American Alchemy with Jesse Michels - Legendary Hip Hop Producer Reveals UFO Obsession (Ft. Flying Lotus)

Episode Date: July 31, 2025

Our American Alchemist this week is @Flying Lotus. One of the most innovative minds in music and film, joins for a raw, unfiltered deep dive into the mysteries of the universe. From Skinny Bob and UFO disclosure to DMT’s otherworldly realms, Spielberg’s hidden knowledge, and the strange overlap of time travel, consciousness, and alien contact, this conversation is a rare fusion of culture, art, and high strangeness. If you’ve ever wondered what happens when one of the most creative artists alive steps into the UFO rabbit hole, this is it. | Flying Lotus | IG ➤ https://www.instagram.com/flyinglotus Website ➤ https://flying-lotus.com/ | Sponsors | Qualia: Take control of your cellular health today. Go to https://qualialife.com/jesse and save 15% to experience the science of feeling younger. Brunt: Get $10 Off @BRUNT with code [JESSE] at https://bruntworkwear.com/JESSE -------------------------- JOIN OUR WHOP (Early Drops/Ad Free) ➤  https://whop.com/jessemichels Patreon  (Early Drops/Ad Free) ➤ https://www.patreon.com/c/JesseMichels Discord ➤https://discord.gg/crHc44m3kF Instagram ➤ https://www.instagram.com/jessemichelsofficial TikTok ➤ https://www.tiktok.com/@itsjessemichels X ➤ https://twitter.com/AlchemyAmerican Spotify ➤ https://tinyurl.com/jessemichelsspotify Clips Channel ➤ https://www.youtube.com/@JesseMichelsClips Website ➤ https://www.jesse-michels.com/ Merchandise ➤ https://www.americanalchemymerch.com/ Media Inquiries ➤ [e-mail] #FlyingLotus #UFO #UAP #Aliens Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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this video is amazing. And I'm like, are y'all still talking about this video? It's clearly See the guy It's like a motherfucker, dude I know I'm here with one of my production heroes

Flying Lotus I feel like I can't even categorize you I have to call you a creative because you are an amazing director You make films You're I think one of the best hip-hop producers ever

Well you come from Maybe the most Kind of interesting musical family I could think of Alice Coltrane is your great aunt? Is that right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. She was like Yoda. You know, she was like a Yoda type

person. When I play it, it makes me recall Egypt, ancient Egypt. It makes me seem to remember that I have a past or a history there somewhere. She just had, she was tapped in, for sure,

to the source. Maybe this is something that we were, you know, connected to a bit earlier in our development as human beings. You know, maybe we were closer to God, closer to the source, closer to the stars. You saw a motherfucking, like, frozen alien or something yourself, right?

You see, like that? I might have. Yeah, I might have. I saw a thing with three fingers and three toes. Isn't Jaime Muson part of that situation? He's a known fraud, so, like, it's all bullshit, isn't it? I think Spielberg knew some shit. And then he looked around the room, he said,

and there are a number of people in this room who know that everything on that screen is absolutely true. People would call in and they're like, we're doing time travel stuff at Area 51. What we're thinking of as aliens, they're extra-dimensional beings that an earlier precursor of the space program made contact with. You know that, don't you?

Maybe you interview me. I'm here with one of my production heroes. flying lotus uh i feel like i can't even categorize you i have to call you creative because you are an amazing director you make films uh you're i think one of the best hip-hop producers ever and um uh yeah man just an all-round awesome guy and and i didn't even know you were interested in UFOs until we started DMing i think on twitter or something and it was that was so surreal to me because i was like i've been listening to this guy for 15 plus years and he's into the stuff I'm putting out. What's going on? It was pretty surreal for me for

you to respond the way you did too because I was just like, you know, I felt like I was reaching out to a few people just to try to get some info and some insight on, you know, what people knew. And you're like, whoa. And you're like, whoa. I was like, whoa, because I've been following you too, you know, so it was a trip. And I mean, I'm really excited to do this. Same, man. Well, you were asking amazing questions. You were like, why can't we just get Lou Elizondo and Kirkpatrick in a room together? Yeah, why not? I'm with you.

It's like, why is that so hard? Why are they? Who's not making it happen? I feel like one of them would love to do it and the other doesn't. Yeah, it's a lot of like cheap shots from afar. It's like, why can't we get Grush and Elon Musk in a room together? Why not? Why not?

Who's afraid? Who's afraid? Well, in my experience, is usually the anti-UFO side that it's like they're hiding something or guarding something. Yeah, and they probably put up that whole front like, oh, I have no time to talk to these people who are, they're clearly liars at all this stuff. So I don't know.

It's kind of bizarre for me, like on the outside where you're just like, you're seeing all this, all this testimony and you're hearing all these things. And then everyone's just kind of like talking in their own little echo chambers and speaking about it. And it's just, it'd be nice to just have a round table with all. all these people. You know, have, what's this, what's that cat? What's the skeptic, the big skeptic?

A Mick West. Mick West. Yeah. Put him in there, you know. Everybody. Yeah, put everybody up. Everybody. Let's just work it out together.

Do you have any favorite UFO or alien conspiracy? Oh, yeah. I love, I love, there's a few. I love, obviously, Bob Lazar's story. Oh, yeah. It's super amazing. Yeah. And that touches on a lot of the stuff on the shirt, for sure.

Bob Lazar story is one of the, It's like one of the gateway drugs. It is the gateway drug. There's another, I forget the cat's name, but the guy who worked at Raytheon. Eric Hecker. Yes, that guy. The dude that said we have a neutrino emitter and detector on a South Pole. Yes, but it also was the reason for the Christchurch earthquake in New Zealand.

Yeah. Crazy. And I love that. I mean, I don't know if it's true, but I just fucking love it. that it's why it's it's such a such a wild idea um and you know i don't know how much it is true i don't know what's real what's not i feel like he must have been there i think there's photos that he was that right there yeah he was there um but you know he said a lot of stuff was like overheard like water cooler talk right so you know who knows what that even means but but yeah

stephen greer fascinating dude you know he hates you bro he hates me he I loved watching that episode of him talking to you, man. I'd never seen him be so fucking mean. He showed up to that meme. Dude, he was like, he was out the gate, like, not fucking with you. He called me a dilatat, like, four times. He said a lot, man. He said a lot.

If you let me finish, I'll tell you. He was like, I, look, I've been in this for 30 years. He was like, you don't really know anything. You're like, okay, I'm sorry. But it's funny, though, man. I was actually on my way here. I was thinking about how, just thinking about the community in general, because ever since I've started liking tweets,

all I get is UFO stuff in my feed. And there's like, you know, the usual suspects who are posting stuff, John Greenwald, and was like UFO Joe. UFO Joe, yeah. UAP Gerb. UAP Gerb. He's amazing. But I always find the, just the auxiliary community so interesting.

Yeah. And I don't really engage with them. I'm kind of a lurker. That's good. That's a better position to be in, trust me. But there was one time, there was one time I jumped in to a conversation. It was about, it was one of those UFO accounts that I was talking about the skinny bob stuff. Oh, yeah.

And, like, the Skinny Bob video. And I was like, there were people just talking about like, oh, you know, this video is amazing. And I'm like, are you all still talking about this video? It's clearly seen the guy. It's like a motherfucker, dude. I said that. And people were pissed. They were mad.

They were like, who's this blue check I had never heard before? He got a whole bunch of followers on. Like, he's sending disinformation out there. Like, oh shit, son. Like, people want to believe the shit so bad. They want to believe it so bad. And I feel bad now because we're in the time we're like, we're making all these crazy AI videos and all this stuff. And it's just like, man, these people, they're, I feel bad.

No, it's a religion for most people that are into it. Yeah. Because they're like, if this stuff is real, it has to incorporate into some larger metaphysical worldview. Right. And then it's like, that's all that matter. It's the only thing because then reality is not. not what it seems. And then you see them get so argumentative and angry and dig their heels.

And if you hit one of the things that they're like sure about. And it's one of the things that's hard about the quote unquote communities. You have to. Dude, I feel bad for you. I feel bad for you. I feel like any time, like after the Joe Rogan thing, I think I saw people just feel like Jesse Michaels is like a paid and somebody fucking working for the government or some shit. Like, you know, you're like the billionaires are in your.

your pocket and all that stuff and like yeah i think 20% of reddit thinks i'm like a CIA agent or something it's ridiculous it's crazy well it's kind of shitty because not only are there like dangerous situations or like seemingly dangerous situations i feel like i'm in vis-a-vis those people right but i'm also and now i'm fucked now you're not you're gonna get stuck right yeah yeah fucking believe the skinny bob video you dick i'm blocking you yeah yeah but i'm saying that you get it on both sides when you get deep enough you get like the conspiracy theorists think that you're part of the establishment right and then the establishment is probably keeping tabs on you and you're like fucking hey this is crazy so thanks yeah thanks oh man well this is

my shit is tap now it wasn't tap before it's just be in here with you know oh that's funny yeah well i don't know where do you think it goes do you think it um what just the whole ufo conversation Do you think this ends with something getting unveiled, the area 51, a saucer and a hangar? Do you think the president makes – I feel like that moment right there, the president makes an announcement. I always think about that. And I always think about how many people would be like, well, Trump said it. I don't believe it.

Right, right. Or than there's the people that are. Trump said it. Well, I definitely believe it. Yeah. But I know that the weight of that is somewhat diminished in this term. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's something about it.

I mean, if he comes out. out and says that shit, everyone's going to be like, well, why did he say that? Totally. What else? What else? Well, we know already, but where's the video? They show you the video. It's like, well, it's AI.

Yeah. Oh, well, I mean, honestly, you got to be like, hey, they got to be here with us. Yeah. You know, and like, it's going to take so much, I think, at this point. You can have material. I got this piece of metal. Scan it. Yeah.

You saw a motherfucking, like, frozen alien or something yourself, right? You see like that? I might have. I might have. I saw a thing with three fingers and three toes. What we call it? The tridactal beings in Peru. From dated from the NASCA period where there's cave art all over there.

One of the bioinformatics genetics people found a mutation that matches a human mutation that involves digit differences on the finger. Crazy stuff. One of them has a fetus that might be tridactal inside of it. Yeah, but eggs, right? One has eggs. Yeah, one has eggs. So it's like... But isn't Jaime Moussan part of that situation?

Yeah, right. These are known fraud. So, like, it's all bullshit, isn't it? And you know? I don't know. I'm just saying. And I met, I spent a lot of time with Jaime. I love Jaime.

I think he's awesome. I went to the unveiling of that in LA. Oh, you did? That's right. I went, yeah, it was like down the street from my house, basically. So I was like, shit, I'm going there. I'm going to check that out. What was your take when, like, on the spot with the, with the,

beings. Well, they didn't have them there. There was a presentation like saying that they are, you know, they were showing the photos and the, the x-rays and all that stuff. Yeah. So it was a little hard to really have an opinion when you don't have, you know, seeing it with, you know. Sure. But I just take it all of a grain of salt. I find it fascinating. It was, I had a great time. Yeah. Met a couple cool people there. Yeah. And left. That's the move, man. You have the right orientation towards this whole subject, which is like, fun and like we'll see what happens. Yeah, we'll see what happens.

I will say though, there's times where I'm like, nah, man, this is real as half, you know, there's been those moments, but then there's been moments where, you know, it's just like, well, of course it's us. Of course it's our technology. Why would they want to say, right? Why would they want to admit that, you know, we're making all these crazy things?

Anti-gravity propulsion. Why would they want to share that with anyone? I think the way to back them into a corner. is you go as deep as you can on the anti-gravity stuff, and then you go as deep as you can on the UFO stuff. And then it's like, okay, unless you have all these fighter pilots lying, then one of these is right, you know? Yeah, yeah.

So I would think. Hey, man, I'm not saying the pilots are wrong, but maybe they're seeing Lockheed Martin's stuff. Yeah. And I don't know. The whole, what, Jay Barber? Jake Barber. Jake Barber.

Yeah. But the Skywisher stuff. That's really fascinating. Super trippy. Really interesting. When Jake Barber came out on that, what was it, with Ross Colhart? When it came out, man, that video, he was like talking the whole time. Me and my buddy was like, all right, let's take a shot if he blinks.

