All There Is with Anderson Cooper - Kenny Chesney

Episode Date: November 12, 2025

Country superstar Kenny Chesney reflects on the loss of friends and a beloved dog. He and Anderson also share their connection to a family who experienced a profound loss. Plus, Anderson talks about the death of David Gergen and speaks to a podcast listener facing a life-threatening illness. Join the community to share your story and watch Anderson's weekly streaming show All There Is Live at cnn.com/allthereis. Host: Anderson Cooper Showrunner: Haley Thomas Producers: Chuck Hadad, Grace Walker, Emily Williams Video Editor: Eric Zembrzuski Technical Director: Dan Dzula Booker: Kerry Rubin Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

I went to a memorial service the other day for David Gurgan. David was a lovely human being. He was decent, kind, a gentleman on camera, and off. He wasn't one of those people you see on cable news yelling, saying things they may not even believe. He was thoughtful. He'd served as an advisor to four presidents, Republicans and Democrats. And even though he had a lifetime of real experience,

he listened to other people and always engage with them respectfully. David died in July after a struggle with Louis body dementia. I miss him. His wife, Anne, flanked by their children, Catherine and Christopher, read a poem she also had read at David's burial. It's called Immertality by Claire Harner. Do not stand at my grave and weep. I am not there.

I do not sleep. I am a thousand winds that blow. I am the dust. diamond glints on snow. I am the sunlight on ripened grain. I am the gentle autumn rain. When you awaken in the morning's hush, I am the swift up-flinging of quiet birds

in circling flight. I am the soft star that shine at night. Do not stand at my grave and cry. I am not there. I did not die. I like that idea, that our loved ones are not gone, that they are in all these things, that they're alive all around us. I certainly hope that's true.

You may know that I've started a live stream show, which is a companion to this podcast called All There Is Live. My guest on the latest episode is Marika Omera, who sent me this voicemail back in 2024. My name is Marika. I was diagnosed with metastatic breast cancer about children. years ago. I lost my mom. I was 25, and she also died from metastatic breast cancer. When my mom was on hospice care at the end, she had a grief counselor, and she said one thing that has always stuck with me. We are grieving for the one person, and it can be a terrible grief. But the dying person, knowing that she's going to die, knows that she's going to lose

everybody in her life that she's ever loved. And I understand even more now, as I'm facing the same thing. I know I won't get to see my granddaughter get married. My two grandsons, the littlest one is three. I know I won't be able to see him graduate high school. My husband, who I would lucky enough to find just seven years ago. It's devastating, losing and knowing in advance about it. And that's all there is for me. In the meantime, I'm going to do my very best to love them all as hard as I can. That is all we can do, isn't it? Love those around us as hard as we can. When Marika join me on All There is Live, I was stunned to learn that her husband died unexpectedly in July. So Marika is grieving him and facing the uncertainty about her own future.

This is part of the conversation I had with her. Are you scared? No, I don't think that's the right word. Maybe anticipating pain makes me a little scared. But I don't think I'm scared of dying. I believe that there's something more for us. I believe that I'll see Brian again and my mom and my dad and, you know, all those. I think maybe we believe that so we aren't scared, but I'm going to believe it.

Yeah, me too. Are you scared? Of dying? Yeah. I wasn't scared, sorry. I wasn't scared before I had children. I, in fact, I exposed myself to a lot of danger over the last, I don't know, since I was 23 going to wars and stuff. I tried to get as close as possible to that line because I wanted to witness it and understand it

and bear witness to the suffering of others. But now that I have little kids, I'm very scared about not being there for them. We like to think we're in control of our lives that we'll have the time to do all the things that we delay doing, but there are no such guarantees, are there? I'm grateful for Marika for her honesty and her willingness to help all of us with her wisdom and her love. This is all there is. We'll be right back with Kenny Chesney. When they get in here, it goes from here to here.

Welcome back. I first met Kenny Chesney nearly 20 years ago when I did a profile of him for CBS's 60 Minutes. Our paths have crossed a number of times since then. Kenny's written a memoir called Heart Life Music about his incredible journey in country music. I started our conversation showing him part of an interview I did in 2012 with Lynn and Chris McDonald, just three days after their seven-year-old daughter, Grace, was murdered at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown, Connecticut, along with 19 other children and six staff members. I'm a huge fan of yours, and it goes well beyond the music.

