All Fantasy Everything - Subcultures, Part 1 (w/ Moshe Kasher)

Episode Date: February 1, 2024

Welcome to Feb-new-ary, where we have all new guests for this month.Also, go buy Moshe's new book "Subculture Vulture: A Memoir in Six Scenes" wherever books are sold!Episode Guest:Moshe Kasher (X: @moshekasher, IG: @moshekasher)Support the show!Join the All Fantasy Everything Patreon for ad-free episodes, mailbags, and video pre-rolls.Advertise on AFE!Advertise on All Fantasy Everything via Gumball.fm.Follow the Good Vibes Gang on social media:Ian Karmel @IanKarmel (IG: @IanKarmel)Sean Jordan @SeanSJordan (IG: @SeancougarmelonJordan)David Gborie (IG: @Coolguyjokes87)Isaac K. Lee @IsaacKLee (IG: @IsaacKLee)See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

This is a HeadGum Podcast. We have all new guests in the month of February. The reason why I'm announcing it instead of Ian is because we switched the first two episodes. So we were supposed to have this one come out on the second week. But for reasons you will hear, we have switched the order of these episodes. And the third thing is that we actually ran out of time with Moshe to finish out the draft. So this is going to be a part one of two, and you can look out for part two later. We still haven't recorded it yet, but we will get to that later. But part one is great. So I hope you enjoy. This is all Fantasy Everything, the podcast where we fantasy draft anything and everything from the world of pop culture on today's episode we are drafting subcultures with our guest the stand-up

comedian writer occasion is actor fair to say feel like you don't really act fair to say i thought you know you got a banging acting career when somebody is like, is it fair to say acting? Is it fair to say actor? But we said the same thing to Paul Giamatti, who was on last week, who was on last week doing his Oscar campaign. Most importantly, for right now, I shunned the actor title because author, author now of his second book, Subculture Vulture. Available everywhere. Books are available. Moshe Kasher. Hi, boys. I am your host, Ian Carmel.

And joining me, as always, are my friends and comedians, Sean Jordan and David Borey. Let's get into it. Welcome to another brand new episode of All Fantasy Everything, the second installment of Febnuary, where we have a new guest on, a guest who has never been on All Fantasy Everything before. And today, we have Moshe Kasher. Hello, hello. I'm super excited to be here.

I have wanted to do this for such a long time. Glad to be asked. It's wonderful to have you sitting in front of maybe the most beautiful wallpaper I've ever seen. It's pretty legit. All those machine guns on the wall, that's crazy. Well, I have a gold-plated AK that I won when I won my first UFC fight. And so that's a big one for me, to be honest. Looking like Uday Hussain's bunker right now.

Recording live from Uday Hussain's bunker, Mocha Kasha. It looks great. That would be a twist, wouldn't it? You're like, is actor fair to say? No, but you know what it is? It's Warlord. That looks like uh it looks like frank's booth and scarface it looks great oh yeah i used to have a scarface

poster on my wall like every white youth in oakland was required to do in the early 90s we weren't required in sioux falls but i i had one anyways so it also yes that requirement made its way up the west coast all the way to Beaverton. I'll tell you. It's exactly like, it's exactly like hella. It started in the Bay area and it moved North to find other white boys with identity crisis.

That's right. Did you ever hear the hecka go on when we were there? When I was like, when I was in my teens, we heard kids say hecka and it went deeper than, it went deeper than hecka, Sean. It went into hexa and it went deeper than it went deeper than hecka sean it went into hexa and

hexa d oh no david you must have heard of hexa d it was some church-going youth and the yeah i hate hecka my little brother tried to do it when he was real real little and i had to get him off of it oh no oh you did a hecka intervention yeah i was like we can't be out here i can't have you i can't have you looking like this then Then you did a hockey. In our family, we say hella. That's how it goes down. Yeah, we drop the Ls. It's a hella house. Gee, damn it.

H-E double hockey sticks. Gosh, damn it. We say hecka. Wait, Ian, I did not walk to, and I feel terrible that I cut off what was about to be an unbelievable New Zealander. It was. I knew I could feel it coming,

and I was sad that it went away. Thank you very much. I think the moment for it is gone, but I do appreciate you holding the space for us to just sort of address that moment. We almost had about talking about intervention. Yeah, there we go.

They just did one of those in parliament, New Zealand. So yeah, they did. Yeah. They have a hawk intervention every six months just to make sure the howlies, you think they use that term in New Zealand? Probably not. I thought that was a Hawaiian term. They have a hawk intervention every six months just to make sure. The Howleys?

You think they use that term in New Zealand? Probably not. I thought that was a Hawaiian term. I think that's exclusively Hawaii. Am I a Howley? Yes. Yeah, you and I. You're a Howley.

You're a gringo. You're a wedo. All the bad ones. No, I'm not a wedo. No, take that last one. Oh, you're a big wedo. Big wedo. Sean, somehow you're more of a Howie than me and Ian, though.

Yeah, I'm just going to say it. Just by degrees. I think we all knew that. Yeah, by the holy buckets earlier. Yeah. I don't even know if it's the Jewish thing as much as the Midwestern thing. Yeah, you say Iowa. You're kind of out, bro. Yeah.

Yeah, it's a lot. It's a lot of it. But I'm here for it. I'm a little Midwestern teacup. I'm fine with it. Well, you're here for it. I'm a little Midwestern teacup. I'm fine with it. Well, you're here for it and you're also on social medias at SeanSJordan

on Twitter, SeanCougarmelJordan on Instagram. Where can people see you playing your trade? Sean Jordan Comedy for all the dates. This, what, will be, I'll be in Bend coming up. We'll be in New Orleans. We'll be in Boise.

So yeah, go to the website for all that stuff. And yeah, sign up to the AFE Patreon. Shit going on over there. There's 526 posts. I just looked at it. If you sign up right now, you get 526 things of bonus content. That's worth like 7 to 10 bucks. 10 of them good.

Yeah. There's like 20. And then 510 of them fucking fabulous they'll get you through a drive yeah gotta go to fargo you're good live episodes whatnot david borey is here cool guy jokes 77 on instagram where can people see you i'm actually gonna be in fargo yeah no of course not no i i would do i would play fargo, though. I like Sioux Falls, okay, except for Tommy Jackson. Let's talk about that the whole time. Yeah, Sioux Falls is great, man.

Well, you fucking dropped 20 racks at the Hermes in Sioux Falls, right? That's exactly what I went for. They got those bougie outlets that I liked. We all know what that is, so there's really no reason to dive into it. The Sioux Falls airport has a Hermes Superstore, I heard. Joe Foss. Joe Foss Field, man. Joe Foss pioneered the whole movement in South Dakota.

Hermes did the whole airport. It's one of those jobs where they just did the entire thing. In downtown Sioux Falls, there's a Family Dollar and Hermes, like a Pizza Hut Taco Bell combo. It's like half Family Dollar, half Hermes. Sean, it's H-E-R-M-E-S. I feel like

maybe you've seen that. Sure. And I definitely didn't think it was Hermes so well that's okay if you didn't know there's no reason you wouldn't think that I don't think I've ever seen it I have no idea what you're talking about still so a lot of French fur trappers in that area all you know is I can get it for you by the yard

at a price if you're interested that's right you're a Hermes bootlegger davis i gotta i gotta line on some guys no but i can't get i can't get louis v for cheap so if you're trying to like really you know what i mean yeah if you're trying to wrap some timberlands or something like that yeah i got you if you're trying to wrap some timberlands and louis v go ahead and sign up for the patreon that's's the 528th item. 528th item is a bolt

of cloth of bootleg Louis Vuitton. Three yard minimum. I'm not getting lowballed here. Dapper Dan went legit and left a gap in the market. We're stepping right into it. I got to clear my nut. Three yard minimum, but it's good.

If you want some possum fur loafers, hit us up on the Patreon. We got you covered. We'll talk off mic. Can I get them? Can I get them too? You want those Jordans that Kendrick was wearing? Those fake Jordans? I got a box of them.

All half sizes. No fools. We got Travis Scott. We got Travis Scott and Labrador Retriever leather we got Trevor Scott's and the Cactus Jack don't worry about it I can get anybody a Gucci Labradoodle

if they need one it's a live Labradoodle that's got Gucci print all over it's a very limited edition see that's what I like I like trafficking in live animals that's right coolguyjokes87 on Instagram. Nothing much coming up. Go see the AFV live dates. Watch season two

of Royal Crackers on Adult Swim or Max or wherever you watch that shit. Do people still watch it illegally like that? I don't think so. They watch NBA games illegally. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's the only time I ever watch illegal shit. Without the written consent of the NBA. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's the only time I ever watched illegal shit.

Without the written consent of the NBA. Or even the implied verbal. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Guilty. All that, though. All that, all that. That was one of the great family guy jokes where he was rebroadcasting like an NFL.

Do you have the written consent? Only the implied verbal. Didn't you do that on here one time? Nevermind, nevermind. Joe Mandy's doing it right now let's hang him out to dry he's he's simulcasting the nba and uh i've written oh i did one of those episodes oh you wrote a letter to the nba yeah i'm stitching them out i'm trying to get them i'm trying to get i did i did one of those episodes with him i don't know if you guys

know this but i had a uh what i call a benign midlife crisis after writing the book uh that is out now called Subculture Vulture, I wrote the rave chapter, which is all about my years in the rave scene, promoting and dealing ecstasy and DJing. And it was a fun time. Yeah.

And in writing that chapter, I listened to like 1990s techno mixes the whole time. And at the end of writing that chapter, I thought, you know what? I'm going to have a benign midlife crisis. I don't want to do coke. I'm crisis. I don't want to do coke. I'm sober. I don't want to cheat on my wife.

So I bought a DJ controller and I started DJing again. And Joe had me come to the halftime show and I downloaded every house and techno track called basketball on Beatport. I have over 40 tracks called basketball. And some of them were more riffs on a theme. You know, some of them just had squeaking of sneakers. some of them just said the word basketball a bunch of times or like a diva singing and it was a really good time had by all like yes that song made the cut that made the cut yes that's the top tier song with basketball in the title it's the funniest way to start a song about loving something i mean speaking of subcultures here it's basketball

is my favorite sport and to prove it what's your favorite thing the way they dribble up and down the court i like that it's basketball is my favorite sport what's your name curtis blow nothing else you want to talk about basketball is what you came with all right what i'm obsessed with is basketball but what i'm named after is cocaine that's funny you should bring it up my name is sean basketball and i can't get enough cocaine you know what i'm talking about sean basketball over here with the duffel bags at the party there's plenty of rap songs dedicated to the love of cocaine though so absolutely one to basketball yeah he is motion cash at motion cash on twitter instagram all across platforms are you on tiktok you're selling the book you must be you know i have a human that does my tiktok how's that that's that's that's

amazing there you go classic my age ass tiktok i listen it's not even because i'm better than it it's because i know i'm not and if i open that app my life is gone i'm not gonna raise my child i'll just be so loud dude i have no idea what i'm doing i see videos where I'm like, how are they floating in the middle of that video? I don't know what's going on. I'd love it if I had someone to do my TikTok for me. You got a wife who's a director. I have my wife do it for me. She's a director.

Hire her out, man. Yeah. I feel like it's hard when you hire. I'm so hard basketball. When you hire within the house, it gets tricky. I've learned. Uncut. As we just did that special. Oh the house, it gets tricky. I've learned. Oh, working with family is tricky. Yeah, yeah.

Live in family specifically. Well, yeah. I find working with my family to be rather easy. In fact, I do a podcast with my wife called the MS Honeymoon Podcast. And it's a barrel of laughs. We've never had a single conflict on this podcast. Seems like it's going great. I did a live episode had a i had a beautiful time we went to canard afterwards it was a lovely time had by sad though that's that's uh it it the the file got missing

it's one of those uh ghost episodes that will never exist lost the time which is good because we said just we were we were off the top ropes a lot of really controversial stuff we were into vaccine are you guys before are you guys ready are you guys ready to do the crossover episode that the world has been clamoring for all fantasy everything meets the endless honeymoon we'll have you on absolutely all you have to do is say yes yes we're in that was one yes and two no's okay great yeah i'm not married johnson johnson i in. Sean's in. I'm married, yeah. Moshe Kasher, new book, Subculture Vulture. Give people the spiel, which I'm sure you've done a million times by now.

Well, it's a comedy, it's a history, and it's a memoir. It's kind of the journey through the six subcultures that have created my life. Those are AA and the 12 steps. I went to rehab for the last time when I was 15 years old and was sober, have been sober for 29 years. And I'm not any longer in that world, but it kind of created who I am. The sign language interpreting and deafness, both of my parents, all my half sisters and brothers, cousins, aunts, uncles, everybody in my family's deaf. Only me and my brother can hear. And I spent like 15 years as a sign language interpreter. So it's the story of the deaf people and their journey to liberation and my journey to employment. Hasidic Judaism and Judaism. My dad is a born again Hasidic Jew. And I spent my summer vacations cosplaying as a Hasidic

Jew for six weeks a year while spending the rest of the time in Oakland public schools, listening to Too Short. Then of course, there is the rave scene where I was, like I said, a promoter and a DJ and an ecstasy dealer and all that stuff in the early 90s, which led me to Burning Man. I went to Burning Man for the first time in 1996. I've been, I think last year was 24 times, my 24th Burning Man.