That didn't blink at all. We were sober like my mother-fuddy. But, like, but man, it's really interesting, fascinating stuff. And I don't mean to poke fun or whatever. But I think it's, I mean, if you follow this stuff, I really. do hope that you have a sense of humor about it. You need to. You got to.

It's just like, you know, you get so worked up. People get so worked up over these things. I can tell just by the tweets and seeing stuff. But, yeah, people need to touch grass and be with families, you know. Sometimes people get so heated. I'm like, just rely. It's all good. Yeah.

It's all good. You know, if it is true, your life is not going to change. Yeah. Still going to have to go to work tomorrow. That's right. Yeah. Yeah, whatever it is, at least right now, is like weakly entangled with our reality. Like we are, you got to still be a good person, you got to pay your bills, you got to do all these things that like, yeah, aliens don't really affect it.

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Again, that's J-E-S-S-E for an additional 15% off. That's Q-U-A-L-I-A-L-F-E dot com slash Jesse, J-E-S-E, for an extra 15% off your purchase. Thanks so much to Qualia for sponsoring this episode. And like, I'm sorry if Ross Colhart really knows where there's a giant UFO, he knows where it is. I feel like there's ways of leaking that information that doesn't get anyone hurt. I just interviewed him, and of course I asked him that. Is there anything? Joe Rogan just talked about this.

Everybody talks about this amazing bombshell thing that you reported on. You know what I'm going to say. Yeah. this UFO possibly found that they needed to build a bunker around that was like, you know, a mile plus long, anything you can say about it. I do not resile from saying what I've said previously, which is that there is a buried or at least built upon UFO that was too big to move. And that's it. He did not. Give me the answer.

Something tells me, you know, he might be bending the truth a little bit, you know. I don't know. He implied, and I can say this because he said this to me and it's coming out, he was like, it's an extremely sensitive site that you'd endanger personnel on the ground, like maybe soldiers or something. So that makes me think like current war zone. It's a very sensitive place. That should be enough of a guide for you.

And to reveal. the full extent of what I know would compromise the lives of young men and women who are doing good things for America completely separate from the UAP program and they're probably oblivious to what's sitting downstairs. There's ways to leak information. Yeah. He knows that. Yeah.

You know, it doesn't have to trace back. Come to him. Right. Ross. Yeah. Come on, man. Come on, man. If you can really change the world.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Come on, Ross. That's all. That's it. You know, it's like... I understand his spot, though, too. Because say he hasn't fully corroborated that that's true.

Like, he's somebody told... Then he shouldn't be saying shit. Yeah. He shouldn't be going... Because he's very confident when he says that stuff. Yeah, that's true. So it's different. You know, I remember when the Chinese drones were flying over and he was always like, my sources say this and my sources say that. And he's so confident about sources. And then that sources keep changing the story.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, he just came out with something about the drones recently. His sources did. Yeah, his sources did. He said that something about the drones being American military exercises. Like, yeah. Yeah. So I don't know.

His sources told him it was the Chinese, too, before at first. Right. It was like, there's some, I mean, if anyone out there is really about to change the world with this stuff, I feel like the powers that be might forgive you. Might not go to jail forever. Yeah. Yeah. You know,

I think it's worth, I think it's worth it if you really got the goods. Right. Yeah, like, would you be, would you do it? You'd be the people's champion. I would do it if I wouldn't be torpedoing,

like if it was like a person that was like, you will get me killed or something. Like, I can't do that. But if it was like, you'd be like Julian Assange, dude. Like, you don't want to, you don't want to. But you like, look at where Julian Assange is, man.

But it's not. a lot of fun life. But the difference, though, right? It's like that information is totally different than... True. It's not like you're just going head to head with Mike Pompeo and the CIA. It's totally different. It's like, this is just pro-human.

You'd be the people's champion. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, people like Luigi, man, whatever. Like, yo, that's next level. You could play him in a movie. What's that?

You could play Luigi in a movie. Oh, I'm down. Yeah. I heard Super Mario's brothers were, it was a very high grossing film. Oh, man. Yeah, yeah. You got to pay a pretty penny if you want me as a, you know, rocking my green. I'm talking about the fucking guy who killed the.

Oh. Damn, man. Why are you going to throw that at me? But you know what? He's the people. He was the people's chant. He was the people's chant for a while. I don't quite, you know why.

I mean, I kind of get it. Because United Healthcare sucks, you know? Yeah. Also fuck that guy. Not that he deserved what, whatever happened. Yeah, it's a weird one. I don't think that killing people is the way to the way forward with anything. But, you know, in terms of making a difference and stuff, if you got the goods like that.

Yeah. Like UFO goods like that. I'm like world changing. Come on, man. It's interesting. I think you met my buddy, Chris Ramsey. We were hanging out in Austin. amazing magician has an awesome channel area 52 yeah he asked me on the podcast he was like is it the

logical conclusion that you will be shown a UFO i hadn't even thought of that that maybe personally yeah like that'd be cool like i wonder if like art bell was shown you know art coast and coast like was he shown a UFO like he had these things art parts parts these little bits and pieces of UFO stuff i don't know and i wonder if he was ever given access to anything because he was in Nevada area and like, I don't know, you just had so many crazy, crazy whistleblowers back then. Yeah. It's interesting. People think the whistleblower thing is a new phenomenon. Like, then people would call in and they're like, we're doing time travel stuff at Area 51. They know I'm running from them. I just quit or whatever. Like, people call in saying this

shit. It was crazy. I've kind of been running across the country. Oh, man, I don't know where to start. They're going to be triangulate on this position really, really soon. So you can't spend a lot of time on the phone. So give us something quick. Okay. Okay. What we're thinking of as aliens are, they're extra-dimensional beings that an earlier precursor of the space program made contact with. They are not what they claim to be.

They have infiltrated a lot of aspects of the military establishment, particularly the Area 51. The disasters that are coming, the military, I'm sorry, the government knows about them. and there's a lot of safe areas in this world that they could begin moving the population to now, Art. But they're not doing anything. They're not. They want the major population centers wiped out so that the few that are left will be more easily controllable. Discharged. well

this was certainly interesting we are now on a backup system everybody a backup system and uh... you had that one caller that i had on the air i guess we're about in the middle of his transmission his telephone call which was one of the strangest ones i've ever had and the entire transmitting system by satellite went down here and we were notified we were off the air

and it would appear to be from this end and some sort of massive transmit failure. So we are now using a backup system to be on the air. And not that I would normally believe this kind of thing, mind you, but I can't help but wonder if somebody zapped us in some way. Yeah, man. I mean, look, if they got the goods, someone needs to say something, or else you're just going to get a bunch of the same stuff that we've been seeing.

It's going to take a lot to move the needle, I think, at this point. You know, everyone's, like, waiting for that movie with The Age of Disclosure or come out or whatever. Like, that's going to make a difference. It's just going to be another same people talking the same thing. And shown nothing different. So we'll see what happens. Yeah, I'm curious, man.

I'm going to watch it, though. What's that? I'm still watch it, though. Oh, me too. It's a great. movie. Do you, will you help with the whole thing by making a movie about one of these stories? Well, yeah, I would, I would like to try my hand at it. I get a little discouraged because I know old Spielberg's coming out with his. Disclosure. Yeah, he's going to do his thing. I don't know

what, what angle his is going to be a... It's a love story with Emily Blunt. Of course, it's a love story. They're all love stories. They're all love. Steve Spielberg. Yeah, what's the other thing you should Do you like Spielberg? I would guess that maybe you're not the biggest Spielberg fan. That's funny you say that. Because I feel like you don't like conventional shit. It's funny you say that. Yeah.

I love Spielberg. Really? I love conventional movie. Really? I love it. I love it. When you can do the whole hero's journey thing well and it works. Yeah.

It's amazing. And I'll be honest with you, a big part of my love for Spielberg and John Williams, though. Oh, amazing. You know? I mean, the music's. So, like, you want to go back to. to, like, well, Drafts Park is actually, like, top movies. Oh, yeah.

You know, 10 years old seeing that movie for the first time. I want to be paleontologist after I saw that. It was like going to change the trajectory of my life kind of movie. But I think there was something about his movies with John Williams. That synergy, that connection is just really, it brought in the sense of wonderment. Oh, yeah. And in the film.

And it just made, like, I didn't realize until, like, last year. I went through a Spielberg thing last year. I watched all of the movies. All of them. Because I was really, it was more so a John Williams thing I was going through. So I had to watch all Spielberg stuff. But, you know, close encounters. I had actually never seen that one.

Oh, wow. And it was like perfect timing. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And all the UFO stuff. And I was just blown away. Yeah. And I saw, I'm embarrassed to say it, but I only saw E.T. for the first time.

No way. This year. I love E.T. That movie destroyed me, man. It's amazing. I was like, I was watching that movie, like, as a grown man, but I was also, like, a 12-year-old boy watching that movie. And, like, the last half hour, I just couldn't stop cry. It was just, like, just endless.

Just couldn't stop. That movie just destroyed me. I could think about that right now if I start crying. It's so good. And when he's biking and you have E.T. with the hood on and they starts flying off the cliff or whatever. And the John Williams things comes in. John Williams. Like, oh, my God.

I think Spielberg knew some shit about UFOs. I think he has some inside sources. Yeah. Because he watched Close and Count of the Third Kind. There's some stuff in there. Do you have the crates that say TRW and Skunk Works in the late 80s where nobody really knew. that much about those two frontier R&D. Something was up.

He was definitely clued in. And it was like, it was some weird stuff too, like the orbs. He had some like like, like, orbs that trailed after the big UFO thing. I didn't even know that. There were some like weird little, little, they were like, here we go. Right.

It was like little stuff. Like, it was like really. The sunburn that he gets when the UFO passes over the mountain or whatever, which that's really interesting. Dude, I didn't even pick up on. Oh, yeah. It's like, it's like electromagnetic radiation damage, which if you like, you know, Kit Green and Gary Nolan, you know, CIA spooky stuff, they're looking at biological effects of people who've witnessed or encountered UFO. It's the same stuff now. And then ET, you have the kid lock on with ET and they have the same biarrhythm and heart, you know, readings or whatever. And that's like Jake Barber, where it's like he's locking on to the crap. And then the final one, this is my favorite one. You've seen Back to the Future.

No. I live under a rock. So he executive produced that. Yeah. So we've talked about this guy, Thomas Townsend Brown. Yeah, it's your boy. I love Thomas. I can't get through an interview without mentioning this anti-gravity, amazing

anti-gravity inventor. But in general relativity, time and gravity are related. So his whole life, he's obsessed with time travel. And if you watch back to the future, it's Emmett, E-M-E-T-B-T-Brown, Thomas Townsend Brown, flies on his floor. Capacitor, which is capacitor experiment. It was Brown. It took place in Pasadena, which is where Brown lived. That might be coincidental. I don't know, man. I don't know. I don't know. And then it was, it was the year that he died. It was in 1985. And then it goes back to 1957, which is when he

proved his experiment. And it was powered by Mr. Fusion. His experiments were powered by, he wanted them to be powered by nuclear reactions. I want to watch it again. Yeah. I want to watch it again. I think that movie might even, because if some of this stuff is time travel, that movie's fascinating because it points to us mistaking the UFO thing for aliens, extraterrestrials, when actually it's time travel. Because the kid, I don't know if you remember this, but the DeLorean comes back in time and it hits, it goes into the shed. And the kid has a magazine, like a UFO magazine. And he's looking at the thing. And he goes, it has no seams. It has no rivets.

He goes, it must be a flying saucer. And then when Marty goes back... He comes out like he's an alien, too, right? That's right. That's right. It looks like it is. So they mistake it. And then when Marty comes back, his father goes...

He's trying to get his mom and dad back together so that he can exist in the future timeline. And his dad goes... And he's like, dad, like, you know, he doesn't call him dad, but he goes, you know, she really likes you. Like, come on, get together. He goes, I wouldn't listen to you unless you were an alien. and showing up in my bedroom from another galaxy.

And then he shows up. So it's almost like showing how we might mistake. And then Steven Spielberg, in an interview, says, what do you think is more likely, you know, distant galaxy, Zeta reticuli, you know, Andromeda, you know, whatever. Or did he say Zeta Ritulai? He said one of those. I was like, sure.

