American Thought Leaders - CPAC Panel: ‘The Good Doctors’ With Dr. Robert Malone and Dr. Brooke Miller, Hosted by Jan Jekielek

Episode Date: February 28, 2024

Epoch Times senior editor Jan Jekielek hosted a panel “The Good Doctors” with Drs. Robert Malone and Brooke Miller at the Conservative Political Action Conference in National Harbor, Maryland, on Feb. 24.

Well, hello everyone and welcome to this star-studded panel of the real story of January 6th, The Long Road Home. You've just watched the trailer of this. This is available on Epoch TV. I'm going to tell you a quick few things about the Epoch Times. Because of films like this, we have experienced quite a bit of growth in the company and today we are the number four news media in America with the New York Times the Wall Street Journal the Washington Post and then the Epoch Times although they don't like to admit it so I I'm going to mention something that a friend of mine, Jason Jones, once mentioned to me.

And he said, I was kind of stunned by this. He said, you know, the Epoch Times stands for vulnerable people. Okay, vulnerable people of all sorts. And he said, you know, I wasn't totally sure about you guys until you decided to tackle January 6th. Because this was one of these issues that you're really not allowed to go there. And of course, so we started with back in 2021. We've actually covered more.

We've done more than 500 articles on the issue of January 6th. We have two feature-length documentaries, we have a special program. I'm going to introduce Joe Hanneman in a moment who put together with, we've got a lot of exclusive access to this January 6th footage. And finally we actually had a 78th special report on January 6th which you can actually order as well. If that's something you're interested in, our people will help you with that afterwards. We also do, and I should mention this as well,

we also do other films. And right after this panel, which will last about an hour, we're going to screen a new documentary that's coming out next week. This is the first screening of it. It's called Hollywood Takeover. And it's about how the Chinese Communist Party took over Hollywood to indoctrinate Americans. Just want to flag that for everybody.

So this is right now, we're basically on the third anniversary, just past the third anniversary of January 6th. We had part one of this film that came out basically in 2022. And that film, from what I understand, it's about 16 million people have watched it right now. Which for a taboo topic, I think we're off to a good start. And on the third anniversary, we launched part two. And this film focuses on the untold stories of basically what has happened to January

6th defendants. Our investigative reporter for a lot of the January 6th work that I just discussed is Joe Hanneman. He's sitting here to my left. And I just want to mention that when Joe got the job to do this, he was what you would call a January 6th skeptic, I guess. He mostly accepted the narrative until he decided to dig, right? And being the truth-seeking journalist that he is, he found a heck of a lot that didn't comport. So I'm going to hand it over to Joe now, and I'm going to get Joe to introduce our panelists. Thank you, Jan. I'm a senior investigative reporter.

The emphasis on the senior. I'll be 60 in June, so I just like to point that out This fine group of people Helped us in many ways with the documentary and our hundreds of articles on January 6th Immediately to my left Sarah Maccabee her husband Colt is a January 6th defendant who is awaiting sentencing, and she has become a leading advocate for January 6th families throughout her grief from what her family's been through. And next to her is Bill Shipley, who's one of the preeminent defense attorneys representing defendants in January 6th cases.

If I may, I think 40, over 40 now, is that right? Over 40 defendants, if I understand, is that right? Yeah, I don't really keep track anymore. Okay, let's continue. And next to Bill is Jerry Perna. She is the aunt of Matthew Perna, who on Sunday, it's the second anniversary of his suicide, that he was so beaten down by the system, and even though he pled guilty, what the DOJ wants people to do, he didn't even take a plea deal.

He wanted it over with. And at the last minute, they came in with terrorism enhancers that would have put him in prison for four years for walking through the Capitol. So it's a good thing to keep him and Jerry in your prayers this weekend. It's a sad anniversary. But she'll be able to talk to the impacts and the whole issue of suicide among defendants. And we've also seen it with some of the police officers. So it's a timely topic. Next to her is Garrett O'Boyle, who is a FBI special agent, very special agent, indefinitely suspended. So he's one of the suspendables. And he has been through much as well, his personal journey from his suspension and his creds and faculties taken away to being homeless with his family because his property was seized by the FBI for a lengthy period of time.

And next to Garrett is Kash Patel, who needs no introduction, but I'll do one anyway, senior aide to President Donald J. Trump. Kash has a very unique perspective on the whole issue of the National Guard. You have undoubtedly heard a lot of propaganda around that issue, especially from the left. He can set the record straight, and that's one of the things I'm hoping that we go over. So welcome to everybody. It's funny that you should mention that, Joe, but this is the first question on my list

of questions here. And Cash may actually have to leave a little bit early, so we've sat him over there at the end. He's got like a, you remember there were pagers once upon a time. He's got one, and it's kind of one of those things in his pocket he might have to jump out. But so Cash, you know, we've covered this, of course, on Cash's Corner, the show that we co-host. But this is an important issue that needs to be revisited again and again because there's, you know, bizarre narratives that go in a very different direction.

