal ethos.

His only personal ethos is bigging up the Trumps and putting down anyone who either actually wronged him or perceived to be wronged him. That's it? This fucking weak, feckless man. I know it's, I know it's sort of very based. I'm not actually comparing to Hitler because I don't think he is like that. But, but if you look back at all sorts of unpleasant,

strong men in history, you know, a lot of them, I mean, Hitler, for instance, you know a lot of them i mean hitler for instance you know you hear about people who sat next to him uh before he was gone to power right you know in fact austin wells there's a there's a interview with him talking with dick cavett about how he sat next to him

and he said he was nothing he was a nothing of a man yeah uh i think this is true of a lot of those people. They're not they're like, you know, I was saying this to Ian the other day about how a megalomaniac like a crowd is the drug to be absolute jokes and who were worrisome but then you get the crowd like who knows where trump's mind is right now who knows what all of this like insanity and all just like the the um the the crowds egging him on to believe that he like oh i am like he probably believes he's right even though he believes in nothing he believes he's so clear he's right so at some point that snaps and sure there are power structures in place that mean he can't kill all the jews and black people and gays in this country but like the republicans aren't saying giving me much hope that they're giving me much hope to believe that they're going to stand up to anything that he wants to do you know i'm not saying it's going to happen yeah but like i i

would i'd say their minds actually probably work pretty similarly. Which is why Barack Obama's 2004 convention speech shines as even more of a beacon. It's time to find out what your next masterpiece is. All right, let's do this one. My next one, okay. I think I'll go back to pop culture. How about this I'm gonna do the song The video

And the debut At the Superbowl of Formation oh I love that By Beyonce oh wow So taken Individually they're all great They're all great But together It's a masterpiece of Taken individually, they're all great. They're all great.

But together, it's a masterpiece of pop culture. Yeah. So you're taking, and I like this, Beyonce's release of Formation. Release at the Super Bowl. Yes, release of the Super Bowl. Because it had not, I don't. I think it had been on HBO. It hit three times, right? I think the song was debuted.

Formation was debuted at the Super Bowl. I think the song also came out that day. Was that with Coldplay? Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then, and also, so she walks out there. It's a song that no one has heard before. Of course, it's Beyonce, so everyone's going to be psyched. Yeah.

But it was a huge beat. And then it was also overtly political too. Yeah. And the women come out and they're all in an X formation in a lot of it. And it just kind of like melted your face because it was like, what is this? What is this? I went to see the concert at Staples, the Dodgers. Oh, hang on. She did? Was it the right? The Dodgers. She did?

Was it the Dodgers? Yeah, I went to the Dodgers stadium. I'm pretty sure I went there. Anyway, when she was and it was an amazing show. She's incredible. She's like there's going to be shade thrown

at Beyonce for a variety of reasons. And you can say she's fake and her relationship is fake and everything is performative and all that stuff. That's what makes her so great. Everything is an amazingly fine-tuned performance. culmination of a career I think being in this box because this fame box and this was just like a busting out of who

she really is in a lot of ways and it all just the video is amazing. The song works from a perspective of a dance club banger to a like thought provoking political anthem yeah and again how it was released she stole the show Coldplay was the oh yeah you know why Coldplay

was the sideshow yeah and Bruno Mars to hold it held his own yeah but it was all washed away by just what Beyonce did and so I can't you know, a gay guy can't come on a show. And now Beyonce's like, yeah. It's so, but those shows, by the way, the show,

as well as being political and all that, I mean, the show, I mean, it is hot. Oh yeah. I mean, it is so sexy.

Those videos. But I mean, but like in a sophisticated way. Totally. I mean, it's very, and I think she takes a lot from, she's very inspired by like my dad used to go and see tina turner and the i cats and used to say it was just the hottest show

i mean in terms it was just so sexy yeah but i mean you know and i uh you know and it's a powerful it's a powerful sex yeah yeah yeah yeah and um which is kind of more exciting actually i'm i'm and she and just the way that she they move and have you know in literally in formation those right all her her girls yeah i mean it's it's it's quite something to behold it's stunning you know strutting legs and all of them too and it's just and she's just I was gonna almost say her her halftime show that she

that just her own oh yeah that was also good because that was awesome too and I think that that was big and then and there is this moment too where she has

Destiny's Child like pop up out of nowhere on that and it's great but they're always in the back and then she just kind of sends them off at one point

yeah that's enough and it's like it is it's spectacular, it's spectacular. And she's such this like singular figure. But like that song, Beyonce is great in so many ways. But Formation and that album is great. Lemonade was great. And it like really hit the culture.

But that song is just forever in my mind. Who's your Sasha Fierce? Who's my Sasha Fierce? Who's my Sasha Fierce? I'll tell you mine is. It's called Barnaby Cross. Barnaby Cross. So for our listeners, Beyonce has a character who she becomes called Sasha Fierce when she really needs to turn it on. Yeah.

And yours is Barnaby Cross? Yeah, of course. All right. Mine is Aloysius Saint Everything. Oh, really? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

I'm Chabuji. Chabuji. Chabuji. Yeah. That's a drag name, I guess. Yeah. Really, it's just like the drag version of me. Aloysius St. Everything is all capes.

Yes. Yeah. Only wears capes. Capes, cappuccinos. Capes, cappuccinos, cape blanchette. That's my big three. I have insatiable appetite for three things. I'll start with C. Capes, cappuccinos, Cate Blanchett. My big three. I have insatiable appetite for three things. I'll start with C.

Capes, Cate, cappuccinos. Cappuccinos. Bear. Who kiddies? What was your Barnaby Cross? I don't know. I was just. I love it.

Yeah. You didn't seem too stoked on my Aloysius saying I love that. I love Aloysius saying that thing. It's probably not true. It's your best selves. Yeah. I really, if you pull back and you think about it, you could probably get to one that you'd be like,

you know what, this is actually my best self. But that's my first draft. I love the idea of saint and then something that isn't an actual saint. That's funny. Just as a last name. I like Saint Barbara. Like Santa Barbara is really just Saint Barbie. Saint Barbara.

