All There Is with Anderson Cooper - Isaiah Thomas: The Loneliness of Grief

Episode Date: May 14, 2026

Isaiah Thomas's youngest sister, Chyna, was killed in a car crash the night before he played in the 2017 NBA playoffs. In 2024, his oldest sister LaQuisha died as well. Isaiah tells Anderson Cooper he is "still struggling," but he also shares powerful insights he has learned about grief as tries to "go forward, without moving on." For more of “All There Is with Anderson Cooper” visit cnn.com/allthereis. Host: Anderson Cooper Showrunner: Haley Thomas Producers: Grace Walker, Emily Williams, Madeleine Thompson, Kyra Dahring Video Editor: Eric Zembrzuski Technical Director: Dan Dzula Bookers: Kerry Rubin and Kari Pricher Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Welcome to all there is. Wherever you are in your grief, you're not alone. I was talking with a friend of mine who doesn't listen to this podcast, and he's experienced a number of losses in his life, but he really doesn't want to think much about them, which I certainly understand. He asked me, isn't it depressing to do all these interviews all the time? And I thought about it for a moment, and then I told him the truth, which is it's not. It's sad often.

It's emotional, but these are the most real conversations that I have with people. It's one human being connecting with and learning from another about a fundamental experience that we all share. My friend didn't really want to hear more about it, but I was kind of on a roll, so I kept going. But what is depressing to me, I said. What's depressed me much of my life is not having these conversations, except with myself in my head. The loneliness of that. That, to me, is what is depressing. I really love the conversation that you're about to hear.

It's with Isaiah Thomas. He's a two-time NBA All-Star, and the fact that he's five-foot-nine inches makes that even more impressive. But what's so impressed me about him is his willingness to speak about loss and his vulnerability. Two of Isaiah's three sisters have died. His sister, Laquisha, died in 2024. And his youngest sister, China, died in 2017 on the eve of the NBA playoffs. She was killed in a car crash in Washington State. She was about to turn 23.

The day after China died, Isaiah played in game one of the Eastern Conference semifinals against the Chicago Bulls. He played with China's name written on his shoes, and in 38 minutes he scored 33 points. A few weeks later on what would have been China's 23rd birthday, Isaiah scored a career high 53 points in an overtime victory against the Washington Wizards. I spoke to Isaiah Thomas May 1st the day before what would have been China's 32nd birthday. Can you tell me about China? China was, man, we were connected like this. Like, any time I had to go to the gym, anytime I had basketball tournaments,

even if she didn't want to, like, she was the tag along. She was everywhere I was. It was always super positive and super energetic, outspoken, outgoing, and just loving. Tomorrow's her birthday, actually, she would be 32. So she had been to, like, every game. Everything. Growing up, middle school, high school, college,

Anytime I could look in the stand, she's right there with my dad. So, like, truly my biggest fan in life. There's a great video of China, and if it's okay, do you mind if we do? Yes, yeah. How you feel, this? Good? I'm good. I'm good.

Yeah, IT's apartment, man, wait for this draft to start. We got about 15 minutes. No, and Tina nervous. I've been walking around. You're just excited. You're just excited. You're just excited. Oh, I love them.

I love him. That's my big brother. So, I mean, I don't know. Words can't really express on what I can say to him. Me and I say are like this, like dreams or turn in reality, basically. So it's just showtime. That was a party for the draft. So the whole family is gathered to, you were picked, you were picked the last pick. You were picked the last pick. Yeah. I mean, what a cliffhanger. I remember my mom calling me around like the 56 pick, 57th pick. She's like, son, are you all right? And I'm like, I'm as good as I'm I'm gonna be. Like, I don't know what's going on. She said a Bible scripture, she said, the first shall be last and the last shall be first.

Around like the 58 pick. My agent called me back was like, Sacramento Kings are gonna pick you with the last pick. And all my negative emotions went out the window. Because at the end of the day, as a kid growing up, my dream was to hear my name called. Whether it was the first pick or the last pick, it didn't really matter. I was blessed and I was super thankful. I'm drafted in 2011. I play for the Kings, Phoenix Suns.

