American Homicide - S1: Bonus Ep 2 - Brian Entin Talks True Crime

Episode Date: January 14, 2025

Host Sloane Glass talks about the true crime cases to watch in 2025 with NewsNation’s Brian Entin. The two discuss the upcoming trial of Bryan Kohberger, the arrest of Luigi Mangioni, and the puzzling death of Ellen Greenberg.   Reach out to the American Homicide team by emailing us: [e-mail]. Be sure to watch Brian Entin on NewsNation and follow him at: X: @BrianEntin IG: @brianentin 🔗 brianentin.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

John Stewart is back in the host chair at The Daily Show, which means he's also back in our ears on The Daily Show Ears Edition podcast. Join late night legend John Stewart and the best news team for today's biggest headlines, exclusive extended interviews and more. Now this is a second term we can all get behind. Listen to The Daily Show Ears Edition on the iHeartRadio app Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, listeners. I'm Lauren Bright-Pacheco, host of the Murder on Songbird Road podcast. And I'm excited to share this riveting story with you. I'm also excited to tell you that you can now get access to all episodes of Murder on Songbird Road, 100% ad free and one week early through the iHeart True Crime Plus subscription, available exclusively on Apple podcasts. Plus, you'll get access to other chart-topping true crime shows you love, like Betrayal, The Girlfriends, Paper Ghosts, Murder Homes, Unrestorable, The Godmother, and more.

So don't wait. Head to Apple Podcasts, search for iHeartTrueCrime Plus, and subscribe today. You should probably keep your lights on for Nocturne Moon, Tales from the Shadow. Join me, Danny Dreifel, and step into the flames of fright. An anthology podcast of modern-day horror stories inspired by the most terrifying legends and lore of Latin America. Listen to Nocturnal on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. Before we begin today, I want to say our thoughts are with everyone in Los Angeles grappling

with the devastating wildfires. This episode was recorded before the fires began, but I felt it would not be right to not acknowledge the current events. It's a stark reminder of how fragile life can be. Our hearts are with you. This is Sloan Glass, post of American Homicide. In this episode, we're doing something different.

Rather than look back at cases, we're looking ahead. It's the start of a new year, and we have highlighted three cases we believe will define true crime in 2025. To discuss the status and implications of these cases, I am joined today by Brian Enten. Brian is the senior national correspondent at News Nation. He's a former colleague of mine and a friend. Brian is an incredible journalist, and he has personally covered all of these stories. The first is a story that captured the nation's attention

at the end of the year, the killing of UnitedHealthcare CEO Brian Thompson. Luigi Mangione has been charged in that case and has pled not guilty. Brian and I discuss what is next for Mangione. Our second case involves the mysterious death of Ellen Greenberg. In 2011, Ellen was found with 20 stab wounds.

Her death was curiously ruled to be a suicide, even though many of those wounds were in her back. After multiple appeals and legal battles, the Pennsylvania State Supreme Court has agreed to review that suicide ruling this year. For our third case we discussed the upcoming trial of Brian Koberger, the man accused of killing four University of Idaho students in 2022. Brian Enton is an expert on the Coburger case and lets us know what we can expect. Here is my conversation with Brian Enton.

Brian Enton, thank you for doing this episode of American Homicide with me. Yeah, thank you so much for having me, Sloane. It's so cool to be here with you. I like to do all my research for true crime on Reddit, as we all do, right? That's where I like to see, what are the people saying? It's a vibe check. Almost every story I look up, someone has commented, well, according to Brian Enten, according to Brian Enten.

Well, and the thing with Reddit and with people on TikTok too and on X, you have people who are so interested in the cases and so invested, and they'll stay up all night going through public records and finding out things that even I didn't know about family members and people connected to the cases. And then they'll send me tips. So it's like, sometimes I feel like I have this little army

of people helping me, and you can find really interesting stuff on Reddit that you don't even see On the news. Are you still news daddy? Is that still yeah, that's still a thing Yeah news daddy and I used to be so embarrassed of it. I don't know where it came from and now I'm just like well I guess it's a kind of you know, it's a thing. I guess you know There's a comfort level that I think you've been able to give to people around really hard stories Yeah, I think that they just feel,

like what you said, that I'm just normal. You try to be professional, we're journalists, you wanna, you know, stick to the facts, but you'd be lying if you just try to say you never got emotional or never felt anger or never related to some of the family members, that kind of thing. I always saw that as an advantage.

I always thought it was so strange when people would say, well, you have to leave that at the door, you have to remove yourself from it. Or even that you can't help people, like, it's just not who I am, like, you have to leave that at the door. You have to remove yourself from it. Or even that you can't help people. Like, it's just not who I am. Like, you know, you'll go out and you'll meet these families and they might need help with something.