Yeah, so Saint Barbie, who's the patron saint of like crisp Sauvignon Blancs. Patron saint. I was looking into this yesterday, so I went on a tangent, but it's quite a fun thing. I mean, there are some crazy things that some of these saints are patron saints on. There's one I discovered, which I don't know if it was sent someone uh, patron saint of people in the middle of an animal attack that's a real thing

yeah if you're being gored by a bull, you're like, oh remember the greatest saint Barnabas or whatever there's some amazing stuff that they're patron saints of I want that list yeah, yeah, I'm sure it's following around the internet I know just know one, it's a CC who's a patron saints of uh i want that list yeah yeah yeah i'm sure it's falling around the

end i can't i know just know one it's a cc who's a patron saint of lost things isn't that a thing of animals as well and animals yeah one last comment on beyonce's formation yeah which is the then the music video itself is so fucking dope the way it like subverts southern gothic culture make it makes it like a black thing. It kind of recaptures that. Yeah. Awesome. It's simultaneously threatening, but in a subversive, dreamlike kind of way. It's really good.

I can listen to that song. I listen to the song at least once a week. I mean, I still listen to that song at least once a week. That album is like a turn in a sort of... It's serious. It's a serious piece of art. Yeah. at least once a week. That album is like a turn in a sort of... It's serious. It's a serious piece of art. I'm not to say that her stuff before is not pop music.

It was pop music. It's more pop music. And this was like... No, no, no. You were finishing it. No, no. It had real integrity to it. Agreed. The video version also has the Big Freedia talking shit in the middle of it which the album cut doesn't yes which i love it's so good because i love big frida well and she's music

because like she's from like i she would get a lot of slack beyonce would for not um really embracing her black roots as much as she she should politics as much as she should, and her southern roots as much as she should. And all of this was just like, look, I can do it and I can do it well. And I do it because I mean it. And it was so good because she really does mean it. It's so good. Amazing pick, Beyonce's Formation.

It is time for me to make my third pick. Yeah. And I'm going to take something that I sincerely believe is a masterpiece, something that was developed, I think more than a hundred, something that was developed I think more than 100 years ago that I don't think we've beat yet, which is the Levi 501 jeans. Oh, I had that down. Did you really have that?

I had Levi 101s. Wait, what's 101s? What's the 101? The 101s. They're 501s. 501s. The 101 is just more congested. Why am I putting 101?

I don't know. I had that down. The Levi 501 so i absolutely concur it's it's we haven't we haven't beat it as far as pants go yeah it was i think like god when were those invented 1890 by by i think it's when it's a german lewis it must have been jewish levi well levi yeah right yeah that's levi strauss levi strauss levi strauss huh levi's started in san francisco or am i making that up san francisco it did yeah yeah they were like pants for like gold miners

right and stuff like that just for people living out out on the uh and denim you know the outskirts and the outskirts just doing hard labor i believe denim is a i i think I'm right in saying it was originally a French material from France. Maybe, yeah. Denim is denim. Denim. Is in France. Wasn't everything leather just before? Like, wasn't it all like, could you, anything sturdy had to be leather up to that point?

Yeah, it's workwear. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Denim is, what is denim? That's a question that I want to ask. It's cotton, isn't it? Oh, it's work wear yeah yeah denim is what is denim that's a question it's cotton isn't it oh it's cotton yeah yeah but like it's like corduroy as well as french which is royal cord it means it was for the french kings it was a sort of i love a good corduroy yeah i love a good i like the swish of a corduroy i like you know i can't wear any of that in los angeles because it's too hot yeah i'm kind of like i would it just is a sweaty thing in general but like but denim what is the 501

design like what's the like is it just uh the 501 it's i mean it's the it's the original it's the riveted yeah it's the ones with the rivets on it. Okay. It's a fairly straight cut. It's kind of a straight cut. I like them cuffed. I like a cuffed 501. Yeah. Where you roll it up yourself so you can see the selvedge on the side. Yeah, on the bottom. Yeah.

Down to the bottom. Yeah. Yeah. There's no swirls on the pockets, you know? Right. It's a no-nonsense jean. It's a no-nonsense jean. And they're still cheap.

It's just the first one they did. Yeah, and it's a no-nonsense gene it's a no-nonsense gene it's just it's just still cheap the first one they did yeah and it's still like pretty cheap it's still pretty cheap although they've got very expensive for what they are haven't they for paying i mean 59 bucks 59 bucks compared to like any other gene of like reputable sort like a diesel gene is out of control i don't even it's crazy jeans should not be expensive denim yeah i mean they really shouldn't it's like t-shirts it should be like information it should be free yeah you need it yeah okay that's why i steal new yorkers it's just i mean i don't like the design i don't i don't have the language to talk about why it looks good yeah but they just kind of look good on everybody.

Yeah. A 501. Fat guy can rock a 501. Skinny person. Yeah. Women look great in 501s. Yeah. You can wear them and be like a rockabilly person.

You can put one on with like a blazer. And like, you know, go to like a formal setting and wear 501 jeans. They're comfy. They get comfier the more you wear them. That's true. They look better the more you wear them, as long as you wash them right. I work in this vintage clothing place, and people will pay high price for someone's old-ass 501s. Yeah.

You know? Because when they get to the point where they're just almost like silky. It is. It is an interesting thing how they do it. I don't know. I always feel like I don't feel comfortable. It is. It is an interesting thing how they do it. I don't know. I always feel like I don't feel comfortable. I think I don't feel comfortable in clothes that don't hold their form a little bit, I think. And so that I always feel like, oh, I've like overblown it and I've worn it out. But now that I think about it, you're right. Like when it does, when like there is like it gets more comfortable in like even the denim changes. The denim changes and like treats your body nicer. in in like uh even the denim changes the denim changes and like treats your body nicer and it and like one thing and this is getting maybe a little overly poetic but it is cool to have like

a piece jeans bro they really are just pants but like clothing that like you can have a personal effect on like you know like you've had these jeans for maybe like 10 years and they've mold they you've changed them just in the way you wear them into like now there's a little more give in the knee and this part's really soft just because the way like your body's built and they get you too you know they grow with they grow with you it's a piece of your skin and then you get a fresh pair and they're like also those are dope too i like a good for i like a fresh pair that like deep blue anyway the levi 501 yeah yeah do you know that um uh talking fresh pairs of jeans do you know that don simpson from simpson brookheimer

used to wear a new pair of black jeans every single day really yeah wait who is that who is so don simpson and jerry brookheimer oh. So he was- A new pair, every. I mean, he was, have you, I mean, by the way, one of the most entertaining books you can read is a book called Don Simpson and the Culture of Hollywood Excess. High Concept, it's called. You're a wealth of wonderful knowledge over there, Laurie. You are. But he was almost sort of Roman in his sort of excess.

