American Alchemy with Jesse Michels - Did Oppenheimer Work on UFOs?

Episode Date: October 19, 2024

In today's episode, we explore the complex history of UFO disclosure, focusing on historical efforts led by figures like Robert Oppenheimer and their possible involvement in secret anti-gravity research programs. We also dive into the Galileo Project's search for scientific evidence and the challenges of obtaining credible data amidst growing government oversight. Enjoy! Go to https://buyraycon.com/JESSEMICHELS for 20-50% off sitewide! Brought to you by Raycon. Become a Member of American Alchemy: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCuG2KzrIMe3qoNcuDVpwnXw/join INSTAGRAM ➤ https://www.instagram.com/jessemichels TWITTER ➤ https://twitter.com/AlchemyAmerican EMAIL/BOOKINGS ➤ [e-mail] SUBSCRIBE TO OUR CHANNEL: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC7eOJzNRWY4l2UTDvIquxYg?app=desktop Original music: https://open.spotify.com/artist/6LlLRudDi60Uy4jcmOSEs1 *** AMERICAN ALCHEMY is an original series hosted by Jesse Michels that explores the frontier of science and tech. Each week, we bring you exclusive interviews with some of the leading thinkers of our time. #documentary #history #physics #oppenheimer Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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on April 30th, the powerful vocals of Demi Lovato on May 17th, and the signature Southern Country Rock of Eric Church on July 19th. Tickets on sale now at Yamava Theater.com, only at Yamava Resort and Casino, celebrating its 40th anniversary. You win? Must be 21 to enter. As you guys know, I've been ramping up a lot of activity on the channel recently. We've had amazing episodes we just interviewed James Fox, the best documentarian in UFO history, Lou Elizondo, OG whistleblower from 2017, that is basically responsible for a lot of the modern disclosure we've seen.

It's been a really fun couple of months. But a lot of people ask me, they say, Jesse, why can't we get full UFO disclosure? So I wanted to make a video addressing that. It seems like most of what we have are sort of bits and pieces of material. It should be noted that if you actually speak to a lot of people in and around the program, which it feels like Ross Colthart and a few other select reporters are doing, we don't seem to have that many wholly intact craft in our possession.

It is my belief that the United States is in possession of exotic material. So again, whether it's Stanford Professor Gary Nolan, who actually showed me his UFO crash pieces, or other civilians who seem to have collected pieces here and there, it's really important to do things like mass spectrometry and deeper analysis to rule out other options. You know, maybe these things are meteors that could be man-made. It's really important we go deeper on the material analysis

to ensure that that's not the case. I also think these crafts are probably extremely sensitive artifacts of American national security. But until we're shown any sort of intact craft, we have to think probabilistically, and we need some epistemic humility. We can't be making super bold claims around these crafts definitely existing. Having said that, I think all of this brings a really important philosophical question up around what is UFO disclosure. I do think material analysis is a good inroad to disclosure. For example, if we figured out whether any of these materials were arranged deliberately on an atomic level, that would be basically a smoking gun that they're non-human,

because humans don't have that level of regularity when it comes to fabricating materials. So I think materials analysis is actually a decent in-road when it comes to disclosure. There are other tracks of disclosure. I just don't think they're the smoking gun that people actually want. So Avi Loeb is putting up a bunch of sensors to get signatures that might represent UFO activity, above the Harvard Observatory. So the Galileo project is basically an attempt to collect new data, new evidence,

using the scientific method without prejudice, being agnostic about what we might find in our fishing net. We cast a fishing net, it's a fishing expedition. We don't know what we will find. It's probably a mixed bag. It will be a collection of natural objects, a collection of human-made objects. But even if one object happens to come

from an extraterrestrial technological origin, That would be the most significant discovery of humanity. I applaud this. I think it's a great idea. However, I think if you're an average person, just seeing a bunch of signatures in the abstract on some sort of Excel sheet database, is not going to convince you that we're not alone, that aliens might exist or non-human intelligence exists, and that UFOs are actually flying around near the Harvard Observatory.

While I think this work is incredibly important, I don't think abstract physics is tangible enough. The next approach would be finding video. Now, I'm not a VFX guy. I think we live in this world of deep fakes, where it's really hard to tell real videos from fake videos. And so I think it's incredibly important that we surface as many videos as we can

that we think are high fidelity incredible. And so people like Jeremy Corbell are doing a great job when it comes to this. What's so interesting about this footage is it has now been confirmed by the Pentagon that it is actual Navy filmed footage. So you're seeing a thermal imagery. But unless you have the expertise to actually verify the credibility of these videos, understand their entire chain of custody, how they were filmed,

the machinery and equipment that caught these videos, I'm just not sure that you won't have permanent doubters on any of these videos. Regarding the Jellyfish UAP, in your opinion, it was birds migrating, or you're just, you were just making an analogy? It ended up being debunked. It wasn't any, it was not a UAP. If we were being visited, I'm thinking we'd have something better than fuzzy monochromatic video of objects that apparently reveal themselves only to Navy pilots.

