American Alchemy with Jesse Michels - UFO Material Locked Away at Stanford University feat. Garry Nolan

Episode Date: October 5, 2024

Dr. Garry Nolan is the Rachford and Carlota A. Harris Professor in the Department of Pathology at Stanford University School of Medicine. He has published over 300 research articles and is the holder of 40 US patents, and has been honored as one of the top 25 inventors at Stanford University. Dr. Nolan was the founder of Rigel Inc. (NASDAQ: RIGL), and Nodality, Inc. (a diagnostics development company), BINA (a genomics computational infrastructure company sold to Roche Diagnostics), Founder of Apprise (sold to Roche Sequencing Solutions), co-Founder of Ionpath and co-Founder of Akoya. But in this conversation, we focus on his interest in the area of UFO’s. Since 2016, Garry has been in possession of and analyzing materials given to him by some of the top “Ufologists” in the country like Jacque Vallee. He’s also consulted for the CIA in studying the brain structures of people who claim UFO encounters. In this interview, we discuss his very interesting findings on both UFO materials and brain structures. Spoiler alert: the materials contain isotope ratios not naturally occurring anywhere on earth, and the brain structures are very unique. Please enjoy this wild conversation with Dr. Garry Nolan. *** AMERICAN ALCHEMY is an original series hosted by Jesse Michels that explores the frontier of science and tech. Each week, we bring you exclusive interviews with some of the leading thinkers of our time. INSTAGRAM ➤ https://www.instagram.com/jessemichels TWITTER ➤ https://twitter.com/AlchemyAmerican EMAIL/BOOKINGS ➤ [e-mail] SUBSCRIBE TO OUR CHANNEL: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC7eOJzNRWY4l2UTDvIquxYg?app=desktop original music: https://open.spotify.com/artist/6LlLRudDi60Uy4jcmOSEs1 - microbiology stanford online ufo parts sightings artificial intelligence alien life spacecraft Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Hank makes the pizza. Co-Pilot handles the spreadsheets. Learn more at M365Copilot.com slash work. When your mind expands to a certain point in terms of what you might consider reality to be, other entities live there. Dr. Gary Nolan is a well-respected microbiologist and geneticist at Stanford. Along with his PhD students, he spun up multiple companies that have sold for nine figures. I look at a problem and I'll go, the tools that everybody's using are not sharp enough. With a lab in his name in a corner office, Nolan in many ways embodies a conventionally successful academic.

With one big exception, Dr. Gary Nolan is deeply interested in the subject of UFOs, or as the Pentagon likes to call it, unidentified aerial phenomena. Playing games with your mind like this, frankly, just keeps you sharp. But what distinguishes Dr. Gary Nolan even more is that he's not just intellectually interested in UFOs. I mean, I have some in a locked bank account. He claims to have what may be UFO parts in his personal. possession. A fisherman saw a glowing object and it just suddenly exploded. And you'll have to stick around to the end of this episode where we actually see and discuss

these UFO parts. Why isn't the government immediately funding this research? Maybe the stuff that we have, somebody is sitting around saying laughably, they're wasting their time on exhaust. We have the engine. But before you say, Jesse, what the fuck are you talking about? This is absolutely insane. The story gets even crazier. Just a few years ago, the CIA actually came knocking on Dr. Gary Nolan's door for help. At first I thought it was a joke. I really did. I was looking across the way here to see if there was a camera.

The agency wanted to see if people who had claimed UFO contact had any neurological and physiological differences. Nolan actually thinks that these particular parts of the basal ganglia called the Codate nucleus and the Patamen could actually have something to do with people's ability to see and encounter UFOs. I mean, alien means alien. either from another planet in this galaxy or elsewhere, or they're from another level of reality that we don't understand. Or they've been here all along and they just show up to look at us because they're basically maybe looking at their past.

So if you like crazy shit like this and you want more, hit subscribe now. And if you haven't already, unbuckle your brain, lean back, and get ready for this week's American Alchemist, Dr. Gary Nolan. Different parts of the brain have different activities. But you know that, don't you? Maybe you should interview me. Do you believe aliens exist? Yeah.

Oh, shut the fuck up. Of course, yes. Oh, yeah, of course. Could be. Ali's don't exist. Um, yes. I'm an alien. And they go, they're gone.