Like, hey, do you know someone who does this? Or, you know, we're really low on money. I don't know. I just, I can't just be like, well, line is drawn. I'm a journalist. I mean, I can't do it all the time. Everything we do here is trying to furthering cases. These families deserve that.

It doesn't just end when everyone else is forgetting and moving on, and they deserve to have those connections. And for people to do investigative work, to try to see if there's something that someone else hasn't picked up on. Yeah, I try to be real and like respect the families and what they're going through. And, you know, when you're in the middle of one of these cases,

like with Coburger, like before the arrest, you know, when you're in the middle of one of these cases, like with Coburger, like before the arrest, you know, when the community's so on edge, you just have to remember what people are going through, what the families are going through. And I try not to take advantage. I mean, it's not worth it for the story to be the first always. I would lose sleep at night if I felt like I put someone through more pain than they were already going through, you know? Like with Cob with Koberger, I just remembered this one story. When I went to Kaylee Gonzalva's one of the victims,

I became pretty close to her parents while I was in Idaho and still now. And before Brian Koberger was arrested, I was at their house. They live near Coeur d'Alene, which is a couple hours from Moscow, Idaho, where the murders happened. And we were doing an interview and we were talking and they showed me that Kaylee's ashes

were next to Maddie's ashes. They had them next to each other. They're best friends, right? Yeah, because they were best friends and they just, both families, like Maddie didn't want, parent didn't want to take the ashes away from Kaylee's house, you know, because that gave them comfort.

And so it was really like an emotional thing to see. And we shot it and it was going to be a really big part of our story. And when we left, Kaylee's mom called me and said, we really don't want you to show that part. Like we thought about it and we don't want like people to think that like Maddie's family doesn't care about her or something, because it was the opposite. That's why they kept, you know? And anyway, of course, no questions asked.

I took it out, which I think other people wouldn't have done that, because in the moment, it was a really good exclusive element that no one else had. But like you were saying, when you stay on these cases for so long, it's not worth upsetting them. And then I would have felt terrible about it

if she asked to take it, you know what I mean? Like the other crime reporters and from the other TV networks and stuff will take it. You know what I mean? Like the other crime reporters and from the other TV networks and stuff will come in. You know how it is, they'll parachute in for a couple days. They'll do some live shots and stories and then they'll leave for with like Koberger and some of the others. I've just stayed in those places.

Like basically moved to Idaho for a couple months and then been to pretty much all of the court hearings. So I think people kind of connect with that. They see that I stay at these places and get really, really invested. You stay and you're real. Yeah, you're not a scavenger in any way. You connect with people.

Someone just yesterday called me a prostitute, which I had never heard. I've never heard that phrase before, but then I ended up, I ended up, have you ever heard of that before? I'm a prostitute. And I ended up becoming friends with a guy and like we bonded and he was cool with me after we talked.

Yeah, of course. I wanna talk more about Colberger and everything surrounding that case later. Today, I want us to kind of look at and think about the true crime cases that we should keep an eye out for in 2025. And also you are able to explain to everyone what it's been like to cover some of these stories

in a newsroom environment in the field. It's impossible to start this without talking about Luigi Mangione and what has happened in the UnitedHealthcare CEO shooting. Luigi Mangione has pleaded not guilty to charges in the cold-blooded killing of UnitedHealth Care CEO Brian Thompson. This is a story.

I've never seen anything like this. When the video came out and you had like a prominent CEO shot right there on the street and it was clear that he was targeted, I think the interest level was really, really high then even. We were covering every single day and people were trying to figure out who it was. We got a tip actually that the killer might be from Atlanta. So they flew me to Atlanta. And this is what people don't realize.

I was just sort of chilling in Atlanta because we really thought, I don't know if you remember, they said that the bus went from Atlanta. And we had some other tips and we were even, talk about Reddit, people were sending me photos of people in the Atlanta area that looked like the guy in the surveillance video. We would go drive by their houses. Like we were really investigating the Atlanta area. So I was in Atlanta and then we got the call that they've got a person of interest in Pennsylvania.

So got the first flight to Pennsylvania, but the newsroom was just was crazy. And I think what's interesting is there was so much interest in the story even before the arrest. And a lot of times when there's an arrest, like it kind of goes down because it's like, okay, it's been solved. The killer's not on the run anymore.

But with this, it was like the opposite. I mean, it went crazy when it ended up being Luigi Mangione. He has become a martyr to a lot of people. Yeah, there's like an obsession and it's interesting. It's almost mainstream in a way. It's not like it's, oh, there's this weird, crazy cult and people who aren't showing their faces doing this. It's like some people that I even know,

I don't know if it's the same for you, who have reposted some of these videos. A lot of people think he's really attractive. And I think a lot of people have had bad experiences with their health insurance, and this is sort of an outlet for that. But it is disturbing. Have you ever seen so many photos

come out of someone right away in terms of they took a photo of him in the jail, they took a photo of him outside, they took a photo of him while he was sitting in his jail cell that they released. I've never seen them release photos like that. Then when he arrived in New York City, it was literally like a movie.

