American Alchemy with Jesse Michels - Pentagon's UFO Investigator: "We're Not Ready This" (ft. Lue Elizondo)

Episode Date: October 13, 2024

Lue Elizondo is a former U.S. intelligence officer and former director of the Pentagon's Advanced Aerospace Threat Identification Program (AATIP), known for his efforts to investigate and bring attention to the existence of unidentified aerial phenomena (UAP). SPONSOR (DeleteMe): 🔒Remove your personal information from the web at https://joindeleteme.com/JESSE20 and use code JESSE20 for 20% off 🙌 DeleteMe international Plans: https://international.joindeleteme.com SPOTIFY ➤ https://tinyurl.com/jessemichelsspotify DISCORD ➤ https://discord.gg/jessemichels INSTAGRAM (Personal) ➤ https://www.instagram.com/jessemichels INSTAGRAM (Show) ➤ https://www.instagram.com/jessemichelsmedia TWITTER ➤ https://twitter.com/AlchemyAmerican EMAIL/BOOKINGS ➤ [e-mail] CREDITS: Featuring Luis Elizondo Jesse Michels Ammar Kandil Maurice Hill With Appearances from Hal Puthoff Eric Weinstein David Grusch Jacques Vallée Garry Nolan Ross Coulthart Written by Jesse Michels Edited by Bryan Felber Cinematography (Wyoming) Mario Kidd Cinematography (D.C.) Isaac Rodriguez Junior Editor Scott Noda CGI Animation Karim Niazi Music Jordyn Edmonds Timestamps: 00:00 - Introduction 00:55 - Arriving at the Lodge 01:55 - Who is Lue? 13:38 - 1952 D.C. UFO Sighting (Mr. Hill the Lodge Groundskeeper) 19:30 - Unexplained Implants 22:01 - Edgar Mitchel / Foo Fighters 27:26 - NASA's Occult History 36:24 - Human Biology 38:17 - George W. Bush Disclosure Discussion (Early 2000s) 47:45 - Physics of UFOs 50:46 - The Program 55:22 - Jim Ryder's "The Garment of God' 56:51 - Remote Viewing (Lue's Experience) 01:03:07 - Is the Phenomenon Demonic? 01:09:32 - David Grusch's Atomic Energy Act Revelation 01:12:28 - Caudate Putamen 01:17:30 - Experience with Orbs 01:20:40 - Manhattan Project 01:22:20 - Carl Sagan 01:24:15 - DNA 01:28:11 - National Security and Human Nature 01:33:18 - NHI 01:36:16 - Is Humanity Ready for the Truth? 01:40:55 - What are Space, Time and Matter? 01:45:48 - Global Paradigm Shift 01:55:32 - Lue is Tired 01:58:44 - The Importance of Love vs. Fear 02:02:54 - What is Imminent? 02:04:16 - Outro / Join New Discord SUBSCRIBE TO OUR CHANNEL: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC7eOJzNRWY4l2UTDvIquxYg?app=desktop Original music: https://open.spotify.com/artist/6LlLRudDi60Uy4jcmOSEs1 Video from the late, great Jim Ryder: https://youtu.be/R9Yn0hgbVA0?feature=shared #aliens #documentary #mystery #podcast #history #nasa #uap Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Either A, the reality is that UAP are here. Or B, this is some form of mass hysteria. And if it is mass hysteria, that means you have admirals, generals, trained pilots with top secret clearances, weapons officers, Air Force nuclear technicians literally with their fingers on the nuclear button. Yeah, right. That are all bad shit crazy. Luis Elizondo.

Louis-Ele-A-Lisando. Lou Elizondo. Lou Elizando. Louis. Non-human NHA-TI-TTIQ black cube jellyfish glowing red triangular craft better than our airplane That's nuts you can't stop a united pilot from posting a tick-off The white lettering under interference syndrome injuries what's going on there I'll have to be careful entry next question okay no word are we ready to tell the American people the truth about UFO

I'm looking to that I presume How's it going? Hey brother Henley how are you? I'm good man you got the whole review back in action Excellent. Let's do it, guys. After you. Hey, gents, by the way, you're not going to leave this. This gentleman here, Mr. Hill,

who was living here in Washington, D.C. in 1952 during the famous UFO incident here over Washington, and he was going to find us. No way. We just picked it up right now. Him and his father were sitting on the front porch, and he actually witnessed the UFO event here over the Capitol building, one of the last few people that I know that actually could tell his story.

We got an interview. I literally just met him right now, but about 10 minutes ago? You know who this guy is? Yeah, I knew the face when he came to the door. I said, no, I don't know what you say. You know, I know. I told him he should have just turned me away. Absolutely not.

First off, I want to give a huge thanks to delete me for sponsoring today's video. Today's guest is the man behind modern UFO disclosure. Hate him or love him. There's a high chance he wouldn't even be thinking or talking about UFOs right now if it weren't for this man and his work over the world. the last eight years. What's it like to be me? I wouldn't want anybody to have to be me.

I don't want to be me in this particular case. Because it's very tough. You're right. Half of the government hates what I've done. They consider it talking out of school. And of course, you're right, half the public doesn't know what to think, right? Am I a disinformation agent? I got all these things around here from various intelligence agencies, right?

I can't be trusted. No way. What? How you doing, sir? Nice to meet you. Oh. My God. I'm Luke.

I'm like, actually geeking out for like the first ever. Sir, your name? Nate. Nate, nice to meet you, sir. Sure, if you want, no swel. Do you like make videos or something? No, that's this guy who makes videos. He's a famous YouTuber, not me.

Let me get this behind, too. Here, come on, guys. He looks at the devil's tower and runs into this guy. Luis Elizondo is a Pentagon whistleblower whose fame has reached new heights with his autobiography imminent, in which he discusses the, existence of American legacy UFO reverse engineering programs and of non-human intelligence, the fact that we are not alone. I don't think the fact that we are not alone in this universe is necessarily something that needs to be classified. He was the director of ATIP, or the Advanced

Aerial Threat Identification Program, which was an offshoot of OSA or the Advanced Aerospace Weapons Systems Application Program. I know a lot of acronyms. We'll help you understand these programs and what they were actually intended for later in the episode because there are a lot of popular misconceptions about both. This interview took place across two locations. Luz Home in Wyoming. We filmed this two years ago and a certain special Naval Lodge in Washington, D.C. this August. Wow, Masonic Temple.

A lot of our founding fathers were Freemasons and a lot of these buildings were built by and inspired by Freemason. You have the pyramid and the eye on the dollar. Oh, yeah. Yeah, a lot of symbolic. Even the Pentagon itself, the shape of the Pentagon. Right. The way all the Lafant, basically the architect who built D.C.

Yeah. If you look at the street from the air, you see the square and compass. Oh, so interesting. I didn't know that. Yep. I brought along Amar Candiel, one of my best friends and one third of the incredible YouTube channel, Yes Theory, to help here. And we had an absolute blast. The dissemination of information.

is now exists in a way that it cannot be controlled. You know, until recently, I'd never seen close encounters in third kind. I found it really interesting that Spielberg got a lot of it right. I was like, wow. Before Liu's pivotal role in UFO investigations, he had an extremely intense history in American special operations, warfare, and intelligence. I've seen both the best of man and the worst of man,

all within seconds of each other. His father, Lou Sr., was a Cuban exile who originally fought shoulder to shoulder with Castro. After falling out with the Cuban communists and coming to America, he became part of the CIA's Bay of Pigs invasion to topple Castro. Finally, he joined a hardcore militant group of Cuban exiles called Alpha 66 that engaged in all sorts of very interesting rogue operations for three-letter agencies. Alpha 66's explicit mission was to eventually invade Cuba and topple Castro. This was the environment Elizondo grew up in.

Little Lou knew how to work every gun under the sun. Here's how you cock this. Pull it back, let it go. Bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang. That's insane. He went on to fulfill a pretty badass career in American defense and intelligence, protecting the U.S.'s most advanced technologies, running intelligence efforts against ISIS, al-Qaeda, Hezbollah, the Taliban, and FARC.

He's been deployed across the world, and he even held a leadership position at the notorious Guantanamo Bay. Perhaps most importantly, he was a liaison to the Special Access Oversight Committee. Why does that even matter? Because this committee deals with the most sensitive, unacknowledged programs in our military. Finally, according to future guests of this, this show, Matthew Pines. Blue even was a member of the U.S. Army Intelligence Support Activity Group, otherwise known as Gray Fox.

This was a tiny elite of the elite special missions unit that goes into hostile territory before Delta Force and J-Soc. And if you know anything about J-Soc, they might have a thing or two to do with UFO crash retrievals. Does the Dewey currently work with J-Soc? We work with all of the security entities around the federal government. Do you guys work with J-Soc? Yes or no? Yes, we do. Okay. Everybody says, well, I want know the truth. Okay, but how much of the truth do you want to know and how much should we know?

In 2017, after trying to brief General Mad Dog Mattis on UFOs and having the door shut in his face by some bureaucratic intermediaries, Elizondo, along with his friend, former Deputy Assistant Secretary for Defense Intelligence, Chris Mellon, decided to go off script. They took matters into their own hands, and they got three UFO videos cleared for release by the Pentagon. They took those videos to the New York Times for a bombshell article that was released in 2017. Since that fateful day, UFOs have been all the rage, movies, media, press. It is now passe to say that you believe in UFOs.

It's a cottage industry. And yet simultaneously, very few people can tell you anything about them. Who their occupants are, where they're from, and why they're here. This is a raging wildfire now, and it's not because of me. I can't take credit for that. It's because of what your generation has done with it. When we're off camera, I'm going to show you guys something. We'll see how you react.

Okay. Wow. Blue cannot violate any security clearances, and so sometimes conversations with him can be frustratingly high level. Is there some spectrum that spots the UFOs more frequently? Uh, I'll have to be careful answering that question. Okay, no worry. There's, um,

It's a good question. Okay. But if you suspend your cynicism for a moment and actually take some of his high-level analogies as very important puzzles to decode, core truths underneath layers that need to be peeled off carefully, this interview has a startling amount of information.

Okay, I'm saying this not you, but I think infrared is interesting. It is. Infrared can tell you a whole lot of stuff. Yeah, specific bands of it. Yeah. We know that UAP are interested in, nuclear capabilities and our military capabilities.

It's no different than we go to the Serengeti and we watch the cheetahs praying upon the antelope, you know. It's interesting to watch. What is their hunting techniques? What are their capabilities? There's a lot of occult history. Occult history in NASA. From the catastrophic implications of weaponizing UFO technology to the esoteric roots of the

American space program, to alien chips implanted in human bodies, one of which Lou actually handled firsthand. It was moving under the microscope under its own metabolism. To Lou regularly seeing green orbs in his house, to him astral projecting himself next to a terrorist as a part of a CIA operation, to his formerly undisclosed work with David Grush. We both worked in a skiff together. I am telling you straight up, that guy, he knows a lot more even than he was allowed to say. The amount of reality-altering claims Lou makes in this episode could warrant a hundred other episodes. They seem to be interested in nuclear stuff. There is an absolute connection to New Beer.

Yeah. Absolutely. And is it that? That's unequivocal. Do you think it's the power unlock more than the destructive force? I think. So without further ado, sit back and enjoy this well-blended multi-year and multi-location interview cocktail, an astral tour of esoteric knowledge with this week's American alchemist, Luis Elizonda.

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Remember to sign up in the description below for a big discount. Doing that supports this channel, and it allows me to keep doing this so I don't have to get a real job. Yes, so my father and I were sitting on the back porch and he happened to look up and see it looks like four, where you were a place or something. They were like four of them. They trailed him about their four or a hundred. And I asked my father what was it. He just looked at the music city. I know how did which direction did your house face your porch? My porch was like the 13th and ebe 12 blocks from here from the from the capital of right off or half a block off of a Pennsylvania Avenue. And my back porch, from my back porch, you could see the capital.

