American Thought Leaders - An Inside Look at Shen Yun–And How It’s Defying the CCP’s Global Campaign to Cancel It: Jared Madsen and Ying Chen

Episode Date: January 13, 2024

“Virtually every theater that we go to all around the world since Shen Yun’s inception has either gotten a phone call or a letter from the Chinese embassy or the Chinese consulate putting pressure on them to not have us perform,” says Shen Yun Master of Ceremonies, Jared Madsen.From blackmailing theaters and governments to slashing company bus tires, the Chinese communist regime has gone to extreme ends to subvert Shen Yun, a New York-based performing arts company.As Shen Yun launches its 2024 world tour, I caught up with Mr. Madsen and Shen Yun conductor Ying Chen to learn a little more about their story, their mission, and how they’re defying the Chinese communist regime’s global censorship campaign.

Virtually every theater that we go to all around the world has either gotten a phone call or a letter from the Chinese embassy or the Chinese consulate to not have us perform. From blackmailing governments to slashing company bus tires, the Chinese regime has gone to extreme ends to subvert an American performing arts group. For thousands of years, Chinese culture has been very spiritual. However, when the Communist Party took power in 1949, they started to eradicate all of these belief systems so that they can instill Marxism. What we play on stage reflects the very culture that they have worked so hard to eradicate over the last 77 years. As Shen Yun launches its 2024 world tour, I caught up with Shen Yun Master of Ceremonies Jared Mattson and conductor Ying Chen to understand a bit more about their story,

their mission, and the values they bring to their performances, which have touched millions, including me. This is American Thought Leaders, and I'm Jan Jekielek. Jared Mattson, Chen Ying, such a pleasure to have you on American Thought Leaders. Thank you. It's a great pleasure to be here. Yeah, thanks for having us. It's amazing, actually, to be sitting in front of both of you, because I think, I don't even know how many years it's been now. It was 2008. You came with Shen Yun to Poland. I was involved in bringing you guys over for the first time.

I remember the sold-out shows. Actually, they created the standing room only area. It was an incredible experience, and I learned so much. And I've wanted for a very long time to actually invite you to talk about Shen Yun and some of the challenges and some of the amazing things that you've accomplished over the years. Jared, of course, you're the presenter. You come out front. You explain to people the different pieces that are shown during the show. For those of us that might not be as familiar with Shen Yun, let's roll a quick clip and then we'll get you to tell us about it. Before communism, China had a glorious past.

What if you could bring it back? Since 2006, Shen Yun has been reviving the essence of Chinese civilization, deeply rooted in ancient values like compassion, honesty, and faith. Well, so what did we just see? This is classical Chinese dance. So Shen Yun is considered the world's premier classical Chinese dance company. We have eight troops that tour the world simultaneously. We go to over 150 cities a year. And you can really see the essence of traditional Chinese culture within these dance. It brings history and belief and faith and the

spirituality that's imbued within 5,000 years of Chinese culture to life on stage. And of course, you're the conductor of the orchestra, and it's a very unique sound. Tell me about that. So you always have live music at our performances. We're very proud of the orchestra that we have created. It's a unique blend of traditional Chinese instruments with classical Western instruments, like the typical strings and woodwinds

and brass and percussion. And the result is a wonderful collection of colors that are surprising for a lot of our audience, but at the same time, very familiar because of the Western orchestration. But you also hear these traditional Eastern melodies being played by the Arhu, for example, and the Pipa. So, and all of their pieces are actually original

and specifically created for each of the dance that are shown on stage. So this orchestra is one of a kind. And I believe it's probably the first one in the world to permanently incorporate traditional Chinese and Western instruments. So how does one become a conductor for something so, I guess, new on the face of the earth, a new approach, because this is not something I'm aware of having been done before, at least in any meaningful way.

My parents were both members of the Central Philharmonic Orchestra for 30-some years, so they're, you know, top-level artists in China. And they came here, and all of us actually joined Shen Yun from its inception in 2006. My father was actually the first conductor of the first orchestra that we formed at Shen Yun. Now, as you know, we have eight companies and each has its own orchestra. When the second orchestra was formed, I became the conductor of that orchestra. So yeah, I feel very honored to have joined this journey since early on.