He was all pills and drugs. Oh, yeah. He died with like 42 different drugs in his body reading Oliver Stone's biography on the toilet. That's how you got to go. That or calling with poppers in your hand. I mean, it's cocaine. It's all this sort of thing. He was addicted to liposuction and but but but one of his sort of um uh yeah one

of his kind of quirks was that he he he believed that like the and he's kind of right when you put a pair of black jeans in the wash yeah they're never the same no he's he's actually kind of right 100 and i'm someone who likes wearing, I always wear black trousers. Yeah. You know, blackish trousers. Yeah. I'm four months into a pair of black jeans not having been washed. So, yeah, he would have a new pair every single day.

You know what? We can all have our goals. And I think that that's actually a pretty solid goal. That's like a pretty attainable goal. It's not a bad goal. Yeah. At least a new one every month. You know you've made it.

There's a comic that I worked with whose writer had a fresh pair of, on every show, fresh pair of, I can't remember the shoe, but like a really nice shoe. Yeah, maybe it was Jordan. Yeah, that's who it is. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Every show. Wow. Every show, fresh pair of Jordans.

Well, it's become like a sort of OCD thing. Probably, too, but it's that way of feeling. A great way to collect Jordans. Yeah, true. That's a pretty, yeah. Yeah. Louis Weymouth, it is time for your third and then your fourth picks.

Okay, I'm doing two. Okay, I'm going to do, okay, good. I've got two. I'll do a more sort of obvious one. All right. Okay. So I'm going to say that I think Billie Jean by Michael Jackson. Oh, yeah by Michael Jackson is the perfect pop song.

I think it's a masterpiece of popular pop music. By the way, I was thinking of doing Madonna's Like a Virgin. Also amazing. Because I think that was a sort of, again, was a game changer. But actually, I think, I don't really, I would never listen to that. Billie Jean is just a masterpiece. It is a masterpiece. Of production as well, but Quincy Jones produced it.

And yeah, I don't think it can be bettered I mean it has been bettered really I mean I'm sure people would disagree with me you could put that song on up to any hit that is of any era since and people would lose it to that as much as they are to the most popular song of the day it is any DJ's get out of jail free card

oh totally yeah it really is if you've wandered too far down and you just put that on so funny it's a long shot i played bow house the dance floor will just fill up in seconds it's it's very true and and i mean i'm i'm going to several weddings over the next couple of months and i guarantee that they will all have that and probably motown philly knowing this group of people but um that like yeah it's a it's a time it's a timeless dance hit great album yeah Michael Jackson great yeah great Michael Jackson performing that song on the Motown 25 when they did that oh yeah well that was yes exactly that was the first

time people had seen him perform the moon he did the moonwalk and everything yeah yeah yeah there's a great video on YouTube I'll post a Twitter link to it, but it's like a history of dance thing. Oh, yeah. But it's all done to the Billie Jean. Oh, wow. Yeah. But just of like everything that kind of led up to the moonwalk. Yeah. He was hugely

influenced by a lot of other dancers. Fosse. Bob Fosse. Actually, there's a thing called Snake in the Grass, which actually, if you watch that, you'll see a lot of stuff that he's lifted but you know that you know that after that performance that you're describing yeah that uh um fred astaire oh yeah called him that night and said that was the greatest performance i've ever seen oh wow yeah fred astaire called him to say, to congratulate him.

There's something about Michael Jackson that, you know, similar to Beyonce in that way, where you make a choice that you're not really a normal person. And so you do as much as you can to be the best. They made a choice to be the best at everything yeah you know at like singing dancing um and a show like spectacular show creating a show and they gave up they've both given up a lot and that's why people go crazy i would imagine that's definitely why because you know there's a part of you that's crazy to begin with that believes you can go in

that direction yeah and i think he you know i mean he there there was no parallel to michael the the he's he's like a cappuccino in that he is just this cloud he was watching him dance he was just this like fast moving cloud he was you couldn't even believe it was real yeah sometimes yeah prince was a bit maybe a better technical musician sure and also made hits but like and was like a sexy dancer but Michael Jackson was like also the best dancer yeah he was like the best singer and the best dancer yeah kind of watching him though at like

eight years old when he was dropping Motown hits he's also spinning and moving and singing in ways that were just like super impressive so he had that within him and but just to be like you know what hey i'm gonna like not go on any more dates with like uh uh uh who were brook shield brook shield yeah and i'm gonna like be uh uh huge creep weirdo yeah yeah i'm just gonna be a huge creep yeah you know

untouchable huge creep but he was great at being a huge freak. Huge freak. I wonder, I only got to experience Michael Jackson post I'm being a huge creep. So all of my experiences with him were a little bit shaded by like, oh, why is he, he's definitely got a nose job. He had the weird like Jerry girl. Yeah. Why is he a little, like, why is he like three, four shades lighter than he was? Right. I wonder what it would have been like to experience Michael Jackson. Like rock with you.

As it was happening. Yeah. You're a little older, but you're not that much older. Yeah. Well, Bad, I think, was actually one of the first albums I bought. Yeah. It might have even been the first album I bought. Billie Jean was like 83.

Yeah. Billie Jean was... Exactly. Yeah. It was before that. Yeah. I guess that's true um dangerous yeah no but on billy jean he was uh it was it was pre the pepsi ad that he did which is where his hair got burnt yeah and that was the beginning of his sort of uh descent well he addiction to sort of cosmetic surgery. Interesting. Because he had something done there, and then I think it sort of spiraled from that point. That's what they say. Yeah.

I really would. But I think he always had issues with the way he looked and his nose and, you know. His dad was a maniac. Yeah. Monster. There's no surprise that he had like issues of self. Yeah. Like at this point, though, it's crazy because that he would just be the they would have their own reality show.

Like he's like Dance Moms. He's like the girl. He's the woman from Dance Moms. Yeah. But actually beating the kids and the kids are his kids. Like that was the end. But that would still somehow get a reality show in this. are his kids like that was the and but that would still somehow get a reality show in this theory that uh he thought that he was trying to turn into uh elizabeth taylor slowly trying to

turn into elizabeth taylor yeah it's not it's not the craziest and she could have made my list for masterpieces too yeah yeah right but going back to that song it's also i just like it's a great subject that song oh billy jane yeah yeah like, it's a great subject, that song. Oh, Billie Jean. Yeah. Yeah. It's kind of like. It's a song about groupies, right? Yeah.

It's kind of, there's a dark undertone to it that I kind of like. Oh, that's it. Is it a song about groupies? Is it a song about groupies? That's what he always said. It was like about like groupies that like him and his fellow big musicians were going, the issues they were facing with groupies. Oh, interesting.

