American Alchemy with Jesse Michels - JFK & UFOs: Who Actually Killed Our President?

Episode Date: May 31, 2025

The conversation delves into the complexities surrounding the assassination of President John F. Kennedy, exploring the recent release of declassified files, the involvement of the CIA, and the covert operations that led to the assassination.  We discuss the confusion generated by the released documents, the historical context of the assassination, and the political machinations involving Nixon, the Mafia, and the Bay of Pigs invasion. We also touch on Kennedy's evolving policies, particularly regarding Cuba and nuclear disarmament, and the influence of figures like Mary Meyer on his transformation.  This conversation delves into the intricate web of political maneuvering surrounding JFK's presidency, focusing on his vision for a joint US-Soviet space program, the challenges of nuclear disarmament, and the conspiracy theories surrounding his assassination. The discussion highlights the roles of key figures like Dulles and Oswald, the implications of the S-Force, and the potential connections to covert UFO programs, revealing a complex narrative of power, secrecy, and geopolitical strategy.  Themes include the impact of fossil fuels on national security, the hidden treasures of the Philippines, and the intersection of UFOs with government operations. It explores the potential of telepathic communication with extraterrestrial beings and the Church of Scientology's involvement in UFO-related activities. | Danny Sheehan | YouTube ➤ https://www.youtube.com/@NewParadigmInstitute Website ➤ https://newparadigminstitute.org/ | Jeremy Rys | YouTube ➤ https://www.youtube.com/@AlienScientist Website ➤ https://alienscientist.com/ | Sponsors | Ground News: Go to https://ground.news/jessemichels to uncover the truth behind the headlines. Save 40% on the Ground News unlimited access Vantage plan with my link. Perfect Jean: F*%k your khakis and get The Perfect Jean 15% off with the code [JESSE15] at https://theperfectjean.nyc/JESSE15 Ridge Wallet: Take advantage of Ridge’s once-a-year Memorial Day Sale and get UP TO 40% Off right now by going to https://ridge.com/COSMIC IRestore: Reverse hair loss with @iRestorelaser and unlock HUGE savings on the iRestore Elite with the code [JESSE] at https://www.irestore.com/JESSE! -------------------------- JOIN OUR WHOP (Early Drops/Ad Free) ➤  https://whop.com/jessemichels Patreon  (Early Drops/Ad Free) ➤ https://www.patreon.com/c/JesseMichels Discord ➤https://discord.gg/crHc44m3kF Instagram ➤ https://www.instagram.com/jessemichelsofficial TikTok ➤ https://www.tiktok.com/@itsjessemichels X ➤ https://twitter.com/AlchemyAmerican Spotify ➤ https://tinyurl.com/jessemichelsspotify Clips Channel ➤ https://www.youtube.com/@JesseMichelsClips Website ➤ https://www.jesse-michels.com/ Media Inquiries ➤ [e-mail] #JesseMichels #JFKFiles #DeepStateSecrets #ThePerfectJean #Ridgepod Chapters 00:00 The JFK Assassination Files Released 06:03 The Role of the CIA and Covert Operations 12:00 Nixon's Covert Plans and the Assassination Team 18:08 Kennedy's Shift in Foreign Policy 23:55 The Secret Communications with Khrushchev 29:58 The Final Days of JFK: A Shift in Power 48:47 Kennedy's Vision for Space Collaboration 01:02:34 Nuclear Disarmament and International Relations 01:15:03 Oswald's Role and the Conspiracy 01:22:21 Cover-Up and the Warren Commission 01:29:03 Watergate and the Legacy of JFK's Assassination 01:34:42 Mobilizing Business Against Climate Change 01:40:22 The Connection Between Treasure and UFOs 01:46:08 Interviewing a Live Alien at S4 01:55:14 Fundamentalism and Alien Encounters 02:00:20 The Church of Scientology and Remote Viewing 02:06:05 Remote Viewing and National Security 02:12:59 The Church of Scientology and Sovereignty Claims 02:19:07 John Mack's Exploration of Alien Encounters 02:25:13 Worldviews and the UFO Phenomenon 02:39:10 Future of UFO Disclosure and Legislation Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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The JFK files were just released. The National Archives released thousands of new pages of declassified records related to President John F. Kennedy's assassination. 80,000 pages of documents is a lot to sit through. Can you just tell us who killed Kennedy? Who should be held culpable? I don't want to point my finger at anyone in a case like this. There's numerous people running up the hill alongside Elm Street.

Who were the, they're the two men on the grassy knoll. Who were that? This guy's like a radio man. He looks like a cube, and he's out of place, and he's sitting right next to the umbrella man. There's Rip Robertson, photographs of Rip Robertson, who's the field operations commander for the S-Force. Standing right there in Daly Plaza,

you got Ed Lansdale. Photographs of Lansdale sitting right there, and his wife identifying. The thing that I find to be so special about what we now know is the relationship that Oswald had with all these guys. Back up, man. Come on, man. I'm just a taxi.

All of this is a side product of deception, duplicity. And to think that he was alone taken completely by surprise by this, nonsense. It's nonsense. Man, it was all set up by the highest levels. And they got away with it for 62 years. You know, the JFK files were just released. The National Archives, a short time ago, released thousands of new pages of declassified records related to President John F. Kennedy's assassination. So you have 80,000 documents that require.

a lot of, you know, artificial intelligence overlay, optical character recognition to make any sense of, even then, I think very few people made any sense of them. I think they left more confused. There was a great quote by Brett Weinstein where it's like looking through the JFK files is like looking for a needle in the haystack where the needle is missing. And even President Trump, when he was asked point blink, who killed JFK after the file drop, he said, we released the files, we did a historic thing or whatever. 80,000 pages of documents is a lot to sit through. Can you just tell us who killed Kennedy?

Well, you know, I was given the task of releasing that because many presidents have gone through it and they haven't released. And I said, release. We even released Social Security numbers. I didn't want anything deleted. They said, sir, what about Social Security? But he kind of sidestepped the point-blake question is,

who should be held culpable? And I don't think anybody has a good answer to that after that file release. I'm here with Jeremy Riss, alien scientist. You've been making epic videos for 20 years on not only UFOs and aliens, but often the science, the secret science behind all this stuff, along with sprinkle in some of your favorite conspiracies. And it's, I can't wait to speak to you, man.

We've had some phone conversations. We don't agree on everything. No, don't have to. We don't have to. That's the point of having conversations. and I'm excited to have you, man. Thank you for being here. For sure, man.

Thanks for having me. It's great to finally be here. Absolutely. All right. Well, there's so many jumping off points. There were just these JFK disclosures, right? Like, what, $80,000? How many documents?

A whole bunch. And then there's, you know, how many things that didn't write down? You know, you think, like, you're planning to murder somebody. You don't write stuff down and keep a log and a whole bunch of incriminating evidence on yourself. So there's a lot of cool stuff in the document. that have come out so far, but, you know, really, you learn more from talking to long-term assassination researchers who've been... Way more.

I feel people came out of this way more confused than... A lot of people did, yeah. There's a lot of... The media used it as an opportunity to, once again, you know, hype up this idea that, oh, there's nothing in the documents. There's nothing new here. This is all just conspiracy theories. You know, the typical operation mockingbird mantras and whatnot.

But, yeah, really, the JFK research community has cracked this case, and they've cracked it for, you know, numerous number of years. I mean, Jim Mars was one of the first with Crossfire. That was the book that Oliver Stone's JFK was based on. And that really laid the foundation for a lot of the investigations that followed. And there's been decades and decades, and tons of people have dug into this from every possible angle. And now it's just come out that, you know, Priscilla McMillan, who, you know, interviewed Lee when he went to Russia and also befriended Marina Oswald and wrote her autobiography for her. She's a CIA agent. She's like, witting CIA asset. And that came out in one of the

things that was revealed in the documents, which shows the level that they went through to get ahead of the sources and the story and be like, all right, we're going to, we're going to put our people in so that anyone getting information about this from the sources has to go through us, basically. So I know you to be, you know, as deep on the topic as maybe anybody alive and you have a very coherent narrative. So what do you think happened? Who killed JFK? Actually, the shot that was fired from the Kull, killed him, was Morales, David Morales. And he was called the Mexican.

They're kind of different nicknames they had for him. But he was the crack shot out of the team, the S-Force team, that had been put together to kill Fidel Castro. And it was a triangular fire team plan, you know, to have three gunmen, crossfire, at a moving target. That was the plan. That was the structure that they'd set up and that they trained down in O'Hawka, Mexico, you know, at the ranch of Clint Murchison Jr. They trained them up down there to do that, to kill not only Fidel Castro,

but Raul Castro and Che Guevara and five other commandantes they had on the list. So this was the 5412 committee, which was run by Nixon under Eisenhower, he's setting up these sort of covert operations to take out Che Guevara and Castro. But then they get used in the assassination of JFK. How does that occur? Well, what happened is the people on the task force, the people that were recruited to be on the S-Force to kill Calfource, to kill Castro, in short, Castro and Che Guevara and the others,

that they were rabid anti-communist Cubano's that had fled from Cuba in January of 1959 when Batista was overthrown, and they all fled up to Florida and camped out basically in Miami and Tampa primarily. And a lot of them were mafia gunmen that worked for Santos Traficanti. who was the dawn of the mafia in Havana

and ran the gambling casinos, the houses of prostitution, but most importantly, the heroin smuggling that was coming in from Southeast Asia because that was critical because the portion of the profits from the heroin sales that were going on through the mafia

run by Santos Traficanti in the Gambinos, that they were running the heroin into the United States and a portion of the profits that were being skimmed off that sale were being used. to purchase military equipment and explosives to smuggle to the Kuomintang in China. Whoa.

So this is pre-Iran Contra, but the same sort of architecture. Oh, yeah, same move. And that's where they got the idea to keep doing it. You know, so that they had the whole thing set up where the portion of the heroin income was being used to purchase the explosives and weapons. There was a company set up with offices in Havana and in Miami. that was the C Supply Corporation, they called it. And on the face of it is the SEA, oh, it's a C Supply Corporation,

some kind of maritime thing. It was a Southeast Asian supply company run by Paul Halliwell, the full-time Central Intelligence Agency employee running the operation. So he was getting the money to the Gwomintang? He was actually using the money from the heroin smuggling, a portion of it to purchase the weapons and explosives. And then they would fly them from here. And that was that whole Terry and the Pirates thing, what they call flying the hump, that they had this whole operation that a fellow man William D. Pauley was, it worked for Prentice aviation.

And they were providing the airplanes. And they were smuggling them and flying them into China. So there was a, you know, Clairbooth Luce was involved in it. Henry Luce's wife. That's right. And it was in Dulles was involved. They were all involved. And that's what they call the China Lobby.

That was that whole group that, right from way back, had figured that they were planning to really turn the development operations of their economic investments into Asia. And Henry Luce then starts Life in Time magazine, which publishes the Zepruder film with the missing frames of the JFK assassination. That's right. So that's a very interesting connection as well. Which, as you know, I mean, I know the guy that got the film.

Dick Billings. Yeah, Dick Billings and knew all about how they brought it to rock. And he said and told me about the whole thing. That's wild. So he talks about them doctoring the film and taking certain frames out and stuff. And did the frames involve David Morales and the other man on the grass? It's just that it made it clear that he was being, he was shot from the front. Okay.

You could tell from the thing so that they reversed the actual frames of the film. And then the guy who let out the Zepreter film is a guy named Charles Douglas Jackson, who was basically ran psychological warfare for the United States. He was in the psychological strategy board with Gordon Gray and some of these other guys. And he led out the Zepritor film in Life magazine, which he was involved with, but with missing frames. And that was the big thing. The other guy that ran the psychological warfare program for JM Wave station was George Joannidis.

And it recently came out that these files proved that he lied about his involvement with the program. Because they asked him, who ran the program? I don't know, I'll have to look and check for you. And he never got back. They never got back to that question, never resolved that. He's the one that ran the program. How do you not know who ran the program? You ran the program.

And he lied about it to Congress in front of every, and the whole entire of America. So that one came out. That was a huge one. Anslinger, too, that, uh, not Anslinger, um, Angleton, James Jesus Angleton. And, uh, he was running this whole, um, spying program of the male intercept program.

And this guy, Ruben, Effersoner, was in charge of that. And Ruben Ephron is in the files. And they ask him about, do you know Ruben Ephron? And he says, no, that's a lie. You hired Ruben Ephron. And he ran the spy program for you that was reading Lee Harvey Oswald's mail and spying on this dude for years because he had a 201 file into the CIA since 1959. So they were, they have a massive file on Lee Harvey Oswald following all his actions. And to think that he was alone, not, and that we didn't know, we had no idea. And we were taken completely by surprise by this. Nonsense. It's nonsense.

Man, it was all set up by the highest levels. And they got away with it for 60, 62 years. But it's, I don't want it to be too confusing to everybody. It's easier kind of having it in a chronological structure to understand how this thing happened because it's a, that the entire operation was set up way back in 1960. You know, when, when, when, when, when, when, when, when, when, when, when, when, when, when, when, when, when, when, when, when, when, when, when, when, and the guys overthrew Batista and drove him out in January of 1959. Richard Nixon, as the vice president under Eisenhower and the chair of the 5412 committee,

the supervised covert operations, he sent all kinds of communications to Fidel Castro saying, look, you are fine, you've overthrown Batista, okay, it's a deal. What we want to do is make sure you don't have any diplomatic relations with China or Russia. You can't have, and he said you can't have any kind of relations with him at all. And Fidel Castro said, screw you. Who do you think you're talking to here? You know? And, you know, they, you know, wave the old Monroe Doctrine flag at him and said,

which he didn't give a crap about, you know. And so Nixon got really P.O.ed with him. And so he then set up this covert operation, which was called originally Operation 40. Okay. And then he recruited, naturally enough, he recruited a whole bunch of, a whole bunch of Batista supporters who supported the fascist authoritarian regime. down there and worked directly with Santos Traficanti because Santos Traficanti was the business partner of Batista and Paul Heliwell in running the heroin operations. And it was just a means of

covert funding for the operations to oppose China, to oppose Moussy Tongue. This is amazing. Yeah. And they didn't want to tell Congress about it at all because they didn't think they could muster enough support from Congress to actually support covert operations. operations against Mount Zittong. So they did it totally covertly. The CIA sent up this entire operation to be supporting Chen Kaishek in the so-called nationalist forces. And the chief of security for Chiang Kai Shik was the head of the Green Gang, the major heroin

operation in China. No way. Oh, yeah. Whoa. Yeah. That is wild. Yeah. Okay.

So in 5960 time frame, you have the 5412 Commission and to committee rather you have of which Nixon is ahead and he's sort of you know running kind of national security he uh partners with uh mafia dons like traficante well actually actually he avoided that one by one step what he did is recruited Howard Hughes yeah he called Howard Hughes because Howard Hughes was a consultant to the 5412 committee he would he had designed the spruce goose which became the prototype for the C5A cargo plane that could fly, you know, major covert operations in and equipment and stuff. And he also designed the Glomar Explorer,

that ship that could pick up Russian submarines off the bottom of the ocean and stuff if they fell through, and a couple other extraordinarily sensitive programs that he was working on. Like what? I can't tell you. I can't tell you that because of the way I know. You've said this before to me about how are you. and then I always goes at the UFO stuff, you go, no.

No, no, it wasn't that. It was another. What else could be the so sensitive? Is it like time travel or something? No, no, no, no, nothing esoteric like that. You're a man of the people, Danny. We need to know. Yeah.