The bottom line is what is the situation with the National Guard around before, during, and after the time of January 6th? Thanks, everybody, for being here, and thanks to EPOC for continuing to, you know, just put the truth first. It's really impressive for an organization that's a non-profit. People forget that. They're not the New York Times. You know, the funny thing about the truth is it doesn't change, only the fake news changes. And so on January 6th and January 4th and

January 5th we were in the Oval Office, I was Chief of Staff at the Department of Defense and I know you guys have all heard this so won't belabor it but President Trump had the foresight to preemptively authorize the National Guard. He said if you need ten to twenty thousand guard men and women go ahead use them wherever you want in the US. Roger that. You know we sent our We're going to be able to effectively authorize the National Guard. He said if you need 10,000 to 20,000 guard men and women, go ahead. Use them wherever you want in the U.S. Roger that. We sent our Department of Defense and chain of command into action, and as the constitutional law and Supreme Court and history require, rightly so.

You don't want uniformed military to be deployed into America just at a whim. So there's a check on it, and that check is not just a presidential authorization, but you need a request from the governing authority. Usually it's a state, but in this instance, it's the mayor, since it's Washington, D.C., and it's the Capitol Police and the Speaker of the House. So we dispatched the Secretary of the Army, who's in charge of the National Guard, days before January 6th, and it was a little shocking that Mayor Bowser and Speaker then Pelosi both declined. And so what were we to do? We had half of the equation, but we didn't have the leadership in the District of Columbia willing to secure the nation's capital in other areas. It was highly offensive, but tragically beyond that, it was improper

security. And it's been lied about ever since. Whether it's the Colorado case where I was the lead witness or any pleading about January 6th, they want to turn it into Russiagate all over again, essentially, and say, well, the only people that were at fault have to be Donald Trump and his administration. But in reality, as we've been able to put out, thanks to Epoch and this brilliant movie and so much other work, is that the president acted preemptively. Now the documents are out. Mayor Bowser's letter shows her in writing refusing the National Guard. Nancy Pelosi's Capitol Police timeline and her chief of police reported in Black and White Inc. that she declined the authority of the National Guard. And that's the story. I mean, just think, would we even be sitting up here if I had the ability

to put 10,000 National Guards men and women on January 6th for security as President Trump wanted so everybody could peacefully protest and we could not have the census loss of life and the tragic unconstitutional prosecutions of so many as it relates to January 6th. It's a fight we're not going to stop, but I think everybody, you get to go out there and tell the truth about the National Guard is just as critical now as it was three years ago. And Cash, I'm just going to follow up a quick question, because I'm worried we won't get back to it if we don't. Afterwards, though, there was an interest, after, right, on January 6th, actually, there

was an interest, as I understand it, in protection and mobilization of large numbers of people. So if you could tell me a bit about that as well. Yeah, well, afterwards, unfortunately, it became a political optics scenario. And on January 6th, when the security posture became too loose for the Capitol Police to contain, Pelosi and Bowser and everybody else started calling the Department of Defense and screaming at us, where were the National Guard? As if we could just pop our fingers and have 10,000 men and women pulled in from around the country, literally trained, equipped, guided out, and deployed. We did. I mean, this is a commitment to the Department of Defense's career officials.

On January 6th, we led the fastest coal start of the National Guard since World War II and the largest occupation of Washington, D.C. since the American Civil War. And that was done because we were readyC. since the American Civil War. And that was done because we were ready. We had the reps in sets. We had the commander in chief ready to go. And what they wanted was to turn Washington into downtown Kandahar because then they wanted the political optics, in my opinion. Then they wanted the no-climb fences. They wanted Humvee.

They asked us for tanks, which we said, no, we're not rolling a tank down Pennsylvania. They asked us for belt-fed machine guns on top of armored RVs. We're not doing that. But then you knew, to Jan's question, what they were thinking, political optics. And to this day, we're still talking about January 6th, not in the proper terms and I think we have to put the politicians in their place because they are the most responsible for the tragedies of January 6. One thing I'd like to add to that is during all of the action on January 6 after violence broke out the police chief, the Capitol Police chief, spent hours on the phone trying to get the wheels moving. And the way the Capitol Police is

structured, it's a creation of Congress. They have a three-member board plus the police chief that they have to go through, and they report up through the sergeants at arms and according to the then senate sergeant at arms the late michael stenger he asked his colleague in the house during the afternoon about the guard and he said don't bring it up pelosi will never go for it uh chief's son kept at it and eventually about, about 10 minutes after 2, he finally got all the authorizations he needed. But by the time they got there, law enforcement had cleared the Capitol building and most of the property. So the law enforcement handled it that day, but they were up against some really steep odds and opposition that it would be very hard to argue wasn't political. Thanks, Joe.

I want to jump to Garrett O'Boyle. So, you know, you're described as an FBI whistleblower. So, you know, before we continue, if you could just kind of summarize for us very briefly, what did you blow the whistle on? Well, there's a number of things, some of which are not public yet and they're going to remain that way for now, advice of my counsel. But considering the topic of the film, the main January 6th protected disclosure I made was in regards to a lead that I received where eventually I was told by FBI headquarters

who had the facial recognition software that I had a match on an alleged subject. And the lead I got, it stemmed from an anonymous tip, which in law enforcement, there's a Supreme Court case called Navarette v. California. It's very clear that as a law enforcement officer, you have to, if it's an anonymous tip, you have to substantiate some of the claims in the tip yourself before you can proceed with a case or with establishing your probable cause. And in this case, right off the bat, it was pretty clear to me that it was a vindictive anonymous tip. And because there was limited information and there was no proof whatsoever that the anonymous person who made the tip, they claimed that someone in the area of operation that I worked traveled to the D.C. area with a gun and with other people who were collaborating with him.

