American Scandal - Jim and Tammy Faye Bakker | Faith Not Fact | 1

Episode Date: June 11, 2024

After marrying and dropping out of bible college in the early 1960s, Jim and Tammy Faye Bakker launch a traveling evangelical show with puppets, which catches the attention of televangelist Pat Robertson. Robertson offers them their first TV show on his new Christian Broadcasting Network. By the 1970s, the Bakkers strike out on their own, launching their own ministry and television network, Praise the Lord. But as the Bakkers use their followers’ donations to fund their lavish lifestyle, it raises alarm bells for PTL staff. Need more American Scandal? With Wondery+, enjoy exclusive seasons, binge new seasons first, and listen completely ad-free. Start your free trial in the Wondery App, Apple Podcasts, Spotify or visit wondery.app.link/IM5aogASNNb now.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Hi, this is Lindsey Graham, host of American Scandal. Our back catalog has moved behind a paywall. Recent episodes remain free, but older ones will require a Wondery Plus subscription. With Wondery Plus, you get access to the full American Scandal archive, ad-free, plus early access to new seasons and more. Join Wond is sitting in the backseat of a black sedan, staring silently out the window as he heads to the city's federal courthouse. He pushes up his glasses and dabs at his damp face. He still can't believe

this is happening. For more than a decade, he and his wife, Tammy Faye, were like the king and queen of Christian media. They built an empire that oversaw 2,500 employees, a theme park, and a satellite TV network that beamed into 14 million homes in the U.S. and 40 countries abroad. But now people are calling him a criminal, all because he couldn't provide as many hotel rooms at his Christian resort as promised. To Baker, the whole thing feels ridiculous, but the consequences could not be more serious. If convicted, he could get 120 years in federal prison. Baker tries to picture a narrow, cold cell. Rust-flecked prison bars, some beefy, tattooed, leering cellmate. He shudders.

Baker then leans forward in his seat. George, can we talk for a minute? Baker's lead attorney, George Davis, turns from the passenger seat and squints at him through a pair of thick bifocals. Yeah, sure, Jim. There's no chance that I'll actually get a life sentence for this, right? Well, I wouldn't say there's no chance, but it doesn't make any sense. I've done nothing wrong. All I did was make promises that haven't come true yet. That's what dreamers do. I mean, then God takes those dreams and turns them into reality. Well, Jim, that might be so,

but it's not God we have to convince, you know. It's the jury. Well, that's where you come in, right? You'll make the jury see that I'm innocent. I'm going to do my best, but look, Jim, I've said all along that this won't be easy. The prosecution is sure to come out swinging. They're going to say you defrauded your followers,

that you told them their donations would guarantee them rooms in your hotels, even though you knew you didn't actually have enough rooms to accommodate them all. But that's not right. I was going to have all the rooms ready eventually. Look, eventually is not going to cut it with the federal government. But still, don't worry. If our defense strategy works, the detail about the rooms won't even matter. We're going to argue that you're running a church, not a hotel. And when people give money to a church, they don't expect anything in return. That's right. That's right.

Our followers love us. They make their donations freely with an open heart. The rooms were really just our way of thanking them. Exactly. Now just straighten up that tie and get ready. Pull me into the courthouse. Baker emerges from the sedan into a crowd of people, held back by stone-faced policemen. And as he climbs the concrete courthouse steps, Baker thinks of Moses crossing the parted Red Sea.

Cameras flash and click all around him. Some of the bystanders hold posters with Baker's grinning face on them. Others thrust pens at him, asking for an autograph. One woman cries out that God will protect him, just as a man in the crowd screams that Baker will burn in hell. And when Baker reaches the top of the courthouse steps, a reporter steps out with a microphone, asking for comment. Baker looks back at the surging throng of supporters and enemies,

and then up at the cloud-streaked sky. He keeps his gaze upward for a moment, then lowers his head, leans into the microphone, and loudly declares his faith in God. And with that, Baker turns and walks into the courthouse. He's determined to win this case and convince the world that he's not a fraud, not a thief, but merely a humble, honest man, guilty of nothing more than a desire to spread Christ's love and light throughout the world. In the past decade, Boeing has been involved in a series of scandals and deadly crashes that have dented its once sterling reputation. At the center of it all, the 737 MAX, the latest

season of Business Wars, explores how Boeing allowed things to turn deadly and what, if anything, can save the company's reputation. Make sure to listen to Business Wars wherever you get your podcasts. From Wondery, I'm Lindsey Graham, and this is American Scandal. In the 1980s, Jim and Tammy Faye Baker were two of the most famous religious leaders in America. They launched an evangelical TV network, hosted their own shows, and created a Christian resort and theme park that was visited by 6 million people a year at its peak. The Bakers built an empire and financed it all through donations from their viewers. But those viewers had no idea that some of their donations were actually being used for other insidious purposes that had nothing to do with the couple's religious work.

