American Alchemy with Jesse Michels - CIA Contractor: "Obama Received An Alien Prophecy" (ft. Bob McGwire)

Episode Date: December 14, 2024

Discuss today's episode with others! https://tinyurl.com/whopepisodeforum In this episode, Jesse Michels and co-host Jack (aka Missileman on Twitter) sit down with Bob McGwire to explore UFO phenomena, government secrets, and the intersection of advanced physics and consciousness. This deep-dive discussion uncovers the mysteries behind UAPs and their potential implications for humanity. Timestamps: 00:00 - Introduction 00:47 - Bob McGwire's Background 02:26 - Matthew Pines 04:25 - Quantum Mechanics vs. General Relativity 07:04 - Wave Function Collapse Theories 11:30 - Meeting John Wheeler 15:26 - Government Experience: NSA, CIA, NRO 27:03 - Founding and Developing Hawkeye 360 44:31 - IARPA, CRISPR & Intelligence Projects 47:53 - Humans as Data Storage Mechanisms 52:03 - Future of Science & Technology Education 58:08 - Tim Taylor & Connections to Barack Obama 1:00:07 - Extraterrestrial Encounters and Observations 1:05:04 - Implants Phenomenon in Humans 1:22:04 - The Future of Scientific Inquiry into UFO Phenomena 1:33:11 - Discovering and Analyzing Implants 1:40:02 - Extraterrestrial Encounters and Observations 1:45:36 - Implants Phenomenon in Humans 1:53:39 - Tim Taylor & Connections to Barack Obama SPOTIFY ➤ https://tinyurl.com/jessemichelsspotify DISCORD ➤ https://discord.gg/jessemichels INSTAGRAM (Personal) ➤ https://www.instagram.com/jessemichels INSTAGRAM (Show) ➤ https://www.instagram.com/jessemichelsofficial TWITTER ➤ https://twitter.com/AlchemyAmerican EMAIL/BOOKINGS ➤ [e-mail] Original music: https://open.spotify.com/artist/6LlLRudDi60Uy4jcmOSEs1 #science #physics #aliens #uap #interview #disclosure Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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So it's almost like we're walking hard drives or something? Yeah, I knew the address because it was the address of Chris Budzo. I knew the napkin because it was the presidential seal on a napkin from Camp David. and the picture was mailed to him by Tim Taylor. By Tim Taylor. And the only person that story can have been told to in that envelope was Barack Obama. Oh, my God. We are here with the great Bob McGuire.

Very honored to have you. Your name keeps coming up. I think, you know, we are kind of in a lot of the same circles. You're very involved in kind of UFO Twitter. But, you know, UFO Twitter can be a very murky place. Yes. And I think you're, you have a lot, you kind of rise above the rest as far as really impressive credentials and thorough investigation into UFO propulsion and theories about, you know,

where they exist, how they exist. And I think you have the background to kind of back all of this up. You really have an amazing history for a couple of decades. You worked various three-letter agencies inside the, the government and then you started Hotkeye 360, Federated Wireless. And so couldn't be more honored to have you, especially amidst this amazing new backdrop. We have a new set for American Alchemy. And our co-host, recurring co-host, Jack, who's here, who is also very excited to talk to you. And again, can always speak at higher levels than me when it comes to kind of heterodox physics

framework. So, honored to have you both. We're glad to have to great science, Bob. Oh, my goodness. Please tell that to my girlfriend. So she'll think that's, I'm not lying to her. Well, let's get this to millions of views. Let's do it. You can brag to her. It's good. So, Jesse, it's a great, I followed you and listened to you, and I love your podcast, and it's an honor to be on it.

Oh, man. Well, it's an honor to have you. Really appreciate it. And there's so many kind of jumping off points and, like, places to start. But why don't we just get into what we were talking about offset a second ago? You were saying you think you have a connection. I just had Matthew Pines on, who's an incredible thing. Matthew Pines is that person who has a near perfect photographic memory

who decided not to do physics. And I'm ready to turn him over my knee and spank him for not doing physics. Because the guy is the real deal. He commanded the entire field. Talk to you about detail stuff that excited me, excited my imagination, and he did it without looking at a single note for hours. Yeah, it was extremely impressive. It's very impressed. It was one of the few times, especially when he was getting into branch heel and real space where I felt like I could barely track or barely keep up with what he was saying.

Hyper surface foliations of branchial space that are computationally bounded relative to the underlying structure. And so they have to do this massive equivalencing. And then they perceive they have a linear threat of history. So they believe that they're continuous. And I was like trying to, you know, ask decent questions. But it was definitely tough hearing that for the first time. Okay. So there's an issue. Everybody understands the issue in physics now is we have quantum field theory,

which is terrific at doing what it can do. And we have general relativity, which is terrific at what it can do. Every test of general relativity that science has been able to cook up, it continues to perform perfectly. Every test, it passes because one failure, and we have to redo the physics. Quantum-till theory is the same. We're blessed with all sorts of electronics and gadgets and other things in our life now that would not have been possible without the quantum revolution in the 20th century. And the man kind of at the heart of all of it is Albert Einstein.

So Einstein did a differential equation that equates the material in the universe to how it curves the universe around it. David Hilbert did it a different way. The big development in the 19th century was one of the big developments was Will Garnsian mechanics. So you take a thing called the action, and physics bodies always follow the principle of least actions. They take the path of least actions to do something. And Hilbert formulated the problem of gravity is a principle of least action and got to the answer by a different path than Einstein. Do you think that the principles of least action or Vermont's principle where, you know, light seems to, you know, almost follow an optimal path between two points,

that points to some sort of information theoretic underpinning to physics, where the whole thing is sort of optimized in this kind of computational way. So I think through, we now understand that all this matter and energy around us is governed by quantum mechanics, and the description of it is in quantum field theory.

So quantum information theory is now kind of, all over the place and burgeoning and growing hugely. And eventually we're going to find what John Archibald Wheeler said to me and many others. You met him? I'll tell you that story at a minute. I want to hear that. That's amazing. They said, you're not going to believe how lucky I was.

Okay, so he said it from bit. And what he meant was that which constitutes the universe all around us are actually bits of information that describes. their configuration and the state they're in. Yeah. So that's what it from bit went. Yeah, but I never understand that on a lower level. Like, he'll be like the collapse of the wave function breaks down into like a bunch of yes, no questions.

And so you get it from bid or whatever. Yeah. What is that exactly mean? Like, because I think about, you know, yeah, it does feel like, you know, whatever eigenstate gets chosen is like, you know, an on-off switch or something. Yep. But like, how is it a series of yes-state? no questions that gets to wave function collapse. Okay, so, well, people don't really, don't really

yet have a really great theory for the wave, wave function. There are some, there's some guesses, there's some theories that, to me, have not yet been proven. I have a theory. Okay, well, it's always good to have a theory because that describes a theory should allow you to describe an experiment that will falsify what you've, what you're describing. So, but, but some kind of, of interaction with or observation of a quantum state collapses the wave function. And all that means is you take all this possible states and you collapse all these possible states, which is a huge amount of information to one. Pick one state out of all the possibilities and doing this observation collapses to that one state.

You can't predict ahead of time what that state will be. you can predict it probabilistically so far as we know, and that's the only way. And that's an Evarician perspective, is that, right? What's that? The Evarician hypothesis for the reduction of the wave function? There's some hypotheses. I'm not convinced. What is that?

I'm not convinced. It is the observer effect, collapsing the wave function, which is heavily referenced by a lot of these simulation theory universes, so in line with RIS's... I'm not convinced that any of them are, exactly right. So Everett was a Wheeler's student and Ever did the multiverse. And that seems to be growing in popularity, which gets rid of the wave collapse problem. Yeah, well, in this, in Everett's case, you would say wave function collapse never actually occurs and you just get universe branching.

The universe is branching off. Yeah. And so that's, apparently it's perfectly good mathematically. To me, I don't know how we'll ever test the hypothesis that the universe is a multiverse. But apparently, others think we can. I'm hoping an experiment will be constructed that will allow us to say, the only possible way we could have gotten this experimental result is if there was another universe that braced off ours and is still impacting it through some mechanism. It's the mechanism that we will have to find and test.

And Sabina Hossentfelder has recently argued that you can't test it, that it's an untestable hypothesis, and sort of therefore a non-scientic hypothesis. Samina is a hypercritical, fantastic scientist who has had to give up on her academic career because she's angered too many people, which is I hate because she's very, very capable. Yeah.

Extremely capable, theoretical physicist, but she doesn't suffer fools gladly. How did you meet John Wheeler? Ah, that's interesting. So I lived in New Jersey for a period of time, worked for an entity that worked for the intelligence community. And my wife was a nurse in a retirement community. And so she came home one day. She says, we have a new resident in the retirement community.

And she says, it's the same name on a bunch of your books. And I went, John Wheeler? And she pointed to us, is John Wheeler? And she said, yes. I said, well, take my books out there and see if you can get him to autograph them and ask him if I can come and visit him. So he autographed my books and invited me to come over. So I went over and had tea with him and met his wife.

And he had a house. There's a retirement village where you were guaranteed to be there all the way through your final hospitalization. It was that kind of retirement village. And he had a place and I went over and visited him and became a regular visitor. And we... No way. Yeah, regular. What were those interactions like?

