American History Hit - The Nazi Ship that Became a US Flagship

Episode Date: July 2, 2026

Before boarding the USCGC Cutter Eagle for Sail4th 250's tall ship parade, Don is finding out more about this iconic ship.How did a Nazi ship end up in American hands? Find out in this episode with Will Sofrin, a master shipwright, former professional sailor, licensed captain and the author of 'USCG Cutter Eagle: The Legacy of the Coast Guard's Flagship'.Edited by Aidan Lonergan. Produced by Sophie Gee. Senior Producer was Freddy Chick.Sign up to History Hit for hundreds of hours of original documentaries, with a new release every week and ad-free podcasts. Sign up at https://www.historyhit.com/subscribe.  All music from Epidemic Sounds.American History Hit is a History Hit podcast. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Want to explore even more history? Sign up to History Hit, where you will discover history from around the world. From the American Revolution to prehistoric Scotland, there is plenty to discover. With your subscription, you'll unlock hundreds of hours of exclusive documentaries, with a brand new release every week, exploring everything from the ancient world to World War II. Just visit historyhit.com slash subscribe to bring the past alive. The ship is nearly the length of a football field, 295 feet overall. Her main mast rises 150 feet above the deck, roughly the height of a 14-story building.

Her beam, the width of the vessel at its broadest point, is 39 feet across, wider than most streets in Manhattan. Everywhere you look, there are lines, cables, spars, sails, a complexity of design that for the non-sailer feels almost impossible to grasp. There are many great sailing ships in the world and all inspire awe. But the Eagle has a unique story to tell, because this magnificent icon of the United States Coast Guard was originally commissioned, designed, and built by Nazi Germany. Hello listeners, I'm Don Wildman, and this is American History Hip. As I speak, we are in the midst of our nations.

semi-quintennial celebration. And right around the corner comes July 4th and sail 4th 250, the great tall ships parade in New York Harbor. Leading that procession will be the Eagle, the majestic training vessel of the United States Coast Guard. Today, we are joined by Will Soffron, author of the brand new book USCG Cutter Eagle, the legacy of the Coast Guard's flagship. Soffron himself is a professional sailor, master shipwright, teacher from MIT, and a nautical artist and writer. So let's cast off the lines and get underway. Will Soffron, welcome to American History Hit. I am quite excited to speak with you today about your book and this great ship. Hey, Don, thanks for having me. I too, very excited to be here talking with you. We're two excited

fellows. I should say up front, Will and I will be aboard the Eagle in the week running up to July 4th, which maybe when this is broadcast, when this is airing, might be that week. We are guests of the captain sailing right up the eastern seaboard and right into New York Harbor. I can't believe my good fortune will. Me too. Honestly, it's like going to be having backstage passes to Woodstock. Very cool. More on that later. Well, the story of the USCG Eagle is remarkable, not only for her extraordinary origins and the unlikely journey that carried her across the Atlantic to become the flagship of the U.S. Coast Guard, but it even goes back a little bit further. What are the earliest origins of this ship? Much of surprise to many people.

the origin of the ship was that she was originally built to groom Hitler's youth for the Nazis Creek Marine. After the Treaty of Versailles following World War I, Germany was limited in the sort of vessels that they could build. And there was still an effort to train seamen and sailors. And sail training was a viable avenue for that. So the country had a sail training ship, But unfortunately, that ship sank in a bad sort of situation. And there was this big national outcry. There was even a coin drive to raise money to come up with a new solution. And what happened was they developed a new class of steelhold sail training ships.

