American Alchemy with Jesse Michels - Top Navy Admiral: "The Ocean is FULL OF UFOs!"

Episode Date: August 24, 2026

Our American Alchemist this week is Rear Admiral Tim Gallaudet (ret.), former acting administrator of NOAA and the Navy's de facto chief oceanographer , and the only flag officer on record who has spoken publicly about seeing the GoFast video on a classified Navy network. Support Tim and check out his book below: "Holding Fast in Heavy Seas" Amazon: https://a.co/d/06yZUTDR Barnes & Nobel: https://shorturl.at/oc3fe Website: https://www.timgallaudet.com/ You can support American Alchemy by signing up with our incredible sponsors below! -------------------------- Incogni: Take your personal data back with Incogni! Use code AMERICANALCHEMY at the link below and get 60% off an annual plan: https://incogni.com/americanalchemy Factor: Head to https://factormeals.com/alchemy50off and use code alchemy50off to get 50 percent off and free breakfast for a year! MudWtr: Start your new morning ritual & get up to 43% off your @MUDWTR with code JESSE at https://mudwtr.com/JESSE! #mudwtrpod Rear Admiral Tim Gallaudet (ret.) served as Superintendent of the Naval Observatory, Acting Administrator of NOAA, and is now a member of the UAP Science Advisory Council reporting to the ODNI. In this conversation, he discloses publicly for the first time: a classified email from a female Navy commander documenting UAP tracking across five to seven ocean hotspots worldwide (likely the source of Tim Burchett's "alien bases" claim); a classified Navy dive unit that experiments with liquid oxygen breathing , the same units Eric Davis says conduct crash retrievals in the ocean; the existence of NURO (National Underwater Reconnaissance Office), so classified even the Navy's chief oceanographer had no read-in; his personal conviction that something anomalous was recovered from the 1962 Bluegill Triple Prime nuclear test; and details of an active Atlantis search involving Victor Vescovo, physicist Max Derakhshani, and proprietary bathymetry data , with a potential deep-sea expedition imminent. -------------------------- Support Our Other Projects Below! Grab Your American Alchemy Merch Here ➤ https://www.americanalchemymerch.com/ Join The American Alchemy Magazine Here ➤ https://americanalchemymagazine.substack.com/ Subscribe To Our Clips Channel (10 Minute Highlights!) ➤ https://www.youtube.com/@UC8ZKTXN9trt5dhixz6b6l6w -------------------------- Instagram ➤ https://www.instagram.com/jessemichelsofficial TikTok ➤ https://www.tiktok.com/@itsjessemichels X ➤ https://twitter.com/AlchemyAmerican Spotify ➤ https://tinyurl.com/jessemichelsspotify Clips Channel ➤ https://www.youtube.com/@jessemichelsclips Apply For Jobs ➤ https://jobs.gusto.com/boards/american-alchemy-3758eda5-237b-45f1-b043-da80a300714e Sponsor Inquiries ➤ [e-mail] Media Inquiries ➤ [e-mail] Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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What would they be for you? Undersea alien bases. Tim Galadet, you were the Navy's chief oceanographer? Yes, and I was a one-star admiral and I saw on the Navy's Secret Network the GoFAST video. Oh my gosh, dude. Wow, oh, oh, oh, oh, that's great. That was the day everything changed for me. There's this teardrop shape looking UAP 20 feet lengthwise or so.

It surfaces out of the water and there's no disturbance of the water. And after a few moments, it just went... went. It looked like it was being lifted, like gravity in reverse. Really? That's basically disclosure right there. I went out in the middle of the Baltic Sea, kind of smack dab between Sweden and Finland. And it looks like the Millennium Falcon. We've located them, but it's hard to actually extract them because it's like they have a life of their own. You lost PPS?

Harold Malmgren talked about actually holding the pieces from this crash and that it came down, I guess, out of the plume of this nuclear blast in 1962. Do you know about this Blue Gild Triple Prime test? I helped Jeff Krukshank. Okay, yeah. The report on it. Oh, wow. Yeah.

Did you think that something anomalous was recovered? 100%. I do. It's like an accumulation of evidence. Yeah, and then these divers claimed that they saw UFO occupants outside these two saucers and that they even took video of it. A recent development, for me, me, and it's exciting. We believe we found a region in the Atlantic with features that

correspond to exactly how Plato described it. Atlantis, maybe? We might be diving on that thing real soon. I have an admiral here. I have Tim Galadette. Is it fair to say you were basically the Navy's chief oceanographer? That's right. You were an administrator. of Noah as well, the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration. I owe you an apology. I don't know if you know about this or what I'm about to say. No, I don't.

When you testified before Congress, you're behind me. I was sitting behind you. And like an idiot, I was chewing gum. And I deserved to be, you know, slapped up the backside of my head or something for that. Because, you know, it just wasn't cool. I didn't know I was being televised. I know I was in the shot. So I apologize.

You were front row, right? I was front row. I thought I was cut off. Yeah, so I was like the last guy. All the cameras are at an angle. Yeah. So there's a lot of shots where you're right there.

Well, I apologize. No. Publicly, I'm shaming myself. As far as I'm concerned, it was a good look. You have a very interesting family history, and I want to talk about it. Sure. Who is Peter Wallace Gallaudet? Oh, how about that?

Yeah, he is, was a grandson of the original French Huguenot immigrant, Pierre Gallaudet. And Peter Wallace ended up. serving in the Battle of Trenton and Revolutionary War, fighting in it under Washington, and then Washington became president. He was the personal secretary for Washington. So, yeah, how about that? That's amazing. It's special, yeah.

It's a pretty illustrious history. Not bad, yeah, close to a president. The president. A lot of people think about, you know, somebody with your credentials being, you know, a former rear admiral, and they think about UFOs and they think that UFOs are not. super serious and not maybe worthy of the attention of somebody of your sort of caliber. What brought them on your radar initially? Yeah, well, two things.

First, I was the superintendent of the Naval Observatory, and I had a team of astrophysicists who I learned from, and it gave me this appreciation for how big the universe is. Every galaxy, our galaxy, has 100 billion stars, which is really beyond human comprehension. And now we know the observable universe has maybe over a, over-timore universe. trillion galaxies. And then because life's a property of the universe that we're here and it's very diverse, why would it not be elsewhere? And that's what I work on the Galileo project for Avi Loeb. And he usually describes the situation like that where it would really be extraordinary if other life didn't exist, other intelligent life. That's what would be really anomalous. So I was

just very open-minded to that fact that we could be visited. And by, off-world civilizations. And then, of course, it kind of clenched to me when I was a one-star Admiral and I saw on the Navy's Secret Network the GoFAS video. It was passed by an email. Oh, God!

Oh! Woo-hoo! Roger. They're shooting shooting at here. Oh, are you box moving target? It was passed by an email dealing with the exercise where it was filmed. the exercise was going on off the U.S. East Coast.

Ryan Graves was one of the pilots flying off the USS Theodore Roosevelt. And I received an email about these UAP attached was the Go Fast video. And there was a real concern because this is a training exercise where all the pilots have to get certified to land on the aircraft carrier. And that you can't deploy overseas unless those things are done along with other things. And so this is very compressed, high pressure. And they were, the email mentioned that they were considering. shutting down the exercise. After what happened is, Ryan talks about this,

there was a section of F-18s flying, doing some training mission, and that's when one of those weird Cubanosphere UAPs split the section. There were two aircraft from my squadron, VFA 11, and we flew, or excuse me, they flew, took off as a flight of two. That means they're essentially flying in a formation like this. And as they hit the area,

one of these objects went right between the aircraft. If you're not an aviator, it's hard to appreciate how dangerous that is. You want nothing close to you if you're in, you know, two aircraft flying in formation, very close. And nothing should be within miles. You know, you would want to have anticipation of anything in the air space being, you know, miles away.

And then when all of a sudden the pop-up UFO splits a section, everyone went crazy. And that's why the two-star sent that email to everybody. And of course, I knew right there, we don't test advanced tech in training ranges during a very compressed training exercise. And we have, we have instrumented test ranges for that. And I knew all of our adversary, uh, tech and threats, uh, because I had top secret SCI clearance. And I, so I knew that wasn't ours either. Just every now and then we'll have like Chinese trawlers with sigant gear, spying on

our exercise. The exercises, there's, there's nothing like foreign there. So it was clearly not foreign. And I knew right there, that was, that was the day everything changed for me. And, and it was just, well, something you'll just never forget. When your whole paradigm just totally changes in one day. Wow. And so you received an email and then the email was deleted.

So this is interesting. And Jay Stratton has since confirmed it because I believe he was somewhere in the naval intelligence community and either the predecessor of or I forgot exactly when he stood up the UAP task force. But what the story he told me what happened is when it was deleted, they were still not sure whether it was adversary tech or off world. anomalous. So that's why they deleted it from everybody's computer because adversary tech, foreign military capabilities are always very highly classified. We don't want we keep that at T.S or higher because we don't want them to know what we know and we don't want them to know how we know what we know. And now I've been involved with all many programs like that, especially undersea programs. And those will never see the lie today. That's just

that relates to this whole UAP over classification thing. But yeah, and so, and I knew this too, because I've seen, there's a protocol what happens when you, it's called spillage, I believe, where if you release information at a certain classification level and you release it at a lower classification level network, you have to basically clean it up. And there's a whole protocol to do the cleanup. And I realized when the email was deleted, that's what occurred. And I thought, oh, this must be TSR higher. And this knowledge of these. UAP and that's why I just never said anything about it until I left the government. Wow. Fascinating. So yeah, it must have spooked you the fact that he got an email about a UFO and then the email was deleted. Yeah. And then you kind of, so you find out later through Jay Stratton, who's ran the UAP task force and his, I believe, former Office of Naval Intelligence. Is that right? Yeah, he's worked in a number of intelligence capacities. And so he, yeah, he worked. And we worked in the same circles and knew the same senior naval intelligence. professionals. And then the interesting thing about GoFast is that's probably one of the more, so there are three videos that came out kind of alongside the 2017 New York Times article with Leslie Kane, and you

have GoFast, Nimitz, and Gimble. And GoFast is kind of one of the most controversial of those three. Is that right? Because there are people in Arrow that say it's just parallax, which is essentially movement of the FleerPod, like of the tracking system. Like typical parallax would be put, you know, finger in front of both your eyes and then you close one eye, you open the other eye, it looks like your finger's moving, but it's staying in the same place. Is that, do you think that that's not the case? Then it's definitely not paralyzed. So it wasn't going very fast.

That's true. They called the go, I don't know how I got the name go fast. I don't dispute that because, yeah, the angle of where it's looking at the object and it appears to go fast because of the water underneath it, but it was high above the water and that's why it looks like that. I don't dispute that. What I dispute is the fact that this was a spherical object that had no flight control

services or means propulsion, traveling in an intelligently controlled manner, and it was in formation, by the way. I believe there was four. So that's the context no one talks about. And that's why, after my hearing,

John Kuzlowski made some statements about that during his hearing, inferring that it wasn't very anomalous because it wasn't going very fast. They go fast looks like an object flying very fast over the water, very close to the water. A trick of the eye called parallax makes it look like the object is moving much faster. He didn't cite the other instances, the observations I just stated. And by the way, the context also was that Ryan was out there. They were seeing dozens of these

things. And you can hear the pilots on the gimbal, for example, and the go fast. So there's another thing. Why did, I don't want to spare it John because I think Arrow is moving in a new direction now, But why didn't they acknowledge the fact with the pilots went crazy? The audio of the GoFast video, you hear them. They're trying to lock it in and they lock it in. They go, got it. You've heard it all. Yeah, whoa, got it.