This show contained a lot of bizarre synchronities that I have trouble explaining. In fact, the groundskeeper of this lodge, an 82-year-old man named Maurice Hill, recognized Lou before we even got there and started to open up about his own UFO encounters. Soon we learned that he was one of the last living witnesses of the famous DC flyover. A slew of UFO sightings in July of 1952 in the Capitol, prompting headlines like this newspaper article and a call between Truman and then American chief UFO investigator, Edward J. Rupelt. It also sent the CIA into a frenzy about how to manage the UFO problem. We can say that the recent sightings are in no way connected with any secret development by any

Department of the United States. There's been a lot of discussion that actually there were some, I think it was an F105 fighter jet that was actually scrambled to intercept those lights, those luminous objects. And there's even one reported account where perhaps they were asked to fire upon and may have actually hit one of them. That has not been verified yet, but there are some allegations about that. Me and two of my friends were standing on the sidewalk talking down on Wiley Street, northeast. And while we were talking, just happened to look up to see this thing going up in the air.

It looked like a huge jellyfish. I'll say, what the hell is a jellyfish doing up and? And it just was going up and up, and like the jellyfish was in the water or whatever. At the bottom of it, looking at it, it looks like looking into a volcano when you see reddish and black. The lava. Yeah, lava bubbling or whatever. That's what it looked like under the bottom. bottom of it.

First of all, when did this occur? What year? That was in the 70s, around 73, 74, somewhere along that. Early to mid-70s? Yeah. Okay. And was that here in Washington, D.C.? Yeah.

Do you remember what direction you were looking at in this guy? Yeah. That way, southeast. How far away and how big was the object if you had to guess? That thing was big. It was about the size of a, maybe a cut. maybe a car, like a round, but it was round, about the size of a car. And it was about, when I first saw it, it was like, looking at that.

And then it looked like it was just going up and up and up. Almost like a parachute? Is that a, like a parachute, like, but it was just going. Interesting. Well, how high is this about 30 feet? Yeah, we're roughly about 30 feet. Well, that was about 45 or 50 feet. That's a little high.

Wow. When UFO researcher Jeremy Corbell released a video that was caught in Iraq in 2018 of a jellyfish-shaped UFO, I have to admit I was a bit skeptical. It just felt like the object looked like none of the other discs, tic-tacks, saucers that get reported. It was extremely high strangeness. And so hearing this groundskeeper, Maurice Hill, saying that he himself had had an up-close-in-personal encounter with a jellyfish shaped UFO was actually pretty mind-blowing and was fairly confirming for me.

Well, thank you for your time. Yeah, sir, it's been an honor and privilege. Thank you very much, Mr. Hill. Oh, you will. Thank you, thank you for telling that story for us. That's amazing. Both the DC flyover and the jellyfish. Right, and by the way, there's other accounts of jellyfish.

I don't know. That's fascinating. Oh, yeah. There's actually a DVD on it. Wow. I can send it too. Are they dropping anything? Because I know there's some cases where there's molten lava and whatnot.

Yeah, well, it's some will not. Well, there's a reference to something called Angel Hair, which refers to a slewing off or sloughing off of the outer layer of the vehicle, and it drips down onto almost like a residue or like molten metal on the ground. And that is referred to as angel hair. I talked about in my book that the external part of the craft may be ablative, sacrificial. that's why there's a lot of layers. Potentially what happens is that when it's juiced up, there is an interaction between the energy source and the outside of the craft,

which is actually the engine. It's not actually an engine inside. And that is what creates that bubble. But every time you juice it up, you lose a layer. It's disposable. Correct. When you talk to people that quote-unquote call themselves experiencers or quote-unquote app-d-dees,

they'll say the same thing. There's this recurrent pattern where it's almost as if an individual is chosen. And what you saw the movie last night was a kind of a, I think, a hat tip to that notion that it's not random, that there is definitely some sort of deliberateness, if you will, or purposeful selection. You handled an implant, and it was the Department of Veterans Affairs, gave you this implant.

You describe it as these fibers, these spindly fibers, and then you sort of, you get those away from the thing, it's just like microchip. Is that right? So let me give you the best explanation I can. Imagine a little square piece of metal that was iridescent, meaning different colors, purple and silvers and different colors, that was entombed in a soft gelatinous,

what appeared to be human soft tissue. If you were to remove a tissue sample from somebody, maybe about this big, and inside there was a foreign object, that was metallic, appeared to be metallic and multicolored. And on the biological material, this encapsulation, these fibers, multicolored fibers, yellows, greens, blues, that came off of that central piece of gooey mass.

And according to the pathologists, it was moving under the microscope under its own metabolism. Wow. Yeah, and it was removed by a surgeon from the Department of Veterans Affairs, from a U.S. veteran who claimed to have a up close and personal contact with the UAP. Occupants or just UAP? I don't know about that particular case and I have to be very careful.

I mean, if there's an implant, HIPAA and patient confidentiality. Where, do we have any sense of where that implant is or? We have an idea. Okay. Are you familiar with Whitley's striber store? I am not. Well, so Whitley has, has an implant in his ear that has been documented under like an x-ray and and in an attempt for him to to extract it it had the same behavior it evaded the surgeon so we have someone right now there's a person at one of the aerospace corporations i cannot say their name because i don't want to get them any kind of trouble but they've had something moving in their body now for several years and they keep located in different parts

of the body yeah and i've asked wittily about it because he was at sole conference and uh i asked him like why he never removed it. And if I remember correctly, it was something around like he just, he felt like maybe there was, maybe this was the NIH's way of communicating with him and he didn't want to interrupt that. And it was also his late wife, she had recommended that he doesn't, he doesn't take it out. I know that there's a story about Edgar Mitchell,

who was a naval astronaut who said that in a training mission over Germany, He saw over multiple days, he saw a squadron of like nine UFOs that flew in all these different formations. And he had footage off. Not loving your AT&T or T Mobile Bill? Yeah, we've been hearing that a lot. Good news. Bring your AT&T or T Mobile Bill to Verizon and we'll give you a better deal. So get away from that unfortunate phone bill and get to Verizon.

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It must provide a recent consumer mobile bill in the name of the person who gave me the deal, additional terms, conditions, and restrictions apply. USAA knows dynamic duos can save the day, like superheroes and sidekicks or auto and home insurance. With USAA, you can bundle your auto and home and save up to 10%. Tap the banner to learn more and get a quote at usa.com slash bundle. Restrictions apply. They said that when he got back to the U.S. in Washington, as soon as he landed, a military plane landed, took the footage.

never heard about it again. Yeah, I mean, look, it's not uncommon. Let's let's talk about one of the founders of my program, A-Tip, the Senator Stevens from Alaska. This was a World War II pilot. He, who he himself admitted he had encounters with foo fighters during the war. Okay, and this is a senator. Food fighters. So the foo fighter is a, it's a term that was used by the allies for UFOs. that would chase the aircraft and follow them from during their during their operations, mid-or operations over occupied Germany and other places as well. It was so where does all this where do all these videos and reporting end up?

That's a great question. One I probably can't answer right now but hopefully soon. For the food fighters they seem like more like flare style or like ball lightning sort of things. Some were actual technical crafts. A lot were described as as, you know, glowing balls, if you will, of light, luminous, luminous objects. Yeah. But there's actually pictures of them.

So why did so many, because the footh fighters were famous 1944 and 1945 in a specific kind of triangle of southern Germany. So why do you think those things kind of popped up there specifically? Well, military operations, right? We know that UAP are interested in nuclear capabilities and our military capabilities. So what was going on at the height of World War II? Well, winter takes all.

Both countries are trying to be the first to develop the atomic bomb, right? And a lot of new technology was being fielded by both sides in a winner-takes-all scenario. So, you know, if you wanted to see how it's no different than we go to the Serengeti and we watch the cheetahs pring upon the antelope, you know it's interesting to watch what is their hunting techniques what are their capabilities is Edgar Mitchell sort of pattern match to a specific type of abductee

who almost has a conversion experience post experience so they have some sort of close encounter maybe maybe of you know with the craft or of the third kind and then afterwards they start to believe more in mind over matter more and sort of a pair of psychology and maybe even that you know they exhibit strange sort of biological features that they never had prior well you know a lot of people who experience life-changing events no different than PTSD right and soldiers who who suffer some sort of trauma or drama and you that changes you yeah it will change you can change the way you think the way you perceive I don't think it's that really far of a leap to suggest that

if you have a extraordinary experience that it's going to change your life in an extraordinary way Mm-hmm. Like Yuri Geller says that he had an E.T. experience as a young kid. Mitchell tells me one day, Edgar Mitchell, the sixth man, Paul of 14, who walked on them on Uri, there's somebody very important in NASA, secret base, that wants to meet you. I say, fine, who is he? And he says to me, it's Dr. Werner von Braun. I say what? Dr. Werner von Braun wants to meet me. Grandfather of the space program. He was a Nazi. Well, yeah. I mean, but he was a rocket genius. My curiosity killed me. I said, let's go.

Werner pulls out a piece of metal, and he says to me, Uri, touch this. Tell me what you feel. I put my fingers on it, and I say, wow, it doesn't feel like it's from here. Then he says, come with me. Do you see this door behind him? Werner von Braun takes me into his personal office. There is a safe in the office. He opens a safe.

I see a piece of metal. I've never seen such a color. Pulls it out. It's not heavy. He says, Uri, touch this. Tell me what you feel now. I put my hand on it and I say, Werner, this is not from here.

He says, you're right. This is a piece of a UFO that crashed on our planet. You know, I'm mind-blown because as a child, I used to sneak into movie theaters in Tel Aviv to see films on extraterrestrial life. And this is coming from the mouth of Werner von Braun. I think he was part of the starting of Stargate, right? Originally, the...

Uh, tangentially. He met Russell Targ. He was really the guy who brought the V2 rocket. Yeah. Which is really like a scud missile. Well, what I find so crazy. He and Arthur Rudolph created the NASA Saturn program. Correct.

That was 129 people. It was a transplant of the Nazi program. Absolutely. And have them worked secretly with us. Yeah, it's pretty nuts. And he had a bunch of other autoscorzane. He had a bunch of people we took over from Nazi Germany. Is there anything more kind of mystical or strange than METI when it comes to the history of U.S. rocketry?

Sure. Look at Launchpad 33. I mean, everything is Masonic. Look at the Apollo missions. These are all the zodiac signs, right? You have Apollo and you have the Juno missions. You have all these, you know, Mercury missions. And there's a lot of occult history in NASA. As Lou mentions here, even the conventional American space program, NASA, the Saturn and Apollo programs, have far more esoteric roots than meet the eye. Some of the top American astronauts were Freemasons. Buzz Aldrin, Gordon Cooper, Don F. Izel, Gus Grissel, James Irwin, and Edgar Mitchell were all Freemasons. Another famed astronaut of the highest 33rd Masonic rank was the famous John Glenn. who urged Terry Reid to investigate UFOs as part of Ossap.

Buzz Aldrin even established a Masonic lodge on the moon called Tranquility Lodge 2000, chartered by the Grand Lodge of Texas, and brought a free Masonic Scottish-Rite flag to the moon to consecrate the whole thing. Do you think that somehow made the program more effective? Well, I mean, look, whether it did or not, I mean, if people have a blue, belief in something, you know, there's like there's that old saying, there's no such thing as an atheist in a foxhole. The idea or notion that people, that the supernatural can assist you is no different than back the Romans carrying talismans into combat or conferring with the oracles of Delphi before a major battle, a significant event, right? And what about the start of the American space program?

