American Scandal - Ruby Ridge Standoff | Deadly Force | 3
Episode Date: July 22, 2025In the fallout of the initial gun battle, the government sends dozens of highly-armed agents to Ruby Ridge. But as they work under a fog of bad information, FBI leadership takes the extraordi...nary step of altering their rules of engagement, leading to more bloodshed.Be the first to know about Wondery’s newest podcasts, curated recommendations, and more! Sign up now at https://wondery.fm/wonderynewsletterListen to American Scandal on the Wondery App or wherever you get your podcasts. Experience all episodes ad-free and be the first to binge the newest season. Unlock exclusive early access by joining Wondery+ in the Wondery App, Apple Podcasts or Spotify. Start your free trial today by visiting wondery.com/links/american-scandal/ now.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.
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It's the late afternoon of August 21, 1992, at FBI headquarters in Washington, D.C. Larry Potts is in his office, rifling through printouts on his desk.
Potts is the Bureau's Assistant Director in charge of criminal investigations, and
he's trying to get his head around an ongoing emergency brewing in the mountains of northern Idaho. Only a few hours
ago, a group of US Marshals were running a surveillance mission on the property of fugitive
Randy Weaver. But as the Marshals headed back to their base camp, they came face to face
with Weaver, his son Samuel, and a family friend, Kevin Harris. A firefight ensued,
leaving one Marshal dead, and at least one member
of the Weaver clan was hit too, but it hasn't been confirmed who it was or whether they're still alive.
Weaver wasn't even on Potts radar until this morning, and he's struggling to put the pieces
together. But it's been decided that the Bureau's hostage rescue team will deploy immediately.
This is an elite group with special training and some of the best snipers in law enforcement.
But before the team heads to Idaho, Potts wants to discuss the mission with a
hostage rescue team leader. So when Richard Rogers, head of HRT, arrives at
the office, Potts brings him right in.
Rogers, great. I know you've been briefed on the situation in Idaho. Take a seat.
What's your read on it? Well, frankly sir, this might've been briefed on the situation in Idaho. Take a seat.
What's your read on it?
Well, frankly, sir, this might be the most dangerous situation the HRT's ever faced.
We've got an ex-military suspect with special forces training and an ax to grind with the
government.
He's holed up with two other adults, both reportedly armed, and four kids, one of them
just a baby.
It's a mess.
Potts flips through the report.
It says here even the kids
might be armed. Yeah, the boy Samuel, he was with his father and this Kevin Harris guy when they
chased down the marshals. It was a totally unprovoked attack. The marshals were leaving
the property and it's not over yet. Apparently the family is still out there shooting. Two marshals
are pinned down in the woods and they're trying to get a local SWAT team there to walk them down
the hill. How does a 14-year-old boy end up shooting at federal agents with a semi-automatic?
Well, this seems to have been a long time coming.
The marshals have been trying to negotiate with Weaver for over a year and a half, I
hear, but he won't budge.
Won't even talk to his own lawyer.
And who are they?
I've heard they're some sort of religious extremists?
Yeah, and maybe more than that.
Weaver was close with Aryan nations. Their headquarters is just down the road from Ruby Ridge. That whole
part of Idaho is crawling with those militia types. So the longer this drags out, the more
likely some of them might show up looking to escalate.
Alright, so we've got a hostile compound. Kids with guns. Extremists in the area. Which
I guess brings me to the big one. Are you equipped to end this? I know there's been
some talk about changing the normal rules of engagement. Well, we're locked
and loaded, sir. But yeah, given what's already happened, there's a strong argument that the
current rules of engagement tie our hands a bit. I mean, one of our guys is dead. Shots
have been fired from the ridge. That could justify treating any armed adult as an imminent
threat whether they're actively pointing a weapon or not.
I see.
And you'd like the rules of engagement updated to reflect that, I guess?
It would make sense to me.
I want you to take lead on this.
Draft some new language and I'll run it past legal while you're on the flight.
Only a few hours ago, Larry Potts had never even heard of Ruby Ridge.
But now he's sending his men out to confront a heavily armed family who've already shown
no qualms about killing federal agents.
