American Alchemy with Jesse Michels - Michael Herrera: “We Saw A 300ft UFO in the Indonesian Jungle” (Marine Vet Tells All)

Episode Date: March 26, 2025

Former Marine Michael Herrera joins us alongside UAP Gerb ( @UAPGerb  ) to reveal chilling details about his 2009 Indonesian jungle encounter with a colossal octagonal craft and the covert black‑ops network behind it. He describes being intercepted by eight elite operators wielding biometric scanners instead of weapons, then watching a 300‑foot, Vantablack craft silently hover below the treetops before vanishing at “several thousand mph.” Herrera’s story reveals a hidden program using psionic “P3 assets” to summon and bait UAPs for retrieval and reverse engineering. He claims this secret program is part of a worldwide race driven by black budgets and consciousness-based tech to control and exploit non-human engineering breakthroughs. Please check out our sponsors below: F*%k your khakis and get The Perfect Jean 15% off with the code [JESSE15 at theperfectjean.nyc/JESSE15 #theperfectjeanpod Rocket Money: Cancel your unwanted subscriptions and reach your financial goals faster with Rocket Money. Go to https://RocketMoney.com/jesse today. LUCY: Let’s level up your nicotine routine with Lucy. Go to https://lucy.co/jesse and use promo code JESSE to get 20% off your first order. Lucy has a 30-day refund policy if you change your mind. -------------------------- ***JOIN OUR WHOP (Exclusive Episodes & Group Calls) ➤ https://whop.com/jessemichels ***Become a Member of American Alchemy: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCuG2KzrIMe3qoNcuDVpwnXw/join -------------------------- Timestamps: 00:00 Introduction 01:22 Meeting Steven Greer 05:50 The Mission 13:18 The Interception 22:45 Who Made the Craft? 26:33 The Photos & Keeping Quiet 32:05 Going Public 34:25 Greer's National Press Club 37:02 Jake Barber 44:40 Psionic Assets 45:24 The Other Marines in the Unit 51:59 Remote Retrieval Missions 1:00:48 Philosophical Questions of Existence 1:04:07 Understanding Personal Narratives 1:09:26 Theories of Reverse Engineering 1:14:28 Historical Context of UFO Technology 1:18:44 Government Secrecy and Disclosure 1:21:19 The Role of Money in Black Programs 1:25:29 Insights on Defense Contractors 1:31:38 Global Cooperation Against Extraterrestrial Threats 1:37:17 The Nature of Military Technology 1:44:51 The Duality of Technological Innovations 1:49:35 Scalar Wave Healing Technologies 1:55:08 The Conflict Between Profit and Health 2:07:53 Conclusion -------------------------- SPOTIFY ➤ https://tinyurl.com/jessemichelsspotify INSTAGRAM ➤ https://www.instagram.com/jessemichelsofficial TWITTER ➤ https://twitter.com/AlchemyAmerican EMAIL/BOOKINGS ➤ [e-mail] #aliens #science #interview Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

It's not like trying to summon a spirit. You're summoning essentially technology that has consciousness to it. Well, that platform came into that craft itself. So this thing was either anti-gravitic itself and how it basically merged in together. Could this just be like an occult thing that's been going after hundreds of years? How do you think they learned? They were actually two of the guys, we're actually talking about either, hey, should we smoke these guys right now? you know, that's what they kept saying.

Do you think, realistically, pulling these technologies from these black programs and putting them into the hands of people who don't know what the fuck they're doing, is a smart move? James Allen, the documentarian of Mark McCandlish and the Flexliner story, he was diagnosed and dead of an aggressive form of cancer in about three weeks. Yeah, the UFO stuff's cool because they fly. The medical shit, the stuff that we could also do with this technology is going to be far more advanced. I'm here with Michael Herrera.

And I couldn't be more excited to talk to you. This has been a long time coming. You were a former Marine who experienced something just really fascinating in 2009 in Indonesia and the jungle. And it involves craft that prosaically is not understood as far as how it works. And also seemingly special forces.

We don't know if it was special forces. You don't describe them, definitely special forces, but a team with, prowess and wherewithal as far as the machinery they're using and how smooth they're operating, that also seems like at another level and they're kind of apprehending you when you see this craft. And so I'm very excited to talk to you. I know it took a lot of courage for you to speak out. And then we have Sammy UAP Gerb as well here, who's a legend, has an amazing channel. Goes as deep as anybody when it comes to actual legacy operations from like a core detail way, just the facts.

and so very excited to have you, man. And you guys have done a great show together, too. And if you guys want, like, very low-level details as to what went down, drawings, pictures, illustrations, extremely detailed, you know, accounts. Go to your channel because you have some great stuff with Michael. He's very thorough, which is something that's very rare. Especially in this space. It's extremely rare.

Correct. And that's kind of the thing why it made easier to talk to you because you were actually able to connect the dots and see and compare notes, basically to what you've experienced with other talk and other people. I mean, your story had been floating around for a while, and people were pretty dismissive of it until, you know, our mutual friend, Joey is not my name, started to reach out to you and speak to you. And he got me in contact with you and you were able to provide quite a bit of interesting information, including, you know, direct evidence from yourself and Joey that you met up with a, who you referred to at the time as an insider. Yep. who now turned out to be Jake Barber.

Correct. And that was the thing that I was kind of weirded out about. So in 2023, when I testified with the National Press Club, obviously I got in touch with the Greer actually in 2018. So I went to an event that he had in Boulder, Colorado, and listened to his lecture, things like that. I was saying in 2017, because the ex I was with at the time I met her in 2017, but then I was like, okay,

And then I started thinking because there's been some people on Twitter. It was like, no, it was 2018 because one of the volunteers was there. So it was like, okay, so it is really 2018. And I had listened to his lecture. And then I ended up going up to, he was doing a book signing. So I went and got a book because I was the only way to get in front of him. At the time when he was doing book signings he doesn't do that anymore because people can get very crazy. I've seen it firsthand.

It's a little hysterical. But, you know, this subject brings a very interesting crowd with it, which is something. I don't relate to whatsoever, but I mean, to who of their own. So I had told him, you know, hey, you know, I'm a former Marine, you know, I had witnessed something such as like a drug running operation using this kind of technology. Do you know anything about that? So I was trying to get his attention. He was kind of like, yeah, yeah, I've heard a lot.

But then when I said that, he, like, told everybody to shut up. And he stood up and handed me his card. And he was like, don't tell anybody this information, don't relate to anybody. Just keep it between us. contact me when you're ready. And then when he did the first episode of Sean Ryan is when basically he was time about the whistleblower protections and going through the system to basically go through that route.

So I was like, you know what, that might be time to actually pull a trigger on this and see what can come of it. This is the Gallagher Amendment around whistleblower protection. NDA National Defense Authorization Act. Yeah, as part of the National Defense Authorization. And that was of coming into 2023, I think, is when they passed that. And then there was some rendition of which we were trying to do 2024 with the whole amnesty period for six months. And then obviously imminent domain with some of these technologies and assets that these black sides have.

So when I approached, I got in touch with Greer again. I sent me an email, say, I don't know if you remember me. And he goes, I know exactly. And I remember exactly who you are, which was weird. So he gave me his phone number. So I called him. We basically talked for about an hour, just kind of went through what I've already discussed. publicly, which was essentially that we were a part of 31st Marine Expeditionary Unit that was

tasked out to basically respond to a humanitarian assistance operation out in the Philippines, which was Operation Katsana. And then what ended up happening was we were the only ship, which was the USS Denver that routed out to the western part of Sumatra and Indonesia, which was a little weird, but, you know, of course, I've never been on a mission before that point. So that was kind of the first one for me. Why were you guys rerouted? It was the only ship, but that was the,

orders we were given. I don't know specifically why. There was speculation and then when we actually got briefed in the ward room that there was some Obama's family members that were there, so they had some seal team that was going to be there to retrieve those people if need be. That's interesting. Because Obama lived there from age six to ten, I believe so, with his mom. Yeah. And so there were some relatives and they were going to get them out because what happens in that part of the world is when there's a natural disaster happens, usually these terrorist organizations or these insurgent groups, with, typically try to take over that area and inflict harm, chaos, ransom. I mean, whatever they do.

And so they were afraid of that. So that's why they sent a reactionary force to basically go coordinate area off and then go deal with that, which we didn't do too much of that. All we basically did was try to provide security for an LZ so that way they can keep, you know, we can keep if there were people there, which would this particular LZ didn't have anybody there, which was weird. For the audience, what's an LZ? Lining, Lining zone. It's more like a hasty LZ. So Hasty LZ means it's a hasty LZ means it's a hasty landing zone. So it was something that wasn't like prepared ahead of time. Like we're going to plot here and this is we're going to go. It's just like, here's the clearing. This is where

they're going to land. At least it's how it felt. Pilots can probably attest to something different. I don't know. And then basically that's when we disembarked the helicopter. And for us, it's like, okay, you're going to have the tactical advantage, take the high ground. So that's what we decided to do. And I wasn't the one who was in charge of all this. So there was weird to not have the comms because everybody's talking about that. Yep. I was not the one to set up. Maybe the squad leader, whoever was in charge of that point, had something. You guys had no comms, no signals. You could get in touch with anybody. I don't remember anybody having that. We could have had a little radio or something that the sergeant that was there at the time. You're sent into the jungle alone, basically, with your unit. Correct. You know, so it's like a fire team plus two. So six guys. And so we end up, you know, seeing this craft, which.

That's amazing. Who made this? So there's a, I was actually looking for other accounts. of octagonal craft that people may have seen. So I did a quick Google search. Came across this on Etsy, and so I can't remember the gentleman's name, but I ended up getting in touch with him and told him who I was. So he sent me two of these. One, I signed for him and sent him back to him so he can have that.

And two, because he hooked me up with two models. But did he make that to spec, or he had already built that? No, he made this to spec. So this was after the fact of what I came forward. But this essentially is what we saw. So it almost looks like a fractal. Like you have like, you know, kind of an accentuated version of the eight-gone or octagon shape on top that's like a pyramid. And then you have like a lesser, you know, a less concave version.

Right. In the middle and then like an even less, you know, more kind of spread out. And this is off from memory because what people, you know, the SSO's like a very matte black. But then it was also transitioned like a light matte gray. And I don't know if we were going down this hill and we could still kind of see it. And maybe sun was hitting it to an extent or I don't know. But it was basically like it was changing colors. But this panel right here, whatever these are, were basically the very Vanta Black,

which was the blackest I've ever seen anything. It was like light could get absorbed into this. Almost like a black hole or something. Kind of. That's the only way it can describe it. Or Vantablaq is this car, this BMW car or something. The paint that they did that it basically absorbs light. It's very crazy stuff.

So that's what that reminded me of. but, you know, I estimated that this thing was probably about 300 feet. And when we end up getting into this clearing is basically when we were intercepted by this force. You know, so Arrow put out a report that was completely false because I didn't say it was U.S. special operations. That never came out of my mouth. What I hypothesized is that they were at some point because the tactics they used, they already had to drop on us by the time we even noticed them. So, yeah, you got, you know, armchair generals out there. He said, oh, yeah, I wouldn't have done that.

I would have fired out. him. It's like, yeah, good luck with that. But he'd get pulled over by a cop and have a, have a weapon and see how fast you can reach while he's already got his drawn on him. Yeah. We'll see how well that works for you. Yeah. You know, F-A-F-O.

You and your fellow Marines, you did not have rounds chambered. No, we did not. When you were encountered in like a pincere formation. We were in condition three. So all we had was a magazine answer. So all you have to do is hit the charging handle to chamber around. But if we're sitting there patrolling, because this is the funny thing is there's a lot of optics that are played and stuff like this, right?

So it's not like you're wanting to use this now. Granted, Indonesia is the second largest terrorist capital in the world, but it doesn't necessarily mean that you're going to encounter any kind of bad guys, which we really didn't encounter that. And for these operators who we encounter, who's to say that they're really bad? Because the difference is, if we were to do an operation ourselves, and we had people, we had no idea that we're armed coming up to us,

I'm pretty sure we'd react in the same way, especially if there's something that's going on, that we either need to protect people, protect assets, or something going on. We're not going to have the same kind of welcoming, like, yeah, go ahead and take a look, guys. You know, before we speculate on what was going on there, just the core details. How long did you get a clean shot, like a look at that craft? Several times.

Because while we're being held up at gunpoint, which these guys are at standoff distance. It's not like they're sitting there pointing a muzzle right at your face like this close because, you know, that's only Hollywood that does that. And these guys are smart enough, just like in the military, you're going to be at a standoff distance so nobody can get the advantage of you trying to disarm you, whatever it might be. So, but frequently dealing with these guys and dealing with that craft, it's just going back and forth. So, like, how long is this process where you, yeah, have a clean look at the craft? Is it like, it's minutes?

It's not. It's minutes. Okay, wow. It's nothing, like, substantially long. Yeah. It's just enough because, like I said, these trucks were coming up. Yeah. Which were either tundras or F350's.

More likely, they're probably tundras. But the only thing I could make out was that it was some sort of heavy duty truck that was built on that some sort of chassis. that was big enough to pull these containers. And how close are you to the craft while you're being apprehended? Maybe 150, 300 meters, if that, because the way, like, this clearing was pretty big, but this craft was enormous. And there's, because even in the rendition, there's, like, a platform below the craft? Correct.

