American Thought Leaders - Arrested and Banned From School, Josh and Nick Alexander on Their Fight Against Gender Ideology and Mandates

Episode Date: February 16, 2024

Brothers Josh and Nick Alexander are evangelical Christians who have become known in Canada for taking vocal stances against COVID-era mandates and gender ideology in schools.They were highly active in Canada’s Freedom Convoy and the Million March for Children, a walk-out protest against gender ideology. They’ve been arrested multiple times and faced major backlash for their activism.Josh Alexander was suspended and ultimately banned from physically attending his Catholic high school after protesting against transgender individuals using the bathroom of their choice and saying that there are only two genders.Views expressed in this video are opinions of the host and the guest, and do not necessarily reflect the views of The Epoch Times.

They're calling me a racist, they're calling me a misogynist, a homophobe. I've had articles written about me calling me a terrorist. Brothers Josh and Nick Alexander are evangelical Christians who have become known for taking vocal stances against COVID-era mandates and gender ideology in schools. They were highly active in Canada's Freedom Convoy and the Million March for Children, a walkout protest against gender ideology. They've faced major backlash for their activism. The other crowd just keeps attacking us. They have umbrellas they're

trying to stab us with. I looked out the sidewalk I was standing on, there's a pool of blood there. The cops come surround us, put us in cuffs and drag us off to the paddy wagon. I engaged with students even from the paddy wagon and they wanted to get me on a hate speech bylaw. Josh was suspended and later banned from his Catholic high school after saying there are only two genders and also speaking out against transgender use of bathrooms. This is American Thought Leaders, and I'm Jan Jekielek. Josh and Nick Alexander, such a pleasure to have you on American Thought Leaders.

Thank you for having us. Thanks for having us. Thanks for having us. Well, I'm particularly happy to have, I guess, almost some friends from Renfrew, very close to where I spent the summers of my childhood. Beautiful, beautiful area. And so, you know, you guys have been involved in the Freedom Convoy protests, you know, a couple of years back, and all sorts of significant social issues that have been bubbling up to the surface across Canada. And so I want to talk about that.

But the first thing I want to talk about is your reaction to this federal court in Canada basically deeming the invocation of the Emergencies Act by the Trudeau government as unconstitutional, as against the Charter of Rights and Freedoms. So how do you react to that, Nick? Yeah, well, we've all known that it has been in defiance of our Constitution and our Charter of Rights, and it just, the ruling kind of sets it in stone and makes it apparent to the whole world how corrupt our government is. What about you?

Yeah, I was actually in the truck with Chris Barber, the lead truck from the Freedom Convoy. He was on trial right now at Tamara Litch when we got that call informing us that the federal court had made that decision. And it was definitely encouraging to see that, but it's also, it's what we expected, but we've watched now the federal government also say they're going to appeal that decision. So it'll be interesting within the coming weeks to see how well written that decision was and if they're going to be able to critique it very much. Absolutely. And, you know, just I'm reminded that they're charged for mischief and this is you know not typically something that is you know

long drawn-out trial certainly of the prominence that we're seeing so what is their status? Yeah so they're currently on trial right now in Ottawa and it's taking longer than most murder cases would. I've got to sit in for a bit of that, but it's ridiculous how long it's taking and the steps that the Crown has gone to to prove how guilty they were of obeying their charter and staying true to their nation's values in a time of crisis. So I'm definitely glad that they are still doing well. They're encouraged and they're fighting strong, Tamara and Chris,

and not just them but so many others that are on trial right now, including a friend of mine, Aaron Eldridge. He was known as the shirtless guy from the convoy. He went around the entire convoy without a shirt in negative 30 weather in the winter. And he survived somehow. He survived, but his sentencing will be on, I believe, February 15th. So he's been found guilty of a lot of stuff. So it hasn't stopped. We have this decision that is encouraging, but we also have to recognize it's cost a lot of people, and especially we've still got the coots for,

imprisoned without due process in Alberta for two years now. And nobody wants to talk about those issues. Well, let's mention that. I recently had Rupa Subramanya, who did some excellent reporting from Ottawa about the Freedom Convoy protests back in February 2022. But we were talking a little bit about the Gutzberg, but neither of us really knew what was happening. And I noticed that Tucker Carlson recently was discussing with this, with Premier Smith of Alberta. So maybe, why don't you

kind of remind me or our our audiences, what this is, or perhaps introduce us to this whole issue? Yeah, well, this is obviously the Canadian government overreaching once again. The Quds 4 were at the Quds border during the Freedom Convoy, and they were involved in that demonstration. There was a lot of accusations that came from all that. I'm actually, I'm not very well versed on everything that happened but just as an onlooker I see that and like I grew up watching old westerns and I've said this before it was there were always innocent until proven guilty there was was due process. And you could trust the government to be the good guys and the prosecution to be held honorably. And that's not what we're

seeing here. We've seen the Canadian government, especially in Alberta, actually break the Geneva Convention on some of their prisoners, political prisoners. So this is definitely an issue that needs to be talked about more. Maybe qualify that for me. Well, we've had an excellent example. Artur Pawlowski, he was held in confinement for the longest time. They actually bring him into the stand-up steel box, which is about a foot and a half wide, and you can't sit down in it, you have to stand. They'd leave him in there for hours

and uh so they actually when they arrested him the one time they hung him from the uh the paddy wagon uh they shackled him uh with both his hands and his feet and he was hanging in there so uh he's a pastor for those who don't know he's uh just a guy that wanted to open up his church and give the gospel. And he called the police. I remember the viral clip where he's calling the police Nazis. What are you guys doing coming here? Yeah.