Jack Parsons, the godfather of American rocketry and founder of Jet Propulsion Laboratory, would often recite occultist Alist Alistair Crowley's version of the Hymda Pan before every rocket test. He also claimed to have encountered a blonde-haired alien following a ritual in the Mojave Desert in 1948. Hi there. Are you interested in the White House? So Jack Parsons was in the OTO, you know, this crazy cult. Right about you. Yeah, this was with Alistair Crowley and all that. And they would do past life regressions.

Jack Parson, if you go all the way to the past, in terms of what his life was. Blood, it's called sex magic. It was some of the occult aspects of OTO, the sex magic rituals. Yeah, they did that. But his past life regression was Simon the Sorcer. And you know Simon the Sorcer was? So Simon the Sorcer, how the word simony came into existence is he was using sort of black magic. to levitate. And then he saw, I think it was like Peter and Paul, they were levitating because of

God. And he was like, oh, the disciples? Yeah, the disciples. And he was like, okay, like you guys are somehow levitating higher than me. I'd love to pay for that power. So that's where the word simony comes from. And so he could fly using the sort of black magic sort of thing. Jack Parsons was sort of a known occultist who would do all sorts of weird sex magic rituals. And also was very interested in kind of levitation when they did a path life regression on him. Apparently that was what they... Wow. Yeah.

And just listen to what religious studies professor Diana Posulka had to say in our interview about just how religious and interested in Latin and Greek rituals people in the space program are. Yes, they were doing some extraordinary types of rituals, and they definitely believed that they were in touch with these beings. They presented them differently. So the Parsons crew, yeah, they were way out there. And they were doing this in the L.A. desert, right? And stuff.

And they were doing ritual magic. And they believed that they were in contact with, you know, extraterrestrials and things like that. All right. On the Russian side, though, they were doing the same thing, but it was under a Christian veneer. So Chikoski believed that he was actually in touch with the angelic beings. And he talks about it and writes about it. And that these beings are in constant contact with us. if we're able to receive their knowledge.

And there's been this weird progressive split in science from, like, if you look at any of the most interesting scientists back in the day who've contributed most to science, whether it was Newton or Bacon or Jack Parsons was more of an industry man, but, like, all of these people dabbled in some weird beliefs and practices, and now it's this weird citadel where, like, you have to be this very straight-edge materialist reduction in the kind of ivory tower, and then there's like woo-woo, you know, people that read about how quantum physics is the law of attraction, but there's no real scientific basis.

And it's this bizarre bifurcation that I think has caused real stagnation. You have religion, you have science, right? Think of it as, think of it, you're Egyptian, right? Think of a pyramid, right? On one side of the pyramid, you had these wonderful stones making the pyramid, right? And on the other side, you have this thing called science, right? And when you're standing at the base of the pyramid and you're looking up, okay? When I'm on this side, I'm on science, religion could not be any further.

They are. They almost diametrically because, right? But as you begin to climb the pyramid, what happens? Religion and science get closer and closer together. And in fact, they lean on each other. They need each other. And in fact, there comes a point of singularity here where the difference between science and religion is in distinguishable. They are the same.

And the point being is that the problem where religion and science run into the problem is that they're fundamentally asking two different questions. One is asking how, one is asking why. And that is why the two don't meet at the bottom. You read the Torah and the Tramud, there's the stories that we grew up learning, and then there's, you know, Kabbala, which was kind of that part that most people were like, hey, you know, you don't want to spend too much time reading that. let the experts, you know, focus on that.

But there's a lot of this, both science and mysticism. We were talking about the Quran here. And some of the numerology that is in there, when I see numerology, I don't mean in a classic sense of numerology. What I mean is the ratios, the way words are spoken, how they're spoken, and how they relate to real-day science. You have to say, wait a minute, there is some insight here that goes way beyond. I mean, there is true hard science of the development of the fetus.

It's another example. That you have this beautiful marriage, this beautiful merger of religion and science and this understanding that you have to have both, that the spiritual world, the physical world, are all part of the bigger plane. Do you know where the word angel comes from? No.

Comes from the Latin word, Angel, Angel,ahelios, sun or light or fire, purity. It's a term to describe, the supernatural properties of these supernatural beings. Do you think that, you know, rumors that the Nazis had a flying saucer, you know, do you think that's Shriver or Mita? Well, I think they certainly tried. I mean, there's, you know, the experiments, de glauca, which were now known and other ones.

And there are foo fighters over Bavaria. But in reality, they did not have the tech, that we're seeing today. Mm-hmm. The distant. Do you think there's all the stuff around, you know what Operation High Jump is? Of course. You think that's a bullshit story where Admiral Richard Bird goes down the coast of Argentina towards Antarctica,

and he and his fleet encounter laser shooting discs? The problem is they also said a lot of other things, right? They found green spaces in Antarctica and other things, and the problem with it is you can get on Google now. know, you can see for yourself. That that's bullshit. Yeah. Do you think, so do you think there's nothing to the Nazi or Hitler fascination? No, they were a, they were fascinated in Antarctica.

They had several missions down there. Yeah. I mean, it was a hidden continent. Yeah. You know, I mean, no, there was absolute truth to that. Yeah. The question is, were they successful in exploiting it? Yeah.

And the answer is probably no. Yeah. It feels like in, if you're talking about science, science, we've gotten to, we're reaching kind of a Heisenberg limit of science in terms of scale. And so it feels like the next frontier is within, is looking at consciousness. And all science goes through, you know, the mind-body problem, it goes through a fundamental epistemology of consciousness. So do you think that that's somehow super important for the next scientific paradigm or breakthrough? Well, yeah. I mean, look, when you ask a computer do a calculation,

right? The computer is, has basic programming. Is it DOS? Right? Is it Windows based? Is it? And that will tell you the limitations of its processing capability. Yeah. We're no different. Yeah. We're just biological computer systems. Yeah. And we have our limitations. We also have our strengths. So this is an interface. It's an interface. Yeah. And do you think the ability to move outside of the interface in certain cases allows certain people to see UFO. Possibly. Possibly. Maybe some of the computers can work both Windows and DOS. And because of that, you know, UFOs versus not. Is there something? So we see generally between 400 and 700 nanometers in the electromagnetic wave spectrum. Is there some spectrum that spots the

UFOs more frequently? Uh, I'll have to be careful answering that question. Okay, no worries. There's a good question. Okay. Okay, I'm saying this not you, but I think, I think infrared is interesting. It is. Infrared can tell you a whole lot of stuff. Yeah. Specific bands of it.

Yeah. I was contacted by a CEO of a think tank in Washington, B.C. He says, I want you to come and participate in the pumpkins here in Washington, Mexico. I'm trying to do busy what it's about. This conference is about disclosing something to the American public. As a startup position, let's assume that they're having crash approvals by Russia, China, and the United States. And the question is, can we bring this out in public? How put off was at the Seoul Conference last year?

And he told a very interesting story of actually the George W. Bush administration where they're doing this kind of net assessment. Oh, he told that story publicly. Really? Yeah, in front of an audience. I never thought that conversation would come out. And it's, you know, on YouTube now. That actually occurred. That was a real conversation.

I'll bet you, you know what? Probably not a whole lot of people know that YouTube is out there because when I knew about it, it was very, very, very, very sensitive. Yeah, so he says some pretty crazy stuff. He says that George W. Bush was very interested in disclosure. He and Cheney, and they were thinking about, you know, disclosure, and they did this sort of net assessment study on it with their national security. Well, Bush's father was aware. He was briefed into the UAP director of the CIA for a very long time.

Correct, correct. And there's a backstory there, too. I'm probably not at liberty to discuss, but George Bush, Sr. was briefed into the UAP reality. And so Jr. is interested in possible disclosure. they come out of that study under Stephen Hadley National Security Advisor at the time, basically saying that we actually don't think full disclosure is good for humanity. The fact that George W. Bush contemplated UFO disclosure is fairly mind-blowing. It's especially interesting in light of the revelation my friend Walter Kernbroke after his conversation with David Grush.

And I said to him, who among all the people in society is keeping this secret, Who sits atop the pyramid of classified information? He said, Dick Cheney. If Dick Cheney was in fact a gatekeeper for the legacy UFO programs, then it leads me to believe that either the program was trying to out itself with Cheney's tacit approval, or if UFO disclosure was presented by outsiders, Cheney probably helped squash the idea. Either way, this is certainly a loose thread worthy of follow-up,

Because we know George Bush's father, George H.W. Bush, was fully read into UFO legacy programs. Just listen to this anecdote from Lou's lawyer, Daniel Sheehan. President Carter, you remember, had seen a UFO in 1969, I believe, was. And so that when he was elected in the first week of November of 1976, you know, the first thing he did was he sent for the head of the Central Intelligence Agency. to come down to Plains, Georgia, to brief him on the UFO issue. And it turns out that person was George H.W. Bush. Do you agree with that net assessment? Do you think that full disclosure is too kind of cataclysmic for the average person?

Well, there's between full disclosure and disclosure. Full disclosure is perhaps, you know, letting the world know if we've gleaned any technological advance from it, you know, towards our adversaries. I do think there's a need to keep things classified. I do think that there are reasons we don't want to tip our hand to our technological advantage over a particular adversary, right? We don't want to start another race, you know, weapons race. But at the same time, disclosure itself, the fact that we are not alone, no, I think America can handle the truth. In fact, I think America deserves a truth. I think we have to do a better job.

I think we as a people need to stop being spoon-fed information from what certain elements in our government tell us. And again, let me just clarify here, because this is important. I'm not against my government. If I have to ever choose between real national security and disclosure, I will always choose national security. Make no mistake.

And people always, oh, they're terrible, Lou. Hey, I am a patriot. I am loyal to my nation. I am loyal to the American people. I mean, like, it's kind of a two-pronged issue. It's sort of criminal to keep the nature of reality from the American population. That's sort of really unethical.

The fact that STEM students are growing up, maybe with the wrong frameworks. I spoke to how it put off. He said that topological physics could be being held within, you know, the government. You know that there's physics knowledge held by aerospace companies that is not known. There certainly is materials knowledge. Materials, well, okay, material science. Which involves topological physics or whatever.

That seems a little, you know, off to me. But then on another level, even from a national security perspective, if we have these programs, you take Carl Nell's, you know, he set up Army Futures Command, You take his statements in the debrief, eight-face value, which is that we're in this arms race to reverse engineer these crafts vis-a-vis Russia and China. If we have this balkanized, corporatized system with these fiefdoms to avoid foyer requests that was set up in the 50s, and you have all these aerospace corporations, many of which you've named in your book, Lockheed, Northrop, you know, BA.E, all these sorts of, you know, companies. And we're sort of doling out, you know, you take care of this system, you take care of this system. you take care of this system, you take care of this system.

And then in the Russian-Chinese side, they have these centralized, nationalized systems with their best and brightest working on it. How are we not, and call this Manhattan Project 2.0, how are we not going to lose Manhattan Project 2.0? Correct. Let me share something with you. And I go back to the whole corruption thing,

when people in the government are making unilateral decisions not to inform Congress, not to inform the executive branch, and making a decision to keep disinformation away from the American people, without going through the proper processes, you know, to make that decision. That's a problem I have. And look, when I ask, how did, I'm going to ask you a very simple question, both of you.

And it's not political, it's very simple. How did 9-11 happen? Do we know how 9-11 actually happened? I mean, not conspiracy. I mean, honestly. And we could say because some terrorists hijacked an aircraft. But what really happened is that we didn't share information we had. The CIA, the FBI, the Department of Defense all had pieces and bits and pieces of information, and they didn't share it with each other.