They were named after the first one was called the Gork Fock, which became the namesake for the class. And let's call it as a development class where they designed one, built one, and really liked it. And then they learned from that and they improved upon the design. So the eagle, her original name was Horse Wessel, and she was named after a man named horse Wessel who wrote the words to the Nazi national anthem. Oh, my goodness. And it was seen as an opportunity to really politicize the ship. This man, Horse Wessel had been killed and framed as a martyr, even though his death had

nothing to do sort of with the Nazi cause. It was a bit of a jealousy matter with a ex-girlfriend. Right. He had been murdered in 1930, right? Yeah. He was part of Gerbil's propaganda, many avenues of propaganda. Horse Fessel was an SA agent. Is that right? Yes. Yeah. And in the storytelling throughout the 1930s before we get to World War II, Gerbils was all about figuring out these big stories that would vaunt the Nazis, and he was one of them. This project to build these ships, I mean, there's up to five ships that they're building, right? That's correct. Yeah, there's up to five ships.

The last one did not get completed because the war, as time went along, we have war escalation. And even I think a really interesting tidbit here is you've got the Gork Fock being built before they can build war ships. Yet the horse vessel was the whole number pre the battleship Bismarck. So you can see how much change timed between those. the first and this one. I hadn't known that Treaty of Versailles aspect of this, but that's so interesting because, you know, here they're telling the great story of the Nazis and they have this whole momentum going on ever since Hitler's kind of taken over, but they still are under those restrictions, right? And so in order to sort of get some equivalent of building battleships,

they're building training vessels for the Navy. Yeah, even so much so that the engine room in the horse vessel, the original engine room, was built to look exactly like a U-boat submarine engine room so that they could take seamen who had been on the horse vessel, a sailing ship, and they could go right into a U-boat, and it would be identical. They know exactly where all the equipment and everything was. How interesting. The launch ceremony is attended by Adolf Hitler. The ship that we're talking about today, the horse vessel, is commissioned on September 17th,

1936. Yeah, it's intended to embody the strength and determination of the Third Reich, basically. They were called five sisters, and this is important for the end of our conversation, that there are these sister ships that do get built out of that five, right? That is correct. There are sisterships, but the last one was not completed. And the whole ended up being scuttled. But following World War II, at some point, Germany decided to build one more, which was named the Gork Fock 2, and they were able to use the rigging for the original fifth one

had been constructed, but not used. So that was how they rigged the last ship that was built for the class. So was it actually used in the training? I mean, it could have been sailing for several years even before World War II starts. Yeah, horse vessel was used extensively for training. You know, going back to sort of her being used

as a propaganda tool, You have the name, the horse vessel, and she traveled the world. In my new book, I found this wonderful, fascinating aerial picture of her in the Caribbean, taken by an American spy plane where you're looking down on her where she's got canvas set up. But the idea was to not only have these vessels train the German sailors, but also to serve as a symbol and a tool of pride and a microphone for the mission. So it was intentional for these vessels to sail for. far and wide. And naturally, you see a ship like this. And there's also a, let's say,

let's call it a great curbside appeal. Right, exactly, which Americans will understand after they see our tall ships parade. I mean, these ships have impact. And the Nazis were nothing, if not impacting people with their story in those days. So that figures out. In the war, of course, it's not part of things. It's a sailing ship. So I'm sure anyone who was going to be a sailor on there or gets quickly shifted off onto battleships and so forth. But near the end of April 1945, I mean, we're at the end of the war. The Nazi regime ordered the horse vessel to move westward to an undisclosed destination. This is about we're going to find our way to binding this vessel in the ruins of World War II.

There had been a 40-member crew full of 10 Croatian soldiers and an unknown number of refugees, including women and children. I mean, this is a rag-tag bunch that were sent with that vessel. When Hitler's death is announced on May 1st, the next day, the bark anchored in Glouxburg. Take me through the steps in which it is found by a man named Gordon McCowan. So what happens is, and I think an important little hindsight note here, is Hitler had ordered that every Nazi vessel be rigged with a charge so that should there be risk of capture, this charge would be, set off and the vessel would be scuttled. And I think there's an important distinction here, which is, you know, you can say there's