I actually got to speak in his church last year, and I'll be meeting up with him again here in D.C. next week. But he's just one of the many pastors that spoke out and did the right thing and obeyed the scriptures and the Great Commission. Yeah, they're being punished for it. So there is some encouraging news in Canada, but it's also you have to be wary of what's going on behind the scenes. I've mentioned on this show a number of times that I view the Freedom Convoy protests

as perhaps the most consequential protest globally in recent history because it kind of, well, there were a few things. One was that it was Canadians doing it, and Canadians are known for being particularly mild-mannered, right? And there's this huge, huge convoy that sort of emerged and sort and people kept joining all the way to Ottawa. That was one thing. Two, it was this absolutely genuine grassroots movement. Everybody except perhaps the media and the federal government knew that, that it wasn't some kind of weird interference or nonprofit funded thing.

No, this was actual people, you know, putting their money where their mouth was. And finally, you know, because of this incredible invocation of the Emergencies Act, which now the federal court has basically said, no, that was way overreach. But that showed, and the debanking that came with it, I think it showed people, wow, this is not just theoretical that governments can do this. They just did it, right? What's your reaction to having seen, I guess, the after effects of the protest? How did things change, Nick, maybe since that time?

I think it gave the world a glimmer of hope in the face of tyranny that the people can make a change. We saw that the protests, right after it ended, the mandates ended. So it shows that the people, when they stand up against a tyrannical government, it can inflict change in how the government acts towards the people. But it also showed the level of evil that a government is willing to go through, go to punish people for civil rebellion, so to speak.

You guys have a, you know, a very interesting vantage point. You're young, you've been on the streets, I mean, you've had crazy altercations with both protesters and law enforcement. Let's go back a little bit. What's school like in Canada? I mean, and you know this personally from your own experience,

but also from lots of people that have been reaching out to you as well. Tell me about that. Yeah, so I was going to school. I was actually homeschooled to grade seven. And then I went into the public board. And in Canada, we have the public board and then we have the public Catholic board. They're both essentially the same. Although many would like to argue that I've experienced both of them. And I have to say that the Catholic board was actually more openly radical in their ideology.

And I don't mean that in a religious sense. I mean that in a woke, progressive sense. And then I went into the high school, and that's when the mandates started to come in, and I was openly opposed to that. And so I would be suspended from school a lot for noncompliance, and that was an issue that ended up taking place when me and my friend Monty Walker organized student walkouts against mandates and they spread from Ontario to Alberta to BC, Nova Scotia, everywhere. And we did

these walkouts, the board would plead with us to stop and when that didn't work they'd start disciplining us and they called the police on us trying to stop us and that was actually the only time in the last couple of years I can say that the police did the right thing when my principal from my public school called them and said we have a student here that's organizing protests and won't stop they explained to him the Charter of Rights and Freedoms and the Bill of Rights and our right to peaceful assembly and all that. And then the Freedom Convoy came in, and we were involved as students there.

And at one point, you had to be 18 or older, according to the federal government, to exercise your right to peaceful assembly. And when I heard that, me, Nick, and a few other students all went down to the convoy, and we helped with some of the gas running and all that. But yeah, that was my first experience. And then I left that school board after the mandates got lifted. I just wanted to finish my education in a more polite manner without teachers harassing me nonstop. How did the teachers harass you?

They would, I would get just sent to the office for anything. I could do, I could sit down for lunch in an area that they didn't like and I'd get sent to the office. It was a personal issue that they had because I did not go along with the mandates and they didn't like that. And they would often try to play it off as a disrespect issue. But even my own principal noted to me in many conversations, he was like, you are a respectful student, you were an award winning student, we don't know where you went wrong. They just wanted me to sit down and shut up about the issue.

If it was just that simple, maybe I would have, but I recognize that there is a lot more to this issue than people's safety and staying six feet away so Granny would stay safe. Throughout history, we've exchanged freedom for safety, and that's always our biggest mistake. And I tried, desperately trying to get students to recognize what was going on, and they wouldn't. I would make predictions, and like I remember, for instance, I said early on, I said there's going to be a mask mandate soon said no no no it's we have freedoms in this country that wouldn't happen and then it happened and they all defended it and they're like well do we kind of have to because it's for our safety and then I'd say well there's gonna be a vaccine mandate and sure enough there'd be a

vaccine mandate and I said there won't just be one there'll be multiple and it just kept happening and now that we have this decision that's just come, we're seeing kind of a change in the narrative where they all pretend that they all thought that all along. It was an overreach and it's quite ridiculous, but you'll never win. But that seems positive somehow to me. It's falsely so. There's basically, they're saying that after calling us terrorists, I've had articles written about me calling me a terrorist by the Ottawa City, like accredited journalists and stuff. And you have all these accusations.