And it's like, okay, well, there's no proof of this. So as I'm trying to run this lead down, it was becoming increasingly clear. So this is like within the first couple weeks after January 6th. It was becoming increasingly clear, so this is like within the first couple weeks after January 6th, it was becoming increasingly clear that the FBI was all in on this, and they still say today, and they put a feather in their cap that it's the most extensive investigation

they've ever done, so bigger than 9-11, bigger than the mob, bigger than anything, and they laud themselves for that. But in my experience, almost all of those leads were very minimal and very, didn't have a lot to substantiate them. And in this particular case, as I'm trying to work it, I get this facial recognition match.

Well one of the first things I did when I got the lead was run the person's background, and that includes grabbing a driver's license photo. The most recent one was from 2018, so relatively current considering the time. And the person didn't have any hair, and they had gained some weight over time. And I'm comparing this to the photo they used to make the match. And the person in that photo had a full head of hair and was about 150 pounds lighter,

and I'm like, what's going on here? So as I dig and dig and dig, eventually I contact the person who made the facial recognition match, and I was like, hey, I just sent you the most current driver's license photo. Immediately that person's like, there's not a match here. And it turns out that somebody in my division which was the Kansas City field office grabbed this

driver's license photo that was about 25 years old and sent it off to the facial recognition people and said this is this is a guy that there was an allegation who was at you know part of the insurrection. And you can't do that. That's a Fourth Amendment violation. And so eventually I find out who that person is. I call them, and they just are, like, vapor-locked, saying to me, they told you you had a match. They told you you had a match.

But it's your case. You have to investigate it. So I end up finishing my investigation, and in the FBI, when you just get a lead, it comes through the FBI's guardian system. it's not a full-blown investigation yet in this case it was one of the longest reports I had ever written because I knew if I didn't you know cross every T and dot every I that this person may get reassigned to some other FBI agent and for all I know at this point they may

have but throughout that limited investigation, there was nothing indicating that this person was even in the National Capital Region. I ended up talking to the person, and I asked them, were you there? And they said to me that it doesn't matter where they were. They know that they didn't do anything illegal. And it's like, yeah, this is clearly a vindictive report. And I think we've seen a lot of that type of reporting coming from all sorts of people, even people overseas. Like you guys may have heard of the sedition hunters. A lot of them are not even in America. And then they're reporting on American citizens are going on the internet and staying up to all nights of

the hour to go after what the Germans called Untermensch. And even that topic is really substantial for me because the FBI sends you to the Holocaust Memorial Museum here in D.C. and the whole purpose is so you don't do this type of political persecutions against your enemies. Yes. Garrett, very briefly, so what has happened to you since you, I guess, started questioning? So initially, I thought I'm within the law. I'm going to Congress as I'm protected to do.

Well, that was foolish. And I was in the middle of a transfer from Wichita, Kansas to Quantico, Virginia. We had sold our house in Kansas. We had not yet closed our house in Virginia. We had our fourth daughter. She was two weeks old. The FBI was aware of all of this. All of our belongings were in storage. And I showed up on my first day to my new assignment and I was suspended. And they told me, well, we're not suspending you for being a whistleblower. We're suspending you based on an allegation that you were leaking information to the media. And so that's what they do.

They pull the rug out from under you and come up with some other reason to cancel you. And so in the interim, we were made homeless. We were living in my brother-in-law's RV for a time because we didn't have anywhere to go and we found out just this November another whistleblower came out and they were working on my internal case and they asked their supervisor why are they doing this to me because the FBI had already determined that I had not leaked anything to the media and then that person got suspended for asking that question. And the supervisor told this person that, I won't say it, but that they

were going to F the mother effer in regards to me and my family. And that supervisor is now retired and getting their pension. So it's been quite the journey, and we're still fighting. I'm still technically an FBI employee. So. I mean, these are. Let me add something to that for Garrett. I have had professional connections to the FBI for 30 years, 31 years. will hang out case or squad agents who do things that criticize or make management look bad. It is a culture that has a complete division between the working squad agents like Garrett and the people who volunteer to go into management and become squad supervisors in ASACs and SACs. I have watched this.

I've heard about it. I've discussed it with agents when I was working as an AUSA. I've discussed it with retirees who are all the way up to SACs themselves. It is a reality that case agents like Garrett live with, and once you step out of line, you're going to get hammered. Absolutely. I testified in front of the Weaponization Committee in May of 2023, and part of my testimony I said that if you try to shine a light

on the wrongdoings of the FBI, they will crush you, and they've attempted to crush me and my family. And I also want to add, Kash Patel and the Kash Foundation took care of my family in arguably the hardest time of my life. And we... That includes harder-than-combat deployments to Iraq and Afghanistan, and we were demonized for that. Cash was demonized for that.

