American Alchemy with Jesse Michels - Air Force Veterans Abducted By Aliens Reunite After 50 Years [EMOTIONAL]

Starting point is 00:00:00 Great news. The federal EV rebate is back. Eligible customers get up to $5,000 with the federal EVAP rebate on select 2027 Volt and 2026 Equinox EV models. Visit your local Chevrolet dealer today for more details. Do you remember me? We were on November 5, November the 18th, 1977. Do you remember what we encountered at 1 o'clock in the morning in November 5? Imagine you're a nuclear years old,

Starting point is 00:00:37 tasked with guarding a nuclear missile site in the heart of the Cold War. It's midnight. And while on duty, you and your partner witness a giant glowing sphere hovering over a live thermonuclear weapon. Four strange-looking beings glide towards the window of your truck. Do not fear. Michael, Michael!

Starting point is 00:01:02 You're taken aboard a craft, examined with sharp instruments while receiving telepathic messages. And all the while you hear the shouts of your partner somewhere close by. When you finally come to, five hours have passed. Your partner is frozen to the steering wheel, completely unresponsive. And you're parked beside a reservoir dam more than eight miles away from the missile site. Bewildered, you're taken back to the base and separately interrogated. Then the Air Force transfers your partner, and you don't see him again for 50 years. Now you can stop imagining, because this is the true story of Air Force security policeman

Starting point is 00:01:52 Mario Woods. My name is Mario Woods. I served in the Air Force from 1975 to 1983. Mario has told this story countless times. Mario's been on the history. channel, Discovery Plus, News Nation, this show, over 40 appearances, and each time he asked the audience to find one person, Michael Johnson. Michael Johnson.

Starting point is 00:02:15 Michael Johnson. Michael Johnson. Money has been spent trying to locate Michael Johnson. We've looked in hospitals. We've looked in... Can't find him anywhere. No, sir. The one person who could validate his experience and corroborate his story.

Starting point is 00:02:29 Gone, seemingly forever. Here's the thing about hunting for a man named Michael Johnson. It's one of the most common names in America. Good luck finding Michael Johnson in a sea of Michael Johnson's. Many start to wonder whether this long-lost partner of Mario's was a figment of his imagination. Mario hired private investigators. He consulted the FBI. Online amateur sleuthers went nuts.

Starting point is 00:02:57 He says Arrow, the Pentagon's official UFO office, has promised to him that they would look, but they all came up dry. If anything, my guess is that a lot of these people and organizations probably saw Mario as a liability, and Mario and Michael as people to keep compartmentalized, someone to corroborate a story they'd rather remain stigmatized, kept in limbo. Because all it took for our fledgling operation at American Alchemy to beat a multi-agency manhunt with some online searching and basic outreach. That's right.

Starting point is 00:03:31 A fan of the show, shout out Jason Miller, hit us up with a Facebook page, a page just sitting there, and lo and behold, it was for a 70-something-year-old Michael Johnson living in South Carolina, fitting Mario's description perfectly. Michael had even posted these words, My Boys in South Dakota on Ellsworth, 75 to 77. So he tasked a very talented recruiter to find him, and he did. in about a week. I couldn't even sleep, man. I've only stopped maybe an hour.

Starting point is 00:04:09 You are about to witness history. 50 years of these two Air Force veterans being apart, and now they get to relive one of the most extraordinary nights of their lives. You know, you're bringing two pieces of a story that have never met for 49 years, and now they're, like, getting to share notes. And we're not just going to interview Michael Johnson. He courageously agreed to go through a full hypnotic, regression on camera.

Starting point is 00:04:35 This is a very safe time to remember. Without further ado, maybe the most inspirational episode to date with two of the best men I know. This week's courageous American alchemists, Mario Woods and Michael Johnson. Hey, is this Michael? June 26th, 2026. 626, 26. I call a man I've never met at his job, in the middle of his workday,

Starting point is 00:05:43 and I explain only part of my motivation for reaching out. Nothing about November 5, nothing about a UFO. Michael doesn't even know my name, let alone the fact that I have a podcast covering any of this stuff. You're talking to Jesse. My friend was stationed with you at Ellsworth in 75. and he really wanted to reconnect. And so I wanted to know if I might be able to patch him in. I think you'll be excited to hear from him.

Starting point is 00:06:12 What's his name? His name's Mario. He was texting the Elsoord with me? Yeah, I think he was like, I think he worked with you there. Yeah, yeah. That name's how for me. You know, that's kind of strange because I've been trying to get a hold of some of the guys back there at my time. Mario, Mario.

Starting point is 00:06:38 That's his first name? Yeah, Mario's his first name His name's Mario Woods Woods, Woods Woods, Woods Would you be down for me to patch him in? I think he'd be so excited to speak to you Hey, Michael, Mario, you both there?

Starting point is 00:06:58 Yeah, yeah, yeah I'm trying to... Man? You remember me, you remember me. You remember me. What, when we in state squadron? I said, Missal fight, when we did in the States squadron?

Starting point is 00:07:13 What, man? I'm like, that name keeps, it keeps in the back of my hand. We were on November 5, November the 18th, 1977. Uh-huh. You were working vacation relief. You did not know anything about the 68th area. I think you were in the 60-60-67 area. Uh-huh.

Starting point is 00:07:36 Were you? Is that where you were? That was me. That was me. It was me. That was me. Do you remember what we encountered at 1 o'clock in the morning on November 5? On November 5, was that UFO? Was that UFO?

Starting point is 00:07:59 Do you remember? Yeah, I remember that. Do you remember how large it was? It was big, though. I remember we saw it. It was blank. Do you remember what happened? What did you have to do you?

Starting point is 00:08:11 I just look standing like I'm crazy and shit, like I'm sitting there something that was. Damn, that was long time ago, man. Yeah, 48 to half years, we've been looking for you, man. I want to make sure you've got my phone number. Okay, okay. I have put your name out all over the world. Damn. Michael, you're famous.

Starting point is 00:08:36 Yeah, you are. You're served for by the damn FBI, by private investigators, by Arrow from the Pentagon, and I've got chills standing here with tears in my damn eyes. who's been to your voice right now? Michael, do you remember having seen the UFO? Like, like, when you talk to friends and family, do you say, oh, yeah, that time?

Starting point is 00:08:59 Yeah. Yeah. I try to chop keep it if they don't believe it. They don't believe it. Yeah. How far over the top of the blast door was it, Michael? I'm the 50 feet. I'm 50 feet.

Starting point is 00:09:13 Maybe a little higher than that. It was a little higher than that. It was close as hell. I remember that. It was close because it was bright. Michael, would you be open to reconnecting with Mario? We could fly you guys both out to Austin so you could meet in person and hang out and maybe we could film kind of their reunion.

Starting point is 00:09:34 Well, yeah, that's possible. That's very possible, you know. I just want to make sure I know my brain was scrabble, so I'm just trying to make sure, you know, that I'm the Michael Johnson. I mean, he said he's seen my picture. Facebook because I'm on Facebook, you know, I'm black now. I know. I didn't haunt Miss Black Michael Johnson for all my life.

Starting point is 00:10:01 It seemed like 49 years, but I'm at home for you. I'm serious. I'm just about $10,000 spent trying to look at you. Yeah, well, that would be interesting. It sounds like you saw me, too, you know, because I have a lot of issues up there in South Dakota. I had a lot of issues up there, too. I was just done there in 21.

Starting point is 00:10:24 I went through all the old areas. I went through everything. It changed so much. It changed. I was up there. I was up there by selling a district. I was driving trucks. I was driving trucks and stuff.

Starting point is 00:10:37 And I purpose back in the city. And I can find nothing to say. I'm pretty much to put that up, man. Because my mind would scramble, man, for a while. Because I just, damn, I just let it go. I said, nobody's believe me anyway. No. I think it was intentional.

Starting point is 00:10:51 When I picked my wife to see a close-encounter of the third guy, when they did that scene that mailboxing Yeah I just fucking washed my I just had to get out of that theater Nobody

Starting point is 00:11:05 believe this man Nobody Yeah You survived You survived at all Yeah I've been I think

Starting point is 00:11:15 I mean It's so long dude Oh man I didn't know That I didn't know that So Everywhere I'm gone

Starting point is 00:11:23 I've always Every down But I got a computer, you're the first person I'm trying to search for. I mean, because you're a high home boy. Damn, man. Damn. Mario. How are you, man?

Starting point is 00:11:51 Oh, goodness of you. You run me through hell. You can do that, you know? What's that, bro? How are you doing? How are you feeling about seeing Michael Johnson? What's going through your body right now? Man, I couldn't even sleep, man.

Starting point is 00:12:07 I've only slept maybe an hour. Wow. I had a Restless Lake syndrome. I couldn't have to walk around that damn plane. And just thinking about it, man, just seeing him again, you know? He was saying, like, they scrambled my brain. What do you think he meant by that? I don't think he's got, I think he's pushed so much back himself.

Starting point is 00:12:28 Instead of allowing it to come forward and feeling it and then living with it. Because that's what it comes down to. You can push shit back in your brain forever and put something will trigger it. Sooner or later, something's going to trigger whatever that memory is about a person, a woman, an incident, or anything like that. Michael, what's happening, man? How you doing? What's going on? How you doing? Good, how you doing? You're great now, man.

Starting point is 00:13:03 Man, you're in crazy shape. Both you and Mario. You're about to see Mario, who you've been separated from, perfect. 50 years. What are you feeling right now? Well, he never, he never turned his back on me. He never left me. That's one thing I could say about the brother. He's he's he's an honor man. He's he he never forgotten me. Uh, give you a hug. It's been a while. I know, dude. Are you excited to meet Michael? Oh my god. Michael Johnson man, the guy that was just like he was like there for everything but we never like, he, he, he,

Starting point is 00:13:47 He was this mythical creature. And in Mario's last interview, which you just probably recorded like a month or two ago, he's still like, I could feel how much he wants to see this man before he dies. And Jesse just calls me, what, three, four days ago and goes, we found Michael. Get to Austin. And it's so wild, too, how there's like truth and fiction. If you watch Disclosure Day, it's like you have two people, Daniel and Margaret. and they're like two like walking hard drives with like latent information that needs to be reactivated

Starting point is 00:14:22 and they're brought together and then like you have the whole puzzle. The two puzzle pieces are like brought together. And that's kind of what's happening now. Yeah. It's so wild. It's finally happening, man. Like the amount of podcasts where you talk about Michael Jackson and wanting to connect him and wanting to find him, it's unbelievable. So you were thinking about going back to South Dakota.

Starting point is 00:14:49 Going back to South Dakota. Yeah, we taxis. That we time. And then we got in touch with you. Yeah. Coincidentally. Just like that. That's crazy.

Starting point is 00:14:57 I'm gonna get your door. Hold on. Okay. This is nice, man. How are you feeling? You know, I'm, I want not lie to you. This is too much. It feels good.

Starting point is 00:15:08 It feels good. It feels like. I had had one of those in a long time. Oh, let's go. Yeah. Go see Maria. Oh, right. Look at my man, my from the man.

Starting point is 00:15:40 My man, you never forgot me, you never forgotten me. You never forgot me. You never forgot me. You never forgot me. Don't know that shit. Don't have it been, man. Let me see you. Oh, wonderful.

Starting point is 00:16:10 You all you went up there and believed, you know, and I got my back up here. Oh, man. Oh, thank you. Oh, thank you. Oh, man. You spent it too. It's the same. Say, smile, stay, pitiful, hair, everything, mocked you, man.

Starting point is 00:16:28 Oh, Jesus. Oh, man. This guy, this guy was real cool with me. He was real cool. We didn't hang out too tight all the time because our jobs is everything. is everything. But he always speaks to me. He will always speak to me all the time. What's up? You know, everything. I was seeing me in my 64, 68 cutler, Supreme, you know, going up and down, you know, elsewhere. In my TRC? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Everything, man. I heard you been looking for me, man.

Starting point is 00:17:03 Looking for you. Yeah. Man, I've had the FBI searching for your happy ass, all of them, every one of them. You know there's so many Michael Johnson's out there. Yeah, and I didn't know your mental initial either. Yeah, the C in there. Describe how you guys are feeling right now. I want to cry. I mean, I could get emotional, you know what I'm saying, and everything. See my brother here, my home boy, you know, here, and he never forgotten me.

Starting point is 00:17:39 It's the best thing, you know, he kept looking and looking. You know, he didn't give up on me. He felt I was still alive, you know. I'm saying. Okay. So when I found out and you talked to me about it, you know, everything, and remember I said, you sure you got the right Michael Johnson? I'm black.

Starting point is 00:17:58 You sure? You know what I'm saying? You know, you know when I knew that he did find the right Michael Johnson is when he said, do you remember what happened to us? 1997 at November 5 and then you said, oh, the UFO. He said 1977 Ellsworth Air Force Base, November 5, and he said, oh, that UFO. Yeah. And he hadn't said anything else, no other details.

Starting point is 00:18:24 And you immediately said the UFO. Yeah. That gave me the chills. Yeah, yeah. Michael, what do you remember from this, you know, fateful night that Mario's obviously been describing this for years now on end in podcasts? And so for him, in some ways, it's easier to remember because he's keeping the memory alive by retelling it constantly.

Starting point is 00:18:46 For you, it's just this thing that happened to you 50 years ago, and it's probably a thing due to the way you were treated by the Air Force, that in some ways you've tried to kind of put behind you and forget. So what details do you remember? I do remember the simple fact that there's a big bright light in front of us. I do remember that. It comes close, they go back out and everything, all right? I do remember that because I was frozen on the steering.

Starting point is 00:19:13 wheel, frozen on the steering wheel and everything. And believe it or not, I heard him talking, but I couldn't say nothing. I can say, it was like, don't say nothing, you know. It was like I was just in a trance right there and everything. He was going off. He was, you know, he was upset and everything. He said, did you see that, Michael? Michael, look, you know, everything, but I couldn't do it.

Starting point is 00:19:36 And so next day I know was my eyes were burning. It was like I was staring. straight ahead, but I couldn't blink. Couldn't blink of nothing. So I just kind of like, I fade out. I did. I passed out on the steering wheel, I assume. Just passed out. And I couldn't think of anything else to do after that at that point right there. I was looking around. When I did come to, I looked around, seeing Blair's going around, around the truck, you know, around a truck and everything. And I just kind of just dizzy that fizzled out again.

Starting point is 00:20:16 I couldn't do much, but I do know he was there. He got out of the truck and everything. Describe the kind of object moving around the car very quickly. Do you remember anything about it? It was like in a human form. Human form? Like in a human form.

Starting point is 00:20:33 Pointing head, like point of d'axa type, you know? Interesting. And do you remember anything else? Any other details? Don't fear. Don't fear. Don't worry. You know, something to that part. Don't worry.

Starting point is 00:20:48 Don't worry. Everything. But I couldn't concentrate because of glaring around me. Going around me and everything. Mario Woods, you've been telling the story of what happened to you in November of 1977 at Ellsworth Air Force Base since 1996. That's correct. And you have one of the most detailed accounts I've ever heard. the only hole missing in it is your partner who is now sitting alongside you. So for the first time,

Starting point is 00:21:22 we'd love to hear your story of what happened to you with Michael Johnson sitting next to you. That's awesome. I'll be happy to tell it. But let's just go back to the day. Our day started going to the SATF building, which is a security police main office facility, which is a reconditioned hangar. You know, all the shifts are there together. We line up in position, you know, we're, we get our briefing what's going on in the field. We had American Indian movement at the time. They were doing some stuff. So they were real crazy.