As evidenced by Tim Dillon's recent and masterful interview with CNN, legacy media can be a bit problematic. It's more sensationalist and divided than ever. They ask leading questions brainwashed by their social milieus, and that's why people are flocking to podcasts. But podcasts have their own limits. They're often three hours long. They're not super efficient.

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drones. I only promote brands I vet and I think you'll find them just as valuable as I do. Ground News, the truth is out there. You just need the right tools to find it. It's one of those, It's one of those kind of things that, one of the very rare things that I tend to agree that it would not be good to tell people about it. Sure. You know, it would generate all kinds of damage and it wouldn't really benefit anybody. Got it. The bottom line is, but because of that, he trusted Hughes. And so he contacts him using the red phone, the secure phone, which he had from the 54-12 committee communications.

called Howard Hughes, and Traficanti told us all this. This all came directly from Traficanti about how the whole thing happened. It actually told us the day on which Richard Nixon called on the phone, Howard Hughes, was the day after Nelson Rockefeller withdrew from the 1960 Republican presidential primary race. Whoa. against Nixon. Because as soon as he withdrew, Nixon knew he was going to be the nominee for the Republican Party in 1960, and he was sure he was going to win, right? So he then took upon himself the authority basically of the incoming president to contact Hughes and ask him to put together an assassination team.

Why did Rockefeller step down right then? I don't quite. He just withdrew. He withdrew from the primary race for the... Was that a coincidence? No, no. But what it did is it freed up Nixon to realize he was going to be the nominee for the Republican Party. And so he was there for confident he was getting ready to be president.

So he started exercising the kind of a power that a president might do. And so he took on to himself this kind of authority to actually reach out and have Howard Hughes set up an assassination team. He said, but you've got to keep it completely away from the White House. So you can't, you just got to do it yourself. And so what Howard Hughes did is sent for one of his lawyers that he had Bob Mayhew. And had Mayhew, he assigned Mayhew, say, here's the job. The president kept, they started referring to him as a president in their communication. Traffic County said so.

Oh my God. They kept referring to him as the president. To Nixon as the president. Yeah, they kept referring to him as the president. No, he was a VP. No, yeah. It said, you know, that he wants this done. He wants to keep it away from the White House.

And so, so Bob Mayhew went to see, because, you know, Howard Hughes was in Las Vegas. He was hanging out at the, whether it was the Flamingo or the Sands, one of the two. Anyway, he was up in the big pet house there, and it was one of the mob hotels, right? And so he knew that they were there. So Bob Mayhew went to see Johnny Roselli, who was the bag man, you know, for the mafia skim,

the skimming of the cash off those casinos, right? And so his principal, the guy in charge of him, was Sam Giancana out of Chicago. And so when Bob Mayhew went to Johnny Roselli and said, look, you guys have your own reason for wanting to get rid of this Castro dude. You know, he shut down all your casinos, shut down your whorehouses, he said, and very importantly, they've cut off the whole heroin supply. Okay.

And so that you've got your own reasons for wanting to get rid of him. So, you know, that Nixon is assuming that you'll do this for us. And so Johnny Roselli said, well, you know, I don't have the authority to make a decision like that. We're going to have to talk to Sam Giancana. And so they went together, you know. Johnny Roselli and Bob Mayhew went to Chicago and met with Sam Giancana and pitched the proposal to him. And Sam Giancana realized that, you know, doing a favor like this for the president was going to get them a lot of potential goodwill, right? and so and keep them keep the feds off their back.

So he was agreeing in principle to do it. He said, but, you know, but this isn't up to me. That's Santos Traficanti's territory. That's down in Havana. He's the Bob Boss in Havana. He's even though he's up in Tampa now because he left Cuba. He said, so we have to go talk to him. So they went down to see him.

Now they were down there about September or so. This all started around June, around June 7th. It was when Rockefeller withdrew, June 7th of 1960. So between that, it was now early September, Johnny Roselli, Bob Mayhew, and Sam Giancana, went down to Florida, and at the Fontainebleau Hotel, met with Traficanti. And they had two meetings in which finally Traffat County tells us that he said, you know, I agreed in principle to do this. He said, but I wanted to make sure that, you know, he said,

it wasn't some kind of brain fart, he said, you know, on the part of Bob Mayhew or even Howard Hughes, wanted to make certain that this was coming from the president. That's how he termed it. He said, and so that they had a third meeting, and another guy comes to the meeting at the Fontaine Blue Hotel using the nom de Guerre Mr. Edd. And it was Sheffield Edwards.

who was the chief of security of the Central Intelligence Agency under Dulles, okay, and under the Eisenhower-Busch administration. So he comes to the meeting and gives them the green light to go ahead and do this. And so what Sam, what Traficanti did is he recruited guys from his people that were from Havana, these gunmen that he had down there, that were enforcers. who had fled with him to Florida in January of 59 and had gotten recruited by Richard Nixon and the CIA to run covert operations against Cuba. Because when Fidel Castro just finally thumbed his nose at Nixon

and said, you know, screw you, I'm going to have relations with anybody I want. So I'll have diplomatic relations with Russia and China, you know, therefore, quote, violating the Monroe doctrine, you know, of allowing a, foreign power to start having influence inside our hemisphere, you know, or our zone of influence. And so, so what happened is Richard Nixon had mounted this covert operation. And he recruited all of these people that were Traficanti gunmen in, in mobsters, basically,

but virulent anti-communists, you know, and we're all in, in, around Miami. They had the 2506 brigade. They had Alpha 66. There were a bunch of these kind of, uh, well, it's unfair to call them Covens, but I mean, they were these games like that were there, that were engaged in covert operation. And so they thought that they were kind of invested with kind of a certain kind of authority on the part of the federal government because they're paid by the CIA to do this. And they set up these bases. They set one up on no-name key.

They set one up on Swan Island. They put one in the Everglades. And then they had two of them at Lake Pontchartrain over in Louisiana, one on the southern coast of Lake Pontchrane, one on the northern coast. And they set up these paramilitary bases in these rabidly anti-communist, pro-Batista, you know, Traficanti gunmen, a lot of them, you know, were covert operators working under the auspice of the CIA to run these covert operations. So Traficani says, okay, Nixon wants me to put together this assassination team, I'm going to. to take my people who are working with the CIA, but in a completely different capacity, just to run covert operations. What I'm going to do is recruit 15 of them. I'll handpick them, and we'll put them into this special S-Force, they call it. And that's what they did.

And they would send private planes to go pick them up at these five different paramilitary bases. They would pick up a couple of the guys at each one, and they would fly them to Fort Wachuka in Arizona and big electronic surveillance operations that they've got going there in Fort Wachuka. And so they'd bring them there. And then they would sign in and then they would just disappear off the records. And then they were flown down to O'Hawka, Mexico, to the ranch of Clint Murchison Jr., very wealthy ski-on of this oil fortune down there who his father, his father, owned the Dallas Texans football team.

You know? Cowboys. Yeah. Well, later a Cowboys. It was Texas at the time. Yeah. That's who they were. And, you know, horse racing and rich people and so they had this big ranch down in Wauqua. So they set up a triangular fire team base down there to practice shooting a moving target

from three different locations to get a triangular crossfire onto the site, onto the target. And they were training them. And Carl Jenkins was brought in. from the CIA to train them on this under ZR rifle. It was the code name for the program. But this was a whole separate thing. And it was not even known to many people at all that this was going on

because they were trying to keep it away from the White House. So that operation was going on. And the way they funded it was from the skim of money off the casinos. And they would skim the money off the casinos. They would put the cash into these brand new, big expensive suitcases and put them in the trunk of brand new Cadillac automobiles, and they would drive them.

And I know the guy that sold them, the Cadillacs, because he had the big dealership there in Vegas. Anyway, and anyway, then I interviewed him at length about it. You know, and so they drive the cars through New Orleans, and Marcello was there, and they did the audit on all the money to keep track of how much money they were moving. And then they would repack. it and they would drive them into Florida deposit it in the Miami National Bank of

Meyer Lansky and then they would wire a portion of the money down into the Banco International down to Mexico City and they put it into this account by this lawyer by Mavogario had the account down in the bank and then they would pay the costs for the whole triangular fire team training base down in in Wauca and that's the so how do you go from this systematic drug running covert operation that ultimately is in support of the resistance in China, the Guomintang and the, you know, Cheng Kai Shek, how do you go from that? And then this plan initially to take out, you know, Che Guevara and Castro, who are, you know, impinging upon the Monroe Doctrine to killing JFK, setting president. What happened is that that that whole

operation was going when suddenly Richard Nixon didn't get elected. John F. Kennedy of the state of Massachusetts, Richard M. Nixon of the state of California, has received 219 votes. This is the first time in 100 years that a candidate for the presidency announced the result of an election in which he was defeated and announced the victory of his opponent. All of you work in a cause that is bigger than any man's ambition, greater than any party. It is the cause of freedom, of justice, and peace for all mankind.

And it is in that spirit that I now declare that John F. Kennedy has been elected, President of the United States, and Lyndon Johnson's vice president of the United States. And Kennedy comes in. And they briefed Kennedy now about the Bay of Pigs plan that they had going, but they didn't tell them about the assassination team at all. Hey, guys, I want to tell you about my new favorite piece of apparel. These are called the perfect jeans. They're literally the perfect jeans. I used to wear jeans all the time, and they're kind of rough and not super stretchy or breathable.

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Use code Jesse 15 for that 15% off. Again, that's code Jesse 15. That's 15% off for new customers at the number. the perfect gene.n.n.com. After purchase, they'll ask where you heard about them. Please support our show and tell them that we sent you. Fuck your khakis. Get the perfect gene. And so they lure him into the, to allowing the invasion to go on, the attempted invasion at the Bay of Pigs. But he tells them right from the very beginning that he won't provide air cover. He won't provide any air cover. And he won't, he won't provide any kind of U.S. military intervention. You know, they wanted to be able to

land on the beach and basically raise the flag of free Cuba and then ask for U.S. intervention and do it the old-fashioned way. You know, just send in a paramilitary operation. And Kennedy wouldn't do it. And they said, oh, he said, look, if you're telling me that the people of Cuba want to rise up against Castro because they're so unhappy with him. Yeah. If they land on the beach and they raise the flag of a free Cuba, if the people all rally and

toss out Castro, good. If you're telling me the truth that they're going to do it, you go ahead and do it. And what happened is they have two or three, you know, B-25s of these old bomber planes that were down in Nicaragua, actually, that the Samosa, Anastasio Samosa was supporting them in doing this, you know, was this kind of right-wing fascist dude. And so the bottom line is that they were going to provide their own air cover for this. And what happened is they were in a different time zone. And so they got there an hour late after the landing. And the guys had been nice, whacked already. They sank their ammunition boat and everything, you know.

And so they were trapped on the beach and they all got arrested. And the whole thing fell through. Wednesday, April 19th, resistance ends. All those who are not killed are taken prison. And then Kennedy took responsibility for it. And this is where the thing starts. Kennedy took responsibility for it. And the Cubano guys that got all arrested were upset at him for refusing not only to provide air support, but they had, you know, that, in fact, General Curtis LeMay and other folks from the Joint Chiefs had actually moved U.S. military forces into place.

They put naval ships with Marines in. you know, staged them contrary to the orders of the president, you know, ordered in Marines. There was so much at the time that Curtis Lameh felt the liberty to do by himself. Like he put apparently, I didn't even know this during the Cuban missile crisis later, obviously. He put us into DefCon too without the president's permission. He did. It's crazy. He did.

And launched the U2, ordered the U2 to fly over Russia to do the final retargeting, which was, and did it at a low altitude. do that he knew that Russians would pick it up to send them the signals. He was trying to goad them into trying to initiate a nuclear war. You know, so the bottom line is that all that was going on at this time. And what happened is Kennedy took responsibility for it of the snafu. And what he did is he apologized to Khrushchev for having allowed that thing to go down and gave him, gave Khrushchev, Kennedy did, his solemn promise that he would cease and desist.

from efforts to undermine the government in Cuba. And he went down to Cuba, went down to Miami at the Orange Bowl, actually, and convened a whole meeting of all these kind of right-wing Cubano refugees that had fled from there. And the whole stadium, he apologized to them all in person and said that he gave them his personal guarantee

that the free flag of Cuba would be flying over the island by the end of his second term. And he said that to them. I can assure you, that this flag will be returned to this brigade in a free of anna.

They said, okay, we got you. And then he turned around and had lied to to Khrushchev and actually converted Operation 40

into Operation Mongoose. That's all it did. It set up the big operation on the Miami University of Miami campus called J.M. Wave. This great big gigantic airplane set of hangers and they had all the operations going on there. It was a full-scale

war operation going on against Cuba. And so he continued doing that. And so, so, uh, cruise chef, he said, screw you then and started moving missiles in. And, and so all, all this was happening, all right in that first, that first period from 1961. He's elected in November of 1960, comes into office in January of 1961. You know, he does all this apologizing and stuff, uh, because it was in April of 61 that the Bay of Pigs thing came down. And so he apologizes, but he's totally pissed off, you know, at the CIA for bungling this whole operation. And the days of Alan Dulles were numbered.

And so he waited all the way till the fall in September, October, you know, of 61, and then pushed Dulles out. But Dulles didn't leave. He didn't leave Washington. He had his whole setup over in Georgetown and his big brownstone over there. And all of the guys from the CIA were going over to meet with him like every day.

He had like a social club. Wasn't it called the Georgetown set? Do you know what I'm talking about? Yeah. Georgetown's a very, we won't get too far, but it's a very interesting place, you know, with every administration. You've got these very wealthy social people.

Beautiful brownstone. Yeah. Kind of old houses. I've been in a bunch of them. Yeah. You know? Yeah, yeah. And again, recently, the new administration has got people over there.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I remember being in Michael Pillsbury's house, which I think was JFK's old house. Yeah. In Georgetown. Yeah. And just being like, this is amazing. Yeah. So cool.

I mean, he's been a kind of lead China expert in every administration since Nixon. Yeah. And it's a very elite group over there. So the bottom line is that that, so the whole operation shifts over to Operation Mungoos being run out of J.M. Wave. And cruise chefs are sending the missiles in to Cuba. And then they discover the missiles in there. The whole Cuban missile crisis comes down, right? Within the past week, unmistakable evidence has established the fact that a series of offensive missile sites is now in preparation.

on that imprisoned island. Goes all the way through into the, into late October, right? And then this, this bizarre thing happens with the UFO, right? That, that, and we'll just set that aside for a moment.

Yeah. Because it's a very, kind of comparative new piece of information. But the bottom line is that by the time they get to October 26th, the night of October 26th, they come to within like two minutes. This whole thing with,

with General Curtis LeMay, trying to instigate an actual nuclear exchange with Russia, saying that, look, the most, the Russia, if they launch nuclear missiles against us, the most, they'll kill maybe 40 million people, you know, but we'll wipe them all out, and we'll get rid of that entire scourge of communism coming out of Russia, and then we'll win, because we've only lost 40 million people, and we'll have eliminated Russia as a threat. That was his whole thinking, right? Yeah. And the bottom line is Kennedy is so completely horrified at how close they came to the nuclear war.