Then I get traded in 2015 to the Boston. When you got to the Celtics, it was a team that was kind of rebuilding. Yes. But you really set the tone. Yeah, I just tried to change the culture. They needed a player like me, and I needed an organization like them

to give me the opportunity to showcase my skills. And we turned that whole season around 2017. What happened to China? We're preparing to play the Chicago Bulls in the first round of the playoffs. A day before the playoff start, my little sister gets in a single car crash, fell asleep at the wheel, really late at night driving. I didn't know about it to the next morning. We just get at him or practice.

I'm going through my regular routine. And one of my close friends, Avery Bradley, on the Celtics, we're actually from the same neighborhood. And he knows China. He knows my family. He was like, IT, come here. I got something to tell you. It's important. And when we went back in the locker room, he was like,

bro, your sister passed away. I'm like, what are you talking about? So I go to my phone and I see calls from my dad, my mom, my wife. So I called my dad back and he just breaks it to me. And he couldn't really talk at the time either. I've only seen my dad cry like three or four times in my life, but I've never seen my dad be that emotional. So I didn't know what to do.

I couldn't go to him. He couldn't go to me. I couldn't go to anybody. It was unbelievable the news I heard. Like, I'm preparing to play the Chicago Bulls. We're the number one seed, the best year of my career and the worst year of my life,

like at the same time. Had you had any experience with loss? My auntie passed away, like older people in my family and my grandparents, great-grandparents, but not like my sister. and my youngest sister at that,

like, I would never think that would happen. She just was reaching out to me about coming out to the playoffs. She's like, you know, my birthday's coming up is my Jordan year because she would have been 23. So all of those things are like going through my head. I remember just leaving my stuff in the locker room

and getting in the car and just crying for like 30 minutes straight. My coach comes outside. Security comes outside. Then, you know, people just trying to help. But, like, there was nothing you. you can possibly do. It was like the most numb moments I've ever had. I wanted to go be with my family to try to help them out.

But I remember talking to my dad that night and he's like, you know what your sister would want you to do. She would want you to play. And you coming home isn't going to do anything right now. So many people were texting and reaching out to me. Kobe Bryant sent me a long text. Condolences. Sorry to hear the news.

But at the end of the text, he said, if you are going to play, there's no excuses and you're going to be who you always been. Kobe Bryant is my favorite player ever. So to see him reach out to me and say, if you are going to play, you go out there and be who you are because that's what your sister would want. There was no other way around it. That's what I was doing. So then the next day, I just showed up at the arena, like a normal day. Because anything I've ever been through in life, basketball has always been the space where it takes everything away. For two, three hours, I don't think about anything other than the game, and it puts me in a great space.

That's the only thing I knew. So I went to arena, prepared like I usually do. My body was there, my mind wasn't. And it was the hardest thing I ever had to do. Like, I remember being in warm-ups and just starting to cry, because it was like, it just didn't seem real. There's a video, Avery Bradley comes over and puts his arm around you because you're crying. It was just a beautiful moment.

It was just like such a human thing that he did. That was one of the moments where I just couldn't hold it in. I was just like, how did this happen? Just having someone there at that moment was like the smallest thing. And it was everything. He was the one. that told me the day before. And you know how hard that is?

His mom had passed away a year before that. So he knew? He knew. He knew exactly the emotions I was going through. It wasn't like he was trying to fix it or stop it. It was just... It was just there when everybody else was scared to, you know, be around me. And it wasn't even if their fault.

People don't know. You don't know what to say. You don't know anything for him to... really be there for me at that time. That was everything, so I, I'm super thankful for him. And all my teammates, so I played through that game. We ended up losing right when the game got over and I was leaving the arena.

It just hit me again. The real life just hit me. It doesn't go away. And it doesn't. Every time I would go to practice, every time I were playing a game, I would be okay. And then right when the game's over, I had no energy to speak to anybody.