Yeah, I mean, they're in the airspace. They know what's normal. And they're clearly excited because this thing is not normal. Well, that's always my question is like, unless the guy's acting, it's like, that feels an irrational reaction to something anomalous. Yes. And then Ryan flew with these guys. He knows the guy whose voices it is. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

You know, they flew together with squadron mates. And clearly this was a buzz in the squadron. They all knew these things were out there. They had no explanation. None of the intel officers on the carrier. The carrier has a whole intel team. They didn't know what the heck these were. Yep.

So anybody who tries to dispute the GoFast video is trying to skew the conversation. It'd be great if that guy at some point came out. Because with Nimitz, you have all of this. You have people. And then you also have. Exactly. Yeah. So just today, as we record, the principal deputy director of the office in a of national intelligence.

Okay. Aaron Lucas just sent out a memo per the president's directive saying that if anybody has information regarding UAP and they had to sign an NDA, that the NDAs will be waived. And they can come out and make reports to the Pursue team in the Department of War or, or Arrow. So that's significant. And so these pilots, they, they, they, I don't know if they had to sign NDAs, but now this, that directive right there is, every day, something is happening where the stigma is just being destroyed. And those pilots might want to come out. The only reason they're doing it because they don't want it to potentially harm their career. But those days are nearly over.

Seems like it. Yeah, if anything, it seems like a career boost. It's like all these opportunities to, like, get involved in. kind of avant-garde research and, you know, academic institutions. And, you know, I think those days are over, hopefully. Well, if you're a career naval aviator, maybe not. That's, sure. But again, it's starting to get acknowledged at the president's level and the Secretary of Defense with the Pursue files. So who knows, that might change entirely. Yeah. And then it does feel like certain whistleblowers are not treated well. People like David Grush and, you know, Dylan Borland and Matthew

Brown, some of these guys don't seem like they're treated well after the fact. Well, this, so there is a large part of the IC that's entrenched and, you know, and they're still either part of the legacy program or at least the fact, it still exists that much of this information that remains classified and they don't want to see classified information revealed, which is fair, because some of it might involve our own collection capabilities. We don't want that out there. Yeah, but it's wrong that any of those whistleblowers have to be treated or treated poorly or harmed even professionally. Yeah, I agree. I think ontological truth is different than a trade secret that can confer a tactical advantage. Well said.

All I try to do on the show is cover ontological truth. And I think same with, you know, anybody coming out saying like this fundamental thing that people should should know about because it deals with metaphysics and physics and things that should be taught in academia like no one should ever. The nature of reality. It's a nature of reality. Yeah. I'm with you. I'm glad you said that because that, yeah, and it's unfortunate how toxic some of this has become because there's

different individuals in this space have different agendas and it has created divisions and so many people question other people. and just for the record, that is the only reason I'm in this game. I don't make any money from this. I don't get any advantage. I just want the truth. I've been given through my credentials a voice, and my voice is like yours. I just want to promote the truth. That's amazing.

Yeah. No, it's a tough topic. There's a lot of infighting, a lot of interpersonal dynamics. You'd think that it should be us against the world, and it's often kind of us against us and human nature yeah it's unfortunate it's um you know it's i think a rising tide raises all ships and you know just there you go i like canonical terminology yes sir yeah exactly no pun intended it's true though i i i totally agree i wanted to take a step back and talk about almost the intellectual firmament for even thinking that there might be non-human intelligence uh in our waters and there's some

great books uh you know ivan sanderson you know invisible residents And there's a whole history of experiences. You have, obviously, Richard Dolan has written a whole history of, you know, U.S.Os. Great book. Yeah. Unidentified submersible objects. A lot of Navy ships in that book. There you go.

A Navy ship reporting them, yeah. Can you set the scene for a person who just thinks about UFOs is coming from space and they have no idea about this kind of waterborne history of UFOs and UFOs? Well, right. And so it's interesting because right now, Today's episode is sponsored by Incogni. One thing that stuck with me from years of interviewing people inside classified programs, intelligence, and very frontier science,

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If you're a fan of the show, you probably care about personal privacy. This is one of the best ways I've found to anonymize myself online. Right now, you can use code American Alchemy at incogni.com slash American Alchemy for 60% off an annual plan. Thank you so much to Incogni for sponsoring today's episode. So it's interesting because right now, we don't, our understanding of things, and certainly engineering, traveling light years to other galaxies is something that just is not possible with what we know. So that's out there.

And then the other thing is that our Earth is old enough to have had a civilization evolve and then have it, if it were to maybe want to avoid any kind of cataclysms like asteroids and impacting the Earth and all the just the... terrible weather and tsunamis and things that could destroy civilizations, the length of time of our Earth's, I guess, being in existence, could, could, it's foreseeable, and this is called the Salarian hypothesis, you know it, where some, these civilizations could have gone under the ocean and moved their entire infrastructure or even within mountain ranges in the U.S., probably less likely, but and then have the geologic record basically destroy any evidence of their existence

and have them still be resident somewhere, right? That's possible in terms of the time frame. Yeah. So they think about we're 4 billion years in existence. So what if an advanced civilization evolved after a billion years is very possible? So that's why that kind of lends credibility to the hypothesis that possibly these UAP come from under the oceans. But what's more interesting is the data. So Richard Dolan anecdotally shares all these reports of USOs, UFOs coming out and going into the water.

And it turns out I'm privy to a very interesting piece of communications. And I've talked to around this once on one show previously, and this is the first time I'll really go into it, mostly because I feel empowered by that new PDNI memo about UAP information. Okay. The whole intent is we don't want to withhold any of this information from the president. Okay, well, let's talk about this email. I have a friend who worked in the military, and he was deployed to a joint task force overseas,

and so joint meaning there was different services in there, and there was an intelligence officer from another service, so he was the J2 in the task force. And one night, he pulled my friend into their building, and they have a skiff, and he showed him two things. One was a video and it was attached to an email. And like me and the GoFast, a very similar situation. The video he saw was, I think, from an infrared sensor.

It was fairly low and was over the ocean. And it was observing this teardrop shape looking UAP that might have been 20 feet lengthwise or so. And it was traveling under the ocean water. And we could see it clearly under the water moving along, waves over the top of the surface. And then at one point, it surfaces out of the water, and there's no disturbance of the water. It surfaces out, keeps going. And then it stopped to hover.

And it seems to behave like it knew was being observed. And after a few moments, it just went vertical all the way up beyond any sites, basically, of the sensor. A sensor couldn't even track it. And it looked like it was being lifted, like gravity in reverse, you know, like a, a, inverted fall. It moved so fast. And the intelligence guy looked at my friend and said, how does that thing fly? My friend had an engineering degree, and that's why the guy asked him this question, the intel officer, the J2. And he said, I just don't know. Let me think about that. He goes, yeah, well, think about that. Why don't you sit here at the terminal? I've got to go

pack because I'm leaving. He was redeploying after the next day. And so he let him look at the whole length of the email. And here's what this email said. It was from a commander. a female commander in naval intelligence. And it was to this long distro of a couple hundred people, a hundred people maybe, you know, nearly that many. And my friend was very perplexed at this because normally in the U.S. military, your email domains are, you know, my name, then at, and for us. Navy.

Or same with the Army or whatever. And then there's OSD is usually just at. I think it's like mail.mill. So I know all these domains. He looked at all these domains on these email addresses and he didn't recognize any of them. And they were not only, they weren't just three like us.

d.nobn, Navy.mill. There were four. And they were all X'd out. Xx. XX. XX. XX. XX.

XX. And he was, first he was just looked at that and thought, what the hell is this program? Because he was on some system that had a color background that he'd never seen before. And I don't know if you're probably not aware of this. But when you are on a network, and you're on a workstation.

You can sometimes transfer between classification levels. You just change the input to the screen. And so on class systems, you usually have a big green banner. Top secret is red. Top secret is yellow. And this thing had some weird colors you'd never seen before. So he knew this must have been some compartment of program or whatever. I mean, that's his only, and in these agencies, whatever they were, you know,

where these people were from. It just didn't. But so that struck him as strange. So, and the attachment's that, that crazy UAP. And then this female commander goes and says basically, you know,

she refers to the attachment and she makes the following statements. She says, we've been tracking these for some time. We still don't know their origin or intention. And we want to get you up to speed on this. Because right now, all the agencies that have access, or have this information.

Everyone was kind of keep it to themselves because they think it might be part of some SAP, special access program, and they're afraid that sharing it might remove their ability to continue to have access of the information. So that, and that happens in the government all the time, the stove piping of people wanting to protect their own rice bowls.

So she made this statement that we needed to do more collaboration to find out what these are, okay? And I'm sending this email to all you, our partners, to encourage data, data sharing and more discovery. And then she said, these objects,

we see them in the ocean more than, more than elsewhere, coming in and out of the ocean. And they seem to be occurring in five to seven areas of the world with more frequency than others. Okay. That's the gist of the information. So a while back,

you might have heard Tim Burchett make this claim, yeah, someone came to me there's five to seven alien bases, right, undersea alien bases. We have a higher propensity of sightings around these five or six, I believe, deep area, deep water areas. Now, when he said that, I thought, I've never heard this. I was the oceanographer of the Navy. This is probably a stretch.

And what I think happened is someone who'd seen that email is the one who talked to Birchett. Wow. So the woman did not say they were undersea alien bases. She just said, we see them coming in and out of the water a lot, and they're usually in five to seven areas of the world with consistency. Yeah. So that's knowledge right now that hasn't been put together in terms of two plus two. With a lot of these Congress people, you know, they'll make these big claims. And it's just really hard to know what the source is and where it's coming from.

So this is really, it's good to know that that might be the source. Yeah. And you can see that that was a very privileged email. and that's why that source probably didn't want to be named. But he felt like so many people have done to me. He felt, well, okay, this congressman, he's a champion for this. I'm going to at least tell him and let me make sure he knows. So I think, you know, when you put those two together.

And then the third line of, okay, UAP is in the ocean that you asked me about, I've had several submarine officers come to me, two and one enlisted, and they all reported to me these instances where they were all of a sudden, encountering an object under a water that was closing rapidly, more rapid than normal other and adversary submarines. You know, had signatures of a torpedo closing rapidly, constant bearing, decreasing range. Three people all had this and the subs did an emergency deep maneuver where they just all of a sudden,

okay, this is what you train to do if an adversary torpedo is inbound. And then in each case, whatever the object was, it slowed and it went behind. them to kind of get out of there. It's called going into your baffles where your sonar can't see it. So they actually purposely evaded and then then left the area. And torpedoes can't do that. No. They have a very strict profile.

It's basically close as rapidly as you can. Forward. To eliminate the target. So that's not, yeah, it's not, we don't have technology that does that. And so, and all three of those folks. And then I even had another guy tell me he had a similar counter. or he was an acoustic specialist, retired as a captain, was on one of the Navy's acoustic intelligence ships off Japan.