And then just overnight, there's a decision and everything's back to normal. Nothing ever happened. I just know that, sure, today they might be on our side with this issue. But the next time the government tells them not to be, they won might be on our side with this issue, but the next time the government tells them not to be, they won't be, and they'll understand what the government puts before them, and they will be warriors for falsehood again. You know, I'm just talking about gender ideology.

I remember, Nick, you were at an event with Chris Elston in Toronto where you had an altercation with counter-protesters and then law enforcement. Tell me about that whole situation. Yeah, I believe it was on September 22nd. It was shortly after the Million Man March that we were helping orchestrate across Canada. And yeah, we were with Billboard Chris in Victoria Park in Toronto. We were doing one of our normal events, our education over indoctrination protests. And we had a decent sized crowd. There was a few hundred people there. It wasn't as big as we were expecting, but a decent sized crowd. And there was roughly the same size opposing us, a little less, still a few hundred opposing us. And they

were just getting very violent throughout the day. It was just escalating, escalating, escalating. And so we kind of were on one side of the street and they took the other side and the cops just kept pushing our crowd further away, further away. And so there was a small portion of our crowd that ended up getting stuck kind of behind, surrounded by the woke mob. And so I just went back there. I was going to get them to move. And I was like, I discussed it with the police. I said, we've been organizing this event for months.

We have every right to be here. You guys know we're here. We're the reason you guys are here. We have the right to stand here. And so the other crowd just keeps attacking us. They have umbrellas they're trying to stab us with. They kind of come in waves. Three or four of them will rush into you,

and the rest of them will come in behind them and try to push you off the sidewalk or onto the street and just try to get us out of there. And so one of them ran over and tried to tackle me, and so I just kind of was trying to get him off me. I'm kind of crouched down trying to push him off of me. And a second guy dives over and takes a swing at me. And it was in my peripheral vision, so I couldn't exactly see what was in his hand.

But he sliced me right above the eye. Luckily, I saw him in my peripheral vision coming, so I was able to kind of back out of the hit and avoid most of the contact. So it just got a bit of a cut above my eye. And so I was bleeding pretty bad. I looked down at the sidewalk I was standing on. There was a pool of blood there. And instead of the cops, instead of arresting the guy who attacked me, pushed him, put him back in the crowd, and kept trying

to get me to leave. And so I'm standing there, and at this point I'm just giving the gospel to the crowd, like we always do. It's really a message of absolute love. And the cop walks up to me and says, you can't say that here. You can't do that here. And so one of the veterans I was with, his name is Wild Bill. He's a, he's a good fella. And he was there with us and he says, it's going to be an honor going down beside you. And he shakes my hand. I see him and he's, you can see it's something switched. He knows what's about to go down. And the cops come surround us, put us in cuffs and drag us off to the paddy wagon, and kept us in the paddy wagon for, I'd say, a couple hours. We were in there for quite a while, and meanwhile, I'm

bleeding. A face cut bleeds a lot, and it was fairly deep, and so when we finally got to the police precinct, they kept me locked up in the paddy wagon for an extended period of time before one of the officers came up, and I was still handcuffed, but he, uh, he put a, some sort of bandage on the cut. It wasn't, it wasn't sticking because there was so much blood. And so he wrapped it in a cloth and put a pin on it. And then they took my pin away because they thought I was going to break in his own words. He was worried I was going to break out. I gave him, I kind of was joking about it. I said, you know, I can use that to pick my handcuffs. right? And so, yeah, they refused medical assistance, refused to give me medical assistance for a very extended period of time. And eventually they brought me to the hospital after hours.

And when I get to the hospital, the nurse at the front or the receptionist, I guess, at the front says, you're going to have to put a mask on, sir. I'm in cuffs at this point, covered in blood, and two cops at either side. I'm standing in the merge room, and everyone's looking. It's a bit of a sight. And the nurse says, you're going to have to put a mask on. I said, I'm not putting a mask on. I'm not doing this. And the security walk up, and they say, no, no, you have to put a mask on.

This isn't an option. I say, what are you going to do? Call the cops? And the cop beside me just starts laughing because I'm already arrested. And so, yeah, they stitched me up at the hospital. And I was talking to, actually going back to this. This is in September of 2023. Yes, September 2023.