So he hopes the altered rules of engagement will help keep his men safe and bring the
standoff to a rapid conclusion.
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By the time the FBI hostage rescue team was in the air in August 1992, there had already
been two fatalities at Ruby Ridge. US Marshal Bill Deegan and 14-year-old Samuel Weaver
had been killed in a firefight in the woods. But both sides thought they were the ones
who had been attacked, and both sides thought they were still in imminent danger. This confusion
was typical of the entire
situation. The standoff had been sparked by Randy Weaver's failure to appear at trial on gun charges,
but Weaver had refused to give himself up, mainly because of mistakes made by the government.
First, he was wrongly told he stood to lose his property if he was convicted. Then he was given
the incorrect court date. He quickly became convinced that
the federal authorities were setting him up and refused to cooperate any further.
But it wasn't just Weaver who was acting on bad information. Contrary to what the FBI
believed, the Weavers had not chased the Marshals through the trees and gunned them down. Instead,
they had just been following their dog. And they hadn't continued firing at the Marshals
after the initial shootout either. The shots that echoed across the hills had been fired harmlessly into
the air by Randy Weaver as he grieved his dead son. But the fog of confusion and mutual fear that
hung over the mountain would only deepen in the hours to come. Now more armed men were heading
to Ruby Ridge and the situation was about to get much worse.
This is episode 3, Deadly Force.
It's 9 AM on August 22, 1992, just under 24 hours since the shootout on Ruby Ridge.
Lon Horiuchi strides into a National Guard building in Bonners Ferry, Idaho, a small
town about 20 miles from the
Weaver's property. Horiuchi is a sniper with the FBI's elite hostage rescue team, and he's here
for a briefing on their mission before heading into the field. At just under 40 years old, Horiuchi
has been with the HRT for about a decade, but he's never seen this type of manpower assembled for a
single mission before. All 50 of his fellow HRT agents are here.
Like Horiuchi, they are all fitted out for battle in green fatigues, Kevlar vests, and helmets.
Horiuchi takes a seat as the room falls silent and HRT lead Richard Rogers begins the briefing.
He tells them that they're headed into an active firefight. One Marshal has already been killed and
a SWAT team has been dispatched to rescue the
two surviving marshals.
Nearby homes have been evacuated but news of the shooting has spread quickly.
Friends of the Weavers have begun to arrive at the scene along with a growing number of
radical right-wing anti-government protesters.
The crowd is currently being held at a roadblock on a bridge leading to the area, but dozens
of state and federal agents are also standing guard in the woods surrounding the Weaver
compound.
They are ready to deter any protesters who try to sneak around the roadblock and join
the fight.
Hearing all this, Horiuchi is starting to understand why all 50 HRT agents have been
called in.
Rogers tells the room that he has no intention of allowing the situation to escalate. They don't want this turning into a long, drawn-out siege.
They're going in, hard and fast, to end it.
As such, the rules of engagement for this mission have been amended.
Horiyuchi leans forward, to listen closely.
He knows the FBI's standard rules of engagement by heart.
A framed printout of those rules hangs in his office.
They're the backbone of every mission, and he can't recall any previous operation where they've been changed.
The new rules are printed out on a sheet that Rogers holds in his hand. He reads,
if any adult in the compound is observed with weapons after the surrender announcement is made,
deadly force can and should be used to neutralize this individual. The phrase can and should catches Horiuchi's ear.
That sounds like he's not just allowed to fire on armed adults,
but is actually being encouraged to do so.
Then Rogers continues.
If any adult male is observed with a weapon prior to the announcement,
deadly force can and should be employed
if a shot can be taken without endangering the children.
As for the children, Rogers goes on, any subjects other than Randy or Kevin Harris,
presenting threat of death or grievous bodily harm, standard FBI rules of deadly force apply.
Horiuchi understands that this means that even the children can be fired upon,
but only if someone's life is in danger. And now that the new rules of engagement have been
presented,
the briefing wraps up. Horiyuchi gathers his gear, ready to catch his ride to Ruby Ridge.
He's headed into what sounds like a war zone, but his orders are clear.