I was demonized for that. And it's evildoers in the FBI. It's evildoers in your government that are doing these things. Can I make one more? Sure, Bill. Back up a little bit to what Cash was talking about. I had, in the first trial that I had for a J6 defendant, David Mahaffey, in late August, early September 2022, the first witness called by the government was Captain Ortega.

I want to say, U.S. Capitol Police, I want to say Ronald Ortega, but I could be wrong. It's Captain Ortega. Very impressive witness, comes in in his full uniform, African-American gentleman, sits down. He's there to sort of lay all the predicate foundation for the government's case about the security measures in place and the restrictive perimeter and, you know, the events of the day, sort of how they kicked off and where he was and what he was doing and his responsibilities and how he saw events unfold from a command perspective. All right.

You know, first witness, I don't really have a lot to ask him. I mean, it's kind of,, it's kind of Joe Friday testimony. Doesn't have any actual personal involvement within anything my client was charged with. But what the heck, you know, this is what lawyers do. So I got to cross-examine him. And I don't even have a real plan because he doesn't say anything that I really was that interested in. But it's a bench trial. Judge McFadden, figure, you know,

might as well get in the game, run a few plays, see what happens. And one of the questions I asked him, just spec off the top of my head, Captain Ortega, has the Capitol Police done an after-action review of the events of the day to try to evaluate the command decisions, what went right, what went wrong? And he was quiet, could tell he wasn't expecting the question. evaluate the command decisions, what went right, what went wrong. And he was quiet. He could tell he wasn't expecting the question. And he said, no.

This is September 2022. This is 18 months after the event. And I drilled, I was like, I could not believe the answer. There's been no effort to examine the law enforcement response to the arrival of the crowd and what could have been done better or what was done wrong? No. You're a captain. I mean, you're like 10 people down from the chief. Is anything planned?

Not that I'm aware of. It got to the point where Judge McFadden jumped in to ask questions. It was just so shocking that they would, at that point, they had not even taken a step to evaluate their own shortcomings, which kind of dovetails with Cash's comment about, you know, it was all about optics. They really weren't interested in what they had done wrong because from the perspective of the politicians in control, it had kind of turned out the way they had hoped. They got what they wanted. The Capitol Police were not prepared. They didn't have the numbers.

They didn't have the staffing. They didn't have the equipment. And they were overwhelmed by what they found. Could have been prevented. They were warned about it. But they got what they found. Could have been prevented. They were warned about it, but they got what they wanted. So let's jump to Jerry and Sarah. We'll start with Jerry. You know, we're beginning to get a sense here in the panel of the human cost of everything that's happened.

And we're three years on right now. Maybe, Jerry, if you can tell us your story and your nephew's story. My nephew, Matthew Perna, went into the Capitol on January 6th. He didn't hurt anyone. He didn't break anything. He was in there for 14 minutes, and what followed was 12 months of mental torture. He eventually pled guilty at the advice of his attorney, and I want to make note that the January Sixers are pleading guilty because they really have no choice. They're not going to get a fair trial in D.C., and they're not allowed to

move their trials outside of D.C., so they're pleadingading guilty which is just adding insult to injury. My nephew pled guilty against my advice because he just needed it to be over. And a week before his sentencing hearing he found out that they postponed his hearing a month and that the prosecution was looking to add a terrorism enhancement. And the reason that they wanted to add a terrorism enhancement. And the reason that they wanted to add a terrorism enhancement is because on a Facebook post for January 6th, he put a little American flag emoji and a bomb. And he thought going there was going to be a historical moment, it's going to be the

bomb. The bomb is the reason for the enhancement. He called me on the phone on a Monday sobbing. I couldn't console him. I could barely understand him. He was crying so hard. That Friday night, my brother called me and told me that Matt hanged himself in his garage. He was 37 years old. It was the worst thing that's ever happened to our family and to his father. And here we are two years later. It'll be two years this Sunday that this incident happened. My brother, Matt's dad, is in the poorest of health. He has declined something awful.

I had to decide whether or not to come to this because he's in such bad condition right now. It has torn families apart. It doesn't just affect the January Sixer. It affects everybody in their family and their friends. And what they did to him was just despicable. He basically should have had a slap on the wrist. My nephew had never been in trouble before January 6th. He was a kind-hearted person and this world is less brighter without him. I have been fighting

ever since. There is a bill in Congress right now, the Matthew Lawrence Perna Act of 2022. It was introduced by former Congressman Louie Gohmert and it was co-sponsored by Marjorie Taylor Greene. Marjorie is the only congressperson who would co-sponsor the bill. And that infuriates me that our congresspeople are sitting on their hands doing nothing. January 6th is the elephant in the room, and they don't want to discuss it. But the longer they don't discuss it, the more people are going to die, because after Matthew killed himself, Mark Angst killed himself, and then after Mark Angst killed himself, Jordan Meacham killed himself, 22-year-old kid last year. How many people need to kill themselves before people wake up and see what this DOJ has done to these people?