Nazis and there's Germans. And certainly on board, you had both. You had Nazis and Germans. And the captain of the ship really loved the ship. So he had apparently sort of taken tally of who were the Nazis and who were the Germans. And at one point had himself surrounded by the Germans so he could disarm this charge and prevent the ship from being scuttled. Now, after the ship was taken, this is one of the reasons why we saw the ship, the ship was sent to one port and then ended up in Bremerhaven eventually, which was this

very important strategic port city in Germany. And at this, you know, at the end of the war, it's in rubble. It's in ruins. I mean, think of saving Private Ryan when you look at those scenes where they get rescued Matt Damon. And the American, first American commander, Gordon McGowan had received a report in America about this ship that was a survey attesting to the condition, which gave the U.S. confidence to say, this is a vessel that we would love to have. And he arrives in Germany with a certain expectation. And as soon as he sets his eyes on this ship, he realizes that the reality is very different than what he anticipated arriving to. And he sees the horse vessel heel to the side in a riverbank tied up to a

makeshift dock. And not only that, the former crew, the German Nazi crew, is still living on the ship. It's an amazing photograph, which you have in your book, where you have this, you know, still noble-looking vessel, but the backdrop of it is every destroyed building you've ever seen in every, you know, picture of destroyed Germany. But there's this ship looking like, There's still hope in the world. As I say, Hitler is announced dead on May 1st. In the days afterwards, we're talking about what kind of deal that lands this ship with the Nazis. This is a war reparations issue, right?

That's correct. Yeah. So after the war ends, the spoils go to the victors. And the Coast Guard during the war had the use of a Danish ship called the Denmark. And they had a wonderful experience sail training the Coast Guard cadets on this large ship. And that was really the motivating factor behind the Coast Guard vying to take possession of this ship. So when we have the spoils of war, there's a list of what's available. And the Coast Guard sees this and puts their name in for it.

And funny enough, you've got the names of a bunch of vessels, you know, tallied. and you get numbers put on pieces of paper and these numbers get put in a hat and these military leaders take their turns drawing these numbers out of a hat for the vessels that they want. And we actually, we don't get the horse vessel, but we've got interest.

So very quickly, if the numbers get drawn, the American secretly kind of to the side has a bit of a private conversation with the Russian and there's an exchange of numbers. And that is how the horse vessel came to be ours. Interesting. It's about divvying up the naval assets of the Kriegs Marine, the Nazi Navy. And in that dealmaking, which you've got another picture of, these guys right around a circular table figuring out what's going where, what's going where. The priority for

the Coast Guard is to get a handle on this, on a ship they can use in place of this Danish vessel. That's how it boils down, right? Yes, perfectly. Interesting. Let's take a short break. When we come back, We'll talk about how this German vessel officially becomes commissioned as a U.S. Coast Guard ship. We're back with author Will Soffron talking about his new book, the USCG Cutter Eagle, the legacy of the Coast Guard's flagship. Will, we've got a ship that is being rescued in the ruins of Nazi Germany by a U.S. naval commander named Gordon McCowan. And he's got a huge task in front of him, which is not at all. practical. How do you re-bit a ship in a ruined country that is not there to provision you? I mean, how does he do it? It's a remarkable example of how innovative the Coast Guard is. I mean,

here's this great example of sort of an individual who's maybe got more than he can handle up front, but he has a great methodology for how to approach putting this ship back together. And doing such, there was the benefit of having the former German crew on board. These men knew the ship inside and out. They were well versed in what it needed. And he got a lot of cooperation from the former German captain, who was right by his side, brought the plans out. And he did have a limited number of resources, though, unfortunately, manpower wise.

You have the war having concluded. So there's a big wind down on budget. There's less need for people. Americans are happy to go home instead of over to war-torn Germany. Right. And through coordinating efforts with other ally officers, especially the British, Commander McGowan, he finds little snippets of advice. There are moments where he hears about sort of maybe a hidden supply bunker and goes on

a bit of these kind of wild goose chases. And they end up really delivering for him, where he finds these under- ground troves of maritime supplies, sort of everything that he could ever need for this ship. It's fun to read. He wrote a book called The Skipper and the Eagle, which was his memoir of that whole process. And it is really fun. It's like those World War II movies where, you know, some savvy guy knows how he's a cigar chump and supply officer knows there's, you know, a secret stash somewhere down on the, down on the pier. It's kind of got that flavor. But in his case, it's also the Germans who are helping him, right?