In two cases, they also observed these anomalous objects. And all of them called me, because they, after my testimony, to say, hey, I want you to know that there's some there there. And these are very credible people. That's amazing. Yeah, I mean, you have Alexander Wiggins we can talk about because he's sort of on record. He's an example of. Well, I'm proud of that.

actually because he he he came out because of me he saw that I testified he he looked me up and sent me a note and we got on the phone and talked and and I encouraged him to engage the hill and now you see you testified and what what was his case exactly well I'm pretty sure forgive me if I screw this up but I think he was on the bridge of the Omaha when that's that one object spherical object goes into the water off southern California in 2019 a self-fluous luminous tick-tac shaped object emerged from the ocean before linking up with three other similar objects. The four then disappeared simultaneously with a high synchronized near instantaneous acceleration. And then he shared with me a video of when he was on the USS Jackson, same region,

and they were seeing multiple erratic moving UAP at night. And he told me this. He said, we see these things so often out there, that were desensitized to it. I believe that. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, they call it the silent service for a reason, you know. And so a lot of people see a lot of things, and then they sort of keep quiet. Well, so that's just, Alejandra wasn't, he was not a submariner.

Okay. Or Alex. Yeah. But he was on these surface ships. But yeah, the submarine service is called the science. They call that the suns. That's right. That's right.

That's right. But ultimately. So that, what I mean, I think it's a good thing to point out that Alex, you know, he's He testified eventually because he was encouraged by people like me. And this is good. So now he testifies and others say those are going to come forward. And you see this is a movement. It's not slowing down.

Yeah, that's awesome. Yeah, hopefully it kind of snowballs and we get some official statements made. And, you know, so it's occurring. We kind of cross the Rubicon. In 2013, I believe, in Aguadilla, you have this in Puerto Rico, you have this, you know, three-minute video of a transmitting. object, an object that seems to descend into the Atlantic Ocean and then come out as well. Yeah, and of course, all the debunkers have tried to do just that on the video.

Ultimately, just like all the Pursue files, yeah, we need more data. We need other sensors to corroborate that. But it appears to be another example of Transmedium UAP encounter. And so, yeah, and I think that's what we want to do in the UAP Science Advisory Council that I'm on now that reports to the OD&I, is we want to. analyze these videos and data more to get a better grip on their their actual velocities and movements and trajectories and understand better how they do what they do what they are and then ultimately what their intention is one of my favorite cases is nova scotia in 1960 because often with a lot of these you know unidentified submersible objects it's just the object in this case it involves

occupants possible pilots maybe non-human intelligence sort of driving or steering and then I think repairing the object. That's right. That's right. Yeah. So this is in a book by an author named Chris Stiles who went and researched these Royal Canadian Navy divers. And it was all in the aftermath of an exercise, a mind-sweeping exercise called Sweep Clear Five. And that's the title of the book. And he investigates all this and evidently, and there was sightings of UAP going into the water at night. And then these divers claimed that they saw UFO occupants outside these two saucers on the seabed and that they even took video of it. And so interesting, I'm going to make a couple of plugs.

There's this one researcher in Canada who contacted me recently, and he's investigating that. He's doing FOIAs or the equivalent in Canada to try to get that video, basically. His name is Brian Fitzpatrick. and I'm going to do a quick, we can go down this rabbit hole later. But the reason he first started investigating cattle mutilations. And let's talk about that later, but he has a book called The Operator. Okay. And it's an astonishing book.

I think it's the biggest reveal about cattle mutilations out there. And so he's a real diligent researcher. He used to be, he was a 20-year homicide cop. And so he knows the, he understands the forensics of these kind of things. things. But ultimately, Brian is researching this whole topic of the Nova Scotia UAPs. And again, you read the book and there seems to be evidence, not hard evidence, but eyewitness testimony of these UAP in the water. And like you said, occupants, it's amazing. You think about a movie like the abyss, you know, and it's, yeah, it's the abyss in reality. Yeah, I wonder how much,

and I believe it was like, they didn't use non-human intelligence, but it's very similar. It was it. Yeah, what was the name of it? Non-terrestrial intelligences. That was it. And it was these kind of like luminous objects in the deep sea. And they would sort of. And you got to wonder, you know, with people like Spielberg and James Cameron, like, are they getting little, you know, whispers in their ear from, you know, real sources? Right, right.

And in fact, there's a Reddit thread out there. And I don't know what to make of it, but let's just start, everything's starting to add up. And I think this guy's name is Condor. man. Okay. And he went to, he made a big statement. I mean,

this is Reddit, okay. I'm not, I'm beyond of what I know, actually. Sure, sure, sure. But as we start lining things,

ducks in a row, okay, another duck in a row is this guy who's, who's made statements that those five to seven places where, the world's oceans where you, we see UAP coming in and out of the water, that, there are locations where they reside in HIs and they're, they manufacture their own UAPs every time they come out.

Everyone's a new one. And he has a new one. And he has, And he had some other wild statements. I'm not going to go into him here. But every now and then I'm finding more and more about the ocean connection. This was a, I believe, a 4chan whistleblower. Oh, was it?

Yeah, he claimed to work on the program. That was it. That was it. He said that basically he implied that every time you mention Lazar, you get in trouble because he was this sort of, you know, leaker of, you know, real stuff from the program and that these objects are made in mobile construction units. Yeah. So you have things going around under the ocean. and then they're made for purpose.

So they're made to spec in different shapes and forms in order to carry different payloads possibly. And it's just, I mean, I know for clarity, you're just relaying what you saw on. I can't. You're not endorsing it. I have no knowledge of that. That is so interesting. Well, yeah. And as I said, I only start going down this now because of that email I mentioned, which I know my source is credible.

and so I'll definitely swear to that. But then as you project that forward, yeah, who knows. Anyways. Well, there have to be, you know, yeah, because I think the Burchett thing where he's walking around, he's getting interviewed by some TMZ person, and he goes, yeah, there are five, you know, spots where these things seem to show up more than not. That gets translated on Twitter to like alien bases. Oh, yeah, yeah.

So, but I do think they're hot spots. And we mentioned, you know, off the coast of Japan. And I just recently interviewed the defense minister there, former defense minister, and Hamada San. Yeah, I might have been at, I know that I gave a virtual presentation to this UAP caucus in the parliament or diet of Japan a year or two ago. And then just recently I was interviewed in a Japanese media outlet called The Liberty. Oh, cool. And you know now the prime minister of office is setting up a UAP investigation unit. So Japan's, yeah, there's a lot of changes recently.

Oh, yeah, they're very kind of forward-looking on the whole topic. How'd that go? How'd that go? Oh, it was amazing. It was really cool. It was such an honor to be there and such a beautiful experience. Were you in Japan? I was in Japan.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I love that country. It's amazing. Did you? Not much. I was on a ship that was at sea a lot, but we were stationed in Japan. Oh, Ocinawa. No, Yokoska.

Oh, Yucosca. Okay, cool. Amazing. Love that, love the people, love that place. It's got an incredible. history when it comes to UFOs. There's a mountain called Mount San Gunmori and it's in the Fukushima Prefecture and Fukushima of course is famous for its 2011 nuclear disaster.

But UFOs were reported to show up around the nuclear disaster. I know. I've seen the video. Yeah. And there's a, there's a mountain with the, at the top of the mountain, there's a museum dedicated to UFOs. In San Gunn Mora, yeah. No, did you go there? I went. Oh my gosh. That's great. Really? There's also a guy and I'll shut up about Japan at some point, but there's a guy, Takano Joussen. He's a NASA historian. And he has met Edward Teller. He's met Jesse Marcel Jr. He's interacted with Herman Oberth, you know, the father of German rocketry, like all these amazing kind of graybeards. And he has these NASA, you know, rocket boosters and capsules on loan from NASA for a hundred years. And he has a museum

dedicated to American space history and UFOs. And he claims to have a... Is it in Japan? He's in Japan. He claims to have a piece of the Roswell crash with that. And I don't know if it is... Did you look at it? I did.

It was in encased. And I just, you know, I was like, there was definitely a translation barrier. And I was asking about the, you know, the extent of the testing. And to me, it's, you know, similar to what you read on Reddit. I just can't endorse the thing. But it was amazing. Yeah, that's really neat. Jesse, wow.

It was cool. But, okay. Speaking of, you know, alien bases or hotspots, if you had to, you know, just pinpoint hotspots around the world, one might be the South China Sea. Are there others that like, would you, if you had to, if you had to pick like five to seven top candidates, what would, what would they be for you as far as hot spots? I'm not super knowledgeable about this, but there's one in the Atlantic. I'm almost certain the Bermuda Triangle or what have you. And then Southern California seems to be, the Catalina Channel seems to be a hotspot. Yeah. That's just from my own, I would say less than educated knowledge.

I'm not a dedicated UAP researcher, but I'm starting to be one, if you will. What do you say? Well, yeah, I mean, Preston Dennett wrote a book called Undersea UFO Base. I read it. I read it. See, yeah, that's where, unfortunately, you get into total speculation. Again, not to hammer him. It's an informative book because all those eyewitness accounts are serious.

These are people who saw things. But at the end of the book, I find some fault with what he did. He went and there's this whole line on social media somewhere about this feature off of SoCal called Sycamore Nol. Yeah, point d'em off the coast. Yep, that's right. And he puts it in his book. And ultimately, that area has been so thoroughly researched. There was even a peer-reviewed marine geology publication on that.

And it was surveyed extensively, and there's the geologists all come up with various theories about how it was formed. But when he speculates that's the undersea base, he's totally off the mark. Got it's been so thoroughly surveyed. It's just not. I mean, it was also sub-bottom profilers that go under the seafloor to look at the geologic structure. There was no alien base there. Yeah, because I occasionally surf at Point Doom. And I, you know, I had some friends who I actually, I believe,

mutual friend you know will o'brien at ulysses yeah that's right so i was like will we got to get your rover and you know put it down there and let's see and we did a little bit of preliminary research and but for the context for the audience this is somebody with the startup who builds these amazing deep sea rovers and uh we did the research and we're like i don't think there's anything it's not even worth the resources to like yeah it wouldn't have been unfortunately but still holding out hope maybe for catalina well hey look at this i have uh right and so this is how common this is becoming. So my middle daughters at the Naval Academy, she's a midshipman and very proud of her. Congrats. Thank you. And she's studying oceanography, just like her parents. And her, she swims on the swim team like her parents. And so it's fun to see. But her teammate, her teammate has a father who's just retired as an F-18 pilot, formerly F-14 pilot, so Navy Captain. And they live in Pacific Palisades. And they live in Pacific Palisades. And they, and they,

They've seen UAP over the channel, lit it in formation, several white lights, clearly operating under intelligent control. And it was funny because when we first met, he'd known that I speak up about this. And the family shared me, oh, yeah, we see these things. Yeah, there are a lot of reports around Catalina. I'm a big fan of this sort of mid-century inventor named Thomas Townsend Brown. And he had a UFO experience on Catalina Island. What happened? He was being approached.

This is, by the way, his daughter relaying. this. He passed away in 1985. But he was being approached by this orb. Yes, and I know that he was that spot. He approached him. It actually approached him.