Quietly, Jim Baker had gotten himself into some serious trouble with the FCC and the IRS. And then a young church secretary claimed Baker sexually assaulted her and used church resources to cover up the crime. By 1989, Baker stood accused of defrauding his followers of more than $150 million and using that money to fund his and Tammy Faye's over-the-top lifestyle. When the media and federal prosecutors exposed the Bakers' transgressions, their downfall was swift. The Bakers and their company, PTL, became uniquely American symbols of greed,

religious hypocrisy, and celebrity gone awry. This is episode one in our series on Jim and Tammy Faye Baker, Faith, Not Fact. It's winter 1960 on the campus of North Central Bible College in Minneapolis, Minnesota. It's a Christian school affiliated with the Assemblies of God Church. And 18-year-old Tammy Faye LaVallee is walking across the quad, hugging her wool coat up around her ears to shield her from the frosty air. At 4'10 and 73 pounds, Tammy is almost always cold, so she generally avoids taking long walks on snowy nights like this one. But when Jim Baker asked if she'd go out on a date with him, she couldn't refuse.

Tammy turns a soft smile towards Jim, who walks by her side. He's 20 years old, handsome, well-dressed and self-confident, with warm brown eyes and dark hair combed into a perfect ducktail. And so far tonight, he's also been a perfect gentleman. Instead of taking her to some usual date spot, Jim brought her to one of his favorite local churches and listened attentively as the minister shared the word of the Lord. But now, as they walk back towards her dorm,

Tammy is very aware of the fact that the two of them are alone. And in her experience, this is when boys tend to drop the gentleman act. Tammy hopes that Jim won't try to put the moves on her. She really likes him, but before this relationship can go any further, she has to make sure that their morals and beliefs are in alignment. So she's keeping the conversation formal and the distance between them at arm's length. What did you think of tonight's sermon, Jim? Oh, it was great. You look a little cold, Tammy. You'd be warmer over here. No, I'm fine right here.

Well, all right, if that's what you want. What I really want is to know a little bit more about you. Well, I've pretty much told you everything, haven't I? I'm from Muskegon, Michigan. I'm a sophomore. I don't have a car yet, but I'm saving up for one. I like Elvis Presley records, and I like you. What else is there?

No, I'm not talking about that stuff. I want to know why you're here. Why Bible College? What made you decide to walk with the Lord? Well, that's quite a long story, and it is getting late. Maybe best to save it for another night. I'd like to hear it now, if that's all right. It's important to me. Well, since it's important to you. Jim pauses and lowers his eyes. He suddenly seems shy, like he's reluctant to share this story. But then when he begins speaking, his air of quiet confidence returns. I guess it was two years ago. Back then, I went to church on Sundays, but, you know, just because my father made me.

I didn't really feel it in my heart yet. But one night after a Sunday evening service, I'm cruising in my father's 52 Cadillac with one of the girls from church. You know, we're laughing it up, got the rock and roll cranked up loud, and I guess I just took my eyes off the road or something because all of a sudden we hit something, a bump in the road. I stopped the car,

thinking I might have damaged my dad's Cadillac, but then I looked back, and there's a boy in the road, a little boy. I'd run right over him. Oh, no. His name was Jimmy Summerfield, the son of one of my father's friends. He was only three.

When I ran over to him, I could see my car marks right there across his chest. He was breathing, but barely. We rushed him to the hospital, and I knew that if he died that night, I'd never forgive myself. Oh, my goodness. What happened at the hospital? Well, that if he died that night, I'd never forgive myself. Oh my goodness, what happened at the hospital? Well, the doctor saved him. Little Jimmy, he's just fine today, but that night, oh, that night changed my life forever. I knew that God had worked a miracle right there in that hospital. I knew I couldn't control my own destiny anymore. My future was entirely in the hands of God. and so I surrendered myself to him.

You're right, Jim. That was a true miracle. Praise Jesus. So God opened up my eyes that night, Tammy, and he brought me here. And you want to know why? I think so I could meet the prettiest girl in the world. Baker stops walking and reaches for Tammy's hand. She takes it.