If he sees an adult with a gun, it's his job to neutralize him.
At around 5 PM, Lon Horiyuchi joins a team of his fellow snipers as they make their way
up the hill toward the Weaver's property on Ruby Ridge.
They take up positions in the dense forest a few hundred yards from the cabin.
Their primary objective is to observe the Weaver family and report what they see back
to base camp, but they all keep in mind that they've been given the green light to shoot
any armed male adult they see on the property.
Then, just before 6pm, Horiyuchi is lying on his belly in the underbrush when he hears an FBI armored personnel carrier on the move further down the hill.
It's going to be bringing more agents to the scene, but one of the Weaver's dogs immediately begins barking in response to the engine noise.
Moments later, Horiyuchi sees 16-year-old Sarah
Weaver emerge from the cabin to look around. She's unarmed, but is soon joined by Randy Weaver and
Kevin Harris, though Horiyuchi cannot tell which is which. But they're both carrying guns, which
means that according to the revised rules of engagement, Horiyuchi believes he's free to open
fire. Horiyuchi has a clear shot,
but he holds off, waiting to see what they're up to. But then from behind him, Horiyuchi hears a
helicopter approaching. Those in the compound hear it too. Randy Weaver sprints toward one of the
sheds and grabs onto the low slung roof to swing himself behind it. Horiyuchi thinks he's taking
a defensive position and preparing to fire on the helicopter.
He considers calling out an order to surrender, but he doesn't think anyone in the compound would
be able to hear him from this distance. So, fearing for the safety of the people in the helicopter,
Horiyuchi fires a shot. He aims for Weaver's spine, but at the last moment Weaver moves.
The bullet catches his hand before burying itself in the splintering plywood of the shed.
The bullet catches his hand before burying itself in the splintering plywood of the shed. Grimacing with pain, Weaver screams to the others to get inside.
They all sprint back toward the cabin, but Horiyuchi doesn't want to let the men get
inside.
He's afraid they'll return fire while using their children as human shields.
So he follows them with his scope, waiting for the right moment.
When the trio reaches the cabin's front door, there's a bottleneck as they all try to squeeze
through.
Sarah and Randy get inside first, but before Kevin Harris can follow, Horiyuchi takes his
shot.
He sees his target flinch as he dives into the darkness of the cabin out of sight.
Horiyuchi has no idea who he's hit or if anyone's been killed, and he's not thought about the
possibility that Vicky Weaver might be standing behind the door with her 10-month-old baby in her hands.
Inside the cabin, it's chaos. 16-year-old Sarah lies on the cabin floor, a few feet inside the
doorway gasping for breath. Her father, Randy, and Kevin cry out in pain. Kevin is bleeding badly
from a gunshot wound to the shoulder. Randy's injured too,
cradling his limp and bloodied hand by his stomach. Then Sarah spots her mother. Vicki Weaver is
slumped over on her knees in the doorway, still holding baby Alisha in her arms. But she isn't
moving. In an instant, Sarah realizes her mother is dead. Her 10-year-old sister Rachel screams, then the baby, trapped in
her dead mother's arms, begins to wail in fright. Sarah realizes she has to try and remain calm.
Her mother is gone, the men are hurt, and the family is under attack. She tries to think what
her mother would do in this situation, and the first thing Vicki would do is tell everyone to
be quiet. The feds can use the family's cries against them,
helping the snipers locate them for other shots that are sure to come.
So Sarah yells out, telling them not to make a sound. But as the men go quiet, she realizes
they have even bigger problems. The door is still open, so she crawls over to her father and tells
him they need to drag Vicki inside and get the door closed.
Randy pulls Alisha from Vicky's arms. Sarah can see that the little girl is covered in blood.
Frantically, she and Randy check all over the baby's body, but they're relieved to see that she has not been hit.
So they hand the baby off to Rachel and begin slowly dragging Vicky's lifeless body into the cabin.
When her mother is finally clear of the door, Sarah slams it shut. Sarah then gathers the two younger children to her and pulls them flat on the floor.
She shields them with her body and then covers her mouth to muffle the sound of her own crying.
Sarah realizes that everything her mother prophesied is coming true.
