All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg - E21: Media misalignment, subjects controlling narratives & more with bestie guestie Draymond Green

Episode Date: February 6, 2021

Follow the besties: https://twitter.com/chamath https://linktr.ee/calacanis https://twitter.com/DavidSacks https://twitter.com/friedberg https://twitter.com/Money23Green Follow the pod: https://twitter.com/theallinpod https://linktr.ee/allinpodcast Intro Music Credit: https://rb.gy/tppkzl https://twitter.com/yung_spielburg Intro Video Credit: https://twitter.com/MikeSylvan Referenced in the show: David Sacks on Tucker Carlson https://youtu.be/MukXS8uaVns Gell-Mann Amnesia https://www.epsilontheory.com/gell-mann-amnesia Show Notes: 0:00 Discussing Sacks' recent hit on Tucker Carlson 7:25 Media misalignment, subjects as sources, new age of journalism 25:53 Bold prediction for the future of media, potential All-In Network, mistrusting everyone except individuals 34:28 Bestie Guestie Draymond Green joins the show to talk dealing with day-to-day NBA life under COVID protocols, the temperature of the nation, issues with the media & more 1:08:02 Mean tweets

Bet you'll be, I'm a chill being, bet you'll be I'm recording, testing, testing, I'm recording And here we go A bet you'll be, here we go In three, two For what your winner's ride A brain man David Sattas And I said we open source it to the All 11 podcast in the world.

See all in podcast with the queen of Ken Watt, David Friedberg, Rainman himself with his hot new track from young Spielberg. I am the Rainman David sacks. And of course, wedding his beak, the absolute dictator, wedding his beak with his merch. Merch gay and mistrong, Chimouth, Polly, Hapa, Tia, how's everybody doing on the backs of us becoming

the number 11 podcast in the world? Really good, really good. Well, look at that enthusiasm. Really great. No, I think we had an intermittent Saxipu is not apparently you know with with all these with all his weak Beek wedding he hasn't had time to pay the internet bill You can go ahead and upgrade your DSL from from 56 kilobits. I think you can afford it. Okay

He's hit his band with limit because he was watching himself on Tucker over and over again this morning. I'm sorry, I'm sorry, we read that. I'm sorry, we read that on the internet. I do need to say this that yesterday we do have firsthand evidence that David Sacks after appearing on Tucker Carlson, then spent the next hour watching himself appear on Tucker Carlson.

Literally got up from the poker table. My gosh. He used to play poker with his besties because he had to watch himself on her eight feet. Less than six times on Tucker. Oh my gosh. No, no, no, no. He must have been watched at 20, 30 times.

No, no headphones. Just listening to the iPhone, looking at it. No, holding it up to his ear just so he doesn't miss a word, optimizing his performance. What was it like to go on Fox News with this, a dream for you, Sacks? Is this a bucket list?

See, Jason, this is why you're such a scumbag because I asked you guys to say, hey, Tucker shows in Vimeo, should I go, you know, and you guys are like, yeah, yeah, it'll be great for ratings for the pod, you should definitely do it. And then after I do it, the first thing you guys say when I walk in the room is, oh my God, you went on talker Do you realize that all your deal flow just got canceled? By the way, that was the funniest part Jason had premeditated Basically getting you to appear on Tucker so as then to impune you and destroy you

I'm gonna get all your deals now. Yum yum It comes to early stage deal flow. Yeah, and then he starts tweeting You know, he's like the first one to show a photo of me split screen with Tucker I was waiting. I was literally watching and taking the great. I didn't take it the whole time. I didn't take it the whole time. Actually, you did in all seriousness, you did great. I think it was worth doing. And he framed it as, I don't know if people saw it, you can look up Tucker Carlson, Bestie, David Sacks, it'll come up number one.

And he said you were essentially taking a very liberal, classic liberal point of view. So he basically set the stage for you to not be a far right wing nut case. You were actually defending liberal principles of people should have the ability to have freedom of speech. Why don't you talk about what it was like? Yeah, I mean, so you're right. I mean, he made the connection in the comparison to net, uh, Hentoff, who was like the famous

ACLU free speech lawyer. And I really appreciate that because I do very much see myself in that mold of somebody like Hentoff. He wrote a book called Free Speech for me, but not for the sort of famous line, because everybody wants free speech for themselves and they're allies, but they want to deny it to people they disagree with. And, you know, they never seem to realize that censorship is a problem until it gets turned against them. And so, you know, the point I made about these reddit kids who are censored is that, look, this, this was not, well, there were some raunchy speech in their message board. We all know that, but it was no different than any trading floor trading pit or boiler room on Wall Street, right? It's the same kind of language. Yet they were

taken down and censored by Discord for hate speech. Why? Because they became very threatening to powerful insiders. But how many of those Reddit kids saw it as a problem when Trump or his supporters got or Parler got de-platform a few weeks ago, they could never have imagined that that same censorship principle could ever get turned against them. And so we all have a blind spot towards censorship when we like the results.

And, you know, Hentoff's point is always, look, it's not about the results, it's about who are you giving the power to censor too. And that's what you have to be really careful of. In relation to that, how delightful has it been to not have Trump on Twitter, putting this side, you know, censorship, even for you as a Republican conservative, but liberal socially, I will note, you're very liberal socially, you're living let live, pro LBGTQ of course.

But to not have Trump on Twitter has been all that cognitive space has come back, we get it all back. So silence is bliss. Silence is bliss. What did you guys think about? What is your name? Marjorie, blah, blah, green, who just got completely censored. What exactly happened? Yes, sax is that censorship?

Yeah. If you're a crazy loon who believes that part of the string was a false flag. What do we do? The fact that that's not that's not censorship. It's just she got censored, I guess because her colleagues thought she was out false flag. What do we do there? That's not censorship. She got censored, I guess, because her colleagues thought she was out of line. That's okay. If her colleagues want to vote for that, that's fine. So she can still say crazy stuff. You just can't do it and have the certain job. Yeah, let's face it, when politicians say crazy stuff, it helps the other side.

I mean, Marjorie Green or whatever, her censorship, who does that help? It helps the Democrats. You know, quite frankly, does Trump being off Twitter? Does that really help the Democrats? I don't think so. I mean, you know, you could argue that Biden or that Trump is the one unifying, opposition to Trump is the one unifying opposition to Trump is the one unifying force in the Democratic coalition.

So the more Trump is out there, the more it bonds the Democratic coalition together. So yeah, I mean, censorship has this way of like backfiring and you can't just look at it in terms of narrow, short term political results. Speaking of censorship, I want to get your take on something else. I think these last two weeks have been a complete sea change adventure capital. Let me give you the setup. It's all of a sudden seemed like there's been a decision that's been made where the ecosystem of companies will basically where the ecosystem of companies will basically use their own platforms and their own mediums to completely control the narrative and the dissemination of information about them that the media in the effort of company building

may have taken a big step back you know, I think the whole sort of like thing on Clubhouse was really interesting. I think this guy who just joined Andres and Horowitz, who actually hosts a show on Clubhouse is really interesting. I think there's some really interesting emerging managers who just have these incredibly different ways of throwing around. Shrew and Ron.

Shrew and Ron. Shrew and Ron. Shrew and Ron. Shrew and Ron. Ron Ron. Shrew and Ron. Shrew and Ron. Ron Ron. Shrew and Ron. the street was hosting good times at 11, 10 or 11 PM every night on Clubhouse. Mark and Dresden comes to it every night and of course Elon came, interviewed Vlad. And then last night Zuckerberg showed up in order to get the blueprints for Clubhouse to then put it into Instagram and Facebook.