Tammy, would you kiss me? I've never kissed a boy on a first date. But as Jim looks deeply into Tammy's eyes, she can feel herself lean forward until her lips are on his. They stand there together like that for several moments before Tammy pulls away. They continue walking, hand in hand, toward Tammy's dorm, and Jim talks about his dream for the future. He says he wants to become a famous preacher one day,

traveling the world and spreading the gospel. He says that he hopes that Tammy will be by his side when he does, and Tammy's starting to hope so too. After their first date, Jim Baker and Tammy Faye LaVallee's relationship moves fast. On their second date, Jim asks Tammy to go steady. On their third date, he proposes. And on April 1st, 1961, they get married.

Jim is 21 and Tammy 19. It's against policy at North Central Bible College for students to marry during the school year. So after saying their vows, Jim and Tammy drop out and start looking towards the future. Jim has a very clear vision of what that future should be. He wants to become a traveling evangelist, and he wants to be on TV. So the Bakers strike out from Minnesota and travel from church to church across the U.S. To make their sermons fun for the whole family, they decide to start using hand puppets in their show,

which turns out to be a huge success. The puppets make the Bakers celebrities across the Bible Belt and attract the attention of someone with the power to make their dreams come true. Pat Robertson is one of the country's most influential evangelicals and an aspiring media mogul. When he hears about the Baker's Christian puppet show, he realizes they could make the perfect addition to CBN, his new Christian broadcasting network based in Portsmouth, Virginia.

So Robertson offers the Bakers a slot in his lineup, and The Jim and Tammy Show quickly becomes the network's biggest hit, with songs, stories, and colorful characters that win the Bakers a large, devoted audience. Before long, the Jim and Tammy show puppet Zippy the Mailbox is receiving thousands of fan letters from kids every week. But on one night in November 1965, Jim Baker discovers that he has a special talent for getting his audience to send more than just fan mail. That evening, Jim is on air live for CBN's annual telethon. Christian Television still doesn't run commercials,

so it relies on viewer donations to stay in business. Usually, Baker feels right at home in front of the cameras, but right now he's struggling because it's the last night of the telethon and they're still $40,000 short of Pat Robertson's goal. Baker's eyes dart around the TV studio, taking it all in. The cameras, the lights, the golden curtains, his big wood panel desk. Hosting a successful television show has made him feel like a real celebrity, and he loves it. But if he lets down Robertson tonight, all of this could go away.

He needs to motivate people to make more donations, and fast. Entertainment alone isn't going to do it. He needs to speak people to make more donations and fast. Entertainment alone isn't going to do it. He needs to speak to their hearts. So ignoring the cue cards, Baker looks directly into the nearest camera and says that he hasn't wanted to tell anyone this, but actually the network is on the verge of bankruptcy. This telethon was the station's last hope. If it can't generate $40,000 within the next few hours,

then CBN will be forced to leave the airwaves. No more Pat Robertson. No more Jim and Tammy. No more Zippy the mailbox. Baker stops for a moment. What he just said wasn't exactly true. CBN isn't on the verge of bankruptcy, and God wouldn't want him to lie. But CBN does need the money, and surely God must have been the one that gave Baker the idea to exaggerate in the first place. Suddenly, Baker hears a phone ring toward the rear of the studio, where CBN employees take donation pledges. Then another phone rings, and another. Baker realizes his plea is working. People are calling in to donate, and Baker wants more of them. So he clears his throat and then blinks a few times. He pictures himself having to give up

this TV studio, his nice suit, his car. All of these things could be taken away from him if CBN really were to go out of business. Baker's eyes begin to sting. He could wipe them, but doesn't. Instead, he lets tears fall. Because it's okay for the viewers at home to see him weep. To see how badly CBN needs this money. Three more phones begin ringing at the same time. Then four more ring after that. The volunteers excitedly thank the callers for their generous donations.

Baker smiles through his tears. Only three hours later, CBN has exceeded its fundraising goals, with Baker raising $105,000 in one night. Finally, at 2.30 a.m., Baker signs off, feeling like God just handed him another miracle and a strategy for the future. Over the next six years, Jim and Tammy Faye Baker's fame only skyrockets. They launch a second show called The 700 Club. It's a Christian variety show featuring interviews, music, and Bible study, all hosted by Jim Baker and featuring Tammy Faye's musical performances.