And they find remarkable caches of like unbelievable rope and engines that they've requisitioned piece by a piece. It's like putting together a puzzle, putting this thing back together into some sort of, you know, viable ship that can actually cross the Atlantic. Because ultimately that's what they're trying to do, right? That's exactly what they're trying to do. I think one of my favorite little tidbits from this was he needed to have a new set of sales made. But the sale makers were very malnourished. There was mass poverty. There wasn't a lot of food.

Things were still being rationed. And when he learns there's not a lot of progress happening, he kind of on his own sort of alludes in his book where he noticed that food started disappearing around the officer's mess hall. Yeah. And fuel for keeping the fires going. And all of a sudden production sort of picked up on the sales. Yeah, exactly. There's a very sweet undertone to that account, which is to say, you know, here are two nations that have been in war, but of course the soldiers and sailors who are, you know, fighting those battles aren't necessarily going to carry on that war. And so

that's the feeling of like, how are we going to figure out this thing together and make this ship, which is such a symbol of unity at this moment, actually work for both crowds of people. He's going to have a mixed crew, isn't he? Both German and American. Yeah. So as the preparation for the voyage is approaching, he learned, is that he's not going to get the bodies that have been promised to him. And he's very understaffed. This ship needs really between 200 and 250 people to properly man it to sail it. And he doesn't even have 50.

So he's put in a position where he's trying to figure out what to do. And he has this conversation with a British officer who is running this whole mine clearing operation. And the officer says, well, I'll tell you what, how about I help you out? Why don't you ask the German crew that's on your ship if they want to sail with you. And what I'll do is I'll pay them under my budget. And then when you arrive in America, you can just send them to a POW camp and they'll end up back over here anyways. Yeah.

At what point do they take off? I mean, how long does this process take? The process takes a good amount of time, but not too long in the world. of, let's say, maritime preparation. McGowan-A-Wat arrives, I want to say, I believe it's January. Correct me if I'm wrong. And he, the ship gets underway in June. Wow.

And so, yeah, quite a short time when you talk about putting a new engine in the ship, all new sails, all new rigging, really, and stocking all the materials, and then preparing the sailors and the crew for this big voyage across the Atlantic. Sure. And this is for the Coast Guard, not the Navy. And that's still a factor in this situation, right? Yeah, that's an important factor there, too, which is the U.S. Navy is designed to send sailors around the world. That's what they do.

That is what they are great at. The U.S. Coast Guard, the design of the service, is to protect us more locally. Not that the Coast Guard doesn't have a presence globally. The Coast Guard is capable and has vessels all around the world, but it's more of a coastal service where there's shorter durations, less distances typically traveled than the U.S. Navy. Right. But they're also not getting any help from the Navy, I would imagine. You're right. They're not getting much help from the Navy at all. I think this goes back to where I was touching on. We have this winding down post-war effort and the services are taking care of themselves.

And that goes back to, you know, how clever McGowan was with preparing the ship and then needing to still be clever to find the crew to man the ship. One resource of fellow. The voyage is kind of the traditional course down from Europe to Madeira, and they probably catch those winds across. It takes weeks for them to get over to the United States. Have they renamed the vessel at this point? I can't imagine they're going to bring the horsed vessel into America.

Yes, there was, before the ship departed from Germany, there needed to be a commissioning ceremony. And we even had a Navy Admiral who is there presiding over. the commissioning of the ship, at which point the American flag was hoisted. The ship was renamed Eagle from Horse Fessel. And there's a really powerful moment when that happens because standing on deck, you have the American crew on one side and the German crew on the other side, both saluting the ship. And just a real powerful moment leaning into what you were saying, where you've got these men who were sworn enemies a year prior. And, you're just a real powerful moment. And

here they are forced to work together to depend on each other. It was a big story, I'm sure, you know, in the papers. This is an incredible thing that's being done, especially after what's happened, you know, for the last five years. Why the eagle? I mean, there's always such stories about how many vessels were named something. And there were quite a few eagles before this for obvious reasons. Yeah, there were.