And that's what caused 9-11. And that's important because we won the Cold War against Russia, not because we kept better secrets. And by the way, this is a line that I learned from Christopher Mellon, who knows his shit. Chris said, we didn't win the Cold War because we kept better secrets than Russia. We won the Cold War because we knew how to move information more efficiently within our system, right? The problem is we haven't learned our lesson with 9-11 and we're continuing to do say it's the same thing with UAP. We haven't learned to move that information appropriately and it's staying in these silos and what's happening It's it's becoming necrotic

It's the information and and insight is dying there It's not getting out And I think especially when you're looking at a competitive situation, global situation like we have now with adversaries out there, Russia and China have no problem talking about this at all. In fact, China had a couple years ago in the China Morning Sun an article about the Five Contents Initiative. I mean, they're full till boogie. They're like, hey, we know these things are real. We're moving forward. Countries in South America, same thing.

Japan just begged the United States to enter into a bilateral information sharing agreement with the United States solely for the purposes of sharing UAP information. It's crazy. I recently, a couple weeks ago, I spoke with, had a revolutionary, former had a revolutionary technology at Lockheed Skunk Works, and he said I could say high level that we spoke. Really nice guy, cool guy. He's a good dude. I brought up, there you go, I brought up a couple of frameworks that if you were to talk to an average, you know, professor in any science program across the country, they would call me crazy. Parasicol. this idea of mind over matter. You sort of talk a little bit about this in your book,

Eminent with kind of remote viewing. And then I also brought up this sort of, you know, different version of electrodynamics, you know, sort of a little change in Maxwell's equations. And he was very, like, there was a lot of resonance there. He agreed with me on a lot of this stuff. And I'm having this conversation thinking, how the hell does this, like, renegade, scrappy kid

who, like, it's like, I have a history degree. I don't know shit. And this aerospace guy, space guy, we're agreeing on stuff, and then like you have Sean, Carol, Neil deGrasse Tyson, like our best and brightest scientists have no idea what either of us would be talking about. It's crazy. Sometimes knowing history is one of the most important things you can know. Hear that, mom?

They seem to be interested in nuclear stuff. There is an absolute connection to nuclear. Yeah. Absolutely. And is it that that's unequivocal. Do you think it's the power unlock more than the destructive force? I think I'll save that when I'm not like them

Yeah, no worry So let's look at this real quick You have the fundamental understanding of space You have points A Yeah And points B Okay, now you and I If I want to drive from let's say

Here in Wyoming down to Denver, Colorado That's expressed as a function of distance over time And I could have gone 400 miles And it took me eight hours And I express it linearly, right? So here I am near, run it takes me eight hours. And if I had the ability to warp space time,

not even that much, you don't have to fold it. All you have to do, watch this. If you have the ability to just compress space time a little bit, just a little bit. Now watch this, right? I'm going to show you this. So now my trip from Wyoming to Denver, instead of taking 400 miles and 8 hours,

I can do it in 100 miles, and I can do it in one hour, right? Yep. But I'm still in the same universe as you. What do I see you doing? I see that. You see that. I see this incredible hopscotter. I see you traveling at these crazy speeds.

It's just temporal dimension hacking. Right. But it seems like, yeah. You're just a walk in the park. Yeah. I'm going in slow motion, but be watching, whoa. And this whole space, because this is like this, the object inside that bubble might actually be much bigger than what we're seeing.

Yeah. So if, uh, if, uh, but E equals MC squared, then the only way to get this sort of spacetime metric effect is if you have enough energy. You got it, because if you do it, the only two ways to warp space time is with mass or a lot of energy. Think of mass and energy is the same thing. Mass is ice, energy as steam, okay?

But they're both water. Yeah. Okay, so same thing kind of here, energy and mass have this relationship. So you need to get plank scale energy or something. I cannot, if I use mass to do this, I need mass more than the earth. I'm going to perturb everything on the planet. So what's probably happening, it's a whole lot of that.

That is doing, that's allowing you to create a bubble and then do that. It's some material that's able to harness that sort of energy, which, wow. What would be your confidence level of that theory being true? I would not have shared that with you if I wasn't highly confident. But how you can't ultimately now, right? you or can you? You know, there's a lot of smart people out there, certainly a lot smarter than me, that have come up with some interesting scientific models and mathematical formulas that

say that could very well be the case. AASAP stands for the Advanced Aerospace Weapons Systems Application Program, a Pentagon program that ran from 2007 to 2012. Harry Reid, the Senate Majority Leader from Nevada, with a deep personal interest in UFOs, Daniel Inouye from Hawaii and Ted Stevens, senator from Alaska, who had seen a UFO as a fighter pilot in World War II, all provided a $22 million contract to Bigelow Aerospace to basically study UFOs in paranormal phenomena at Skinwalker Ranch.

But as we've heard from UFO whistleblower David Grush, the original intent of the program was actually far more ambitious. The Lockheed Martin wanted to divest itself from this material at a specific facility that's known to me that I've provided to the Inspector General. And the idea was, if they made a catcher's mitt, a security catcher's mitt for this shit,

you know, most serious sap possible, the contractor and the other government customer, which was the Central Intelligence Agency, for that specific Lockheed material. And it was shit that they recovered from like the 50s and stuff. And it was like bits and pieces of, of like hall structure,

shit like that. So they were going to tech transfer And the $21 or $22 million was actually for Bigelow Aerospace to build out, you know, facilities in Las Vegas and material analysis equipment. But going back to that transfer with Lockheed, basically the CIA said, fuck you to DIA and Lockheed. And it was totally killed. So Harry Reid's request to get the material transfer to the OSAP program was totally killed because of bureaucracy. and kind of fiefdom stuff. So ASEP was actually set up to transfer a UFO

held by Lockheed Martin to a special access program to get some outsider civilian scientist eyes on it. The program was not initially just set up to study orbs, cattle mutilations, and electromagnetic anomalies on Skinwalker Ranch. That's what it got turned into when the craft never got successfully transferred.

This would explain the program lead, rocket scientist James Lackatsky, telling Jeremy Quartz, on his podcast weaponized, that he actually stepped inside the hull of a craft. That was probably the craft that was going to be transferred to ASEF. The United States government has in its possession a craft of unknown origin and you were able to access the inside. Is that correct?

Yes. It's very important to note that a lot of people in the general public implicitly accept ASAP as the most secret core UFO program there is. they just released, I think, by accident. How does that happen? It's Kona Blue. Are you familiar with this? No.

This is like a UAP program of some sort. Just think about it. Lockheed spends roughly $85 million on a single new F-35 fighter jet. Do you really think that the same company that builds the F-35 would only spend $22 million on investigating an off-world craft they discovered? No, absolutely not. But say you have an incredibly secretive UFO program involving only people who've signed the most hardcore of NDAs. As time went on, maybe it would become harder and harder to get talent from the outside world.

Maybe you'd find yourself competing with Chinese and Russian equivalents that are far more centrally coordinated. And maybe what you'd do is set up a limited hangout, whereby you'd transfer some of that technology without saying too much about it to get some outside eyes on it. so that some new physics, biology, and aerospace talent could look at these mysterious vehicles and contribute their input. You'd probably learn a few things this way. Number one, who is worthy of being initiated into the program? Number two, how much money would allow adversaries to successfully understand or attempt to reverse engineer a UFO that they've found?

Number three, what are effective ways to throw people off the trail? And number four, what are the most effective but limited information sets you can give out so that only the most qualified initiates can discover core truths. The person involved in transferring this UFO to ASAP was VP of Lockheed Martin Space System's Advanced Technology Center, a guy named Jim Ryder. Osap was originally intended to skip out Bigelow Aerospace Facilities in Las Vegas due to a UAP material divestment plan proposal to OSAP leadership by Lockheed Markied, Markite. I urge everyone to listen to this talk Jim Ryder gave called The Garment of God.

If you wanted to study certain kinds of things related to what's called ESP in the United States, you had to hide it very carefully because you were crazy and the government didn't want you to think they're supporting crazy stuff. But if you wanted to do the work in Russia, go right ahead. Fine, here's your money. Because they're not caught in the religion that says it's not possible. I have to say, I found myself agreeing with just about all of his philosophical and scientific frameworks, but he says things you would never expect a prime defense contractor executive to say. He speaks about love as a physical force and divine love being the highest example of that force. He talks about the law of attraction, of extrasensory perception and psychic abilities,

of an electrically polarizable vacuum, even of the relationship of electromagnet, the human body and healing. He even speculates that gravity is an electric dipole. I highly recommend you listen to this talk I'm linking it in the description of this video. One of the stories in imminent, which is maybe the most mind-blowing, is that you and some CIA colleagues,

there's a terrorist in custody, and you guys are engaging in remote viewing protocols and you're testing out how effective they are. Do you want to say what happens here? It's... Yamava Resort and Casino at San Manuel is California's number one entertainment destination for today's superstars. Catch the Jonas Brothers return to the Yamava Theater stage on April 30th, the powerful vocals of Demi Lovato on May 17th, and the signature Southern Country Rock of Eric Church on July 19th.

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But basically, it is a fact that the U.S. government, the intelligence community, were taking spies and soldiers and teaching them to conduct what in the vernacular you call psychic espionage. And by the way, the Russians had a program too. So it wasn't just U.S. trying to, you know, pull something out of thin air. You know, again, no pun intended. But so were the Russians and other countries. And there were some very effective cases where, I mean, it was very, very compelling the data. I mean, there was no way you could repeat it without the getting, getting those conclusions without remote viewers.

So I was at the Pentagon. I also managed when I was running the UFO program. I was running portions of Guantanamo Bay in the United States. involving high-value detainees. And we decided to conduct an experiment where a few of us would get into a skiff. We had a brown bag, lunch, and we maybe thought we could try to remove you. And I had been to the detention facility before. I've got to be really careful what I say here.

I can get a hell of a lot of trouble. not realizing if we were effective or not. And then lo and behold, not too long later, a major news media article came out. I'm not going to say which one. That detailed this detainee's experience with what apparently the detainee perceived as five white figures over his bed,

shaking his bed. So, and so I. I called up Hal Poodoff and I told him, I said, hey, boss, I, you know, I think we, think we need to stop because it's now the front page of the new favor. I might not have been the front page, but one of the front pages of the sections there. And he kind of chuckled and he says, yeah, you know. There was another time where I had told Hal, I said, I have a really bad feeling there's something going to happen with the DC Metro within 90 days.

And I can smell fire and smoke and I'm very concerned. And he said, okay, well, love. And on the 89th day, talk to Hal about it. On the 89th day, there was a fire, fatal fire on the red line of the metro in D.C. Now, with that said, listen, that doesn't do us hell. Woo-woo, mumbo, jumbo. Look, guys, I think there's a very scientific explanation. I think most people can do it.

I think probably it's a vestigial capability that we've had for a long time. It's a species before we had, you know, the sophistication of verbal communication. Look, when two dogs come into a room, there's this nonverbal. communication, it's probably something very similar. I think it's probably based in quantum physics, if I had to guess. We don't quite understand it yet, but it's really not that special. A lot of people, when you get to a hotel and you pick up the phone and you call a loved one, are like, oh my gosh, I was just thinking of you, right? Probably something very similar. Yeah, it's wild, and it's wild how much corroboration there actually is for this working. There's, you know,

this woman named Jessica Uttes, who's this famous statistician, came in skeptical. looking at all of the kind of foyed Stargate or declassified Stargate documents. And she came out of this study saying, you know, I think there's something here. Ray Hyman is a skeptic, you know, friends with like James Randy back in the day, was at University of Oregon, also went through everything. Did we ever do it when we were at the, we did that? Yeah, okay. So, you know, again, can't be explained.

Yeah. But it's real. I have a possible crazy explanation for it. Okay. Maybe this is wrong. But whatever has to be going on has to not attenuate over space, time, and, you know, certain materials. Like put off as famous stories of putting people at the bottom of the ocean, a submarine, and they can sort of remote view stuff from far away.

And so what if there is, you know, this extended version of electrodynamics? Like, you know, there's a sort of other field where you get certain wave types that aren't kind of your traditional transverse herzian wave. Sure. Quite possibly. Yeah. I don't know. But that might be one possible in road into this.