Finally, there's legislature in government action. Betting on government inertia is always a good bet, and betting on government action is almost always a bad bet. And so while this work is incredibly important when it comes to our civilian Congress having some transparency, and oversight into the UFO issue, which they are now starting to gain, I just don't think this access of progress is going to move fast enough. Just look at last year we had this Schumer Amendment to the National Defense Authorization Act, which got entirely gutted. One of the biggest parts of this amendment involved congressional oversight

over the UFOs themselves, basically the ability for Congress to declare eminent domain or ownership over any UFOs that private aerospace. companies might be in possession of. I think if that were passed, it would be a major, major deal, and I encourage all of you to discuss this with your local congressmen and women. But as you saw then, and as you're seeing this year, it seems like these initiatives keep getting gutted. The measure I championed with Senator Rounds would create a board,

just like we did with the JFK assassination records, to work through the declassification of many government records on UAPs. This model's been a terrific success for decades. It should be used again with UAPs, but once again, House Republicans are ready to kill this bipartisan provision. Our government is unfortunately controlled by special interests and big corporation. And a lot of these big corporations are the same defense contractors that donate to the campaigns of the Congresspeople who are gutting this bill. Just take Mike Turner. He had a huge part in diluting the wording around the Schumer Amendment last year.

He represents Dayton, Ohio, which is where Wright-Patterson Airfield, force bases and where a lot of the UFO rumors are centered. Another cul-de-sac when it comes to UFO disclosure that I am sometimes guilty of myself is theorizing. So I think they're, you know, amazing theorists like Mike Masters and Jacques Valle, who talk about, you know, okay, we're seeing all these UFOs in the sky, you know, we have these abduction cases.

What do you make of the whole abduction hypothesis? There we're going to the second level, which is the physiological and psychological. level. First, there is no question in my mind that something has happened to those people. In other words, those are real occurrences, those are not imaginary or purely psychological. What are the non-human intelligence? How can we kind of create a hierarchy out of them? How can we figure out their intent? All of that is incredibly important work. But on some level, unless an alien steps out of a craft and allows himself to be filmed for everybody to see, it's sort of not falsifiable. or as one of my favorite physicist, Richard Feynman, would say,

not even wrong. So in this video, I wanted to talk about maybe the most underrated inroad to disclosure. And that is the recent history of people, people that you've all heard of, people like Robert J. Oppenheimer, Edward Teller, Curtis LeMay, possibly even Henry Kissinger, who were involved with UFO secret programs. If we could prove that any of these people actually had something to do

with the UFO legacy program, That would be a massive breakthrough when it came to disclosure. A lot of these people have relatives that are still alive. They died not too long ago. This is fairly recent history. And they're extremely esteemed scientists, military, and government personnel. So without further ado, I filmed this a couple of months ago, and it was actually based on a private presentation I gave in front of a group of scientists in Italy,

which turned into a debate with scientific skeptic Michael Shermer. What about these things that supposedly move far faster than speed of sound without the sonic boom. Yeah, how is that possible? How is that possible? That's right. It's not. That's where it gets weird. That's where it gets weird, right?

But is, that's where the question is. Is it ours? Is it really moving at that speed? Or is it a misperception of the video, a miscalculation? A lot of people were interested in this. And basically, it is a resuscitation of a lost timeline in American history, a timeline in which top American military, government and scientific brass were incredibly deep on the UFO issue. They seem to be studying it. Since 1947, we have received and

analyzed between one and two thousand reports that have come to us from all kinds of sources. They were looking into anti-gravity, and all of these programs were bound up with American atomic programs. I hope for you this video essay represents a very hard-headed detailed chronology that is a good basis point or jumping off point for further speculation and study. This episode is brought to you by Raycons. When it comes to your earbuds, don't settle. They're literally an appendage on your body. Raycon's everyday earbuds are head and shoulders better than anything else I've tried. They have a 32-hour battery life, so I'm never hunting for a charger. They have active noise cancellation, and they're also just more comfortable

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in the pinned comment below. To the extent we can actually uncover whether any of these people actually worked on these secret, you know, gravity-related or UFO programs, I think, you know, that's a way more exciting revelation than, you know, again, video, data, You know, all these other things that which I think would be very helpful,

but not move the needle nearly as much as, you know, this kind of recent history, this forgotten timeline. So in 1971, the Australian Joint Intelligence Organization, which is basically Australia's CIA, came out with a memo. And the whole thrust of the memo was written by the head of their nuclear division, a guy named Harry Turner, who was looking into U.S. efforts into UFOs and anti-gravity. And his belief was basically like the U.S. had thrown all the other countries off the trail. See, the U.S. at the time had this program called Blue Book. It was the official Air Force program studying UFOs in the 50s and 60s.