And I used to work there for like 15 years. I was an employee of the festival well into my comedy career. And so I know how the psychedelic sausage is made and then finally of course the world that brings us all together the world of stand-up comedy so each of the segments gets like a little historic rundown literally starting at the beginning like a comedy history of that world and then at a certain point I like enter the world and it becomes about my time in that world.

Sean's working on a similar book. Stitch up. You got one, David? No, I said Sean's working on a similar book. Yeah. Taekwondo and skateboarding. Just about the Judaism part, actually, Sean's writing about. He's covering.

I'm new to the fold. I just got brought in yesterday, but I think I can write a book. I know we are all all kind of uncomfortable with direct praise which is why we go on stage to get it in sort of an indirect way probably no no no no no no i'm taking 2024 i'm taking it straight down the pipe i love it yeah yeah fuck that shit straight to the dome i don't need no second hand tell me i'm great i just want to say uh just on the off chance that any of you aren't super familiar with motion, which I think is probably a scant chance at this point, one of the funniest standup comedians, but also one of the funniest writers.

And for you to take on all these different topics, there's like, this is going to be a fantastic book. And if you're, I mean, we have, we have a few authors on here, but for the,

for the listeners, this is like, go get this one. This is going to be a fantastic read. I can't wait to read it myself. That's very sweet. No, I appreciate it. I'm super proud of this thing. Like, you know, it was like, I went to college and I thought when I got out of college, I was done with like pulling all-nighters with stacks of books and stuff.

And this book like kicked my ass. I had these stacks of research books and like, I did my work on this and it's really funny and really, uh, interesting and people learn a lot, I feel like, but also I feel like, uh, in a way in some parts, it's really emotional too. And, uh, and I'm just super proud of it. I want everybody to read it. Writing a memoir is super hard, but then also having to be like accountable for the history of like, you know, like deaf culture or like Orthodox Judaism is like, man, that's that's a whole other pile on top of it. You must have been like up to your neck in it. I was up to my neck and I was intimidated by the task.

Like it was, you know, you do this kind of stuff long enough and you get to this point where it's like I want to take on something that kind of scares me a little bit. And this project for sure scared me because I like you said, the historical accuracy of this stuff was, I know people are going to come for my ass if I get wrong, what year the man burned early at Burning Man. Uh, sorry. I had to make sure everything was correct, but you know, you guys were like saying like, Oh, Taekwondo and skateboarding, blah, blah, blah. Like that's, I think like, that's to me what the book is now that I look back on it and we'll get into me being a stupid idiot and making funny jokes. But in all sincerity, our age was like the last age where people had an accidental experience of life. Like you went to a taekwondo class one day because your dad sent you there and now you're a taekwondo guy.

And then you go, you see some bad boys doing an ollie and you go, I want to do that. taekwondo guy and then you go you see some bad boys doing an ollie and you go i want to do that and that's you your life becomes this kind of like um uncontrolled magnetic draw and it's it's like a pin i describe it's like pinball you just find you because my worlds that make up my life are like so disparate and weird but they fit together because the connective tissue is me and now with the with the with the internet with tiktok these kids these days, everything is kind of delivered to you. And there's some positive parts to that, of course. But I feel like there's a sad, like, this is almost me saying like a goodbye letter to that kind of accidental experience of being like flung from world to world. So anyway, that's a sincere result.

I have a couple of questions that we'll get into, but I have one question about subcultures i'm excited to bring up when it comes up but i'm gonna look to you let me get let me get my shit out of the way and then we'll start drafting it my name is ian carmel oh wait mosh where can uh people see you on the road or do you want to direct them towards anything in particular this comes out february 8th great i will be uh you will last night was the final um stop on my book tour so you can't see me oh shit we can flip it we can do the first I'd love that I'd love that I

start my I start my book tour January 30th I'm going to Austin to New York to Washington DC Portland San Francisco and Los Angeles you can find all that at MosheKasher.com and then stand up coming up, I'll be in Chicago at the Den Theater and at the Bell House in

Brooklyn. That's in the spring and in May I'll be in the Netflix special festival, whatever at the Troubadour. You can find it all on MosheKasher.com. Beautiful. Yeah, we'll flip this and we'll have heard it by now, Rosebud Baker. But she didn't have anything timely to promote, so let's just

flip that too. She didn't seem to care. Amazing. I love it. by now, Rosebud Baker, but she didn't have anything timely to promote. So let's just flip the two. She didn't seem to care. Amazing. I love it. Thank you, Rosebud. Beautiful. My name is Ian Carmel at Ian Carmel on Twitter, Instagram, TikTok, all those places you can find standup comedians. You can find me on the road.

Now, I guess tonight, this weekend, I will be in Phoenix at the, with these two guys. Oh yeah, come to Phoenix. Come to Phoenix. Tonight. And then where else? this weekend I will be in Phoenix at the, uh, with the, with these two guys. Yeah. Come to Phoenix. Uh, and then, uh, where else? Chicago?

No. Sold out. Just want to brag about that. It so rarely happens. Yeah. Just so rarely happens. Chicago. Nope.

Sold out. Come see, uh, Sean and I at sports drink in new Orleans, Louisiana, March 8th and 9th. You can see me at the punchline in San Francisco, March 13th through the 16th. Very excited.

My favorite club. It's so much fun. It does roll. I love it. I love it. And you know what? Though I am a staunch, staunch conservative, I do still love San Francisco. Stone's throw from behind.

It's a liberal hellscape. I think we can all agree that it's a liberal hellscape. But those crowds, they have broken through the woke barrier and they're able somehow to laugh. There was a comedian that once pretended because he had sold so few tickets that the district attorney had let criminals loose on the streets in San Francisco and all nightlife had ended. And that was a special moment. They don't hang out in San Francisco and all night life had ended. And that was a special moment. Yeah, they don't hang out in San Francisco. Nobody goes out in San Francisco anymore. No, because of the DA's activities. That's right.

It's basically Gotham without Batman San Francisco these days, man. March 23rd, Portland, Oregon, Revolution Hall. Come see me record my special to me. March 21st, Boise. Oh, yeah. And the 21st, we'll be in Boise boise idaho now enough about that oh pre-order my book if now if you're getting books get motions and then go ahead and throw it in a pre-order on mine coming out june 11th t-shirt swim club a memoir and 13 essays about growing

up fat being fat losing weight how fatness is portrayed in culture, specifically about dudes being fat. And then each chapter, my little sister, a clinical psychologist, responds to what I was going through in each of those chapters. Bookshop.org. Now let's draft some subculture, shall we? It's enough about books.

The way we determine the order of this draft is a rollicking game of rock, paper, scissors played between the three of you. And we throw on shoot. Here we go. Rock, paper, scissors, shoot. Oh, David wins. Unnatural victory.

Paper against two scissors. Flying in the face of God. Oh, I see. So the two scissors can't cut paper. That's right. It's the odd man out. That's the way we do it. Now that I have a kid, our scissors are super dull on the whole podcast, so we can't cut paper. That's right. It's the odd man out. That's the way we do it. Now that I have a kid, our scissors are super dull on the whole podcast,

so we can't cut paper with them. Safety scissors. It's a safety scissors situation. They're nice about it. David, I just got to say, I find that hecka unfair. Listen. Heckity?

Hecka. Hexity. Hexity unfair. I'd have recanted if you'd have put that L in. I'd have taken it all back for you. David, as the winner of Rock Paper says, it is incumbent upon you to determine the order of today's draft. But before you do that, I want to remind you and the listeners,

it is a serpentine draft. What is that? It's a good question. I didn't think of one it's uh i forgot it's like it's like scraping your yeah it's like scraping your windshield maybe i scraped my windshield today it's like so you scrape the whole top no it's not like that let's say you got really long arms you scrape the whole it's like washing your fucking windshield you wash you scrub the top and then you squeegee back and then you scrub a little bit farther down, squeege back. And then you go down. Yes, it is. Shut the fuck up.

You don't squeege back like that. Yes, you do. You wash across and you squeege back. That's absolutely how you do it. Unless you've been doing it wrong your whole life. Don't you wash the whole thing and then squeege the whole thing? Squeege the same direction. Let me try to paint a picture. I don't even have a driver's license. I don't know why I'm

coming at you. Also, we're from California, David. We've never had to scrape a windshield in our life. You could try that. Just live in California in the sunshine. You don't have to worry about this. Colorado, though. Colorado.

I've done it. Oh, yeah. You're a Colorado guy. Nobody was coming to the Miracle Whip with a squeegee at the stoplight. It was dirty enough. They just stayed away. If you pick fourth in the first round, you pick first in the second round. That's the way it works. With that in mind, David,

what will the order of today's draft be? I'll go Moshe, me, Sean, Ian. Moshe, David, Sean, Ian, which means Moshe has the first pick, and we're going to get to it right after this short break. This episode of All Fantasy Everything is brought to you by Schedule 35. Now,

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of Subculture Vulture, Moshe Kasher. David has the or Moshe has the first pick. Here we go, Moshe. I got the first pick. You know, I'm tempted to use one of the ones from the book, but in the, how many rounds do I have? Five.

Oh, dang. I could do every single one other than stand-up comedy, which I think we can all agree is a hellscape and no one should choose that. I'll one other than stand-up comedy which i think we can all agree is a hellscape and no one should choose that i never talk about stand-up comedy again listen the only reason that's the only reason i think it's a good section in the book the only reason it's in there is because i feel like people would be like i'm sorry you wrote about five subcultures and you didn't mention stand-up literally the only reason you're able to write this book in the first place so i would rather never talk about it myself it's an interesting subculture for sure it's rough i yeah it is but it's it's rough i'm not picking stand-ups don't pick stand i'm not picking

stand-up it feels like a lot like an old laptop that has too many files on it and the fan turns on too quick like it gets all hot all early you know what i mean like you gotta take its shirt off to enjoy it. Yeah. Maybe it always has. One of the, one of the interesting things about, I'm not picking standup about standup though,

is that in doing the research for this book, there's a great book called the comedians by Cliff Nestor. I read that. There has been, it's so good

because it starts to show you the cyclical, speaking of serpentine, the cyclical nature of these arguments we've been having. Like a hundred years ago, people were talking about racist jokes and punching up. They just didn't have the right as i say in the book

they were talking about punching up even back when they were in that old-timey clean your clock uh irish fighter style of boxing so yeah that book is a great like history of hacks by the way like when i talk about all the people who like the war ended and they were still doing army comedy and you're like oh yeah i know these fucking nerds 100 yeah they uh there's another great great kind of factoid in there that i i took away from it that's in the in my book is this idea of how paranoid stand-ups are about joke thievery i really believe that it comes from the time in stand-up where every single comedian did the same joke.

So we were not original and we weren't artful. That's our baseline. That's where our foundation point is when everybody was doing who's on first. So now, a hundred years later, you got people going, I know for sure that Ian stole my joke because everybody's like paranoid that someone out there in this like

DNA, you know, intergenerational trauma level, someone out there knows like we're an illegitimate art form. Nobody takes us seriously. I'm not picking stand-up comedy. I'm going to choose I'm going to choose Raves just because it's in the book and

it was the greatest time. I don't know what it's like anymore. I don't know for sure if they still have raves or if they're just like weird underage, like Heineken techno and Molly tents at the side. But in the 1990s, when you had to call a phone number to find a British man on a corner to give you a slip of paper to tell you where the rave was an hour up the freeway on a beach somewhere. And you would you would drive there and you would land and you would see a thousand kids on a beach.

That was the time. Absolutely. That was the time of my life. I pick raves. That was the funnest I've ever had. It seems like a blast, man. I went to one at the VFW in Sioux Falls. That was their version of a rape.

But at the VFW, though. Yeah. Or the KC Hall. One of them. One of those like where old dudes go places. But and it seems so fun. I never got to go to a real one. Why?

Why was it not real? Well, maybe I maybe it was just so it felt so tiny. But I mean, it was like music. We all had glow sticks on my nunchucks, which was pretty sick. Yeah. And I heard that it was Iowa, though, too. So they were also spinning ears of corn. Is that correct?

Isn't glow sticks on my nunchucks a riffraff song? It's one of his new songs. So much ice, I got brain freeze. I'll tell you, one of the first raves I ever went to, raves are not for everybody. One of the first raves I ever went to, I was at an AA meeting one night. I had gotten fully, I mean, the thing for me was I went to a party, my first rave. I didn't know anything about it. I found a ticket.

It was a huge party. So I was able to buy a ticket on Ticketmaster and I went by myself and I had like a full molecular reconfiguration of my identity. They used to call me Fila. That was my nickname. You can kind of do the math yourself why they would call me Fila. I got rid of all the Fila gear. I bought all the like ridiculous JNCO jeans and candy bracelets and barrettes and sprinkled glitter in my hair. and barrettes and sprinkled glitter in my hair. I just had like a full identity reconfiguration. And I went to this AA meeting one night and this guy, Casey, who was like newly sober, super just like regular salt of the earth type of dude. He's like, I was like, I'm going to this rave after the meeting tonight. You want to come? We drive out to this party in San Francisco and he walks in and it was like 1995 and it's a full underground party.

