All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg - E24: Markets trend down, political manipulation via COVID “Zeroism," stimulus breakdown, biological Patriot Act

Episode Date: March 6, 2021

Follow the besties: https://twitter.com/chamath https://linktr.ee/calacanis https://twitter.com/DavidSacks https://twitter.com/friedberg Follow the pod: https://twitter.com/theallinpod https://linktr.ee/allinpodcast Intro Music Credit: https://rb.gy/tppkzl https://twitter.com/yung_spielburg Intro Video Credit: https://twitter.com/MikeSylvan Referenced in the show: NY Magazine - Zero COVID Risk Is the Wrong Standard https://nymag.com/intelligencer/article/school-opening-science-coronavirus-teacher-unions-zeroism.html Released COVID-19 Response Contracts https://covid19.ca.gov/contracts Chesa's "response" to Sacks https://twitter.com/chesaboudin/status/1366508970102247424 GoFundMe for SF DA reporter https://www.gofundme.com/f/report-on-chesa-boudin-san-francisco-crime The Verge - Entire school board resigns in shame after forgetting their WebEx call was public https://www.theverge.com/tldr/2021/2/21/22294457/oakley-school-board-resigns-zoom Show Notes: 0:00 Markets tank, reasons for optimism in the short-term 15:29 Breaking down the stimulus 24:12 California's COVID emergency stimulus mishaps, political manipulation via "Zeroism" 38:27 Biological Patriot Act, freedom of choice post-vaccination 49:23 Newsom recall update, SF DA Chesa Boudin's high school friend responds to Sacks, SF bureaucratic issues 1:00:33 Grading Biden's first 60 days in office, Oakley School Board mishap, teacher's union issues, Jason's red pill bender

I got a count of the other another another billion dollars I lost I've lost two two billion dollars in the last two days It's recording please record this looks like we Looks like we need a poker game tomorrow Imagine how tilted to Tremoth is gonna go in the market. Yeah, he's gonna be he's gonna be in the markets He's gonna buy it for two million just to try and get even Like your winners Rainman David for what your winner's hide. Bring man David Sack. I'm going home.

And it said we open source into the fans and they've just got the reason with WSIS. We look in one. I'm going home. Leave. Hey everybody, hey everybody,

welcome to another episode of the All in Podcast. We took a week off. And boy, that was sad. I missed you guys. I missed my besties. We should tell people we had a we had a small medical procedure for one of the besties and but everything's good and it was planned. So you know nothing nothing out of the ordinary, but we just needed to take a week off. That's why we missed a week and that's why we're back. Yes. And one of the besties, got it, got so many jokes, I'm not going to tell. All the jokes that came into my mind right now would get you canceled. We'll get you canceled.

Really? I only had seven jokes, I can't tell any of them. Based on the amount of money that I've lost in the last two days, I'm ready to get canceled. So it's fun. I'm just going to let them rip. All right, everybody. David Sacks, the rain man is here calling in from an undisclosed compound.

Shreveberg, the queen of quinoa, back in action. And the dictator himself licking his wounds, checking his, checking the Apple stock app, hitting refresh, and going, thank God these companies have fundamentals because I haven't seen this much Blood since Game of Thrones Jason honesty at this run rate. I can lose a trillion dollars To mouth how do you feel today? Oh my god, I feel compared to last March when the same thing was happening.

You know, every day the market was down 10%. Well, this is what's important to remember. We made a joke. It was like it could only go down 10% so many days in a row. March 31st, you guys have to remember that March 31st of 2020, the headlines, all over the press and you can, you know,

go to the way back machine and look at these things. But the Dow was down 20 some odd percent. The S&P was down 20 percent, and it looked like the world was going to end, and then we had our first big stimulus bill and things started to look, China started to reopen slowly, and things started to look better. And what's interesting is you have this rotational

sort of de-leveraging that's happening right now. People are repricing in inflation. People are moving into sort of these, you know, overlooked stories getting out of growth a little bit. And it's a blood bath. But I would just I would just encourage us all to remember that we were in some pretty dark days in March of last year as well. And you know, when you looked at it by the end of the year,

it looked amazing. So I would just add to that, the markets are looking pretty grim for tech stocks right now, but this all started because of a really great jobs report showing that the economy is roaring back. So we added 379,000 jobs in February, which beat expectations by 200,000. They also revised the January gains up 166,000. So now the unemployment rate is down

to 6.2%. Remember it was at like 15% you know last summer during the lockdowns for COVID. So I mean all of this is fundamentally due to I think really great news in the economy because COVID is ending and which kind of begs the question of why we need another $1.9 trillion stimulus bill. But I think that ultimately there's a lot of good news in the real economy and what investors are doing is figuring out how to now price or reprice all these different stocks in light of the economy roaring back. So just a little math lesson to build on what you're saying. Everybody has a risk-free rate, and all stocks are priced according to that risk-free

rate. And for the last year, particularly when risk-free rates were essentially zero to negative, meaning that's the riskless money that you get from the government, it was hard to do anything except belong growth stocks in a big, big way. But David, to your point, if we get two or three more quarters of these kinds of jobs numbers, you're going to have a, you know, low single digit unemployment number. And what that means is wages will have to go up for businesses to compete. And that's the kind of traditional form of inflation that actually reprices things because

then you lever up rates to kind of control inflation. When you lever up rates and you know all of a sudden they're not zero but they're 2, 3, 4, 5, 6%. This is sort of what brought the tech bubble to a halt in 2000, which is that you know you had 6% real rates. And so you can't own businesses that are projecting revenues, let alone profits in 2026. When you can invest your money in a bond,

it makes 6%. 6% and that's what, so just for folks that don't know, this week started with this big bond sell off. And what that means is bonds that used to yield 0% when you sell them, they're now yielding 10 year treasuries, I think, are at one and a half points, right?

And so as an investor, if I can make one and a half percent with no risk by owning US treasuries over the next 10 years, that may feel like a better bet than owning some risky asset, some speculative company. Now the other thing that that it has done and Timoth, correct me if I'm off on this, but what I'm hearing is that that higher rate, because bonds sold down, because people are expecting inflation to come back up, the interest rates to borrow money are going up. And so if you're a hedge fund or an institutional money manager over the last year or so, you've

been able to borrow money for 0%. You can lever up your portfolio and buy as many stocks as you want without paying any interest on it. And now that rates are creeping back up, people are delivering. They're taking risk off. And that's causing a sell off in both bonds and stocks. And especially on the speculative end of the market where there's been obviously unchecked kind of investment capital growing in. No, you're absolutely right. Like, look, at the end of the day, the cost of borrowing for a company goes up. What that's really saying is the investor that's lending them the money has other alternatives.

And so then, they're willing to charge you more and more for this capital. And as that happens, you'll see some companies get into potentially some real trouble, because they're going to be borrowing money at rates where they can't necessarily generate the cash flows in the future to pay those things back. At the same time, as you said, if you look at the SPAC market has taken a real beating, what are SPACs really? In many ways, SP, facts are synthetic bonds. And the reason is because if you go and buy a one share of any spec, you have the ability to redeem that if you don't

like the deal that it does and get back your coupon. So you're a notional. So if you were to buy a government German bond at negative 1% or by any SPAC where you can put that same, you know, $10 to work and get back $10. Well, you do that versus getting back $9.90. So in many ways, like, you know, the SPAC market benefited from rates at zero because you could synthetically be long SPACs as almost the way it being synthetically long fixed income. Now as rates go up, that's not true. So what that leaves in the spack market are actually people who want to own

long-term equity. And if you combine that with what we just said, which is the cost of capital going up and the discount rate going up, now all of a sudden companies need to be really real. And you're seeing that because if you look at the companies that have just announced spack deals just in the last few days, their stocks have gotten absolutely obliterated. And they're right on because if you look at the companies that have just announced SPAC deals just in the last few days their stocks have gotten absolutely obliterated and They're right on the knife's edge going into the redemption period So if you have one or two more months of this where all of a sudden bonds look better and You know some of these SPACs Post announcement, but pre-deaf backing go through you know bucks a share, people just redeem for $10.