But what do you guys think of sort of like this entire sector of the economy basically trying to, I guess, organize an end-around. I don't know if it's real. I don't know if it's real. It doesn't seem like it's just venture, right? Look at Trump. He avoided having the traditional press conference as the channel for dissemination of his point of view and communication of his objectives, and he went on Twitter every day, and he just

tweeted. I think anyone who's been part of a business or an operation that's had to deal with media gathering facts that you don't consider to be true, and you can't really counter their point, and then they publish, and it's static, and it's out there. You're frustrated. And in the world that we have today, which

is many alternatives, for going direct to our customer and going direct to our audience through social media and having control over that message, it's appealing to make the switch away from traditional PR and going to social. I mean, Chim off, you don't put out press releases, you go on Twitter and you make a statement about what your intentions are and you publish it on pages. And I feel like everyone's trying to do this and there's all this like trend and big companies now too, which is how do you develop a quote unquote social media presence?

You can speak directly to your audience and your customers without having to go through the press. I find it very hard to get the point across by going through traditional media. It's not that it can't be done, but I find it harder and harder. And the reason is because they're in such a ferocious competition with social media

and so they have to be just as click-oriented and Usually as the next best tweet that's that's trending at that time So it's it's almost impossible to ask well Neval Neval had a great line about this which I think he tweeted a long time ago Which is that the internet commoditized the reporting of facts. And so at that point, the traditional media went wholesale into opinions. And so now they all have an agenda of some kind. And especially the tech press,

their agenda basically is hatred of tech. I mean, they hate the people they're reporting on. I mean, Jake, how you know this, right? I mean, yeah, I mean, having been a journalist in this, it's really interesting to hear your opinions. And if you look at trust among Republicans, all time low in the press, and then just all Americans don't trust the press right now,

they think there's hidden agendas. And it really is a confluence of events. What happened was the internet caused the revenue streams of the press to get just violently compressed or eliminated. So, you know, you had Craigslist take the classified business, Google and Facebook took the ad business and subscriptions, Netflix, Spotify, etc. So you have all that revenue is gone. And what that meant was they didn't have the resources to do fact checking. And then the publishing schedule, because of blogging, which I was involved in, required that people

file two, three, four times a day, just to keep up. And so when you're filing even just twice a day, there is no time to get quotes from the subjects. So we have all as people who are subjects had quotes attributed to us that were like where did you pull that quote from? Like, oh, three years ago, you said this or whatever. And then you don't even know you're going to be in the story. Like the hit piece they did on you, Chimoff, some sports writer and SF Gate did some hit piece on Chimoff. Did they ever call you? Did they ever say would you like to respond? That's how it used to work. That's how you learn when you get a degree in journalism, right? You call this up, Jack? You interview. Of course. And it used to be you filed once every two weeks or maybe if you were in a weekly news

a news like a news week or a business week, you filed once a week magazine, you filed once or twice per episode per issue or maybe once every other issue or a feature writer. Now they have to they have to publish so much. By the way, Jason, you said something. Any fat checking. You said something really, really important. It's the craziest thing where these guys will not even call you and say, here's what we're running or here's what we're going to say, do you want to work

through this with us? Do you want to tell us, are there any inaccuracies? We're really seeking the truth. Nobody's really seeking the truth. They're seeking clicks. And so here's what happens. Yeah. Your salary is now determined by your number of followers on Twitter. As is your book deal and your substack then becomes your negotiating position versus your existing publication. So some of my carouswishers who is not full-time at the New York Times probably makes a half million or a million dollars a year doing her podcast with them in the editorial page. I would say somewhere between 500K and a million. All the other writers there are looking at other people

who've gotten significant followings and saying, I have to get a big following. How do you get a big following? Well, Saks figured that out. He wasn't, didn't have a huge following on Twitter in the last couple months, but since we did the podcast podcast. Zach started having an opinion and picking aside and really owning his opinion. And what happened? But in fairness, and also being super intelligent and thoughtful about it. Of course, but anybody picking aside gets rewarded.

And if you go down the middle, you don't get rewarded because people go, that makes sense. But then I think that people should just be using facts as a jumping off point as opposed to like weaving it into the narrative so that other folks get confused. Meaning, you know, it used to be the case that a newspaper has an opinion page. Well, no, now the whole newspaper is opinions.

Correct. Because the facts you can just get from the AP, right? There's no point calling the New York Times to figure out what the hell is going on in the world. Where do you be doing is deep analysis. Yeah, like the New York Times article that you what the hell is going on in the way. Should be doing is deep analysis. Yeah, like the New York Times article that you brought up a couple of weeks ago, Chimatt, that we talked about on the pod was about the trust fund kids who are given away all their money.

It wasn't an analysis of how many people with this amount of wealth are giving away their money. It was anecdotes to make the case that this is the story line that they kind of wanted to progress. And that is, I think, where you're able to stay within the bounds of traditional journalism, but still get a narrative across that is a bit sensational and it is a bit inspiring. And free quotes. All you need to do, having bit on the inside of these discussions is, when you have one person, it's a profile, as an example. When you have two, it's still a kind of a profile with an example, but once you get to three,

you got a trend piece. And so what you're at your ender say to you is, if you can get me a third person who's a trust fund kid, now we got a trend piece and we're in the clear. So let's do that and do the anecdotes instead of actual research, which then takes time and resources. And if you look, what Andrewson, which is specifically done with clubhouses, and it's really freaked out some New York Times reporters, I won't say which ones, because every time I mention

this one reporter, she pulls the female reporter card, and she pulled it last night, where she said, I'm a female terror chemist. Taylor Lawrence. Mark in Dresan. Yeah, yeah. I'm not gonna say who it is, because she gets really upset.

It's Taylor Lawrence, but she, I mean, she tweeted it. So I don't get the she- She's hiding from it. She admitted that, and I didn't want to say who it is because she gets really upset. It's Taylor Lawrence, but she tweeted it. So I don't get to say she's hiding from it. She does it. And I didn't want to bring up her name. Now bringing up her name, I guarantee you, Tweet. What can I say something about? I am being harassed by Jason Cali-Cannis because I'm a woman. She's saying that Mark and Jason and Andreessen Horowitz blocked her from their clubhouse

room. When you're blocked from a clubhouse room, you don't get access. So she said, I'm gonna make my own shadow account. She did make a puppet account. Now she's listening in. And she got upset at me because I told people in a room, hey, there's a New York Times report in the room, just be careful because this could wind up in print.

She called that harassment and gender-based. Well, the thing they're complaining about now is that all of us are trying to go around them and just tell our stories directly. And so they're all in rage. They're saying, how dare Mark and Dresan, or A16z, not talk to us. It's like, well, why should they?

I mean, my experience with the press has been that about 75% of the time when they asked me for comment on something, it ends up being a hit piece. Maybe not on me, but on some something I care about and they they they twist what you say or take one little quote out of context To support the article and you end up giving credence to an article that you completely disagree with and so and so all of us Have to stop taking those calls. I mean we just know We just know there's such an agenda behind most of these calls that we just like don't take them anymore. Yeah, that's why we're going direct. Yeah, I'll say one thing about Taylor Lawrence. I've learned a lot because I feel like, you know,

being 44, I'm kind of out of the no. Yes. And I've learned a lot because she has her finger on the process. I mean, it's really, It's been really fun reading her stuff. The other thing I'll say is on the end reason thing, I think what they have finally stumbled into, I remember when, you know, and recent started about a year before I started social capital. And I remember the whole push was, you know, multi-services, right? And they were going to be recruiting and sales and this and that. You know, I suspect that all of that was kind of like pretty meager ROI and not that it just burned a ton of fees.

