American Alchemy with Jesse Michels - Blue Aliens Taught a Construction Worker Advanced Physics

Episode Date: February 13, 2025

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You have this amazing blue being experience that prompts you to get into quantum physics. Because of what this being had showed me, I started looking into this notion of longitudinal scalar waves. Now, these were shown to me by this being as slinky, so to speak, that exist all around us. You can use the potentials that exist all around us right now in the quantum vacuum to surveil an entire room. How would you do that? I don't want to say because it starts to overlap into stuff that's sensitive. I know a group that is working in the government that has been working on this since the 90s. And they've had massive success.

There are things that I've seen in private laboratories that are undeniable and verified by people other than myself in those facilities. A UAP was hovering near some plants. And as an individual approach to the UAP, the UAP shot off as many people have experienced. However, when the plants that were close to the UAP were analyzed, they had aged 10 years within X amount of hours. We're dealing with multiple factions or elements of both government and private industry that have vast influence on what could or could not be revealed, and no one really knows what to do. If you reveal some, then people are going to take it and run with it, and then that's going to open up a whole other avenue of research that can be weaponized pretty easily if someone has a nefarious mindset. We have mutual friends that are privately working on some of these things where six, seven months worth of work in the lab, all of a sudden it's a weapon now. And if someone gets a hold of that weapon, it's game over.

This interview was one of the most baffling and intriguing I've ever done on this show. Today, we will talk to a former construction worker. He was down and out and just scraping by. He then developed an interest in UFOs. Then, he had an interaction with a blue alien being that, according to him, caused him to do a deep dive into quantum physics. All of this sounded pretty crazy when I first heard about it. But since meeting this next guest, I've introduced him to a Navy scientist who's worked at the highest levels of government.

Even he was extremely impressed and intrigued by this former construction worker's findings. I know all of this sounds insane, but it's true. Our next guest was also spotted by the legendary Hal Putoff and Eric Davis, who have also noted his impressive knowledge in areas of unorthodox science. Dr. Davis, thank you so very much for being here today. Oh, thank you for inviting me. I'm happy to be here. A lot of this guest's interests in physics are in a special branch of it called Extended Electrodynamics. We recorded this interview in early December of 24, and at the time of its recording, extended electrodynamics was considered quackery, something you might hear at a zero point energy

conference somewhere in the southwest from a crystal healer. But right after we recorded this podcast, the National Science Foundation and NASA co-sponsored a podcast with some elite scientists and engineers with serious credentials claiming to investigate, you guessed it, extended electrodynamics. I've also heard from multiple other Navy whistleblowers that this framework is very, very real and useful. When you introduce the scalar field, you now have the possibility at least three of completely new kinds of waves. Okay, so a construction worker with no formal schooling downloads exotic physics from a blue alien being, and that physics is now being vindicated at the highest levels of government in aerospace. Sounds about right for 2025. But this former

construction worker hasn't only agreed to come on my show. He's agreed to speak with any scientist at any level about his theories on my show as a follow-up. I thought that was a pretty decent show of confidence. So without further ado, please enjoy this special sit-down with this week's American Alchemist, the scientific savant himself, David Rossi. I'm here with Dave Rossi, and I couldn't be more excited to have this conversation because we've had a lot of offline conversations over the last couple of years or year or so. And I'm always wildly impressed at your knowledge of physics, experimentally and theoretically. And you kind of came out of the blue and had like this extremely interesting origin story

when it came to how you acquired such esoteric knowledge of physics. And so it's an honor to have you here, man. Well, thank you so much for having me. I really appreciate it. It's an honor to be here. Like you said, we've spoken for quite a while over the years, and I'm very excited to be on the show. I really appreciate it.

Oh, absolutely, man. No, the honor is mine, and you have a really great podcast. Everybody should check out as well. It's called Generation Zed. And so we're going to go to the limits of my knowledge and ability to understand this stuff. But if we ever exceed that, you can just go watch Zed's channel, and it's great. Thank you.

I appreciate it. Yeah, man, of course. I know you to be somebody extremely knowledgeable, not only about UFOs from like an investigative lens, which a lot of journalists out there know a lot about like UFOs and the history of the government vis-a-vis UFOs. Right. You know about it from a scientific perspective. And I think a lot of what you get into is actually just man-made, prosaic, human, exotic technology that sort of mimics UFOs. Maybe it's inspired by UFOs.

I don't know. Right. But yeah. If I can give a little background as to how I got into this, basically. So it was around the time that COVID had hit and I decided to start a small podcast. And I didn't think at the time, you know, about four years ago that I would be where I am currently. And so what happened essentially was I decided to start looking into the UFO topic in general, UAPs and all that.

But then after a couple years of doing the show, I started to say to myself, well, I'm very interested in learning about it and making videos on it. And I was gracious enough to have a small audience that supported me. But I said to myself, well, what if I can actually try and build something? And so I tried to first dive into the theory of things like, you know, Maxwell's equations and so on and so forth. And throughout that process, I recall a very spiritual experience. I'm going to sleep one evening. And it felt like I don't want to use the word abducted because I think that implies that there was some negative connotation to the experience, which in this case for me, graciously there wasn't. But I remember essentially being, I guess you could say, taken by a blue energy type humanoid, if you will.

There were no characteristic, physical characteristics. It was just pure blue energy. And I really couldn't tell. Why do you say humanoid when you say? Well, because it had been two arms, two legs. It was just significantly taller than you or I, for example, heightwise. And so. And when you say no physical characteristics, it was like you could move right through it with your hand or something.

Essentially, yes. Like a plasma being or something. Basically very, very not really dense whatsoever. Sort of like, right, a plasma, electric plasma type being. And I recall, again, I can't say for certain because I don't know if it was a physical experience or a purely energetic or spiritual one. Sure. But I recall opening my eyes and I saw all this basically white light around me.

But it seemed like it was a very convex type structure. And then I recall seeing, I felt like. I felt like I was very drowsy, and I recalled seeing this blue being basically standing very close to my head. And then next thing I knew, I basically closed my eyes. And I woke up the next morning, and I had all of a sudden this extreme drive and inclination to study electrical engineering and quantum physics in particular. And I knew absolutely nothing about it.

I failed math, I think, almost every year of high school. And so I spent the first two years from there, basically. learning, learning, learning. I had made some videos where I had discussed these type of concepts on my channel. Without getting into specifics name-wise, I was noticed by a handful of a very nice gentleman that seemingly saw some potential to what I was saying from a physics and engineering perspective, gave some presentations to those individuals. And since then, continue to learn, learn many, many cups of coffees later, many late nights spent just reading papers, you know, the Soviet papers, the older North American papers, which is, I think, in terms

of zero point energy tech, a lot of stuff is in the older literature, more so than the modern literature. And then from there, I built a handful of different devices that had some interesting effects that seem to substantiate what a lot of the theory that people like Dr. Poodoff, Dr. Davis and others have discussed. However, I must say that there were people going all the way back to the early 1900s, going back to, you know, Nikola Tesla, people, for example, like Gabriel Crone, E.T. Whitaker and so on. That seemed to substantiate certain experiments that I was doing with a partner of mine using things like, for example, rings, superconductors,

and, you know, looking into the notion of magnetism and so on. And then from there, I continue to network and meet more people both in the defense industry, as well as in the private sector. And there seemed to be more and more validity to what I was looking into. And I don't claim I was the first one to discover this by any stretch. What were you before you had your experience? You had a podcast where you're covering UFOs. Is that right?

Correct, correct. And so you were already somewhat interested in kind of out there. subjects, but nothing from a scientific perspective. Nothing. Since I was young, I always had an interest in, you know, the paranormal and things like that. But, right, nothing from the scientific aspect. Before the podcast, I was in construction. It was, it was pretty straightforward. There was no, I don't have any formal degrees. So what inspired you to start a UFO podcast as a construction worker? Well, what happened was COVID had hit. And this was during the time when people had, you know, two, three months off where they

were staying home. And I said to myself, I looked around at the time at the time. the UFO podcasting field from what I could find at least. And I could, with all due respect to the shows out there, I couldn't find a show that seemed to be very unbiased and neutral and just looked at evidence rather than implementing a certain biased perspective. And I thought maybe I could contribute to the field by just taking, applying an open mind to it. Now granted, with that said, that has significantly changed because of fantastic shows like yourself and some others. But at the time, that's what I was doing. And so there came a point where I just kind of got bored and I said, I want to try and make something and see what I could do dealing with electromagnetism in particular

what that could potentially lead to. And how far into doing the podcast do you have this amazing blue being experience that prompts you to get into quantum physics? Probably about just over a year in, maybe a year and a half. So going to 2021 now, give or take. Is there anything that happened before that experience or just seemed like? like out of out of the blue and no pun intended literally no pun intended out of the blue entirely wow nothing nothing preliminary that was before that that's amazing okay so you're prompted to look into both electrical engineering and kind of some more experimental stuff but also some of the theory right behind some of these more exotic right you know lineages in science if you will right

and um you say you get noticed um can you say anything more about that and no worries if you can Certain individuals that you've interviewed on your show noticed me and asked me to present a couple of times over. And they were very interested in what I had to say. And that told me, well, if I'm onto something, I clearly must be on to something semi-feasible at least. Because if not, why would there be this show of interest? And then from there, essentially, I began networking more and more, meeting with different groups of people in the private military contractor field, meeting with people inside the defense department. And officially, there was no way that they could support me.

But privately, they were encouraging me significantly to continue pursuing what I was doing. And so at this point in time now, what I essentially do is I consult for private groups as well as for, in some cases, other, we'll just say private groups for different aspects of physics. And I don't claim to know a lot by any means compared to certain individuals out there. there with regards to zero point energy. But I think in a certain capacity, I could, I could probably hold my own. And so that's led me to where I am now. And I'm very, very fortunate and very grateful. So, well, I'll just say the reason we're even doing this is because I don't feel super equipped. I mean, we had an initial conversation. A lot of what you said resonated on some instinctive level with me. Right. And so I was like, okay, this guy seems, you know, pretty legit. Like, this seems

awesome like what he what he's into seems directionally exactly aligned with a lot of intuitions i've had or even stuff i've discovered just from a historical perspective when it comes to towns and brown or high energy physics or certain anomalies with consciousness or whatever you were kind of saying a lot of this stuff but taking it a little deeper as far as the math and theory of it but really what convinced me is i don't know if you remember this but i was like okay i appreciate you know meeting you said this is amazing but like you're a construction worker Four years ago and you just got prompted by a blue being to get into this. I will say that this will be controversial.

However, I know that you're not afraid of any of that. I started looking into because of what this being had showed me during that one evening experience in a visual sense, I started looking into this notion of what people call longitudinal waves or longitudinal scalar waves. Now, I know there's a lot of misinformation and disinformation out there about it. I know that we have mutual friends that are currently conducting experiments looking into basically proving its feasibility and what it could lead to and so on. And just for the audience, so this is this idea of, you know, sometimes it's called scalar physics. Other times it's called extended electrodynamics. It's the idea that classical electrodynamics as we currently hold it, which only allows for the, you know, your typical transverse herzian electromagnetic wave, which attenuates over spacetime electrons pair off.

that sort of thing. Right. You actually have this other thing called the scalar field. Right. Which allows for all sorts of exotic wave types where in the transverse herzian wave, you have, you know, electric field, a magnetic field, and wave propagation, and all three are perpendicular to one another. Right.