And he said that he learned so much standing there with that ball of light. And he said he went to work immediately. And he worked. That was the beginning of his life's work. And I guess he then sort of approached

the orb and they had this like almost like communion moment with this sort of glowing orb and according to his daughter that was when he downloaded his life's work and he had a lab in Pasadena at the time and he he went back to the lab and he just you know really started working on this he was actually became a navy man after that you know this is interesting because now i'm on this uap science advisory council reporting to odi and i and we're starting to dig into all these pursue files and there's this one report that came out about these law enforcement agents that are at a national security site somewhere in the West, and they have all these interactions with orbs, and one's even a mothership of orbs that launches other orbs from it. And this is something actually that

Avi Leibar-Chair wrote about in one of his medium articles, because these are legitimate witnesses and then John Kozlowski for the record stating that a large percent of these orbs just have no explanation. There's nothing that we have that we that we could it's not weather it's not some technology it's not some laser effect they're they're seriously just not sure what these are so that that's he so we're starting to look at ways to describe how do you produce these orbs what are they and then we're starting to research these because they're seen all everywhere all the time. And yeah, so that's a serious line of investigation.

I'm going to go under this, as a member of this council, to go meet with two engineers that, off the coast, they've been researching off the coast of Long Island. Jerry and John Tedesco. Oh, yeah, Tedisco brothers. Yeah, they have some serious data of orbs offshore, some going into the water. And so now this is a legitimate line.

of research for us. So I'm going to go up there. Actually, I'm not going to go there. We're going to go to Maine, and that's just the location we're going to meet. I'm going to review their data and hopefully share that with the rest of the council and start doing a little more, a little more. I mean, the council has a number of different types of psychologists, engineers, physicists, oceanographers like me.

So we're going to all go after this and see if we can improve our understanding what these are, actually. That's amazing. Well, they were a big part of tracking the Jersey drone flap in 2024. Trump made a really interesting, you know, as Trump tends to do kind of sheets from the hip. And after that Jersey drone flap, he was like, we know where they're coming from. They're coming from a garage. Look, our military knows where they took off from. If it's a garage, they can go right into that garage.

They know where it came from and where it went. something strange is going on for some reason they don't want to tell the people. And it seemed to be implying that, you know, he thinks that they're coming from underwater. And there were sightings, of course, around that time, off the coast where it seemed like these UAPs were emerging from the water.

Yeah, I don't know. Actually, that's a big question mark for me, the Jersey drones. I don't know. Their nature. I have a good friend named Greg Skiduto, who now works with Ryan Graves at Americans for Safe Aerospace. And he wrote a terrific article. It got published.

in the Rolling Stone about the New Jersey drones. I encourage your listeners to check it out. But still, it's just still a real unknown there in terms of at multiple levels, local, state, even federal. Trump, yeah, he made the claim, but he didn't really back it up with any evidence or any further elaboration. So I'm not sure what to make of it. Yeah. You are looking for Atlantis, maybe? Yeah.

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curious about trying mudwater, the starter kit is the move. Right now you get up to 43% off, free shipping and a free rechargeable frother. When you use code jesse at mudwater.com. That's M-U-D-W-T-R.com. Now back to today's show. You are looking for Atlantis, maybe? Yeah. Okay. I'm on an NDA for this. I can't say a whole lot more, but I'm with a team of very esteemed archaeologists and geologists that we believe we found a region in the Atlantic that is, fits all the descriptions of Plato's dialogue in Plato's dialogues where he talks about Atlantis at length with actual dimensions of the width of the canal system. and other features of it that I won't go into

because I don't want the location revealed. But we believe we found an area. We have some proprietary bathymetry and it's very high resolution. And the region that he points to, basically, there are a lot of features there that correspond to exactly how Plato described it. So we're in the, just today,

I had the most amazing development. I can't say who, but a very, very well-funded researcher with a very high-end ship and a remotely operated vehicle is, wants to take the brief. He wants to hear the... Wow. Yeah. And this has happened today.

And I'm thrilled because this guy could make this expedition happen this summer. That is so exciting. I know. I know. I mean, I'm praying because we, we, he's got a ship and he could, and this ship does, he's, he owns it. You can do whatever he wants with it. And if he really feels a need, we might be diving on that thing real soon. That's amazing, man.

Well, if you need a water boy, let me know. Right. Well, anyways, yeah, more to follow. Very, very cool. Can I speculate and can you, you don't have to say anything as to where this thing might be? Well, let me just, I think this whole thing, topic of Atlantis is a lot like UAP, where it's just sort of gotten very conflated with all these other. theories and whatnot. And I think when you just walk it back to the time frame he alludes to, it's not impossible at all. And then we come up with the geologic theory to explain rapid

geological subsidence over over a period of just a few years rather than millennia that could cause a whole city to submerge a lot like an island, right? So there's all the, all the physics and all the, All the human history. We're not talking a million years ago or a billion. We're talking within the span of human civilization. Before Egypt. Yeah. Yeah.

Well, pre the 90s, you know, if anyone were to say that the civilization was as old as Quebecly Tepe said it was. They think they were crazy. That's right. And so the history of archaeology is the history of things getting older. And it's like Moore's Law or something where a number of transistors on a chip. It's basically a law you could basically come up with because things that are lower in the sediment layer are also generally older.

Yeah. And the archaeology itself as a field is only 200 years old with the, you know, discoveries of cities of Assyria and Babylonia 200 years ago. Yeah. It's fascinating, huh? It is fascinating. And so I think the idea, not necessarily, Atlantis is a placeholder term that comes from, you know, Solon relaying this myth to Plato.

I think a lot of people discount that because it was told that this mythos, festival of Tamaus and Cretaceous, when in fact, you know, I think a lot of Plato's stuff was probably actually ontologically true and real. And a good example of something like this is Troy was supposed supposedly fictional. And Heinrich von Schleiman, this kind of amateur German businessman found it. Yeah. And I like that because exactly it's someone who's not mainstream in archaeology who, and he find this. In fact, here, the person who is leading this research at, effort. Again, not going to name his name, but he's a career emergency room MD.

Whoa. He's not, has nothing to do with archaeology, but he, and it is a good story. Because it takes people who are outside the system to have a more, you know, practical view of, and this is, this occurs in all fields. So he, because he's an ER doc, stressful job, and so he would on weekends just look up things that were interesting and you kind of got down this this atlantis rabbit hole and started reading the original dialogues and doing and just over 10 years of time compounding a great deal of open source geologic and archaeological information and then and bringing on advisors

and so this is neat i'm really glad i'm a recent advisor i came in just because of my oceanography experience and and what i did um so i set him up there's another researcher and because we want to keep this private, I'm not going to name him, who has been researching UAP and moon structures. Okay, I won't name him now. So he comes to me and we end up just sharing information and staying

in touch because I like his approach. These is really interesting research. Anybody who is approaching these fields with a real objective and bright mind, he's a physicist, for example. And, okay, I want to know you. He might have been on my show, but. Oh, actually, after, when all this

comes out, I'll lecture him to you. He's a neat guy. Oh, cool. He's, yeah, he's one of researching moon and Mars structures. He's not, it's not, it's not, Max Direcciani. It is. Oh, okay. I was good to.

Well, then if, well, then, then that's fine. I don't mind having his name out there. Yeah, yeah, he's been on. So, yeah. And he's a friend, he's amazing. He's so hardheaded. Gosh, I know. He is.

Very deep. And, and I wouldn't want to debate him. Oh, my God. No, I'm not in his league. No. But, yeah, so it is Max. and in fact. But so Max came up with this

algorithm that is searching for I guess terrain. It looks at any kind of 3D topographical data set and the algorithm and someone else developed it. So I don't want to, and I know who that is.

I forgot his name. But so just a full disclosure there. But the algorithm can determine with I think a high probability what is natural and what is human-made or artificial. And so what I did is I said, this would be really good for our Atlantis region bathymetry.

And so I connected Max in this researcher, and they got along, and that connection eventually is leading us to potentially this very wealthy ocean researcher with a ship. Wow. So I find this, so this is like a very broad philosophical pitch here. I never say no to anyone who reaches out to me.

I don't not answer emails. Every now and then I get some really strange things. I don't answer those. But if there is a very legitimate, credible person who says, I'm very interested, I want to contribute. And sometimes I just got to say, thanks, I'll keep your name and, you know, when I'm ready to, when there's something that comes that we could use you for. But it's just, to me, I don't like being rude. And I like, I know the opportunities arise when you build a new. network and maintain it. And that's exactly what happened with Max. I'm busy with it and it was,

it was, you know, every new person has more information sometimes hard to keep track of. But I knew Max had that real intellect. This is a guy worth knowing. And now he might make this whole Atlantis thing of victory. That's so exciting. Well, I really hope it happens. And yeah, he's the exactly the right mind to kind of help with, you know, efforts like this. Because he's, he's very hardheaded. And, yeah, really kind of lucid as a thinker. Right. There's someone else in that category I want to bring up quickly. And I'm not sure where this will go.

But I happen to also not say no to a person who reached out to me who was a writer. And his name is Richard Betelho. And he's got a book called The Full Extent. And he wrote a really thoughtful long-form article called Human to Humanoid. And you could look up his website, Richard. sure but telho was interesting about him besides just being a deep thinker on this topic is you know you might know we've gotten a lot of traction in the media and so for example i was on brett bear's show uh jake tapper's show uh Sean Ryan show yours now there you get and uh and so

Rick Rick is the one who got me the Brett bear interview and he's the one he's my been my private uh kind of confid on and getting to to Brett which is big having that and is I think is really helping our movement and he remains interested. So he, and not only did he interview me, he interviewed, I think, Carl Nell, David Grush. David Grush, Jay Stratton. But basically, once Rick came to me, then I ended up vectoring Brett to all those folks. And he got them all on.

So that's been a big kick for us of getting the credibility established and mainstreaming this. So I wanted to give Rick a shout out too They're out there Yeah I'll say this and you should say nothing But I think the Azores is interesting The reason I say that is because I'm friends with Randall Carlson Oh yeah

And he is probably as deep as anybody I know When it comes to Plato and You know the historical accuracy of like Where Atlantis would actually be located And so he puts it in the Azores It's a very broad region So at least you know We could keep it vague

But yeah I think I think something might be interesting. Randall and, is it Graham? Graham Hancock. Hancock, yeah. Exactly. I like these folks that are not, they're pushing the boundary of science and history,

as it should be in a legitimate way. Yeah. So, yeah, like we're learning more. And like you said, history, we're walking back history more and more. The ultra-terrestrial hypothesis is so interesting, this idea that there was maybe a cataclysm. I mean, maybe something caused the ice age. And that's what those two guys think, is that maybe there was a comet airburst in the Torrid Meteor stream, which occurs twice a year every year.

And this occurred literally, actually, if you look at when, you know, the legend of Atlantis was told, it was like 600 BC. And it was like 9,000 years earlier as when this occurred. And that maps to meltwater Pulse 1B, which is a flood that probably got us out of the Ice Age. So like it flood caused the ice age and a flood might have gotten us out of the ice age and both might have, you know, involved sort of cataclysmic shifts in the earth. Yeah. And of course, you'd end up with a lot of stuff really buried and all this stuff Graham is uncovering of like, you know, footprints in North America from 20,000 years ago and ancient archaeological structures that look, you know, really the same across disparate parts of the world. I think Atlantis is this, it's become this. hokey, almost age of Aquarius hippie, like placeholder that, you know, has a connotation,

has baggage. That's right. But the idea of there being possibly an antediluvian advanced civilization, I think we have to be open mind. Absolutely. Yeah. Why not? Why not?

In terms of our evolution of our intellect, there has to have been really rich civilizations in those time frame. Totally. Yeah. Have you heard of the Baltic Sea anomaly? I have. Yes. So I went out there.