Thanks. I'm here with my friend, Dr. Gary Nolan, here at the Nolan Research Lab. At Stanford, very few people, I think, marry traditional science and the study of anomalous kind of heterodagh. subjects like UFOs and aliens. Where did your interest stem from originally? Somewhere very early on I started reading science fiction. Do you have any favorite authors? More recently, Ian Banks. In Arthur C. Clark, obviously amazing. In Arthur C. Clark wrote 2001 Space Odyssey, right? Right, right. And I always found interesting, you know, sort of the

monolith in 2001 Space Odyssey, which is this sort of thing placed on Earth that it inspires tech innovation. It's almost like John Mack would talk about a lot of these alien sightings being slightly more advanced but barely comprehensible tech for the time, almost inspiring tech innovation. I often think of it as laying breadcrumbs in a direction. What are the areas of microbiology that you're currently most excited about? So right now, primarily I would say we're interested in cancer and understanding how cancer is put together. A set of robots. You program each station.

Science in its essence and scientists are capitalists. Most of the biology scientists in the country have some relationship to studying cancer. Why? Because the NCI, the National Cancer Institute, is one of the biggest institutes in the country for doling out money. So you follow the money. And if there's no money for doing this research

and there's no positive feedback for it, and if anything, negative feedback, then the science doesn't advance. This is a crucial point. Despite the upper echelon of society actually being pretty interested in UFOs, it suffers from a severe lack of resources. Just look at the main UFO program over the last 15 years out of the DoD. It's called ATIP, or the Advanced Aerospace Threat Identification Program.

ATIP has a $22 million budget. Just compare that to fighter jet budgets, which often exceed $100 billion. In other words, discovering extraterrestrial and even propulsion that could be stepwise better than what we currently have, gets less than 1% of the current F-35 budget. Eventually we'll get to the point where we can laser beam our consciousness across the cosmos. Why aren't we there yet? Oh, funding? From my point of view, when I got involved, the CIA came to my office.

I mean, at first I thought it was a joke. I really did. I was looking across the way here at some of the other offices to say. see if there was a camera. And so they said, we asked around, and everybody said that you've built the best tool called Saitoff. I was introduced to others who were, I think people call them the invisible college.

It was people like Jacques, people like how put off, Eric Davis, and Robert Bigelow and Comkelaher. And then they showed me MRIs of some of these people. And most of those people had interactions with UFOs. And these were Department of Defense and Intelligence people. So supposedly and reasonably credible individuals. So in looking at the MRIs of some of these people,

we noticed an area of the brain that seemed to be disturbed, let's say, or different in many of these individuals. So it's an area that I've talked about before between the head of the Codate and the Pitamin that had increased neural density. And it was larger in all these individuals. And so you asked the question, OK, what's unique about these individuals?

Well, they're all highly functioning. And you have to make snap decisions. And so what is that? That's intuition. One way to explain it would be intuition, or just highly intelligent. And then surprisingly, when we looked in the family members, we found that the family members had it,

which was fascinating. So that means that structure had a genetic component, whatever it was. Here's a question. Are you, do you have a genetic and phenotypic predisposition to seeing the UFOs? or post-contact, do you now have a more neuronally dense caudate nucleus in Patamine? No, I don't think it's changed.

They're just able to, as you say, see it. They're able to recognize it for what it might be and not dismiss it. Maybe it's allowing us to kind of widen the doors of our normal limited scope of perception. You're seeing these UFOs that exist kind of interstitially in reality that other people just can't see. Our senses are a filter to stop our brains from being overwhelmed with reality. And so what we see is a limited aspect of everything around us. But that is a different model of reality than people currently have today, but it's one I'm sympathetic to, which is that the sensory organs are not necessarily productive.

They're reductive. Oh, yeah, absolutely. No, they're reductive. Yes. Yeah. On a default state of almost greater omniscience, but an inability to make sense. sense of things. Right. I just don't know whether or not it is an antenna or anything like that.

It just allows us to interpret things better, right? So for instance, there's a form of Japanese chess, which is a smaller number of pieces, et cetera. So they took masters in this, set up brainwave to figure out what area of the brain might be involved with intuitive moves, where you're, you'd be. Basically, you make the unexpected but brilliant, correct move, and at those moments, the caudate patamen lit up. That's interesting.