And you'll have a bunch of busted IPOs. By the way, another thing we're seeing, sorry, Jason, but another thing I think we're seeing right now is in the near term is a feedback loop. So as selling takes place, what happens is market participants are jumping in and short selling and participating in the trend of that stock. And so there are these kind of experiences that are underway where it's not just about a sell-off of owners, but it's also about a momentum trade that a lot of people are playing into.

And so there is a very short term, extremely compounded effect of the de-levering that's happening and the cycling that's happening in these markets. And so it's super volatile and probably will be for a little bit of time here, right? I think so. I think we need to figure out whether there's really whether there's a real inflation drag and cooking someplace. If there really is inflation, like again, you have to think like the trillions of dollars we put into the economy eventually has to come out in productive goods and services. And all of that excess capital will probably inflate prices. Now it begs a different question, which is we maybe we've just actually been missing inflation

all along, because if you ask somebody who lives in a city, you know, what the cost of rent has been, that thing has been inflating by it feels like 20% a year for years. So, you know, in healthcare and education costs. And healthcare is a very-month one, so maybe we've just done a really terrible job in the last few years of actually measuring inflation the way it should be. You know, it's calling this whole basket of, you know, you know, CPI X energy, like, I mean, it's kind of nutty. Maybe the whole thing just made no sense a few years ago. If you look to David's point, and David gave me just a huge bag of red pills while we were off this week, so I've been just, I've been on a bender on these red pills.

But if you look at those three categories, what do they have in common? Education, healthcare and housing, massive regulation. And then if you look at the things that have gone down, consumer goods, electronics, food, et cetera, or have stayed flat in terms of inflation, those are things that the free market participates. The government is not involved. And it's not just the fact there's a lot of government regulation in things like healthcare and education. It's also that the government pays for a significant portion of it. And so

there's no reason for the people who are building the government to keep costs down. I mean, this is why the price of education of a college degree keeps going up is because the government's paying for a lot of it. I say, David, you probably, I think you may have seen this, but when we announced our merger with Clover for IPOC, one of the first slides I put up there was the only place in the market since 2010 where you would have made more money than being long Facebook and Google

and Apple and Amazon was being long, United Healthcare, SIGNA, Wellsbring. And the reason is because healthcare was this incredible thing, post-Obama care. Nobody wants to talk about it on the left because it makes it look terrible. But we created massive price inflation. And United Healthcare was a $30 billion company right before... Narrative violation, be careful. Right before Obamacare passed, today it's a $330 billion company.

And the level of growth that they and Etna and Signan and Wellsbring, these companies have seen is astounding. So these highly regulated, systems know, systems of societal infrastructure. Oh, that's where all the gains have been regulatory capture writ large. Right. Well, as soon as the government is paying for it, all the suppliers know they can increase their prices. Why wouldn't they? So what happens is the government tries to make something free for people and all they end up doing is making it really expensive.

Well, they make it, they make it, they make it expensive in this very convoluted way, which is hard to track, right? Because it's like, who's actually paying? Well, the insurance companies want to just book more revenue. Even if they're gross aggregate profit grows much, much more slowly, they'd rather make the same amount of profit on a billion dollars versus a hundred million dollars. So what do they do? Their incentive is to just jack prices up.

Who are paying those prices? Companies pay those prices. Who bears those costs? All of this stuff is really not clear because ultimately downstream, somebody has to pay for this stuff. Taxpayers. And it's all obscuraified. I mean, look at the tense story that we were sharing on our group, group thread, $61,000

for San Francisco to put people into tents with a no big contract. One question I have for you all is, if we look back the last time we were at 6% unemployment July 2014, we look at the unemployment graph. It's spiked up to, as we discussed, 15% and it has plummeted back down now to the 6% rate. If we look back on this moment in time and how quickly the economy is recovering from this disaster that we've never experienced before, it looks like this recession is gonna be recovered and we're already back in business in such a short period of time compared to

what happened in the Great Recession and the Dockcomb boom. So is America and the US dollar and the economy antifragile now to use a teleb term? What how do we look at what happened with the economy? Did Trump do everything right with the stimulus? This is a complete outlier in the following way. In a typical recession, what has to happen is, so you have a contraction in the economy,

but you don't know when the bottom is. The bottom is some number of months in the future. And government policy is basically trying to create a soft landing where all of a sudden the cost of capital is low enough now where people say, ah, on the margin now, this incremental dollar, I would rather borrow and invest, which drives growth, which can then get the economy growing. And so, you know, how does a government deal with that? They are looking at economic data and saying, okay, you know what, let me cut rates. I'll cut rates again. I'll cut

rates again. And that's really the one tool that they have in their toolbox because they're trying to predict in the future how many rate cuts do I need to get or have rather, how big do they need to be until I get to that place where you bottom out. The pandemic was the exact opposite because in many ways we actually hit the bottom in month one because we said everything go to zero right now. Right? When you shut everything down, you technically can't have less economic activity than zero. Yeah. And so, and so in many ways, you price the bottom on day one, boom. And in hindsight, you know, the, the real insight would have been to see that and say, I'm

buying this moment because it only gets better from here. So in, in one way, it's like all of the tools are actually now, we need to think about them in opposite. And I don't think we have that training to do that well. So we're still going back to the same toolbox, which is why what David said is so true. You know, we're thinking about incremental stimulus as like a way to get to a soft landing,

but we've already actually taken the hard medicine a year ago. So let's tackle that, SACs. Should we, and let's take virtue signaling and populism out of this discussion just on an economic basis, is it necessary to send every American another 600,000, 2,000, knowing what we know today

with the unemployment rate going down or would be better off taking that capital and deploying it in education, unemployment, or something else. Well, first of all, it's 1.9 trillion that we don't have or borrowing it. I mean, I would extend unemployment for people in those hard-hit sectors haven't come back yet, but most of this money is going for blue state bailouts of cities that are totally mismanaged. This is not going to help states like California or C like Cernars go get their house in order because it's going to bail them out and defer that day of reckoning from their

chronic mismanagement. So we're borrowing money. We don't have to bail out people, cities and states that don't really deserve it. I do think we should help the people who've been impacted, but it doesn't require too trillion. And look, here's the thing, we're already down to 6% unemployment. We're going to be down to, I'd say, probably 3 or 4% in two quarters. I mean, the economy is coming roaring back. And the reason it's coming roaring back is because COVID is ending, right? So the biggest announcement recently, and I think this is playing into what's happening in the stock market as well, is that Biden announced that every American who's over the age of 16 who wants a vaccine will be able to get one by the end of May by end of May. I mean, we're gonna have What we would have in the fall

Yeah, right while you were Six months off this just yeah when he came in office in January is saying the worst is not over blah I mean that was clearly saying back saying the worst is not over. I mean, that was clearly sandbagging. The worst was over. And we're gonna have 300 million doses by end of May. And the only reason why everybody won't be able to get one is because of states that are creating these ridiculous hoops to get through. Confiscating them.

Yeah, exactly. Like California right now has 3 million doses sitting on a shelf because of all the crazy hoops that Gavin Newsom has everyone going through because he wants to score brownie points on equity, right? So if the government would just get out of the way, let everyone who wants to get a vaccine get one without worrying about making sure the exact right person in the exact right line gets one first. This thing will be over by Memorial Day over. Now look, there'll still be be a case here there for sure. I'm not saying there'll be zero case of COVID, but there'll be zero pandemic understood as such.