And do you have any, like, first intuitions as to what that served as, the platform versus the craft? Well, that platform came into that craft itself. It lifted off the ground. Now, when you're looking at it like this, I mean, of course, so that you can see that there's like a metal pull there to basically hold this up up top. But there is no metal pull or nothing to support that, right? So this thing was either anti-gravitic itself and how it basically merged in together. So it's something like it's very, like there's Air Force cargo planes that basically detest a fuselage

so that way they can just roll the plane off, load up everything, load it, and then just take off. I'm hypothesizing that there might be the same kind of concept, just something very quick. They just load up, get whatever they want, and get the hell out of there. And so these guys apprehends you and what sort of equipment do they have? Do they say anything? So they're obviously talking about they want to smoke us or what should we do with these guys. They're making threats. We can get lost out here.

We can take you anywhere pretty much. We can kill you. Should we shoot these guys? It's going back and forth and there was only just two of them talking with this. But you can tell by their dialects that they were American. You can tell by their facial expressions that they were, you know, they were serious. serious people. How many are they versus how many are you? So there's six of us and they're eight of them. Okay. And they, like I said, they were split off. So when they kind of approached us when we were

going down in a tactical column, they were four and four on each side. So they basically almost have what they call nosebleed. So they basically had sectors of fire like this. So for them to fire upon us is not going to take as many rounds because they could just hit us instantaneously. So these guys knew what the hell they were doing. And that was interesting, you know, having thought at least what these guys' backgrounds could be, then Jake comes forward, which is interesting, especially his background and his people, you know. So very good guys, by the way.

But these guys in particular, I mean, they were so fluid and so smooth, it's like they've done this several times. It's just protocol. They just know it so well. It was just very fluid. Hey, guys, I want to tell you about my new favorite piece of apparel. These are called the perfect genes. They're literally the perfect genes.

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NYC. Again, that's the perfect gene. nyc or just google the perfect gene use code jesse 15 for that 15% off again that's code jesse 15 that's 15% off for new customers at the perfect gene dot nyc after purchase they'll ask where you heard about them please support our show and tell them that we sent you fuck your khakis get the perfect gene so when they apprehend us they basically take our weapons from us and they're just taking them at magazines out there checking to make sure there's nothing racked in there, which there wasn't. I think they may have said something about that too.

And because there's no way if they would have engaged us and we have the razor weapon up and it's not chambered, well, yeah, you're going to have to rack around in the chamber and then flip it off safe and fire. While they already have their safe, you could hear flip them off and then basically just they could have got us. You heard the safeties flip off. Oh, yeah. Wow. And did they have any other equipment? They had something that was like a biometrics. It's like a bat system because that's something that we were kind of taught a little bit on how to track people, see biometrics tracking.

And so when insurgents were having this used on them, it takes fingerprints, it takes pictures and all that kind of stuff. They had something very similar to that. And then they had like a- Did they take photos or fingerprints? They were trying to take, so they took our cat cards out of our pockets, which we always have our cat cards in our left breast pocket. And so when they took that out, they were trying to scan them, and I don't know if it didn't work or whatever, they were getting frustrated with it. And then this is when they took out another device that looked like a, you know, a modern-day smartphone very thin. And then I've had people that were formerly of the CIA tell me that these are CAVCOM devices that they use.

And that's basically what they were able to translate and get that information to whoever had it. Because they knew who we were after that point because they had our IDs, had her names, had her ranks, everything. So as that's going on, they're searching us down. know, which I had, before making that truck down the hill, I had a little Panasonic camera that I actually took pictures of this thing with from a top view, at least because there's some parts of it that were obscured because of vegetation. And I also had pictures of the helicopter, you know, like one of them was, you know, when we're on the ship. And, you know, I had all these photos that I took, you know, even out of town and all that. And they didn't find it in my dump pouch,

which was good because then the whole time I'm thinking, like, I got something that can fucking prove this. It was not just fucking hearsay, right? And so what did you have that could prove it? The pictures. You had the pictures and that was in your pouch. And that was in my pouch. And they never searched that pouch. Wow. So I was a sawgunner by trade. So that's what we always had was, you know, everybody has a pouch. But typically I just had like drum mag pouches instead of a regular M16 or M4 magazine pouches, which I had a magazine pouch right here just in case we had to use magazines for the saw because it could take both, belt fed with magazines. So as they're going through us, they're basically searching us up and down,

and then they're basically just threatening us again, just kind of roughing us up a little bit. And then that's when the trucks started coming, because, yeah, I'm paying attention to these guys that are doing this stuff to us, and then all of a sudden I'm paying attention to these trucks that we start seeing them pull up, and they have these trailers on the back that have this HVX system on the top. So that was the suspicion I had that it was drugs,

because some of the heavy equipment industry that I do deal with, they have containers that do that for like vegetation or for like food or for equipment that needs to be chilled, whatever it might be. So I'm like, okay, I think it's drugs. So they drive these trucks onto this platform here, which is you can see like when the trucks were going up, the trucks were getting smaller,

which was able to kind of gauge the size a little bit, and then they were loading it on. I mean, I don't see how they, I didn't see how they actually took the trailers, They drove on to this platform that, like, seemingly levitates up. And it didn't make any noise. It didn't make any noise. He said it did almost like a base hum.

Like the whole thing itself did the whole time. And it's something that's so different that if somebody was to recreate it accurately, like Joey kind of did the same thing, which is very similar. Correct. And it was something like that because it wasn't a traditional propulsion system by any means. It's not like a rotor inside something. And so you got photos of the. They crafted. Yes, I did. I took video and photos. When we were on top of that hill is when I took

photos of this thing. And it was obscured by some vegetation. And that's what caught our eye because it was something that was very abstract from the rest of the environment is changing colors. It was like, is it a building? What the hell is going on? Yeah. That wasn't the one who made the decision to go down there to go find out. And when you were on top of the hill, you couldn't see the trucks or the operating? Nothing. Couldn't they'll see people? Because like I said, it's very dense jungle, very thick vegetation. There's some clearings, of course. There's some, you know, what I could remember at least, you know, which mainly was a vegetation. I can't tell you if there's mountains or hills or anything,

which I remember there being hills, of course, when we were flying, it could kind of peek out. But other than that, I don't know exactly where we went or where we landed to or anything like that. And I know there's been people that have been trying, that I've asked for help to see if they could find the LZs. And to no avail, they can't because there's no information on them. And the F-350s or Tundras or whatever these trucks are, they're attached to, it's like containers with H-Rex? Yeah, they're, yeah. What do the containers look like? So it's like a kind of like a shipping container a little bit, but a little bit more reinforced, if you want to call it that. Okay.

And that's what I hypothesize it was drugs. It was just like, you know. And so it also had things that are like Pelican casings on the back of the actual truck beds themselves. So there could be weapons. It could be other things in those things because they're very airtight and they seal up from moisture pretty well. So it keeps everything dry. So, yeah, it could have been weapons. It could have been anything.

But we mainly would put weapons in those. So I'm assuming they did the same thing. too. Yep. And so when we saw the last trucks go up is basically when this whole thing happened with the platform raising up and then the craft lowered itself and then it went over the tree line because it was right in it was like literally on the ground or not on the ground, but it was hovering on the ground, but it was low enough that it was actually lower than the treetops. So this thing rose up past the tree tops and then it shot off to the left, but prior to doing that because it's rotating and it was rotating in a clockwise motion. So you can see,

seeing these lights appear on the very corners of this thing, which were red, yellow, green, and blue is the only things I remember seeing. And then this thing just shot off, and it was just like a black blur. So extremely fast? Extremely fast, fast enough that obviously it, for some reason, did not disturb the vegetation around it. There was coconuts in these trees that could have easily fallen off with rotor wash or exhaust wash from low-flying aircraft.

That didn't happen. And obviously it didn't make a sonic boom either because of how fast this thing flew off. Wow. But it was just like a black blur. That's incredibly. Any estimates on speed, or is that just really hard? I mean, several thousand miles an hour. I've never seen anything fast like that.

I wanted to be a fighter pilot, too, so I know what aircraft and how they move, and that can tell you all the armament that can go on these things. And this was never something that I ever would think I would ever experience. Did it shoot off inland or towards the ocean? Towards the ocean. And any sort of ruffling of the treetops? Nothing. So it almost like felt like it felt like it.

It was sort of like his own environment. Nothing that could react to what our environment was. And so this is important, I think, to tell the audience. ETs are never mentioned in the context of the core details of this story have nothing to do with extraterrestrials. And did you have a first instinct on whether this was been made or not of this earth? Two things. Well, prior to that, I didn't believe in the subject.

and I really killed a hell out of people for it. It was like, you guys are fucking crazy. Like, they make movies great. You know, of course, the movies they come out are all fucking terrifying and shit. So it's like, you can imagine a xenomor for that exists and what it would do here.

Yeah. You know, like, or the thing from John Carpenter's. I mean, it's something like that. I mean, fuck that shit. But, you know. Did you ever encounter it in military context before this? No. Yeah.

Okay. So like literally, zero context. Zero context. And I was one of those things. So I didn't believe in it. I never saw anything like that. Did you ever suspect we had aviation technology? I mean, I've heard about it, like the Aurora, for example,

which was something that was hypothesized, which is very interesting. But it's just like spy planes like that, but nothing antagravitic or anything. And then, you know, so that day confirmed that we had this technology because it was manmade. You could clearly tell it was manmade. It wasn't like ET. And then some of the stuff I've seen, you know, recently with ET craft photos or, you know, know, even doing CE5 with Greer and a couple of other people, and you can kind of see that it was nothing you could really describe. It was just like an orb or it was just like something,

like a very bright light, but it was very pure. It wasn't like a drone where you could see like, you know, blinking lights or nothing, but it was just a very, very pure light. That's extremely important for the audience as well, where like the E, whatever the E.T. stuff, and we don't even know if that's extraterrestrial, but it doesn't seem to be like prosaic nuts and bolts like we're building. No, it's not. That stuff, I don't know, It looks at most like a plasma orb if you had to like, you know, compare it to something that is manmade. And it's often extremely ephemeral, weakly entangled with that. Maybe there is some sort of sensor pickup.

Right. But things like this where you see a thing sort of hovering there, fly off, people interacting with it. I mean, that seems mostly at the manmade variety. Why would ET be trying to help out these guys out of anybody? You know, that's kind of the thing that I, that I, you know, repeatedly say, because It was like, no, 100% was man-made. Based off of that, I can confidently tell you, and I know for a fact recently, you know,

throughout the last almost two years, I know for a fact we have, you know, reverse engineer technologies. And that's where the big secret is is because they don't want people to know that, because then they have to explain to the whole world and why we're still on fossil fuels, why are we still having to depend on oil and gas for our vehicles or even medical technology being is,

it could be further advanced, you know, which I've been exposed to. and everybody gets confused to think that Jake's team has access to this technology. It's like, no, this was somebody else that was in the programs that was on a geneticist level that was dealing with this kind of stuff that has this technology. I'm even hearing this because I've heard you on a couple of podcasts, GERB's and Sean Ryan's, and I think maybe the most overlooked detail is the mission itself. It feels weird.

It does. It's like, okay, Obama's family has mentioned you don't have comms. Do you ever think you were sort of set up or there was something around the mission itself that was a little funny? I mean, it could be entirely possible. I don't know. I wasn't planning this mission or planning anything like that. I don't know. It's very odd and it's very weird.

It's not typical. But again, and this is the first experience of going on a first mission by my, you know, since I was freshly in at that time. So that was the first mission I ever did. So it's like, okay,

it's kind of like just put together really quick, you know? Yeah. That's what it felt like. Because I think this is important to touch on, too. This wasn't with your normal fire team. No, it was not. Your squad leader, your fire team leader has spoken out against you before. Yeah.

On public, but this wasn't with your team. No, it was not. And this wasn't a special mission. No, there's no secret mission with this. This is basically almost like a working party. And it was good because we just wanted to get off the ship. Yep. And that's all it resulted.

So, yeah, if we do LZ security or loading up boxes, well, yeah, it's better than being cramped up on a ship. Do you ever think, because later Jake Barber back-channeled with you, And I think he dealt with the transport of high-value targets. He did. And so do you ever think that maybe this actually had something to do with Obama's Indonesian long-loss family? And they were actually being transported on these. I don't think so because when, so now that everybody understands the mission and at least with what we encountered,

now I can kind of go in to talk about how I met Jake. Yep. Okay. Real quick, before we get into this, what happened to the photos? Okay, so good question. So what happened was we ended up going back to Subic Bay after that whole, you know, the mission, we ended up getting ship going back to the Philippines, basically regrouping for the rest of the fleet. We pull into Subic Bay, so we have like, I think, four or five days of liberty there. So I had my camera, so, you know, which these guys also had their phones, which I don't think they took them with them.

They may have. I don't remember. But I had my locker secured when we were going out into town. And we were supposed to report back, excuse me, at nighttime right before, you know, I think 10 o'clock is when we had to be or 11 o'clock. I can't remember, but ended up going back that night, the first night we were out, and then I go into my locker. And so, of course, there's the camera's not in there. And I look at my rack, and then there it is, because I had the top rack.

