American Alchemy with Jesse Michels - Meet The Scientist Who Studies Alien Implants in Human Bodies

Episode Date: March 22, 2026

Factor: Head to https://factormeals.coma/lchemy50off and use code alchemy50off to get 50 percent off and free breakfast for a year! ExpressVPN: Get 4 months free at https://www.expressvpn.com/americanalchemy Our American Alchemist this week is Steve Colbern. Steve Colbern spent over two decades as the principal laboratory analyst for Dr. Roger Leir, the podiatric surgeon who removed 17 suspected alien implants from 17 different patients across a roughly 20-year period out of Thousand Oaks, California. Colbern is a chemist and materials scientist who had access to advanced analytic equipment through his work in Camarillo, just miles from Leir's practice. He personally attended the final three removal surgeries, including his own. He has since conducted approximately 400 independent scans on self-reported experiencers using Leir's detection protocol. About half produced positive results. -------------------------- Support Our Other Projects Below! Grab Your American Alchemy Merch Here ➤ https://www.americanalchemymerch.com/ Join The American Alchemy Magazine Here ➤ https://americanalchemymagazine.substack.com/ Subscribe To Our Clips Channel (10 Minute Highlights!) ➤ https://www.youtube.com/@UC8ZKTXN9trt5dhixz6b6l6w -------------------------- JOIN OUR WHOP (Early Drops/Ad Free) ➤ https://whop.com/jessemichels Discord ➤https://discord.gg/crHc44m3kF Instagram ➤ https://www.instagram.com/jessemichelsofficial TikTok ➤ https://www.tiktok.com/@itsjessemichels X ➤ https://twitter.com/AlchemyAmerican Spotify ➤ https://tinyurl.com/jessemichelsspotify Clips Channel ➤ https://www.youtube.com/@JesseMichelsClips Apply For Jobs ➤ [e-mail] Sponsor Inquiries ➤ [e-mail] Media Inquiries ➤ [e-mail] Timestamps: 00:00 Introduction 1:45 Longevity and Life Extension 3:22 The Legacy of Dr. Roger Lear 4:28 Understanding Alien Implants 7:32 The Nature of Alien Technology 10:36 The Experience of Abduction 12:33 Inside the UFO 15:18 The Alien Agenda 20:10 Anti-Gravity and Time Travel 31:56 The Physics of Alien Technology 39:12 The Impact of Implants 49:28 The Scope of Alien Abductions 1:06:58 Good and Bad Aliens 1:14:10 Research on Alien Implants 1:27:05 The Oklahoma City Incident 1:29:01 The Interest of Wealthy Sponsors 1:31:19 The Influence of Alien Experiences Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Shop spring backyard days for seven days at the Home Depot. Now through May 6th. Exclusion supplies to homedipo.com slash price match for details. Two small gray beings came into my room and woke me up and said, come outside, and I put on these steel-toe boots I had by the bed and went outside with them, and there was a UFO hovering at a very low altitude over the backyard. I woke up and I knew that I had an implant in my toe. The aliens had been there in the middle of the night,

and I had one more on the side of my head, too. Whoa. We found the object and we took it out. It looked like nothing that I had ever. ever removed before. If you can just feel my hair right there, you see that there's... Oh, yeah. There's something in his ear.

Mine that sticks to my ear. Whoa. Whoa. Some of my favorite interviews have been these guys, they have implants, you know, they're close encounters of the third kind, type two abductions. I go in for the post-operation meeting with the doctor, and he said, I found something in your right nostril that was so hard, I almost couldn't break through it. How many people do you think are walking around with alien implants inside of them?

350,000 people. These people are way too powerful to fight. And they're experts at mind control. They can make you do anything they want you to do willingly. The beings that implanted you think good or bad? We've talked a bit about longevity and life extension on this show. extending your telomeres, metabolic optimization, and the through line is always the same. Most of what determines how long you live comes down to really basic stuff, not these more exotic

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purchase. Do yourself a favor now. Make healthier eating easy with Factor. Steve Colburn, I am so grateful that you're here. This has been a long time coming. I was just saying offset I've been trying to get in touch with you for the last two or three years, maybe. I've followed your work. It seems like in UFO world, we seem stuck on the existence or non-existence of lights in the sky. Right. And there's a whole kind of history of research, deep research, from very credentialed people discussing kind of deeper threads, if you will, around close encounters of the third kind, abductions, implants, often being found in these people's bodies.

There's a legendary UFO researcher named Dr. Roger Lear, who everybody likes to pay homage to. And I view you as kind of his living air in many ways. Yeah, I guess that's about right these days. I mean, nobody else has taken up the research, and he taught me everything he knew. would very much like to continue the research when funding becomes available. It's crazy that funding should be completely available. This is like the most interesting stuff. So let's just establish for the audience, who is Dr. Roger Lear?

He's known as this sort of alien implant doctor. What was his background? How did he get into this? Well, he was a podiatrist, and he was always interested in UFOs. was the most knowledgeable ephologist I've ever met. And he was at a UFO conference once, and Daryl Sims tried to get him injured an alien implants. He thought the subject was ridiculous at first.

Then he finally said, one of his friends convinced him to take another look at it. So he said to Daryl, well, you know, get some of these people down here to my office and we'll get him x-rayed and take the object out and see what it is. And so that's how the research started. And he ended up taking out 17 objects from 17 different people over about a 20-year period. We found the object, the first one, and we took it out. It looked like nothing that I had ever removed before in a way of a foreign body. And believe me, I had removed all sorts of things from even a hair to paste.

to metals of various kinds and so on. I never saw anything like this. It was a T-shaped affair that was wrapped in a very tight biological tissue, which was this really strange color and texture. And then we took a scalpel and we wanted to see what was inside. That's the idea of the whole thing. And we were amazed to find that we couldn't cut through this biological tissue. It came back with absolutely no inflammatory response.

Now, that really makes you want to scratch your head because how do you get something into the human body and not have the body react to it? Well, that just doesn't happen. Maybe there's some weirded out explanation that I didn't understand from one site, maybe two sites, but three sites from two different people,

that's just a little too much to handle. And where was he based? I found out that Dr. Lear was working in Thousand Oaks when I was working in Camryo, California, only a few miles away. And I had some, a weird experience where I saw these giant raccoons in my backyard when I was at the house alone one night. And I fed the animals and observed them for some time. and there were about between 75 and 100 pounds, I'd estimate. I didn't even know raccoons got that big. And evidently there were scout animals for the aliens because I went to bed

and woke up about 8 o'clock the next morning and had a bad stinging pain in my toe. And I had reason to believe it was some kind of an implant. And so I went to see Dr. Lear. And I don't think he believed me at first, but he gave me a prescription to get the toe x-rayed. And I knew we were going to see something on the x-ray, but when I did, that changed my life forever. It looked like a bent piece of wire on the x-ray. And I didn't remember getting any trapnel in there or anything like that.

So it was quite an experience. Then he got funding from Jaime Massan to remove it a few months later. And he didn't have anybody to analyze it. So where I was working at the time, I had access to a lot of analytical equipment. So I analyzed it for them, and it turned out to be a sophisticated nanotechnological device. Have you read my paper on that implant? I have not. Let's hear about it. Well, it turned out to have very skewed isotopic ratios and several elements that were in the metallic core.

and to the extent that it looked like it probably came from another part of the galaxy, not just another planet. But how can you know that from the isotope ratios? Well, because the isotope ratios are characteristic of elements from different places. And if they're off by more than a percent or so, that means it's not from Earth. These were off by up to like 30 percent. What were the elements and what were the isotopes? The first one, I think it was boron, boron and copper.

And there were similar results from other influence I analyzed. And anyway, the structure of the device was a gray hard-to-cut membrane. And below that, a layer of material that was similar to bone, like a biological hard part, like bone or mother-of-pearl. Then below that, a metallic core that made of meteoric iron with carbon nanotubes inside the metal. And nerve cells connected to the device. The pain in my toe got worse over a period of days and led to a lot of electric shock type pain whenever I put me weight on the toe. and I think that was the nerve cells

roaring in the device. These devices also produce no physiological reaction in the body, and that's unheard of. Foreign objects always produce a physiological response. So there's no immune response? No immune response, right? Really interesting. And could these elements and isotopes theoretically

have been produced in some sort of centrifuge? You could, but in order to produce those exact ratios that would probably cost millions of dollars and it'd be very difficult to do so the question is why and why would anybody do that why would anybody do that yeah um do you remember undergoing some sort of alien abduction experience prior to that being in your toe i didn't remember it consciously but i underwent a regressive hypnosis and remembered uh aliens putting in the device yeah what was that experience like? Well, two gray, small gray beings came into my room and woke me up and said, come outside. And I put on these steel-toe boots I had by the bed and went outside with them.