Oh, they were fantastic. Yeah, look, I would ask questions. He would ask me questions. We would, he would tell, he explained to me the parts of his big, thick gravitation book that I couldn't understand, even though I had a lot of differential geometry. Yeah. Wow. That was interesting. But I occasionally just was his showfinding.

his chauffeur. I would take him up to the Institute for Advanced Studies, Coral Princeton University, so he could hear her talk and hear those talks. And it was just amazing. Can you imagine? That's incredible. It was just amazing sitting in the back of the room watching these people kowtow to Wheeler. But the other thing was, where I worked, a member of the advisory board for that place that I worked, Freeman Dyson was on it. So I got to interact with them. And I went to church with him on. Can he say where he worked? Yeah, it was the Institute for Defense Analysis. Okay. Yeah. And Freeman Dyson was involved in that. Yeah, he was one of the scientific advisory board members. Can he say what you did? Yeah, I worked on communications

problems for the United States government because it was the Institute for Defense Analysis, Center for Communications for Church. Wow. Well, so as you know, I, you know, used to work with a guy named Eric Weinstein. Yes. He's become convinced that there's like a lineage of secret science in the United States. And he would have, Wheeler would be at the center of it. It would be like John Wheeler, Freeman Dyson, Bryce DeWitt, Hugh Everett, these names would be involved in such a program. Do you believe that there are elements of science that are not open source

and that have been classified by the U.S. government? Not only do I believe it, I know the mechanism. Because the Atomic Energy Act has the ability, so long as you brush up next to it at all, of classifying new physics from birth if it's viewed as touching those fields. Own it all. Pay off your home, travel for life, drive a Ferrari.

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Only at Yamava, celebrating its 40th anniversary. U-N. Details at yamava.com must be 21-20. Please gamble responsibly. Monopoly is a trademark of Hasbro. Hasbro is not a sponsor of this promotion. So one example of that would be, and we're going to get into UFOs and how you got into that, but the special definition of nuclear material in the Atomic Energy Act. You read the definition of special nuclear material in the Public Atomic Energy Act in 1954.

It basically states any material that releases any kind of atomic energy. That would be retrieved crash material. It's kind of a sneaky way. No, it is. If you actually read the Atomic Energy Act, if something is not a nuke, but it has radiological energy coming off it, you know, alpha, beta, decay, whatever.

Same secrecy. So it is, in my opinion, given Oppenheimer status, up until he lost his clearance, it is impossible, given what we know now, that he did not know what was going on because of the initial,

makeup of the people dealing with the UFO problem at the top national security level, especially after the 1952 flyover of Washington, where Truman lost his lunch over it. I mean, he really went nuts. Is that true? Because I've heard there's an aviation journalist named Curtis Peebles who said that Truman was on the phone with Andrew J. Repultly ran Blue Book at the time because Truman was so freaked out about the Washington flyover. Is that right in your opinion?

It is, in my opinion, it is completely true. People have told me that. I have not seen evidence of this. The Joint Chief of Staff talk to you or concern you about the unknown and the unidentified flying out. Oh, yes. We discussed it at every conference that we had with the military, and they never had been, never were able to make me a concrete report on. You have any three hundred subjects, sir?

No, I haven't, I haven't anything on the subject. There's always things like that going on. They're flying saucers and they've had other things. But anyway, I always thought it was probably pretty good because Peebles was a UFO skeptic, but he still thought that Truman freaked out about the UFO flyover. He did. And I believe that Oppenheimer and other people in the Manhattan Project were the original secret keepers and the natural people to call to look in to watch if one crash.

Well, if you believe David Grush, then they literally set up the secrecy. I mean, he's not, I do too. He's on record with me saying, you know, we were like, if you could meet a lot of, anybody in history, who would you meet? And he goes, I would probably ask Sarbacher, Oppenheimer, and be like, what was your thought process in the 40s and 50s, you know, scrolling this away? I mean, besides overlaying the Manhattan Project secrecy. Because Oppenheimer was the one who created the classification that included the UFO stuff. Oh, all those guys. And it was one of the most interesting parts of your interview with him,

because I totally agree with. And I'm on record on Twitter, Facebook and other places saying people keep pointing a finger at the CIA and they're not looking at where the secrets have to be kept. I kept pouring the DOE. I kept asking about why people weren't looking at DOE. I kept asking why people weren't looking at the Battelle Institute. And a friend of mine who is a deep researcher in all this, she was also jumping up and down about Battelle. and that's Linda Thompson, who's a premier researcher in the UAP area. Yeah. Well, speaking of the DOE, you know they funded the Human Genome Project. Yes.

So do you think that connects at all? If they somehow have a greater ontological truth around, you know, that we're not alone, that aliens exist. I was asked by AARPA to take a look at. You want to just tell the audience what AIA is? ARPA is the Intelligence Community Advanced Research Project Agency. So it was formed, it was put together after DNI came into being, to be the equivalent of DARPA for the intelligence community. And the current deputy director, DNI, Stacey Dixon,

was the director when I was asked, could I take a look at using CRISPR Kast9 and coding information into DNA? Wow. Yeah. So I decided not to put together a proposal. I was too busy with other things and doing some work I can't even discuss for them. But they asked you about putting... Well, yeah, some people in my team at Hume Center at Virginia Tech did put it in a proposal and I think worked on.

What year was this? It would have been 2013 or 14. Wow. These kind of novel data storage techniques are all over different media, right? DNA, for instance, crystal, those typical things. We're talking about this on the way over here, the notion of encoding DNA with information, I mean, how many layers can you go down into that?

Particularly with Christopher Cass 9. There is tons, tons of space, terabytes of data you can put on DNA that we don't know what it's used for. So it's in the quote, you can use the quote, junk DNA to store. all kinds. Well, that's just fascinating. Yeah, you can store semantic information on DNA. It just takes a while to retreat because it needs to be stored very cold. You got to read it off. You'd have to

figure out the RNA to read it off. But when I was talking to Lou Elizondo, I said, if you were an alien race and maybe you, in the instance of getting wiped out, wanted to save some monument or, you know, some really important, you know, time capsule for a future civilization that might, you know, you know, encounter you, what would you do? And I was suggesting all sorts of things. I was like, would you put an object in the Lagrangian point that, like, you know, is sort of, you know, just hovering, you know, right next to the earth? You know, there are all sorts of things you could come up with, build a pyramid, whatever.

And he said something really interesting. If you were going to make something truly enduring, truly enduring, truly enduring, there's really only two ways to do it. You either put something out in deep space where the chances are of it coming into contact with something or minimal or biology, genetics. Because genetics is a fingerprint. And that will continue as long as the species survives and finds other places to live. So will that message.

And you can put a lot. And the beauty about DNA is that it self-replicates. So that message, in essence, if you code it right, could be there as long as the species is survived. And that freaked me out. I was like, whoa. If I were a betting man, I would bend. that the intelligence community has figured out how to use Christopher Cast 9 to transport intelligence that's been gathered in the person of an intelligence officer already. Whether they do it or not, I don't have any idea, but I am convinced that it is possible.

Whoa, wait, so you're saying the person is a storage mechanism and can walk right through any security system, undetected is carrying all that information in their person. Do you think it would be local or systemic? Like, could it be a fingernail? Could it be a hair? I don't know. I am insufficiently familiar with the technology to know how much you could localize it. But you can store the information to tremendous amounts in the DNA of a human.

Whoa. So it's just fascinating. So it's almost like we're walking hard drives or something. What would be the practical use of that? Do you have any examples? So I wanted to get out all the schematics for and construction documents for every classified projects as being done by Russia or China. I could encode all of it probably on one or two humans and walk it out. Whoa.

That is true. That's what I think is possible. I don't know that it's being done, but I think it's possible technically. You can remotely sense that? No. No. No, no. In other words, it's like the human is a one-time pad.

Yeah. You have to know the humans carrying it before you even know to read it. Yeah. It's like the equivalent of something like the moral equivalent of a one-time pad. How'd you get into UFOs? Okay, so I had some interesting experiences growing up. They're kind of inexplicable. And then I woke up one day when I was very young.

before I went to school, walked into where my mother and her friend were visiting with each other, and they were drinking coffee, and I went over to a bookcase, pulled a book out, opened it up, and started reading it to them. And I had never spent a day in school because I was three years old. And so it was just wild. And I didn't really remember it until my mother and her best friend later reminded me of it. I didn't remember it, but my mother, because I just knew I always could read. And my mother and her friend told me the story repeatedly.

So it came kind of apocrypha, if you will. You think maybe it was primordial knowledge or something? I have no idea. I'm not going to guess. The gods or the aliens or whatever gave me a knowledge. And so that kind of went on until I was 10 years old, and I'm bloomed when I was 10 years old. I built my own telescope from parts.

I became an amateur radio operator and built my own equipment. I memorized Gray's Anatomy from cover to cover, knew the functions. So you were tested. I was tested by a doctor who didn't believe me. And he came to a Thanksgiving dinner at my parents' home and told me, they told me to stand on the hearth of the fireplace and be grilled by this doctor. and he couldn't stunt me. So he knew I knew where his anatomy.

He's covered and covered. Do you have like a perfect, idetic memory? I did. So it's gotten worse with age. Uh-huh. But it's still good. It's still very, very good. Uh-huh.

But it's not perfect. Uh-huh. So, and everyone thought I was going to be a doctor. That was just the going-in assumption. So it went off to college with my girlfriend from high school. We went to the same place. That was how I chose where to go. where she was going.

And so I picked her up. The first month at school, I picked her up on a Friday to drive us home for the weekend. And it was two and a half hour drive. And about two and a half hours into it, suddenly we found ourselves in the middle of nowhere. Didn't know where we were, didn't know how we got there. And eventually, looking at our watch,

we figured out that somehow we had been asleep for an hour hour and a half. So this was a classic example of missing time. I had no idea what to call it. I had no idea what happened. I just knew her mother was going to be upset. So I quickly got her home and apologized to her mother saying we were talking so much, I took a wrong turn and but we're here now and I apologize. Have you gotten a hypnotic regression? I have. I have, but not the kind you're talking about. I want one. Interesting. So what but? But, A month later, I left that college, stopped wanting to be a doctor. I became a mathematician and an engineer and went to a technical school.

And that takes my whole life, whatever that experience was. Wow. It's just, I don't, I can't explain it. I don't have a reason for it. I'm just telling you the outcome, because I don't know what actually happened during that time. To the extent you can talk about it, what was your government experience? I did work for NSA and the CIA and NRO, et cetera, for depending on what was needed for nearly 30 years. Mainly math and engineering.