And there it is, and the battery's missing, and the memory card's missing. So I had another battery in my locker, so I went and got that, popped it in, tried to turn it on, and it wouldn't work. So I threw it away. The other guys that were with me were missing their phones. and some other stuff that they had. And that's to remember what I can remember, at least what one of the guys was there.

But that was very weird because who else would have access to that? And the lock was not broken. So I don't know how they jimmied open that locker with that lock on it unless they popped it somehow and took that camera out because that camera was secured. And then they get back and there it is. It's completely, you know, disheveled and you can't turn it on. It doesn't work anymore.

So there goes the evidence of that. So somebody knew it was going on. And then obviously this Air Force Lieutenant Colonel, if that's really who it was, but if somebody is, you know, they had an Air Force dress blue uniform with ribbons, a shitload of them. They had jump wings. They didn't have no pilot badge or nothing like that. And then they had Lieutenant Colonel Insignia, which is a silver oak leaf. And he was at the CP and basically threatened me.

With CP for the audience? Control point. Or command post, sorry, not control point. So it's a command post. and this was back when we were in Camp Hanson. And so there was nobody there. So this is back stateside. No, no, no, this was in Japan.

Okinawa, which is Japan, but still. So when that happened, so it happened to all of us, but it wasn't at the same time. And that's basically when he had made a sign in NDA, saying, you weren't going to talk about this. And the only things I remember on it were TSSCI, and Indonesia were the only thing. So I remember putting my Social Security number on there.

I remember putting my first and last name middle name two. And then he told me flat out that if you talk about this, you can go to prison or you can be executed over it. Fellow alchemists, it's a new year, and that means it's time to get organized and take control of our financial wellness. For me, Rocket Money has been an absolute game changer. It helped me uncover all sorts of subscriptions I totally forgot about. Like a few, I had no idea I was paying for months after I stopped using the services. With Rocket Money, I canceled these in just a few clicks, saving money instantly. Rocket Money is a personal finance app that helps find and cancel your unwanted subscriptions,

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savings. It makes staying on top of your finances easy and stress-free. Rocket Money has over 5 million users and has saved a total of 500 million in canceled subscriptions, saving members up to $740 a year when using all of the app's premium features. Cancel your unwanted its subscriptions and reach your financial goals faster with RocketMoney. Go to RocketMoney.com slash Jesse today. That's rocketmoney.com slash Jesse. So it was a scare tactic because the thing is, even people in the government I talk to in this Senate Armed Services, for example, there's no protocols that would allow for something like that to have unless you were working on a program. So I don't know whether this was just a scare

tactic to basically just say, hey, guys, we haven't forgot about you. Also, for the audience's sake, I do think it's important to say you haven't made any money off of coming out with this story. And in fact, I know this about you and I know you know this GERB too. You have a pretty successful business out here in Colorado. Multiple companies. Yeah, multiple companies. And so if anything, you're sort of losing money. I mean, I don't know.

I've had the, you know, I have Rolex. It's one thing I collect. It's another business that I do with, you know, obtaining watches and trading them up or selling them. You know, it's a good side hustle. if you can find the right buyers, of course. But, you know, it's one of those things that I have to grind to make money and the best way to do is with my companies. You know, this doesn't, I'm not getting paid to be here today.

I don't get paid for interviews. I don't get paid to go have meetings at Cap Hill or anything like that. I sure as hell don't get paid to go attend Greer's events to either, you know, speak at some of them because something may be valuable. And that's kind of the thing that, you know, I wish I was making more money because who the hell wouldn't want to make more money, but this isn't a path to do it. So the thing that I'll tell people is just like,

you'll know people by their deeds. Yeah. You know people based off their actions and what they do. And what I'm trying to do is basically solve this problem we've got. I remember hearing your story around that National Press Club event. And my first reaction is this is the weirdest of all of the testimonies. And so I didn't know what to make of it. And then my second like meta reaction is like maybe it's the most likely to be legit

because it is so not like a script you would write. Like, it's so weird. It is. And there's so many loose ends where, of course, you're signing up to get accused of all sorts of bullshit, you know, by just telling the story. All of us who are going through this get accused of it. It's nothing new. I don't pay attention to it. I don't care what anybody says.

Yeah. It doesn't do anything. They're not paying my bills. I mean, this is the problem with people these days is they put too much validation into people who realistically hate to say it this way, but don't matter. Why am I going to care with a cab driver or a bouncer or some random person walking in the street that I have no idea. exist until just seeing them, why am I going to put more emphasis on what they care about? Or because somebody says something on Twitter who is hiding behind a ghost account or like, I'm not going to put effort into that.

I put effort into what I'm doing as best as I can, which business is my first thing. That's my livelihood. That's how I make money. And I've lost, I've lost contracts. I've lost business because I've came forward. So if anything, it has hurt me. Yeah. So you come back to the U.S., and this is what, 2009, 2010,

2009, rough, yeah, so probably 2009, and then, yeah, getting back probably 2010, early. How long do you stay silent on the topic, and what convinces you to go public? So at the time, like I talked about meeting Greer in 2018, I kind of hinted around that. My ex I was with at the time, I told her a little bit of the reason why I was wanting to approach Greer. And then so she kind of heard a little bit of it, but then when I came forward fully, through Greer's press club or press club event, but also he had a two-day event before that too. This is where Jake was basically where I'd met Jake,

but I didn't know it was him, if that makes sense. He introduced himself, but I had no idea it was this gentleman. And so he, I mean, he's, you know. So that was the first time you'd ever come out was this National Press Club event with Greer. And you can add color to this as well, because I know you know a lot about Stephen Greer. He had held a similar National Press Club event,

like two decades earlier or something? Yeah, this was in 2001, and he hosted a panel of whistleblowers. And it's an excellent video. I'll draw attention to Martin McCandlish and the alien reproduction vehicle flux liner. We talked about it featured individuals such as, I think, Donna Hare from NASA,

who talked about NASA scrubbing UAP photos. And he also had an accompanying 2001 disclosure briefing document, which is an excellent piece and features so much whistleblower testimony. So this was kind of the first. first time he did a symposium like that since 01. And just also broadly, Stephen Greer was the guy over the last three decades. If you were going to come out and say anything on this topic, he was kind of the only game in town in many ways. And there are other researchers that you like to

talk about, Bill Hamilton and others prior to Greer who've set a lot of the foundation for what he talks about. Yeah. But he was kind of the guy for somebody like Michael and his, you know, with his experience to come to. Not only that, but there was a lot of. period of time, which may continue today where researchers give Greer witnesses. And so researchers say, these are witnesses, this is their name, number, and background. And one example is Bill Hamilton giving primary witness Brad ass to Greer back in 97. Right. So he's doing a more modern version of this National Press Club event. You're speaking at this event. Jake Barber, who's recently come out, again, this Air Force vet who claimed firsthand retrieval, is there, but he's there trying to

infiltrate Greer on behalf of legacy UFO programs. And so what happens? Well, you know, so it's interesting. So I wake up to this message from Greer one morning. And he sent it to me like 2 o'clock in the morning because he stays up pretty late. You know, he tries to be in, he lives in, obviously, the East Coast. And then he's like, lives off a West Coast time, which is odd. But it's his schedule.

So I go to bed pretty early when I don't have anything pressing because I like to get my rest. And then the next day, I mean, my days are usually. crazy as it is. But, um, so I wake up this message and it's literally, hey, this gentleman, you know, I'm not going to say the alias that he was using, um, because I don't want that to be out because then then all of a sudden it'll just could create problems. If Jake wants to speak about that, then you can speak about it on his own accord, but I don't want to put anything in front of him that he doesn't need to be concerned with. So he says this gentleman, uh, knows what you saw, but here's this contact information and get a hold of them when you can. So I'm like,

Oh shit So I sit on that for like a day and a half I'm just thinking like what should I do Should I just blow it off or So I get in touch with them So I call him No voice mo can be sent or anything like that So I'm a text message

So all of a sudden he kind of goes off of A little bit in detail Wanted me to come out west To meet with him face to face And he can explain What it is that I saw What he knows about it I said they'll take my security into consideration.

So, because we got picked, I got picked up in a armored vehicle, which was pretty badass. And this was after you had met him at the National Press Club, right after you had, yeah, I was introduced to him, but I wasn't introduced to him as the guy who knew what I had experienced. So you had met him, but you didn't connect the dots that that was this guy. He didn't, yeah, correct. Who Greer was talking about, who knew a little bit more about what you had experienced. Correct.

Okay, got it. So, you know, and the thing... Do you remember that interaction, though, at the National Festival? Oh, yeah. Like, I told him a little bit what I do business-wise and all that, so he's kind of asking me questions. But, you know, he looked like... I mean, because everybody's seen what he looks like when he wears glasses. And he's wearing, like, this suit jacket and the kind of stuff like that.

He kind of looked like a geek a little bit, you know what I mean? So he's like, okay, this guy's just probably something that I'm with this. But here's a former Tier 1 operator that's, you know, a badass guy that, I mean, I wouldn't double-cross that guy. He's just... The guys, him and his team are very good people, very good guys. So he talks about the security aspect of it, which he'll pick me up in an armored vehicle, which was pretty cool.

And so we were trying to negotiate it when I can fly out. So we got a time scheduled, so I end up booking the flights and telling them this is when I'll arrive and, you know, basically asking him, where should I fly in and where do I, you know, fly back. So he had told me basically how to set all that up. and then he had transportation waiting for me, so he gave me this gentleman's number, and so they picked me up. And we drive from the airport to another location,

and we go to this pretty cool place, and where Jake was at, like an office. Okay. And where are you? Well, I'm just going to say it's in California. Okay. But that's all I'm going to say, right? I'm not going to give.

specifics to where this location was, which is hard to do because, I mean, there's people who research this and by all means research that figure it out. You're going to find some interesting stuff. So we go to this particular place in California. And he's, so he introduces himself again as this alias, right? And so he ends up sending a driver to go get us lunch, which was cool. And so he ended up knowing what I wanted, which was weird, but that's on a separate tangent um he knew what you wanted food wise oh this gentleman did because i told him i wanted some subway because i haven't had that in a while but he knew the exact order that was your favorite order or something okay it was very they had like a little dossier on you or i don't know if that's what the

case was where this guy was what would make sense in the context of jake even saying that his initial role was to red team or infiltrate i mean he ran yeah and i mean it's speculation of course he told me that what his role was after the fact of getting to know him and, you know, getting information from him for almost the past couple years. Mm-hmm. But this guy that was with him was a very good person, very good guy. Cool. And I mean, everybody that I know through Jake was, was a great person, you know.

So we end up going into this office building, we're not really an office, but just like an office, like a conference room. So we sit down, he tells me, okay, go ahead and take out your phone and put an airplane mode and set it off on the side. So I do that. And then actually prior to that, he pulls out this wand thing. It's like this box with this loop. And he says, so he went over it himself and was like, go ahead and take it and do it to yourself.

And that's when we heard the beeper go off on that wand because it went over the phone and it reacted. So he's like, yeah, go ahead and put it on Airplay mode and do that. So he's making sure it wasn't chipped or had any kind of, you know, listening devices or something, you know, like a wire, for example. So then we sit at this conference room table and he's explaining to me what it was. He explained the containers. He explained the program P3, which is not the real program designation. It's just what they call it. Okay.

Which was psionic potential predisposition. Okay. And so, yeah, what? Which, I mean, it sounds very far out there. Yeah. But being in these shoes for the last almost two years and understanding that consciousness is really the key to this whole thing. if you want to understand how these UFOs operate,

you need to understand consciousness better. And so who, yeah, what was in these containers? Because he thought initially it might have been drugs. I thought it was drugs, and he had said that was completely wrong about that. And what is he telling you? He's saying it is basically these people who are psionic assets who have been screened from third world countries that they use them. Because there's different groups that are recruited out of the United States

to participate in different parts of the world. And explain what a science. These are people that are, they have a psychic ability to an extent, to my understanding, and they use these people to basically hook up to this advanced technology, whether it's NIH technology, ET craft, if you will, and basically either summon them or call them in, invite them in. And then the dark part about this whole thing, because everybody started getting wrapped up in human trafficking.

That got slapped onto it. Now, understanding how the dynamic is now where these people volunteer for this kind of work because one, it's, if you had an, I know if you guys had the opportunity to participate in something that was mind-blowing with this technology, would you guys accept it? I'd be, I'd want to know more.

I'd be cautious. What about you? Be cautious, but if it was in a sense where you're participating, because everybody's like, whether these people are dying and all that. Well, why aren't you complaining about people going to the military? Because you're taking risk going into the military too, where you could die. Or, hey, you want to drive a race car for a living.

You happen to crash. Well, that kills you. Or you play professional sports. You could always get screwed up. You know, when I did competitive bodybuilding, people talk about the risk of being on performance enhancing drugs. Well, let's even just super basically for the audience. So these psionic assets are, what are they doing vis-a-vis UFOs?