Eagles, an important name in Coast Guard history. The Coast Guard has a fascinating history. Originally, it was the revenue cutter service. It was founded by Alexander Hamilton, who was secretary of the Treasury at the time. And in Federalist paper number 12, he had outlined this service that would serve as a pillar. Because at that time, there was no U.S. Navy. The Continental Navy had been disbanded post the Revolutionary War. And the U.S. Navy would not have been established until 1794. So in 1790, you have this service created and they need new vessels. And that's, That's where we have the first eagle, one of the first 10 revenue cutters. No kidding. So they're naming it after the first sort of Coast Guard. Revenue cutter, meaning they go around and they collect the revenues, right? Yeah.

The idea behind the revenue cutter service was a permanently armed maritime force that could help collect taxes or tariffs in a sense from vessels coming over to America because we had this wartime debt that we needed to pay off and the government needed a source of revenue. Hence the name. What's fascinating is that there's not actually an official naming of the vessel. So you have revenue marine, revenue service. It's not until the 1860s where the revenue cutter service really becomes the solidified name of the service. The interesting coincidence, of course, is that there's an eagle underneath of the bow spread, right, on the original Nazi vessel. And that eagle is holding a Nazi symbol, the swastika, in its talons. Of course, that's ripped right off of there. but there always has been that eagle underneath. Yeah, that what you see under a bowsprit is called the figurehead of a ship. And depending on different ships, sometimes we've seen women as figureheads.

You've seen examples of other animals. And it was very poetic for there to always have been an eagle figurehead on this ship. Yeah. And there's actually been a number of versions of the figurehead over the generations of eagle service. Interesting. Well, I said at the top of this broadcast that this is an unusual episode for us because everyone listening to this story will have the chance in very short order to see this actual ship come in on the biggest marquee event of July 4th.

There's an extraordinary payoff here for everybody. And that's where you'll get the sense that we're talking about of the sheer awe of this vessel and the others behind it. I mean, there's extraordinary. Some of those vessels, I think two of them, right? There's two vessels in this parade that are, sister ships of the Eagle. Yes, that is correct. Eagle still has, earlier we were talking about how there were these, the five sisters that were built. And you still have the majority of them

actively sailing for foreign navies. And we're very fortunate that two of them are going to come back and participate in our celebration for the outflow. God, it just compresses history, doesn't it? It really does. It's remarkable. And you'll be out there. You are the figurehead on this one, right? No, I'm kidding. We're going to take another break, and when we come back, we're going to talk about the use of the Eagle as a sailing training vessel. We're back with Will Soren. I'm curious about the day that the USCG, by the way,

that stands for United States Coast Guard vessel or Coast Guard cutter in this case, Eagle arrives in the United States. Weeks across the Atlantic, here comes this rag-tag, you know, barely a crew that can sail this size of ship. they arrive where in New York Harbor? Where do they come into? It's an amazing story because, I mean, you couldn't have anything be sort of more movie-esque where the crew of Eagle sails across the Atlantic.

They stop in Bermuda. And they've got three days from Bermuda back to America. And 24 hours out from arrival, they encounter a hurricane. And not just any hurricane. I mean, a massive hurricane that ends up shredding almost all these new sails on the ship. They're destroyed. They're blown out. And but they make it through the storm and they arrive in New York Harbor, but they've got the Germans on board. And there's fear of the Germans jumping ship literally. So the ship Eagle has to stay moored or anchored in the harbor. And you've got the FBI with boats motoring around to make sure nobody jumps off the ship. And the next morning, Eagle motors up the Hudson to Camp Shanks, which used to be our sort of last stop America when we were.

sending soldiers over to Europe and it became the last POW camp and the Germans are unloaded there. And then Eagle makes her way from New York across Long Island and finishes her voyage in New London, Connecticut, where the Coast Guard Academy is. And that's a very sort of quiet arrival. Yeah. And thus begins at service, which is, we're talking about 80 years ago, this begins, which is extraordinary in itself. But many people might be confused. What is the point of using such a vessel in training officers for what is today in modern. You know, these are, there are no sailing vessels in the, in the Coast Guard, as far as I know. I mean, you're going out in search and rescue.