It was like the opposite of who I was because I was the life of the locker room. I was the energy on the team. It was killing me seeing my teammates walk on eggshells because they didn't know how to react. So I had to fake it. Like I had to somehow put a smile on for my teammates because it was bigger than me at that point.

Like I was hurting my teammates. It was the hardest thing I ever had to navigate through while playing against the best players in the world than trying to win a championship. When you played, you wrote China's name on your shoe. You wrote RIP, Lil Sis, and the Data for Death. The only reason why I was playing was for her. Like the only reason, and it takes me back to just the YMCA,

being at the community center. Anytime I'm lacing my shoes up and she's right there. So that's the reason why I wrote those things on my shoes. She would always text me. She said, Showtime. Her and my dad would always text me that before a game. since I was in high school, and it was showtime. It was just a different time with her not being there.

You scored 33 points in 38 minutes in that game. You almost won. I mean, you brought the team back. Yeah, I played pretty well, but everybody was numb. The whole organization was going through what I was going through. A reporter asked you a question in the locker room. I just want to play what you said. I'm sure Celtic fans would like to know just how you're doing,

How are you doing? Man, I'm just taking it day by day. I'm not, some days are better than others, but I'm not here, man. It's never going to be the same. I'm not here. I so understand that. I've felt that a lot in my life. Like, I'm not even here.

Like, I'm half a person. When I heard that, I was like, I get that. I was just being completely hard. It was like, there's no way I'm here. Like, I'm not present. That's really how I feel. Do you feel like you're here now? Not here, here, but you, in general?

I feel like I'm getting better with things. But fast forward, my older sister, Laquisha passed away year and a half ago. Like, the same thing, like the same exact feeling. So, like, protect- It took you right back to that. It took me right back. It took me right back.

I got one more sister left. And I pray to God, nothing happens to hurt because I'm just not trying to do things on my home. And that's probably the hardest part. It's just being lonely. We'll be right back with more of my conversation with Isaiah Thomas. You went back to Seattle to speak at your sister's funeral, and then you flew back to Boston.

Four hours later, you're playing the second round of the playoffs. I get in at like eight. I go home, change, and go straight. to the arena. Game one, my tooth comes out. Like, at all times in my life, I've been hitting my mouth. I've been hitting my tooth.

I've been hit, and it's never came out. It was literally laying on the floor. You picked it up. I pick it up and I go take it to the trainer. We end up winning game one. I have a pretty good game. In between game one and two, I have 13 hours of dental surgery.

Game two is on my sister's birthday. May 2nd, every shot I made. Every shot was going in and the magnitude of the game It was a close game We went into overtime It was one shot where A guy fouled me

And I lost the ball And still threw it in And it went in and I'm like I look up like This is insane And I've had a 50 point game Before an NBA I've had games where it's like

Dang those shots are going in I've seen videos of it Like every like you're taking crazy shots It was just going in and I knew it Like I'm like that's her I felt her She was at that game. Me to score 53 points on her birthday

in a moment where the world was watching, I didn't hear my coach, I didn't hear my teammates. Because obviously the crowd is going crazy. It was silent. I didn't hear the fans, I didn't hear now. There was no emotion. I had no emotion in that game. I wasn't there.

I was in the gym by myself at the YMCA, community center growing up, and she's right there. That was all God and all my sister. That was for her. You were asked about it after the game. Where is this coming from, man? Where is this coming from? It's my sister.

It's her birthday today. Happy birthday. She would have been 23 today. So everything I do is for her. And she's watching over me. So that's all her. Do you remember that? Yeah.

I remember that. I remember every moment. Right? when I walk out the arena, it slaps you in the face. All that cool stuff, winning a playoff game, scoring a career high. That was one of the most amazing moments, but you don't understand what really matters into it,

really matters. That was one of the moments that basketball just didn't matter. Your dad talked about how he didn't know how you played those games. I just want to play what he said. Yeah. I don't know how he played, because I couldn't do anything. I watched some games, and then I couldn't watch no more.