I was like, damn side of you going there. He's definitely clued in. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I don't know if he did. I might be putting that in his mouth. Or he said. And he says, is that or is it us thousands of years in the future and they're keeping track and trying to, like, adjust timelines?

What if they're not from an advanced civilization, 300 million light years from here? But what if it's us 500,000 years into the future? He said it with Colbert recently, and he apparently said it to the Deadpool creator. So I don't know. You might know some shit. He was in the White House screening room. Yeah.

And Reagan got up to thank me for bringing the film to show him, to show the president, the first lady, and all of their guests. And he just stood up, and he looked around the room, almost like it was doing a headcount. And he said, I want to thank you for bringing E.T. to the White House. We really enjoyed your movie. And then he looked around the room.

He said, and there are a number of people in this room who know that everything on that screen is absolutely true. And he said it without smiling. But he said that. And everybody laughed, by the way. The whole room laughed, because he presented it like a joke, but he wasn't smiling as he said. I think it's perfect that he's doing this movie and you can get him on your podcast.

Oh, let's go. How do we do that? Reach out. Start now. Oh, man. Well, he's a hardcore UFO. He blur, you know, James Fox, of course. Yeah.

So he, like, wrote a little complimentary thing, like a review for James Fox's first movie out of the blue, which. I haven't seen that one, actually. It's from 20, maybe 14 or something. It's from a while ago. So it's like just shows how hardcore. He's into it. He's into it, yeah. That's wild.

I think it was funny, though, Spielberg was like, I heard him say something like, he gave a lot of props to Denny and Villanou for a rival. It's like, yeah, it's the best UFO movie since close encounters.

I was like, damn, bro. Like, you're really on your shit like that. You really feeling yourself. That's funny. It's great. Since my movie.

The best one since I did something. Arrival is amazing. Arrival is amazing. It's incredible. It's amazing. Do you ever read the book? What is it? Ted Chang's story of our time?

I haven't either. So I just want to have nothing to say about. Oh, well, it'd be cool if I read it and I'd talk about it. Yeah, but yeah, Spielberg, he's switched on, man. And James Fox, how do you feel about that moment of contact? I thought that was very interesting. I think that's his best movie. Well, I think the phenomenon, James Fox is amazing.

I love him. I think he's got the best energy. He's like the type of guy I would love for him to be the guy to film the first UFO, find it. Because he was valeting cars and painting fences while he was making his first movies. He's so passionate. And he just in it for all the right reasons. He's so collaborative. He just loves everybody.

So he's the man. The phenomenon, I feel like, is the best, like, entry point. Absolutely. I don't know anything. I always show that to people who are like, what about what's going? know what this? I was like, yeah, watch that one because it's like, it breaks it down in the best way. It's like gateway. It's like gateway.

Gateway. Yeah, exactly. And then moment of contact, I think is one of the best docs on this ever. So fast. And it's, I love that it's so out of left field. It's not some official U.S. government thing. It's like these people in Virginia aren't lying about this stuff. Yeah, man.

It's really, really fascinating. I just FaceTime him. He's making a moment of contact, too. Oh, really? Yeah. What else are you going to say about it? There's a lot of new. Crazy stuff.

Yep. Okay. Yep. Well, I'm curious. Yeah. Curious. Do you think that more, like, it was such a revelation to me to see that you were into this? I was like, this is the coolest collision of worlds.

Do you think that more people in just general culture continue? Because I think it's on Twitter, it's like you and Father John Misty are like, to me, like, the cultural icons who are like peeping into UFO Twitter and like liking stuff here and there. I don't know if you know that. I didn't know that. That's cool. Oh, it's really random and funny. Yeah. And he wrote like something like, uh, when I, when I heard Diana Pesolka say that Chris

Bloodso is the new Paul Benowitz, I realized I needed to get a life or something. That was just like, reason tweet. That's perfect. It's like, bro, like you are deep in it, you know, at that point. That's perfect. Also, dude from what, Blink 182? Oh, Tom DeLong. I mean, he's, yeah.

Dude, what, see, that's your autism, bro. That's your autism. You got, you got every. Everybody's name. Like, you're so good with names. I watch you do interviews all the time. And you know everybody. The name was like, oh, yeah.

It was just, I don't know how you do that. Like somebody bring up some obscure book that someone wrote and you know the author's name and everybody who was in it. And that's, dude. I forget everybody's name. I don't know y'all's name back here. I don't know your name's name. You got Sam and Mauricio. Are you lying?

No, I'm not lying. I got that right, right. Yeah, yeah. But I find that to be like, that's actually super powerful. That's my old, first of all, it's a totally useless skill. No, it isn't. No, it isn't. You don't need memory.

It's a parlor trick on a podcast. No, no, no. It's always impressive to me. Well, I appreciate that. That means a lot. That, it's funny. It means a lot to Sam and Mauricio, too, that you remember their names. Yeah, well, hey, what can I say?

I mean, I think it's, I think it's my only skill. After the Rogan thing, we hung out at the mothership at his comedy thing. And my girlfriend was there and she was talking to him for a bit. And he was like, it was the best compliment. He was like, Jesse's memory is next level. And to me, his memory is next level. Well, I mean. Because it's like, he knows all sorts of crazy facts about all the, like, I'm in a narrow domain.

I probably have a decent memory on some of the other stuff. But like, he's got diverse interests. Yeah. He's got diverse interests. He's actually one of the same. people who got me to try DMT for the first time. No way. Yeah, yeah.

Really? Back in the MySpace days, he was talking about it. I think this is even before he was like doing the podcast like that. But yeah, he was. Yeah, he was early on D&T for sure. He was, you know, got me on Rick Strassman's book and all that stuff. And I brought some DMT for you. Let's go.

Just kidding. I think this would be the most absurd environment. Don't move DMT here. Don't do it here. Don't do it here. I would break. But you should try it. Maybe I will.

Talk about that last time. Honestly, I don't really. I've done ayahuasca. Oh, that's right. Technically, I've done it. But not the fast acting, yeah. Maybe check it out if it comes your way. Okay.

Yeah. Yeah. You've told me some stories. Hey, you know, it's fascinating stuff. I feel like my brain don't think of the stuff that, that showed me. So I find it to be really, really interesting. Yeah.

That's fascinating. It's like you were in another objective reality. Like, where does that? If that's not in your mind, yeah. Because, you know, I always think about, you know, people saying when they trip, they talk about like,

oh, I was in Jimmy Hendrix's guitar when I was listening to his music and all that stuff. And I'm like, Jimmy Hendrix was nowhere to be found. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. It was like really, just stuff that I'd never,

my brain doesn't go in this direction. But it's funny, though, because I don't really recommend it to people anymore, except people like yourself. Mm. I feel like my worldview is so trippy, though. I worry. I worry that it would like... I remember you're saying that. Yeah.

Like, you're afraid that, like, you're not going to come back or something afterwards. Because I'm already... So, like, my worldview is very different, I think, than the average person, because I'm in all the weird shit all the time. So I feel as sensitive as I ever have around, like, you know, just keeping this thing. on, you know, straight. No, I feel that. But in the right sentence setting, if it were, you know, to come across my path

serendipitously, I would do it. Who would just throw a DMT with then? Maybe you, man. I mean, who else? Well, maybe you. That'd be awesome. Yeah, that'd be cool. I wouldn't do it, though.

It would just be you. That's why Rogan got you into it. Maybe, man. It's, um... I saw he follows you on Twitter, right? Yeah, from like forever ago, like when Twitter first came out, you know? Yeah.

I could see him liking your music. I know. He likes hip hop for sure. Oh, man. Well, that's interesting. Yeah, I don't know. I don't know what's up with Joe. I find him to be an interesting dude.

But as far as DMT, yeah, man, I think you need to try it. Oh, man. That would be crazy. What's up, guys? I want to tell you about my new favorite boots. These things are epic. I've been wearing these everywhere. They're called brunt.

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And then I was in Australia. I was in Perth. on New Year's Day as they celebrate the day this summer. Yeah. So it was a morning party that I was at.

It was like, it must have been like noon or something like that. And I'm like throwing down, played a really cool set. And I don't usually like toot my own horn if I don't deserve it, right? Like it was actually a good set. I played, I was pretty wasted though too.

So people like carried me outside, carry my big ass outside. You know, like, because I was so, wasted. I'm like sitting out on the patio of this venue and some dudes just random Ozies came up to me and just like dapped me up and was like, yo, I heard you want to try a DMT

and just gave me like a fat sack of it. And I, like an idiot, smuggled it all the way back to the States. I did a whole tour out there and smuggling it the whole way and brought it back. I would never do anything like that. Yeah, yeah. But yeah, it was some amazing

stuff. I've never seen any DMT that looked like that ever since. Wow. Yeah. Do you feel like it changed the way you think after the experience? You know what? It didn't, but it was more so validation to the idea that maybe there is some more than this.

Yeah. I think that's what it was helpful for, just showing you that there was way more going on. Yeah. Being behind the curtain, you know, and I think at that time my life, I needed it. You know, my mom had passed away like months, months before that. So I feel like it was really a way for me to connect to the other side and still be here. Yeah. So, yeah, I think, again, I don't recommend it to everyone just because I do feel like if you are susceptible to, you know, schizophrenia or any of that kind of stuff,

it could set you off. Do you feel like the pain of your mother passing, you say that it kind of influenced Cosmogramma a lot, right? Yeah, absolutely. Do you feel like pain creates great art and it can spur on great art? I think it's a weird one with that. I don't know if that's real,

but I'm just grateful to have art to turn to. when I need to go to church. It's an outlet. Yeah, I need when I have to say something. I'm always so grateful for that to be able to create music whenever I need to go back to the source. It's kind of awesome. Like when you feel overwhelming emotions,

you have like a thing that you can just pour it into. Yeah. And I think a lot of people don't have it. They don't have that. I'm really grateful for it because, you know, in a way I get, I get my job is to go to therapy. Yeah, yeah. Pretty much. Yeah.

It's to just heal, you know, and try to understand more about the world and the universe and stuff and ask questions through the music. It's a great, it's a great job. If you could smoke DMT with anyone in the UFO world, who would it be? Ooh. Um, good question. Man, I'd be down to smoke one with Bob Lazar. I'd be down, I'd be down to give big Bob Lazar in that way, man. That'd be fun.

Yeah. I wouldn't, you know, I respect that experience so much that it would take a lot for me to do it again, actually. I only done it like two or three times. Okay. And to try it again would be a lot. Yep. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah, I wonder sometimes. some of these UFOs might be like it's like is DMT like you know night vision or like infrared or something and if you were to hook those up to the optic nerve you could see that and DMT is like another version of that where it's like a window

I think Jake Barber was talking about that without saying so I think he was alluding to that a little bit and I think that maybe some of the other whistleblowers might have too but like I'd do feel like there could be some connection.

At least, the very least, that maybe this is something that we were, you know, connected to a bit more earlier in our development as human beings. You know, maybe we were closer to God, closer to the source, closer to the stars. And I think that part of that was maybe seeing some of those places that you can access on DMT. Yeah, totally. And I feel like the reason a lot of people don't believe Jake's story is the reason I do believe it because it involves this like mental connection. And I think for a lot of people, it's like you are grouping in ETs or NH nonhuman intelligence along with psychic stuff.

Yeah. Give me a break. I'm not going to, you know. Dude, I'm going to be honest with you. It was a lot, though. Yeah. He dropped a lot on the day. And it was like, even for me, who's someone who was like, I'm trying to be down.

Yeah. like, I was like, ooh, buddy. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You're going to lose some people with that stuff. For your second half of that story, you should just stay in on the first half, show the egg, and let it, let it go. You know, so next interview you could talk about that. But man, he dropped a lot on it and didn't blink either.

I was like, bro, like, you go easy on it. Well, both he and David Grush have this, like, Googly-eyed, I've seen some shit look in that, in both of their interviews with Ross Colter. I don't know if it's Ross's lighting or if, like, they've seen some shit, you know? And, like, they have that, you know, kind of, you know, like, I've seen something kind of gnarly. Grush blinks, though. Grush blinks, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Jake's got the... That was so about that, dude. That was just like, what is going on? Is he an alien? That's bloody. That's... I think it was a little chiller in my follow-up interview. Totally, totally.