Starting point is 00:21:54 They kept us abreast of all that, you know. There were threats on Mount Rushmore and they wanted detonate a side or they wanted to do something. But we met that day at Garmount because my team member, Steve Welchell, that's his name, young guy. He went home in North Carolina to get married. So when we went back to the field, he would, he would. He was on vacation, and they sent Michael to work his days off on our shift, his commander option day. We got to meet, shake hands, talk a little bit. I didn't know him prior to that time.

Starting point is 00:22:24 I'd seen him around because he was a car enthusiast. He saw my TR6 convertible. He liked that. We talked about it. Yeah. Yeah. So we were good to go. And we came out to the site, and we talked.

Starting point is 00:22:37 I stayed up. I can't remember if you went to lay down for a while. We worked at 6 p.m. to 6 a.m. I was looking at TV. Yeah. I was looking at Barnaby Jones or the Rockford Files or something. Yeah. Man, you got to see this.

Starting point is 00:23:14 I didn't want to be out there. Mario, he was this gunhole, man. Right, right, look at this, look this. Yeah, man, yeah, you know what I'm saying? Because out there's nothing out there but Perry dogs, Routherstnake. Yeah. I don't want to see all that. Unre-rearited van, you do unsubedekaw, 30 is mine.

Starting point is 00:23:37 The dead. In there from Kels. Everything was going really normal. nothing out of hand, nothing strange. At about 9.15, I just took a notion to go outside and smoke a cigarette. And I'm just looking around. It's a super clear night, super cold,

Starting point is 00:23:55 and nothing was out of place, and I just happened to look to the east, really directly east, and I see this big old light in the sky, different color, a different gradient of a light. Do you mind if I flip my lights at this thing? And no successive form or no phonetic alphabet or anything, I just flipped the thing off and on, off and on, off and on three times.

Starting point is 00:24:22 And I just walked outside kind of quick, not even knowing if I'd get a response or I didn't expect one. About 30 seconds passed and all of a sudden it went off, came on. Went off? Came on. Thinking he just shared a friendly, unconventional exchange, he goes back to his business. That is, until just after, midnight.

Starting point is 00:24:45 All of a sudden I hear the alert phone in the flight security controller's office go off. Yes, sir. I hear sit four November 5. An inner and outer zone alarm all at once, above ground and below ground. Something is directly in the vicinity of the most destructive weapon on the planet. We go to the end of the road, which is a dirt or clay road. No other traffic, just us. We're the only thing out there.

Starting point is 00:25:27 I just happened to look over about the 4 o'clock position. In the far distance, in the direction of November 5, I see this glow coming up off the ground, just pulsating. And he goes. What did you say? Whatever, man. That's exactly what he said. As we dropped off onto the dirt road and just barely started to crank left, there sat this object. And I said, look at that.

Starting point is 00:26:13 I don't even know what Michael said at that point. I said, look at that. What are we supposed to do with that? I said, I ain't going to tell you what I said. What did you say, Michael? I said, I ain't going to tell what I said. I don't think I can say it. You can swear.

Starting point is 00:26:29 Fuck of shit, what is that? That's what I said. That's exactly what I said. What, fuck, what is the shit? What is that? Just like that. That's the natural reaction? It honestly was.

Starting point is 00:26:43 We pull up at a 45 degree angle. I did turn to 45. With a great question in both of our minds, and as soon as we stop the vehicle and just tried to take in the magnitude of what was above us, this damn thing, man, this light just went, or the glow or whatever it was, just... Sunshine bright green.

Starting point is 00:27:10 It didn't... It moved down on us like... It came down like that. It was just like a shield of light, just encompassed everything and everything about us. It lit up stuff that has probably never had light on it, I don't think. That's just how permeating it is. I felt as if, you know, there was light shining through parts of my body or something. You took up the whole missile site, man.

Starting point is 00:27:36 Took up the whole everything. The diameter of that thing was so big that it actually exceeded the perimeters. Yeah. The fence line. I mean, he was blowing my mind, too. I was still conscious. And he was on the steering wheel just like that. You were grabbing on that steering wheel.

Starting point is 00:27:50 I want to take that 45 angle and go elsewhere. You know, I want to take off. You know what I'm saying? I want to take off, you know, rusty wall is tight. Turned that being going to go. I couldn't do it. As soon as that light hit us, it was as there was a pressure placed upon us right on your front of your body, like pressure, like something pushing on my chest.

Starting point is 00:28:13 and I was having trouble breathing, and I never had any issues whatsoever. And him, too, we couldn't breathe. As if the air was being sucked away from us. Yeah, so kind of. Vacuumed out. But yet there was a pressure exerting some kind of energy or force. And I felt like I was, even with a parker and flight pants and bunny boots and everything we had on,

Starting point is 00:28:35 I still felt as if I was being lifted up toward end of the back window. I felt like everything was rising. and this light is so permeating that in that seated position, I looked and I looked right down the center vent of that dashboard. Remember those two vents, and there's one on this side, one on that side, and you've got the heater vents on the floor, black rubber mats. And I looked at that vent just for a flash, and I could see way down in there,

Starting point is 00:29:03 and then I'd pick up these particles that I thought was glitter, which didn't make any sense at all with what's going on, I mean. And I just watched them just, just moved by. So I just looked at them. I just looked, I don't even know if I said anything at that time, but I know we couldn't breathe,

Starting point is 00:29:19 and I knew I had to do something. So without saying a word, I said, hold on a second. I just rolled the window down. I took my glove off of this hand. My trigger guard was open on my weapon so I could use it with my left hand and my forefinger. That's what they were designed to do.

Starting point is 00:29:38 And I got my black three cell, three D-cell flashlight as I pull myself up on that window and I reached out my left hand in front of me like this and I put it up and grabbed the light bar, the bubble above me and held on to that and I took my flashlight and I just flashed my flashlight at it three, four times like that, just like I did it to the side. I couldn't even see if it was working. I just kept flashing my light at it. I was just asking for relief. Okay, it's awesome. I'm just, I'm just, asking for relief. And when I did that and I felt as if I succeeded, I just slid back down in the seat

Starting point is 00:30:19 and I rolled that window up, not knowing anything else. I don't know where my flashlight went, but I grabbed my weapon and I put it between me and I said, Michael, I leaned over and I said, we can breathe now. It's going to be okay. Yeah. He's just like this. I'm on the stool. He's just like that on that's two on it.

Starting point is 00:30:38 I don't know if he's looking up or down or anything. And in the flashed it for a second, no sooner than I said. that, this black ball just comes out of nowhere. And honestly, it was between four and six feet in diameter, like a big beach ball with vents on it and of a black color that I, not like these microphone booms, but a different black than anything, any color or any blackness you've ever seen. It was scary black. It was just so dark, but damn, it was just, it could, you I can see myself in it. You don't have words for it.

Starting point is 00:31:15 You don't have, you can't explain it. You normally look at it and think, what, how is that? How is that? How can it be that color? Maybe like, almost like a tear in the fabric of reality itself. Possibly. Or, yeah, a whole opening up in that blackness or something. I don't know, I don't know, but I know it was a ball.

Starting point is 00:31:34 Four to six feet diameter with his strange lines on it like vents. And it just sat down from that hood about that high. above that dark blue hood on that forward. It sat there for about three seconds and then it just went right over here beside me. Over there beside him in the back,

Starting point is 00:31:54 back to this side in front of him again. Back to this side in front of him again. Sat right there and he just went and it was gone. I didn't even know that it left. It just left my visual radius at that time. And I just went, what the hell was that?

Starting point is 00:32:15 He's not saying anything. I'm not saying the obscure shitless. And then this smell just with the windows up, this smell just gets inside that vehicle. And I went, what is that? And I didn't have, I don't know it's like sulfur and ammonia, like bad shrimp in a cooler. And I've smelled that before.

Starting point is 00:32:35 And so it just threw my mind right into that time frame. I'm trying to say something to him. but he's not hearing me. Or I'm talking, just talking out loud, I guess. I was just trying to make some sense of everything. I was out. I mean, I couldn't do nothing at that time. I couldn't do nothing.

Starting point is 00:32:56 My eyes were hurting, my head. But I heard you talking. But I couldn't respond. I was stuck. And I got a really strange feeling on the right side of the vehicle. and I thought that was the safe place. You know, the craft is here. Whatever it is, it's to the left.

Starting point is 00:33:22 It's closer to him than it is me. But I got a feeling on this side of me. And without looking first, the first thing I hear is from low to hide, do not fear. Do not fear. At that particular moment in time, I just turn to my right like this,

Starting point is 00:33:43 just looking and I just see these shadows from about 20 feet away. And I'm trying to focus on what I'm looking at. And as they approached me, there was three small ones and one tall one in the back. And he was about a foot and a half behind the three in the front. And the small one on the right, he had, they had, they were in uniforms. And they had on his little waistband or a little waist, some kind of thing in his waist. And there was a little rod about that long, eight, ten, ten. 10 inches long. It reminded me of one of those 5-cent pencil erasers we used to get in elementary

Starting point is 00:34:23 school. It cost us 5-cent. Had a big eraser on one end of it, a yellow pencil. His face or his head was shaped differently than the three in the front. And I felt fear when I saw that one. I didn't feel fear with the smaller ones, but I did with him. And it was at that moment in my In my time, in my head, it wasn't what I was seeing that did what it did to me. It was the nanosecond of time it took for me to register what I'm seeing. What was the head shaped like on the big one? A more pronounced jaw, a smaller lip line, eyes at a little different angle. and they all had large black almond-shaped eyes.

Starting point is 00:35:21 The small ones did too. They just weren't as large as the taller one behind them. But his facial construction was different than the three small ones in front of him. And as I said, they weren't walking. They were sliding in some way. And they weren't fast. They weren't slow. They were just moving steadily.

Starting point is 00:35:41 And of course, that fear just built up in me because I knew they were coming. And there wasn't anything that I could do, nor would I do. I couldn't shoot them. I wouldn't shoot them. And the last thing that I remember was just my vision, just getting smaller and smaller and smaller, and then it just went black. When Mario comes to, the missile site is gone.

Starting point is 00:36:13 The truck is parked behind the wall of a reservoir dam near a town called Newell, more than eight miles from their post. His boots sink into mud in a field that should be frozen solid. Something very hot had clearly just been on the ground next to the truck. His watch says it's around 6 a.m. At least five hours of their lives, gone, never to be recovered. And still in the driver's seat is Michael, breathing heavy, eyes open,

Starting point is 00:36:49 hands gripping the wheel tightly, but totally unresponsive, as if he's catatonic. Where's November 5? As I'm contemplating what I just stepped. and all of a sudden that radio, that motor roller radio, with that little microphone hanging on a dash, pop the life, and said, wind security control to November 1, November 1, what's your location? And he said, November 1, do you need medical help?

Starting point is 00:37:11 And I said, I don't, but I'm not certain if my partner needs it or not. And the whole radio network just went silent for a minute. Because all these other sites, and Wing Security Control and all these other flight security controllers, all these other security policemen are here and everything that we're talking about. Everybody.

Starting point is 00:37:30 So I was instructed to do one-minute security checks as they were gonna triangulate our position. Yes, sir. The rescue team comes to their location, sheriff's deputies out of a local town called Sturgis. A state trooper comes as well. I didn't know this until 2021, was that two deputy sheriffs had been dispatched

Starting point is 00:38:01 from Sturgis, South Dakota, by request of the Wing's. of winged security control on base, 55 miles away, compared to where Sturgis is. Sturgis is 29 miles south of Newell. And a state trooper who, that was his area, and he heard his father say, not knowing anything about anything, well, why do you want me to go look for them? They're better equipped than I am for something like that, whatever that was. Why do civilian deputies matter?

Starting point is 00:38:31 because the Air Force controls Air Force paper. It does not control the Meade County Sheriff's Dispatch Log. If those records survive, this story has a document with a date on it. When Sergeant Garza pulled up, said, what's going on? He said, Mario, I can't talk to you about this. He said, I'm just here to escort you back to November control. Followed them back to the launch control facility. I pulled in right in front of the flight security controller's office,

Starting point is 00:38:58 and they just descended upon the vehicle. I don't know what's wrong with Michael. I said, I don't know what's wrong with Michael. I said, I can't get it in to speak. They took me into the day room. They started banging me with questions. Everything was just at one time coming from every space in my mind. And I just went and sat on the toilet.

Starting point is 00:39:20 All of a sudden, I get this ringing in my ears. When it happened, everything turned like lime green to me. I closed my eyes, and when I did, I had this feeling I was leaving my body. And when I opened my eyes that last time, I saw four fuzzy feet walking by, pause walking by the bottom of that door. That was a dog handler and his drug dog. I'll be out in just a minute. Yeah, no worries, man.

Starting point is 00:39:46 You're all good. Just came in to check on you. I opened up the stall door, and I just went to the sink, and I just turned that faucet on. It's ice cold water, and I'd just drowning myself in water. I was just soaking wet. What'd you do, take a bath? And off we went to Ellsworth. Michael and Mario are taken separately back to the base and interrogated apart.

Starting point is 00:40:10 Sounds as if you've had an interesting evening. Michael goes to medical first. Michael, when was the first moment, if you recall, where you were kind of yourself again, where you had come to, after you were in this sort of kind of catatonic state, you were kind of stuck to the steering wheel. At what point are you like, you know, shake it off? I'm back to my normal self. And then at that moment, what do you think just happened to you?

Starting point is 00:40:40 Are you thinking about, like, you know, do you have theories as to what happened to you? Well, after they took me out of the truck and everything and everything, and I remember the LT on one side. And I forgot who's on the other side. Is it facility manager tech or a master sergeant? They were driving me back to the base. I wonder, did they take you to Colonel Spraker's office, or did they take you to medical? No, first I went to medical. Okay.

Starting point is 00:41:10 Because that means you were there before I was there. Well, I was being interviewed because I left just a few minutes before you did. Yeah. That's why I was coming together, getting myself together then, you know, after that right there. But I was still out of it, but, you know, I was able to get around, move around and everything and be puzzled. What the hell, man? You know what I'm saying? What the hell?

Starting point is 00:41:30 I assume also you're probably. probably upon preliminary assessment, you probably needed the medical attention sooner because you were in proper shock. So it makes sense that you would be taken. Do you remember what the medical procedure was like? I just remember. I just remember they shot some in me, some in my vein and stuff, like a little small physical, like they'll give me a physical, you know, everything. I remember that very well because it hurt me and sting me, you know. Oh, you know, like that.

Starting point is 00:42:00 I do know that for a fact. I do know that track my eyes out because my eyes were, they said, You know, can you see? Are you, I having, yeah, I said, maybe I did have some part of my eyes because my eyes were hurting me bad. They didn't give me anything from my head. My head was burning. Like my brain inside, it was hot, you know.

Starting point is 00:42:17 I was like I had the migraine or something. Did they ever say anything about sodium pentothal? Yeah. They did. They did. They mentioned that, yeah. Because sodium pentothal is truth serum. One of the main reasons I'm able to go multiple hours on these podcasts,

Starting point is 00:42:33 while staying mentally sharp is because of this little drink. It's a product I started using years ago, and it's called Ketone IQ. I know the founders Jeff and Michael personally, and I was thrilled when they agreed to sponsor the show, because it's one of the few products I trust to give me clean, sustainable energy. I've been taking a little shot of this thing during every long recording, and it lights my brain on fire. Here's the science behind why it actually works. When you're running on glucose or sugar, as your brain is most of the time, it's essentially burning dirty fuel.