And they were requiring you to wear a mask. Well, yeah, hospitals in Canada in very early fall just mandated masks again. They're still mandated. Yeah, still are. Actually, going back to the police precinct, you mentioned it was in reference to the cut. One of the cops told me, I asked him what it was, because I knew it was a blade of some sort. And one of the cops said it was a bladed glove and the other cop told me it was a knife um and when one after it got released later on and talking to people uh everybody seemed to think that was in the in the area at the time seem to think that it was a knife and uh but a guy did

get arrested uh shortly after for assaulting another person he was wearing a bladed glove so which one it was i don't know but you know it was a blade of some sort. How do you explain how law enforcement approached this situation? It's interesting you bring that up. What I find so weird about the whole situation is our crowd, the crowd who is pro-freedom, the crowd who's against gender ideology being forced on the kids. Our crowd is the same crowd who back in 2019, back in 2020, was the back the blue crowd. You know, we had back the blue patches we wore, very vocal about support the police, don't defund the police, we need our police, we love our police. And the police have essentially responded to this by unfairly enforcing justice on on the populace who's standing up for up for right and I think

the only they're they're acting with a fear whether it's fear of the crowd fear of the woke mob or whether it's fear of losing their job which we've seen happen in Canada our parents both teachers, lost their jobs because they refused to encourage transgender ideology on their kids. And so whether they're in fear of losing their jobs or whether they're in fear of the mob, they're acting out of fear and they're improperly enforcing justice. What is the state of the education system? How many people in the school system are actually taking a contrarian position? In my experience there's, well, I'm the only student in Canada in my situation.

I believe I'm the only student in the states in this situation. I know there have been other kids that have stood up and they've faced consequences for doing so. One, there's a girl named Olivia who just mentioned the word biological female, I believe, in an essay. And they docked her all her grades. They gave her, I think, a zero on it. But anyways, there are no students that are willing to talk about these issues a lot of them don't recognize that they matter a lot of them don't understand why I do what I do and as far

as teachers go they are they're actually they are worse than the curriculum they are like they're the curriculum you look at the curriculum itself, I disagree with a lot of the sex ed stuff. I disagree with the way it's taught and the way it's addressed. But honestly, the curriculum isn't even my problem. It's more so the radical teachers that enjoy pushing hysteria upon kids. I've had so many teachers just at the beginning of my first year, first time ever being in the Catholic board,

the first question I get asked on the first paper I receive is, what are your pronouns? And so that kind of sets the tone for the rest of the class, and it shows that these students think it's totally normal. They all write down their pronouns and go on to talk about the cultural appropriation and the racist curriculum and systematic racism within municipal government. It's ridiculous just how much they enjoy pushing a false narrative and how infuriated they get when it's challenged.

I've always been respectful. I believe that's the only way that we can properly approach these issues. But they lose their composure, especially in the face of somebody who's respectful. That's what they really dislike, because it's easy to discredit someone that's rude or obnoxious. But when you get somebody that's respectful and articulate and describing the issue before them, they don't like that. And so I've got a lot of very irresponsible feedback from teachers. I've had so many inappropriate comments. For instance, the first argument that was made against me by my

law teacher after I said that males shouldn't be in female washrooms and change rooms was that the only reason I believed that was because I couldn't control my hormones and she told this to the entire class. So I mean that's totally inappropriate for a teacher to talk about that, especially about a student, two other students. That's kind of how empowered they feel. They don't feel that there's going to be any consequences. And I've brought these issues before my school board and before trustees and all that. And yeah, there's no concern about those kind of issues.

They'd rather punish me for, well, at this point, the only allegation against me is that I quoted Mark 10.6, which has got created in the male and female. They don't like it. How is the only allegation against me is that I quoted Mark 10.6, which is God created them male and female. They don't like it. How is that an allegation? So they say that that was bullying. In a Catholic school board, quoting the Bible, a Catholic school board. Yeah, that's been an issue that has come up several times because in Canada we have Bill C-4, which bans conversion therapy,

which essentially bans certain scriptures that state the truth about biblical sexuality. And so Mark 10-6 would be one of those in Genesis 1. You're not coercing anyone to believe that. I'm not, but I'm in a class with students that identify something other than what they were born as. And when I state my beliefs on that issue, when I quote scripture, it's considered offensive, it's considered bullying. And yeah, so that's the allegation.

What actually happened is I was in the classroom with about 30 students, my math teacher, math class. He's shouting at me, telling me I can be whatever I want to be and I should explore myself and I might not actually be a boy. And so I went back and forth with him on this and the the entire class freaked out and they're calling me a racist they're calling me a misogynist homophobe and so I'm kind of defending myself while also stating my opinion and this one student who I've later learned was transgender, stands up and approaches me,

leaves her chair and is walking across the class yelling at me, telling me she can identify as she please and she can be whatever she wants to be. And I respond, I said, yeah, of course you can identify as you please, but that doesn't change your biology. It doesn't change the fact of the matter. Like, it doesn't change your biology, it doesn't change the fact of the matter, like it doesn't change reality. And I said that, I quoted Mark 10.6, and this is where the allegation comes from. I said, look, God created us, male or female. You're either one or the other, and you can't change it.

So that was what was considered bullying. This is in a classroom debate where the teacher's encouraging it. So that's why I've been banned from school for two years, and I won't be, even after that two-year ban is over, I will have an indefinite ban, essentially until I apologize for quoting scripture. Let's talk about the Million Man March, which is, you know, I don't know how many people here in the U.S. know about it, but it's a pretty significant event. You know, a very significant number of people. Canada has how many, 40 million people? Yeah, I think 530.