Like everybody, like people are naked. People have their heads fully in the speakers. There's, you know, the spiritual altars and people are glow sticking. And, and, and I disappeared. I was like, bye Casey. And I like went into the chill room and like jumped into a, what they called a cuddle puddle, which is just a pretty bad name, but it's a, it's when everybody would be like a little too high on whatever respective drug they were on, they would kind of

congeal in the, in the chill rooms. And I like, I'm sober, but I like dove in and started swimming around in that, like congealed, like blob of humanity, massaging people and, and meeting new friends. And then Casey comes in and I could see him. He's like scared. He's like Moshe. And I like, you know, move the butt cheek of the person underneath. I go, Casey, I'm down here. I'm the, yeah, I'm down here. I'm the one with the right next to the Kermit, the frog pacifier girl. Yeah, that's me. And he goes, I'm out of here. And he took off. And I realized at that point, raves were not for everybody. Was it like a switch flipping? Like when you walked into one for the first time, like how quickly did you know

you were like in the right place? I can tell you that when I was in the line, this is how dramatic the switch was. When I was in the line to that first party, I used to wear Escape by Calvin Klein. Is anybody else

from my exact demographic? Now we're speaking my language a little bit. I was a Michael Jordan cologne guy. Now I can smell where you're stepping in you know what you smell like ian i was a blow guy to be honest david let me just say if you were going to go to a rave especially a current day rave with a scent i would say dabbing cocaine behind your earlobes would be a more seductive and attractive scent than Escape by Calvin Klein. I would say, if you're trying to attract people, that is a scent that will work.

Just on the pulse points. I had this bottle of Escape cologne. I remember it was in my bag. I brought like a travel bag. I had no idea what to expect. I was just like wannabe gangster Scarface on my wall type of dude. That was like my only universe

was like West Coast gangster rap and like other white boys with deep identity. We will talk about that more later. It will come up. Well, I thought about, I did think about doing the seventh subculture

in the book, which is white kids who think they're black. And I just thought, I don't think there's an appetite for that book right now. And it did not, it did not make sense. Yeah.

That's okay. It's also its own. It's also its own series of books. I think I made the right decision. I think I made the right decision. Yes. So I had this bottle of escape cologne. I'm in the line.

And I remember I grabbed that. It was a full size bottle. And I stuffed it into a sop because I was like, I don't know what's waiting for me in there. Like, I don't know what kind of enemies I might. Like you're going to beat the shit out of someone with it. Like you were going to. Yes. Like, yes.

I was making like a little a little like the potpourri scented blackjack just in case, you know. So that's the mind. That was the mind I had in the line. Right. I'm like, just in case you never know? So that's the mind. That was the mind I had in the line. Right. I'm like, just in case you never know, my ops might be in there. And, um, and I got into the party and immediately I walked into the main room, my mind like, and I'm sober. I'm nine months sober at this point. Like I'm not on drugs, but I didn't need to be. I was as high as anybody else there because I walked in and the music and the lasers and the throbbing entity of that crowd,

I remember I put that bag with my weapon inside of it on the ground and just walked in. I never saw the weapon again. Your weapon to get laid is what it was. I just like disappeared into the crowd and I started, like, here's the thing about being like a wannabe is where you're, you will really figure out whether or not you are white when people start dancing and you don't know how, you know, you're, you're kind of like two left feet will betray you. So I would at like school dances in Oakland, I would kind of like sit up against the wall and try to look cool or like maybe do what I call the, the booty,

the booty grab slow dance. That was a, the middle school dance where you would like, Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. You remember where you would kind of like very tremblingly, like almost touch the ass of the part where you were dancing with,

they'd grab your hands and pull it. Just the top. Just like right when it starts to cascade into cheeks. God bless you. Or the hips. You can work the perimeter. You can like, you just can't get on the bump. You can get down on the like way down well you'd be you'd be so close you'd be

like you'd be a just a split second a millisecond away from fully grabbing the butt and the and the girl you were dancing with would be like nope and she would sense it and pull your hands back so that was sort of like all i ever did for dancing and at at this party, I walked into that party. I started fucking, Fila started pirouetting. I mean, I was like, I was moving in the air.

I was dancing. I was, I was spinning around. And, and then this, this gay couple came up to me and they both walked up on either side of me. They grabbed me by my hips. They were trying to do the booty grab slow dance as well. And they picked me up into the air too

strangers picked me up in the air and they looked up and they go you dance beautifully and i was like i was so i was like what are these who are these what are they touching on me grabbing on me they don't know me when they let me down i'll show them who i really am and they let me down and i grabbed them and pulled them towards me and i kissed both of them on the cheek. And I said, you guys do too. And I disappeared into the crowd. I mean, it was overnight. They don't even know how close they were to a sock full of cologne, dude. They could smoke like a pack of cools. That was like your rave baptism. They like picked you up and dropped you back to the floor. A new person. Yeah. that's awesome. A baptism is the correct way to describe it. It was, I was fully baptized and born again in a new world.

And not only that, but it was, you know, I had this terrible ass childhood where, you know, it was all filled with like weird violence and going to mental hospitals and rehab and arrest and all this crazy shit when i got to the raves everybody there was like dressed like a eight-year-old they're all wearing like silly ass goofy fucking cat in the hat hats and and and wearing candy jewelry and pacifiers i was gonna bring up the pacifiers the pacifier i remember the pacifiers being huge was that no i had those even at like my middle school. You know what I mean? People just rock one of those. Like kids, like the hardest kids in school

would walk around with a pacifier around their neck. Part of Boys in the Hood and part of the rave shit, I think, but the pacifiers got our. Yeah, was it Boys in the Hood or was it Menace to Society? Were you? Oh, yeah. The pacifier in the rave thing was specifically because when you would take molly you would grind your teeth and so people would have something an oral thing to put into their

mouth in order that they wouldn't grind their teeth into little rave nubs right but i was for decades i've been wondering that decades yeah well that's why they did it at raves but i was clean and sober so i got a pacifier just because of how cool it looked you wanted you wanted an overbite too so you're like i'm gonna work on that with a pacifier was there anyone making adult pacifiers at that point or were you just like buying them specifically for kids and trying to find the one that matched your vibe the most you would go to like a baby's r us and you would ask them for a deep deep throat uh pacifiers you'd say yeah for people with elongated throats they had a special section my five-year-old can't stop with

the pacifier i need like a i need a bushel or whatever you get pacifiers in you know no they were baby pacifiers mine had tweety bird on it i remember that well and i wore it to raves and i put a fucking monkey sock like puppet on my hand I would bring it to parties and I would dance around with a monkey puppet. And it's so ridiculous. And raves are so ridiculous. Like I'm not, I'm not unaware of how stupid raves are, but for me, they were exactly what I needed. I needed this like second childhood, even though there were drugs and sex everywhere

you turned, it was also like so innocent. And it like gave me this like, like yeah this childhood baptism to get a second chance at a childhood which is exactly what i needed when i want it i'm just picturing you with a sock puppet like i'm sober you can't get a read on me i got a sock full of cologne and then you sold so you were sober but you were selling ecstasy or did you were you taking ecstasy as well or were you just selling it i mean listen you're gonna take my rave uh street cred my my rave card away i've never done ecstasy but i was an ecstasy dealer uh basically that's kind of dealer i'll tell you what is that well i did not

get high off my own supply i almost feel like it's a more pure kind of like a raver right you don't even need the ecstasy for it. Not that you people need the ecstasy. I'm not trying to step on. I think people do. I mean, honestly, MDMA and, and electronic music, the rave world, they are inextricably linked, like without one another, the thing doesn't exist. I mean, the music exists, but the scene doesn't exist without that. You know, I say like MDMA was like the epidural for the rave baby to come into the world. Like it was a necessary cocktail mix.

It was that music and those times and that drug is what made raves raves. I didn't do it because I was sober, but I started throwing raves for this dude in San Francisco and he was like a kind of a bit of a con man and you guys ever get into a situation where you've been hustled over like years has that ever happened anybody on this podcast yeah but i don't think so oh yeah no i did not mean i think we're getting in it no i i'm trying to think less of business wise but like

no i i can't think of i was paying residuals or i was paying a commission on residuals for like several years and i found out that not everyone was doing that but uh that was as close as i got i feel like you got to get hustled one time in your life to be able to like be savvy enough not to get hustled again and i've hustled many yeah i've gotten hustled so many times. You got to learn that lesson over and over and over again. Specifically buying and selling drugs. Yeah.

That's what it happens. I had so many dudes be like, no, this is what weed looks like. And I'm like, Oh word. And then, you know,

there's a beautiful aspirational optimism that comes with the man that wants drugs so badly. He's willing to believe that the guy that left him with the backpack full of stuff is going to be right back. You wait an hour. You wait two hours. And finally, you open up the back. You're like, he wouldn't rob me. Peg Leg wouldn't rob me. And then you open up the backpack and it's just tin cans and river stones and like just like empty hot dog wrappers

those are those are the best guys though the nicest guys and they show it to you and then you're walking down the street like hell yeah and you're like when did he switch it when did he switch it on me my friend raul yeah he got it when did he do that to me he let me smell it that to me he said that was his son in the car. The Wiccan priest, Raul, sold me a backpack full of Riverstone? Raul did me dirty. Fucking grabbed me. How did that?

Take that name out, Isaac. I'm still afraid of her. She went by. Yeah, that's no good. She's a girl. I got people in my life. I got people in no good. She's a girl. I got people in my life. I got people in my life.

I'm still scared of, I'm at 44 years old. I still, every time I go back to Oakland, I'm still like, I just hope that I don't run into so-and-so. Like I still get my ass kicked. Still wants to kill me.

I can still get beat up. I see this guy in Sioux Falls. When I go back sometimes he's just at the bar and I'm like, I still got this beef from when we were 12. It wasn't even real beef. He, he came over and slapped me and punched me. He shouldn't be upset anymore, but he still wants to finish the job.

Like he wants to kill me. I've written the speech for when I run into the guy. If I, I know the speech. I'm going to stop him and I'm going to say, I'm so glad I saw you. That's my opening line. I'm so glad I saw you. Yeah. I'm so glad I saw you. That's my opening line. I'm so glad I saw you.

Yeah. I'm so glad I saw you. That's a great opening. And then I go into this whole spiel about how when I wrote my first book, I was blah, blah, blah. I was writing from my own perspective. And I forgot that the people I was writing about were real people. And you being upset, me hearing about you being upset.

And this is true, by the way. This is sincere. You being upset reminded me that I was writing about real human beings and it was a mistake. And I apologize. And I hope that he doesn't get the shit out of me. That's interesting because I have read your first book and there was a specificity to it where it was like, yeah, there are people who are going to feel that. You know what I mean? Like, yeah, I assume you changed the names or whatever.

But the specificity of it is just like there was little things like when you were hanging out with that old guy rip it up or whatever i was like i know yeah i was like i know that guy and i would not like in my life he would be pissed if i wrote that book you know what i mean you forget that you're the people listen to this stuff like i've even doing this i've had people come at me like hey some of those things you're saying like they're really specific and they really happened and you're saying i'm like it's nothing it's like yeah you're right yeah no ian here's a warning to you my thing was i'm like nobody in my life is gonna read a book these people don't read books no way no they've never read a book they all read the book everybody will read a book that they're in if they're in it

they're reading it and they will find out and and and yes i had people people and it's it's a bad demographic too because you think about like the nope they're not going to read a book you know why they're not going to read a book because they went to jail well actually they got books in jail but anyway they were in prison yeah they got books i'm i'm over here like with my quill like oh let me turn my history into the comedy memoir and then they're fucking in jail reading the book going i'm going to kill that guy when i get out so anyway staring up at the ceiling like this motherfucker put my name on it no way you forget there was that thing there's that whole uh line that goes around like uh you like other people don't own your story. You know what I mean?

Or like, you don't owe anybody out. Like whatever that like sentiment is. It's like, well, you don't owe anyone else. Like no one else owns your story, but it is good to consider how they're going to feel about it.

Yeah. They can hit you with a sock full of cologne. Run up on you from behind on the streets. I mean, that was careful with names that was the problem there's gonna be people who know what i was careful with names when i was writing t-shirt swim club but there's gonna be people who still know and it was like don't mean shit yeah names don't mean shit i now in the second book i'm changing race i'm changing i'm changing i'm

putting false i swear to god i'm putting a false identity in there like i put in details about certain people where i'm like he had a tattoo covering his back lie lie because and there's the only reason that it's in there is so that that person doesn't read it and be able to go you motherfucker that was me i don't want any of that in my life yeah that makes sense that's good to know get cashier in the ride all right you're picking up i'm just picturing man, Moshe and I were up in a hot air balloon doing tons of cocaine one time, but I don't have a tattoo on my back. So that can't be me. He's got to be talking about something else. My point was, and I know we got to move on with the draft.

My point was, I was working for this rave promoter for like three years doing like 100 hour a week, like hard labor, like installations. Because I want to be the king. That's a thing that I've noticed in all these worlds. Like I want to like own it. I have like main character syndrome. And the minute I get into something and fall in love with it, I want to like enter it and become a professional

or a king or royalty or something. And the problem with that is every time you do that, you start to sour that magic, that baptism starts to become soured and you start to go, this thing kind of sucks. Like how everybody's talking about with standup. Like we all love standup

because we've gotten so far past that line of professionalism. Now you go, oh, but it also sucks. But when you were on the other side of it, when you were a young comedian, yeah, you knew it sucked not to be respected, but all you wanted was a fucking brass ring. And you knew that if you

grabbed it you would be whole and cared for and your life would be different and then you grab it the minute you grab you're like this fucking ring this is what i was after anyway and you're like oh there's another there's another brass ring up there i gotta grab now you know what i mean where you're like oh and then you grab that one and there's like oh shit there's a higher brass ring that that analogy is literally in the book. And I say like the ladder goes forever. And somewhere way up the ladder is Brad Pitt staring at Timothy Chalamet's shoes, wondering how he got lapped.