Math and engineering and occasionally lots of computer science and embedded programming to do things they needed doing. But it was always I had developed something that they needed and the need would arise and they would ask me to implement it. and put it in the field. Did you ever run into UFO stuff there? No. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Later, when I decided to leave that, doing that work every day

and become a founding member of the Hume Center for National Security and Technology at Virginia Tech, the rumors began to run around. And I was still well-connected all through the community. And people told me about this UFO stuff. being floated around, and I saw some of it, pictures, some that have not come out in the open. Really? Yeah, some that have not been shown.

And some of them are, like, wild. Really? Yeah, and I don't want to get anybody in trouble, so I just don't tell any details other than they're, they're, there, the one is a massive triangle above the water. I mean, this thing is huge. So, uh, uh, could we get in touch with the person with the photo and try to, I don't know that we can. Do you ever interface with the Office of Scientific Intelligence or with the Office of Global Access? A director of the Office of Global Access was a member of the advisory board for the Hume Center and later has done consulting with and advises Hawkeye 360, which is a company I founded. Wow, that's amazing.

She's quite bright. I mean, Hawkeye, let me give you one example. Yeah. Hawkeyes has on its advisory board, Tish Long, which was the first female head of a three-letter agency. She was a director of the NGA. Wow. And it's Hawkeye's big contracts are with NRO and NGA. Can he explain what Hawkeye 360 does?

Yeah. So Hawkeye is a geospatial sensor. What do I mean by that? One of the inputs to geo-spacial intelligence is somebody is transmitting a signal on the ground. Where is it? After you figure out where it is, can you tell us about it? So Hawkeye developed satellite sensors and got them lost first on SpaceX and now on rocket labs regularly from Wallops. and they orbit the Earth and using the received signal and motion

and time difference of arrival or multiple sensors does some math using highly accurate clocks and the position of the satellites over the Earth and other things to derive the location on the Earth as they pass over. So the intelligence is, here's the signal, It's located right there. And now we can look at the externals and say we think it's this.

And that's handed off to the intelligence period. We don't know why they want it because they give us a tasking and the equipment does it automatically now. So it's a multi-sensory analysis. Oh, a multi-sensory analysis of where are things transmitting from on the ground? And that is a very valuable input to intelligence. You can only imagine. You founded that company.

Yes. And my name are on the platform. patents that make it work. That's incredible. It's a hosted payload on the vehicles that it goes on? No. It's just software package. No. It's we build the satellites. The whole bus. The whole bus.

Satellite and bus. And what's in it are things we developed at Hawkeye 360s. Now the way I did Hawkeye 360 is I didn't want to give up my day job and go work at 105 hours a week. So the deal we

worked out with the VCs is we got a small percentage of stock and we helped them develop the ideas and help them get the patents, help them defend the patent process, which we did successfully, help them hire talent that we knew from all of our experience and from our teaching and other things. So they got young talent and senior talent brought it in and they took the company after I ended my year and a half of consulting. So I became a stockholder after that. I never. was involved in the day-of-day operations because I didn't want to be. And have you guys ever detected UFOs?

I don't know whether we have or not, but, but, as I told you earlier, I went to SCU in 2022 in Huntsville, the SEU meeting. What does that see you stand? It's the Society for Studying UAP, Phnomus scientifically, and Scientific Coalition for the study of UAP. and the leadership is in Huntsville and other places, but the regular meetings have been, the in-person meetings have been held in Huntsville

near Marshall Space Flight Center, et cetera. So I went there in 2022, and people associated with Space Force from three-letter agencies came off to me and talked to me about applying Hawkeye abilities to just looking for UAP signals on the ground. By then I had given up my security clearance

so I couldn't help them directly, so I pointed them to the right people inside of Hawkeye-360 that could help them. I don't know what they did because I'm not pretty to it. How would you guess you might detect UAP? Ah, okay. So let's suppose that the government knows

that UAPs are using, or emitting a certain transmitted frequency. And they get some inkling that the thing is over there somewhere. Hawkeye will figure out by looking for that frequency exactly where they are. Like hypothetically, 1.6 gigahertz? 1.6 gigahertz at interesting places I am certain has been looked at by Hawkeye 360. That's fascinating. Very interesting. But I don't know it for a fact, because I'm...

not on the inside anymore. Sure. Did you ever interface with any kind of centers that work on atomic stuff or, you know, anything like that? I worked in Sandia National Labs. Okay. For in 1976 and 77, after I got done with my initial mathematics degree, it was fun. I learned a lot, but it became quickly clear, especially in the 70s. If you wanted respect and to be a leader, you had to have to.

have a PhD. So I left there and went and got my PhD and applied mathematics from Brown University. What was your PhD thesis? Non-linear filtering and how to solve the non-linear filtering problem by using approximations and perturbation theory to get nearby things to linear. So you can use linear, but then you can perturb it and get non-linear looks at it. So it allows you to feel. figure out something about the nonlinear behavior, it's the same thing, it's Hidden Markov model. It's the same thing. It's the same thing. Except it's dynamical systems where this might be a rocket emitting a signal for a UFO emitting a signal and you're trying to track in or you're trying to

demodulate a signal. I'll give you an example. This is a great, the first application I ever did. A person that was very highly placed at the jet propelled, propulsion laboratories, figured out what I had done for my PhD thesis. So he asked permission if I could be allowed to work on the computers that we had at the Institute, which were provided to us by the intelligence community, to work on that signal. And the signal was the Russians and the French sent. a probe to Halley's Comet. The probe on its

way did a gravitational assist fly by a Venus. While it was near Venus, it dropped two balloon probes into the atmosphere of Venus. Now, the Soviets, they did a great job with that, but they made an

assumption which turned out to be false. They assumed how fast the temperature in the atmosphere would be conducted inside to where the thermometer was because what it does is if it got too hot, it figured it was getting too low,

so it would increase the helium in the balloon to lift it up. So the plows did this in the atmosphere until the batteries ran out. But the first entry, it went too deep. And the temperature got really high, and the winds were really rough. And so the signal was distorted by Doppler and other things, But even though tracking a signal is a non-linear process, people have linear capabilities.

My process does non-linear things. So I coded it up on the supercomputer. We demodulated the signal, and they got transmissions back from Venus that showed us the data. So we knew we had gotten it right. And we literally took a piece of paper. and rode down the zeros and ones, on a piece of paper, flew it out to the jet propulsion laboratories,

they took the paper from us, walked it into another room, and gave it to the Soviet scientists. Whoa. Because it was interesting data from Venus, and how do I know it was interesting? Well, a few years later, I was called and told to come down

to the chief scientist's office at NSA. And I went down there, and they told it was about tech transfer. This was during the Clinton era, when technology transfer was mandated by executive order, if it was no longer critical to the nation's security to keep it secret. So this technique I'm telling you about was a thing they wanted me to come and talk about. And I didn't understand why, but I went down. I walked into the room, and I knew why. because in the room was maybe the most famous Venusian planet scientist that ever lived.

And he said that once this story would told, you billions and billions of people would think it was a great thing the NSA had done it. Carl Sagan was sitting in the room. No way. Yeah, Sagan was sitting in the office. So what did they figure out? They figured out that the transmissions that they got gave them details on the clouds that were in the atmosphere that they never thought they were going to get because they never intended it to go that deep. So the data frames coming back or telling them the data collected by the scientific fishermen's on board

and Sagan learned how it happened and how it was done and who did what in that meeting. Wow. So it's clear that Sagan was somehow like super deep. I always thought he was deep on the inside. But I don't mind until he's passed. I don't mind. He had a contractor green badge with a picture on him. You don't get that if you're casual. He did not have a casual relationship. You think he was in tow. He had to have to have that badge. He was a consultant. Well, he had a top secret clearance for sure in the, uh, in the, I believed early 70s late 60s because he was or you know it was maybe a little before that but he was he was working with the Air Force and

It was a project called A119 and they were considering nuking the moon as a show of force Yes, the Soviets and he was like the main consultant on that and it was interesting too he grew up very interested in UFOs He would write about it his diaries he would debate his mentor an astronomer. He would constantly say you know I think this needs you know more credence and and we should look into this. And then, boom, he just flips into being this dogmatic anti-U.F. I believe, I believe, without knowing it's a fact. Here's my belief. He bumped up against the program and was told he needed a change as to.

He must have. Because then he had a contractor badge for the national security agency. Well, he also goes on to, you know, write contact in pale blue dot. And if you watch contact, that, you know, and you're into UFO. I suppose. It's very disclosure. It's disclosure through fiction in a way that's palatable for people. And then if you think about the book, The Demon Haunted World, which ironically is sort of, I think it has a blurb by like, you know, Richard Dawkins or something. And, you know, the demons are supposed to be like, you know, fundamentalist or like overly zealous thoughts that humans have. But in fact, just you take the demon haunted world as this sort of like double entendre.

and maybe that represents Sagan's worldview a lot more and he just believes in the UFO thing. Yeah, I don't have direct knowledge, but kind of nothing else makes sense. So you're probably, you know, I was talking with Jack earlier, and one of the reasons we were so excited to have you on is that you're probably one of the deepest people

when it comes to really trying to discover kind of ontological truth in the UFO question. And so, yeah, do you have the working theory? as to how these UFOs fly where they're from, that sort of thing? So I'm into the physics and I'm pursuing the physics. Yep. But I did not do physics all my life as my avocation. So I am relearning physics, consuming it rapidly,

learning from people who tweak my interest like Eric Weinstein and the people that work. working at Wolfram, et cetera, and Paise and Sarfati and all these. But they have one thing in common. Every single one of them is trying to figure out some manipulation of the stress energy tensor in Einstein's field equations that when you fiddle this over here, that goes into the machinery that goes on this side of the equation, and you get manipulation of gravity out of it.

All of them are doing that. That's amazing. All of them. It's all that's what they're doing. So the question is, how do you manipulate that? That's a good question. Because can I just set it up for the audience? It's prosaically understood, even in conventional physics,

that the stress energy tensor in Einstein's field equations, which govern, you know, general relativity, should theoretically affect gravity, but you need, you know, so high that we just can't produce in like, you know, normal prosaic means or whatever through electromagnetism or any other way. And so do you think that there's an engineering mechanism to amplify energy to that extent? Here is any, here is circumstantial evidence that it's been done.