Something like that, right? Maybe about 40 now. You know, a pretty significant number of people mobilized to participate in all sorts of towns and cities across the country so tell me about that yeah well it was really quite incredible to see parents from all different all different religions all different walks of life saying no we're sick of our kids being told anti truths we're sick of all the corruption that they're being taught

we're sick of the sexual immorality that's being forced on them. We don't want this in our school system. Teach your kids something that's going to benefit them in life. Teach them math, teach them science, real science, biology, physics, and chemistry, and keep this junk out of it. And yeah, like there's been a handful of voices for the last couple of years talking about it. Nearly nobody will bring it up. And I think when you break it down, most parents didn't know what was happening in the school system. Kids go to school, they come back home, parents are busy with work, they make supper, put TV on, go to bed, you know, just living normal life.

And probably weren't aware of what was happening, what was actually taking place in the school system and so really what happened with Josh in in in classroom brought to light what's taking place in our school set the system and parents weren't happy and they came from all walks of life all across the country we had 10,000 people in Ottawa and then you go to Pembroke, this big... That's a big crowd for Ottawa. I remember seeing the photos. And that was a localized Ottawa group.

That wasn't from Toronto. Toronto had another 10,000 people in Toronto, and same in Niagara, same in Barrie, same all across Canada, from east to west. Every town of any size had hundreds and thousands of parents and students walking out. And I think the problem that we're seeing is that woke people, members of the woke mob tend to be a lot more vocal about their opinions.

And that tends to lead people to believe that this is the majority. This is how the majority sees it. When it's not that the majority doesn't see it that way. The majority just doesn't care enough to get involved. And it is time that the majority gets involved before before society is completely collapsed. So do you think that's the beginning of an actual kind of reaction? I think it's hard to say. I've been to schools where I've got to learn a little bit more how students think and I've always wondered how how much different am I from the average student,

because I don't know, a lot of students can't relate to me. But I get to go there and I get to watch, just in a few brief minutes, change within a student body. For instance, I was in Calgary on May 17th of last year, and I show up to this event there's BLM and Antifa that are protesting outside of the high school because there were students at that high school across the country doing running a protest in support of me so I went to visit these students and there they were there there was a groups

waiting there for me supportive students students, students that were against me, a lot that just wanted to see what was going to happen, and then there's BLM and Antifa. And there's a stone wall separating me, BLM, and Antifa from the students. So I get attacked. They punched me in the face. They were choking me out with a chain on my neck. They were burning my Bibles, trying to set me on fire at one point. The students watch this, and I'm totally calm. A lot of them have my hands in the air,

and I'm actually just trying to engage with students while I'm getting attacked. And then the police come in, and they tell me that I'm under arrest. They take me away. And as I'm being cuffed, I'm still talking to students, I'm giving them the gospel, I'm offering them Bibles. And they arrest me, they walk me down, and I engage with students even from the paddy wagon. I just wouldn't shut up, and the police are telling me I need to stop. And they wanted to get me on a hate speech bylaw. Because apparently you can't say anything controversial within 200 meters of a Pride group, but these are counter-protesters to my event. So I got to watch how students reacted to that, even students that were just bystanders.

They didn't really support me. They didn't really know anything. And then about an hour and a half later, I get released under the condition that I don't return. The police tell me, if you return, you will be arrested and charged. So I get released, and I start walking right back because I wasn't done there. I had an event to do, and there were students that wanted to meet me and wanted to talk, and I wanted to give the gospel. So that's what I did. I actually didn't even, there was a line set by the police. They said I couldn't cross a certain line.

I couldn't cross the road towards the school. And as I'm about to cross that line, the students all came to me, students that weren't supportive of me before, and they now all wanted photos, and they were talking with me, and they were asking questions about Jesus on the cross and all these issues,

because they realized that if I was willing to go to that extent to give my message there must be something to it and they can kind of relate to me because I'm 17 years old and they couldn't well they couldn't imagine doing something like that and they can relate to that situation and so they they like that and students love rebellion and young people always have loved rebellion which is why the left is doing so well in the universities and all that because they teach rebellion

against everything that's normal and traditional. And the mistake that the conservatives make is they try to play center field. And they try to get people from both sides. They don't want to offend anybody. And the reason I get a radical response from students is because I have a supposed, well, in this day and age, it's a radical message.

And they like that. They don't want somebody that's going to play center field. They want somebody that will help them rebel. And we've got to channel that rebellion into a righteous rebellion. And that's what I try to do. It's weird that now the born-again Christian kid that's giving Bibles out is rebellious. But that's a tactic. It's something that we need to use.

So I think that's a lesson that a lot of Canadians need to learn. Well, so, and the other thing I wanted to talk about is, I want you to tell me about Save Canada, which is this, I guess, organization or movement which you guys are pursuing. I understand your brother actually got suspended for wearing the hat. But this event that you were talking about earlier,

that was a Save Canada event, right? Yeah. So I want to talk about that because there's a few different elements here. Like, for example, not everybody at the Million Man March. I know there were traditional Muslims at the Million Man March. I know, I know there were, you know, traditional Muslims at the Million Man March. I know there were all sorts of people.