Like that's just the way it is. But anyway, in the rave world, this guy was hustling me. And I was like three years into working for him and he never paid me. I was like getting pimped basically. And finally said to him i go look i've been throwing raves for you i've been your like number one man that's how he got me you'll be my right hand man and i'm like i've been your right hand man but i feel like i'm your bottom bitch actually still getting taken care of yeah no i was no i literally was like being a bottom literally was like being a bottom. It was like he would like buy me dinner and he would get me into the rave

and let me DJ. But I never like got a paycheck. And I finally confronted him and he said, listen, things are a little tight. I can't pay you for the labor you've been doing, but I can let you in

on my little side hustle, which is that you can start selling ecstasy for me. And so that's how, like two years sober, I became a clean and sober ecstasy dealer standing at the front of every party that I threw, just like an open air market going, E, E, you need an E? And then I'd see somebody from the AA meeting because people from AA go to meetings, raves

too. And I go, E, E, E, Gads, Brian, nice to see you from the Wednesday night meeting. I remember you. Get on in there. Have a good time. That's amazing. Raves, excellent first pick. David Borey, your first subculture.

It's far darker than Raves. We'll get dark, I'm sure. You took the sub literally. I'm taking gambling. Oh, yeah. Oh, wow. It's just like... Well, that casino life. Well, that's where it started. It was like a thing that was not a part of my life at all. I did not grow up. I didn't even like for fun. And then I was so broke. You know what I mean? Like kind of bordering on homeless. And then when I got to San Francisco, I got a job at the casino. And then all of a sudden it's just like, you meet all these people and that's their thing. And then you start gambling and then it's just like infiltrates your life in so many different ways. And it's like, but it's so fun. I mean, it's not great, obviously, but it's like some of the most fun I've had in my life for like dice games, horse tracks, card games, on a boat, on a plane.

You know what I mean? It's like it's because it becomes this thing where it's just like you see somebody else who has that, especially dice, because it can break out anywhere. I won $150 at my friend's giving a month ago. You know what I mean? Gambling. It's just like you have to find someone. It's like finding other people with regular drugs. You know what I mean? Gambling. It's just like, it's just, you have to find someone. It's like, it's like finding other people with regular drugs. You know what I mean?

I remember when we did that show in San Francisco, you dipped into, you know, like at the end of the night, you like started a dice game with your buddies at that bar. Oh, that was so fun. At Milk. I probably gambled for 50 hours there at that exact corner. And it was like at a time it was like, which is not great, but it was like really supplementing my income. I remember one year I remember one year to get into Bridgetown. I didn't have any money for to submit the video. And I had gambled all night and won all this money.

And then my bio was David Borey won the money to submit to this festival and an all night dice game. And that was the year I didn't get in, which is like, come on. Yeah. Come on, tell a story. You think on bio, on bio alone, on bio alone, you think you should be able to be submitted. I'm saying. And it's yeah, it's not, it's not great. And it's like, there are, I have seen it at levels where it's like very scary in situations where it's

like when the money runs up and you start to be like, oh, this is not, this is, I like, you know, cause a lot of times it'll start nice and then it'll get sinister. Like I've had it where we started gambling at the bar and then we went to somebody's house and now you're at somebody's house that you don't know. And now it's four o'clock in the morning and you're four neighborhoods over from your neighborhood yeah you know what i mean and then it's like and once you run up i've never heard of it i've never heard of a dice game going bad though everyone keeps their like it's pretty mean it's a peaceful community it's a notoriously notoriously a safe way to camp luckily i've never been in a dice game that got robbed or anything like that.

I have had it where I left and I heard afterwards, but never because it's like once because that's how it starts. Right. It starts fun and cute. And then by the end of the night, if just by virtue of you've been playing all night, now you're playing. I would have it where I didn't have money. I lived on a couch. You know what I mean? I have no money, but I just won that night. So now it's four o'clock in the morning and I'm playing $100 hands. Damn.

You know what I mean? You ever push the couch into the center and say, I'll put the couch up. Just let me get one more roll. Here's my bet. This is it. I got my EBT card. This is hot stamps too

so you can go in the burger king this thing's ethan allen baby that's i'm giving you yeah it's worth my house my little my house up yeah it's it's worth it no i it's just it but it is just an interesting thing and you and now it's crazy because it's so much more widespread than it ever has been oh you know what i mean yeah is that true yeah it's gambling bigger than it it's all on the phones and apps now it's like right right right sports betting used to be even for me sports betting was like very fringe because it's like you have to have a bookie and you have to like but now's like, everybody I know is parlaying. You know what I mean? Everybody plays parlays.

Everybody, everybody, everybody sports bets. And that's like crazy. Go ahead. A dice game is really, a dice game is really interesting to me because it's like a, it's a party where one person is slowly getting into a worse and worse mood over the course of the party. And one person's getting into a worse and worse mood over the course of the party. And one person's getting into a better and better mood. So like,

yeah, it goes bad because the dude that was really happy at the, at 8 PM at 4 AM, he can't pay his rent that month and he's going to fucking kill you. Yeah. And it becomes this thing where it's like, you start to see, you start to see who has a problem really quickly.

Like, because sometimes it would be a legit party, but then this guy just got paid and he came with all his money and dice is funny because there's no rules so i how many arguments have you seen where people swear they've never seen anybody shoot dice like you you know what i'm saying i don't know where you're from i don't know what the fuck this you know what i mean it's like but we all play it like this it's just like a very interesting it's just like a very interesting world and luckily i've never i know i've never gone down too bad but because of it but i have seen some funny shit never had a tux in you though right you were like addicted to gambling you just liked it i just needed to stretch dough and it would be

like an easy way to and sometimes so i had a friend who had a lot of money and liked to gamble and it would be like, he would like, he would front me money because we would start at that same bar. He would front me money because he was also the bartender and sold blow. But he was like, yeah, if you guys are in the corner having a fun time at this dice game,

it makes people want to come in. And then people would come in and you'd see a guy who was like on a date with his girl and you could tell he didn't really know how to play dice and you'd be like come on and you'd like get him to come in and then you take all his money and then ultimately my buddy had more money than everybody so he'd rob the house at the end of the night like all right now we're playing and we play like crazier and crazier games like it would start out as craps or 1-4-24, and then you're playing threes and, like, deuces loose and all these games that don't even fucking make,

it's just to make a bunch of money. It's like, it's a weird scene. I don't know any of that stuff. I don't know any of those games. Yeah, I don't know any of that. I know craps, and I know that if you're really, like, CeeLo, though, you know CeeLo, right? It's the same as craps pretty much.

I know about CeeLo. CeeLo was, like, an CeeLo, right? It's the same as Cross pretty much. I know about CeeLo. CeeLo was like an East Coast thing, right? Yeah, it's like a New York game. Yeah. Yeah, all I know is that when I would roll dice, I would snap at the end. And that, to me, signified that I was from the streets. That's a tip.

That's a tip. Also, if you roll dice- If you snap at the end- Also, if you roll quickly. Roll it, snap it, grab it. Yeah, none of this. Roll it, snap it, grab it. Roll it, snap it, grab it. And that's the other thing. I just can't say it's going to snatch her 20s if you don't keep rolling.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And you got to get in on the next one, and then your side bets get all fucked up. What are the politics of leaving the game? That's a good question. Complicated, man. It's just like. You can't just grab your money and go. No, not when it's lower. You can, but when it gets higher, people get hurt about that.

You know what I mean? Or they buy like they want to win their money back. Like you got to give me a chance. And that's a lot of the problem of it is you got, and that's a problem of it for me is like, I would get staked to get in a lot of times. So I would ultimately, I've had nights where I've won like $500 and then left with like 40 bucks, but I came with no money.

Still made 40 bucks. Speaking of the subculture of it all, I remember now that you're talking about it, David, that there was like a, there was a patter to it as well. There was like a rhyme patter to crap specifically. Did you ever play like that? Where like the guy shooting, if he was like a charismatic patter to crap specifically do you did you ever play like that where like the guy shooting if he was like a charismatic wacky enough guy would have like a little phrase at the end of every roll oh yeah rolled you know yeah different seven seven we're going straight to heaven yeah new shoes new shoes little little joe is two twos for a four shit like

that that's right little joe is that why it says little joe in good day yeah backdoor little joe is yeah and then like naturals and shit like that it's like a whole there is a whole rhythm there's a rhythm to the game because it's like especially craps is like fast it's like fast as fuck and that's why there's so much like that's why there's so much conflict a lot of times because it's like and there's side bets and shit like that. So it's like me and you are betting, but I'm also betting most of that. I'm going to hit a natural, you know what I mean? So it's like,

there's a lot of money going on and there's like, it's like, that's why there's a speed to it. But yeah, good, good time. Nothing bad ever happened. I remember one more detail and I don't know if this is normal or is this the

guy that I used to shoot craps with? He had the pattern. Like everybody did the pattern and we would all try to mimic the kind of og that actually knew what he was doing but this guy every time he would roll he wouldn't just snap i remember now he would go yeah every time he would roll the dice and then snap and then he would do his little pad it was like it was honestly kind of a performance a little bit no i mean different and different gambling sounds different like when i worked in the And then he would do his little pat. It was like, it was honestly kind of a performance a little bit. You got to put on a show, get the people something, entertain the people. No, I mean, different gambling sounds different. Like when I worked in the casino, it was like all Chinese people. And they just have like noises that they make that are like,

ay-ya, or like, hak-chai, hak-chai, hak-chai. It's like bad luck and shit like that. Like, it's just like, there's a noise to all. Like, if you ever play like double hand poker, you just hear people say weird shit. Come, come, come, come, come, come. Like, 50-50 split the pot. They develop, like, a language.

Yeah, it's crazy. It's a crazy, crazy thing. But also very people, people, it's bad. When I got to college, Texas Hold'em was like, that was like when it was blown up. Like, rounder. But also just like the World series of poker on ESPN. And I supplement, like I made all my extra money in college just from being patient in

those games. Cause everyone else was like a hormonal. Yeah. I was also a hormonal 18 year old. They were getting drunk, but I would just like, I'm like, I'm happy to be here. I'll just be patient. Poker's not gambling. That's a skill game.

That's just a skill set. That's just a skill set. Might as well work at MIT. But you would just end up with all the money because if you never got impatient, go all in. Because again, there was politics to leaving a game. You were just like, no, we're staying until one person wins it all.

And then you would just have the stack of cash from being patient. Speaking of Chinese and luck, where's this riff going to go, you wonder? No, it won't be terrible this is an interesting factoid i heard that chinese um people uh gambling is a big part of chinese culture and luck is a big part of chinese culture and the mgm grand originally when they built the mgm grand the entrance to it was like a like a story tall um lion's head that you would walk through. That probably cost some $5 million

to build this gigantic mega archway that was a lion's mouth you would crawl into. And the Chinese gamblers were like, that's bad luck. We're not walking through a lion's mouth in order to go gamble. And they are such big fish in that world that they deconstructed the entire lion and made a new entrance

so that they wouldn't keep people away lion and made a new entrance so that they wouldn't keep people away. I believe give me a door. Chinese gambling is like a whole nother thing. We would have guys cause it was like my casino was right next to the airport. So we would have guys who would come to SFO from Macau and then just come to Joe's go under the back rat table, buy out the whole table, paying like $10,000 a hand, play for five, six hours, and then get back on a plane and go to Macau. And then they would come to Milk Bar

and they would grab some dice and go like, Yeah! Yeah! All the way down the ladder. Going all the way down. Also, a lot of racist stuff. A lot of guys saying, Obama, you live in Oakland, Obama? But, you know, complicated.

It's complicated. Oh, really? Complicated. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. You live in Oakland, Obama. Oh, yeah. It was like me and two other black dudes worked there.

Alvin and this guy, G. Bro. And all of us always, you live in Oakland, Obama. Obama. Obama. And like, but they believe in that luck shit. So, like, man, if they be on a hot streak, I would see people. Some people, there was a couple times a woman would period on her seat because it's like, if you're hot, you don't want to go to the bathroom or nothing like that.

Like people would be in there for days stinking. They'd have to kick people out and tell them to go take a shower and shit like that. Like really wild, wild scene. I had a friend. I had a friend. i had a friend i had a friend this is a sad story but i had a friend who we all bought tickets to go see uh the pride uh fighting championships it's like a japanese ufc yeah yeah it was the last ever pride event and we all flew to vegas on this big like boys trip to go watch the fights but he had had a, he had a gambling problem. And we got to Vegas on like Friday night, uh, Friday afternoon. And he walked to the poker tables and he sat down and we all went and had dinner. And like, we were just waiting for this big event on Saturday night.

And we went, we went and we gambled a little bit. Cause none of us really liked it that much. We ate and we saw a show and we went to bed and we got up the next day and we came to get breakfast and he was still sitting there at the table. And then we were like, are you OK, dude? And he's like, I'm good. I'm good. I'm good. And then we went out.