Jim and Tammy also cut an album of songs and stories. They hawk merchandise to the kids that attend their tapings, and Jim continues to cultivate his talent for raising money. And with the cash rolling in, the Bakers begin to upgrade their lifestyle. A mint coat for Tammy, a new Cadillac for Jim, and a waterfront home in one of Virginia's nicest neighborhoods. By 1972, the Bakers are riding higher than ever. But back at the network,

all of their personal success is beginning to rub people the wrong way. They're not sharing the profits from their merchandise, and the spending for their shows has gotten out of hand. To get the network's finances under control, Pat Robertson hires a man named Jerry Horstman to manage the network's productions and curb its expenses, starting with those of the big stars Jim and Tammy Faye Baker. But when word of this reaches Jim, he's furious. One day in early 1972, Horstman is sitting behind his desk studying balance sheets when Baker marches into his office with a scowl. Jim says he's just heard that he'll no longer be getting some of the benefits he's used to,

and he wants an explanation. Jim says he's just heard that he'll no longer be getting some of the benefits he's used to, and he wants an explanation. Horstman explains that he discovered that between the 700 Club and the Jim and Tammy show, the Bakers are taking up too much of the network's production budget. One of every $5 CBN spends goes to the Jim and Tammy show alone, an unsustainable amount. Horstman then looked at the Bakers's pay and saw that they earned around $300 a week plus a housing allowance of $200 a month. Baker says that he doesn't see a problem, especially with the ratings he gets for CBN. And Horseman shrugs and says actually he agrees with that. He isn't troubled by the Baker's salary. What troubles him are the perks. Horseman counts

them off in his fingers. CBN pays for Tammy to get her hair done at a salon every week. CBN pays overtime to one of its secretaries to babysit the Baker's two-year-old daughter, Tammy Sue, and even their dogs, Tweety and Beefy. CBN paid for the suit they're wearing now with the clothing allowance they enjoy. This, Hortsman explains, is the kind of spending that must be scaled back. Baker is entitled to a decent salary and a reasonable budget for his shows. But all the additional expenses are costing CBN so much that no amount of tearful fundraising is going to be able to pay for it.

Baker's eye twitches. He tells Hortsman that he and Tammy Faye deserve every last thing they get. They're CBN's biggest stars, and in many ways, they're the reason the network even exists. The reason Hortsman has a job. Again, Hortsman shrugs, tells Baker that all that might be true, but Baker is not Hortsman's boss.

Pat Robertson is, and he wants budget cuts. Baker responds by pointing at the speakerphone on Hortsman's desk, telling him to call Robertson right now. Horsman does, and when Robertson answers, Baker quickly recaps the argument and demands that Robertson set Horsman straight. There's a long pause on the other end of the line. Then, like an exhausted father talking to a naughty child, Robertson says it's Baker who must be set straight. Robertson values Baker enormously, but Horstman is right.

The perks are too costly. CBN cannot afford them anymore. Robertson says Baker needs to think about what's good for the network, and not just himself. Baker's eyes narrow and his voice gets tight as he says he understands. When the call's over, Baker turns and walks out of Horstman's office without saying another word. Horstman leans back in his chair and sighs.

He's grateful for Pat Robertson's support, but he knows that this was just one skirmish of many to come. It's clear that Jim Baker isn't the type to back down until he gets exactly what he wants, even if he has to bankrupt the network to get it. He was hip-hop's biggest mogul, the man who redefined fame, fortune, and the music industry. The first male rapper to be honored on the Hollywood Walk of Fame, Sean Diddy Cone. Diddy built an empire and lived a life most people only dream about. Everybody know ain't no party like a Diddy party, so. Yeah, that's what's up. But just as quickly as his empire rose, it came crashing down.

Today I'm announcing the unsealing of a three-count indictment, charging Sean Combs with racketeering conspiracy, sex trafficking, interstate transportation for prostitution. I was f***ed up. I hit rock bottom. But I made no excuses. I'm disgusted. I was f***ed up. I hit rock bottom, but I made no excuses. I'm disgusted. I'm so sorry. Until you're wearing an orange jumpsuit, it's not real. Now it's real. From his meteoric rise to his shocking fall from grace, from law and crime, this is the rise and fall of Diddy. Listen to the rise and fall of Diddy exclusively with Wondery Plus. On January 5th, 2024, an Alaska Airlines door plug tore away mid-flight,

leaving a gaping hole in the side of a plane that carried 171 passengers. This heart-stopping incident was just the latest in a string of crises surrounding the aviation manufacturing giant Boeing. In the past decade, Boeing has been involved in a series of damning scandals and deadly crashes that have chipped away at its once sterling reputation. At the center of it all, the 737 MAX, the latest season of business wars, explores how Boeing, once the gold standard of aviation engineering, descended into a nightmare of safety concerns and public mistrust. The decisions, denials and devastating consequences bringing the Titan to its knees.