And there was a UFO hovering at a very low altitude over the backyard, over this avocado tree I had at the Fillmore House. And they indicated that I should stand below the center. of the center of the craft and took me up with a tractor beam. And Star Trek got it right, by the way. It's like a blue or greenish beam that lifts things, a gravity beam. And the center of the craft, it was about 50 feet in diameter, similar to Lazare's sport model, if you're familiar with that. Oh, yeah. And the center of the device or craft was an airlock that had human and alien spacesuits available.

and there were four doors leading to the four quadrants of the craft. Then there was a habitation ring around the outside and a pilot station with two pilots. And it appeared to be thought-controlled. They had their hands in a panel and on top of a panel and screens where they were observing different things. and they took me around to the station at 90 degrees, so the pilot station, and there was a couch that slid out of the wall, and this guy indicated me for me to lie down,

and it was a taller gray, and he took out a device that looked like a black plastic candle with a piece of quarter-inch stainless steel tubing on it, and touched it to my toe and pushed a button, and that must have put the implant in. And there were fiber optics going down the center of this piece of tubing, and I think that's what activates the device, EV-Light. And I think that's what accounts for these red marks you see on Experiencers,

too. I think there are mini sunburns from UV-Light. Interesting. And so how long were you up there for? Um, about an hour. Um, they waited for a long time for orders, I think, before actually putting in the device because I think because they knew it'd start an investigation. And they weren't sure they wanted that because a bunch of weird stuff had been happening previously. And, um, um, where were you living at the time? Fillmore, California. Okay, Fillmore. And was this during that night?

Yeah, it was a night about three in the morning. They usually come about two or three in the morning. And so finally, after about beating up for about 45 minutes, I go, like, guys, you know, I'm tired. If you're not going to do anything, then let me go back to bed. And so they put the device in at that point. That didn't take very long once they decided to make up their minds. Are you communicating telepathies?

Yeah, it's telepathically. Okay. Do you see any symbols around the craft? Yeah, there were some symbols that looked like hieroglyphics. I'm labeling the instruments on the pilot station and on some of the walls. They had a, I believe they had a vector symbol, a blue vector symbol on the wall, a pretty big symbol, and that had two dots, circles below it. And their uniforms are usually cobalt blue and have either a snake with a snake over a triangle or three orange circles arranged in an equilateral triangle.

And I'm led to believe that the three orange circles arranged in an equilateral triangle is the symbol of the gray alliance. The grays are not one species. There are like seven, I believe, seven different species of similar aliens that are bound by treaty and come to us from planets within 100 light years of here. How are you getting that? I believe they told me. Oh, they told you that. And what else did they tell you? A lot of stuff about physics and propulsion, most of which I can't remember consciously.

Do you remember anything about the physics and propulsion? Yeah, yeah. They use a combination of several methods to create any gravity, and they definitely have anti-gravity drives, and they use three different methods to create anti-gravity. Do you remember the methods? Yeah, one is a home polar generator. If you take a disk, the basic home-pullar generator is a disk,

metallic disc rotating in a perpendicular magnetic field, and it creates a voltage between the center and the outside of the disk. And the aliens use a version of that to create most of their lift where they circulate molten metal around the outside of the craft that's magnetic from analyzing samples of the material that were dropped. I think it's usually a mixture of iron and silicon. The silicon is probably in their lower the melting point. and there's a strong magnetic field between the top and bottom of the craft.

That's why the, that's why equipment like car electrical systems goes out when a UFO is near because of the very strong magnetic field. And they also use a method called the bifield brown effect to generate lift where you rapidly charge a capacitor and there's a thrust in the direction of the positive pole and a lot of these things the entire craft is a capacitor between the top and bottom the top and bottom

of the craft are like plates of a capacitor. So they told you they used the byfield brown effect, these aliens? Yeah. That's really interesting. And according to Bob Lazar, I don't remember I'm telling me this, but according to Bob Lazar, they also use element 115 sometimes to amplify the gravitational effect.

Yeah. Yeah, that's amazing. I'm obsessed with Townsend Brown. So that gets me excited the fact that there's some, you know, corroboration from an experiencer that, you know, maybe that is how the craft actually works. Many institutions and people have tried to either downplay or falsify Brown's experiments. For example, in 1990, the Air Force tested a Bifield Brown experiment in a vacuum. But they only used 19 kilovolts instead of the megavoltage Brown was used.

But in 1956, Jacques Corneone, a French Air Force officer and technical representative for one of France's largest aircraft companies, sued West, facilitated Brown's experiments in a vacuum in the Montgolfeier facility in Paris. The tests were very, very, very tricky. It was sensitive to so many things in vacuum. finally twillers so that's positive did they say anything else

so they're giving you all this insight into the into the physics they talked about time travel quite a bit in the physics of that

what did they say they said that they have time travel they don't like to use it very much because and especially don't like to do long jumps

because you could if you travel back in time too far you could get on a different timeline and it would be difficult to get back to your own that's the main reason.

There's the many world's interpretation of quantum mechanics is generally correct, except that minor decisions, I'm not sure how the universe decides what's a minor decision and what's a major one, but minor decisions in quantum mechanics where something happens on a subatomic scale,

most of those just collapse on themselves and not become a separate, timeline, but some do. So this is this idea that the wave function doesn't actually collapse. It's sort of infinitely branches. But you're saying that in certain cases... That's a combination. Most of them collapse, but some of them continue on and become a different timeline.

Makes rough sense. That's interesting. Yeah. And the ones that do continue on are as real as this one. And if you go back too far and then try to go forward again, there's a chance you might end up on one of those branch points. when it crossed one of the branch points and end up on a different timeline. Did they connect the quote unquote anti-gravity

with the time travel? Because Byfield Brown effect and Townsend Brown himself was very interested in time travel because of their relationship between gravity and time and general relativity. Well, the way they move faster than light is that they use the anti-gravity drive

to open up a wormhole. And I'm not sure how they choose where the other opening of the wormhole is, but they can do that somehow and then they'll go through it and go a few million kilometers before the wormhole collapses, because wormholes are unstable. And they can do the same thing with time.

They just open up a wormhole in a different time where the opening isn't in a different time that they want to visit. And the other reason they don't like to use time travel too much is because it's difficult to judge exactly when you're going to come out to the second like they like to do. Yeah. Well, that seems to be the case. And you have like Travis Walton dropped off near,

where he was picked up, but not, it's usually not, like, very precise. And there's, like, sort of missing time involved. Yeah. Yeah. And in Travis Walton's case, Dr. Lair thinks he or thought he was dead, and they brought him back to life. Whoa. Why does Roger Lear think that?

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UFO crash retrieval programs, freedom of information. Act databases and reaching out to sources who need discretion. That's not stuff anyone wants sitting on some data broker's server. In my opinion, one of the best ways to lock everything down is with ExpressVPN. One click and your connection is encrypted. Your IP is masked. It's not just a VPN anymore. You now get a password manager, email aliases that hide your real inbox, and full identity protection with dark web monitoring and up to a million dollars in theft. insurance. That's right, up to a million dollars in theft insurance, all included for the same price. Find out how you can get up to four extra months by clicking the link in the description below.

ExpressVPN.com slash American Alchemy. Don't put it off. Travis was thrown like 20 feet by either a weapon or getting a shock from the electric field around the craft, and he wasn't moving when he was flying through the air or when he landed on the ground and all the people in his logging crew thought he was dead. That is definitely true. Did any of these beings tell you why they were doing what they were doing to you? Did they give you any sort of sense as to why they would implant your toe of all places?

It was a medical monitoring device is my understanding to or monitor things like blood sugar and body temperature and things like that. Why, why you? Is it just like this thing that they, it's like if we go to the zoo, we tag the animals sort of thing? Or what do you, what do you think? It's kind of like that, except that, um, it's, they do this to only bloodlines that they're interested in.