And yet, Blue Book would kind of minimize, downplay, rationalize, explain away all UFO sightings. And Harry Turner in the early 70s is realizing on behalf of, again, his sort of CIA that actually U.S. inquiries into anti-gravity and UFOs go way deeper than meets the eye. And actually, there were real programs behind Blue Book that were far, more vital than the research being done that was kind of front facing to throw the public off the trail and to throw other countries off the trail on behalf of the U.S. And so this document, this 1971 Australian document, is basically a comprehensive documentation of all U.S. inquiries into anti-gravity and UFOs in the 50s and 60s.

And it says some very bombshell things. It lists the scientists that were involved in these programs. And it lists names like, you know, you've probably heard of a lot of these people, Edward Teller, Freeman Dyson, Robert J. Oppenheimer as being deeply involved in anti-gravity research. It lists academic outposts that the CIA's Office of Scientific Intelligence was implicitly backing, basically some of our top research institutes at the time. And then it lists all of the biggest aerospace companies at the time as well. So, you know, Bell Aircraft, they had just broken the sound barrier in 1947.

You have Martin Corporation. This is pre-merger with Lockheed, you know, so kind of pre-Locky Martin. Lear Corporation, they had just invented the first business airliner. And so these are, you know, really important claims that we have to look into. Is any of this true? Or does any of this actually comport with evidence that we have from the time? Do we have any artifacts to actually support the fact that we were actually looking this deeply into UFOs and anti-gravity? Well, actually, we do. So in 1956, there's actually an article from Young Men's Magazine, which is kind of an aviation and hobbyist magazine. And the headline of the article is the G-Engines' are coming. And it basically has quotes from all of the top aerospace patrons that I just

mentioned in the Australian memo exuding confidence that the U.S. is going to beat gravity and it's right around the bend. This is basically a second Manhattan project. And in the next, you know, five or six years, we are going to beat gravity. And so you have all these crazy quotes. You have Lawrence Bell basically saying, we are working with nuclear fuels and equipment to cancel out gravity. And then you had George S. Trimble. He's the VP of, of Martin Corporation, so he runs their, actually, their anti-gravity division, which most people don't even know they had an anti-gravity division called RIAS Research Institute for Advanced Study.

And he's saying that beating gravity could be done in about the time it took to build the first atom bomb. So again, sort of crazy stuff, all in accordance with that Australian memo. But as you know, of course, industrialists can be a little quacky, they can be off with their timelines. They don't always have the best sense of, you know, physics and where it's headed. So what were the smartest people, you know, the top theoretical physicists actually doing at the time? Well, they were also kind of obsessed with gravity.

In fact, in 1957, there's this UNC University of North Carolina Chapel Hill Conference. UNC Chapel Hill is one of the CIA's academic outposts listed in the Australian intelligence memo. And the patron of this entire organization is this guy named Agnew Bonson. Agnew Bonson was so obsessed with UFOs and anti-gravity that he wrote a science fiction novel called The Stars Are Too High, which is basically about a fake alien invasion, but perpetrated by men who have created these anti-gravity crafts. And so he's obsessed with beating gravity. And the whole thing is kind of bound up with aerospace. In fact, Lewis Witten is Martin Corporation's representative from RIAS. Remember, we mentioned George Trimble.

so Lewis Witten works for George Trimble. You might recognize Witten from his last name. His son goes on to be one of the most prominent string theorists, you know, in the world. But just look at the names here. You have Bryce DeWitt, John Wheeler, Peter Bergman, Richard Feynman, the top theoretical physicists at the time all convened at UNC Chapel Hill to talk about gravity in the Einsteinian paradigm. In fact, John Wheeler would complain against this kind of prevailing ethos of the whole conference, and how interested it was in anti-gravity, because he would say, look, I just want to study gravity

and why it breaks down, why Einstein seems to break down at subatomic scales. So it's clear that this conference is very kind of bound up with aerospace because Bryce DeWitt almost worked at Martin Corporation. You had Lewis Witten, who's working at Martin Corporation. In fact, the whole thing was so bound up with aerospace that it was actually sponsored by Wright Air Development Center. So Wright Air Development Center is one of the first Air Force spaces in the U.S. It's in Dayton, Ohio.