And what, if anything, can save the company's reputation? Now, follow Business Wars on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can binge Business Wars, The Unraveling of Boeing, early and ad-free right now on Wondery Plus. In November 1972, Jim Baker decides that he's done answering to Pat Robertson. And after seven years with CBN, he and Tammy Faye leave the network. The couple moves briefly to California, where they launch a new show with a new set of business partners. Praise the Lord is a lot like the 700 Club, mixing preaching with entertainment and fundraising. But soon, Baker has a falling out with his new business partners, and after just nine months, the Bakers cut ties with the California

operation and relocate once again, this time to Charlotte, North Carolina. There they begin broadcasting on a religious channel they'll eventually call the PTL television network. The Bakers' flagship show is called the PTL Club, PTL standing for Praise the Lord, and it rapidly becomes an unprecedented success for Christian TV programming. unprecedented success for Christian TV programming. Launched in 1974, its hip and casual talk show format wins viewers far beyond the Bible Belt. And the show's success is bolstered by the arrival of cable and satellite TV technology, which makes it possible for the Bakers to expand their reach like never before.

With tapings five days a week and a broadcast audience of millions, the PTL Club generates about $350,000 in donations every month. For Jim Baker, the show's success feels like a sign he's on the right path. So in 1975, in conversations with advisors, he lays out a grand vision for building more TV studios and more office space for PTL's growing roster of employees. He says he wants all of it to be housed within a Christian tourist destination called Heritage Village. And in the fall of that same year, PTL's board greenlights $3 million to make Jim's dream a reality. It's a big, ambitious project. And over the next year and a half, it gets even bigger. Jim's vision for Heritage Village expands to include a Christian retirement center, a university, a campground, and a 12-story hotel.

But it's unclear how any of this is going to be paid for, and soon some within the company begin to question Jim's judgment. One of those people is Larry Hall, a PTL board member, and he believes the network is doing the work of God, but he's increasingly concerned that Jim's vision is ballooning out of control, and without intervention, Heritage Village could sink the whole company. So in the summer of 1977, Hall intends to have a frank talk with Baker about finances. Hall finds Jim Baker in his office in an elegant three-story mansion

on the 25-acre property he bought to house Heritage Village. Behind his desk, Baker is thumbing through a leather-bound Bible, copying down passages for a sermon. He barely looks up as Hall pulls up a chair. Thanks for seeing me, Jim. I know you're busy. Oh, very busy as always, Larry, but I wouldn't want it any other way, right? You know, some can't stand the sound of construction, but not wouldn't want it any other way, right? You know, some can't stand the sound of construction, but not me. Just listen. Listen to how hard they're working. God made that possible so that his followers all over the world may gather here

in fellowship. Wouldn't you agree? Well, actually, that's why I wanted to speak with you today. We've been friends for a long time, Jim, and I believe in PTL, but I feel I need to say some things that you might not want to hear. Baker puts aside his Bible and looks up frowning. And what things exactly? We can't keep spending like this. What are you talking about? Our ministry is valued at nearly four million dollars. That is a lot of money, yes, but it's not enough to fund your plans for Heritage Village and keep the network running. Larry, I'm shocked you'd say such a thing. Are you trying to tell me that you doubt God will provide? Baker reaches for the Bible again.

Let's review what the Lord has to say about your attitude, shall we? Matthew 8, 26. Why are ye fearful, O ye of little faith? Jim, I'm fearful that your understanding of the Bible differs from mine. Oh, how so? Scripture makes it clear that Christian leaders should

work to feed the hungry, clothe the naked, and propagate the Word of God. I don't see any of that here. You should be directing the ministry's money toward winning souls for the kingdom of heaven. God has given you the gift of success in television. Use that to broaden PTL's broadcast outreach even further. That's what God tells us to do. And that's what the world needs. It doesn't need another amusement park. Baker leans back in his chair and steeples his fingers. Paul watches as his face reddens. It's clear to me, Larry, that you seem to have missed God's will in your life. This is very unfortunate. I'll pray for you. Jim, listen to me, please. very unfortunate. I'll pray for you. Jim, listen to me, please. You're building your dream. It's not God's dream. I am going to build my vision. You can leave now. Paul quietly stands and heads