And, um, they have an M.O. Or they, um, they, um, genetically, they abduct, uh, pregnant women from bloodlines are interested in and genetically modify the fetus. What determines which blood lines? they might be interested in. I'm not sure. That would be a closely guarded secret on their side, but mainly they're interested in

Germanic, Celtic, and Native American people. There are exceptions, but they're looking for some sort of genetic combination that those particular races have in more abundance. Fascinating. Okay, so you have this, anything else, by the way. I feel like with experiences, I'm always like, damn,

I should have asked that one more thing about like what the being said. Was there anything else you can recall? About them telling me? Yeah, anything they told you. Well, the part about them being an alliance of seven different races coming from planets within the hundred light years of year. I remember that pretty distinct.

Oh, and they also told me that the Earth is a very important planet to a lot of races and that planets that have some life are pretty common, but planets that are teeming with life like this are not common at all. He said there's only four or five like it in the galaxy. And so they want to preserve life on the planet and they are worried we're going to screw it up. Yeah, that seems to be a common theme among experiencers as far as what gets relayed. Oh, and they told me that there's There's pyramids all over the galaxy. They're evidently power sources and sources of healing rather than tombs.

You know, it's funny you say this. I feel like 20 years ago in conventional archaeological circles, they would have said that that's totally quacky. And now you have people like Christopher Dunn, who's, you know, I don't know if you're familiar with this guy. He's like a former aerospace guy. He's coming out saying, you know, that it looks like the pyramid is some sort of power plant. And now we actually have synthetic aperture radar scans underneath the pyramids where it looks like there might be these sort of coiling columns, these hollow tubes that go down possibly a kilometer deep.

So you have increasing speculation. We know that there have never been any teams found in these structures. And we were just talking earlier that below Dandera, you actually have hieroglyphics that translate to Stargate. The Egyptians talk about Stargates. Do they? Do you? Go to where is it? that Dendera, there's actually a couple places.

The literal translation, you can read it on the walls. I always show people when we go there. It is, there are two or three depictions of Stargates. That is the literal translation for it. We know there are actually little chambers where a human could probably lie in, and, you know, some of these, I think in the Great Pyramid. Yeah, that sarcophagus they called it in the Queens chamber. It's probably a healing device.

Yeah. I have a theory where gravity is not a pulling force, but a pushing force. It's if you're accelerating through space, you experience inertia. If space is accelerating towards you, you experience gravity. And zero point energy is turned into real energy in the cores of planets and stars, and that creates a partial vacuum in the ether that causes the ether to accelerate towards that gravitating body. And that creates gravity. So you, I mean, this is, there's so many different threads I want to, yeah.

It's like the, you know, the movie Stargate, literally with Kurt Russell, you know, the Air Force actually consulted on that. And it's like it's this portal or something. And it would explain the astronomical alignment, the idea that all the ancient civilizations thought that the soul's actually, the soul moved through Orion's belt, which it seems, you know, aligned with. But there are some interesting questions. I feel like I have to press on that arise from what you just said. The ether, you know, they say was disproved in the 1890s with the Michelson-Morley experiment. It wasn't disproved. Even Einstein said in this later lectures that there could be an ether, although it would have to be multidimensional and have strange properties.

Well, that's the case. I mean, the ether, I believe they told me this too, but other people have come up with this theory that the ether is composed of, tiny particles that are on the order of the plonk mass and the plonk dimensions. They're like 10 to the 20th times smaller than an atomic nucleus, and they have a magnetic and electric dipole moment and interact with each other much more strongly than they interact with ordinary matter. And matter going through it without accelerating does not experience a force because it acts like it's super fluid.

But when it's accelerating, there's an electromagnetic. drag force that they call the people that people that believe in this theory called the Rindler flux which causes inertia and you can actually derive Newton's second law by assuming a spatial structure of that nature interesting yeah whoa who's like developed this theory I several several physicists I don't recall their names I found but I can look it up for you. Yeah, yeah, I'd love to. Yeah, no, you're right that later Einstein said general relativity is not actually incompatible with the ether.

Right. So that is an important. And then I would also say about the Michelson-Morley experiment, you know, the absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence. Yeah. And so we just don't know, you know. But I do think, yeah, that's this kind of hotly debated, contested thing. So it's a very interesting theory. Yeah, the Michael-Mawley experiment, the ether is probably being dragged by the instrument itself.

that might account for the results of no observable ether movement. But there was another guy named Milliken, I believe his name was, that actually did come up with some positive results for motion through the ether. That's interesting. I didn't know that about Robert. Robert Milliken was at Caltech, and Townsend Brown actually studied under him. And then they kind of got into it because Milliken didn't really believe in Brown stuff.

Ironically, Brown believed what you said, which is that gravity is more of a push than a pull. And so you're saying, because Miliken did a lot of the experimental proving of Einstein's photoelectric effect from 1905. Yeah. But I didn't know that he had something to do with the ether and detecting the ether. That's fascinating. Yeah, yeah. He said he detected it, and he was a pretty high-powered physicist. Really?

Yeah. Oh, wow. He didn't detect it directly, but he detected Earth's motion through the ether by an experiment on, Mount Wilson, I believe it was. Wow, fascinating. Well, I'll have to look into that. You know, it's interesting. We take so many things for granted that we've never detected, like dark matter. But the ether's like completely like we're not allowed to talk about. It's like a dirty word or something. Yeah, I don't think I believe in dark matter. After 50 years of experimentation, there's no evidence for it at all. And you don't,

you don't really even need dark matter to explain the results. The reason they postulated dark matter in the first place is because of the motion of the galaxies, they behave as though there's either gravity is acting as an inverse linear force at those distances or there's a halo of massive matter above and below the galaxy. Well, the postulating that gravity is an inverse linear force at those distances is actually a simpler explanation than postulating some unknown form of matter. Yeah, I think you're right. I would bet against dark matter and dark energy.

Dark energy is not one of the four fundamental forces. It's this sort of, you know, just... I think dark energy is a zero point energy. That's what's causing the universe to expand more rapidly rather than it's supposed to be slowing down, according to Einstein. But dark energy, aka zero point energy, is causing the expansion to accelerate.

It's fascinating. Quantum vacuum fluctuations. Right. Yeah, I mean, okay. Well, we could have a whole other... discussion on physics. I want to stick with this. So you experienced this kind of profound thing. You end up with this, you know, implant in your toe. So you don't know what's happened at that point because you haven't gotten a hypnotic regression is that point? Yeah, I didn't know. I didn't remember

what happened. I just, I woke up and I knew that I had had an implant in my toe. The aliens had been there in the middle of the night. And I had one more on the side of my head, too. Really? My head kind of hurt right there. Whoa. And that shows up on a stud finder. Okay, wow. And then you get in touch with Roger Lear?

Yeah. And you email him? I just went to his office. Okay. You just showed up. I just made an appointment and went over there and told him I had a possible for an object in my toe. And in the middle of the appointment, I told him that it was a possible. alien implant or an abduction related.

Excuse me. I don't think he believed me at first, but he gave me a prescription to get an x-rayed. And he said to give a copy of the film to the patient, and I definitely saw something on the x-ray, and that was wild. That is extremely wild. What did it look like?

Well, I could tell people, too, that there's a heck of a difference between strongly suspecting And it's something like this is going on with you, which I had for years and knowing for sure. And proof like that, you know, for sure. Yeah. But it looked like a bent piece of wire on the x-ray. And it was larger in real life. And we took it out.

Then it looked on the x-ray. Wild. Okay. So you see this x-ray and then do you have a hypnotic regression? And you remember the full experience with these alien beings? Yeah, pretty much, yeah. And is Roger Lear at that point kind of bought into the extraterrestrial or other entity, non-human hypothesis?

Oh, yeah, yeah, he was excited. He wanted to come over and check out my house. And we found all kinds of anomalies, anomalous magnetic fields, leaves, and the trunk of the avocado tree had become magnetized. And in the kitchen, stainless steel knives had become magnetized and the wood of the cabinets and all kinds of stuff, wood seems to be very susceptible to magnetization by alien equipment. Interesting. I think it's normally it wouldn't be. Right.

It's either a magnetic monopole or magnetic fields beyond a certain strength leave a residue. Magnetic monopoles make a certain amount of sense. It would be an ether that had a magnetic charge to it that would be absorbed into the material, and it seems to decay away over a period of several weeks. And how many implants did Roger Lear remove? He removed a total of, I believe, 17 from 17 different people. Wow. And how many have you removed?