There were, you know, what you call classical liberals at the Million Man March. But on the other hand, you know, obviously your faith is incredibly important to you. You both have mentioned it pretty, you know, in no uncertain terms. So there's kind of this, there's part of the movement which is about freedom in general, and then there's part of this movement which is spreading the gospel, I guess you would say, right? Because Save Canada, it's a provocative name, right? Save Canada from what? Tell me about that. Well, so actually at that march, which was the first time I've ever seen it, there were Jews, like Orthodox Jews. There were Muslims.

There were Christians. There were Catholics. There was everyone you could imagine. There were Sikhs. You name it. Everyone was at that march. And it was because, in my belief, all morality stems from God. And that's kind of the idea of morality.

It's kind of the idea of God. He is the pinnacle of the moral hierarchy. And so truths from that are going to be pulled into every religion. But it all comes back to the truth of morality and where that stems from. So yes, Muslims are going to have... They're some of the most disciplined people you'll ever meet. And they've outdone the church on almost every level. So there's a lot that can be learned from them about discipline and about just being a unified people, and they've really helped. There's a gentleman we worked with a lot, Kamil El-Sheikh, and he was a Muslim and just a parent that said,

look, enough is enough. I want to join. He met me on June 9th in Ottawa and we worked together on this Million Man March thing. And yeah, so it's definitely, a lot of it stems from religion, if not all of it. And my argument is with the Save Canada message, it's a very generic message. It can be used on any issue. And it actually came out of the Freedom Convoy or actually before the Freedom Convoy, but leading up to it about the mask mandates. And it was a young man in Nova Scotia that wore the hat for the first time. He just went to a little rally on Citadel Hill and the police arrested him and everything.

But how is it that Save Canada is an arrest, like wearing a Save Canada hat is an arrestable offense? Well, it was more so the fact that lockdowns were in place and you weren't allowed to leave. You weren't allowed to demonstrate. Oh, OK. So, yeah, anyways, I got to know that that guy and his group and it's been passed off to us for, I mean, about a year before, around the Freedom Convoy, and since we've been running this organization. And I like it because, yes, it refers to our politics and our social issues, but it also refers to the state of our nation. I always say politics are the symptom of the state of our faith in our nation,

because if we were a moral nation Because if we were a moral nation, if we were a righteous nation, we wouldn't be where we are right now. My favorite book in the Bible, Proverbs, talks about what happens to the foolish man and the evil man and the result of a prudent man. And that is so true, and I've seen it work in my own life.

So we have to have faith in that and recognize that, yes, those who rely on falsehood, who campaign on falsehood, are going to fall. And we need to recognize that and have hope in that and be bold about our faith, because there's going to be a time when we have to answer for our actions on earth. And did we stand with the fools that stood on falsehood, with those who built their house in the sand, or are we founded on the rock? Tell me a bit about, tell me a bit about the situation where your brother was suspended

for having a Save Canada hat. What happened there? The hat was never really, like it was controversial but not to the point where anybody really cared i wore it for all my time in high school i wore that hat and that was leading up to the convoy and even after the convoy nobody really cared it wasn't until that viral video of me being arrested outside my high school wearing that hat and it's been a key part in our messaging over the last year about gender ideology that's where we really hit them and they don't like that and so to see any student within the schools wearing this symbol that suggests that they support

me or my narrative they will be kicked out. And I get messages all the time. My little brother saw that Nick got knifed and all that, and he thought he'd wear the hat in support of us and his next day at school. And yeah, they showed up and brought him into the office, told him he needed to take it off. And he asked why, and they couldn't really explain why.

They just said it was controversial, and they didn't like the branding. They said it was controversial and they didn't like the branding was that was too political which it's not as we just explained it's really not a political message there should be nothing wrong with the message save Canada whatever whatever side of the political realm you're on you should recognize that Canada is in peril it's no longer what it used to be. And you wouldn't think it'd be too offensive to say safe Canada, but apparently it is. So they're kicking students out for wearing my hat now. I want to learn a little bit about your parents, because obviously they, you know, played a role in kind of being glib a little bit, a major

role in, you know, you being here today. Everything that led up to it and you being here today chatting with me. So tell me about your relationship with your parents. Very good relationship with both my mom and my dad. They made a lot of sacrifices growing up to make sure we were raised right and raised in line with the Word of God. And they did everything they could in their ability to assure that we were going to grow up and live righteous lives, so to speak. They tossed about the gospel from a very young age, from day one, essentially.

I believe I was three days old when I was first in church. And the gospel, the importance of turning from our sins to Jesus, the importance of repentance, the importance of living a walk, living your life in a walk with Christ. They've very heavily influenced our lives. Save Canada wouldn't exist without them, that's for sure. I would say that for someone to hear that or hear us talk about our parents with respect to these issues, they'd just say, oh, you're just a bunch of indoctrinated kids, but it's really not the case.