And in this case, you could have, you know, a magnetic field and, you know, wave propagation, they're parallel. And so it could, you know, all the, you know, attenuation over normal distances and space time, that sort of thing might get kind of negated by these exotic wave types. Correct. And so to your point, very well said, by the way, these longitudinal waves were shown to me by this being basically as slinky, so to speak, that exists all around us. But because of the way that quantum theory explains it, or would explain it if there was any official way to, that would be allowed through the system to explain it, they exist all around us in what we call, I guess you could say the quantum vacuum or what was once called the, a luminiferous ether many years ago, I think over 100 years ago.

They exist all around us, but they also don't simultaneously. So you need to, in other words, curve space time itself in order to tap these type of waves. So you use the traditional herzian transverse waves that we're used to and accustomed to, but you apply certain conditions in an engineering sense to them in which will allow space time to curve. Now, how do you do that? This is where it's interesting. and I will get into that. So essentially, if I may start with a very basic foundation here,

everything that is taught to my understanding within particle physics, electrical engineering on a basic level, have to do with what are called U1 models that essentially assume a flat space time. So in other words, in the condition of a flat space time, you cannot get these effects. And if you begin to curve space time itself, which I'll explain practically,

you can start to see this certain type of phenomenology that you otherwise would not see. So what do I mean by that? For example, the Aronov-Bome effect shows essentially that potentials themselves, more formally called the four-vector potentials, are actually more fundamental than physical fields. And I don't think a lot,

I know there's a lot of people privately that grasp it even better than I do, but I think publicly there are a lot of people that truly don't see that because it maybe seems too esoteric or too magical or what have you. But the idea here is that essentially the electromagnetic vector potential can allow for the, essentially, the curving of space time in a topological sense.

So in the laboratory, you energetically start to get these caduceus-like waves that occur longitudinally that don't, that are initially start off in a transverse sense. Now, in a very simple regard, one way that space time itself could be curved would be having to do with spinning, for example, a capacitor, if you will, because what you're doing from a mechanical perspective is you're inducing curvature within that local vicinity of space time. Now, I'm paraphrasing here, and forgive me for those that are watching this later on

where if you look up the actual quote, I may be a little bit wrong here, but Feynman said something peculiar, which is that when you are charging a capacitor, you start to see the sparks come in on the edges of the gap of the actual capacitor instead of where you're charging it from, which implies that there's some type of kinetic,

momentum, if you will, within the quantum vacuum or the ether, that is right in front of us that we don't have, take a certain perspective in order to be able to see it for what it could be or what it could lead to. So, for example, people look at the Aronov-Bome effect and they think, well, what does this mean? Well, it's possible that by implementing a vector and scalar potentials electromagnetically, you can start to induce curved space-time phenomenologies topologically that otherwise you could not do with a flat space-time metric. So, if I may say from a chemistry perspective, say you have an acid and a hydroxide

and you neutralize the two in the laboratory. This episode is brought to you by Netflix's remarkably bright creatures. What if a Pacific octopus held the key to a mystery that could heal your heart? Well, that's Tova's reality. An elderly widow working at an aquarium. Tova forms an unlikely friendship with the crumudgeonly, Marcellus, whose remarkable intelligence leads her to a life-changing discovery. Watch remarkably bright creatures with your remarkable moms this Mother's Day weekend,

only on Netflix May 8th. But what happens is you don't get any exothermic reaction. In other words, you don't get any heat. The standard U1 model that assumes a flat space time says you will always get heat. There's nothing wrong with that standard model under the assumption that space time is always flat. But if space time is curved, it's possible that you may start. start to deal with negative entropy or negentropy rather than entropy or linear forward moving entropy as we now know it to be so what that means is we

start getting these waves and phenomena that would otherwise not be realizable because when you curve space time you start to induce a a caduceous like effect what's caduceus meaning essentially like uh two waves like the uh the serpent the medical symbol the serpent moving around the uh staff Yeah. So the actual serpent itself would be representative of the waves or the same way if you think of our DNA double helix, so to speak. And so what happens is that when you're in the, when you see these effects with this acid

and hydroxide, it's possible that there may be a negative energy aspect that is occurring, which means that you may have electrical effects in that experiment where the electricity is cold instead of hot. And this start, this also overlaps directly to the field with low energy, new. nuclear reactions, cold fusion. And so it gets very interesting because you start to realize that there are these vortex-like geometries in the laboratory, whether it's with chemistry, whether it's with electrical engineering or so on, or particle physics, that otherwise you would not get if you assumed a flat space time. So what happens is if somebody says, a scientist

may come in and say, oh, that's just sulfuric acid. I would beg to differ. It would be sulfuric acid, if you unkinked the spacetime topology that the curvature of space time itself allowed you to induce. Now, if you uncinked it, if you think of basically just two, you know, chains locking into each other, if you uncinked those chains or those fields, if you will, now you're back to a flat space time. But if you're dealing with curving space time, you start to get these phenomena that otherwise you would not expect, and to my knowledge at least, are not taught within certain schools and institutions. And so ideally what we're-

So as far as producing these effects, are you saying that spacetime itself is actually curved, or are you saying that you can use high electromagnetism to curve space-time? Space time, it wants to be curved. So in other words, you have to mechanically or artificially induce curvature in it. And you do that through electromagnetism? I was talking to, you know, a scientist named Bob McGuire. Do you know him?

I've heard of him. And, you know, he was talking about the stress energy tensor in Einstein's equations. Right. And, you know, how sort of conventionally in, you know, physics, if you have enough electromagnetism, you should be able to curve space time. But we really just know that that occurs through mass because you have, like, you know, planetary cosmology where there's sort of this inward gravitational force. Right. But it doesn't really feel like from an engineering perspective, we have the ability to create, you know, the enormous amount of electromagnetism in order to curve space time. What do you think?

It's a great question. I appreciate it. So I would say that we actually can and we have privately as humans without even needing to look at any type of reverse engineered programs. Although I'm sure, you know, if one is working on a project and they're given access to reverse engineered legacy programs, they'd be able to, you know, cross-reference and make vast advancements. Let's talk about a guilt-free alternative to alcohol that's perfect for your dry January or any time you want to unwind. Cornbread's organic CBD gummies. These gummies are an absolute lifesaver for my evening routine. They're a natural way to relax, celebrate, or wind down without the hangover. I've cut back a lot on my alcohol consumption over the last few years.

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Cancel your unwanted subscriptions and reach your financial goals faster with RocketMoney. Go to rocketmoney.com slash jesse today. That's rocketmoney.com slash jesse. With that said, I believe that if you look at the work of Salvatore Pius... So real quick, when you say, So you think that we do have UFOs in our possession, and we've like, that's inspired a lot of modern science. I'm certain that we, that there have been discoveries going back to the 50s that humans have conducted from an experimental standpoint that have at the very least given, provided a proof of concept that show that we can induce these effects without the. And so do you not believe like, you know, whistleblowers like David Grush, Lou Alizondo, who say that we have like reverse engineering efforts within the government? I also believe that as well. I believe that as well.

I believe we're dealing with a mixed bag, so to speak. Yeah, I don't take one avenue. I'm not narrow-minded with regards to what I believe versus don't believe. I think we're dealing with a mixed bag here. And so you're getting into Sal Pa'is. Sal Paeis for the audience is a Navy engineer who holds patents three extremely interesting patents involving inertial mass reduction and, you know, exotic flight principles and that sort of thing. Yes, yes. And I just interviewed him, actually.

Oh, that's amazing. That's awesome. That's awesome. He's a great guy. He's a really good guy. Awesome guy. I like him a lot. I like him a lot. Sensitive soul. Oh, he's a very, very sweet guy. Very sweet guy. I think that to your question that we as humans have made advancements with regards to things like inertial mass reduction, with regards to things like the emission of high frequency gravitational waves. And if I could say very quickly for the audience, inertial mass reduction means you're basically reducing the mass of an object. So, it begins to essentially fall up instead of the way that you would drop an object. It begins to essentially fall upwards because you're biasing the potentials of the mass of that object itself.

And this is something that's been reported by you gain Placletinov and it's also, and that goes back to Victor Schauberger because his dad was actually a Soviet agent that retrieved Victor Schauberger's files. Yes. And, but that also connects with this modern anti-gravity conspiracy. you have this woman named Ning Lee who's at, you know, University of Alabama Huntsville. Yep. And she claims to have a mass reduction effect over a spinning superconductor.

And so do you basically believe both of those accounts? I think there may be something there with Pod Kletanov. Forgive me, I have to be careful with regards to what I say about Ning Li, but what I can say about that is that there is evidence of which I'd be happy to provide to afterwards where in the early 2000, she had sent an email. to, I forgot who it was exactly, someone in the alternative propulsion community where she claimed she had generated about 11 kilowatts of high frequency gravitational waves. Whoa.

The email messaging was then intercepted by an IP address from West Point, and then from there, you never heard from her again. Well, from there, she wins this, you know, top secret military contract. Correct. Correct. And, yeah, she kind of falls off the face of the earth. She leaves the University of Alabama Huntsville. Yep.

You could just say, oh, her work fell off. She was a quack or whatever. But then we found out since that Larry Smalley, who was the head of the physics department at University of Alabama Huntsville, goes and joins her. And Larry Smalley, his name is on a patent in 2004 that basically involves an asymmetric barrel-shaped capacitor. And it's for NASA. Right.

And it connects all the way back to Townsend Brown's work. And that was like the original kind of anti-gravity guy who was using capacitors. to maybe manipulate space top. Exactly. I believe, if I'm not mistaken, Ning Lee was actually more focused on superconductors in a solid state sense. I know initially in the 90,

she was collecting data on ring superconductors, but I believe the issue with spinning it after a certain threshold was that the discs, the rings would begin to break. So I know she was looking into a more solid state aspect. However, there is a paper that was released by Bob Baker under the Miter Corporation

for one of the high-frequency gravitational wave conferences where you cannot actually access the entire paper, just the abstract introduction, where I'm paraphrasing, but Bob Baker talks about, he's now since deceased, but he talked about how Ning Lee was able to generate up to 11 kilowatts of gravitational waves, and essentially there were two types of gravity that she had discovered, which was AC gravity and DC gravity. So a static type of gravity and then an alternating current type of gravity under the notion that gravity comes from the topological displacement of matter topologies, meaning essentially you can use electromagnetism in a certain format

in which would then at the next level above, through the curving of space time, allow you to control gravity electromagnetically. Whoa, wait, explain that. And it's interesting you say two types of gravity, because that comes up a lot. Well, you can also correlate that to, and this is for your viewers and yourself to decide for yourself

to Mr. Lazare's gravity. A wave and B wave. That's what I was going to bring up. You have AC gravity, D.C. gravity. It's possible. Well, my take on Lazare is he was kind of a, you know, as Bob Lazars, I mean, the audience is definitely going to know who he is, but like he claimed to have worked at S4 Area 51, reverse engineering UFOs.