There is something that you did, which I don't think you've ever talked about, I've never talked about when Sandy Hook happened, I interviewed the mother of Grace McDonald, who was a little girl killed at Sandy Hook, and her name was Lynn. This is just part of the interview that I'd done with Lynn. The first time we had been able to be with her was last night. And when we walked in the room and we saw that white casket, it just, you felt like the floor was falling out beneath you and your breath was taken away. But earlier in the morning, I decided, because Grace loved art so much, We were packing Sharpies in our pockets. And when we got in, after we did our big family hug with Grace,

we sat down and we busted out the Sharpies and we decided that we were, at first I had visioned maybe a little heart, but by the time we were done, there wasn't an inch of white. It was so covered with all the things that she loved. When we left the room, it was certainly so hard to leave her because that would be the last time that we would be able to be with her. we had to take great joy in knowing that when we walked in there it was so white and our breath was taken away but when we walked out of there it was like we had joy again it had so much color and it was grace

it was so grace you were able to give her things as well yes we brought her her favorite paca book and we had seashells and flip-flops and sunglasses and she loved to cook we had a frying pan and she loved music. She has Taylor Swift Christmas song in there. She has our New York Yankee hat. She has her dad's New York Yankee hat. Kenny Chesney, you said. She has a little Kenny Chaston in there. Notes from her friends. Notes from her friends, pictures of her family. So she had all the things that she loved with her. So we took, we took, we had peace when we left last night. Wow.

Before that interview, I was in their kitchen, I was talking to them. And this was just days after their daughter was killed. And there was a photo of you on the refrigerator. And I said to Lynn, oh, do you like Kenny Chesney? And her eyes lit up. And she was like, oh, you know, Grace loved Kenny Chesney. And in fact, the morning she was killed, we were standing at the school. Excuse me.

No, it's okay. We were standing at the school bus waiting for the bus. and we were singing Kenny Chesney's song. And I texted you that night because I had your number from doing the 60 Minutes piece. And I wasn't suggesting you do anything. I just text you to say,

hey, I just want you to know you really touched this family's life. And I'm sure you get that a lot because you touch a lot of people's lives, but this family really loved you and this little girl who died really loved you. You texted me right back and you said you wanted to reach out to Lynn.

And I got in touch with a little bit. Lynn made sure it was okay. You call, Lynn, and you spoke for a long time. Yeah, and we have since then become really good friends. I can't tell you how many shows her and Chris have come to over the years. And they actually brought me a piece of art that Grace painted. Yeah, she loved painting. And gave it to me, and I had it framed it.

It was in my bus for years. You know what's crazy? Because I believe in, I'm a very spiritual person, And I believe in people pushing people together. Do you know today, as we are setting here talking, and I'm not sure when this is running, but as I'm sitting here talking, today's November the 4th, the day my book comes out. And I was going back and forth with Lynn on email just a couple weeks ago. And she goes, I'm really excited to see that your book's out, that it's coming out.

And I said, well, thank you. She goes, I think you need to know November 4th is Grace's birthday. She would have been 20 years old today. Oh, my God. And here we are talking. You're the one that connected me with that family. Yeah, I know. I get chills thinking about it.

I know. Today's her birthday. She would have been 20 today. Wow. And I don't know. I just texted her son Jack just to check up on him, see how he's doing. It says, I mean, listen, I meet a lot of well-known people. There's not a lot of people who would not only have reached out to her in the worst moment of her life.

for a conversation that would be nothing but difficult and keep in touch with her. I mean, she's told me that she's gone to some of your concerts. No, she's gone to numerous shows. And every time they go to Hawaii, she brings me back a book. Like this book on just every, all things, Aloha. And I have that in my house still today.

And it's, it's been a real good friendship. You, I mean, when you step into somebody's grief like that, what do you say? You just try to be there for them. I mean, there's not a lot to say. I can't imagine being a parent. that happening. She told me all these things about Grace that made me feel just incredible. I mean, how much she loved the music and how much their family, you know, went to the beach and listened to

it and how much I was a part of their household. And when Grace passed, you know, they had, I think her mother told me they had no shoes, no shirt, no problems written on the casket. I just think it's unbelievable that we're having this conversation on what would have been her 20th. That's incredible. That it worked, the timing of it all. end of that horrible week, you actually came on CNN and you sang Amazing Grace. lost but now I'm found was blind but now I see which was grace that taught my heart to fear and grace might feel relieved.

How precious did that grace appear appear, the hour I first believed. an amazing grace, how sweet the sound that saved a wretch a wretch like me. I once was lost lost but now I'm found was blind but now I see I was blood but now I see. Wow. That's beautiful. I love that song. Well, me too. You know, watching that, it's been how many years now? And the fact that we have this in our country, I know this is probably a whole other interview, but watching that, it's stunning that we still have to deal with it. And that we still, I mean, I'm so sick of watching sporting events and having moments of silence. And it seems like there's been a lot. So, I don't know.