You did. Oh, that's right. I saw that. Yes, I saw, I saw you on that. It was with Dennis and Asper. Yeah. He's a treasure hunter, I guess historically. There's like this mercenary, like, trying to find, like, you know, often it was like liquor and wine and these like, you know, shipwrecks and stuff. And in the middle of the Baltic Sea, kind of smack dab between Sweden and Finland, he finds this thing that looks like the Millennium Falcon as far as the shape. And it, like, it seems like it's emitting all sorts of electromagnetic anomalies. You lost GPS? Very close to the object? Oh, my God. We're right above the spot, right above the Baltic Sea anomaly. And they send rovers down there and the rovers go off. GPS failures occur all the time.

It's actually very similar to Skinwalker Ranch in many ways. Oh, let's talk about that too. Well, I want to talk about both because the subplot to me of the show, The Secrets of Skinwalker Ranch, and basically the Baltimore Ranch, and basically the Baltic Sea anomaly is that we've located UFOs, or at least UFOs in that they're unidentified, and they have bizarre properties. I'm not saying they're flying objects. I'm not saying they're formally flying. I'm just saying there's a lot of anomalies and they're sort of weird attributes to that.

Right. And you're talking about the one in the mesa. The one in the mesa, exactly. And it's like we've located them, but it's hard to actually extract them because it's like they have a life of their own. So I'd love to get more of a more robust oceanographic team out to the anomaly to research it. Yeah. Because Dennis doesn't have infinite resources. Sure.

It's hard to go to sea and do research like you did. And that's so potentially like with Atlantis, if I can get one of these higher-end, well-funded oceanographic researchers to explore that, I'd like to. So I'm looking for opportunities. But going back to the ranch, a recent development for me, and it's a good. exciting and interesting is that it was actually because Brandon Fugel, the owner, he and I had this common,

I'll call it, a difference of opinion with the former Arrow director, Sean Kirkpatrick. And that sort of united us in a little, in a way, we started communicating and he said, and he invited my wife and I out to the ranch. By the way, I want to talk remote viewing because my wife has completed Paul Smith's courses. Wow. And we should

go there. Yeah, but so, which is really neat. And so we communicated and he invited us out. So we went out and we had this great day together. And it just, it was really something that the show doesn't necessarily highlight purposefully, but it is so beautiful out there. I love the West and it's just a great location. We didn't have anything anomalous occur. But, but we got the whole history and we learned their scientific method, which is terrific. Yeah, I'm fascinated by it. And I don't know, a lot of people, you know, say, oh, it's like the modern Oak Island or whatever. Oak Island's very different, okay? Like, they were looking for the Ark of the Covenant, and the whole show is them not finding the Ark of the Covenant.

Yeah. Secrets of Skinwalker Ranch, they're finding interesting stuff on every show. Yeah, yeah. So it's, like, entirely different. It's not like there's this one binary event, you know, after all this buildup. It's like an accumulation of evidence. Yeah, and we have to appreciate, too, the history here. recall that DIA funded a two year or so effort to research the ranch.

And this is the books that Jim Lekatsky and Colm Keller wrote with George Knapp. Then the follow-ons that Jim wrote, Future Visions and New Insights, I think they're called. But he documents fully the research done there, all the anomalies, many witnesses. This is a government fund. I mean, actually, some people, he likes to say, or maybe it's him or somebody that that's basically disclosure right there, those books. Yeah. Funded effort. And so it's transitioned now to the nature of the show right now on History Channel. But serious real research that Travis is leading. Yeah, definitely. And a lot of those dirds that came out of that period of ASEP and, you know, what Bigelow was doing. It was a lot of really impressive scientists who were kind of doing that research. These are serious people. Yeah, exactly. Absolutely. And it's interesting to me that academia is so kind of, you know, dismissive of a lot of these things.

things because academia actually here's so uh i've a book you know out here and it's uh holding fast and heavy seas go buy it amazon it's on amazon bar's noble my website tim galadette dot com and it's about my leadership in the navy and then at noah during trump's first term and you know ultimately the what is about is that trump is a very challenging executive to work for but uh and even though we we had dealt with that. We were able to achieve this agency I worked at the National Oceanic and atmospheric administration, Noah, a lot of really significant environmental winds, wins for the ocean, for ocean technology, for weather. And it's just the story of how to prevail when it can be difficult. And just like right now, okay, the, a lot of people have a hard time with many of what

things that Trump is doing, the Iran War, what have you. But there are things he's also doing are very good. And I, here's his science advisor, Michael Crassios. I worked with him during the first term. And I think he's taken a good approach. Granted, a lot of funding cuts that he has a problem with, but there's plenty of private sector research occurring right now. And that's really what he's working to embrace, is all the advances in the private sector. And so my point is this, that a lot of the American scientific enterprise, mainstream science, has become an Avey-Rights about this all the time, basically gun-shy. They're just, they refuse to innovate and use frontier tech.

They've sort of just gravitated towards the mean. And I think, I think Avi and Michael Cratsy, I think they're right. And this is what this UAP thinking is about, this embracing the potential for Atlantis to be and go search for it. Yeah. It's just not, not being afraid, willing to think outside the box. And that just in terms of, in terms of the way you think. And so I think at mainstream science, there's very,

just because they won't look into UAP seriously. And so those are the things I'm trying to change. That's what my book's about is working to address things as you see them for the truth that they are. Yeah, I agree. I think the kind of Overton window, things just get very narrow at the end of a paradigm. And often things that are not taken seriously end up becoming the mainstream in the future. And if you can't point to anything that isn't received knowledge that you're not, you know, somewhat into or interested in or think might become received knowledge or mainstream in the future, then you're definitely on the wrong side of history. Right.

You have to be kind of inherently. If you just look at the history of science and human knowledge, there's a decay rate on present knowledge and there's always new knowledge coming in. So I think being totally close-minded to that is kind of dogmatic. And I agree with you. Good. Yeah, exactly right. I'm glad. Thank you. I appreciate you addressing that. The other thing I wonder is how much kind of, you know, signatures, whether it be radar, you know, actually move the needle. Like, I feel like we need the threshold for evidence, because, you know, I just debated Michael Shermer, who's a fellow UAP advisory council member on the show. And it's like the threshold for evidence for a lot of, you know, people to believe that there's even a there there is really high. Like you need like, because I brought up like this job.

Japan Airlines case in 1986, I believe. I know that, yeah. Where it's like you have 45 minutes of publicly available radar data, physicists who reviewed it, like Kevin Knooth, who's also on the review panel. And he's saying that, you know, I think these show, you know, UFOs present. And you have two objects and then you have a large, like, almost aircraft carrier-sized walnut-shaped object following this thing. Yeah.

And then you have this, you know, what seems like a very above board pilot who, I believe, leave he was, you know, military before he became a commercial pilot for, for decades. And, you know, Japan, Japanese culture, it's like they're not historionic or attention seeking at all. And so, you know, you have that and you have, and you have the Nimitz case where it's similar profile with David Fravor and you have Fleer alongside it. So, like, say you get the radar for Nimitz, like, at what point do we just admit that there's a there? I mean, do you, then you get optical on top of that like i i'm not i'm still guessing some subset of the population if we had optical radar and fleer you know in a specific instance with the high credibility witness they would still be holding

out yeah that seems to be well remember this this whole stigmatization has been an 80 year campaign and it's been very effective and well funded it started after the robertson panel and we all so this is it's just that's why it's so hard to break it's no one's it's it's not open yet, but it's becoming open. And I think, I really think, well, there's two things. The more of the public has to be accepting and that's occurring. And then I think it's important for authoritative sources to acknowledge this reality. And that might be what is occurring with our government right now. It's, again, it's still a work in progress with the pursue files. Again, there's no metadata there, but there's a whole lot of UAP activity in those videos and

reports. So I think that's what it's going to take. I think it's going to take. I think it's going to take our government because we do show leadership in many areas, we still do. It's going to, like I mean, I'm doing with a science advisory council with OD&I, it's got to be the White House saying, okay, here's what we have. Well, speaking of kind of people who are more open-minded and adventurous, I think I read somewhere that you might be working with Victor Viscovo on the Atlantis front? He's a good friend of mine. Yeah.

So I met him through my work at Noah. And so we signed an agreement together. We were at a Capitol Hill event, and I introduced him, and that's how we started our relationship. And the agreement we had was he had built this submersible that could go to the full ocean depth, deepest part of the ocean, the Challenger Deep in the Mariana's Trench. And he bought a ship, a former Navy ship that became a Noah's ship, and now it was his ship, called the pressure drop. and then his submersible is called the limiting factor. And he dived to five, in 2018 and 19, he dived to the five deepest trenches all around the world.

No one had ever done it. And he called this the five deeps. And then he did the deepest one, Challenger Deep, 14 times or so. And so what we did at Noah is we put a scientist on his ship to help him accurately map all those trenches because none of them had been mapped to modern standards and fully.

So he could say this is the deepest part. part of that trench and then go dive in it. Some of the trenches that he dived in, we weren't sure what was the deepest part. And so our scientists helped him with that. He shared his data with us because we're the curator of bathometric data for the U.S. EEZ.

So we have this relationship now. And yeah, and he got there because as a member of the Explorers Club, like me, he had, he started out mountain climbing. And he climbed Kilimanjaro and he failed the first time. and he that's steeled his resolve and he succeeded the next time and then he decided to climb all the highest peaks in the continents. I think he climbed the five and then he skied to the north pole and the south pole.

So, yes. And so that's called the Explorers Grand Slam. So he did all that and then. And he's in the space. Yep. So that was, so there you go. Then he did this because that wasn't enough for him. He did all those five dives.

And then then he went in the space. Yeah. That's nuts. So he's the most vertical human on the planet. Sounds like it. Sounds like the real life Doseki's guy or something. He's an interesting man in the world. He is 100%.

You know what? And it was cool is that, first of all, he's a very humble guy. He was a Navy intelligence officer. And they retired as a commander. And so one of my favorite pictures in the book is the first person to dive into the Marianas trench that Challenger Deep Part deep. deep seven 35,000 feet was seven miles deep. It was a guy named Don Walsh with a Swiss oceanographer named Jean Picard in 1960,

with a U.S. Navy bath escape, they called it. And I can't believe they made it. Just an unbelievable expedition. So, and no one did it after except for James Cameron once. And his submersible almost didn't make it. And so Victor followed them. But Victor did everything right. He engineered it perfectly.

He even pressure tested it in the only tank that can do a full ocean depth simulation and it's in Russia. And so anyways, so Victor goes and does that, breaks Don Walsh's record. And then in 22 maybe, there was a 90th birthday party for Don Walsh. And so Victor came and I came to celebrate him. And so we got this picture together. Don Walsh on one side, retired Navy captain, who had to dive the deepest dive until then. The person who broke it, Victor Viscova, retired Navy commander, and then me in the middle, retired Navy Admiral, and we're holding at the Explorers Club a Navy flag that Victor signed and took with him to that deepest dive in the Marianas Trench. So he actually flew it outside the pressure hall, so it got a little wet and has a little rust on it.

But so I have this Navy flag. He gave it to me too. And it's hanging in my family room and it's, you know, it's been to the deepest part of the ocean. That's special. Yeah, it is so cool. And that picture of all this together, that of all Navy officers retired. Wow. That's incredible.

I'm proud of that. Here I am these two giants and I just happen to be there along for the ride. Well, you're giant too. You have an amazing history. Not like those guys. But I don't know. I think you're being a lot. But Victor, Victor is interested.