I don't have a license to operate on. Okay. But you sort of look into this stuff for yourself. I attended the last three removal surgeries, including my own. Okay. Yeah. And how many have you seen, like firsthand? I've seen probably six or seven.

Wow. And does any part of you or does any part of, you know, from your conversations with Roger Lear think that this could have been human tech? No. Most of them did not look like human tech at all to us. And there was reason to believe that the materials came from, not only from space, but from other part of our galaxy. But we did find, or he did find one or two that looked like human tech, that looked like just standard micro-examined. chips. Whoa. And so, so such of crazy territory to kind of operate in or think about. So you think there are maybe a couple that represent, I mean, what would those microchips have come from?

Well, the government's experimenting with implants too, but they're much less sophisticated than the ones the aliens use. Right. And they're much bigger. Yeah. And that would make sense. I mean, I mean, yeah, the government has had like sort of mind control programs. Oh, yeah. You know, M.K. Ultris sort of stuff. And they probably have used chips. And so, yeah. But these things are, they have, so they have isotope ratios that don't normally occur on Earth that would cost millions of dollars to create an centrifuge. Right. Any other sort of abnormalities or anomalies? Well, I noticed that in three of the implants that have the isotopic abnormalities, the, the heavier isotopes in those elements were overrepresented. I talked to people who really did analyze the stuff from

real deal stuff and it's super weird it's like heavy element um you know europeum californium stuff it's like in these atomic arrangements that make like no sense you know this is through x-ray diffraction where they can image the shadows of the atomic pairs and stuff and it's like why is all these crazy heavy elements in this like weird ceramic metal hull structure and it doesn't we don't understand the emergent umer a metamaterial property. So it was either, either they come from closer to the center of the galaxy

where there's a heavier supernova, all these heavy elements are created in supernova explosions where there's a massive cascade of neutrons in one part of the explosion. And rapid neutron capture creates these elements heavier than iron. And so it's either that or the elements had been exposed to a massive quantity of neutrons. Either way, it's very strange and most likely way beyond human technology.

Yeah, and a lot of neutrons would be outside the Van Allen radiation belt or something. Yeah, or a lot of... Or in a reactor or a zero point energy generator. Also, the no immune reaction. It's like you think of Elon Musk as the tip of the spear with technology, and, you know, he had all these issues with the, you know, electrode implants in people's brains where there were, be immune reactions. Even to this day, I believe Nolan Arbaugh, the first patient, I think might need

some, like, tweaking after, like, the first thing worked because of this sort of immune reaction issue. Oh, yeah. Dr. Lear told me that any foreign object in the body produces an immune reaction. Silicon produces the least immune reaction of all substances known, but even that produces a fair amount as a lot of women that got silicone breast implants who testify. But these produce none whatsoever. It's just very beyond strange. Do you notice commonalities in behavioral patterns changing from some of these patients? I think there are some changes, but they're hard to notice.

I know that when I had my toe implant, it was like, Very subtle, but it was like there was some sort of a governor put in my thoughts, and I felt more free once it was removed. But it was very subtle. Whoa. And people were telling me that I didn't look well, and I had a gray complexion or something when I had the implant. Really? Yeah. So it affected you in sort of a negative way?

Apparently, yeah. Why do you think, ah, it's so strange. Ideally, you know, the alien tech or whatever would, you know, be so, so, you know, if it's not, not creating an immune reaction, it wouldn't, you know, suppress your thoughts in any sort of negative way. Well, maybe, maybe what they told me about it being a monitoring device was just a cover story. Maybe they were trying to produce some changes or something. Hmm. It's fascinating.

But they, um, they definitely were hesitant to put it in because they knew it had started an investigation. And, uh, I suspected that I was an experiencer for a year that had missing time experiences and had no other way to account for them. them, it's kind of easier to be, easy to be in denial if you don't have any real concrete proof. So wild conversation for me, because you seem like a very smart guy. And then a lot of these things are just so, so out there. Do, did, um, I mean, I, I wouldn't even entertain. I'm a scientist.

I wouldn't even entertain a lot of this stuff. I didn't have proof. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, it's, uh, you're, you're backing up all your claims. So it's, it's really amazing. Um, Dr. Roger Lear, did you find him to be, you know, fully kind of bought. into the kind of non-human

hypothesis as the origin for... He was fully bought into the extraterrestrial hypothesis. And he said it was 17 or 18 implants that he removed to... 17, I believe, yeah. 17. And he had no background in this.

He was just a podiatrist and... Yeah, he thought it was ridiculous at first, too, but... Did he stumble upon a per... Like, there was one of his patients or something, and he pulled it out? He went to a, he went to a, convention, I think the UFO Congress. And he met Darrell Sims there, who was the original guy on the implants.

And he tried to convince Dr. Lear that it was worth looking into. And Dr. Lear said, ah, you're full of it and everything. And another friend of Dr. Lear convinced him to go take another look. And he went it back and told Sims that, you know, if you can get some patients out here that have these things, I'll x-ray them and take the object out. if it's there and we'll find out what it is. Did Lear ever try to write an academic paper on any of this stuff? Yeah, he and I tried to write a paper and we tried to publish it in the journal of scientific

exploration and they first they said they were excited to have it. Then I think somebody got to them and they said that it was ridiculous. They didn't want to publish it and we weren't even saying it was alien. We just said it was an unknown object recovered from somebody's leg. and they they really give us a hard time about it. And I'm pretty sure that somebody told him not to publish it. That's so crazy. It's like, yeah, because it's funny, you can go on chat GPT and they say,

Roger Lear has no academically, you know, peer-reviewed papers or whatever. It's like you tried. Yeah, we did try. And it's funny. I think you always have to sanitize the results and just say, no, we found something anomalous. Like we don't, we don't, we're not even jumping to conclusions, but even then sometimes there's this sort of antibody rejection of a lot of these findings. There's a friend of mine, Beatrice Villarreal. She's an astronomer from Stockholm University. And she's a PhD out there. And she, uh, basically from the, the Palomar Observatory, which was, you know, one of the most prominent, you know, observatories in use in the in the 40s and 50s. Uh, she noticed all sorts of, uh, uh, these what look like essentially UFO-like objects, these light-reflecting objects that look like kind of mirrors in orbit.

In orbit. Yeah, yeah. And geo. Yeah, they recruited Clyde Tombaugh, the discoverer of Pluto, to investigate those, too. That's fascinating. So there's a history of looking into these geosynchronous objects that seem to exist in the tens of thousands. And he wrote, he wrote an article, Tombaugh wrote an article. saying that Earth had some smaller moons orbiting at about 500 miles up.

And I know from my own experiences that gray mother ships orbited about that altitude, and they launched the smaller UFOs that actually go out and sort to abduct people and such. So fascinating, because the other thing is, you know, I go back to forth on the moon landing stuff where if I'm debating with the skeptic on the moon landing, it's like I'm extremely, open to us having actually landed on the moon. But something's off about the whole story. Something is off. Well, they're concealing a lot. There's a lot up there. They don't want people to see. So it's like maybe they saw something along the way, you know? And interesting that you should mention the moon stuff. I found out that Apollo 13 may not have failed by a mechanical problem.

It may have been zapped by the aliens because they may have had a nuclear warhead on board. What? Yeah. How did you find that out? Well, I can't prove it, but it was the next logical step in their seismic program where Apollo 11 put a seismic graph on the moon and so did Apollo 12. And it rang like a bell. On Apollo 12, they crashed the ascend stage of the lunar module into the moon and it rang like a bell for hours. Then on Apollo 13, when they were approaching the moon, they crashed the third stage of the Saturn 5 into the moon and made a bigger bang and it rang like a bell. bill for even longer. And so if Apollo 13 it landed on the moon, they would have had three

seismic graphs and would be able to probably map the interior of the moon a little bit with the seismic waves that would be generated by another event. And the next logical step would have been to put a remote detonated small nuclear device on the moon and detonated after the astronauts leave. Jesus. So, but you're just hypothesizing that. You have no evidence. I have no real evidence, but one thing that made me really suspicious that this might be true is that I remember when I was a kid following this mission. And when the lunar module was coming back to Earth, the atomic energy commission would just go ape over this. And they wanted the lunar module put on a trajectory that would put it into a deep ocean trench. And their level of concern was, they said it was because it had a radioized, thermoelectric,

generator on board, but their level of concern was a lot more consistent with it being a warhead. Whoa. That's fascinating. So they were that freaked out. Yeah. Even though it might endanger the astronauts' lives to do that, they wanted that thing crashed into a deep ocean trench. They've had RTGs on spacecraft before that have reentered that they weren't that

concerned about. It's really interesting. Yeah. It's funny. You know, there's actually an Air Force project that's documented called Project A119. And it was literally to nuke the moon as a show of force against the Soviets. And Carl Sagan actually had a temporary clearance to look into doing this. So we know that in the late 50s, obviously before the Saturn and Apollo projects, that this was being considered.