By the way, I'll also say one other important point about the stimulus one that SACs made. Yesterday, the CBO put out a projection. This is the budget office, I think Congress, and they said that the US national debt is likely to reach 202% of GDP by 2051. So the amount of debt that the US government will own is 2X, the amount of all the revenue generated by all of the industries in the US in about 30 years. That's an insane statistic. And the reason that people look at GDP or debt to GDP is because you have to pay your debt down at some points. You owe some interest on that debt, you have to pay it down,

and every year you have to generate revenue to pay the bondholders. And how does a federal government generate revenue that either issues more debt or taxes? And in order to meet a 202% level of debt relative to GDP, you end up raising taxes so significantly as a percent of GDP to cover the interest payments and the principal payments every year that you end up stalling out the economy, cutting important services, etc. And so we're in a circumstance now where the benefit we're

going to get from taking on this additional debt relative to economic growth and stimulus doesn't actually outweigh the cost of that debt. And we're facing a fiscal crunch at some point in the next decade or two. And there is this this big question markout standing right now on a global stage is the dollar really the safest place to be does everyone really want to be dollar denominated. If this is the circumstance that the US federal? To be, does everyone really wanna be dollar-denominated? If this is the circumstance that the US federal government is gonna be facing, here's a question for Tramoth that I'm curious about.

If the government is buying all this debt, shouldn't they be buying some amount of equity as well so they can profit from? Oh, the government's issuing debt, Jason. No, I know, but isn't the government also going into the market and buying up corporate debt through all of this? No, they shouldn't have profits coming from that. So there was a risk last year where corporates may not have been able to fund their obligations.

And so the government basically said, we're going to be the buyer of the last resort and step in. And it's like, effectively, what they did was they essentially froze the credit markets because if you were going to then bet on some of these companies not being able to raise capital, you would have gone to the worst part of the stack or you would have bet actually that there was going to be the state transition. So meaning debt is very tightly scripted as AAA plus, you know, AA, A minus. And these transitions from these tiers of like investment grade to junk to whatever are huge events. And basically the

government said, no, everybody take your chips and go home because we are going to backstop companies like Ford or whoever, folks that were teetering. And so they effectively said, this is going to be, you know, until I tell you, otherwise, a rigged game, I'm going to make sure I backstop these things. These companies will always be able to have money. So my question though, Chimath is, if the government is going to do that and take that risk, shouldn't they get some warrants or some upside in the company's future success to then create a virtuous cycle here that if they did backstop it, maybe they had warrants for

5% of the company, like you would give if you were doing a debt instrument. They could probably do it if they were a direct lender and they had that chance and they didn't really do it in 2008 when they did it. I mean, maybe they could have done it in a better way. Here when you enter the open market, there's no such contract. And so you can't negotiate that.

Look, I want to sort of talk about something slightly related to this, which is if you actually looked at that $1.9 trillion stimulus bill The thing that makes the most sense and I think nobody would complain about was saying let's give a means-based test where the poorest Americans get the most money call it five or six thousand and the richest Americans get nothing and I think nobody would disagree with that And if you added up all of that money, it's probably on the order of $500 or $700 billion. If you did it, if you did a really expansive package. And I think people would, I mean, all of us would raise our hands and say, we shouldn't get a fucking dime. And I mean, you know, people, other people should be getting many multiples of 1400. Okay. Why should anybody who wasn't impacted, Sacks, get anything?

Like if you were not impacted. Yeah, of course, of course, you're in Luzha job. You stay home, you're not spending money. Why should you get anything? Because I think that's all the money going into NFTs and making bets on GameStop and doing all this. Of course, you know, shenanigans with Bitcoin. Of course, look, this is Ramma manual 2.0. Remember, Ramma manual back in the 2008 2009 financial crisis said never let a crisis go to waste. This is now never let a crisis reach its end, right? They don't

want it to be over because this crisis is a justification. Yeah, this crisis is the justification for this piggy bank of spending that this wish list they wanted to pass for a long time. Very little of it actually has to do with helping the very little. Very little. In fact, if you actually look at the breakdown of this $1.9 trillion bill, it's every typical bill. It has a better title, but ultimately it's a bunch of pork barrels. By the way, there's a bunch of insanity in there like COVID testing.

I mean, guess what? We don't need to test anyone for COVID in about 30 years. Yeah, you throw those tests away. We need the $6.000,000,000 we could say. You know, and the list goes on, but I think the point is what SACs is making is totally true. We're continuing to latch on to the COVID pandemic crisis as a means to an end.

And we're not really solving any problems that are outstanding as the COVID pandemic and the risks, remember, let's just go back a year. If you guys remember, the reason we shut down the economy was to flatten the curve. There was no assumption we were going to end COVID. The idea was, let's make sure that the healthcare system doesn't get overwhelmed with people dying, where we can't handle as many people in ICU beds. And now we're in a situation where we're saying, you still can't go outside.

ICU beds are largely open. You still have to do X and Y and ZD. We still need to be testing everyone. And all of those risks and considerations should be coming off the table as more people have had COVID and more people have gotten vaccinated. And instead, we're using the fear that's been embedded in us over the past year

as a mechanism to drive spending in a way that is clearly economically unsustainable, ultimately counterproductive, and unfortunately is being used as a mechanism for keeping folks in office and paying back their friends and all this other sort of nonsense. It's gone on.

Freeberg, you had a breakdown of, it's by the way, because it's not just the federal stimulus bill, the California breakdown of what they spent, sane, do you have that? Do you have that? Can you fill it up? What I'm gonna do is I'm gonna send the link because it was through a FOIA request.

They were forced to list it. So California had an emergency declaration. Joe, a total fucking joke. Through that emergency declaration, it gave the governor the power and the ability to enter into no bid contracts to meet the demands of the quote unquote emergency. And the contracts that were entered into are all publicly listed and available in a link that I will share with you guys and it'll be available online. I don't think a reporter has done what needs to be done, which is to go through those contracts and identify how much

money was spent on what and where and why that money was spent and who ended up benefiting from it. Some of these contracts, including for example, $1.9 billion to Perkin Elmer to provide nasal swabs and other reactive chemistry needed to run COVID tests with an overflow capacity of their lab of 4,000 tests a day, which by the way costs a few thousand dollars. For $1.9 billion, and ultimately California didn't really do any of the testing, it was done by private labs. Where did that $1.9 billion go? There was another amount of money. There was a $100 million spent on Accenture

to build the vaccination website, no bid contract. $100 million for a free-grain-grain-grain-grain-grain-grain-grain-grain-grain-grain-grain-grain-grain-grain-grain-grain-grain-grain-grain-grain-grain-grain-grain-grain-grain-grain-grain-grain-grain-grain-grain-grain-grain-grain-grain-grain-grain-grain-grain-grain-grain-grain-grain-grain-grain-grain-grain-grain-grain-grain-grain-grain-grain-grain-grain-grain-grain-grain-grain-grain-grain-grain-grain-grain-grain-grain-grain-grain-grain-grain-grain-grain-grain-grain-grain-grain-grain-grain-grain-grain-grain-grain-grain-grain-grain-grain-grain-grain-grain-grain-grain-grain-grain-grain-grain-grain-grain-grain-grain-grain-grain-grain-grain-grain-grain-grain-grain-grain-grain-grain-grain-grain-grain-grain-grain-grain-grain-grain-grain-grain-grain-grain-grain- vaccination program that he was running, which obviously highlights just how a net this whole process is. There was another incredible multi-hundred million dollar contract entered into for a guy, and then I looked up his address on Google Maps, and I looked at his home in his office. It's in like a strip mall next to a donut shop, and this guy is the guy, he's technically a doctor, but not really a practicing doctor, who got paid hundreds of millions of dollars

to source overflow, overflow hospital and doctor capacity for prisons in California. In Sain, the ship that's in there. And so, the total kind of, I think mismanagement of capital and obviously inability to kind of manage through a crisis gets taken advantage of. Yeah, by the way, I think the fiscal, the federal COVID stimulus looks very similar