We had a whole day. We got lunch. We walked the strip. We went shopping. We came back. He was still there. And then it was like 6 PM. We're like, hey, man, we're going to the Pride event.

And he turned. I swear to God, he turned. He goes, no, to be honest, I'm not really into fighting. I don't like violence. I'm not. And he tried to do a performance where he hadn't come to Vegas. So we got a ticket for him. He was like, no, I'm, you know, truth is, ethically, ethically, I just have an issue with the private fighters.

He didn't come. I actually wanted to talk to you guys about that at the end of the show. He stayed on the table the whole time. Oh, man. Christ. He didn't come we found some uh somebody else gave them the ticket and we all flew home and he like just it was it was sad it's that shit's brutal too i remember i would like i would leave on my i'd have

my day off for two days off in a row and you'd come back and you'd see some people there wearing the same clothes where you're like oh shit you've just been living on cigarettes and pie gal poker for two days and like three gins an hour just keeping that pace going although some of them they don't drink at all right a lot of those like uh hardcore gamblers or they keep like a whiskey let the ice cubes melt well i mean because but like at least the aj's used to give you drink for free if you're gambling yeah because they want to get you all liquor that's the only reason I like gambling I'll tell you what uh what do you like for your first pick there Sean Jordan uh skateboarding skater culture yeah sure I mean that classic I fell it was March 27 1996 I got my very first board as a Willie Santos slick cannonball run

graphic venture featherlight trucks with the black axles 45 millimeter lemon drop wheels and it was like immediate I went I stepped on a board baby bombed a hill a driveway but I fell hit my head but I was like that's it and I quit doing everything I was doing up until that point that I think we'll talk about later

and I was just like I really haven't changed at all I've calmed down less as far as partying goes but I'm the same as I was just like, I really haven't changed at all. I've calmed down less as far as partying goes, but I'm the same as I was that day from then on. Sean, that feeling of like what you just described that like, this is it. To me, that's, I'm back in sincere world. To me, that is my experience of like the magic moments in my life have been those moments of walking into a world and going, I, this is my world. It's been hidden from me. I describe it as like, you know, Harry Potter and Narnia and all these books where there's like a weak, there's a weak kid who's like

a nerd and an outcast and an isolated kid. And then all of a sudden someone reveals to them, actually you're super powerful. You, you haven powerful. You have superpowers that you didn't know about, like just walk through this door. And that is the feeling of stumbling into your world that I wrote about in this book. And it's the most powerful feeling in the world to me. It's my favorite feeling. It's comfortable. It makes me feel like I always have something. I've always had that thing. I have friends in every city. I have known, I'm almost crying. I've known the people that I know to this day, I've known for over 30 years. And most people can't say that. They can't say they have

50 people they've known for 30 years. And I can't. And we're... I'm as close with them as I am with any of my family. And it's all skateboarding. And people... They simplify it where they're like, oh, it's... Even skateboarders are like, just from riding a toy, but it's not. It's just that thing that you find whatever it is. For me, that was it. And I've had moments where I didn't skate as much. Like when I lived in LA, I only skated like two times in four years. Now I skate almost, you know, three, four times a week. Did you really not skate that often in LA? I did. I remember our driveway one time. Yeah. But I remember across the street from like now one of the most popular like uh yeah there's a great park on chevy chase yeah yeah well yeah we lived yeah

there's places all over the place in the high school right it's like no one now right yeah i i love what you're talking about like that that is you know that there's this book called sapiens where you already talks about you're it's a pretty great book. And his main, his main premise is like what makes human beings, homo sapiens different than all the other animal kingdom is our ability to create these sort of identities, these kind of almost fictions that we say, I am, I am in your tribe. I am of you. And like that, what you have with skateboarding is so beautiful. And like what David has with that guy that said, Obama, Obama. It'll cross over into this world. Discover this tribe.

It crosses over into this world more often than you'd think. Like I was at the skate park the other day and this dude, Mike came up and he goes, Hey, my buddy on the East coast, he's a real big fan of a podcast that you're on. And he said it with a question mark. And I was like, he goes, I don't even know how he knows who you are. But I was like, yeah, it's awesome, man. Thank you. So Mike's boy, thank you for listening. But yeah, it's the one thing that I can always, I know I have.

And comedy, you know, unfortunately, to a lesser extent is the same way. I mean, that's how I know everyone I know. Skateboarding and comedy are the two things where, you know, that's how i mean ian and david are like my family i mean i you know and i wouldn't know them if i didn't do stand-up so it's like that same thing but with skating i've just been doing more of a philosopher just to be clear about that i just want to sort of stay the fuck you're a modern day philosopher modern day philosopher my time yeah okay my time kind of a for cult for cult type anyway skating i mean we beat it we beat it to death on here but uh yeah that's My time. Yeah. Okay. My time. Kind of a Foucault type. Anyway, skating.

I mean, we beat it. We beat it to death on here. But yeah, that's obviously I will be grateful till the day that I die. If I was a tattoo person, I'd have tattoos of skateboards. I don't. So favorite all time skater. It's tough, man. I thought it was Sean Malto. It's if I like gun to my head it's gonna be Eric Costin

all he's just through and through or like Andrew Reynolds because they're old now and they still can just do anything in the mid it would be like a Sean Malto he's probably 30 something I mean there's I love Trent McClung I mean it changes all

the time I see Costin in my neighborhood I know you do. Probably Mike Carroll, too. I think he lives over there, too, anyway. Favorite all-time part. Favorite all-time gambler? Kenny Loggins? Little Joe. Little Joe. Kenny Loggins. Little Joe's gotta be the guy.

I prefer Kenny Log off, dude. The analog version of Kenny Loggins. Kenny Loggins gambled on a lot of theme songs, I'll tell you that. They paid off. And a whole album about Winnie the Pooh. Favorite video part, I think you said. Most of the time, it's Tom Penny and High Five. I don't know why I mentioned

Kenny Loggins. That was going to be my second draft round. I don't know why I... I'm thinking you mean Kenny Rogers for the gambler. But yeah, Kenny Loggins. Yeah, that is what I mean. That is what I mean. You're right.

And you know, that kind of wisdom can only be given from somebody that spent 30 years in the skate community. Yeah, dude, that's just, that's just four wheels. She clacking on a dude,

King of the Hill. When Hank gets drunk and he's like, play the gambler to some metal man. Anyway, skateboarding, skateboarding. Yeah. This episode of All Fantasy Everything Is brought to you by Babbel

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time for those things that I want, that self-care stuff. I like to walk a lot. I know that sounds ridiculous. And I don't know what fun means, but I do like walking. I love to skateboard, but it's hard. I got to drive to the park. I got to get warmed up, which takes your boy a gentleman's half hour these days because these gams ain't what they used to be. But I know that's what makes me happy. And it's hard to make time for it. When you feel like you don't have any time for yourself, it can weigh on you more than anything else. Non-negotiables like therapy are more important than ever in that situation. You need to set time.

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But we're all getting so personal that I guess I gotta go. I got a few of those too, but yeah. I gotta reach on the shelf and call for my own experiences, though. It's a little embarrassing, though. Isn't that one of the wonderful things about subcultures? Do it, dude. I know what you're going to do. Speaking of those sparks that you feel when all of a sudden, Moshe, kind of like that

Harry Potter thing you were talking about. It's also that feeling where it's like, oh, all these things that like happen inside me, all these things that I'm good at and I've never really had any place to put them. And then you find yourself somewhere and it clicks and you're like, oh, this, I can do this. I needed, I was in Portland State University, like preparing to be like a, I wanted to be a sports journalist or something. You know what I mean?

I had no idea, but I knew I needed an arts credit to graduate, probably a dentist. And I was looking at what, like what I could do to the arts credits. There were like art history classes and those seem hard. There was like theater classes, painting. I was like, all that seems tough. And my uncle was teaching the intro to improv class at Portland state

university. And I was like, Oh, my uncle teaches it. There's probably not going to be any homework because you have to make everything up. And I walked into that class and within three minutes of like doing the warm-ups i was like oh this like this is what i'm supposed to be doing like one of the the strongest i've ever felt that in my entire life more than

anything else more than like anything else i went until i got to stand up but i was like this is what i'm supposed to be doing this and i was like good at it immediately and like i to stand up. But I was like, this is what I'm supposed to be doing this. And I was like, good at it immediately. And like, I put stand up in the same, in the same boat. I think it's one, it's one magical world you stepped into. Yeah.

And I was getting, I was getting like affirmation from people immediately. And I was like, Oh, this, Oh no. Like this is, I mean,

actually I didn't say, Oh no. I was like, Oh yeah. I wasn't wary of like how dangerous that like getting approval from strangers by making them laugh could end up being but it was just like this feels fucking amazing and this thing that i was just doing with buddies now all of a sudden i'm doing into this room full of strangers they're all laughing at me the professor's laughing the ta's laughing and

then like that took me on you know i did improv for like three or four years before i ever did stand up like i moved to la i lived in like i found roommates ended up living in south central so i could take groundlings classes working at a pf changs and torrents like didn't know a soul down here i didn't know a soul i was you know working at the dello del amo fashion center pf changs probably serving isa Isaac some fucking Get it. Some of that miso sea bass or whatever. And it just like, it took over my life and it like ruined it in the most beautiful way. Like it ruined whatever plans I had and like chucked those

in the garbage. And I ended up leaving it behind because it was hard in Portland to find people. Because once I did the two groundless classes, I moved back to Portland. Cause it was going to be like a year wait to get into the writing lab. And I was like, I can't just be here in LA without anywhere to put my creativity. Cause there weren't like, I, you know, there wasn't, if you wanted to do improv and start a group, you couldn't like

go put on a show somewhere. I didn't know anyone here. Nobody was going to come do it. So I moved back to Portland and nobody in Portland took improv as seriously as I did because again they wanted to be dentists that makes sense and I found stand up but it like nothing else just completely took over my life when you're good at it too that helps like right away

if you're good at the thing that flips the switch that even more nurtures it where you're like oh man this is dope and I'm good at it that's like what are you gonna do it's this feeling like all of a sudden you turn around and you walked through a gate and you're in a new universe like all of a sudden the world has reconfigured itself around you and you go oh i live in a different dimension and i've discovered this thing that is true that is imminently true like, I think we all kind of have that feeling on stage. Hopefully that's the thing that keeps you going.

Like what else is there? You gotta have that. You're not, you're not like I'm a master, but you're like, oh, I have the ability for this to be something that belongs to me that can kind of change my life. And that, that feeling is like, it's like Matt, it's the closest you get to magic. It's like, oh, I stepped through a dimensional portal. Like I am a different human being.

Oh, I'm a member of the fucking, you know, it's like Guardians of the Galaxy. I'm in the Guardians of the Galaxy and I thought I was a regular boy. I'm not. It is. Sorry, go ahead, Sean.

It's fun to grow up and not, I remember when I was young, I'd be like, why are they so into that? Like if people were just into young, I'd be like, why are they so into that? Like if people were just into something, I'd be like, really, what's fun about that. But if everybody can find this feeling, I don't care how they find it. What, however you find it, it makes me so happy that people have those communities and they can find it because it's amazing. And I want it for everybody. That was one of those things that was nice about improv

is that like, you don't stand up to a degree, especially once you get to LA, like everybody's hustling pretty hard. You know what I mean? mean everybody is like and when i was in portland the fact that the other improvisers weren't hustling that hard bummed me out but there was also something nice about truly doing it for the love of the game the ceiling for like a lot of these people was like that show we did last night at the clinton street theater where a people came like, can you believe it? You're like, yeah, that is amazing. And that for them, that's the ceiling. And then they have a job in marketing the next day. And that's, you know, they do that.

And there was also something beautiful about that, like little community thing. Most people, I mean, most people who do standup don't make a living at it or, you know, at least a good one. Dude, I remember, I remember the first time, the feeling I got the first time someone asked me to do a gig and I asked her how much she paid and she said $250. Dog.

I couldn't believe it. I remember that shit. I got more exhilaration from that feeling, like I'm going to be paid to do this, than I have selling shows to networks. Yeah. That feeling, I was just like 250 for for me like i couldn't it like for these ideas these stupid little things like it's just crazy where you're just like it's yeah it's bananas man i remember

you're like you all right i'll take it you fucking moron yeah give me them green bags well you you know you're listening you're tempted to say uh how lucky we are to have found figured out this hustle but in fact like it's not luck in any way it's like it's all that grinding all that free grinding and all that discovery of your pop your superpower like yeah it's not for nothing that you find yourself in those situations it's for all the work that you do and for a little bit of fairy dust, kind of like gambling luck magic, like don't walk through the lion's mouth kind of magic. Like you walked into that improv class. Like I think about that a lot and that's all through

this book. Like if you hadn't walked into that improv class, if for some reason a cute girl had said, oh, I'm doing like a history symposium. You might be in a different universe. You might be a dentist and you know, you might be literally in it. Like my thing in the is I started stand up because I was doing a semester abroad and the semester got cut short because of an international incident that was occurring. And I just had nothing to do. I was like, had three months where I had no, nothing, nothing to do. I was like, had three months where I had nothing to do. So I decided to fly to New York and hang out because I got out of school like three months early

and Chelsea Peretti was there and I'd grown up with her in Oakland. And she was like, I do stand up now. And I was like, what is, what, what? Like, what do you mean by that? Because that's like, doesn't feel like a thing you can do. Like before you do it, you're like, nobody does that. Yeah, Eddie Murphy does that, I think. And that's kind of kind of it you know like I was not a kid that was like I will always uh be a

stand-up you know what I was a kid I I would have said I want to be a writer and so when I opened the box of my books last night and realized I had written two books and that that's in the past tense I got very emotional because I was like I just I can't believe that that thing that I manifested when I was a kid is real about me. You're doing it. Chelsea was doing stand-up and she's like, yeah, I go, you do, how can you do stand-up? How can a person do stand-up? You're a girl.