Starting point is 00:43:09 Your brain could be like a Ferrari, but you're feeding it 87 octane fuel all the time. Ketones are what your brain actually prefers when it's operating at its best. Normally, you'd have to fast for days in order for your body to switch from glucose to ketones. This little shot of ketone IQ gives you the ketones directly, so your brain runs the way it's supposed to without any spikes or crashes. So visit ketone.com slash alchemy for 30% off your subscription order, plus receive a free gift with your second shipment. That's ketone.com slash alchemy for a whole 30% off. Or find ketone IQ at Target stores nationwide and get your first shot free. Did they ever say anything about sodium pentothal? Yeah. They did. They mentioned that. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:43:59 Cosodium Pentothal is Truth Serum, and there's another famous case at Royal Air Force Bentwaters, and this is called the Rendlesham Forest case. And the three U.S. Air Force officers who were involved in this case all went back and they were given truth serum to see if they could sort of, you know, retell everything that they, you know, experience. Right. You said something really interesting to me on the phone, and I think Mario was there too. You said, they scrambled my brain. I'm glad you fuck that up, man, because my mind was scrambled. I know my brain was scramble. Damn, my brain was scrambled. Yeah. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:44:36 Do you remember anything like that? That's how it felt. Okay. That's how it felt. It really felt like that. Like, when they did, when that was happening to me, I didn't know who I was. I didn't know where I'd been. I didn't know my family.

Starting point is 00:44:54 It was like they tried to erase your identity or something a little bit. everything, you know, the people I knew on post, you know what I'm saying? The other context of sodium pentothal in which it's used was like CIA mind control experiments. And so I wonder if they were trying to get you to forget the experience. I was still puzzled why that lady stuck me with that needle and everything we talked about and everything. And it felt funny. It was burning in my arm and everything. But I was worried about that for a long time. You know, was it something to LSD or something, you know,

Starting point is 00:45:28 Whatever. What did you feel that doing to you physiologically or mentally? Like, what did you feel the liquid? High. Really? Mm-hmm. High. And you remember them talking about sodium pentothos.

Starting point is 00:45:41 That is wild. I mean, that's definitely a truth serum, and they used that in other contexts when it came to, you know, nuclear UFO cases. Yeah. Mm-hmm. I remember that. Wild. Just after his abduction, Michael noticed that his right arm, was sore. In fact, it was really weak and he could barely use it. Nothing torn or broken.

Starting point is 00:46:07 Since then, and despite being right-handed, his right arm works less well than his left. It's literally weaker despite being the dominant hand. This is the kind of minute detail that nobody would ever bother to invent, especially somebody that we had to seek out. Were they all flight surgeons, Or were there anybody in, like, more interesting official suits or tweed suits or uniforms? I think it was an OSI in there, too. Okay. Office of Special Investigation. Yeah, Office of Special.

Starting point is 00:46:44 I think it was just one in there, too. Do you remember a tall man in a tweed suit? Yeah. You do? Mm-hmm. Do you remember anything about him? No, I thought he reminded me of my base commander. My squadroner commander, Colonel, I can't remember his last name.

Starting point is 00:46:59 Which base? No. At Elvore? Was the man in the Tweed Soup fat or skinny? Skinny. He was a light bird. He was a light bird. He was a light bird.

Starting point is 00:47:11 He's kind of like a peacock, you know. Kind of like a peacock. He goes very skinny though. That's what I'm saying. Peacock, you know, they like that, you know. Knitleong and everything, you know, Her grace on top and everything. And you felt like the intention that you felt in the room,

Starting point is 00:47:26 you were like, you felt like they were trying to figure out what happened or kind of mess with you in a way where it was like, we don't want Michael to recall this. I think a little both. A little bit of both. A little bit of both. You have time feed me everything. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:47:41 Every time feed me info and then try to take it away from me. Do you remember the info they were trying to feed you? I didn't see nothing. Hmm. Was you drinking? Yeah, I got asked that. So we were just gaslighting you. Well, they had a drug dog on the site before we even got back.

Starting point is 00:47:56 So that had already been initiated. And that had to come 55 miles away from the base in Maine's 4. Basically, those were to go to November 1. You remember the drug doll that brought it to the site? That was a drug doll. Yeah, I remember that. That's a special phone call. That just didn't happen.

Starting point is 00:48:13 Yeah. And so after, so you experienced this with these, you know, flight surgeons and with Air Force Office of Special Investigations, and the whole time are you trying to remember yourself or analyze what had happened to you, or are you confused, or what are you feeling when that's happening? I feel lost. I'd be honest with you. I was feeling lost.

Starting point is 00:48:34 I feel lost, scared, everything. And like, you know, what are you going to do with me? What are you going to do with me? I see what I've seen. I know what I saw. You know what I'm saying? I know what I saw, you know, and everything. And I didn't want to say any more than I have to say

Starting point is 00:48:51 because they were kind of drilling me. They were drilling me. You know, how do you feel now? Questions like that, you know what I'm saying? Yeah. How do you feel right now? You know, I think they're, asked me one time, do I get along with my mother?

Starting point is 00:49:03 Yeah. Staying home. Okay? Do you get along with your mother? You know, like that. In the robe, in the right robe, you know, and everything like that. And I'm just like in a nurse over there, just sitting down, you know, just sitting there and everything. I said, you know, what's this guy doing? What's going on? Sounds like they were looking for holes or leverage or some sort of diagnosis that they could point to to explain away the experience you had just had. At that time, it makes sense not what you're saying, but at that time I didn't think like that, though.

Starting point is 00:49:34 I just think like, don't tell me what I didn't see. Don't tell me what I don't know. What I've seen what I don't know. I remember saying, where's my partner at? Me too. Don't worry about him. He's okay. I said, where's my partner?

Starting point is 00:49:47 I say, pardon, you know, where he's at? Don't worry about him. Don't worry about him. I said, okay, woods. My partner, Woods. I still say don't work. You know, and that pissed me off right there. That pissed me off.

Starting point is 00:50:03 Me too. It got me into almost a combat mood and everything. Yeah. You know, like that. Because I know, it was half of him and me, okay, and everything. I didn't see him. He was the main one that was holding me back, you know. But for my, you know, being there for my back.

Starting point is 00:50:20 He had my back. State your name. I'm Michael, Michael Johnson. That's right. And nothing happened last night. Did it? Nothing happened. You're going to be okay, Airman.

Starting point is 00:50:32 Nothing happened. Nothing happened. Where's my partner? Where's Woods? Don't worry about him. Give him the sodium pentothal. And easy, nice, and easy young man. I do remember I got into this machine.

Starting point is 00:50:54 It's like a shower stall. Okay. Like a shower stall and everything. They got in there. And they closed it up. It was dark inside. I heard how many sounds going while I was in there. I remember that. I remember that because this ain't a shot. What I'm doing in here?

Starting point is 00:51:10 You know, my boxer shorts, you know? Yeah. Had you ever seen that before? No, I never seen that kind of instrument. Never seen it. Never seen it. Never seen it. Hmm, okay. Mario's exam is equally strange. A flight surgeon spends long minutes on his gums, his teeth, the floor of his jaw. Something wrong with my teeth, doc? All the while, Air Force Office of Special Investigations agents are, are leaving.

Starting point is 00:51:35 listening from behind a partition. And then the doctor tells Mario something that he doesn't know yet. He has burns, seemingly radioactive burns, straight out of close encounters of the third kind. He went up here and he just clipped a piece of skin off there and he took the whole tool and he stuck it right down in here and put a cork on it, laid it on that tray. That tissue entered the United States government's possession in November of 1977, and then it was probably classified. So the U.S. government has literally confiscated and classified a piece of Mario.

Starting point is 00:52:09 This piece of skin has never been accounted for since. So for all of you government transparency hounds and Freedom of Information Act experts out there, this might be one of the cleanest records to target in the entire story. At ease. Now the debrief room. Because what the Air Force did next tells you a whole lot about how they treated UFO incidents on the inside back then. Five men in the room.

Starting point is 00:52:37 The wing commander, the deputy base commander, agents of the Air Force Office of Special Investigations, and a civilian in a gray tweed suit nobody ever names. He answers their questions candidly, but he plays it smart when it comes to what he saw. Had I said that I saw these beings, they would have immediately removed me from the PRP personal reliability program.

Starting point is 00:53:05 I'd have lost my clearance. I'd have lost my job. I'd have never been on the missile field again. And I was a newlywed at the time, and I needed a job. Two men, the same experience. Mario's career survives. Michael's doesn't. I just got to the point that I was drinking for a while, you know what I'm saying, everything.

Starting point is 00:53:27 And I fought depression, you know, all that kind of things going on in my life. You know what I'm saying? I had a whole hard life. And so where I left after my article, but honorable discharge. Honorable discharge. They say, we'll give the honorable discharge.

Starting point is 00:53:42 Okay, well, you know. But I never really got the field of it and everything. And the thing by it, though, I was trying to go into Marines after that. I was trying to go to Marines. I said, I'm going to go to the Marines and stuff, or the Navy.

Starting point is 00:53:54 I'm still good, though. But they coded it. Yeah. It has some kind of code on it. Like a 1A or something. Yeah, I know what you mean. And God told me he's to take an act of Congress to get it off.

Starting point is 00:54:04 And I just said, man, I could be a Boy Scout then for that matter, you know. I mean, I wanted to, you know, get back here. I'm young. I'm ready to show, support, everything. So it didn't work out. So I stayed up there doing medial jobs for a while before I left. Medial jobs.

Starting point is 00:54:21 They put you on like general duties or something like that, right? Yeah. Picking, picking trash, putting in the bag and stuff. Unbelievable. I'll do some paint. Paint the building inside of the building and everything like that. Boar in the grass and everything. You know what I'm saying?

Starting point is 00:54:35 I mean, it was degraded. That's a highly trained tactical individual from the Security Police Academy, Lackland Air Force Base. And Combat Training School, just Camp Bullis is a prisoner of war training camp. Six weeks. Yeah, man, we were working with the Rangers, man. Special forces. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:55:00 I loved it. Yeah. I mean, you know. I killed a couple of snakes, big to go. Man, I got ripped by a scorpion. Yeah, I stump one. I blew my hand up. Can I do some?

Starting point is 00:55:13 Go ahead, Johnny, go here. That's why I never said what was out the side of that window, what I saw when I saw those beings. I never would say that. I said everything else, but I wouldn't say that because I'd have been cleaning up those barracks grounds too. And you know it. Now you might be wondering about the total blackout period. The period between Michael and Mario seeing a massive glowing.

Starting point is 00:55:39 red orb over November 5 at midnight with beings hovering towards their pickup truck and waking up eight miles away next to a dam. Let's find out exactly what happened during those five and a half or so missing hours. Pay attention to your dreams. Pay attention to flashbacks. That's how the subconscious brings up more memory. Recalling events from a traumatic, let alone supernatural experience is inherent problematic, especially when it involves missing time. The mind files what it can't process in rooms it doesn't hand you the keys to, and often that's adaptive for you to move on and go about your day-to-day life. It's common for experiencers to undergo hypnotic regression to unearth those shards of

Starting point is 00:56:32 memory. Mario had his years ago, the session recorded. Mario couldn't play it back. The recording sat on his shelf for a year before he could bring himself to press play. The regression itself, which caused Mario to relive the experience, was so traumatic for him that it caused his heart to go into atrial fibrillation. But to get the full story of what happened to Michael and Mario that night, we needed Michael Johnson, a man who has never been hypnotized in his life, and has been repressing

Starting point is 00:57:04 this memory for 50 years. We needed him to give hypnotic regression a try too and see what we could unearth. So we flew out legendary hypnotherapist Yvonne Smith. Yvonne has probably done more hypnotic regressions of experiencers than anyone on the planet today. And she's the author of this amazing book that you should all buy called Chosen from the Alien Hybrid Program to the fate of the planet, quite the title. I want to give a trigger warning here what you're about to see is very intense and somewhat disturbing. And we should all commend Michael not only for undergoing this, but for sure.

Starting point is 00:57:41 sharing it and letting this air. Mike, do you got this? You think so? Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah. You're way stronger than you think you are. You're going to be great. I hope so, man.

Starting point is 00:57:54 I hope this, get this over with, man. I just feel so drained. I feel so drained. Yeah. The Michael, I want you at this time, to visualize, imagine, or picture yourself at the top of a beautiful, unique staircase

Starting point is 00:58:20 with two very sturdy handrails in each side. So as you're standing there, you feel very safe and very secure. Knowing now that this is the right time to remember and a very safe time to remember. And you start down and five, four, three, two, one. Because you allow yourself to gently drift down

Starting point is 00:59:04 into a deep, deep sleep. And allow yourself now to gently drift back in time back to the winter of 1977. Describe where you are on the base. I was with my partner, my sat partner. Okay. A strange object, real bright. Came out of the sky.

Starting point is 00:59:56 After we approached the site, it came out of the sky. I couldn't believe it. I could take a good look at that object and just try to just try to. describe what it looks like. A warehouse building like. Now are you able to look ahead of you out of the windshield?

Starting point is 01:00:27 Just try to look out of the windshield and describe everything they're seeing or sensing or feeling. I saw spinning objects. I saw spinning objects around me. Okay. I saw spinning objects around me. Spinning around the truck, the whole truck. I saw three individuals, three objects, whatever it was in front of the truck. Try to describe what you're seeing what's in front of the truck. Three creatures.

Starting point is 01:01:02 Okay. Three creatures. I've never seen how this whole world was in front of me. Try to describe what they look like. Yeah, you had a big-ass eyes. Okay. I had big. Okay.

Starting point is 01:01:18 He, before he was sticking out. Okay. Skinny. What was made of a man, they were made of something, they were just putting, like putty. They were standing in front of me. Mm-hmm.

Starting point is 01:01:36 I just looked at them, and mummaling. You hear the mummaling, back in bo-b-b-b-b-b-b-pommering and everything. No fear, no fear. No fear. Seeing no fear? No fear.

Starting point is 01:01:50 Okay. And you're seeing him through the windshield? Yeah. Okay. I didn't know if I turned my head. I knew I just kind of like looked in the side of my vision. And I see these four shapes. They're not walking. They're just gliding. Okay. Three small ones and one tall one. I remember calling Michael's name, but he didn't say anything to me. At that point, at that point, seeing them scared the shit out of me.

Starting point is 01:02:25 Yeah. It scared me so bad. Yeah. I couldn't do nothing, Mario. Mario was, I heard him. I couldn't do nothing. I couldn't say nothing to him. Okay.

Starting point is 01:02:35 But I heard him. What is Mario saying? Michael, Michael, Michael, Michael. You all right, you're all right. Did you see that? I don't know what happened to me. You're still sitting in the truck? I'm in the truck.

Starting point is 01:02:47 I'm in the truck. I'm in the truck. I'm in the truck. And he's grabbing me, trying to pull me. And I'm trying to fight myself to wake up. Because I know it's conscious. I was just trying to fight my way to speak, to be back in my body. And they wanted me to get out the truck.

Starting point is 01:03:09 Okay. I couldn't get out of the truck. They had to pull me out of the truck. I heard things going around me, you know. Like I was like something, it was like something, water moving. You know, like somebody turned a fire hydrant on something, you know? Do you see any water as you look around? I tried to look around.

Starting point is 01:03:28 I did try to look around. Mm-hmm. I looked to my right, looked to my left. Okay. Looked. I saw space out there, empty space. I didn't see no ground or nothing. Okay.

Starting point is 01:03:40 Okay. I had a headache. I felt like a headache. Real serious headache, you know. All of a sudden I got a headache. My eyes, so I don't know what to do. I didn't know what to do. I didn't know what to do.