We gave him the presentation on Atlantis, and he said, all right, I'm in. Wow. Yeah. That's a great guy to be working with. He's fantastic. So one of my favorite things about him, too, is the Navy named a ship after him. No way. Yep.

The surveillance ships that I mentioned acoustic intelligence specialist, potentially identifying an anomalous object in the ocean, those ships, those ships, there's a class of them, a new class, that do have active and passive sonar and find enemy submarines. The new class is named after Don Walsh, and the first ship is the Don Walsh, and the second ship is the Victor Viscovo. And we had a big ship naming ceremony with the Secretary of the Navy at the Naval Academy last year, and Victor invited me. That's amazing. And I was even more proud the night before he had a small family get together at dinner, and he invited Karen and I. And my wife, Karen, being a Navy diver, we, an oceanographer, it was a neat, it was a really special

night. Wow. That's so cool. Do you ever look into the history of the Navy? Like, look at, I don't know. All the time. Yeah. I've studied the Navy's history ever since I was a midshipman. I love naval history. I'm, you know, way more kind of fair weather fan than, than you are, obviously, with your experience. But I look into certain people like, you know, Hyman Rickover and John Pena Craven. Oh, yeah. I'm always wonder, you know, what they might have known about UFOs. Hyman Rickover is, you know, head of the nuclear navy. That's right. Founder.

Founder, yeah. Do you think that, yeah, do you think those guys ever, you know, knew anything about UFOs at all? So probably. And here's something interesting. Just recently, and this builds off research that Sam Gerbis, UAP Gerb. Have you had on your show? Yeah, he's been on the show. Yeah, yeah.

Yeah. So he, this is something he uncovered that I thought was remarkable. He found, I think it was him, found a video of former, I believe, director of national intelligence or naval intelligence, Bobby Ray Inman, Admiral. He mentioned, this is well after retirement at some event, he mentioned the National Underwater or Undersea Reconnaissance Office,

Neuro. And so he basically acknowledged it was a real thing. In all my years in the Navy, as the head oceanographer, and knowing having access to undersea classified programs, I've never even heard of that organization. Really? No, I never, I didn't think it was real.

Whoa. So obviously it is real and it is so classified, I didn't even get a reading. Wow. You would think the head oceanographer that there'd be some, there's no boundary. There's a boundary there and I didn't cross it. Well, you look up, so, yeah, Nero's National Underwater reconnaissance off. Yeah. You look it up and the Wikipedia is five.

lines long. And I mean, even the NRO, which I guess they call it the, the little brother to the NRO or the undersea brother. And the NRO was only, I think, made public in the 90s. So for 20, 30 years, I think it was totally off the bus. That's right. That's right. So that, and I know, I know why because at least that, again, undersea technology is that can't be

compromised because that's what keep our shores safe, keep, give us. an edge in any fight. And so, and it's interesting. For example, there's a book out there called Blind Man's Bluff. Great book. Oh, yeah. And that's a lot of the submarine community is not happy about that book being published. Really?

Oh, yeah. It's all their trade secrets. So, but ultimately, so that's how tight that kind of a technology capability is. And if, if, as in our earlier discussion, there are under CUP, those would be. be the assets that would have observed them. Interesting. And so ultimately, then that means, yeah, there are Navy folks who, admirals in history, who probably knew about this, but I don't know for sure.

Because Bobby Rayanman, I believe, set up Nero, according to Gerb. And he then, I believe, on a phone call with Bobby Oxler, this UFO researcher, says, yeah, maybe UFOs might come out at some point, kind of implying like he knows there's a there's a there. Do you anticipate that any of the recovered vehicles would ever become available for... Again, I honestly don't know. It's a possibility. And so, yeah, who knows? So here's something interesting, too.

I believe it's the abyss. There's a thread there somewhere in the movie about these divers using liquid oxygen or derivative. basically immersing in the and having a fully not breathing air but breathing a liquid which sounds terrifying to me because basically got to drown first right and in the movie

they take a rat and do you remember this part of it they take a rat and they put them into the solution and it's of course reacts and doesn't want to drown and all of a sudden it inhales the water and it feels it starts to breathe you don't know about this do you

no so here you go no man she's gonna drown look look she's Freaking out. Just going through a normal adjustment period. Normal. Just look normal to you. She's going to drown. He's taking the fluid into his lungs.

He's taking the fluid into his lungs. There he goes. There's a bit of anxiety here. Now he's starting to relax. He's breathing fine. See his chest moving? Getting plenty of oxygen. Damn, man, it's breathing in shit.

There is a special unit. I'm not going to say exactly where. of Navy divers that have experimented with that technology. Whoa. And it gives them longer bottom times and all this, but it's very dangerous. And so this is a very highly classified unit that I know about. And my wife didn't even know about this until I learn later. And so you experiment with that kind of technology.

And if anybody does crash retrieval, by the way, Eric Davis has said there are more crash retrieval operations. that occurred in the ocean than elsewhere. That's wild. And the units that do that is these guys. Well. So does an Admiral know about that in the past today? Probably. And they don't see anything.

I wonder about like Glomar Explorer to Hughes Corporation and a lot of these kind of. So they were they were the ones. That was the one to recover the Soviets up. The Soviet so. The Soviet stuff. That was it. Yeah. Yeah.

So I, you know, I wonder if any of these things are dual use. And right. Yeah. Yeah, it would be... Why not? If you have some great capability, that's what you would use. And Bob Lazar, it's interesting. So he did this first kind of press run, and he talked about, obviously, Element 115, reverse

engineering and crafted S4 Area 51. And he recently, there was a documentary that came out about him, and he just did some other interviews. And he goes, actually, I didn't mean archaeological dig. I meant this was a Navy find on the seafloor. From what Barry said, that was an archaeological. which by the way isn't in the desert it's in the water yeah that was happened upon by the navy and that's that's all i know and so i find that to be a very interesting data by that oh i like

what he has to say about that yeah yeah yeah i mean not much more than that that's kind of you know but you also have packs river is very interesting um i just had on uh missouri representative congressman eric burleson who's a great guy i like that guy he's super kind of straight shooter What does he know about Pax River? Well, he visited Pax River. And he said, you know, and it's public that, you know, it's probably the most advanced, you know, aviation, naval aviation facility in the U.S. And he visited and he said if we were to store a craft, it would be here. And I'll tell you, just being there and seeing it, if you were ever going to do a transfer, it would be logistically the perfect venue to do that.

And he said maybe there was. even like a, you know, that Lockheed trying to exfiltrate their UFO so that Bigelow could have their eyes on it and look at it. Maybe that craft was held there. And so that was fascinating. Again, who knows? I used to live by there. Yeah, that's very fascinating.

I would like you know. Yeah, same. And then, of course, you have, do you know about this Blue Gild Triple Prime test? Very much. My wife and I helped Jeff Krukshank write the report on it. Oh, wow. Yeah. Okay.

So you're familiar with this. There's a whole section of he wrote this report and there's a whole section where we examined deck logs of ships that we think were involved in some partial recovery of either that object or something related to it. This is amazing. So the context for this is Harold Malmgren, who is this kind of elder statesman, you know. You interviewed it. I interviewed it. That was a great interview. Thank you.

And I really, Pippa is wonderful. She's amazing. I wish I met him. It's an honor for you to. It was a total honor. and I felt in many ways unqualified, but just really, as I do here, but it was just a great, beautiful interaction

kind of at the end of his life. He talked about actually holding the pieces from this crash, and that it came down, I guess, out of the plume of this nuclear blast in 1962 in October, you had this Blue Girl triple prime test. He said, well,

he reached for some stuff sitting on his desk. These are things, that have come down. I'm looking at, you know, the round rock, you know. So you're looking at like anomalous material? Yeah. Debris. Yeah.

And there were these Navy deck logs, and I believe there might have even been an outage on one of the ships. Like there was some radioactive. Yeah. Everything shut down. Yeah, they lost power. And then there's this SOPUS, special officer present afloat. A senior officer present afloat. There you go.

You would know. So General Starboard, I believe, was his name. Admiral? Admiral Starboard. Okay. Great name. You're helping me walk through this. And he flew, I believe, to the U.S.

And seemingly this kind of like emergency fit at 4 a.m. that night. Yeah. So it seems like something dropped out. And then there's a guy who used the Freedom of Information Act to request all records of UAV, UAP, UFO, any acronym related to UFO from the Starfish Prime series. and they were like, yeah, we have responsive records, but we had to forward them to the subject matter expert who knows about this. Really?

Yeah, the NNSA said this. Oh, yeah. So who was that? They requested him. It was an anonymous requester. So, you know, maybe you have to put, you know, adjust your, you know, belief in that somewhat based on that. But, you know, it seemed like a real request,

and it seemed like he screenshotsed the response. So it seems like there's a tapestry of evidence that a UFO might have come out of this plume from Blue Guil Triple Prime. And it's just amazing. I'm, again, not 100%, but very highly likely, I'm convinced it did. Yeah. And so that's what happened is we went and looked at all the deck logs for Jeff, because he, great guy, by the way, really diligent researcher, nice person too.

And because we know how we could read a deck log and know exactly what's going on. And so, okay, the ship's doing this. This is what happened. And we were able to interpret for him what we think was going on. Did you think that something anomalous was recovered from the deckland? I do. Wow. So this is fascinating.

And I love that you're saying this because you have the authority to say it. And there are a bunch of other people who are weighing in and they're like, it's the instrumentation pod or it's the booster or whatever. Oh, yeah. Well, there's that. There was, there were those. Mm-hmm. But then, but you have to line up. There's other elements of that recovery operation.

very anomalous. And then, and then, then some things that aren't even in the deck log, that, that you could tell that they should have been cited and weren't, because we know the history, he went and researched the history. Why didn't they put that in the deck log? There's a personnel transfer of divers to one chip or the other. Yeah. This is fascinating. So I, I, let me, let me draw back. I can't say 100% because I didn't see the object. Sure. But that, there was some, there was a highly unusual operation that occurred and some of it was not recorded. I think so, too. Yeah. Because there's, there's a section. where they're when they do make this first recovery attempt,

they're doing all these engine orders. And if I recall, I have to go look at the report again. But, and they were laying out all this anchor line. Okay, that was the, that was the, now I remember, they laid out all this anchor line where previously when they anchored, they only laid out a little bit because they were, they were going to pull up the hook, as they call it, very soon after. So there's no need to set out a lot,

along a lot of anchor line if you're going to move the next day. But there's this portion where they laid out a ton of shot. That's the term that you say because they were going to do something that was going to be really heavy lifting. You know, spending time with Harold, that guy wasn't alive. Yeah, well, there you go. No, no, he has nothing to, he had nothing to gain that point in his life. Had nothing to gain. I'm glad, and it was so sweet of Pippa to be with him and have, that was a great interview.

Thank you. Well, he was, he was amazing. And, you know, he's just an incredible guy. How do we get back to the future when it comes to our oceans? Because I think about the 50s, 60, 70s, and you had C-Lab and then you had this unfortunate death on C-Lab. But you had this idea of aquanauts. You know, now we think of just astronauts. We're getting there. Are we getting there? First off, there's a cool thing about C-Lab. Yeah. I happen, and this is in my book, too, I happen to be a, at Stennis Space Center, that's where my command was stationed. And that's the nature of NASA stations as you often have multi-uses. So you have some Navy units. Maybe you have, there's actually a Navy SEAL unit there too.

