American History Hit - Lafayette: The Marquis and the American Revolution

Episode Date: August 19, 2024

Why did an aristocratic French man fight for American freedom? How influential was Lafayette? And what did he do on his return visit to the United States 200 years ago this year?Don is joined by Chuck Schwam, Executive Director of the American Friends of Lafayette. You can find more about Chuck’s work with Lafayette 200 here: https://lafayette200.org/Produced by Sophie Gee. Edited by Aidan Lonergan. Senior Producer was Charlotte Long.Enjoy unlimited access to award-winning original documentaries that are released weekly and AD-FREE podcasts. Sign up for 50% for 3 months using code AMERICANHISTORY at https://www.historyhit.com/subscription/You can take part in our listener survey here.American History Hit is a History Hit podcast Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Want to explore even more history? Sign up to History Hit, where you will discover history from around the world. From the American Revolution to prehistoric Scotland, there is plenty to discover. With your subscription, you'll unlock hundreds of hours of exclusive documentaries with a brand new release every week, exploring everything from the ancient world to World War II. Just visit historyhit.com slash subscribe to bring the past alive. January 1778, Valley Forge, Pennsylvania. About 20 miles west of British occupied Philadelphia,

thousands of Continental Army troops endure a harsh winter, housed in 1,500 hastily built dirt floor log huts. Many of the soldiers are without the boots, socks, or even coats they need to survive the conditions, let alone soldier forth with heavy odds stacked against them. General George Washington's desperate appeals to Congress, but the most basic supplies often go unanswered. Outside a barracks, one circle of soldiers draws momentary comfort from the small crackling fire,

melting a patch on the frozen ground. Their fingers draw close to the flickering flames. Suddenly, one soldier climbs to attention. On your feet, lads, it's the general. Clad in cream breeches, a navy blue coat, and a cloak lined with red. Washington is mounted on a chestnut horse with a white blaze. To his side is a young man, a protege, they say.

Some call him Washington's surrogate son. This elegant officer wears a uniform of similar fashion. But George Washington was raised amidst Virginia farmers and trained in the military with no formal education. This young Frenchman was born to the aristocracy and of ancient noble lineage. So why is he here, in this country, a new nation desperately struggling for independence?

One year later, in seven years, 1778, this young officer named Lafayette will write home to her friend. The moment I heard of America, I loved her. The moment I knew she was fighting for freedom, I burned with a desire to bleed for her. And the moment I shall be able to serve her at any time and in any place in the world will be the happiest of my life. It's American History Hit and welcome returning listeners and new ones as well. Hope you enjoy. It is an oft-neglected fact about the American War for Independence that are

ill-equipped, understaffed, and certainly at the outset of the war, poorly trained military, would rely heavily on the aid and assistance of other nations and fighters who joined that struggle. Now, legendary names like Baron von Steuben of Prussia, Shizuco of Poland, all brought their understanding of military tactics and training essential to making the continental troops into a more professional fighting force that could withstand attacks from the expertly prepared and organized British. But of course it was the French who would prove our decisive allies, in the end, and that would be in large part due to the influence of one man, who had a name that matched the grandeur of his achievements. I'm about to butcher some French. Marie, Joseph, Paul,

Eve, Roche Gilbert de Montier de Lafayette. Yes, we are speaking today of the Marquis de Lafayette, born in 1757. He was only 18 years old in France when the Declaration of Independence was read aloud in the streets of Philadelphia. But he would arrive a year later in that city, of the spirit of liberté, of revolution, which would become the insistent theme of his lengthy life, both militarily and politically, although it becomes muddy waters as Lafayette reaches his older age. His was a life of extreme adventure and extreme consequence that stretched over several eras of republicanism in France and America. His life and career is a lens through which to examine it all. So let's examine. In the company of Chuck Schwamm, Executive Director of the American

Friends of Lafayette and Lafayette 200. Hello, Chuck. When we say Lafayette 200, that's referring to Lafayette's 1824 visit to the United States around the 50th anniversary of the founding, right? That's correct. We're celebrating the bicentennial of him returning to America. It was the first time he stepped on the soil in over 40 years, like you said. And he was America's first rock star. 90,000 people came out to see him in New York City. It was amazing. It's incredible to think of what a Frenchman in the colonies in those days, how exotic he must have been. you know, to come from this other world. He adopted to Americanism quite quickly. I love this story when he was traveling from South Carolina to Philadelphia when he first arrived as a 19-year-old man.