The end times have come for the Weaver family.
This is their own personal
Armageddon. First Samuel, now Vicki. One by one, the Feds are taking them out, and without
her mother to guide and protect them, Sarah decides that she will have to be the one to
hold the family together. So she begins to pray, asking for the strength needed in this
moment.
Inside the base camp at the bottom of the hill, FBI hostage negotiator Fred Lansley
is stunned by what's happened.
He's only been on site for a few hours, but a sniper has already fired at the Weavers
before he's even had a chance to begin negotiations.
No one on the government side seems to know who's been hit or what condition they're
in.
Lansley is certain of one thing, though.
He needs to get up to the cabin before things spiral further out of control.
So at around 6pm, only minutes after the sniper fire began, Lansley piles into a tank-like
armored personnel carrier along with hostage rescue team leader Richard Rogers and a handful
of other agents.
They begin driving up the hill.
It's a long, tense journey, with multiple stops to check for booby traps along the way. But after 45 minutes, they finally reach their destination and stop about 20 feet in front of the cabin.
Lansley turns to Rogers to discuss their next steps.
Okay, here's what we gotta do.
I've got a phone here for Randy to talk to us.
I'd like to get that to him as soon as possible establish a line of communication
Now first we need to announce ourselves and make this render order that should have been done before the first shot
But we're past that now still let's move forward by the book. All right copy that
Lansley pulls a radio handset off the wall of the personnel carrier
The handset is wired into a bullhorn on top of the vehicle. Mr. Weaver, this is Fred Lansley of the FBI. You should understand that we have
warrants for the arrest of yourself and Mr. Harris. This is an order to surrender.
Lansley waits a long beat for a response, but he's met only with silence from the cabin,
so he continues on. Randy, we don't want anyone else to get hurt. I just want to talk to you about how we can get you and your family out of the cabin peacefully.
Lansley waits and listens, but again there's no sound from the cabin.
He turns back to Rogers.
Maybe he's responding but we can't hear him through the walls.
I think getting that phone inside is our best shot.
Okay, but let's do it quick.
The sun's going to be down in less than an hour.
I'm worried they're just stalling so they can ambush us in the dark.
Lansley nods and pulls the phone out from beneath his seat. Then he carefully opens
the hatch of the roof of the vehicle, slides the phone outside and lowers it softly to
the ground by its wire. The wire is more than a mile long, long enough to reach all the
way back to base camp. Lansley then closes the hatch and gets back on the bullhorn.
Randy, I've left a phone just outside.
Please come out unarmed and bring it in so we can talk.
I give you my word, no one will harm me.
Lansley feels rotters tap him on the shoulder.
A psych profile says Vicky is the one
calling the shots in there.
Maybe try her.
Okay, good call.
Vicky, we know you're in there too.
Please pick up the phone. I'm on the other end. I just want to help you and your children get out
of this safely. You or one of the kids can come out and take it. No one will be harmed.
I'd really like to talk to you. Vicki, are you there?
After several minutes with no answer, the decision is made to head back down the mountain.
The armored vehicle begins slowly backing down the hill, unspooling the phone wire behind
it.
Lansley hopes they use it.
Because as he rides along, he thinks about what Rogers said.
Maybe the government has approached this case all wrong from the start.
They spent all this time trying to reason with Randy when maybe really it's Vicki calling the shots. Lansley makes a mental note. Inspired by the hit, wonder podcast against podcast Against the Odds, comes the gripping guidebook,
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negotiator Fred Lansley left a phone outside the Weavers' cabin.
The FBI has rung the phone every 15 minutes, but no one has yet come out to retrieve it.
So without any communication from the Weavers, the government agents don't know who has been
shot. They're unaware that Vicki Weaver and her teenage son Samuel are dead, and they don't know
that Kevin Harris is gravely wounded. Desperate to gather any information, the FBI sends a modified
bomb disposal robot rolling up the hill. It's loaded with surveillance and communication devices, including a camera, microphone, and speaker. And when
the robot arrives outside the cabin, Lansley uses its loudspeaker to address
both Randy and Vicki, but he again gets no response. The FBI still hopes to
negotiate an end to the standoff, but with every hour that passes, a peaceful
resolution seems less likely. Now the time is approaching when agents must begin preparing to storm the cabin.