toward the office door with pain rising in his chest. He did his best, but he couldn't get through to Baker and convince him to turn away from this course, one that could lead PTL to financial ruin. Over the next several months, Larry Hall continues to oppose the construction of Heritage Village. But in the end, Jim Baker's vision wins. Hall loses his seat on the board, and Baker forges ahead with his plans. Construction continues on the combination studio, campground, hotel, theme park, and university, now renamed Heritage USA, at a cost of $100 million.

The spending impacts PTL so much that the company can no longer afford to pay its staff. Layoffs follow, but not before PTL's board votes to increase Baker's salary. And Baker is savvy enough to know that the timing of his raise might rub many in the public the wrong way. So he recommends that the board no longer release financial information to the press, and the board complies. But soon, even bigger issues arise.

In 1977, PTL had begun raising money to expand its missionary work internationally. The plan was to establish TV studios in Latin America and South Korea to save souls abroad. But with PTL spending nearly all its money on Heritage USA, the overseas missions go unfunded. Certain that the company is headed for disaster, several of Baker's top executives resign, including PTL's administrative vice president, Bill Perkins. And then, just three months later, in March of 1979, disaster arrives. The Federal Communications Commission, which regulates all television stations, announces that it will open an investigation to determine if PTL has violated federal law. FCC regulators believe PTL may be

guilty of improperly diverting more than $300,000 raised for its overseas TV studios to pay other bills. And if the FCC decides PTL did violate the law, they could be subject to heavy fines or even lose their broadcast license. Hearings are scheduled to begin in June of 1979, and initially Baker isn't terribly concerned. But that feeling changes when he hears that Bill Perkins has agreed to testify. Not only does Perkins know the inner workings of PTL, but since leaving the company, he's been outspoken in his criticism of Baker. So just days before Perkins is scheduled to testify, Baker decides he needs to speak to him. Perkins is sitting at home when the phone rings.

And when he answers it, the voice on the other end of the line launches into a quote from scripture. If thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone. Perkins sighs. He recognizes the voice. It's Jim Baker. And quoting this particular Bible verse is Baker's way of saying

that if Perkins had problems with Baker, he should have taken them up directly instead of going to the media. So Perkins replies that he has nothing against Baker as a brother in Christ, that he's not trying to bring down Baker's ministry. He's just trying to tell the truth. And as a Christian, he refuses to do anything else. Even though he's not with PTL anymore, he still wants to see it get back on track. And that can only happen if the ministry and Baker face the facts and correct their financial missteps. The problems with PTL aren't personal. They're based on data, backed up by documents in

Perkins' possession. And when Baker gets agitated, accusing Perkins of trying to play God, threatening to tell the FCC that Perkins stole those documents, Perkins replies that he's not afraid of anything Baker might say about him. He knows the truth is on his side. For a moment, Baker goes silent, and Perkins thinks this conversation might be over. But then, with his voice rising, like he's delivering a sermon, Baker fears that if the FCC wins, the PTL club might get dropped from TV stations across the country. And if that happens, Perkins himself will be personally responsible for all the souls that will go to hell because PTL couldn't bring them to God. For a moment, Perkins is too stunned to speak.

Finally, he says that he refuses to accept that responsibility. If the PTL club gets pulled off the air, it will be Jim Baker's fault and no one else's. Perkins and others tried to warn him months ago that something like this might happen, but Baker wouldn't listen. And now the chickens have come home to roost. Perkins hangs up the phone, angry and disappointed. To him, it's clear that Jim Baker has no ability to see what's truly happening at PTL, and the role Baker has played in it all.