Yeah. And then. And then. Girl sang like they'd slept with him, oh interesting yeah and then girl saying like they'd slept with him but they but they hadn't got all those rumors and stuff like that i never got too deep into the lyrics of that one actually i realized she says i am the one it could be about michael jackson denying like like i mean like being somebody's or just musicians being someone's father yeah it's ignoring right yeah you can look at two different ways which also probably yeah

but that riff that beginning riff, that dum-dum-dum-dum-dum-dum-dum-dum-dum-dum-dum-dum-dum. I mean, it's just phenomenal, isn't it? Yeah. And like certain songs, like what's that weekend hit, Can't Feel My Face? That's like basically. Oh, yeah. Oh, and then the other one from that album where he's basically talking about being in love with a stripper. It's also like a Billie Jean song because it is talking about a problematic relationship and hard life, but set to a real funky dance beat.

Right, to a point where you don't realize what you're dancing to. Yeah. I love it. I love that song. Great pick. I love Michael Jackson. What is your fourth pick? Okay.

Jackson. What is your fourth pick? Okay. This is, this is again, I'm going a bit off, off book here, but I'm going to pick as a masterpiece.

The fort I made in the woods with Lucien Holland in the summer of 1987. Fuck you. I hated that fort when it came out. Yeah. I think it has aged well. No, talk to us about this fort. Well, guys. All right.

It was pretty fucking incredible. Yeah. Like, we spent a good week. We were on holiday for a week, and we just, we went to town on this thing. It was made almost in, I mean, it was made out of, you know, wood. Yeah. It was in the in the woods and uh we had sort of lookout shelters it wasn't just a single fort it had these little there were outposts outposts like a real fort would yes how like deep i mean we were we we got this narrative that we got into our heads i mean we were i mean you could say we're paranoid yeah there was a you as kids you would probably

convince yourself there's a chance we might end up living here we are yeah right yeah that's always how i would do it before i'm like this is almost like my house i could live here yeah was there a fear of communists still at that point? Yeah, 100%. Yeah. Yeah. So the nuclear war plays into that as well. I mean, the Red Menace, the Soviet. The Red Menace, yeah. Was slumbering. Yeah. Yeah.

Absolutely. I mean, in Europe, too. But we had, you know, we built like a portcullis. Yeah. With a rope. Really? Yeah. You had a door that was raised like a gated door?

Yeah, like a thing that went down like that. Were you hammering and nailing things? No, we just had like twine. Wow. Were you a Lucian in the Boy Scouts? No, we improvised this. We improvised it. That's amazing.

And then we covered it in leaves, so it had a sort of like camouflage. Yeah. We had a sort of emote type thing. What? For dragons. Yeah. Yeah. For dragons.

How far away from your actual house was this? How far did you have to travel? This was on holiday. Oh. And it was in the woods by the house that we were staying in. Got it. We spent hours and hours and hours and hours on this thing. I mean, guys, if this thing was not a masterpiece of fort building, of wood dwelling fort.

Do you think it still stands? I like to think so. I like to think so. It would be a fun documentary for you to go back and try. It would. It would. Yeah. Do you think you could?

What part of England was it? I don't know. I'd have to do some research. I can't actually remember exactly where it was. We have British listeners. We should let them know. Yeah. But we, yeah, we, let them know yeah but uh we yeah we we

you know yeah it was um it was we got very we we convinced ourselves that we were going to be attacked yeah right you know by who just crowd i think the main thing was grown-ups yeah the grown-ups are coming this This is pretty home alone. Yeah. Who were your building partners? Were they siblings? It was just one friend of mine. One friend.

Yeah. Lucy. Lucian. Lucian. Lucian. Yeah. Got it. And, yeah, like I said, there were little outposts where you could go and sort of uh you you could go and spy further you know if you needed to sort

of see you know further into the woods whether they were coming right people coming did you have any weapons uh yeah kind of swords yeah that was sort of fashioned uh again out of branches i think we had a knife there may have been some like wood people who actually thought you were like setting up an outpost to attack them and they were like building like uh no one ever said the only two people that saw this fort are dead yeah with myself and lucian holland uh we were never attacked as it turned out there's something amazing about not having an iPhone it's rather like the Maginot line it could have just gone around you know

it wasn't really properly attacked it was never tested it was never fully tested but we believed it in its integrity there's a tree from my youth that in my mind must not look there's no way it looks like how it looks in my mind now you know and to not have a photo of that is a great thing because it exists only as it exists in my brain yeah and um that's like you know how old were you at the time

10 or oh yeah 10 you know so like at that point you would probably even have like a phone as a 10 year old you know it should be like i'm gonna take a picture so you have it so it's i i long for that time of childhood imagination yeah only be remembered yeah yeah and you get so into it oh i fucking loved you know yeah i was so if i think about that headspace that you were in as a kid when you're into that, like it's difficult. I mean, do you just want to do? I don't think I do that anymore. No.

Build forts? No, not like build forts, but get into that sense, that drive. Yeah. That particular kind of getting lost in your imagination. Yeah. Everything is heightened. The highs are higher. The lows are lower.

The excitement I would feel building a fort and the disappointment i would feel when my dad wouldn't let me go to blockbuster to rent a video yeah like i'd never been sadder and i've never been happier yeah than those than those feelings yeah but now i mean and now you know if you don't you now i my my the worst part of my day is if like i don't get enough likes on the thing that I put onto the Instagram. I come up with some great Snapchat art. I'm not going to lie. I'm going to throw it out there.

Absolutely. And then some people just don't respond to it. But if I had just made it for myself, I would have been a happy little camper. Yes. You know? Yeah. That's kind of how I treat Instagram. It's just like, I know you're anti-Instagram, Louis, but the way I treat it, I'm just like, I like this.

I'm pro-Instagram. I actually am moving from other, Instagram is now my preferred way of communicating. I would be. Yeah. I don't mind if you're able to use Instagram the right way, but I'm just not disciplined in my idle moments not to become, not to sort of suddenly look at someone's instagram page or whatever you want to call it yeah and becoming this rather unpleasant judgmental bastard i almost never i almost so i spent 10 minutes going wanker wanker that's so funny and the other thing and it just so i think it brings out the worst in me and then i think it brings out the worst in other people which is flagrant narcissism.

Oh, yeah. No, totally. So I just – But that creates beautiful people. Oh, yeah. In a kind of anthropological way. Oh, sure. Yeah, okay.

Out of control. Yeah, no. If you're getting your kicks out of it, fine. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But, I mean, I just – I could go on about this. No, I get it. But I turned it – we were talking about the masterpiece that was your fort. I just do love the idea

that it exists still at this age. All of these years later, you picture it as just this fort palace, which I'm sure that it was. We used to go- I forgot to say we had traps. We built traps. Yeah, we built traps.