My parents didn't want me in the education system because it is indoctrination. They want to teach us how to think and not what to think. And they've presented us the evidence and allowed us to decide for ourselves. And when the truth is before you, it's not that complicated. And so I'm very thankful for my parents and the sacrifice they made to keep us out of school and to homeschool us, but not only that, to now watch them be kicked out of their, like lose their jobs because of it. My dad was one year away from his pension and that's all been stripped from them because they chose to be Christians. And I got asked a question at my school board hearing. I was before a bunch of lawyers at the school,

and they were trying to find out whether I was really guilty of what I'm being accused of. And what is that, by the way? Bullying. Oh, yeah. OK. So yeah, I'm sitting before this board, and I got asked a very strange question.

They asked me, they said, do you believe your principal, Derek Lennox, actually believes what he's saying? And I said, no, I don't believe you can be raised with at least the basis of morality and be totally okay with not standing up for the vulnerable, leaving teenage girls to have to undress in front of boys and all these issues. So no, I don't believe that that's okay. But I said, I said, my parents don't believe that's okay either. And they made a very different decision than Mr. Lennox. And I said, the reason for that is because they're Christians. And the room kind of went silent. And because this is in a Catholic school boardroom. And they did not like that. I said that in order to stand up, in order to take a fall for what is right, you have to be sure of that and

you have to be in a relationship with Christ. And I'm proud to have been raised in a family that had that. How has this affected your family as a whole? It's kind of shaken it up, losing their jobs. Yeah, it's kind of changed the path we were headed down. But at the end of the day, not a lot has changed because we're still grounded on Christ. He's our rock, and we're still grounded on truth.

We're still grounded on His Word. And we know at the end of our lives, we know when we stand before the throne that we've done what's right. Yeah, there's earthly, there's stuff we have to pay for earthly for what's happening, but righteousness has a price. Freedom has a price. Everything has a price. So it's worth paying at the end of the day. You mentioned, Josh, earlier that there aren't a lot of kids that are doing what you're doing. When I say kids, again, kind of glibly, you're 17, right? But there aren't a lot of young people doing what you're doing.

But at the same time, there seem to be a number, and this is coming out whether through the statistics in BC or, you know, the reaction of people to your activities, your communication with people. I know you've been talking with all sorts of young people across the country and beyond even that. So, do you see some sort of shift happening? To an extent. And this goes back to what we were talking about earlier on,

about how the narrative changes as the truth comes to light and everybody kind of acts like that's normal. Students are starting to recognize the truth. They are starting to realize that maybe I'm not the radical, hateful bigot that they thought I was, especially when they actually get to talk to me in person and see my actions in the face of both injustice and tyranny. But I truly believe that without seeing the full truth, our nation won't be able to turn. Canadians are known as being very polite, but that turns into being docile very quickly. And you can be polite and you can be respectful, but you also have to be bold. And that's something that we need to see a change in.

And it's not just in Canada. I'm an American as well, and I get to meet with American citizens and students and see what's going on there, and honestly, it's not much different than Canada. Canada is just a few months ahead of America, and it's sad. I go to the States thinking that there's hope

there. And there is. It's definitely not too late to fix America. But I see the same symptoms. And the world in general is headed in a very bad direction. And I believe the only thing that can change that is an actual recognition of what is true to the core. And so, yeah, I'm willing to stand. I'm willing to die for my faith. If it's not worth dying for, it's not worth living for. Do you remember a time, you're obviously, you know, you grew up in a very Christian household, your parents instilled these values, as you've been describing, Nick. And so was there some moment where you decided, okay, yes, I'm on board with this? Did you have to make that choice? Was it just sort of always obvious?

It's very curious to me how people, or not curious, but it's always very interesting to me how people come to their faith, right? I can't remember an exact moment where I decide this is true. I don't have an amazing testimony in that manner where I came to faith, but I know that I was at a fairly young age when I recognized that, and I've only grown since. But I'd also say that in the Bible it talks about how we are to die to our sin every day. Every day we are supposed to make that decision

that, yeah, this is what I'm going to stand for. With every decision we make in our lives, it should be with that in mind. So I think with each challenge that's put before us, we have to make that decision every time. For me, I think I was about 11. Like I said, I grew up in a Christian home. I was well aware of the gospel.

I was well aware of the story of the cross. I was well aware of it all. It just didn't personally have a huge effect on me. I remember I was 11 years old. I was at a gospel tent meeting. The preacher was preaching. I believe he was using a chart, the broad road, the narrow road. It's a chart that a lot of gospel preachers use.

I remember just sitting there and it struck me. It's like, I'm a sinner. I'm right now in my sin before a holy God. The reason I'm talking, I'm asking about this, right, is like you mentioned earlier, right, that in a very secular very highly secularized society, which Canada is even much more so than the U.S., and the U.S. is quite that way, all of these types of processes, religious processes, are often portrayed as being some kind of indoctrination, right? And it's not something that people that have come to personally, right? That's my observation.

I don't know if you disagree. Please tell me. But that's the reason I'm asking about this. Right? Because I'm, you know, people's strength. I've encountered all sorts of people. I mean, this show is about, you know, people who are credibly challenging some of the grand narratives of the day. You know, and many of them false, actually. And people come to their strength in different ways, and they often have to... For some of them, it's just obvious that this is what they have to do.