But I think this thing that they're doing is really smart because if they effectively build their own distribution arm through newsletter, sub-stack podcasts, you know, clubhouse shows, whatever, that's a force to be reckoned with because then if you're a venture investor, you either have to be like them with their own version, in which case, the brand event and recent really matters, or you're on this path of where the trend event is already going, which is solo GPs and individual people are the brands. And there's going to be very little space in the middle. So for example, like I do think that, I do think that the Holland podcast helps, for example, David in craft, or Jason, you in launch.

But you guys are the same kid as going crazy. But you guys also stand alone as individuals. But if you're a traditional firm, pick your organization, which neither has brands nor has distribution, what are you doing? You're probably forced to just pay the highest price. And so those returns for those folks in the middle get really bad, I think, over time. And you at some point have to decide, are you an individual person?

Right? And there's like some amazing up and coming GPs. We know them, Locky groom, folks like that. Or are you, are you Andrews and Horowitz with this massive distribution? I mean, and now we have to just, I think face the reality that we are in competition. And I think that's what is making the press even more, and that's what makes the situation even more complicated. I'm not saying the press is targeting people

they consider competitive, but the press is not getting Vlad, Elon, Zuck for interviews. But because Mark and Dresan has clubhouse now, they put themselves on the suggested follower list. Just like Twitter put Ome, Cara Swisher, and some other journalists on the suggested follower list for Twitter. What that was was it was payment, basically, like a million followers. Now in Dresan has a million followers, Belagie, all these folks from Dresan, I believe, have like a million followers. Now, in Dresan has a million followers, Bellagia, all these folks from Dresan,

I believe have like a million followers. So the press is complaining about that as well because they can then dominate them in terms of getting subject. So they've lost the subject, none of us get on the phone with the press with very few exceptions. And we're a sway or vox or Ezra Klein

when compared to our podcast, right? Like we're right up there with them, if not ahead of them. I mean, we're the number one tech podcast. So it's pretty crazy when you think about how much their world has changed. And now they're directly in competition with the Andreessen Harrow, it's all in podcast. You know, pick the firm doing eventually.

And that's gonna make this even more contentious. I pretty. Yes, I totally agree with that. But I also, I do think fundamentally that all of us wouldn't have felt the same need to go around them if we didn't feel that they were such a strong agenda. Just to bring what have you guys heard of? Gelman, Amnesia effect. Michael Criten, who wrote Dress Park. Like a true polymath in genius. Airframe,, air framer, very good, by the way. I mean, so many brilliant things.

He was even a Hollywood director, true multi-talented guy. Anyway, he described the gelman amnesia effect as follows. He says, you open the newspaper to an article on subject you know well. So in this case, it was a physics paper by on gelman. He says, you know this, yeah. He says, you read the article and see the journalist has absolutely no understanding of either the facts or the issues. Often the article is so wrong and actually presents the story backwards, reversing cause and effect. I call these the wet streets cause

rain stories, the papers full of them. In any case, you read with exasperation or amusement, the multiple errors in a story, but then you turn the page to some other section to national international affairs and you read the rest of the paper as if it was somehow more accurate. Totally. You turn the page and forget what you know, which is that the journalist just gets so much wrong. And I think, you know, and all of us kind of suffer from gel man amnesia sometimes because we still, I think, take, when we read something in the paper, we take it at face value. And I think, but we all know that when it comes to tech reporting or whatever, there's so much misinformation that gets put out by these official channels. And I think at the end of the day, what's happening now with these end run around the

traditional media, it's all a response to Jelma and Amnesia. I think it's a problem of complexity. You know, I remember years ago, when I was younger, I would read the paper or read magazines about science and engineering. And I was really interested in these topics. And it was only years later when I actually realized how wrong so many of those articles were as I started to read the original scientific research papers.

But it takes a skill set and it takes a significant amount more time to really go into depth into those papers and to actually read them. The same is true as you point out with like, geopolitical issues, like the complexity of what goes on. Yeah, here's my explanation. And I was a journalist. We would have about 10 to 20% of the information

about what occurred when we've published our first story. And then maybe every subsequent follow-up, we get another 10%, which means if we were really hooked into a story and we did five versions of that story, we might get to 40%, 50% understanding. Whereas when the four of us are doing a deal and then you see this impact, you know the press is getting it completely wrong and that was fine if you felt the press was fair. Right.

And that's what's happening is now there is a distinct feeling with subjects that they're being treated unfairly and what I do When somebody connects to me and they say hey, can you comment on Robin or whatever? I said I can't but I do have a great story for you about a world positive start up and I kept doing this with Teddy who kept asking me to give Information on friends of mine, you know the guy from Reco or whatever who covers like philanthropy and every time they contact me I say, yeah, you know, I can't comment on that, but you can talk to the founder,

but I have three world positive stories. Are you interested in any of them? And I just do that kind of to troll them, and they've never, in five years, taken me up on profiling a world positive. So if the press wants to turn this around, a very simple solution is one for you, one of your hate stories.

So if you, for every time you wanna take down a company, maybe write about one company that's doing something good. There's some company doing something in carbon sequestering right now that is super valid and world-positive. Write about it. And the only time they write about Tesla is when Elon trips or you know, something that somebody dies in a car or they write about Uber because of some tragedy. Sorry, I just want to say like Jason, like just going back a second, like your point is one about bias, which is you know creating sensationalism, sell stories, it's what just want to say Jason, just going back a second, your point is one about bias, which is creating sensationalism, sell stories, it's what consumers want to consume at the end

of the day. There's certainly a market-driven model there. The point I was trying to make earlier is there's also a separate problem around complexity, which is complex issues, take time and take depth to truly understand. To really understand what's going on in the Middle East or what's going on inside of a company like Facebook requires more than a five paragraph journal article. It requires some hours of conversation and dialogue. And I think by the way, the craving for that depth, which delivers truth and understanding is what podcasts can provide and clubhouses providing

long form content that allows you to go into the new aunts and into the texture and into the depth of what's going on in the world as opposed to having the five paragraph littered with ads Buzzfeed article that says something sensational, but it's simplify something to the point that it's often wrong or completely misses the real depth of what's going on. And you know, it's like and I think that I think they're both they're both they're both kind of playing. And then I want to give a prediction. They're both, what you're describing are both issues. And I think they're related in the following sense that if you were to go to like any of these reporters, like the people that Jake Almanche and a couple of names, okay? If you were to filter their bylines

and see all of their, not one story, but look at like all of the headlines for all their stories over say the past year, you will definitely see a trend. They will all have, you know, like for certain reporters, it'll be 100% negative about tech, 0% positive. Yeah, I mean Aaron Griffin, I think, is the reporter who's one of the top tech reporters

at the New York Times, it's just like coin base, coin base, away. Yeah, exactly. So once the last time they wrote a positive story, so there is this huge agenda there. And I think it prevents people from getting into the complexity, because it's a lot easier to write, you know, that. Here's the prediction.