This is where it starts now. And what happened is he reached back out to Khrushchev, said, okay, you're right. I lied to you. You know, you're right. We kept on doing the Operation Mongoose, you know, but you shouldn't have put the missiles in there. We're going to make a deal, you know, that I'll take the missiles out of Turkey. You take the missiles out of here. And he ordered all of those bases, those paramilitary bases,

to cease and desist from any further operations. But he didn't know about the assassination team that had been deployed. But he ordered this shutting down of all the bases. And what happens is in December, December of 1962, Frank Sturgis, who is the, the CIA liaison to the Cubano guys out on no-name key. He decides he's going to, even after getting the orders from the president, that they're all to stand down and to discontinue their operations,

he, in complete defiance with the Cubans, launches an assault into Cuba and sinks a Russian ship. Whoa. Which like nobody knows about, you know, anymore, but they sank a Russian ship. One was this? It's December of 1962. Whoa.

Sinks a Russian ship. Kennedy freaks out over the fact that, you know, he'd already lied to Khrushchev once, and he couldn't stand for doing it again, you know, the whole thing would fall apart. And so what he does is he sends in, he and Bobby, who's the attorney general, they send in six helicopter gunships with U.S. Marshals, sends the... because he couldn't trust FBI because of Hoover. And so he sends in U.S. Marshals, and they burn out the base at no-name keep, and arrest all those guys, including Sturgis, and charge them with a violation of the Neutrality Act,

mounting military operations against a country with whom we have diplomatic relations, right? And hold them for almost a week and then let him go. Okay, but it's kind of shot across the bow. The president's serious, the A.G's in on it. You know, you're not going to do this anymore. Then a second group, the ones in the Everglades, under the liaison of E. Howard Hunt, start planning another attack into Cuba in complete defiance of the president, even after what they had done over on No Name Key.

And so Bobby and John send in the same six helicopter gunships and burn them out too and arrest them and charge them with the Neutrality Act violations. and the heads of the 250, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, 5-06 brigade and Alpha 66 resolve, they're going to kill these guys. They're going to kill John and Bobby, who are complete traitors that they've lied to them. They came, they came down and promised they were going to, going to support them and overthrowing the government. Now they're chickening out and they're, they're, they want to kill him. Uh, but they know that they can't get away with it, you know, but they've got the S-Force. capable of doing something like that.

So they're all kind of, you know, just pawn away like a charging bull wanting to get at the president and kill him and the attorney general both, you know, but they can't get away with this. And so what happens is Kennedy, turns out, starts secretly, this is the key to this thing. He starts secretly exchanging letters with Khrushchev through Norman Cousins. This guy is running 18 different letters. and forth, a completely off channel, no state department oversight, no CIA coverage, anything. Completely secret communications. And in those letters, they're deciding that they're both so

totally traumatized by what happened and how their military forces can get out of control. And the nuclear weapons that threat, the total annihilation of our whole human species, so they can't let this happen. So what they do is they start discussing how they're going to order, each of them is going to exercise their respective executive authority to start ordering the disassembly of the nuclear warheads in their respective arsenals and destroy them, not just take them and put them on a shelf somewhere where they can just screw them back on another week or so, you know, but destroy them. And they, they reached this agreement in principle. So he was, JFK was really going for it. He was trying to denuclearize entirely. Totally going for it.

And there's this book, I think, called Mary's Mosaic. Oh, yeah. About, you know, Mary Pynchon. Yeah, Mary Pynchon, who is the wife of Cordon Meyer. Cordmire, you know, World War II veteran who I believe came back with, I think, an eye patch. And, you know, he turned him into a pacifist. And then he sort of got in with the Dulles, Alan Dulles, kind of Intel Cabal. Yeah.

And became this kind of warmonger, who I think later was in charge of Operation Mockingbirds. So, like, incepting kind of journal. He was the real big. world with Intel assets. Yeah. But also became this kind of bloodthirsty guy. And so his wife, Mary. Mary Benjamin.

She was an artist and she was kind of a little more kind of spiritual, hippie-dippy. And she. LSD stuff. So, yeah. So she had an affair with JFK. Even more than that. I mean, it was a prolonged. Ongoan relationship.

She became, in a certain sense, his actual sort of mistress. And they did LSD together. Yes. And I don't know. Provided by Tim Leary. That's wild. Provided by Timothy Leary.

That's crazy. Provided it to him. I know the guy that knows it. Of course you did. Did it. Yeah. Okay. Yeah.

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Thank me later. And then I think they do LSD together, JFK and Mary Meyer, and this is sort of rumor mill stuff. So I'm curious to get your take. After that, JFK, because she has this mission of, like, I need to, like, stop these guys. Like, her husband, Gordon Meyer and all of his associates are going to, like, blow up the world. Yeah. And she is like, we need to rein these guys in.

And she does LSD with JFK. And then JFK, kind of, he was already more pacifist than them. But he becomes more hardcore, like, we really need to kind of de nuclear eyes. He saw the light, you know. And he went through this metanoya. as we refer to it. This metanoia experience about how incredible this was, you know, and how extraordinarily outrageous, you know,

Curtis LeMay and the Joint Chiefs have been, you know, and they'd already proposed to him this Operation Northwoods, you know, because they were so desperate wanting to get Castro out of there that they were so dedicated in their mission to preserve U.S. complete domination and control of the whole Western Hemisphere that they viewed this as an absolute. horrible affront to have these guys in Cuba. So they were just desperate to get the island overthrown.

So they kept trying everything to do it. So the bottom line is when Kennedy is exchanging these letters and very important, the thing that people don't know about, is that Cruzchev recommended that in order to verify that they were both complying with the actual, not only the disassembly, but the destruction of the nuclear warheads, is that they were going to have. Pope John 23rd broker the whole deal and oversee the whole process.

No way. That's all true. Are you serious? That's absolutely right. Cruz Shreve wrote about this in his letters back? Yes, they were in the letters. And these letters are not the letters.

No, but I know with the content. How do you know? From Jesuit headquarters because of John Paul the 23rd or John 23rd was going to be the broker. But he dies. I need to get in with the Jesuit. It's Danny.

I don't know. Yeah. Right. Right. You know, but, but he dies. Yeah. He dies in early June. Yeah.

So they were working on trying to get this done. So he dies in early June. And what Kennedy decides is that in order to, to make up for the massive disfunding of the whole nuclear weapons programs in both countries, in order to have a massive economic stimulus to replace that that, that he wants to, and he proposes to Gorbachev. that, or to Khrushchev, that they have a joint Soviet-U.S. space program, that they completely combine their forces and they overcome the whole threat of the Cold War and that they joined forces and going into outer space together.

And he, on June 5th of 1962, or 63 rather now, of 1963, what he does is he contacts McCown, the new CIA director, because he'd already forced him to retirement, and he says he wants to get fully briefed in on the UFO stuff. Now, this becomes important because I didn't know. And when I found out all that stuff, I didn't know about this other thing. Yeah, the Harold Malmgren stuff. Yeah, that's right. Yeah, so, yeah, he asked to get briefed about, you know, UFOs and wants to know more.

And this is really an important fact. John McCone, before he became director of CIA after Dulles departed, was also the, lead of the Atomic Energy Commission. He ran the Atomic Energy Commission. So he definitely would have been privy to all of the secrets when it came to UFOs, given the nuclear connection. Yes. Yeah. And so he's asking for that. And then I can give you the little Malmgren piece, which is, so Malmgren, Harold Malmgren was a presidential advisor for JFK. He was the youngest of presidential advisors. He was one of McNamara's Wiz kids. And McNamara's Secretary of Defense at the time, Malmgren is 27 years old, and he's in the situation room around the Cuban missile crisis.

And at that same time, the Cuban missile crisis, McNamara had put him in charge of cost assessments for these new X-ray-based missile defense systems. And so they're doing these tests in the Marshall Islands, specifically at Johnston Atoll, and you have these test series called, you know, Starfish Prime tests. And one of the tests is the Blue Gill series. And this is this kind of X-ray projection in the nose cone of these ICBMs meant to take out incoming nuclear warheads, which we didn't have great nuclear defense at the time. Yeah, right. And so this was this really exciting experimental thing. And the Wren Corporation had a paper on it actually earlier. And so Harold is in charge of doing all the cost assessing for this. And,

He catches wind that in this test, a UFO gets knocked out of the, it comes out of the plume of the nuclear blast. Yes. And he freaks out and he says, well, I need to know about this. And they used to call them tag alongs at the time because they were so kind of, you know, immune to, or was so casual. Yeah. And, you know, Cold War kind of intensity was so, you know, I don't know, it kind of just made them think it was this.

Yeah, like normal thing that you have a UFO coming out of the plume. And he said, I need to know. I have like all, I blink at queue clearances. And they said, no, you don't. You know, this is Office of Naval Intelligence and the Atomic Energy Commission stuff or whatever. Yeah. And so they say, okay, you can know, but you have to, you have to come to, you know, Sandia complex, Crittland Air Force Base, Sandia, where Lawrence Preston Geis, who is the maternal grandfather of Jeff Bezos can show you these UFO. They didn't say we're going to show you these UFO pieces. We'll brief you on it. Yeah, yeah. And then he goes, they show him the UFO pieces. He feels the debris. He feels this anomalous debris. It speaks to him telepathically, which is remarkable. Then he insists on getting briefed or he, I don't know, maybe Bissell reaches out to him. But Richard Bissell, who was number two, went on to become number two at the CIA.

But at the time, he's deputy director of plans at the CIA. And he was known as the mayor of Area 51 goes and briefs him on quote unquote, other world technologies. And all these kind of past. crash retrievals, including Magenta of 1933. And so Malmgren knows about this stuff. And then JFK, I think a couple weeks later, a few weeks later, ends up at Los Alamos, getting briefs. Getting briefs. Yeah. So it's like, is that a coincidence? Probably not. Well, what it is is that then Kennedy realizes that if he can give this information to Crucef, that will seal the deal. that Khrushchev will know that he's completely, he's dropping this kind of nationalistic,

competitive thing with Russia and that they can have a genuine joint space program. And of course, they need to know about what this extraterrestrial dimension is if they're going to be venturing out into space together. And so he, so, but what happens is when he demands the briefing from McCone, the Bissell and the other guys tell, tell Dulles about it. Yeah. Because Bissell and Angleton and the other guys kept going over to see Dulles all the time in the Brownstone over in Georgetown because he never left town. He just stayed right there because the fact of the matter is is that the reason he'd been appointed to be the first civilian director of the CIA is the fact that he was legal counsel for Brown Brothers Harriman.

This is Dallas. That's Dulles. That's Dulles. And that's where the China lobby is. That's the group of people that had decided long ago that what they would. do is secretly fund the rise of Hitler in Germany after World War I. Through the Union Bank. To the Union Bank and all that stuff that they set up to have them be raised up to be

the bulwark against Bolshevism in Europe. And since the investors at Brown Brothers Harriman, these two dozen... And that was the initial feeder for the CIA. It came out of the Brown Brothers. That's right. It was Robert Lovett who actually wrote the initial memo to Truman saying we've got that we've got to re-institute a major agency like the OSS. We've got to have it in peacetime.

And it came from Robert Lovin, senior partner at Brown Brothers Harriman. And so that that whole group was the seat of the China lobby, who saw the future of investment, you know, capital investment in the Asian markets because they already owned a controlling stock interest in most of the war industry in Germany, which they'd extracted through the Versailles Treaty Agreement, long and involved in process they did it. But the bottom line is that when at the end of World War I, at the end of World War I,

when the Treaty of Versailles was being signed, Robert Lansing, who was the Secretary of State under Wilson. Dulles' uncle. It was the uncle of Allen and John Foster Dulles. He had married the eldest daughter of John W. Foster, who was the maternal grandfather. for both Alan and John Foster. So there was John W. Foster was the guy.

And he was an arch imperialist. He's the guy that overthrew under his, when he was Secretary of State, he overthrew the islands of Hawaii and started taking Guam and that whole thing, focusing on moving into Asia. That was the whole idea of that. And so that what they did in the Versailles Treaty,

he got, Robert Lansing, who was the son-in-law of John W. Foster, had Robert Lansing, his son-in-law, bring his two grandsons, John Foster Delis and Alan Dulles, with him to the Versailles Treaty, and actually as lawyers at Sullivan and Cromwell, to draft into the Versailles Treaty Agreement, the war reparations requirements. Whoa. That Germany had to pay war reparations for all the damage they inflicted on other industries. So that made them to pay.

dependent on the Union Bank. Well, what happened was this is even pre-union bank. This is in 1918. And so what they did is they said, look, that you're going to have to pay these war reparations. They impose that financial obligation on them, but they didn't have the money to pay them. And so what happened is the investors in Brown Brothers Harriman, these 24, you know, robber baron families, you know, the Rockefellers and the, and Harriman Railway people. And Carnegie and All right. of these guys, the melons, all of them were there. And they saw their future is going westward

into Asia because what they could do is they could secure control over Europe through Germany. And what they would do is they would loan the money to Germany to pay the war reparations and they would take as security for their loans the controlling stock interest in like a croup ballbearing factory and in IG Farbin and all these other major war industries making the explosives and chemicals, they would have this. And a lot of these were kind of operation paperclip-based companies, right? Like they were, in some cases, started and run by Nazis. Well, the Nazis weren't there really yet.

Okay, okay. This is only 1918, right? So what happened is what they did is they set up that mechanism by means of which the stockholders or the investors in Brown Brothers Harriman, call these two dozen wealthy, super wealthy families, what they did is they had the controlling stock interest in those companies. And then what they did is they additionally loaned additional money to Germany to rebuild their war machine so that they could be the work against Bolshevism because at the very end

of the First World War in October of 1917, the Bolsheviks had overthrown Tsar Nicholas the second and overthrown him and withdrawn them from World War I. And so what happened is this seat of kind of a socialist alternative. to the kind of investment ideas that were housed at Brown Brothers Airmen that they viewed them as this terrible adversary. So what they did is they leaned in on Robert Lansing, who was the Secretary of State, and sent a foreign military expedition into Russia that almost nobody knows about it.

Now, a full-scale U.S. financed U.S. military foreign expedition to force into Russia in 1918, to try to crush the Bolshevik Revolution. Whoa, really? And they recruited the white Russians, all those kind of Tsarist Russians that were in St. Petersburg, that whole crowd. Was Dulles involved? Dulles was involved with Germany. He was pointed to be the legal counsel for Germany, as well as the legal counsel for Brown Brothers Harriman. So he was negotiating both sides of these financial agreements so that they had them owning.

He was the legal counsel for German Brothers. But for Germany is what would have been? Yes. He was appointed by Robert Lansing, his uncle, to be the legal counsel for Germany as well, so that he was on both sides of the negotiations. He was counseling Germany to accept these loans, you know, and to rebuild their war industry. And he ended up being basically almost the legal governor general, you know, working for the German government. And so that that's what he did.

He choreographed that entire thing. And so what happened is they got that all set up in 18, 1918, 1919. Yeah. Then Robert Lansing sent the foreign military expeditionary force into Russia to try to crush the Bolshevik revolution in the cradle. Hey, everyone, Jesse here. Let's talk about something a lot of us quietly deal with. Hair loss. This is something that messes with your confidence more than you'd expect.

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Healoss is frustrating. You don't have to fight it alone, thanks to iristore. But let's get back to, okay, so 63. So he's aware of UFOs and trying to do some joint space program with Khrushchev around that. Yes. He is trying to defang the American nuclear arsenal, but also have, also the Russian. Soviets, yeah, DZ nuclearized and type of mutual disarmament. Yes.