It was founded in 1917. And, you know, they basically tested a lot of the most advanced, you know, aircraft and propulsion in the early 20th century. You know, it's named after the Wright brothers, of course. And so why is Wright Air Development Center, the top Air Force Base in the U.S., sponsoring this theoretical physics conference around beating gravity and possibly even figuring out anti-gravity? What was their interest in anti-gravity?

Well, a lot of people don't know. But they actually had a team of physics researchers working on anti-gravity at the time at Wright Air Development Center. And so you had this guy, Josh Goldberg, who's a PhD from Syracuse, and his group is called the Aerospace Research Laboratory. And their sole mandate is basically to figure out how to beat gravity. In fact, just to show you how seriously the lore was that Wright-Patterson might have in its possession kind of exotic technology that might require the study of anti-gravity in its possession and just how, you know, press of the circles that those rumors reached, I want to actually show an interview with Barry Goldwater, who was then a sitting senator. He then went on to actually be a presidential candidate. And here's a

good video of him discussing his inquiries into what secret tech was being held at Wright-Patterson, Air Force Base. When you need to build up your team to handle the growing chaos at work, use Indeed Sponsored Jobs. It gives your job post the boost it needs to be seen and helps reach people with the right skills, certifications, and more. Spend less time searching and more time actually interviewing candidates who check all your boxes. Listeners of this show will get a $75-sponsored job credit at Indeed.com slash podcast. That's Indeed.com slash podcast. Terms and conditions apply.

Need a hiring hero? This is a job for Indeed sponsored jobs. I think the government does know. I can't back that up, but I think that at right betters and field, If you could get into certain places, you'd find out what the Air Force and the government knows about UFOs. Reportedly, a spaceship landed and was all hushed up, quieted, and nobody ever, have never heard about much of it. I called Curtis LeMay, and I said, General, I know we have a room at Wright-Patterson, where you put all his seat. secret stuff. Could I go in there?

I've never heard him get mad. But he got madder and held me. Cussed me out, said, don't ever ask me that question again. So that was a 1994 Larry King interview. But Barry Goldwater is clearly talking about being stiff-armed by the sitting chief of staff of the Air Force at the time. Curtis LeMay from ever getting in to Wright-Patterson Air Force Base then called Wright Airfield. And so it's this really important question.

what was sitting at Wright Airfield, and why were they so interested in figuring out a theoretical understanding of anti-gravity? And so there are a few interesting possible explanations for this. Now, one that a lot of people don't know is that there was actually tech transfer from Nazi anti-gravity programs that made it into Wright Airfield. And so you have, I'm just going to give you kind of the high level. There was actually a secret kind of weapons facility in Czechoslovakia in modern day Poland, run by SS officer Hans Kamler. It was called Kamler Stub. They were working on all sorts of crazy kind of anti-gravity and UFO technology.

If you want to learn more about that, you should watch my documentary I made about Townsend Brown, the man who built UFOs for the CIA, where we go into more detail there. But you had all these Nazi scientists who worked under Kamlerstab, who ended up working at Wright-Patterson Air Force Base. And so you have this crazy kind of narrative where there's this project called the Avrocar, which was in 1952. It was a joint operation between the CIA's Office of Scientific Intelligence, British Aircraft. It was run by this guy named John Frost, but through Operation Paperclip, which we now know about, where we siphoned off all of these Nazi scientists working on vital programs so that the Russians wouldn't get them after World War II. You have a bunch of these kind of Nazi scientists, guys like Richard Mehta, Victor Schauberger, Henry Kowander.

Victor Schaubberger had his own design for a flying saucer. It was called an impeller. Richard Mehta was working on kind of high voltage experiments, very similar to an American scientist named Townsend Brown, which we'll get into. And then Henry Kowanda actually filed a patent in 1936 for his lenticular aerodyne saucer. He was a Romanian engineer. and he was actually doing consulting at Wright Air Force Base for, again, the Avrocar project, which started in Canada but was taken over by Wright Airfield. The Avrocar famously had trouble flying, but it was this saucer-shaped thing,

and it used kind of a radial gas flowing turbine engine, not, you know, any sort of anti-gravity. This might explain, you know, given the saucer shape, why Wright Airfield was kind of looking into anti-gravity propulsion. Maybe they wanted to use that for the Avrocar. The second reason that Wright Airfield might have wanted a theoretical framework for anti-gravity is because there were actually vital experiments going on in the world of anti-gravity at the time. In fact, you had this physicist named Thomas Townsend Brown who had these gravitator experiments. It was basically you had this asymmetric capacitor.