And then I'm going to make a bold prediction here. The media companies are going to, you know, they're obviously picking aside. They obviously went subscription. Now they're dealing with sub-stack, clubhouse, podcast, all chipping away. I think what's gonna happen is, you're gonna see media brands built around certain podcasts and they're gonna work subject first. In other words, the subject of the story

are gonna create media property. So if you look at what we've done with all in, and obviously I have this week in startups, if we did the Friedberg on science podcast, and it was just Friedberg explaining a science topic, and then we did Chimoff on public markets, and then we did Sacks on, you know, alt-right conspiracy theories.

And we just had five pots, damn. Well, it could be something else. I don't know, guns, I don't know. I don't know. We pro-life, I don't know what Sacks is into, but you know what I, no. Sacks could do something on Sass. So sax on Sass, freeberg on science,

Chimoff on thirst traps. As we can start up, then we have all in. That's five, five full pods of an hour and a half each. If each of you did your own pod and I had my pod and we made the all in network, the all in news network, I guarantee you we would be within five years, right up there with CNN and MSNBC. Well, one thing that Jason, I've been doing with now,

is I really do want to start a Twitch channel. And I think part of why is I'd like to really actually have more conversations about companies and stocks and With the youth. Yeah, with the youths and really getting to the details. Also, when we partner with a company, bring them on the show so that we can spend an hour or two and talk about things in detail, it's totally lost. The crazy thing that I realized for me is near to your point Jason, like, you know, we have

enough distribution now where millions of people can see it. And if that has real impact because, you know, you can allow people to judge. And I'm not necessarily saying we're better or worse than anybody else. But if we're not using it for the, the express purpose of selling ads necessarily and getting paid, I do think there's a better likelihood that it's that the outcome is better. Well, I mean, a big likelihood that the outcome is better. Well, I mean, a big part of the success of this has been the banning of guests and the banning of... banning of ads.

And banning of ads, people really have responded to that. And I think if we put a Twitch channel up and we just throw in all in, throw in this week and start ups, and then, you know, a sacks, you know, point counterpoint show, and I'm being sincere freeberg, just freeberg on science and You know that's five shows and we just say every Friday there's gonna be five shows like this is your weekend And we're gonna loop it and there'll be a Q&A. I guarantee you we could get five other besties to do shows You know and we would did you know what isn't it didn't you guys originally like so for the audience That doesn't know this originally the all-in podcast was Chimath and Jason. They were talking about doing a show together. And then COVID hit,

and they, I think you guys asked me on the pod zero to talk about COVID stuff. But what was the original goal you guys had? Chimath, isn't that what you wanted to do originally was to have kind of a direct audience and a direct conversation about, you know, whatever it is you wanted to talk about, or you could have this kind of long-form dialogue. You know, what did you guys want to do in the first place? I mean, wasn't that kind of the idea? I'll tell you what sort of like my general viewpoint is,

which is that like we are atomizing our affinity. So I think that like we've gone from believing in institutions, and now I think we fundamentally mistrust institutions, then we spent 30 or 40 years believing in companies, and now I think we basically don't believe in companies anymore. And now we're sort of at the at the at the bleeding edge of what, where belief and trust exist, which is at an individual person level. Ownership. So, like, you know, and I think that when an individual has the potential to not just be about something for themselves, but also for themes that other people care about, that's when you get real heat. And obviously, the most impressive example of that is Elon because, you know, E represents exploration, engineering, science, climate

change, you know, all of this stuff, not really. Not really. These other things are really what matters. No. And so, and so what it shows people is like, I just want to find affinity around a few key people. And what he is, is not the end state. He's the beginning of the beginning. Right. So what's going to happen is all of us will say, I don't trust institutions. So whatever they put out is just going to be Corpo.

I don't trust companies. What they say is going to be Corpo. I'm going to take my best shot at finding folks that I think are real. Yep. And I'm just going to get that's the thing. That's why I wanted to do this with Jason. And then with the four of us, I think what happened almost accidentally is it's like a real

plurality of views. And you don't have to agree with all of us. And frankly, nobody does. And we don't generally agree 100%. But I think that's what's happening. So I think we're another much smaller than Elon, but another example of, you're going to want to find your own truth tellers, you know, folks that you will get behind. And I think that, you know, business people, that's where they're going to emerge. Because if you look at that first generation of star, Kim Kardashian, the Kanye West of the world, that's arcing. Then people went to the Mr. Beasts and that's

still building. So you have the business celebrity building, you have sort of next generation celebrity building. And I think that's what's going to look like. Let me just ask you guys one question because I think the intention with journalists was kind of to be arbiters of the truth or discoverers of fact and to deliver that fact to their audience. When you have this direct relationship between the source and the audience as you do through social media and Twitter and whatnot, there isn't an arbiter, there isn't a third party, and that then is said by the source is taken at face value. How does that play out in a world where Trump may say things like, hey, there's election fraud when the facts don't line up. And now you have this ability to not have an arbiter. And these people, anyone that now has a direct relationship with a large audience can say anything they want and kind of drive large change without those things necessarily being rooted in some, you know, relative kind of objective sense.

So, sex. Well, I mean, I think it's a marketplace of ideas and everybody is competing and the answer to bad speech or bad ideas is more speech and better ideas. And I mean, that's the reality is it is very frustrating to see, you know, people propagating things that aren't true. However, none of us has an monopoly on the truth. We can't say for sure what it is. And so we arrive at the truth through sort of a free marketplace of ideas.

There is no better solution than that, you know. There is no magical way to entrust a small elite of people with the right to censor and tell us what the truth is, without essentially creating a worse situation. And that's the fundamental problem. So yeah, look, we're gonna, we're going to this era in which there is no, you know, if you go back like 50 years ago,

you had Walter Cronkite saying, and that's the way it is, and everyone believed him, and then the New York Times was the paper of record, and people believed that. Well, the news that's fit to print. Right, exactly. And so, but that's been steadily eroding for decades, and now the internet is the final erosion of that.

And look, I think it's not an all to, it's not a bad thing, because in order for journalism to work, you need all the journalists to buy into a certain code of journalistic behavior and ethics, which is all about objectivity. And the press doesn't buy into that anymore. They don't believe in objectivity anymore. No. Especially out there, something sacks.

Young writers, I found, when we were trying to hire young writers for inside as an example, they all wanted to write anti-Trump, you know, pro-woke, whatever. They had some acts to grind. And I said, you know, you should really write for an opinion page, but you haven't done any journalism yet. So you should probably do journalism for 10 years. And then the second decade, you earned the right to be on the opinion page. Let's put in some reps, do 10 years of this, and you know, it just never actually...

Oh, my God. Wait, do you guys hear something? You guys see that movie from Dufftel Dawn, and there's that moment where the movie just suddenly makes scene changes and everything's different. What's that, oh, oh, oh? Somebody's calling the bestie phone. Did you give the bestie phone number to somebody? Chimup.

Oh my god, is somebody? Wait, what's going on? Who's the hair? You up? You up? You what's going on? Ellen. Okay, let's see.

Is anybody there? Hello? Hello? Whoa! Yay! Yay! Yay! Yay!