And I'm just talking shit. I'm just having a good time. But I have so much respect for all those cats, honestly. I think it's, they're all, I think they're all brave to just even... knowing how crazy the community is, knowing how crazy the stakes are, all this stuff, I do feel like that it's a level of courage that is pretty next. And these people aren't media personalities. They're not trained to be in front of the camera and stuff.

So, you know, we've got to give them a pass. No, they don't know what they're doing often. You kind of have to help hold their hand and stuff. And they're scared. And they, I see it firsthand because I often all get. thrown in with them or whatever, they get a lot of backlash. Like they got Randy Anderson, who he went underground and he saw this like gauntlet thing that like emitted hieroglyphics. And he was at he was stationed at Naval Surface Warfare Crane in Indiana in 2014. He was taken down a bunch of

floors in an elevator to a deep underground military base. And then he was taken basically through a tunnel past a bunch of skiffs into something that said, I think it was like, um, off-world or off-planet technology. Yeah, yeah, I heard about this. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then he's... Was he talking to Greer? He was talking to Greer before I met him.

Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah. And I had been talking to him for six months. He was talking to UAP Gurb, actually, before I met him, too. Oh, cool, cool, cool, cool. And I had some inklings that, like, this year was going to be kind of crazy as far as whistleblowers coming out. And I was like, dude, if there was ever a time, I think you should come out now. And he was in Vegas and came down to L.A. But like right after that, you have all these guys being like, he's not a green beret and he didn't pass these tests and he wasn't at war. And it's like I spent, I've got dinner with him the night before I spent a lot of time with him and his friends like hours. And I met, you know, two of his call. But you're a sci-off, dude.

But I'm a sciop. They don't. Yeah, that's right. That's right. I don't believe. Yeah. Well, good. There you go.

There you go. But it's like, you know, and his friends are like, you hear their frustration and you see their DD214, like their background. You're like, is anybody seeing this? And then you have these people, I think it's fine. And I think he would even say it's fine to go after the experience. Be like, I don't know. Maybe that was bullshit. Maybe he was sciopped.

But when they, then they go after his like background as like a war hero. It's like, come on. It's a lot, man. It's a lot. And it's, no one wants to deal with that. No, and anyone, all these whistleblowers are watching how everyone's reacting to this stuff. They're doing their research. Why would anyone want to be put themselves out there like that just to get picked apart?

Yeah. Be called liars and all this stuff. 100%. It's not cool. That's not fun. It's not fun. But I'm optimistic after this Wall Street Journal article. The reason being, I think it's really interesting.

They say it's all part of this Air Force hazing ritual, which is really dumb for the Wall Street Journal to say. Because I think then all of the witnesses around UFOs and nuclear weapons, all these Q cleared employees, all these guys sue the government. Right. You know, or Wall Street Journal. You're not allowed to do that. You're not to the American populace, though. Literally. There's like federal torture claims provisions.

And so they are, they're fucked. Because I think it's totally fake. There's no hazing ritual. or if there have been, it's been in little spots here and there that does not explain the whole thing. So they kind of back themselves into this interesting corner. I think that's the problem is trying to blanket all of it ever. You know, it's like I think so many of these things can be true personally. I think there's so many parts of it that can be true.

There could be future human. There could be some graze. There could be some stuff that we're doing. It could be some stuff that China's doing. All these things can exist, I think. And it probably is. Yeah. I've been trying to figure out personally, well, how I feel about all this stuff.

Yeah. Because I go through this ebb and flow. Yeah. Of just kind of being like, I'm always going to be fascinated. Yeah. But in terms of my own personal beliefs, I'm just kind of always like ebb and flow with it. Like I'm really in or I'm like, nah. I'm like, back in.

And I'm like, I don't know. So it's really, it's really a. something that fluctuates for me. But I think I'm always going to be curious. I'm always going to be following it whether or not, you know, I believe it. I just think it's all fascinating. Especially because it's all playing out on TV in Washington and, you know, we're having congressional hearings about it. It's crazy. Crazy. What got you into it to begin with? Well, I mean, I've always been in the sci-fi. I've always been into the idea of aliens and stuff. I've never seen anything.

And if I do, I probably can't say anything because I'm like the least credible person out there. Yeah, of course Flyload of Saw that. Of course he did. But no, I haven't seen anything. But I've always felt that there is more out there. And I've, you know, I've made a film about a couple of films with AOL. themes. A few, yeah.

Yeah. And I think when I was filming Ash, when we were filming that movie, Aaron Pohl told me about David Grush. Because that video, the videos of him with Ross Colhart has just come out. And I saw that on my timeline, but I was kind of, I don't know, I'll go through it. But then he was like, yo, man, you got to check him out. I believe the Scott. And Aaron, I wouldn't have guessed that he was, like, really into the topic. But, you know, I watched it, and then it kind of took me down the rabbit hole, I guess. Yeah.

But Aaron, you know, he's wild. He talked to Bob Lazar. He talks to Bob Lazar? Yeah, he talked to Bob Lazar. Aaron Paul? Oh, my God. Yeah. And, like, they were, like, writing messages to each other.

No way. I know. I'd love to be a fly on the wall for that. I know. I know. You got to get him on the show. I would love to. Well, I guess Breaking Bad is kind of a vagusy show.

Like, I don't, I'm trying to think where that would even have occurred. I don't know how the connection is made, but like, he's a fascinating cat. Whoa. Yeah. Well, Ash was amazing, man. I loved it. And this set kind of reminds me. I was texting you.

I was like, this is not a set. We're in a spaceship. We're in an actual spaceship. Yeah, yeah. And you have the coolest shirt. Oh. You want to show it to the camera. We got a Lockheed Martin, Aurora.

anti-matter matter matter reaction anti-gravity it's great i have another one too like the lacheed martin reverse engineering program no way yeah it's it's ridiculous i think it's fascinating i that whole thing that whole side of it is just been like just super interesting to me so interesting the reverse engineering stuff and how much of that because there's definitely weird deception and like you know sci-ops going on yeah aerospace and then how much of it is really you're real because there's a lot of evidence that there's something there as well. Yeah. So it's fascinating.

But it's funny that you said, like, of course, Flylow is seen an alien. When I first heard your music, I was like, this dude's in A. Because I was super into, like, Dilla and Pete Rock and DJ premiere, all these, like, 90s hip-pop producers. And then you came on the scene. And I think it might have been around your album, Cosmogramma or Los Angeles, like, 08, you know, 2010 era. And I just I saw you play actually with Thundercat in New York and I remember because like Dilla would mess people up because his stuff wasn't quantized. And then I remember hearing your stuff and I was like, this guy's on another planet. Like this is crazy.

Hey, well, you know, they made it okay. They made it okay for us to go there. Yeah. So. Well, you took it to the next level. Hey, well, hey, doing my part. Do my part. Yeah.

But, you know, it's funny, though, because I got, you know, just like everybody else probably, I got a lot of flack in the beginning for doing my thing, you know, and being, being that person. Like, I keep bringing this up lately because it's so bizarre to people, but like, back when I was first getting on, and the scene, like, around, like, what, 2004, I'll get a lot of shit. Can I say shit? I'm a curse of this. Oh, yeah, yeah. I used to get a lot of shit for using a computer to make music.

Really? Back in the day. Instead of an MPC. Yeah, you had to have MPC, you know, or S.P. or S.P. or something like that, or else you wasn't making hip-hop. You was making techno or computer music or whatever. They was just like, there's no way. There's no way you can, you ain't, there ain't no swing in that computer. You can't swing with that.

So it made me more determined to, like, really get in there and get the sounds and to try to different stuff. And I actually was really encouraged earlier on in my development to, you know, just to do the other thing, just to try and go in different directions. And so I owe a lot to the people around me really who supported me to just like not do, not to do what everyone else was doing at the time. Well, you come from maybe the most kind of interesting musical family. I could think of Alice Coltrane is your what is your great aunt is that right yeah yeah yeah and then uh marylin mcclod is your grandmother and she she wrote love hangover and she also wrote uh i get hot or what i get high as the styles p um uh swiss b sample uh sample uh but it's it's no it is i get high too

right yeah yeah the original free to paint yeah she wrote that as well yeah so you just come from amazing you know family when it comes to this stuff. They still was looking at me like I was crazy though, dog. They were like, why does shit sound like some garbage, hitting on some garbage cans? You know, like, what is this? And I was like, but you guys are crazy too.

What are you guys? But yeah, I had to find my way. Just like, just like we all do. It is true. Your drums, I think, set you apart. So it's like that plus the crazy sense like the, like, sounded. Like, it was like you leaned into the computer thing.

And it was like that plus the drums, which, you know, was like, yeah, it was like, Garneby was like back alley, like crazy. And it was like, oh my God, this is crazy. Yeah, yeah. Well, yeah, just went for it, man, just went for it. A lot of support from my grandmother, though. She was the first person to put a machine in my hands. You know, she had was the 6606, the TB 606 or something like that.

Like one of them drum machines were like, you know, those weird analog sounds and stuff in there. And she was just like, here, take it. I was just making drum beats and stuff when I was really young. And that was kind of what set me up. And then just being around different family, like my cousin, he was making music on a Mac 2CI, like old Mac, like back when that was like super foreign to record on. And, you know, it was watching him while I'm playing Sonic the Hedgehog.

He's like making stuff that sounds like Prince. stuff and like I was just always surrounded by music and always surrounded by people trying to make stuff. That makes sense you played Sonic the Hedgehog because it, I feel like it's that Sega like wave racer vibe. Oh man, no doubt. And those loops, man, they're still in my head, man. I still, I still be sampling Sonic too. Still to this day. No one goes to Hanks for his spreadsheets. They go for a darn good pizza. Lately though, the shop's been quite. So Hank decides to bring back the $1.1 slice. He asks co-pilot in Microsoft Excel to look at his sales and costs and help him see if he can afford it.

Co-pilot shows Hank where the money's going and which little extras make the dollar slice work. Now Hanks has a line out the door. Hank makes the pizza. Copilot handles the spreadsheets. Learn more at M365 copilot.com slash work. That's awesome. Yeah, yeah. So was Alice an inspiration for you early on? My Aunt Alice was such an inspiration, but I feel like my appreciation for her and her music grew over time.

You know, like when I was, I feel like kind of in high school, all the stuff started making more sense to me, and I was really starting to see it. But then when I went to college and really started, like, vibe in there and, like, you know, trying mushrooms and stuff. And, like, you know, leaving my brain and stuff. I'm like, oh, I get it for real now. You know, it was really starting to make sense. And I had just the deepest appreciation for it. But, you know, I'm still to this day, like, I feel like every other year I'll go back and listen to the music that she made and just be like, whoa, what was she doing? How did she do that?

Why did she do that? That was a weird choice, great choice. But, you know, like, I'm still picking it apart after all these years. And you said she never saw her practice. I never saw her practice. That's crazy. In my entire, and I, you know, she was like the Coltrane side, they're like the closest family to me in L.A. And so I spent a lot of time over there.

I, you know, I went to the school right by their house. So I walked from school to hang out over there all the time. And, you know, I would see them very often. I never saw her practice. Never. And I remember one time when I was like maybe like 10, 11 years old, I went over. the house and then she had beautiful piano, beautiful grand Steinway piano. I'm surrounded by, you know, her harp and all these amazing instruments.

I went in there. I was like, hey, can I go play your piano? Yeah. She was like, well, are you going to play it? I was like, I don't, I don't know, actually. What do you think she meant by that? She meant, am I going to get down, dude? Like, don't mess around, you know, like, don't go in there, like, messing around on my piano.

You're going to go in there and play it. Whoa. You go play it, but. better play. So I was like, I took that like, so I didn't do it. I never touched that thing ever. And she was very kind of spiritually tapped in as well. Right. Oh, man. She was the most. She was the most tapped in. I would say, yeah, there was a lot of influence, but I guess it would be more non-denominational leaning. But, but yeah, a lot of influence there. Definitely. Yeah. Yeah, she's amazing. I mean, just hearing, what's it, I think it was, Turia and.