in terms of the pork and other nonsense that's going on in there makes yeah Hey mainstream media instead of fucking grinding me about you know a couple hundred million dollars of share sale So that I can allocate it to fucking climate change. Why don't you do your god damn job and fucking tell this story Yeah, no because this would take one joke. Don't get your signaling points a joke. I'll post the link now I need more red pills. What a joke. Get me those red pills from Miami. So there's one article like at your right, Jamoth. Like there's so many scandals, by the way,

there was one just reported in the San Francisco Chronicle about how the city of San Francisco paid $16 million to pay for something like 260 tents or something like that. Tents, totalless people. It was $60,000 of Burning Man. You just, it was $60,000 per tent. You could build an ADU for that. Guys, I have an entire gaggle of reporters sweating

every single fucking share that I buy or sell. And these people, no, no, I don't. This is fucking stupid. And there's truly even dollars of swashing around like what it was all third world fucking banana republic. Kind of go ahead. So Francisco is that's all this money. All this money. All this money was dished out according to no bid Contract. So to basically there was not a competitive bidding process because there was a COVID emergency. And so yeah, look, I mean, all of Newsom's big backers in the healthcare industry got these

giant no-bid contracts, these, you know, the homeless industrial complex service providers in San Francisco got these giant contracts. None of it was bit out. And the politicians would love to be able to keep this going because they've never had more power. They've never had more degrees of freedom to reward their political supporters. So, think there was one really good article. I just want to bring up here. That was by Jonathan Chape. Oh, this is the intelligence here in the New Yorker. Yeah. The New York New York magazine. And why not? Yeah, his article is called zero COVID risk is the wrong standard. And he defines a term called zeroism. What what shape rights is he he describes zeroism as the following he says zeroism is an inability to

conceive of public health measures in cost-benefit terms. The pandemic becomes an enemy that must be destroyed at all costs. And any compromise could lead to death and is therefore unacceptable. So in other words, if like one person might die, then we need to continue all these emergency measures. And this is a thing is that, look, COVID as a pandemic is gonna be over by June, okay? But there will always be cases of COVID. It's gonna return as a seasonal illness.

And the question is, are we going to allow zeroism to be the policy every year? We basically give these politicians unlimited power to do lockdown shutdowns, no big contracts, and on and on and on. You already see with the teachers unions, right? The education unions are refusing to go back to work even after their members are vaccinated. Yeah, saying that there must be 14 days of no, meaning zero community spread before they can safely return. So the teachers unions or the education unions are saying is, we're not going to go back to work. We want paid vacation until there's zero cases. Well,

this is not realistic. I mean, I, I, I went to get my daughter's passport updated at USPS. They're working. While I was driving there, I saw all kinds of infrastructure, it was happening. We pay into a system that's supposed to guarantee in return some level of commitment by individuals that buy into that same system. Teachers are part of that.

You can't have a get out of jail free card whenever you want to just say no, we're going to change the rules. And it applies to everybody else. The firefighters have to show up. The cops have to show up. The ambulance people have to show up. The nurses show up. You know, the US drivers, Bart, everybody. Dr. Show is going to work, but these people, the fucking teachers, the teachers should, parents should take their kids out of school. That's what they should do. And then do what Jason, how are most people?

Basically, if you have parents, if people work, no, no, but if you've got five or six parents together and they don't have time for that, Jason, what are you talking about? This is like, no, let me finish my sentence. Five or six parents get together. And if they had, if they had, what do you call it when you give parents a little bit of money for school voucher systems? The voucher system would then create the competition.

If six or seven families could get five, 10K each and then run their own little bubble school, their micro school, this could actually put pressure. That's not gonna happen. Well, it's not gonna happen, but you actually have a pretty good point. What Newsym should do is he should go to these unions and say, listen, if you're not going to go back and you're not going to teach, no problem. We're going to take the money

that we give to your schools and give them out of his vouchers and let the parents do what they want. In other words, we're going to break your union. That is what he needs to do. It's time to break the union. The problem with Newsom is that his biggest contributor, single biggest contributor is the education union, right? And so look, he has publicly said that, yes, I'm in favor of school's reopening, but it's not enough for you to espouse the opinion that schools should go back.

I mean, you're the governor. You need to go make that happen. You need to go tell the teachers unions, you must go back right now because there is no incremental COVID risk to the teachers They've seen this now that states which have open schools have not seen an increase in COVID There is no science to support this. He's to tell him go back right now or we're gonna break your union He will not do that because he's an employee of those unions and by the way, I have an update

I have an update on the on the recall if you guys want it. No wait Let's get to it in one second because I do want to just say, well, first off, I want to make an observation that we are turning into the rational rush limbaugh. We're all kind of yelling violent. Yes, but it's kind of a little bit silly, but I am just observing the tone here a little bit. I will say, like, if you guys remember, we talked about this like last year, which is, you know, what will life be like post COVID, post the pandemic? And if you guys remember,

I said this, and I still firmly believe it, and I think we're now seeing it play out, which is that the fear that gets created by the actual crisis will persist in terms of the subconscious behavior of the population for a long period of time. That's what happened after 9-11. The insanity that went on with the TSA and security checking and racism against brown people and everything that arose post 9-11 persisted for a very long time as a result of the shock that we all experienced. I don't think people were very cognizant of it occurring.

It was just like, oh, well, this is now the normal way of life. Everyone is so fearful of catching COVID and they've been so kind of trained and told that they're going to die from COVID that we're finding ourselves in a circumstance where anything can then be rationalized. And those folks that then have power and the ability can magnify the circumstances into something that it seems kind of shocking and absurd if you put on kind of a rational hat. But this is just one manifestation of what I think will be the case. We were, we all know people that have been vaccinated that are more than two weeks since their second shot of vaccination, who are still scared of doing things like being around other people or going into grocery stores because, quote unquote, there may be a chance that there may

be a variant that may not work on the vaccine that I may get that may end up killing me. And if you actually do the math on it, and you think about it rationally, you're not gonna get COVID and you're not gonna die, but there's a chance, therefore I'm gonna change my behavior. And that's part of what I think we're seeing manifests at a very large scale, is this like trained fear mind that we all have

at this point, and policy and everything. And by the way, the $1.9 trillion stimulus is in part kind of empowered by this fear that we all have. I disagree, slightly. So look, is there going to be some PTSD from COVID? Yeah, I'm sure there will be. But I think people are ready to get out with a vengeance. And I think people, and the problem is not that people are afraid, but that the people

doing the health establishment, doing the messaging is not out there telling afraid, but that the people doing, the health establishment doing the messaging is not out there telling us the right things. I mean, you've got Fauci out there telling people that even after they're vaccinated, they cannot take off their masks until 2022 that they're not gonna be able to dot, no, seriously, they're not gonna be able to dine indoors. They can't go to a movie, a concert, or a sporting event,

and they can't socialize indoors except with other also vaccinated people This is what Fauci is saying. I mean, so no wonder you've got so many people out there saying that they're gonna wait and see whether the vaccine works or not Well, because effectively Fauci and the health establishment. They're being so cautious in their guidance are effectively Giving anti-vax messaging. They're basically saying that the vaccines don't work very well, which is just stupid. I mean, they all be going out saying nobody has died, who has been gotten a shot. Nobody has gone to the ICU who's gotten vaccinated. Nobody's been on a ventilator who's been vaccinated. Am I correct with those three statements? Yes, they need to say, if you take it, it's no ICU, no ventilator, if you have the shot.

What we need to be saying is very simple, which is if you've been vaccinated, you will not die. If you've been vaccinated, you will not die. Put that on a billboard and everyone's going to want to get vaccinated. You know, only 55% of the population right now says that they're going to get vaccinated as soon as they can. I'm wondering a billboard right now from the besties. I think that just says if you're vaccinated billboard right now from the besties. I think that just says, if you're vaccinated, you won't die the besties.