Sarah, before I jump to you, I want to get Joe to weigh in here. here if you can um and joe so one of the things that's come through in your reporting and some of these reports that we've had is that there's um a lot you know extended pre-trial detention periods for numbers of the defendants people being put in solitary for things that let's say are extremely atypical scenarios for for the use of that that of punishment. Can you kind of flesh that out for me a little bit, please? Yeah. Pre-trial detention, and I'm sure Bill can weigh in on this too, is supposed to be rare. I mean, you're presumed innocent until you're proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. Large numbers of January 6th defendants were held in pre-trial detention, including Colt McAbee, who had a federal magistrate judge in Tennessee chide the

prosecution for not having the evidence to justify keeping him, and he released him on his recognizance until trial. And that very day, they ran back to D.C. and got Judge Emmett Sullivan to put a stay on that until he could hold a hearing. And then he went through that, and Sarah's husband, the judge called him a terrorist in one of his written rulings. And he was supposed to be a neutral arbiter. So these types of things, the pretrial detention is supposed to be rare. We have gotten a lot of feedback from families about solitary confinement. They call it the hole in DC. It's got different names in different facilities, but that that's used to break people down. Or as retribution,

as Stuart Rhodes, the founder of the Oath Keepers found out, if you speak to the media, you will be punished for that and put into solitary. And now they've got something called diesel therapy. That was a new one on me. That's where they move you around within the Bureau of Prison System to seven, eight, nine, ten, more, sometimes a dozen or more facilities to shake you up. And so these types of practices are not what you think of when you think of American justice. And so those are, again, more of the hidden stories that the families are trying to get out. But maybe, Bill, you could talk about pretrial. Maybe we'll just get Sarah to talk about Colton and what you know at this point.

My husband is Ronald Colton McAbee. He was a law enforcement officer out of the middle district of Tennessee. He went to January 6th with a friend to hear President Trump speak. And he was at the rally and they went to the Capitol because there were supposed to be more speeches that were happening. And he found himself at the Lower West Terrace Tunnel, which waves of violence had happened at the tunnel. And he happened to be there at that time. And being a law enforcement officer, he saw that there was an officer on the ground. And he went to aid this officer. And as he's trying to help this officer on the ground, Roseanne Boylan is being beaten to death by Metropolitan Police Officer Lyle Morris. And he's yelling at the police, stop killing that girl. As he's trying to aid the officer on the ground, another officer comes up and hits him with a baton.

And he pops back up and he puts his hands up and he says, I'm helping. I know how to help. Let me give help. As he's trying to do that, he slides down the stairs with the officer because other protesters had pulled these officers' legs down. He's over top of the officer for about 20 seconds. He's communicating with the officer. He's actually telling the crowd around him, no, quit, stop. They were taking the officer's gas mask. They were calling my husband a traitor. The officer says, get off me, man. He said, I'm one of you. I'm helping you. The officer says, I know, I know, help me up. My husband rolls him to his side, walks him back up to the line of duty, goes to find Roseanne

Boylan, who they were giving chest compressions on. They pick her body up, bring her back to the line of duty for assistance, because that's what you do. You take people to the police when they need help. He starts to give her chest compressions, and they drag her away like a dead animal. The crowd disperses. He's standing there. They're really mad the police officer is seeing what just happened. He's standing there one-on-one with a third police officer that watched the entire thing go down. And he thanked him twice for his help that day. Thank you, man. Thank you.

I appreciate you. Standing there, his shoulder is broken. He's holding it. The crowd pushes up. This officer puts his arm around him and says, I got you, man. I got you. Just calm down. Seven minutes of his life doing what he was trained to do as a law enforcement officer. He's been behind bars trial, went to trial solely to try and get justice for Roseanne Boylan because he knew what he was facing. The government wouldn't even negotiate a plea deal for him. Seven to nine no evidence of Roseanne. Well, I'm sorry. My husband's evidence is Roseanne's evidence. Their stories are each other's stories. We finally got the evidence in. The audio was played. Didn't matter in front of a DC jury. Convicted on all counts. He will be sentenced next Thursday in Washington, DC. The government is asking for 14 to 17 years of his life

for doing the exact same thing that he was trained to do, that I know if I were to pick up one of his phone calls and say, would you do it again? He absolutely would, because that's an American citizen. That's what they are trained to do. But instead, they are demonizing these people. What the media says about him. Joe was the first one to write a good article about him. And it was a very scary time. It was a scary time. We didn't know what was going to happen to our family.

Our family was being destroyed at the hands of the federal government and they don't care. They continue to push this narrative so I am so appreciative to Joe and the Epoch Times for continuing to get these people's stories out because I want to tell you there's 13 almost 1,300 January 6 defendants almost 200 individuals locked up across America in different facilities serving anywhere from sometimes it's 10, 30 days, all the way up to the highest has been 22 years thus far. We cannot continue to allow this to happen. We have to be a voice for these individuals. There were four people that lost their lives that day.