Yeah, I mean, a lot of people believe it's, you know, based in quantum entanglement. Yes. And the human consciousness may be an actual quantum process. I'm not a neuroscience. Yes. Scientists, but some have speculated that that may be where human consciousness lies. It's an actual quantum process, which would explain kind of the understanding of how we interpret time and what it means in the present versus the past versus the future and how we can potentially perceive elements of the time.

future in the past as if it's occurring now. Yeah, in fact, like, you know, Roger Penrose thought that the brain was maybe a quantum system, room temperature quantum system. And so in quantum computing, you can reverse qubit positions across quantum computations. And so even people building quantum computers think that maybe you can send information back in time in a working quantum computer. Well, even, you know, the holographic theory to them, you know, I'm not saying I believe it necessarily I don't, but, you know, there's interesting elements there where you have, you know,

in holographic theory, you have a three-dimensional representation of an existence of reflection that is actually something else on the opposite end of the universe. And all information there is there for all time. And that, you know, we are living in what they consider, some scientist is called a holographic world. It's called holographic theory, very interesting. you know, as we study black holes and the event horizon more, and we begin to learn about hocking radiation and information being lost versus stored,

you know, there's some interesting theories out there. So you talk about the Collins elite, this evangelical Christian group, actually being one of the primary kind of blockers around UAP research. And then you even cite a story in imminent where this guy says, you know, Lucifer is, you know, his realm is the skies, and, you know, this stuff is demonic, and we should not study it at all. all I believe there was a program at Wright Airfield called Stack 5 STAC 5 and they were doing these kind of bizarre magical protocols ceremonial magic and a lot of these people were CIA people from

the Collins elite and they came out of that being like this stuff is demonic and we shouldn't touch it and maybe the thing that you've experienced more of is the Skinwalker Ranch stuff where people come out of, you know, being at Skinwalker Ranch, studying stuff there, and they say stuff follows me around to my home and I have to rid myself of it. I told you,

I went to Skin Walker Ranch right after I saw you a couple years ago. I smelled sulfur, and I was like, I got to get the hell out of here. And I had kind of not the best couple of weeks after that. And so, again, yeah,

maybe it's the same thing that we've looked at in the past when it comes to angels and demons, and then the question is, what is that? I don't know. You know, those are just different nomenclature, but... Well, look, if you're going to go to the scene of a fire,

don't be surprised when you come home and your shirt smells like smoke. Right? Same thing. But it may not be necessarily tangible, but, you know, perhaps there's leftover residue. Call it that. You know, I think the problem is that we have done such a good job in taking the things that we don't understand, and because we don't understand them,

putting them, tucking them in a corner and saying, it's weird, it's bad, it's paranormal. But when you really look at what the word is, we have stigmatized that word. The reality is the word para is Latin. It means above or beside, that's it. And so when I say parachute, what do you think of? You think of a device that deploys over your head

and you float down and hopefully hit the ground more with a thump instead of a thud, right? If I say paramedic, you think of a first responder, somebody who's good, who's in an ambulance there to save your life. But when I say paranormal, people tend to... Spooked out. Yeah, they kind of look at you. So what do you mean? They kind of look...

And my point is that the word paranormal is no different than any other word with paraprofix. We have made it weird. But the truth is everything in science by definition, everything is paranormal until it becomes normal. Right. Whether it's a cell phone or a Wi-Fi or electromagnetic spectrum and things like that. And so we have to really do a better job of policing ourselves and avoiding this unnecessary stigma. This is why I said before, you know, tomorrow's technology seems like magic today. You know, imagine being Da Vinci walking in the desert and coming across a garage door opener.

We hadn't invented plastic back then. We don't even understand what the electromagnetic spectrum is. or what a battery is, that's pretty magical. Yeah. Look, I'll tell you right now, true story. A lot of us that are involved in this, you know, scientists, right? Have been now accused on social media as being conspiracy theorists. They label you as like a weapon.

They say, you're a conspiracy theorist. No, actually, I'm a scientist. Now, the people that are labeling you the conspiracy theorists that they follow the scientific methods aren't even scientists. Right? I actually went to school to be certain. I became a special agent and then following the, you know, following the leads where they, where they go. But some people have a really hard time pushing their boundaries of understanding.

They allow other people to formulate their opinions for them. And then they get stuck in. And this is why I always say the true believer and the true skeptic are exactly the same person, just opposite ends of the spectrum. Because no matter what, no matter to face of what evidence, the true believer and the true skeptic are never going to change. Yeah, right. Right. It's the same person. And the skeptic says, oh, you go crazy believers. And the believers say, oh, you're crazy skeptics. It's the same person. Yeah. Depending on who you ask, right? Because the true skeptic is actually a true believer just in their own narrative.

And when people say this stuff is not repeatable, that's just false. To me, there are two patterns that I think are interesting. And I'd love to get your take on this. One is the nuclear connection, according to Robert Hastings, a mutual friend of ours, who wrote a great book called UFOs and Nukes. 100% he's right. He is legit. His observations and his conclusions are spot on. I couldn't talk about at the time when I was in the government. But everything he was reporting, we saw. It was absolutely correct. And you have these guys, these radar operators, you know, ICBM missile security personnel who they couldn't be the, you know, the last thing from the people who want 15 seconds of fame. They don't get into that line of work because they have some history on attention seeking, you know, desire. No, you don't look. You don't get involved in the UFO topic. to seek fame. If you want ridicule and isolation, then choose UFO top. Look, here's the bottom one, guys.

It's very simple. It's really a binary choice. Either A, the reality is that UAP are here, and they're doing what they're doing, or B, this is some form of mass hysteria. And if it is mass hysteria, that means you have trained pilots with top secret clearances, flying live munitions over populated cities. You have weapons, and you have Air Force nuclear technicians literally with their fingers on the nuclear button. Yeah.

Right. You have admirals and generals. You have directors of CIA and directors of national intelligence that are all that shit crazy. Right. So choose your poison. Yeah. Yeah. Which is a bigger problem.

Well, first of all, what's even more scary, if it is a mass delirium, then we've got bigger problems on our hands. That's what I tell people. I say, if you're null hypothesis, is that there's some cabal that is controlling all of this, that's crazier than just admitting that there's some sort of intelligence beyond humanity. David Grush, July 26, 2023, testified before Congress. American hero. American hero, amazing guy. And he said in a friend of ours, and he said some pretty crazy things. And one thing that I think is not often spoken enough about. Well, let me Just interrupt. He may say what people are saying are crazy things, but he's not crazy. I'm telling you right now. I've worked with the guy. I can't say where. I've been asked not to say where. We both worked in a skiff together. He had every access that you needed to have, and he saw the same information I did. So I am telling you straight up. That guy, he knows a lot more even than he was allowed to say. You know, anybody out there who wants to go ahead and poo, poo Dave and say, well, you know, this anecdotal. No, it's not. He was, oh, he talked to 40-some witnesses. It's all secondhand. No, it's not. That's the only thing he can tell you. But I'm telling you, there's a hell of a lot more that if he was allowed to say,

people wouldn't say that about him. I've gotten to know him pretty well. He's just incredibly smart and hard-ed-hearted. Yeah, it's a tragedy of what they did to him. You know, I'm not surprised. They tried to do the same crap to me. You know, they try to dig up anything and everything. Fortunately, I've had a very, very clean background.

But it has to stop them from trying. Yeah. And Grush said very interesting stuff around the atomic classification system, basically overlaying UFO secrecy. The guys that were involved in Manhattan were overlaying the same ecosystem of secrecy in some of the same ways to protect stuff that they were protecting our nuclear secrets.

The Manhattan Project would have custody of it, and then it would go into the Atomic Energy Commission, and then it would go into the Department of Energy, which has its own line of clearances. And so it's not only that UFOs are showing up at nuclear sites all across the U.S., but actually you have an entirely different clearance system, the NPQ. There is. Brother, there's reports right now online.

Anybody can see them. The government released a bunch of UFO-related documents not too long ago a few years ago thinking nobody would pay attention. I think like 10,000 reports. And when you look in there, you see actual verbatim UFO incidents back in the 50s and 60s over the Savannah River facility. Over what Oak Ridge National Laboratory? Over what Los Alamos?

And by the way, it's still happening today, right? So this isn't like, oh, this is kind of a new revelation. Uh-uh. James McDonald's famous physicist who was kind of very marginalized over this topic. He was at, I think, Arizona State, I believe. He saw his sighting, I think, was at Savannah River site. It was around that. And we look at that poor Harvard professor, right?

And they tried to try to get rid of him. And he won a law case. John Mack. That's right, John Mack. He had to go to court. Yeah. Because the system didn't want him talking. Yeah.

From my point of view, when I got involved, the CIA came to my office, and then they showed me MRIs of some of these people. And most of those people had interactions with UFOs. And these were Department of Defense and Intelligence people, so supposedly and reasonably credible individuals. So in looking at the MRIs of some of these people, we noticed a area of the brain that seemed to be disturbed, let's say, or different. in many of these individuals. This is a part of the brain known as the Quaterpoudemant, and it is a very specific part of the brain. It's responsible for all sorts of stuff,

and some have even speculated precognition may... But certainly intuition. Intuition, for sure. You did a great piece with Ross Colthard. Oh, thank you. He's a good man. He's awesome. He's a very good man. And he really knows his stuff.

Yes, he does. I'm very impressed by this. A lot more than he says. That's for damn sure. Yeah. Stanford immunologist Dr. Gary Nolan has been researching this topic, and while his conclusions are not definitive, there are two working theories. One, that people with naturally large Cordate Putainman might attract UAPs like an antenna.

Another, that UAP encounters with normal people, cause that same part of the brain to get bigger. Okay, so this is a slide from that news news news news news. piece and it's you're you're showing this kind of white matter syndrome court out they put him in yeah what out they put him in yeah so the the carate and puttimore is yeah yeah the MRIs and and Nolan talks about this but if you look at this look at the white lettering under interference syndrome injury CEO executive and then you have what is that like DOE gravity propulsion

what what's going on there I wasn't really sure how to approach this and don't want to dwell on it. I'm merely the messenger, not the original publisher of this. It was either a fuck-up on news nation's sources part or an intentional breadcrumb. But it answers my old colleague Eric Weinstein's questions around UFOs. Number one, where are the scientists? Well, they might be employed by the DOE. And number two, is string theory or quantum gravity really the only acceptable approach to gravity these days? Well, my guess is, whoever this propulsion expert is, is not using string theory. Finally, this corroborates Mark Andreessen and Ben Horowitz, saying that a National Security Council staffer told them that

elements of physics were classified in the past. We classified a whole entire areas of physics in the nuclear era and made them state secrets, like, of the like theoretical science physics. We totally classified them and made them state secrets. And that research vanished. Again, I wrestled whether amplifying this slide was the right thing to do or not. But to me, it is obviously not. adaptive from an American national security standpoint for the broader American populace to have

no idea that there is a more true science being practiced within the confines of three-letter government agencies, especially with where the world is headed now. And then there's that part. Yeah, that seems important too, but I'll let you speculate there. Either way, a more full understanding of the story here and how it relates to UFOs seems warranted. I am only allowed by the Pentagon to talk about what's in my book. Okay. I have not been given clearance to talk about anything beyond that. And because that involves a patient that also crosses the patient confidentiality,

which I would also not be able to elaborate on. Yep. Because I was thinking... Keep asking questions. Well, yeah. I know. Don't ask anything. You don't have to say anything.

But I was thinking when I saw that slide, it's almost like the three-body problem or something, where it's like we were just talking about possible like the NHA have counterintel or something. Our scientists working on the most interesting stuff, maybe they get retaliation or backlash. Because I was like, what's the connection with UAP? I mean, he's just working on very advanced science. Did he also encounter a UAP? And then is that correlated with the science? Well, we know that, you know.