You had a positively charged plate, a negatively charged plate, you know, these two electrodes. The positive plate would be smaller in size than the negative electrode. And you would kind of pump the whole thing with megavoltage range. electromagnetism, and you'd get this infinite chasing effect where the negative electrode would chase the positive electrode, even if the positive electrode is facing skywards. And so basically, like, the whole thing seemed to beat gravity or create some sort of synthetic gravitational field just through the simple input of electromagnetism. Now, I can't overstate the implications of this.

Einstein spent the latter half of his career trying to marry electromagnetism and gravity. And so obviously you're going to ruffle a lot of feathers by saying that this kind of quacky American inventor, you know, who dropped out of, he did go to Caltech, but he ended up dropping out, you know, actually kind of experimentally tied these two irreconcilable forces and unified the field. But you have all these amazing credible witnesses at the time witnessing his experiments and saying, we have no idea how this worked. This is astounding. So you had Edward Teller, who's the inventor of the hydrogen bomb, one of the smartest, you know, people alive at the time. And again, listed in that Australian document as being involved in anti-gravity, he actually sees a modified version of Townsend Brown's fan precipitator experiment. And his quote is, I don't know how this works. And his wife turns to Townsend Brown's daughter, Linda, and she says, you don't know how nice it is to hear him say that. So even Edward Teller was astounded by Townsend Brown's experiments.

Air Force Chief of Staff Curtis LeMay witnessed his experiments. In fact, Linda Townsend Brown's daughter recalls Curtis LeMay chasing Townsend Brown down the stairs because he was so interested in his experiments. And Curtis Lear kind of followed my dad down the steps. Bill Lear, who's mentioned in that Australian document, who's kind of an aerospace titan at the time, known as the autopilot wizard. His office is right across the street from Townsend Brown's guidance technologies, which was in Santa Monica in the 50s.

They were close collaborators, and so he was a witness of the experiments. And then Agnew Bonson, who actually was the patron, who I mentioned, who sponsors the Chapel Hill Conference in 1957 with all the top theoretical physicists. He is simultaneous to funding that, funding Townsend Brown and his gravitator experiments.

So I think it's, you know, a possible mental framework is that you have these kind of, you have these like really smart theoretical physicists that's kind of groping in the dark for a solution, a mathematical solution to anti-gravity, while in the back, you have this kind of quacky inventor physicist, Townsend Brown, actually doing kind of the vital experimentation.

And then finally, for the purposes of Wright Airfield, you have Victor Bertrandius, who's a technical representative from Wright Airfield, who witnesses Townsend Brown's experiments in Los Angeles, and there's a direct quote from him where he says, believe it or not, I think I just saw a flying saucer, and it frightened me.

And so you have a guy who's connected with Wright Airfield and he's seeing this gravitator experiment and it's freaking him out. And Victor Bertrandius works for the famous Colonel Albert Boyd, who runs Wright Airfield's flight test division. And so, again, they might want a theoretical framework because they've seen these experiments that seem to defy gravity at the time. In fact, Wright Airfield might have been so interested in Townsend Brown's experiments that, according to his daughter, Linda, he actually had a technical consultant named Charles. is Wyatt Miller from Wright Airfield living with his family at all times, basically following them around wherever they went. So they were seriously keeping tabs on him. So again, Wright Airfield might have been privy to these sort of experiments and then that

might have made them interested in kind of a theoretical understanding of anti-gravity. And, you know, Townsend Brown is kind of shrouded in controversy. There's a lot of kind of disinfo about his career. Just to push back on some of the detractors, here is a recently declassified FBI document. at least according to the FBI at the time in 1943, he was known to be the Navy's top expert when it came to radar. And so, again, I'm not saying that, you know, expertise in radar means that necessarily his anti-gravity experiments actually worked.

But I do think the idea that he's this amateur quack does quickly dissolve upon any further investigation. Not only that, but there's a lot of evidence that Townsend Brown's work actually made it into the B-2 stealth bomber. In fact, a lot of people say B2 is named after B-Field Brown, which is his experiments, his capacitor experiments. And again, this is something I wasn't quite sure of. You do have a lot of interesting. You have this 1968 paper that Northrop published, and it's basically about Northrop's investigation into

electro-erodynamics, and which is basically Townsend Brown's work, and, you know, sort of mysteriously disappears. So you have some possible evidence there. but you also have, you know, Britain's premier aerospace journalist, a guy named Bill Gunston, basically saying, you know, I'm very sure that Townsend Brown's work made it in the B2 stealth bomber. And, you know, this is basically this kind of survey level overview of all the arrow engine technology in aerospace. He's writing for Air International magazine in 2000. Gunston goes on to write that he had been well acquainted with the rudiments of T.T. Brown's theories for years,