Your recent interview was with Pais. Yeah. I didn't believe a word he said for a year. Yep. Just didn't believe it at all. So I haven't seen your interview, but I began to believe it when I figured out on my own that all of these people were working on the same stuff. I'm in the private email exchange that Jack Scherfadi conducts while he's doing his work every day,

and he keeps insisting that there's a low power version of manipulating the stress energy tensor that will give you the necessary things on the output of the equation. His idea is manipulating the speed of light so that it's much slower and so it's more easily attainable than other things. So here's what I think is going on. Pais says that if you can manipulate the quantum vacuum, you can trap it between two metal plates and get some energy out or put a huge electromagnetic field in a tiny, tiny plate,

So there's a huge gradient. And the universe is constantly, constantly creating out of magical mathematics and the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle, virtual particles. So you care about, can I take that vacuum with its particles and do anything useful with it? Pais has said, I can subject the vacuum to tremendous electromagnetic. magnetic fields. And in so doing, take virtual particles, pull them out, and make them real particles, and create exotic matter that will now be useful to bend space and time.

So you can take his little piece of magic back ear, which is using electromagnetism, and make a warp drive out of it. Now, what Pais does not do in his past. So we're now we're having to do inference under the assumption that the patents are real and true. That what's been done is figured out something about manipulation of the vacuum that we don't know a lot about you. But Paise has handed it with the Navy's bulldozer. They ordered the patent office. Do you have any ideas as to how you might engineer that sort of level of electric maintenance?

Yeah, I'll tell you what, I'm going to guess. Because I don't know. I don't know, but I'm going to guess. They gave him some crash material. And he figured out how they write down the equations for it. Really? And it's a strong case because there are three patents that are all really compelling on their own, but they don't work on them.

They need each other. They need each other. They needed each other. This piece, this produces the input. This takes the input and does something with it. You need all of that for it to work. The only thing that makes sense to me is the Navy wanted it worked on. They took it into a lab where a Pais worked,

and he figured out how to make it work. And why would the Navy care? I tell you why the Navy would care. I'll tell you exactly why. Because the Chinese care. And the Navy is the, military entity that will take on the Chinese if they started acting ugly over Taiwan, et cetera. Ambition comes in all shapes and sizes. At First Citizens Bank, we roll with your goals because we're

built for what you're building. Fit for your ambition for Citizens Bank. They want an advantage over the Chinese, the Chinese PLA, People's Liberation Army, and we know for a fact they are working on. on reverse engineering. They have down craft. We know it. Can, can, what's your smoking gun that the Chinese have a program? Because this is always something that, you know,

you hear, and I've heard it from a lot of very credible people, but I don't hear a lot of first principles, like, you know, this is where they're working on stuff. There is a ton of evidence all over the place that they are inundated by, uh, UAPs that's shutting down airports and people are putting it up on telegram. You can see it. And I guarantee you the Chinese are shooting stuff down.

The Chinese famously, of course, appropriate IP from other developed countries, particularly in aerospace and defense. What's your sense of whether they got their first start by siphoning off of our program versus their own crash at you? My opinion is that in order to prevent accidental intercontinental ballistic missile exchange, we revealed some things to both the former Soviet Union and China. And you can see that we did this in the Nixon-Breshnev treaty. Yeah, 1971.

It's written. It's written. The red phone was invented to stop UFOs from starting thermonuclear war. Yeah. Yeah, it's wild. It's just hidden in plain sight. Right in plain sight. In the 1971 salt talks, it's like, we want to make sure that the Soviets don't mistake these unknowns in their airspace for acts of American aggression.

And it would be a huge part of detente. And it's literally written in a official documents. We don't have a treaty with China, but to think we would not want the same protections is foolish. And we know for a fact because of the balloon causing a disruption that we have a problem. red phone to China because the Secretary of Defense and the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, Millie, said that they pick up the phone, they call their equivalence in the People's Liberation Army. And that's what the red phone was for from the beginning to stop mistakes from being made. Deconfliction line. Deconfliction line. We have deconfliction lines. We've even seen deconfliction

lines work in current events. So the Russians, through their profits, proxy militias attacked a bunch of Americans in Syria, and we called them on the deconfliction line. Of course, they denied their existence or having anything to do with them. So they fired some stuff that our Marines and other people that were with them, and we called in the Armada. And we wasted all of them in hellfire for about 15 minutes until there was nothing left. So we know the deconfliction that still exists. And we've seen America act on things, but only after deconfliction is done.

And if their people are being attacked and they go through the process of deconfliction, before they will defend their people, you know it has to exist for protection against inadvertent insanity. It's still just this crazy black box, as with all Chinese politics, as to how much progress they've made, where they're at, you know. Well, the first thing you know is the government of the United States, we will constantly work to gain access through any means. Humant, technical, whatever, on what it is the Chinese are doing. So let's suppose we get an inkling through a leak or we get a break and we get some kind of intelligence that says they're doing this over here. And so this can only be this. And they inadvertently display a saucer to our overhead satellite systems. I mean, people make mistakes.

Oh, yeah. But number one source of intelligence is human fallibility. Yep. Holy, the number one source. 99% of intelligence is open source or human fallibility. It's a really crazy sort of topic. You have all these figures pop up also when it comes to kind of, you know, secret science that Jack and I have spoken about.

So you have Townsend Brown, Tesla, Ning Lee, Eugene Plokletnoff. You know, I can name a ton of these people, Miguel Alcubieri. Do you think once you take the governor, so to speak, off of physics, you end up with kind of like a plethora of like really exciting warp drive, Fast Than Light, you know, EM drive options? I think there will be a ton of work done. But I think the way, I think the government wants to protect. both the people, their reputations, and the institutions that have done things and that they

don't want known and would harm the institutions and the people if it were to become known. So the thing I would expect the government to do is as cold disclosure gets going, and we learn that anti-gravity and propulsion are being worked on, that suddenly some people will be allowed to do it without being stomped on in, in... corporate startup and whatever. That has to be the case. Because assuming that Russia and China have this stuff, if the average talented STEM student in America

isn't aware of any of these frameworks, then we're at a massive disadvantage. Yeah, so let's close off what we started before. I want to finish the thought. Yeah. The Navy would have Paiz do it if they wanted exotic propulsion so they'd have a massive advantage over the Chinese because they're going to be fighting

in the Chinese pond with their Navy. And the Chinese are going to throw everything they can at the Navy. Yeah, or the piecing. And they want an advantage. Or it's like a limited hangout where it's like we're going to give you, you know, it's like the cicada thing, or it's like we're going to give you a little bit of info. If you're smart enough, you can figure out the info and then you get initiated into the program. Yeah.

And I think that's probably what's going on here because, you know, I've become this amateur historian of Townsend Brown. He went to Hyman Rickover, who was head of the nuclear. Navy, I think in the late 50s, early 60s. And he was like, look, I'm working on this, these, I'm getting all these crazy gravitational effects. And Johnson Brown had been in Navy Seaman, you know, decades earlier. And Hyman Rickover goes, oh, don't waste your time. We're already on it. Like, we know all about this. And so, you know, it's pretty clear. And I'm, you know, in touch with some Navy Special Warfare guys as well. And like, I think the Navy

knows a lot about this stuff. I think they're very on top of it. So it's like, how would you let the cat out of the bag without, you know, tipping your hat off to your adversary, but how would you let certain STEM students who are qualified in America know, and you might come out with these three disparate patents that you can piece together if you're qualified enough? I think that the changing milieu for educational institutions and what people choose to go into has been changed dramatically by modern society. people don't go into those fields and sufficient numbers for us to get the talent we need to do this in a major way,

given that it costs so much to go to a university that people want to have a high-income job when they get out so they can pay back their loans quickly. It's just the system is biasing people away from doing what's necessary to make a big, We built the modern world because our university system was the best there is, and we've hobbled it by making people go on debt. Yeah, it's horrible. It feels like we're living in late stage, decadent capitalism or something where the smartest people are working on the dumbest things. Very best mathematicians are going to finance. Yeah, yeah.

Serbian quant. And I know all these young people out here, they're awesome. They're really smart, and they're rationally playing casino. games with crypto. They're like on Solana investing in meme coins and I don't blame them because that's the way you kind of, you know, leap frog everybody else. It's the way you get the huge bump. And meanwhile, like, you know, our, the world of atoms and engineering is completely stagnated over the last 50 years. And that's as far as, you know, our national competitiveness. That's way more important vector. So let's suppose I wanted to cover up gravity. So I did see all this.

unbelievable stuff that Wheeler got started down in North Carolina with two industrialists supporting him. And all of these people came to Wheeler re-regenning gravitational research. And his first speaker was Richard Feynman doing an approximate quantization of gravitational as his talk. It's a great model so long as it's not super high energy physics or super-gravation gravitational physics. Yeah.

It works. It simply works in the regime in which the approximation works. Feynman did that for Wheeler. Why would Feynman do it for Wheeler? Wheeler was Feynman's graduate advisor. Yeah. He wrote his PhD thesis for Wheeler. Do you think both were associated with aerospace?

For, yes. Yeah. Okay, so anyway, but all these aerospace people, for people who were working on gravitation, etc., would go to these these conferences and interact, including Townsend Brown and Lou Whitney and Whitten and those others. And they got someplace it looks like and didn't. Just they went, they went dark. Yeah. Lewis Whitten didn't do anything else in gravitation.

And T. Townsend Brown went to work for the military industrial complex and never published another thing about his work. And somebody started grimly. up string theory and the government threw money at it. So money is what causes research to happen. Why? Because it's publisher parish and you've got to have money to do the research. How did the government throw money at... National Science Foundation funding, Department of Defense Direct funding,

DAPA funding, etc. Do you think string theory itself is sort of a limited hangout for more real physics? No, I think string theory is they know it's wrong and it's... aiming them away by, quote, bribing all the people into doing what they have to do anyway, which is do interesting work to get promotions, to have a lab. If you want a vital core national security, you know, program, like, you know, why wouldn't you, why would you deflect? Why would you, why would you get all these?