Perkins is certain that Jim Baker will only continue to spend more money than he has, promise more than he can deliver, and say whatever he has to to avoid the consequences that are coming. I'm Jake Warren, and in our first season of Finding, I set out on a very personal quest to find the woman who saved my mum's life. You can listen to Finding Natasha right now exclusively on Wondery Plus. In season two, I found myself caught up in a new journey to help someone I've never even met. But a couple of years ago, I came across a social media post by a person named Loti. It read in part, Three years ago today that I attempted

to jump off this bridge but this wasn't my time to go. A gentleman named Andy saved my life. I still haven't found him. This is a story that I came across purely by chance but it instantly moved me and it's taken me to a place where I've had to consider some deeper issues around mental health. place where I've had to consider some deeper issues around mental health. This is season two of Finding, and this time, if all goes to plan, we'll be finding Andy. You can listen to Finding Andy and Finding Natasha exclusively and ad-free on Wondery+. Join Wondery in the Wondery app, Apple Podcasts, or Spotify. On November 14th, 1979, Jim Baker appears before an FCC commission for his first day of testimony. The FCC has accused PTL of misappropriating donated missionary funds to pay for its operating costs in the U.S., a violation of federal law. If found guilty, PTL could lose its broadcast license.

But when Baker sits down before the FCC commission, he proves to be a skillful and persuasive witness. He declares that he has nothing to hide and characterizes PTL as an honest, small business grappling with unprecedented success. For Larry Bernstein, the lead attorney for the FCC, questioning Baker is a frustrating experience. The televangelist is exceptionally good at avoiding straightforward explanations. So as they head into the second day of questioning, Bernstein intends to press him more directly. And as Bernstein smooths his tie, he sizes up Baker, who sits blinking as if the overhead fluorescent lights are too bright. Looking at Baker, Bernstein is reminded

of a schoolboy on picture day. It's almost like Baker is deliberately trying to appear childlike and naive. But the fact is, Baker is a 39-year-old man running a multi-million dollar corporation that's been violating federal law. So as the day's proceedings begin, Bernstein asks Baker to describe his leadership style, but he quickly cuts Baker off, asking him to adjust the microphone so the commission can

hear him better. Is that better? Is that, you can hear me? I was talking about faith, Mr. Bernstein. Okay, but can we keep the focus on your management style with regards to business, not your religious beliefs? But there's no separating my business and my beliefs. See, I don't think you totally understand faith, Mr. Bernstein. You can't measure faith in dollars and cents. I'm no businessman. I'm a minister. Faith is what motivates us, not fact. I respect your faith, Reverend Baker, but I'm not sure that your beliefs give you license to raise money, then break promises you made on air about how that money will be spent.

You told your audience you were setting up a branch of PTL in South Korea, did you not? Yes, I did. Dr. Reverend Paul Young-Gee Cho in Seoul was going to be in charge of our ministry there. Okay, and you also told your audience that you had used their donations to construct a TV studio that was nearly complete, when in fact you had not done so. To this day, there is no functioning PTL television studio in Seoul. Is that correct, Reverend Baker? Well, and did you not receive a letter from Dr. Cho's office in which he implored you to send the promised funds so he could complete the studio? Okay, but in that same letter, Cho expressed frustration because you had been so slow to send money, money that you told him months

earlier you had already raised. Are you familiar with the letter I'm referring to? Yes. Well, we would like an explanation, sir. You raised the money from your donors for Korea, but then you did not send that money to Korea. Why? Baker leans over and whispers something to his lawyer, then shifts back to his microphone. He starts to speak, then hesitates, looking distraught. Mr. Bernstein, I'd like to answer your question honestly, but the scriptures are very clear. We are not to call our brother a liar before God. So in my own religious conscience, I can't answer. I'm not asking you to call anyone a liar, Mr. Baker. Just tell me why you did not use the money you raised

for its stated purpose. Because the Korean studio was already built. Dr. Cho had built it himself. Then yes, he wrote me some letter saying he'd need more funds or he'd have to tear the studio down, but the fact is, he didn't really need the money, in my opinion, because the studio was already there. I don't know what else to say. Now I have betrayed a brother. Bernstein raises his eyebrows as he tries to parse Baker's response. Then before he can ask his next question, Baker suddenly gasps, bows his head, and sobs.

Bernstein gives Baker some time to regain his composure, but Baker continues to weep. Finally, Bernstein turns to the judge, who just shakes his head and says, the hearing is adjourned for the day. Baker sits at the table, wailing, as his lawyer pats him on the shoulder. pats him on the shoulder. While Jim Baker is consumed by battles with the FCC, Tammy Faye finds herself growing apart from her husband. After 19 years of marriage, she's beginning to feel ignored and unhappy. So she turns to Gary Paxton for solace. He's a handsome singer, songwriter, and music producer, and a born-again Christian. The two started spending hours together recording music, sometimes all night.