They are basically getting into a cognitive, or a, a state of consciousness to attract these craft to appear at these certain ranges in this organization, not Jake's team, so everybody needs to understand that Jake's team's completely different from what this organization does. This organization will then sometimes target them with these EMP weapon systems, their scalar, and they knock them out of the sky. So you're sort of baiting the UFOs to come in and then you're knocking them out of that. That's where Jake's team would come into need is because his team will get contracted to go pick up these vehicles and then transfer him to a facility. Okay, so you speak at the MPC, you're then contacted by Jake and you're then

taken to a location. Now, what about the other five Marines that experienced the eight-gone, possibly reverse engineered craft with you? What have they set? Because I know, but I would pick that off. Only two of them have reached out after the fact. The other three have not. And don't think they're going to, and I frankly don't think they ever want any part of this. Now, you, I can attest to this, what have you personally seen? Because I've shared some communication with two of them. What did you see them do? Yeah, both from communications, like, between you and them that you've showed me as well as Joey trying to speak to these two specific Marines. They always, every single time, say, leave me out of it. I don't want to talk about it, but never once have they denied it.

You've offered to actually show us some of these texts while obviously removing any personally identifying information with your communications with one of these. You saw the unredacted before, right? Yeah. To make sure you did choose. You know the names. You guys have seen them. Yes, we've seen the names. And yes.

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try to get a hold of him to see if he wants to actually talk to us. Okay, so you just spoke. You asked him to come out. He said, hey, this is asking too much of me, and it's not worth the risk. My family and military career far exceed anything you are asking of me. It's not worth my life or jeopardizing my family. You need to get out of whatever you are in and don't get me involved. Presumably, I can't view it because it's a screenshot.

But he basically, after that, says, don't ever ask me to do this shit ever again. That's what he said, the last part, right? This was another guy that reached out to me. Yep. Through LinkedIn after he saw my Sean Ryan appearance. Yep. And again, GERB and I both have seen the names. But squad mate, right?

So what the fuck else does that mean? Yeah. Sell your interview, my email is blank, right? So I send my message to check your email. Mm-hmm. Sends this over. So what's up, buddy? How are you doing?

Is I'm doing good, brother. saw that you're getting the word out, mad respect. It said, means a lot hearing from you, brother, especially since we were close. And then he says, yeah, brother, keep the faith. There is nothing, no borders lines that they won't cross. He says, well, I have a spot for my team. So basically, if you wanted to get involved with us trying to do this. And that's pretty much it.

And you guys saw it when it wasn't redacted, you guys saw the names, you guys saw that nothing was. Yep. And you said, well, I have a spot for you on my team. If I go after trafficking off. So that's the human trafficking. Yep, if that is the case, because there's some people who reach out to me. They're combating real human trafficking in Africa, South America. Yeah.

He's obviously trained. So if he wanted to participate and doing that kind of stuff, I got people reach out to me. Hey, you want a part of a task force? And he says at the end, sounds good brother, keep posted. Be easy. Stay safe. Yep. Wow.

But yeah, it says, yeah, brother, keep the faith. There are no borders nor lines that they won't cross. Yep. And then he says, how they're getting the word out. Yeah. What is he talking about if he's not implying that he knows exactly what you're talking about? That's exactly it. The original Daily Mail article on you posted just a screenshot of one of the Marines.

I know who it is. I'm like, leave me out of this. I have a family. I'm still in the military. Something like that. Like I don't want to speak about this. Yeah. But you've showed many further.

Well, I have shown, yes. And I have reported though, are not reported, but I have provided Senate Select Committee on Intelligence all those messages. Because why would he be afraid to help? What's the repercussions if he helps? Obviously, with what we experienced. Why would the other guy be appreciative of me bringing this out, getting the word out as he says? So what happened to the other three?

Are they just completely off-radar? Maybe. I don't know. I'm sure they're aware. I mean, most people are, you know. But, I mean, it's up to them whether or not they choose not to. I completely understand. I'm the one that jumped a gun on us. So far, they have not contributed in a sense.

at least that it was able to give me the messages that they sent me that I can provide to say, what the fuck would they be talking about? If this wasn't real, they would be saying, no, what are you talking about, dude? But the fact they're not denying it, the fact that they're against it, such as they don't want to talk about it because of the ramifications, the first clue. Second clue, why would they be acknowledging and getting the word out? Yep. The only person saying this never happened was your fire team leader, who was.

I got two other Marines who say otherwise. Right. Right. The fire team leader was not on the mission. He was not on the mission. I don't know what he was doing. It's just wild. You're in a, sorry, go for it.

Yeah, I didn't want to catch you off. But no, you know, it's just, you know, to him, they can think and believe it or they want. Yeah. I don't care. It doesn't ruin my mood. It doesn't do anything different. It certainly doesn't derail my mission of what I'm trying to achieve, at least with the transparency with this, to get this problem real then once and for all. It begs all these questions of like if we're engaging in black ops in the jungle in Indonesia.

And you guys just kind of happened upon this then. how many other remote locations where, you know, you just never expect anybody to, any passerby to kind of encounter this stuff, is this going on? Right. Well, I mean, like I've been told, Jake's even aware, too,

that there's several different sites all over the world. Yeah. That deal with this. And you know, Southeast Asia being one of them, third world countries, Mexico being one of them. And so because in your Sean Ryan episode, Sean uses the term human trafficking. Correct.

And so there's this big debate because I interviewed Jake and, you know, so it's like this question of there was, I believe it's tsunami warning at the time, right? It wasn't a tsunami warning. So the thing is, is everything already happened. Oh, so this was post-sunamis? This was post-earthquake and tsunami.

So then were you guys, because I get the Sean Ryan thing, it was like there was like you were almost taking advantage or the quote unquote tier one operators, whoever they were, were taking advantage of the fact that this was a disaster zone, Correct. That was a theory. That was a theory.

Yeah. Or it could have been that their operation was compromised somehow and they needed to get away or whatever it might be. I mean, it's just... Do you have a bias in either direction? Do you think they were sort of rounding people off? I'm just neutral about it because of being in this situation and now understanding, at least to my knowledge of what takes place now. Yep. I had a negative, excuse me, outlook on it at first. Yeah.

Because I didn't understand it. The more I talked to Jake about it, the more he was able to put it into reference on why it made sense. Yeah. Now, is it something that is agreed upon? No, because they're using children, and that's bothersome. I don't know anybody who would feel good about that because I don't have kids, but if I had kids, they were getting plucked in these programs and, you know, being subjected to this kind of stuff, I would have a problem with that.

And I think anybody in their right state of mind would have a problem with that, too. I agree. So, you know, there's some tradeoffs with this. But what people have to understand, and they've very, very much. these legacy programs like nobody's business, like they're all bad guys. It's not the case. It's the best and brightest this country has to offer that get pulled into these programs to basically make our country better to an extent. Now, there are some breakaway parts and factions of this that take their own routes, i.e. Jake, with his initiative with what he wants to do,

which essentially make everybody understand that the legacy programs are not all that bad, but also have another outlet for people to pay attention to as far as making contact with other civilizations and inviting them in and basically assessing the data that they collect, which is public to an extent because this is what they're talking about doing. If you are baiting a thing that seems like it's coming from another world or planet or interdimensional or whatever this is and then zapping it out of the sky, if you know it's bad, that's fine. If you don't, shouldn't we have some caution around doing that? There should be some sort of system diplomatic or whatever you would say, but this is the thing

is, you know, if you're in the military or you're in some sort of capacity where you're taking orders, you're not really in a position to think necessarily. You're just going to do what's instructed for you to do. And I feel the same way is probably perpetrated in people in these programs to an extent to think the same way. This is a reason why they call it. cross-deck into these agencies because they still have the same structure. They still have the same type of orders that are given or things like that. Yes, you're more free thinking, but at the same time, you're also doing sort of the same work, but just in a different capacity. So if you're taking orders to say, hey, this, you know, whatever comes into range, take them out,

I don't think anybody's going to argue with that because the amount of pay that comes with this, and it says your only opportunity. And these guys get paid pretty good. Yeah, well, this isn't necessarily blaming the operators who are involved at all. No, and that's the thing is they're told one thing. Sure. Because the management level of these know what's going on to an extent. And this is where it comes into either they're doing this for their own personal benefit or their gain for the whatever group they control, i.e. through money, coercion of certain

things. But again, this is speculation. But at the same time, the facts are is that we are shooting them down. Yes, they are facts. And regardless of everybody out there says, I've not. never seen this happen. Well, yeah, you're not going to. You're not a part of these programs. You're not a part of anything that's going to get you into this because the people that are involved with this, they don't like to talk about it. They like to do the work and they do what's

required of them. They get paid a lot of money to do it. And some of the work, a lot of the work that they do is probably very fun. They probably get to do things that are not normal that nobody in this room gets to say that they get to do, right? Do you think, because you hear rumors of the psionic assets having sundowner syndrome or health, effects or whatever. And you get, I mean, I think this goes back to ancient esoteric practices. Correct. It's sort of this thing where if you're not of an extremely pure, you know, internally coherent state, then you get a reflection of the pain that's inside of you. You're going to manifest whatever you're projecting out there. I think that's realistic.

But what we're talking about is not like trying to summon a spirit. You're summoning essentially technology that has consciousness to it. Now, what's the distinct? Well, the differences is obviously if they're extraterrestrial that have a consciousness, they're coming from a different star system. That's what's different. Do we know that? We don't. This is the, now they may know that. Yeah. Based off of wherever, however they're interacting. Could this just be like an occult thing that's been going on for hundreds of years? How do you think they learn? How? Who? These groups, they learn from the occult. Sure. Interesting. The secrecy aspect of this is, you know, you have different

fraternities or secret societies. I mean, everybody knows I'm a Freemason. I've talked about it, but everybody speculates all because I'm a freemason. I'm a disinformation agent or something, or I'm a part of the New World Order. And then they see the SDG pin that I wear, which everybody says is the World Economic Forum. Sorry, I am too poor to be one of those guys, and I do not fit whatever they need. I think this is an important discrepancy to bring up to. When Jake discusses Skywatchers and some people on the Skywatchers team, the P3 assets are quite in

with what they do, they're happy, their former military or they're, you know, well-treated individuals. When we first did our interview early, in summer of 2024, what you knew at the time was that the P3 assets were essentially treated like trash, given drug cocktails to interface with the craft, treated like garbage. How does this bridge connect? So here's the thing is, I think there's speculation, because one of the things is because they're given drugs, is they're so you mean that they're treated like travis. What it does is it allows them to operate at a higher level of consciousness, even though there's some disassociation with it,

or if there's other trauma-related things that happen early on in their lives, or they induce it somehow. Granted, this is not what Jake's team does. The operators he has on this team do not do what may these legacy programs do. It's completely different. So everybody thinks that if Skywatchers participating in the same type of operation, his legacy, I hate to break it to you, it's not even remotely close. It's much more peaceful. It's much more informative and something that's going to be a little bit more transparent

compared to what legacy is doing. So it could have been a different program outside of Jakes that referred to the P3s as like pink acid. Well, that's what they call. That's what the program calls them or pink acid. What's pink acid? Biological equipment like cattle, right? Yeah, that's so that and that's always stood out to me. And that's granted, that is something that has been communicated to me. Yes, does some of the programs refer to them as that? Doesn't mean Jake thinks that that's the case,

or at least that's how he personally views these people because he doesn't view him that way. But this is what the program treats him like. Now, corporations out there are no different. Big corporations treat people like numbers. Okay, well, guess what? This guy died, so we have another person filling his spot and we can forget about it.

The military is the same way. It's just a constant rider of repeating the trainings and getting people in these roles. and then basically getting them up. If somebody gets out, they get in or they get killed, they get another person to fill the slot. So it's really no different from that, but in the same token, because it's so abstract,

that people want to lynch onto and say, oh, this is evil. Well, military is doing the same thing. Is there a way to do this that is above board? It brings up all these philosophical questions because it's like, I'm all for protecting the free world. And I do, like, the people who, like, you know, create some false equivalence

Right. You know, the way people live in domestic China right now in the U.S. As messed up as our country is, I think, you know, I'd much rather live here, and I'm all for protecting it. And so there are these game theoretic dynamics where I'm sure they're doing similar things. But then the meta-philosophical question is like we're talking about aspects of the sacred. And like, you know, I don't know what these beings are. You know, they could be angels. They could be really, you know, they could be demon.

I don't know what they are. Angels and demons don't need flying saucers to come here. Let's get that straight. So you think they're extraterrestrials? 100%. But if they're not bad, you're just baiting them and zapping them out of the sky? It's no different than if I was to have an exotic car driving through a bad neighborhood and they decided to shoot me and steal my car because it would be messed up for them to do.

That's exactly it. You want to talk about the ethical conflict here because that's really what it is. Right. This is the reason why Jake came forward, right? Because there's nothing that he was, there were things going on that he was. there were things going on that he was not a fan of. Right, because I think Greer has spoken about this, that when he spoke to Jake,

Jake relayed that craft were being down and he was deeply... He was bothered by that, 100%, especially with the P3 as the way they're treated. So, and his goal now is to just get them peacefully. Because, you know, there might be biologics in the crap. If that's the case, you are attorney possibly living biologics to dead biologics. Well, and that's what happens when they fall in the sky because they're subject to our laws of the universe

with inertia and gravity and all that kind of stuff. If we could peacefully commune with these things, that would be amazing. I think that's what Dr. Greer's whole CE5 initiative is all about, which I personally attended a few of them. Yeah. He invited me to because it's more like, I like to see things firsthand to see whether or not

there's anything credible. And yeah, Dr. Greer's CE5 is very real. It's very incredible. And it's something that I think a lot of people need to understand that that's not by any means false. But if you listen to the ancient traditional version of this stuff, it's always like you need to be 35, married, grounded.