It made it worse for me. Whatever basketball I had to do, we made it a family thing to go and watch him, but also make it fun for the family. And now China was missing. It's different. The only thing you think is where would she be? When you got kids, you just want your kids around. When you lose one, it feels like the world is upside down.

I wouldn't bill for that. Sometimes people think you're strong, and you become the weakest thing around. It just wasn't right. I never cried until like five years ago. I buried all that stuff. I just move forward, and all that stuff catches up with you. if you don't talk about it, if you don't express it, if you don't turn to it in some way.

And I understand that fully because when that happened, I didn't know what mental health was at that time. I didn't know what depression was. And where I'm from, like, especially males, don't really speak about those things. And that's what I've seen. So I thought that was normal. I was 100% depressed.

And I didn't even know it. And I just thought trying to figure it out on my own was going to help. but when I was able to really start to open up and speak to people about these things that everybody goes through, man, I started to see the light at the end of the tunnel in terms of just learning how to live with it. And I still have my days where I'm super emotional

like the other day. It was my mom's birthday, her 60th birthday, and she just wished my older sister was here. And that just hurts because I'm usually the guy they can help and I can't help. And she has her emotions. I have mine.

It just sucks, but knowing you can go through it with somebody else, whether as a stranger or family, it helps. Like you said, you were moving forward so much, just trying to move past it. And I felt like I was doing that too. And when life started to settle me down and I started to slow my mind,

down, able to, like, reach out to other people who've been through these things. Man, it helped in so many ways. Obviously, you didn't bring them back, but it's made things a little smoother when times are really tough. Being able to speak about it and trying to help my parents go to grief counseling.

Do they speak about it? My dad speaks to me about it, but he's not speaking to anybody else about it yet. My mom does go to grief counseling. It's something that helps her, and I think it can help everybody. I try to go at least, like, once a month. After, I just feel way better.

Like, it just, it helps to open up. I just always kept it in, because that's just what I always done. So I just tried something different. The first time you went to talk to somebody, was that hard? The hardest thing ever. Like, talk to somebody you don't trust or don't know,

but it just made me, every time after, it just made me smile. It just made me, It made me feel different. I started making the routine of trying to speak to somebody once a month, try to learn something off of the social media that others are going through. If you're not able to speak about it to others, you're not going to find ways to live through it.

Like not even get through it just to live through it. Does it get better? I think you learn to navigate through it. It doesn't get bad. I want to talk to my sister every day. I want to argue with my older sister. Like, I want to, like, I want to have a back and forth with her. I want to tell my younger sister to slow down.

I want to be able to laugh with them. I always say to my mom, I wish you can get one-fold call a year and just hear my sister's voice. Just to just ask them, is everything good? If they can tell me that, that would make things so much easier. My younger sister didn't even get to meet my daughter. And my daughter is my younger sister. Really?

Everything about her. Wow. You see her. My daughter, Jordan, everything. Everything. My dad says it all the time. Really? That's China.

Because it really is. Every way she acts, it's like identical. It's cool because I could see her in my daughter. That's something God did to keep her close to me. It's incredible to see I have two little boys, four and six, and I see my dad in their eyes, and all the stuff that happened to you as a little kid that you bury, it's an opportunity to kind of figure that out

and be better for them. My little one has the shape of my mom's face, and it's crazy. Like, I see it. It's so... That connection is insane, but it's real, and it helps me. Like, even just looking at my daughter's eyes, I was just like, I know that smirk.

I know that look. I know what you're getting into because I've seen it. I seen it in my little sister. So like with my older sister, when it's a nice day, I feel like that's her. When I see a yellow butterfly, that's my younger sister because when she passed for like four straight months, every day I would see a yellow butterfly.