And so we were there. And they had some special event one day that I went to and it involved some of the Mercury astronauts giving a small talk because they were on a roadshow to promote some NASA space-related education initiative. And so a big auditorium full of the three astronauts. It was Wally Shara, Gordon Cooper, and Scott Carpenter. Heroes here. And I had a chance to hear them speak.

And then the audience, of course, asked all the normal questions about space. A lot of high school kids there. And so what's it like to be an astronaut and zero gravity? And how do you go to the bathroom and all those things? Little kids do that. I got up and I asked Scott Carpenter. I said, because he'd been a C lap. He was the only guy, one of the few people who had been an astronaut and an aquanaut.

And so I asked him, how he compared the two? And he said, oh, going up in space is just glorious. You shot on the end of a rocket. You get up there and everything's bright and beautiful. And you come back and, you know, after not very long, and it's just the most amazing experience of your lifetime. And then he paused and he said, well, but when you go in the ocean, things are really hard and they break and it's cold.

So he had nothing good about it to say. It was a lot of challenges and I don't know when the death occurred. But yeah, and I know this from my wife being a diver, the ocean is a very hard environment to operate in. And it's funny because I left that meeting going, how funny or ironic that remember Kennedy gave his big speech at Rice University? We choose to go to the moon in this decade and do the other things, not because they are easy, but because they are hard.

Yeah. And here is Scott Carpenter telling me that operating space is a cakewalk, but going in the ocean is another story, which I know to be true from Victor's expedition, because he actually got it all documented on a Discovery Channel series. And things break and you lose comms and all this. So at any rate, though, technology is allowing us to move beyond that. And I actually have advised a new company called D.

That's just their name. And they're building an ocean habitat. It's already deployed in the Florida Keys National Marine Sanctuary, which is like an underwater national park that Noah manages. And so they just installed it. And their chief scientist is a wonderful woman named Don Kronegas. And she's already, I think she's already dive the habitat. So my goal is to go dive that habitat soon.

Wow. Yeah. So that's there. There's another one. I gave a talk last year at EarthX, an environmental conference. And I did a fireside chat like we're doing here with a former NASA astronaut called names, Dr. Scott Parasinski is an MD. And he was the head spacewalker for NASA for a while.

And he now is an advisor for a new company. And the name escapes me. I think it's Proteus and is one of the Costo sons founded it. And they're building ocean habitats too. So when you think about those and the fact that. that new technologies like autonomy, robots, robotics are advancing so rapidly. And look at what Victor did. We're going to see more and more of this.

I'm so excited because we've mapped more of the moon and Mars than we have our own planet. Isn't that right? Right. And that's another thread take us down about under CUAP that, yes, we know not only more of the seabed, or pardon me, we've mapped the moon, the surfaces of moon and Mars to a higher resolution. than our seabed, we've only mapped 27% of the seafloor to modern standards. That's so much territory. And then it's 70% of the planet. And then we've only explored with drifters, floats, and drones, about 10% of the ROVs, 10% of the ocean volume.

So this could be an answer to the Fermi paradox. Yeah, where is everybody? Exactly. They're in the oceans where they are. Exactly. And we know the UAP, whatever is controlling it, they're elusive. They are not just showing up and announcing themselves. And so that fact and the large territory of the ocean that we know nothing about really points in the direction.

And that's probably where they are. Yeah. Fellow UAP White House advisor, Kevin Knuth. Yeah. He has a great theory about. Quick correction. Yeah, go for it. We're not reporting in the White House.

Okay. We report to the OD and I. Okay, got it. Of course, the White House, as the White House does, you know, the Department of War reports to the NSC. And so, and then they, they're both, NSC is a White House body. ODI and I supports the White House and reports to the White House. So we have that layer there. Got it.

Okay. Yeah, good correction. He talks about water worlds. And basically planets that have water as being like the perfect kind of Goldie lock zone, because obviously a phase transition. You have, you know, solid liquid gas, plasma. And so if you can have a liquid form of water, it's like an indication that you're in some sort of Goldilocks zone. Oh, yeah, yeah.

And so you have Mars is way too cold. You have Venus is way too hot as an example. So we're this, you know, this perfect sort of third planet distance away from the sun. And so if you have other water worlds, maybe that's where you'd have this Kardashev-4-scale civilization that is really advanced. And so maybe, you know, if there is kind of an interstellar highway, the kind of connective threat as to where they camp out on different planets is they would camp out in water worlds. Interesting. Yeah. There's a, of course, they're not so habitable, but the moons of Jupiter and Saturn, Enceladus and Europa, they're, I think hypothesized to have ocean and.

interiors with ice ice exteriors. Yes. And so NASA has been working to build capabilities that actually funded some of our work to, the goal is to basically land on the surface and then punch a hole and send in a remotely operated vehicle. So some of our NOAA ROV work, we have an exploration ship called the Oce Explorer. We, I think NASA supported to advance that technology that they could eventually apply for missions to those. moons. That would be amazing.

That's so cool. What's cool about that is, what kind of related is that NASA astronauts all train in Houston in one of the largest pools in the world. It's called the neutral buoyancy lab. Okay. Have you ever heard of it?

No. It's so cool. Wow. So, yeah, and so basically they all wear their space gear in this pool to simulate neutral buoyancy, gravity-free. And so what's neat about that is now in my my whole past government work i uh i've been working for companies and the the prime contractor for that company that uh that facility the neutral buoyancy lab is it is a um is a company

called rothy and they they're going public and they wanted me to come on their board and so i got to go down there and check out that that whole awesome setup and they have a whole team of divers that support the astronauts so sooner or later they're going to have a VIP diving day and my wife and I are going to go down and get on a scuba and go dive that tank with astronauts. Wow. That's amazing. Anyways, all kind of related stuff there. Speaking of, you know, maybe geothermal pockets that are habitable within ice,

do you think that anything might be residing in Antarctica that we're not aware of? Yeah. Isn't there a lot about that possibility? And I think someone thought that Admiral Bird had some encounter when he was down there. Yeah, exactly. I know nothing of that. I have friends who worked in Antarctica. I have friends, Noah friends,

who previously had been ice divers down there. And then I have another colleague who's a very accomplished underwater photographer name, Becky Schott, and she does expeditions down there all the time and is a very accomplished diver, ice diver. There's nobody I know who's been down there, and there are many, have seen anything. I've heard the reports, but right now I don't have any data. Just legends. for now. Yeah.

But your wife is a remote viewer. Is that right? She just finished this Paul Smith training. Yes. Okay. This is a good line of inquiry because like mainstream science, as we alluded to before, I don't know how it has been, but in mainstream science, consciousness has not been treated as it should be, right?

And the idea of all these aspects of consciousness like out-of-body experiences near death experiences. And the survival of human consciousness is after death, right? After death. So, and the end, and other related characteristics phenomena like telepathy. And so, just like UAP, stigmatized, nothing there, there, it's not real, it's not scientific. Well, what we're seeing now is whether it be the scientific study or, like with the division

of perceptual studies, the university. Virginia. Do you know that? Yeah. Oh, yeah. Okay. Those people, those fine people, those scientists, or Diane Hennessy Powell and her work with autistic patients. How about that? Did you, did you have her on her show? Oh, yeah. I've had her on. She talks about the conversations these autistic kids have together. Yeah, they commute on a hill. Yeah. It's like kind of, almost like meeting station, but in like, you know, some like mental, etheric form or something. It's amazing. Right. Yeah. Yes. So that is all real, right?

It's documented. This is a real phenomenon. And now it's taking it to the applied level in this case of remote viewing. First off, Hal Putoff is a good friend and colleague of mine. And he's shared extensively about his experience with that, the Stargate program. And then one of the Stargate programs, I believe founders was Paul Smith. Or Elysee, who is the Army guy. and now he's he's taking that further he's written a manual on remote viewing and it's all about have you ever remote viewed no i'm never remote you you learn a protocol like like so many uh i guess just experiences or methods there there's a way to basically like tap into that that that knowledge which is out there all knowledge is somehow interconnected and so karen has taken one basic course and then she just finished the advanced course and then she just finished the advanced course. She actually went to his place in Cedar City, Utah, and she's really good, by the way.

So what happens is they'll give you a, the facilitator gives you a target, basically a set of pictures with a grid coordinate of somewhere, a facility, a natural formation, whatever. And then, so he's got this target in mind. And then I guess what all he does is reveal to the viewer, the coordinates of it. And this is a protocol that started. out at Stargate and they did kind of worked it over time with really talented remote viewers like Ingo Swan. Yeah. And yeah.

And Joe McMonagall, one of your guests. Oh, yeah. I love him. Yeah. Oh, he's brilliant. And so Karen took it all and she, and it works. It's really remarkable because she'll, okay, she'll, and you go through a set of things where you sort of basically clear your mind.

And then sometimes now your mind is always when you're getting a perception, this is perception of something, your mind will automatically want to make sense of it. Okay, if you're, if you're seeing, for example, like a wooden tone or something, you're going to go, okay, you're going to build a table right there in your mind. You do that. You make a mental model. And they're in the protocol, you learn to recognize when your mind is doing that and you shut it off. Okay. And they call it analytical overlay. You know about it. Oh, yeah. Okay, okay, there you go. Yeah. And so Karen's, she's, I want to say she's mastered this. but she's done this for two years now,

and she's really good. Wow. And he's nailed these targets he's gotten to her, where she'll start drawing it. She'll start naming all the, all the kind of association you're getting, whether the shape, the color, the texture. So she'll start with words.

And then she'll start drawing aspects of it. And I even participated in an experiment, and there are instances where I got the target spot on. And so I even toyed with it. I was part of their little experiment in the group. And so she, And she's gotten them right on the money. And these aren't things you can make up.

It'd be one of her targets was this really cool geological formation in a national park. And she drew them just to a tea. Wow. You know, it wasn't, it wasn't Disneyland. You know, it wasn't the space station. It was that. And she drew exactly that. That's incredible.

She's done multiple times. Yeah. Wow. So this is the whole thing, consciousness studies. I hope as UAP may be becoming that. more of our, especially this, because more of our society that accepts this nature of humanity, this true, the truth, the real nature of humanity, there's so much we can do with that. Human potential is so held back by our not accepting the full possibilities of our consciousness

and human connection. Yeah. Like all the UFO infighting. Yeah. Once you really get to understand the nature of your mind and connecting with other minds, maybe all that will stop. Yeah, totally. And, I mean, that's on the line, right? It's like the nature of consciousness and the nature of reality and truth about metaphysics and stuff.

You know, it is a great book. What's a great book? Have you read Dan Brown's Secret of Secrets? You know, Brandon Fugel, he was just on the show and he just brought that up. If you care about this topic, read it. He has mastered the story. It's a great storyline too, by the way. But he goes into all of this.

You will be, if you're on the fence about this, this nature of consciousness, I would think you will be a firm. You won't believe you will know when you finish reading this book. I can't wait to read it. Oh, gosh, it's good. That's amazing. He's so, I would love to interview him. I think he lives in New Hampshire or somewhere in northeast. Yeah.

Just an amazing. I mean, I've read Angels and Demons and the Da Vinci Code and stuff. He's amazing. Yeah, he's really incredible. Do you ever use remote viewing like daily life for like decision making or anything like that? Well, no. Because again, I, you have to be disciplined about the protocol. It's just a, there's an aspect of how your mind works.