Right. And he also came out saying some interesting things about the flight principles that these, you know, crafts used. Right. And he talks about two forms of gravity, gravity A and gravity B. Right. And I kind of have come to the. conclusion after researching Lazar for a while that he was a limited hangout of a person.

Right. So like I think this guy John Lear, who was CIA affiliated, pushed him out to George Knapp, and for whatever reason the powers that be wanted Lazar out. Right. But they wanted him out because I don't think he had a super sophisticated theoretical physics understanding. I think he had like more of like an engineering topological physics. I agree.

And so you have these, you know, it's almost like gravity, gravity A, gravity B. that's not saying too much. Right. But if you're smart enough, maybe you can get initiated or something. Figure that out. Right. And that's why I say, again,

I myself am still 50-50 as to where I stand with the entire story of Mr. Lazar. But I do think that there are interesting correlations between what he claimed was the A and B wave and then Ning Lee's AC and D.C. gravity waves. So what are these two forms of gravity? How do they work? So basically you have DC gravity

that allegedly, at least according to the very general abstract of her report and forgive me because I can't really expand past this point. However, the idea is that there's a static type of gravitational wave that does not depend on the square root of the electric permittivity, but rather depends on the strength of the source of the magnetostatic field in which it's coming from. And then there's AC gravity, which is far stronger and is not static in any capacity. It is something that you would utilize in a pulsed base scenario in which would actually, if you were to view its geometry would emit the same way that are in the same geometry that are that a caduceus or double helix would.

Interesting. And then what? Gravitons. Gravitons, correct. So gravity particles. Right. Now, I say that because I think the term gravitons is still controversial in mainstream science. However, there are papers that have since, that were funded by the MITA Corporation going

back 20, 25 years that show that gravitons were both very high frequency and extremely low-frequency gravitons were detectable near the Earth's atmosphere. Now, why that hasn't been more publicly stated, I don't know. Interesting. I'd be happy to provide you the documents privately. I also know that the Soviets, before the Soviet Union fell, were looking into essentially the notion that Einstein's general relativity was a very rudimentary static understanding of space time itself.

I know Einstein himself flip-flopped on the notion of the quantum vacuum or the ether. Yeah. First, I think he was for it, then he was against it, then for it, then against it. And I'm not sure, you know, there's rumors that he worked with Nikola Tesla before he passed as to whether that could be substantiated or not. I don't know I wasn't around at the time. Well, he definitely, I think early on with special relativity, you know, he was like, relativity is not compatible with the ether.

And then I think in 1921-ish time frame, he then says, actually, general relativity is compatible with the ether. Right. But it was sort of silent and people forgot about it. Correct. And then you have quantum electrodynamics and Feynman later. and like the, you know, the vacuum of space is filled with energy. Right.

So he's kind of like reinstantiating the ether sort of. I think so. I think so. But I want to get back to Gravitons because there's a really interesting article from 1956 called The G Engines Are Coming or something like that by this guy, Michael Gladditch. Yes. You know, it's all about how we have all these vital anti-gravity programs. Those anti-gravity programs are kind of analogous to our atomic programs.

Right. And we're going to beat gravity and it's right around the bend. And in it is quoted, I believe two scientists at Princeton, Stanley Desser and Richard Arnawitt. Okay. And it says, these guys are working with, we figured out G particles, gravity particles. Right. And I find that to be such an interesting part of the article that like nobody really talks about is like these guys are talking about gravity particles. Right.

Exactly. All these publications and whether it was in the literature or newspapers going back to the 1950s all the way to the 70s, I've always said, as I've said to privately, once the late 1970s hit, there are some papers still that came out in the 80s dealing with spinning gyroscopes with certain electrical and other components applied to them where the spinning gyroscope would lose some of its mass. And then when the gyroscopes was turned towards the Earth's axis or against the Earth's axis, depending which way you pointed it, it would gain some of the mass back. So in other words, it was conducted in magnetically shielded laboratories. It was shown, for example, that certain effects would occur that were not artifacts experimentally. That could not be ruled out. Wow.

Yeah. So how does doing all this stuff – how does doing these experiments allow for mass reduction? The idea is that you can exchange – now this is where it becomes very esoteric, but the idea is that you can exchange the internal mass of an object. with the local environment or the local spacetime itself. So the notion that energy cannot be created or destroyed would be correct. You're just basically cycling that energy in and out from the object because of spin coupled to an electromagnetic induction field combined with something else that I'll tell you off the air that would allegedly prove this to or show at least proof of concept that there would be mass reduction. And this is the work of Salvatore Pais where he's saying that like if you couple spin with.

these specific electromagnetic charges, you can break the swinger limit. You get this runaway. Right. Now, the idea is with regard, the, the, the, the, the swinger limit is essentially, very simply put, the notion that after a certain threshold of a electromagnetically, the vacuum becomes nonlinear. Yes. So to speak. I think it was, I forgot what it was, 10 to the power of eight. I don't want to say. And how putoff talks about electrically polarizable vacuums as well. So it's like, I'm a big proponent. into that. And then you have this speech from Jim Ryder, who's a Lockheed Martin Space Systems guy who we now know tried to transfer a quote-unquote UFO to Bigelow Aerospace in 2008, according to Lou Alizano, a bunch of other people.

Right. And he talks about an electrically polarizable vacuum as well, and maybe an interesting analogy for the audience, if you're like me and an idiot when it comes to this stuff. Like if you had like a plastic bag with water in it and you were to like press down on one side, that would be sort of electrically polarizing the vacuum and maybe you could surf space time as a result. The same way a surfer surfs on water. Yeah. The waterways, correct. If we say there's a little surfer figurine on the bag or whatever it surfs down. Exactly.

Exactly. And now that would be using vacuum polarization as Dr. Poodoff, I believe has a fantastic paper on spacetime metric engineering. Excuse me. That shows that. Yeah. Now, if I could clarify, as I understand it, that is a little bit different than actually having a device that would emit. through pulsed-based systems, high-frequency gravitational waves.

However, the physics are indeed interconnected, very much so. And how do you get to a thing that emits high-frequency gravitational waves? Well, there's speculation that very intense lasers could do it in what's considered like a hull-room array. There's speculation that you can use, this is very controversial, but you can use superconductors to do it. There are speculation, for example, that you could use certain geometrical setup of superconductors that could induce these effects. Let's put it that way. Yeah. Interesting.

Yeah. So what useful stuff can you do it? Because we're speaking really abstractly right now. Sure. Sure. What can you do that changes the world with any of these things? You can essentially, this is, forgive me, because this is where I'm going to have to be careful, but you can essentially do things, for example, from an energy perspective where maybe, and I say this

speculatively, it's possible that you can output more energy in a device than you're inputting. Okay. Which would imply coefficient of performance over one, which would violate the second law of thermodynamics, and there would need to be a readjustment to the law of conservation of energy because you're dealing with a larger open system. So if you implement the vacuum and the vector and scalar potentials into your equations, it would actually be feasible. Second law of thermodynamics, it would be completely violated because, again, it's possible in these cases we would be dealing in some cases with electrical currents that are cold instead of hot, which is very controversial to say. That would be one aspect.

Another aspect would be, for example, the ability, for example, as we see with Dr. Hal Pudov's invention, whereas, he has, he's using vector and scalar potentials to communicate. That would be an extreme, that is an extreme, uh, breakthrough in revolution. Um, another example would be the work of Sal Pius, for example, in which you see that you could have craft that could basically be a, um, a transmedium type of craft that could go through water, air, etc. without, as if the water air didn't exist because the field around the craft itself is voiding the, the reality of space time itself, as controversial as that is. So free energy, building real UFOs, basically.

Right, exotic propulsion to the limit. Right. And then exotic communications as well. Correct. That traverses space time. And even healing medical aspects that are, again, for example, sorry to cut you off, but Luke Montagnier, his DNA water teleportation paper. Do you believe that?

Because I've always found that, so this is, by the way, French Nobel Prize winner who discovered the genome for HIV. Right. And so he was lauded for that. After that in his career, he started getting this really interesting, trippy ideas, one of which was that there are these aquaous nanostructures in DNA that involve semantic communication, transfer, and storage, basically of information. Right. And he was kind of laughed out of the room from a conventional science perspective, but you think there's something to it? I strongly, I would, I'm not a gambler, but I would bet money. There's something there.

You know, I've always been sympathetic. to it. Why do you think there's money there and then I can tell you why I'm interested in? Um, uh, lab experiments I've witnessed. Interesting. Yeah. Can you say anything more? Um, unfortunately no one, forgive me because I don't mean to be like I, I don't need to be overly vague. Well, I can speak for you. Have you ever heard of Constantine Mile? I have. Okay. So he's in the black forest in Germany. And he deals with extended electrodynamics, but from a kind of biological systems perspective. Right. Right. Right. And he, he's, and he, he's in the black foresters in Germany. And he, he deals with extended electrodynamics, but from a kind of biological systems perspective. Right, right. And he writes about DNA resonance with, you know, specific

longitudinal way, scalar longitudinal waves. Actually, one of the scalar waves is called heliacoidal. Right. And so you might think, you know, if form follows function, or function follows form, that, you know, if you have these wave types that basically look like DNA, maybe they're meant for DNA to be the receivers. Right. So there's also another guy named Andre Pujerich, who was very interested and extended electrodynamics or extremely low frequencies and how they would affect kind of brain waves and even semantic information. Right.

And if I could say, I would dare to argue that all of what we've been discussing from the propulsion aspect to all the way to the communications, to the biological, to the energy aspect, all deal with these longitudinal waves in some capacity or another. There is a harmonic component.

There's a sound component that has been completely removed from the teachings of electrical engineering that in some aspects do exist in some institutions regarding particle physics, but it essentially deals with an asymmetry within space time itself that you could induce through, for example, things like superconducting resonance circuits, or tank circuits, as they're called. And certain avenues going down that road, I do, forgive me, I do have to be careful. But yes, there may be some. resonance may be a significant aspect to all of this.

What is an aspect of this technology that we can speak about that you think will help the most amount of people and be the least dangerous as far as describing the actual nuts and bolts components of how it works? Because I'd love to get into how some of these things work close to the metal, but I realize they're national security sensitivities. And you haven't told me anything, but what I picked up from, you know, you came across certain people entered your life or you came on their radar or whatever is that when maybe you got these interesting downloads around science, you were maybe tapped by people who are

kind of in and around government circles. Right. Be my guess. But that is correct. Yes. Something, well, what's interesting is that I think without bringing it up too often, I think that Sal Paez's patents and his work have been by far the most revealing aspect of what propulsion could be applied to with regards to.

essentially, again, reducing the mass of an object and so on. But I also think that, see, this is the, this is where I'll be very blunt. I believe that this talk of metamaterials, it's not that metamaterials are bad or are, don't work or are a sci-op, not at all. I think that they have a very fundamental place in, in the field of physics and materials engineering, absolutely. However, I think that there has been, and this is. not towards any one individual in particular, but there has been a narrative pushed with respect to

not discussing that you can use basic materials that we already have and have known about for decades combined with electromagnetism to induce some of these effects, whether it's energy, communication, propulsion. I think it's because some of these solutions, again, taken with a different perspective on old physics, in some cases could be so simple to engineer. In some cases, if one had access to you know, a decent amount of funding, that it is threatening to people that are looking to suppress this. So you think the alien narrative is sometimes tech protection. I believe there is a legitimate aspect to it, but I think in some cases, yes. So, yeah, I hear that.