Like you shouldn't like try to summon anything. Well, this is the thing as we're going off of interpretation. What one person's interpretation is not going to show the same as the other persons. Your interpretations are different than mine. Mine are different from yours and so on. It's just whatever you personally experience, whatever's been, your upbringing, whatever you believe in value-wise, is going to shape your narrative and what your thought process of a situation is. So if you're brought up on the more religious aspect of

things, then yes, you're going to think aliens are angels or demons. If you're somebody who's esoteric, you're going to say, okay, it's interdimensional or it's something that could be extra solar, right? But it depends on what your upbringing is and what you believe in herself of what it might be. But it doesn't mean it's correct. And so do you think these, things come down and then, you know, we're talking about this octagonal, eight-gone-shaped craft that seems to be possibly man-made. Material derived from what lands or gets zapped out of the sky then gets reverse engineered or implemented in these terrestrial exotic craft that we build. Is that right? To my understanding, that's exactly how it happens. From my understanding from what's been related to me

was that every craft that they recover, they also make reverse engineered versions of trying to replicate that technology or that specific craft. So this, I mean, Jake saw pretty much the same thing, except much smaller, that's something that was able to be lifted up by a helicopter. This fucking thing is estimated 300 feet.

I don't think his helicopter could pick something up that big. You know, so it'd take probably several helicopters, but in the same token. So you think what you saw was a reverse engineered man-made, version of what he saw because he locked on to possibly possibly because i mean again these there's different groups all over the world they're doing the same thing so yes there's multiple black sites that probably have p3s that are being used to lure craft out and then to shoot them down that was the most fascinating part of my jake interview is he was like who is we and i was like i don't know i

seem like the u.s or like whatever you know aerospace corporations he might be working for and and and and then he was like no we don't have shit yeah he's like he's like He's like it's black money. It was almost like it was like mafia wars and international, transnational corporations and interests, you know, across the world doing this stuff. And yeah, trying to investigate this subject,

particularly with the vehicle you saw, hits so many dead ends. I mean, it's been talked about publicly by Greer, but he always says that he knows the craft you saw, the souped up version of the Aiton that Jake retrieved is made by the Lockheets God Works in North of Brumman. He says that I myself have pressed into that

with, you know, where do you do art for him and say, where does he get this? Well, that's the thing is I think it's speculation. I mean, because unless you're physically working for these companies, you're not going to know what's what. I mean, he may be connecting the dots because he's talked to over a thousand other people

that may have been working for these programs and maybe have articulated something personally to him. I'm not entirely sure of because I'm not in Greer's head. What I will say is that this field offers a lot of speculation. and it offers a lot of confusion. Because really, at the end of the day, we only know what we experience personally. And what your interpretation of it

and how you tell the story is going to be different than what you say. Because here's the problem. Every time you retell the story, you're reframing it based off of memory as much as you can. So, yes, I understand that for myself with the story. There could be details I left out that I don't remember. there could be a certain thing, you know, so it's just going off of memory of what you

retell, you're reframing. So with Jake's incident, with him read Timing the event, I think it was, one of the things that is a little bit hard for me to accept is the fact that this, meaning back channeled from somebody in the programs, doesn't happen with anybody. It didn't happen to Hecker. It didn't happen to D.C. Long. It didn't happen to Stephen Dignan. It hasn't happened to anybody else I know.

And these are all witnesses who came forward with me. And some of them went on Sean Ryan. I'm the only one that has been corroborated with or by people. Why do you think they chose you specifically? Because they knew what I experienced because of what their personal involvement is with what they experienced. And that's kind of the thing of why he offered when I went out to go see him for the first time personally, not at the event, but just on a personal basis. to explain what I saw. And one of the things that was, you know,

because anybody can say that they're a part of something, right? But how do we really know? Well, when Jake took me on a nice little trip out to the desert, that was something that proved to me that this guy was legit. What did you see? I'm not gonna tell you. I can't talk about that. I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna burn Jake in the process.

Because I had given him my word that it was not going to do that. He could easily had me sign an NDA or, you know, originally they wanted to blindfold me and then just take it off and basically here you are, but that didn't happen. But you saw something cool and mind-blowing and

confirming of his prior... Personally, yes. Yes. Personally, yes. Are you at least able to say if this was above or below ground? I can't tell you. Gotcha. I'm not going to hint to either or because I just, you know, like I said, I don't want to burn Jake. Of course. He's the reason why

I've been included in certain aspects of this because for me, he wanted me to have first-hand experience with a lot of things that are about the subject. And he didn't have to do any of this for me. He could have just laid low. He could have just done his original job.

And I would have never seen. I would have never understood it. I could have been just labeled one of the crazy psychopaths that some people think I am. And that could have been it. Have you learned anything more about the fact that maybe we have reverse engineered working craft like this eight-gone craft in our possession that we've actually built and we know how to fly and that sort of thing.

This idea of alien reproduction vehicles, which check out GERB's channel. He does amazing work on and he talks about the Mark McCandler's story. Have you heard anything confirming of that? Yes, I have, but it's not something from Jake's side of the house, for example. It's more with other people that I've been in communications with. Anything you can share? Well, I mean, I can just say that they exist. Okay.

And I know where some of them are stored at, but that's about it. And do you think that the designs are copied or we derive material from the UFOs that come down? Or like, what's the... My understanding is that we don't necessarily replicate the same materials these things are made out of. What my understanding is we have the same, they can get them to look the same using materials we have on Earth. Probably even, you know, of course, who's to say that they probably replicate? the same materials to in a lab somewhere or they make them because they know what they're made of now because they've been doing this ever since the 40s and 50s they've been bringing these craft out

so it's like design inspiration or mimicry or something i think it's mimicry for the most part because if they get them to look you know something that looks at extraterrestrial but it's manmade and they want people to believe that then by all means they're going to do that the other implication is that we have propulsion modalities in our possession and we can we can work this stuff Yes, we can. That transcends chemical combustion and seems to break, you know, Newton's laws of conservation momentum and that sort of thing and leaves, you know, the trees unperturbed around, you know. Making no noises, nothing like that.

I mean, I mean, I'm a car guy, you know, so if there is like a fast car, you implement this kind of technology into, it'd be pretty incredible. It'd be very dangerous, but. Can we get any of this working civil side? Is that, is that a good aspiration? Let me, let me ask you. something, somebody who, let's just say you come up with something that could be very beneficial, but for you, you understand it can make you money or you can control people with it,

and it puts you on a playing field that's above everybody else. Nobody else has the same stuff you do, but if you're this person who's greedy and this person who likes the aspect of being able to do whatever you want, except you get to fold it into some people who make decisions, i.e. lawmakers, and you pay them a lot of money or you pay them money to basically steer clear, donate to their campaigns, and you basically are above the law, you can coerce politicians,

you can coerce military officials, generals, you name it, by just throwing them sacks of cash. Are you going to really want to share with everybody if you have the stranglehood on the most powerful country in the entire planet? I think most people wouldn't, but I'd like to think I would, But I don't know.

I mean, humanity. Or not necessarily on it. But isn't there a midpoint between those two things where you like you use it as leverage to get, you know, dictatorships abroad to reform and you black box it in certain ways that can't be reverse engineered? You don't dole it out in civil infrastructure. You still make the world a better place. But you also allow it to confer an advantage. Fiber optics and night vision and stuff like that, right?

So you believe the Philip Corso narrative. To an extent, I think that what's derived from it's real, but I don't, you know, his theory of how they were, you know, we have jetliners that can fly through a lightning storm, no problem, and very dead thunderstorms that have a lot of lightning and they get hit by it and nothing happens. So why is something that's not even from this planet or from a different civilization that's more advanced than we are, why is something going to be susceptible to a lightning strike? It's not. Do you know when we cracked gravity if this is using like electra-gravitic propulsion? Do you have any theories around? Well, just from what's been already disclosed, which is 1954. Okay.

We've had the hook on gravity control since then. And what was 54 specifically? Well, it's just from what Greer has alleged one of his teammates that was in a vault that saw the documents that talked about gaining that kind of control. Interesting. And this guy's been on the record several times. I don't know his name specifically, but he's been mentioned quite a bit. There's some experiment where we tied electromagnetism to gravity.

Based off of like even, for example, when they retrieved the stuff from Nazi Germany back in the 40s and then sent them over here with Operation Paperclip. Now, this can get into a whole different conversation. But they had some discs that they recovered. The Nazis did. The Nazis developed the stuff, but it wasn't stable. So when they brought them over here, of course, you were. had the best scientists who were already working on this kind of stuff that were able to amplify

it somehow. Now that you have the U.S. government backing you, giving you citizenship, basically giving you right to do whatever you want because they need your help. And this is how NASA was created because it was a German who created this. It was also the CIA and the FBI were created by these people too. Yeah, everything you're saying now, I can tell you it was definitively factual. It's not conspiracy. It's not conspiracy. Warren von Braun, Arthur Rudolph, basically the NASA Saturn project was a transplantation

of the Nazi space program. And then you had Richard Mehta, Victor Schauberger, you know, a lot of these guys, Henry Kowanda, who are working on lenticular aerodyne saucers. Either they moved over to the U.S. or in Mita's case, I believe he, there's speculation. He worked on the Averick Car Project, the Canadian version. Schauber, I know the Army Counterintelligence Corps tricked into giving all of his propulsion, exotic propulsion stuff to the U.S., and that made it actually to Brookhaven National Labs,

which is Nick Cook. So that even brings up the question, like, did we even really win World War II if that happened? If we took the brightest minds, the top military leaders of the Third Reich, and brought them here, and they basically got into positions of power and influenced our government and created intelligence agencies, which they wanted to replicate in Nazi Germany, we are living present day of what they wanted to accomplish back in the 40s. Now, I speak fluent German. I know a lot about German history. Yeah. And I know for a fact that... This is like this Philip K. Dick, man in the High Castle narrative,

but like an undercover version or something where... So what... So if they infiltrated our highest ranks, which they sort of did, but do you think they sort of maintained Nazi allegiances? Well, look at what happened with Ukraine. This is what people don't talk about. Look at them waving Nazi flags.

A lot of the people that went out of Nazi Germany went and occupied that area. There's Nazis here. I mean, look at some of the prisons and stuff like the Aryan gangs. but yes, there's societies that have Nazi influence in them. I can tell you for a fact. So what Hitler wanted to achieve was a militarized police force.

What do we have now? A militarized police force. We have basically health care, some free health care. They have some sort of system for education, which is what they wanted to do. They wanted to basically put a ban on smoking a whole lot because they wanted healthier people. And it was funny because even as a Freemason,

one of the things that Hitler despised was us, as Freemasons because of the secrecy that we have in the way that we do rituals, which, you know, is nothing spectacular to an extent because it's just tradition. But one of the things that he liked was how we kept things very secret and very word of mouth, i.e., what we call a pass in the grip. So a password, and then a grip is obviously a handshake, depending on what degree you are to demonstrates what kind of grip you will give. And then, of course, there's some grips that you give in the public, and there's grips that you give, only behind the doors. of a lodge. No, I mean, yeah, like Werner von Braun, Rudolph Hess, Hemler, all these guys were really interested in the occult. Everybody on that top level was because that's, so part of this council form relations was something that helped set up the CIA. Yeah. Well,

do you think most of these people that were in the CFR at the time, they were people who were read into the occult or participated in themselves in some of these societies? That's how they learned the secrecy in these programs was based off of these. organizations that know how to keep things compartmentalized that should sound familiar. So they keep people segmented and then they basically bring people under those segmented parts to basically stay in their lane. This is how you have different divisions and different things that people work on that basically integrate into a bigger picture. You're almost implying that they're like control systems that go deeper than just,

you know, NDAs and this is your direct-to. Very much so. That is the truth. And this is has happened for thousands of years. This is no different. The only difference is that people who exist today are taking the influence from the past and still implementing it. So when the next person steps in line, they get to do the same thing and basically keep it going the same way. Then it never changes. The only thing that changes is when you have people like Jake, for example, who come forward and expose what their personal experiences are and basically try to not necessarily shatter the secrecy, but they want certain parts of the secrecy to be out so that way humanity can benefit. I don't have a problem with that. What do you guys think is like, because disclosures

in this very interesting place now where I feel like it's made kind of a quantum leap forward and then mainstream society. I mean, a lot of this stuff came out around the inauguration. Yep. And if you look at like what's happening in the White House and with U.S. aid and like Doge, like most people are concerned with that. And they don't give a shit. UFOs. And then you have UFO world where they're like, we have a guy who came out who said he retrieved a crowd firsthand. And it's like they're on an island. Like from the rest of the rest society doesn't, there's some dark matter between them. That's like undetectable. So where does disclosure go from here? And is there like an aspirational, you know, good place for it to go directionally?

Well, let me, let me ask you something. So everybody understands how the government is astray these days, right? Yeah. So you have all these moving parts and people don't know what they're doing. or they do know what they're doing, but there's just so many different things that are developing within the government right now. Do you think, realistically, pulling these technologies from these black programs and putting them into the hands of people

who don't know what the fuck they're doing is a smart move? No, it's not Willie Nill. Not like, you know, yeah. This is why amnesty and this is why this needs to get more transparent, at least for a government side. Now, some of the free energy tech we could benefit from,

But as far as the craft or being able to fly, that can stay top secret. And it can just be like, yeah, we know nuclear weapons exist or thermonuclear weapons. We don't know how they work, but we know they exist. It can be the same way. Shouldn't that be the right analogy where it's like nuclear physics versus nuclear trade secrets? Correct. Where it's like, obviously, yeah, we shouldn't let trade secrets that. But as far as the physics, it should be open to it.