It's very hard to filter out. And so, and I've just not practiced it enough. However, though, intuition. So we're very related, okay? When you, and you also, you also, at the beginning, we all talked about intention. Yes. You did. And I, I think that's a really important part of this conversation that when your intention's good and positive, I think then, then I think your mind for some reason is, it's more accessible.

Your consciousness is expanded in a way when you have good intention. I think so, too. I think that's the secret of all of. this whole topic is it unlocks for you when you have really pure intentions. And when you're seeking truth and you don't have ulterior motives, you know, I think good things happen. They do. And my life is an example of that where, and I actually, again, my book, there's a lot of stories I have in this about it's better to be lucky than good. Oh, I love that. And, and, but it's really about having pure positive intention. Whenever I've had that, good things happen, great things

happened. It was about my going to the Naval Academy really quickly. So there's a whole story in there. I shouldn't have gone in. But I wanted to study the ocean and I wanted to serve my country. And what happened, you like a story. So you're a storyteller. So I wanted to do this from an early age. And I kind of misguided. I also wanted to get a PhD from Scripps. And I learned that the Naval Academy had one scholarship to Scripps. And I thought, okay, I want to study the ocean. And I was, It's got a pathway to Scripps, Scripps Institution of Oceanography in La Jolla, California, with Woods Hole, the top two oceanographic schools in the country, the world. So I wanted that.

And I go to the academy. I show up on the very first day. And they take all the physical tests you took before to get in. And so I retake them. And I get to this color vision test. Have you ever taken a color vision test? I don't think I have. So in the Navy, you get tested for everything.

And so color vision test is called the Ishihara test named after a certain, I guess, doctor, and a physician. And he, this test consists of a circular grouping of basically dots, colored dots. And the dots are in different colors and they all make out a number, 10, 12, 7, 8. But you can always see the orange 8 in the green or reds back. background, right? Okay. And this is, this is, this is, this is the test you for a very common genetic, uh, uh, trait of color defectiveness in men. Some women, but mostly men have it. And you'll, there are a lot of people in the population have it. I don't know the number, but it's not small. And so, but unfortunately, that disqualifies you from naval service because in naval service,

you need to be able to see green and red very clearly because those are the right lights, navigation lights on ships. So when you go to on or aircraft, and so if you can't understand the lights on a ship, you're not going to know the configuration. You could potentially have problems navigating. It's really a strict requirement. I go take that test on the day, my first day at the academy, July 2nd, 1985, and I failed that test. And the corpsman administering it said, and we're all getting back to pure intention, okay? He said, whoa, how did you even get accepted here? Go to the side. We're going to report you. You're going to be gone. And, oh, my gosh. So I go to my, I tell my dad and, and the swim coach who recruited me, oh, no. And they run

around and go off and, and ultimately I take a wait. And what happens behind the scenes is the, I was the fastest 500 freestiler in the country for prep schools in that year. Wow. So I was recruited heavily. And the coach found out and he reported it to the athletic director. And they decided to give me something they'd never done before. A waiver letter that I signed acknowledging that I couldn't go to the traditional line officer specialties, surface aircraft pilot, submarine, that I could only, when I graduate, do restricted work that involved either intelligence, medical, or oceanography. So it's what I wanted and it was actually given to me, even though I shouldn't even gotten in.

Wow. And they accept me and I go in and here I am. I should never even gone. Wow. And I followed the exact path I wanted to follow. So, and I was, and I was, and there's, this is not even the only time in my book where I talk about this, where I had good intention and I should never have gotten it. Yeah. But somehow I think that was it is I wanted a good path and, and the universe opened it up for me.

Well, that's a beautiful thing. What's the most precarious situation you've ever been in in the Navy? Okay, good. So there's the Navy, no doubt. And I tell this story too. I was on an aircraft carrier, and my job was the officer of the deck. So I was in charge of the ship's oceanographer, but I had a division of aerographers' mates that predicted weather. And I didn't really need to step in that much.

So I became a deck watch officer. So I was in charge of the ship for two, four-hour stretches a day, directing all movements, right, left, ahead, slow down, launch aircraft, recover aircraft. Don't launch aircraft. Don't recover aircraft. Giving all the orders for this aircraft carrier in two combat operations. And during freedom when we first flew strikes into Afghanistan, I came at the tail end of that. And then we did all the strikes into Iraq in 2003 during Iraqi freedom. So big, high stress job. And at one point, we were going to the Persian Gulf for Iraqi freedom.

We're going through the strait of Malacca. And when you do that, I'm driving the aircraft carrier. You're 100 feet off the water line. and you're way up there. And we narrow waterway, because the USS Cole had been bombed a few years before, we were really wary of any terrorist attacks. So we launched our helicopters. That was the protocol with 50-Cal machine guns.

And they were basically patrolling for any small boats who would try to attack us. And so we're driving. I have a destroyer who's about 1,000 yards on my port bow. I had to meet to the port. and she was the USS Curtis Wilbur. And so we have a strike group commander embark, and he gives all the orders to the strike group. So I'm driving the ship, the aircraft carrier, the Kitty Hawk,

and they give the order for the Curtis Wilbur. So we launched the helicopters to watch out for terrorists. And because we launched helicopters, when there's any aircraft in the air, we need to have what they call a plane guard, a ship to go behind us in case someone, and crashes and they can recover the pilot. So they give the order, Curtis Wilbur, go take plane guard off the Kitty Hawk's stern, you know,

at such a distance. And what normally should have happened is I'm driving, she's ahead of me, and she should have just peeled off to port. It would have been an easy day, and she would just slow down and take station behind me. She ended up turning to starboard, and she was so close, and it happened so quickly. that as she turned to starboard, the flight deck ahead of me, there's basically an 800-foot shadow zone of seawater that I can't see. And her bow basically disappeared, right? Like in that shadow zone.

That's how close she was. I'm going 12 knots or so. And immediately, of course, I do everything I'm supposed to do. I yell out, right hard rudder, all engines and head flank to just make me do that. sound the collision alarm and announced brace for shock. And then, and then, you know, this happens when people get in these situations, time just totally slowed down for me. And I remember having all these thoughts. I thought, oh, my God, we are going to cut that ship in half.

And there's nothing I can do about it. And that would have been, that would have, it would, it would, molecular would have sunk. We would have had at least 200 people killed, probably more. All sailors dying, very horrible death. I mean, fires, sinking. It was just the worst image I've ever seen in my life mentally. And then I thought, oh, my God, we're going to get hit. And we're going to probably end up having some water come in and damage control necessary.

We'd call general quarters and I'd call general quarters. And then fires would break out. My sailors might be fighting those fires, actually. And some of our sailors might get killed. All these things flooded in my mind before, you know, in that one second. and thank God the ship did the right thing at the right time

and shifted a rudder and she just barely avoided us of course the captain's on the phone with the admiral and every big swirl of activity there afterwards but that that was

the most precarious thing and there was really nothing I could do it was just because we were in that close quarters maneuvering in a straight yeah but that's intense

also all I can tell you is I am I have been blessed. In this book, I talk about these times where challenging situations, again, working for Trump, and it worked out. We achieved good. Thankfully, the alternative didn't occur. And I just feel like I've had this very gifted life. And that's why I wanted to tell my story. That's beautiful. Well, don't ask questions. Keep riding the way. Well, actually, you're right about that because as we talked about, there's some exciting possibilities ahead for us for humanity and I'm excited to contribute to that.

Yeah, well, I think you are contributing to it and everybody go by the book, holding fast in the heavy seas. And I'm just really honored out. Oh, by the way, Victor wrote an endorsement. Oh, did he? Oh, cool. I got to tell you, I'm blessed. I have some great endorsements. Victor wrote one. One of my favorite ocean authors. So as we talk about the oceans in UAP, if anybody, any your listeners, viewers,

like the ocean, they should read any of the books by the top line endorser Susan Casey. She's this really brilliant writer, New York Times bestseller multiple times, has a latest book about undersea exploration called The Underworld. She's written a book about waves called The Wave. She goes and rides a jet ski with Laird Hamilton into the lineup at Paijahe, you know, Jaws. Oh, yeah. Yeah, there's some good, that's a great book. And she has a book about dolphins called Voices in the Ocean.

And another really cool book. I talked about Noah having national marine sanctuaries or underwater national parks. She wrote a book about the sanctuary in the Farallone Islands off of San Francisco and all their history about the great white shark population that lives there. Wow. She sounds amazing. It's called Devil's Teeth. Devil's Teeth. And she always goes in the field for all of her work.

So you know what? Oh, by the way. So her book about the, about exploration of the ocean called The Underworld, she goes and dives the Marianas Trench with Victor. Whoa. Yeah. So shout out to Susan Casey. Susan Casey is. Yeah.

Legend. She is. She's brilliant. Wow. Getting that endorsement is just such an honor for me. That's amazing. Can I ask you a final question? Yeah.

If you were an alien civilization, where would you hide out under the ocean? What principles would you do? I don't have to be an alien to want to be. in the ocean. I told you that that was my whole career. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, you're already into it. Well, in fact, in fact, that's it. I'm so lucky now, me and my wife dive the world because I'm not in the government anymore and we have time. Wow. So we just finished diving the blue hole in Belize. Oh, cool. Which is this really cool feature. We did it with our daughters.

And we also did an iron bottom sound off Guadal Canal. Have you ever heard of that? No. Naval history. Okay. Okay. So in 1942, this was a real, precarious, to use that word again, time in World War II when it was the first time after Midway, the Battle of Midway, that we went on the offensive and we decided to take a Japanese airfield in the Solomon Islands and it was on this island called Guadalcanal. It was this obscure area but it was kind of that point where we basically we in Japan met halfway. They were advancing, we were going on the offensive and it was the place to take hold of an

airfield and then from there we launched the island helping campaign that assurous victory. So in 1942, there was this place where there was almost a year of continuous naval action, ships sinking ships. And there's so many shipwrecks in this little area off of Guadalcanal,

they call it Iron Bottom Sound. Wow. Yeah. And so my wife and I went and dive there on some of the wrecks there. That was phenomenal. That's incredible. I'm not sure what's next.

Oh, I know. We're going to Bermuda. So Bermuda Triangle. We're going to dive the Bermuda Triangle. Do you think there's something to you the Bermuda Triangle legends of electromagnetic anomalies and flights going missing and that sort of thing. There's data. There's evidence of anomalies. So let's tie this all together now. Yeah. Undersea bases, possibly, right? We know five to seven locations. Yes. We have anomalies like at the ranch.

Bermuda Triangle. Yeah. Who knows? I'm going to be sailing through it with my family on a cruise ship. That's amazing. then we're going to dive off Bermuda, scuba dives. I'll let you know what we find. Oh, you're going to have a blast. Well, keep with the proper intentions. Amen. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And wow, that'll be a lot of fun. And, yeah, it's just been an honor. I really appreciate it, Admiral. This has been a long time coming for me. I've followed your work for many years now in the UAP topic, but obviously you have this illustrious career, you know, behind that where you're adding your credentials to this kind of frontier. And I'm just really grateful for you coming. Hey, I am grateful to be here, Jesse, and I'm just, I'm honored and delighted

to be a fellow seeker of truth with you. Oh, there you go. Head to Americanalchemymerch.com to grab official American Alchemymerch and support the show directly. And while you're there, the Cowboy UFOT is a fan favorite we always keep in stock, along with the Atomic Age design. Thank you all so much for following and supporting the show. Oh