I mean, that's amazing. I mean, not dissimilar from what i imagine the uh you know was uh the the vietcong and and i don't know maybe someone is dead people are dead never to be seen again did you have like sharpened sticks no no but we have like dug holes and put leaves over them yeah and no walls walls can get you yeah yeah totally you know yeah yeah and oh and things that you drop like you'd throw the rope over the branch and it would have something that would sort of drop onto somebody got it you let that go i mean that's did were there other forts throughout the like your childhood and that's

the one that's that's the one that was the one that for me that's the masterpiece got it um it was just it was it was quite a complex it was a complex system of rooms as well yeah i mean we had corridors and it was quite big i mean we were 10 this is crazy and uh well i mean truly i think the battle of britain yeah yeah i think there were like about four or five rooms and you know corridors going between them um i don't know what we needed them for well you know no one needs that you never know you never know you never know your family could grow yeah yeah you don't know how that's gonna be yeah you don't know where to keep all of the like china that you're gonna accrue yeah and never use but accrue you need a china room yeah i mean i think i if and if we went on naked and afraid yeah you know i as because of this you know experience you'd be well have you talked about that if we go into us we haven't but i'm in yeah if we i'm good

at swamps so if we end up in a swamp, you can get in on me. Yeah. There was a swamp behind my house growing up. I know my way around a swamp. Yeah. That's interesting. I was alone, neck deep. My mom listens to this, so she might be finding this out for the first time. Neck deep in swamp water, probably around the age of eight, just alone back in the swamp behind my house.

Just like, because it felt good, or you were trying to get turtles and stuff? I was exploring. Just exploring. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Just going into the wilderness. All swamp away. Oh, you were just happy exploring. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Just going into the wilderness. All swamp away. Or you were just happy there. Happy there.

Happy boy. Happy boy in the swamp. This is my most relaxed. I'm at my most relaxed neck deep in a swamp. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's all I knew at the time. Yeah. I didn't know.

Yeah. I didn't know the beautiful Pacific Ocean beaches and everything. Yeah. I guess that's true. I did, but I prefer the swamp. Yeah. Yeah. And I still do in many ways.

Yeah. Don't drain it. Keep it. Don't drain the swamp. Keep it. Don't drain my ways yeah don't drain it don't drain the swamp keep it don't drain my swamp don't drain his swamp i'll never drain your swamp around fill the swamp we had to pause the show so you could drain your swamp give me my swamp time for me to make my fourth pick and i have so many i want to pick and i'm running i know we're doing five totals we're coming to a close here uh with my fourth all right i'm gonna take an actual painting even though i have so many other things i want okay go on it's my favorite painting i'm

going to take uh saturn devours his son by francisco goya oh wow yes i love you do you you know the painting this is yeah i know the painting and i also was thought about picking this painting did Did you really? Yes, because it's insanely affecting. It's so affecting. It's very dark. I can't believe we just started becoming friends. It's very dark.

It's a very dark painting. Have you seen it in the flesh? I have. It's in Madrid. It's in Madrid. It's in the Prado. Which is one of the most amazing art galleries in the world. It really is.

I mean, it's got... It's like the Spanish... The Spanish haven't produced like hundreds of artists but whenever they do they just happen to be the best ever goya yeah goya yeah you know like even that i mean the architecture is amazing it's so visceral and terrifying yeah alaska's in oh yeah uh yeah you got to put the image in the head to the listeners here. Look it up right now. But for those of you who aren't, it's the Greek god Saturn, or I guess the Roman god of Saturn, right? I forget which is which.

But the Greek god. Right, man. Looking insane. Not like a regal god. Just looking like disheveled. Like a crazy person you'd see on the streets. Yeah, like a crazy street person. But he's a giant.

And he's got his son, disembodied head, his arm flesh sticking out of his mouth. And it's almost, it looks like, and this is before this technology existed it looks like he was like sometimes you'll see like wilderness where like a flasher go off and it'll catch like a wild animal it'll look at the flash and it's illuminated in this crazy way but when you see me every time you see me every time i see louis yeah i make an astonished face yeah but like with just true madness and in its eyes yeah like it's sort of an inhuman mad it's just it's very very modern yeah it's so modern but when it's from the 1400s or something like that isn't it like really old i think it's like 1800s yeah yeah okay i think francis bacon is hugely influenced by this by goya well i think yeah but i think that Bacon is hugely influenced by this painting. By Goya?

Well, I think, yeah, but I think that painting is very Bacon-esque. Oh, yeah. It's just, like, I feel like so many things, dark entertainment, dark art is, there's the appeal of it is that um uh i i just think it makes you feel the the real deep terrors that you're trying to avoid at all time and looking at a painting like this especially like back then where you haven't seen any sort of terrors deep terror what deep terrors i find that like i'm full of deep terrors oh we, we're all full of deep terrors. Non-stop. And I think that like with comedy, you're trying to like run away from things sometimes.

You're trying to alleviate things sometimes. You can absolutely click on like great, you know, connecting human emotions. But like I think maybe I just might be more like guided by fear in my life through my like history. Right. So like but I don't know i just i i there it's it's it's a nightmare it's a nightmare on a canvas it's a nightmare yeah it's not something it's it's not something i would ever want in my house i would never want to be left in the same room as that painting for too long no it's terrifying and we see crazier things than that like on the new

you know like we've seen it all. But like, I just imagine the effect that that must have had on people when they were, you know, in the 1800s. So it's a crazy story behind it, too, because Goya at this point, he was like in his 70s. He changed his style. Yeah, he changed his style. He didn't paint like this before. He had a fever that left him deaf. He was living in this house,

and he painted onto the walls of this house he was living in. That's where Saturn Devours His Son was originally painted, up on a fucking wall. Jeez. That was then transferred. It was a mural that was then transferred to canvas. But yeah, it's just like he was crazy. He was painting crazy shit

he was in a dark period of his life and a lot of his other work is is you know after this or around this time was very i mean the his series the um the black paintings well no they're i think they're engravings the it's called the horrors of war or it's a it's a there's a i can't remember how many of them there's about 40 50 engravings all showing the sort of uh yeah the horrors of war yeah and things that i i can't remember what specific war was going on at the time yeah he showed a lot of atrocities um yeah i mean he painted at 1819 1820 i don't know what's going on either but not not peace no it's just a painting there's not a lot else to say but it's just a painting that's so good at conveying a certain feeling yeah i just

think it's the it's a it's it's a masterpiece by a master artist. I'm going to kick Koosh. Can I move on to mine? Yes. Just keep it. Please do it. I was going to do painting, but I'm going to throw out there Guernica by Picasso. That was on my list too. Down the line here.