Secret topologists in a room at a blackboard in the basement of Lockheed somewhere, or are they in no way? Yeah. I think we had, we had enough stuff. We've gotten from other things that we used it. to recreate what could be done, and we didn't care about all these stories about people working on anti-gravity stuff and getting stomped on and or their life ended?

I just think there are too many of these things telling us they don't want people to go down the route they were going in the 1950s. Well, it's really fascinating history because the establishment of quantum gravity, which led to string theory, was in 1957 at the UNC, North Carolina Chapel Hill Conference, headed up by Agnew Vonson.

He had Lewis Whitten there from Martin Corporation pre-Locky merger, from their anti-gravity division, RAS. The whole thing is spawned. No one goes to Hank's for his spreadsheets. They go for a darn good pizza. Lately, though, the shop's been quiet. So Hank decides to bring back the $1 slice. He asks co-pilot in Microsoft Excel to look at his sales and costs

Help him see if you can afford it. Co-pilot shows Hank where the money's going and which little extras make the dollar slice work. Now, Hank says, line out the door. Hank makes the pizza. Co-Pilot handles the spreadsheets. Learn more at M365 copilot.com slash work. Answered by Wright Airfield.

Right. And then Agnew Bonson, simultaneously to doing this kind of top theoretical physics conference is funding Townsend Brown. And so there's this question of, like, is Townsend Brown doing the vital stuff kind of in the back room where they're doing the more kind of theoretical work and maybe, you know, getting some things wrong or groping in the dark.

And the one thing that Eric Weinstein has pointed out about this conference, which I find fascinating, is an Austrian mathematician named Herman Bondi. Yes, Bondi, yes. Bondi asks this really interesting question about, he goes, but what about, what if you remove the positivity conditions in Einstein's field equations?

And don't you get all sorts of weird anomalous effects in physics that involve negative mass or negative energy? Which is all you need to mention, manipulate the stressed energy tensor so you can warp space time. There you go. He kind of gets laughed out of the room or marginalized, or maybe he asked the wrong question that was a little too provocative

for some of the sponsors of the conference. And then you end up with Al Cubieri, this Mexican physicist, University of Mexico PhD, who solves Einstein's equations for faster than light travel. And then you get Sunny White, who is a, you know, propulsion's engineer at NASA, who is working with negative energy, negative mass, when it comes to faster than light travel. And so you really have to ask the question, did it all start with these positivity conditions, this sort of governor that was placed on Einstein, where if you take

the governor off, you get all sorts of really anomalous, interesting effects. And maybe Townsend Brown was doing this in the back room. Here's what I, lots and lots of things in science are the discovered serendipitously. And I think Townsend Brown and others accidentally excited the vacuum field and got weird stuff out of it and saw gravitational anomalies. Once you see that, you can't go back. Once I saw a UFO, I couldn't go back. Yep. Okay.

So it's just, I believe these people saw it, and they were determined to spend. their lives figuring it out. Well, we talked about multiple tech trees in the physical phenomena, the non-physical phenomenon. What for you is like the most convincing evidence that there are multiple ways of doing this in the... Okay, so Al-Qibir is one way, but that's not the only way. The other way is because he...

Because of the amount of negative energy required, I believe Sarpati is saying, no, no, no, no. You can do fast-foot-the-light travel with a battery. And his work is totally different. It's low energy. Has another scalar field involved in his equations, as his modification to Einstein's field equations. I don't yet know of an experiment that says Sarfadi is correct, except he's been on this problem for 50 years.

When he first claimed he had a UFO or non-human intelligence, He's been on it forever. And he was one of the great young physicists out in California that wound up being amongst the hippies that saved physics. He is one of those guys. And his career has been very non-traditional, but he was a student up at Cornell with some of the best. He had a terrific education, and he is capable.

And he's irascible and hard to get him to explain stuff for normal human beings to understand. I posted an eight-hour interview with him, and it was not enough time to get to the heart of the issue. Right. He doesn't like me very much. I don't know why, but... You're not a PhD scientist. That's what he said. You're not a physicist.

I'm not a physicist. He's a snob. Jack is hard-nosed. Jack is hard-nosed scientific snob. But he also feels he's been treated badly by those who are in the mainstream of physics. He has some uniquely incisive ideas. Yes. It's kind of, you know, he's over here on the very low-energy plog side of things.

With Pice over here on the very high-energy side of. Yes, yeah. Swingers, a lot of people don't realize that everybody knows that Finner was involved in quantum electrodynamics. But Schwinger also won the Nobel Prize at the same time as refinement in Tominaga. And Schwinger's version of quantum electrodynamics is being used by Paise in the implementation of stress energy tension and manipulation to get the stuff we need to engineer through the next step, next patent, into warping of space time. Swinger is brilliant.

He was hard. He was as hard to understand as Sarfati is. Very hard to understand. And the thing that changed everything for Dominaaga, Feynman and Swinger, and all the rest of physics, as Freeman Dyson existed. He got in a car with Feynman, and they drove across the country. And so Feynman happened to be driving from Cleveland to Albuquerque. and he offered to take me for a ride just to see the country.

And he talked about physics, of course, a great deal. And there I argued with him a lot because I still had strong resistance to his way of doing things. And Feynman had an inspiration and wrote down on two pages showing the equivalence of all three of their models. And so quantum electrodynamics was born because Feynman rode across the country with Freeman Dyson in his car. How do you think when you look at quantum electrodynamics, you know, you have energy in the quantum vacuum, which is this fascinating

concept. You have, you know, particles and antiparticles and antiparticles. And it's just like very kind of trippy, kind of ontologically, like, you know, when you learn a little bit more about it. Do you think it comports at all with the UFO phenomena, quantum electrodynamics? Yes, because it's, it's,

the application of quantum electrodynamics to the vacuum that is produced in what's needed to make warp drive work. One of many different paths, but it's got to be something like that. Otherwise, it's magic that we don't even have the language to describe. Do you think Einstein Carton is relevant in this big picture? Yes, because I think... Wait, real quick, what is Einstein Carton? Yes.

So about 15 years at general relativity, a French bat petition, Eli Cardin comes around, and Einstein had equated the torsional tensor, he'd said it's symmetric and free space, working out, zero it out. And Cardin was like, wait a second, it's not zero in matter. You could have spin density fields that are substantial enough to add meaningful contributions. And so this was pursued by a number of difference. There's Einstein Cardin Collar, Einstein Cardin Evans. If it was like, Duffington Lee's associates, Dr. Vargas, stuff for tour,

we're into this and it allows you to get electromagnetic contributions to the spendency tensor which then builds essentially like you know curvature-based gravitation warp space time but here's what here's what here's here's the bottom line what this does cartan's modifications is given given fertilizer to the following field i can put interesting materials in and around quantum electrodynamics things going on and i I get gravitational effects out through this torsional tensor, which inside those materials does not zero out the way Einstein's assumed it would because he was thinking of the vacuum. So topological insulators, which you're very deep on, these materials.

There's a metamaterial involved. Topological insulators is the kind of thing where you've got to do some weird constitution of it. So you get, you get, you get, uh, you get, uh, weird squeezings so you trap the right vacuum particles at the right frequencies and then you manipulate them out but the material is what's doing the squeezing that allows the quantum vacuum could give you something you can use so you got to have the material otherwise you don't have the torsion tensor being non-zero so what's an example of the topological insulator then one of these materials that seems to you know when you do weird quantum electrodynamics high energy physics around and then they seem to exhibit anomalous.

Let me tell you how you know a true scientist. They say, I don't know, because I'm not a material scientist, but I'm going to ask this guy over here because he is. Bismuth and Timothy telluride. This is what's so crazy is when you say Bismuth, I think of the magnesium bismuth parts that Gary Nolan has in his lab, and I think of the magnesium bismuth that Lewis Whitten in front of a crass. Lewis Witten is working at Martin Corporation,

anti-gravity division. He says that he was contracted by Wright Airfield to work on gravity. And he said that there was a guy named Townsend who had a weird isotope of Bismuth that exhibited anti-gravity properties. And Bismuth shows up in Townsend Brown's papers as didn't use the word topological insulator, but as a high K-dialectric in his capacitor experiments. And so he was using high energy and applying it to this insulator. And so that's fascinating.

It is myth is an inherently topological dopant to different semiconductor materials. So when you have a lattice, which can be a metallic conductor or an insulator or a semiconductor, it has this bandgap between the valence electrons and the conduction electrons. In a conductor, they overlap. There's no gap. In an insulator, they're quite far apart. They don't jump on their own with thermal energy. And a semiconductor, they're very close.

Top-lodged oscillator is kind of a warping of the semiconductor definition in that that bandgap can move and change. if you apply a B field, if you warm it up, if you do different, pull it down, if you do different things to it, you can, it could be individual quantum states, the van dam. But the issue is you can apply an external field, and it stops being an insulator and turns into something special. And what's it? Upturns into unobtainium by any other means. And what is that something special involved as far as its properties? Well, for example, the right metamaterial with an external magnetic field on it might emit positive and negative matter,

that you can drive the war field with. Wow. And so with negative mass, you could theoretically affect kind of the quantum vacuum. And you could create a gradient that you could sort of surf. You could surf space-time itself. Is that kind of the nature? Yes. That's one of the notion.

That's the Al-Qubei air notion. You can have a gradient that you can surf surf on across space. Hais describes it as being sucked into space-time or into the vacuum, like, you you're slitting open an envelope and it pulls you in. It's kind of interesting. So fascinating. But we're at the beginning of the science because it's been covered up and unfunded for so long. It's amazing.

I think there's a convergence of that science and consciousness stuff. The consciousness stuff is full of snake oil and woo-woo BS. Except where Donald Hoffman is. Well, except for Donald Hoffman and I think a lineage of what's called parapsychology at elite universities mid-century where they're studying basically random or conventionally thought of as random quantum mechanical effects like radioactive isotope decay and seeing that there is an ability for the mind to affect in a statistically significant way, you know, the output of ones or zeros on kind of a graphical interface.