And I just felt like that was her. So those are like little signs I feel like. but I haven't hit the stage yet where I feel like I'm speaking to somebody. I haven't had that connection yet, but I believe that will happen. I have a lot of faith in that. My mom had one, like a sign where she said, she felt like my older sister, Quisher, said she's okay. And, like, I could see my mom smiling more and, like, wanting to go out and do things more.

And I want that for my dad. I want that for myself. I don't feel like I get signs from. for my dad, but I remember what it was like to be the little boy that I was, like laying on his stomach watching TV. Like, I remember that feeling, and I remember the love I had for my dad, and I feel that again.

Yeah, and I go back at times too with my sisters, just all the moments we share. Like, there'd be certain songs that come on the radio. It was like, like, that's something me and my little sister would dance to or figure something out. Is there a song in particular? Is there a gospel song? song by Donnie McClurkin called We Fall Down.

And it's a song that on Sunday mornings, we would just have like a whole church concert in the living room, which is me and her. And she would be the singer, I'll be in the background. So like, anytime gospel music comes up, I think of her. And then when my older sister, it's like she was my protector. So anytime I'm getting to something, no matter if I'm right or wrong, she was She's riding. She's riding for me.

I could be so wrong. She would make it seem like I was right. And that's what I missed the most about those little things about them. I really thought I would have my sisters forever. And that's where it hurts the most. Your dad says you just got to go forward, not move on, but go forward. I think it's a really smart way of saying it. It's not moving on.

It's not forgetting, but it's putting one step in front of the other. even if it's a tiny little step. Yeah. I didn't really understand how big that line was because that's exactly what grief is. It's finding ways to go forward without moving on. Yeah, it's like not moving on. It's like carrying with or walking with.

Yes. Any door you go in, anything that you do, they're right there with you. I used to think strength was going forward and moving on, but that's not strength. No. That's running from. And that's what I felt like I've done for a lot.

You know, join the club. Yeah, and like you said that earlier too. And that's what grief is about is like not forgetting, not moving on, but really figuring out how to go forward. What do you say to your kids about your grief? When my older sister died a year and a half ago, that's when I was able to like sit down and speak to them. Like, especially my older boys, they're 15 and 14 now. But just speaking to them my emotions. So when I'm on the couch crying, they're not just like, oh, let's get away from daddy,

give them a space, and now I come over here. I understand why I'm crying. I miss my sisters, and it's okay to cry. Never seeing my dad cry when I was a kid, I just thought you shouldn't cry. I try to explain to my kids, like, you can be emotional. Adult men cry, that's strength. It's not soft crying. In life, you care that much, you're going to cry,

and you're going to be emotional. So not to hide those emotions at some point in their life when they hit some adversity or some type of grief, the last thing they're going to do is holding in because that's the worst thing to do. My six-year-old, like, when I try to talk about emotions with him, like he just will try to change the subject. I was the same way as a kid, and I really don't want that for him.

And then my daughter's seven, she would start crying with me. Is that right? Yeah. It's like the boys, they're out of age now, I can really explain to them. Yeah, you think your dad's all super tough in things, but, like, it's also tough to cry, too. I guess you can do that, and you can explain and speak about your emotions. In this family, you can. And I want them to know that when I go to my sister's funeral home and talk to her, both of them.

It makes me feel that much more closer to them. I don't know. Grief sucks, but there's ways around it that can have. help you. And I really believe that. And as I start to meet more people that's open about talking about their story, it just, man, it helps. Like, in life, you just need others. You need others to accomplish things, to get through things, to not move on, but to go forward. Like, you need others. And coming on things like this is like, I can't wait to see the feedback. Just to read comments are to hear what others are going through

because everybody has that in common. And so many people come from the environment I come from, from the inner city that have nobody to talk to and going through so much death, adversity, school, and have nobody to speak to. Very close friend of mine who was incarcerated

for 29 years. We talk about this all the time that prisons are full of grieving people. I got a friend of service. For a crime, I know he didn't do, but I speak to him, every day just to let him cry out and speak about things he's not speaking about in there. So I understand that.