My husband at some point will come home. Those four families are never getting their people back. Jerry's never getting Matthew back. We have to talk about this. It's uncomfortable sometimes, but it's important to be here. It's important to know these stories because each one is unique and we have the power to tell these stories. I just want to add something to that. You know, knowing that Sarah's husband will be put away in jail for many years,

and so many January defendants have been sitting in jail now for over three years, and they haven't even had their trials. And I know that if President Trump gets elected, we are going to have pardons. Pardons. Pardons sound so wonderful, don't they? But pardons are never going to bring my mat back. Pardons are never going to erase the awful, most despicable reporting on Google for every one of these January 6th. Google will live forever, even if they're pardoned. But at the same time, I want that pardon for Matthew, and I apologize

I apologize if this sounds so selfish but there's a very big part of me that is jealous because people like Sarah and the other family members of all the J6ers have something that I don't have I don't have hope because my J6er is never coming back to his family. And I feel ashamed to say that I'm jealous of them in a way. But if anybody in this room thinks

that this can't happen to you or your family member or your neighbor or your friend, you are sadly mistaken. And there are a lot of keyboard warriors on Twitter who talk a good talk. But until you start standing up for these people, these January Sixers who need your support, and I mean standing up, I mean contacting your representatives weekly until they're sick and tired of your phone calls. You've got to do something. This is a large group of people, but they need your support. They need it financially. They need it with your prayers.

They need it with your standing up in local meetings and places like CPAC and speaking out. Or else this could happen again. January 6th can definitely happen again. We're losing our country, people. You need to wake up and do something. Or else we're not going to have a country left. So, I'd like to jump to Bill here before we open it up for some questions from the audience. I've been hearing through different sources that there's still arrests that are planned to happen, and quite a few of them.

That's what I've been told. There's goals. I don't know the contours of this. What do you know about this? Well, I mean, all I can say is that there are arrests taking place every week, and this is a pace that probably extends back to September. That's when I began to notice, obviously, my phone rings. And there was a pause. There was a pause for about six or eight months. I think it started early in 2023. And I know from conversations with people that would know that the pause was because the court was simply saturated. It had more cases. It didn't appoint any new judges when all these hundreds of cases began to be filed. They didn't hire new staff. They don't have more probation officers.

You know, the District of Columbia Court is working with the same amount of personnel that it had on January 5th. And so at some point, a communication was sent to the Department of Justice to stop. You know, you've got a five-year statute of limitations. You don't need to arrest everybody and prosecute them, you know, in the first, you know, 18 months. And there was a pause. There was a clear period of time where there weren't arrests of any significant number happening. That changed in September 2023 just based upon my own observations. I don't know of a specific date.

But within the past two months, three months, it seems like, I mean, you're seeing six, eight, ten a week. And every day, every day you see two or three more. My own view, it's a political operation. It's just my personal opinion. The Biden administration is committed to continuing to keep this story front and center for purposes of the campaign. They want to continue to have that argument that some portion of the political opposition is actually a criminal element, and they use the branding of all these J6 defendants to essentially say, see, that sliver of the MAGA movement, they're insurrectionists and they're foes of democracy, blah, blah, blah. And they'll just keep it up because as long as they keep arresting people, they continue to have trials, they continue to have sentencings. We see there's now a particular account on Twitter that every Monday or every Friday puts out all the sentencings or trials for the following week. So it's there in social media, just a continual drumbeat that the process continues, the arrests continue, the convictions continue, the sentencings continue.

And it's – in my's, it's a, my view it's a political exercise. All right, so we have folks out there with microphone and we're going to be taking questions from the audience, a few, I think we can manage a few here. And we'll get, where's the mic? Okay, if you could pass it to the gentleman in the green hat, please. Oh, yes. Hi.

I was at January 6th, I went there because I go to a lot of Trump rallies, I went to see the president speak and I did march across the mall, walk casually, and I made it as far as the front of the Capitol building, but I never went into the building. But in the aftermath of that, the FBI has been to my house twice. Maybe I was foolish. I talked to them because I wanted to express my point of view. And then that summer, I got audited by the IRS for the first time in my life.

And I received a letter that I treasure, because in the letter they told me, this is in 2021, they told me they determined that in tax year 2016, I had underpaid my federal income tax by $10. And the form letter went on to explain that if I didn't make good on this in a matter of months, I could face criminal prosecution. I never went into the Capitol building. And people should also know, I went down there and paid for everything with cash. I wanted to stay under the radar, yet they found me.

And I asked them how they found me, and the younger agent, there were two of them, the younger agent spit it out. He goes, well, you mentioned on Facebook that you were going down there. So Zuckerberg works for the FBI. But I mean do i have to should i be afraid i mean i thought maybe my ordeal was over but they've been to my house twice i've been audited you think they could round me up and arrest me do i have to lose sleep at night well i think you know the government started

the arrest with sort of the low-hanging fruit. They have all this video evidence, so where the identity of the defendants was clear on the video, they would get tips from people who were familiar with the person reflected in the still image that they would post online. They had body-worn camera, which showed the actual interactions between certain individuals and officers. That's all the easy stuff. That's the easy gathering of the evidence. Once they have your identity, they have all that stuff. Then you have all of the CCTV camera inside the Capitol.