As I understand it, the art form of traditional Chinese dance and the various forms that it existed in almost went extinct. And Shen Yun has been revitalizing that. And of course, there's other companies that have tried to do the same. But what is it that makes Shen Yun different? Well, one really unique thing, especially from the inception of Shen Yun, is that we are not in China. We are not under the Chinese government's thumb. And so a lot of artists who are in that environment realize very quickly that they just become a propaganda tool by the communists in China. And then here in the U.S., we don't have that. And not only that,

our whole goal is to revitalize traditional Chinese culture, to bring that essence out. So many artists from China thought, this is great, this is perfect. I can actually express my art form. I can convey these 5,000 years of history without some sort of political agenda. And of course, viewers of this show will be familiar that in communist regimes, absolutely everything falls into the service of the communist agenda. Why would that be a problem? But it's just dance. Why would that interfere? In China, many of the companies there, if not all, are used in these various propaganda programs, usually used to praise the Communist Party, whereas the true art form is going to be praising the divine, really. That is imbued in traditional Chinese culture because there are

various philosophies and spiritual practices and that you just see that permeate throughout traditional Chinese culture. That runs exactly counter to the communist theory, right? The atheist theory. So basically what they're doing is trying to remove all of that really what I would consider to be the essence of the dance, remove that, make it a propaganda tool. Whereas our goal is, no, let's show that. Let's show the real thing. Let's show what that dance actually has with all the spirituality and the 5,000 years of culture. Jared, you've been, I don't know, I guess a student of China and Chinese history and, of course, traditional Chinese medicine for a very long time. Tell me a little bit about your background. Ever since I was a kid I was

very interested in Chinese culture. I think after reading like the the Daodejing, reading Lao Zen and reading some Buddhist things, I became fascinated with traditional Chinese culture and I had the fortune of right when I entered high school we had a Chinese teacher come. So I got to start to learn Chinese in my high school in Iowa, which was unheard of. We were the only high school in Iowa that had a Chinese teacher. Then after that, I had the fortune of when I was 17, school year abroad, started a China program. So this was the very first program where students outside of China, high school students, could go and study at a high school in China. So right after I graduated from high school, I'm going to stay here. In 1996, as I was looking into various types of

practices, as I was studying Chinese medicine, I came across Falun Gong. And at that time, it was not outlawed in China. In fact, just the opposite. It was praised. So I remember being in university in China and watching the TV and seeing the news reports praising Falun Gong and praising the health benefits. And I always had this very deep wish of wanting to take this essence of traditional Chinese culture because there's so many gems, so much wisdom that this essence of traditional Chinese culture, because there's so many gems, so much wisdom that can be found in Chinese culture, and bringing that to the West. So in 1999, after I finished my university studies in China, I came back to the United States. Very soon after that, the persecution of Falun Gong began. And so then I was, you know,

I always had this dream of us Westerners, how can we experience traditional Chinese culture? Come enter Shen Yun. And so in 2007, I was fortunate enough to be able to become part of Shen Yun to start emceeing. So honestly, I mean, it really was my dream come true because I get to go on stage every night in front of thousands of people and help the world understand, hey, there's 5,000 years of this amazing culture that there's so much to learn from it, so much wisdom that no matter what culture you're from, no matter what person you are are you will definitely find many benefits from it so for people very familiar with Shen Yun you they might understand there's a deep connection between Shen Yun and Falun Gong but for those that aren't might not Chen Ying maybe tell me what the connection is

Shen Yun was actually created by artists who follow the spiritual practice of Falun Gong back in 2006. You know, for thousands of years, Chinese culture has been very spiritual under the strong influence of Buddhism, Taoism, Confucianism. However, when the Communist Party took power in 1949, they started to eradicate all of these belief systems so that they can instill Marxism into the people's minds. So I think it really comes down to mind control. For the last 70 years, they changed textbooks. They basically tried to brainwash people and re-educate our new generation without these

traditional beliefs in there. I believe, personally, I believe that one of the reasons why Falun Gong became so popular, embraced by so many people in China in the 1990s, aside from the health benefits, it really connects people back to their roots because of the spiritual element in Falun Gong, about self-improvement, about believing that there are higher power, men are not the only ones in control. And so I think it really resonates with people's hearts in China. So I believe the people who practice Falun Gong started to search for that root more and study into it. And as a result, we try to reclaim this lost cultural heritage. So that's part of what Shen Yun is

doing. And we try to, you know, sift through things and get back what's authentic traditional heritage and share that with the world. We basically remind people of, you know, what our beliefs are and how traditionally people sought the harmony between heaven, earth, and humanity. Me as being an outsider, as non-Chinese, but going to China, learning about traditional Chinese culture, being fascinated with it, when I came upon Falun Gong, to me it felt like this was the essence of traditional Chinese culture. This was bringing that 5,000 years together into one practice. So then when Shen Yun started, was started by Falun Gong practitioners, to me it made perfect sense. Of course, the practice that is trying to revitalize