I think it's pretty reasonable that individuals would still be afraid. Because I think we learned over the last year that we can't trust the institutions that are supposed to tell us in an objective way. Meaning you can't trust a WHO, you can't trust an NIH, you can't trust a CDC, you can't necessarily trust a search general, you couldn't trust the president.

Very complicated, right? So I think it's reasonable that people are skeptical. What I think is unreasonable is when, you know, sort of like organized unions or organizations or corporations who have a responsibility to run the infrastructure of this country. Basically say, all these rules apply to everybody else but me. That's where I think we have to really just kind of question ourselves and fix that. That's not cool. It's just fundamentally not reasonable.

So we have Biden saying that everyone who wants a vaccine will be able to get one by end of May. We have Gavin Newsom saying that most of the state, but not all of it, will reopen in August. Well, wait a second, you know, May, June, July, August, why is there like a three month gap here? It's because of the zeroism. I mean, I think Newsom has embraced the zeroism. If not zeroism, what's the number? We have 8,000 people die a day in America on average, historically. If soon as everyone... If it's under 500 deaths a day, should we be going back?

That's not even the question. That's not even the question. Once everyone can get a vaccine, it's over. If you choose not to get the vaccine, like sorry, it's on you. We're moving on. I agree. We're down.

That's a good question. The equivalent of zero is, would be no one's allowed to drive a car because people die in cars all the time. A lot of cars have to be 35 miles an hour. Or they, or yeah, or no one's allowed to drink alcohol because alcohol has some adverse effect or increases chance of cancer or whatever or whatever.

At some point, like do you end up, you just triggered Chimoff? No, sorry Chimoff. No wine? Nice Bordeaux and Burgundy doesn't give you cancer. That's not what the wine budget post-spac apocalypse. I mean, it's gonna take a lot of, it's gonna take a lot of more billions before I stop drinking my wine.

Um, question, I want to throw this into the scrum. What do you guys think about? I, by the way, I mean, also we're all just so punchy because we didn't talk last week. Totally. So now we're all so agitated and excited. We're all excited. We're all excited. We're all excited to talk.

Oliver Wise have been telling us what to do. We had nobody to vent with, and now we're just going crazy. It's like a bunch of 12-year-old boys who are on time out. It's like, we've been in a two week time. We need to get our bikes, we go for a bike ride. No, no, guys, honestly, like, have you guys, like, I have not gotten a word in edgewise with Matt for two weeks. And I was so looking forward to talking to you guys.

I'm like, I want to talk. No, but listen, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, like, I want to talk. No, but listen, uh, no, no, what do you guys? What do you guys think about the, uh, the, the biological patriot acting? You know, there's these vaccination passports that people are talking about. I just want to get a sense of where you guys think this is going and, and I don't want you to think about this. This is the slippery slope that I think ends all slippery slopes with respect to privacy, right? So the, I think it was proposed in the EU that you would need to get a digitally verified passport stamp that shows that you have been vaccinated in order to travel freely amongst other EU nations.

If you think about the implications of this, now the government or governments have the ability to demand that in order for you to move around freely, you need to represent something digitally or represent something about some healthcare procedure that you may or may not want to kind of take on. So that's how everyone kind of nods their head and says that seems totally reasonable and rational. It's COVID, we're all at risk. We should protect ourselves.

I want to, yeah, yeah, but where does this go next, right? Because then it becomes, well, have you had your measles vaccine? Or, hey, do you have herpes? And therefore you have to show someone your herpes passport if you wanna have sex with them or end up kind of going to a point where we really don't have a barrier between what's private and what's nationalized

or even super nationalized in the context of the EU. And is there kind of a slippery slope that emerges by allowing this amount of invasiveness of personal decision- making and personal data and making it available to government agencies in order to have access to the liberties that you believe may be endowed to you as an individual citizen of the world.

So what do we do? What do we do? Well, I just think proposals like this are, I think they're gonna fade away very quickly once COVID is over. And the real issue we have right now is that not enough of the population wants to get vaccinated because again, the health authorities are being much too conservative in their guidance. So there's some polling numbers on this that so only 15% of the public are actually opposed

to getting the vaccine, like you kind of call them anti-vax, but there's another 20 to 30% that are taking this weight and see approach, and you know, they're going to make sure that like other people go first and don't sprout tails or antlers or something before, you know, they're going to be willing to get it. But the reason why they're all waiting and seeing is because you've got, you know, Fauci and others saying that we're not going to have normalcy until Christmas or maybe even 2022. So if that's the case, if things aren't gonna be normal till next year, why wouldn't you wait, you know?

And I think what we need to be saying is, look, go get the vaccine. We're everyone who wants this to be able to get it in the next two months. And COVID is over. It's over, guys. But, Zach, if there is a digital passport requirement in the EU, where do you think that goes? Like if if you have to show proof of a vaccination order to ask the EU

without quarantine, where do you put it? Yeah, it's not a great precedent, but I don't know that it's going to be necessary, because I just think that COVID is going to end. There is a self so quickly. It's a, I like Sachs's point of view, which is if you decide you're not going to do this, then you've put yourself at risk. But if nobody else can die from it, why do we need to check it? I understand like maybe in this bridge period, spring to summer, if you go to a Warriors game or a next game, where you want to go to Burning Man or the EDC, electronic daisy,

Carnival, whatever, Freeberg goes to, when he goes to his raves. I mean, Freeberg at a rave is kind of the video we need to see, I think. But why would, that's fine with me in the short term, but in the long term, I don't want to give them that power. Look what happened with the Patriot Act and then then monitoring our data forever and the government being able to put, you know, what Snowden found out, like they were able to put on the AT&T backbone the ability to sniff all data I mean it's overreaching last January or February

I think Jason it was one of our first pods where I kind of put this marker out there on this biological Patriot it said it's coming I'm gonna put another marker out there By the way because like you know there may be something like this in New York. I think most cities will have to have them. I think places, Jason, exactly as you say, for sporting events, for concerts. It'll be very hard as a number of strains increase as the severity ebbs and flows over time for us to not end up in this place. And I think it will be because certain people will feel a paternalistic desire to sort of, you know, it'll come from a good place.

Like, I want to help everybody, but they'll pass a law and that law will just get perturbed and it'll create all kinds of crazy consequences. But I want to put another cheat out there, which is, you know, there was a really important civil rights case called Masterpiece Cake Shop versus Colorado Civil Rights Commission. Who went to the Supreme Court and it was basically a guy who owned a bakery and he refused. I think it was to make a cake for a same-sex couple. And ultimately, you know, the decision was, yeah, he's allowed. The Supreme Court gave a very narrow ruling that he was allowed to withhold service.

And I asked this question, which is, well, what is the difference, frankly, between withholding service from a same-sex couple or withholding service from somebody that isn't vaccinated? Because in the eyes of the business person, assuming, apparently, you're allowed to make these kinds of judgments because you're a private business. The implications, I think, are really vast.