I mean, you've got the mayor there and the way they paraded him. That felt totally unnecessary. That felt like- It was slimy, I think. I agree. I thought that that was a slimy move from Adams. Obviously for attention. Why so many body? There were people in SWAT gear and I think they were

trying to make it into a scene. Yes. They were huge. And I think that those guys just wanted to be a part of a big story. They wanted their photo taken. He looks like an apostle. He looks like he is being walked right into his crucifixion surrounded by apostles. And I saw some videos actually where they made him into Jesus.

And you wonder what he's thinking. Is this the moment he was waiting for, to get this kind of attention? And then it turns out that the alleged shooter, highly educated, he's a great speaker. A lot of people think that he's very good looking and he's not in a very apparent way leaning one direction or another

in terms of political parties. And I think that that made the story a lot more nuanced. Some people were imagining that this was someone who was very liberal and it does speak to the climate that we are in today. And I think it's, there's something about not viewing people one direction or another about this story that I think is important.

Yeah, I think so. And I think when the suspect name comes out, we start in the newsroom searching, you know, you've got researchers and people, everybody's trying to figure out who this guy is, who the family is. And usually pretty soon you figure out like, oh, there's, he had this previous criminal charge

or oh, something bad happened or something. It was just so weird to, everything was great about this guy, everything. And we started to, I interviewed people very early on that right after the arrest that went to high school with him. He went to this prominent boarding school outside Baltimore, $40,000 a year, really hard to get into, and he was the valedictorian.

So he was at the top of the class. He was a really, really good wrestler, but he was like a nice guy, they all said. He wasn't like bullying people. You know how sometimes those really cool, popular kids are like jerks? He wasn't like that. It's really rare.

I was trying to think of there's other stories and sometimes people love to say, no one expected, no one expected. There's always someone, there's always some girl who's saying, actually he was really weird or someone in their class who says, this person was really off and we have not heard that at all.

No, not in, not in. It's breaking all the molds that I could have expected. Yeah, not in high school. We interviewed people that he went to Penn with. You know, he got two engineering degrees there. He got his bachelor's and his master's. Again, described as great. He lived in Hawaii for quite some time

at like a surfing hostel. And everyone he lived with there said the same. He was the leader of the book club. He was like everybody's best friend. Was the reaction on social media, how did that translate in the newsroom? How did they interpret that? It's interesting, some of our bosses are so shocked

by the people who love him and these fans that he has, and I think some of the younger people are kind of like understanding of it more, as weird as that is, and they don't agree with it. But I think, I don't know, maybe it's generational. I just think like some of the older people are more shocked by this like admiration for him. Right, I imagine that it would be a tricky story to cover

when you're balancing the reality of what's happening on social media and also needing to deliver the facts of the case. It is too because you kind of, you know, when you're covering someone accused of doing something so horrible, a lot of times you lean into the bad things about the person because now they've become an accused killer.

Whereas with him, I remember even after a couple of my live shots thinking like, I feel like I'm describing him as such a good person. But everyone we were interviewing was saying that. I didn't interview anyone who said anything bad. But Brian, he is alleged. And I think that people forget that. He is the alleged shooter.

So I think you are reporting on him as you're hearing him to be. Of course, yeah. But the evidence, I mean, the evidence is pretty overwhelming. The manifesto, the police are telling the truth. He had the gun. He had gun bullets with him. I have so many questions around that and it makes me think of all the conspiracy theories

that I don't think that they're going to stop anytime soon. I mean, there's always so many conspiracy theories with these cases now. I think people almost It's like a hobby for people to just come up with every crazy Possibility that they can think of and then like you said they posted on reddit and people comment and there's been so many I mean The eyebrows the eyebrows are the only one that I can't I have a hard time Connecting the dots between him and all the photos that we I can't, I have a hard time connecting the dots between him and all the photos that we saw when they were looking for a suspect.

It doesn't seem like all those photos are actually him. Those are him. I think that they were just looking for people with a hoodie at that point that matched it. But again, if you go back now to the evidence that they have, I mean, it's a pretty good case in terms of he had the same gun on him, police are telling the truth, which why would they be lying? Right.

The bullets, the manifesto. The ID. The ID. Mm-hmm. And I mean, what he screamed out outside the courthouse. He didn't say, I'm innocent. No. I'm completely out of touch.