And it said the old PRC visit. CEO of Lockheed had his own UFO experience, didn't he? Yeah. Oh, that's fascinating. Are you talking about Kelly Johnson? That's right. Yeah. At approximately 5 p.m., Mr. Johnson was looking out of a large window facing the west and just watching the sunset. He watched this black thing. He was convinced at this point that it was a UFO.

He said it was moving so fast he was unable to make out any additional features. Kelly Johnson wasn't just your average guy looking at a cloud going, oh, that's a UFO. No, this guy knows what he's talking about. You know, I go to Congress, and members of Congress will pull me aside and said, look, I had my own UFO siding with my son. Yeah. Literally fishing in a lake, and the thing came out of the water.

In your book, Eminet, which is fantastic, and everybody should go by and read, you talk about green orbs and that you see them, both with your family and that they're kind of around your place in Wyoming. We visited you. couple years ago. I don't know if you remember this. Do you remember what we're about to say? Yeah, do you know what we're about to say? I don't, but, but, you know, it's, I've had a pretty interesting life and a lot of things have happened. So I'm embracing myself. In all fairness,

by the way, that whole thing with a poodle in the lampshade, there were no pictures, it wasn't me. So if that's what you're getting, yeah? No, no, no. Yeah, well, this is probably a Tuesday for Lou, but we saw a green orb with you. I don't know if you remember that. It was nighttime. It was a, and it was kind of a peak, I remember as being a peak moment in like a very genuine conversation about the phenomenon. Because it was off camera. He was describing how the sun is a nuclear fusion reactor. And you were going deep into the science.

It was fascinating. And then all of a sudden, boom, right over the, we're by the shed. And it was like, I had never, I think Jesse had seen stuff before, but I had never seen anything. And I always, because it was only happened in my peripheral vision, I always call it half a siding. but when I read about your experiences in the book, it came back very strongly because I was like, holy shit, I have experienced what he's talking about

with him at his house. A lot of folks have. Look, at the end of the day, I can only give you my observations. Again, my opinion doesn't matter because people say, could it be ball lightning? Sure, say, NEMO's fire, sure, could it be weird electrical circuitry in the house

that's causing ion, atmospheric, ionization in a localized area and ionizing the atmosphere. It could be. What I do know are the facts that it was witnessed not only by me and my wife and my kids, but also our neighbors, but it occurred when I got into atyp. And it also was happening to other individuals that were part of that program. Same description. Same description in some different colors. Their stories will probably be coming out here in the near term. Wow. What was the closest to you have experienced an orb? Right here. Oh, wow. Wow. Because with you, like the experience that we're talking but it was probably maybe 100 to 100 meters away.

It was like even further than that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. They're very, very, very close. Some are far away in the sky as you described. Some are right there close and personal. Wow. I never felt anything, never felt any static charge. I was never afraid.

More just kind of curious, kind of like, wow, that's interesting. Wow. But then again, the whole portfolio was so weird. It's like, there's gotta be a freak out. Like, you know, maybe a nuisance, and again, obviously, you've had experience in some crazy situations, worked some crazy places, but I can't imagine a human experiencing something that can only be described as out of this world this close and for

it to be like, I guess I'm just observing. When we're off camera, I'm going to show you guys something. Okay. And we'll, I'll show you something that, and we'll see how you react. Okay. Wow. Can't wait. Okay.

Lou, so Dave said that, Dave Rush said that, um, we'll see that. Oppenheimer was part of setting up the original UFO secrecy protocols with the Atomic Energy Commission. Can you confirm or deny that? I wouldn't surprise me. That was before my time. I don't know. I didn't know Oppenheimer. I met Teller once.

You met Teller? Yeah, when I was a kid, I was about seven years old on an Air Florida flight. My father had some friends in the government, and he put me on a plane with him. And we went from Sarasota to Miami on an Air Florida flight. And he was eating very old at the time. I remember sitting next to him and he was eating chicken soup. No way. Yeah.

And I had no idea at the time, his significance only later. My father was like, you know. He had to have, to me, been involved in this stuff if this stuff exists. He's the smartest guy. He, you know, there's this 1971 Australian document actually that Grush cites a lot. That is this guy, I think it's their head of their nuclear division, this guy, Harry Turner. He's writing for the Joint Intelligence Organization, which is their CIA. And I think they, because there's some atomic testing going on in Australia, they start to see stuff.

And they're like, oh, maybe these UFOs are more real than meets the eye. And the U.S. kind of official version of this stuff around Blue Book was actually not super real. And they start to investigate. And it's this whole thing about the CIA's Office of Scientific Intelligence. They lists the scientists involved in anti-gravity research, and Teller and Oppenheimer are both named. So would not be at all surprise. Pretty crazy stuff. Small community.

Small community. Yeah, you kind of had to see the movie before I brought you here. Oh, 100%. Oh, yeah. I've only seen contact recently, too. Never seen it. Oh, really? You could watch it.

I think Carl Sagan was, he was kind of nominally skeptical of a lot of UFO stuff, but I think he maybe secretly was more of a believer than he let on. Well, you know, he was one who helped put that golden disk together that's now in our extra solar system, right, outside of our own solar system. It's truly interstellar space. Yeah. You know, why would he take the time to create something like that if he didn't expect someone to look at it one day? Right.

Carl Sagan didn't only hold some covert, possibly UFO-related meetings the public didn't know about. He also met a lot with Kit Green towards the end of his career. It was CIA guy bearing into UFOs. Yeah, you were telling me that. I didn't know that. His early journals are filled with passages about UFOs in extraterrestrial life. But you might not know he was a secret consultant on a project called A-119, a top-secret Air Force project based out of Curtin Air Force Base.

The project's sole purpose was to contemplate detonating a nuclear blast on the moon as a show of force against the Soviets. America can, should, must, and will blow up the moon. And we'll be doing it during the moon. We're wearing a full moon, so we make sure we get it all. Many people don't know this about Carl Sagan. I think it takes just reading his book, watching his videos, and watching his incredible movie contact,

to know that Carl Sagan knew a little bit more than he let on when it comes to UFOs. Where do you think of past civilization? If they're trying to make themselves known, what do you think they would do? Leave something in a Lagrangian point? Well, that's a great question, isn't it? Let's look at this, for example. Yeah. 55 million years old and look at the condition it's in it right it's already eventually

mother nature washes away all traces right the pyramids of egypt 5 000 years old probably older yeah let's say 10 right yeah you think so you think it's older yeah but what about carbon dating have they carbon dated anything well you can't carbon date stone uh unfortunately um but it's it's a little more difficult only organic things but yeah but yeah but But there's water damage on the limestone. Correct. And those of the spin. Correct.

And there are two guys, John Anthony West and Robert Schock, that think that these things were sort of built. And then you were saying... Well, my point being is that ultimately, no matter what you put on the face of the Earth, well, eventually you'll have subduction zones and will eventually go back into the mantle of the Earth and be recycled.

So Earth is not anywhere to leave anything permanent. So then we'd say, well, what about the moon? How about it? There's no atmosphere, no erosion. How about I built some sort of thing on the moon? Do you think there's a monolith? Right. Well, let's, you know, hypothetically, let's put an artifact there, right?

Yeah. That'll be there forever. But even the moon isn't forever. It's going to come a point where the sun will become a great giant, right, red giant, and will engulf and consume the moon. Okay. So even moons are susceptible. Same with asteroid impacts, et cetera.

So if you're going to make something truly enduring, truly enduring, there's really only two ways to do it. You either put something out in deep space where the chances are of it coming into contact with something or minimal or biology genetics because genetics is a fingerprint and that will continue as long as the species survives and finds other places to live so will that message and you can put a lot and the beauty about DNA is that it self-replicates yeah so that message in essence if you code it right could be there so what's as long as the species that survives so is that i don't know do you have any leading candidates for genetic, you know, past civilization is leaving their genetic mark? So again, I'm biased because my background, microbiology, immunology, paracetology. So,

you know, if you were to ask me, I would say genetics is a key, you know, DNA, deoxy, ribonucleic acid. But it's not the only key, right? There was a time where we as a species thought all life form had DNA. We now. realize that's not the case. There's there's living things that don't look like a living thing, like a like a virus that is about as alien as anything that we know. There is no DNA, only RNA. And yet it does the same thing if you do. It replicates. It does a lot of the same things. It defends itself. And so is, you know, a virus a life form? Well, I think some scientists would say, yeah, he behaves just like a light form.

It also gets into the brainstem and can cause people to act in subtle ways to promote the the replication of the virus. Absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah, like toxoplasmosis. Absolutely. Absolutely. So, you know, it's, uh, wow, what do you think, guys?

It's amazing. Look here and listen to that. In a weird way, it's like a similar, you've been to Egypt? Yeah. Have you stood in front of pyramid? There's always a sense that I feel like just standing up. I feel the same way about it. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

It's like not in reality. Yeah, yeah. This is a SP1, very, very rare for AR-15. It's kind of the unicorn of AR-15s. It's shooting 2-23 caliber. I've got plenty of 2-2-3 ammo. I'm using iron sights, and I'm doing it for a reason. Iron sites are the hardest to shoot from.

But this is old-school. If you can shoot with an iron site and put bullets on a target, you can shoot anything. Okay, so you've gotten spoiled now with this laser sight. Now, we're going to go back to old school. On an AR-15. Sorry. So believe it or not, with an iron site, you see where those trees are in the back there?

300 meters, 900 feet for military. If you wouldn't shoot sniper, I had to shoot that every time. Where the rocket is? Yep, way up there. Oh, yeah. Stress shut, yeah, absolutely, brother. A common theme here is we keep talking about the term national security. And I know you're here to interview me, but let me interview you just for a moment, if I may, if you'll indulge me.

How do we, this is a sandbox here, right? Let's say there's a technology now, there's a toy that there's 12 kids in the sandbox, but there's only one toy, right? This toy has the ability to let everybody play together and be nice. The problem is human nature is such that most kids, most governments in this case, using it as an analogy, are going to want that toy for themselves. How do we share the toy? How do we use this?

Because we know there's countries out there that if they had a certain type of technology, they would probably employ it very quickly to their advantage. And I'm not saying we have never done it because we have. I mean, we dropped the bomb. We did. We're the only country that's ever dropped the new, well, an atom bomb. And that was us. So we'd like to say, oh, we're afraid of it.

Well, don't look now, but we were the ones who did it. For good or bad or indifferent, right? That's a fact, established fact. So countries will use technology if they feel that they have to in a time of conflict. With this type of technology, if we were to come together and say, look, we really can do better as humanity. We don't have to fight each other, right? Now, this is on the backdrop right now of Hamas and Israel, Ukraine and Russia, right? We have issues in Africa.

We have issues right now with China and the South China Sea and Taiwan and the U.S. And the world is on fire. It doesn't matter what side of the argument you're on. I think we can all agree that the world is a very dangerous and violent place right now, right? This technology has the chance to either bring us together or completely rip us apart once and for all, right? Like there's no coming back. How do you solve that problem? It's a very hard problem to solve, but it's only the hardest problem ever.

You have to, you have to raise people. consciousness in step with slow dissemination of the thin or something. How do you stop that temptation? Because all it takes is one selfish kid to ruin it for the rest. Remember, one kid. Man, it's my toy. Probably just show them the good ways in which this technology could be used before you even just tell them that it exists.

Who does that? Who is going to take the moral high run and say, I give to you this technology and you shall use it for peaceful means? Who has that, who has that moral authority? Who's trusted enough in the world to do that? And to say, you will use it for this, but not for that. Who? I think it's probably going to be just a collective move

and something that is like an emergent property of a lot of good people with good minds and good hearts coming together to... Who is it, the United Nations? I think it's happening. Is it, is it society writ large? Well, this may be the N. shot, maybe the entities themselves. I mean, we were with James Fox the other week in Austin, great guy. And I was talking to him, and he was like, I'm making all these documentaries.