And then it's just extremely confusing. Every time I'm like, maybe it's just anti-gravity shit, I'm like, I'll give you a good example. Okay. So, like, Townsend Brown is this mid-century anti-gravity guy. I think he got like really far, you know, made a documentary about him. Right. And which was great. Oh, thank you, man.

And he, you know, talks about a couple of materials. So magnesium bismuth, berymium titanate. Right. They're what's called high K-dialectrics. So we have a high K factor. You can store a lot of electromagnetic charge. Right. His experiment, which involves a capacitor, so negatively charged plate, positively charged plate.

You have to put this neutral insulator in between. Right. And that has a high K factor, you get. more thrust. So you pump electromagnetism into the whole thing, and you get this thrust from negative to positive. Right. And so, you know, that is in a way that beats gravity. So it's this exciting thing. So he talks about magnesium bismuth barium titanium titanate. And then you go, I've interviewed Gary Nolan, too, Stanford professor. And he, you know, claims that he has UFO crash parts that he received from Jacques Valet. And it's magnesium bismet. Right. And so I'm like, well,

maybe it's just anti-gravity or whatever. But then you go deeper into Townsend Brown, you realize that He started Nycap, which is the first civilian UFO tracking program in 1956. You could say that was just, you know, doing civilian counterintel for, you know, like American anti-gravity crafts. But you learn about these early stories from like, you know, around the time that like DARPA formed, like the late 50s, early 60s, where he would go into the field and find stuff, flash his credentials, do crash retrievals, basically. And like, he found this green fireball thing and it was losing mass. and apparently that was barium titanate. And then he himself had a UFO experience that inspired a lot of his work,

kind of like you're there. Interesting. So the whole thing gets weird, where the second you're like, maybe it's just anti-gravity stuff, you trip out and you're like, I don't know. I think. Yeah, it starts to get very, very, to your point,

it starts to get very, very interesting because I think that at this point in time, I think when we, if there's a sighting of a UAP, I think that most of the time, it's hard to tell if that is, human made, whether pure human, the source of pure human ingenuity, or whether it's a, you know, a little bit of that mixed with reverse engineering aspects or if it's something or someone else entirely. What I will say, though, is I think we need to look into high voltage experiments that normally that Tesla was was playing with that people these days seem to not be interested in. I think that. Why high voltage? I think high voltage induces a polarizable effect within the local vacuum, wherever that voltage. is being applied. For example, there was something called the Ebner Effect, I believe in the 1990s. I can send you the details to this afterwards. Dealing with essentially, there was a

small documentary put together, I forgot from which country in Europe, but essentially when extremely high voltage, it was like half a million volts or more, were applied to crops, they were growing in ways that the farmers had not seen ever. And so I think this is where it starts to get, again, very esoteric, but the notion is that the ether or the quantum value, has within it memory that are stored within these potentials. And these potentials, when practically induced using high voltage, could in fact enable a form of vacuum polarization that can apply to biological systems, propulsive systems, communication systems, and so on and so forth in a way that we would not be able to detect or understand

with our current means of technological development. This is pretty freaky. It feels like playing God a little bit because you're talking about how matters. even comes to form or something in the first place. Right. And like, it's interesting you say that about high voltages, you know, half a million volts or whatever applied to plants. You know, Townsend Brown was extremely interested in electroculture as well.

Right. I lived on Hawaii and would do all these experiments around, you know, having plants grow in specific ways with electroculture. Yes. And I look at the work of Townsendell Brown and Tesla, and they're very similar. Like what Tesla was doing at Wardencliffe, high voltages, short distances. where he's claiming to tap the ether for free energy seems to be somewhat similar

to what Townsend Brown is doing. I agree, and I think one of the things as we discussed earlier before we started recording is that I think one of the concerns for groups or elements that don't want this to be discussed or come out is that or be disclosed in any capacity is that once you open this can of worms, it opens up a whole other set of discoveries

that people would otherwise not know, that people would generally not notice unless they knew that there's a form of, asymmetry in the vacuum using potentials that could be induced to create what is called higher symmetry electromagnetics using a vector and scalar potentials. And so I think that what starts happening is you start dealing with things like, again, negative energy, so cold electricity, so cold currents, for example. So you get frostbite if you were to touch a wire with it with cold currents rather than,

you know, as normally now you get burned if you touch a wire that's got electrical currents. Would that allow? Because I think about extremely cold, you know, circuits or materials. Right. And you hear this theory that maybe, you know, UFOs or man-made, you know, crafts or whatever that exhibit these exotic flight principles might be sort of acting like quantum macroscopic objects. I agree. As you know, I'm always on the hunt for things that help me stay sharp, focused, and full of energy while I'm diving into life's mysteries and making this show happen. And I've got to say mudwater has completely. transformed my mornings. Back in the day, I used to struggle with that post-coffee crash,

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Nealz-Bore believed that superconductors were macroscopic atoms. You told me that once, and I blew my mind. What does that mean? So it's possible that superconductors could exhibit very quantific. Coherence, quantum coherence that otherwise would normally be observed at the plank scale are slightly above. I think there's an entire aspect to superconductors, including things like the Meisner effect and flux pinning, that a lot of people just don't understand that is right in their faces, that if they truly viewed it in a different way, could induce the type of effects that we're discussing, whether it's, again, you know, the energy stuff, the communication stuff, the propulsion stuff, and so on and so forth.

And what I mean by that is when it comes to superconductors, the traditional theory that's references, the Barden Cooper Schaefer theory called BCS theory. I believe all three of these gentlemen won a Nobel Prize for it. What that has left out as to whether this was conspiratorial or not, I genuinely don't know. But what has been left out is, has been dealing with lattice holes within superconductor. So again,

if you can polarize the lattice of a superconductor, again, we go back to polarization, Dr. Poodoff's polarizable vacuum approach and so on. If we polarize the lattice of a superconductor or of a metal of some sort, it's possible we can start to get effect. that would, in fact, again, when other engineering conditions are applied to the superconductor, manipulate light, manipulate gravity, and so on.

There was a paper from 1992 with Douglas Torr, Ning Lee, that showed that the quantization for angular momentum in superconductors resides within the lattice holes of the superconductor and not the Cooper pairs. The Cooper pairs are attributed to the BCS, Barton Cooper Schaefer theory. Wow. And so there's an entire little thrown-out pocket of this that I think should be looked at much more strongly. And so how do you maintain coherence through the lattice holes? Because I, you know, I think about low temperature superconductors and Cooper pairs and there are ways to explain that.

How do you explain that kind of deterministically? Well, essentially, geometry. Well, you polarize the lattice, but then the superconductor itself, maybe it's conical, maybe it's cylindrical, maybe it's a ring, so to speak. If you were to engineer something that would match or fit or abide by the longitudinal waves, if you were to envision these slinkies all around us, it's possible you may start to see effects that you otherwise would not if you were dealing with just a square superconductor, for example. It's possible that these effects may, geometry is everything, in my opinion. When it comes to materials engineering, geometry is everything. And so I think that you can witness certain effects in the laboratory with, you know, four or five thousand dollars worth of

experiment, worth of material that if the superconductor was not a ring superconductor, if it was say a puck with no hole in it in the center or it was a square superconductor, you would not see unless it were a ring superconductor. It's possible, again, that these longitudinal waves are vortex-like in nature as well. So we need to materially engineer something that would abide by the geometry of what this structure of these longitudinal waves are so that these transverse Hertzian waves can then overlap with one another and then create, basically tap the the vacuum fluctuations of the scalar field

that otherwise you would not be able to do. Hopefully that's adequate enough answer. The lattice structures are like geometric inductors to convert electromagnetic waves to couple into the actual fabric of space time. Right, correct. So the idea is that like for generating high frequency gravitational waves, for example,

you need to oscillate the mass of a quadrupole. A quadrupole is when you have two dipoles. that a dipole is the space between two atoms with a positive and a negative charge. The idea is that a quadrupole, when you oscillate that, you can actually emit gravitational waves from it. Now, if you could do it using superconductors, and I say that carefully, if, it would be in a very low energy format, so you would not, you would not, like, induce, you know, emit gravitons that would, you know, break a door down or something. But if you could find a way to pair that with the strong nuclear force, then you may be able to. And I also, again, believe that's what Dr. Paez's some of his work was trying to allude to. Wow.

Okay. So you have these lattice structures in these conductive materials. Right. And that allows for electromagnetism to sort of interact with space time in exotic ways. Geometrically, right. So we initially talked about spinning a capacitor, which would be a mechanical version. But a solid-state version would be using a superconductor in, for example, immersed in liquid helium, for example. Liquid helium is far more effective to induce these effects compared to liquid nitrogen.

But the idea would be that the electrons move along a path that is asymmetrical because the lattice is asymmetrical. Because when you polarize the lattice, you induce, you break the symmetry of that lattice. So you get now these non-linear effects that if we go back to when we first started talking, When a lattice is symmetrical, it is basically abiding by a flat static space time. When a lattice is now asymmetrical, you're curving space time. The electrons start to move in a nonlinear sense. So when you break the lattice, then you're having the electrons move in this nonlinear way. When you break the symmetry of any particle field, no, I shouldn't say particle field.

I have to watch my words here, forgive me. When you break the symmetry of spacetime itself, and in some cases that would be polarizing the lattice of a superconductor, for example, you can get these nonlinear effects that are the result of electromagnetic induction, but become something else entirely topologically. Fascinating. So what is it become that's different topologically? At that point, you can start to bend light.

You can start to have this pairing of electricity and gravity. This goes back to the missing heavy side equations. I know there's a lot of controversy surrounding did heavy side butcher Maxwell's equations or not. It is what I can say is that it is well known to my knowledge behind the scenes that there's an entire heavy side component that misses that basically misses a circuit from an engineering aspect. Now, what I mean by that is back in the early 1900s Heinrich Lorenz, he did something that was called. symmetrical regaging of Maxwell's quaternians because Maxwell was told you're you're not going to be able to get your quaternians across to the engineers at the time which had the education of electricians today so you have to chop it and get it simpler you have to only deal with the right

angle vector and nothing outside of that vector field basically and what's outside of that vector field the scalar potentials now essentially what happened was Lorenz threw the baby out with the bathwater again I don't know if this was a you know conspiracy or not I don't I wasn't there at the time, but the entire Lorenz regaging aspect has basically, how can I put it, stagnated the mainstream field of particle physics. And for the audience, the Lorentz equation is the sum of the vector and scalar potentials. And Lorenz sets this to zero, right? Correct. What he did was he played a clever trick.

When he chopped up Maxwell's Quaternians, and for the audience, if I may say, in a very simple manner. Say, you say to me, Dave, let's order a pizza. The pizza comes and I say to you, there's 12 slices, but I say to you, Jesse, there's only one slice. And you go, Dave, what do you mean? There's another 11 slices. And I go, no, no, no, ignore the 11. There's just one.