And he is trying to take the country back, the U.S. back from the U. China agreed. China agreed that they would not pursue any nuclear program at all. Do we have records of that? Yes. Oh, yeah. Really? Oh, yes. Where are the records of that? That there's, they can dig them out because they, he reached out, they reached out to China. China only had like, he reached out to Mao. They had a real early interest in kind of trying to deal with the nuclear weapons issue, but they hadn't really mounted a program. And he agreed to forestall the entire thing. Really? Mm-hmm.

No way. At that point, at that point in between basically January of 1963 and June of 1963, at least prior to when John the 23rd died, that that was still kind of a totally viable operation that they were planning to do. And then when John the 23rd died, I think Kennedy leaned forward into it to try to, to try to make sure that the thing kept on going. And so he decided he was going to get the information for Khrushchev and give it to him as a further sign of good faith so that they could not only have a complete open and honest relationship by putting some skin in the game,

by coughing up the information we had about this, but also prepare for who they were going to be encountering, you know, out in extraterrestrial civilization. You know, and what happened, is on June 5th, when he asked for it, the Bissell, it's almost certainly it was Bissile, found out about it, you know, and told Dulles. And so Dulles, and the guys said, really, wait,

they can't allow the nuclear missiles to be disassembled because they have to have them to deal with China, you know, because China had demonstrated already in Korea that they could put a billion men in uniform and just melt your gun barrels down by just pouring them on you, like they did up at Incheon and at the reservoir, you know, that that's what they did. They just sent in like a billion guys, you know, and just stormed them. And so they realized that they could not take on China in the future in a traditional land war.

So they needed the nuclear weapons. That's why MacArthur kept saying, what we ought to do is show them, bomb them, you know, that whole thing that fall out with Truman. So the bottom line is that China lobby freaked out about potentially losing their nuclear option against China. So that we can't allow that to happen. And we can't wait a year for the elections. You know, I mean, you know, they can probably figure out how to get rid of him in the election, you know. But they couldn't wait the year because he would start ordering the disassembly.

And so what happened is that when he, when on that, that, June 5th that he ended up issuing the, the demand for the, he did the same thing, the same day. He did this weird thing, because I've never been to quite figure out you, about the printing these, these silver certificates. He did that on June 5th, too. Interesting. He did a whole bunch of these things. I met Oliver Stone once, and he connects the printing of the silver certificates with JFK's

assassination. Yeah, but that was somehow undermining of. Well, he was doing a lot of radical things right there. Yeah, because I think that what happened was when John the 23rd died, you know, Kennedy, he was hoping to bring John 23rd in and kind of Catholic support for what he was doing, the ethics of what he was doing, the whole speech at George Washington University and all that stuff.

You know, he was going through this real metanoia at that time, you know. And the act of disassembly and destroying the nuclear warheads was viewed by Dulles and the guys as an act of treason, you know. And now that, but it was eliminating their ability to actually quell China, you know, and to be able to have access to the market, the Asian market. So what he did is just greenlighted the S-Force. So this is this kind of sleeper cell, select group of traffic content. day, Cuban exiles, who are these kind of killer assassins that were originally commissioned to take out Che Guevara and Castro, and he re-operationalizes them to take out JFK. All he had to do is just get up off their neck.

So who were the three, who were the, they're the two men on the grassy knoll? Who were they? Well, we know that Morales was the shooter. Okay. Because he was the guy. We know that Rip Robertson was there. Were they the two men? on the grassy mole or was Morales on the grassy knoll?

Morales was on the grassy knoll. Okay. So he took the shot from the grassy knoll. He took the shot from the grassy knoll. Wow. That was he. Wow. The thing that I find to be in a certain sense so special about what we now know that actually

happened is the peculiar aspect of this is the relationship that Oswald had with all these guys. And then you look at what's come out about Oswald's landlady. Hmm. She's a super curious character. What's her name? She's still alive, bro. She's like 93. No way.

Ruth Payne is her name. Ruth Payne, that's right. And she somehow was connected with Dulles' mistress, Bancroft. Am I making that up? Yeah, no, this is correct. She actually vacationed the summer of 1963 at a place called Nashon Island, which is right up near Martha's Vineyard in Massachusetts. And Nashon Island is owned by the Forbes family.

That's John Kerry Forbes. The guy who ran against Bush in 2004. Yeah. Right? They were both skull and bones. They both went to Yale Secret Society. The Forbes family hosted this summer retreat at their mansion. Ruth Payne's there with Alan Dulles, Alan Dulles's mistress.

What they discussed is, again, that's not going to be in the JFK files. It's not going to be in the Kennedy files. What year were they together there? 63. So right there. So right after she leaves Nashon Island, I think she either before she went to Nishon or after, she visits her sister in Virginia. Turns out her sister works for the CIA.

That's come out. Whoa. Then she goes, picks up Lee and Marina in New Orleans and brings them to Dallas, gives them a home, hooks Lee up with his job at the schoolbook depository building, which, by the way, the school book depository building is an interesting. It's owned by Dee Harold Bird. Dryhole Bird is David Harold Bird, is his real name, but they call him Dryhole Bird because he was against something called the oil depletion allowance.

He's an oil, oil man. And Kennedy wanted to get rid of this oil depletion allowance, which would have made all the oil people have to basically pay a ton of money. They wouldn't get this government tax break from Uncle Sam. So they all hated Kennedy. They wanted him gone for that reason. That's where you have the big oil element. And big oil goes back way long in history.

There's a whole book by Daniel Juergen called The Prize. And there's a prize part two where he talks about the whole history of oil with John D. Rockefeller. and how he bought out all the railroads and would only ship his oil through the railroad so he could basically have a monopoly over the oil business because none of the other oil companies could ship their oil because he owned all the railroads.

That's why in monopoly you own all the railroads. It's part of the game. And again, he shut all the business and competition out and they were eventually disbanded with the Antitrust Act that broke up all the monopolies, supposedly. But a lot of the businesses. these oil people have a real dangerous history of murder and conspiracy going way back to then, you know, and just doing terrible things. So, yeah, those guys are involved. And then D. Harold Bird,

addition to being an oil man, he's also, buys a bunch of stock in this company called LTV, Ling Temco Vought. And he's part of, he owns this big share in Vot Aerospace. Well, it turns out Vot Aerospace built all the flying saucers for Wright Patterson in the 40s and 50s under a guy named Alfred loading. Wait, wait, what? Yeah. Really? We've built, what do you mean? When you say built the flying saucers, like built the Avrocar project, which is on record. Well, the Avrocar project was Canada. So that was, that, that's, but then it got moved to right Pat as project wire is a old. Yeah, okay. Yeah. But, but like, so what, when you say built flying saucers,

because the VOT flying pancake is a VOT aircraft. It's literally an attempt to, it's early attempt to build a flying saucer with propellers. That was before Avrocar in the 40s. It was way before. or this was even predates. That's so interesting. I didn't even heard of this. Yeah. Wow. It's, it's very obscure.

It's not well known. And then LTV, Ling Tenko Vot, he gives a bunch of money with Ling. And they invest in this right before the Kennedy assassination. And of course, aerospace and all those people made a ton of money off the Kennedy assassination. And then you have deep space aerospace connections, deep state aerospace connections to Lee Harvey Oswald, because he worked it at Sugi, which is where the CIA was running the U-2 Spy Flame program.

Whoa. You know? Well, also, I believe Harold Bird, who owned the Texas Book Depository, he was, I think he had some connections with LBJ, and then he was also connected with Curtis Lamey. Curtis Lamey gave him an award for the Civil Air Corps when he was younger. Yes.

And Curtis Lamey hated JFK. Absolutely. And, you know, thought that he was, you know, kind of a traitor. LBJ too. And there's pictures of LBJ and D. Harold Bird together, like going to football games, and they were good friends. So they definitely knew each other, definitely. Maybe the craziest thing of all. I mean, JFK, we're painting a picture of him just being 360 surrounded by these, like, you know, spooky people.

The mayor of Dallas was a guy named Earl Cabell. Yeah. And his brother, Charles was Dallas's number two at the CIA. He's playing the Bay of Pigs. There you go. Yeah. And Earl rerouted JFK's motorcade. Yeah.

So like that. They took it right by D. Harold Bird's building. Right in D.C. Plaza. It's like, come on. Yeah. Now it gets even deeper. Yeah. It's crazy.

Because, you know, D. Harold Bird, you know that he has, he's a big hunter, right? He went after JFK got assassinated, he went to Africa on a safari and shot a bunch of elephants, brought their heads back and had them mounted on the wall in his big trophy room. A big trophy room full all the animal heads that he was. of all the animals he killed and shot. You know what else he did? He took the window out of the six four depository building and he put it in his trophy room at his house.

What? Why? What reason for that? No way. That's crazy. That's fucking weird. Whoa. That is like, dude, that's red flags.

That is huge, huge red flags. And the fact that Ruth Payne knows Dee Harold Bird. She brings the Oswald's to death. Alice, gives them this house to live. And then all after the assassination, they go to Ruth Payne's garage, find all the evidence that, and then about a month after the assassination, after the FBI's already searched the home extensively, Ruth Payne comes and says, oh, me and Marina found this other note that he left for Marina, supposedly where he wrote Marina a note when he supposedly went to go shoot General Walker and left her a note. But they found this all after the case. So, and then they've

used that to blame the shooting of Edwin Walker on Lee Harvey Oswald. He's, you know, he's killing this, you know, anti-communist general, which is really weird because, you know, it doesn't make sense with the narrative of, you know, what is he just trying to kill someone to get famous? Is that, is that, who we think Lee Harvey Oswald is? You know, the people get, oh, poor Oswald, you know, was just this innocent guy who was just a weirdo and he was just a fall guy, you know, and didn't have anything to do with it. It's not true at all. He was CIA trained. He was, he, that, Well, he was actually trained by the Office of Naval Intelligence. It wasn't CIA.

Interesting. And he was in this thing called Operation Redskin. It was a whole different operation. But the bottom line is he ended up being part of this thing that was called the field intelligence. And it was it was a kind of a private spying operation, the political spying operation that was going on. The William D. Pauley and in the Hunt, E.H. Hunt. And a lot of guys, they were funding it. And that was Willoughby, George Willoughby, Charles Willoughby, rather.

Because when Truman got not fired, Truman wasn't fired, he was, he was re- So what were these operations, Lee Harvey Oswald, was involved in? He was doing spying. He was doing spying on progressive groups. Okay. And around New Orleans, working with Guy Bannister. It was true. Guy Bannister is the FBI guy who's known as like the head of the ex-file.

Like he's on the weird desk of the FBI. Yeah. And so he was 555 Camp Street. Yeah, 555 Camp Street. And so, and so Ali Harvey Oswald is working out of that building. That building mysteriously gets burned down, right? By Novel. Gordon Novell is the guy that was arrested and prosecuted by James Garrison in New Orleans

for burning down 555 Camp Street, the office where, where, where, where, uh, where, Lee Oswald, wow, had the office along with the guy that was the hardcore right-wing guy that was the head of the Latin American anti-communist league one of the the guy that was the former FBI guy that was down in New Orleans the heck was that guy's name but anyway he had an office in the same in the exact same building on the exact same floor. Whoa. With him.

And Gordon Novell was prosecuted and convicted for burning down that building in the midst of the investigation. That's crazy. Okay, who ends up later

in the UFO conversation. You know, who wants to try to hire me as his lawyer? Robert Bigelow and stuff. Okay, so, so he's just all so crazy. Yeah. So what is Lee Harvey Oswald doing exactly? He's inserting himself

into like he's he is he is uh in addition to spying on the different liberal groups like ACLU and other things that he's doing filing reports with this field intelligence operation going on that that what he's doing is he's infiltrating the the free Cuba group and pretending to be a Marxist you know just like he when he went to Russia and did all that stuff and so what he was doing is he was designing a character of being involved with Russia and with Cuba. And what the plan was is to coax him into taking a shot at the motorcade, not hitting anybody, but taking a shot at the motorcade.

And then he would escape, but they would have, they'd figure out who it was. There's the gun and there's who he is. And that they would blame it on Cuba and they could get back to invading the island. You know, again, it was the same guys, the same guy, hardcore right wing guys that are into this. And so he's all put into place to take this shot at the motorcade and then run and escape. And what happens, he takes the shot at the motorcade, hits the curb and chips the, you know, the curve, the pieces of the cement flying.

And immediately these other shots ring out and kill the president right in front of it. So you think Oswald missed? Oh, he didn't miss. He wasn't intending to hit him. He wasn't even. He wasn't. What was the point, really? The point was to have a gun, a shot fired at the motorcade

to be a bungled attempt to assassinate the president and blame it on Oswald, who was a Cuban operations guy so that they could then justify invading the island. Yeah, got it. Because that was the whole plan, a very subtle plan, and he was involved in that part. And when he fired the shot. Why didn't they end up using him as, oh, like he was this Cuban operative?

Because that didn't end up being the narrative. Like, we need to retaliate against Cuba. Well, because he killed, he killed Tippett. The police officer. Tippett was sent to kill him, you know, because the whole idea is there's a dead guy. There's a lone gunman, dead guy, you know, that he took the shot at the president, you rotten bastards. You know, you're a Cuban, you know, spy. And what was his association with Cuba prior?

He was, he was part of. of the Free Cuba group. He infiltrated the group. That was when he got arrested on the street. Remember, by sitting on the street corner championing Cuba? What years is? In 1963. Okay.

1963. And he's chanting Free Cuba, like in New Orleans or where? In New Orleans. Okay. Yeah. This is amazing. Yeah. So he was creating this character who was kind of a zany guy who'd been to Russia.

and it was in favoring Cuba and then he was going to take a shot at the thing and he thought he was supposed to help get escaped. The whole theory was they were going to help him escape and then, but they were going to blame it on him, but he's already in some safe haven. But in reality they were just going to take him out.

They were going to kill him. And then he killed Tippett. That's right. As soon as he saw Tippett, he just killed him. Wow. And got arrested for it. Yeah. You know? And so that's why he kept saying, wait a second. I'm just a patsy here. Something's wrong. I like some legal representation. These police officers have not allowed me to have any.

I don't know what this is all about. I'm going to get the black eye. Sir? I work in that building. Were you in the building at the time? Naturally, if I work in that building, yes, sir. Back up, man. Come on, men.

No, they're taking me in because of the fact that I lived in the Soviet Union. I'm just a patsy. And he tried to put it. place the call. He asked for the telephone call to Nag's head, which is redskin. That was, that was the whole operation where he was dipped. That's the guy. He was dipped. Sheipped. He was erased. Yeah. And so, so the bottom line, and that whole thing, the role of him, you know, it really disappoints half of the, the Castro or the Kennedy assassination community. Oh, no, way of saying. He's supposed to be a completely innocent guy. Didn't have anything to do with it.

You know, wasn't involved with these people at all, and they're just these weird things, you know, that Garrison in New Orleans was way off base, but he wasn't, you know, that that whole crowd was part of that, you know, in Guy Bannister and that whole crowd, Bannister was the head of the, the Central American chapter of the World Anti-Communist League. Wow.

You know? Wow. You know, that's who they are, you know, and that's what he was part of. And so that's how. the, that's how the thing came down. And of course, as soon as it happened, all the people that knew about the S-Force said,

holy shit, it's the S-Force. You know, there's Rip Robertson, photographs of Rip Robertson, who's the field operations commander for the S-Force. Standing right there in Dilley Plaza. You got Ed Lansdale, you know, the photographs of Lansdale sitting right there and his wife identifying him, you know.