Ha, ha, ha! Drainmon Green in the house! Drainmon Green! Oh, Drain on green in the house Guasty guesty You in a Corona virus COVID quarantine somewhere in an NBA bubble where are you? I'm in Dallas, stuck in the hotel with bad water pressure. The worst. That is the thing. If you had to give me the most luxurious hotel in the world, but with a tap of faucet for water pressure, no thanks. I would rather sleep in a box with a great with a great shower. The water pressure is everything. Everything. All right, on the call, obviously drafted

by the Golden State Warriors in the second round, 35th overall in the 2020 NBA draft, three time NBA champion, 2016-17 defensive player of the year, two time NBA loss, or five time all defense, and drafted behind Michael Kidd, Gil Kristi, on Warrer's house in Barnes, Tyler Zell, or Miles Blumby. And I don't know how many people got drafted ahead of you,

Dremont, but I know that you can repeat them in order. Is there any video draft that a head of you who has achieved even a fraction of what you've achieved in the NBA, Dremont? There's 34 guys drafted ahead of me, and I definitely can still name all of them. And saying that, I definitely can still name all of them. And saying that, I think there are few Anthony Davis. He's done okay. He got one ring. Damien Lillard. No rings.

But a stud. He's a very good player, but no rings. I'm just saying. And Bradley Bill. Brad Bill, okay. Also no rings So I got all the guys in a rings category, but then I don't have patch of recall in the ring category Patch of a car has the same one reasons so who you know Respect to those guys that name all go. They know how to rings. I got maves a respect for those guys that name. They don't know they know how to raise. I got maves of respect for those guys. We were thinking about what to talk to you about coming on the pod. And we have a series of questions just about

being an NBA player and what you've learned and how good you've become. I'll start it off with one question, which is it seems like every year you get a little better at something. How do you do that? Do you like say over the summer, I'm just gonna be better at my screens,

I'm gonna be better at X, Y or Z, or do you just try to get incrementally better all year long? I mean, you always want to try to get better all year long, but the reality is with this season, with the way, not just this season, in particular, and MBA season, in general, you don't have much time to get better.

So your kindness is getting better on the fly. And when you're in your work, I was during the season, you're just trying to maintain, because there's such little prep time. But during all season, you really lock in on a couple of days and try to get better at those things. And I think I've become a much better ball handler. I think I see the floor much better.

I think I've gotten better overall as a player. I'm the one area that I've wanted to see more growth when it's my shooting. And you know, when I'm shooting the basketball on my own, I know for sure I've gotten better at shooting. Like, you know, you come in and jimmy me, I shoot the lights out every time. But it's about getting over that mental block in the game. You know, I think that's the thing people don't realize is, you know, I shot the lights out for years in a row. And I had a year when I think I shot 39% from three. But then you go through the struggle and once you lose it mentally, it's hard to get it back. And so I'm fighting that challenge now. Although I know I can make the shot. It's when you get in the game so I'm fighting that sandwich now Although I know I can make the shot when you get in the game

Mentally got to get over that hurdle. What what do you do? You do like meditation And you have like a coach who does like positive visualizations or something like that or is it just reps and Working through a shooting slump. I've definitely incorporated some meditation on the calm app. Thank you definitely incorporate some meditation on the calm app. Thank you. Sad. Oh, Jesus Christ. Hey,

God. Did you give him all just you more? Hang on. You have to disclose that shit on the only podcast you have to disclose. If you have option, I'm keeping the shares right now. What you're being conference. You're having an hour yet.

No shares yet. Hey, dream on our, our, our, our, our other players in the NBA struggling right now. I mean, with like COVID over the last year and the shutdown and the fits and starts and everything, I mean, is it kind of tough to get in the game mentally for folks? Is it? It's brutal. It's brutal. You know, you talk to guys around the league.

There was even some guys and I won't throw anybody under the bus, but I'm talking about one superstar in particular who I've never seen him out of shape. And he's so out of shape now, everybody. I'm gonna go. Wait. I'm gonna lose. No comment. James Hart.

Yeah. It's not Luke or James Hart, but I've never seen this guy in shape. And he's out of shape right now. And I accidentally was playing it. He's like, man, the bubble, like, it's just been hard. And I completely understand that. I mean, what?

What? It's brutal. And this season currently, I don't want to sound like just this over-approved-ish guy who's complaining about being able to make a living. Because there's so many people who's lost their jobs and I don't take, you know, being able to go to work for granted at all.

But this season has been extremely tough. You know, whereas an NBA day normally, it's like maybe four to six hours like every day right now, it's like 10 to 12 hours. Wow. And, you know, it's COVID testing. For 11 a.m. practice, we have to be at the facility at 8.45 a.m. Oh, wow.

And then you have to be back at the facility to test, no later than five in between four and five feet of. And so you kind of have these long drawn out days and about maybe two hours of that is actual work time. And then you're just trying to do some recovery things to kill time. You can't lead a hotel. For myself, one thing that I've always found in NBA season is it's a ton of pressure,

obviously, and it's very, very demanding. Like you can't really do much else as you you guys know, I'm always trying to coordinate with y'all about playing poker around a sketch. You can't really do anything else. But one place that I found is normally I'll take like a date trip to Aspen, you know, or do different things like that, a date trip to LA, to kind of clear your mind and get a release. You don't have those releases now. You can't take a day trip. You can't get away. Even on off days, you have to go to the facility and test. And so even just seeing that facility that they all don't, you may not even go in to work out, but you drive into that facility every day.

Mentally, it's exhausting. And so it's been a very tough season to say to least. And I think a lot of guys are struggling with it and saying that, you know, we all want to continue to, I don't know, you know, it must be better to be, you have to do, must be better to be playing versus being stuck at home with the lead shut down, right? I mean, it's gotta be better. For sure.

Yeah. I mean, it's better for all of us, obviously, you know, from an economical standpoint, we all want to continue to make money, you know, and provide for our families, we all want to continue to make money and provide for our families. We all want to continue to take this lead to new heights. So it's always better for us to be on the court than off. But that comes with certain challenges.

And you just got to deal with those challenges and try to continue to press forward. Data, before you came on, we were talking about the media and we're talking about how all these industries used to rely on the media to tell their story. And now all these industries are finding ways to go around them. And it's even happening in venture capital, right? In the business of sports, I found this thing that I thought was really interesting. Ronaldo signed a $1 billion lifetime contract. right? I think this is like two, three years insane But then it turned out that in one year He generated

$474 million of value for Nike just through social media because of the number of followers he had Which I think is just absolutely nuts What do you think about the media? What do you think about your ability to tell your version of the facts through the media? I think we definitely grown in that area, as you said, in all business, where there's basketball, where there's venture,

just all over the board, everyone has grown in that area and start taking the blue bottle horns and try to tell their own narrative. You know, if you want me to be quite frank with you, I hate the media. And I'd be, so to say.

And saying that, I could possibly be a part of that group one day. But I hate the media and the reason I hate the media is I don't hate particular people. You know, I have relationships with a ton of people in media, great people. I hate what media entails in today's day and age. You know, it's all about who can start with the most commotion?

What happened with this guy? What happened with that guy? It's left about, man, this guy is struggling on the floor and more about James Harden was in the club. Yeah. You know, so how much controversy can we stir up about James Harden being in the club? As opposed to, if we really wanted to talk about about James Harden, when he was on Houston Rockets, he was bumping it. Now, we all know James Harden is in a bomb player, but he was completely

doggin it with the Houston Rockets. He's completely turned it up and turned back into James Harden as he's gotten to the next. But you can easily, if you want to nitpick at James Harden, talk about James Harden, not playing well. But in turn, we're going to talk about James Harden being in the club that night and he was at Lil Baby's birthday party. And although, you know, I disagree with some of the things he were doing. Why is that all that? Right. It's all about clicks and selling ad dollars against that. We were just talking about that before you got on. Look at what happened to Kari in the span of literally a week. Kari had both sides of the same coin. One was he violates the shelter in place or whatever and was like

at a birthday party with his family and then he gets suspended. And on the other side, Kyrie had bought a house for George Floyd's family. And so it's like both are true, but you have to go through these two new cycles where first he's just a piece of shit and then he's this amazing philanthropist.