And so I'm just gonna put it out there that I think that it's actually David, I'll take the other side. So I think that there's going to be these biological Patriot acts, unfortunately. And then the second thing that I'll say is that I do think that it will get litigated to the Supreme Court. And I think that narrowly what will come down is that businesses will be able to decide. And I think this is actually what will put the vaccination or anti-vaccination

movement to the forefront. Because I think in this complex global world where we don't know where diseases come from, except we know that they are more communicable, they can be more deadly and they're more pervasive and they spread faster just because of the nature in which the world is set up. There's probably going to be less and less tolerance for anti-vaccination. Now that may slow down the actual process of getting vaccines to market, because we'll want to make it even safer if we're going to do forced vaccinations of certain things, but I'm just going to put a, put a check out that I think

that that's going to be. Well, I don't know that we need to force people to get vaccinated, but I think that we need to recognize that once people have the option of getting vaccinated, there's no need to have the same public policy response, right? So, look, if Biden's correct that we're going to have 300 million doses by end of May, and I think he must be correct because he's been very conservative in his guidance, then we should declare a date certain for the end of COVID. I'm not saying

that the virus won't exist. I'm not saying there won't be a smattering of cases. I'm saying from a public policy perspective, there's no longer a panic, a raging pandemic, to justify these incredible new powers that the government has asserted. I mean, what would you do that thing, so the number of shots in arms or the number of deaths per day? No, it's, look, once everyone can get the vaccine,

and then I think that will be- Okay, so availability. Availability, so I mean, look, and it will be available as long as, you know, governors like Newsom get out of the way and stop Restricting the administration of it But I think we need to declare a date certain where you say listen on June 1st There is no more justification for government having these extraordinary powers to lock us down to require us

I don't think we even need to wear masks beyond June 1st and by the way I was pro-mass I was in favor of a mass mandate a year ago as you guys know, but there's no need for it after June 1st. And by the way, I was pro mass. I was in favor of a mass mandate a year ago, as you guys know, but there's no need for it after June 1st. There's no need to have these crazy new, nip-nip-nip-nip-nip-nip-nip-nip-nip-nip-nip-nip-nip-nip-nip-nip-nip-nip-nip-nip-nip-nip-nip-nip-nip-nip-nip-nip-nip-nip-nip-nip-nip-nip-nip-nip-nip-nip-nip-nip-nip-nip-nip-nip-nip-nip-nip-nip-nip-nip-nip-nip-nip-nip-nip-nip-nip-nip-nip-nip-nip-nip-nip-nip-nip-nip-nip-nip-nip-nip-nip-nip-nip-nip-nip-nip-nip-nip-nip-nip-nip-nip-nip-nip-nip-nip-nip-nip-nip-nip-nip-nip-nip-nip-nip-nip-nip-nip-nip-nip-nip-nip-nip-nip-nip-nip-nip-nip-nip-nip-nip-nip-nip-nip-nip-nip-nip-nip-nip-nip-nip-nip-nip-nip-nip-nip It's easy for people to say, let's wear a mask and protect ourselves, but if you don't care about wearing a mask But there are plenty of people who do and I think the question is at what point do we allow Liberty to kind of play a role here? And it's it's not just about you know What one person's point of view which by the way turned out to be wrong multiple times over the last year

Is in terms of what they think that other people should do and you know. And what does it mean to actually have freedom of choice and liberty? I mean, it's a really fun about being a chef. Well, I mean, if you look at states, that is a key. We have Texas has opened up and said no mass mandate. One of the things that hurt us in this was we didn't have a centralized government dictating everything.

And now we see, like, hey, maybe... Okay, so... By the way, by the way, by the way, I don't know if that's necessarily true. I'll say something about this that I think is important. It may be true that masks stop community spread of the virus, but it doesn't necessarily mean that we stop the spread of the virus. The virus still spread. We still had a lot of viral cases in the United States.

We had a lot of deaths that arose. And whatever restrictions we put in place, people still made the choice to go into other people's homes, take their mask off, enjoy free air, enjoy drinks, and give each other the virus. And that's where so much of the spread occurred. I think you guys are not confronting this really obvious thing. I think like this masterpiece cake shop thing is a really important concept. Like what happens? I'm just going to use an extreme example. If it goes to the Supreme Court, you mean? No, let's just say just say that you know Google's engineers unionize and they decide that you know They want everybody else at Google to be vaccinated

And then Google says yeah, you're right if you want to work at Google you need to be vaccinated not just for Company not just for COVID. It's a private company Not just for the way that is a rule at schools, right? I mean, I think my preschool or my kid goes here in San Francisco requires proof of vaccination for the kids in order for them to go to school. But traveling seems to be different. And see traveling in some places is on public infrastructure, some on private infrastructure.

I know, but just focus on this issue. What happens if private organizations pass a decision that you have to be vaccinated. It'll go to the Supreme Court and if you look at Masterpiece, they will come out with the right to say that. Which is fine. You can go somewhere else. Why is that a problem? Exactly. I'm just curious how this is going to end. If only half the population of America.

Well, maybe they'll lose good engineers and the free market will resolve itself with Google and I'm saying, you know what, we're not gonna pass this mandate because all the good engineers are gonna leave, so let's just leave it, leave it be. I'm more worried about the politicians trying to hold the government trying to hold on to the power that it's asserted over us over the past year,

even after COVID's gone on. That's my concern. I don't want them having a database of my medical records. No caffeine. So this is why, look, I think we need to declare a date certain that COVID as a pandemic is over. My date is Memorial Day. It's very clear to me that once everyone has the vaccine, it's over.

Just make it work. I think this is, this is when, yeah, this is when, so actually think that the Newsom recall, which will be in, will be going on this summer, this is what that election is going to turn into in my opinion is. So by the way, can I give a quick update on? Yes, please. Okay, so I talked to the recall people this morning, they're up to 1.95 million signatures. He's done. So 50,000 votes, short of 2 million, they will be at or

over 2 million in two weeks, which is the end of the signature period. Their validation rate is about 84%. So I think this is clearly going to pass. There will be a recall election. It will be around August. Now, fast forward. Newsom has said the state won't reopen until August. But I think that by May, June, July, you will see just about every other state reopen. Obviously, Texas is already completely reopened, but even blue states like Connecticut have now lifted lockdowns.

They still have a mass mandate for the time being, but I think what you could see by this summer is that California will look like a laggard. You'll see that politicians like Newsom are holding onto this zero-est philosophy. They're being too restrictive. They look ridiculous compared to other states. And he still probably won't have an agreement

with the teachers unions to go back to school. And I think this could become the big issue in the re-wild world. You want to make an announcement, Sacks? You want to make an announcement now? We have a special announcement. I'm talking to Moth. I'm making a statement. I'm making a making some of them. To Moth might be taking a hiatus from work, given where the markets are at. I thought this governor thing would be value destructive. It looks like actually

I would have saved money. I'm doing it. I'm doing it. I'm doing it. I'm back in. I'm doing it. I'm doing it. I'm doing it. I'm back in I'm back in positions. Oh my god. It's cynical, but if you I am losing so much money. Wow. In your state sacks, they can't collect signatures at the supermarket or at restaurants or Disneyland. So maybe maybe knew some shut everything down so that you can collect. Well, it's interesting because they actually found that direct mail was a very effective way of getting signatures. So they've gotten around that. But so Gavin Newsom is cutting the budget of the US Postal Service. No, look, Newsom is definitely there's going to be a recall election.

I think it'll be around August. And now there's recall efforts underway for Chesa, Boudin, the killer DA, the killer DA of San Francisco. underway for Chesa, Boudin. The Killer DA. The Killer DA of San Francisco. Oh, as well as Gascone and LA and the San Francisco School Board. But we've got to talk, we've got to talk about how Boudin responded to our last pod, right? Buk-buk-buk. Oh, my lord.

David, I have three comments to say before we talk about Boudin. Number one, I've never seen you more energetic. Did you get, where are you? The red you get, where are you? Did you get, where are you? Did you get, did you get, did you get, did you get, did you get, did you get, did you get, did you get, did you get, did you get, did you get, did you get, did you get, did you get, did you get, did you get, did you get, did you get, did you get, did you get, did you get, did you get, did you get, did you get, did you get, did you get, did you get, did you get, did you get, did you get, did you get, did you get, did you get, did you get, did you get, did you get, did you get, did you get, did you get, did you get, did you get, did you get, did you get, did you get, did you get, did you get, did you get, did you get, did you get, did you get, did you get, did you get, did you get, did you get, did you get, did you get, did you get, did you get, did you get, did you get, did you get, did you get, did you get, did you get, did you get, did you get, did you get, did you get, did you get, did you get, did you get, did you get, did you get, did you get, did you get, did you get, did you get, did you get, did you get, did you get, did you get, did you get, did you get, did you get, did you get, did you get, did you get, did you get, did you get, did you get, did you get, did you get, did you get, did you get, did you get, did you get, did you get, did you get, did you get, did you get, did you get, did you get, did you get, How too much energy? I mean, how little have you spoken in the last two weeks? Has Jacqueline spoken the entire two weeks?