I can tell you personally that I don't think the government would even have any kind of first indication on how to manage these programs. They're not going to know what to do with it. If they're so, and this is the problem, to your face, they're going to tell you they're all about the right motives or doing the right thing for this country. But when push comes to shove and they don't want to do a fucking thing about it, they're going to put people, oh, it's my political career I give a shit more about. Well, Congress has an 11% approval rating. I've always thought one of the most overrated versions of disclosure is having congressional oversight. I think a lot of these guys don't know their asses from their foreheads. No, they know. As far as the public understanding basic ontological truths and benefiting to the extent they can

from the tech, I mean, that feels like a clear net good. What you and I have is an expectation for the government as much different than what they have for themselves. Their expectations is I get to go home every night, I get to check my bank account and make sure I'm getting paid the same funding I got last year or if not more and that their reputation still sticks around as I'm senator so-and-so and I'm this cool person because I'm in government. Yeah.

I mean, it's an oligarchy. It's special interests, run the entire thing. These people are not powerful at all. This group that has this kind of stuff is way more powerful than them. So these guys on Capitol Hill that think that their shit doesn't think,

I hate to break it to you guys. You guys are pawns. Do you not, but so you think that the UFO legacy programs are almost like break away power fiefdoms that have leverage over the federal government? Oh, yeah, they have more money than our government. Are you kidding?

So you think, like, Like with this transition, do these UFO programs automatically roll up to Trump? Or are they their own thing? They're going to be their own thing because here's a thing. Trump's not going to know what to do with this because most of the people on Capitol Hill don't believe in this shit. And some of the ones that do are very far and few between. But Trump has to know that this stuff is real.

You don't think so? But his son on his podcast interviewed Ross Colthart before Ross Colthart broke the Jake story. And I'm just reading between the lines and speculating. Let me let me break it to you. you. Yeah. I've had meetings with some of these people in Trump's administration. I can, I can back it up because I got photographic evidence. And I participate in a lot of meetings in Washington because of what I'm able to provide them as far as a little bit of advice, but a little bit more like personal experience. Okay. They will say it, yes, they're interested

into it, but when their political careers come up, because now they're going to be thought of in that cases. Every single person in this field is thought of that. That's the stigma. Until you have somebody like Trump, for example, he's more fixated on things that are more short-term. Yeah. That can be a long-term thing, which is great. I'm not bashing that.

I think his approach of trying to clean up the government is great because what happens is now they start seeing funding go in different directions that's not known. When that's apparent, that is going to basically say, where is this money going to? Then you're going to have people like Jake knocking on the door saying, I know exactly. where that's going to, and it's going to these programs. Well, what are these programs centered around? Well, NIH technology or reverse engineered and all this kind of stuff. So it could segue into it.

What's going to happen with disclosure is not an overnight thing. This is going to be something that has to take a few generations for people to understand, because this is, unfortunately, how fast humans learn. You know a lot about the money flow of all this stuff. You want to just talk about that a little bit? I got to say I fully agree with you guys that disclosure probably will come from the Congress. I mean, look at Kirk McConnell, the staffer for Senator Jillibrand on the Senate Armed Services Committee. Since 2017, he has been pulling witnesses, talking to witnesses, and briefing his senator.

He's great. He knows a lot. I know. I know. I talked to him in a skiff. Okay. So you spoke to him directly firsthand. Yeah. So he's a good guy. Yeah, because at Seoul, he was asked by a couple individuals if he had heard of a blue-on-blue firefight team with a Lockheed retrieval team and about, you know, transporting humans in reverse engineered craft. And he said both he had heard. Yes. So definitely you have talked to him. So that sounds like maybe the craft is Lockheed. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But as far as the money, I mean, I agree that this is probably like a black programs or breakaway projects. I think most of these operate in DOD laboratories or various

MRTFBs major range test facility bases. A lot of these have underground locations. This cash flow is generally moved through FFRDCs, federally funded research and development centers, or UARCs, university-affiliated research centers. And this is so the federal government can, those who know when the federal government can engage with legacy programs operations through these FFRDCs and UARCs to make joint USG and contractor programs, the block programs as we think of them. Give us a few big examples of FFRDC. MIDER, RAND, Center for Naval Analysis, the IDA, Institute for Defense and,

How much money do these organizations? Get tons. And there's something called Crystal City. Do we have a sense of like, because like, yeah, what's Crystal City? Sir. Crystal City is a location just south of the Pentagon in Washington, D.C. That is where pretty much all of the biggest defense contractors are. It's in Arlington, right? Yeah. Yeah. You have the aerospace corporation. You have the IDA. You have the CNA, the Center for Naval analyses. And I really think the amount of money that's moved can't really be tracked because I myself have talk to witnesses who have seen cash moved, like physical bails of cash taken to locations.

Most of the transactions are in cash. And this is something that most, even people I've talked to have talked about that that's how they do things. Everything's self-funded in that regard, right? So if you have a program that you can benefit off of siphoning funds from the government, right, tax dollars, that get allocated to that. But then you don't have to tell people what you're specifically doing. It just say, yeah, it's going to this program and we need $6,000. billion for it, right? So then when it gets to a point of them actually generating own revenue by themselves, they still need that lifeline of government funding because then it gives them a purpose because the government gives them the legal authority to do so. If the government was like,

you know what, we know what you guys are doing is bullshit, we're going to go ahead and cut off funding. Well, they're still making money, but that's the thing that they'll discover is how they're making money, which is not an illegal sense, right? Because they're still kept from the government. you're using tax dollars to generate programs, which then can generate revenue, which then enrich certain people's lives or they use it to replicate technologies, if you will. So essentially, if they figure out everything they're doing is illegal, then guess what? They're not going to risk it. So what are they going to do?

They're going to continue lying to everybody on Capitol Hill. And because some of these senators and politicians are also read into this, but at least maybe they're getting, hey, I'll give you a couple million for a campaign. Just don't look over here. Right. It happens all the time. Yeah. Well, you have, you know, Congressman Mike Turner who represents the district that Wright

Pat is in, Wright Patterson, which is the center of all the UFO lore and reverse engineering, back to Roswell. And I believe his top three donors are Boeing, Lockheed, and maybe I'm getting the third one, Raytheon, you know, some... It's Raytheon. It is Raytheon. And he basically was... helped nix the eminent domain clause well you know as part of all i'll explain why that happened

all right now everybody thinks oh shit that sucked and you know that we didn't get anything out of that yes we did we understand that it's always going to be one step forward two steps back we're going to figure out what's going on and who's a part of what when that was gutted and who opposed it was basically saying hey we're the ones that oppose it now we know who's a part of it it. So ideally, having them nix, that was a good thing because they exposed themselves to us. Now we know what to look for and who to look for. Right. So it wasn't a bad thing. It was expected, but it was a good thing because now we know who's in charge of what. And Turner's out now, which is cool. And I think he was out because they figured it out what he was doing to an extent,

not necessarily with UAP, but just with other programs, right? Do we have a sense of yearly, but like if the NDAA National Defense Authorization Act, basically our defense budget yearly, is like 800, 900 billion. Do you have a sense of how much of that is UFO or is UFO off the books and is it even greater than that? I mean, probably off the books, but there's one example of specific monetary value I can't talk about. So I covered once a witness, co-named Ed, who talked of a joint reverse engineering program between the Nevada test and trade range in Edwards Air Force Base to highly prolific, prolific locations, done a a ton of analysis all new, but this individual, he, after his time of the Air Force, he went on to work for the Pentagon for the research, development, test, and evaluation panel chain for the Air Force. It was here during the span of, I think, 2012 to 2016. He spoke of $34 billion and

$40 billion being scrubbed from the books for non-transfer of authority funds for the Air Force in respected years. I'm not sure which year is the 34 and which year is the 40, but just wiped off the books. And then, but then you, simultaneous to all of this. you know, if we're talking about octagonal-shaped crafts that can use electrogravityx, it's like China and Russia are like eating our lunch, as far as I know, on hypersonics. And so, so like, how do you kind of square those? I will say this.

And hypersonics are associated with the same contractors that are associated with this issue. Yeah, so it's always this question of like, have we actually just stagnated and this is just like some softening of the enemy sort of, you know, narrative or whatever. Yeah. I had an interesting meeting on Capitol Hill, and one of the things that was brought up by a particular gentleman who knows of what's going on. I'm not going to say who he is. What he was able to figure out and provide us during that meeting was Russia and China have their own retrieval teams of non-human intelligence. And they have their own technologies, reverse engineered.

And they're pretty much on par with what we're doing. And it's to the point to where we, as in the United States, assets that deal with this, have gentlemen's agreement with both countries to say if we target and shoot down NIH, whatever team gets their first gets the prize. Whatever team gets their second has to wave off. Whoa. And this person's a pretty high place in the government. So the fact that that was established, because that was a theory of mine, it's like,

we can't be the only people that have this in this country. But it's not even just these countries. It's this organization, which is transnational. They just happen to exist in other countries that are doing the same stuff we do here. Do you think that this could bring us together? I mean, you have rumors of, like, you know, Reagan and Gorbachev. This isn't even a rumor. Mikhail Gorbachev says in an interview with Charlie Rose

that he was sitting with Reagan at some like UN event or something. And Reagan, you know, whispers over in his ear, he says, if the United States were attacked. by someone from outer space. Would you help us? I said no doubt about it. He said, we too. And so like, do you think there's any hope of this not being this sort of game theory dynamic,

but actually sort of, you know, creating kind of peace between the nations, or is that just totally naive? I think the only way that we're going to get full disclosure is if we are peaceful to each other. I think if everybody puts their fucking source, down and understands that we have a bigger problem to deal with here and it's bigger than ourselves. This is the only way we're going to gain ground. The problem with this field, if you want to call UFOs or a community, right, I don't even consider me a part of it. I'm just somebody who saw something fucking crazy and here you go. So there's so much division. There's so many factions

with this where everybody thinks that, oh, this person's right, this person's wrong or this doesn't make sense or this makes sense. If everybody was to understand that we're all trying to do the same thing and we all group together, we could get so much further along with this. But everybody's like, oh, I hate this person because of this or I heard this about this person. So, you know, he doesn't contribute anything. We have to be uniting together to make this happen. Yeah. And it's the problem. I don't think it will ever happen unless everybody puts their damn swords down. Yeah. The quote unquote UFO community, which I say I think it's so cringe-worthy.

But it's like, it's the most like, it's like a reality TV show. It's just this weird. It's a lot of it. I try to stay out of all of it, but it's so bizarre. I don't even pay attention to it because it's just, you know what? I got more important shit to deal with, such as either having these

meetings or trying to gain ground on this. Yeah. That's more my focus. I don't give a shit what other people say in this community. It's just like, you guys, they can criticize people so, easy. Yeah. But if they were ever called to go on Capitol Hill to like talk, they would never do it. None of them would. Do you feel like people have ever tried to co-op to you, given your story? Because I mean, you signed something basically with this Air Force, you know,

lieutenant colonel where it's like your life is under threat if you say something. Well, now that they've passed these laws, I mean, that doesn't apply. Uh-huh. And, you know, I have had some blowback. You know, I've had, I've had harassment. I haven't had direct threats that I'm aware of, but other people have heard things, but I can't confirm that. But one of the instances, so when I testified to Arrow in April of 2023, after that trip, I started having these helicopters hover over my house or my dad's residence, for example, or over my business. What sort of helicopters?

Some of them, most of the time are Blackhawks. And there's one particular, CH-47, which is a dual-roader helicopter. It's Army variant that doesn't matter where I'm at in the city. If I move to a different area, it pops up there. Really? And this has been, and it's weird because you can, I have Flight Rader 24 where I can track these because this is, you know, I had referenced this to Jake almost several years ago,

explaining that this is what kind of harassment. There's other people in the government as well that were having harassment like that happened to them too. And partially, I think that's why there's, why we can't rely on government to do disclosure because once they figure out what they're up against, they're not going to do that. Something that has much more money than them,

has their own private military, has their own assets, they're more cutting edge than compared to what we've got. I mean, but it's a symbiotic relationship because we need these contracting companies to help build stuff for our defense programs, which the government needs, because this is what helps us keep as a superpower in this country,

but it also curbs terrorism. It curbs wars that we could have in any other part of the world. We need them. So if we're to gut them from what they do best, and that basically weakens us as well, because we need these companies to come up with our next, you know, Generation 7 fighter jet whenever that comes out, or a new, you know, tank or new medical systems for military or whatever it is that they do. So gutting them would be something that would basically... So you think they're actually producing a lot of innovation?

Because, like, society at large is stagnated when it comes to tech. Society has, but look at the military, it's much more advanced because that's your focus. That's the war machine. So if they don't have a war. But it also goes back and forth. Like you hear these stories of like, you know, nuke's operating off floppy disks, you know, the story in like I think it was like 2017 or something. Yeah, I talked about that. It was something I found out personally was that they keep it archaic because it's harder to hack.