traditional culture, of course we're going to have a show that brings the 5,000 years of culture to life on stage. So Shen Yun has been interfered with by the Chinese communist regime quite a bit over the years, I think, you know, from the beginning. And most notably, most recently in South Korea, we actually have a series of reports that we've done on that recently. So tell me a little bit about, you know, how that's happened and why. Virtually every theater that we go to all around the world since Shonyun's inception has either gotten a phone call or a letter from the Chinese embassy or the Chinese consulate putting pressure on them to not have us perform, sometimes dangling a little bit of economic benefits in front of them. Fortunately for us, virtually

no theater has bowed to that. Now we're experiencing some challenges in South Korea, a couple other countries like Indonesia, Thailand, Vietnam. Also too, some things that we've experienced. And this was one time that during my tour, I remember that we got up in the morning and somebody had slashed the tires. Somebody had seen that, but it was slashed just deep enough that it wouldn't, there was still air in the tires, but that they would, they would burst while we were driving. And so it was from that forward. That's one of the dancers buses, right? That was one of the, it actually happened to multiple buses all around the same times,

buses and the trucks. And it was from that point that we had no other option but to have 24-hour security for our vehicles. It's a show. Why are they so threatened? Ours in China have been heavily censored by the government. Basically, all the media in China is controlled by the government. So only the government gets to decide what you say out in the public. But here we have Shen Yun, made in the US, that's outside of the reach of the Communist Party. And we have refused to be subjugated to their rules and to their liking. And what we play on stage reflects our divine culture, the very culture that they have worked so hard to eradicate over the last 70-some years.

And also we expose human rights crimes still being perpetrated in China as we speak, including organ harvesting, taking organs from live people in order to benefit from it economically. It's something you cannot even imagine but it has been happening in China. In fact, my brother was once incarcerated in a labor camp for 18 months in China and he went through very some brutal torture there and at the, we thought he would never make it out of there. Thankfully, he did, but some of his friends were injected with drugs and went crazy as a result. Then the government said, look, this is what happened to people who practice Falun Gong. They've gone crazy by themselves. Of course, people didn't know that they were injected with drugs. So there are unspeakable crimes that you and I in this country just cannot possibly imagine

that are being done over there. If you just think about it, how can people just get a transplant like that without staying in line, without—you can get something that matches your blood type right away. And of course, we've covered this horrific practice of forced organ harvesting. I kind of call it a murder for organs industry myself. I've called it that in China. It's hard to believe that it's just these one or two programs that the Chinese Communist Party is really threatened by.

I think they're threatened by the whole program. We're showing 5,000 years of traditional Chinese culture, and you see divine beings on stage. We have a digital backdrop where they seem to come out of the heavens and then to life on stage. That runs exactly counter to the communist principles, the atheist ideas. That's what I think threatens them the most. We at Epoch Times have been sponsors of Shen Yun for a very long time, and we've been doing a lot of interviews with audience members and so forth. It's kind of astonishing the kinds of things that people say.

Breathtaking. It is absolutely stunning. The ability of the show to transcend culture and bring light and love and happiness is just astounding. I think it's magnificent. It's magnificent to see another part of Chinese culture that a lot of people don't get to see. And the stories are amazing. The execution, the dance is amazing. This experience for me is transcendent. I feel better about the world.

I feel uplifted. You just cannot see this show and remain unchanged. I can say this as a priest. It's a real spiritual experience. People nowadays go to the doctors, the psychiatrists for pills, for antidepressants. This, this is the antidepressant. The best. Absolutely perfection. One of the themes that has come out over the years is this kind of the unity of the dancers. Sometimes people will say they move as one. Sometimes there's a flow that's sort of ineffable somehow.

Yeah, you probably don't see that anywhere else, right? Well, it's incredibly unique. So how do you achieve that? I think really much of Shen Yun's accomplishments, I think it's credited to the spiritual practice that we engage in. When I talk about spiritual practice, we're talking about trying to live by the principles of Zhen Shan Ren. And Zhen is usually translated as being true or being genuine. Shan is being kind and compassionate. And ren is something quite profound. I think you need a collection of words to describe it.

It's been translated as tolerance or forbearance, but actually it also means self-discipline. It means being resilient in all kinds of different situations. It means having patience, being able to endure difficult challenges and challenging circumstances. So when you live by those principles, these things really help us stay composed and positive actually in all circumstances and think about the greater benefit of the teamwork. So I believe all of these play a big role in how we've accomplished what we have. Let me give you one example. At the end of every single performance, and this is the case with all eight companies of Shen Yun, at the end of every performance, we actually gather together and do a recap of the show.