If people that that need your reaction, that can't happen, need to go read the peer-reviewed 100 or so papers written by Dean Radin, demonstrating conclusively these effects for real. I couldn't agree more. One of my close mentors who couldn't be more credible as far as like what he does in the real world, and I think we're going to come out with an interview soon, was very involved in the Princeton Parasicology Lab and their random event generator experiments. Yes, yes.

And I've hit him with every single skeptic. you know, file drawer issue, survivorship bias, P-Hack, you know, whatever. And, like, it's great answers for all of it. And at a certain point, you have to be like, well, that can't exist because I don't want it to exist. And actually, maybe there's something there. Yeah, I had to be converted to be convinced that there's something here. But there's definitely something there.

And I think the thing that is there, the physical possible model of consciousness, would be if the Penrose thing is right. So if there's something in the brain that can maintain. quantum coherence and then it kind of decoheres and then you see reality in this kind of macroscopic relativistic way then you're sort of rendering reality in real time as as you as you live it you render it exactly you're it's and it's comports fully with the wheeler observer theory of the universe model so if you are responsible for the the rendering and it's but that decoherence is going on in your mind, then your ability to affect matter isn't like you're like shooting particles out

at the material world. It's you're affecting the rendering of the material world, if that makes sense. Like you are the interface. It's going on inside the mind. So distance is not a factor. Which is all the quantum stuff, distance is not a factor. Distance and time are not a factor. You have temporal and spatial non-locality.

You almost kind of need something like this to get from, to get from, to get through here. You need an effect that appears to take place in a realm where distance is not a limiting factor. Yes. Exactly. Which, in all the random event generator experiments, time and distance don't matter. And it's, so it's really made.

So how do you guys think, if you have on the one side, you have kind of consciousness stuff, and then on the other side, you have exotic propulsion, high energy physics. Do you guys think they converge anywhere? Yeah, so I've been into the, work of Hoffman now for three years. Yeah. And he's come up with this model of consciousness

in a challenge from famous physicist at Princeton who told him... You said this place was steps from the water. We just haven't found the steps yet. How much did we save? Enough. Enough to get lost!

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Hilton, for the stay. I need you to show me that your model of consciousness might be able to be based upon or utilize what's called decorated permutations because they are involved in a physical object called ampalzoedrons, which are relevant to modern, current, ongoing quantum physics. Okay. So, this is a really interesting model and often just brilliant at describing how you get from this gigantic collection of conscious agents.

that are implemented in these permutations that are decorated with other information, project down to each of us individually, to give us our spacetime rendering that's our desktop that we view the universe through. But we all are derived from this up here. So his theory from the outset requires a universal consciousness pool. All right, so that's interesting. So then over here, you've got Wolfram and his team with a brilliant physicist writing papers in it who have taken hypergraphs, which are basically structures for programs and so forth, computational structures.

And they have now worked out in peer-reviewed papers how you can take one of these hypergrass and keep twiddling it and working on until you get down to fools. What I've got here is I've built from code the general theory of relativity. And you do it over here slightly differently, and you get down to, I've run this code and done all this work, and what came out of it is quantum field theory. So I asked the following question. Is it ever going to be possible to connect the information field that's being manipulated by, to all the stuff over here.

So I asked the following technical question. It's very technical answer. Is there a mathematical connection between decorated permutations and hypergraphs? And I found a mapping through certain permutations that directly map from the decorated permutations onto the components in the hypergraph. And that's my only result.

results so far, but it's the beginning of how you marry consciousness if he has the right model to physics if they have the right model. So for me, it might be string theory. It might be something a goofy, crazy mathematician would do, but it's really enticing. And I have this mechanism written down and I'm writing it up. Because I just went this week. That's incredible. Yeah. And he described to me on the train over, and I was kind of mind-borne, I sure. We got to get you and him and Pines in the same room to go over the hypograph connection, because, wow. Yeah, I'll just, I'll let you guys go. It was soup to me.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Oh, Pines. If you're seeming, you're amazing. Let's talk. Oh, let's do it. Let's do it. We'll do it.

We'll do part three with all of us. Yes. That sounds like a blast. Yeah. Well, it'll be, this is, but what people are seeing is this kind of conversation and that kind of interaction? Yeah. It's how scientists work together. They have ideas.

They bounce them off each other. They write them down. They make mistakes. They correct each other. They're hard on each other. They're supportive of each other. And in the end, we get somewhere. I don't know that this is going to go anywhere.

But I, you, you, as when you're a scientist and my, case a mathematician and you're working on something and you have this notion and you sit down and all of a sudden this chill washes over you. You feel this surge of adrenaline and you see your way through and you ride it down and you go, I have figured out the connection between this and this and here's how we do it. It's just this most unreal thing that happens to people in the moment of discovery. That's amazing. So what do you think is happening overall? Because it feels like we were talking earlier when I first saw you were like things are happening. I was like, no, things feel like they're speeding up. They really do. We just had hearings on the hill, both in the

Congress and then this week in the Senate, you know, this revelation of this program called Immaculate Constellation. We have a new director of the All-Domain Anomalous Resolution Office. But even more broadly, it just feels like in the zeitgeist. Ali? That's to me the important part, Jesse, is the zeitgeist has changed sufficiently that it's okay to discuss this and bandy about ideas about it without being afraid you're going to be called a moron or crazy. Well, the felt sense of it is like this is, and I feel with the show, too, where I'm like,

I'm going hard, like traveling everywhere and like, like, it feels like things are about to blow up in this area. Like the next year is going to be extremely revelatory. And that's really like based on instinct. Like, you know, maybe I know more than the average person as far as possible things coming down the pike. But it's really like this kind of intimation that big things are happening and real revelations are going to happen, you know, when it comes to ontological truth. Maybe again, that's supported somewhat by the new administration, say what you will about it, but it feels like there's some... If they, if the new administration will come in,

and release research funds to support the university, faculty, and the students. We will build a cadre of people that can move us down this line faster. How can they not? It's like, how, if you're aware of the reality of this stuff and you're aware of the reality of science that's been totally suppressed that is important for the U.S. to maintain its, you know, national, you know, international primacy, how? How could you, in your right mind, not, you know, just keep going with this kind of Cold War secrecy where, like, nothing gets revealed? The most damaging thing to technological and intellectual progress inside the United States nearly hampered it into non-existence is while we were doing all this wild development of quantum mechanics and general relativity, nuclear energy, and so forth and so on, we were wide open.

We interacted with people all over the world. Scientists got on boats and traveled to Europe. People came from Asia to interacted conferences, and they shared stuff. We've stopped allowing that, and people are trapped with the inability to travel or interact because they don't have the funds to do that operation. So support for this is the only way we will make major breakthroughs. because we don't know who, like, people are going to look at this, and they go, who is this guy with a purple shirt on for the southern accent?

Why does he do this? Because I was allowed to take time to think about it and listen to others who talked about it. And so I had an idea. It may be useless, but I feel it's not. But if that's happening across all sorts of places, who knows who will walk into the room as a young, person about to learn something and make a major contribution to this and just change our entire universe. Well, it's a beautiful thing, too, because I think the elite citadel of, you know,

physicists or, you know, even philosophers, academia itself is going to be, you know, proven to be kind of stale in this new model where, like, this stuff exists. And so you're going to get these kind of amateur experimentalists, people who just listen. We don't have a choice. And we have to let them in. and we have to allow them to contribute because it's a really interesting field where if you're just early on it, have good instincts and earnestly, you know, work at it. I very much admire Eric Weinstein's public stance on the disastrous things we have done to intellectual development, science, education, et cetera, in the current environment. I hope people listen to him. I hope people listen to him, too.

And I hope we can, maybe we can create some sort of. of institute outside of academia that allows for safe exfiltration of science that has been suppressed historically and stuck and lodged in these compartments in government and aerospace. And I think it's really important. If there's a way to do that, you don't want to tip your hat to the adversary, you know, you don't want to allow infinitely destructive tech out. But the idea that science itself should be, you know, snapshot whatever we had in 19, is the end of history when it comes to science.

That's crazy. And it's not even good from a national security standpoint. It's not good from basically any, any standpoint. Look, new physics, new math, new biology, new chemistry. From that, we're going to get new materials, new medicines, new ideas, new ways of doing things, and renew ourselves. What we need major ideas to figure out how to undo the dam. we're doing to our environment. Overuse, overconsumption.

Agreed. The recovery of materials in an energy-efficient manner. But you need serious research. You need it to be sexy to get into the technical fields again. I got to tell you, the Hume Center was funded by science and technology, guy from CIA named Ted Hugh and his wife. Ted was left CIA, started a company, did well, sold it to Kinetic, and plowed some of the money back into the center. And the goal for the center was talk young people into doing technical science and engineering, et cetera,

and be willing to think about doing it for the government in the intelligence community, Department of Defense, et cetera. And he put his money where his mouth was. And so what we did was we got kids to work on problems of the government wanted solved by carving off pieces that would be attractive to them that were totally unclassified, could be used for P.A. Steen thesis, Master thesis, senior projects, et cetera.

while at the same time introducing them to the other side of the equation. And some of them would go all the way and they would get a security clearance, they would get a summer job, and they wound up leaving school not with full 20 years of debt, but with money in their pocket. And they went in and to a large extent stayed in because they did not need to worry about where the next bill is going to get paid from. And so it's a concept which can be done over and over again if we just decide to do it. And it's a timeless concept, whether it was the Institute of Advanced Studies,

which was formed by Abraham Flexner, who wrote a great paper, which kind of was the auspice under which it operated, which, you know, it was the usefulness of useless things. You know, let's fund Evergreen, kind of put tons of money into long, time horizon, you know, yeah, there's a great book actually called leisure as the basis of culture. And I think, you know, it talks about the root of the word school is the Greek Schole, which actually double, it's a double meaning. It means leisure.