You can't, if you have a signal that goes up top side. So that's intentional. That's intentional. Norad operating offline. So no system is. Uh-huh. That's why they do it that way. And some of these black sites work the same way.

Okay. So, you know, whatever has to understand is black sites operate independently. Yes, they get funding from the government with some research and development programs that they do. But they operate entirely by themselves. It's almost like its own country. They got their own people to manage these things like these refugees they get from these other countries that they screen for P3 that don't make the cut. Well, they have them as janitors, cooks, you know, people to maintain these facilities.

For every single operator, you're going to have 20 personnel that are going to basically support that operator that are in these facilities, if that makes sense, such as a medical officer, whatever that is, an admin people, payroll, if you will. So there are people essentially missing all over the world? Are these people willfully signing up to be psionic assets, or in certain cases, are they being rounded against their world? They're signing up to my understanding. This is what I've been told over and over again is that they volunteer for it. Okay. Well, they get paid well. If you're in a country where you don't get that much money and you don't get to do anything cutting edge, but you have a skill set that could be used in a, it could be in a positive way. Granted, we're not in these programs, so we don't understand really what they do. But if they were to do something that's fun that they put their skills to, they're going to do it. You know, anybody who's got the skills to do that. And so you're saying their family might be taken along to work as logistics and maintenance and so forth. Potentially, but I can't confirm that because, you know, I haven't talked to a P3 refugee from a, you know, that was, oh, yeah, my family came with. No, I've never heard of that. But then again, I would say it's entirely possible. If they're going to take the people that are essentially going to make them money or give them technologies and why not? Are there gifted and talented education programs in the U.S. that work as feeders to, like a CFO program?

That I cannot. I don't know that personally. I have heard it from multiple people. I know people who claim that they were a part of that, but I can't personally talk about it because I have no idea. Do you know anything about this? I only know one individual, and that is Jordan, who has talked about working on programs and being in gay programs as a kid. He's the only individual I know.

And it was interesting to see him come forward with Skywatchers. So I always knew him by his previous suit in Martin. So I'm interested to hear more from him about that. What do you guys think about, arrow generally. This is the all domain anomalies resolution office. I understand it was a front for basically sifting through information and plucking people to figure out what they know and then either trying to shut them up or just publicly dismiss the person, you know, like I did with anybody that testified. You know, they misconstrued all our stories. What I understand now is that

the director there is really hell bent on getting the right information. Now granted. So do you like the, this is John Kozlowski, who is formerly of the National Security Administration and National Security Agency, sorry. And before that, you had Kirkpatrick who like, I don't know, one person in this world who likes, you know, I think most people think he was sort of. Anybody who's associated with them, of course, are going to like them because I'm pretty sure they're getting paid the same. But, you know, that's just what it is. They're going to stick up for their own guy. But so most people think, I think Kirkpatrick's sort of a bad faith actor. And then Kozlowski, the verdict's still out. but you think maybe there's hope? From what I've heard from people dealing with him on a personal level

that he's for the right issue. Okay. It was yet to be seen, but we will see. I mean, like I've said, and Jake Stevens said the same thing. You'll know them by their deeds. And if they start doing good things, then that could potentially bring us something to good. But if they start doing things that we're not approving or, you know,

that's not going to help with what we're trying to do, then I would say it's definitely somebody that we need to consider not even involving. Yep. You know, I think, the hardest part is figuring out who's going to be on the right side of history with this. Yeah. What do you, like, how do you position yourself now to be on the right side of history? I mean, clearly just by coming out, in my opinion, I think you're showing courage and on the right side of history. But on a go-forward basis now that you're kind of implicated in the topic, how do you position?

I mean, if I had a job around this where I could contribute and bring the answers and basically provided the public that this is, is real, I would enjoy that. It's much more interesting. Business-wise is always interesting, but it ebbs and flows. And the fact is, you know, when I have these meetings in D.C. And with important people, it kind of like, it always fuels my fire because I get to contribute in a sense to actually help people understand what they should be looking for. And so when I get invited to partake in those meetings, and I just like, okay, this is,

this is cool. I get to meet very interesting people. I get to meet people I never think I'd ever meet because most people see these people on TV and it's like, oh yeah, there's this person here, you know, he's a part of the administration or he's doing this. So I think if I can contribute in a sense it's positive, I think that that's what I can die leaving this earth knowing that I tried to help get us somewhere better. Because all I want from this is just for us to be better, for us to have these technologies that we could live a lot longer, we can live happier, we can be healthier, and we can be more knowledgeable and can be at a higher consciousness. Do you think that these technologies will ever come out and, you know, we'll get it?

Some of them are. There's some rumors and speculation from some reputable people. I know that that's what they're trying to do. And it's more medical-based technologies. Like what? So it's scalar technologies, right? So this device essentially all. All they do is if you're not there presently, they use a photo of you. And it has to just be like a symmetrical photo of your face. And they did this with my dog, for example, because he would, like I said, he was diagnosed with some sort of bladder mass that they thought was cancerous. And then this scan, it hits the body with around 886,000 different frequencies to up to

1.2 million frequencies. And then what it does is when one of those frequencies registers or pings, that specific ping tells you that you have this specific ailment. With this specific element, it also talks about specific frequencies that can terminate that specific cell. And it can do this remotely via a photo. Correct. Now, the caveat to this is that they could kill people the same way by manifesting harmful cells like fast-dasting cancers. Does that sound familiar?

Have you ever heard whistleblowers or people trying to come forward that got hit with this kind of shit to get them to shut up or it kills them pretty quick? You might know better than me. James Allen, the documentarian of Mark McCandlish and the Flexliner Story. He was diagnosed and dead of an aggressive form of cancer in about three weeks. Do you think that that was caused by some sort of remote scalar weapon? I'm more interested in the fact his autopsy said he was poisoned with heavy metals. So that almost sounds more prosa, like more like, you know, conventional or something. But have you, so you've heard it, you know specifics of people having been hit with cancer.

Yeah, but I can't talk about the people associated with. on that because I don't want to. Okay. That's scary. It is scary. This is a problem. Is it bullets and stuff like that are archaic? They don't need that shit.

These weapon systems that they have that they can turn into weapon systems with scalar manifesting growths and cancers into your, or they can fuck with your eyesight. They could fuck with your brain. You know, that's very real stuff. So when they are able to use this technology in a good sense, there's always going to be somebody who's bad who wants to use the same technology in a harmful way. which is why it's not public. And, you know, it's not like these people that use it,

that I know that have used it on me are like greedy people, but they cure a lot of people. And sometimes they cure a lot. I've seen... So you think that technology is going to be these scalar wave healing technologies might be exfiltrated? Well, yeah, there's always a flip side to everything. In order to have good, you have to have bad.

This is what people to understand. Nothing's always ever good and nothing's always ever selling bad. All tech is dual use. Correct. A.I. Well, car, right? I need to go to the store and do this. Some guy looks at it as like, you know, I'm going to go run over 30 people. Yeah, yeah, nuclear free energy or nuclear bomb or, you know, it's the same thing with this technology, you know. It just depends on what the person wants to utilize it with. A knife that can cut food for you so you don't choke to death.

Or is the same person who's going to go think ill of it and go stab a bunch of people? It is interesting when you say like the remote, there's this guy Joe Dispenza that does like, you know, self-actualization work. And it's always like, you know, you have these like remote healings and like people concentrate on a photo and stuff. And I, you know, I don't know what to make of it. I don't know what to make of either, but I know this device was pretty crazy, but it's great. And, you know, so the type of frequencies and when, so here's the thing that's cool about it. So the frequencies that it pings and then it suggests, you know, because it goes down to your DNA, but then it goes all the way to the atoms and molecules that make up your body.

and then it can also detect things that haven't manifested yet, and it can curb that. So for me, for example, I didn't tell them my medical history, but when they did the scan on me, they found out everything about me that I never told them. Really? And I didn't even know this about myself. My dad's, you know, I was born with very thick blood,

and so I needed a transfusion when I was born. My dad's like, yeah, you've had thick blood ever since. That showed up on the scanner. You showed it too. Because the reason why I showed up because the way that my arteries and veins are working harder because of having to pump the thick blood. And then you talked about it with your dad.

You didn't even know. I didn't even know. He told me, he's like, yeah, well, you know, I told him, well, they said that I had thick blood. And he says, yeah, you've had thick blood since you're a baby. You had to get a transfusion. And that's the reason why my arteries and veins and capillaries. They're definitely like quacky versions of this that exist commercially right now.

There is, and it's called energy enhancement systems, which are, you know, so you stand by these screens or sit by these screens and the frequencies they hit you with are supposed to be of healing frequencies. I have yet to do that. I can't say if it's legitimate. It may be there's people I know that have had that done, but with this particular device, it's something that I really hope to God that this comes out.

Because... I mean, you're saying there is a plan to exfiltrate it for commercial... For commercial use. Yes, there is. But then you're getting into something that's like alternative medicine is what this will fall under because Western medicine is so heavily involved with FDA. and having to do things regarding that and with what they said.

Wouldn't this theoretically take out big pharma? That's why they don't want to help. Can you live forever on this thing? Are there people in the UFO program or are going to live to 300? I mean, the person that, one of the people that exist today, and I don't know who they are, they're probably on the first already part of living forever

in our world right now because of what the technologies. That is a possibility. Well, I would love to understand this stuff better because it seems so prima facie, absurd. But I also do, you know, I'm interested in this stuff and there's, you know, you can turn molecular mass into frequency. That's not at all woo-woo to say in physics or biology. And every, you know, if you did take almost like a bank of like this organ should be operating

at, you know, whatever optimum frequency, you could probably tune it. There's a field called cymatics. Correct, correct. Where you're very right. You can create, you know, sand structures in like these vibrational plates. Yep. And so you could theoretically. And we know that cellular.

communication occurs via voltage gated ion channels and so you can the the field there is a bioelectric field to everybody these are all sort of facts and so theoretically with acoustics and electromagnetic fields you could affect bodily functions how you do that in a precise way to heal people that feels very hard for me to understand well it's hard for me to understand because again like i said it was only exposed to this so the first scan took 12 12 and a half hours. I was in this chair and they were sitting there working like literally overnight. And you're sure this isn't really good counterintel, like the subway order? No, this is not a good counterintel. This was something that I, that I was, that was used on me

in a sense to one built trust with this particular person, but also to understand that this is something that is real and it's something that can benefit humanity. I'm more interested in that. I don't, you know, yeah, the UFO stuff's cool because they fly. The medical shit, the stuff that we could also do with this technology is going to be far more advanced. Even with consciousness, I mean, that's more mind-blowing than just watching a craft fly. I'm sorry, but, you know, people are so enamored with those. But it's like, that's the boring part of it. Jake's even said the same thing. Yeah, totally. Yeah. You know, so when I, so the first treatment was 12 hours of hooked to this. So I fell asleep. They gave me stem cells in the same process and exosomes,

which was good. They also took my blood because it was thick. So they put under a microscope to see how thick it is. It's pretty thick, but, you know, being on hormone replacement therapy and having to do blood dumps and stuff like that is what I keep up with it. Plus, they told me to take baby aspirin 181 milligrams or micrograms, if you want to call it that daily to help with it. So I didn't even know that. I said I had osteoporosis. Well, I don't drink milk. I hate milk. I mean, I like stuff that has milk like cheese and ice cream, but it hates me. So, yeah, some days it's worth it. Some days it's not. So it knew that about me. There was a bunch of other things that it said, you know,

that it was able to detect. And you've never seen the machine. I have never seen the machine. This was last year, late February, early March. But you felt it healed your dog? And did it heal something with you? It healed something with me. I had parasites.

I didn't even know because I started getting like very bad heartburn. My stomach, like I was, my appetite was shit. I couldn't eat. And I was wondering what it was. I was like, okay, well, I need to take this. medication and it didn't make it any better. Then when I got the skin and I got rid of the parasites, because it listed three different types.

And you felt better immediately? I felt like I was like 20 years old again. Whoa. And this was happened over a week. So part of it, so 12 hours of the first one, roughly six hours, the second one, and then the destruction sequence that they do using these frequencies to target the parasites and to kill off the bad cells took about four and a half hours. What they also do on this device is they program purified water, because water is water,

itself if you look through ancient history also as a conductor for the body just like anything else in our life so they program this water and then basically you ingested twice a day morning and evening there's no medications they didn't have to cut me open they didn't have to do any of that and everything that they scanned me of was resolved can i speak to these people i can get you in touch with these people it's only word of mouth so don't put their information out if they decree to it but they'll ask you questions and they will basically you know they want to know who you are first again which if you You're Jesse Michaels. Everybody knows who you are in this. And I'm sure they do too.

So with my dog, like I said, my dad took him to the vet because I gave him to my dad when I was competing because I had a full-time job and then having to train for a show, which took about four to five hours a day on top of a 12, 13-hour job. It was not fair to my dog. So I gave him to my dad. So my dad took him to vet and they said that he had a bladder mass and it was looking like cancer. So they're like, yeah, you're going to go to an oncologist to figure out what it is. He didn't want to do that. So I told my dad, I said, hey, this isn't going to sound fucking nuts. But hear me out.