What's the point? Yeah. I agree, I don't get the point. Like, and like, like Freeberg just said, it's all about clicks. Yeah. And I think that's short lift. You know, at some point, everyone's gonna get tired

of your clickbait. And so yes, it may drive you revenue right now. It may, you know, bring more subscribers right now. But in a long time, people are gonna get sick of that. At the end of the day, authenticity always wins out. Do you create great products when you give everything great to whatever business that you're giving? That's always gonna outlive the bullshit.

And so you got, and that's why you're starting to see so many so much turnover With media people leaving this job and going to this place and leaving other place because people get sick of that shit And so I feel like all of these guys are driving themselves out You're constantly you're killing your relationships with players You're killing your and when I say players. I'm not just talking about NBA players You guys are the players in the winter space. Where the players in the in the basketball space, you're killing your relationships with the players.

So eventually, you're just going to be stuck there, tweeting out bullshit, making bullshit articles that no one will co-sign to and then no one wants to fucking hear you anymore. Oh boy. Look back. We got a bestie in rotation. Yeah, that's gonna get clipped. There's a little rant, a little drag on that.

Oh man. Your first bestie rant, the dream on. We've all had our moments. We've all had our... Have you watched or listened to any of this podcast before? How's it going? Are you fucking peering me? I don't know.

I have a question actually. So yeah, and I'm not sure if the viewers know because from Jason's introduction that we actually play poker with you. Right, right. That's how I got to know you. And obviously it's been a real thrill and because you're a great guy

and it's also really interesting to get a window into your world. But I'm curious, like, what do you get out of hanging out with us? You know, these, these, these, these users and white neuroses. Yeah. So, I'm, you know, and then, you know, maybe use that as a segue to also talk about what you're doing in business these days, because I think that's interesting.

What, what I get from hanging out with you guys is number one, incredible friends. You know, I think that's what's been the most important thing for me. It's just building friendships that will go far beyond any of you guys doing any deals that are going far beyond me doing any deals or me playing basketball. And that's the thing that I cherish the most. Obviously it started with Bestie Seat bringing me into the Parker game and introducing me to everyone. And then all of you guys welcomed me with open arms.

And I always say in our group chats, any time that there's a debate going on, I may sort of throw my disclaimer out there. Hey, I can talk. Anything you guys, I know everyone can talk circles around me, but this is how I feel on set topic. And tell us about the, tell us about the temperature in America.

The temperature in America is fucked up. And I think, you know, where we are today as a country, it's no different than where we worked 30 years ago, 40 years ago, we just live in a day and age of social media where we can see everything. And so the same battle cry that Dr. King was crying 50 years ago, it's still currently going on today. It's the same exact thing, or 60 years ago. It's the same exact things that's taking on today. It's the same exact thing or 60 years ago. It's the same exact

things that's taken place today. And our country is one and one of the most fucked up spaces that's ever been in. And then saying that, it's in just about the same place that it's always been in. And so, you know, we've supercoded here for so long that it seems now like, oh, police killings are an all-time high of shooting unarmed people. Racism is out of all time high. It's not an all-time high. It's the same that it's been.

It's just on the, it's being pushed to the forefront now as opposed to being on the back burner before. And so that's just kind of where we are as a country. You know, that's the thing. You think that's going to shift, Dreamer? I mean, you know, the protests that happened in this country over the last year obviously happened during COVID and I think it magnified them a lot more than, you know, similar protests have taken place historically. But, you know, are we seeing like sentiment shift

in the United States in terms of policy and people's behaviors and attitudes right now? I think some people behavior, but I don't think anything is going to shift. And partly because we live in a fake ass world where no one can say anything. You say anything you get cashier for your I think You know and telling your truth which in order to Create the change that we need in America people have to be able to speak the truth

And if you can't speak the truth without getting fucking destroyed and a part of the bullshit cancel culture that we all have to deal with, then how can you ever create change through a lot? Lies are what we've been facing for hundreds of years, but yet when you get in front of a microphone, you have to be very conscious of what you say because it may piss this group of people off or it may Pinch that group of people off and then you're never allowed to tell the fucking truth So how do we ever move forward as a country if no one can tell the truth and you only get canceled? Yeah, so you cancel who tells the truth and we fucking push forward all the lives

We'll never move anywhere as a country. So I don't think we're going anywhere. Seems like in the NBA, we went from the player saying, listen, I don't want to touch that. Michael Jordan was very clear in the last dance. Like, you know, I'm an athlete. I don't want to talk about politics. I don't want to lose half the audience. And then you had, you know, mellow and, you know, LeBron and a bunch of folks see Chris Paul, I guess, was in that group too, Dwayne Wade, when they came out and said, hey, listen, we got to talk about this.

We got to talk about race in America. And then that culminated with the Black Lives Matter branding of everything in the bubble. And that kind of historic moment. What was the vibe inside of the NBA when the player said, listen, this is important to us. If we're going to get back on the court, we need to make this front and center. This is our priority. And then let's face it, you got a lot of owners in the league, maybe who are old white guys,

maybe they don't want to bring this kind of heat. They don't want this kind of debate. They want to just play ball, shut up and triple all this this nonsense What was that moment like when you guys said no? This is what we have to do if we're gonna get back on the court I think I think guys have just had enough and more most importantly, I think Now more than ever Guys truly understand the power of the athlete, you know in the Exactly closing the loop on what we just said, we control the narrative, you control the narrative.

Absolutely. And so we're just kind of in a space where we understand this don't sell without us. And the things that matter to us has to matter to the lead. Now, and saying that, I think, we have a commissioner that supports everything we stand for. And when you have a commissioner like Adam Silver who is in full support of everything that the player stands for, it's never trying to fight us, it's never trying to put a muzzle on us and tell us not to stand up for what we believe in. That's a very powerful thing. And that's why the NBA is the most powerful sports league in the world Because we have a commissioner who's on board and who not only supports

What the players think and what we believe man, but he takes it even a step further You know and and you don't see that you see the NFL tell guys you have to stay you know or or Stay in a locker room. Out of silver don't do us don't do that to us. And that's why there's always friction between their commissioner and their players. Dade, what did you think about the storm, the Capitol when you were watching that? What was going through your mind? We see the two different sides of America. The first thing that went through my mind was, I wonder if that was a Black Lives Matter protest,

or Black Lives Matter protests that stormed into capital. How much of a bloodbath it would have been. It would have been one of the biggest bloodbaths in American history, in a perennon. And so immediately when I saw it, the first thing I thought I was like wow how is this even happening and let alone it not happening no one and by the way I don't wish death or anyone but I know that if those were melanated people who were storming into the capital building,

it would have been bloodshed everywhere. And it's absolutely. And so it just kinda really, once again, just revealed how there's two sides of America. And as I said before, until we tell the truth about it, we'll still, we'll continue to live in the day and age and where else be two sides of America. Draymond, when COVID first started and we went into lockdown and we were all texting

with each other, talking about like how crazy the world had become, one of the things that stuck with me and still sticks with me is the comments you made over our text chain about how it feels like you felt growing up. Can you just explain what you meant by that and just share that with our audience that's listening? Because it was such a striking comment. We were all like, oh my gosh, I can't go outside, I can't go to the store, this world is crazy.