And it's an insult to the intelligence of the American people and to their experience. So. This is not going away anytime soon. It's only going to get bigger. What's interesting though, Sloan, as we talk about it moving into this year and all the things coming up with Luigi Mangione,

we are not gonna see him for a while, which is kind of interesting. We saw the crazy perp walks and all the photos and video, but now that it's federal, there's no cameras allowed in federal court. What do you think of the federal charges? I was surprised. I wasn't expecting it. I think a lot of people think that he was overcharged just because of all the attention on the case. But when you read the charges, I mean, it

does it does make sense. I mean, it brings the death penalty on the table, which is interesting because, you know, if they were just state charges in New York, you know, there's no death penalty. Right. But now there is. Yeah, I saw yesterday, I believe this was on NBC, they're saying that there's been very few federal death penalty cases where that has, I think this is 17 since the 1970s. It's very rare in the federal system. And 13 were under Trump. Yeah. So I am curious to see how that can shape things.

He's facing charges in New York State and then also federally. I think the federal trial is going to happen first. Yeah, that's the way it works. The federal charges come first, then the New York State charges, and then there's charges in Pennsylvania too. Remember, you showed a fake ID, they were less serious, but... We don't know when the trial will be. And I think in 2025, we are going to continue to hear more.

And another random weird fact to keep an eye on this year is his attorney is married to Diddy's attorney. Yes. is married to Diddy's attorney. And Luigi Mangione and Diddy are in the same federal prison in New York City and likely in the same wing, because they have a wing where they put more high profile people. So it's just kind of strange to think about.

That's so weird. Yeah, isn't it? It's so weird too, because a month ago, no one knew his name. And now we're talking about how crazy it is that someone that high profile would be jailed in the same area as Diddy. It's just wild how news works.

I don't know if you think about this when you're covering cases. Like in the beginning, like when the name first comes out, I always have a hard time remembering it. Like Luigi Mangione, how am I gonna remember that? And now it's just like, we say it like it's, you know? Yes, totally. John Stewart is back in the host chair at The Daily Show,

which means he's also back in our ears on The Daily Show Ears Edition podcast. The Daily Show podcast has everything you need to stay on top of today's news and pop culture. You get hilarious satirical takes on entertainment, politics, sports, and more from John and the team of correspondents and contributors. The podcast also has content you can't get anywhere else, like extended interviews and a roundup of the weekly headlines.

Listen to The Daily Show, Ears Edition on the iHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Jason Alexander. And I'm Peter Tilden. And together on the Really No Lily podcast, our mission is to get the true answers to life's baffling questions like... Why they refuse to make the bathroom door go all the way to the floor. We got the answer. Will space junk block your cell signal? The astronaut who the way to the floor? We got the answer.

Will space junk block your cell signal? The astronaut who almost drowned during a spacewalk gives us the answer. We talk with the scientist who figured out if your dog truly loves you and the one bringing back the wooly mammoth. Plus, does Tom Cruise really do his own stunts? His stuntman reveals the answer. And you never know who's going to drop by. Mr. Brian Cranston is with us today.

How are you, too? Wayne Knight about Jurassic Park. Wayne Knight, welcome to Really No Really, sir. Bless you all. Hello, Newman. And you never know when Howie Mandel might just stop by to talk about judging. Really? That's the opening? Really No Really, yeah.

No Really. Go to ReallyNoReally.com. And register to win $500, a guest spot on our podcast or a limited edition signed Jason Bobblehead. It's called Really No Really and you can find it on the iHeartRadio app, on Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, listeners. I'm Lauren Bright-Pacheco, host of the Murder on Songbird Road podcast.

Murder on Songbird Road revisits a controversial 2020 murder that occurred in southern Illinois. It divided a community and pitted families against one another, but questions remain as to whether the mother of four serving time for the crime is actually guilty. I'm excited to tell you that you can get access to all episodes of Murder on Songbird Road, 100% ad-free and one week before anyone else with an iHeart True Crime Plus subscription. So don't wait. Head to Apple Podcasts, search for iHeart True Crime Plus and subscribe today.

I want to also talk to you about our next case, Ellen Greenberg. Ellen Greenberg's death happened, you probably don't know this, so close to where our office is. I mean, less than a mile. Ellen Greenberg's body was found in the kitchen of her apartment during a blizzard in late January of 2011. Court records show Ellen's fiance was at the gym and returned to find their maniunk apartment door deadbolted. After an hour of trying to reach

her record show, he broke down the door to find Ellen slumped in the kitchen. She had been stabbed 20 times. The Philadelphia medical examiner originally ruled her matter of death a suicide, then changed it to homicide before switching it back to suicide. Since then, her parents have been The all the details of these cases because of the time that we have. But her fiance at the time says that the door to their apartment was locked. Eventually, he has to break down the door, according to her fiance, Sam. He sees her unconscious, she's covered in blood,

and then he calls 911. He is telling the 911 operator that he has no idea what's going on. They ask him to perform CPR, kind of hesitates. He hesitates. That bothers me. Very strange 911 call. Very strange. We'll play the 911 phone call.