So I explained a little bit to him, at least what he understands. And so I got in touch with these people and said, hey, dog is not looking too good. Can you guys do anything with animals? And they said, yes, they can do cats and dogs right now in humans. They're trying to do other, you know, like bovine, for example, or horses is something they may be able to do at some point because they're always refining. And I don't know how they do this. So they told me to take a, I told my dad, send me a picture of his face, you know, as a very recent photo. So I did that.

My dad had told me within a matter of weeks because I started giving him this other stuff that they have, which is like a blue, it's like a nano blue, for example. So what this blue stuff does is that you ingest it and it starts to basically kill all the bacteria and viruses inside your body. So it makes it easier for this treatment to take effect as well. So I told my dad, I said, yeah, give him him one ML in the morning every day, and then they're going to do the treatments. So they did about four or five treatments on him. Said he wasn't looking too good, but then they started doing the more treatments with this blue. And he was, when he would urinate, it was very small because his bladder was taken out. Now he'll sit there forever just trying to get everything out.

There was no surgery involved. Like I said, he had cloudy eyes because he's getting old. they got rid of all that. He's like a puppy again. And his appetite is still the same. You know, he was, some days he wasn't feeling too good where he was, didn't want to move. I mean, because he's 13, 14 years old almost. Now it's a different story.

And knowing that this exists, my grandma was basically like my mom to me. And she raised me. She ended up dying from pancreatic cancer. That was a stage where when they found it. If I could, if I would have known about this, then somebody like her I could have had helped and they could have done something about it. Now granted,

talking about curing cancer is very iffy and it also depends and obviously what side of the fence you sit on. I know from my experience with what it did for me and what it did for my dog completely cured us, I do not doubt that this would be something that could help people that are literally losing

our lives over illnesses. And the reason for not putting this out super publicly like right now is the deal with. use implications dual use but also the FDA of this technology exists and with these people it could really be profound and change this but you have big pharma that's more interested in getting this money and that's the thing that upset me with COVID because obviously per diagnosis these doctors are getting somewhere from 16 to 30 grand per fucking diagnosis it's like yeah so of course there's

incentive for you guys to literally mark everything as COVID yeah so anybody in the medical industry if you're going to do the right thing start thinking on an ethics this is the problem with this world today. It's because of greed. It's because of the incentives that people get and it's because people want to be selfish about it. And the overlap in financial interest between big pharma and big food is extremely high. That's why I want RFK to do what he's doing. I have the same. Well, I think the FDA, like, you know, it governs both food and drugs. And on the food side, it's extremely laissez-faire and loose. And so, like, you have all these, like, chemicals that are allowed in our food, things like glyphosate, you know, which are probably autoimmune or cancer

causing. They're like, glyphosate is very close to Agent Orange. It's just horrible for you. And we have all these things that are allowed in the U.S. that are banned in Europe. Yep. And so on that side, on the food side, we're very lazy fair. And then on the drug side, once people get extremely sick and the big pharma companies are profiting off of, you know, these biochemical solutions for, you know, whatever their ailments are,

it's extremely hard to get new drug innovation or anything passed through the FDA. So like this side is then super strict. When you should be throwing the Hail Mary because you're already really sick, the restriction should be very wide. It should actually be like, let's try electromagnetic, whatever, you know, because, you know, sound healing, whatever. But then, so you can't pass anything by the FDA here, and then here everything goes to make you sick.

So it's just completely perverted. Well, and that's the thing. So if they're working in hand-in-hand trying to make more patients, because guess what, a patient cured is a patient lost. Yeah, totally. They lose money off that. So, of course, I'm going to keep people sick. Do you guys think more whistleblowers will come out and the consensus will shift on this topic?

Because it feels like even shows like podcasts like, you know, Joe Rogans, which traditionally have covered this stuff, I think when it was less sort of like less activity was involved and it was like easier to make sense of because there were a few kind of hot button stories that you either had an opinion on for or again those like bobblyzar or whatever and now they're like i think extremely confused they feel like the zone is being flooded and like my basic understanding based on the way he speaks on his podcast is like he's kind of like suspicious of like the whole he should he should be i'm not saying like you know every whistleblower is got to be trusted i mean there's people out there trying to get rich i get it they're trying to find a livelihood if so be it you're

going to be found out yeah but the same time yes be skeptical what the thing with it too is that these people really need to put egos aside. This is part of the reason why we have this problem. Everybody on Capitol Hill thinks they know what the fuck's going on because they're Senator or so-and-so or they're the president or their Secretary of Defense or all this. You guys are removable ponds that are going to have an expiration of your terms

and they're going to go living your normal life and some other person is going to step into your point. They're going to do the same thing you're doing. So it's really just interchangeable people. This is the reason why secrecy exists because they would rather have people who are permanently involved, stay at that level. instead of just having somebody interchanged, right?

Two or two or three terms you're out. Or, you know, as a president, you're not going to know much because you're going to literally just go out and do whatever you're going to do after becoming the president. So who is, if there's this sort of shadow government vis-a-vis these UFO programs, who's the president of that? Or is it? Somebody that nobody knows.

Okay. And is somebody that has a hell of a bank role that nobody could ever understand or imagine. Okay. And they probably more than likely do not live in this country because if they were smart, they'd be somewhere else. Do you have any? He'd be that's always about it.

We hypothesize somebody like Dick Cheney. Yeah. Well, he, but he would be... Top of the pyramid, not... Yeah, no, but Dick Cheney would be the representative of, like, something else. It's gonna be somebody that nobody knows. That's never...

Nobody knows their face. Nobody knows they even exist. Right. It won't be a politician. I would wager that maybe 10 to 20 total people in the world have the full picture of... You had the legacy program. And they got more funding than everybody

they could ever imagine. I also understand the Joe Roganore. orientation towards it because it's so the whole the uap thing is so weird you have on the one hand like you know this sort of like tim taylor nassah like all this sort of like strange you know summoning stuff around you know ufo or sorry around rocketry like in the history of rocketry and then you have this other stuff of like you know uh aerospace black aerospace and like saucers and hangers and like nuts and bolts propulsion updates that sort of thing and and then you have like what are the NHA themselves and like the ontology there and kind of the metaphysical dimension

of like Jacques Valle and Diana Pesolka and like what we're dealing with and is it spiritual and it's just extremely confusing. Well, and I mean, it could it be intentionally provided that it's confused, you know, or to bring confusion. So, I mean, that's kind of where we have to kind of be very careful to navigate that. You only know what you're exposed to. And then again, whoever is exposed to something could be fed misinformation to say, go ahead and say this, thank God I didn't have that problem.

You know, there was suspicion when Jake approached me that it was like, okay, maybe this might be the case. But then he's very, he's been very transparent about his role, you know, being a red team asset pretty much to try to bump whistleblowers and figure out who's got what. And you are, you're sure, you know, I've got pretty good impression from my interview, but you're sure he's not still, you know, red teaming. Like, there's this moment in my interview where I was like, how do we know you're not red teaming us right now?

Well, you don't. You don't know that. You really don't. That was an honest answer. Yeah, you don't know that. And all I can do, I expect to get asked that a lot. It's like, you know, I'll paraphrase a book from Matthew, I think it is. Like, you will know me by my fruits.

Well, and there's, what does he really have to benefit from red teaming if he's public? Mm. He's out there. I mean, and not only that, but he. Well, if I'm playing devil's advocate, it could be, you know, controlled opposition. or, you know. For what, though? I don't, because he's trying to prove the exit.

Because he's trying to prove this is real. That's his whole thing. And he's helping, he's trying to get government institutions to help with that. Somebody's not going to be in a disinformation campaign just to have government involved. And then just to, you know, everybody's trying to prove it's real. So is Jake, which we all know it's real. But in the consensus of the planet, I think if everybody understood it was real, then they'd actually be the first role that they can get over.

What do you guys think, and, you know, I think that's a very noble aim. What do you guys think is, like, the disclosure moment? Like, because you think, you would think that a guy saying, I retrieved a UFO would be the disclosure moment. But that, you know, I think a lot of people, like, my video on this guy only has, like, a half million views. And they're, like, 350 million people in this country. And so, you know. Well, again, it depends on what side of the fence you sit on. Some people need disclosure to be something that they have to witness firsthand.

nothing wrong with that. There's some people that, yes, they can take tidbit information that I've provided to say, okay, yeah, reverse engineer does something. For me, that was disclosure. Yeah, if I saw that thing, how many. That would be it, yeah, yeah. I would have trouble keeping a day job. Like, you have a couple of businesses.

Like, I'd be like, I'd turn into a fiend, like trying to figure out. Well, that's why sometimes business gets fucking boring, and then you're like, man, I wonder what's going on over here. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Start trying to research into stuff. I'd spend the rest of my life trying to take a, ride on that thing. I mean, if that ever happens, I'd be like, Jesse, hit me up. Don't say anything, but let's make me at this point. I mean, you know, it's up in the air

what our future holds. It's up to us to create the future. That's really what it is. Do we want to continue living on the past, going to the same kind of habits and rituals that people do, or do we actually want to evolve and actually be a better person at the end of the day and help change the world? Disclosure is going to help change the world. And hopefully, for the better and not something that's going to be taken astray and weaponized somehow, like it already has been. Yep, yep. Is there something about, so it's the people with psionic assets, when Jake even said this

on my show where it's like, you know, their diets, their sense of community, they're being tapped into sort of, you know, they don't live in this kind of materialist reductionist framework where like this stuff is actually more kind of second nature to them. Yep. Is there something about the land itself? Like you think about places like, um, you know. you know, Skinwalker Ranch to come to Washington, Sedona. People just report, like, weird stuff.

Well, some of the first E.5 stuff I've seen was in Sedona with the Greer's team. We were with Demi Lovato. Uh-huh. And her, her. That's an absurd sentence. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I get, I get. We were with Demi Lovato and Stephen Greer.

To me, she was cool to me. You know, she's cool to me, but, you know, she's had her troubles, just like we all have. So you can't really hold her accountable for that. That's her own thing. But, you know, it was cool to talk to her and see what she's, she believes on this subject, you know, and this reaches everybody. You know what I mean? So it's all walks of life coming up to a certain point to understand that we're acknowledging something greater than ourselves. You know, so seeing the stuff that happened out there was pretty wild.

What did happen out there with? So Orb. Stephen Creer. So we went to this. I'm not going to name it because, you know, just in case she ever goes back here. want people trying to like, you know, I'm from my, I understand she comes here routinely. Okay. But it was a, it was a cool place in Sedona.

And so we ended up setting up a circle in two different parts. One was off grid. One was at this place. And so the first night we were there in this off grid place, just off of a trail road, nobody knew we were the fuck out there. And there was just like 2 o'clock in the fucking morning, right? So I'm sitting there fucking falling asleep, you know, and I'm having to, you know, drive everybody. unless Greer was doing that, but most of the time I was driving us.

So we're sitting there, and the way that we are seated is everybody has a part of the sky that they're looking at or the surrounding area. So where I'm facing, I see Greer. Demi's friend is over here. Demi's like right here. Paula, where she's somebody in the UFO field or something. She's some author. I can't remember her name. Paula Harris. Oh, Paula Harris.

She wrote a Trinity book with Jacques Valet, Italian. She was there, too. Yeah, yeah. She's a good lady. She actually lives where I, kind of close to where we live. Cool. She was there. Demi's fiancé was there, and then Demi's good friend was there.

And then Demi's mom was there, who's very sweet and very cool. She's very short, but she's a good lady, both of, you know. So we're sitting there. We're seeing, you know, disc-shaped craft appear in and out. Really? Gold color. Wow. And then I don't know what the hell this was.

So I was sitting there and then, you know, obviously we're way apart from each other. Yeah. Something just fucking slaps me on the side of the, on my side very hard. It wasn't a fucking animal. It wasn't any of them because I'm like observing everything. And they're saying shit's happening behind me. And I'm like, okay, well, I can't see. But then I'm trying to stay over here to see if there's anything coming on over here.

And something hit me really hard on the side. And you don't know what it was. I don't know what the fuck it was. And was it, did it correlate with a UFO sighting? I don't, yeah, but they were saying that there stuff was behind me and shit, but then all of a sudden it's something just like hard. They were saying stuff was behind you, like what was behind you? Orbs, shapes, blue and white color, stuff like that.

And you just felt something. I just felt something literally just like this, like harder than that on my side. And it fucking jumped. I'm like, what the fuck was that? Holy shit. So I don't know what it was. What do you say to the people that say Greer is like, I don't know. holographically like displaying stuff oh if if that's the case sign the fuck up and pay the money

because this guy i mean he this is what he dedicates his life to he gave up his medical career to do this kind of stuff so yes does he need to have provide a living i'm pretty sure everybody watching the show if they're interested in UFOs they're not going to do it for free when they got bills to pay and the families to but is he is he faking any of the he is not faking this shit at all okay there's people say oh you know how many opeds are against greer yeah publicly to you know, say that this stuff isn't real, that are a part of these programs trying to say it's not. Yeah. Interesting.

With any other final things or what you want to add? Well, you know, and it's just, you know, I want people to keep an open mind, but I want people to understand that, you know, whatever side of the field you're going to be on, just understand that we're trying to get something done here. And it's going to happen with or without everybody. If they want to help and support it. Great. If not, stay the fuck out of our way. We'll handle it ourselves like we've been doing. Mm-hmm. Anything?

I don't think so. Okay. Michael, this is an honor, man. I appreciate you taking the time. This is a blast.