And to know that Grace would have been 20 years. old today. It's just a life cut short, but I do feel a connection with her and that family. I really do. And thanks to you. You've sung about grief. You've sung about loss a couple times. I think that the more you live, the more you experience loss. And I have, over the last several years, I have lost friends that I've written songs with, that I've collaborated with. I've I've lost heroes. I've lost island friends. And I don't think they're gone. They're here. They're here. You feel that. I feel energetically, I feel them. And it's interesting because I never used to. I would hear people talk about that. And it's only in the last couple of years that I actually feel the people again. And I don't think, I don't know that it's something that we ever get over. Yeah, I don't think there's getting over. I think there's kind of.

turning toward living with. Yeah. And I think, especially if you lose someone, if they're young, God lost a friend of mine on the islands. I mean, she was in her 30s. And when she passed, it was like we were all frozen in that moment forever and at that age. There's another song you have Who You'd Be Today, which sort of speaks to that. I want to play a little bit of who you'd be today.

Okay. God knows how I miss you. All the hell that I've been through. just knowing no one can take your place but sometimes I wonder who you'd be today

today today today Today, today Today Sunday Sunny day sunny day

The only thing that gives me hope is I know I'll see you again someday. I didn't write that song, but when I heard it, I specifically thought about there was a couple of guys that lived across the street for me as a child. And we didn't have anything.

We didn't have devices. We didn't have the internet. We didn't have cable, nothing. So all we did was play. sports out in the backyard. And his name was Lance Wilson, and he got killed in a car wreck at 17 in Jacksonville, Florida after they had moved away. That was the first time I really experienced real loss. And I heard this song. I went, wow, that's exactly how I wonder about Lance, what he would have been like. Would he have had a family? Would he have, what he would

have done with his life? More of my conversation with Kenny Chesney in a moment. But first, if you want to listen or watch past episodes of the podcast. You can do that wherever you get your podcasts or on our grief community page at cnan.com forward slash all there is. That's where you can also watch our new weekly companion show All There is Live Thursday nights at 9.15 p.m. and catch past episodes of it as well. CNN.com forward slash all there is. I'll see you there. We'll be right back with more from Kenny Chesney. You had two bull of dogs who died. And we call them DePonch and a Rubai Girl. And there's a song to Ruba Girl.

Yes, I wrote a song called A Rubai Girl. And I was one of those guys that really didn't have dogs in their life, right? And I didn't even think about it. But my therapist, like two days before Christmas, came to me. And she knocked on the door. And I opened the door, and it's her. And she has poncho. And she goes, Kenny, you have to learn to attack.

to something. That was like, next thing you know, Anderson, I'm in an anxiety pit at PetSmart, not knowing what to get. So I just got like two of everything. And then when Mary and I got together, she had a pit bull rescue. And so Ruby and Poncho never spent a day apart ever.

So when Ruby passed, she was a little older than Pancho, it was really difficult, you know, because we were family. Also, it's a loss that, and we've done, we have had people on the podcast, about pet loss because a lot of people don't view it the same way as, you know, it's a connection as strong as any other for many people. Anderson, I love animals and I, when Ruby passed, it was really, really difficult. It was as, it was as terrible as any friend I've ever had that has passed. I just want to play a little of Der Rubik. Okay.

I didn't see this comment. I love it. You see this one of going to get me. You needed her, she needed you. To help to help fill a space. Last La La Cage at the rescue Was a love that no one could replace That's great

I've never heard it Lying there like a lost string of pearls Was Darubai I did a video on and everything. Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's just me. Her best friend's name is Puncho and she loves him. Oh my gosh, like frosty pose. She hates the mores and the marrow.

Lashie hates to get a wash. Her hair doesn't grow and it doesn't curve. She's Daroo. I love it. Yeah, so you never know what's going to inspire you. I love that. You know, but I love animals and I love pit bulls. Ruby taught me a-

Pit bulls get a bad rap. Well, Ruby taught me a really good lesson. She was a rescuing. Yeah. But I grew up in an environment where we were taught that pit bulls were dangerous and that pit bulls were mean. And Ruby taught me a lesson. Like, if you mistreat an animal enough, any breed.

will be that way. And, yeah, they get a really bad rap. I mean, she was very loyal. She was very strong. And she got to sleep into bed a lot because I let my dog sleep into bed and miss that dog. I heard you say that when you found out

she had cancer, that rather than grieving while she was still alive, you wanted to fill her time with love. Mary and I took her everywhere. She went to Florida. She went to Malibu. She went to the Virgin Islands. We didn't want to sit in the house and just watch her deteriorate because she was going to anyway.