So who knows? I mean, you might be right, man. That's really interesting. Well, I know that if there were no aliens on the moon or anything else, I have to worry about. I think the gray is own the moon, by the way. and they told us not to come back without permission anyway. And that's... You think they said don't come back without permission?

Well, Armstrong was overheard at a party saying that. Really? Yeah. What party? Some party in Washington, D.C., with big whigs, and several people said that he said that. And he said that the grays said... That's hearsay, but... The Grays said, don't come back until we give you permission.

Something that effect. Any other details there? Well, well, some people at now some whistleblowers at nassah said that um that he was on a private channel after landing on the moon um and um said that uh that uh spacecraft landed on the moon right after they did a few mile a couple miles away and we're watching him and um um it was probably the same one that they said they saw following him um uh the whole uh paul 11 crew um said a few years ago on on television that uh that there was some object following into the moon

that they thought it was the third stage of their of their booster at first, but NASA confirmed that the booster was like 700 miles away. And this object was maybe only about five or ten miles from them. Jesus Christ. And you have, you definitely have documented audio from the Gemini missions

of them freeing. And then there's a literally like, they're freaking out about UFOs. There's an outage, you know, showing some sort of electromagnetic anomaly present. And then Then I have this book, actually, the Simkinson textbook that shout out to my buddy Chris Ramsey from the great show Area 52. He made me aware of this book where this UFO is like airbrushed into the photo for the Gemini 11 mission, where it's this like kind of tongue-in-cheek joke. If you're, you know, is this official NASA archivist airbrushed this UFO, which looks like the best UFO photo ever?

Well, the astronauts used to admit to it a long ago before the security was that tight. and I think they were seeing these things almost every mission in the early days. So wild. How many people do you think are walking around with alien implants inside of them? Well, the people that they implant, they've abducted about 3% of the American population. According to Dr. Lear, I think that's about right. It's probably between 3% and 5%. It takes samples.

What is he basing that off of? Is this like sort of census-style-like? Yeah, his own research and extrapolation. Okay. And based on what I have seen, most what I call class two experiencers that are actually at the next level, part of the alien program have implants, but the first class where they just take samples from do not generally.

And about, I would say, very roughly, about one in a thousand people or class two experiences. in this country, and it might be similar worldwide, I'm not sure. So if that's the case, then say there's 350 million people in the, in the U.S., that would be about 350,000 people. It's a lot of people walking around with implants. Yeah, that's right. Yeah, it's like 10 to 15 million for experiencers overall, and then class two experiencers

who get the implants around a few hundred thousand. And it's a standard procedure for them to put a brain implant into class two experiencer that enables them to access your sensory information to see what you're seeing and hear what you're hearing and probably hear what you're thinking in real time. So you're like an almost an avatar or something. Like they're this perceptual like drone for them or something. It turns you in a walking bug and it connects you to the gray high of mine. They told me that too. And all all individuals in their society are connected to a hive mind, kind of like the Borg on Star Trek, but they have a little bit more individuality than that. And every experience they have is recorded. And they, um, they, um, so if,

if all these people are implanted, then they presumably only put, um, the brain implants into people that they can get some good information from. So being that that's the case, they probably know everything that's going on in the society. We have Eric Mitchell here who we did an amazing show with yesterday, and he's what you might call kind of a super experiencer. You guys are friends. You've found a few different implants in Eric. Is that right?

I don't remember what the results were offhand. My records got stolen recently, but I'd like to do the exam again. But yeah, I saw some indications of implants and Eric, and we found some dyes on them recently, the alien dyes. We haven't talked about that yet. So before we get to the dyes, the implants, what are we calling indicators of implants? Well, I have a protocol that is mostly Dr. Ler's protocol that he turned me on to. And you first inspect the patient with a stud finder, a small metal detector that detects conductive

objects into the skin and concentrate on any areas of concern first. or they think they might have an implant from anything they remember or any symptoms they might have had. And if you record the areas where you get stud finder hits, then go over the person with a gauze meter, a sensitive magnetometer. And if you get an area that has a stud finder and a gauce meter hit, that's almost certainly an implant. These implants almost always have magnetic fields. So have you had a stud finder and magnetometer, you know,

the scouse finder, hit for Eric? I think we had two, so I recall. Eric, do you remember where exactly they detected one of these implants? Back to my neck, my arm and Dr. Lear, he thought maybe the wife might be one in my knee. it was like a weak signal. So he sent me a hundred pound Neo-Demian magnet, which I should have been very careful opening that box a little more carefulness. It was like a cartoon.

It was probably dangerous. Yeah, it was dangerous. But he wanted me to hold it to my name, maybe 10 minutes a day, you know, watching TV or something like that, put it back in the bubble wrap, make sure it's safe, and then pull it back out the next night and keep doing that. And he didn't think that it would pull it to the surface. He theorized that it would create like an eddy bubble, an eddy effect to kind of loosen it from the tissue and bring it to the surface, which actually worked.

And so do you have any like incisions or marks or like, you know, any sort of raised skin where either of these implants are? No. Okay. Have you removed anything? No. Okay. No. Two weeks before I was supposed to meet with Dr. Roger there.

in Eureka Springs, Arkansas, he unfortunately passed away. Yeah, the portals of entry with these implants heal incredibly fast. Mine healed within ours. So, whoa. You, yeah, you're not going to find anything like that. How many implants do you have, like, photo evidence of? Six or seven, I think. Could you send some of those over?

It would be cool to show them to the audience in post-production. Sure, yeah. Sweet, thank you. And, yeah. So what are you working on now? What is, what is, is it, is it neutron nanostartec? Yeah, I have a company called Neutron Star Technologies and neutron star nanotechnologies is a, I get a spin-off of that. And I've been just trying to get that funded and, um, utilize.

some of the carbon nanotube knowledge I have to maybe produce some products and I've been doing scans on experiencers. Cool. And I've done probably 400 scans on people. So of those 400 scans, how many produce a hit?

Well, it's a pre-selected audience, so probably about half. About half, wild. Yeah. Interesting. And at this point, are you sort of, you're known as like, you know, Roger Lear's, you know, living apprentice, and so people hit you up.

Yeah. Sometimes, yeah. Okay. So fascinating. What, what, how old were you when you had your experience? I remember having experience at age five where, I think that's when they put the brain implant in, where I remember, um, waking up, uh, before dawn and seeing a, a bright yellow, um, lit up UFO, um, dis-shaped UFO hovering over.

my parents' house and then I watched it for a couple of minutes and blacked out, then I woke up about 8 o'clock of the morning and the sun was up and I had blood all down the front of me and had a vague memory of somebody putting something up my nose. Jesus. And this was, so this is age five. This is well before the toe experience. Yeah. And where are you living at the time? Oxnard, California. Okay. What did your parents do? Um, not much. They just, uh, so he had a nose bleed and I was. Wow. I mean, what did they do professionally? My dad was a dentist, um, and, uh, was, uh, a colonel in the Army Reserve.

And, uh, my, my mother was, uh, his assistant at one point, uh, and a bookkeeper at one point and was a housewife the rest of the time. And they, did they freak out when they saw you with blood running down? What was their reaction? Not really. I mean, um, My parents were not the type that freaked out about that sort of thing. Interesting. That might be because of alien conditioning. Did they have their own experiences?