And that's helped me in ways that he doesn't even know, just being able to speak about things to people and just somebody here without having an answer and without having a comeback for what I'm saying. It's like that's huge in everybody's life and everybody doesn't have those things. Is there something you've learned about grief that would be helpful? helpful for others. The biggest thing is leaning on others. I get so many messages on social media.

Like, man, you inspired me. Like that moment when your sister, when you went through that, I was going through this and just watching you on TV got me through. I didn't understand the impact or the inspiration I had on people into after. No matter how amazing your life or how bad your life is, that's one thing we have in common.

is losing someone. Everybody loses someone, everybody goes through adversity. And there is people who want to speak about these things. And anytime I'm able to speak about my sister, it makes me feel so much better. It like helps. Just because I happen to be on TV or play the game at the highest level, it still hurts.

And I still need people and I still need others to be able to get me through. Because like growing up, you always feel like you can do things on your home. But as I've gotten older, especially dealing with these situations, like, man, you need people. You need whether you can listen to somebody's story, whether you can have somebody listen to yours, is needed. In my life, I've never leaned on nobody other than my parents.

But the ability to lean on others and finding the right people to be able to lean on has helped me in ways that I can't even explain. And they could be a stranger or somebody you've had a 30-year friendship with. that stranger can possibly help you out more than that person you've known. Don't shy away from that if that opportunity ever presents it. It'd be okay if we played the song that you...

Yeah, yeah. The China song? For sure. It was called We Fall Down. We grew up in church, too, so she's doing it. And I'm in the background. I'm like this. We...

Ah, I miss her. That's crazy. We fall down, but we couldn't stay. I'd be like the choir in the background. It's lovely. It's great. That's her. And it's the same thing your dad said.

I mean, go forward and not move on. We fall down, we get up. We get back up again. Now we're getting back out with others. That's the plan. To keep moving. keep going forward with others. That's the only way.

Isaiah, thank you so much. It's been really lovely to talk to you. Thank you. This has helped. And thank you for telling us about your family and your sisters. I appreciate you. If you have some thoughts about this conversation with Isaiah Thomas, we'd love to hear from you. You can leave a comment at c9.com slash all there is.

There's a short film about Isaiah Thomas and his family's experience with loss called Go Forward. It's part of a larger documentary that's currently in the first. works about his life and basketball career. Thursday, May 21st, we won't have a new episode of our streaming show while there is live. Instead, we'll be bringing you another new episode of this podcast. It's a conversation I had with today's show co-host Chanel Jones. Her husband, Uche, died last May from glioblastoma. I talked with her about her grief and also the recent loss of her grandmother, Josephine,

who died on New Year's Eve at the age of 96. What I also realized is I grieved. Uche for so long. And I'm sure somebody will know if this is a term, I don't know, but like, I pre-grieved, too. So because you know it's coming, even though I was in denial. And then I grieved Uche, and so I've been grieving for so long that I will acknowledge. I don't think I have truly grieved her because then it's too much. Like, you know, everybody's like, oh, you're so strong and you're there for your kids.

and, you know, all of the things. And grieving him has been so much. And so with her, I've had to, like, tuck it just a little bit. Like, I can feel it. But, like, if I allow myself to truly explore, you know, what she means to me, I might have to take a personal day tomorrow. That's coming up and all there is. If there's something you've learned in your grief that you think would be helpful for others,

leave us a voicemail at 404-827-1805. Thanks for listening. Do you ever find yourself lying in bed with your thoughts racing and your brain just won't turn off? That's the kind of thing that Catherine Nicolay helps with on her podcast, nothing much happens. Each episode is a cozy, calming bedtime story with nothing stressful, nothing dramatic, and nothing you need to keep track of. It's just soft narration, gentle repetition, and soothing sensory details specifically designed to help you, drift off. People around the world use nothing much happens to quiet their minds, rest their nervous systems, and finally get the sleep that they need. You can listen to Nothing Much Happens wherever you get your podcasts. Episodes every Monday and Thursday.