And so you got the S-Force is in town. Wow. You see Felipe Fidel Santiago on the grassy knoll. This guy's like a radio man. He looks like a cube and he's out of place. And he's sitting right next to the umbrella man. And the umbrella man's never been really solved. They came out with this guy they said was the umbrella man in 74 at the House Select Committee.

That's not the dude. Come on now. There was a different guy there with the umbrella symbolizing you didn't have the umbrella of the air support to help with the Bay of Pigs. And now we're going to get you. And also being the signal man on the grassy knoll. Did you know that there were three yellow painted lines right on the side of the curb where the shot, in conjunction where all the shots took place in the kill zone? And they were painted the night before because Beverly Oliver was standing on one.

She can be seen in the Zepruder film standing on the yellow curb on the edge of the sidewalk on Elm Street. And she got yellow paint all over her shoe because it was freshly painted the night before. Now, there's no parking on Elm Street. So there's no reason to paint the curb yellow. everyone knows there's no parking there. It's an on-ramp to the freeway, to the Stemman's Freeway. You know, nobody pulls over there in parks, so there's no reason to paint the curb

unless you're marking the shots for the kill zone. Were there any other actors or people worthy of consideration as far as the involvement here? Yeah, I mean, the question is to how many of the people in Brown Brothers Harriman had to sign off on this, you know, other than Dulles? And the real power was sort of in Sullivan and Cromwell, that whole law firm, you know, that's not a normal law firm, Sullivan and Cromwell. There was legal counsel for Bram Brown Brothers Airmen.

The Cromwell, of Sullivan and Cromwell, is the guy that choreographed the overthrowing of the Panamanian government to build the Panama Canal. I mean, it was sort of like Williams and Connolly. Interesting. Yeah. It's not like a normal law firm. Gotcha. You know, that's like Sullivan and Cromwell was that back at those times. So the bottom line is that's what happened.

And then as soon as the people realized what had happened, they said, shit is the S-Force. You know, and so we've got to do everything in our power to cover this thing up. Because anybody finds out it's the S-Force. They're going to track it all the way back through to the agency, and they're going to blame this on the agency. Whereas it wasn't the agency as such that did it. It was Dulles, you know, in his capacity as the cone signal

the Ari basically for Brown Brothers Harriman, you know, in that whole China lobby operation. And so the agency went to great lengths to conceal this. And then they briefed LBJ. LBJ goes and gets a hold of Earl Warren and says, Justice Warren, Chief Justice Warren, you've got to chair this commission because we've really got to quell any of these concerns about a conspiracy. And look at one thing that you've got to do, and he didn't want to do it. And so he said, look, let me tell you why you have. to do this, he said, because it says, you've got to be sure to conceal the fact that there was an assassination team that was assigned to try to kill Castro. And it was the Kennedys that put it

together. And if the word gets out that there was an assassination team that Kennedy put together to try to kill Castro, everybody's going to believe that Castro found out about it and killed the president. And if that happens, you know, people are going to go crazy and they're going to try to make us invade Cuba. And if we do that, Russia is going to do that. Rush is going to to cause of World War, and they lie to Chief Justice Warren, to get to chair the Warren Commission. And they put Alan Dulles, who was the de facto run, the guy that ran the Warren Commission, you know, the whole thing, to cover them all up. So crazy. To cover the, and what people do is people, when they get little pieces of the information, they say,

well, this is the agency that killed him. Yeah. You know, and they killed him because he screwed up the Bay of Pigs. Did they get Jack Ruby to kill? What happened with Jack Ruby? I mean, that's all the mob. They said, wait, holy shit, we've messed up here. How did they, how did they manipulate Jack Ruby into killing Lee Harvey Oswald? He was a made man. He was a made man of the mob, you know, when they tell you, do you think they M.K. Ultured him because he says he didn't remember killing Lee Harvey Oswald for a long time. No, I don't think that's true. You don't think so. But that, okay, but so then, yeah, maybe, maybe not, you know, for the actual killing. But then he ends up in jail and he claims that he doesn't remember killing Lee Harvey Oswald

but is pretty lucid. And then he's seen court ordered by a psychiatrist who is on record as being part of MK Ultra, a guy named Jolly West, who is letters between him and Sidney Gottlieb. We, you know, are fairly sure that he was involved in CIA mind control stuff. And he sees Jack Ruby for 24 hours, totally not filmed, you know, and comes out. Jack Ruby has a psychotic break, and he starts, you know, saying that they're Jews outside his jail cell screaming or whatever and is never the same after that. And Jolly West does a press conference saying Jack Ruby has gone crazy. You know, he's lost his marbles or whatever.

And so... So you can't depend on anything he says. Yeah. I mean, that's got to be pretty... But that would imply that the first time around, he wasn't... He wasn't M.K.L. Because maybe he had something to share and they needed to scramble his brain to cover it. Yeah.

No, no. No. The thing is that just following Occam's razor, you get a real simple line and narrative of what really happened. And then all kinds of activities that are undertaken to cover up and conceal this, you know, end up being interpreted as your principle involved in making the plan to kill him. Because it makes, it satisfies people's other more sinister worldview. Right.

But the bottom line is that the three, threat that was going to come unraveled happened with the Watergate burglary. Because what happened is when, as soon as the Democratic National Committee chooses Larry O'Brien to be the new head of the Democratic National Committee, it turns out previously 20 years he was the chief lobbyist for Howard Hughes in Washington. This is an amazing part of your narrative, which is that Larry O'Brien is the number two or chief lobbyist for Howard Hughes. Howard Hughes was responsible on behalf of Nixon for setting up, you know, the S-Force and working with Trafficante.

Yep. And so Nixon is, because he was a longtime political opponent of JFK, is freaked out that he's, because he's running for president later. Yes. You know, so this is in the 70s. He says, he's freaked out that basically Larry O'Brien is going to out him as having killed his longtime political opponent, even though he set up the S-Force. not to kill you, FK. It was to take out Castro and Che Guevara, but he's freaked out that they have compromise on him.

And if you look at what happened in the Watergate scandal, the burglary, it's James McCord is involved. You represented him, you know, in the one that afterwards, McCord was known as Dulles' number two and his favorite guy or whatever.

It was just, you know, his favorite understudy. And they put, they bug Larry O'Brien's phone. And it was clearly, so clearly they were targeting him And Nixon was way up against McGovern in the polls in that election.

So you always have to ask the question. Was it like he was paranoid, but was he that paranoid? Like, why would he do that if it weren't this sort of specific thing he was worried about? That's right. Because if O'Brien were to reveal the fact that he's the one that created the assassination team that in fact killed the president, there's no way you can talk your way out of that time in an election here from June, between June and November, He's not going to climb out from under that. And so he said, we've got to, we've got to find out whether, whether O'Brien knows about it.

And it's thinking it all about using it. So we've got to not only wiretap his telephone, but bug his office. That's amazing. And that's what they did. And they sent him in to do it. So you then are the lawyer for James McCord. Well, it was Bailey. It was Bailey, it turns out, was on Index 4 for the agency.

Okay. Which we didn't know. Okay. You know, none of us knew it in the office. Did you learn anything from those guys about, like, spooky Intel world or, like, did any of them sort of reveal any secret? Like, McCord, did you interact with McCord at all? No. Okay.

No. But I knew that McCord was, was, was, was, didn't want to plead guilty. He was refusing to plead guilty. He said, why am I pleading guilty? You know, that we got, because he had been told that they were going in to, to try to find evidence that, that, that, uh, and the other guys were coordinating and financing anti-war demonstrators. Yep. And he wanted to get that information.

So he thought he was involved in kind of a typical kind of, you know, I guess meat and potatoes kind of covert operation by the agency. And they've been instructed that if you get caught doing a covert operation for the agency state side, which is totally illegal, call one of the people on the index four. You know, there's William Bennett Williams. and then there's Bailey and there was this other guy Miller I knew about. But I didn't know any of that when Bailey contacted me and asked me to come over to his shop to be special counsel for the burglary case. I want to pivot slightly. It's the same sort of, you know, world that we're talking about here.

But you have a very interesting narrative about how some of maybe the initial financing occurs for secret covert UFO programs in America. Oh, yeah. And you talk about this Anderson Trust and, you know, billions of dollars worth of lost gold. 1.2 trillion. There you go. At $32 an ounce. Unbelievable.

Which is now $3,400. So what's the story there? Well, it's that what happened is back in about 19, about 2000, it was just like 2000, or 2000, that Mr. A. who is like the third richest fellow in the entire Philippines, you know, contacts the Jesuit headquarters that he wanted to have somebody from the Jesuit headquarters because he'd gone to a Jesuit high school and college and stuff

and wanted them to come in brief the top 50 business people in the Philippines about what the consequences of global climate change were going to be for the island. You know, with the rising sea levels is going to swamp parts of the island and ruin businesses. and so trying to see if they would mobilize the business community to do something about it, right? So I got designated to go brief him. So I fly to the Philippines and Mr. Ayah puts him up in this like 20-star hotel, you know,

with these, this sumptuous food everywhere, all this bizarre kind of offensive kind of opulence. And, you know, I go brief these guys and I tell them that what they should do is they should try to mobilize and get the government of the Philippines, which they had some influence with these rich business guys, you know, to lead the Association of Island States in the United Nations to mobilize a motion on the floor of the General Assembly to have a uniting for peace resolution, to have the island states all joined together and accused the United States and China and India of aggressive activities ruining their national security. By the fostering and promoting of the fossil fuels,

they're swamping their islands and ruining their country. And if you can get, I told them, if you can get two-thirds of all the members of the General Assembly, the 193 countries at that time, you know, to support such a resolution, you can get an investigation done. And if you can get three-fourths of them to vote for a resolution ordering those countries,

to start cutting back on all of the use of petroleum, you can enforce it, and the Security Council can't veto it. Okay, so I explained that all to them. And then Mr. Ayat drives me up to his big mansion at top of the mound overlooking Manila, and we're sitting there, you know, sipping lemonade one day, the evening afternoon. And he said, you know, would you like to meet the president of the Senate of the Philippines? and I said, yeah, that would be really helpful

if we could get right to them, you know. And he said, well, let me get a hold of me. He gets up and leaves. He goes in and makes a call, and he comes back, he says, good, let's go down and see him. So we go getting his big Cadillac, we drive down off the hill.

He walks into the office of the president of the Senate, says hi to the secretary, and we just walk in. We sit down. He introduces me to Senator Pimentel, who is the president of the Philippine Senate. And I'm briefing him on the, on this how to go about, you know, spearheading, organizing the Association of Island States

to bring on a motion under the United for Peace Resolution. And he's listening to me, but he doesn't seem particularly enthralled about it all. And so then he casually gets up and goes over and he closes the door and comes to sit back down. He said, well, I should tell you, he said, as the president of the Senate, you know, I chair a thing called the Blue Ribbon Commission. and the Blue Ribbon Commission is charged with finding these 176 troves of treasure that have been buried in the Philippines by General Yakashima at the end of World War II. And each of them has like $100 billion of gold and silver in the platinum bars

and big 50-gallon drums of diamonds and rubies and precious jewels that have all been pilfered by a special unit of the Japanese, army that was deployed all during the 1930s before World War II started as a treasure, a war chest for the war. Because they were, and they were worried about being invaded or taken over? Well, they, yeah, because they knew that once the Germans had surrendered in May of 1945, it was just a matter of time that the U.S. was going to invade the island, you know, and take them down.

And so they were going to move all of the treasure out of there, out of Japan, and they were going to bury it. And they were going to sign General Yakashima himself to oversee all that. And they were going to send the cousin, I think, of Hiroshima, you know, to a prince, a Japanese prince of the royal family, to accompany them. So he would know where all 176 of these treasure troves were. And so they sent him into the islands.

And they started moving the gold out in the last months of the war. And they buried it. And they buried them in these, like, you know, like 500, 600 feet deep, you know, big wells like that they drilled. And then they were using prisoners of war to do the digging and then burying the team that dug that particular hole, burying them with the gold so that no one would know, be around to tell. So where did this gold end up? It ended up in the Philippines. There's 176 troves of these.

Still there. Still there. So there is $1.5 trillion or $1.2 trillion worth of gold in the Philippines now? Oh, $1.2 trillion was just about just 12 of the troves. There's 176 of them. And they're still there. Yes. They're still there.

So who's guarding over them? They can't find them. That's what the problem is. They're crazy people running around the Philippines for decades trying to find these places. No way. They don't know where they are. But you, but we have. documentation that there are a lot of these.

Oh, yeah. That Marcos got two of them. Yeah. By capturing one of the guys who was the, who found one of them. And they drilled the eyes out of his son right in front of him with a hot poker. Jesus. Marcos did. You know, did it.

Who's Marcos? Marcos was the president of the Philippines. Whoa. That was one. Who drilled? General Verre was his kind of. Chief Torturer, and he tortured this guy's son right in front of him to get the guy to tell him where two of these little... Ambition comes in all shapes and sizes.

At First Citizens Bank, we roll with your goals because we're built for what you're building. Fit for your ambition for Citizens Bank. Troves were, you know, and they got two of them. Marco's got two of them, each of $100 billion. What? But... So what does this have to do with the UFO findings? No, it doesn't as such.

What we know is that at the end of World War II, after they had done this, they buried them all, and there were maps of them. What happened is that at Lansdale, Ed Lansdale, who was in the OSS, when they disbanded the OSS after the Germans surrendered in May of 45, that Truman disbanded the OSS and reassigned them all around and Ed Lansdale, who's an OSS guy, gets made the G2 in Manila, right?

And he knows about the fact that this treasure has been buried around there. And so what he does is when General Yakushima turns himself in, you know, at the end of the war after dropping the bombs, you know, in August, 6th and 8th, 45, you know, they all surrender. So there's not going to be any kind of invasion to the, but, and what Japan is, was hoping that they could get a conditional surrender and that they would be able to keep custody of the Philippines so that they'd be able to then later go in and dig these things up and have, you know, reconstitute the wealth of the Japanese Empire, right? That was the plan.

But the U.S. bombs them instead and says, you know, it's an unconditional surrender. You don't get the Philippines. We keep the Philippines, right? And so what happens is, is, Ed Lansdale, Ed Lansdale, knows that these are here, and so these treasure troves are there. So what he does is that he kidnaps the driver for General Yakashima,

who would know where some of them were, right? And so he has him tortured. This got me of Santo Mario, Santo Mario, yeah, it's his name, this corporal that actually conducted the torture, of this driver, and they find out where 12 of the troves are. So they punch the first one and find the $100 billion. I've seen photographs.

I mean, it looks like a football stadium down underneath the ground. You know, they goes down like five, six hundred feet, huge caverns down there in stacks of gold bullion, you know, armpit high as far as you can see, you know, and big barrels of jewels everywhere. And the bottom line is they punch 12 of these things. And so Lansdale, after punching the first one and verifying that it's for real,

he gets in a plane. He flies from Manila to Singapore to see MacArthur. And he goes in to see MacArthur personally. He starts to tell him what they've got here. Right? And MacArthur brings in his G2, who's Charles Willoughby. And so MacArthur orders Willoughby to go with Ed Lansdale in MacArthur's private plane, and they fly them from Singapore, back to Manila, back into the Philippines,

and back into the United States, right? And they go to see Truman to tell Truman that they've got $1.2 trillion in gold, bullion, and platinum and silver and jewels. And the chief of staff won't let them see him unless they tell him what they want to talk about. So they brief the chief of staff who is Clark Clifford. So Clifford comes into the meeting with Truman, with Ed Lansdale, and with Willoughby, and start to brief Truman about what they've got. Truman says, hold a second.