You're a guy. No, no, no. More like you're a human. You're a real person. Yeah, you're a person. I know. Truly, truly. And she took me, because i think of women as humans

and david that's the difference between the two of us okay back then like now you could google like open mics uh milwaukee or whatever it is you live back then it was like you had to know somebody or you had to like know where it was happening you had to ask around totally the first five seven years of stand-up that i did it when people who looked like i did said i just like they would go you go i do stand-up they go what you mean you're a dj no no no i just stand up yeah stand up there stand up like that doesn't make sense like people that look like now every now stand-up is the djing of the early 2000s. A hundred percent, yeah. Everybody's doing it in their basement. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yeah, you're required to do it. Like, your Twitter bio has to be like, you know, UN attache to the Secretary General, think tank operator, and stand-up comedian. You must do comedy. But so Chelsea took me to a show that night. I saw Sarah Silverman and Patrice O'Neill and I and I was like

I didn't know who either of them were and I with Patrice I only thing I remember is Patrice making fun of Michael J. Fox's Parkinson's and I was like what is this? cold-blooded well it's cold-blooded but it was

probably hilarious because i had already been writing i'd been writing already i've been writing these like long-form dramatic monologues in like in college so i thought like maybe i'll be a monologist i didn't know what i wanted to be and then seeing patrice do that in such a yeah like you said like cold-blooded like profane actually so funny that you thought spalding gray was more like reasonable career path than stand-up comedians but you know what you're saying like looking at that go oh you can just do this for funny like nothing else like patrice wasn't up there trying to like make me emote he was like finding the funniest i just it like like short-circuited me then the next night chelsea was doing the show. Yeah.

And so I went and saw a person I knew that she killed. I go, whoa, those two weird gods that I've never heard of just did that. And then this human being is doing, I go, I think I can maybe try this. Yeah. And I said to her, when you come to the Bay Area in, this was in June. I said, when you come in August, I'll have written five minutes of material. Will you take me to an open mic? And so she came and we did. And I started doing standup. And now

here I am, like the second book, I got my daughters in school and my wife is a standup. Like if I hadn't had my semester canceled that year, if I hadn't stayed in touch with Chelsea, if I had all these little, like sort of tiny little dimensional things needed to occur in order for me to have the life that I have now and be talking to you guys right now. And like, that's that journey, that kind of weird, you were on a path you didn't know you were on this whole time is like, to me, truly the theme of my book. Where was your first open mic? I just have to, I'm just really curious. Luggage store, luggage store gallery. Tony Sparks, of course, was the man that introduced me at my

first open mic and and like i said like it wasn't like i got up there and demolished but i got up there and i did and i i was funny enough to go let's do one more i always tell people to put this thing together shout out to tony i the brainwash was my first mic also at tony sparks baby i remember the brainwash tony sparks they had that good show i, right? I'm thinking somewhere else. Sorry. And by the way, speaking of Tony Sparks, there's a Tony Sparks in every

community. And those people are like our you know, the lighthouse keepers on this journey that we're on. These people that grab you in the very early stages of your stand-up and say like you're good enough to keep going like without tony i might be it might not i might not have continued as well

without a guy going like i'm your cheerleader i got yours might have been like exactly paradise or lonnie bruin those would have been ours yeah yeah well i mean going back to that kismet thing which is so weird and like the magic of subcultures like your wife natasha was the first person i ever opened for helium but going back even before that one of the reasons i like when i was doing improv and stand-up at the same time for a while the very first bridgetown i ever did i only did improv the second bridgetown i ever did i remember i got put on a show at the hawthorne theater i don't remember who else was on it but but you were on it. It was like, I was by far the youngest worst comedian on it.

I think you were like the next youngest comedian on the show. And they were like, then there were two other really great comedians. And I remember getting off stage after my set and you took me aside and told, you were like, hey man, that was really funny.

That was good. And like, you know, you were from out of town. I was like, you were fucking hilarious. And like, that was one of the things where I was like, you were fucking hilarious. And like, that was one of the things where I was like, I think I might stop doing improv.

I think I might just like throw myself into this completely. But that's one of those like crazy, like kismet moments where you were like, just that, how much that means to get that, like those little benchmarks. Totally. To have that like comedian you respect tell you you're funny is like so massive.

I remember that set dude and i was being fake i'm from i had moved to la it wasn't good you learned i was just too impromptu i don't know if it was good i didn't watch it i was being fake i did not see it i was being fake no no i remember always but i i and i i love that i love that that i was that i and you're that for somebody else and david and sean like everybody's been that for someone where you go you you know you acknowledge me those moments are so like big because you have such a uh imposter syndrome i did in stand up for such a long time yeah yeah well you're not funny. Me too. I appreciate it. One of these days, I'll be funny.

It's not imposter syndrome. It's not imposter syndrome at all. You're not an imposter. You just got imposter. Yeah. I own a house. It's built on laughs. It's not a syndrome, man.

You are not welcome here. Yeah, yeah. Psych. Yeah, psych. Oh, thanks, bro. Yeah, yeah. Psych. Yeah, psych. Oh, thanks, bro. Yeah, thinking about being there for someone else is the trip where you're like, where you're just like, man, I will talk about it later. But a rapper one time stopped and said, like, gave me like said hi and took a photo with me one time and it meant the world to me. And anytime somebody wants to take a photo or anything, if it shocks me when that happens.

But of course, it's always going to happen because that one person took the time. And I was like, Oh, if that did that for me, if I can ever do that for anyone, it, first of all,

it's insane. But second of all, it'll always happen. I will never not do that. Totally. I'm going to make my second pick now. Uh, yeah.

It's almost like we've all picked standup comedy. That can be because we are going to talk and all that shit up top. I was like, Oh, fuck about that. Yeah. That can be, because we are going to... Yeah, talking all that shit up top. Yeah, I know. Fuck about that shit. That shit is played, bro. I don't know. We're all like, what is this? Is this just a journey?

I didn't know who I was until I stepped on that stage. It's my turn. It's my turn. We're all smoking. I think about a story that Maren told about us. Episode 63 of WTF. My second pick is going to be something that dominated my middle school years and my early high school years.

Jacking off. Are you serious? Oh, man. I think that's just culture all that is is playing dice where something fun happens at the end no matter what that's what I call little Joe

he's jacking off again how do you know he's doing the dice thing I wish 7 come 11 I know it's massively multiplayer online role playing games. MMO RPGs. That's good. Specifically for me, this game called Ultima Online. Yeah. Sucked me in.

I remember my like, I always loved video games growing up. You know, I was like, I was a little fat kid. Like I was, you know, you didn't need to be a little fat kid to enjoy video games, but I especially enjoyed video games. It helped. It definitely helped. You know what I mean? It was like I wasn't on the A team at Rec League Basketball,

but I was on the A team at fucking Goldeneye. You know what I mean? You can find me giving everybody the business. But when my brother brought this game home, it was like immersive, and you got to be whoever it was you wanted to be. You got to create your own identity. And I got like heavily into the role playing aspect of it.

I was like in a community of people who like role play. You were a dom. I was a dom. I was. Is that your name? Dom? I was a ranger. I named myself.

I swear to God, this is true. I was a ranger. I named myself. I swear to God, this is true. I named myself Antonio Montana. Because I had seen Scarface. Scarface, baby. Because I had seen Scarface. You want to play? Yeah.

And then I got into it. And I started building this character up. And I got into it too far where I was like, people are like from Scarface. And I was like, yeah, but I'm playing a ranger. And I wrote and like I did this thing where I left off the H's. So I typed like I had a Cockney accent, even though my name was Antonio Montana. You could be whoever you wanted

to be. Whoever you wanted to be. And I was like, I got Antonio Montana's over there. We were on ICQ, which was this like early messaging app where you would like message each other and like you would go, oh, every time you got a message and you were like communicating and you had this whole community i like became friends with people who lived like in other parts of the country of all ages like crazy age i saw boobs for the first time because like there was this either this dude pretending to be a woman but i don't think it was because I ended up like talking to her in like, uh, in, in real life where she like sent me a picture of her

boobs. You saw actual boobs or you saw the numbers eight, zero, zero, nine, five. That's all I needed. No, she sent you a picture of actual boobs. Yeah. Uh, was there a face in that picture? Yes. Oh, yeah.

Still got it. Still got it. No, no, no. Oh yeah. Do you still got it? Still got it? No, no, no. Do you still have it? No, no, no, no, no. Hold on, I'll share it. I'll put it in the chat. No, that's like 16 computers ago.

I have no idea. But you had it for a minute. I had it for a while. It meant the junkie was a couple. Dude, you stay alive long enough and strange things will start to happen in that realm you know like you ever you ever uh you're catching a nice um uh jerk off subculture when you don't but you don't have porn i call it like jerking off pioneer style you just have to like use your memory you have to

go like go through your memories of lovers oh yeah you're kind of going you're like flicking through a different and then i mind jacking i had that happen Yeah. I did that. And all of a sudden an image came into my mind and I realized, oh, she's, she's dead. Yeah. Yes. That's happened to me. I'm so glad somebody said that. That is the great.

That's called ghost jack. Were you pulling the book off the shelf, blow off the dust? And it's like, oh, no, it's a ghost story. Then you're in a moral quandary where you're like, well, I'm gonna finish. Out of respect for the day. Honoring the memory. I mean, I only think about my wife, so

that's just me. I'm just a married guy thinking about my wife. That's beautiful. Well, you're looking at her. You're standing with at the front of the bed. What are we having for dinner? No, Sean's making eye contact, but he's rolling back and forth because he's on a skateboard the whole time. It's a busy living room sometimes.

Moshe, were you going to say they say you die twice when you actually die? Yeah, they say you die twice. Your physical death and the last time someone jerks off to you. Damn. How far do you think that goes? Let's say you died, your physical death and the last time someone jerks off to you. Damn. How far do you think that goes? Let's say you died tomorrow. How many years do you think to the last person who jerks off in your memory is? That depends.

That's like a tough. I do wonder about that. It's a very curious. It depends on how old you are. Out there somewhere, maybe someone is thinking of you when they mask. That's kind of a beautiful idea. Yeah, it's good. It's probably true. I doubt it.

Do you think? No, that's crazy, Sean. I doubt it. Someone's jacking off to you, Sean. Someone's jacking off. Just by the nature of the size of this platform, someone's jacking off to you. They might even be on the Zoom right now, buddy. I just blacked out.

They might even be jacking off on the Zoom right now. Isaac, turn your camera on. You can't see the bottom of your hand. I'm doing it right now. You are? Oh, my God. That's exactly what I'm doing. Yeah, there we go. Keep your camera on.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That feels really racial with the talk of the Chinese people back then. But all right. Isaac, you're Korean. South Korea and China are different, Isaac.

I know that. But do you? Get him in. Some people, man. Yeah. Ultima Online. I don't want to get too far. The woman who sent me her boobs, I was probably 15.

She was in her... 60s, dude. 20s, 30s? Come on, man. Let's not put that on that. Let's not put that on that. Awesome. This is a window into my brain is when I first heard about,

I think it was, what's the first one everquest is that right everquest was after ultima online but or no maybe it was okay so when i heard about everquest and i heard people losing their lives to it you know like getting sucked into it and never i my first thought was oh i gotta try got to try that. Like I heard I've lost my life to it. And I was like, that sounds like my kind of thing. I should get into that. I lost my life to it.

I like earnestly. And I was in school, which was bad. I missed like they, when I was leaving middle school, graduating from middle school, whatever word you want to say, they tried to put me in remedial classes as a freshman.

Cause my grades in middle school are so bad. Cause I was so swallowed up by this game. Cause that just this toxic like it's it's those years for identity for anyone are so bad and so confusing and so scary like even the people who are popular in middle school shit's not going great so if all of a sudden you're presented with this world where you can craft your own identity and be whoever it is you want to be, rather than coming to terms with who it is you actually are and working on that person. Like it fucked me up. I loved it, but it was also like it fucked me up. I think I got my weight problem got much, much worse because of it.

And I think also my identity, my schoolwork, all that stuff. Luckily, I recovered. But yeah, they wanted to put me in the catapult was the program. my schoolwork, all that stuff. Luckily I recovered, but yeah, they wanted to put me in the catapult was the program. I have a friend who we all know, a comedian who one of his childhood best friends disappeared for like, Oh, this is a good detail. He went to medical school. He was a doctor, but then he could finally got out and his parents were like off his back. Cause he had gone to medical school and was like, great. I got, I'm a doctor. Bye. And went into a multiplayer online game, disappeared for like three years, didn't practice medicine, disappeared for like

three years, four years. All of a sudden he popped back out and they were all like, he's back. Our friend is back. And because he had fallen in love with a woman in the world. And then the person had revealed that he had been catfished and it was a man. So he popped out and was like, talk like I can't do it anymore. And he came back and they're like, yeah, you're back. You're back.