My father admitted much later that he'd had dreams of being on board a UFO, and he said he saw a UFO one time over Central California. wild a cylindrical UFO with a red light on the front he said as a as a colonel in the reserves did he have any sort of affiliation with any possible reverse engineering programs or like deeper spookier i don't i don't think so but i think there's a lot he he was reluctant to tell me and he said he did call um the military uh the nearest military airfield to where he have the siding and reported it. Yeah. It's fascinating. And so, okay, so wow. So you're five years old, you see this bright object. Do you remember vividly being on that craft? No, you don't. Okay. So you just

I think they came down into my room to put it in that time. And you have, and you, where is the implant? It's, it's, it's, it's, it's in the brain. It's in the brain. It's in the brain. It's in the brain. It's in the brain. And do you still have it there? I'm for sure I do. Wild. And I've got One above each year, apparently. I wasn't sure about those. I saw them on x-ray, barely, but they're really, really small. Wow. And, but they started giving off radio signals during a Japanese TV show I was filming.

Oh, my God. What were you doing? I know they're there now. What were you doing on Japanese TV? They wanted to interview somebody with implants. Wow. And you're five years old and you have blood all over and gee, that's traumatic, man. That's like a tough, crazy thing to go through.

Well, this experience is pretty traumatic for a lot of people. Yeah. It's like there's certain advantages to it. You get to fly in space. I mean, a lot of these abductions take place on great mother ships in orbit. Yeah. And I remember seeing the Earth from space being up there. But you just have to take the bad with the good.

I mean, I hate to tell people. this, but these people are way too powerful to fight. Yeah. And they're experts at mind control. They can make you do anything you want, anything they want you to do willingly. Of the, I don't even know how to answer, to talk about that.

In the 200 out of the 400 that you personally found implants in, do these people have usually UFO experiences associated with the implants or in certain cases are, is it like people coming into their room sort of thing? They usually remember seeing UFOs and or remember being on board UFOs, but it's both. I mean, sometimes they come into your room and do whatever they need to do. And other times they come and get you and take you up to orbit and if they want to do

anything special or whatever. Do you think at any point in time some of the mind can, control stuff we discussed earlier was like aliens were used as sort of some sort of smoke screen for that like it was like there's a book called controllers by a guy named Martin Cannon and he talks about mk ultra but then the air mk often and how there are implants involved in some of these things and how they would shade people's experiences to make them think that they were alien and to be honest it's kind of a slim poorly researched book that doesn't for me explain everything neatly at all. But yeah, what's your, what's your take? I think that that may

occur. I think that MK. Ultra might, might do that sometimes, but I think that the vast majority of the experiences people have are more or less what happened and really are aliens. I have no doubt in my mind that the aliens are here and they exist and there's more than one species involved. Yeah, I mean, there's so many cases that I also encounter where I'm like, you can't just can't explain that with, you know, human prosaic tech. I do find it interesting. You were at, you were at UCLA in the 80s. You know who was head of the UCLA psychiatry department at that time. Are you aware of? I probably was, but this guy named Jolly West. Did you ever interact with him at all? No, no. He was like a head honcho in the MK Ultras. Yeah, I'm not surprised.

I did used to work at the UCLA Neuropsychiatric Institute. I was a researcher for about five years. Okay, okay. He probably had authority over that branch of it. He might have, yeah, I don't know, but definitely a spooky, not great guy. I think he got in trouble for, like, dosing up an elephant with a ridiculous amount of LSD, and then the elephant died. And he's on record, there are letters between him and Sidney Gottlieb. There's a great book called Chaos by a guy named Tom O'Neill. He's become a friend of mine.

And he basically has this hypothesis that Charles Manson was this M.K.L. patient and it's a really crazy he may have been i think i think that um that that that guy that um shot uh um um um john lennon was uh yeah m k ultra guy and i think i think syrihan syrian that shot robert kennedy was too i think so as well yeah yeah so that's this it's a weird threat but so there's that stuff and then the do you think what do you think these the the implants are doing when it comes to the alien. You think it's just tagging, it's biometrics, and then maybe there's some mind control stuff going on, but it's perceptual hacking.

I don't know. I don't know all the details of what they do. They keep that, the aliens keep that mostly secret, but I think some of them are medical monitoring devices, some of them are tracking devices, and some are the brain implants actually enable them to hear and see what you're hearing and ceiling. seeing in real time. Does any of the structure that you've investigated kind of allow you to see what the functionality might be?

Like, because you're looking into, you know, nanotechnology. So presumably this would use nanotechnology. They do, yeah. They're sophisticated nanotechnological devices. Most of them have carbon nanotub electronics built into the metal, and that's beyond our technology. And there's strange structure. I can show you some of the electron micrographs.

Please. And there's very strange structures that would be beyond our technology to form right now. I'm not sure what they do, but I suspect that it has something to do with emitting the radio signals. Of a lot of these people you encounter, is it usually grays? Is it sometimes Nordics or reptilians or some of these other sort of archetypes? I remember seeing mostly different types of grays. On board the craft, the real short worker type grays and the ones about four and a half feet tall that I call the scientist engineer types. And I have a handler that's one of those.

And I think most class two experiences have a handler. What do you when you say handler? What does that mean? A contact person that is in charge of your case on board ship. Whoa. So a being? Yeah, being, yeah. And how do you, like, are you still telepathically in touch with that Handler or something?

I have reason to believe I am. I think he's here in this whole conversation right now. Whoa. What's up, Handler? And they record everything that is experienced by every member of their society, and that includes Class 2 experiencers. When you get the brain implant, it connects you to the great high mind, like I said. This is wild. Does any part of you think, that humans discovered, you know, there's this, I think in the early 2000s, there was this concern of the like runaway gray goo nanotech, you know, scenarios. And nanotech was all the rage in the early 2000s. And then it's sort of like went away. And does any part of you think that

humans can do any of this stuff, like in deep black contexts? I think that nanotechnology is not that dangerous as long as you don't design some, uh, some micro probe that, self-replicating. Right. Yeah, that was the gray goose scenario. Even if you did, I'm not sure it would be all that dangerous, but I think what is dangerous is AI. If they ever do develop true self-aware AI, I think that would be extraordinarily dangerous.

Yeah, seems like. The aliens don't believe in it, so I think that's why. Yeah. They believe in computers, but they're controlled by minds. Do you think there are good and bad factions of aliens, or do you think they're are all good or all bad or? No, I think there's good and bad fashions. The beings that implanted you think good or bad?

They're mainly out for themselves, but they're not all, they're not scum-sucking evil either. I mean, they want humanity to mature into a peaceful, more peaceful species and become members of the Galactic Federation or whatever we want to call it. But they're mostly here to mine the Earth and the Moon and collect biological samples. I mean, that seems reasonable and not bad. What do you think of modern?

But they don't care about the suffering they inflict on people. That's one bad thing about them. Everything is for the group with them. They're a collective mind. They don't care about individuals. They just care about what's best for the group. Why do you think they care so much about nuclear? They seem to show up.

Some of my favorite interviews have been, these guys that are often in their 70s and 80s at this point, they've worked at nuclear bases all over the U.S. And in certain cases, they board crafts, they have implants, you know, they're close encounters of the third kind. And I guess what you're calling kind of type two, you know, abductions or something. Yeah. Yeah, I think a lot of top military people are implanted and to keep the aliens keep tabs on them. But I think they don't want us having nukes because, A, it makes us too powerful. B, it has a great potential to screw up the planet,

screw up a lot of their plans for this place, and C, it can damage the planet's life force. I reasonably, there's structures in the ether that contribute to life on this planet somehow, and a nuclear blast could disrupt that, at least in the general area where it was detonated. And they said also that it screws up their communications and leads to problems in other dimensions

that they didn't want to go into. Yeah. No, that is interesting about, like, they seem to show up at nuclear disaster. Like, there's literally this monk at this Shinto temple in Fukushima. And when they had their 2011 famous nuclear spill due to the earthquake, he was like the UFO showed up and cleaned up the temple. They were trying to alleviate the radiation.

Exactly. Yeah. There's a There's a Harvard PhD named Jensine and Dresen who writes about, basically a similar experience in Chernobyl, and they measured this nuclear tower before and after. And so I think it goes beyond just them not wanting us to blow ourselves up. There's something about the ambient electromagnetic radiation

of just the earth that is this perfect kind of petri dish, you know, biosphere. Yeah, that makes sense. There's maybe the Earth is actually admitting some of this, but there's structures in the ether that are life-giving and that might even resurrect some extinct species at some point in the time. And nuclear blast could disrupt that, and radiation in general can disrupt that.