I've got to bring Stimson in. brings in the Secretary of War, Stimson, brings them in. As soon as Stimson starts realizing what they've got, he sends for his three deputies. And he brings in Robert Lovett and Robert Anderson, both not only deputies, secretaries of war, but senior partners in Brown Brothers Harriman and John J. McCloy.

And they bring them in, the three deputies. They find out what they've got here, and Truman decides that what he's going to do. He's not going to tell anybody. He's not going to tell the Congress. He's not going to tell anybody else about it. They're going to set up this secret trust. They call the Anderson Trust.

They set it up down in Houston, Texas. And they set up the Anderson Trust, and they have all this. And they assign, we now know he's still alive, the commander of the pilot that flew the gold out. He's alive. Yes, he's a lie. Have he spoken to? No, I'm going to. Whoa.

We're going to. We know right where he is now. and I'm going to talk to him, you know, to get this thing on the record. Whoa. But so they fly using U.S. military transports. They fly these gold all out of there, you know, these 12 troughs of it,

and they bring it to the International Credit Bank in Geneva, Switzerland. And they deposit it there, and then they issue gold certificates on it, which are like bearer bonds, you know, and they make, they distribute them to right-wing anti-communists. candidates for mayors and stuff after World War II, you know, all throughout Europe. Whoa. And there's this whole covert program.

So this has nothing to do with the UFOs? No. Oh. No, no, no. But what it is is it's a mechanism for secretly funding covert operations. Yeah. They're going on after World War II when the CIA is set up and they're all funding the stuff. And that's Dulles, knows about this money that's there.

Yeah. And so that they're using this for covert operations. Interesting. You know? And yeah, that's wild. That's wild. It's totally separate from the UFO stuff. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

I think Chris Ramsey, who just did a great interview with you, told me maybe he thought it had something to do with UFO. No, no. I'll use this as an opportunity to say, Chris, why did you leave me astray? But go watch your interview with Chris, because I thought that was great. I don't know if you've seen it. It was fantastic. It was really great. I don't see most of these things.

I just, you know, when I, with somebody that I trust anyway, that I can just tell you. Yeah. And so it's done. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I know that you guys will tell other people. Check it out, Area 52. Yeah. In that interview, you actually talk about an interview with a live alien being.

Yeah. At S4 in Area 51. That's right. And, yeah, you care to go into any detail around that? Well, yeah. I got at Jesuit headquarters, I may see, it must be about, let's see, when that would be, it was 94, that I'd already done the John Mack stuff. So it was like 2000, 2001, 2002, something like that.

I get a call from a guy in northern Minnesota. and he's on his deathbed. Well, he's actually in hospice, right? And he wants me to come and see him. There's something, and he says that he worked directly with Project Blue Book. And so I said, oh, okay. So I fly there and fly into Minneapolis and rent a little car and drive up into this little teeny town up in northern Minnesota.

And there he is. He's at this little hospice place with, he's got one of these little rollers with all the little bottles on it, stuff in his nose. And he starts telling me how he was a clerk typist, Army, U.S. Army, clerk typist, assigned to this special unit of Project Blue Book that was focusing just on the 700 or so cases of incidents, which they couldn't explain away.

They were just too credible. The sources were too credible. They had too many people had seen it. What was his name? His name was Oscar Wolf. Oscar Wolf or Oscar Lane. Oscar Wolf. Yes.

Oscar Wolf is who he was. And he starts telling me about it all and it goes into detail about it. Now, it's one of these bizarre things because my office people said, you've got to bring a camera. You got to bring a camera to get this guy if he's going to give you a death. You record him? Yeah, I brought the little thing. I set it all up on the little table.

And so I had the whole thing recorded. And it got corrupted somehow. But I think Jeremy Corbell might have recorded an interview with this guy. Separately. Later, he did. And he also talked with Richard Dolan. Okay. So we have him on record.

That's right. Oscar Wolte. But the thing is they didn't press into them as far as I know about this incident. Oh, really? And he told me about the fact that he, because I kept in terror. They missed the, they buried the lead. Well, yeah, because I was interrogating the shit out of him, you know. I was just pressing down on him because I figured he was going to be dead.

Poor guy. He's on his death, that. So, you know, don't, don't mess with me. So, you know, shape up. He's dying. You can't do that. I could have said, you know, if you want any absolution, you know, but I didn't do that part. So, so. Man, the Jesuits are. That's being too tough.

So the bottom line, he tells me that the reason that he has developed this kind of special relationship with the commander of this unit that is assigned specifically to investigate the 700 other cases, right, is because he and the commander were both part of this really fundamentalist Christian sect called the Worldwide Church of God. I mean, apparently really hardcore fundamentalist crowd. And so that he stayed there for years. And when they were working on it, people would come and go and the staff and do field investigations and all that. But he kept staying there and keeping records. And then his commander comes in and said

that he is going to be going to area 51 and wanted Oscar to come with him. And so he did. He went with him. But it turns out it was not just area 51. It was S4. So they actually went all the way to S4 and went down in the big elevators and went in and he said he saw like three or four. By the way, S4 isn't supposed to officially exist.

So it's important. The only versions where it exists, you have Bob Lazar, you have a guy named Dan Barish and you have this story. That's right. And I think we're going to get some more corroboration soon that S4 does in fact exist. And then all of a sudden you start asking questions about these specific stories and it starts to blow your mind. Okay, so you're going down. So he goes down and he says, and he sees like there's three or four UFOs that are just, they've got little like little garages like these little chambers.

So it's the same story as Bob Lazar. And they're just hovering in there. They're just, he said they were just, they were just hovering all by themselves inside these little garages like that were underground. He said he saw them. And then they went in and his commander was going to be, quote, interviewing a live E.T. guy, right? So he goes with him, and they come into this other area where there were military guys there. He said, but there was this room, like a standalone room with these

big two-way mirrors that you can see through from the outside. And he said, he saw the E.T. guy, but he was like, you know, five and a half feet tall. No, it wasn't a little tiny short guy. It was kind of a kind of life-sized guy. It's a big head, big eyes, and he was in this kind of jumpsuit that they'd provided for him. And he was very cooperative. He wasn't being interrogated. Was he speaking English or telepathic? No, no, he was all telepathic.

It was all telepathic. So he just saw them sitting across from each other. He could see his commander walk in, but he wouldn't go because he said, I thought it was demonic. That's what he said. He said, I thought it was demonic. and I didn't want to go near him. And so he stayed outside, but he could see his commander

having this kind of telepathic communication going on with him, right? And his commander was a fundamentalist Christian? Yeah. And so how, what was the communication like? That he didn't say. He just said that it was telepathic. He could tell that they were having this telepathic.

Well, he probably afterwards got it confirmed by his commander that it was all telepathic. They weren't talking. You could just see that they were having this kind of communication. Did he seem honest to you? Oh, yes. Oh, yes.

So you think that happened? Yeah, I do think that happened. I think that happened, you know? So you think we have alien beings at S4? Well, no. No, all I know is I think that there was one there at that time. At that time. And that he saw him.

And that he stayed outside. And the military guys that were there showed him these cards. He said they had these index cards. that, and it didn't say whether they were typed up or printed, but they had the questions and answers that were there, of things they'd ask him, right? And so they had a little record of interviews that had been conducted with him.

And one of them, he said that they asked him, you know, so where are you guys from? What are you doing here? And he said that, you know, he was part of a group of people of beings from different star systems in our galaxy, he said, and that their job was to go around monitoring where life had started in different planets

inside the galaxy, and that that was what they did. And that's what they were doing here. And he said, they asked him, well, who tasked you to do that? You know, who's in charge of that? And he said, well, it's what you people would refer to as God,

but it's very different than you think. Then how is it different? He didn't say. Whoa. And he said, but I didn't believe him, he said. Because I thought he was demonic. And so I never told anybody. I never told anybody about this.

Have you ever heard the term Collins elite? Yes. Do you think that this kind of fundamentalist Christian commander was involved in the Collins elite? No, it didn't seem to be. This was kind of an individual thing with him and this guy. Because they also thought that the aliens. stuff was kind of demonic. Oh yeah, no, no, there's a whole stream of that in the fundamentalist world. You know, I've got, you know, that Sarah's sister-in-law is a big fundamentalist, you know,

and she will, she thinks the whole thing is demonic. It's a meme. Have you ever interviewed, I mean, I'm sure part of it is and part of it might be angelic and, you know, it's like probably I think that it's because people don't understand that whole part. People don't understand angelic. It's probably good and bad is probably way too simplistic of a frame for whatever they're operating on. And I'm sure they're good ones that incidentally do violence to you because if they're kind of, you know, field or whatever once you, you know, it's like St. Francis. St. Francis of Assisi has a vision of this, you know, kind of, you know, winged angel being. It was a flaming torch in the original translation, but as a seraphim,

And it does violence to him, but it's like, that becomes part of his conversion towards God and it ends up sort of killing him. But I think the sort of good, bad, you know, dichotomy is probably an earthly one. Yeah, well, there's, there's an awful lot of anthropomorphic projection, you know, onto these folks. Because they, because they're so much like us. I mean, you know, that's a real challenge. Have you ever met an alien? No. Would you want it?

Sure. Really? Sure. Yeah. I'd like to sit down. and chat with them. Yeah. And actually figure out, you know, how to kind of represent us, you know, in a full way about good and bad stuff that we do, all of us, you know, but try to figure out what the criteria are for trying to establish a relationship of trust with them

and how we could trust them. What can they do to kind of assuage the concerns that people have about them in their kind of secretive ways, you know. Have you ever seen, so you've seen picture of a UFO, which was in the Blue Book files, and a skiff in D.C. And you even traced. It wasn't a skiff, though. Oh, it wasn't a skiff, okay.

It was just this room that they had downstairs in the Madison. And you traced the symbols that were along the edge of the craft. I did that. Have you ever seen anomalous material? No. I've seen photographs of the thing that Hal. had i've seen photographs what what thing that howe had that piece of metal that's got like 17 different layers of of different is that magnesium bismuth yes yeah yeah i've just seen the layers thinner than a

micron or whatever yeah that's right that's the one i've seen photographs what do you think of you know how put off this sort of godfather architect of the space he's just uh you know seems to have his hand in everything um what do you think of howl and his role and kind of UFOLG. I think Hal is more knowledgeable in depth about this whole thing than most any of the people that you would meet, you know, can, and know, you know, in that. Do you think he says everything he knows? No. Oh, no, no. He doesn't even pretend to.

Uh-huh. No, he doesn't even pretend to say everything he knows. Do you think he's worked on a craft or seeing a craft? Oh, I'm sure he has. You're sure he has? Oh, no, I'm completely sure he has. Really? Yeah.

Do you think he knows how they fly? No, he has a better idea of how they fly than most anybody. You know, there may be some technicians that know more about some details. Do you think he understands a lot about sort of, I don't know, the mental networks and that sort of thing? Do you think he's sort of clued into that? Yeah, oh, I mean, that's his major focus. Stargate is is yeah what's the connection between remote viewing and you know so you had these guys in the remote viewing program like Stargate you know formed by the CIA and later run out of the

the DIA 1972 he um you know that some of these guys like Ingo swan would like remote view alien bases on the moon and things like that but do you think i talked to Ingo about it did you yeah I spent like a whole day with Ingo in no way apartment in New York what did it would Ingo say about the alien basis. It was interesting that my access to him came through the Church of Scientology thing. You know, that that's a big deal.

Yeah. That Church of Science, that helped put off at Church of Scientology and in Targ, Russell Targ was Church of Scientology. All kinds of the guys were such a time. And to catch people up, you kind of won Elron Hubbard's favor by, you know, there was a case against

them around, you know, special exemption, you know, as a religious organization. And there were, you know, I think they were, they were being bugged for a little bit, and they were sort of trying to plug the federal government. They were trying to track the federal government, too. They had the door of their headquarters, the chain saw it off. Right. By the IRS. And then you, you were sort of helping them out, and then you made it, you were about to, like, sign on formally as their counsel, and then you asked them for their. No, no, that wouldn't be the way to look. I was asked to be their counsel. You were asked to be their counsel. And I

said, look, as a condition precedent to even begin to talk with Ron Hubbard, because he wanted to meet with me and try to persuade me to become the lawyer for him and his wife specifically, not necessarily for the church, but for him and his wife. And that the head guardian from North America came to my office at the Jesuit headquarters and said that Mr. Hubbard would like to talk with you about becoming the lawyer for him and his wife, Susan. And I said, well, I said, look, as a condition precedent to even being willing to meet with him, to talk with him, I'd have to be given permission to have access to whatever records or information there is anywhere in the world about the church. And I said, I assume that's a total non-starter, right?

And they give you their records. Within a week, they came back and said, it's a deal. No way. What do you want to see? So you could query anybody's e-meter results? Yeah, anything. I could get anything I wanted. And so they flew me down to Florida, and the big blue cube they've got down there, this big, huge blue building.

And so I go in, and there's the head of the Guardian's office, U.S. Guardian's office, and the international head of the Guardians, you know, out of the U.K. And they say, so what do you want to see? And I said, well, first, what I want to see is the file you got on me. in the American guy. He said, no, why, no, we've got, I don't know. And I said, excuse me. I said, what, you think I fell off some melon wagon somewhere? I said, you know, you're going to have me to be Elron Hubbard's turning.

You don't have any file on me at all? And the international guy says, go get him the file. You know, so they bring me the file. I'm going through. How deep was it? How much stuff did they have? Well, they had, you know, pictures of me. You know, I was a Jesuit candidate.

I was at the headquarters. You know, they would follow me around. They showed me in different restaurants, you know, and meeting with people, you know, Mark Lane and some of the other guys. You know, they saw the-Lane. He was like Kennedy assassination investigation. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, you know, they had all these kind of things. And so I said, okay, good. I just wanted to make sure that it was, that it was accurate, you know? And then so the international guy says, and he said, okay, so what else do you want to see? I said, I want to see the three most sensitive files in the entire world, according to you as the head of the Guardian's office.

you know, and he just went, oh, fuck, he said. I said, so either you get him or not. You know, so he gets up and he's gone and Rebels is around, comes back, and he ends up laying one of the files in front of me. And I started looking at it, and it was all reports by Ingo Swan. Ingo Swan was filing reports with the head guardian office in the UK about the entire internal operations of the Office of Naval Intelligence, remote viewing program that they were doing.

He was just giving him all the information. So he was a spy or something? Yeah. He was a spy for the Church of Scientology. For the Church of Scientology. Over and against the Office of Naval Intelligence. Why would he do that? Because he was a high level clear.

That was his loyalty group. So he was loyal to them prior to... That's right. That's right. Over and above. Because I always thought Put-off was looking into that stuff because he was like an NSA guy. before he was Scientology guy.

So I thought put off was just tasked to like looking into this, you know, very, you know, para-governmental intelligence organization that is Scientology, that's seen as a threat. And so, you know, get put off in there. No, this was a stuff. I mean, the Church of Scientology,

you're not aware of it, that their highest principle in the Church of Scientology is all to do with UFOs. Really? Yeah, they believe, that there's a major confrontation going on between the human-like people from the Pleiades over and against the reptilians from Zeta-Ratuclite.