I find that fascinating. And we're actually working on both in using both autism and schizophrenics, because this area of the brain in both autism and schizophrenia can be damaged. But if you think a little bit about it, you know, schizophrenics hear things. and see things than nobody else sees. Yes. So are they all crazy? Well, that goes into the transmission theory.

I think schizophrenia, it's just, it's like a transmitter being broken or oscillating between different frequencies. They can't turn it off. They can't turn it off. They can't turn it off. So we went deep on brain structures. The other component of this is materials. I think a lot of people will be incredibly excited that there are even UFO materials that have been possibly left. behind. So Jacques Valet has collected these kinds of materials from all over the world.

Jacques Valet is pretty impressive in his own right. He helped develop a computerized map of Mars while at NASA, and he developed one of the early versions of the internet called ARPANET with Doug Engelbart. He's also the inspiration for the French scientist played by Francois Truffaut in Stephen Spielberg's close encounters of the third kind. Jacques was the original person who put forth the multidimensional hypothesis, the idea that aliens could coexist alongside us but remain unseen. For this, he received a lot of backlash from other UFOologists. In short, he was too weird, even for the weirdest. Jacques Valet publishes his address online so people who witness UFO crashes across the country can send him the parts. But he has no real way of doing analysis on the parts

without sending them to a Dr. Gary Nolan who can do spectroscopy and real material analysis on them. The first question is, well, what was unique about many of these samples? They were ejected from these objects. One of the most interesting samples Nolan mentions is from Ubatuba Brazil, where a fisherman witnessed an exploding orb off the coast and collected some of the parts. It turned out it was magnesium at an extremely high level of purity, but that's strange because magnesium burns like hell. So obviously it had something else in it.

So, yeah, we did a mass spectrometry analysis of some of those pieces with a highly sensitive instrument. It's over in the engineering department called a nanosims. It's a secondary ion mass spec, as it's called. And basically what it lets you do is determine not just the elements by their mass, but also the isotopes by their mass. And one of them was anomalous. The magnesium ratios were way off. I mean, not even close to being natural. That's interesting.

Yeah. Right? So you would never find this. You would never find it in nature. You never find it in nature. And you'd need some sort of centrifuge or something to create that isotope ratio. Would that be possible? Oh, it's possible.

But it's just expensive beyond, you know. Most people don't have access to centrifuge. Especially when these things were found. And the morning question is, why would you do it? Why would you do? What's the motivation? What's the motivation for it? Is it something that they're using and they need that ratio to accomplish something? Or is it a byproduct of an effect where they take the natural things and then they're doing something?

And this ends up being the outcome. And then when they're done with it, they go, and they throw it out. Right? Whether or not these objects are trying to show us something or they don't care, we see this happening, and that maybe tells you something. You know, you can sort of reverse engineer from first principles maybe what that is. Nobody that I know has figured it out. When you look at the five observables of the unidentified aerial phenomena task force, things like transmedium travel, you know, the ability to sort of break conservation of momentum and stop on a dime.

Are these possibly isotope ratios that unlock these features? That's what you have to come to a conclusion. It's used in something. Maybe some of these things that we see are not even technological. Maybe they are some kind of living thing. Well, some of the, I remember like Commander David Fraver, the Nimitz citing 2004, him saying looking at the UFO. And it's almost as if the thing sees

that he's looking at it and his conscious and almost breathing. Why isn't the government immediately funding this research? I mean, it feels insane. You tell me, maybe they have done it. Maybe the stuff that we have, somebody is sitting around saying laughably, they're wasting their time on exhaust. We have the engine. When you need to build up your team to handle the growing chaos at work,

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That's Indeed.com slash podcast. Terms and conditions apply. Need a hiring hero? This is a job for Indeed sponsored jobs. If something came from the Andromeda Galaxy and it's, you know, it's a million years ahead of us, it lands on Earth. It has technologies that we don't understand. Some people think that aliens might be us from the future.

Yeah. And if you think about the way we're evolving, it's probably smaller bodies, bigger heads. Yeah. You know, sort of what you would see a gray alien looking like. Do you think aliens exist? Fuck yeah. I saw the lights in the sky. I heard about a friend who got attacked by one.

You know what the most competent type of alien is? Yeah. Light. Really? Light is an alien. As in like laser beams? They were little gangly creatures, you know, look like squids, you know, tentacles. How did you know is the UFO is just traveling too fast for normal plane? It wasn't totally normal, the movement, so it was very, very fast.