Starting point is 01:03:50 I did hear you. I was conscious, I heard Mario. Mm-hmm. I heard him. Now, getting in touch with your head, as your head is hurting, do you sense or feel anything touching your head causing the pain? Squeezing it. Somebody's not to touch it.

Starting point is 01:04:09 I was squeezing my head. Okay. Squeezing it in which way, from ear to ear? On top. Oh, my top. on top and on the side. Okay. Squeezing it.

Starting point is 01:04:25 Okay. Without feeling the pain, continue describing what does it feel like? Needles. Okay. Where do you sense or feel the needles? You're doing just fine. Just describe everything without feeling the pain. Allow the information to come forward.

Starting point is 01:04:54 It just hurt so bad. Where do you feel the needles? My ear, my head. I felt the needles in my head. I felt my head been squeezed. Now where do you feel the needles? What part of your head? By my ear.

Starting point is 01:05:10 Okay. By your ear? By my ears. On each side. Both sides. Both sides. Okay. They take me somewhere.

Starting point is 01:05:19 In what position is your body in? I'm laying, I'm flat on my back. Okay. And I can't, I can't believe that these three guys or whatever they are carrying me. And I think whatever I'm breathing helps to relax me and I'm not sure what it is. There's something that's placed on me from behind. And it's on my left, it's behind my left ear on my neck and upper ear area. I remember saying something that feels like a crab. And then I hear Michael. And it's, and it's, and it's, and it's, and it's, and

Starting point is 01:06:09 his voice, he's upset. He's very, he's really upset. And he goes, oh man, he goes, why am I here? And the little one, the small one, just as plain as day, says, because he's here. And I couldn't make sense of that. Michael was only maybe a foot or so away from me. I mean, I couldn't turn and see him, but he was just behind me. Getting in touch with your body, do you sense anything touching any part of your body? Do you feel pressure anywhere in your body? My chest was heavy. Okay.

Starting point is 01:07:07 My chest was heavy. Okay. Do you sense any movement around you, any sound around you? Yeah, some hands was on me. Something felt like hands on me. Okay, where are those hands? On my chest.

Starting point is 01:07:24 Okay. My thighs. And what are those hands doing? What does it feel like? What are those hands doing? They're cutting into me, cutting into me. In what part of your body? My thighs, my thighs, my ankles, my ankles.

Starting point is 01:07:43 Both legs? Both legs. Okay. Just take a look down there towards your legs. You're doing just fine without feeling the pain or discomfort, just try to describe what is causing that? I don't know. I don't know. They were sticking me. They were sticking things in me. Okay. They were sticking things in me. I felt something going inside me.

Starting point is 01:08:09 Who is causing the discomfort on your legs? These funny-ass creatures. Whoever the hell it was. It wasn't a human. Okay. Do not fear. We mean. You know harm. Are those the same ones you saw out of your windshield? Spinning around that funny head shaped mother. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Starting point is 01:08:37 Okay. How many do you see down towards your legs? About three. Three. About three. Okay. It was freaking. It was feeling on me.

Starting point is 01:08:52 What's happening with your head? I'm going to touch your shoulders. I'm gonna touch your shoulder. Get out of me! You're gonna touch your shoulder. This is me. Touching your shoulder. Take a deep breath.

Starting point is 01:09:11 Take a deep breath. Remember you came out of it. Tell me what's happening. Tell me what's happening. They grabbed me. Grab me. Grabbed you where? What I'm going!

Starting point is 01:09:24 Okay, okay, okay. Let it all come out. Just continue describing it. I was punching the groin. Okay. I was punched. Then I stopped. Okay.

Starting point is 01:09:42 It stopped. My head stopped hurting. Okay. My eyes were still hurting. I couldn't open my eyes. I closed him. I opened him. Open him long enough to see what the hell was going on.

Starting point is 01:09:59 What's causing your eyes to be irritated? Lights. The lights? The lights. It was so bright. Okay. It was like an operating table. Like it was like operating table, you know?

Starting point is 01:10:08 Okay. Yeah. Okay. Michael, you're doing just fine. Well, keep that. Stay off me, man. Stay off me. Are they still touching your body?

Starting point is 01:10:19 Yeah. What heart? My chest, my chest. Okay. Tell me what they're doing on your chest. Push down, pressing out of my chest, pushing out of my chest. Okay.

Starting point is 01:10:30 They stopped. They put something in my mouth. What does it feel like? Rubber. Okay. I see writing. Take a look at the writing. Just try to describe it.

Starting point is 01:10:48 Where are you seeing the writing? Next to instruments or next to... Okay. ...nevers next to things that are all now like a console. And he takes this device that's connected to something else, not a wire, but a cable or something. He bends my wrist backwards. And he goes down into my wrist.

Starting point is 01:11:19 with it. And I keep me, he tells me you to relax. I'm not going to hurt you. I said, you are hurting me. You are hurting me. We're helping you. We're helping you. Oh, please. Stop. I asked, do you, do you help everybody? So that they need to be. You're doing just fine, Michael. You're doing just fine. Yeah. Get off me. Keep describing what's happening. Remember, You came out of it and you're safe. Just describe everything. They tear me on my stomach.

Starting point is 01:12:00 It starts like slicing my back, cut in my back. Cold, like a cold blade. Mm-hmm. To my spinal. To my spinal. Okay. And back and forth. Okay.

Starting point is 01:12:18 And they stopped. They stopped. Okay. They stopped. That was it. That was it. Mm-hmm. Do you feel anything else on your back?

Starting point is 01:12:33 No. Okay. I don't know how long I'm there, I don't know how long I've been there. I don't know what their intentions are. I'm just so afraid that I never get home again. I think about all the times I've ever From a boy when I've seen these things, when I'm not them, but their craft. They've been coming a very, very, very, very long time.

Starting point is 01:13:10 This is your planet. This is our planet. Where is it? I ask about Michael. I told Michael's okay. He'll be all right. Do you hear anything from them? Do you hear a message.

Starting point is 01:13:29 Do not fear. Do not fear. How do you feel watching that? I was... I was pissed. Yeah. I was pissed. I thought they were going to do some stuff to me, you know?

Starting point is 01:13:55 Yeah. I really did. I come and, you know, I'm on my stomach. I'm helpless and stuff. This ain't no jailhouse. This is here, you know? There ain't no peanut butter sandwich down the way. You got to pay me in some way.

Starting point is 01:14:10 You know what I'm coming from. But, you know, he didn't do anything. It didn't do anything. Stop by here at the end of my back right here. And then that was it. I remember that. I felt that. I felt it.

Starting point is 01:14:28 Because I was thinking, damn, they were going to do something to me. They were going to do something to me. Take specimens or something, they were going to insert something in me. Yeah. And that's actually a common thing. with experiencers, that sort of thing happens. And there are even theories that there's some sort of interspecies breeding program going on because of how common that is.

Starting point is 01:14:52 Yeah. Damn, man. Yeah. I must be a violating weird. Yeah, it was. You just have no control. Yeah. I couldn't do nothing.

Starting point is 01:15:01 You can't stop. I couldn't do nothing, you know. It was really hard to see you viscerally. Like, because I could hear through my, I knew that you're, as you were describing what they're doing, you're scratching the couch. Like the leather on the couch, and I just knew that was the most somatic part of what you were going through. Like, there was so much of your body contracting and you holding. I could tell that that was the deepest part that you've gone.

Starting point is 01:15:22 Damn it. Yeah. Because I was conscious, you know? Yeah. I'm sorry. I was conscious. No, and you could feel whatever anger or, you know, it's you're being rational. No, and everything.

Starting point is 01:15:36 And we as me and we know, uh-uh. Yeah. Oh, no, that ain't going to happen. But I was helpless. But I yelled. I kept screaming. Well, you know, it came up in your intro session with Yvonne before you went under. And I remember the detail coming out of you feeling just so uncomfortable and violated when they were examining you after.

Starting point is 01:16:00 Because you were also in your underwear. And I had to be in a room with a bunch of men undressed. With men on these, the military? Yes. And they made you take off your clothes? my uniform. And so they could examine, okay. I remember, I was like, huh, it's interesting that that detail really stuck out, you know,

Starting point is 01:16:20 after you've gone through, after you had gone through everything that you'd gone through. But it made sense when you went under it and it almost was like a trigger for something that you had just gone through. Because you were just violated on, you know, on the craft. And then now you're violated again by your, you know, fellow soldiers on the base. So that was like an interesting. interesting link as we were. Yeah.

Starting point is 01:16:43 I do remember I feel funny. You know what I'm saying? I feel funny and everything like that. And I thought they kicked me into nuts too, you know, and everything. Man, shoot. I wonder if it was like they were taking spinal fluid or, because it feels like that would be pretty central to any sample collection? Yeah, central nervous system.

Starting point is 01:17:08 Yeah. I knew that in biology. Yeah. Huh. Whoa. It's not easy to listen to, I'm sure. Man, that was awful. Yeah.

Starting point is 01:17:19 That was awful. Yeah. Do not fear. Two men, two rooms, hours apart, neither an earshot of the other. The same three words. Words Mario has attached to his memory since 1977. Whatever happened in November of 1977 at Ellsworth,

Starting point is 01:17:40 Those words were definitely a part of it. In the middle of the most gut-wrenching stretch of Michael's playback, Mario's phone pushed its verse of the day, and the verse was about fear. Fear not. Do not fear. What is the verse of the day? Like, now we have to give one step.

Starting point is 01:18:00 No fear is the search. Well, when I was sent to Keel in Control, I got a real strict briefing from Master Sergeant Gray. that of course, you know, reiterated everything that was said in Kermis Breaker's office about not talking and said people were talking and discussing what happened to he and I

Starting point is 01:18:32 to their best of what they had been told, which was not much. And even though things were not said, at guard mounts, for instance, a week's following, people just walked by you and just slow down and look at you. Even though they wouldn't say anything,

Starting point is 01:18:48 they wanted to. Or they would say something, into someone else and that person who might have been your friend would say, yeah, they think this and that and they think, you know, what the hell is wrong with you? Or, why would, you know, why did you and he go through this or, and nobody else has? And it really gets to you. I was not the drinking type. I didn't smoke. You know, a lot of guys around there was actually mad at me because I wouldn't play cards and, you know, drink or anything. I really got mad at me. So it was like, they thought, they thought it was like a gamble. Yeah. They thought maybe like I was

Starting point is 01:19:20 OSI, somebody or somebody undercover, snitching on. You know, we had snitches around there. But no, that wasn't me. It's just, that's how I grew up and everything. And as far as bullying, yeah, yeah. Because how I was at the time, back who, not too heavy, not heavy weight, and these guys coming from all walks of life and everything,

Starting point is 01:19:40 want to get away from what they've had. And they wanted everybody else to join them. I wouldn't join them, you know. They had their little gang. I wouldn't join them. So I was, actually, I outcast. And everything. Actually, I know I was riding back with somebody.

Starting point is 01:19:54 I was riding back with a sergeant. I can't remember his name. I can't remember his name. I was not talking. He kept saying, he's going to be all right here. Because I asked him, you know, what's going on here? Where are we going? And everything like that.

Starting point is 01:20:05 He said, we're going back to post. We're going back to base. We're going back. You know, we're going to go and talk some people. You remembering something else? Yeah, I remember. I remember I got into a fight with the sergeant. And one of the missile sites.

Starting point is 01:20:22 Okay. Poor. Because the way he was, they were questioning you and treating you? Yeah, he was trying to bully me, trying to bully me. He was bigger than me. Mm-hmm. And he tried to bully me. I told the site manager, I came out who the site manager name was.

Starting point is 01:20:47 I told me, you know, get him off me, leave me alone. Leave me alone, man. I'm tired of this, man. You all got to pick on me. Yeah, yeah. Try not to keep punishing yourself about that. You were defending yourself. You were defending yourself, you know, Michael.

Starting point is 01:21:09 Everybody will pick on me. I got tired of, I got fed up with it. Talk to be a nice guy. Yeah. Can leave me alone. Yeah. He kept, grabbed me. Everybody thought it was funny.

Starting point is 01:21:23 It wasn't funny. It was the funny way I put the M16 up to your neck, was it? It was a funny day about coughing up there. Everybody, everybody punked out. I remember, that's so scared. Yeah, you're the bitch, now what, you know? Yeah. Where this come from?

Starting point is 01:21:43 It's okay. It's all in there, Michael. Where did it come from? I mean, ooh. It's traumatic. I'm going to kill that, bitch. I'm going to kill them. I didn't care at that point.

Starting point is 01:21:56 I'm glad to didn't, though. I'm glad to it. No, man, I'm just so tired. Tired. Everything going this way, going to school. Why, I'm leaving this way. Here, I almost put me on the L's words. And you've been holding that in for all these years.

Starting point is 01:22:16 For all these years, Michael. Man, what I've been... And give yourself some credit for being here. Like I said, after I got... I just put a blank seat, after I got kicked out and everything, honorable discharge, I stayed in Rapid City for a while. Before I left, I talked to Muriel, you know, before I left and everything.

Starting point is 01:22:48 What do you recall about that conversation? What do they do to you, what they say? You know, let me come in, let me come in, let me come in, let me come in, we need to talk. Then Muriel started talking to me about, I can't remember what it was, but he said something. It was something that he asked me, did I see anything? I said, yeah, I saw it. I said, I saw it, but I don't know how they're going to make it seem like I didn't. Okay, but I just told them straight up, man.

Starting point is 01:23:19 Let's get some, this gets some drawings doing. Let's do something here, man. I saw something. I want to write it down before I forget. What did you draw? A funny-ass looking alien man. And I see what I've seen, what I've seen, everything, just, you know, almost like what a kid would draw and everything. Face, teeth, you know, everything like that.

Starting point is 01:23:39 I don't know what was affected had. Do you remember that being in your mind's eye? You remember seeing it? That's what I'm saying. I was drawing while I was seeing. And what did the being look like? What did the face look like? Angry.

Starting point is 01:23:52 Angry. Big eyes, angry. I remember I was in some place. I don't know where it was, but I was in another empty space or capsule or something. And I saw things that were flying around, floating around rather, whatever and everything. And so I just kind of just showed it off and everything because I didn't know for sure if I was on the floor, my head on the floor, and I'm trying to talk to somebody.

Starting point is 01:24:18 But I kept bumping, kept bumping, kept bumping to somebody, you know, and everything. And I thought it was Muriel, you know, like I was on this side, he was on that side. It was like it was on the table, you know. What happened back there, man? I was lying down somewhere. And there was a glove on a floor, a real shiny floor, nothing like the thing. inside of that truck. This is a crucial part of Michael and Mario's story.

Starting point is 01:24:47 Michael vividly remembered seeing one of Mario's gloves lying on a very shiny floor. Nobody else on patrol that night had a pair like these. Or Michael Jack's glove. Michael Jackson's glove. You remember the mic. I do remember the glove. I remember the other. The reason why I thought my attention was because I seen it with the glove and it was a nice, super nice glove.

Starting point is 01:25:09 That I was going to take it. The night of the incident, he pulled the right one off to work his flashlight. The same gloveless hand that the flight surgeon would later find burned. But again, Michael remembers seeing this glove on a shiny floor. And even though Mario took the glove off, he kept it with him. In the middle of all of this, that's what gets you. In the middle of all of it, you know, there's a glove on a shiny floor. And he said that to me.