The other people in his party, the other Frenchmen were complaining about the mosquitoes and how bad the food was and how ugly the women were. And Lafayette was, the landscape is wonderful. The women are beautiful. The food is fantastic. So he always had this thing about the love for our country. He was a contradiction in terms. He really was. Born 1757, as I say, on September 6th, to an ancient noble family in central France. He's really part of the aristocracy and has no reasons to be thinking about going to the wilds of America, does he? At one point, he was the richest man in France. He was an orphan. His father died. His mother died. And yeah, he could have just drank champagne and ate bonbons in court. But he chose to do something much, much different.

Yeah. He was obsessed with that which is brewing in all of Europe in those days. It sort of creates ahead in 1848 with the age of revolutions. But all this is going on in his lifetime. And it sort of parallels his adolescence in a perfect sort of way. And he seizes on it. He's from a military family. So this is part of the course of events for this crowd. He joins the military and quickly moves up the ranks. That's correct. He even became a black musketeer at a young age. But he did listen. and read about Voltaire what he had to say and others about enlightenism and things like that. And he did catch the bug. You're right. He marries a woman named Adrienne de Noailles, daughter of Duke of Diane. This becomes a lifelong relationship as far as she lives anyway. It's really quite a beautiful story, isn't it? It is. I will tell you that she is the force behind him in many, many ways,

especially during the time of during their retirement when he was jailed. She actually joined him in jail with their daughters. I mean, she was, there are people in the United States that are trying to make her a saint as we speak. So she was very, very special woman. And their love ran very, very deep. He is a courtier at the court of King Louis XVI, who was the last of the French kings. That's how inside this guy really is. And that's going to play a very strategic role in everything he does on behalf of the American colonies and the fight that has had.

he really has the ear, if not of the king, than those very close to the king. He actually went to school with the king. So he was friends with the king. And he's obviously friends with many people in court. So he did have influential ears at his disposal. And that was very, very helpful. Why does he come to the United States? What are the reasons for his decision? I mean, this is a huge trip to take at the age of, what is he, 19 years old then? Yeah, I mean, there's several reasons. First of all, his first of all, his father was killed in the Battle of Minion by a cannonball that the British had fired. That was one reason. The other reason was because of the fact that he was trying to prove to his father-in-law, that he was

worthy of being in the military, that he was worthy of being Adrian's husband. And finally, what we touched upon earlier, he was caught by that bug, that bug of the All Menarch truly created equal. So I feel like those are the three factors that got him on that boat and that three-month sale. Lest we get too tied up with biography in details right now, I want listeners to understand how fundamental this man is to the modern history of our nation, obviously, but also to France. I mean, this is the guy that will pen the equivalent of the Declaration of Independence, or the equivalent of the Bill of Rights in France. And it's just a huge, long life that really is important in different eras. So we're sort of marching towards that as we go through the

the biography of this man, but understand he's really fundamental to understanding both America and France. Yeah, I mean, he believed in what he believed in France as well. I mean, he tried for a constitutional monarchy during the revolution. He helped Protestants, Protestants and Jews in France quite often who were persecuted a lot and tried to change laws according to that. And frankly, he really, it's his human rights record in both countries that is so immaculate that we really, we really, celebrate. Yeah. His advance in the American cause is obviously due to his relationship with none other than George Washington. How do they meet and how does that take place and how does it develop? Very early on they meet when Lafayette arrives in Philadelphia. They meet at the

city tavern in the long room, which still exists, by the way. He was immediately taken by, both were taken by each other. Some people feel like Washington filled a void that he didn't have his own children and Lafia was a young man. And Washington, filled a void as an adult or a father figure, but they also were very, very close friends. And, you know, Washington was not taking on many foreign officers at this point. He was getting sick and tired of them coming over, but he saw in Lafayette something that, frankly, he fostered and became very important to our cause. Their relationship all the way until he died, Washington died in 1799, they were closest to friends.

People talked about them. there's a Joseph Plum Martin wrote a diary. He was a private. He said he saw Lafayette hugged George Washington. He never saw George Washington and anybody touch him before, let alone hug him. So it's just interesting to see just the way they wrote to each other. They spoke to each other. The time they spent together was very, very special. And maybe it was somewhat of paternal, but it was also a true friendship. Isn't it ironic that Washington would have been a young officer of fighting the French not too long before? That's a good point, but all was forgiven, thank goodness, and their relationship really did blossom, and it was an important part of us winning the war. The first combat that Lafayette ever sees in his career, let alone in the American Revolution, is in the Battle of Brandywine, September 11th, 1777. He's actually wounded in this fight.