And then six months later, he just sort of disappeared again. And I don't think they even know where he is. He's just in there somewhere. And that's crazy. He's a doctor. He is a doctor. A doctor.

That's wild. Well, I guess technically. Sean Jordan. I'm going to go ahead and say the underground hip-hop scene. Oh. Facique.

Obviously, all the Snoop and Dre and Tupac absolutely defined me. Big underground artists. No, they defined me. But then as soon as I heard Atmosphere for the first time and then some of the other groups like... You need a white guy to be like, this is my language. As soon as I heard somebody look like me do it.

Something's different about this guy. Something's different. I don't know what it is. It's the way he carries himself. He didn't feel like a magical superpower until just now. I feel safe with him. I could be a rapper. This guy gets me.

From old skate videos with like Souls of Mischief and like Black Sheep and all like just all of it. It just like immediately. Roz Kaz. Just you're saying the least white rappers possible. You know, Sage Francis, Idea, Brother Ali. Professor Griff. Sister Soulja. You know, just all.

Oh, my God. It all made me feel like part of a community in the same way. Very skateboard adjacent, but like you could go to these shows and it was a bunch of people. You're like crammed in some Morton building somewhere in the middle of South Dakota. Or like we'd go to Mankato or sometimes go all the way up to Minneapolis or like some college town. And you just, there'd be people would rap for eight people. college town and you just there'd be people would rap for eight people i saw idea brother ali in atmosphere do a show for eight people one time at a upstairs of a bar in vermillion south dakota and they did the same show they would do i would later see them all do for like 10 000 people

so that like directly informed my outlook on stand-up where i never complain about how many people are there if you're there you're there, you're there. Thank you for coming. It's never a fuck you. Why didn't you bring your friends? I hate that shit. I complain privately. I don't complain at the crowd. Oh man, behind closed doors,

they can all fucking take a long walk up a short pier, bud. But you know, out front, I'm just saying, it's like, it's just one of those things that made me feel like I was part of something again. And just, it was like, I don't know, it felt like a little more nuanced than Tupac. Not saying I don't love Tupac, but it just felt a little more like, OK, no, you see the root. Because, again, those people are those gods. You're like, well, they're born from the skull of another god.

Like, it seems impossible that they exist. And then you do see like you see MF Doom and you're like, my God, this is this is what I'm talking about. Or like Aes asap another white guy asap rock but i mean just this but like i mean the thing of it being like a white guy which like we joke about but you're like oh they're people using this to actually like atmosphere is probably talking about things that you could relate to in real life running out of gas in minnesota yeah i mean you grew up in minnesota that's uh at least it connected more directly to your life rather than like the metaphor the feelings of like what some of those bigger rap which you of course you could connect to you

could connect to like shit that like tupac was talking about basically the same way but in a more zoomed in way you could be like oh yeah like the events happening i can relate to tupac because my my mama was a black queen mama yeah yeah. Kelly Jordan's not. Did that riff feel worth it? Please cut it out. You gotta allow people to feel how they feel about things. You gotta put up shots.

You mean when you riff and it bombs, you gotta allow people to not like the riff? You gotta sit in it. Now that whole, just that whole, I don't know, the whole vibe of vibe of it i still i try as much as i can i still will sometimes if i'm like really juiced at a festival or something i'll put on like some old i don't know souls of mischief gets brought up a lot like or like hieroglyphics like old it's just fun it'll get you going in the right way oh yeah they're oh dude i fuck who are

some of those this isn't exactly underground but i was getting my hair cut yesterday and i was telling the girl that was cutting it she's not young she was probably 29 30 years old uh like who i listened to when i was a kid i don't know how it came out because she'd gone to like the uh the uh i heart radio festival or it was always like you know pop punk hits of the of the 90s and 2000s and I was like oh I didn't listen to that I mostly listened to hip-hop when I was really young you know all this west coast gangster rap stuff but then I was like I was into some other more positive stuff and I said De La Soul and she's like oh who's that I go oh oh that's crazy and

it's partially you know hey people are young but i think it's actually day lot in particular their whole catalog was missing for like 15 years so it's a lot of people that could have transmitted could have transmitted that information of who they were it's there was no transmission to be at and they're kind of like they've just disappeared from people's memories in that way if they had been on spotify do you know how many fucking three feet high and rising t-shirts or urban outfitters would have sold? Yeah. Endless that like their their whole aesthetic was very like aligned with what kids are wearing now. Come on. Yeah, because it was interesting.

It was interesting like that, that De La and stuff became the big hits of the of the version of, you know know they were the they were the more mainstream version of that like sort of positive thoughtful kind of hip-hop stuff and then it kind of disappeared into bling money and and and then kind of came back in this generation this generation has that again on you know on like the kendrick thing and like i think that's interesting that it kind of blipped out for a while, like mainstream, but underground roots. Rap kind of a little decadent. There really is to that.

Well, a little more money to throw around. It was money. There was a lot of Moet. It was a lot of Moet. I like the big money. Give me a shiny suit. I'm going to a DD party.

Yeah. Underground rap. There we go. And you're a rapper, so you're like native to the subculture. I'm on Spotify, baby. You know it. They know it. The world knows it. Do you rap for real? Boy, I tried. I made a rap song called Gear Crisis about how I can't wear

Nike and Adidas at the same time. And it is the hardest shit I've ever tried to do. We just talked about it yesterday. Although in this world, it's like a month from now. Yeah, yeah. Difficult. I just talked about it yesterday. Although in this world, it's like a month from now. Yeah, difficult. I don't mean the most. I've never felt so small. I felt so small and so sweaty. I was like, it is

hard. And naively, I thought it was going to be so much easier. And by the way, I sound just like this when I think I sound different. Like when I'm rapping, I sound just like this. He raps and is speaking for us. I hate a cadence

change from a white rapper where all of a sudden I'm like, oh, you're from Atlanta? I didn't see this coming. You sounded like a computer programmer five minutes ago. I have a... When I was a little boy, because I was raised in Oakland, everybody wanted to be a rapper and i started

thinking i would be a rapper i'm talking third fourth grade and i wrote a rap um and i still remember some of it but i wanted a nickname i wanted a nom de plume easy phila you didn't have my first this is pre-phila i'm talking little kid pre-la and uh you want to hear some of the bars yeah of course what the people are begging okay oh let me tell you who i was though i needed a nom de plume i needed a rap name my name my first name is mark my middle name is mosha that's two m's i am not joking no way oh were you m&m i was m&m that's right i was m&m um but this is pre-m&m as well. I'm talking, this is like 82, 85. He listens.

He listens. I know he does. So he's going to get that. Bizarre listens and he tells M&M. Well, I was the original M&M. That's all I'm saying. I'm not saying I'm the best M&M or the most skilled M&M, but I was the first M&M. So you're playing M&Ms and he's peanut.

That's right. Okay. This is fourth grade, okay? Or third grade. I've never hooked up with a girl. I just have heard like rap. And it goes, I don't remember it all, but it goes, I make money. And that's not funny.

I use my money to get honey from Bunny, who used to be my girlfriend. But now we're just fucking as if there had been no end to our relationship. Yeah, she's a trip, but she's fine. She got the best damn pussy I tasted in a long time.

It tastes good. It tastes like fish, but on occasion, she can be a real bitch. Anyway, I don't know. Freaky tales that you tell so well. Freaky tales that you tell so well. Come on. From Freaky Tales. It must have been me just quoting Freaky Tales that you tell so well. Come on.

From freaky tales. It must have been me just cloning freaky tales. Ladies and gentlemen, M&M on the ones, the twos, the threes, the fours. Holy buckets. Who is the best M&M? Who is the best M&M? It's got to be me. I think that's a legitimate question.

I like you being in third grade being like the best pussy I tasted in a long time. In a long time. Since I was born. And also, oh, this is great. It tastes like fish. It just shows you how little I know about how I don't know anything. You put that shit together, though.

You put that shit together, though. Eminem laced it up. Quite nice. Yeah, there we go. Excellent. David, your second pick uh this is a weird one but this is like uh this is the thing that came into my life at a time where i really needed a hobby i really needed something that was just for pure pure enjoyment and it was like it was a whole world i never thought i had access to so every time i would see these people they'd be really encouraging and stuff i'm taking black fishermen oh wow yeah george cool yeah because it's like it was like i had just got home from trying to go to college and it went real bad escaped like got myself in some deep trouble got out of some trouble came home had nothing going on

and my best friend at the time is is black and he was like i just he was like all i do is go to work and fish now and i was like the fuck are you what like i didn't even that's not even on my radar you know what i mean and he's like he's like because he had just gotten out of jail and gotten sober and he's like bro i just work and fish i just jail and gotten sober. And he's like, bro, I just work in fish. I just work in fish. And I was like low key homeless. And he was like, you can come live at my house. I got this girl who can set you up with a job and let's just be fishing buddies. And we started and it would be just me and him.

And we got really into it. Like we got really, really, like I was fishing. We'd fish before work, after work every day. And it would just be like, you'd be at these places. And sometimes I'd be like, this is fucking corny. Or we'd go up ice fishing in the mountain and you see the one black guy and he'd always be like, I'm so happy to see y'all out here.

I'm from Texas. We do like, it was like, it was always so much love and they would hit you off with knowledge and like, what are you working with? Oh, this is blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And it would be like, it would happen, you know, once or twice a month. And every time you saw another black guy in that space that you would just be so warm and so welcoming. And so like, I'm glad you're here. Good to be here. And then now you have it on Instagram where I have black guys who fish, who I just follow. Shout out to Hoodfish ENT or Hog Snatcher or all these guys. And it's just like, it's the space that I never thought. or Hogsnatcher or all these guys. And it's just like, it's the space that I never thought. That's why I couldn't get Hogsnatcher.

That's why. It's the space that I never thought, I never even thought to occupy. And it feels very alienating, a lot. Like you sometimes, because sometimes we would pull up and like when we were younger, we would pull up on our bullshit, smoking weed and playing rap music

and like talking shit and being loud and stuff like that. it would be like these like very kind of white not open spaces and but when you would see these guys and they would and you would understand that there's like a history of this and we can do everything and black people do do this going back forever and ever and it's just like that's that's how the three of us felt going to hip hop show. That's the same exact feeling. I pulled up with my bucket hat and my vest full of lures. Who's rapping tonight? But yeah, it's always, always great for me. You'll still drop a line, right?

Yeah. Oh, yeah. No, I'm still fishing still. but yeah it's always always great for me always you'll still drop a line right yeah oh yeah no i'm still fishing still yeah i still go fishing and the guys still go fishing with black people and now there's like instagrams about it and like especially black people specifically within the outdoor space there's like a lot of it that you can see but all this shit was before even before my space was really cracking up you You know what I mean? So it was just like to see a guy who to me was just like a regular guy out there was always like, you know, just always so encouraging. Keep going. Keep going.

What'd you guys get? What'd you get? Oh, okay. Go over there. Next. You know what I mean? Just like really, really encouraging. It always felt like some each one teach one type shit.

So that's really cool. This is going to sound like an ignorant question, but I swear it's not. it always felt like some each one teach one type shit so does that yeah that's really cool this is gonna sound like an ignorant question but i swear it's it's not it's like because you pulled up earlier like smoking weed and listening to rap music do you still smoke weed listen to rap music i mean smoking weed i imagine but i don't listen to music anymore because that's what i was gonna that's what i wanted to know yeah you don't want to wreck but i still smoke weed but like a lot of people fish and smoke it's like because fishing is not like, it doesn't have to be through lines. I've been through Carmels a big fish and smoke weed guy.

I dare I say my dad smoked weed and fished. I don't even think it was a little fishing. What you were talking about, David, like that's such a cool world that you're describing. And like with the Instagramification of that world, like a lot in the book is, like I said, there's a part of it that's like a kind of a lament about how the internet delivering culture to young people has taken away the kind of magic accidental journey through life.

And so there is a part of it that's like, there's a sadness to me about that though. Like TikTok delivers to you what culture should be and music all feels mushed on top of itself and it's a genre list and fashion is as hip-hop and punk and everything is just the same thing and so there is in the book a big lament about that but also what you're describing is is is a new kind of magic that has been manifested from the internet which is like these universes that used to be because that's a lot of what

subculture is, is like you wink at someone and go, we share a secret. Like we're in the same club and we share a world. And so like things like black fishermen or like, you know, blacks, there's an ebony surf club that I follow on Instagram. It's a black surfing group. Cause I'm a, I like to surf and they look like they're having more fun than me. Cause they're always having these beach parties that I wish I was invited to we've talked about this on here i swear to god we've talked anyway go ahead sorry sorry but the but the internet has created it taken away obviously that magic or whatever but it's also created these like bridges these portals to like welcome more people into into new spaces uh which i think is is it's big magic and it's big power like you think about being born gay

in you know deep South Dakota or whatever like it used to be more of a challenging prospect choosing to be gay

choosing to be gay in South Dakota no there's no possibility you choose to be in fact being born gay in South Dakota

proves that it is not a choice I think people might choose to be gay but they wouldn't choose to be in South Dakota I've been saying that since we had one kid in high school who was openly, openly out.