but he had no wish to reside in the Tower of London, so he'd refrained from discussing clever aeroplanes with leading edge charged to millions of volts positive and trailing edges charged to millions of volts negative. Again, that negative to positive thrust is literally Townsend Brown's experiments. So leading guy when it comes to radar in the Navy and his work probably made it into literally

the United States fries stealth bomber. Like maybe he's more serious than meets the eye, maybe he's not this complete joke as he's kind of made out to be. and then you actually do some digging and you realize he kind of planted all the disinformation about himself. And a lot of the people that kind of made him out to be a joke, you know, probably had incentives to do that. For more information on him, you should probably just watch the documentary I made called again the man who built UFOs for the CIA. Final explanation for why Wright-Earfield might have wanted a theoretical understanding of anti-gravity or to figure out anti-gravity propulsion is because they had an alien flying saucer in their possession.

And so they had retrieved a flying saucer disc from the Roswell crash in 1947. That's kind of the most famous story. Those crash materials reportedly made their way down to Dallas, Fort Worth, to Fort Hood originally. And then they were taken to Wright Airfield. And so that's, you know, what all the lore says. You have, you know, this picture here of Jesse Marcel holding, you know, being forced to hold. he claimed that he was forced to do this photo op with this, you know, weather balloon. But in fact, you had this kind of malleable memory metal, and it was kind of disc-shaped,

and you had these weird hieroglyphics on it, and it was actually taken to Wright Airfield. And so, again, these are three possible explanations as to why Wright Airfield was so interested in anti-gravity at the time. Kind of Nazi tech transfer from their anti-gravity programs, Townsend Brown and his vital gravitational experiments, which I don't know if they worked, but they at least convinced a lot of top military and academic and scientific brass at the time. Or you had alien material taken from Roswell and moved to Wright Airfield.

Now, Wright Airfield actually successfully reverse-engineered a German Pulse jet engine in 1943. It was literally the place that would reverse engineer adversary technology if that was ever retrieved. So it would make sense if you found an alien in vehicle, you would take it there first. It also is one of the first centers for nuclear propulsion in the U.S. So you're getting this crazy picture where in the 40s, 50s, and 60s, the U.S. had a way

deeper interest at very high levels when it came to anti-gravity and UFOs. And maybe we had more understanding of these domains than meets the eye. So this could explain the twining memo. So the twining memo is this famous document that people in UFO world love to cite. They think it's, you know, this super important document because, you have this guy, General Nathan Twining, who runs the Air Material Command for the Air Force. He's responsible for all aircraft development, the most advanced aircraft development for the Air Force. And he writes in 1947, he says UFOs are real, they're not visionary or fictitious.

He goes on to describe their attributes. They have no vapor trails. They display extreme rates of climb and maneuverability, you know, all sorts of observables that now the Pentagon has come out with. And they say, you know, similar things about UFOs. like, you know, no visible propulsion, that sort of thing. This is that version of that, but for 1947. But by far, the most interesting part of the Twining memo is the part that everybody ignores. It's the postscript of the memo where Twining actually writes,

it is possible within present U.S. knowledge provided extensive detail development is undertaken to construct a piloted aircraft, which has the general description of the object above. And again, he's describing these attributes which break physics when it comes to aviation. and he's saying we actually have in our present knowledge the ability to build these things. And then he goes on to say, without mentioning kind of the Manhattan Project, that we basically need a Manhattan Project style effort in order to do this. So then he goes on to say, any developments in this country along the lines indicated would be extremely expensive, time consuming, and at the considerable expense of other projects, and

therefore should be set up independently of existing projects. So again, if you have a secret UFO program, it should be. probably be fully insulated from civilian bureaucrats moving in and out of government. It should be this top secret thing with only the most vital scientists and only kind of super deep intel people with a need to know basis who aren't moving in and out of government and aren't going to kind of spill the beans. Well, the idea that this is actually housed in kind of a Manhattan Project style effort and that the Manhattan Project secrecy overlays UFO secrecy completely comports with David Grush's

whistleblower revelations in 2023. So David Gresh is a buddy of mine. He was at the Air Force. He was at the National Geospatial Intelligence Agency. And he was also part of the UAP task force to look into UFOs. And he basically uncovered what he claims to be these kind of decades-long UFO reverse engineering programs in deep black compartments of the government. And he says that the guy that actually set up the secrecy protocols for UFOs was Robert J. Oppenheimer. And another guy named Robert Sarbacher. I would probably ask Sarbacher Oppenheimer and be like, what was your thought process in the 40s and 50s, you know, scrolling this away? I mean, besides overlaying the Manhattan Project secrecy. And these guys basically are responsible for the 1954 Atomic Energy Commission,

which overlaid nuclear secrecy on top of UFO secrecy in this really kind of interesting cloak and dagger way. So if you actually read the Atomic Energy Act of 1954, the definition of special nuclear material is actually incredibly flexible and pliable and kind of at the discretion of the Atomic Energy Commission. It's basically any material that kind of emits any radioactive properties. So any alpha, beta, gamma radiation, anything radioactive,

is born secret under this Atomic Energy Act of 1954. And so if an aerospace contractor or the CIA or anybody guarding a nuclear base encounters any of these sort of UFOs, that material gets immediately shrouded in secrecy and immediately overlaid with the same classification system as nuclear secrets. No, it is. If you actually read the Atomic Energy Act, if something is not a nuke, but it has radiological energy companies, coming off it, you know, alpha, beta, decay, whatever.