I know what that feels like. You're right. You're right. I need the best therapy. I didn't realize I needed this. It was a little bit of a best therapy. So is the audience. Jake, I'll free-berg.

You guys didn't know this, but Saxi and I called each other on Friday and we spoke for half an hour. And like, it was a podcast. Did you do it? You know, you were so lonely. He did. He actually conference called all four of us. I picked up and we spoke for half an hour.

It felt like a mini pod. It was so wonderful. Oh my god. Oh my god. You know what? Men are too proud to go to therapy. So they start podcast. I was telling a friend of mine.

I was telling a friend like this podcast who was kind of one of the surprising joys of my life over the last year. It really felt like a great kind of. Wait a second, you got the joy? I had joy. You're joy. We did have the joy.

I had a knowledge joy now. Okay. He's there but it's smiling. Wow, it's incredible. Okay, Sachs, go tell us about booty. Yeah, tell us about it. Okay, so yeah, let me find the tweet. So basically, you know,

remember in the last podcast weeks ago, we, Ch him was supposed to be on our pod. He canceled. And so then in response to that, Jason, hold the chicken noises for a couple of minutes. Here, hold on. So I responded to chase us saying, listen, you don't have to come on our pod, but I'll challenge you to debate. Let's do a debate, whatever format you want. And we posted it on Twitter. So he didn't respond, but by the way, it got like 180,000 views. So a lot of people watched the challenge. And so, but the crazy thing is, instead of responding directly, Chesa had a high school friend and campaign worker post a blog responding to me,

which, and Jason got mentioned too. But it was crazy. It was like, why don't you just respond directly? Anyway, he had this, this, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a,, but it was crazy. It was like, why won't you just respond directly? Anyway, he had this, this, uh, shill respond. And what he basically said was, uh, in this response was he cited all these charging statistics and he tried to claim that Chesa has charged just as many cases as the previous DA. The problem with that is charging doesn't really mean anything because you can charge someone and then plead the charges down from a felony to a mis problem with that is charging doesn't really mean anything because you can charge someone and then plead the charges down from a felony to a misdemeanor.

It doesn't mean that the person was actually punished. It doesn't mean that you locked anybody up. It doesn't mean that you actually got a conviction to a serious crime or protected the public from anything. The real question is not charging but dispositions of cases. And that's the data that we need.

And I know there's a bunch of reporters who are trying to get that data. And Chase's office won't give it to him. And so I would challenge this little Chase volunteer, go find out what is the real data on, how many felony charges have been pleaded down to misdemeanors, right? How many felonies have actually been prosecuted? How many felony convictions have been issued? Well, it's interesting you bring this up. If you do a search for

GoFundMe Chesaboot and the number one result should be the GoFundMe page I started, it now has 455 donors and $54,000 in funding. And so I am withdrawing the $54,000 and I have a meeting with the woman from the Marina Times who's done great coverage of this and I'm also looking for some data scientists and I'm going to give the money minus some insurance for when Chess assumes me and some errors and emissions insurance and I'm going to be giving the $50,000 to a journalist or a data scientist or they can spend it however they want to to attack this very issue which is just put more sunlight on it and so Chessiboutan is not happy with me, it's not happy with Sachs but we are going to put the spotlight on him.

And it will be through journalism and it will be through constant pressure. And you can help if you want to donate $100. Go just donate it to that. I'm not taking any money, obviously. This is a really interesting civics experiment, I think, for the rest of the country. And I want to say that I don't know enough of these details. I go up to San Francisco every now and then. I've not liked what I'm hearing. It's scary. It's scary. And it's great that you guys are standing up for your city. The thing is, I wonder how much of these recall movements now will pick up steam, not just here, but wherever else they're allowable all around the country. I mean, you know, the San Francisco Board of Education spent all this time and money, you know,

basically naval gazing on the renaming of schools. And then finally, just because they were just so utterly embarrassed, basically had to bag that. Could you imagine that in the most technically advanced and most progressive city in the world, basically, with the kinds of companies and people that we have here, that that's what people were thinking about during the middle of a pandemic when children are at home. Okay. You have this DA who's going to get basically recalled. In Los Angeles, you have a DA that's going to get recalled. In California, you have an entire governor of the state that's going to get recalled. So what are we learning? We're learning that people can actually, small numbers of people can be extremely effective at getting changed on.

And that they represent us and that the distance between what the public clearly wants and what some of these bought and paid for radically insane people, both on the left and the right, that needs to stop. And if people are, you know, going to not listen to their constituents, we need to stop them. People want, people want centrism. They want simple centrism. 100% reason, people want reason.

Yeah, the silliness is that the San Francisco board of education people are elected. When have any of you or any of the people that I know in San Francisco ever actually looked up who's the person on the board of education? It's not really a topic that people have paid much attention to. And I think that this experience,

when you don't pay attention from a civic perspective on who your elected officials are and take an action in electing them, you wake up when a crisis like this occurs, you're like, oh shit, maybe I should pay attention the next time there's an election, and maybe I should be more active and be more thoughtful, or maybe we should end up in a situation

where you allow the mayor or the board of supervisors to appoint the board and have an approval process where there's a little bit more kind of not just anyone that wants to get elected, puts themselves on the ballot, gets elected, no one really pays attention to who's getting elected, and then you wake up to this crisis. Isn't it true that like in the board of education, the whole thing came to a head because they were trying to like staff a committee again to waste time on some bullshit. Yeah. And some guy, some guy raised his hand and, you know, he happened to be this, you know, gay person in a mixed cultural marriage, I think, and he wanted to be a part of this committee and he had been kind of like a really good thoughtful participant. And they said no because he wasn't

diverse enough or something. Yeah, that's exactly what happened. There was a school board meeting. It started at 4 p.m., okay? 4 p.m. And this was the first issue they discussed as whether, like you said, this gay white man was diverse enough to be on a committee.

It was a committee where he was volunteering his time. Time. His good time. And everybody thought that he'd be additive. I mean, you know, everybody liked him, but they spent several hours debating whether they should put him on for diverse reasons. Because he wasn't.

He wasn't woke enough. Right, exactly. Then they spent their time talking about renaming schools and taking Abraham Lincoln's names off schools. And even renaming schools, they didn't even know why certain names were what they were. They got the people wrong. They got the people wrong. And then basically they didn't even know why certain names were what they were. They got the people wrong. They got the people wrong.

And then basically they didn't even get to the issue of school reopening until midnight. So eight hours later, and then everyone basically had gone to bed and the meeting ended. I mean, literally, this is what happened. And so the parents are upset. It's like an else get. It's like insane. It's insane. And so, you know, the parents are up in arms and this is triggering a recall movement

because the parents just want the schools reopened. And you keep getting these responses from the school board, where they keep saying, oh, we're listening to your concerns or whatever, they keep trying to process them. But they're not doing anything about it, you know, and then they say, well, in order for us to reopen, we need to establish our testing infrastructure, and we're putting an RFP out for that, and blah, blah, blah, blah. And it's like, what are you talking about? Private schools have reopened.

Just reopen, you know? Just reopen. What do you guys think about Joe Biden's first sort of 60 days in office? Executing at a high level with the vaccine. I mean, opening up all those FEMA sites and getting to 2 million shots a day on average is undeniably great. The fact that he used the War Powers Act to force Merck and to do the Johnson & Johnson and to work with Johnson & Johnson to increase production, undeniable.

I'm not happy about the teachers and him cow-towing to the teachers. I'm not happy about just the hint that he wants to start the war machine up again. Bobbi, Syria. Who here wants to bomb Syria? It's like a right of us. I don't want to talk about Syria anymore. Where the fuck is Syria? Does anybody know?