OK. So get her flat on her back. Bear her chest. OK, you want to rip her shirt off. Oh, shit. OK. Heel down by her side. Oh, my God. Ellie, please. Listen, listen. You can't freak out, sir, because you're trying to... Okay, I'm trying not to.

I'm trying not to. Her shirt won't come off. It's a zipper. Oh, my God. She stabbed herself. Where? She fell with a knife. Oh, no.

Her knife's sticking out. A what? There's a knife sticking out of her heart. Oh, she stabbed herself? I guess so. I don't know where she fell on it. I don't know where she fell. I don't know where she fell.

I don't know where she fell. I don't know where she fell. I don't know where she fell. I don't know where she fell. I don't know getting into the habit of over analyzing 911 phone calls because I don't want to, who knows how people will react. Very fair. First of all, this case, it makes me mad that it's gone on this long and this has been classified as a suicide. I actually saw the real crime scene photos, which haven't been made public, but Ellen Greenberg's family lawyer showed them to me. And she's sitting in her kitchen.

When he goes in, the police got photos of the way she was sitting. She's up against the cabinets, and there's just this giant, like seven inch steak knife just right in her heart. And it's, I forget how long of a call, but it's quite a ways into this call that, oh my gosh, there's a knife.

So I- She stabbed herself. Or she fell on her knife. So, right, he said- He says she fell on her knife. So if you saw these pictures, Lona, I wouldn't want anyone to see them, because they're awful,

but I wanted to see them for because they're awful, but I wanted to see them for this reason. There is no way you would miss this knife. There is no way. Not to mention, she was stabbed 20 times in the front and in the back. And there's been medical experts, pathologists, who have gone and looked at the records

and even examined her spinal cord. She was stabbed in her spinal cord, which would have made her, like, she wouldn't have been able to keep stabbing herself. It feels like a joke to call it suicide. It's unbelievable. And what happened originally was the medical examiner ruled it a homicide. And then there's this meeting with Philadelphia police and it gets changed to suicide. Yeah, which has never made sense.

And you mentioned the fiance's name, Sam Goldberg. I mean, look, he's never been charged with anything. Who knows if he's involved or what, but it's not a suicide. It's just not Sloan. I mean, I've looked at everything. I've looked at the record. It's it's impossible for this woman to have killed herself Yeah, the stabbed herself 20 times and in the spinal cord It's so strange to me for your mind to go to suicide and again, I'm projecting I have not been in this situation

I don't know what it's like to be in shock, but if I walked into my apartment and I saw my fiancee on the floor covered in blood with a knife in their chest and he says on the 911 call, no, no one broke in. How can you know that right away? I mean, my mind would go to so many other places. I feel really bothered by, and maybe this is part of 2011, just because she was on prescribed medication, that this was seen as someone who was mentally ill. I mean, listen, they thought it was a homicide at first. Right.

They called it a crime scene. You mentioned the blizzard. I think that's important because I don't think like as many police officers were able to get out there and detectives initially, but they called it a homicide. Police met with a medical examiner, it got changed to suicide. But even since then, the medical examiner has said, has considered changing it back to homicide.

And at one point even told one of the prosecutors, I intend to change it back to homicide. I agree, but for some reason it's just never happened. And no one will say why. I mean, she was a school teacher, she was a wonderful woman. And, but it was just little things you remember. One of the friends told me, like she was obsessed with her hair, Ellen.

She was really into her hair. And they're like, if she was going to kill herself, which she never would have, there is no way she would have stabbed, because it was all in the back of the head and the hair. They're like, she would have never done that to her hair, which they're just like, as her best friend, I just know that. That's not the way she would have stabbed because it was all in the back of the head and the hair. They're like, she would have never done that. Yeah. To her hair, which they're just like, as her best friend, I just know that. That's not the way she would have done it.

I always think about with the snow, her family couldn't get out right away to be with her. You've spent time with them, right? Yeah. What was that like? Hard. They've been fighting for so long. They've spent almost a million dollars of their own money for lawyer fees, just fighting, fighting, fighting.

They're suing the city now. They're suing police, trying to claim that there's a cover-up, and just fighting to try to get the case reopened. And everybody, they hire all of these experts and pathologists who all say the same thing. There's no way it could be a suicide, but for some reason, the city of Philadelphia just has dug their heels in. Pennsylvania is part of the reason why people are talking about this story again, because of Josh Pirro.