Starting point is 01:25:35 You know, my wife, she was sitting over here, and he was sitting on the couch. And I was such a little bit of a round table. And he had a pad in front of him, and I had a pad in front of me and a pencil. And when he said that, I just looked at him and I crossed my head. I remember kind of looking, questioning myself, I said, wait a minute. Not my gloves, you know. I can't lose one of those because a B-52 pilot gave them to me my first couple of nights there at Ellsworth in the BAQ barracks, which is like a makeshift hotel.

Starting point is 01:26:07 When you first get to a base, you got to have a place to lay your head. So you can go to the BAQ, like hotel and spend the night. Well, he and I shared a room. There was like 10 beds in there. I was over in that end. That was that. And I just saw his stuff. He was unfolding.

Starting point is 01:26:22 And I said, man, those are bad ass gloves, man? He said, yeah, you're going to need some of these living here. He said, I've been here before. And he goes, here, take these. He just gave them to me. So I always prized those gloves. And I don't even know how to the left hand one now. But that day, and he said that.

Starting point is 01:26:40 I ran in my room and I kept my ditty bag or a hawk bag I kept it in the closet my wife didn't want to look at it so I grabbed it out an old gray looking bag I emptied that

Starting point is 01:26:51 and I zipped it and I emptied it on the couch next to you and I spread everything out you know I did everything and my left hand glove was there but the right hand glove was gone and I didn't even know that before

Starting point is 01:27:02 holy shit I'm missing one so you think the glove literally maybe was taken by the beings He was left. On the spaceship. Yeah.

Starting point is 01:27:14 Wow. Yeah, it was there. On the UFO. Yeah. On the floor of the UFO. I got the damn glove, man. And you pulled out your ditty bag because Michael was like, I remember seeing the glove on the floor and you only had one of the gloves in your bag. Well, my comment was, I said, Michael, an F-154 pickup truck's got rubber black mats.

Starting point is 01:27:33 What do you mean, a shiny floor? That brought my curiosity to it. So I ran in my bedroom and grabbed it. Yeah. Came back out there and unzipped. and dumped it radio, underwear, shave kit, everything, right on the couch. And there's my left-hand

Starting point is 01:27:47 glove, no right-hand glove. So somewhere floating around in the cosmos, you have your B-52 glove. They do. I mean, along with old radios and old TVs. Maybe it'll go in a museum. I don't know. That's right. Yeah. Mario, you also at certain points

Starting point is 01:28:15 remember walking through almost a room of like antiques, like old gramophones and vinyl plays. That was in a dream. I didn't recall that in hypnosis. What connected the dream with the abduction experience, possibly? Like, what makes you think that that might have been what you experienced in the crap?

Starting point is 01:28:36 The small being and the foggy atmosphere. Was the small being leading you through that room? Yes. He allowed me to go, took me into the room of old things and just allowed me to be there and to look. And I don't draw, I didn't draw it here, but on the back side of this wall, There's a window, and it's a round window, and it had a pie slice out of it. And he told me I could go look out that window, and I just shook my head. No, I don't want to see what's out of that window.

Starting point is 01:29:03 And I didn't go. But the iron, the solar machine, the stereo, the lamp post, was all items that we had in our home as I was growing up. Not these items, but items just like that in Fort Arthur, Texas. So that's when I took it that maybe they were, maybe they were like archaeologists or scientists in some way, collecting this stuff from the human race. I don't know. And asking our opinions of it or what have you. I don't know. Do you remember now when you try to remember the shiny floor of the UFO with the B-52 glove on top of it, Mario's glove?

Starting point is 01:29:44 Do you remember that? Oh, yeah. You do? I do. Wow. I do. I definitely do. Wow.

Starting point is 01:29:49 In fact, where I was sitting, where I was laying down when I saw it. I was laying down when I saw it. I was on, as I said, I was being probed and, you know, and everything. And turn it over and back. And I saw, I saw paper. I thought it was paper. It was a handglove. It was a glove.

Starting point is 01:30:11 I saw it, but I kept the note of it. I didn't pick it up, but I saw it. Because I was thinking he was still in the same room with me. Wow. Okay. So I kept that in my mind. So I was, my brain was scattered, like, you know, scattered. I remember the glove.

Starting point is 01:30:27 It was nice, clean, civil glove, you know, just because he bragged about it. I remember, you know what I'm saying? It was nice glad because I was going to take it. So even in while you're being sort of traumatized in this UFO, you're like, that glove's nice, and I wish I could take it right now. Yeah. You know, I was being dogged around anyway. What I'm saying?

Starting point is 01:30:50 And everything. When you recreate that face in your mind's eye, the big eyes, does that somehow feel familiar to you, or does it feel very foreign? No, I feel familiar. It feels familiar. You'll laugh at me about to see. I've seen guys, people walking among us, the head shape like that. And I have seen it.

Starting point is 01:31:14 Yeah. I have seen it. Does it feel friendly or does it feel neutral or negative? or does it have some sort of like emotional connotation? Mr. Fine. You know, I look at him, you know, like that, and he's just walking on among us, you know, but I just, I have seen strange-looking people my time.

Starting point is 01:31:35 You think there are some people in society that might not be fully human? Mm-hmm. I really do. I actually didn't think that, but I've been thinking that for years now. Well, you're not alone in thinking that. In fact, one of the kind of foremost pioneers in UFO research which is a billionaire named Robert Bigelow.

Starting point is 01:31:52 Okay. Who spent all sorts of resources in trying to, you know, figure out how UFOs fly and work. And he worked, you know, with the Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid in an official government capacity in order to kind of reverse engineer UFOs. And he is quoted, you know, in multiple interviews saying that aliens walk among us. Yeah, they could be among us, you know, whether they're hybrids or there's some other kind of, of really look alike, you know, kind of thing.

Starting point is 01:32:24 So I think you're in good company, but you texted me something very interesting before coming out here. You said, can't wait to see you guys. I appreciate what you had been doing to make me feel a little easy after a half a century of not knowing who I am.

Starting point is 01:32:40 What did you mean by that? I think what I meant by that was nobody believed me. Okay, I won't talk about that much. I felt like, you know, it's just something that I would have to take with me to my grave. Anything nobody believed me. And my morale was down, okay? I was going to change his depression and everything at that time.

Starting point is 01:33:04 A lot of things hit me hard. I stay to myself a lot and don't talk to people. Yeah. And that's a bad thing to do. I need to talk. I go to the VA now, more than I ever have, and start talking about the circumstances. things to ease my mind because I can't sleep at night. I have a hard time to sleep. I can't sleep. I wake up two or three in the morning and I got to be at work at eight and everything. And that

Starting point is 01:33:30 really took a toll on me mentally, angers, mental angers. But when I got in touch with you guys, I felt a lift up. I felt a lift. I felt a lift in everything. Oh, snap. Somebody out here relate with me. You know what I'm saying? Relate with me. You know? And then when you By him, I said, wow, it had changed my life. I'm about to retire, and this is coming out on me. Damn, boy, you know, I felt good. I felt good. You should know, but do you know who Robert Hastings is, Michael?

Starting point is 01:34:05 I heard of him. He's amazing. He's really just an honorable, good guy. And for decades, has thanklessly, and thanklessly is an understatement. It really is. with a lot of backlash and at times death threats and and calls to his house has just been with not a lot of, you know, money coming in as a result of this, has chronicled people like yourself and Mario and other, you know, guys working at nuclear bases all over the country and even certain civilian energy grids. Yeah. Where he's just, you documented this ubiquitous connection between nuclear and UFOs and tick-tack, saucers, orbs, all these sorts of, you know, crowds.

Starting point is 01:34:46 showing up at these sites, often tampering with the nukes. In certain cases, actually affecting the employees directly. Sometimes you have close encounters of the third kind. But if you read his book, it's almost 600 pages, and you come out of it, and your stories don't exist in a vacuum. They don't exist in isolation at all. They're of a variety. And so we actually have two copies that we just bought, and I'll gift you a copy. Yeah.

Starting point is 01:35:14 But that, I mean, so just so you really feel like you're not alone, you have all these guys in this book who've experienced similar retributions. Yeah. I read it. Yeah, it's a great book. Definitely with that. And we're in it. Yeah, you guys are in the book. You're in the book.

Starting point is 01:35:28 I'm in the book. Oh, I don't know. Oh, yeah. Your name's in. You're in there. Here's a book. That's it right time? Yeah.

Starting point is 01:35:35 Check it out. The nuclear connection is longstanding, widespread, and ongoing. Hastings is a legendary journalist, UFO researcher, and the author of UFOs and Nukes, a nearly 600-page book comprehensively chronicling UFO experiences across nuclear bases in the United States and abroad. A former American alchemy guest, he's spent decades meticulously examining the nuclear UFO link through experiencers like Mario. He's met almost 170 of them, to be exact. Missile Security, radar operators, weapons officers, photo instrumentation specialists, you name it. All of these guys, time and time again, report seeing orbs, lights, tick-tacks, hovering over

Starting point is 01:36:28 extremely sensitive military assets, sometimes tampering with nukes directly, and sometimes, as in Mario's case, abducting the people guarding them. Maumstrum Air Force Base, 1967. 10-minute-man nuclear missiles go offline while security police report an object over the gate. This was confirmed by two men in two different rooms, one of whom was launch control officer Bob Salas, who's been on the show. We're talking between September of 66 and March of 67. We lost 30 missiles to UFO activity.

Starting point is 01:37:21 30. That's pretty, pretty insane. Big Sur, September 1964. An Air Force camera crew films an object firing beams at a dummy nuclear warhead in flight. And the officer who captured it is told, Lieutenant Jacobs, you are never to speak of this again. It never happened. And then he was deleted from the government. That photo instrumentation officer, Bob Jacobs, was definitely in the government.

Starting point is 01:37:50 In fact, he managed 130 people in the government. in his role. Yeah, I had a hundred thirty-four guys working for me, and I had two schools from college who were my commanding people. And I also have something called a DD-14. And later in the 90s, he was finally vindicated and given backup by his major, Florence Mansman, who was also aware of the UFO incident. Also in September of 1964 at Vandenberg, another missile security officer, Richard Barth, was

Starting point is 01:38:22 taken aboard a craft with four eight years. alien beings. While being abducted, Barth was told by one of the beings that they needed to do recon on human nuclear missiles so they could ensure that humanity wouldn't destroy itself. And if you're wondering, Barth and Jacobs didn't even know that one another existed. I've spoken to many of these witnesses personally. They've all served their country with honor and pride and now have completely normal lives outside of their remarkable experiences.

Starting point is 01:39:01 Unless you think that this is only occurring at American nuclear bases, look no further than the Rendlesham Forest incident in 1980. This English forest was the site of the largest nuclear stockpile in Europe at the time. Or you can go as far as Japan. UFOs are spotted so frequently by Fukushima, famous for its nuclear energy grid, that there's a local mountain called Mount Sengon Mori, with a museum dedicated to UFOs at a time. its base. Or take presidential advisor Harold Malmgren, who held pieces of a UFO in his hands that

Starting point is 01:39:40 came down from a high-altitude nuclear test in the Marshall Islands, the Blue Gill Triple Prime test. The pieces were collected and rushed off to Sandia National Labs in New Mexico, where Lawrence Preston Geis, Jeff Bezos's maternal grandfather, and the future founder of DARPA, showed Malgrim the pieces. He reached for some stuff sitting on his desk. These are things that have come down. Round rock, you know.

Starting point is 01:40:09 So you're looking at like anomalous material? Yeah. Debris. Yeah. Take even canonical cases like the Roswell crash in 1947. Roswell wasn't a random desert in America. It was the largest concentration of nuclear weapons in the world at the time. It was the only one. Finally, South Dakota's own Ellsworth Air Force Base itself has a long history of UFOs showing

Starting point is 01:40:34 up on site. On August 5, 1953, a trained civilian spotter calls into the base. A blazing light is suspended low on the horizon, pulsing, and within minutes, radar at the South Dakota base locks on to that unknown object. What happens next becomes legend. One pilot gets dispatched and chases the object for 120 miles across the prairie. He can't catch it. The thing keeps a perfect three-mile gas, toying with him, pulling away from a military jet

Starting point is 01:41:09 like it's standing still. This thing's flight capabilities are not normal. And it doesn't end there. That same night, the UFO rolls into Bismarck, North Dakota, where 45 stunned townspeople and military air defense personnel, watch strange lights dance across the sky for two nights straight. Radar, pilots, dozens of witnesses across two states.

Starting point is 01:41:37 Even Captain Edward J. Rupelt, the head of Project Blue Book, the Air Force's own UFO Investigations Unit, called it the best UFO report in their files. And to this day, the Air Force has never explained it. And in 1978, one year after, Mario and Michael, a security team at the base abandoned a silo with the access plug open, which no security policeman does unless he's more afraid of what's above ground than of the

Starting point is 01:42:06 court martial. The stories are endless, all at Ellsworth. Mario and Michael didn't join that pattern by reading about it. They joined it together at 12.15 a.m. on duty. But the history of UFOs goes beyond this amazing 600-page book. There are thousands of documents from 19, In 1945, the advent of nuclear weapons, in 1954, the first time a U-2 spy plane was ever built, so there were no high-altitude recon planes in existence at the time that discuss UFOs around nuclear bases all over the United States. No skeptic has ever been able to explain this away, and I don't think they'll ever be able to.

Starting point is 01:42:51 Drones were invented decades later, and the documents come from every government agency, Army, Navy, CIA, FBI, and they definitely all didn't coordinate well with each other at the time. What really got me was of all those sites out there, why, November 5, the closest to a town, closest to the launch control facility, and the least amount of travel time for all other nine missiles. I don't have no clue. They know, they know that sites connect. I mean, what is their visual acuity of being able to see things under our ground? I don't know.

Starting point is 01:43:31 Electrical wires leading all the way back to November control, 50 feet below the ground. Can they see that? Sure they can. Nuclear, man, nuclear. You know, well, the nuclear is contained in the head of that missile, though. It's not all over the side. What is it? Uranium, man, you know?

Starting point is 01:43:46 No, that's in the, that's in, that's there. Somebody wants something. Somebody wants something. They know it's there. They know it's there. Do you know of other cases on Ellsworth Air Force Base across the years? Two other cases. Two other cases.

Starting point is 01:43:58 Which, what do you know about? Before we got there, there was another case in Wall, South Dakota, where two guys were, it was in the echo area, responded to another site. And I was told this at a later time. And anyway, the two guys were somehow separated at the site itself, and one was found like a quarter mile away with very few clothes on, weapon. and everything else, not missing, but way away from him and not in his ultimate control. And the other guy was out of the vehicle, and he was a couple of hundred yards away from the vehicle, which was sitting outside of the facility itself, outside of the LF. And he, too, was like 90% naked.

Starting point is 01:44:54 And it was extremely cold, and somehow somebody found him. I don't know if a backup alert team found him with the story that I got was kind of broken. Who'd you hear the story from? From a guy that was out in the field, was talking about it. That's strange, too. I heard that too. After our incident. Because, you know, people asked, people heard about this stuff with us.

Starting point is 01:45:18 People asked me about it in the field. I mean, when I'm in the Keel of Control, I mean, there was nothing but officers there. And the flight chief and your sister flight chief and all visitors that came out to tour of the facilities, they came to kilo. They'd been separated and one of their clothes had been removed. Yeah, both of them.