And that there's a major confrontation going on over which of them is going to actually assert major relations with our planet. Do you agree with that world view? No, I don't... But Swan was like fully... And with the Scientologist, he was giving them information on the Office of Naval Intelligence. All of it. And so you're also saying that there's a remote viewing program that was deeper than Stargate?

Because that wasn't Office of Naval Intelligence. That was the DIA after CIA. Yeah. No, this was a program. And Pat Price, I'll give you some idea how deep this goes. Pat Price, you know, they had the file, Ingo Swann had the file that Pat Price had gotten so good at remote viewing that they assigned him a task of, they gave him the exact longitude and latitude down to the minute and second location. And he was assigned an artist so that he didn't have to do these. Henscratches trying to show it.

But he was, and he was saying, you know, I, so what's there? So there's this major building here. And there's big, big fence up, there was razor wire on the top of it and everything. And his facilitator was, was Russell Tark. And so Russell was saying, okay, now can you get inside the fence? Can you see anything inside the fence? And he goes, okay, all right, yeah, I can see inside the fence. There's just this no man's land there.

Can you get to the front door of this place? And he said, all right. He said, okay, I got it. Yeah, okay, I'm in front of the front door. He said, can you go inside the building? He said, let me see here. Okay, yeah, yeah, I can see inside the building here. He said, so what do you see?

This is this big lower hallway. There's some doors on both sides. And Russell said, now go down to the third door on the left. And he said, okay. And he said, can you go into the room? Yeah, I can go into the room. So what do you see? Well, there's a big desk there and chairs and stuff. There's a big file cabinet over in the right corner over here. Go over to the file cabinet. There's a second drawer, first file. Read it to him. And he did. What was it? Well, that's not the point. The point is that he did it. And he can do it. You know, it turns out it's an American facility. It's a top CIA security facility. Yeah, but that's insane then. So anybody with remote viewing skills can get the nuclear codes?

Not anybody, but Pat Price could. The best. So that's Pat Price, right? And in the same file, it points out that Pat Price had actually evolved to the point where they could take a full photograph of a boomer-class Russian submarine, nuclear submarine, and show it to him and say, where is it? Right now. and he would give him right down to the exact

longitude and latitude down to the minute and second of exactly where that is. And he visualized the whole thing and told him exactly where it was but there was a huge UFO right over the top of the water where that thing was and it was tracking it and monitoring it.

And he got it in the file. I'm going, whoa! I said this is pretty wild. and then I said, okay, so what else are you got? You know, he says, well, here. And I said, show me the second file. And he showed me the second file. And it was, again, from Ingo Swan.

It was a deep inside report from Ingo Swan. They had taken Pat Price in the program up to southern Canada, south central Canada, just north of the state of Michigan. and he brought him to this little facility. It was like this little domed little building and they had these big huge dishes on top, these communication dishes on top. And they brought him in, and they set him down,

and they put this helmet on him, and they had him think a particular message. And they turned all the big antenna down to the northern peninsula of Michigan, that little section that's in there, and had him be telepathically projecting, you know, when it comes time to you to file your national, your U.S. income tax forms next year, file them in this little post office box down this little town down in West Virginia. And 85% of the people did it next year.

No way. Absolutely way. That's insane. Do you keep saying that? So you're saying that. You're saying that you're saying that Scientology had some sort of mass mind control. There wasn't the Church of Scientology. What was it?

This was the program. That was the program. The opposite of naval intelligence. This was the program. But that's like the implications of that are crazy. No, they're profound. Yeah. And so then I, from then.

Yeah. See, Matt Ingo Swan. Yeah, I didn't say no to them. But as soon as I saw the file on the fair game, I knew I wasn't going to do it. But I had the opportunity to go see Ingo. So I contacted and go and said, you know, I'm being asked to be the lawyer for Hubbard. And, you know, I want to chat with you. So I went to see him at his apartment in New York.

And we go all the way upstairs up onto the roof of his apartment he's got there. And then I started talking to him. And I didn't want to freak him out over the fact that he was clearly violating his security clearance, you know, by providing these reports to, the Church of Scientology. So he was using his remote viewing from Stargate in the reports that he was giving to the Church of Scientology. Yeah, he was finally not only about his work, but Pat Price's work. You know, the other stuff, all the things that he was doing, he was reporting to the guardians. So he's basically like, he was a back channel spy to the Church of Scientology on behalf of them vis-a-vis the federal government of the U.S. It was clearly his, his major,

loyalty, well, allegiance was to them. Did you ask him about, because he wrote a book called penetration about seeing bases, alien bases on the moon? I hadn't seen,

I hadn't seen that. You hadn't seen that? Did you get into the alien thing at all with him? Oh yeah. Because he, because he, in one of his reports, had a report in there about,

it was, it was, uh, uh, how put off. It was Tard. Russell Targ had been facilitating a remote viewing by Pat Price. When they stepped it up from him being able to remote view things in real time

to be able to be shown a photograph of a Russian boomer submarine. And then he could locate it. He could figure out exactly where it was down to the minute and second of longitude and latitude. I mean, which was the big deal. You know, I mean, that's the big deal. Yeah. And when they found it, when they found it and verified that it was there through the remote viewing others to find it, there was a UFO hovering right over the top of where the Russian boomer submarine was going under the water. And it was monitoring it.

And when I saw it, I just went, whoa. Can you see a photo? No. Okay. told me about it. It was a written report that it was there. And it was just, it was following right along where the Russian boomer submarine was going, you know. And that was the only piece that was in there, except when I, when I started interrogating people, you know, because I wanted to get as much advantages as I could of the opportunity that I had here to get information. So I got to

meet the guy who was legal counsel for the church to ask him to explain to me, you know, what the net, not of all this was, you know, what were they up to here? And what it is is that they, they considered themselves entitled to being considered a sovereign entity. Mm. Because the Catholic Church was. So the Catholic Church has this kind of status of being a sovereign entity in a nation, basically, because they have Vatican State, right? So they, they insisted that as a matter of First Amendment, equal protection, that they were entitled to take under themselves the same status. And so that's what, caused them to be engaged in this fair game program.

They believed that they had a right to engage in like wet operations, you know, like the United States does and Russia does and all of that, which they asserted, you know, the Vatican does, they have said. Do you think that the Vatican and that specifically maybe the Knights of Malta had anything to do with the UFO kind of reverse engineering or transport or oversight? I think that an element of the Knights of Malta have something to do with everything. And why do you think that? Because of the people that there were in this Monte Carlo group.

There's a thing called the Monte Carlo group that is at the top of the entire Nizumalta structure. And I discovered that there were non-Catholics in it, which didn't make any sense to me at all. Because Nights of Malt is a Catholic men's club like thing. But there's this high, executive council that turned out that Henry Kissinger was on it. And George Bush Sr. Was that who's Episcopal? That's amazing. But if I were to play devil's advocate, I could have said, Council of Foreign Relations, Bilderberg, you know, like I could name five other organizations that those two guys were a part of. Any other reasons to believe they had something

to do with the UFO thing specifically? No, just not specifically, but I'm saying is that anybody who is at that level dealing with international things would have to be involved in this. There's no way that you're not going to be involved in this. Because, I mean, you could be involved in all the other stuff and it wouldn't make any difference ultimately. You know, I mean, this whole thing could, to use a phrase, Trump, you know, everything. What is the, is there kind of a mandate or, you know, constitution for the Knights of Malta? I mean, the only references I really have are, you know, Bougart, the Maltese falcon, they were supposed to be the guardians of this Maltese falcon. And I believe there are also the heirs to the hospitaliers. You know, there was the kind of

Templars back in the day, sort of, you know, pre-13th century when they were, they were disbanded, I guess, 14th century. And then they were kind of the guardians of these pilgrims that would go to the Temple Mount in, you know, Jerusalem. And then the medic side of that was the hospitaliers. And so that sort of, there's some lineage between that. and, you know, Knights of Malta. But otherwise, I don't really understand, you know, what they do. I know they have sovereign status and they can kind of... They do.

They're a military. They're a military order. And they're a sovereign. They're a sovereign military order. And it's very clear that, you know, the guys like Reinhard Gaelin was in the Knights of Malta. He was a former Nazi? Yeah.

Reinhard Gailen is the guy that was ahead of the anti-Soviet and anti-Eastern black intelligence for the Third Reich. and also became the director of intelligence for West Germany at the end of World War II, you know, at the behest of our OSS. We got him put in there, you know, and Shackley worked directly with him, you know. Yeah, and also Adoskorsani. Another former Nazi. Yeah, Otto Scorzani who ran the rat line, you know, of smuggling them all out of there.

And they were knights of Malta passports. that were used. Did you, I mean, you're a Jesuit, did you ever use your Jesuit connections to figure out more about the Magenta Crash, which was supposedly recovered, you know, according to David Grush. It was recovered in Lombardi in 1933.

And I believe the Cardinal of Milan was also of Knight of Malta at the time. And the UFO supposedly made itself to the Vatican, where it was held for a while. And then I think Pope Pius the 6th, maybe, then, you know, transferred it over to the U.S.

It's the 11th. The Pope Pazzi 11th, okay. Transferred it over to the U.S. So do you know anything about that? No, I didn't, actually. It's interesting. Do you believe that's a real case? It's interesting.

I didn't know about it. Okay. I didn't know about it until comparatively recently. Okay. So that one never came across the radar. Yeah. So I had been pretty well locked down on. You got to hit up your Vatican context.

Yeah, right. Yeah, right. Those that are still alive anyway. You know, I mean, they're all dead. I couldn't believe it. I mean, virtually everybody that was there in the staff when I was there all passed away. Damn. It's totally bizarre.

But the bottom line is I didn't know about that one at all. And no one has ever said anything to me about it. You know, and when I talk to Johann Ix, who was the head of the Vatican archives, you know, he's just always just smiled. I mean. Has it gave you a smile? a smile of quiet knowing? Oh, yeah.

Oh, yeah. No, he knows. Because I sent the letters to them from Jesuit headquarters to ask for access for President Carter. So he doesn't give you a befuddled laughing smile or something? No, no. It'd be perfectly easy for them to say, like, there's nothing to this. You're crazy.

Okay. No, but no, he knows, he knows that I know. Interesting. That stuff is there. Interesting. And he just isn't going to let me have it. So you, you were the lawyer for John Mack, who's the head of the Harvard Psychiatry Department.

apartment and childhood friend of Bud Hopkins towards the end of his career, he started to take very seriously these, uh, uh, experiences. People would experience abductions or alien contact. And often it would come out in hypnotic regression or through holotropic breathwork, which was one of his favorite kind of modalities. That was. And, um, you have his final manuscript. Mm-hmm. They do. And he writes about, I heard at the end of his life, he started to get into reptilians and was like interested in reptilians specifically. I don't know. Is there anything interesting in that final manuscript that sort of shows his overall worldview at the end of this, you know, decade plus long inquiry into the UFO alien question? Yeah, he, he really views the

entire UFO ET issue as a, as a, as a window opening onto the functioning of worldviews. You know, and our human family to really explain. I had something to do with that because that's what I was talking to him about. He and I, just before he got killed, we were planning on trying to set up a thing called. When you say he got killed, was that, do you think it was intentionally or accidentally? Yamava Resort and Casino at San Manuel is California's number one entertainment destination for today's superstars. Catch the Jonas Brothers return to the Yamava Theater stage on April 30th. The powerful vocals of Demi Lovato on May 17.

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Yeah, I was on that within hours after it happened. So sad. Dug it out and knew who the guy was. The guy's still in prison that ran down. It was just drunk. And, you know, yeah. And so that the, that John and I were talking about the fact that this was a, actually the name of his manuscript is when world views collide. And, you know, I'll dolovsky, all that, you know, from when worlds collide.

So that's what he did. It's when world views collide. Yeah. And what was the Velikovsky? What was the, Wailokovsky? What was the one, when Worlds Collide, what was that about? It was the world's collided. It's an old classic piece that Velikovsky wrote.

It's the theory that the asteroid belt is another planet that was here in our solar system. And it collided with the moon or something. I just remember it. Oh, yeah, that's right. It's like the Khyber belt or something. Yeah. The whole asteroid belt is really that planet. all blown up into shrapmel, basically, all through the asteroid belt.

And so Mac was saying when worldviews collide, like the kind of Western materialist reductionist worldview and the animistic worldview or something, one that encapsulated life beyond humans. If you want to shatter the Western mental structures, the Western minds, so to speak, which is now permeating the whole Earth in its materialist dualistic philosophy, The way you do it is you take something that's supposed to be in the spirit world. Because even in the West we can make allowance for the spirit world, that we can study it through mythology, through religion, through imagination, through poetry.

But the one unforgivable sin to the Western mind is when something that should be in the spirit world transgresses and shows up in the physical world. That traffic is the cardinal sin for the Western mind. So it has great power to shatter the belief structure of a Western mind when that occurs. And that's precisely what's occurring in this abduction phenomenon. And so he started really starting to perceive things. Because I was some assistance in that. Because I had done the master's degree work and then started the Ph.D. work at Harvard on that very issue.

Trying to understand things. When you get a really complex issue, what you want to do is figure out what the kind of operational pieces of it are so you can get them spread out in front of just like a plane wreck. You know, you want to kind of reassemble the pieces that you can recover and take a look at it. And what this does is it tends to shake down into this octave of human worldviews, you know, that the, that only one aspect of which is their political manifestation, you know, that runs from right to left, you know, from the authoritarian to the reality. to the reactionary, to the conservative,

to the moderate, to the liberal, to the progressive, to the utopianist. You know, that there's a, there are integrated worldviews. They're internally, self-referentially consistent. You know, and that they're all predicated upon the answers that you provide to these four pillar questions

about the origins of the universe, the kind of end product, the teleological outcome of the universe is projected, you know, what the analogical relationship, between consciousness and the material manifestation of reality is the big one and the epistemological question is, you know, that what means do we have at our disposal as human beings by means of which you can possibly answer questions like that? Are we limited to our five senses or do we have other faculties? Do we have other kind of carisans that we have access to that have been

hidden or suppressed? You know, those are the fundamental questions. Those are those are the the sort of cosmic questions. And since we don't have the definitive answer to any of those yet, the way, as long as you have an internally and self-referentially consistent answer to all four of those questions, you have a worldview. It's a systematic worldview. And if you can discern what the common principle is that makes all of them similar to each other, the answers are consistent with each other, you apply that principle to,

any question that you confront in making your judgments. And then you have a philosophy. That's what a philosophy is. It's a consistent application of a single principle that is generic to all four of these fundamental questions. If you can do that, and that's what a philosophy is. And then you have a subcomponent of that, your political philosophy,

and then you have a mode of spiritual expression, which is generic to that. That's where you get these major world religion. that are generic to a particular worldview. You know? And so I was starting to explain all that to him that I discovered, you know, when I actually went back to talk to John Rawls,

who's the head of the Department of Philosophy at Harvard, you know, when I was running into these conflicts that I was having with the different lawyers and the firms where I was, you know, they all seemed to be functioning on some different way. So what did Mack think, you know, when what would happen when worldviews collided And when, uh, he, he believes that it's absolutely clear that there's that the initial response

that we have as human beings, as homo sapien to an encounter with an extraterrestrial being, uh, is that it, it, uh, kind of shatters, uh, the, the kind of, uh, walls, uh, of the room, uh, the mansion of our worldview, you know, uh, that all of a sudden, uh, the walls, uh, that all of a sudden, that things are so completely different than anything you'd ever assume before that your world can fall apart, as it were. And so people, and people have this kind of cellular response when you find yourself actually confronted with an extraterrestrial being that your whole cellular system reacts in a kind of a fight or flight way

that your subconscious doesn't have any control over. It's just, you just freak out. You know, and so we started deciding that what we wanted to do is help train people that had consistent, repeated encounters, you know, because we found that to be a fairly common theme, that if you've been abducted once, you've been usually abducted more than once, right? And so that if it's going to happen again to try to train a person through holotropic breathing to kind of just calm themselves down and to get centered to try to get mastery over that kind of. cellular response that your body has. Because all of us that are alive right now are the end of the chain of survivors. I mean, that's what's distinguished us, you know, that our lineage have all survived. Yeah.