Any such operation would be conducted by the elite hostage rescue team.
And ahead of a possible assault on the Weaver compound, the HRT leader, Richard Rogers,
decides to remove some of the smaller structures on the ridge. He hopes to create better lines
of sight for his snipers and ensure that the assault team can move freely in the area surrounding the
cabin.
So just after sunset, Rogers sends another armored personnel carrier up the hill to begin
pushing the structures out of the way. But when the vehicle reaches the largest shed,
he instructs them to pause. It occurs to Rogers that the structure might be booby-trapped
or there may be someone hiding inside waiting to ambush them.
So he instructs a pair of assault team agents to head in and take a look first.
The agents crawl along the dark forest floor dressed head to toe in camouflage with automatic
rifles strapped to their backs.
When they reach the clearing surrounding the Weaver cabin, the lead agent pauses to look through his night vision goggles.
Alright, it looks clear. Let's move. Getting to their feet, they draw their weapons and
sprint for the shed. The lead agent flattens himself against the rough wood
siding. He scans the cabin but sees no movement. Alright, on my count of three,
we'll converge on the entrance. I'll take the door, you breach. I'm ready. Okay, three, two,
one, go! The lead agent reaches the door and swings it open, and as his partner moves inside with his
rifle raised, the lead agent puts a hand on his shoulder and follows closely behind. Inside the
doorway, he clicks on a flashlight mounted to the top of his gun. He scans the room and there's not
much inside. A bed covered in a white sheet.
A cheap nightstand with a potted plant and piled clothes tossed in the corner.
Okay, looks empty to me. What's that over there?
The agent flicks his flashlight across the bed. There's a lump under the sheet.
Alright, I'm going to pull off that sheet. Cover me. Nice and slow, nice and slow. Could be wired.
The lead agent trains his gun on the bed while he watches his partner pull away the sheet.
Ah, Jesus.
The body of Samuel Weaver lies naked on the bed.
Is that one of the kids?
Yeah, must be the son.
We gotta call this in. We can't leave him here.
You think it was Horiyuchi that got him?
Unlikely. He was clear he hit an atom.
Well, this kid didn't shoot himself in the back.
Maybe it was one of the marshals. Didn't they say they shot someone? Yeah, maybe. Or maybe it wasn't
one of us at all. What do you mean? I mean, you saw the psych profile. Parents like this,
they think surrender means losing their kids? No way. No, no. You're saying they did this?
I'm saying I don't know. But in a situation like this, people stop thinking straight.
As the agent reports the discovery to Basecamp, he begins to think of the other children still
inside the Weaver cabin.
Sarah, Rachel, and the baby haven't been seen or heard from in two days.
With Randy and Vicki still refusing to communicate with negotiators, there's no way to know
if the kids are alive or dead.
And the longer that remains the case, the more worried the FBI will become.
Shortly after discovering Samuel Weaver, the FBI agents carry his body out of the shed
and bring it down the hill. The government determines that Samuel was killed during the
initial gunfight between the Weavers and the Marshals. But without an autopsy or ballistics
analysis, they can draw no firm conclusions about who fired the fatal shot. Shortly afterward, FBI negotiator
Fred Lansley speaks to the family through the loudspeaker on the robot. Expressing his
condolences, he asks the Weavers for guidance on what to do with the body in accordance with
their religious beliefs. But once again he gets no response. By the next morning,
it's been three days since Samuel was killed and two days since Vicki was struck down by an FBI
sniper. Inside the cabin, it's pure misery. 16-year-old Sarah is struggling to keep the
family together and hold on to her own sanity. She sits on the couch, trying to nurse her crying
baby sister from a bottle. It's been hard enough to settle Alisha without her mother, but overnight the FBI set up floodlights
around the cabin and the phone left out on the lawn has been ringing every 15 minutes
for the past day and a half.
No one has been able to get any sleep.
Feels like the family is being tortured.
As Sarah looks around the room, she takes stock of what's happened.