Starting point is 01:45:35 Both of them. Their vehicle was two, three hundred yards away. Weapons were separated from. They had little or no clothes on. And it's extremely cold. And it's not laying down in grass out there. That's some, you know,

Starting point is 01:45:49 I don't know if you walked around Robert's place. Did you see the cactus on the ground there? Yeah. Well, that's similar. How common do you think this is? you know I probably heard about four or five other cases and not just in the missile field

Starting point is 01:46:05 but back at Ellsworth also of objects coming down the runway over the weapon storage area WSA or the uploaded aircraft on the alert pad which at that time were B-52 bombers and then when aircraft were scrambled

Starting point is 01:46:24 to see what these things were they just flew off in a distance and vanished. The jets would come back. And I think some of this was even in the late 50s. They would come back. They'd re-scramble the jets after again. They'd be playing hide-and-seat half the night.

Starting point is 01:46:44 I mean, one other thing thought I had is if, you know, if this Eisenhower rumor that, like, there was a deal done in 1954 at Edwards, Air Force Base and he was, you know, had this dentist appointment. He was in Palm Springs. But in fact, it was really a cover in order. to do a deal with the aliens in order for them to, you know, basically have access to the American population as far as medical experimentation. Where would you want to limit the medical experimentation to? It would probably be these nuclear sites. You'd probably want to confine a lot of the medical

Starting point is 01:47:15 experimentation to where you already have the most kind of ironclad secrecy set up, all of these protocols. That's a good way to think about it. And so I wonder if like, you're like, yeah, you can, you know, abduct people in our population, but, like, Like, you know, most of them have to be, you know, in these sites. Be military or should be something in conjunction with those sites. Is that what you mean? Yeah. And then Air Force Office of Special Investigations has like more of a sense that they can rapidly respond.

Starting point is 01:47:41 Right. Because they know, you know, okay, there's something going on at these nuclear sites where we're already, we're already like we have our kind of apparatus set up. Somebody told me long ago about that very thing that, that these visitors already have. had a place picked out where they wanted to reside or be able to be here on this planet. And, of course, it was under a mountain range, and it was Dulcy. That's fascinating. I didn't even know the name then. I'd never heard of it before.

Starting point is 01:48:14 Have you ever seen, let me show you a picture of a guy, and then I want to see if he looks familiar to you. I don't want to give you the name. I just want to see if the face looks familiar. Hold on. Does this guy look familiar at all? Like a younger version of her? Simple, calm talking and everything.

Starting point is 01:48:38 He was very calm talking. The one I'm looking at, he was very calm talking, very smart. I see a, I can't picture him, but I see a guy like him. Like you say, younger version, younger version. He had glasses on, but, you know. Shut him Rick Doty. Good job. There's one thing that rings true across all of the.

Starting point is 01:48:59 these cases, the Air Force Office of Special Investigations, OSI, always shows up. They swear the witness to secrecy, sometimes threatening them into silence. But Mario's debrief involved perhaps the most infamous Air Force Office of Special Investigations agent of all time. Rick Doty For 37 years, Mario didn't know it. The junior OSI agent at his Ellsworth debrief was just a face. until 2014.

Starting point is 01:49:32 When that exact face showed up in his living room, and Mario shouted at the TV, I know that guy. The name on the screen was Richard Doty. If you don't know that name, here's what four decades of reporting has established. Richard Doty spent the early 1980s as a special agent stationed at Curtland Air Force Base

Starting point is 01:49:52 running disinformation against UFO researchers. That's not an accusation. It's his own admission, backed both by doctor, released under the Freedom of Information Act, and a great book called Project Beta by Greg Bishin. Bishop documents the infamous case of Paul Benowitz, an Albuquerque-based engineer and businessman who thought he'd detected something anomalous,

Starting point is 01:50:17 flying over the base. And instead of being given a simple slap on the wrist, he was fed fabrications about local, quote-unquote, alien bases in nearby Dulcey, New Mexico. He was given forged documents and invented until he basically unraveled right into a psychiatric hospital. At one point, he was even given a computer that he was told could decode alien signals, a challenge and duty he became obsessed with.

Starting point is 01:50:46 He was delivered occasional true fragments braided with lies, all to protect what were probably real classified programs he had been snooping on while living across the street from Kirtland. The whole unfortunate saga is chronicled beautiful. beautifully by Bishop. And it made Doty the most radioactive name in this subject. The government's UFO man, and the reason you can't trust the government on UFOs. At some point, the government's strategy on UFOs moved from, be silent about what you saw or else, to, oh yeah, you saw an alien.

Starting point is 01:51:20 In fact, there are 16 races of aliens from four different star systems, and you happen to meet the lizard people from Kepler 186. In other words, it moved from a categorical non-admission of anything to a promotion of everything. Flood the zone with nonsense. Understanding truth involves finding a signal in the noise. To divert from the truth, then, you can try to stamp out the signal, but that can be hard. Sometimes it's easier to just increase the noise. State your name.

Starting point is 01:51:54 I'm Michael. Michael Johnson. That's right. And nothing happened last night. Did it? Nothing happened. Now look at what was done with Mario's case in 1977 at Ellsworth. Literally, a fake incident was created in 1977 in November to discredit Mario and Michael's experience.

Starting point is 01:52:15 The event is known as the November 1977 site L9 incident. There's even a famous supposed Air Force document claiming that on November 16th, 1970, a day before Mario and Michael's real experience, at Site L9 Minuteman Missile Field, north of Ellsworth, aliens shot at Air Force security with a beam weapon at a launch facility. That's right, this document says that aliens supposedly attacked a nuclear site. The Air Force document reads like a security log. At 8.59 p.m., on November 16th, 1977, an Outer Zone alarm goes off at

Starting point is 01:52:57 at L9, and a two-man security alert team, just like Michael and Mario, A1C Jenkins and A1C Rakey is dispatched. On arrival, they see a bright light shining vertically from behind the fence. Again, kind of similar to Michael and Mario. Rakey goes to investigate and encounters an alien-looking figure in a glowing green metallic uniform

Starting point is 01:53:19 with a helmet and a visor. The being then aims some unknown weapon that disintegrates Rakey's M-16 and burns his hands. Jenkins then sees two figures, fires two rounds at them, and watches them board a saucer about 20 feet in diameter that glows green, climbs vertically, and vanishes to the east. The document escalates from there, nuclear components missing from a warhead, Rakey hospitalized, and his rifle never found. Written on a supposed Air Force letterhead, this document would be totally remarkable if it weren't totally fake, a documented hope.

Starting point is 01:53:59 There's no matching Air Force record for this document, a Freedom of Information Act claim that was never substantiated was the source of it, and misspellings like missile with no second eye, and launched but spelled with no use, so it's spelled like Lanch. Strategic is spelled both as strategic and strategic. Also, just look at the second page of that document. Four names, four social security numbers. Airman Rakey's number ends in seven. 7.556. Sergeant Stewart's number also ends in 7556. Investigator Brad Sparks showed the radiation

Starting point is 01:54:38 figures were physically wrong for the actual survey meters, and the calm news report tone didn't exactly match what you'd expect from an official document describing missing nuclear warhead components. These are errors no Air Force typists would ever make in a classified missile security report. No airmen ever came forward, no hospital record ever surfaced. This is literally pure BS. But why would such a story like this get fabricated? Well, it's probably not a coincidence that this story is about a two-man team, just like Michael and Mario, getting attacked by aliens in November of 1977 just a day before their actual event occurred. But it gets even crazier. The trail on this fake document leads back to none other than Richard C. Doty.

Starting point is 01:55:34 According to well-respected physicist and UFO researcher Bruce Maccabee, researcher Bill Moore acknowledged that Doty confessed to forging the Ellsworth document, the entire L-9 incident made up by Doty. The same special agent with the Air Force Office of Special Investigations, who has publicly described being tasked with hoaxing the documents that psychologically destroyed Albuquerque businessman Paul Benowitz. The same Rick Doty who now himself admits to being present at Mario Woods' debrief. So I'll let you be the judge, but it kind of seems like Rick Doty might have been

Starting point is 01:56:15 in training for Air Force counterintelligence during Mario's debrief, a role he officially started a year later. But maybe this was his first disinfo job. Pretty crazy, but it's also intelligence at its finest. It's an age-old tactic. Surround the truth with a bodyguard of lies. Create slightly modified versions of the truth that are provably false, so that anyone who finds and publicly promotes the truth is considered crazy. You're essentially inoculating the public against the truth, ensuring that they never

Starting point is 01:56:54 look into a topic again by pre-stigmatizing it. So I think it's a reasonable conclusion that Doty ingested the details of Mario and Michael's abduction and crafted a false but very similar story to ensure that no one would ever take it seriously again. Of course, ultimately we'll always be left speculating and we won't have a smoking gun. But if you aren't already sure, then take this fact. Doty actually did a podcast with Mario, where he tried to double down on the story. And then he tried to cover his tracks by saying some of the

Starting point is 01:57:30 details were mistaken. He was so covered by the guys that did the podcast that it was very difficult to get a straight answer out of any three of them. And it was really quite frustrating. I'll let you go find that footage. It's available to anyone who searches. But unfortunately, this all means that Mario's skin samples, and probably both Michael and Mario's files, passed through the hands of a man who 18

Starting point is 01:58:00 months later would begin one of the longest running deception campaigns in the history of this subject. For a long time, you had been saying that Jack Reed was the officer in charge in your case. I'm not case. And then you bring it up to Doty and he was just very casually admitted that that was the case. Yeah. That's fascinating. And he acted at very beginning like he didn't know Michael's name. And I said, well, I asked him, I said, what do you mean you don't know his name?

Starting point is 01:58:28 You knew my name. Why would you not know Michael's name? because he tried to, he just kind of, he just tried to shove it off a little bit and I just nailed him on it. This show literally never comes after people gratuitously and I don't want to hammer on Doty. But if I had one message to him,

Starting point is 01:58:46 I would implore him now. If he is in fact continuing any of his flood the zone strategy with aliens and UFOs, just lay off, dude, leave 70-year-old Mario alone. He's clearly gone through enough. And the American people deserve

Starting point is 01:59:02 better too. So I hope for all of our sake and his, that Doty, if he had any involvement with that fake 1977 Ellsworth Alien Attack document, if he could just come forward and come clean, just as he did with the stories he fed Paul Benowitz. Again, Mario and Michael don't need that validation, but it would at least be a sign of respect and the best way to repent. Michael, how do you feel now that you know that in society, the frame is actually flipping where before maybe it was this shameful thing that you had to kind of shove in the trunk and not talk about. And now it's celebrated and seen as a really unique kind of inquiry and foray into the nature of reality who human beings are, which were just kind of starting to get to the

Starting point is 01:59:50 bottom of. But it's being accepted at the highest levels. The president is now talking about it. you know, the Pentagon is looking into this officially. It's no longer this stigmatized thing. How do you feel about that? It's disappointed. Because it was there. Here, when I saw, it was there when I was little boy seeing it. And oh, now, the government, now they want to talk about it now.

Starting point is 02:00:13 You know, the files are open now for this. People have been seeing this for the longest time. I have seen strange occurrences in Missouri, in the Ozarks. Texas, Air Force. I've seen it. Now they want to make it a sense,

Starting point is 02:00:30 well, it's normal thing now. No, it wasn't normal when we saw it, but now you're going to make it normal. I feel a little disgusting. I accept it,

Starting point is 02:00:37 but I feel disgusted, though, by the door. I really do, because we've been saying people had died saying that what they had seen. People passed away. Great grandmother's,

Starting point is 02:00:46 our forefathers, seen this. Hell, it'd been back in slavery, civil war days. Strange things happening. Sure did. Vietnam. Okay.

Starting point is 02:00:54 Food fighters through war. Yeah. Yeah, you think you're shooting somebody. You ain't shooting at nothing. Brissing a fire out there. The guy in Vietnam told me that. You know what I'm saying? It's spook.

Starting point is 02:01:05 Oh, sorry. No, don't apologize. I think you're right. He kept a 50-year-old order to keep his experience a secret out of habit and shame. Long after the Air Force forgot he existed. In Mario, Mario kept it for a different reason. After the service, he went to the Department of Energy. Oak Ridge, Los Alamos,

Starting point is 02:01:31 acute clearance, reinvestigated every 18 months. One word about his first-hand sighting of beams and beings and that career quickly grinds to a halt. I had to repress this because my first clearance took over eight months to obtain, which I couldn't quite understand

Starting point is 02:01:50 because I never had any infractions or anything like that with a law. When I was discharged, I was discharged under honorable conditions. and went directly to working forward to the U.S. Department of Energy. And after that first clearance, it wasn't four months later, they were doing another clearance on me, a recheck. So when they do that, then, you know, it's just not a one-on-one thing

Starting point is 02:02:17 because the Office of Personnel Management does these clearance checks. So they research everything back about 17, 18 years. and they'll pull up your second and third grade school teachers that they can find them into their line. They're trying to set, they're trying to get like averages and they can see what kind of person is somebody that comes from a young age.

Starting point is 02:02:38 That's how they can kind of gauge things. I mean, I really believe that. I have a lot of faith in them. And just four months after my original clearance, after all the guys kept looking to me like, what the hell's taking you so long? What did you do? And puts that good.

Starting point is 02:02:54 trip on you. You know, I once, I once had a guy at DOE tell me, you know, talking about, because anytime I could talk to some of these people about some of these things, I would. And these people are basically, they'll say anything for a little bit of attention. They'll, they'll talk to you because nobody really talks to them. There's no clocks. There's no windows in their laboratories. Have you ever had any conversations with any of those people that lead you to believe that we have UFOs and hangers? We have craft. We have technology. They'd ever said full craft on alien being or anything like that.

Starting point is 02:03:30 But I was always interested in what do we have? Well, I had one guy just say, well, I can, their propulsion systems are not built. They're grown. What? Yeah. Propulsion system is not built. It's grown. We've talked a bit about longevity and life extension on this show.

Starting point is 02:03:51 extending your telomeres, metabolic optimization, and the through line is always the same. Most of what determines how long you live comes down to really basic stuff, not these more exotic treatments. I think about that sometimes when I realize it's 10 p.m. and I haven't eaten all day because I was deep in prep for the next episode, which is kind of the story of my life since I moved to Austin. Occasionally I'll be so deep in work that I'll forget to eat, and then I end up demolishing whatever's closest at midnight. Guys, this solution is amazing. It's a game changer for anyone who's busy.

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Starting point is 02:05:42 had a few late nights reading about magnetic pole shifts. But with this mask, I look like I actually slept. Did I? That's debatable. It's warm, wireless, convenient, and makes your skin feel super soft. And I Restore is kicking off their summer savings with some very big discounts. Right now, you can get the Elite plus Aluminah Face Mask bundle at an exclusive deal when you use code Jesse at irrestore.com. That's Jesse, J-E-S-S-E at irrestore.com. Please support our show and tell them we sent you. I was always interested in what do we have? Well, I had one guy just say, well, I can, their propulsion systems are not built. They're grown.

Starting point is 02:06:24 What? Yeah. Propulsion system is not built. It's grown. Like a biological material or something? Yeah. It's grown. That's what he told me.

Starting point is 02:06:34 And then did you say, what does that mean? Of course I did. Well, I can't go into that, but I'm just telling you they're not built as we assemble an engine or a V8 engine. These are, they're grown. And who was this? Like high level description. Yeah. Somebody that had the capability of running a control room at Los Alamos for a burst of an element.

Starting point is 02:06:57 Interesting. That was in charge of that. Whoa. When you say a burst of an element. Yeah. Of a mercium. I think that's element. Is that 95?

Starting point is 02:07:07 Okay. I think it's 95. When you say a burst of an element. Yeah. When they put it into a reactor. Put it into a reactor and they subject it to, alpha, beta, or gamma, and they... Look for different isotope.