Ramakrishna. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's like that old blues kind of vibe. And it's just so beautiful. It's like ethereal and beautiful. And be like, where is this coming from? It's amazing. It's wild because it can always be, you can always hear the blues.

And then it just goes to some other, just crazy places. And I remember being with her in Paris once she had me come with her. And Ravi, they play the show in Paris. toward the end of her life. And, um, I just remember just hearing her, you know, she was like a, she was like a Yoda type person where she was like real, she was really tiny and, you know, move very slowly, very gentle with everything. But, you know, she just, when she went on that, you know, boom, was busting out all crazy, you know, like, who is this person? And it was like, even, even Rodney, her son, and he was like, whoa, what is going on? You know, so like,

She just had, she was tapped in for sure to the source. Well, John was tapped in as well. I mean, I think he might be like at least top three, maybe favorite jazz musician of all time. Are you a fan of his as well? Absolutely, absolutely. And I think I think I was a fan of his first. And it was, it's funny because when I was growing up

and I would, people would want to talk to my aunt and be around people, want to talk to her. They always want to talk to her about John Coltrane. All they want to talk to her about is like, what was it like being around John Coltrane? What was he like? What was he like? And she would always answer very humbly. And then now it's like everyone wants to talk about Alice Coltrane. And it's really awesome to see that just to see the turn happen. But I do wish she that she was here to see her influence in the way. Because I feel like now I'm hearing way more about her than him. Even though he's, you know, I go to sushi restaurant, it's always John Coltrane. You know what I'm there? But like, I just feel like the young, the young folks around are really

viving on our music right now. It's really cool to see. Absolutely. Well, she really, I think, just pushed the envelope and experimented. Obviously, he was amazing too. Yeah. That is cool to see. And it's interesting how music kind of like your UFO interest ebbs and flows and changes. and how do you feel like, do you feel like it's in an interesting place right now? Do you feel like it's in a weird place? Like music. Music in general?

Is that even a question you can ask? Or is it just, it is what it is? You know, as far as the industry and all that stuff, I can separate it and think about it in terms of like the actual music itself. And there's always some good stuff going on. Always. Always. Always.

Always interesting. You just got to look for it. Yeah. You got to seek it out. But, you know, if you're only going to. listen to what the charts are telling you, then you're probably going to be thinking it's all the same. It's definitely weird that it's now filtered by is the person a good social media personality? Absolutely.

That's weird to me. Absolutely. And like the numbers, like people even see like, okay, well, they only have certain amount of listeners on Spotify, so they're probably not that good. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. They're probably not that great.

Yeah. They only got like 10,000 listeners every month. So they're probably, eh. Right. It's this, like, infinite force ranking of everything. Absolutely. Everything's a beauty contest. Oh, dude.

Yeah. And I feel like in the past 10 years, you know, the numbers thing really got into the fandoms of rappers and stuff. Like, you know, first week sales and stuff. Like, people are, like, kids are talking about rappers' first week sales. Like, selling what? What are people selling anymore? Like, y'all buying records and stuff? Like, what is?

It's super weird that. that's actually part of the conversation in terms of like, is something good or interesting? It's like, what are they selling? How much are they moving? How many units are they moving? Like, it's like old barbershop conversation or something that has just now become like a very, very popular bit of a conversation, unfortunately.

Well, you started an amazing record label, brain feeder. Do you feel like, and I didn't even realize some of the people you had signed? Yeah. I was independently fans of. doing research for this. I was like, I was like, like, Taylor McFerrin. Like, I was like, I was like, of course he signed him. Like, it's like similar drums and like, of course you'd be in the Taylor McFarrow. Oh, I love like that. When I first heard, I think it was degrees of light. I was like, wow, like this is crazy. Like, what is there? Reminded me of you a little bit. And Daedalus.

Yeah. And I'm trying to think. There were a couple others on there where I was like, damn, I didn't even know you guys had worked together. Yeah. Yeah. Brain feeder has been going for a minute, man it's been going for a minute and it's it's it's something that i'm actually really really proud of because it's it's you know something that is kind of flourishing on it on its own at this point you know and i'm still doing a lot of work with brain feeder and curating and you know the ANR side but you know that that's like uh it's a machine that's moving and it's awesome to see and maybe through that you can fight back a little bit where it's like i don't care if you have 10,000 weekly streams or whatever, like, I love it.

Absolutely. Absolutely. And, you know, it's become a thing where it's, there's a lot of risk in the personal sense because I want to do right by the artists. But as far as everything else, there's no risk for me. I'm not trying to make money there. I'm not. It's really not my source of income like that. It is, but it's not, you know, at the same time. So I just was like, It's my passion project. But like, I've been so grateful to be able to see all these different artists flourish and have their careers. And, you know, they're doing their thing. Yeah.

Being there. Super cool. Is there anybody you're into now that the public probably doesn't know about? Oh, yeah. Absolutely. There's an artist just named Thing. Okay. Just thing.

I love it. A drum and bass, some drum bass, like classic drum bass bass, but sometimes. I just will mix up some like, some like, UK, like, two-step, you know, kind of Gary, UK garage kind of vibe. You know, smaller following. Uh-huh. Doesn't matter. Don't care. But, like, I'd be in the gym.

It's like, da-da-da. I'm doing a listen to A-man breaks and stuff. It's like, yeah. So it's kind of random. But, and the cat puts out stuff like every week. It's pretty crazy. Damn. I know.

Thing. Yeah, thing. Go check out then. Thing is dope. It was dope. Sick, man. Yeah. And you've worked with some of the most legendary artists.

Yeah, man. I mean, one of the guys I feel like you're just probably friends first and then collaborator second is Thundercat. Who I saw you live with in New York. Yeah, yeah. He's amazing, man. He's so awesome. And he credits you for having helped give him a voice. Because he was just playing bass primarily, right?

And you kind of helped him out. and you were like, look, man, you should just sing over your, over your tracks. Is that right? Yeah, he was doing some ooze and ahs and stuff. And I was like, what's going on? Let's do it. And there was one day, I'll never forget. And I think about it all the time.

We were sitting in my apartment, my sweaty apartment in North Ridge. And he just, you know, we were working on some music. I had these like portable lunch tables. They're like, you know, the classic. picnic tables or whatever. That's where I had all my gear set up on and it was like surrounded by all these like medicinal marijuana jars. And it was, yeah, he just looks over at me and he was like, man, I want to be your artist. And I was like, yeah, what does that even mean?

You know what is that even mean? I've never done that sort of thing before. And yeah, we've just been going out, man, ever since. We've just been going for it. And it's been awesome to see. And honestly, something I take so much pride in, aside from my own work, you know, just seeing how his music and his message and his influences affected the world. Yeah.

You see, he's another guy who, like, you know, back in the day, I think was always respected, like, almost like an artist-artist, where it was like he's amazing on the base. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then, like, in the last five years, I feel like people are. are just like, everybody knows who Thundercat is, which is so cool to see. Yeah. I was just randomly at dinner and they were playing his music just randomly, you know, and it just comes along.

I'm like, dick. Let's go. Yeah, I love it. I love it. Is he into the alien stuff? Like, I could see, he seems like such a, like a fun kind of goofy personality. Like, I can see him being into the earphode. I feel like he's, you know, he's kind of like come over the house and I got like some weird

alien YouTube videos on and I'm like, I turn him off real quickly. I'm not watching me that stuff, but I don't think he's really into it. Okay, okay. I don't think he's super into the stuff. But, you know, because he's probably an alien.

He doesn't want to be exposed, you know? Exactly. You don't want to like the exposure. Or maybe you'd act into it like you. You never know. Maybe. Maybe.

We might be, you know, it might be walking among us. Right, right. Right, right. Maybe, maybe. I want to list some artists. and you've either collaborated with them or you might have something to say about them,

I want to get just one sentence about each of these guys. Okay. Jay Dilla. Ooh, man. One of the greatest ever. Very grateful to have met him a couple times close to the end of his life. I feel like I saw him maybe

a week or two before he passed away. It's crazy. I delivered a check to his house. Yeah, let's tell that. You told me this. It's so crazy. I used to work at Stone's Throw back in the day. And he...

Were you like... I was an intern. Yeah, I was an intern there. A paid intern. Okay. I was working there long enough. They had to start kicking me down a little bit. But, yeah, I was there.

and yeah he was finishing up the donut stuff that was that was happening mad live sound directions he was doing that it was like he started mad lives starting to play drums live and stuff and that was kind of like that the time i was there um and yeah they were they were finishing up some business and they sent me over the house like yo um you might see something over there just you know be cool because he wasn't in really good shape, you know, toward the end. He had like a blood disorder or blood cancer or something. Lupus and I don't know what else, but something else. I think something else was going on too.

But yeah, I got to see him. The machines were still on, you know. He was in a wheelchair. He looked really bad, man. I cried after I left there. I was like, I was fully in tears. because not only because of what I saw, but just because I still felt the energy.

I still felt the power still. I felt the force. It was strong still. Man, it was really strong even toward the end. And it was really, it was a lot. But I was very impressed that even then, everything was still lit up. But it was still working on some shit.

Was he good energy? Oh, it was great, yeah, it was great. And, you know, I could tell he didn't want anyone to see him like that. And that was the thing, too, was like, I didn't really want to look him in the eye, just because I just tell he didn't, but he still was, like, holding it together. And he was at Commons House, right? That was common time. I think they were, yeah, they were living together, but yeah.

Wow. And his moms was taken care of them around them, too. Yeah, you listen to some of those tracks like that Isley Brothers sample, don't say goodbye. You call it bye or whatever. And you're like, oh, my God. He's like saying goodbye. And it's so ethereal.

It's so like, it's crazy. It was a lot. Or donuts of the heart that Jackson 5 sample. It's like. Yeah. When I was there, I think it was finishing up the shining. The shining stuff was happening. Okay.

Donuts was already done. Oh. By then, we were already like hearing all that stuff in the office. And, you know, we were getting like donut deliveries. you know, and like there was like a couple beats coming through and we would like gather around the record player or whatever and just be like, oh, it's my own. You know, just be like blown away.

That's interesting. So he was doing The Shining After Donuts. Well, yeah, I think there was still little ebbs and little bits and pieces that were kind of like, you know, still lying around for donuts. Like I think, I can't remember exactly which one, but there was some stuff that wasn't all finished. Okay.

It wasn't all finished and delivered. There was like pieces of that. And I think Shining was finished by, I think, J. Rock or Kareem Riggins back then. Okay. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Stone's throw was so interesting.

Like, what a constellation of a maze. It was, you know, peanut butter wolf started with him and charisma in San Jose. And then they came to L.A., kind of for Madlib, who was blowing up at the time. Yeah. And, like, man, Was that an inspiration for you for brainfeeder and just being there? It was a huge inspiration. Before I, you know, I was actually living in San Francisco studying film.

And a buddy of mine was like, you know, we call him Crazy John because he was crazy. He was insane dude. But he had great taste in music. And he was like, oh, you like hip hop? Well, you need to listen to LP. you need to check out MF Doom, Metal Fingers, okay? Victor Vaughn.

Madlib. I was like, okay, I'm going to check these people out. And I went and bought these records, and my mind was blown. And I was like, you know, just, yeah, started getting back into making beats. I had made beats when I was younger, but when I was in college and, like, hearing that stuff,

I got really into it again. And more so on the sampling side, because I'll, stuff I had made before was kind of like synth-based and, you know, messing with groove boxes. And then that was like the gateway into sampling, getting back into that stuff. Listen to Wu-Tang and hearing all that. Favorite Wu-Tang clan member? Deriz.

Yeah, of course. Yeah. Can't ask the producer. You can't ask the producer. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Although Jiza had some amazing beats too. Absolutely. Amazing beats.

Absolutely. Bariza is hard. heart and soul. Yeah. But, but yeah, when I was, when I was in school, I remember just being like, you know what, I'm a skip history of film school, history of film and just like work on some beats right now. Wow. And I'd be doing that.