Same secrecy. Same secrecy. And the crazy part about all of this is that UFOs seem to just show up over nuclear bases. In fact, that's this incredibly important correlation that a lot of people don't know about. There's a journalist named Robert Hastings who documents 167 UFO sighting cases at nuclear bases across the entire United States. In fact, every single nuclear base in the U.S. has been visited, according to him. and it's 167 ICBM security personnel, radar operators, people who work at these nuclear sites who are on what's called the PRP program, where they have to be the picture of mental health,

and they have to report if they're on ibuprofen or anything, because they are guarding the crown jewels of American defense in the form of these nuclear silos. And so all of these guys report seeing kind of anomalous objects in the skies. In many cases, they actually report the sites being rendered in. inoperable. There are a couple of famous cases, Bob Jacobs in 1964 at Vandenberg, Robert Salas, 1967, at Malmstrom Base in Montana. You have a ton of these cases. Even up until 2010, right before Robert Hastings retired F.E. Warren Nuclear Base in Wyoming, where you had this outage for an hour on the base, which is obviously this massive national security concern. And Hastings

actually did some backchanneling with some of the nuclear base employees there. And they basically attribute that outage to this tick-tac-shaped oblong object flying around and taking out the power at F.E. Warren. And so you have all these cases. He's documented all of this in this fantastic book called UFOs and nukes. And lest you be thinking that Robert Hastings and David Grush and Oppenheimer and all these people are kind of part of some American national security cabal and that there is no tie between nuclear and UFOs, Just to show you that that is definitely not the case, there's literally a town in Japan called Lino, which is in Fukushima,

where they have a nuclear civilian power plant that is dedicated to UFOs. In fact, Vice made a documentary on this town, I believe in 2020 or 2021, and it shows that a lot of the residents of the town are obsessed with UFOs. There's a museum that is dedicated to UFOs at the top of this mountain.

You have all these bizarre geomagnetic anomalies. And so clearly this is not some core. coordinated SIOP. And so, again, civilian nuclear and weapons nuclear are this important threat. In fact, the appendix of UFOs and nukes by Robert Hastings includes seven or eight cases of UFOs showing up around civilian nuclear reactors as well. Fukushima, of course, is famous for its nuclear disaster in 2011, but they've had a civilian grid there since the 70s. and this museum dedicated to UFOs was actually set up in the 90s.

So again, I think this would require far more coordination, you know, than just this kind of deep state national security cabal in the U.S. This is clearly a global phenomena and this correlation with nuclear is this incredibly important point that needs to be investigated.

Finally, I think one of the most important points when it comes to UFOs is that UFOs were marginalized, this kind of quacky and not serious, but they were marginalized by two important people, these physicists in the 50s and 60s, who were tied in with the atomic programs themselves. So H.P. Robertson, which created the mandate for Blue Book,

this Robertson memo, which is now declassified, but it was meant to be kept secret at the time. In 1952, at the end of 1952, before Blue Book gets formed in 1953, the Robertson panel basically makes Blue Book this kind of, let's explain UFOs away, let's downplay it in media books, that sort of thing.

Well, people don't know that H.P. Robertson actually had, you know, was very tied in with American atomic programs. In fact, he was on the National Defense Research Council under FDR, and he had a lot of ties with people like Vannevar Bush. And Edward Condon was also very close with Vannevar Bush. Condon was actually super close with Oppenheimer. They studied it, Gottengan, together in Germany in the 1930s. He actually grew up in Alamogordo, right around the bend from Los Alamos, and helped

pick Los Alamos as a spot for the Manhattan Project. And he even wrote the Los Alamos Primer, which was basically a document that all employees had to read upon getting hired at Los Alamos. Well, Condon actually loses his security clearance kind of mysteriously in 1953, 54. The nominal reason for him losing his security clearance was that, you know, he spent some time at Berkeley. He was this journalist. He was, you know, very, he had all these labor sympathies and that he was, you know,