He was the governor of Pennsylvania, seen as potentially a possible VP pick for the Democratic Party, but he was attorney general, right? And they turned it over to him and he kept the ruling as— Status quo, yeah. And that's always been very upsetting to the family. And I was even there. So there's two things that are ongoing now with this case. One is they're suing the city and Philadelphia police and there was a hearing I was just at.

It was so weird to be in the courtroom because there's Ellen's parents, and they have their lawyer, and they're like the little legal team, and then on the other side of the room is just like all these lawyers for the city of Philadelphia. Like they're fighting the city of Philadelphia. The city of Philadelphia does not want

like to release records. I don't, I mean, their lawyer thinks that maybe it was just a botched investigation, and now they're just trying to cover it up. Really, the only thing they can do at this point is sue them for their pain and suffering and saying you've caused all this pain and suffering by covering this up for so long. But then they're also taking this to the Supreme Court in Pennsylvania, which is a really big deal.

It almost never happens. The Supreme Court took the case, which is huge. And so they're going to hear it in the beginning of this year. And that's going to be a really big deal because the Supreme Court is going to have to decide whether or not Ellen's parents have the right to challenge the cause of death. Initially, they said that there was no sign of struggle, which was part of the decision to keep the cause of death as suicide. Right. And they just didn't think there was a way, you know,

I think the apartment was on the third or fourth floor and then the door was locked, they said, so they thought there was no way for anyone to have even gotten into the killer. But she did have bruises on her body. I saw the pictures, she did have a lot of bruises. There's something that just- So how is there no sign of-

Sloan, this is just one of those, there's something we don't know. There's a reason, again, was it just shoddy police work in the beginning and then they were trying to cover up for the one before that one, you know what I mean? Or is there something more going on? Were they trying to protect someone? I don't know, but there's no question

that it is not a suicide and that this family has just, I mean, there's just been an injustice. What do you say to them when you're with her parents? I promise them that I won't stop covering it. And that's all you really can do. I mean, that we'll stay on it, that we won't give up, we'll keep doing the stories. And I think that gives them some,

they've been abandoned by the police and people for so long. Ellen Greenberg is a case that in 2025, I'm hopeful that there'll be some movement forward. Even though this happened in 2011, I hope they still get justice. Yeah, truly. Jon Stewart is back in the host chair at The Daily Show, which means he's also back in our ears on The Daily Show Ears Edition podcast. The Daily Show podcast

has everything you need to stay on top of today's news and pop culture. You get hilarious satirical takes on entertainment, politics, sports, and more from John and the team of correspondents and contributors. The podcast also has content you can't get anywhere else, like extended interviews and a roundup of the weekly headlines. Listen to The Daily Show, Ears Edition on the iHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Jason Alexander. And I'm Peter Tilden. And together on the Really No Lily Podcast, our mission is to get the true answers to life's baffling questions like why they refuse to make the bathroom door go all the way to the floor

we got the answer will space junk block your cell signal the astronaut who almost drowned during a spacewalk gives us the answer we talked with the scientist who figured out if your dog truly loves you and the one bringing back the wooly mammoth plus does tom cruise really do his own stunts his stunt man reveals the answer and you never know who's going to drop by. Mr. Brian Cranston is with us today. How are you, sir? Hello, my friend. Wayne Knight about Jurassic Park.

Wayne Knight, welcome to Really No Really, sir. Bless you all. Hello, Newman. And you never know when Howie Mandel might just stop by to talk about judging. Really? That's the opening? Really No Really. Yeah.

No Really. Go to ReallyNoReally.com. And register to win $500, a guest spot on our podcast or a limited edition signed Jason Bobblehead. It's called Really No Really and you can find it on the iHeartRadio app on Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, listeners. I'm Lauren Bright-Pacheco, host of the Murder on Songbird Road podcast.

Murder on Songbird Road revisits a controversial 2020 murder that occurred in southern Illinois. It divided a community and pitted families against one another, but questions remain as to whether the mother of four serving time for the crime is actually guilty. I'm excited to tell you that you can get access to all episodes of Murder on Songbird Road, 100% ad-free and one week

before anyone else with an iHeart True Crime Plus subscription. So don't wait. Head to Apple Podcasts, search for iHeart True Crime Plus and subscribe today. I want to talk to you about Brian Kullberger. We're having a trial this year in August. Can you just set up for everyone what happened? Yeah, so basically, you know, these four University of Idaho students were asleep in their beds in Moscow, Idaho, and they were just savagely stabbed to death in the night.

And there was a massive manhunt. No one knew who did it. The country was really just perplexed and into this story. And then Brian Koberger was arrested. He was getting his PhD in criminology at Washington State, which isn't far from University of Idaho where this happened, probably about 20 minutes. He was arrested and it's just sort of dragged on for a couple years in terms of the court process.