And I'm like, there's no way he made the choice to make this his situation. I mean that you'd be right. You'd just be a sadist. Yeah. But that kid now can go online and go, Oh my God, there's,

there's a hundred thousand person parade in San Francisco and Los Angeles. I'm not alone. And then to smaller things like what you're talking about, David, God, there's a hundred thousand person parade in San Francisco and Los Angeles. I'm not alone. And then to smaller things, like what you're talking about, David, like you had to have a guy literally nudge you and say, hey, come to the river. And now a kid can open up Instagram and go, oh, wow, there's all these people like me

that are out there and I can go find my destiny through digital paths. And I think about it, especially just specifically for black people, there's so many cultural things where it's just like, that's white people shit or that's whatever that you don't you don't even realize that there's an avenue into it at all you know what i mean unless you're brave enough to do it by yourself which a lot of people like i would have never i wouldn't have even known i liked it

i would have never gone fishing by myself you know i've done none of this by myself i didn't go skating for myself yeah Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But like to be able to see that and like, and just those guys to always be like, Oh, like I, I swear to every time, every time,

always cool about it. Always like, yeah, keep going. You know what I mean? That shit's like, yeah, that shit's a very,

very important. Beautiful. That's very legit. I was playing a board game with my daughter the other day she's almost six and one of the categories was uh white people nonsense and it was like it was like a categories kind of thing and she's like what's white people nonsense and we were like um i don't really i don't well i think it's just like you know what white people do and she's's like, like, be happy. Be every like white people, nonsense.

White people are, I guess, kind of like lame. And so it's sort of like that. Charcuterie. Like, yeah, but even just know there was that stuff. White people like era of culture where it's like where that was also low key, like gatekeepy in a way where it's like yeah it's totally high-key gatekeepy but like yeah now we're sort of hopefully board games in the future won't have white people nonsense it'll just have jewish nonsense well i guarantee the way things are going which brings me to my final my next draft No, it doesn't. It doesn't.

Israel. Here's the crazy thing. Now that's what I call a subculture. Sean has to go to the airport. This is the least far we've gotten through. Sean, you tell me, dude. You know, soon-ish. Yeah, yeah.

Just because we like Harry and I. You do do your last pick and we'll just do two picks. Oh, no, no, no, we don't have to just do two picks. You gotta be, you need to be up front and not aw shucks about when you need to be at the airport right now. Don't miss your plane. Don't miss your flight for this shit. When, what time is your flight? I should be there

by 1245. Yeah, so we should wrap up after this pick. I mean, we can throw the rest in there, right? We can just pepper him in. I mean should wrap up after this pick. I mean, we can, we can throw the rest in there, right? We can just pepper him in. I mean,

just like say him quick. My, my next draft pick, I'll just say is a deafness, Judaism and burning there. Okay. That's one. So that's one subculture to me.

I don't know. No, I was going to pick deaf Jewish burning man was the less successful followup to deaf comedy jam. No, I was going to pick deafness. Deaf Jewish Burning Man was the less successful follow-up to Deaf Comedy Jam. I thought I'd pick deafness just because I think, you know, I've mentioned the other things. And raves and Burning Man, I mean, listen, there's a lot of great stories of Burning Man that I could tell you guys about over the years of going since the 90s. But it is pretty similar to raves. And deafness has been a gigantic part of my life.

And it's a subculture that I think a lot of people don't understand fully. A lot of people look at people signing on a movie and just go, oh, how beautiful, but they don't understand the amount of self-determination and sort of revolutionary action that had to occur in order for you to be seeing somebody sign in coda. It's a 300-year history. history i mean 300 years ago there was no sign language system in the world uh the only sign system that existed that uh was just what would happen it was it was accidental we're talking about the accidents of history that make or break your life like in in the book i talk about this if you were born deaf and usually you would be born the one deaf person. And this is back when, you know, people get deaf or it would go deaf for a lot of more reasons than they do now because it was, you know, and you don't have an ear infection. Yeah. And so if you're born deaf and you're the one deaf

kid in your village, um, that odds are that that's what would happen with most deaf people. They'd be the one deaf person in their family and the one deaf person in their village. They just had to figure out some gesturing system to be able to tell their dad, like, you know, I'm hungry or whatever. They couldn't communicate. But if you were born lucky enough to have genetic deafness in your family and have two deaf kids come into your family, so you and your sister could then create a language between the two of you, literally a language of two. You would invent an organic language between the two of you and it would be a sign system, but it still wasn't a recognized sign system because it was a

language of two. And one day this priest, this French priest, the Abbe de Epee or whatever, in the 1700s, he walked into a village and he saw two deaf sisters signing back and forth to one another. And he saw it and he goes, I know what that is. That's a language. And so he said to the sisters, teach me. And they taught him. And all he wanted to do was teach them enough language so that they could take the communion, so they could go to heaven. That was his only concern. It was like, if they can't say,

if they can't take communion, they can't go to heaven. God's hands are tied. God's like, I, what am I supposed to do? I can't just let them into heaven. They didn't say the thing.

I mean, I mean, I'm God. I'm not omnipotent over here. There's rules up here. Yeah, there's a rule. I mean,

my hands are tied. He's, there was Satan. These two little eight year old deaf girls. I mean, they burned him to eternal hellfire. And so they taught him what they knew, and he taught them French. And then he, through signing, he was able to then give them back French.

And then they set up a school eventually called the International Institute for the Deaf or something like that. And that was the first school for the deaf in the world. And in that institute, they taught, they created a real sign system, which was all of the deaf people in France that were able to get to the school, created this language together. They taught that language to this priest. The priest then taught them French and they would travel throughout France doing these exhibitions where somebody would ask a question in French. The priest then taught them French and they would travel throughout France doing these exhibitions where somebody would ask a question in French. The priest would sign the question from French into French sign language. And then the deaf person would stand up and write the answer in French on a chalkboard.

And people were like, fucking crazy. I can't believe deaf people can think. And then other people would come visit the school. And then the schools would get set up. There were schools for the deaf set up throughout Europe. And then one day a man came from America. And there was this guy, Laurent Clerc. Thomas Gallaudet was the American who met Laurent Clerc.

And he said, will you come back to America with me and set up a school there? And we can set up an American sign language system. So they flew off. And by the time, well, they didn't fly. They sailed off. And by the time they landed in America, Clerk had learned English from Gallaudet and Gallaudet had learned sign from Clerk on the boat ride. They set up a school for the deaf. They set up Gallaudet University and they created American sign language. So that when my mother was born, you know, 200 years after that, and she went to a school for the deaf,

the language that she, uh, that she was given was, was a direct line from those two sisters to that priest, to Laurent Clark, to Thomas Gallaudet, to my mother, to me. And that was the first language that I spoke. It was the first language that I, uh, I knew. And the guy that wins the Oscar for best actor for CODA, he's got the same language system that was fought for over 100 years. Now, there was a blip in the middle where once that started to get set up, once deaf people started to prove that they were operating on equal footing, once they give someone language, because it's actually, it's not disability hearing that's the disability. The disability is actually not having a language. Once you have a language, you can start to operate. So once they set that language system up, Alexander Graham Bell, the guy that created the telephone, he started doing what I hearing people and white people and sort of imperialists

do, which is he said, we got to make them more like us. We got to get them to stop signing and start talking. And that's a long story that's all in the book, but it kind of plunged deaf people back into a dark ages because they took sign away from them. The thing that proved that they could reason, they started to steal away from them. And then the community of the deaf fought and fought and fought. And finally in in the 80s, they took their language back and they finally installed a deaf president as the president of Gallaudet University. And that is the landscape

that we find ourselves in now, where there's deaf people on TV, deaf doctors and nurses. And anyway, that is the world that I was born into and one that I'm very, very proud of and truly a member of. That is a beautiful,

the fact that like, I mean, that is one of those beautifully human. Seriously. Like in an uplifting way where it's like they created a language. They saw, you know what I mean? Like.

Yeah. Out of necessity and just got it done. That here's a, here's a question. Sign language, the same all over the world. Most common question ever asked about this. And the answer is no.

Here's a weird fact. Because as I said, American sign language comes from french sign language uh i would know more french sign language than i would british sign language really that's funny i'm yeah it's more connected to the french sign language system than it is to the because what it is not it is is it is not a translation of english it is its own linguistic family uh that is not connected it's connected but it's not a translation of English. It is its own linguistic family that is not connected. It's connected, but it's not. That's what I was thinking.

You don't have like the Anglo-Saxon invasion and then the Normans coming in and like having new words for it, like the way the English language was shaped. You have this thing that happened 200 years ago. I didn't realize this was like a really big deal. Oh, go ahead. Are there efforts to universalize

it at all or is it kind of like where it's like well we're not learning fucking French there is a system that they've tried to get off the ground much like Esperanto with spoken language that has mixed results but there is a system but it is not like

why would they universalize it you would have different cultural needs for language. Yeah. You need different where it's like, you do need the 50 words for snow. If you live in snow all the time, you know? That's right. Well, actually 50 words for snow. Here's an interesting factoid. When they came to America to create this new system, uh, the, the kind of the stock that they used to create American sign language was french sign language that's the big bowl more of a consummate there was two communities yeah quite a consummate yeah uh there's two communities that they that they they were organic to america one was martha's

vineyard martha's vineyard before it became what it is now it's like a rich place to like fuck your mistress if you're a kennedy used to be the place with the highest concentration of deaf people in maybe in the world for some weird genetic reason that island had like one in 12 people was deaf and so if you lived on Martha's Vineyard you knew a deaf person you were related to a deaf person and everyone on the on the island signed and so they took so maybe I exaggerated I said they never had a sign system because Martha's Vineyard was unique in that everybody on the island signed. But it was almost like a slang. It was like they had like a slang sign language, a pigeon. Yeah. Wow. Yeah. So they took Martha's Vineyard sign language and they took actually Plains Indian sign language, speaking of 50 words for snow, Plains Indian sign language is not from the deaf. You ever see those cowboy and Indian movies where

they're like doing hand signals? So they had created a sign system for intra-tribal communication because people in the different tribes, indigenous tribes, they didn't necessarily speak each other's languages, even though they were tiny little tribes. system. So you could say like, you know, give me this and I'll give you that. And then you could communicate with the tribe. So they took those two things, French sign language, and they kind of mixed it up into American sign language, which is why in American sign language, there's over 50 ways to say, never trust the white man. They wrong. Moshe, we've never done this before, but would you be interested in like coming back again next month to plug your book again and also do the second half of this draft? You goddamn right I would. Hell yeah.

Fantastic. I've always wanted to do that. I'm sorry. I really, I mean. Shut the fuck up. Don't waste. No, I'm sorry. If I should have said that up front, I just.

Stop apologizing. You're wasting time apologizing. And you don't need to apologize to us, your friends who love you. All right. I just got another bulking out of it. You think I'm disappointed? Yeah. Come on, anytime. Yeah, I've wanted to actually do a

two-parter forever, and I'm stoked because I do have more that I want to talk about. Absolutely. Yeah, I feel like that's perfect. I'm in. This is a win for me. I never got asked to do it before. And the first time I come on, I get asked to come back because what I'm saying is so compelling. It cannot be contained in one episode.

Listen, if you want to know more about what I have to say, preorder my book or buy it right now. I think it's out when this thing drops. Buy the book. Last night when Ian said the topic, I was like, man, I'm going to feel stupid because some things just make me feel stupid. And this has been so fun to talk about just to like dive into all these things. So yeah, I'm actually in a completely different space. It's funny you say that, Sean, because the way you described skateboarding and underground

hip hop, I guess I was sort of tangentially connected to, but I never skated. I bought a skateboard once and it got stolen that night. And I thought, okay, maybe not for me. But the way you were describing your experience in that world, like you might as well have been talking about raves. You might as well have been talking about Burning Man. It's like, and the way we were all talking about standup, it's like, this is a unit, this universal feeling of like, I found my people. I had one of those today, actually, when I logged on to this podcast. Yeah, amen to that. Hell yeah.

Well, we're going to revisit that next month. But for now, the picks as they stand. Moshe went first and took raves and deafness. David went second, took gambling, black fishermen. Sean went third to skateboarding and underground hip hop. And I went last and took improv comedy and not and not just comedy improv and mmo rpgs you're gonna lose the fight it like we all had a fist fight if all of our groups had to for sure for sure unless i improvise a knife oh shit what are you gonna do now dude space work

no i'm just gonna freestyle at it uh shout out to everyone on we want to hear yours but we're not going to hear yours until next March, I guess. I hope you enjoyed this. To be continued. Shout out to everyone on the All Fantasy Everything Patreon. Shout out to everyone on the AFE Shaslackity, the AFE subreddit. Shout out to super producer Isaac on the ones and twos. Shout out to our guest Moshe Kasher.

Everybody go buy Subculture Vulture. Go see him at his live book events, which are happening right now as you're listening to this. Portland especially. We got a lot of people in Portland. Go see Moshe at Powell's. And yeah, shout out to St. Sue Carmel.

Shout out to Frankie Ocean. Shout out to Sid the Dude. Shout out to Haji Beats. And more important than all of that, tune in again next week to another brand new episode of All Fantasy Everything. So clackity. That was a HeadGum Podcast.