And also, the government's known for years. The aliens definitely have this technology, and the government's known for years that you can actually affect the decay rate of radioisotone. by certain scalar electromagnetic waves. Scalar waves are a special form of electromagnetic radiation that is a different structure. It's a more fundamental form of electromagnetic radiation

than the transverse waves they talk about in the textbooks. And it interacts with the nuclei rather than the electrons in atoms like transverse waves do. Explain what a scalar wave is because scalar physics and scalar waves are often thrown around in these scales. super hand wavy ways. And yet they're often used as terms, you know, extended electrodynamics, scalar waves by people who I really respect in kind of aerospace world. So what's your definition?

They're trying to keep it secret. But enough has got out to know the basics. A guy, Dr. Tom Bearden, talked about this a lot in those books if you've read any of those. Yeah. And anyway, a scalar wave, a transverse wave, EM wave is a wave that has, the E and the B fields perpendicular to each other, and it moves in a manner perpendicular to both. And the E and the B fields are in phase. In a scalar wave, the electric and magnetic fields are 90 degrees out of phase. And the magnetic field curves around like that, and the electric field radiates as if it's coming from a positive or negative charge point. and it's like a sound wave in the ether, basically.

And they can travel faster than light. They're not restricted to light speed. So I've heard similar things to that. And then the two places I always get frustrated is I'm like, have we ever measured a scalar wave? And usually the answer, like, have we? Do you think we have? I think they have lots of times.

How would we measure? Classified labs. But I have reason to believe that I haven't done the experience. yet. I'd love to get in the lab and do some, but some sort of quantum sensor. I have reason to believe that you can generate scalar waves with standard radio equipment, but a different type of antenna. You'd use a dome-shaped antenna,

capacitive antenna with, say, a plastic dome with metal on both sides, and you connect the electrodes of the oscillator to, each metal metal piece. Fascinating. Okay. And why do you think that that design would allow you to transmit scalar weight? Townsend Brown's work basically. Yeah. Yeah. Well, he had

an asymmetric capacitor where the negative electrode was larger than the positive electrode. But I think basically my sense is that the main thing is big electric field differentials. If you create big electric field differentials, then you can somehow harness the quantum vacuum fluctuation stuff. Yeah, high voltage does work better with that. I've reason to believe. I wish I could,

I wish I had some concrete proof for you, but just reading all this stuff that's available and thinking about it a lot, I've put this together. Yeah. But yeah, I think high voltages should work better for that. Yeah, it's very interesting. Yeah, I mean, high voltage is definitely correlate with high electric field strength, and then there are ways to amp up the electric field strength kind of artificially as well. But so fascinating. So what are you trying, how do we advance on this topic now? Is this, are we just in the Stone Age when we find these implants?

Are we just like, we think this works like XYZ, but we just have no idea what we're kind of looking at? Well, I think the next step is we have to do more research on the implants, excuse me, while they're still in the body, and try to measure exactly how much they're transmitting. and try to decode some of the signals. And after they're removed from the body, I think we need to try to connect the, there's carbon nanotube bundles that are like the main connections to the device.

We should try stimulating those with different voltages and see what happens under electron microscope or under microscopy in general. It wouldn't have to be an EM for that, I guess. Is there anybody else systematically looking into this besides you? No. And then the third thing I would do is use fast atom bombardment to shave off the devices layer by layer and map the distribution of elements in each layer and the distribution of carbon nanotubes. That would be fascinating. I mean, if you could do some atom by atom, you know, analysis, that would be also just groundbreaking.

because if these things are fabricated on the atomic layer, then that's not something that we can do. Yeah, they look like they're grown somehow. That's so wild. Like they're biological themselves or something. Or nanotechnological. They looked like they were grown by some sort of mechanical life, like the Transformers on the movies.

That's a hand-waving thing, I guess, but that's the best I can do right now. But putting a device like that so complex together by standard methods would be next to impossible, I think. And the only thing I wanted to say is that when I first got into this, I thought the aliens are probably only a few hundred years in advance of us technologically. But now I think that it might be more like a million years in advance of us. Why is that? Well, they show off once in a while and show experiencers exactly how far ahead of us they really are. One incident that really impressed me was that they zap my car with some kind of an energy weapon when I was going to Dr. Ler's office to film.

him testing the implant while it was still in the body. And the mechanic said later that the computer in the car was fried like it was exposed to EMP or something. And so I had to walk like, they did it when I was in this canyon, didn't get any cell phone reception. So I had to walk like two miles down the canyon to get cell phone reception and call him. And he and the film crew showed up and picked me up and brought me to the office. And when we got to the office, he goes, see, come here, you got to see this. And he'd pulled my x-ray out of a stack of x-rays. And it was in a stack with about 200 other x-rays.

And he showed it to me. And the lettering from the outside of the envelope that the x-ray was in had somehow been transferred to the developed x-ray film. What? Yeah. I'm not even sure in theory how he could do that. So that's like access to reality levels of manipulation or something. Something like that. That is bizarre.

Another time, my son and I were driving to our old vacation place in Bullhead City, Arizona, and we were on Highway 40 out in a remote area, and I saw this bright, white light hovering over this valley about five or ten miles away, and it was really bright. And I go, hey, look, Gary. There's a UFO. And he goes, what? I don't see anything.

And I'm like, how could you not see that? It's like his brightest Venus. And so I was tripping out on that and go well, you know, and then a few miles down the road, he started seeing ones that I couldn't see. It's like they can control who sees them and who doesn't. I don't know how they do that either. Yeah, not only signature management, but like unique signature management for the person perceiving. Yeah, I have some theories about how they might manage to cloak themselves in general by various methods, but...

What do you think it is? Selective seeing like that sounds a little hard to do. That seems really hard to do. Do you think it's like the access to our brains and they have access to the signature management stuff, do you think that we have reverse. engineering programs and crash retrievals. Oh, yeah, I think that's all true. Yeah. Do you have any, what's your like, you know, highest conviction, hardest evidence on that? Because you seem like an evidence-based person. Well, I analyzed some of the records from the San Augustine, New Mexico UFO crash, and analyzed a piece of an alien orb or sphere from that Jaime Masson got a hold of. And was this the

bugosphere? No, not the boogist sphere. The bugas had different, different design. But this one was about this big round, and it had large, vaporized from the looks of it, holes in the north and the south poles of the sphere. The edges of the holes had been damaged by tremendous heat. And Massan bought it from a farmer that farmed about it, a hundred miles south of the U.S. border near Brownsville, Texas on the east coast of Mexico.

And he said that when it crashed, it produced an explosion that killed a cow 100 meters away. Whoa. And if there was a strong magnetic field around the craft, which or the orb, which I have reasonably there was, then the collapse of the magnetic field is what released the energy that vaporized. the metal at the top and bottom. Why do you think this whole topic, it's like it attracts a few really smart people like yourself and then you have so much circumstantial evidence,

like an abundance of circumstantial evidence. And then somehow it's like the one smoking gun that we always want is slips through your fingers. And I'm talking about this as a person who's deeply my revealed preference is that I'm like deeply interested in this stuff. I think there's a there there. I'm not a skeptic. But it's like this like it's always like the hard drive goes missing at the end. The photo is a little too blurry for like the consensus to believe it. It's so frustrating. It depends what you consider a smoking gun. I think that these extremely skewed isotopic ratios might be considered a smoking gun.

and the fact that a lot of these pieces are nanotechnology devices beyond our technology. And like that sphere was made of a titanium alloy that had carbon nanotubes also built into the metal, which I think provided thrust by the bifield brown effect. It did. Yeah, and I think so. I mean, I don't know what else could have made it fly. Do you have this thing? Not anymore.

It got stolen. You got stolen? Yeah. Who stole it? My family, if you can believe that. Oh, man, I'm sorry. Yeah. That's horrible.

Yeah. Why, they took it? Yeah, I still do have some other alien stuff, but, um, but, um, yeah, I can't find it anymore. And I have a reason to believe it was in some stuff that they stole. Jesus Christ, man. I'm so sorry. That's messed up. It's not cool.

No. Do you have, is it, how does your family view, I mean, I, Yeah, your wife is here. She's absolutely lovely, and I can tell she's interested in this topic. Do you have other family, and what do they think of your interest in all this stuff? Well, my ex-wife is a Christian fundamentalist or says she is because of her family's convictions. And she's, I think, convinced my kids that I'm of the devil or something along those lines. Jesus.