And now there will finally be a trial in August. I want you to tell the story about when you first got a tip about Coburger. Yeah, I'm just- You have to tell that a lot. No, no, there's just so, there's so much with Coburger, it was like my life for... Yeah, talk about that, but... It still is, but...

But, because you lived there, you moved there, what it's like to be embedded in a story like that. You just become obsessed, especially because, you know, there was no arrest for so long and there was, I mean, again, I became close to the families. These were just innocent kids, innocent college kids. And, you know, just I became obsessed with trying to figure out what happened. And we mentioned like the army of people online, like, you know, the whole country and world was like obsessed with it. So it was really an intense time.

And I got this tip and I don't want to like give away too much because I don't want to give away any sources or anything, but I got this tip, and I don't want to give away too much, because I don't want to give away any sources or anything, but I got this tip to come to Pennsylvania because there had been an arrest. And it was from someone that worked within the jail system. And that's what's so interesting. A lot of people have these high up law enforcement sources, and I have some of them, but for me,

the people who always come through for me are just like regular people that I've met on social media who know someone or they just contact me directly, and that's kind of what happened in this situation, and they were just like, you need to get to Pennsylvania right away. Like, you know, it was just a random message on social media, so I said, what's your phone?

That is, you got a DM. A DM, yeah. And I talked to the person and got on the plane and that's how we were the first ones to break it. Yeah. I remember on the other side things being in the newsroom and hearing Enten's being sent to Pennsylvania. I'm like, why is it? You can't pull him. Because none of us knew right away why exactly you were going to Pennsylvania. Yeah, I remember telling my boss, like, I think I need to go to Pennsylvania. I'm not positive, but I have a really strong feeling that this is going to be it.

So we went and then the, you know, the arrest happened or the arrest had already happened, but it came out that he was locked up, and it was just, it was crazy. I went out to their house, to his parents' house, where he was arrested. Um, just kind of another crazy story, kind of to, like, sneak into the gated community there, because they lived in a gated community. Which, again, is just kind of my style, like, every, you know,

all the other reporters are outside, and I'm like, can someone get me into the gated community? How did you sneak in? Um, again, someone messaged me on ex Twitter at the time and said, Oh, I live in the neighborhood, just FYI. Like I'm just, I wrote her back. I'm like, can you take me in? Like, can we meet at the gas station down the street?

And so she met me, I got in her car and she drove me in and took me to their house. And like the front window was all bashed because you know, the police had busted inside. Wow. Yeah. So I videoed. And there's been a few times I've done things where maybe I went a little too far. This might've been one of those times.

It was so dark, I went up to their door and knocked on the door and videoed, and they were inside saying, leave, leave. And some people got mad at me for that, because people felt for his parents. It wasn't their fault, and I was banging on their door like in the middle of the night. But, you know, it's like you kind of have to do it.

You never know. People want to talk to you sometimes. Right. That is the thing. Sometimes people want to answer the door. It happens a lot. Yeah. It's really unbelievable, Brian. And then you're... It's not like it ends for you there.

You're just embedded in the story. Yeah, I mean, we followed them back to, you know, they transported them back to Idaho and like I said, I go to most of the court hearings. It's interesting the trial has been moved, you know, it was in Moscow, Idaho, which is just this little baby college town, little small courthouse, and they were worried they wouldn't be able to get a fair jury there. So it's been moved to Boise, which is a bigger city. And so that's where the trial will be in August in Boise. Wow.

Which is hard for the families. They have to travel there. It's probably going to take two months, the trial. I'm so curious what his defense is going to say. I think it's going to be a crazy trial because there's been a gag order. So we know the basics from the probable cause affidavit that came out when they arrested him, but there are all sorts of questions about whether he knew the victims and what led up to the

murders and like all of that stuff has remained under seal. Right. And I just want to give more background for people. So there's no clear connection, no direct clear connection between Koberger and the victims. Not that we know of, no. And what's believed at this time is that he was possibly stalking them. Possibly, yeah.

Koberger stalking, we don't know why. Why them? One theory is, you know, he, and I've reported this and interviewed people, you know, he had a rough time with women, rejection at times, and then he had a rough time with women rejection at times. And then he was really awful to some women and even got kicked out of a bar once

because he was just awful to this one female bartender. So there's one theory that, you know, he just had this like hatred for women from rejection. Right. But then there is also, he was getting his PhD in criminology. He had done a survey about what it felt like for people when they committed crimes. So some people think he was trying to get into the mind of a...

I don't buy that. Maybe when he was doing the survey, he was trying to get into the mind of a killer. I don't think that's the reason why he killed. I don't think he was living out some fantasy of the perfect crime. To me, that just feels like too much of a game. It feels personal. I just don't know what the connection is between him of the perfect crime. To me, that just feels like too much of a game.