That's easy. Once they identify you, once they have your green hat on camera, they can just follow you along your merry path inside the Capitol. Obviously, that's not you, but that's just the Capitol. It becomes more difficult for them to make their case when they don't have the CCTV and they don't have the body-worn camera of the officers. Now they're relying principally upon third-party shot video. Just people with their cell phones that then gets posted on Facebook or gets posted on YouTube or wherever and they're using facial recognition software. Matthew Graves came out recently and said that they have an intention to continue, where appropriate, to indict people who were on the grounds, even if they didn't go into the Capitol. There are two sets of misdemeanor charges that they've been using. The one set essentially relates to being in restricted grounds, which is outside,

and then the other is the famous parading count for being inside. Separate misdemeanor charges for the two. So if you didn't go inside, you're off the hook for the parading count, but you potentially are on the hook for being on the grounds if they can identify you with sufficient video evidence that places you on the grounds. I always thought for a long period of time that that was kind of like the dividing line, that they were basically going to limit it if you went into the building. That kind of hooked you in, and they were going to prosecute you on the misdemeanors for going in the building. But if Matthew Graves is to be believed, he's saying now we're going to transition and do people who were only outside. So, you know, get my number before we leave, and if they give you a call, you give me a call. Thank you.

Okay. Let's do this, the lady in the purple here, please. Hi, I was wondering if this can be traced all the way back to when we were holding people in Guantanamo Bay without charges. This is what they're doing to these people. They're holding them for so long. Did this government or this FBI or DOJ, did they start even earlier with getting us used to holding people forever? Well, I think it's sort of, you know, there are inaccurate rumors that make their way around social media that I try to deal with as often as I can. Everybody that's in custody has got charges filed.

Everybody that's in custody has been indicted. There's just nobody held in custody while they're in indictment. There are rules about the timing, and these people all have lawyers that seek to enforce the rules and make the government comply. I had a very famous case involving Luke Denny where he got lost in the system and was not in court or charged for four months when I came to be his lawyer. I was like, why is this guy, there's no indictment. He's been in custody for four months. He only got 30 days to indict him. So there are, so that is, it's not accurate to say

that there's people still in custody without charge. There are people in custody. Some have been in custody for two, I don't know if anybody's actually been in custody for three years yet, but we're coming up on some February, March arrest 2021 where they haven't had trials yet. So you do have a few. And on this point, let me divert just a second to go back to something that Jan had mentioned.

I have my law practice has been exclusively in federal court for 32 years. I don't do state court cases. I've never appeared in a state court anywhere on a criminal case. I was a federal prosecutor for 21 years, and I've been a criminal defense lawyer for almost 11. So that's 32 years only in federal court in criminal cases. the conduct that is at the heart, the actions of individual defendants that are at the heart of these cases, anywhere else in the country, on any day other than January 6th, they don't get detained, with a few exceptions. They don't get detained. You only detain somebody when there's no combination of conditions of release that can mitigate

the risk of flight, the person's gonna you know take off to avoid the case, or to mitigate the danger to the community if they're released. But that danger has to be explicit, has to be something that can be described. It can't just be, oh you know that person, you know they may be a bad guy that we're afraid of. It can't just be, oh, you know, that person, you know, maybe a bad guy that we're afraid of. It can't be that. It has to be more specific. And my opinion in this regard is based upon at least 2,000 cases in my career. It just wouldn't have happened.

I'm dumbfounded by some of the justifications that I've heard from judges and the government and probation and have been shocked by some of what I thought were egregious misrepresentations of the evidence to justify the tension at the outset. The most obvious and outrageous to me was Colt McAbee. I represented him for a period of time. I worked hard to get him out of custody. I was shocked that we kept losing the battle to get him out of custody. Because he's a law enforcement officer. What's the danger of letting Colt McAbee out of custody pending trial? There is none that could ever be accurately described.

I want to see. We're going to do a few more. Someone has a question for Garrett. Let's, the lady over here. My name is Mary Sturgeon. This is my son Isaac. He just went to prison because of January 6th, less than a month ago. And this is January 6th defendants who are in prison with him. And we appreciate all of you.

My son said, do not worry what they do to me, Mom. Please speak out. Don't cower anymore. As you can hear, I'm a little bit soft spoken, but I'm trying to get louder. And I told him, don't worry about what they might do to a 65-year-old woman for free speech. I am curious if the appeals department is any good with the DOJ because we used a public defender, but I guess I'm wondering, do I need to fear the FBI? But I don't need to cower anyway. It doesn't matter. None of us should cower. We still are the land of the free, allegedly, but it's up to us to keep it that way.

As for if you need to fear the FBI, I think we all need to fear the FBI now. And I think of my former colleagues and they're afraid. They're either, if they're not afraid, they're in on it and they'll gleefully come for you, even though you're 65 and just the mother of a January Sixer. And the ones who maybe somewhere deep down have a noble purpose, that noble purpose has been ceded because they have bills to pay and they have mouths to feed, just like I did. And they've forsaken their oath. We all made an oath to this nation and this nation's constitution.

And they forsake it every day when they put that badge on because I hear from these people, people I used to work with, people in other field offices, and they know and see the same types of things I saw, the same types of things Steve Friend, Marcus Allen, Kyle Serafin, and others. They see it every day. But they don't come forward. That's a violation of their oath.

And I'm not saying they're all guilty of it. Yeah, maybe there are some agents who don't pay attention to current events, although they should. They're in the FBI. They should be paying attention to what's going on in this nation. But maybe they're assigned to some, I don't know, Hungarian mob somewhere, and that's all they focus on. And maybe they're doing good work, sure.