And you were like, this is what it was like. And it was just such a striking, maybe you can just share a little bit about what you meant by that. Because I think it paints a little bit of a picture for folks to understand a little bit about what America can be like I think it paints a little bit of a picture for folks to understand a little bit about what America can be like and what it's like growing up in parts of the US.

When I said that in the group chat, what I said was that I was like, the good call. It was a good call. You were right. We should all go where to call. Oh, yeah. No, but when I said that in the group chat, what I said, what I said in the group chat was, honestly, I was in my condo in San Francisco. I live in a high-rise, great view of the bay bridge, great view of the water. You see all the San Francisco, San Francisco everywhere. the water, you see all of a sudden for Cisco, South SAMHSA everywhere. And I said to the group chat, after a few weeks of lockdown, I said this, you know, guys, I have to be quite frank with you. This feels no different than me growing up in Saginaw, Michigan. And what I mean by that, I said, this feels no different than me growing up in Saginaw, Michigan. The only difference is I know where my next male is coming from. And I'm in a much better place living space than I was, but this feels no different.

I'm locked in, I can't go anywhere. That was me growing up in Saginaw, Michigan. Locked in, couldn't go anywhere. Didn't know that there was a world that existed outside of Saginaw, Michigan. And basketball was able to take me different places, but I didn't know anything existed. And nothing seemed accessible to a young black kid growing up in Saginaw, Michigan. So once I was, once I was then locked in the house along with everyone else in the world, it just took me back to a space of, wow, nothing else is it's so, it's so simple to me.

This was exactly what it was when I was growing up as a teen hero, like nothing was accessible to us. We didn't have anything. That's how, and so when we went into lockdown, I felt right at home, I felt like the kid growing up and setting up again, Nothing was accessible to me. But it's such a poignant point, Drayman, because so many people don't have that experience,

but hearing you say that it provides perspective that there are people living that today. And it's not just about a COVID lockdown, but it's about a different world that we don't get to see. So I really appreciated you sharing that. It honestly was very poignant and kind of struck a nerve with me when you said it. Absolutely.

I think, you know, one thing, I know the thing I said in the chat, and I am included. We all got a chance to see what it felt like to be those people. You know, obviously I lived that life growing up, but once you're removed from it, you're removed from it, right? Like, you know, you try not to never up, but once you remove from it, you remove from it, right? Like I you know, you try not to never forget, but let's let's be frank, you know,

Shema, Shema, you grew up with nothing coming from India and or Sri Lanka ain't going to Canada. You have nothing you understand and you know, we all understand from a different perspective, but there are still people currently that live that live that life today. Can I tell you all of us at glimpse of what those people go through on a daily basis? The one thing about this pandemic is that I've had these moments day where like I actually now am a little bit more connected to my past. I did this podcast with this guy, Patrick Oshana, and he ends every podcast and he says,

what is the kindest thing that somebody's done to you? And I had pushed this memory down into the fucking recesses of my mind, except in this last year, I remembered all these kindnesses because now these are the moments where I felt the most insecure. And I told the story about this kid who, when I was like 11 or 12, he was eight, so he was in my sister's class, and their family gave us a mattress, two mattresses, and some clothes, you know, some plates, and like a frying pan, and a pot, literally, when we got refugee status. And when I said it on the thing, I started bawling, and then I kind of collected myself.

And then I get in the little acclame, even hearing you talking about it, man. And the next morning, Nat said, how did it go? And I told her, and I exploded and I was crying, and crying and crying and crying. And to your point, like, it is so easy to forget where you come from, but it's also easy to forget that there's a simple fucking externality. In this case, it's a virus you can't see that gets trans and it makes us all the same.

In one fell soup in one nanosecond. And if that doesn't make you sort of like empathetic to everybody, nothing will. But that's one silver lining in this whole fucking debacle is it's an opportunity for for a lot of folks to reconnect with their own self, you know, and be a better person. There's something you you paused on, Dremond, or in the pandemic, when you weren't playing

and you guys obviously with the injuries and everything, pandemic when you weren't playing and you guys obviously with the injuries and everything. You weren't in the bubble, so you had a lot of time to be with yourself. Did you have any like during this great pause, you know, I don't know, revelations about yourself, your career and what you want to do in the second half of your career because let's be honest. I mean, the run the Warriors has had has been transcended. I mean, you guys have checked off every box. You personally have checked off every box, especially for a guy who was drafted in the second round to

be a champion and like the way you've developed and the leadership. I mean, everybody in the league knows when you're on the court, that's the team. And you have that leadership, the ability to see the floor and direct the offense, direct the defense. Did you come up with anything? We said, this is what I want out of the future, my life. Because we saw you dabble with TNT and the desk and you killed it. We seen you mic'd up. We see you coaching now.

It seems like there's a 2.0 Dremon, like maybe a little evolution here of your thinking about maybe the third act and the second half of your NBA career on the court. I had a lot of time to really sit and reflect. You know, I grew a lot in my personal relationships, which I think was important. You know, and I think I also grew a lot as a business professional as well. And speaking of, you know of the TNT stuff. And I think, we've kind of always, or I've kind of always heard,

man, when you finish playing, you'll have a great career in TV. But the reality is, we've seen some players, that were really good players, get up there and not be very, you know, be very good sitting at the desk or, or, you know, color commentating the game. And so it's not as easy as most people think it is. People think just because you play basketball, a that you know basketball, and then b that you're

going to help, you're going to be able to translate or help give everyone else an understanding of what exactly it is that you see. And so getting up there and actually being able to do it and then the reception that I got, which was people, you know, and my mind I've always said, I want to be Tony Romo or the NBA. Tony Romo is one of my favorite people to watch, do color commentary because he makes it very simple for you to understand. He tell you, I'm Tony Romo sit there and call the plays out there the team is about to run Just by seeing the formation and they do exactly what he's there about to do It's the most incredible thing and and speaking of which we were talking about earlier, which was the media One of the things that pissed me off most about the game of basketball today

I can't turn on a sports talk show and actually learn about basketball. And that fucking pisses me off. All I can turn on talk show about is there about bullshit? But the reality is we have we have so many people talking and and speaking about the game of basketball they don't know shit. Right. And so you can't turn on the TV and learn. And so the one thing I'll say, I want to bring to that world is I want to be able to teach the game with basketball. And then for people to then contact me, once I was sitting up there at the desk on inside the NBA and doing all of these different things to contact me and say the way you break

the game down makes it so easy to understand. That was a huge win for me and it gave me a lot of hope to want to succeed more in that area. Well, I'll say something different, which is what I see is just an incredibly beautiful human being because you're able to humanize that, but then you can go and speak on these other things. That's actually what we need more of because all of a sudden now it's very hard to put people in a box. And it shows that we are all multifaceted. It's just that sometimes we don't get the exposure,

meaning like I would say I have different facets of my personality because we've been friends for so long. And that's a gift you gave to me. You just said being in that group chat with us, which can be a cacophonous fucking mess sometimes. That group chat should, that group chat can never, never, never to be published. Never, never, never to be published. But the point is like, and this is goes back to this first thing. Like we can now really like be authentic and show all these different facets of ourself.