Starting point is 02:07:22 They burst it like it would be like a mini blast, but it's contained. It's just granular at this point. And then they can scale up, you know, for whatever else it's intended to do. Do you say anything else? Metal surfaces were... Could be manipulated to, like,

Starting point is 02:07:43 put things through, in or out. and whatever, whatever that means. What does that mean? Metal surfaces. Metal surfaces or surfaces that can be penetrated or exited from or entered into, like pass through a wall or past. Like solid objects. Yeah, solid objects.

Starting point is 02:08:03 Oh, yeah. I mean, that, that seems to be like what you see them do. Materialize, dematerialize it well and then pass through solid objects. It all has to be frequency and sound. And they're studying the hell out of that right there. Well, if you were also, you had like perfect macroscope. you know, quantum coherence, then you could theoretically, like, pass through a wall or something.

Starting point is 02:08:21 Sure. At night time, I do see, but nobody knows, listen to me, I did see lights out in there around the nucleus sites and everything. I said, there ain't no human helicopters, there's no black hawk. That's not even a B-52. You know, it goes up, wake out, go down. So I just start maybe just, I just saw just some reflection on lights. So you saw other UFOs at Ellsworth Air Force Base before your experience?

Starting point is 02:08:45 Yeah, I did. But who I'm going to tell it to? Nobody ain't going to believe me, you know what I'm saying? And I just said, well, you know, even on Pine Ridge, Indian Reservation, you know, I saw one. I saw two of them, two on Pine Ridge. Now it's time for an update, because since we've filmed this, Michael has recovered all sorts of other crazy memories. He's piecing things together at a rapid pace. And some of these new fragments are remarkable.

Starting point is 02:09:13 He told us that in the weeks before that November night, cattle had been turning up dead around the missile field. These cattle were not killed by predators. Often their eyes were missing. Sometimes their tongue would be missing. One of them was split in half. In certain cases, they were bloodless, marked with precise incisions. Your classic cattle mutilations.

Starting point is 02:09:36 Cattle mutilations were a real documented problem across the Northern Plains in the 70s. Sheriffs investigated. States did. the FBI eventually did too. Nobody ever explained them. And when Michael photographed one of these mutilations, his camera was confiscated. Make of that what you will. All of these nuclear sites are also on sacred Native American lands.

Starting point is 02:10:04 And so there's something about, it's like the Skinwalker thing, and, you know, Lakota land in Ellsworth's case. But all of these sites are on. Colorado. F.E. Warren, Cheyenne, Wyoming. Yeah. Chey and Wyoming. Oh, yeah. Yeah.

Starting point is 02:10:19 So what's that about? There's one part of this story we haven't turned the page on yet, the land itself. Ellsworth, as with many American nuclear sites, is placed on some of the most sacred Native American land in existence. A bit of history. American Indian lands are estimated to hold as much as 50% of potential U.S. uranium reserves. In fact, Edgemont, South Dakota, at the southwestern edge of the Black Hills, about 80 miles from Ellsworth, was one of the earliest uranium boom towns during the Cold War. So Ellsworth is in close proximity to enriched uranium, making it a great candidate for storing

Starting point is 02:11:06 nuclear warheads. But it wasn't so convenient for everybody. 150-minute man silos were sunk into land that was guaranteed to the Great Sioux Nation by the 1868 Fort Laramie Treaty, a case that was apparently so egregious that the courts called it as dishonorable a dealing as American history contains. In fact, the Lakota Sioux people have refused compensation for the territory over 40 years because taking it would accept the premise that they gave up the Black Hills in the first place. They call the territory Hei Sapa Paha Sapa, which translates directly to the heart of everything that is. Not a name that you'd call anything that you'd part with lightly.

Starting point is 02:11:58 In Lakota Cosmology, the hills are specifically a sky place, a star map where ceremonial sites on the ground mirror the concept. the constellations above, where the thunder beings arrive at Bear Butte in storm and lightning to deliver terrifying transformative visions, where fallen stars descended from the sky world, and where the seven girls rose from Bear Lodge to become Pleiades. The American government, in other words, took the region its peoples understood as the hinge between the earth and the sky and planted the apocalypse in it. farther southwest was the Navajo Nation, a people also deeply connected to the cosmos in their traditions and teachings. They also inhabited land rich in uranium that would later

Starting point is 02:12:48 be mined to build the nuclear warheads at Ellsworth. Their most important tradition, the Navajo Night Chant, a sacred nine-day winter healing ceremony centered on restoring balance, health, and harmony. Remember this Navajo Night chant, because it will come up again in this video. I hadn't seen close encounters yet either. That was the next thing afterwards. A couple weeks later went to see close encounters. Well, aren't the similarities with close encounters just wild with your guys' experience? Because you see the car get sucked up onto the craft, right?

Starting point is 02:13:26 Well, you know, I saw the part where he pulls up to the mailboxes, puts the flashdite in his mouth, Roy and Erie. And the mailboxes start rocking. Of course, that's Hollywood, you know. But, you know, 77, they got curiosity of a great. deal and then that light hit him and then it seemed as if everything inside the truck started moving it reminded me of us everything started like being pulled up or like there was no gravity in there or something and then the uh he seems to be uh you hear these low-pitched hums in the movie

Starting point is 02:14:04 you can see it today and then you see him he's kind of he's kind of as if somebody's programming him or sending him something that he is either downloading or under, well, it is a download, understanding of something different. It doesn't know what it is. And then all of a sudden it just goes out, that blackness. And then it reappeared at the intersection. Am I correct? Okay.

Starting point is 02:14:28 That part right there, I didn't watch to the intersection then at all. I got up and took out, I took out of the theater. I had to, I just ran out and sat on the curve on Main Street right there, right there in front of the theater. My wife came out a few minutes later. She said, what is wrong? I said, I can't watch that part. I feel like they're, I feel like they're portraying my life in there on that screen. Wow. That's what I said. Richard Dreyfus also receives a sunburn in the movie. Yeah. And you guys both received burns. Yeah. And samples were taken of your burns. Correct. Correct. I didn't know if they had on Michael or not.

Starting point is 02:15:03 I didn't, I didn't know. And a sunburn is basically just UV damage. And so if you think about, you know, red shifts and blue shifts, you know, kind of stretching and crunching light, which is what these crafts would do if they're flying in the ways we think they fly. And that's what they would cause. They would cause, you know, irradiation. Said because he's here. And I didn't say, didn't say my name, didn't say his name, just said because he's here. That was exactly what was said. If anything, this Spielberg coincidence makes me think we're living in some bizarre simulation. Close encounters comes out the same week Mario has his experience.

Starting point is 02:15:46 And now, in the midst of reconnecting with his long-lost partner, Spielberg decides to release Disclosure Day, about two experiencers abducted together in childhood but separated for decades. They reconnect through synchronicities and experience a hypnotic regression together, unlocking the truth about their past. Sometimes the truth is truly stranger than fiction. The bizarre synchronicities don't stop there. 1977 generally was also just an explosive year for alien contact. Just listen to all these firsts.

Starting point is 02:16:28 In August, a radio telescope in Ohio caught the wow signal, a strong, narrowband, 72-second signal out of the Sagittarius constellation. Nothing like it before or since, possibly an extraterrestrial broadcast, and one that's sitting unexplained to this day. And that same month, almost as if whoever sent the wow signal knew this was about to happen, Voyager 2 left Earth, followed 16 days later by Voyager 1. Two robotic explorers sent towards the outer planets and eventually interstellar space. to act as humanity's message in a bottle.

Starting point is 02:17:11 As the Secretary General of the United Nations, I sent greetings on behalf of the people of our planet. Each spacecraft carried what was known as a golden record, containing the sights and sounds of planet Earth, a mother's soothing voice, a whale song, the composer Bach, greetings in 55 different languages.

Starting point is 02:17:42 A family portrait, Monument Valley, and, you guessed it, the Navajo Night Chan, humanity's own attempt at first contact, a record pressed with a prayer for harmony. In fact, this year, 2026, on November 18th, at 3.16am Mountain Time. Exactly 49 years from the time Mario and Michael were blacked out aboard a spacecraft, Voyager 1 will be exactly one full light day away from Earth. You couldn't write that up. The first interstellar probe ever sent out by humanity to make contact with an ET civilization breaks this huge milestone 49 years to the hour of Mario and Michael's experience, and just months

Starting point is 02:18:43 after their reconnection. Humanity has spent those 49 years waiting patiently for a reply. for another narrow band hit, maybe from Sagittarius. Mario spent those 49 years waiting on a reply from a partner that had vanished. But maybe the lesson here is that contact isn't still crossing the darkness toward us through space. It's already here. And in 1977, it was looking down into our missile silos, transfixed by our dual nature of good and evil,

Starting point is 02:19:15 of love and fear. Michael, if you had a best guess, what do you think the beings that you and Mario encountered in 1977 were? Well, I think it was. Do I think it were? Yeah, where are they from? Who are they? If you had to guess. I just guess they'd been here before on this earth. They're back for a visit. I really feel that. I feel that there have been people here before us. Strange beings and stuff. They don't have to be in the same form we all in, you know what I'm saying? that had been the same form,

Starting point is 02:19:49 but I do believe that there had been life here for us and everything, and it's still here right now, among us. What about family history or when you were a kid? Because we know with Mario, he actually saw something with his mom, and it's usually a common thing with experiencers that you'd check their childhood enough,

Starting point is 02:20:07 you'd check their family history, and you'll see something come up. Yeah. Do you have anything like that? I had strange thoughts, strange sightings, but my father's, I know my father, my mother, my sister, my brother, was interested in, you know what I'm saying? I was not interested in everything.

Starting point is 02:20:25 I would sit out there in St. Louis. I'm from St. Louis, okay, if you know St. Louis and Missouri and all that. I would be out there at night at the park, O'Fallon Park, sitting on the bench. Young guy. If I knew what would happen to, young boys then, I would never get out there, you know. But I was out there because everybody used to pick on me. you know, everything. I didn't have nobody, so I would go out there and relax and look at the interstate.

Starting point is 02:20:51 I would always love travel. I see the Interstate 7, going this way, going that way. Why would they pick on you? Because I was different, because I was smart, and because I, you know, I had no big brother, like they had big brothers and stuff like that, you know. I talk funny and everything and all that kind of thing. It changed, though. I guarantee you, it changed.

Starting point is 02:21:08 But in the meantime, that was my mom, my mother responsible that. But anyway, I was all sitting there, and I was look up at the time. the gateway arch and everything. And I would see lights going by and everything. I would see lights going by. I said, now if I see that, somebody can I see that on the interstate too. You know what I'm saying?

Starting point is 02:21:27 And everything. You know, it goes by, it comes back this way. You know, this ain't the air show. This ain't the air show they had recently. This is something else. But I didn't pay attention to it. I just thought at the time it was just something just look at. You know what I'm saying?

Starting point is 02:21:40 And this was about 9 o'clock at night. I shouldn't be out there. I shouldn't be out there at that time of night. I should be out there, but I was. Because I got tired of being picked on, you know, and everything. And I wanted to just get away for a while and be myself. Mario is part Native American, and he thinks that maybe part of some of his kind of extra sensitivity to this sort of stuff comes from his Cherokee heritage. Mayan.

Starting point is 02:22:07 Mayan. Sorry. It's myian heritage. It's okay. Do you have anything like that in your background? Well, my mama's Cherokee. Really? That's where you got it.

Starting point is 02:22:18 Whoa. She was Cherokee. I must took Mario's background as Cherokee, but your mama's Cherokee. Her mother's Cherokee. My mom was Cherokee and everything. And Mario's that is Honduras and that's the Mayan roots. Yeah. Mayan roots.

Starting point is 02:22:32 Okay. And you, but so there's actually all sorts of like, you know, intelligence people are now coming out saying that Native American traditions are a big part of, you know, like having even that sort of, you know, lineage. ancestral lineage is part of a propensity or predisposition to, like, experiencing things. But that's what gets me, though, because I've been fascinated with the Native Americans anyway. And I like going to Pine Ridge Reservation in South Dakota. I would go out there. Yeah. And that's where I would see lights all the time.

Starting point is 02:23:04 But I have to say, because it's just so dark out there. Pine Ridge, you've been to Pine Ridge, it's just awful. There's nothing out there. Or the badlands. All the bad lands. Yeah. All the bad lands. But you felt at home there.

Starting point is 02:23:15 And you would see light. Me too. You too. I wasn't scared. Oh, yeah. What about? I could go there today, leave here and go there today and go there and live. Do you ever see UFOs there?

Starting point is 02:23:27 Or do you just felt kind of at home energetically there? Other than 77, I only saw one other thing in the kilo area. And there was an object that looked like an egg that went straight to the ground. And Mark Wade was my team leader. We were going to kilo 10. And the reason we were going to kilo-10s, because they'd been snowed in, and we would have to dig out the antenna so they could reset. But we didn't do it.

Starting point is 02:23:54 You just rave the gas trying to, trying to. Do you saw an object like an egg? Did it crash into the ground? No, I saw it in the rearview mirror on the side, western mirror, as we were going away from, as we were going toward kilo-10, I saw this, I just was looking and I see this thing in the big side mirror go. come down like that and it was maybe, I don't know, three, four hundred yards behind us. And it was small and it came down and it zigzagged and it just went down and went off.

Starting point is 02:24:24 Whoa. What year was that? 78? Michael, did your mother, who was Cherokee, ever experience anything sort of paranormal, see any UFOs? Well, I don't know if she ever saw anything per se, but she was deeply religious, you know. She was religious and everything. And that's why I was getting back with you. I was a little boy out there on Interstate. You know, she didn't like that.

Starting point is 02:24:51 You know, she didn't like that. In fact, she joked with me, said, somebody's going to come down and snatch you like that. Come down and snatch you. Come down and snatch you. That's wild. It's like she knew that you were going to get taken or something. You know, because she was very protective of me and everything.

Starting point is 02:25:08 So, you know. I know how that is. Yeah. But the fact that she said come down and snatch you shows that she has. She has, like, a mental concept of the fact that that could even happen, which if you, you know, aren't familiar with any of these things, alien abductions or some of these traditions. Yeah. Now that you talk about, I never seen it like that. So you say, you come down, I just looked at, you know, everything like that. Did you ever ask her? Did, hey, mom, did anything ever happen to you?

Starting point is 02:25:33 No, but she said they were all living out there. We're not alone. She did say that we are not alone out here. Wow. And she's from Texas, East Texas, and raised there and everything. And she told me she's seen things that, you know, you wouldn't think would exist. When they exist. My mother was taking me to my first grade school, which was D. Queen Elementary. And we were about the fifth or the seventh car back in line. And I'm on the passenger side in the front seat, no seatbelt.

Starting point is 02:26:08 We didn't do that back then. My sister was in the back seat, of course, mother's driving, and she stopped short of the car in front of her. And she says, look, Anthony, look at those flying saucers. When's the last time your mother ever said something like that to you? I mean, I'm just six years old, five and a half, six years old, and I just couldn't even fathom what she said, and they were right over a church, just maybe 25 to 50 feet in the air. There were three of them. They were beautiful. when I saw those three saucers in Port Arthur, Texas that morning,

Starting point is 02:26:41 my mother was taking me to school, and my sister was sitting behind her in the car. You know, my first thoughts when I said, where are they, Mom? She said, right here, and she pointed up at them. And I go, oh, my. I said, oh, my, like that. I said, look at that.