And the thing that has come up after decades of doing research on the UFO subject, whenever I'm about to find smoking gun proof of UFOs, I have, you know, a video here, a picture here, you know, an amazing eyewitness, the thing disappears. There's some like a femoral, bizarre thing about that. And then if you, we're talking about the nuclear connection as well, it's almost like there is a counterintel on the part of the NIH themselves where it's like mass surveillance and it is there right when it needs to be there and things will disappear. And it's our most precious assets. It's our nuclear assets. They'll get by our most intense encryption from the NSA. And so that, my answer to that would be like there's, it's like the three bodies.

problem. They know we're going to blow ourselves up, so they clamp down on the science, and they're responsible for a lot of the productive science in the past. Would humanity be okay with an overlord, an NHI babysitter? Is that freedom? Are you really free, then? If an NHI were to come down and say, okay, folks, this is a reality. Ha, ha, ha, we've been kind of playing with you a little bit, but here's reality. You're all going to play well with each other. You're all going to be able to enjoy this free energy and whatnot, but you're going to play by our rules. Now what happens? Now what happens to free will? At that point, humanity is faced with the reality, potentially, that we're not the alpha species, right? And now that we have to do

what something or someone else tells us to do. Is that free manifestation? Is that the ability for us to live our lives the way we want to live our lives or the way we are told to live our lives. But isn't, isn't that already happening in some version of reality with people believing that, you know, end of the world is upon us? Sure. Yeah. Govents. Look, we've been told what to do all the time. We've been told what to do all the time by governments and institutions, social clubs. Absolutely. PTAs. I mean, I can't tell you how many societies are out there to, you know, tell you how to live your life. Well, I mean, look, and they're not all bad, but we're in a place right now that has specific rules on, you know, how one should live their life. But wouldn't these entities, I thought

this is what I thought you were going to say, aren't they already in control? And it's just about our awareness of whether they're control or not. Once I got breakfast with Tom DeLong, who I know you worked with it to the Stars Academy, and he was saying that he thought that a lot of these NHI are not great and that they are like archons from the kind of Gnostic tradition, and they kind of rule over the material world sort of thing. I, you know, I'm always very careful not to share my opinion. Because my opinion doesn't matter.

At the end of the day, what matters is your opinion. It's again, back to the question I had about this little sandbox, right? You've got this double-edged sword. You want to be able to give it to everybody, but not everybody's going to play. All of children are very nice to each other. And we still, I mean, like I said, look at today's right now, around the world, the world's on fire. We still don't play well with each other. Are we ready?

And it's not a yes or no. I mean, I don't know. You answer the way out. Are we ready, truly ready for the truth to come out? to come out. Will we do the right thing or will we do what we have always done in the past? Always, there's not one exception where we didn't, use it against one another. I'd like to believe that it's that we will make a better choice. I think... Can we take a chance? Are you willing to take a chance on it?

The specifics matter in this hypothetical. Yeah. They do. They do. No, but you understand where I'm going with this, right? So we're talking now, we're not, we're beyond really the, yeah, the, everybody says, well, I want to know the truth. Okay, but, but how much of the truth do you want to know and how much should we know? And then what do we do with it and can you be trusted with it, right? So there's a, there's a cascading series of questions that come after that, philosophically speaking. And, you know, it goes back down to the point where the original conversation that Hal Pudoff discussed with you about publicly, I can't believe you did that, about the White House in 2004. Yeah. Are we.

ready to tell the American people the truth about UFOs. Yep. You know, until recently, I'd never seen close encounters of third kind. I found it really interesting that Spielberg got a lot of it right. Well, I was like, wow. Alan Heinek was his consultant. Oh, was Heineck doing that? Yeah, He was He was in it.

Yeah, but he actually gave him. And Jock Belay, I guess. He was a He was a assistant for a while. I mean, I found that fascinating that I was like, wow, some of these observables are like textbook right out of like. He has radiation damage. Yeah, that's right. Yeah, that's right. One piece of that movie outside of there being crates that say TRW and Skunk Works

that I think are pretty fascinating around this topic is out of the craft, not only are these gray aliens, but World War II soldiers come out of the craft. And there's actually a conversation that Steven Spielberg, who probably knew a lot about this topic, you know, grew up writing about this stuff. So clearly very into UFOs. he had a conversation with this guy, Robert Lee Field, I think the creator of Deadpool, and he says, what do you think is more likely? Is it future versions of ourselves guarding us in the present, or is it, you know, random aliens from Zeta reticuli or whatever? And so that was

his view. And if you look at a lot of the databases, like the Edgar Mitchell database, over 50% of the cases report hominid-like creatures. Sure. And so the likelihood of evolutionary convergence on random XYZ planet with totally different conditions feels very low compared to, you know, you're seeing a thing that looks like us. In fact, you're seeing a thing in the gray alien that looks like what we are evolving into. Our ears and nose are becoming vestigial. Our heads are becoming selected for. I guess unless they're trying to just give us a form that can be closer to our understanding of what a living being is, like if a jellyfish appears like But why not just look like us?

Yeah, that's fair. That's fair. Do you think that we'll ever have time travel in our lifetime? And the reason I ask is because there's a guy named Mike Masters. I don't know if you're familiar with him. He's an evolutionary biologist at Montana Tech University. And he's written a couple of interesting books, one called Identified Flying Objects, another one called Extra Tempestrials.

And it's about this idea that actually if he used basic inductive logic around the UFO phenomena, it's more likely us from the future or us time-traveling versions of us than it is extraterrestrials. So the problem with time travel is that in our current understanding of physics in the universe, you can only have that the mass in the universe is definitive, matter. There's only so much matter or energy. There's a limit. It is what it is. It is what it is. from the beginning to the end, that doesn't change. You convert ultimately matter into energy, but there's only so much of it.

And if I were to go back in time, even just me, go back even five minutes ago, I'd be going into a universe where the mass was X and now it's X plus Loo. Even though, because there's already a Lube back there, technically. So you would have to figure out a way to overcome that issue. Two possible ways. to overcome that issue. One is if the universe is information theoretic or something, that would be

one. So it's sort of computational nature. Correct. Especially like in a holographic theory. Correct. Correct. And then number two would be if we are sort of our own universes unto ourselves and we have consistent lifelines, but we can time travel. The whole thing sort of updates back around us. Sure. As we are sort of the universe viewing itself. Right. Is time travel possible? I don't know. You know, in quantum physics, when you get down to space time at the very, very small level, the notion of space time breaks down entirely. Same thing in, let's say, a black hole, right? When you get past that event, when you get towards a singularity,

space and time is twisted so much and that the very notion of space time breaks down. It doesn't make sense. It's nonsensical. Well, first of all, what is time? Let's look at in reality, what is time? What is matter even, right? time is a measurement that it takes to travel from point A to point B. That is the definition of time.

Yeah. Okay. What is matter? Matter is, in essence, something that occupies space. Yeah. Then you have to ask a question. But you could not travel distance and time will still persist. No.

Actually, that depends. No, if you have the total, the universe, you have a total static universe, time does not exist. The only way time exists is if you have a comparison of motion. So once the universe, one of the theories that the universe will eventually expand, expand, expand, and then eventually every thing in even the atoms, the electrons will stop spinning. And when that occurs on the last atom in the farthest reach of the universe, time stops because there's no way to measure time anymore. So let's start with a fundamental basic question of matter,

because time can only be measured with a motion of matter to some degree. So what is matter and what is space? Well, matter occupies space. Can you have space without matter? Yes. Can you have matter without space? No. There must be something for matter to exist within.

Now, let's say, hypothetically, Amar pops into the universe. Nothing around them. Here I am, universe. but I don't know what the universe is because there's nothing else to compare it to. It's just empty space, right? All of a sudden now, you pop into the universe and you see them are, right? Now, you have no idea the notion of distance or scale with just two things in the universe because you both could be the size of an atom or you both could be the size of galaxies.

There's no way to compare, right? And same with distance. You know that he's there, but is there 10 light years? Or is it 10 feet or is it 10 inches, right? Only when Amar starts to move from you, you can start saying there's motion, but you still don't know speed or distance. You just see motion.

Now all of a sudden, I pop into the reality. Now there's three of us, right? And now you can start for the first time looking at scalability. He, Amar can compare me to you and say, Lou is one third denser than you. You are one-third taller than I am, right? And in comparison, then Amar can look at himself, okay, and I'm kind of somewhere in the middle.

There's some baseline and that becomes a unit of measurement. Exactly, exactly, exactly. But the question I have is if you just leave biology sort of in existence, it will decat. Like, there's nothing. Yes, enthalpyan entropy, but that doesn't mean necessarily when that decay is complete, meaning all motion stops, that's what decay is.

It's the movement of separation of matter, atoms from each other, right? That's decay or decomposition. But when that stops, and I mean stops even at the atomic level, electrons cease to spin around the nucleus of an atom. Time stops. There's no reference for time. There's no way to measure it. Time doesn't keep going because there's no reference to measure it. It now becomes nonsensical.

And so that, and there is part of the problem about time because time to some degree is, is an invention of human beings. It is that fourth dimension. You have three-dimensional space, time being a function of the fourth dimension. But time is relative. And we now know that through Einstein observations, relativity looking at, for example, geosynchronous satellites that are orbiting the Earth,

the atomic ashesium clock that is on that spacecraft runs distinctly different than the ground station clock, even though it's the exact same atomic cesium clock. And that's because the mass of Earth is a, affecting the ground station clock more than, more than the spacecraft up there. Speed it which you're moving. Right, that's right. Well, moving as well.

So, so we really need to understand what is matter, what is space, and what is time. Those are the fundamental real elements of the universe. Forget about particles. Yeah. It's just the notion of space, matter, or mass, and time. How put off thinks that maybe the way to, these crafts, UFOs move is by manipulating the space-time metric through promoting gravity basically from a constant to a field variable.

Correct, correct. Do you think that that's possible? That's what we were looking at ATIP. That's absolutely the fundamental theory. That's not a possibility. That's exactly what the mathematical formulas are suggesting. You think in some ways that, you know, like the idea of signature management, like there's some way in which the, what's

being recollected is sort of managed in some way, mediated rather? You know, some people, some people have speculated that when you look at the old UFO pictures and compare them today, there's an evolution in that people are seeing what is in their current construct for them to understand. Yeah. Others suggest now that these technical vehicles have been around for a very long time. One of the photos you showed me there, I was a little bit skeptical of the one that shows a minute, like a little bit of a little bit of rocket. ship because when you look at the back end, by the way, there's been a lot of hoaxes that

have come out. When you look at the end of that rocket ship, there's a cone like this, an exhaust cone. That is for rocket propelled combustion. UAPs don't use that. They have no visible propulsion. What do you guys think about this topic from your perspective and your views on how this is now playing out on the international scale, the international stage of this conversation. Well, I see two things. One is that it's just, it's this cynical kind of condescending treatment of the American people, that they just can't think for themselves. They can't handle the truth. And I actually think a lot of the world right now, you know, organized religion is in decline. And to your point, Lou, this fact, this greater ontological truth is marrying the

religion of today, which is really science, with past religions. because we're looking at something that is observable in a modern context in the form of UAPs. This is studiable. But then it comports with all these religious texts and actually a more magical version of the universe that, you know, is much easier. It's the way skeptics, the way Christopher Hitchens and Bill Maher, you know, these sorts of Sam Harris write off religion. So I think this kind of lame, low energy, you know, early Cold War thinking that it would just be too destabilizing is just dumb at this point. And then there's a side of American national security, which is equally absurd. It's equally like if in the world in which this is real, which I'm pretty bought into this being real, it's like you have this cargo cult of national security apparatus where the left hand can't talk to the right hand.