There was no stopping it. So we just filled her, me and Mary and Poncho, we went everywhere, and she loved to lay in the sun. She loved to listen to the waves crash. And that's something that we had in common, you know. And so it was hard. I mean, like losing an animal, like for a lot of years, we were a unit, all of us. Of course. And so that was as difficult of a death and grieving that I've ever experienced, honestly.

Was there a time where you felt, okay, I'm ready to bring another four-legged creature into my life? Not yet, because Mary is still grieving it. I mean, she's just not ready. It's been, well, it'll be four years. next month. So she's not ready. And it really crushed her. I was one of those guys that didn't really have animals in my life until Pancho and Ruby, but I spent so much time with them. Now, you know how you can go in a car and you can stop at a red light and there'll be a dog setting, you know, with his head out the window? Like now I can, I feel like anyway, that I can

look at that dog and dissect its personality. You know, not that I'm a dog whisper or anything, But that's how much in tune I am now compared to before, Pancho and Ruby. Just listening to that song, it reminds me it something you said about songwriting and you write it about it in the book. You said, the job is to take a slice of life, write all about it, slice it down to what matters, then cut that feeling wide open. Yeah. I love that.

Yeah, thank you. I mean, but it's difficult. I mean, finding commonality with people through songs and in a short period of time is I have to scratch and claw for everything I get as a creative person. Yeah, but it's the part of my life that I truly love the most. And being creative and having that gift is one of the most unbelievable gifts that you could have. I've lost someone recently, you know, someone that I created with for a very long time. My friend Brett James, who was killed in a plane crash a couple months ago.

And it's been hard because we were brothers and we were songwriting partners and we came from different places. but I mean, he wrote so many of my songs and those that he didn't write with me, I wrote with him. His creative energy and his creative soul changed my life. There's a huge part of my show that is, that's our creative energy.

And then all of a sudden, that stops. Do you feel him when you sing songs that you guys wrote together or worked on together? I had to go, so the first time I sang one of his songs after he passed was at Farm Aid with Willie Nelson in Minneapolis. And all of a sudden it hit me, I was going to do a song called When the Sun Goes Down, which he wrote by himself. And it was the first time, it was really, the wound was really open.

It was really fresh, his passing. And I had to go up there and sing that song. And I haven't had to sing it since. But I'm going to, because I'm not going to let that stop me. It's almost like in a celebratory way now. And I can't even believe that it's so fresh and new, the grief and everything in his passing, that I can't believe I'm talking about it in those terms. In the past tense.

Yeah, and like all of it, I create everything in the past tense because I, Brett was just one of those guys that, I mean, I thought was always going to be around. And it's been really, really difficult. And it was a moment that really hit the whole town of Nashville really hard because he just didn't create for me. I mean, he was a creative machine and a soul and a great, you know, and a great guy and a dear friend. and we went on a lot of riding trips together, and we, I mean, we had a ton of authentic life fun. I mean, a lot. In the islands, and you've seen a lot of those places on the road,

and he would share the stage with me, and I don't know, he was just a brother, and it would just, he had a bad day in a plane, you know, and it sucks. Is there something you've learned in your grief, or in the losses you've experienced, that would be helpful for others who are going through it right now.

Oh, wow. Everyone is different. Time does heal some. It won't erase. It changes. It changes. Yeah, your grief will change over time. Kenny Chesney, thank you so much.

Thank you, my brother. Next week on all there is, comedian and cancer survivor, TIG Natara. It's a funny and moving conversation about loss. TIG's close friend, poet Andrea Gibson, recently died, and TIG was at Andrea's bedside. I have to say it's really the first time I've experienced a death in the way that I have where I really feel Andrea, and I don't know what that is.

But the grief leading up and the grief I feel, you know how tricky it is. You go about your day and you're doing all right, and then all of a sudden a truck parks itself on your chest and you can't do anything because it's like, it's so confusing that Andrea's gone. Join me on Thursdays at 9.15 p.m. for my new weekly companion show called All There Is Live. It'll be live streamed on our grief community page at CNAD.com forward slash all there is every Thursday night at 915 p.m. We can come together there, talk grief, and not be alone. You can also follow us on our new Instagram account, All There Is. is and send us video messages there. Just make sure that you either record them on your phone and upload them directly to our

Instagram message board, or if you record them directly in Instagram, make sure you click the Allow Replay prompt so that it reads keep in chat, and that'll allow us to save your messages and possibly use them on the podcast. You can also leave us messages at our new voicemail box 404, 827, 1805. Wherever you are in your grief, I'm glad we're together.