Starting point is 02:26:57 And then my sister, she said, I'm scared, Mom. And she said, they're not here to hurt you. There's no reason to be afraid. And she said, they're not here to harm you. And my sister didn't say anything back then as the door was opening. But when I stood out and got the full gravity of what I was looking at, it was never a more right moment. They were supposed to be there.

Starting point is 02:27:23 It was like, it was like, it was almost as if more than I could describe a greater power be it God, be it angels, be it a civilization, they were like checking on us. That's the way I felt like it was right as rain. I felt no fear whatsoever at all. And they were the most beautiful craft I've ever seen in my life. They are absolutely gorgeous and exactly alike, all three of them. And they just sat there hovering. And when I felt how comfortable I was with them, that's when I turned and looked and saw,

Starting point is 02:28:09 everything out there in the playground to the people hanging out of the windows, the one building school from first grade to 12th grade, everybody's pointing their fingers in the air like that looking at them. Everybody. And it was as quiet as it could be. And when those things went, they just went. And they were, I mean, I watched them go all the way up, just like that vent right there until they were just like that and never gone.

Starting point is 02:28:33 They were in space in seconds. Do you think the UFO you saw in 61 and the beings that, both of you encountered in 77 were aware that you would reunite 50 years later. Oh, that's a great question. Wow, that's a blow my mind. I've never thought about that. That's a blow my mind question right there. That's a blow my mind question right there.

Starting point is 02:28:54 Are we kin to them? Are we related to them or something, some form, you know, because I believe back in the days of the Egyptians have some kind of secret codes and everything. the pyramids and everything. They always fascinated me. Who made that? How was formed? What aliens been here before?

Starting point is 02:29:16 I see monuments. I see questions. How did this got here in England, those stones? Who did this? You know what I'm saying? Intelligence form. I'm not sure.

Starting point is 02:29:26 But I already did read about things like that. I don't read subjects like that, though, because it fascinated me. You see certain things that been here for centuries, century before man, before Jesus, they say, was here, you know? somebody was here before Jesus. It's all throughout the Bible.

Starting point is 02:29:42 Yeah. You texted me. All of them. All of them. It's in there. You know that Mario was kind of imbued with a newfound interest in wonders of the world, but specifically the Egyptian pyramids, which he bonded with Amar about after that experience. So he was changed in a way that gave him more interest in those sorts of things. I had to find out everything about archaeology and pyramids.

Starting point is 02:30:06 Mm. And so that was just something that it almost felt like it was installed inside of you or downloaded. Yes. You know, guys made fun of me in the missile field because I'd sit at the dining room tables in day room. I'd draw a pyramid. I'd put a weird top on it and little sparks coming out of it. Now, I call that an Atlantean pyramid. Michael, you've had other strange experiences happen to you since that 1977 experience, right?

Starting point is 02:30:33 Yeah, yeah. What else has happened? Well, you know, like I said, I finally got a job driving trucks and stuff, you know, and everything. And I like the Southwest anywhere. I like the Southwest. And I was having a load. Me too. Have a load going to El Paso and everything.

Starting point is 02:30:55 And I picked up a load from El Paso going back on 20, going back to a dollar's fourth word, everything like that. And I don't know how I got cyrus. routed. I don't know how I got side-routed and everything to where I was driving. This ain't the interstate, you know what I'm saying? If not the interstate, I got off, I guess to a truck stop. I guess I took a wrong turn because I did get off at a truck stop, I must have took the wrong turn. I thought I was going to take it back to the interstate, but it kept taking me deeper and deeper further, further into where nowhere I knew where I was going. And I was driving, driving, trying to hurry up and get out of there because it was dark, deserted, dirt.

Starting point is 02:31:34 So I was just driving. And then I saw something come across me in front of me come across me. And I'm driving and looking around, I saw him come across me. I said, damn, what was there? Like a UFO? Yeah. Just came across me. And I'm just like, okay, you know, at that time, I was saying, oh, hell, I'm going to lose

Starting point is 02:31:54 my job. I was real worried about my job. And because the little going to be late going back to, uh, New York somewhere to go back to New York then next day I saw like a police car squad car

Starting point is 02:32:06 coming up behind me okay the light saw so I pulled it over everything he asked me where I was going I told him I was going back to my destination

Starting point is 02:32:16 and the truck he looked at the truck and look at me and said you know you know where you are like that I said I thought I was in Texas

Starting point is 02:32:24 you know no you're in Nevada What the hell What? And he was strange too. He was strange. He was strange looking too. He said, what you doing out here?

Starting point is 02:32:38 Where are you going? Like that to me. I said something, I did say something wrong. Yeah. You're on government property. This area is off limit to everybody, civilians, everybody. And then I remember saying,

Starting point is 02:32:55 that's why I saw the signs out there, no trespass. no trespassing, you know, and everything. How many hours had passed since he made a wrong turn in Texas? Jesus. Two. And that coincided with a UFO flying above your dashboard in the car. So it's almost like maybe a similar kind of missing time event as what happened to you in

Starting point is 02:33:18 1977 at Ellsworth. But I, yeah. That's a lot of missing. That's not a missing time there was like they wake up nine and a half miles away. This is, they wake up. four-hour flight away. And his son, his son thinks that maybe it was area 51

Starting point is 02:33:32 where he was dropped off. Wow. Mm-hmm. Yeah. That's, wow. And then, it didn't, and then the police, he escorted me to get back to the main road

Starting point is 02:33:44 and everything. And so I did, I got back on the main road and stuff like that. He told me, I keep straight, just, let's go on. You didn't support be here. He sounded like a contractor.

Starting point is 02:33:53 You know, you stop. You stop again. You know, they might, they might take you away. whatever, you know, they might take me away like that, you know. And that was it. I got back on the main road. And you said he looked funny.

Starting point is 02:34:06 Yes, he did look funny. What did he look like? He was short. He was short. Face with puffy. He had a hat on a deputy dog kind of hat, like a deputy dog kind of hat from cartoons and stuff. Did you feel like maybe he was not fully human? Yes.

Starting point is 02:34:24 Because he thought, the way he talked to me. I asked him questions. He talked to me, like, slow, you know what I'm saying? Slow, talking back to me, no, you need to go back this way. You're engaging you. Okay? And I say, well, I need some direction and everything. I will help you.

Starting point is 02:34:40 I would escort you back, you don't come back here no more. That's what he said, just like that. Don't come back here no more. On the last day of our trip, we decided to rent a beautiful house for Michael and Mario by Lake Austin and just let them reminisce and charge. it up and spend some quality time with each other. So now we got each other, and finally, it's over with now. How did it say to death through your part, yeah?

Starting point is 02:35:08 That's right. We know it now. Mm-hmm. I'm just glad they were only 230 miles apart, man. That's a trip. As the night got dark, we packed it up and went inside and decided to surprise Michael and Mario with all of the AI recreations we made of their experience from this episode.

Starting point is 02:35:28 Michael, you see that glow? Can you see that? Whatever. The worst thing that happened. The worst thing that happened to these two men wasn't their abduction. It was the human factors around it. Nothing else happened? No one else was there?

Starting point is 02:35:49 No, sir. Just me and Johnson. It was what happened afterwards. Their interrogators spent most of their time trying to explain away the experience. to make Mario and Michael the problem rather than deal with the incident head on. The demotions, the overseas deployment, the decades of downplaying and denial. Two vetted, screened, armed young men did exactly what the Air Force trained them to do. They responded, they observed, they reported.

Starting point is 02:36:16 And the system's answer was to gaslight them, split them, spit one of them out, and to file them away. To manufacture a stigma. And every veteran watching, whoever swallowed a report because the truth would cost their career, this episode is yours too. Mario never got disclosure. The government never confirmed and maybe never will the essence of his story. But that's fine.

Starting point is 02:36:41 Because one recruiter with a laptop did what multiple government agencies failed to. Found his partner. The person he'd been asking for for the last 50 years, ever since being pulled out of that Ford pickup. And with that, he and Michael have something way better than disclosure. They have closure, ordinary people, crowdsourcing their own truth, because the Sanctian version never came. Ah, I can't believe it. Now they're reconnected, they're brothers for life.

Starting point is 02:37:15 But like so many people who served, they're living paycheck to paycheck, and since they don't get paid to share their story, and they're both over 70 and still were blocking blue-collar jobs, Amar and I decided the best thing to do was to launch a GoFundMe page on their behalf. Link below. Whatever you give goes directly to Michael and Mario. This will serve as much needed money for their retirement.

Starting point is 02:37:41 And if you wore the uniform at that base or any base like it, and you've been carrying your own November night, an experience that indicates we're not alone, you just watched what 50 years of silence costs. and what breaking it gives you back. You may look. The comments are open, our emails in the description. Those hallways. That's what's...

Starting point is 02:38:14 But one question still lingers. What actually happened to Michael and Mario? Who were these beings? And what did they want with them? When you strip everything away, a signal exchange, at least five missing hours, a truck at a dam, mud in a frozen field. Burns a doctor found first.

Starting point is 02:38:36 One glove with the memory of another on a shiny floor. Drawings and recollections of a shape, size, and color of the craft. And three words. Do not fear. Surfacing in 1961 on a Texas schoolyard in 1977 in a dead truck, in two separate hypnosis sessions, and finally in a push notification. We also just have two incredible heart-centered veterans

Starting point is 02:39:02 who wouldn't give up on each other. and they're now reunited because of it. Something clearly happened at Ellsworth. But what exactly was it? Perhaps the only recurring words transmitted by the beings are a clue. Do not fear. Do not fear. Do not fear. Do not fear.

Starting point is 02:39:20 Don't fear, no fear. Let's rewind, say about 2,600 years. A man named Daniel is standing on the bank of the Tigris, when he sees a being with a face like lightning, lightning and eyes like torches. His companions flee. Daniel's strength drains out of him. He collapses face first into the dirt, and the being's first words to him are, Do not be afraid, Daniel. Fear not is the closest thing the biblical angels have to a recurring catchphrase. It's said to Zechariah in the temple, to Mary at the Annunciation, to the shepherds

Starting point is 02:40:01 outside Bethlehem, to the women at the empty tomb. It is functionally the angel, the angel Pro-Chalic Protocol, Step 1 of every close encounter of the scriptural kind. Modern people conceive of angels as friendly cherubs that you see on hallmark cards, but biblical angels are actually not that at all. They're utterly terrifying. It's never a fun encounter. It's overwhelming, blinding, and ontologically shocking. The reason the angels say do not fear is because they have to.

Starting point is 02:40:37 The experiencer is almost always drowning in fear. in fear. Ezekiel's visitors arrive as interlocking wheels covered in eyes, wrapped in fire and storm. Daniel is left trembling on his hands and knees. The witnesses don't feel warm and fuzzy. They feel annihilated. The pattern is always the same three-beat structure. Number one, overwhelming presence. The witness is paralyzed, terrified, physically undone. Number two, reassurance. Do not fear, delivered before anything else can happen. Number three, the message. The witness's life is never the same afterwards.

Starting point is 02:41:16 Now read any serious collection of high strangeness abduction reports, Michael and Mario at Ellsworth among them, and you find the identical grammar. Paralysis, terror, a communication, often telepathic, that leads with calm. Witnesses who spend the rest of their lives haunted, transformed, unable to fully return to the person they were. I was terrified the whole time.

Starting point is 02:41:39 Jacques Valet, the legendary French astrophysicist and UFO godfather that Spielberg depicted in close encounters, spent his career pointing at exactly this. His argument in his great book Passport to Magonia was heretical to both believers and debunkers. The UFO phenomenon isn't new, and it isn't necessarily extraterrestrial. It's the same phenomenon humanity has always encountered, wearing whatever mask the culture provides, To medieval Europe, angels and demons, to the Celts, the good folk, who also incidentally abducted people and distorted their sense of time. To 1977 America, a craft and beings at a missile base.

Starting point is 02:42:22 The technology of the encounter updates, the façade changes, but the structure of the encounter, terror, reassurance, message, transformation is ancient and weirdly stable. Whatever this phenomenon is, it has a clear real estate and and timing preference. These things show up at moments of peak instability, either to save things worth preserving or destroy things that have become unruly, and are now worth discarding.

Starting point is 02:42:51 The Bible's pattern of angelic deployment is exactly that. Angels in scripture are not evenly distributed. They cluster at hinge points, moments where timelines can shift drastically, where the destruction or survival of a people is on the table. Two angels walk into Sada, the night before the fire falls. An angel stands over Jerusalem with a drawn sword

Starting point is 02:43:13 during the plague of David's census. The angel of the Lord moves through the Assyrian camp the night the siege breaks. Angels are, among other things, scripture's ordinance inspectors. They show up where annihilation is pending, sometimes to deliver it, sometimes to call it off.

Starting point is 02:43:32 So where would you expect such beings to appear in the 20th century? Humanity spent most of its history unable to destroy itself. Then on July 16th, 1945, in a stretch of New Mexico desert Oppenheimer named Trinity, and sit with that name for a second, the most secular project in human history, christened after the triune god. It's director, reaching for the Bhagavad Guitas, I am become death, because no smaller language fit. Few people laughed, few people cried. Most people were silent. I remembered the line from the Hindu scripture, the Bhagavad Gita.

Starting point is 02:44:17 Now I am become death, the destroyer of worlds. I suppose we all thought that. We acquired the one capability scripture had always reserved for heaven. Fire from the skies. Cities erased in an instant. This was a truly Promethean act. If the biblical watchers were real, and if their historical beat was,

Starting point is 02:44:44 stand at the hinge points where worlds can end, Then missile fields in South Dakota, in Montana, are not a strange place to find them at all. They are the obvious place. The prophets stood at the gates of doomed cities. The phenomenon parks itself over the silos. The venue changed because the circumstances did. But underneath it, the same archetype. Ultimately, we don't know what Mario and Michael saw, and neither do they.

Starting point is 02:45:11 Visitor, watcher, archetype, alien, angel, demon, every descriptor falls short and contains a lot baggage. Jacques Valet might say this was a mythological encounter at the pressure points of human belief and power. Other great UFO researchers like the legendary Stanton Friedman would say that these beings are probably extraterrestrial. But Jacques's meta-sociological analysis, Staten Friedman's extraterrestrial overlay, and any sort of biblical comparison, is all just analysis. We are trapped by our complete inability to describe transcendent experiences. The point is there is an underlying pattern, and it's been going on for thousands of years. Something ancient, perked up, and resumed its rounds the moment we built the nukes ourselves,

Starting point is 02:46:02 and its first words to two trembling airmen in the South Dakota Prairie, were the same words spoken to a trembling prophet on the banks of the Tigris. Historically, these beings have spoken to man through complex numerology, signs, symbols, and synchronicities. A phenomenon we have experienced, experienced plenty of throughout this trip. They reconnected what on 626-26. He landed at 111. And Amar, who's coming from Yes Theory,

Starting point is 02:46:30 he is taking off at 111. Whoa, look at the 111. Look at the 111. That's wild. We're picking Michael up at 222. So in that vein, perhaps do not fear, indicated a foreknowledge of Mario and Michael's glorious reunion. Perhaps this was always part of the being's plan. This should be an inspiration to

Starting point is 02:46:55 us all so that we know all things are possible with the grace of God. We should maybe worry a bit less because perhaps we're being looked out for. May God bless Mario and Michael. I thank them so much for the courage and vulnerability it took them to share their story. I also want to thank Amar, Ivan, and the entire crew that helped out. Keep your mind, eyes, and heart open. I'm Jesse Michaels and this is American Alchemy.

American Alchemy with Jesse Michels - Air Force Veterans Abducted By Aliens Reunite After 50 Years [EMOTIONAL]

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