But sometimes they find it in God, other times they find it in other places. I believe that morality can be found and I have a lot of secular people I've met are willing to stand up more than Christians so like I said yeah it can't be through indoctrination it has to be a personal choice that this is the truth so yeah that there that can be for that can come from people that aren't religious and it has many times throughout history many of many of the greats were atheistic or didn't believe in the Christ's death on the cross whether you're a Christian or not

everybody recognizes that there's evil you'll have all these scientists and these secular figures talking about the common rule, every equal has an opposite. So if we know that there is evil to every opposite, we have to recognize that, yeah, there is good, there is a pinnacle of morality. I want to switch gears a little bit. And, you know, when something that I,

you've said in the past, we're talking about the situation in schools, right? All of this has been put on its end, just from the perspective of being someone who was recently in school. What does that look like? It's weird, because physical relationships are a dying thing. They've kind of been replaced by social media. Snapchat's probably the tool that's most used where both sexes seem to be getting their I guess satisfied from what they want through social media

it's a very strange situation It's a mess, you'll have these circles where promiscuity is encouraged and it's all they work on. And then you have the pornographic group. They just send nudes and they try to make any kind of offer. And I don't want that. I'm waiting for marriage. I think that's one of the greatest things our society has lost. It's the greatest bond between a man and a woman. It's the gift God gave to marriage. And it's something that's been lost and it's been perverted and we need to change that. One of the things that I've been covering a little bit on this show, but it's very hard for

me to find people who can credibly talk about it or have studied it, is the impact of pornography on our society. My sense is that it's a profoundly destructive effect. You mentioned it briefly. So how common is it among high school? The vast majority of males, I'd say in the high 90 percentile, are into pornography. It's rampant. And it used to be something that people were embarrassed by, right?

The only place you'd get it was maybe the gas station, right? But that's no longer the case. It's open to anybody, and it's a private thing that you'd think they still would be embarrassed by, but no. I was in my math class again, as you do in math class, we were talking about the cause of pornography. I'm sitting there and I was shocked. Girls and guys openly talking about what they watch, how much they watch it, when they watch it, the most recent time they watched it. And I mean, I was shocked. I thought this was, I always knew it was a raging issue, but I didn't know that it was something that they didn't even recognize as a problem. They weren't embarrassed by it. They're totally okay with that.

And it also explains why our population is so docile and weak when it comes to tyranny. It completely, there's a Latin word, virtus. It's a war, it's a, it's defined as warrior virtue, bravery, honor, courage, something that's completely lacking in our society. But look back at the ancient Greeks, the ancient Romans, that was what their society was built upon. The men were warriors. And was what their society was built upon. The men were warriors, and that's what made them so great. That's what has made so many accomplishments in their society.

And men get this desire to conquer, I guess, fulfilled in pornography. It, I believe, has an effect that's caused a very, or partially, the cause behind our weak and docile society. Project Veritas just did release something, I believe it was Project Veritas, well, sorry, no longer Project Veritas, it was James O'Keefe. He released something where they had an interview with somebody from Pornhub, and guy admitted that they tried to, they have branding in there, they have techniques to try to open people up to new categories and it just furthers the sexual perversion of our country.

Beauty inspires men to greatness, but when you remove the tradition in beauty and you remove the elegance and just make it only the physical beauty and not the heart, it becomes really lame. This is something I'm going to be looking into a lot deeper because my sense is there's something that's really profoundly broken in how we're forming relationships as young people through the mediation of this pornography. I just, like, I can't imagine how destructive... I can't even begin to imagine how destructive

of an impact that might have on relationships because, you know, expectations, all, you know, so many things, this desensitization, which, of course, is, you know, related to what you were talking about just now. You know, you guys are, on the one side, you paint a very dark picture. On the other hand, I know you've inspired a lot of people, Christian and otherwise, to be more vocal about their beliefs and, you know, stand up for what they believe

and say it publicly. And so, you know, as we finish up, I guess I want to touch on that a little bit, about these, you know, sort of reactions to your work. We've covered it a little bit, but... And sort of, you know, what safe Canada is up to next yeah we we've definitely seen a change in the way that the nation has responded to us it would not like internationally as well the people are starting to accept

our narrative and it's become more of a talking point for the longest time politicians wouldn't discuss this and now here we are. When you say this just to be clear. Gender ideology and just the the destruction of our nation our once great nation and I look at that and I recognize that there is so much fear involved from both the people and the politicians that needs to be addressed but I also see that one man one one 17 year old kids voice can mean a lot one 19 year old kids a firefighter he was a firefighter the youngest on the department his actions which ended up costing him his job can can mean a lot. They can white the testimony across the nation and make a difference.

It'll never be recognized, but that's not our goal. The fact of the matter is it has changed the way social issues are addressed in Canada. We aren't going to stop. In fact, on February 16th, we have the third education over indoctrination rally coming up in Ottawa. And we've had quite a bit of success with those in the past,

and I'm looking forward to that one. Well, Josh and Nick Alexander, such a pleasure to have had you on. Thank you very much. Thank you for having us. Thank you all for joining Josh and Nick Alexander and me on this episode of American Thought Leaders. I'm your host, Jan Jekielek.