And unlike Baker in recent years, Paxton encourages Tammy, and seems to want to help her realize her ambitions as a recording artist. And soon, she begins to fall for him. Then one day, Tammy confesses to a friend that she thinks she's in love with Paxton. She even admits to letting him kiss her, though she insists that it hasn't gone farther than that. That friend tells Jim Baker, and he confronts Tammy, demanding that they go to Christian couples counseling. Tammy agrees, but only because it's her duty as a good Christian wife. She knows she should fight for her marriage, but she's tired of fighting.

For years, she's begged Jim to pay more attention to their family. They have two kids, and Jim barely seems to notice them. And even when he does, he's often more critical than not. Now, Tammy's just sick of it all. And while she put up with therapy for as long as she has to, eventually she hopes she'll work up the courage to tell Jim what she really wants, a divorce. So in the spring of 1980, Tammy follows Jim into the office of Christian therapist Fred Gross. The room is all white, including the sofa. Jim and Tammy sit across from Gross and two other counselors, who sit still, waiting for someone to speak first. But words aren't coming to Tammy. At least nothing she feels she can actually say out loud. But Jim finds talking easy.

He begins by saying he doesn't understand what he's doing wrong, as far as he knows he's been the perfect husband. And therapist Fred Gross asks Tammy to respond. Has Jim not been the perfect husband? Tammy says that's not how she's felt. He certainly wasn't so perfect when she hosted the PTL club by herself. Tammy had stepped in to help out while Jim was busy with the FCC hearings. And when he returned, he called her a bad host, said she wasn't good on camera, and worst of all, he said it on live TV. And when Jim frowns, saying he

doesn't remember that, Tammy scoffs and says she'll show him the tapes. But he cuts her off, saying if he has any issue with Tammy's TV performance, it's that she wears too much makeup on air. It's just not appropriate for a minister's wife. But the makeup makes Tammy feel beautiful, something that Jim hasn't done in years. Jim raises his voice, asking if that's the reason she had an affair with Gary Paxson. Tammy shouts back that she and Paxson are just friends.

She never slept with him. There was no affair. She resisted temptation. And if Jim had spent more time with her instead of his Heritage USA blueprints, she would never have gotten so close to Paxson to begin with. Gross interjects before Jim can respond, saying that both are at fault and both need to change. Jim must make more time for Tammy in his life.

He earns plenty of money and is a good provider, but Tammy doesn't need another car or fur coat. She needs her husband. Gross then tells Tammy that she needs to repent. He believes her when she says she did not sleep with Paxson, but that doesn't change the fact that she committed the sin of adultery in her heart. And though these changes won't happen overnight, Gross knows that deep down, the Bakers still love each other. He asks them to think about the first date they shared in college. They can rekindle that love if they're willing to try. Jim turns to Tammy and nods. And for the first time

in what feels like years, Tammy sees his kindness once again. The adoration he showed so many years ago. It's a comforting sight. And Tammy allows herself a slight smile. If Jim can really change, then maybe there is hope for their marriage after all. She takes Jim's hand and squeezes. And in this moment, she does feel like she did back in the early days of The Jim and Tammy Show. She and her husband, a team again. Maybe this could be the start of a new chapter in their relationship. One that can withstand any challenge that might threaten to tear them apart. From Wondery, this is Episode 1 of Jim and Tammy Faye Baker from American Scandal.

In our next episode, Jim Baker defends himself from a horrifying allegation made by a former employee. And as a reporter starts digging into the story, Baker's attempts to cover it up puts everything he's built at PTL in jeopardy. built at PTL in Jeopardy. If you're enjoying American Scandal, you can unlock exclusive seasons on Wondery+. Binge new seasons first and listen completely ad-free when you join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app, Apple Podcasts, or Spotify. And before you go, tell us about yourself

by filling out a survey at wondery.com slash survey. details. And while in most cases we can't know exactly what was said, all our dramatizations are based on historical research. American Scandal is hosted, edited, and executive produced by me, Lindsey Graham for Airship. Audio editing by Christian Paraga. Sound design by Gabriel Kuhl. Music by Lindsey Graham. This episode is written by Hannibal Diaz. Edited by Emma Cortland. Fact-checking by Alyssa Jung Perry. Produced by John Reed. Managing Producer, Olivia Fonte. Senior Managing Producer, Ryan Moore. Senior Producer, Andy Herman. Development by Stephanie Jens. Executive Producers are Jenny Lauer-Beckman, Marsha Louis, and Erin O'Flaherty for Wondery.