Why? What? What are we doing? That's the key issues for me. The teachers and the bombings. Does anybody know? I mean, why the what? What? What? What are we doing? I mean, that's the key issues for me. There's the teachers and the bombings. I don't want that. I say, I give them an eight out of 10. Jason, because I think the pandemic has been so well handled by him and Zients and that team. I think they've done a very good job. But those two things, those two things are huge black marks for me. Like, and Bloomberg ripped him one, you know, and Mike Bloomberg was on TV and he was just like, that is a joke. The teachers unions are jokes. And you

need to basically tear these people to the ground. You have to, they, and you cannot allow these folks to hold an entire generation of kids hostage. Okay. And then the day, I think it was the same day or the day after, unfortunately, Biden kind of capitulated to the teachers union, not cool. And then the bombing of Syria was kind of like, why? Yeah. Let's use sanctions. Let's use money. I mean, the legacy of Trump, I think, not starting wars was the one thing, and then

him, you know, just backing up the brings truck for the light speed. Those are the two best things he did. And those are two things that we should say, you know what just backing up the brings truck for the light speed. Those are the two best things he did. And those are two things that we should say, you know what? He got those things right. Let's carry those forward. We have to crack the teachers unions. The teachers union, the voucher system is the only way to do it. And it's very reasonable to say parents who are paying

shit tons of taxes should be able to take that money and educate their kids, However, they damn please. And if we're going to spend $15,000, $20,000 per student on public education, as a parent, whether you're in Brooklyn or Boise, Idaho, you should have access to that 15K. And you should take where it goes and you should take control of it.

That's the way to stop this mischugana. Jake, I had the crazy realizations, as you were saying this, which is like, if you said, if I said to you, you know, electricians union, I would say thumbs up auto workers union, thumbs up SEIU generally, thumbs up nurses unions, thumbs up. But if I say teachers union, I just have this incredibly negative connotation now of an incredibly political class of people who are going completely out of their way to basically just like have exceptions and asterisks that apply to them and them only. It's, I don't, I don't, I might be the only one that feels that way. I just seems like it's trending to where like teachers unions almost becoming a four-letter

word. Yeah. I don't think they care about teachers. They don't care about students. But you need to do a four letter word. Yeah, I don't think they care about teachers. They don't care about students. They don't care about students. But you need to do a very important job. I think you just all the students, yeah. But I think unions in general do a really important job. And I think that, you know, like all these other unions,

I have a very positive thought about what they're meant to be. You can be pro union or pro organized labor but be against this specific union. That's what I'm saying. Just like you can be pro reforming criminal justice and the unfairness of it, while still being against Chesa Buddha's insanity,

that people should be able to be murdered and killed and beaten in the street. It's unity. With impunity. Well, this is not an even, this is a completely logical position to have. I want to not put people in jail for cannabis sales and I want to remove people from non-violent offenders

from the incarceration. You can believe that while believing you should incarcerate somebody who murders somebody. This is not a hard logic to understand. Right, totally. No, you're right. I mean, it's a combination of ideology and special interests, working against common sense and what the average citizen wants, you know, and you see what

happened. You see what I've been. Republican or it's not Republican or Democrat. David, you and I agree on this. And of course, we just want common sense government that functions for the people as opposed to special interests or these radical ideologies. I want to have a couple of pops at the battery and go walk to another bar without having to fear that somebody is going to stab me for my goddamn iPhone. You know, or some poor kid is going to get attacked by somebody deranged out of their mind on fentanyl. Look, this is why Newsom's going to get recalled is because crime and education are just fundamental

issues. We do not feel safe in our cities. Crime is out of control. And we're going crazy that we can't send our kids to schools. These are issues that affect cities and suburbs. Everyone's on the same page. And I think you're right that the teachers unions have overplayed their hand and exposed themselves as not caring about the kids, just looking out for their own benefits.

They want to be on paid vacation forever effectively. And do you see, there was a great example where in Oakley, which is a town in the East Bay, the whole, they were caught on recorded on Zoom. Oh, the hot mic. Yeah, the hot, there's a hot mic, where the entire school ward was forced to resign because they got caught mocking parents

for, for quote, wanting their babysitters back so they could smoke pot. I mean, the cynicism here is unbelievable. I mean, these people are supposed to care about teaching young people and they view themselves as just babysitters. Yeah. And they view parents as donors. Yeah, I mean.

We gotta shake up this system. And the problem is, competition. We need competition. And. And the problem is, the competition, we need competition. And look, the problem is that the people that when you have unions running the schools, there's no reward for excellence. The bad people don't get fired and the good people don't get rewarded.

So they, you know, if your, pro, if you're anti-competition, you are a moron. Everything in this world gets better when people compete on the playing field in the arena to build better products and services. And in healthcare, and in education, and in housing, the government, and dare I say it, the far left is stopping people from competing. We should look at ourselves as customers.

And that's what's happening right now. People are saying, we're the customer, Gavin Newsom and Chesaiboutan, we don't want that product. That product, get the hell out of here with that product and give us something reasonable. No person who's Republican, no person who's democratic doesn't want safety and doesn't want competition education. The only people who don't want to stop competition education

are special interests, period. Hey man, man, you've been... Sorry, these red pills are fucking great. Man, these red pills, wow. These Peter-teeth red pills are... Woo! God, man, I thought Addero was good, but... God, these Miami Keith Re Roboi Peter Keele

Stanford Redpills got me lit. I'm ready to go. All right anybody give you shit about NFTs Non-fungible tokens. I mean, I think it's kind of brilliant But by the way, don't wait only have two minutes two minutes I think it's a wrap. I think it's a wrap for the Redpills. I mean that you can't beat that that was a wrap Beat some Redpills. That was hot. Can't beat some Red Pills. That was hot. When are we gonna see each other?

I can't take it anymore. I'm like a caged animal. I need to get out of here. I need to get on one of your planes. I'm doing a free bird. I'm doing a pressure plan. Get me on a plane. I'm doing a home and away poker game on Wednesday and Thursday.

Wednesday and L.A. Thursday up here, but it's 500 and 1,000 Jason. Oh, yes. Oh, huh. And you got to play both days. You got to play both days. So you can't play one or the other. You got to play both days. Oh boy.

Timoth is trying to make his billions back. I don't know if I want to be in a 500 one K game. No, I'm going to go past any different than the normal game. I mean, like, in fact, in fact, I just, you know, you can't limp in which races. I just, you're going to get demolished get four callers at yeah Yeah, Rick's all a little jump defense with the seven eight and bus I'd end left and left and left and you got Nick you got to edit all this out. No, you know The Machia King of Malibu the Malibu

Machia Machia King exactly Malibu Tell them I'll take a match with extra and all All right, everybody, for the queen of Kenwa, for Rainman, David Sachs, and for the demolished dictator. Rebuild, I believe in you, Jamal. You can rebuild it. You can rebuild that chippin' a chair. Come on, let's get back in the game, chippin' a chair. Give us another IPGH, whatever it goes.

Let's go everybody, and we'll see you next time. Love you guys. Thanks to our sponsors. Bye guys. That don't exist. Bye guys. Ditto. Love you besties.

We're like your winners ride. Rainman David Sack. I'm going on. And it said we open stores sit to the fans, and they've just gone crazy with her. Lumbi West, I squee-n-up, you know what? I'm going to Lumbi West! What?

What? What are we trying? Oh, no, I'm trying. Besties are gone. Oh, go through. That's my dog taking a wish and you're driving. Six. Oh, man, my hamlet has your wimmi-ex-wim.

We should all just get a room and just have one big hug or two because they're all good. It's like this like sexual tension that we just need to release that out. What your, that beat, what your, your beat. Beat, what? We need to get merged. I'm doing all it. I'm doing all it I'm doing all it