And it's just like, to me, that's what's really important. Because then people see that there is more than, you know, like the most, the best rebuttal to like that whole shut up in dribble, which was so fucking offensive, is literally for you to be great at basketball, great at broadcasting, great as a, you know, social, you know, person who can comment on the social times of our moment, great businessman, and then I'm just gonna put one thing out there right now. Eventually, great fucking politician, because this is like, now you wanna talk about somebody, no, but you wanna talk about somebody

who can galvanize interest and his- There's an open governor, I'm gonna talk to him on a, someone on our podcast, no longer running apparently. Guys, I'm gonna train on it someone on our podcast no longer running apparently guys guys I'm gonna I'm gonna make a prediction that our bestie will be the governor of Michigan or the governor of California Love before before the time he's 50 love it. Thank you. I appreciate that maybe I mean, I love the state of Michigan That's home, you know, but I think California will be home for me for the rest of my life So yeah, we can't afford you

Hey, Dremel, let me ask you a question You're on Twitter. I understand you have a Twitter handle. Sometimes you check it out. Did you see Chimatz shirtless picture with the shirt off And shirtless picture with the shirt off. And Dana, did you see the first strap? Did you see a tailed true lock, man? Tell the truth. I mean, he looked away.

If we all know some off, I'm sorry, probably sent it to the fucking group chat. Oh, you know what? He sent the outtakes. We want all of us to say that. So, I definitely saw the picture. Actually, I'm the one who posted to the group chat. No, that's posted in it.

And my comment was, Chamoth Kardashian, question mark. I'm not gonna. You put the camera in front of your face. You were like, it looked like this. It was like you did this thing like. But, Deede, taught me how to do this. He's like, oh, yeah, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, so some people have given some reviews or just feedback on the pod, on the besties, maybe even you, Dremon.

And so we thought it would be incredibly uncomfortable and funny for us to read some of these. So, Saks, why don't you kick us off with one? Well, there's a really good pie chart here, which Nick, Nick and show, which shows all in pod talk time. And it's basically mostly Jamoth and then Jason with both Davids filling like a tiny little piece. And then the majority of it is Jamoth and Jason talking over each other. Bordeel on to pop. Bordy Lawn must post to that, I guess. Yeah.

Here's one from Brooklyn Gal 212 on Sacks. One star review. Sacks, go ahead and read this one star review from Brooklyn Gal 212. Yeah, she says that David Sacks runs every conversation on this spot. It's very cool. You forgot the period.

All right, here's one about Chimau. Oh, Chimau. Yeah, Chimau 3, this one. Okay, it's from about Chimau. Yeah, Chimau three this one. Okay, it's from Howard Axel Rhoark. With a pill. Okay, with a with a pill. It says every time Chimau does something to make me like him, he does two things to make me hate his guts.

I feel like we can all relate to that one. And it sounds like me and my plan career Everyone fucking hates me man. It's crazy Drainman, I will tell you when when I first when I first thought about putting a tweet out for like the first time You're the one who said man everyone's gonna talk shit, but forget the haters like that's just the way it goes when you start Oh, yeah, fuck down. Yeah, fuck the haters. All right, here's one for you. This is a superfan Aaron sent this one into the email. Jason, at this point, I fully believe you have bought,

laminated, and framed Kathy Riffin's severed trumpet in that picture. How many gallons of Siemens still got to win the box? I didn't know it was even a fucking rate. Oh my Lord. Too much. Twitter offered two blue chuck marks. You'd have three.

Your zealotry has made even Bill Mar blush and the other besties cringe when you can't take even a slight ribbing. It's so bad now. The besties have started their own side chat without you. At your funeral, the besties will show up not out of respect for you, but for your family.

Oh my god. My lord. I'm sorry. Signed of shackle in sex. No commentary. Oh my Lord. Okay, David, you're sure as a date. Oh, wait, wait, I need to do this hot take.

Hot take, ready? The hot take. Hot takes. Not deeply researched. Three stars. Jason and Chimath make good points. But the other two are such whiny nerds. One of whom is clearly right wing,

wanna be vanilla ISIS. Jesus, oh my, no, so brutal. Can you just call you a terrorist? Oh my lord. Oh my lord. I think he's referring to Freeberg. I'm gonna give him. Which David?

Definitely not me, definitely not me. People have the same, if I'm gonna be clear. Jason, you good name. Which David? Definitely not me. Definitely not me. People have the same, if I'm gonna be clear. Jason, you wanna read the next one? This is incredible. Evil Jason. Evil Jason.

Okay, here we go. This is from Adam Keem. He posted this on January 30th. So not long ago, he gives me a full one star. Which I think one star is like number one, right? Five stars is fifth place, first star is one place. Jason Callaghan is a monster. Monster, monster. Monster, monster monster monster monster monster. Wow,

after listening to Jason on the latest podcast, I am floored period. His personal tax and his complete support of the manipulators in our market should tell you something. This guy is evil. Let's move on. Thanks mom. David is trash. That is all. Which David? Freeberg. Always freeberg. Oh, no Which David free bird always free bird always free bird Oh, no, here's here's one I'll read if Metro mile and or becoming new head of USA vaccination Doesn't work out for David freed bird. He could still have an amazing career as a kermit the frog voice actor Fucker Oh, here's here's Marcus a reallylius a13367156 saying to me,

snop sniffing your own farts. And fuck this out. It means that you are so enamored with your self-chama that you think your farts are fragrant. Oh my god. Okay, I'm going to read I'm going to read a Dremon green mean to you. Oh, there you go. Oh, no Dremon green suit like he sitting down in a chair Max or screens

This is from Sugar love love This is from Sugar Laplum. Sugar, would it A? Sugar Laplum? Sugar Laplum. Dre Mayn green is so attractive to me. I don't know why because he's legally ugly. No.

Wait a second, is she nagging you? I think she's trying to get her to the DMs and nagging you with the same problem. You know the brutal, by the way, the brutal thing about that, the brutal thing about that. The brutal thing about that is not not one sent to me. She's like man Dremond green is really attractive I said what the fuck are you talking about I said I am so much better looking than Dremond greed Let's not get crazy, okay your solid sevens on a podcast full of fives take it easy

Data read gold blots guts no Drain my green skills shoots like he got the door We like Drain on we invite Drain on on this nice podcast Don't even tell him. Have him roast himself. This is he's never coming back It's not a blurs the guts. Oh my god. This is just so hard. It's so hard. Oh my god. That was really fun. That was really fun to have you are You fucking nurse and not talking circles around around me on the spot cast leader for the chat All right, I'll be a big book. Yeah, I love you Love you, Bestie. Love you, Bestie. What? Well, like your winner's ride. Rainman, David Sack.

I'm going on. And it said we open-source it to the fans, and they've just gone crazy with it. Love you, Bestie. I squeed a can of wine. I'm going on. I'm going on. What?

What? What? What? What? What? What? What? What? Besties are gone. Oh, go through that. That's my dog taking it away.

I wish you drive away. Sit down. Oh, man. My ham is the actual meat. We should all just get a room and just have one big hug or two because they're all good. It's like this like sexual tension that they just need to release that. What? That beat. What? your, your beer of beef.

Beep, beep, beep. Good, good. We need to get merchies aren't there. I'm doing all this! I'm doing all this! Please!