What kind of role does he play in that battle? What's his ranking at this point? He is a general, not quite a brigadier general yet, but he is a general. He was made a general right away, but he was asked to stay by Washington during this battle, and he did until he saw what was happening. And the retreat for the Americans was going poorly at this point. And he asked George Washington if he could go down and help with the retreat, and he did so. And he gave him permission, and he galloped down there and early on took a bullet in the leg. And then what he did was he got back on his horse because he fell off his horse and did help with the retreat.

The retreat was orderly. and he did save the day, but Lafayette then had the convales for three months. There was a famous sentence. George Washington visited Lafayette in the hospital, and he said to one of the nurses, please treat this man as if he were my own son. Interesting. That really is the tie between them, isn't it? Yeah.

And Washington has that with several different of his officers, notably Alexander Hamilton. And Lafayette and Hamilton, you just need to go see the show. Yeah, yeah. I have a very tight relationship. Yeah. They sing some great songs together, those guys. Yeah, they did. The fastest rap of all time. I think it's the Guinness Book of World Records for David Diggs on Lafayette.

Yeah. He gets the command of a division in February 1779 when he actually returns to France. That's an important factor. He goes back and forth over the period of the war, spending some time back in France. He has, as we mentioned, a wife and children and all the rest going on back there. So he's spinning a lot of plates. He is. And he's trying to work with Benjamin Franklin to sway the king to give us guns, ships, money, everything, you know, performs all we can get. And he's very successful. With Ben Franklin, he is very successful in convincing Louis XVI to just do that. But he also spends time with his family and his wife has several children due to these visits. So it's an important part of the history. But he is given a command. You're correct. Finally. He returns 1780 with very good news of 6,000 infantry

under Rochambeau being committed to the American cause. I'm skipping over, massive amounts of history, of course, in all of this. It's a fascinating time that he's spending here with all these different notable people, none less than John Adams and Thomas Jefferson, all the founders he's got relationships with. And this will all kind of culminate with the final moments in Yorktown when he has finally given the command that he's been seeking side by side with Alexander Hamilton. And he's part of the big surrender of Cornwallis. And they take down, each of them, take down the redoubts number nine and ten, Lafayette's command takes down redoubt number nine, I believe. And Alexander Hamilton takes down redown number 10.

It's that point very shortly after when the British surrender. So this is an important command for both of these men. It's Alexander's first command. So he was very excited to take down that redoubt. I can't wait to do an episode on that, the strategy of how Yorktown really played out. There's such subtlety in what happens in that battle and the preparations that were made and Lafayette is central to it all. You made mention of the fact that the fact that This man is a real humanist. And his view of both slavery and also Native American rights is very progressive for those days. But he's very forthright about it.

It fits right hand in hand with the French outlook, the enlightened outlook on human beings. That's what sits in the squarely in the middle of the problem of America, the dilemma of America for the next 150 years for sure. But Lafayette was already on the edge, wasn't he? Yeah, I mean, he was also a feminist. I mean, he believed that all people were created equal. He felt that women were very much as capable as men were. He felt like he was one of the few friends of Native Americans that were white in our country at that time.

And most importantly, he was an abolitionist without fail. I mean, he really hit home on that. That was an important part of it. And he treated African Americans as equals. He would not take on a slave. He did not have one during the war. He was given one during the Battle of Yorktown, and he realized that this was a bright man and that could read him right, and he turned him into a spy that, frankly, helped us win that siege.

So Lafayette was way ahead of his time, yes, Don. How did he even come in contact with the Native American tribes? Who were we talking about here? Mostly the Oneida. There was a time early in his career when he went up to, he left Valley Forge and he went towards Philadelphia to look out to see what was going on. Washington sent him. Washington gave him instructions. Lafayette didn't exactly.

obey those instructions, the British came after him, and it was the United Indians that helped them escape that trap. So his relationship with the Unitas were very strong, and that spread amongst the other nations across our country. And he looks poorly on how we conduct relationships with them later on, right, when he returns. Yeah, he didn't understand why these treaties that he was asked, you know, George Washington sent them off to have treaties signed, and he did that for George Washington in 1784,

and he was wondering why these treaties were never honored. It was very frustrating for Lafayette. He just didn't get it. He didn't understand why we were treating people differently. After we wrote that document, all men are created equal. I'll be back with more American history after this short break. He goes back to Europe, to France,

which is in its own throes of revolution, that are modeled in a way, or at least inspired by what has happened in America. He becomes a central part of that early effort. Robert, writing a document, which is called the Declaration of the Rights of Man, the French equivalent of the Bill of Rights, or at least, you know, the Constitution, I suppose, it states that every man is equal, et cetera, et cetera. And, you know, Thomas Jefferson helped him write that document.