What went right, what went wrong, what could have been better. And I'm talking about it on both an individual level and also for the group. And people actually talk about, oh, I didn't do so well here, because the self-reflection is part of the culture, you know, of how we do things at Shen Yun.

Always looking for ways to improve and do even better. So even when our audience thinks everything is perfect, we can still see, you know, we're still looking for things to, ways to do things even better. The way that we strive for perfection that way, it's definitely a powerful thing that has helped us thrive and grow throughout the years. So how are these dancers trained?

In Hudson River Valley, we actually have this beautiful campus. With that, we have the training facilities for Shen Yun, and these are top-notch facilities, amazing dance studios. Connected are top-notch facilities. Amazing dance studios connected to that. And orchestra halls. We have a beautiful concert hall and we have two theaters. Amazing concert hall. We have theaters where we can do rehearsals. We're constantly learning from each other. One company will go and perform a rehearsal and then all other seven companies

will watch and you know, oh okay, that's I, I see what they did there. And we all kind of bring it together. Learn from each other. Learn from each other. Our campus too also has a temple created in Tang Dynasty style. This whole area we call Dragon Springs. So it gives you this feeling like you've gone back in time. For me anyway, it's this amazing thing to have. It's almost like a walk in a park. This is like a walk back in time. Two things are coming through to be here, okay? One of them is, you know, the incredible sense of serenity that the dancers and the musicians get to experience

as one, they're starting to learn their craft and then two, when they're actually, you know, pros doing it and preparing for the season. How long does the season last? That's also something that i found kind of astonishingly see it almost feels like they're going year round or something we usually leave mid-december uh and then it will last to mid-may so we we have a tourist season and then when we come back in may because we put on an all-new performance every year so in the, the choreographers are working at creating new dances. The musicians and composers, they're working at creating new music.

We have our costume department making beautiful costumes. We have the backdrop with designers doing all of that. And then come fall is when we really start to seriously do our rehearsals and really get the show perfected for tour. The scale of this is astonishing. It's absolutely astonishing. Eight orchestras, eight dance companies. And all eight companies have pretty full performance schedule. I wouldn't be surprised if we grow past eight companies sometime soon because

the demand, sometimes we can't even keep up with the demand. There are certain cities, theaters that will request us to go and it's like, sorry, we're booked. All eight companies are booked this year. What are some of the challenges inherent to actually making all this work? I think the performance standards at Shen Yun are very, very high. So you have to have the passion for excellence and to strive for that all the time. I think our spiritual practice definitely helps us stay on the right track. But it's still hard, you know, like with everything. It's not just magical. You have to do the hard work.

There has to be the heart to do it. There has to be the dedication. And if I may, I believe we are creating something that's truly special and unique and amazing. Yeah, I feel so proud of what we have done. And to create something like that, world class, it comes with the dedication, the stamina, all of that continuous engagement and a little bit of self-sacrifice. But it's all worth it. That's what it takes to create something amazing.

And Jared, a final thought as we finish? One thing that really touches me is seeing the audience reaction after the show. I have a story where our bass player, because he's in the orchestra pit, but he's standing when he plays. So he can actually, he's one of the only people who is playing and can see the audience. And he will see when the curtain opens up. I don't want to reveal what happens at the very beginning. But when the curtain opens up, he sees the look on people's faces. He sometimes even sees tears in people's eyes

right when the curtain goes up. It's a magical, amazing experience. Those experiences, seeing those looks on people's faces, that really encourages me. It shows that this show, that we are going above and beyond a typical show, that it is an experience. It's almost an otherworldly experience. We really are transporting people to these different times and up into heaven and down into history. And that's what moves me and motivates me the most, seeing this, the look on people's faces and seeing the interviews afterwards. So you guys are going to be at Lincoln Center.

You guys are going to be at Kennedy Center, where I'm at right now in Washington, D.C. I often have told people that I've been invited to the show that it gives me energy for a month. So nourishing to the heart, to the soul. That means our efforts are worth it, right? So where else are you heading this year? All over the world. We're going to Asia, Japan, Taiwan, down to Australia. We'll definitely be in the US. We'll be in Canada, South America, all over Europe. Well, Jared Madsen, Chen Ying, it's such a pleasure to have had you on.

Thank you for having us. Thanks, Jan. Thank you all for joining. Well, Jared Madsen, Chen Ying, it's such a pleasure to have had you on. Thank you for having us. Thanks, Jan. Thank you all for joining Chen Ying, Jared Madsen, and me on this episode of American Thoughts