You're doing all kinds of patrols. These are all diesel-driven ships, right? Yeah. I think the reason why Eagle still is in place and why she is used is she is the ideal platform for the role that she plays for the Coast Guard. The Coast Guard is always believed in experiential learning as a key component to preparing their cadets who will become the officers and the leader of the service. And so you'll have the cadets during much of the school year working through what they're learning at the Coast Guard Academy. And then strategically, at certain points of their academic career,

they go out on Eagle or other vessels. But Eagle is really important. because I like to use the word, you know, sort of let's use the analogy, analog and digital, all right? Yeah. Eagle is the analog version of a maritime vessel today, whereas you could take a modern cutter, and let's call that the digital version. Now, the digital version, absolutely is much more advanced, faster, can do all these things, but it's very broken up. You've got an engine room.

You've got the bridge. People can't see what the others are doing. Whereas on Eagle, everything operates a little bit slower, but there's a lot of visibility. And it requires a lot of direct coordination. And that's what's really important about Eagle is it creates the opportunity for the cadets to practice leadership in different levels on stage. And even though it's not a wartime vessel, Eagle has a very unique mission and that she is the only Coast Guard ship. that is dedicated to training services, future leaders, but not only that, also representing America at home and abroad.

These cadets are tasked immediately with representing our nation. Eagle spends much of her time. This year, she'll be on the eastern seaboard, but last year she was on the Pacific coast, likely probably next year she'll go over to Europe. And when she travels, she's representing our nation, and those cadets are practicing in a real-world scenario what it's like and how they need to act when representing our nation.

Well, most of those ships in the parade, the big ones, are equivalents elsewhere. You know, most countries use these ships either as ambassadors or as training vessels for their navies, which was interesting to me because when I went out there in preparation for this conversation and the job, I met with Chris Ingsley, the current captain of the Eagle. And I asked that dumb question of like, hey, you know, why does this work out so well for you guys? and how come and blah, blah, blah. And he mentions this. It was so interesting to me.

Most navies in the world are not blue water navies. He says to me, a guy who knows nothing about this. And I said, oh, I never thought of that. And he says, most navies are Coast Guards. And so we are doing, you know, the job of most navies in the world. That's such an interesting twist on the thing, I think.

Yeah, I think that's, you know, I'd not heard that, but it makes all the sense in the world when you hear it put that way. Yeah. And the ship, oh, my goodness. You know, first of all, anyone who hasn't had that experience of being on a tall ship or even a museum ship that's in a port ought to do it just to get the sense of this thing. It's an enormous world unto itself, so big and so grand. But you also see how much it takes to run it, how much it takes to just operate this ship.

And there's so many duties that have to work in sync. So that's a laboratory of teamwork right there. And if you're training up the next generation of leadership within the Coast Guard, it's the perfect way to do that. So every year they are putting out how many cadets are on that in the average year? 150, I think, right? I think it might be difficult to pinpoint the number of how many cadets go on. Let me break down what happens because what you'll have is you have multiple generations of cadets going out on Eagle each year.