Her little brother has been killed by the feds, and now they've stolen his body.
Meanwhile, her dead mother Vicki is underneath the kitchen table covered by a blanket, her
dried blood smeared all across the floor.
Sarah looks to the other end of the couch.
Her father Randy was hit in the hand by a government sniper, but he's still strong enough
to clean the barrel of a pistol.
Sarah is more worried about Kevin Harris. He's slumped into a recliner clean the barrel of a pistol. Sarah is more worried about Kevin
Harris. He's slumped into a recliner in the corner of the room. His skin is growing gray
and he grips his bloodied shoulder. Moaning in pain, in a weak voice, he begs Randy to shoot him
and put him out of his misery. But Randy refuses, saying he couldn't do a thing like that.
But as Kevin's pain gets worse and worse, Sarah feels like she has to do something.
So she hands the baby off to her younger sister Rachel and walks to the kitchen.
Sarah grabs the family's rudimentary first aid kit off the counter and a shaker of cayenne
pepper from the cupboard.
She brings it over to Kevin's recliner and kneels beside him.
Slowly she removes the bloody gauze from his shoulder.
He gasps in pain as she peels it away. The
bullet hole hasn't closed and more blood begins to trickle down his arm. She quickly
dabs a cotton swab with peroxide and applies it to the wound making Kevin shudder with
pain once again. Then Sarah dashes a sprinkle of the cayenne pepper on top to help fight
infection. It's an old trick she learned from her mother. But as Sarah tapes a fresh
piece of gauze over the wound, she hears a loud distorted voice outside. It's an old trick she learned from her mother. But as Sarah tapes a fresh piece of gauze over the wound, she hears a loud distorted
voice outside.
It's that robot again.
The voice on its loudspeaker has been blaring at them for days, but now it's playing a
new trick.
It's talking to Vicki, telling her that the feds are having pancakes for breakfast at
the bottom of the hill.
The voice asks Vicki to let the kids come down and have some. Hearing this,
Randy loses his cool. He yells to Sarah that the feds know perfectly well that Vicky is
dead. They are the ones who killed her. So he gets up off the couch and storms to the
front of the room. Through the closed front door he starts screaming at the robot, calling
the feds cowards and demanding that they stop taunting his family. Sarah is terrified that
her father might do something stupid,
like open the door and go outside to shoot the robot. So she gently puts her hand on her father's
back and tries to reason with him. She explains the feds probably don't know that Vicki is dead.
They can't see inside the cabin or hear what he's screaming through the door. But Randy just keeps
yelling and yelling. Sarah begs him to quiet down and move away from the door explaining that they could use his voice to tell where he's standing and shoot him as well. This
seems to do the trick because Randy stomps back to the couch mumbling to himself about
the feds dirty tricks. Sarah takes back her baby sister from Rachel and rocks her in her
arms. But Alisha won't stop crying. She's desperate for her mother and that's the one
thing Sarah can't do anything about,
so Sarah is at her wit's end.
She knows they can't go on like this much longer.
If they stay inside the cabin,
Kevin will likely die from his gunshot.
It won't be long before they're out of formula for the baby.
But Sarah can't see a way out.
The last time they opened the front door,
the government tried to shoot them all.
So Sarah closes her eyes
and does exactly what her mother would have done in this situation.
She again prays to God for an answer.
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Start your free trial in the Wondery app, Apple Podcasts or Spotify today. On August 25, 1992, the standoff at Ruby Ridge enters its fourth day.
The crowd gathered at the roadblock on the bridge leading into the area has continued
to swell.
Well over a hundred people are there now and it's a volatile mix.
There are dozens of reporters and camera crews from around the country,
but they've been joined by a growing number of far-right anti-government extremists.
And when the protesters learn that the Weaver's young son Samuel has been killed,
the temperature is cranked up even more.
The protesters scream baby killer at the agents standing guard and taunt them over the death of
their fallen colleague, Marshal Billy Deegan.
But it's not the offensive chance that concerned federal agents the most.
They're increasingly worried that the most radical protesters will try to smuggle weapons
and supplies up to the cabin and urge the weavers to keep fighting.