And it's actually come to be associated with the Latin Scala, which means latter. And so actually, like, academia should be this leisurely contemplation of the world where you shouldn't be worried about where your next paycheck is coming from. And it's just turned into this kind of, you know, hyper rat race. where we're scurrying over one another, publish or perish, you know, whatever. And so, yeah, something like this, or a Bell Labs, which is, you know, hybrid, you know, private,

but also public funding, where you're putting tons of money into new science and innovation seems like it would be necessary. And the return on investment, how can it not be good? Because when we've unleashed the human intellectual capacity

to operate freely, we have never lost. Well, out of Bell Labs, you got the semiconductor. and that is responsible for like a third of our modern economy. And you could say, oh, that could have been happened in a private venture capital context. Like, no, it couldn't. Like, you needed way too much money to make that thing work.

And so the government funding thing is incredibly important. And I hope that does get revitalized. Elon Musk is completely and utterly destroying the old way of going to space and giving us a new way of going to space. And he did it because he first bootstrap. his way to money, then he turned his ideas and put his entire fortune at risk bringing us SpaceX. But so that isn't the only model it'll work, but the gist of it, freeing people to do what they can do so that their minds are engaged and they're not worried all the time,

and we will see magic happen come out of it. I agree. And I think hopefully, you know, Elon, I think he's been walking back his dogmatism around. you know, basically like chemical combustion being the only way when it comes to space travel. And so I hope he becomes open to this because he's obviously, you know, America's chief industrialist, he's incredibly important for anything we do on the science and tech front. And when he focuses on a thing, it seems to just happen. And so I hope he shifts his focus towards, you know, more exotic science like this because it would seem to be, you know, right up his alley given, you know, his overall modus.

operandi in life. The old in Agile structures are not working for this problem set. So he is pretty much the perfect example of wiping away the old structures with new agile structures. Couldn't agree. All because he got angry when the Russians wouldn't sell him a rocket. Exactly. He wanted to put a garden on Mars.

And then it's interesting, he and Mike Griffin, because they had really made more progress in liquid fuel rocket engines. And so he and Mike Griffin go. to Russia and they actually find the rocket engines, Mike Griffin goes, you know, later he formed Space Force, but he became the NASA admin, and then he formed SpaceX, Elon Musk. And so it's this interesting sort of tech transfer or something that happened for that. Yeah, they had, they owned the engines for decades with the RD-180 and those things. They're fantastic engines.

Musk has left them in the dust. Why do you think Elon Musk, you know, it's been revealed that he's met with Putin a bunch of times? I found that very interesting because I think, you know, it's like he's providing Starling terminals to Ukraine. And he's sort of like, you know, openly helping Ukraine right when the war starts. And then he meets with Putin. That is this interesting thing where maybe the actions don't reflect, you know, what you're... So Elon is beyond important to the national security state and its needs for overhead stuff. by transporting their stuff to space.

He's very important for his a bunch of national security contracts. So what this means is, and he can't be above the law, so the following is a fact. If he's interacting with the head of state of an adversary, he is required to do reporting to his security officer. If he has not done security reporting of all of this to his security officer, he is in violation of the terms of his security officer. security clearance. I'm not saying any of this is true. I'm saying if it is true, it's a real

problem. Well, I bet I'm sure he was communicative with his security officer. And then that begs the question, you know, maybe politics isn't what it seems or something. You know, that's like, it's just an interesting kind of question. But okay, so we've gone into, you know. But I don't know what, I don't know what impact and haven't been told by any, what impact Musk having the interaction with Putin has had on anything. I don't either. We got into some of the physics around UFOs and aliens. Why do you think they're here and what do you think they're doing?

So I know a lot of experiences, and I've talked to a lot of experiences. And for whatever reason, even though I have an intelligence community background, and I'm this egghead scientist, they still seem to talk to me. And they have for a while. So the following seems to be their story. Not my story, but their story. They're doing, reading experiments for reasons we don't know. Maybe the government in secrecy knows,

but the people who are being used for these experiments don't know why it's being done. But it's interesting. The some are coming because they're constantly telling the innocent and the young and the powerless to go out and tell everybody who are not treating our planet well. So some are coming because this place is magical.

The ecology and the totally perfect conditions for life, they can't be like this everywhere. I believe life is in a lot of places. I don't believe there are many places that are so suited, to life as this is, this planet is. And we need to take care of it. And I think a bunch of them that care about all of this are here sampling our life forms, interacting, trying to figure out how it all worked, how it was all put together. And they have the time and capacity and resources

to study the problem for a long time. Because I think they've been here for a long time. Have you met an experience here that has gotten an implant? Oh, Lord, yes. And have you, so you've seen the implant? My girlfriend has two implants. Really? One of them is in her leg right next to her femur. And one of them is in her forehead. So she occasionally gets these headaches. She said, I think this thing is going on. And it's inside or forehead.

So I guessed. I made a guess. I said, all right, here's what I'm going to do. I'm going to get a electromagnetic field sensor and I'm going to put it next to her head and see what happened. and I have a video online of me moving this field meter across her head and watching that implant Oh, hey. RF transmissions. Human bodies don't pulse RF transmission.

That's terrifying. And it was coming right out of her forehead. Oh, my God. I have a video which I will show you and share with you. Yeah. Right there, right there. We found it. That is crazy.

Wow. And so what does she think the implant might? be being used for. I think it's a geolocation and other information transfer mechanism. Why else would they do a digital burst coming out of her foreign? So they're saying, look, I didn't believe these, can I tell you straight up? I didn't believe these stories at all about these implants than them been near as tracking. Until I rode the patent and formed the company that tells you how they do it.

What do you mean? Hulkai 360 is how the aliens would find these beacons all over the planet. Wait, what? The technology, Patine Hulkai-360 is how the aliens could track us across the planet. Wait, wait, explain. So you're saying the sensor tech, so you have a company Hawkeye-3-60 that does sensory analysis, satellites in space. Yes, but it finds RF emitters on the ground.

So if they have a 1.6-gaghertz emitter in... your skull. Yeah. The satellites flying over your head can locate that thing to a square meter. Unbelievable. So with Hawkeye 360, you could geolocate your girlfriend forever. Yeah. And so you're saying that presumably aliens have this tech.

Well, there are a thousand years or more ahead of us, so they have the tech. Were you able to glean much from what the meter was saying about the... It was a pulse. Yeah. It was strobing. So it was pulsing. So to me, as a communications engineer, that's what I did for Federated Wireless, is it's a digital communication system.

I have not taken the time. I would already say people are going to go, why haven't you? Because I've been busy. We were taking the time to figure out what the transmission is, how it's digitally modulated, what is the encoding of the data, so I can try to figure out what it is they're transmitting. But if they've done it right, they've got it encrypted and I'll never break you. the encryption. What's, what's, that's crazy.

What do you, what's the most insane, mind-blowing, ontologically shocking thing you've experienced in all of your inquiries into UFOs and aliens? Sure. Okay, so I've put up a bunch of sensors around my house, especially after I visited, okay, the most ontologically upsetting, transformative event in my life was becoming curious about Chris Splenzo and going to visit him. Spend days with him. And we had many experiences.

Tell me about that because I just met Chris Bloodsoe in D.C. And I definitely felt like there's an interesting energy there for sure. And for the audience, Chris Bloodsaw wrote a book called UFO of God. And he was this very interesting guy who he claimed to see the lady, quote unquote, this like divine figure who he speaks to once a year. He gets prophecies from this woman. All of this you could easily write off as total quackery if the lady wasn't in all sorts of, you know, wasn't all throughout NASA and other sort of, you know, interesting agencies when it comes to, you know,

her being depicted. And then a very high up person at the CIA, Jim Semivand, visiting Crest Bledsoe, right after he gets his sort of prophecies and taking a deep interest in him, along with Tim Taylor, who was a NASA mission controller, it seems like there's, a way in which the information that Chris Bledsoe is getting is comporting with sensitive information that the government actually has. And so that's why people are so interested in what he's sort of saying. So, yeah, what do you experience? Okay, so I began to see all sorts of stuff that I told you about earlier,

photos and other things that said UAP are here. Yeah. So I grew curious. Yeah. And these are photos that you saw just through friends in the kind of classified in the world. would say, have you seen this, Bob? I went, no, I haven't seen it.

Wow. Well, I don't know about this. So thank you for showing it to me. But anyway, so because I don't have, they did not have the right to transfer it to me. But I just, quote, happened to see it as I was passing by. And they might have said, look. Anyway, so I became curious because it heated up. Something was obviously happening inside the government.

And because there were, I knew there were meetings going on, but I was not privy to them. but I saw some drippies. So I became curious. So the person that I decided could teach me about all these UFO nuts was Richard Dolan, who wrote two volumes on UFOs and the National Security State. I am a denizen of the national security state. So I think, okay, I'll go to this guy and figure our stuff out. So I built a working relationship with Richard, read his books,

and then he interviewed Chris Fledsoe in four one-hour segments. And by the end of it, I was done. I had to go visit. I'm in Blacksburg, Virginia. Chris is over in North Carolina. He's two hours for me. So I wrote him and said, Chris, I'm a scientist. I also work for the government, doing work, and so forth.

And I'm very interested in the things that are happening to you. I might even be able to help you with some sensors that help you provide. more evidence it's actually occurring. So he was silent for three weeks. And then he said, Hey, Bob, thank you for your offer. I've decided you can come over. So I went over and I stayed four days. Three days, it rained. The fourth day, we had a clear night. So for three days, he told me every secret thing that's happened to him. It's a son. It's a really, All that stuff in the book and more. He told me while I was in his home, visiting with his family.

And so on the last night, it was clear. He says, it's going to be clear tonight. We can do sky observing. And I saw this look come over his face. It was like he was in trance and communicating with whatever his entranced state was. And he says, okay, we should go outside. So we went outside, we stood for a minute, and there were these little things that were going off like flashballs in the skies and in the trees. And I, because what in the heck is that?