And gotten us through to where we are now. He's talking about almost like a manual for being physiologically ready for contact. That's right. Absolutely right. To try to overcome the cellular imprint that we have in us to react like that. The allergic reaction. Yeah. And it is like if you're, you know, like the three-body problem, if you're in the dark forest and you are afraid of making contact, it's actually adaptive to sort of hide yourself, you would want to know that the other side is sort of receptive and stable and going to be okay.

Yes, yes. You know, when you appear. That's right. Because if you, you know, cause this. Oh, they get in trouble. I mean, you know, Karen, one of the, they used to throw things at them. I mean, she'd throw lamps out. She was one of Max patients.

She was one of the ladies. That's still a little crazy. Yeah. she was one of the first people who really got the holotropic breeding training. So are you going to release this book? Or what are you, what are you planning on? I haven't, I haven't ever, he just gave it to me because he was getting set to go to England to do this lecture on T.E. Lawrence and wanted me to go through it because it covers

a lot of the encounter we had with the faculty committee. Yeah. It's kind of his account of what happened. He was such an interesting guy. Well, he won a Pulitzer Prize. for his book called The Prince of Disorder, which is about... The Prince of Our Disorder. Prince of Our Disorder about T.E. Lawrence.

He was Lawrence of Arabia. Yeah, it was a psycho biography of Lawrence. Who, I believe, was he was gay, and he had been sort of sexually assaulted multiple times, and he had this sort of crazy, and then he led this uprising, you know, and... He's a pretty fascinating character. Fascinating character, and Mack himself was such a fascinating character. I feel like his search for the UFO and alien question was kind of motivated by some autobiographical stuff with his mother who I think, did she die during childbirth or when he was very young? No, no, no.

In fact, his mother played this really kind of major role. Okay. Because when he first got dragged up, when he first started encountering these high-level military officials that were ordered to get a psychiatric exam to try to deter them from really. pressing any farther on this. It was the first thing that would happen that they'd be ordered to get a psychiatric exam. Because they'd seen an alien or something? Yeah, because they wanted to file a report. They wanted to file a report about, you know, an UFO encounter. And they were always told that, you know, like, you don't want to do this. This is not good for your career. Did John Mack, was he kind of abreast of any of the UFO stuff from his Navy experience? Or no, it came later.

No, nothing. No. He was a complete agnostic, you know, to start with. And then he got sent these like, like, uh, Arnne Arnelson, who was the, the, the,

uh, the, the, uh, the, the, the, the,

the, the, the minute man, maumum, Momsstrom, uh, that, uh,

that he was the actual commander that, the, the, filed the report with NORAT. Uh, about it all. Uh, and then they said,

are you, are you trying to file a UFO report? Is that what you're doing here? And he said, yes. He said, it was the most important moment of his life. He just said,

yes, I am. He said, I'm not letting this one go, you know, because they shut off all of them. They shut off ten silas. Independent, independently wired nukes, Minutemen. Yeah. Yeah. And so he was adamant that he was going to get that filed. And so, you know, he and a number of other high-ranking military people have been sent to John Mack at Harvard is the head of the Department of Clinical Psychiatry to do the psychiatric workup on these guys.

And after a half a dozen of these folks, he started saying, wait a second. This doesn't make any sense at all. He said, you know, these are high-ranking military people. There's lawyers and doctors. There's all kinds of people that are coming to report these things. It doesn't make any sense. And so he started this actually kind of like a little investigation. And he would train them to do the holotropic breathing and get them calm down and centered, right?

And then he was asking them questions. Okay, now you're inside the craft. Look around and tell me what you're seeing. And he was getting them to give little reports on these totally esoteric things. you know, that nobody would really make up, you know, and then he would see if other people saw similar stuff, you know, and he was verifying. And so he started got to the point where he said,

wait a second, there's something really happening here with these people. And so he called his mother, so she didn't die in trouble. So he called her, and she said, oh, you ought to check with, with, the, uh, Bud, the Hopkins kid,

you know, that he's into this stuff, you know, even though he's a sculptor and artists and all that kind of stuff. But, you know, that,

uh, our families are close and you ought to, he knows a lot about this. And so that's how it happened is that he ended up talking to Bud Hopkins and Hopkins said, oh, look, let me show you,

you know, and he started giving him a lot more people. And so, but by the time he contacted me, you know, he'd interviewed like a hundred people. Wow. You know?

who'd had these experiences. And so that, and so he ended up calling me, and when he got confronted by this faculty committee, and they called me and asked me if I would legally represent him. And so I went there and confronted the faculty committee, you know, but very fortunately went with John to meet with Lawrence Rockefeller, and Lawrence Rockefeller told us all about, you know, his best friend seeing a UFO.

That's why he was convinced it was true. Yeah, Lawrence Rockefeller was a patron for a lot of early UFO research. He funded John Mack. He funded Stephen Greer. I think Whitley Stryber has told me a story about meeting with Lawrence Rockefeller in Wyoming and the Teton's at his ranch or whatever. Why do you think Lawrence Rockefeller was so interested in the subject? So you mentioned that his friend had an experience. That's interesting.

Whitley is the Prince of Lichtenstein. Hans Adams. Whoever it was. That's all I want. He's apparently extremely interested in UFOs. It was his best friend. I think he thinks that Jesus is going to come down on a saucer or something. It's like some eschatological worldview.

I don't. I didn't know. And he gathered, the guy named John Brandenburg, who I interviewed, said that Prince Hans Adams had gathered all of the Roswell witnesses. I think in the 70s or something, or the 80s. I don't know. you know and that he wanted to speak to all of them and kind of you know yeah understand what had happened oh yeah so he was very interested in this well that in in in lord told us that you know because

he said that's why he was so convinced that it was true that his friend who was the prince of lichtenstein had seen one uh and that had actually walked right up onto one you know that was in that was up in the mountains very similar to a to an experience of one of the guys that i knew you know the the the son of Bill Toddman. You know, Mark Goodson and Bill Todman. Mark Goods and Bill Toddman were the guys that used to produce I Love Lucy and the $64,000 question in that tune. All those kind of quiz-y shows kind of things back in the 50s. It made millions, you know, and I was out, I was out at the, we were, we were,

Mace Neufeld and Bob Ramey had contacted me, the guy that do all the Tom Clancy. movies. They wanted to do the Iran-Contra movie. And so they contacted me to talk with him down in L.A. And I was down in the office with Bob Ramey, who was the president of the Academy of Virus in Science. He was the head of the Oscars thing, you know. And so we were talking with him and his executive, his exec, his name, I forgot his name. But anyway, that he contacts me and said, he said, look, there's a friend of mine that wants to talk to you. You know, would you, he told me not to say who he is,

but would you trust me to take you there to him? So I said, okay, we'll do that. So we went out and, oh, the guys, we go out, get into this big red Cadillac convertible and we drive off into Warner Brothers. And we go over the Warner Brothers lot, and we go in, and it turns out that it's Bill Todman's son of Martin Goodson and Bill Toddman. So here's his son, who's now an exec in Warner Brothers, you know, and he wanted to tell me about an experience that he had had. And he was in college, and he was on summer break, and he was in the Teton's outside of Boulder.

And he was climbing in the Teton's, and he came up. into this meadow and there was a UFO just sitting right, hovering right there in the meadow. And he walked all the way over to it and put his hand on it. He said, and it was like alive. He said, this is alive, this thing, you know? And then the whole thing started kind of shuddering and raised up, so he backed away from it

and he just went and shot away. Whoa. And he didn't dare tell anybody because he thought that it would ruin his whole reputation and stuff in the industry. But it turns out that he said that his father, Marg Goodson, senior, or Bill Todman, Sr., was best friends with, he's this big famous author that writes these romance novels. Anyway, and he wrote a book about it, partly because Bill Todman Jr. told him that he'd had this experience. He wrote a thing called the Dune's Day, the Dune's Day, Dunesday Plan or something.

Who's the author? Sidney Sheldon, his name was. And he wrote like 50 of these, you know, books, you know, made millions of dollars. He, too, wouldn't dare ever be public about it. So he wrote this book called The Doomsday Project, you know, a hypothetical of a saucer, that had crashed in a tour bus over in Italy or somewhere. It happened to be driving by when they were doing a recovery of it. And so this young lieutenant colonel in the Naval Intelligence

was assigned to find out where all the people were, that were on the bus that saw this, because they just wanted to explain to them that this was just an experimental thing so that they wouldn't be distressed. Well, it turns out they all started getting killed. all these witnesses. And so Cindy Sheldon wrote this book. It's a complete fiction about it.

And that's the only time he ever said anything about it. Wow. And then went right back to his normal life. Wow. And so Bill Todman Jr. wanted me to know about this just to tell me. And so I've been constantly trying to get him over the years. And say, why don't you...

Go public, yeah. You got more money than the Pope, you know. Now for your inheritance, why don't you... You won't do it? He still hasn't... agree to do anything. Well, you've done it for him now. Yeah. Because he was perfectly honest about it. I didn't have any doubt that it was true. Sure, sure. Yeah. Well, he's a real nice guy. Yeah. But it still hasn't done anything. Danny, it's exciting times right now. Do you have a prediction for the

next three months of disclosure and the UFO truth getting out? Some of it's easy. So, you know, the Senate bill is going to get repassed, you know, all 64 pages, exactly the same. Senator Rounds. Rounds is going to sponsor it. South Dakota. Yeah, from South Dakota. He's going to sponsor it. And I'm sure that,

that, that, the, the, the, Schumer will co-sponsor. We don't, we don't, we don't have,

uh, Marco around anymore. Rubio. Rubio to sponsor, but, but, you know, we're hoping to try to get state department in on this. Okay.

Because there's this whole state department dimension that, It's totally inappropriate for the State Department not to have been brought in on this. I mean, you're dealing with an entire foreign power here in that they're being X'd out. So, I mean, now that Rubio is over there, you know, he ought to. Yeah, he's very interested in on record on, you know, this whole topic. Sure he is. Yeah, one of his aides was probably as deep as it gets on the topic as well. And it was sort of, you know, I think encountered a bunch of obstacles as a result of his involvement.

Yeah, yeah. So the bottom line is they're going to, they're going to, the Senate is going to pass the 64 page bill again, probably around the middle of July, between July 15th, 20th or so, that they'll pass it and they'll send it on over the House. You know, we're, we're focusing on Crenshaw. Crenshaw, you know, Dan Crenshaw is now the new head of the Intelligence Committee in the House. And that's where we ran into trouble before. It was primarily Mike Turner, who was the, the, the, the, you know, the. Congressman from Ohio, Wright-Patterson District, you know, was stopping the full bill from being Pat. Is Crenshaw pro-UFO and transparency? We don't know yet. We're trying to get, but he's, he's certainly not

anywhere near as bad as Turner was. You know, Turner had his own personal agenda because of his constituency there, you know, with the base. But Crenshaw's a guy that, you know, a guy that It's, you know, been critical of things he doesn't agree with. He's kind of a bit of a maverick. He's got a lot of integrity, you know, tough guy, you know, he's a seal team dude, you know, but. Eye touch. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

But he's not just kind of a knee-jerk reactionary. Yeah. You know, so he's, there's a real promise there. And so we're going to be meeting with him and his staff to try to get him to see if he can give a leadership in the Intelligence Committee to Greenlight, the full bill, you know, or at least a lot more of it. We've gotten 23 pages of the 64 passed with, unfortunately, some amendments even with that part. Yep.

But the bottom line, what we're after is the appointment of the board, that we want to get that portion of the 64-page bill done at least this time around, is to get the panel appointed, you know. Now, one of the challenges is that, well, our new paradigm institute is one of the groups that's authorized to make recommendations under the statute. But the president is the one ultimately decides who's going to appoint. The Congress can mandate that he do it. They can pass the statute and say the president is to appoint this board, you know. But then he could, you know, he could appoint his daughter, you know, to be on it or whatever. he wants to do. And so we're going to try to appoint, we're trying to recommend a group that is

that is sort of almost beyond, beyond criticism, you know, the kind of people you'd really want to have there. And then hope that that will cause Trump to say, okay, good, that's a good group. Let's have them do it. So we're hoping this year, or at least this side of the next election, this side of the election in 2026 to get an additional chunk of the 64-page bill passed, specifically the part having to do with the board. Okay. And we're going to have, you know, it's going to be a dynamic going on with this board. There are going to be a lot of people inside the national security infrastructure

that are going to want to have people in there that are going to continue to keep it as sphinctered as possible, you know, and then there's going to be lots of people putting pressure on us to try to have it be, you know, here, let's have it all, you know, like Bershette. You know, let's just order the president to reveal everything right now, just dump it on everybody. You know, that's, so there's, there are extremes all around us here. But what we're trying to do is kind of navigate our way through to, to really the dynamic that's going to take place, hopefully between now and November of 2026, you know, Now, we've got the end of September coming here in 2025 when that's the extension that the National Archives has given to the military services and the intelligence community to gather together all the information they've got.

Okay. And that's a standing order that they've got. You know, it's still got that wiggle language in there saying in there to turn it over to the National Archives as soon as possible. You know, the Senate bill said immediately, and they gave them the drop dead date of October 20th, you know, and now they've managed to get the House to water it down, say, as soon as possible. So my sense is their lawyers are going to push back against us. But so I'm not, I'm not, I don't give it more than a 51% chance, you know, that we're going to get any kind of meaningful release of that information. Yeah. And at the end of September here. Well, Danny, you're doing the Lord's work and Godspeed. I'm excited to see what happens in the next few months and years, and you're a really important champion for this whole topic. And I hope that, you know, as much as I love, you know, my own podcast,

I hope that you go on like Tucker Carlson or Joe Rogan or something. And the JFK thing is so important, and I know both are so interested in it. And I didn't, you know, I, I, I, I, I've learned, you know, from Oliver Stone and, you know, read, you know, Mark Lane and Jim Mars and all these guys. And, like, I think you're the best living reteller of the entire story in a way that is a coherent narrative with all of the players, but you also talk about motives. And so I think it would be great if you, if that was amplified as much as possible. No, I'd be happy to do it.

You know, no interview is any better than the interviewer. Uh-huh. Uh-huh. That's true. That's true. Well, I think they're both great, but, I mean, more importantly than that, if they have much bigger platforms than me. I mean, I have a big platform, but there's their next level. So, the biggest in the world. Yeah. They both seem to be sincerely interested, you know, and so that's the key, you know, and they're not particularly biased or prejudice in any way about it. No. And because they straddle different kind of worldviews, you know, and reach out to people that are adherents to different worldviews. It's a valuable forum. Yep.

Both of those guys. Yeah. Well, Danny, it's an honor, man. Appreciate you taking the time. This is always awesome. Yeah. Always learned so much. Not loving your AT&T or T Mobile Bill.

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