So they have men stationed in the woods and on the roads all around Ruby Ridge keeping
watch.
Lance Hart, an ATF agent, is among those assigned to patrol the protest area.
He's well acquainted with the Weaver case.
He was the man who cuffed Randy during his arrest on the side of the highway 18 months
ago.
And on the afternoon of the 25th, Hart is seated behind the wheel of his cruiser parked
on a shoulder of the road, 100 feet from the roadblock.
Through binoculars, he watches for any protesters who may try to break free from the barrier.
And as he scans the crowd, the dispatcher's voice crackles over the police radio.
An FBI helicopter has spotted a vehicle of interest nearby.
It's a Jeep Cherokee belonging to a group of skinheads from Portland.
They were seen yesterday buying guns at a local shop
and asking about
how to get up to the Weaver's cabin. Now that same Jeep is turning down a back road that leads
to a canyon behind the ridge where the Weaver's compound sits. To Hart, this sounds like exactly
the scenario they've all been dreading. These skinheads are likely going to ditch the Jeep and
head across the canyon on foot, bringing guns up to Randy through a back entrance.
So Hart puts his cruiser into gear and screeches into a U-turn heading in the direction of the Jeep. He mashes the accelerator to the floor as he reaches through the dashboard and flicks on the
lights and siren. When Hart is a mile down the road, the helicopter comes into view ahead.
Following the chopper's path, he pulls a sharp right turn down a dirt road through the
forest. And a moment later, he hears half a dozen other law enforcement vehicles racing up behind
him with their lights on and sirens blaring too. The Jeep comes into view ahead, and as Hart starts
to catch up, he gets on the loudspeaker, demanding that the Jeep pull over. To Hart's surprise,
they comply. When the Jeep comes to a stop, Hart pulls off the road
and parks 50 feet behind. He grabs his rifle off the passenger seat, then slides out of the car
and plants his knee in the dirt, shielding himself behind the open door. Seconds later, Hart's
colleagues pull their vehicles beside his. Now he has backup. Hart yells to the skinheads to come
out of the vehicle one at a time with their hands in the air.
For a moment, there's no movement from inside the Jeep and Hart wonders what they're up to, stealing himself for a shootout.
But then the driver's door opens and a man slowly exits with his hands in the air.
Hart screams for him to get down on the ground.
Then one after the other, four other men climb out of the car and lie down in their
bellies next to the driver.
With guns still drawn, Hart and his fellow agents walk slowly to the Jeep.
When they reach the skinheads, Hart keeps his gun pointed at them while his colleagues
begin to cuff them.
As they make arrests, Hart pops open the Jeep's trunk.
And inside, he finds two dozen rifles, along with several boxes of
ammunition. Underneath the pile of guns, there's a large, rolled up black banner. Hart unravels
it and finds it reads, Whites Must Arm. Hart shakes his head. This was a close call. But
the situation is becoming more dangerous by the hour. Whether it's down at the protest
by the bridge or up at the weaver compound, it only seems a matter of time before there's more bloodshed.
Later that same day, August 25, 1992, a colorful new character shows up at the roadblock. Bo
Grites is a retired Special Forces agent who's said to have served as the inspiration for
the Sylvester Stallone character Rambo. He's also a fringe candidate in the upcoming presidential election,
and he's a hero of the American far right. Grites arrives in northern Idaho with a public offer to
negotiate and enter the standoff. The FBI just rolled their eyes at this grandstanding stunt.
But it's clear that Grites is popular with the crowd at the roadblock.
So to keep everyone happy, they allow Grites to record an audio message encouraging Randy
to surrender. But Grites isn't the only outsider urging the Weavers to give themselves up.
As Ruby Ridge becomes a major national story, legendary radio broadcaster Paul Harvey learns
that Randy Weaver is a devoted fan. So Harvey goes live on the air to speak
directly to Weaver through the radio inside the cabin. Harvey expresses sympathy for Weaver's
anti-government views, but encourages him to surrender. Weaver hears the broadcast,
but is apparently unpersuaded because he makes no attempt to pick up the phone and begin negotiations.