And then I heard about this label, Stone's Throw that was in L.A. back home. And I was like, you know, maybe I need to, the whole scene was in L.A. too. So I was like, man, I need to get out of San Francisco, go back and be around these people and get in that energy. So that kind of led me back there. Stone's throw brought me back in a weird way. I love it. All right, let's keep going on the artist. Sorry, I was only supposed to give you a sentence.

No, no, this always happens. I love it. It's, uh, it's, uh, we're flowing. No wonder your shows are like three hours. Yeah, man. It's always just, I think the best conversations are just free association, just what you're, you know, whatever comes up. Yeah, sure, sure, sure.

Speaking of which, you just named two people, I was going to ask you about. So let's go Madlib first and then MFD. Ooh, okay. Madlib was definitely one of the most inspiring folks around considering he was one of those people who was like, oh, it don't matter what you use. You know, and I'm like, okay, well, I use a computer. You know, they don't matter.

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You know, I remember being being interned, and they showed me the, like, the box, you know, like all the Madeline beat tapes or whatever. They were like, you know, check these out. And it was like, it was insane just being, like, it would be like hundreds of beats or like he would fill up all these CDs. And I would listen to all them joints, man. Just be like, whoa, what is going on? You know? It's crazy. And it would make me feel lazy.

And it just made me feel lazy. But also it was one of those things that just kind of lit the fire. Yeah. It's like, okay, I needed work on this. I need to keep going. There you go. So it was definitely influential in that. And just the energy, you know, he was just such a cool, humble person.

And, you know, whenever I got to be around and it was just like a, it was a special day. It was always a special day just because, you know, he was, he just had such a, an impact on on the whole community too like there was aside from you know the the stone show thing you've had this kind of adjacent squad of producers who would hang out kind of around like did any kind of stone's throw related event you know there would be like the cast like dbiasi and georgia and moldro ross g you know take and all these other great um producers who went on to go and do great things. We started to build a community kind of on the side

of what they were doing. And, you know, we'd be out front of whatever parties they were throwing, with a boomboxes, playing each other and beat tapes and stuff. And that was really, you know, oh man, you know, Madla came came by earlier, you know, with, you know, dudes who worked at, you know, Puba and they'd be like over there and like, yeah, man, he came in, he got

this record, this, that, whatever. So it'd always be like, you know, legendary, mad. lip stories of what's going on. But always really influential and really inspiring. And he wasn't Quasimodo like an accident? Like that's how prolific he was. I think Peter Butterwolf like found that or someone was like, dude, this is actually pretty cool.

And then he kind of ran with it. Yeah, yeah, that's exactly. Yeah. So crazy. Yeah, man. And Doom, Yeah. Doom was, I mean, to me, he's, he's my favorite rapper.

still to this day. I think he's kind of, he mastered the, the persona of, of the character he created. Yeah. He really did. He was really the villain, bro.

Like, I mean, all the stories you heard about Doom are true. I don't know, they're not, there's not legend. It's all true. Like not showing up the stuff. Like, not showing up to stuff.

Like, not showing up to stuff. I remember there was, gig we invited doom you know um i had a show in in london and he was going to play and you know we fly out i fly out to london i think he's already there because he had been deported or something i think he was already living in the u.k so we're like great get dune one stage you know um and i think as we were sound checking we're i'm in the venue yeah yeah this is like this is the day i think i think i think day before, because we had to set up for that, the whole visual show. The day before he canceled the gig.

And it was, that's kind of unheard of. I mean, hear that. Oh, okay. Well, but doing that sort of thing in this business is not cool, especially when you have flyers and all the stuff promoting everything. We actually got Jay Electronica to fill in that spot, which is also a really crazy thing to do is he's also like. He's another guy where it's like, you never know when he's going to release his album or show up.

But I think he had reasons to come visit the UK. Well, he was, is he married to like a Rothschild? I didn't want to go there. I did. I did. I went there. I wasn't good. I said it for you.

I said he had a reason. I don't know what the reason is still. But yeah. Very elite. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But he came out and rocked it. It was wild. But yeah, it was really, it was really scary.

And that was that moment. I was like, oh, wow, he really is the villain. He doomed me, dude? I got doomed right here. But, man, you know, it's like, after that happened, he was kind of, well, it's the villain. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's what he does. I feel like he's just the most elusive, interesting, like, I don't know.

It's interesting with him, too, where we were just talking about Thundercat. You know, I feel like 10 years ago, it was still more kind of underground hip hop obscure circles where hardcore fans of Doom, now he's on TikTok. Like he is mass media. It's like Biggie. It's like Biggie. They bigoted him, man. It's wild. It's wild.

It's super cool to see. I just for some reason, I just thought of like the first time I met Doom, though. I met him at at Peanut Butter Wolf's Halloween party. I was like bathrobe, man, because that was all I had. It was a bathrobe. I didn't have any other costume, but you had it. I was like a dude in the bathrobe and some sunglasses. I'm Hugh Hathner.

And Doom shows up. He just got in the town. He just shows up as himself, of course. And I'm like, you know, hey, man, how's it going? How's how old you live? How long are you in town? You welcome to L.A. How long are you out here?

And he was like, can I? trust you. It's like, I hope so. You know, like, that was the first thing. That was his response to me. And I was like, okay, he's a, he's a special, special cat. Very special. Well, you hear him way back in the day. We were talking about this last time when we hung out. He was in a group called Third Base. And he's in that song, Gas Face. And his voice is like different. He seems like more of like he's trying to be this like more square like cut and dry rapper yeah yeah like tribe called quest vibe a little bit 100% early 90s and then he like goes off grid i think he's homeless for a while and he comes back as doom and you're like oh my god like his voice is different and man yeah he

he'd been through something he's you know he'd been through a lot actually but um but yeah there was there's something about it he locked in he figured it out he just fully embraced to the villain I think there's a really cool movie to make it's definite why don't you make it you're the you are the most qualified

because you make amazing movies I am the most qualified producers 100% and estate you knew the guy you made music as close to that genre

you were on a track with him between villains with Captain Burphy there's two tracks yeah there's two tracks there was a we're supposed to do EP together. Okay. We had a whole bunch of stuff on his computer. Okay.

You know, the classic Yeah. Classic tale of like a hard drive full of stuff. A lot of it, there's a lot of my stuff on there. And, uh, Thundercat. What's going to happen to that? Let's get that out. I know, I know. I know. Estate. Estate. Movie and hard drive.

Yeah. Um, Thundercat actually got to see him close to the end. He went, I think he saw him at his house. in London. He was over there. He was staying in London for a while, so you've got to have him talk about that. Oh, I'm curious. That's amazing. Okay, let's keep going with the crazy list. Kendrick. Ooh, actual genius. Actual genius. Weird little guy.

I remember asking Kendrick, yo, man, what books are you reading? it was like oh man i don't be reading man you know power of now i was like okay all right that's cool i was so surprised someone like him who has so much to say and um very thoughtful didn't didn't like reading didn't like reading books and stuff i just felt like it was all in there i thought it was all books. Yeah. I felt like he was always referencing books in his work. He is referencing. I wonder if some people are just kind of tapped into and they're channeling. Yeah. Yeah. It's just like, yeah, actual genius. He, um, you know, it's the kind of person that shows up, writes it on the spot. No, no fanfare. Yeah. You know, he came through wearing some like, you know, some, some slippers with some socks on.

wears some shorts and a hoodie and just kind of, you know, just kind of came through and killed it, bro. Like, um, would you say best battle rapper of all the time? Hmm, I wouldn't put it in a battle rapper category personally. I think he's, he's definitely one of the most important voices in, in music. Um, to Pimp a Butterfly is a classic album. Amazing. Um, yeah, I have, one of those people.

too. You're just like, it's so, you're like, wow, okay, I don't want to get in your way. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I actually don't want to be, I don't want to be near you. I just want you to be able to exist and not,

you know, like it's, there's something very, um, he has this sort of, um, I don't know, this vibe about him where he's just like, super quiet. Yeah. So maybe he's in his head. You don't say much. So I just was like,

I just want him to do his thing. I don't want to interfere or interrupt whatever his, whatever is going on. His process. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Who's top five for you, MCs? Oof, he's up there. If not, you know, number, you know, top three at least. Yeah, him, doom, man, this is the worst question to ask when I'm on camera.

I suddenly don't know any rabbit. They've all fallen off. of the earth right now. What else he got? I got a couple more. I want to get through Q-tip. Ooh, Q-tip. He's a super, super inspiring dude.

Amazing producer, as well as rapper, I think he didn't get, he doesn't get enough credit as a producer. Yeah, amazing. Yeah. Really great beats. the great energy, the voice. I don't know him that well,

but we try to collaborate on some stuff. I think sometimes the thought of working together is better than the result sometimes. For sure. But I would love to have another go at that, yeah, for sure. What about Apex Twin? Aethx is an interesting. interesting in that because, you know, he was, he was one of those people that I listened to back before I was in college without knowing who or what or why. It didn't matter. It was just dope. It was just cool electronic music. Square Pusher, Amontobin. Those guys were kind of like in my sphere. I wasn't like fully in the electronic zone.

Yeah. But those were like the kind of auxiliary pillars for my ears. But I always found a lot of inspiration from the music videos, Chris Cunningham videos. And when they did that director series back in the day of the DVDs, they had just had all the collections of music videos from like Chris Cunningham, Michelle Gondry and so on. And I always just would run those.

We'd run those so much and just like, just pick them apart just because, you know, being in film school and thinking about music, music videos, like, those were the most cutting edge. Those were, you know, that series, that director series. I wish they would re-release those on, you know, 4K, whatever things now. Yeah. I don't think it'll ever happen. Yeah. Okay, final one in this series, Kanye. You know, Kanye.

It's funny, man. I actually, I never really had the like, I'm a super Kanye fan. I never had that thing. But I did love Yeezis. I didn't like it when I first heard it, then I really grew on me. And I think that that album,

regardless of what, you know, he has become... I feel like that album was really, really ahead of its time, and it set a tone for many years in music, not just hip-hop, just in music in general. I think that sound, it kind of expanded, and people took it in different directions, and I think, you know, there's so much of, like,

electronic music that has come from that and hip hop and the intersection that's very influential stuff yeah but but yeah what a fucking nutcase yeah crazy yeah I'm not one of those Kanye sympathizers man

I fell off the train when he said slavery was a choice I was off that mother yeah yeah yeah yeah I'm gonna get off now Yeah, fully tripping. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, I just hope he's okay, man, because he's musically a big inspiration. I love him.

I think he's amazing, and I just wish, I don't know, I wish he would just stop whatever it's going on now. I don't know. It feels like he's definitely trying to get a rise. Like, it's like, if there is a third rail, he'll touch it, he'll hit it. And then there's some other part where, like,

is he even in control? Like, I don't know. Yeah, well, you know, Mental illness is a thing, man. Yes. It's a thing and people are capable of being very successful and mentally ill at the same time. That is a thing. Often they're correlated.

Right. And also, too, like, you know, the dude, he's just like, yeah, yeah. Got probably like a lot of yes men around. people like enablers, people just like, I mean, he's got a cult, you know, and people who are still apologizing for him constantly and just be like, oh, you know, he's just, he's going through it, you know. But it's also got to be really hard for someone like him to have been at the top of the music pyramid or whatever and to now just kind of just be existing among other great people,

not being the greatest and top. telling most Grammy collecting person or whatever. Like, it's got to be a little difficult for you. 100%. A little fall from grace there. Yeah, it's got to be. It's got to weigh on you. Who are your biggest inspirations when it comes to filmmaking?

You put David Lynch in one of your videos and songs. You already know. You already know. Did I just answer it for you? Yeah, I think you did. I think you did. Yeah, David Lynch, who. he was...

You have a favorite David Lynch movie? The favorite David Lynch movie is probably a racerhead. That makes sense because of the movies you make. That is such a crazy movie. Yeah, it's a crazy. All this stuff is pretty out. Lost Highway. So I got into David Lynch through being a fan of Trent Resner back in the day,

which is really, it trips me out when I think about it. Because he worked on Lost Highway. He did some music for Lost Highway. and I was following him at that time. Okay. And then I was like, oh, what's this movie? Who's this guy? Lost Highway.