I've always been interested in the 5% I don't know. I'll publish the 95% I do know. Yeah. But I'm always interested in the stuff that I can't explain. Because almost every major discovery has been somebody looking at anomalous data, and then constructing a new theory of reality. Yes.

Right? And that's Thomas Cune's structure of scientific revolutions. The notion that almost every scientific revolution was fought tooth and nail by the more conservative skeptics saying you can't possibly be right. And Thomas Cune was friends with John Mack, who was the head of the Harvard Psychiatry Department, who spent the latter part of his career studying alien to be. alien abductions, which is... I didn't know that. Yeah, and he encouraged him

to do the study. Cool. That's interesting. Yeah. I'm going to use that in my talks. You should. You know, that's, I think, where we're at right now.

The preponderance of evidence now and the Department of Defense admitting that these things are real. The data is real. There's no conclusions. Yeah. The data is real.

The theory may be I like best is the Jacques Valet, Diana Posulka theory, that 1947 in the Roswell crash represented this dividing line. And before that, people were seeing angels, demons, leprechauns, fairies, whatever the sort of local contemporary lore of where the sighting took place was. And then after aliens became something in the zeitgeist, that's what people started to see. but you're seeing some sort of kind of proto-architecture of a thing that involves beings and crafts, and then you're recollecting it in this way that is comprehensible to you,

given kind of like the noble myth or the myth of the time. Right. I use the example of, let's say that there's a race of intelligent ants out in your garden. They don't have a clue what's going on up in the kitchen, right? They couldn't understand it if they wanted to. And neither could you understand what their communications are. How do you talk to them? Well, the first thing you would probably do is make a little thing that looks like an ant

and put it there and have it do something. And so maybe that's what it is. I mean, alien means alien. Right? I mean, it's so far different from us that it's doing its best to talk to us in ways that it can do. They're either from another planet in this galaxy or elsewhere, underground or nearby or whatever, and they just show up to look at us because they're basically maybe looking at their past or they're interdimensional or they're from another level of reality that we don't understand. All speculation, but fun.

You can run your mind down those possibilities and realize how much bigger a universe you live in. It's exciting. than what you're dealing with day to day. Yes. To have a group of scientists who are supposed to be leading thinkers to base people who are interested in thinking about new ideas is, to me, that's heretical. And it feels like it's gotten worse in terms of established scientists.

Like, we talk about like the Fermi paradox, which is like the sort of mental model or question of like, why don't we see aliens? That's Enrico Fermi. That guy created the theoretical underpinnings for splitting the atom. He was in the Manhattan Project, sort of as conventionally well regarded as it gets. And he was thinking about aliens in his off time at Los Alamos. So it's like, why can't we do that?

When your mind expands to a certain point in terms of what you might consider reality to be, other entities live there. So this should be a rallying cry to anybody watching on the financing. Is there any way we can see the materials? I mean, I have some in a locked bank account. Honestly, I don't have it hanging around here. I could do a video for you and send it. This is also an easy foot so I could come back up, whatever is it. Oh, okay.

Professor Geary Nolan, thanks for having us back. We're here a week later. Very excitingly, we have parts of possible UFO craft. UFO crashes. So what's the background of what we're looking at now? Okay, the parts were a little anticlimactic and small, but he claims to have much bigger parts that we can't see due to national security sensitivities. But let's just take these three facts combined about the parts that are on the table. Number one, observers with no real monetary incentive to lie, claim to see a vehicle that broke the bounds of our current understanding of aerospace limitations. Two, the materials

contains isotope ratios that do not exist naturally on Earth. And number three, a top Stanford microbiologist isn't ruling out the fact that these parts could be of extraterrestrial origin. Given all that, even though these pieces are small, I think they should get you pretty excited. And we now know that isotope ratios might have more to do with the properties of the material themselves and the features and what the material can actually do in the physical world than we had previously thought, right? Right.

Correct. The odd thing was that the other piece, which supposedly came from the same event, had exactly the correct isotope ratios as to what you would find on Earth. The material up front was what we would say in homogeneous or partially mixed. It's kind of like if you were to take chocolate ice cream and vanilla ice cream and then just do a little bit of a swirl, you would see a mixture. And we would call that in homogeneous. Why would you mix some of these elements? Yeah.

There's actually, again, no good reason. There's no metal that people normally make that have some of the mixtures that we've seen. That's interesting. That's worthy of investigation. Yeah, it's worthy. So that covers all of the anomalies about the pieces of magnesium coming from Ubutuba.