That's basically what Lorenz did. Wow. That's in a very simple regard. That's basically what Lorenz did. Now, by doing that, he played a clever trick. He said, and I quote, he didn't deny that the energy outside the vector field existed. He didn't deny that the scalar potentials existed. But what he said was, and I quote, they have no physical significance.

That's basically it's like, it's basically saying that you're throwing the baby out with the bathwater. And I know that there was, I forgot who said this, but it's like saying we have a boat, right, on the water. And we have all this wind around the boat, but the wind is not touching our boat. It's not pushing our sail. So what, so on the- Well, it's a problem because theory is supposed to be a descriptor of ontological reality. Right. To the extent that it can be and you believe science can be a descriptor of reality.

Right. It's an attempt at that. It should never be narrowly confined to present engineering capabilities. I agree. Because in the future, engineering capabilities will always, you know, get that much more amazing. So you do all these exotic things with materials in the 1970s and 80s that you couldn't, you know, in the 1890s. I couldn't agree more. You don't want to, like, constrain that within an equation.

Exactly. And I do believe with the utmost respect to theorists, although I, I don't. I know for a fact behind the scenes the theory is well understood and top theorists understand this. With that said, I do believe that there are certain calculations within theoretical physics that may seem very minuscule or may seem like an artifact at first. But when if you could take those equations and apply a form of practical engineering to it, you would get phenomena that would then force the theorists to readjust their model to the new phenomena that you see in the lab. Theory itself is not going to take, like Feynman said it best, and he was a theorist. He said, I don't care how beautiful your theory is, how eloquent it seems. If it can't be engineered, it's wrong.

If it can't be experimentally verified, it's wrong. And so I think that, as we know, Richard Feynman and John Wheeler calculated, there's enough energy inside the size of a coffee cup to evaporate all of the world's oceans if you could practically get it up in there. At first, they thought it was an artifact of the mathematics. But it turns out that it's not. And so basically when Lorenz resymmetrized the Maxwell's Quaternians, he completely removed all the potentials dealing with the outside of the right angle vector, the vector field itself. And so I think that this has to do with, for example, Dr. Pudov's vector and scalar potential communication where there are no E and B fields.

But you have toroidal geometries that exist in which you can transmit information through topological infolding and outfolding, as David. bone used to call it, basically the idea that if you have a particle, inside that particle is made up of smaller versions of the same particle. So in other words, fractals that tend to fold in and out geometrically if you could electromagnetically create such an effect in that regard. And these potentials may be able to enable that. There's a Lockheed Martin Patton called a coherent matter wave beam that deals with using the Aronov-Bome effect, basically using the potentials themselves, not the fields, but the

potentials to cohere matter itself in a way that would basically self-organize. The particles was, yeah. So there's a lot there that. Like program matter or something? Like, how do you do that? Well, that's the thing. The idea is that spacetime itself is a, I say this carefully, a living structure that has memory.

And so what happens is if you can induce these vector and scalar potentials in an engineering sense, you start to witness geometries that would otherwise, you would not be able to notice with the standard. herzian waves in an in an engineering regard I know that that's very controversial to theorists although I I know theorists behind the scenes that are that openly say no this has been known for decades very in a very confidential regard so okay let's get really specific with the put-off stuff sure he's talking about quantum communications via these scalar and vector potentials correct

correct so how do you do that so I think about like a classic example with a limit to a transverse herzene wave is you're trying to do undersea communications. You have a perpendicular, you know, magnetic field, a B field. And, you know, as a result of that, you're going to get a lot of electron pair off and a, you know, very fast decay function on any sort of signal sent out underwater. Right. How do you get around that with something like, you know, put-offs? It's possible, like we talked about voltage, focusing purely on voltage, focusing on acoustic resonance. But specifically, like, what would you do? Like, how would you?

I think there are certain things that if you used voltage and pulsed a superconductor, for example, you would be able to transmit information in a nonlinear regard that otherwise would not be possible using E and B fields. Okay. If, yeah. Speaking high level. Yeah. I think that pulsing superconductors with pure voltage is very interesting. Have you heard the.

term topological insulator. Absolutely. So this is something I'm just learning about because I have a friend who kind of works in some sensitive areas in national security. He goes pseudonymously by the name Jack. And we've started to interview, you know, do technical series together and speak to people who are honestly above my pay grade when it comes to science. Like he helped me out on the Paise interview, for example. Oh, amazing. Okay. And he talks about these topological insulators, these materials that barium-tightaneate, magnesium bismuth are examples of. Yep. Is that the type of superconductor that if you pulse, you might be able to engage in some sort of quantum comms with?

That, and also there are multiple ways to skin this cat. That's the thing. Everything we've been talking about, there are multiple ways to pursue this. However, I think whether it's barium-titonate, whether it's itrium, barium-carbon oxide, there's a couple of low-temperature superconductors with high-temperations using voltage and acoustic. resonance could in fact be able to transmit information that never decays that would I don't mean for the record I don't mean to speak for Dr. Poodoff but I find his work absolutely fascinating his entire set of papers on his earth tech website is every is uh acted as a mentor type guide to me yeah there are

things there that are revolutionary in a way that is like it it it would break people's minds with regards to, wait, you're telling me that this type of approach can be taken and all of a sudden we get these effects that we're, that are considered beyond the pale, uh, from a mainstream sense. How should we view this from a, because like, from a pure like science and civilian sector, you know, you're telling me that you have these quantum comms that like don't decay over space time, you know, that seems like the way an advanced alien race would communicate. That seems like it would be this massive, exciting unlock for society.

How do we view this from a national security perspective? Because I tried to get in touch with a guy named Lee Hively, who's working in extended electrodynamics. And a friend that helped facilitate that, you know, he got in trouble. Hively freaked out and was like, you know, you shouldn't be reaching out to me. And I think he put like the Navy Press or something on the thread. And I was just like, hey, man, I just wanted to have a conversation. and 99% of, you know, my stuff is offline.

Right. And I always say publicly, if I'm told that for serious national security purposes, I should stop covering a specific thing, I will always do it. Right, right. And anyway, so, but I usually don't get the doors shut in my face, but I did with highly. Well, I can give you an example. And extended electrodynamics. Right.

Well, I can give you an example of what this vector and scalar potentials could do other than communication that would overlap into national security. For example, you could use this similar method to. surveil a room without cameras. Interesting. You can use the potentials that exist all around us right now in the quantum vacuum to surveil an entire room. How would you do that?

That I can't get into, unfortunately. But it is possible. It's very possible. If you can use it for communication, why not in other areas? And I know for a fact it's possible. I know a group that is working in the government that has been working on this since the 90s. And they've had massive success. It's not like an ongoing-ish prototype.

It's been established. They're just working on multiple new versions of it. Do you think humans themselves were like these hard drive avatars or something of something higher? Because I think about, you know, DNA uses binary code. So AGCT, you basically just have, you know, base pairs. You have two combos. I'll tell you something. I think of DNA if you want that is highly controversial.

Yeah, tell me. I think there's a third strand to our DNA. I think that the two helixes that we're used to, I think there's a third one down the middle that is physical but exists at the plank scale, and I think it's electrically conductive. How would that not dawn on like all these biologists and geneticists? You've interviewed someone who knows. Okay. I think I know you're talking about.

You've interviewed somebody who knows. Yeah. Yeah. The initials GN. No comment. Okay. Interesting. Well, that would be pretty fascinating.

And what would that mean implications-wise? Well, it would mean that what we call junk DNA is not junk, first off. But junk DNA is prosaically understood by geneticists and biologists. The idea that there's a third strand, that would be controversial. Correct. And it's possible that third strand is, again, it may overlap with Luke Montagnier's DNA water teleportation aspect. I don't claim to be an expert in that area.

With that said, I do believe that there is something there. I would go one step further and say that there is something there. Actually, you know what? I'll say it. There's a gentleman that was a, not Dr. Gary Nolan, but there's another gentleman that I can tell you the name of after and show you the evidence of in which I wrote up a manuscript dealing with the third strand of DNA. This was a two or three years ago.

and they were willing to help me put it in a peer-reviewed format to help it be reviewed in the more international literature. Unfortunately, that individual was restrained from being able to help me. And so biologics and the field of medicine and DNA was not my area of focus. And so I kind of let that go. With that said, there was a gentleman Peter Garrieryev. It was nominated for the Nobel Prize in 2019 or 2020. The nomination was retracted and he later died, I believe, under Mysterious. circumstances. He was using vector and scalar potentials through polarization methods to

heal people using sound and light. Wow. He was, he has, it's, I believe his wife still runs the website and it's still up. I believe it's called Linguisticwavegenetics.com. I believe if you Google it, it's in Russian, but you can translate it. There is an English version of the website. And you have all of his papers with all of his engineering methodologies. And he was healing people inside of pyramids. Wooden pyramids that were... And this is not me. You want to something trippy?

You know Brian Murrescu is by any chance? I've heard the name. He's... You read a book called The Immortality Keys. A really good guy. He's a buddy of mine. He texted me earlier today. Because he's like,

man, I've just been getting into the work of this guy, Constantine Mile. Right. And it explains a lot of my work around like, you know, scalar and vector potentials and its effect on the human body. Right. I've been interested in this for a while.

And it's interesting. A lot of things seem to be convergent. So this guy was treating people with pyramids? Pyramids. He was having them go inside these pyramids that were, the frame was wooden. However, he was using vector and scalar potentials using electronic circuits, lasers, semiconductors, and so on to create a field in which when the person was in that pyramid, they're, again, controversial.

But their ailments, would be healed, whether it was depression or whether it was more of a physical ailment. I don't... This goes again, back to the polarization of a lattice of a material. This goes back to the notion of voltage with potentials. The idea is that everything has memory. So, for example, my hand, although it's aging right now, the skin and everything, it's possible that you can actually...

Actually, let me give you a very basic example. So think of a stack of 10 books. Now imagine we exist on book 10. We consider that as the present physical moment, if you will. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And so it's possible that the previous, let's say the previous books represent points in time that were previous in which your hand was at a younger stage. It's possible that you can use a polarizable vacuum approach to bring, say, book three up to book 10 presently and replace book 10 with book three, meaning basically now your, the skin is younger from a time. temporal perspective and the entire composition of the body is, of that body you've, body part

you've treated is now literally younger because of the negative and neontropic time reversal aspect that you've, you've now implemented, using vacuum polarization, using voltage and photons and light and so on. Interesting. So biology does decay, I guess, via entropy. It becomes more sort of, yeah, chaotic. almost disassociates or something. We disincarnate over a period of time, and that's why we age or something.

There was a study, sorry to interrupt you, there was a study, I believe, in the 70s, which basically showed that there was an observation in which a UAP was hovering near some plants. And as an individual approach to the UAP, the UAP shot off, as many people have experienced. However, when the plants that were close to the UAP were analyzed, they had aged 10 years within X amount of hours. It's called senescence. Yeah, cell senescence. But, I mean, yeah, I mean, that would be the conventional term.

You go to Chernobyl, there's a study that came out, or not even a study, an article that came out, like, this month, I think, about these dogs at Chernobyl that have rapidly evolved more than any other dog. Think about it, right? Like, it's easy. Like, UV radiation promotes, you know, genetic mutations or whatever. Right, right. Is differential selection, and that creates evolution, right? And so if you were to grow a frog in a Faraday chamber, it would grow, you know, kind of messed up. And then if you're grown in a high radiation environment, it would grow, you know, grow too fast or whatever.