Nobody has the proper scientific frameworks. And it's like I get deep into some of these things. And like I don't, I feel uncomfortable reporting on some of this stuff that I learned because I'm like, is there anybody there? Like, I'm not trying to poke a hornet's nest gratuitously. I just want the whole thing to shift in a way that's more coordinated for our national security because I'm very pro-America. And so that frustrates me because it's like there's no one to talk to. Like, who's in charge? Like, what's going on?

There clearly have been efforts in the past, a la TTSA, to like get this stuff out, you know, in a safe way. And I actually empathize with some of these people who are involved in those efforts, because they're not the President of the United States, and they were tasked by three-letter agencies to do things that they didn't really wanna do, you know, years ago. But like, it's too little and too late or something. Like, we need to do it now,

and we need to just kind of like reorganize all this stuff. So it's like those two things, like personal meaning and the way everybody should comport themselves and live their lives and view religion and metaphysics. And then this other thing is this American National Security thing, which is it's a tragic. I don't understand what's going on there. As someone who is guided by the phrase seek discomfort in my life,

I think this is probably one of the greatest ways one can seek discomfort to just like reconsider these assumptions that we've made about reality and what this could all be. There is perhaps no better demonstration of the folly of human conceits than this distant image. To me, it underscores our response to me scores our responsibility to deal more kindly with one another and to preserve and cherish the pale blue dot,

the only home we've ever known. I think we have reached the level of maturity that a part of the reason of the phenomenon is becoming a mainstream topic and more and more people are becoming aware of it is because I think we are getting there in terms of our collective consciousness and more people are waking up

And I think events like COVID have accelerated that by by a whole lot that now You know trust in government is an all is it an all-time low trust in in mass media is it an all-time low and I think people are just realizing that Government lies all the time and you know And you know why because government is made of people Yeah government is made of people people lie there's something that that people deceive there's something that came to my mind when you were asking that question. It was Terrence McKenna talking about one time he, the mushrooms told him that we, what we're going through is, right now is, is like the final step before we venture into the, into the stars. Yeah, breakthrough. And it's like, it's a fire

and a madhouse and just all this chaos is happening because, you know, we're on the precipice of just a massive paradigm shift. And I, that's what it, like, intuitively and inside of me, It's even part of my interest in me pursuing this topic is because I really feel like we're at the cusp of something really major happening. And a part of that is your efforts and throughout the past two decades and 2017 with just putting the videos on a platform that was perceived as a trusted one as the New York Times and that story coming out has definitely was the beginning of the shift that were that allows us to be sitting with these reasons. See, I don't. I think you guys are the reasons why we're having. having this conversation because it could have fell in deaf ears and nobody would care. My generation didn't care that much.

Yours did. You're the reason why this topic is where it is today, not me. I may have, you know, struck the match, but this bonfire, this wildfire, that's you guys. You guys are the wind. You guys have taken that little, look, fires are made all the time and they go nowhere. They're extinguished with the next rain or they're extinguished because you don't have enough Tinder, you don't have enough oxygen. This is a raging wildfire now, and it's not because of me.

I can't take credit for that. It's because of what your generation has done with. It's what you... And if strength is... If there's strength in numbers, then I think our numbers are pretty damn good. Like, I think there's way more good people that want good things to happen with disclosure and with more people being aware that reality is so much greater than we ever thought. And also the dissemination of information.

is now exists in a way that it cannot be controlled. And I think this is the new variable that hasn't existed in, you know, in the previous decades as this topic became, you know, as the secrecy of the topic became more and more, like, affirmed. So, so I think now you can't, you can't stop a United pilot from posting a TikTok saying that he just saw something crazy. That's right. You know, like, and I think what was it last week, two pilots in Saudi Arabia, they were flying and they saw some crazy warb action.

They're like, this is not a plane. And they're like right there. They upload the video as soon as they land. Right. And I think those are the things that just, you know, the U.S. government or any government that didn't have to deal with 20 years ago. I will also say, too, I think the, you know, society in some cases, I think, has gotten,

I hate to say the word, dumber in some cases. But I will also tell you, I think it's also gotten a hell a lot smarter. When I was your age, to have a conversation like this, I was too busy. chasing girls working as a bouncer, you know, here we are three people in our nation's capital having a conversation what may be the quintessential topic of humanity. And the where we go as society forward is in your hands. And so for things like that and your audience's hands,

when I get to meet and engage with people like you and your audience, it gives me faith. It restores my faith in our species because you guys and your audience, your generation are, not excuse a pun, but light years ahead of where my generation was. And for that, it gives me a lot of hope that maybe we can handle the truth. Maybe, maybe, you know what, maybe we can find a way where the kids in the sandbox, can play together, right?

If you can't break the toy in 12 pieces, maybe you put it in the middle of the sandbox and rather than letting every child takes turns playing with it, you make a game where all the kids play with it at once. Right? So you don't have to divide the toy. So that's why I was trying to hope we could get to in this conversation.

You know, you have 12 kids in the sandbox, you've got one toy, how do you share it? Yeah, that's be simultaneous. You don't share it. What you do is you create, the game where all of them get to play with it at the same time. And that's how you do it. Are you exhausted of just talking about this

and spending the last few years of your life just being so deep in it that probably the way you, like, I would assume like the, it's almost like connections in your life to other human beings are probably predominantly led by the topic. Like does it ever get to you on a personal level? Wow. Yeah, but not in the way. that you might think, I'm pretty tired.

Physically, mentally, emotionally, I don't know how much more I have because it's been a multi-front battle for me. It's not just an esoteric conversation. It's a conversation that the stakes could be higher. And there are elements there that don't want me to have a conversation at all. And I were working very hard to keep me quiet.

And there's days I wake up, honestly and say, I made a mistake. I never should have done it. I never should have come out and told people. And then there's other times I wake up and get to talk to people like you and I say, okay, it's worth it. It's worth it. No matter what happens to me, it's worth it. But at the end of the day, dude, I'm just human, you know, and I'm not perfect and I get tired like everybody else. I get cranky and angry like everybody else. And, you know, I think my biggest concern is a lot of people look at me and they ascribe a trait to me that's, first of all, undeserving and not earned.

You know, they're like, oh, lose this. This guy has got this, you know, super insight and intellect. And I don't. Just lost and confuses everybody else. He just happened to have access to some information that I think is worth telling because, you know, I was given a job and the results of that were very, you know, I think very, very important for us to communicate to our fellow men and women and our fellow

citizens, but I don't have all the answers, you know. I'm on the same journey as you. You know, and people look at me as like, you know, almost like Moses on the mountain, right? And, you know, let's ask Lou, let's confer with the great oracle. I'm not that guy. I'm not that guy. I'm down on the mountain off the mountain with you. I'm, I'm, we're shoulder to the shoulder, man. That's, you know, I'm looking for. answers just like you. And, you know, always being true to yourself and being honest, being able to admit that and tell people, a lot of people think, well, you know, people, oh, you have all the answers. Well, yes, I have all the answers. You know what, I am special.

And doggone, I deserve to be treated special. That's all horseshit. That's the ego. And you got you got to get rid of that shit, you know. This conversation is far more profound, far more important. And it can't be about any single one person. I'm just a messenger, man. That's it. You know, Don't confuse the message with the messenger because I'm I'm I am far from perfect. I am not I made a lot of mistakes in my life a lot of regrets I have You know, that's what makes me human you know so yeah, Lou are you hopeful? I have two daughters The greatest accomplishment and create and and have the greatest accomplishment of my life I will never come close to ever doing anything like that again.

I have to be hopeful for them. Even if there's some cynicism in me, I have to. You know, I often tell people, I love humanity. It's humans I don't like because on an individual basis it can be very selfish and mean and spiteful and, you know. But humanity writ large, I love. I love. You know, a lot of my feed on social media is really, it's, it sounds silly.

It's embarrassing, but it's looking at dogs and cats and animals doing funny things and, and communicating with their owners. You know, that to me is, that gives me hope. You know, you can turn on the news and see all sorts of terrible things all day long. But then there are some sites where you can turn on to, and all of a sudden it's just, it's just real joy, right? And what is joy? Well, ultimately at the end of the day, it's one of the universe, it's tied to one of the most important things in the universe, which is love. Without love, there's no purpose. Do you think that's the reason whoever they are interested in us?

Do you think it has something to do with our capacity for love? I couldn't tell you. Because there's just always a specific interview that actually Dr. John Mack conducted with some of the witnesses from the aerial school. And it's this girl from Zimbabwe. that was recounting her experience and he goes to kind of like try to get her perspective for why she thinks the visitors were there that she interacted with face to face and she had had telepathic downloads and she goes i think in space there is no love but down here there is and and i remember the first time i watched that i like completely broke down hearing it because something in it just felt like

like truth to me love is love is life and and and and and And the reason why we live is to love, I believe. Now, the problem is in the absence of love, there is fear. And fear drives many things. It drives hatred and animosity and violence. But love is the opposite. Love is, for me, the reason why we even exist. Without it, there is no purpose.

There's no reason. We are automaton's. We are chemicals put together in a soup, and that's it. love is what what gives life meaning and I say that because I've seen both the best of man and the worst of man all within seconds of each other you know it's a shame because on one hand I spent so much

my time ripping apart you know people with conflict I would like to spend the rest of my life helping put people back together Love is very, it is the most important thing out there. If you were speaking to the average STEM student, science and engineering student in America, knowing what you know, how would you tell them to navigate middle school, high school, college, and study the world given the reality of UFOs in an academic context? Because they're probably given the wrong frameworks. I would say sometimes to see clearly you have to call them.

close your eyes. Study not only with your mind, but study with your heart. Because that emotional part of us is just as important, if not even more important, than our intellect. If you want to understand what's going on out there, you have to first understand what's going on in here. There's no way around it. There's no shortcut. Wow. The word imminent, you know, you write, actually in the forward of the book, you say,

this is not meant that there's some sort of imminent threat necessarily. But I'm not going to lie, when I spend time with you, we've spent a decent amount of time together, I get the sense that you're sitting on things that feel like very hard truths. It feels like your existence, like you want to say more, and you feel like you're holding it together. And that's a tough spot to be in.

And so to the extent you can talk about what might be imminent, what is imminent? Time is not a luxury that we can afford. The time has come, we need to start having the conversation collectively. We should have had it a while ago, but we really need to, we really need to start having the conversation. I can't think of a better note to end on. Awesome, guys. It's been an honor and privilege. It's been an absolute honor for us.

Really appreciate it. Absolutely, brother. All right, man, you got it, brother. Thank you for what you guys do, man. Thank you. That was awesome. Got it. Thanks for tuning into this episode.

Let me know what you thought in the comments. And a final announcement, if you are worthy and have made it to this point in the video, I'm starting in Discord. The link is discord.g.g. slash Jesse Michaels, Michaels with no A. Please join it. We're going to be talking about all sorts of crazy stuff, secret science, core UFO truths, and the nature of reality. We explored a lot of themes with Lou in this interview.

But if there's a particularly important one that I'd like to emphasize, it's that the left-hand path, aligning oneself with supernatural forces, without the proper intention, almost always ends badly. It certainly did for Jack Parsons, father of the American space program, who blew himself up.

But it did for Faust, and it did for Prometheus before him. Seeking forbidden knowledge and getting burned is perhaps the most primordial, human story. Seeking the grace of God, on the other hand, is always available and infinitely more powerful. This recalls a quote from the 19th century French author Charles Baudelaire, who wrote that the greatest trick the devil ever told was convincing the world he does not exist. My favorite variation of that quote is the René Girard version. The second trick of the devil is convincing you he

does. While Lou hints sometimes that the world is surrounded by entities that we may consider not super great or bad, they are often paper thin and only as powerful as you make them. So focus on the right things. Until next week, my name's Jesse Michaels. Thank you for tuning in. I'm okay with the idea that, you know, in my lifetime I'm not going to have all the answers and that's okay because that's what makes life worth living.