Well, my brain was going, that's an electromagnetic pulse. I bet I could detect that. My mind was going. But I was totally engaged in focus. And then, all of a sudden, right above the trees, about three or four hundred meters away, this thing flashed into existence. It was a massive orb, very bright, and it waxed and waned in brightness, colors and royal, floated across the sky, was not moving linearly. It was doing curved and zigzzyzags and went over the sky and it slowly faded out as it went over.

I went, whoa. So he should call in and told his son, Ryan, to come out, Ryan Bledsoe. So Ryan came out and as soon as Ryan got out there, and boom, another one right over our heads, 40 feet in diameter, very bright, floated across the sky, and all of us enjoyed it, until it was gone. So Ryan was so excited he got video of this thing flying over our head and ran in to show it to the people with me and with the Bledsoe family that he had seen one of these

things with me and it was clearly good that I saw it because I was a scientist and I could say it was real. That's really why they wanted me there is I could say as a scientist I saw this and it's real. If I'm here to tell you, I saw it, and it was real. So we sat there, and I began to notice this purple era that looked like purple, glowing smoke right above the treetops. And it just slowly but surely brightened. And it finally got to this place where it was visible. And I says, you know, Chris, I'm seeing something. He says, you can kind of feel it.

And all of a sudden, it disappeared. Just all of a sudden, like somebody. turned the light switch off. And without missing a beat, Chris said, okay, they're gone now, and we can go inside. I went, whoa, that's telepathy or something. It says that's just wild. So we went inside, we finished our visit,

fuzzin trees, hugs, all of those stuff, and I went home. And they followed me home. Whoa. Like almost everyone who has a serious experience with him, they follow you home. Whoa. I saw them regularly. Things will show up in my yard.

I have this video of a triangle of orbs going up and down, making sure my security camera, got it. And I wondered if they were bugs, which is naturally what you'd think is an IR is illuminating bugs. So I decided to turn the security camera on long record, go out through the car fort and come around and see. And I went out through the carport, came around the corner, and I could see them with my naked eye. It had nothing to do with the IR. And they were just sitting there doing this on a triangle.

And as I turned around the corner, they took off and went straight up. Wow. Okay. So you will find that I am the next to last. incident in his book UFO of God. Okay. And he told me while I was there that Jim Semivand said,

oh, yeah, you should let Bob in. This should be interesting. So Jim Semivan opened the door for me. Interesting. That's so wild. So what do you think, why do you think somebody who's so high up at the CIA like Jim Semi-van seems like a really smart, awesome,

guy, like, why would he be interested in Chris Bloodsoe? Because, like, yeah, what do you think? Jim has now talked publicly, so I don't mind saying he had experiences of entities in his room with his wife. And they were not pleasant experiences. So that traumatized him and his wife. And so he became interested in finding out answers. And then he heard about Chris Splenso and new enough traditional texts in Latin, Roman, Greek, whatever, to show this lady stuff is real, it's in the church and so forth. What is, do you have a sense of what the lady stuff is? Because I believe part of the Chris Bletsow prophecy is that Easter of, because he sees her every Easter. He goes out to this one

little place next to his property and in Toxtor. And I think it's something like, like Easter of 2026, we're going to have some important event happen? Do you know about this? So, and I have a real story to tell about that too. Okay. He sees a missiles being fired at the country of Iran while he is observing the event, including some astronomical events that are in the sky over the top of the pyramids at Diza. From the astronomical event, astronomers have calculated that date.

Okay. So he doesn't know whether it was a vision or he was transported in time, but the entities intervene to stop the bombs from landing. Wow. That's what he sees. Now, how do I know that anyone takes any of this seriously? Here is how I know. Grant Cameron visited, who's a well-known UFO person, of write, written many books on the experience of the phenomenon and so forth.

He went and visited Chris. And Chris shared a picture with him that Grant put up on his Facebook page. So I saw the picture. And everyone who had seen that picture missed the import of it. And what is the import of that picture? It's a napkin and an envelope with a napkin partially obscuring the address that's on the envelope. I knew the address because it was the address of Chris Bledsoe. I knew the napkin because it was the presidential seal on a napkin from Camp David.

There's only one way you can have that napkin because it's a crime to copy the presidential seal. There's only one person that can get you to Camp David. And the picture was mailed to him by Tim Taylor. By Tim Taylor. And the only person that story can have been told to in that envelope was Barack Obama. Oh, my God. The letter to me is ironclad proof that Chris's story was taken all away to Barack Obama. Via Tim Taylor.

Yes. What? So this is crazy. And you're sure that that seal and that... You can't copy it. The Secret Service and others will come and get you. Oh, my God. And Grant and others have not been slapped around for doing it.

So the napkin was legit. And whoa. So this brings up all sorts of questions. But now you know why I'm a good intelligence agent. Just from looking at the picture, I put that entire narrative. That's the kind of stuff I used to do. Well, Tim Taylor to me is the, like, people, I was like, who's the number one person you want to interview?

Like, Elon Musk? I'm like, I love Elon. But like, I... He'll never give an interview. Tim Taylor. He'll never do it. I met him once briefly, but he's kind of gone dark on me, and I would do anything. He's my number one person who I want to speak with because he's so intriguing.

I got him to talk to me for about 10 minutes. Yeah. Because says, Tim, you know, I have good friends with Chris Blitz, so I went over to his house. this and another, and we interacted for 10 minutes, and he quickly moved on, and from that on, I was like I didn't exist. So what's his deal? Who was he trying to do? Because just for context for the audience, this is a guy who shows up in Diana Posulka's life

when she's connecting the dots between Catholic concepts of divine interactions with modern euophology, and she shows Diana all sorts of interesting things. They go to the Vatican together. at the Vatican Observatory, they know who Tim Taylor is. And they led him into the Vatican archives without her present. Without her present. Without an escort. Without an escort.

He's a guy who's, I guess she claims that he flashed all sorts of interesting, you know, three letter credentials, like all of them as if he was sort of. And then Ryan Bledsoe, Chris Bledsoe's son says that Tim Taylor was part of, told them that he was part of a secret time travel group in now. Massa in the Bahamas and Townsend Brown was the president of that time travel travel group. I would think all of this were to be totally insane. I'd write it off completely out of hand, but I know that Townsend Brown spent a lot of time in the Bahamas and he experimented with gravity, but he was secretly extremely interested in

time travel because time and gravity are really coupled in general relativity. So who is Tim Taylor? Why does he keep popping up in all these places? Your time axis is not my time access because whatever gravitational differences are there are between us. Your warp space time so that your time is not my time. Okay, but what does that have to do with Tim Taylor? It's just so interesting that all the gravitation stuff shows, and Gates. Gates is a famous physicist who has shown how general relativity allows for the transmission

of information back in time. GR does. Yeah. How does it? Because isn't there the Hawking chronological conjecture or whatever? Yeah. I believe. So I think that there's a certain censorship.

You can't do certain things if they violate certain conditions. But sending something back that's just information doesn't necessarily violate any of those restrictions. And so Gates is written down how. you get time travel backwards out of the general relativity. I don't think others have. I think people have already worked out through numerical simulation of how you could use black hole gravitational curvature to travel through time.

There's the traversable wormholes. There's the idea that you can reverse cubit positions in quantum computations, so it actually makes probably even more sense that you could send info back in time using quantum mechanics. But all of this is interesting, But like, what about Tim Taylor? Tim Taylor is a NASA mission controller who has access to the president of the United States.

And done miraculous work in orthopedic instruments. Vivex biotechnology. And it's $100 million. It made it $100 million on it. So who is he? I don't know the answer. Because how are you a NASA mission controller at biotech entrepreneur? You're telling Diana Pesolka you're part of a secret space program and you're getting sort of orders

on high from places that like even your, you know, immediate superiors don't understand that you're part of a secrets base program. Three letters. Yeah. He worked for the hammer. That's the story. And no one that I know, those do the hammer is. So the hammer is this like ineffable entity that...

I don't know. I don't even know if it's human. I don't know if it's NIH. I don't know what it is, except he told Bledsoe he works for the hammer. And does Bledsoe like Tim Taylor? or what's... Yeah, I think that the relationship has grown more distant. They're not really good friends that much anymore,

but they were friendly. And the story that I like most is Tim Taylor brought a piece of the Roswell crash, put it in Chris's hand and others in the family. And Chris showed an enormous, unexpected reaction. And Taylor's response to... Chris being impacted so heavily by this UFO material was, why you, I don't understand why you. And they tell that story all the time.

Why you, like in a suspicious way? Why you? Why you in a curious way? Not negative, just curious. And his son, his son as well, right? His little, the connection there. There are multiple members. members of that family that have really unique abilities.

I gotta get out there. Yeah, we had a good interaction. Yeah, yeah, we should go down. I'm supposed to go down and show him some new cameras. When are you going? I'll let you know, so we'll just go together and maybe even video it. Field trip. Field trip.

I love it. Is there anything else we should cover that, you know, you think is worth bringing up? Or? If I'm 70 years old and I have life full of experiences that are weird, So I can't think anything, except I'm going to keep working on this UAP-based science. Yeah. I am having to learn and relearn stuff, but I'm making progress. And, but it's not like I don't have any abilities.

I took quantum mechanics and differential geometry and relativity when I was in college and did well. And then when I went to Brown, I took quantum field theory from Leon Cooper, who gave us an explanation for superconductivity and won the Nobel for it. So I said, I'm prepared. I'm prepared. I need to rejigger my abilities, re-learn the current work. Is there anything the audience can do to help you or just follow you on Twitter? Follow me on Twitter. What's your Twitter handle?

Bob McGuire, spelled MCG-W-I-E-E-O-E-O. underscore M4HY. Well, that's my amateur radio call side. So Bob McGuire underscore N4HY is me on X. Bob, it's been an honor and a pleasure. It's been a lot of fun and excited to see what you do in all your new scientific endeavors. And hopefully we can go to the blood so's with you. And the journey continues. Let's do it. Enjoy more ways to save at Ralph's like low prices in every aisle. And when you download the Ralph's app, you can clip and save more. with digital coupons every week. Plus, you can earn fuel points to save up to $1 per gallon at the pump. At Ralph's, you can enjoy more ways to save

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