So it's interesting. And it was him trying to understand how he could possibly keep both sides happy. The Constitution of Marnarchy was the way Lafayette was headed. Well, this is all going to get very complicated for France, let alone Lafayette. as it unspools because things get very, very nasty in the French Revolution. And they end up going to war with the Austrians. And in that time period, he has actually taken prisoner. Spends a long time, as you mentioned, in prison for, is it six years? I think a little over five years. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, first of all, it wasn't a country called prison. It was horrible conditions.

And frankly, an unbelievable sentence I'm about to say, his wife and children, his daughter, excuse me, joined him about two years in. And frankly, Adrian possibly, most likely died later in in life because of the conditions that cell was in. Their son named George Washington Lafayette was sent to Mount Vernon to be with George Washington during this time. But Lafayette was in prison for five years. And believe it or not, yes, his wife chose to be with him during over half of that time. Lafayette is such an interesting lens through which to look at the relationship between America and France, not only in the revolution, but as the times unfold. I mean, understand, we go through a whole roller coaster ride with France in the early part of the 1800s. At some point, we almost go to war

with them. It's that kind of relationship that just has to get itself worked out. That's what's so important about Lafayette. I mean, even, frankly, through to De Dei, I mean, the role that France played in our War of Independence is a debt that needs to be repaid over and over again. And, you know, there's an argument to be made that it goes right through to 1944. Central to that is that relationship with Washington and Jefferson. There's also another interesting sidebar of this whole thing. When Louis was in trouble and would eventually lose his head, there were a group of people that came over and looked at where to build a new Versailles

in the north of Pennsylvania. I mean, there's legendary stories that Americans don't know anything about. Yeah, there's pockets of our country where French aristocrats came over and started to colonize. because of the fact that they were, you know, they were facing the guillotine back at home. I mean, it was a crazy time. But Lafayette really stuck it out until the end. He was guilty of trying to keep both sides happy. I mean, in the beginning, he was incredibly popular.

He started the National Guard. Our National Guard is named after that. He started, he kept the king safe. He kept the citizens safe. He kept Marie Antoinette safe. All these things were happening. But in the end, it just, it was a house of cards that, crumbled. Later in his life, his wife has passed on, he has a different life, he's an older man,

1824, Lafayette is invited by James Monroe, president at the time, to come to the United States. Obviously, it's the anniversary of 50 years of the existence of the country from, I guess, the first Continental Congress. It's quite a bookend, isn't it? The idea that this guy comes as a young man and helps win the war, and then comes as an older man and helps celebrate the establishment of this country, the fact that it's been around for decades and looks like it's going to stick, at least until the Civil War, but that's yet to come. It's very symbolic, and he does this tour in an extensive way. It visits every one of the 24 states that exist at the time, but there's a lot more at stake at this time. America is a different kind of country. There's a lot of

problems. There's a lot of divisions being riven through this land. Lafayette's visit is a sort of a isn't it, a way of making a more domestic peace? He's asked to come because of the, there was a problem in our country at that time. Democracy was young. We were going through a very tough election. Our country was very much divided. People, neighbors, families were fighting amongst each other. And Monroe felt like he should have Lafayette come back, the last living Continental War general,

to kind of bring back more patriotic feelings. And frankly, Lafay did just that. He really did. It was, that was the Henry Clay, John Quincy Adams' election. It was really tough. And he came in and he really did help soothe things down a little bit, distract people, make people feel better about our country. It's 13 months long.

When you look at, I mean, you can really look this up, there's just an extraordinary chronology. I mean, the itinerary of this man's life for that year was outrageous. He saw everything and met everyone. It is amazing. He was only supposed to stay for three months. He ended up staying for 13. he was only supposed to go to the east coast.