But what about the other sample on the table? Those are pieces of bismuth. Nolan actually couldn't recall how it was procured, so we had to call Hal Putoff to get the full scoop. Hal. Hi, Hal. Dr. Hal Putoff has one of the most interesting careers of all time. He was first a laser physicist,

and then, out of Stanford Research Institute, he started the government's psychic spy program. Since then, he's been doing frontier tech research and his briefed multiple presidents on UFOs. So do you know the original story of how it was kind of procured initially? The original story was that it was sent to anonymously by someone claiming to be an army officer. Long story short, this army officer was going through his grandfather's archives when he found this rare sample.

And written in the diary was that it was a piece from Roswell. True or not, these thin layers of bismuth magnesium are very hard to reproduce. Howe claims that they even have the properties to microseize wave guides for terrahertz frequencies. It turns out that it reduces the size of the required microwave width guide for terahehertz frequencies down to about 1 30th of the wave length, which is amazing. So it means you can basically put 30 wave guides in the volume of a single wave guide at Terrahertz frequencies. Got it.

Thanks a lot. I really appreciate it. What can you do with terrahertz that we can't with current? Well, it's just more, pack in more information. We can pack in more information faster, farther. Terrahertz is the next thing for communication, that if we can get terrahertz waves working efficiently, there's a whole slew of other electronic and radio communication things

that can be done that can't be done now. Shouldn't there be things that we're doing with these materials that show what environments they can sort of withstand or what possible properties they have as well. So like super high velocity, you know, like literally like slingshoting them like as fast as you can or like putting in super cold environments or super hot. The transmedium thing, making sure they don't rust underwater because a lot of the UAPs seem to submerge under water and then come out of the water. Like basic things like that based on the observables.

You know, I mean you could run electricity across them, see if anything's different. Are they conductors? Yeah. Are they insulators? You know, again, this is why I think it's important to get this kind of information out so that even a skeptic could suggest what should be done. You know, I mean, there's a number of people who have them. I get emails occasionally from people.

Actually, there's one that I just got in the last few weeks, an email from somebody who, it's a glowing object that drops malt and metal. So you haven't seen any. I haven't seen it yet. I just seen pictures of it. Got it. So, but it's interesting enough that I'm actually gonna follow through on that one. Yeah. And this should be, we should have some sort of standardized process.

Exactly. There's like a flow chart that you could put together of what should be done. And once you've got that process, things just go in one end and come out the other. And then you give it to the true believers and to the skeptics and let them fight with data rather than, you know, hearsay. Do you think if they're hyper-intelligent alien? they're aware that you're looking into them. I would- Presumably, right?

Presumably, or they don't care. Yeah. Or they say there's nothing you're gonna be able to figure out about this. So we don't care. Or it's left behind almost as you figure it out and you can have it. Mm-hmm. You know, the breadcrumb trail. That's what it feels like.

Yeah. Last question for you. Roswell, 1947, Trinity. That crash was 1945. Mm-hmm. where the sort of larger piece came from, do you think that aliens are possibly interested in us splitting the atom?

So do you think they're interested in not only nuclear power in our own, possibly destruction of ourselves, but figuring out the building blocks of base layer reality? And so when we split the atom, they become more interested, and then maybe they're interested in the fact that we're figuring out our own genetic building blocks as well. Well, I mean, from their perspective, let's say a million years ahead of them, they know that we're maybe a few hundred

years from, you know, spreading in our local galactic arm. Even if only by conventional craft, do they want a bunch of angry monkeys running around with bombs? You know, they probably want to keep tabs on us. Right. I would. Right. You know, I mean, if I've got a neighbor who is, you know, bristling with armaments and always cursing and throwing stuff around I might want to keep tabs on them yeah and we're we're a bunch of angry monkeys right now dr. nolan appreciate it this is awesome and i hope we make real pro i hope we go through the step sequence of science that it takes to figure out what the hell these things are and what they do if you haven't already but you like these conversations with highly intelligent yet frontier people working on the things that will define the future,

please hit subscribe now. Until next time, I'm Jesse Michaels, and this is American Alchemy. Ambition comes in all shapes and sizes. At First Citizens Bank, we roll with your goals because we're built for what you're building. Fit for your ambition for Citizens Bank.