Loved it. And then I kind of got way in at that point. And he was one of those people too early on where I was like, oh, maybe I should go to film school. Maybe this is for me. Because I really love this. I really love this. And I think he also really got me inspired,

aside from the filmmaking, more so like the living the art life, as they say, you know, where you just kind of fully commit, you're fully in it, you know,

that guy's tapped in. Yeah, you wake up, you smoke and you get to work and you, that's your life. Just create. Yeah, that's your life. And that's how I live my life. Sand's the smoking part.

It was weed, but I've given that up a bit. But yeah, like I'm seeing that and seeing that it worked for someone and that they've made the best some of the best things it's like okay it's okay for me to be this way oh yeah you know it's I can I can do this and I can live this way and it's okay you know you kind of make sacrifices you know you have to have like whatever that regular life is it's almost like his life itself is art. Like, you see him doing the weather in the morning. And I remember I ended up at his house

because of some TM, you know, transcendental meditation benefit. And he was giving some speech. And it was about, you know, it's like, y'all you got to do is tap in twice a day, you know, the old TM thing. And I was like, this guy's on another level. Like, he's on another planet right now. And he's getting downloads. And he's truly amazing. And I feel like a lot of filmmakers try to do the David Lynch thing and they fail. Like they get so. hard. Yeah, well, I think, I think the issue comes from people still feeling like they need to satisfy the audience and have some sort of like making sure everyone knows what's happening and having closure. And it's like there's a difference where I think with his work, it's more so about

how something feels versus how something, what it means or what it's supposed to do. or where the story is supposed to go. It's more so the feeling that it gives you. And I think he always tells people that you know what it means. Yeah. Even if you don't think you do. Yes. Yeah. And it's, it truly, I feel like he'll break a lot of sacred cows or, you know, do things that you're not supposed to do.

But it like, it just works. And I'd say Blue Velvet for me is one of my favorite movies all time. It's so good. It's so good. I love that one too because it's such a good gateway. David Lynch movie because it starts off, you know, like most movies in a way, it starts off kind of simply. And actually, of all the stuff, it is kind of more commercial leaning. So it's one of those ones.

It gets weirder. You said this place was steps from the water. We just haven't found the steps yet. How much did we save? Enough. Enough to get lost. Or you could book a stay with Hilton. Welcome to your oceanfront room.

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I'll never forget the scene near the end. Spoiler alert. You know what? They deserve for a two-spoly. You haven't seen blue velvet. Can you show a clip of this? Can you show a clip? I might be able to.

We'll try. Maybe a frame. Yeah. You'll show a little frame for sure. All right. All right. So the frame is when, what's the guy's name? What's his name?

Kyle McLaughlin? Kyle McLaughlin, yeah, the main character. When he walks into Homegirl's apartment and some shit had already gone down and there's the detective who was like wearing the yellow suit and he's just standing there, he's already been shot in the head, but he's standing there still. I love that image so much. It was so haunting, dude. Like, that kind of thing.

It's just so surreal and such a kind of like, wait, is this a mainstream movie? Is this not? But it's just one of those things. Like, that's, you can see his painting background right there. Because that's like, that's just like some, yeah, some bugged out. Totally. And I feel like it's a juxtaposition between this like suburban, like, suburban, like kind of fake light vibe.

Like in the first scene, I think, is like some dude watering the garden or whatever. And he like chokes himself. Fire truck, we're going by, all the other. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, he's the best man. And so you, like, how many years have been like eight years that you've been making movies now? Or have you been before that on a smaller scale? Or how long have you been making movies?

Well, if you want to go there. For a while. I started messing around with camera a long time ago when I was a kid. When I was in film school, I made a short film called Use Me, which won the audience award at the time. And I've just been always messing around with stuff. My friends have seen all my work,

but the rest of the world has it. Dude, I love it. It's crazy. Like Cuso and VHS. and Ash are all epic and they break your brain like it's what art is supposed to be I think like it's really they're all

insane so everybody got to go watch Kuso was fun and it's crazy my favorite that thing yeah Kuso is fun because it's at that point now where people are reexamining it and they're like man that movie I love Kusso but at the time people were just like what the fuck are you thinking

you're doing? What are you doing? You can't do this you can't do this and it was really right that movie came out like right before you couldn't really do anything anymore. It was like right when they started like... Oh, the little cancel culture vibe. Right, right. And I feel like I felt that coming on.

Like, you know, just people's were getting a little sensitive to stuff. But I feel like now, because things have gotten so stale in a way, something like that kind of stands out. It's coming back. Yeah. I think like Gen Z, Gen Alpha, I think they're just like, fuck this. Like, we like good art. Like, it's all good. Some of the people who saw Ash were like, oh, man, I don't know.

It's not like Kuso, man. And I'm like, well, all right, fair enough. It's definitely not Kuso. No, Kuso is the, we'll break your brain. Ash is a little more of a movie movie, like structured. Ash is amazing, man. And I feel like it, like, really plays on themes that are growing in the Zykeyes. right now. It's kind of the AI theme

a little bit. And it's also it's a little bit of the pandemic COVID thing going on as well where you have this kind of brain eating like, you know, parasite that takes over. I don't want to spoil that either. You spoiled it all right? It might have just spoiled it. Yeah, it's true. Let it happen. Just let it happen.

That's cool. But that was amazing. It's an amazing cast. It's funny though because when I think of that movie now, I feel like if only I had done it now that I know so much about the, you know, the, the, the, the UFO phenomenon lore. Yeah. It would probably be a little different.

Or I would have a different take on some of the stuff that I did. How so? I don't know off top, but I just feel like now I shouldn't be making the alien UFO stuff. And maybe the next one will be, but I feel way more qualified to tackle it. the topic now just because I've been so deep in it, you know, but, you know, there are so many stories to tell, you know. So many. So many that are, that are, you know, one of those things where it's like, it's stranger than fiction. I was, you just took the words out of my mouth. I was like, that's what I love about the UFO topic is it is weirder than fiction. Yeah. And that's

a cliche to say, but it's true. It's absolutely. You hear some of these stories, you're like, what happened? And then you're like sitting in. front of the guy and you're like you have no mental health history and you're in a high position in government and like security clearance is all that he's saying all that yep wild crazy wild but yeah i find so much inspiration and just listening to the stuff whether or not it's true or not it doesn't matter it's like i just find it fascinating like yeah keep talking well i can't wait to see the fly low UFO alien movie neither can i neither can i and neither can my friends because i can't stop talking about it. So they're ready. I love it. It's one of those things where once you go down

the rabbit hole, it's like hard to not be annoying about it. I know. I really had to just try to just not go there. But, you know, some people will be like, all right, so what, give me the doubt. What's going on? And you always get loop back in. You get tired of it. And you're like, oh, this is crazy. There are all these sciops. There are all these full of shit people. And then you take a break and then something happens. You're like, fucking back. True, yeah, man, when that damn, because I used to really fuck with Jeremy Corbell and George Knapp, but then when Jeremy Corbell went on that whole tangent about the missing page and the fact that he, his name was taken off of the whole thing and it just really rubbed me the wrong way.

The whole thing made a big old stink about it. Yeah, that was weird. And it was obvious that it's like, it's not about you. It's not about you. Yeah, it was like that that's an official government document. And what really got me was Matthew Brown met Schellenberger before Jeremy. Right, right, right. And he's not putting a cover letter promoting his podcast or what.

So like, I didn't quite get that. And you're going to separate the Matthew Brown interview in the three parts to next week. Yeah, yeah, yeah. For the next episode of Disclosure. Yeah. I like Jeremy, but yeah. I mean, I'm still watching the shit. So obviously I do too.

But it's just, it's, it's, it's all the stuff just makes me, it makes the unease part. Well, that. Totally. Well, Matthew Brown also requires a follow-up. Like, yeah. The stuff that he said, it was like, you know, I, I saw these documents, Immaculate Conce. Here's the, maybe the weirdest, most interesting thing. It was like, I figured out Immaculate Constellation, Lou Elizondo's name was tied to that program.

And then Lou Alizando's testifying with Michael Shelman. I can't confirm or deny whether I was red in basically saying I was right into this shit. So it's like, Lou, like, tell us, man. And then you have Corbell like doing speaking tours with Lou and stuff. So it's like, let's take this thing a little bit further. And then Matthew Brown gets into, he just tweeted the other day. I don't know if you saw it. Oh, he tweeted the weirdest.

Like it was like talking about how the White House has like a crystal ball, basically. Like they have some proprietary AI that like predicts. future timelines, which is from a story base. Like if I were trying to be inspired for like a movie, like so interesting. But like it's like, dude, where are you getting that? Like it's, that's fascinating. That would be crazy if true. Crazy of true.

And I want to know. And we de-med a little bit, but Matthew, if you're out there, follow up with me. I know you said he wanted to talk. Because that's insane. It's true. That's like, that's fascinating. Yeah. And implying that like, what else was, did he say?

He said a lot in that interview, too. He said a lot. He said a lot. And he said that there is a god, but that we're in kind of like this prison planet and that these, you know, beings are, you know, we're kind of like captured by some of these beings. Well, we're like an energy source or something like that.

An energy source. Yeah, we're a resource. That's what we said, yeah. Yeah, I don't know. That's kind of dark. I don't know. I don't know if I want to believe that that's it, you know? Hopefully there's some more meaningful shit going on.

I hope so, too, man. We're not just getting mined. I wouldn't be surprised, though. But they'll stop eventually. They're like, hey, you know what's funny, though? I keep you thinking about this shit. Like, aside from the Barney Hill. Yeah.

Any of the black abductees out there? Hmm. Well, is it like a white. That is the OG. That is, we talked about this last time. That is the OG, you know, abduction. Yeah. But that's a great question.

I mean, aerial school, right? Aerial school, for sure. And there's that little girl who says, she says, in space there's no love and we have love. And so that's why the being wanted to come down and interact or whatever. I think that in space there's no love. And down here there is. There is love.

Yes. So. But yeah, like, they're not. But you think the ratio is a little off. They're not taking no black people at nighttime coming in your crib and, like, taking it. It's for some reason. You think it's a it's a lower percentage than the percentage of the population. Or I mean, maybe it's just not reported or something, but I don't, I don't know. I find that really fascinating. If you, if you could find some like a book of black abductees or

whatever, I want that book. Let's, audience, let's get the stats on that. Yeah, yeah. It's a, it's a funny thing. Yeah. Well, yeah, I mean, the first one, I mean, I don't know if they were the first, but the first very documented, you know. But that is interesting. I don't know. Well, Flylow, this was an honor. That's it? No.

How long? I think we were for three hours. That was three hours? This was amazing, man. I'm anything else that we're missing here? I'm trying to think. We might have got it, man. We might have got it.

But keep fighting a good fight, man. Thank you, bro. I will. And you too. And I'm doing my best. Yeah. But play some more than beat. though. Y'all don't know that that's his beat in the intro for the show like yeah I found I figured that one out.

Oh man most of my beats put some more beats on dog. Dude I can't I can't be talking to you about beats. I'll tell you to do it. I tell you keep going. Okay. Yeah, okay. I keep going. I need to. I need to. But it's therapy, you know. But then I hear your beats and other people who I like admire and I'm like I can't make beats. It's supposed to be fun first. Okay. It's fun first, man. Like, have fun, you know, and just explore, you know, if something happens, great. But, like, just have fun with it. That's the thing I have to remind myself to do. Yeah.

You know, like, I have so much pressure when I sit in the chair to do anything now. That I have to remind myself that, like, no one has to hear or see or anything. Like, I can just have fun doing this. Isn't that interesting about art where you start and there's no self-consciousness? and then you become this thing for other, like, Flying Lotus, you're like a concept for, like, other people. But you're, like, still in your head. You're like, I'm just this dude.

But maybe sometimes when you sit down, you're like, I got to, like, adhere to this level of quality that I've done. Absolutely. And it's a daunting thing to just have a catalog and a lineage and history and all this stuff. But at the end of the day, I know that people can hear when I'm having a good time. I know it. That's beautiful. I think y'all can hear it.

Yeah. You can hear when I'm inspired and when I'm having good time. It's like it's obvious, I think. Do you sometimes look back at your life and you're like, damn, like, this is stranger than fiction? Like, it's a movie, the amount of people you've intersected with and your own insane career and then how much you've been able to do in cinema and you've done, I mean, deeper cut people. know Captain Murphy that you rap to and hip hop production, like everything. Do you ever think of that? I do.