I'm sorry, man. And my mother is kind of unstable and also is kind of turned my kids against me as well. She's afraid I'll embarrass her by going on on the air, putting stuff on the internet, things like that. Well, I'm sorry, man. I think your brain is a gift to humanity. And so we don't know where this object is that was taken from you? No, I don't know. Oh, damn, that's crazy.

And then what about the piece from St. August? crash in New Mexico. I still have, I still have some of that. That's fascinating. Yeah. And have you done, you've done isotopic analysis on that and that has isotope ratios that are weird? The isotopic ratios on, on that were not that remarkable. So that material may have may have, may have some manufacturing facilities on Earth, too. What material is it? Like, what element? It's mainly aluminum. Okay. The sphere was a titanium alloy that, with carbon nanotubes built into the metal and small, like, half-millimeter voids introduced into the metal to lower the density. So it had tremendous strength and was stronger than any titanium alloy I know of.

But it was about the same density as aluminum. And when you say Byfield Brown, you're just assuming that that's the anti-gravitational force created through this. You could make capacitors out of the carbon nanotubes. The carbon nanotubes had a capacitive, dielectric coating on them in this case. So it seems a reasonable assumption. So interesting. And you could use that spherical shape as a receiver for scalar energy. Tesla was trying to do that to power flying vehicles.

Did he have designs for flying? Yeah, I know he had worked at Worden-Flux. I think he actually flew some. Really? This rumor has it. Really? Yeah. Where are those rumors?

I didn't know about that. That's amazing. Oh. there's a book called Lost Science, I believe it's in there. It's hard to get a hold of now. Do you have any footage of the implant being taken out of any of these patients? I'm not sure if I may have like one or two pieces like that. I definitely have a lot of photos and stuff like that.

It would be amazing to show as much as we can, just because I think the average person this is so far out. Yeah, I mean, it's way people don't believe it because it's so far. outside what we're taught. Yeah. And the government's done their best to punish people that believe in this in various ways. Yeah. I feel like I have to ask this question, but I feel like it's important for you,

because you've seen like a very lovely person. I've really enjoyed this conversation. If you Google your name, for whatever reason, this OKC bombing thing shows up. And so I just want to give you an opportunity to address what that is. is. A massive car bomb exploded outside of a large federal building in downtown Oklahoma City, shattering that building, killing children, killing federal employees, military men, and civilians. Oh, yeah. Well, I got in trouble with the feds 30 years ago on a gun charge, weapons charge, and I got investigated along with 14,000 other people that were into similar things at that time.

And they, near as I can figure, the ATF was trying to punish me for not cooperating their investigation by trying to link me to that bombing. Oh, they were just trying to link you to that. Yeah. And you never knew Timothy McVeigh or anything. No, and they never read any proof of any of that. That's so weird. In fact, I found out from a guy that's writing a book on Oklahoma City that I was cleared early on in the investigation, but they kept on saying that on the news. That sucks, man.

It almost makes me think there's some sort of campaign against you because, like, why is there so much online that's like... Well, I think there is. I think they're trying, I think they're taking full advantage of that whole thing to try to discredit my UFO research now. Yeah. Yeah. And you never cross past with McVeigh at all. You never even met the guy. No, I met, never met the guy. That's so crazy. And he didn't have a UCLA connection or anything like? No. Okay. No. That's weird, man. I'm sorry. Well, you know, if I wrote down everything that's occurred in my life in an autobiography, I don't think anybody would believe it. Yeah. You know, but I experienced it.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, what's anything come to mind? Well, just all this stuff. And, you know, first they try to link me to this Oklahoma thing and then the aliens show up and just a very, very odd series of events. Yeah. And is there, is there anything about your, is there anything about your father, his history that might be related? So he said at the end of his life, he sort of admitted that he was, you know, maybe, you know, was taken up on a craft. Do you think he was doing any sort of covert work in any of these areas?

I'm not sure. I don't think he was doing any covert work, but he was, he kept things pretty close to his chest. So I think if he was, I'd be the last person he would have told. Interesting. Okay. Yeah, I don't know what would have even been going on at Oxnard specifically, but yeah. Yeah. Well, there's a military base there that near there that was very important at one time, Point McGoo.

Okay, Point McGoo. What did they do at Point McGoo? I tested a lot of missiles. Okay. Submarine launch missiles and air-dair missiles mostly. Okay. It's fascinating, man. Well, I really hope you get all the support for your work.

You're trying to raise money for this company, is that right? Neutron Star Nanotech. The economy being so bad right now, I haven't had a whole lot of success, but I'm still hoping to get that off the ground. Well, hopefully this gets amplified among people with deep pockets who are interested, I think, in supporting, you know, some of the most frontier science and work. Oh, very wealthy people have come forward to a country. couple of times and wanted to support my work, but it fell through. And I had reason to believe at the time that the government told him not to do it. Really? Yeah, Robert Bigelow was going to hire me for his company at one time, too, and that also fell through. What do you, it's very strange? What do you

think it is, you know, with Bigelow, and a lot of these guys, it's like, there's this desire to get into this stuff, and you really want to know, and then things get, like, dark at a certain point. Like, it's it's it's it's a very and i find this you know uh with my own inquiries into the topic where like it's just uh it's hard to navigate because there's a lot of weird stuff you know it's there's a lot of bad there's a lot of bad energy and then there's there's good energy too they're amazing people in this field but a lot of people are attracted to it for the wrong reasons and there's i think there's even like a like an old testament line about trying to use trying to go into you know kind of sacred stuff using with a commercial impulse and that being like this really you know

bad thing to do having said that i think we live in a capitalist system and like the only thing that kind of works in the modern day is like start a company around the thing so i'm not like anti all companies you know i used to invest in companies so it's this weird but it is this weird thing where i think if if the motivation is to make money off the thing it often goes south and i i don't know big I'd love to interview him, but my sense is it sort of didn't pan out maybe in the way he wanted it to. Well, Dr. Laird told me that he started this aerospace company of his because he had an alien experience of his own out in the desert and that they told him to meet them in space. Who said this? The aliens told him to meet him.

This is Bigelow? They told Bigelow to meet them. Bigelow, they told Bigelow to meet them in space. Whoa, really? Yeah. So Bigelow had an experience and the alien said, we'll meet you in space. Right. And then from then on, he, like, committed his life, essentially to looking into all this stuff.

UFO reverse engineering, hiring the alien implant specialist. Like, really? On the Bigelow Aerospace website, there was a little alien head, too. Wow. kind of like he was announcing that or that is absolutely wild the amount of stories you hear like that like um i think agnew bonson who uh he headed up the institute for field physics and um you know uh at north carolina chapel hill and he also funded towns and brown so he's working on all this crazy anti-gravity stuff and hosting kind of the top gravity physicist in the world freeman dyson

fineman um peter bergman all these guys convened john wheeler at the institute of field physics in 1957 for this Chapel Hill conference. And he and his diaries talks about like the space brothers talking to him and possibly kind of prompting him to look into this stuff. Townsend Brown had similar experiences where he, he had space brother experiences that he discusses. So it's like you're being prompted by the beings to look into what their tech is or something. They talked to Tesla too, according to his writing. He said that, yeah, in Colorado Springs. He said he communicated with aliens. Did you ever have anything like that?

I mean, I have to ask you because you're working on all this stuff. Did the beings ever say, Steve, you are going to dedicate your life to alien research? I don't remember them saying that specifically, but I've always had an obsession with this kind of research and certain other things. And I think that they do that to a lot of people because once you get obsessed with the topic and you do all this research, on it. If they have a brain implant in you, then they know it too at that point. So they're getting you to do their research for them. Yeah. It's like this weird distributed science model or something where like they just have, they're collecting intel through these different scientific nodes or something. It's so trippy. Yeah. Yeah. And we're all, we're all, maybe their science

experiment. Who now? Well, one of the obsessions, part of the reason I got into trouble before was one of the obsessions was with weapons. And I, you know, it's, I think that's kind of a characteristic with some, some people that are class two experiencers. There was one guy that was most likely a class two experiencer that, that had a bunch of guns in this house. And it was a big to do over that. So maybe it's a characteristic.

I don't know. Fascinating. Well, Steve, I really appreciate this. This is a lot of fun. I feel like I could talk to you for hours. I can tell we're interested in a lot of the same stuff. And yeah, I really, really appreciate your time. Yeah, no problem. My pleasure.

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