Is that your fourth pick? That's my fourth pick. Yes. Because, again, it's art that's a game changer. It was a response to bombings of Guernica during the Spanish Civil War. And the bombings were not done by the Spanish. They were done by Hitler. It was the testing grounds. They were testing grounds for the Blitzkrieg.

Absolutely. Absolutely. And it was a fascist shit show descended upon this town. And Picasso was picked to do a painting for the Spanish pavilion at the World Fair. And they wanted him to push it, you know, but not like it's still like it's a World Fair, you know, like it's a mainstream audience. You know, like it's a mainstream audience. And what he came up with was something that no one had ever seen before. It was just kind of the melding of a lot of his like surrealist cubist with like political art, like a political art. And like, and I don't know specifically the verbiage to use here, but it was just, you know, one, it's huge. Two, it's visceral. And three, it just like really like it showed people without it's a

primal scream of a painting it is yeah it yeah just the way the bodies are contorted in it it's amazing the the horse right at the middle yep it's just it it feels like war chaos yeah feels like chaos and horror. Yeah. And by the way, I mean, Picasso is hugely influenced by Goya. I can imagine. The same, like, nightmarish. I mean, they're both, obviously, they're both Spanish.

Yeah, I think he was living in Paris at the time. I think Picasso was kind of, like, not super political, considered very political in a lot of ways. He just wanted to, to like eat fucking paint you know and like uh then you know it's hard and so the spanish civil war is just i mean it really is the like world war ii would not have happened if the if i don't think world war ii would have happened the same way if the fascists had not won if the british had responded uh uh on the side which for interesting reasons why they didn't but if they had sided on sided with like the republicans and the commonists against the fascists like it's it's possible that hitler would have been contained more so than he possibly like he like it was the testing ground for all of the weapons and the fascists kind of started getting away with so much more and once they took spain um fascism was like kind of normalized yeah and

of course italy yeah yeah yeah so but anyway that it's a we're in you know is this my most favorite painting no but as right when if masterpieces is the idea then i think it's kind of uh hard to argue against this giant political but actually i mean funnily enough i mean not to take away anything from this painting it's amazing but picasso is someone who he was incapable of painting a bad painting right i mean he's just there's some people that are like that aren't they that just can't it just seems to just like they're incapable of doing it right just the way he's you know there are some singers who you think about and nat king call yeah louis armstrong or someone you know they just they just they can't do it they just

everything they produce is just all good yeah right um uh so yeah to have yeah exactly i mean the way i mean just like the in absurd looking faces that don't truly at all reflect what people look like but to still capture like that level of anguish yeah like and that's what it's about it's about feeling not not not not reality and what he was able to do with feeling like the woman cradling the child like in her arms in the far left looks I mean it looks like the art level of it is something the technical ability is something you could draw on a notebook at school but like

that's the work of a true genius is that you know. But someone who could draw someone who drew like that at school wouldn't draw this No they never would. Because they would never think to except for a young ian carmel yeah yeah you should see his notebooks it's amazing they're terrifying yeah west west vunica really yeah the uh the massacre of me getting turned down by any girl i showed interest in yes for three years well you had just walked out of a swamp in their defense you were covered in swamp water i learned i learned i was like i bathed in

the swamp yeah very much like a shrek sort of existence for me for a few years in high school yeah you know uh casey it's time for your final pick okay um i you know we haven't done a book yet no i'll do a book and i'm gonna do the great gatsby it's a masterpiece it's a book that i think about all the time i think most comedians at a good level are uh the nick carraway character because they want to be the line from the they want they want the they want to be they want to be within the structure and taken seriously but they also want to be within the structure and taken seriously, but they also want to be on the outside,

viewing it and commenting on it at all times. They also kind of want the big party and don't really want to know. They don't want to admit it. They don't want to admit it, and they don't really want to know where all this cocaine is coming from. But they'll take it. But they'll take it. So I see a lot of myself and comics in general

in that character. And then it's just- Are you saying that they're hypocrites? I'm saying they are to a certain extent, like we are all, yeah, I mean, are all comics hypocrites? No, I'm not going to start for all of them. Am I a hypocrite?

Yes. Yeah, for sure and i and it's that it's that line it's in the book it's in the book it's i was with within and without like i don't simultaneously enchanted and repelled by the exhausting variety of yes that i don't know if it's direct but to me that is the that's life for me and and and that book puts it on the project do i because i'm fascinated let's take hildsberg the fancy thing isn't by the way the the image of the green light which is in the book isn't that um meant to symbolize envy green oh i don't even know and i think that makes a lot of

sense money and all of that you know that idea of yeah yeah i think you know in america we are always wanting more and we and we're allowed to reinvent ourselves and i mean look who is our president is but like i mean like the great gatsby it it's hard to not be just fascinated by all of those characters yeah totally well he's he's a romantic character yeah isn't he he's not just gatsby or nick well gatsby yes absolutely he's not just a um well who's the other character in it that's sort of um well who's the other character in it that's sort of yeah he's a bit of an idiot tom buchanan yeah exactly yeah yeah i mean he's more like the trumps absolutely whereas gatsby has a sort of right right because he's built this thing out of love love yeah so that's what could be more noble in a way that's very true that's very true

and you know she's she doesn't really want love she just wants the idea of it you know so when it actually comes down to like to to to gatsby it it might not work and like like uh uh what was i gonna say too but like um like it's all the way that money works in this society and why you seek it and why you want it and all that it's all played out in that

and it's also the 20s too he's writing it in the 20s where everything was going up up up up up yeah so there wasn't so it was kind of like it predated the depression

I think so like it was but it kind of also like predicted a depression yeah and that this was unsustainable. Yeah. It's very much like...

At least spiritually and mentally. Absolutely, 100%. Yeah. Evelyn Waugh in England, who's... If you've ever read... Oh, yes. Brideshead Revisited. I actually haven't read any of that.

Well, it's a similar... He's almost like a... I always think he's a bit like an English... F. Scott Fitzgerald? Yeah, in a way, it's the same sort of time like bright young things addresses the sort of same sort of uh ideas uh you know about you know this this how far is this um excess and where is it this vacuous excess i mean it always comes crashing down somewhere it always comes crashing down somewhere every every decade we think we just keep going up and

up and up you know um but i just it's also it's i i can reread it because it i reread very few books but it's yeah it's just entertaining it's one of those ones that pops out it's so well written you know it's like a truman capote is the other writer who like you just i you i want to read the words that he i want to read the thing i don't want to pretend to remember a quote i want to just read it as he wrote it yeah and that's and and that book is that yeah it's a bit like um you know uh uh capture in the rye has that thing. It's one of those books that you read every three, you know, sorry, sort of 10 years or something. And you go, oh, my God.