And so there's some sort of equilibrium a la the Schumann residence of the Earth, this magnetosphere of the Earth, that allows life to form. Right. And so I could see why a lot of this work would be pretty controversial because you're kind of messing with the soup that we're all human. Well, you said Schumann resonance, right? It's been argued that that is the heartbeat of the planet, so to speak. Yeah, exactly.

Right. And that the reason on the surface that the frequencies are so low is because you'd have to get closer into the center of the Earth for the frequency to get higher. What if it's possible that the vector and scalar communication potentials we were talking about, again, there are no electric or magnetic fields, purely toroidal geometries, and when I said acoustic resonance, what if that's the Schumann resonance that we're speaking of? What if the Schumann resonance can never disappear, so to speak, from a field or from an area? But E and B fields can, but that resonance never does, because it is part of a more core makeup of this reality.

Wow. That's, that it's, I think you're, I would argue very strongly, you're talking about the, same thing there. We're talking about acoustic resonance or Schumann resonance with regards to if you have a room like the room we're in now and we removed all E and B fields. But there were still these resonant toroidal geometries. You can overlap RF radio frequencies with acoustic frequencies. And so these toroidal geometries may in fact stem from the Schumann resonance of the planet. Interesting. So you would say that the acoustic frequencies are sort of downstream of these RF frequencies that come from human resonance?

I'm saying that when you remove electric and magnetic fields and you deal purely with potentials, you have still a resonance there. Interesting. This goes back to what the Germans called the Zittur Buagung, meaning basically that in quantum theory, a particle is never still. So when we think of zero point energy, the reason we call zero point energy, as I understand, is because when you get to absolute zero, the particle is still oscillating. Classically, we think that like when you push a kid on a swing

and then the kid jumps off the swing and the swing comes to rest, classically, we're told we think that the swing is truly still. But at the plank level, the particles that make up that swing are constantly oscillating still. So all reality, as we see it, is derived from some sub-quantum field of potentials? Arguably, arguably, that it's derived, yes, that the potentials are more fundamental than the fields themselves. And what determines how these potentials sort of collapse?

I don't want to say because it starts to overlap into stuff that's pretty sensitive. Okay. Forgive me. But it's, it's, does the mind have anything to do with it? I believe, I believe so. I believe that at the core of it, we're dealing with non-physical sources here with what people have called spiritual. Sorry, I thought you were going down another avenue. That's why I said I couldn't speak on it.

But if you're going down the spiritual or the consciousness avenue, I'm very, I'm open to talk about that. I think that at the core of it, we start getting to non-physical energies that otherwise give rise to physical matter and material. Have you built anything with your newfound knowledge that you can talk about? The stuff I have built, I can't speak on. Okay. That's the, forgive me. I wish I could.

That's all right. Okay. Yeah. Do you feel like after having gotten into some of these esoteric science, you know, concepts, that it's made you a more spiritual person? Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. This is the part where most people, I know that you're very open to this. And as I've said before we recorded, I have great respect for you because you're so open to it, amongst other things.

But yes, I believe the spiritual aspect is the key fundamental core of all of this. As much as people are so interested in physical things, I believe that the spiritual slash metaphysical angle is the core of all this without a shadow of a doubt. Me personally, I think that the soul, if you will, is possibly a Bose-Einstein condensate matrix or a plasma matrix of sorts. What is it boz-Einstein? It's a level of a field of a tier of matter, if you will, above plasma. So you have solids, liquids, gases, plasma. then you have Bose Einstein Co. Whoa.

And then there are more than that. To what extent those have been divulged publicly? I don't know. You have levels of energy above? I didn't even know you have levels of energy above plasma. That's what, in my opinion, not to speak for him, but that's what Dr. Paez spoke about

when he was on Kurchai Mungles' theory of everything when he said that it's possible that you can induce these types of effects like inertial mass reduction and so on, not with solids, but with plasmas. Because it's possible that plasmas act as a doorway between the quantum vacuum and the physical world, so to speak. So if you think of... How does that work?

In a very basic manner, example, the way I gave the example of like the pizza slices for the Maxwell, the Lorenz regaging and all that, if you think of the quantum vacuum all around us as moving very, very rapidly, maybe faster than the speed of light or maybe at the speed of light, think of a bunch of doorways moving quickly side to side and they're moving so fast, you can't grab one of the handles to open those doors. Plasma acts as a medium that slows down those doors so you can grab a handle and open it. Explain that. It's possible plasma slows down quantum vacuum fluctuations. And how does it slow down quantum vacuum fluctuation? It's a, it's an in-between state between a physical medium and a non-physical medium.

You see what I'm saying? So it acts as... So it's like a carrier for the... The potentials in some way? Correct. The same way that I would say that the work of Sal Pius's inventions, not to speak for him, but I know that he agreed with me when I brought it up to him, the devices themselves, including the, you know, rumored free energy devices and so on, they're not generating the free energy.

They're acting more as facilitators between the quantum vacuum and the material world. They're not actually generating, in some cases they might be, but in terms of even various forms of energy generating, that are based in zero point, zero point fields or zero point. When we talk about virtual particles, is free energy essentially the extraction of virtual particles into real particles? That in some cases, yep, you can argue if one could get a coefficient of performance over one, that would be the case in some.

There's more than one way to skin this cat, and that's absolutely one avenue, yeah. And then one way is through, like, plasma is like this conduit between the, potentials world and like the world we see or something? Yep, basically, yeah. Have you heard of Ken Shoulders? Absolutely, exotic vacuum objects. So how does that relate to this? I think what Ken shoulders was doing was he was experimenting with curved space time materials that induced the effects that happened when spacetime is not flat but curved. So in other words, I believe Ken Shoulders had an experiment, and please correct me if I'm wrong, where basically he found that electrical pulses into a ceramic would break, not break ceramic, but create these punctures in the ceramic that

electricity normally wouldn't do. It's possible he was interacting with a slight gravitational field in those with that, with what he was doing. Now, another example is semiconductors. This is not well known, but in the field of semiconductors, at least publicly, to my knowledge, when you're dealing with, and forgive me if I butcher this to those that are watching in the semiconductor field, particularly on the manufacturing side, but when you're dealing with the doping of the core lattice of a semiconductor, if you were to take that core lattice and give it to audio experts to then analyze, you would hear this nonstop hum.

And that goes back to what we talked about with the Zittor Buagung that the Germans called, the swing stopping, but there's still being every piece of matter is still oscillating. It's possible that hum is an electromagnetic, um, uh, interaction with the subtle gravitational field. Whoa. It's possible. I'm not saying it is. I'm saying it's possible because I don't want to...

It's interesting because that often is described around UFOs as you hear this humming noise. Hmm. That's really interesting. Yeah. Have you heard of Burkhardheim? I have. This was this German scientist who was working on some interesting kind of anti-gravitic, you know, stuff. And then he was brought over to the U.S.

And I think he worked with Lockheed Martin, or Martin Corporation, pre-Lockied merger. A Martin Marietta. A Martin Marietta. And I think they had a Martin Corporation at least had a program called RIAS, which was their anti-gravity research outfit. Got you. And I believe Burkartheim did contract work for them. A lot of his work is in German, but I believe he has two heirs on the theoretical physics side, two guys named Drusher and Hauser. Okay.

They also believe in two forms of gravity. canonical, like small-scale gravity and large-scale gravity, and they say one of these forms of gravity bind with electromagnetism more tightly. Specifically, I think some of these more exotic electromagnetic experiments involve this sort of bind up. I would agree. I would agree. I think that what they're saying there, unless I'm interpreting incorrectly, is identical to what I was saying earlier in our conversation about how gravitational effects could come from the electromagnetic conditions inducing topological states that would lead to the coupling to the gravitational field that could then through the strong nuclear force actually literally create you know have a

you know warp space time itself you know time displacement would have you a situation where the inside of the craft is larger than the outside you know spacetime metric engineering um as dr putoff talks about i think there's something there with superconductors and and semi conductors and high voltage that we already know secretly can be done with that. Where do you think we are as far as ability to make progress on this? Because my general sense is like if you had a governor placed on physics over the last 50 years, you know, like a governor on an engine where it's only go to 25 miles per hour. And the governor in this case is like the speed of light as the speed limit.

Right. It's Einstein's positivity conditions on his field equations. Right. It's, you know, no scalar field. You know, you'd say the governor is a bunch of different things. Right, right, right, right. All those seem, and that the governor is, your consciousness has nothing to do with your matter interactions, you know, whatever. The governor's coming off on all of those things at once is what it feels like.

Right. And so what does that mean? Because you have all these different, you know, dynamics at play. You have a national security state probably wanting to push this to the extent that it's not typically. the hat to the adversary. Right. You have all this civil side need for this just as far as our cities are in decay. Like airplanes have not improved over the last 50 years at all. You have this kind of duopoly. There's an energy crisis right now, I believe, in North America as well. There's an, yeah. I mean, well, we have, we have fracking and stuff. But like, yeah, I mean,

like, there should be some update there as far. And maybe even an update beyond, you know, nuclear fission plants. Right. And so, you know, and there, there are starting. up's working on nuclear fusion, but they're often working on it from the super Sisyphean perspective of these Tokomac reactors where the energy necessary to create these high-powered lasers is just sort of self-defeating if you're trying to create free energy in the first place. It's like, why would you do that? I think there have been, to your point, I think there have been discoveries that make the white world of physics, I don't want to say laughable because I have tremendous respect for the people

that generally are not in the know and that just genuinely are trying to do good research. But the implications, I think, to your main, the core of your question, I think we're at a time right now where, and I'm not speaking for anyone other than myself, but from my little corner of the world, I think that we're dealing with multiple factions or elements of both government and private industry that are, that have vast influence on what could or could not be revealed. And I think right now there's an issue of no one really knows what to do. Yeah. And I, because if you, if you reveal. some than what you know of a you know a technological advancement then people are

going to take it and run with it and then that's going to open up a whole other avenue of research that admittedly can be weaponized pretty easily if someone has a nefarious mindset yeah so I do actually understand to a significant extent the necessity for not divulging this in some cases now in other cases I also think however that we should not let the the the carte blanche answer of security impede our spiritual and technological development. Yeah. So I'm not saying I know what the answer is.

I'm saying that it should be talked about more and all the people you've had on have been fantastic to help move this forward. I think you've played a crucial role in this. But as to how the line can be drawn, I'm not going to sit here and pretend like it's easy. It's effing tough. Yeah. It's not easy. Yeah.

It's not easy because you open up one aspect of zero point energy engineering. Yeah. Next thing you know, all of a sudden, you know, this guy's got, this guy's got cold fusion going, and then that leads into maybe a coefficient of performance over one. Then that leads to all of a sudden, you know, with some adjustments, all of a sudden, you're now basically doing what Ken's shoulders did. You pulse this, you know, this electromagnetic energy into a piece of a ceramic or something, and all of a sudden it breaks the ceramic when you would expect it normally not to, all this type of stuff. And I think then, you then have to ask, okay, what? And again, this becomes an issue because it sounds like I'm trying to say that there should be gatekeepers, but I don't think there should be. But at the same time, you turn some of these,

we have mutual friends that are privately working on some of these things where with, with, you know, half a year's worth of work, six, seven months worth of work in the lab, all of a sudden it's a weapon now. And if someone gets a hold of that weapon, it's game over for a lot of people. The world's getting weird, man.