schmoozing with socialists or whatever. And so that's why I lost his security clearance. But what's very interesting is that he actually wrote the McMahon Secrecy Act of 1946, which is the precursor to the Atomic Energy Act of 1954. So Condon actually goes on to debunk UFOs from 66 to 69. He is part of what's known as the Condon Committee, this, you know, in Boulder, Boulder, Colorado, this commission, which is basically, you know, rigged to, basically show that all U.S. efforts, when it comes to studying UFOs, were a total waste of time,

effort, and money. This was supposed to be independent of the Air Force, but in fact, Condon was in close coordination with Air Force colonels like Robert Hippler. And there's even a written memo where Hi, Hi, like, you should show that all UFO research was a waste of money. We don't want another blue book. And so it was this kind of rigged thing to debunk UFOs. And it kind of is the nail in the coffin of UFO research from the public's perspective in the late 60s and onwards. Good analogy to the UFO thing is to go to another thing that skeptics were saying was science fiction just three to four years ago. And now we have mounting evidence that it's actually a real phenomena and there's real science behind it. And so that's Havana syndrome.

Havana syndrome, again, is this kind of destabilizing dizziness, migraines, all these weird symptoms that American NBC workers and diplomats across the world were saying that they were experiencing. And you have all these skeptics saying, you know, it's this mass psychogenic illness, they're hallucinating it, they're making it up, you know, kind of blame the victim mentality. And just recently, 60 Minutes in collaboration with Derr Spiegel came out with a piece showing that a lot of these were actually U.S. counterintel agencies working specifically on Russia. And so there's this concern that Russia is responsible for these kind of high-frequency beam weapons that are causing, you know, these issues.

And so, you know, I think that's a really good analogy for the UFO thing, where you have credible witnesses. Now, we think it's total sci-fi. And the best way to actually corroborate this is to go back to this kind of forgotten timeline, where in the 50s, 60s and 70s, people actually took this stuff seriously. And so here's a really good example. You have this recently declassified document around the salt to day. Taunt talks where the U.S. is attempting peace with the USSR. And you have, you know, and you have Secretary of State Kissinger, and he's talking to

the Russian ambassador, Anatoly Dobrennan. And he's basically saying that these microwave beams are making their way into the U.S. embassy in Russia and Moscow. And in fact, they are causing these rare illnesses. And you have the American ambassador to the USSR at the time, Walter Stosser. actually being medically discharged because of a rare form of blood cancer that he would eventually die from because of these high-frequency microwave beams. And if you read this transcript, he says, you are joking.

And Kissinger says, I am serious. And he doubles down. He even gets specific about the amount of hours that the beams are kind of flooding, the embassy. And so if you go back to the historical record, you have very serious people like Henry Kissinger, kind of as serious as it gets. taking, you know, this idea of, you know, what we would now call Havana syndrome very seriously. And again, this was thought to be completely science fiction, you know, this, you know, psychosomatic thing

a few years ago. And so I think that's the perfect analogy to UFOs where you have, you know, the 2004 Nimitz citing, for example, you have these, you know, kind of multi-day corroborated, multi-sensor, you know, fleer data, you have radar data, which unfortunately we don't have access to. But you have plenty of, you know, credible eyewitness pilots, people like commander David Fravor seeing these Tic-Tac objects. So you have to go back to the historical record to corroborate this. In fact,

if you go to the Salt Talks again in 1971, it's a really good analogy to the modern UFO conversation where you have all these credible witnesses, people like Commander David Fraver, you know, radar operators, Navy fighter pilots, who are seeing these Tick-TAC shaped

or saucer-shaped objects seemingly breaking physics in the sky. And if you actually just go back to this historical record, you know, this is just the tip of the iceberg that I'm presenting here, you can, you know, uncover all sorts of mounting evidence for this. And so I think resuscitating this forgotten timeline is the way to make progress on UFOs and that, you know, it's really fun to have these debates about ontological truth, but they kind of devolve into metaphysics and these kind of everything is everything conversations. And so if we want to make

real progress, let's talk about the real personnel, the credible personnel who are at the top circles of American military, academic, and scientific circles looking into UFOs and anti-gravity. Over the last couple of years, I've had a lot going on simultaneous to the channel. You know, I've invested in a lot of startups and, you know, I've been involved in other things. And now I really want to focus a lot of my time on creating content for you. So I'm going to do more raw stuff. I just want more kind of sheer output. If you have anybody that you want to hear from and get interviewed,

Please let me know in the comments. If you want any topics covered, let me know. Or if you have any suggestions, generally, I'm all ears. And yeah, I'm pumped. I think it's going to be a really good year. I think we're going to uncover a lot of crazy stuff. Not loving your AT&T or T Mobile Bill. Yeah, we've been hearing that a lot.

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