And it means different things for you. It's a fucking masterpiece. It does the things that masterpieces do. Yeah. Oh, it does. Amazing pick. Thank you. is due yeah oh it does uh amazing pick thank you uh equaled perhaps only by my final pick which is vince carter in the 2000 slam dunk contest which i think we can all agree right

there with the great gatsby yeah yeah give me this is this basketball this is basketball okay you got give me the defining dunk because I'm sure I watched it. Back then, I'm sure that I watched it, and I remember Vince Carter being the thing. This is Vince Carter. So here's my argument for it. Vince Carter, the greatest slam dunker in NBA history. Got it. In my opinion. This happened in 2000.

He's still in the NBA right now. He's still in the NBA? He's still in the NBA. How does that work? He's just an amazing athlete. How old is he now? 38? 40. No way. He's like 40. How can he still in the NBA right now. He's still in the NBA? He's still in the NBA. How does that work? He's just an amazing athlete. How old is he now? 38? 40.

No way. He's like 40. How can he be in the NBA with no knees? He's just doing it. Yeah. And he's jumped more than anyone. So like his knee, it's not like he like saved his knees or anything. That's crazy.

He, there's a couple different dunks he did. One is where he jumped up so high that he dunked the ball and then hung from the crook of his, from his elbow. I remember this. And like just hung there for a second. Yeah. And then,

uh, and then sort of like came back to the ground. And there's many reasons why I think it's a masterpiece. One is, and if you'll watch it at home, the way the other people react to vince carter like the other nba stars on the sideline who are all like dressed so year 2000 that it's insane right it's basically the kings of comedy tour it's they look yeah exactly everyone is sort of dressed a little bit like a tall bernie mack got it they're crazy

glasses and like shack is holding like an old camcorder like he's little bit like a tall Bernie Mac. They have crazy glasses. And Shaq is holding an old camcorder. He's on a family vacation. And people are freaking out. And Vince Carter, there's another one that he goes between the legs. Here, I'm going to play some of them right now. He was a Raptor at this point. He was still on the Toronto Raptors. Was Toronto a team? W team weren't they still a new team they were still a fairly new team um yeah there's

shaquille o'neal holding like a crazy uh old camcorder anyway he just did a series of dunks and there's one he does uh towards the end of it god there's got to be a shorter version. Where he... So here's the... Yeah, he starts with a 360. That's one of the most beautiful dunks of all time. Anyway, I can't... Watch the video. I can't...

I'm not going to do a good job of explaining. This is clearly a visual medium. But he does one through his legs and there's the final dunk where he just says, it's over. Like right into the camera. And it is, in my opinion, the most beautiful display of just athleticism.

It's so amazing. It's the only thing that I could never do. I love how – I actually really like basketball. If I'm going to watch a sport, I will watch it. I will not admit to be a big sports fan, but I like basketball. If I'm going to watch a sport, I will watch it. I will not admit to be a big sports fan, but I like basketball. And the dunk is the most American sports move.

Baseball is the most – that's our sport. Football is the most aggressive. But the dunk is the most singular impressive achievement that you can have in American sports, I think. It's individual. Yeah. It's dominant. You're rising higher than everyone else. You're throwing it down. Was there a

competition at that point? Or was he just so... No, it was basically him putting on a show. Obviously, there were other people in the dunk contest like Steve Francis, Tracy McGrady who was his cousin. Actuallyince carter's cousin was in

a dunk contest but uh that's why shack was filming the family uh right it was a little family video but there was no one else who was who was even close to vince carter and the and those dunks it's just beautiful if you set it to like uh like opera music and put it in front of people it could i think it would be considered like the ballet i'm into i'm into it yeah basketball is the is the it's the most athletic sport to watch that's why i like watching it because guys are doing fucking awesome stuff so it's just and that's it's the dunks it's the players reacting on the sideline right in these like over the top almost like yeah themselves like a renaissance painting just like doubling over each other and everything it's just beautiful i don't have a lot more to say

about it check it out if you haven't seen it louis weymouth and it's time for your final pick the final gosh masterpiece draft gosh oh gosh shall i go i'm gonna give you uh um some uh yeah what do you think I should do food I've got a food one you've done pillows Sharon Stone and Basic Instinct Billie Jean by Michael Jackson

and the fort you made in the woods so you don't have a food I could do a food or I could do a computer game oh I'm interested in the computer game what do you think we've had a food we've talked about our cappuccino just do it do what feels most natural to you so do the computer game yeah i mean i okay i think that super mario brothers yes yeah it's a masterpiece i remember as a kid falling asleep hearing my parents who would judge us for playing nintendo yeah playing

the game and giggling and having a time and and kind of like being like am i dreaming that yeah uh so i think it would i think yeah i think it that as if we use masterpiece uh if we use the criteria of like a game changer i mean that was that was the popularization of home gaming, right? And of Italian plumbers. And of Italian plumbers. And it is super weird. That's the fun thing about it that I think goes- It's so weird.

Because it's been so in the mainstream. And it's Japanese. And it's, what have they- You're a Japanese interpretation of two Italian plumbers who crush moving mushrooms and turtles. Just so many turtles have been murdered. Two Italian plumbers as parents who wore overalls. I am very offended that you could choose that.

It is a base interpretation of a complex culture of turtle smashing. You know? And a lot of mushrooms. A lot of mushrooms. A lot of mushrooms. A lot of weird stuff A lot of mushrooms, a lot of weird stuff. Yeah, I mean, it's great. I mean, you know, computer games have gotten very complex since, and they have since lost me. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

You know? I can't, like, my favorite video games, and maybe this is just true of everyone, were the ones that were out when I was like 14, 15, and I was like, this is what games are. I don't know. Everyone now loves the story and the yeah and the art you know i mean it's it's it is kind of crazy i have not latched on to computer games since nintendo 64 um but my favorite was just the early contra was the pinnacle for me and then it all kind of like and then i got i got too uh uh scared also how sweet and innocent the mario brother games were and like it all kind of like and then i got i got too uh uh scared also how sweet and innocent the mario brother games were and like and just sort of that certain tone when they were actually a story about a princess who had been kidnapped by a giant monster right yeah it's kind

of dark yeah but they were like but they were all just it was like fun and all kind of felt low stakes they were so valiant you know and they just were like they're the everyman too you know that's why you connected because they're just a couple of guys, just brothers just trying to do the right thing. Yeah. Also in a world where plumbing and princesses exist at the same time. Right. Probably why it appealed to you.