And as the clock ticks on, FBI negotiator Fred Lansley knows an assault on the
cabin is likely just around the corner. But then, the following day, on the afternoon of August 26,
there's a breakthrough. Weaver begins yelling from inside the cabin again. This time, desperate to
hear what Weaver is saying, Lansley guides the robot closer to the cabin, stopping it just a few feet away from the door.
From this range, Lansley can finally make out a few words.
Weaver is asking for his sister, Marnus, to be brought to the site.
It's not clear why, but this is the first direct communication between the FBI and the
Weavers.
So, hoping to build on this, the FBI scrambles to locate Marnus in Iowa and get her on a
plane to Ruby Ridge.
The next morning, August 27th, Randy is with his family in the cabin when he hears the FBI's armored personnel carrier roll into the yard outside again. He's not surprised because this
has been a daily routine for nearly a week now. Through the walls of the cabin he hears an FBI man called
Fred speak up over the loudspeaker. But this time, Fred actually has something interesting
to say.
Randy, I heard your request yesterday. As a gesture of goodwill, I found your sister
Marnus and I flew her out last night. She's right here beside me and she'd like to speak
with you.
Randy stiffens and rushes to the door, shouting out,
Marnus?
That really you?
Say something!
A moment later, Marnus' muffled voice comes over the loudspeaker.
Weaver kids are so excited they start shouting for her too.
Oh, quiet hush, all of you, please.
I can't hear her.
Marnus!
Vicki's dead!
You hear me?
They shot her!
I've been yelling for days but no one's listening!
Trying to pin it on me! Don't believe a word they say!
Did you hear me?
A few moments later, Fred's voice comes back on the loudspeaker.
Well, Marcus is a little hard of hearing, so we're going to bring the NPC in closer so she can hear you better.
Don't you dare! I'm not falling for that trick! You stay right where you are!
Randy, you asked me to bring your sister here. She came all this way from Iowa.
Just let her come a little closer so she can hear your voice.
I said back off!
Alright, alright. We'll stay here, but uh, let's try something else.
I have some messages, recordings I'd like to play for you.
They're from Vicky's parents and her brother and sister.
I've also gotten one here from Bo Rice. I don't know if you've heard of him.
Randy's eyes grow wide.
Of course he's heard of Grites.
Randy even has a poster of him in the cabin.
Bo... Bo knows who I am?
Is he here?
Um, yeah, yeah, he's here.
Then I'm done talking to you, you hear me?
From now on, I only talk to Bo Grites.
This is the best news Randy Weaver has gotten in months.
If there's one person he's sure he can trust to tell the truth and be an honest broker,
it's Bo Grites.
For the first time, Weaver feels a sliver of hope.
Because maybe now there's a chance that he and his kids will make it out of this cabin alive.
and his kids will make it out of this cabin alive. From Wondery, this is episode three of The Standoff at Ruby Ridge from American Scandal.
In our next episode, Bo Grites attempts to negotiate a peaceful end to the standoff before
congressional hearings and criminal trials try to establish exactly what happened at
Ruby Ridge and who was to blame. Wondery app, Apple Podcasts, or Spotify. And before you go, tell us about yourself by filling out a survey at Wondery.com slash survey.
If you'd like to learn more about the events at Ruby Ridge, we recommend the books Every
Knee Shall Bow by Jess Walter, Police State by Jerry Spence, and the PBS American Experience
documentary Ruby Ridge. This episode contains reenactments and dramatized details. And while
in most cases we can't know exactly what was said, all our dramatizations are based on historical
research. American Scandal is hosted, edited and executive produced by me, Lindsey Graham
for Airship. Audio editing by Mohamed Shazib. Sound design by Gabriel Goul. Supervising
sound designer, Matthew Filler. Music by Thrum. This episode is written and researched by
Corey Metcalf. Fact checkinging by Alyssa Jung Perry,
Managing Producer Emily Burke,
Development by Stephanie Jens.
Senior Producers are Andy Beckerman and Andy Herman.
Executive Producers are William Simpson for Airship,
and Jenny Lauer Beckman,
Marshall Louie, and Erin O'Flaherty for Wondering.
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