It feels personal. I just don't know what the connection is between him and the victims. And you can see from his phone records, he kept driving by their place. That's what the prosecution says. The defense has said, oh, he was pinging in that area because he liked to go on drives and stargaze.

So that's one thing that's come out that could be the defense. Interesting. It's going to be interesting because they found the knife sheath in the house. That was the big connection. He allegedly left the knife sheath behind and then they found a piece of DNA on the knife sheath that connected back to him. But the way they did the DNA testing is really experimental these days.

The defense says it's called investigative genetic genealogy. And basically they got the piece of DNA off the knife sheath and then like, you know, like 23andMe and you can do those things. They used that database to try to figure out who the DNA belonged to, which hasn't been done. Like the Golden State Killer.

Which hasn't been done a lot though. Wow. And I can already tell that the defense, that's gonna be something they really go after, like the science of that and how accurate it is. But there's a lot, I think there's a lot we don't know. The prosecution might have a lot that we don't know. Right.

Because again, this gag order. We're not gonna know, yes. That's why I think it's gonna be a really interesting trial. I think it's gonna be one of those trials where there's just a ton of new information. Yes. That comes out. Yeah, I agree.

I also think he just has a certain look about him that is haunting. Yeah, he's intense. He's intense. I mean, I've been in the same room as him a lot of times for these hearings. What is that like? It's awkward, especially when it was in Moscow, Idaho before it recently got moved to Boise. So the families would come in for the big hearings and he sits so close to them.

I mean, because it's just awkward, you know? Like the one victim, Kaylee, her sister came to one of the hearings and had a baby. And so she brought her baby to the hearing. And the baby was like, I don't know, I always think back to this. It's like one of those moments I won't forget. The baby was like kind of cooing during the hearing and the baby was like, I don't know, I always think back to this. It's like one of those moments, I won't forget. The baby was like kind of cooing during the hearing, but like Brian Koberger was so close to them, like, you know, just right over, right, you know,

maybe 10 feet away. And it was just so weird, like, here's the guy accused of killing your sister and you're sitting right here with your new baby all in the same little room together. Just like, you know, certain moments you're just like, this is really intense. Yeah, this is, it's become some sort of generational,

Yeah. weird, cosmic, and I don't mean cosmic in a caramel way, I mean cosmic, and how did we end up here? Yeah, and families want to, and I get it, I mean, luckily I haven't had anyone in my family get killed or anything, but you know, there's a real desire to go and I get it, I mean, luckily I haven't had anyone in my family get killed or anything, but you know, there's a real desire to go to these court hearings and to be there and show face.

Yeah. It makes sense. Also, I think it, I mean, the advice that families get is that being seen goes a long way and helps the judge and the jury to understand them more. That's part of the whole judicial system that's so awful, kind of the spectacle. Yeah, but it's true. I mean, if you if you're the judge and you see the family members sitting right there crying, you probably are gonna think to yourself, look what this person may have done to this thing, you know?

Of course. When you make your decisions. They're a human being, you know? A judge is not a computer. It's wild. Brian, I know that we're all gonna be watching you covering that trial. Thank you, sweetheart. And I'm just so grateful that you joined us today. Of course.

Thank you for helping us to kind of get a sense and understand the stories that we can look out for and also just revealing more of behind the scenes of your life and what it's been like. Thanks for having me. Thank you for listening to this bonus episode of American Homicide. You can contact the American Homicide team by emailing us at americanhomicidepod at gmail.com. That's americanhomicidepod at gmail.com. That's American Homicide pod at gmail.com. New episodes of American Homicide will be dropping every Thursday. And if you enjoy American Homicide, please

follow the show on Apple podcasts, the iHeart app or Spotify. Another way to engage with us is to rate and review the show. Your five star review goes a long way towards helping others find American homicide. John Stewart is back in the host chair at The Daily Show, which means he's also back in our ears on The Daily Show Ears Edition podcast. Join late night legend John Stewart and the best news team for today's biggest headlines, exclusive extended interviews and more. Now this is a second term we can all get behind. Listen to The Daily Show, Ears Edition,

on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, listeners, I'm Lauren Bright-Pacheco, host of the Murder on Songbird Road podcast, and I'm excited to share this riveting story with you. I'm also excited to tell you that you can now get access to all episodes of Murder on Songbird Road, 100% ad-free, and one week early

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You should probably keep your lights on for Nocturne, Tales from the Shadow. Join me, Danny Dreher, and step into the flames of fright. Join me, Danny Dre, and step into the flames of right. An anthology podcast of modern day horror stories inspired by the most terrifying legends and lore of Latin America. Listen to Nocturnal on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.