He ended up going as far west as St. Louis, as far south as New Orleans, because everybody wanted to see him. It was just unbelievable. People were going crazy just to see Lafayette. And the other thing they were doing is they were taking him around the country to see the, to show him all the technological advances they've had, a bridge that's never been built the way it was built, the waterworks in Philadelphia, a new penitentiary,

which, by the way, he didn't like because it was solitary confinement. And then they took him to natural resources like the Niagara Falls. He'd never seen the Mississippi River before. So he went all over the place. We're having trouble keeping up with them because in this day and age, with the traffic lights and the traffic and all that stuff, a car can't keep up with his worse than buggy. It's kind of crazy. 6,000 miles he traveled. Wow.

It's like the Washington slept here thing. I mean, you go around in Kentucky and there's a Lafayette was here. It's written on walls. It's really interesting. Chuck, at some point, he goes to see Thomas Jefferson, which you mentioned earlier. Of course, they knew each other for many reasons, but one of which was that Jefferson helped him write the Declaration of the Rights of Man. When he comes to Monticello, Thomas Jefferson is quite an old man. He's going to die two years later. Tell me about that visit. It went on for days.

Yeah, he spent over a week there. He came back again and spent a week. But my favorite story is when Lafayette arrived, they insisted that Thomas Jefferson didn't stay in the house. but Thomas Jefferson, who was not very ambulatory at the time, insisted on walking halfway down the path to see Lafayette. And they met halfway, and they embraced, and they cried. And it was quite a scene. And we're going to recreate that moment on the same day it happened on November 17th of this year. So at Monticello, it's going to be quite something. And so, yeah, that was an important time.

And he also saw John Adams. He saw Andrew Jackson, many presidents during the course of his time. It's just wild to think of those two men sitting at a table reflecting on what their lives had accomplished. The dream that what they had created was actually going to live on. They had lived long enough to understand that that was a possibility. 100%. And I got to tell you, Don, as I was telling you that story moments ago, I was getting choked up. I know. You can't help it. It's unbelievable. So I got to say, yeah, I can't wait.

We have wonderful interpreters recreating that scene. and I can't wait to see they're going to have a conversation to mirror the conversation they had 200 years earlier, and we're really excited about doing that. It's going to be at Monticello. At Monticello, yes, sir. Wow, cool. Mark your calendars. He is the first foreign citizen to address the U.S. House of Representatives.

Interesting. Yeah, I mean, December 10th, 1824, it was a major, major thing for the United States. And not only that, Don, but to this day, in that room, there's only two portraits, and there's a portrait of office. in George Washington. So when the president of the United States gives the state of the union address, you'll see on his left is George Washington and on his right is Lafayette. In 2002, he is only the fifth person in history to be granted U.S. citizenship, honorary U.S. citizenship. That's surprising. Only five people. Yeah, I was surprised too. And it's in perpetuity. So all his children and all his descendants also become citizens. It's quite a thing. So we're very proud of that. Maryland was actually the first state to kind of do this, but now the United States recognizes them as well.

It's the 200th anniversary of this tour that we're talking about, which happened in 1824. We live in a time of similar divisions that his tour was meant to address. A really fascinating resonance through history, isn't it? Yeah, and as we prepare to celebrate and commemorate and educate the public about Lafayette, starting, coming up on August 15th, his first day in the United States, that by Centennial, we're talking about these things. We're talking about the similarities between 1824 and 2024. We're talking about human rights and things like that. And that's where we're getting most of our traction done, not the young general that came over, more the human rights champion

that Lafayette is. And it's really become a lightning rod for us as we talk about Lafayette. Are you going to go on all the stops? You're going six thousand miles? I'm going to try. I'm doing my best. The calendar is daunting. But we have about 250 of those four days. Right now have an event associated with Lafayette on them. So it's going to be a very, very busy time. Chuck Schwamm is executive director of the American Friends of Lafayette and of the organization Lafayette 200. Or can listeners find out more information about this? Lafayette 200.org. It's all there. You can see the events that we have going. And again, it all starts on, actually, we're going to start on August 14th. So it all starts then and goes on for 13 months as on September of

2025, he sails down the Potomac past Mount Vernon and says goodbye to the United States. Fantastic. Thanks so much, Chuck. Thank you, Don. Have a great day. Hey, thanks for listening to American History Hit. You know, every week we release new episodes, two new episodes dropping Mondays and Thursdays, all kinds of content from mysterious missing colonies to powerful political movements to some of the biggest battles across the centuries. Don't miss an episode. By hitting like and follow, You help us out, which is great. But you'll also be reminded when our shows are on.

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