What you'll have predominantly, I think, where she is most important is there is third class cadet summer, which is essentially you have just completed your freshman year at the academy, you were going to be a sophomore, which means you've gone from fourth class to third class cadet. And this is a very important point of the academic process at the Coast Guard Academy is for the third class cadets. Now, the third class cadets have all been on Eagle the previous summer as a fourth class cadet or a swab. And they did that at the end of boot camp, you could say sort of swab summer, they're indoctrinated,

into the service. And they're on there for, I think, one to two weeks just as a sort of a reprieve from life at the academy and boot camp. In addition, you'll have some of the cadets will come back as first class cadet. But at that point, after, after, you know, sophomore year or second class cadet year, the cadets will likely go on other vessels. There's also going to be other officers coming on board for training and even other services coming on board and using Eagle as a platform for training. It's an incredible thing to be on board, never mind the teamwork bonding that goes on for these officers.

But it's a 90-year-old vessel, Will, how long will this keep on sailing? I'll tell you, my feeling is when you're there, it feels like it's going to go forever. I mean, it's incredible. It's a steel-hulled ship, for one thing. It's been refitted fairly recently, right? Yeah, the ship has gone, undergone. a recent service life extension program. And there's been a lot of thought put into what to do to ensure the Eagle can still

continue to serve. And I'd say this is probably always a conversational point. There are other service academies that have developed modern training vessels that are outstanding platforms for education, curriculum, experience. However, none have, there's nothing that has the pedigree and the history that Eagle has, where it would be very hard to find anything like her or replace her. So when you're on board, you can see how much the Coast Guard appreciates and how well they take care of this ship. Well, it takes you in your mind, you know, and your heart to the very legacy of the U.S. Coast Guard.

and its many, many duties it has served, not only life-saving, but also defense and security and all the sorts of things, the various things, but it takes you right back to Alexander Hamilton. It's an amazing lens through which to see the history of the nation, never mind the Coast Guard itself. And as I remind listeners, you're going to be looking, many of you will be looking at this on July 4th as this parade of amazing vessels, some of which are larger than the USCG Eagle. And they just come into that thing. if you're old enough, you've seen this happen before. Something like 10 or 15 years, every 10 or 15 years on average,

there is such a tall ship parade. They happen all over the world, but there's nothing like it. It just astonishes you in its grandeur and symbolism. It's amazing. Will Soffron will be there. He's coming up the coast with me on that ship that week before. I'll tell you, well, what I'm most excited about is anchoring off a Sandy Hook. I cannot wait to do that.

I don't know that anything in my adult life has excited me as much as this. The idea that we'll be doing what vessels for hundreds of years have been doing, anchoring at that place, and for anybody who doesn't know, the tip of New Jersey is called Sandy Hook, and it's outside the Verrazana Straits. And so that's where ships would anchor and wait for the winds that they needed to carry them in or get the pilots to take them in. It was part of the function of this. And very rarely do you get the chance to be on a ship of that size doing what those historic vessels did, and we'll be there. Will, what are you working on these days beyond this book now that this is published? You're a spokesman for the world of shipping, aren't you? I mean, of sale shipping.

The opportunity to get out sailing is important. Right now I'm wrapping up a manuscript for book three that focuses on experiential learning, which that's how I came across Eagle. I'm profiling the ship in one chapter. But I think I really enjoy telling the world, talking about my experience of sailing, because digital devices are wonderful. I love technology, but there's really nothing better

than putting those things down and getting out there and feeling the wind on your face and the spray of the waves. I'm excited about the kids. I'm excited about those kids seeing this. I was 14 years old of the bicentennial. What do I remember of the bicentennial?

Nothing except those ships. That's the memory they will carry forth from this moment on. So thank you very much for telling the story. Will Soffern is a nautical expert, professional sailor, maritime author, master shipwright, taught at MIT for years and years. And as I said many times in this broadcast, a soon-to-be shipmate of mine aboard the eagle in just a few weeks. Will, my entire life is focused on that week. We will be together.

I can hardly contain myself. I'll see you there. Thanks, Don. I am very excited to see in a couple weeks. Hey, thanks for listening to American History Hit. You know, every week we release new episodes, two new episodes dropping Monday. and Thursdays, all kinds of content from mysterious missing colonies to powerful political movements to some of the biggest battles across the centuries. Don't miss an episode. By hitting like and

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