I know. It's interesting. Like, it's like, if you think about social control systems, hierarchies. Right. Maybe you had, like, religious hierarchies the past. Oh, yes. And then you have, like, Compromot-based, like, Epstein, Diddy, weird shit like that. Yep.

And then you get, like, lower latency into, like, phones and laptops and digital stuff. And then you get into even weirder territory of, like, mind matter, like. the latency of like these control systems and like maybe we're starting to see you know more anomalous stuff in the sky like the veil is dropping correct it's weird i agree i think that the veil is dropping and i think that people in general are starting to wake up more and without getting to esoteric i think that there is a profound reason for that that is the the sum of our collective consciousnesses speaking to something larger than what we could possibly fathom currently Yeah, it's a really fascinating time. Have you ever seen a UFO? Oh, yeah.

My old house, there were a few that would be above it above the house. There were few that were above it? Three in total over the course of five years. Yeah, I mean, I've seen a bunch of them, yes. Just first instinct, what do you think they were, why were they around your house? I wish I could say I don't know. I really don't know. It was very interesting.

My father said to me, hey, come take a look one time, one of the three times. and it was your typical, it was like a donut-shaped craft. For you, like, what's your dream with this stuff? What do you want to do? That's a good question. I didn't actually, I didn't expect you to ask me that because it's a good question. I think I want to help people as much as I can with regards to understanding this stuff, which is why I privately consult for private groups in certain areas.

And then there's other projects that I work on that I have to be honest, I wrestle in a moral sense with even discussing, divulging or not. Because I've spoken with some very respectable high-level people in the Department of Defense and some of those in which you know. And the advice has always been people, it's people will not see what you see. So it's in many cases. I think you would, you as Jesse would. But because you, Jesse, if I could say quickly, you're not the type of guy where if I showed you something, you'd be like, oh, how can I weaponize this? But others would be. And that's where I'm kind of like, well, I'll make my living with the consulting right now and working on private projects and so on for people.

Because as much as I want to, you know, open source it, if you will, there's an argument to be made that there have been people in the past that have open sourced it. And then people just don't believe it. No, I think that's fair, man. I mean, like, there's a real argument to be made that, like, the next Klaus Fuchs, you know, the guy that, like, stole the American Atomic secrets, worked at Los Alamos from 1941 to 1950, went to the Soviets with all that stuff, is, like, somebody who just kind of runs their mouth on social media. And, like, it brings up, I don't know. I mean, like, they're like, it's like we're both, you know, friendly with Ashton Forbes, the MH370 stuff.

I'm not at all equating him to Klaus Fuchs. But I have these conversations with him about the MH370 videos. You know, these are these orbs teleporting the, you know, the Malaysian airplane. In 2014, it was this big news story. CNN was talking about it for three months. This plane went missing. Nobody knew where the plane is. Some weird circumstances around the plane.

And then you have this video come out that, you know, maybe it looks like these orbs just like teleported the plane. Right. It's really bizarre. Right. And now he's getting into all sorts of free energy and, you know, exotic physics stuff. And I have these conversations with him and he's like, so I think it's, this can create a death weapon that will end the world, but it needs to come out.

And I'm like, dude, I don't think either of us are smart enough to know and be high conviction that that's definitely the case. Like you hear things, you have intuitions around that. Maybe it is the case. Right. But if you think that's the case and that is your intuition and you think this could be extremely dangerous and dual use, it's really irresponsible to like just put a lot of this stuff out willy-nilly.

And it's the reason why with the Townsend Brown stuff that I put out, I'm like, that's like, you know, it's this 70-year snapshot from a long time ago. But I'm like, I'd love to know if somebody was like, you know, hey, if this is a, there's one line from a biography of Townsend Brown, you know, as Paul Schatzkin book, The Man Who Mastered Gravity, where it's, you know, this will make a thermonuclear bomb look like a child's firecracker. Yes. And you hear that, and I'm like, I don't know if to take that at face value, but if I

heard that that was the case, I would never touch this stuff again. And you've hit the nail on the head with regards to what I was trying to convey to you just now. That's exactly the problem. So are you high conviction? that these things could be weaponized in like an extra world catastrophic way or i am of high convoy i would put money on it really i would put money on it that's so then what i don't say that proudly so what do we do because on the one hand you have interstellar travel and like that'd be great if we get that right and you

have like all these cool updates you get well i think i think i don't want to here's the thing i don't want to i wish i could i could sit here and say jesse i have an alternative plan i i don't with that said i think that what we're seeing now with the discussion right now of metamaterials and again i'm not trying to say that they're not i'm not trying to say they're worthless there there's a lot of value especially you know layered semiconductors and blah blah but and and you know mixed with different uh alloys and all that but the the point i'm trying to make is that i think i think that's why the metamaterial angle was taken with regards to always saying we don't know how the physics of it works and there's meta we do know how it works i'll blatantly say it we know exactly how it works we blatantly but if you if you

If you just talk about the materials, then it's like you're ignoring the physics. The physics is more dangerous. If someone can take the theoretical physics and apply it to experiments. Yeah. Yeah. Dangerous. If you can bridge those two worlds, not a lot of people. Some people can look at the theory and go, oh, my God, I can make this and make that and make that.

Other people only know how to engineer stuff and other people only know how to do theory, which is still fantastic. But if you can have someone that can do both. Yeah. You have a problem. Or you have a, you also, it's a half class full, half class empty type scenario. That's interesting because I was on the phone with a new friend who is making a documentary about Bob Lazar. Okay.

And I'm just speaking off the cuff and I'm like, you know, it would be an amazing interview. I was like, I really want to interview, man. I'll do anything to get in a room with this guy. Right, right, right. I'm like, why don't I bring in this like a well-respected theoretical physicist? Right. And he can translate some of the stuff. that Bob Lazar was saying as far as gravity A, gravity B, that sort of stuff.

Right. And the call kept cutting when I was saying that. And I'm like, oh, interesting. And then I think about it for a second and I'm like, if the theory I have about Paul Bazar is right, which is he was this limited hangout of a person sort of meant to reveal certain info but meant to hold back the rest. Yep. Then you wouldn't want to translate, you know, his stuff into like broader theoretical

physics language. You want to keep it lowbrow and somewhat stigmatized, but still be this initiation path. To your point, what I will say is that there's information on the Internet that has been out there for since the internet, almost since the- And to the powers that be, I won't do that version of the interview. I'll just talk to Lazar. Right, right. There's information out there that has been being uploaded to the web since almost the birth of the internet, which up until this day, which as the information is scattered out there right now in the web is harmless. But if it gets compiled in a particular order, it becomes highly sensitive. That's a legitimate thing. And so the hard part is sifting the wheat from the chaff, so to speak. But if you can, even to a, even, you know, to a minimal extent, it become, that's when one's own,

this is where I think the push for the spiritual angle of things is necessary. Like when Danny Sheehan talked about, we need to emphasize the spiritual component of that. this. I couldn't agree more with Mr. Sheehan when he says that. I think that that's one of the reasons why the alleged stories of ET visitations saying to our government leaders, you have to develop spiritually before we can exchange more technological information with you or material with you. I think that's because that deals with the moral aspect and spiritual responsibility of not blowing ourselves up and worse and worse. It may be, you know, we talk about the messing with time, temporal displacement.

I'm familiar with a newspaper clipping from Toronto, Canada, from the 19, late 50s, early 60s that talked about how there was a gentleman that invented a death ray. But for the people that came to go visit him, there were some Mossad representatives that went to go see him. They reported missing time, meaning their watch show. Whoa. Right. And I'll show you the article tomorrow.

They reported that when they were in his living room or his basement, I forgot which part of his house he was experimenting in. 25 minutes had gone by for them, but when they came outside, the external clocks that showed that two hours went by. And the Mossad showed great interest. And I believe he sold it to the, this is literally in the article, the Zionist regime of Israel in particular, he stated. Wait, what? Yeah, yeah, I'll show you the article tomorrow. Wait, he sold some like, he sold that.

I don't want to say what it was like a timeline manipulator. No, initially it was like a death ray of some sort. sorts that he was working on. It's a two-page article, very old. Someone like photocopied it or scanned it and put it on the web. But it was essentially a death ray of sorts. And some of the side effects of when he turned it on was temporal displacement within the vicinity of. That's interesting. I mean, I don't know if that seems so wild to me, but there's this, you know, Tesla biographer I was speaking to recently. Right. And he was talking about how Tesla, you know, would do some of these high voltage experiments and he would say weird things like, I see the future, the president of the past,

all at once. Right. And Townsend Brown was extremely interested in time alteration, time travel. Yep. Do you think, and then the final thing is, you know, there's a guy named Timothy Taylor's a NASA mission controller. Right. Who's written about in Diana Pesolka's book called American Cosmic. He is a successful NASA mission controller that works on like, you know, SpaceX missions and stuff at Cape Canaveral. Right. And he told, I guess, Chris Bledsoe, who had experienced all these sort of UFO settings at his house.

For whatever reason, Tim Taylor shows up at his house and they become friends. Right. And he tells Chris, I was part of this secret time travel group based in Nassau in the Bahamas, and Thomas Townsend Brown was the president of this group. And I would think that would be total quackery if I wasn't so deep on Townsend Brown. Right, right. And I didn't know he was so deep into time travel stuff and he spent a lot of time in Nassau in the Bahamas. And so I do find that interesting.

I agree. I think if I could say quickly from a scientific perspective, it's been argued that what's called charge parity inversion in the vacuum or in the quantum vacuum is equivalent to reflection. And what that means essentially is we're dealing with vacuum polarization. And if we're dealing with vacuum polarization, if we polarization, if we polarize, time but not space, we can have this scenario in which time displacement does occur. Wait, how do you polarize? Because I think of time and space is indelibly bound. So how do you these longitudinal scalar waves that we've been speaking of are help tap time rather than space. How do you do that? Oh, well, you're asking how to engineer that. One example, well, one example would be,

for example, would be Sal Pius's work or how's space, how put off space time metric engineering. But you're controlling for space? You are manipulating time to then, which as a residual effect, has effects on space. Interesting. Okay. So time is the kind of Archimedean upstream thing that is updating space. Right. So if you think of these longitudinal waves, right, as slinkies all around us, right?

And each slinky has a loop. That loop represents a state of entropy and negentropy. So what I mean by that is I have my water bottle here, right? For example, I take this water, say I take this water and I put it on the table. Between this point in space, between here, when I brought the water to the table and then here, one loop of that longitudinal wave has been completed. And now we're moving on to the next loop like a movie reel. The loops are constantly moving, which is a temporal effect.

And so essentially you can have a device where you, you can observe by polarizing. If you came back, say, whenever, you know, six months from now, and you had a device that could look wherever you pointed that device, that particular part of space you could see in the past and you had a device that could see that, you could have a device that could show using the vector and scalar potentials of space and time itself, my, a visual of my hand doing this over and over. What?