Because. A subject of the British empire. Well, I thought you were going to say, cause I'm a plumbing princess. You are a plumbing princess. Yeah. Which is the other thing. But it's kind of like, I feel like they're the sort of mickey mouse to to nintendo yeah yeah yeah absolutely absolutely the ground zero their universe is created around

them yeah yeah and and still going you know they're still mario kart they're still putting new mario games out yeah um 30 30 years later everyone loves a plumber it's a job that will never go away people get that it's a good union work did they ever fix the plumbing? very little actual plumbing going on and they go down there too they don't do shit

they just go down there there's always a lot of people trying to kill them if your problem is my plumbing doesn't work because of all these turtles. Right. They do address that issue. They bop a lot of turtles. They shoot some fireballs occasionally.

I didn't think you would need fireballs down below, but sometimes they get clogged up. Yeah. You know? Turtle issues. Yeah. In Japan, the biggest issue was there were so many turtles. Yeah. Remember the film?

The movie was crazy it was bob hoskins yeah absolute gem of an actor and john yeah leguizamo yeah and isn't uh who who else the villain is uh dennis hopper oh my god dennis hopper well that's right that's crazy i can't remember the movie at all kids movie definitely saw it. I can't remember the kids movie. Yeah. Swing and a miss. They were like, you can do Batman and give it a dark Christopher Nolan treatment. Maybe we don't need that. So funny. There should be a remake. Maybe we don't need that for the Super Mario Brothers.

There's going to be a remake. Of the Mario Brothers? I don't know, but I remember Yoshi looked like a raptor from Jurassic Park and that sucked. Yeah. Yoshi's a, well, I should want to hug Yoshi. Basically, it was a Teenage Mut teenage mutant ninja turtles live movie as well it was like it was just like it was never it was too the technology wasn't good enough to make any of that good and also why was that a movie yeah and why was bob hoskins in that movie that's an amazing thing to me um this was obviously

post who framed roger rabbit yeah yeah huge star yeah huge star yeah a lot of credibility all downhill from there yeah you know what i mean uh i i like this choice i do i think it's a masterpiece i think it's like the that's the you put that in the museum because it's the first of the original one you know i literally saw him um at the organ museum of science and industry they had a mario brothers and then remember that movie with fred savage where he I literally saw him at the Oregon Museum of Science and Industry. They had Mario Brothers. And then remember that movie with Fred Savage where he – it was like The Wizard or something like that. Oh, yeah. Where they debuted the Power Glove.

Yeah. And the whole world of gaming competitions and everything, the games that they were playing was Super Mario 3. It was Super Mario 3. It was released. A new game. Right in a movie. Yeah. Also a good game, by the way. Good game. That's where where i think the tanuki suit the first time and you could fly and he you could use there was that

was when nintendo introduced the glove controller thing so there was still all used to this day yeah yeah you know have you seen the king of kong documentary yes yes i I have. That's great too. Did Mario start as a arcade game? I think Mario was in Donkey Kong. He was the good guy in Donkey Kong for the first time. And that was an arcade game. And then it made the leap. Interesting.

Another big problem for plumbers is gorillas throwing barrels. If it's not a gorilla, if it's not a turtle in your pot. I remember once that the guy that invented Donkey Kong was inspired by, he was, if someone who's living in the- The films of Ing- Yeah, yeah, yeah. Surprisingly, it wasn't a King Kong ripoff.

It was actually completely based on- No, it was in New York and the apartment building opposite them, which had those stairs that go down like that. Someone at the top of the building used to have these parties the whole time. And the police used to come and people used to try and get up there and the police... And he used to throw the barrels down that's amazing down the stairs to get rid of people and stuff that seems fake it's it's it seems fake isn't it but i i quite enjoyed it new york used to be a very different place yeah yeah uh we're in 20s i hope it's true yeah

to recap the pics case you let off and you went Pulp Fiction, and then Barack Obama's 2004 convention speech, Beyonce's Formation, Picasso's Guernica, and then The Great Gatsby by F. Scott Fitzgerald. I went with Cappuccino, the Cape Fear episode of The Simpsons, Levi 501 Jeans, Saturn Devours the Sun by Francisco Goya, and Vince Carter in the 2000 Slam Dunk Contest. And then, Louis, you went with Pillows. Sharon Stone, Uncrossing Your Legs with Basic Instinct.

Billie Jean by Michael Jackson. The Fort that you made in the woods with Lucy and Holland in the summer of 1987. And then Super Mario Brothers. Or as my dad would call it, Super Mario Brothers. Super Mario. We left some good ones out. I mean, it's masterpieces. I've got so many

masterpieces. Nachos got so many masterpieces. Nachos. The Nike or Jordan ones. The Jordan one is a beautiful shoe. The Reuben sandwich, which I felt I would have typecast myself a little too much. I was going to do my grandmother's meatballs at one point, but I was like, oh, I shouldn't do something so out of it. But they're our masterpiece. And then after Fort, I was like, I should have just been doing all the meatballs yeah that changed the game picking a fort in itself a masterpiece the live performance of runaway by kanye west at the vmas oh yeah when he's got like the sample machine and

all the ballerinas come out oh yeah that's a masterpiece um i agree i was gonna do everybody hurts to the video so effective i've got a few here i was gonna do ice cream oh yeah so good probably well i don't know yeah yeah i should have done the paper clip the paper clip yeah you can't better that can you with people haven't yet no i was gonna do maybe otis redding's try a little tenderness oh that's good the spitfire the spit i've got two very english ones i was gonna do test cricket but you love cricket but i feel like i'd lose test cricket everyone it would take a long time to explain i heard task cricket and i was like oh is that like a british alice in wonderland thing where you just like... The book. Come on.

You say Alice in Wonderland. Ghostbusters. Speaking of pedophiles. Duck tape. We started with pedophiles? Duck tape. Duck tape. Darth Vader is a villain.

He is a good villain. That's a good villain. And I wrote saying things whilst you burp. While you burp? I love... Yeah. So we've been...'s you know listeners of the podcast will know you are the originator of the term shaklakity shaklakity yeah yeah which i have been using have you to end our shows oh have you just to yell i gave you full credit for it yeah which

is the most fun way you described it i think that's the sound of it of putting a telephone down shaklakity of slamming a telephone which you can't do anymore because we're on cell phones but we've been ending every podcast with shaklakity and i'm wondering if you'll do us the honor of ending it uh so tune in again next week for another brand new episode of all fantasy everything shaklakity That's the good stuff. That was a hate gun podcast.