And I feel like, I just feel very grateful, man. I feel very grateful every day. I has written on my refrigerator, be grateful. Because I am, it's just I have the best job in the world. And I have so much love and support for all my endeavors, you know. Of course, some people don't like what I do. Some people like this. Some people don't like that.

Cosma Graham was the only good thing he did. It's fine. You know, but like I'm having a great time and I'm creating stuff. And I always try to hold on to that part, the innocent part of that, because it's, it's, they want to take it from you. You know, as soon as you start putting stuff out,

they want to take that. And, you know, your management, you got managers and people in your pocket and your families and then people want to need money and you got to, like, support, you know. And the legal aspects of music. All that stuff. and the ownership and the, yeah, instead of just like creating.

Yeah, and it's all, all gets in the way of the fun. And it gets too heady. So, yeah, trying to hold on to that, man, is a thing. And like kind of trying to always stay inspired, always chasing whatever that will keep me happy and inspired. It's the thing. I love it. Well, I don't know if I'm going to start making beats again,

but maybe I'll send you some samples because that, It's funny. I have a little bit of an encyclopedia mind with the UFO stuff. And then it's, and then it's samples. I know. It's crazy. I was so shocked when you started like, you know, dropping tunes on me.

I was like, dude, you know your thing, man. I mean, I love it. I love it. I don't know. Well, it's more impressive to make this stuff. You got to send me some playlists, man. You got to send me. I'll send you some stuff.

I'm sure you've heard everything that I'm sure you're deeper on all I may know a thing or two, but it's still nice to hear where your ears at. But I'll send you some old soul, like, I'll send you some samples. Come on, dog. I will. Let's get it. You promised me those samples when we first started talking. I feel like that was early this year, and I still ain't got nothing.

Okay, okay. I'll send you some. I know, I know you're a busy man, you know? You got a lot going on. So I give you paths, but I'm waiting. Okay, I will send you samples, and you can do so much more with these samples. in me so I really need to send you. Yeah, get sued.

That's what I'm a good. You can't really sample anymore, huh? It's just you got to just interpolate or whatever. It's a wrap, especially, you know, where I'm at, you know, people are like ready to flag. Ah, because you're so big. Whatever you want to say about it, they know I'm. They're looking for it. So, like, it's not fun.

So, like, that's why I end up doing a lot more keyboard stuff and less sampling just because it's like. Why did that? Because, like, back in the day. They would clear sample. Like, you think about like... They would? Yeah.

No, they wouldn't. Well, I'm just thinking about like juicy fruit and two may or whatever or like, I don't know, upside down from Diana Ross. And, you know, it's like, you're taking the whole song. Like, that's not even sampling is generous or whatever. You are literally taking a loop from the song and then putting some drums over it or whatever. Yeah. Like, so like, I look at that and I'm like, why aren't they getting it? Why isn't there some big legal thing with that?

Maybe some of the samples were cleared. They were cleared. But a lot of times, it's not necessarily the artists who will sue you. It's their kids. You know? Like that. The grandkids coming after. You know, like, because they're in charge of the estate.

Right. And they be listening. Right. Like that Robin Thick, Farrell, blurred lines, Marvin Gay. Or the baseline or whatever. Yeah. That was bad luck, though. That was bad.

You think that was just, like, really, like, too much. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, you should have saw something. Interesting. You should saw someone looking over. You should be looking over your shoulders doing that kind of thing. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, that was an obvious base. Yeah, that was kind of maybe a little rip-off. Well, it's hard to say, I don't know. I'm usually pro the person taking the stuff.

And it's like you're doing something new with it. I am too. But again, you can't speak for the estate. And being a person who's, you know, my grandma, she wrote, Love Hangover. Yep. And people sampling her music is how we ate for years. Yeah, totally.

I love that song, by the way. Yeah. There's a cure for this. But, you know, people sampling that was like, you know, bone thugs sampled it. Like, Will Smith sampled it. Like so many people had sampled her stuff. And, yeah, man, like, we probably would have been out on the streets if it wasn't for,

you know, people clearing those samples. Mm-mm. And you know, playing stuff on the radio. Yeah. Yeah, that was, that's how we ate. So I totally see, I know the game. I get it. I get it.

People got to eat. So, yeah, that makes sense. And she deserves all the credit for that. I mean, what about, didn't she do stuff for Lamont Dozier back in the day, too? I believe so. I don't know, though, actually. I think so. I don't know.

Under a different, there was a group or something? Because he would, Lamont Dozier was in one of those groups. So I'm blanking on which one. But he also had a solo career. And he was a great solo artist. But I thought she might have written something for him. Put me on, dude. Tell me.

That'd be awesome. I mean, look, people have been telling me stuff like that, though. Like, she had done some stuff in her Motown era that I hadn't heard. You know, my grandma was around. She was, like, more so writing, trying to write new songs and trying to, you know, write jingles and stuff. So she wasn't really focused on the back catalog as much. It was just like when those samples and things would come up,

it would just feel like, oh. And like, even the free to paint and I get high, I didn't even know she did that until the Stiles P. Stiles P. I didn't even know she did a song about getting high, dude. I was like, what, grandma? I had no idea. That's a beautiful song.

The original is a. It's like ethereal and opulent. Dude, we got some really amazing sound. I feel like writers back in the day in that Motown era were the most underappreciated. Like you think about, I think about the Motown roster, obviously like greatest of all time, maybe record label, maybe ever. But like really, the Lynchpin? I feel like it's Smokey Robinson who was writing all the stuff for everybody else.

I'm like, damn, like, how did you write that? When you need to build up your team to handle the growing, chaos at work. Use Indeed sponsored jobs. It gives your job post the boost it needs to be seen and helps reach people with the right skills, certifications, and more. Spend less time searching and more time actually interviewing

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of the, just some of the session musicians, you know, who they would call back and stuff that would be like, that would be part of the sound. That's part of like the foundation for all this great music. And then they would sometimes get sick of writing and they'd be like, we want the, we want to be up and up front, like, um, like Thundercat. Like Thundercat, there you go. That's a great example. Or I remember like, you know, like McFadden and Whitehead like, hey, no stopping us now.

Like they were writers before. You know, a lot of it. Yeah, yeah, my, my grandma was doing, she had her own music at the time, too. And, you know, I don't think much happened with her own stuff, her own personal music. But yeah, there was, I think a lot of those writers were musicians and wanted to have a career singing. And, you know, maybe didn't pop off, but they could write. But it's a thing. I would see still, um.

She wrote for Junior Walker, too. Yeah, I just came here. Yeah. Yeah. I loved you. It's awesome. But yeah, man, like even in modern days, you see it. There's just, there's people who was like, see it.

She was like a songwriter, but she was like kind of like a background and character. Didn't want to. And then, yeah, she was like, you know what? I'm doing my thing. I'm not going to show my face though. Yeah, never. Never. Yeah.

At world, that's, she won. That's the move. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And you can just hide. Incredible.

Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Maybe she was inspired by MFD. I was thinking about that, dude, I was like, man, dude, we really did figure it out, didn't he? He figured it out. Yeah, man. I was funny because I only just made the connection to the gladiator mask.

Oh, dude, it looks the same. I just didn't. What did you just said it? I was like, what is that? Oh, yeah. That's wild. So he must have been basing it off of Gladiator. Because Gladiator.

I feel like that, I don't know where the mask. mask comes from, but that is like the same mask. It's the same mask. Yeah. Because you have it, it goes below the chin. Yeah. Whoa. That's trippy.

Yeah. Man, his stuff is so, like, the metal fingers, beats and stuff, too. It was funny, man, when I first got into that, that's the whole, like, these are some of the worst beats I've ever heard. Well, they're just, like, raw as hell. And then eventually, they're like, come the best beats you've ever heard, you know? Yeah. Well, he would just take, well, they were all named after root. Yeah, yeah.

And then he would just take, like, a Doobie Brothers loop and just throw it on there. And throw the worst snares on. Yeah. And then eventually, like, okay, I get it. It would just kind of work. Yeah, absolutely. Like, okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I love it, man. Well, round two. Yeah, yeah, yeah. All right, we'll actually finish this time. Actually wrapping up. I could talk to you for hours, man. Yeah, man. Fly low, this was an honor, true honor.

And hopefully we come back. when you are making your movie, your crazy movie. I would love to. I would love to. And thank you for having me. Honestly, it's so cool to be on the other side of this, man. Oh, man. I appreciate it.

And I owe you some sample. I'm now publicly being held accountable for this. Yeah, yeah. I need it. It's time. Okay. I might not put it out. If you did, that would be a life moment for me on the order of like probably more

important than anything I've done. You know when you do a thing in the domain, you kind of know you're okay at or whatever? You're like, all right, fine. This would be so much cooler for me. That has got to happen. So let me some shit. Let's get it going. Let me send you some shit. That would be crazy. That would be. Appreciate you, man. Thank you, thank you. You know, that just got me thinking. Like, you know, Joaquin Phoenix provided push a tea with a beat? No way. Do you know about this? No, no, no, I think like that King Push song. No way. Yeah.

I don't know if he gave it to him and it was produced by somebody, but he, yeah, it came from Jo, Jo, Wachene Phoenix. Jo, Wachene Phoenix gave the beat to Ye. So when I got the beat from Yeh, it was, yo, Jo, Jo, Jo, Joaquin gave me his beat. That's interesting. Really weird. I've been hearing about some low-key producers. Hmm. Robert Pattinson be making beats.

No way. Yeah, dude. Is it good? I don't know. I've been trying to get them. That's crazy. So just for my curiosity. Yeah.

Gotta know. Oh, wow. Got to know. Oh, that's so cool. Yeah. I just, I don't know how to do drum. I'm so good at the sample selection, and then I just always sucked at drums. Do you program them in?

Yeah, just MIDI, yeah. That's why. Oh, you got to play them. But I don't think I can play them. I just, I don't know. You can. Really? Don't knock it yet.

Just try it. Really? The click in the beats thing is difficult. It's difficult to get a vibe. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's really difficult. And I actually do that sometimes knowing what it's going to sound like. Like sometimes I want stuff to sound rigid on purpose.

Yes. But like it's only then because like I just cannot. And a lot of people do that. A lot of people just click a man and all. I just cannot do it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. If I want that feel. Yeah.

But like you got it. But I remember like there's a Kanye interview where he's like, I can, he says he, I mean, he's amazing. But he was like, I can never figure. out drums. He was like, my drums didn't slap like Dilla. He was like, my drums were not like Travis Scott. Yeah, but his drums, he did his thing with what he did his thing with what he's got, you know, and I think, I think, you know, Doom did his thing with his thing. But when you listen to early Kanye, like his first track ever for Rockefeller, I think was Beanie Siegel and Jay, this Can't Beanie Life on one of Beanie Siegel's random mixtapes. And you hear the drums and you're

like, these are garbage. Like, these are not good drums. Yeah. And then half the drums are like impeach the president, you know, fucking generic ass shit. But you just got to try sound for sound. Don't do like the whole kid. Don't be trying to play the whole kid.

Just do like, just do some high hats first. Play those in. Play those in. Yeah, you can even pontize them later. But just put the high hats in. Okay. You know, do the snare. Okay.

Okay. But another thing for you. Yeah. In that case, because now you put me on. Yeah. Is do your drums first. Oh. And then try to form your sampling around the drums versus using the sample.

Mm. Trust me. Okay. Yeah. Okay. It's like, I have trouble with that sometimes. Like, because finding the right pairing can be really, can be really challenging. Yeah.

But like, if you set the drums first and you get a good, groove with them drums, then something else can happen. Then maybe you might think. I feel like you're more optimistic than me, but I will try. Oh, man, you can do it. You can do it. You just got to have the time. Appreciate you, man. Yeah, yeah. All right. Yeah. All right. We're actually done now. Actually done.

Quick heads up for you guys. American Alchemy merch just dropped. It's all super high quality, 100% cotton, embroidered hats, clean designs. I wore the logo tee on Rogan. It's up now. go to American Alchemymerch.com to check it out. Thanks for the support. It means a lot.