Because that's what, I, so I did a, um, uh, I did a, um, uh, a visual of my hand doing this over over. So I did a, I did a, I was on a panel one time with Sal Paez and a handful of others last, two summers ago. And basically I used this exact example. And Sal Paez started basically clapping as if to say yes, that's what you have to, yeah, it's. If there were to be a conflict on some more primordial level than our earthly conflicts, it would be on the level of time. Correct. And that leads to things like the, you know, the rumors of the Philadelphia experiment. Yeah. Well, that was Thomas Towns. Brown was involved in the Philadelphia experiment.

That's temporal displacement. The rumors that some people were stuck between a wall or like physical, physical matter and space. That arguably is worse than a nuclear bomb. I just am not sure what happened in the Philadelphia experiment. Like a part of me thinks it was this quacky disinfo campaign. Maybe there, I think there was actually something underlying it. Even if it was, even if it was fake, the rumors that discuss, that speak of it are similar to the way temporal displacement would work as I understand it.

Have you heard of Bob Beckwith by any chance? Oh, Robert Beckwith? Yes, yes, I have. Yes. Does he say, because he claims that I think he was maybe somewhat involved in the Philadelphia experiment. I think so. He later did some really interesting work with like extremely high magnetic fields.

Yep. And then teleportation. Until, yep. So. I think there's something there. Again, I think magnetism is, is gravity's cut. And I think that, again, you manipulate space time. You're messing with gravity, but you're also messing with, again, time itself.

And so if I could say very quickly, when I gave the example of my putting the water, like picking the water up and putting it on the table, imagine there's a parcel of memory that it will forever exist now, even when I stop doing this. That is acting like a movie reel that is just sitting there in the vacuum waiting to be re-loaded up again, if you will. Whoa. Or re-rendered. Like a saved game state. Correct. There you go. Exactly.

Like a saved game state. So we think of the, we see some, you know, David Bowen talked about, you know, this holographic morphogenic reality we live in. There have been some papers recently that have discussed that as well. And it's, again, I think there's something there. I really do. Very interesting. Yeah.

This idea of rendering holographic theory and so on. I think it's, it speaks to what. James Ryder was saying with regards to what what is light. I think there's something with that as well. I believe the Bavita Gita, if I'm not mistaken, that Ophaba Gita. Right. That Oppenheimer quoted. I could be wrong about this, but I recall reading that the original translation was not I am death, the destroyer of worlds.

It was I am time, the destroyer of worlds. Really? As I understand it. Is that true? We can verify that, but I believe. It's funny. You know, I can get a little. little crazy with these things, but like, sometimes I think of like the end of time.

Right. As like a, in the beginning of time. Right. As like these double entendres where it's like the end of time is like, what does that even mean? Right. Like it's, you're kind of referring to the apocalypse. Right, right. But maybe it's the end of time itself.

And if you think we're living in a lower 3D time bound universe or whatever, maybe there's some apotheosis like event or something. There's some escalotogical, escalatory event. Yeah. That will lead to the next step or fit. Yeah. The end of Zeno's arrow of time, perhaps, where we're become more trantemporal in nature. Very possible.

Where we're not moving in this kind of river arrow of time that like, you know, well, that's why, for example, it's, you know, for example, if we could get on that topic very quickly, it's like for,

if you go out to a, you go out with friends to a bar and then all of a sudden, you get a bad feeling that something's going to happen. And then you say, guys, you know, an hour or two later, there's a shooting or a stabbing. It's possible that you were viewing a point in time that has already happened in your soul, if you will,

but hasn't played out in the material world. I believe that. I think you can actually not prove that scientifically, but like we're getting there. Yeah. The brain probably works like a room temperature quantum system, maybe. I think so. You know, like Penrose would say this, right,

with the microtubules. Yes. If that's the case, you have temporal non-local. and quantum systems. Exactly. And we know we can reverse cubit positions in quantum computations. Right. And so if you, it's been hypothesized by anybody working on quantum computer, right. Very credible people will say, yeah, maybe in a working quantum computer, you could send information back in time, even on the semantic application layer. Right. So you could send it, you know, information about like, you know, some password. You could send

it back in time like, you know, a month prior or whatever, for as long as the quantum computer has been on. Right. And so if you think about the brain as possibly this room temperature quantum system, maybe we do have access to shards of the future, especially when it's adaptive for our survival. Right. So when you have like a really, you know, bad or scary premonition or really meaningful event, you might actually have access to that. And there might be a physical way of explaining that. I think the only work that I know of, and again, because it's not really my area of competency, but the only work that I know of is Dean Radin. Yeah. And I think that what he's, onto is very interesting. To your point, it can't be proven, at least yet, that we know of,

but it's possible that it might be able to be at some point in the near or distant future. Do you think that Blue Bing that prompted you to get into all this crazy stuff is still helping you out? Yeah. Yes. What do you think that Blue Bing is? I'll be honest with you, I don't know. I've really, I don't know. Have you seen it since? it's more of a feeling rather than a visual that experience was a very unique one and i haven't had it since it's more of a feeling why do you think it i'll be honest with you i think i'll be honest with you i think there are hundreds of thousands of people across the world that that people have encountered with those exact similar experiences well it's interesting you have like ramanudrin you know

downloading math so you look at the history of the the phenomenology of science itself and it's way trippier i don't right so to your point i don't think I'm the only one by any stretch. I think that if you think about the possibility that there's an attempt to educate the younger generation, you know, people younger than me, there, again, I'm not on TikTok, but the few things I've seen on TikTok with regards to kids understanding just, you know, science and all that baffles me in a positive way. Yeah. Because it's like where are they learning this from? And in some cases, I've met with some families where the kids I've been graciously allowed to speak with the kids and the kids have said well the the the the the the the

the the the ghost comes and tells me they don't know how else to explain yeah yeah yeah and it's like wait a minute you've just described you know uh geodesic time like curves and in in with you know with regards to um uh time machines or and so on and it's like how did you you're like eight years old how did you you know what i mean yeah well it goes it goes into like how do we know anything and epistemics and and you know i actually just interviewed this harvard neuroscientist who's studying these telepathic kids got you the whole world's about to know about this oh wow because you have these controlled experiments where you have the kid in one room and then you have the parent one parent specifically that they have some sort of mind meld with

right and you know random images popping up in the room with the parent and they can 95% of the time accurately say that a baseball or a great fruit or a cloud is popping up on the screen. It's absurd. And she got into this because she was really interested in people like Kim Peek, who's the inspiration for Rain Man and like savants, right. That would like, it felt like they were accessing knowledge libraries in the cloud. They weren't just like, toiling away, learning things for years at a time or whatever. Exactly. So I think we're on the verge of a greater epistemological paradigm shift. And I'm excited to be here for it. And I think you're a part of it. I appreciate it and I think you're playing a very crucial role in all of this and I think to your

point, if I could say without bringing this up again, I think that that third strand of DNA that we talked about may also, because it's electrically conductive, may be an organic particle accelerator that our bodies allow us to access with regards to the pinnial gland that may in fact allow for information download from what people have called. An organic particle accelerator. How would that work? Well, the idea would be maybe perhaps we are organic versions of what physical UAP are, of what craft are. We may be the carbon-based organic version of what, if you look at the way in which a craft allegedly operates, or the way in how it operates in an engineering sense, it's not unlike that of a human body except with a few different, except with a few differences. Well, there are ancient traditions that would describe these things as sort of sole carriers or something. Right, right.

And I think that's pretty spot on, my opinion. Well, then I think about that. And then I think about some of these defense use cases. And I'm like, that's a little gnarly. Yeah. Yes. Yes. I think there's a whole psychotronic aspect to this.

That's very controversial. But I think, for example, there was a FOIA leak out of the Washington, D.C. Fusion Center that someone had filed a FOIA with regards to looking into some, political groups, but it turned out that they were given, I think the file was called, effects on the human body. And basically what it showed was that through the psychotronic, electromagnetic, I don't want to, unfortunately, weapons, it showed the human biofield and the different frequencies that could be applied to it from a distance in which you could manipulate the body. I know, for example, someone that worked on a device that could make someone

immediately have to defecate uncontrollably. You know somebody that works on a device that makes people remotely need to take a shit? Yes. Are you serious? Yes. Who's this person? They're not public. But no, it's been, I mean, this is, and I'll tell you to the people that know of this

stuff, that's old news. And that's why I'm so confident in what I'm saying with regards to this. Oh, man, that's freaky. Yeah. And I'm not trying to scare people. I believe that those same methodologies could also be used to heal people. So again, we have an overlap. How do we heal people?

Well, this goes back to our conversation of the polarizing the vacuum, the linguistic wave genetics, the Russian gentlemen, for example. It goes back to that. What we're dealing with is an overlap of all these fields. And so basically the same things that can hurt people can also help people. Well, man, I hope to God, because I think these things are speeding up that we evolve in our consciousness. and are made capable to handle what I think is ultimately a forcing function for humanity, which is technological progress along these lines. I couldn't agree more.

I couldn't agree more. Yeah. So it's pretty interesting. It's fascinating. Would you ever do another one of these with a theoretical physicist that I could bring in from like a traditional academic background? Because I think that would be kind of fun. Yeah, sure. I'll tell you.

If I could end by saying this, Jesse. See, what I want you in your audience to know is I'm not expecting anyone to blindly believe me. There are things that I've seen in private laboratories that are undeniable and verified by people other than myself in those facilities. However, I'm of the view that I know what I know, but I don't expect people to blindly believe me unless they've seen it for themselves. So for me, I don't get discouraged if a theoretical physicist calls me crazy or says, you know, I'm open to some of your stuff, but the rest is too rude to woo for me. I'll talk to anybody. I love it, man. Well, I appreciate what you're doing.

Thank you. You have such an amazing, cool story. I appreciate it. I hope the Blue Bean keeps helping you out. Thank you so much. I appreciate it. And I keep watching your show and I look forward to all the new episodes you have coming out. So thank you.

Thanks, man. And go check out Generation Z, which is on YouTube. YouTube, Spotify, Apple Podcasts. Spotify, Apple Podcasts. Go support. Thanks so much. Thank you so much. I appreciate it.

Thank you. Awesome. Huge news, everyone. We've been sitting on a ton of unreleased footage that we will now be releasing weekly in our new WOP. Our first episode is a completely uncut, heated discussion between Hal Putoff and Eric Weinstein on remote viewing. Yeah, you heard that right.

I still can't believe I experienced that firsthand, and now I'm happy to share it with you all as our first exclusive video on WOPP. Head over to Wop.com slash American Alchemy Premium to become a premium member today. By becoming a member, you'll gain access to weekly premium videos, behind-the-scenes footage, and monthly group calls where we discuss the ideas we love most. Plus, you'll get early access to merchandise drops and be the first to know about the upcoming conference we'll be holding later in 2025. Our WOP community will serve as a private space where curious individuals and tech enthusiasts can come together to challenge the status quo and explore ideas shaping our future. If you're passionate about exploring unconventional ideas and want to dive even deeper into our content, I invite you to join our WAP today. Head over to WAP.com slash American Alchemy Premium to become a premium member today.

Thank you so much and enjoy the rest of today's episode.