But I think that's pretty minimal. And most of them see the things that are going on, and they stay quiet. And that's wrong, and it's wicked, and it's evil. And it's contrary to what it says in Romans 13 about government not bearing the sword in vain, and government being a deacon for God, and to punish the evildoer. And I'm not even saying that every January 6th should just go free. There are some who did break the law that day. But this witch hunt that the FBI is going on and participating in, it is contrary to Romans 13.

It is contrary to their oath to the Constitution. It is contrary to what law enforcement is supposed to do in this country. Like Sarah's wonderful husband, he was doing what you are supposed to do as a law enforcement officer. So the oath breakers in law enforcement, they need to go. And it's up to us to point them out. It's up to us to call them out. Even if you become indefinitely suspended forever without pay. And that's okay. This is the path the Lord has me on now. I don't know why it's

me. But when I testified, I said, here am I, send me. It comes from Isaiah 6, 8. It's all we can, it's all we can do. We must. So we're going to have to finish up pretty quickly here now because we thank you for that. Maybe I'll give a quick final word to Jerry and Sarah and then Joe will finish up. I just want to thank everybody for all of their support. I couldn't have gotten through these past two years without the support of the American public. I wish my nephew had had the support that I get. He would probably still be here.

I do want to specifically thank Patriot Freedom Project, who has been a huge source of support to me and my family. I want you to know that organizations like them are there for the January Sixers to support them because they are people who are standing in the same shoes as the Jay Sixers. And I wish my nephew had had a support group. Maybe he would still be here and he would be helping others. I'm sure of it. But I ask you to keep an eye on the Matthew Lawrence Perna bill. Let's hope and pray that it becomes law so that these types of constitutional violations won't happen to someone else in the future. I just want to remind everybody that faith and fear can't coexist.

And if you have faith, then your faith must outweigh your fear. Is it scary? It absolutely is. When people ask us how we're doing, we tell them one day at a time, because that's how often things can change. But what we have is the Lord on our side, and we know how we're doing, we tell them one day at a time because that's how often things can change. But what we have is the Lord on our side and we know that we're right and we will stand in the truth because the truth does not change. And so my prayer for you all as you all pray for us during this trying time is that the Lord will give you the words and give you the strength to fight for these American patriots that their lives have been absolutely turned upside down. I do believe that they were chosen for such a time as this, but we also were chosen for such a time as this. This is a battle of good and evil right now. So it's a war and what we are fighting right now is one of the battles. So while you all pray for us, know that

we are praying for you. And when you think about them, say something, talk about it at your family table at dinnertime, talk about it at events like this, because it has to become the norm for us to get the truth out. So thank you to the Epic Times, special thanks to Joe for not being afraid to cover this when, when we are up against the beast, we are, we are in are up against the beast we are we are in the belly of the beast right now but this is not going to last forever I believe it's a second to last sentence in our film where I mentioned that hope does not disappoint. It comes from the New Testament.

And there is hope, and I am dealing with research on some of it right now. Often people say, what can we do? Well, I think one thing you can do is contact representatives like Barry Loudermilk from Georgia, who chairs a committee that is investigating January 6th seriously. They haven't come out and said much about it. Other congressmen like Thomas Massey is investigating January 6th. They have investigators working, probably about 5% of the size of the January 6th select committee. But let the Speaker of the House know, Mike Johnson, that you support the investigations. You want to see evidence put out there, including every second of video that they possess without redaction. But the politicians need to know that this is not a losing issue, that people care about this, and they want to see the truth

win out. And maybe that will bring courage to more of them. But have hope, because there are investigations going on, and you will be hearing about more of them in the near future and that should bring hope to everybody here please give this panel a big big hand You've got a narrative out there that's very powerful. Do you think domestic terrorism is really as big a threat as it's being made out to be? Not that I've seen. I needed to dig deep to get a true look at January 6th arrests and prosecutions. My job is to look at the darkest things happening in the world every single day. The real question is, were the acts of violence against police officers in the other riots

taken just as seriously? How did that impact you? Were you hurt, guilty? Shocking. It's clear that they hate me. I was so shocked when I heard the news because this isn't the Colton McAbee that I know. They're just going to identify you on video, arrest you, and then figure out what the evidence is after that. I get a facial recognition match, and these two people look nothing alike.

You can't do that for any investigation. We came home. We found this attached to our rotor. I'm gonna grab some photos of this. These are American citizens being held without due process, having their constitutional, their God-given, and their human rights violated. I'm not sure why anyone's suggesting I did something that's worth a 20-year felony. That's worth a 20-year felony. That's totally insane. What kind of strain has this been on you and on your extended family? Your whole life changes drastically.

It changed our whole way we approach life. You feel like Big Brother is watching you. As soon as we were in the news, we had approximately 70% of our income cut within that first year. They told me that my security clearance was suspended and I was escorted from the FBI premises. If you are slapped with that label by the highest power in this country, it's not just name calling. You have to stay away from the word patriot now because that's a terrorist organization. It's my right as an American and I'm going to fight for my husband. We have to keep fighting so that they have a hope and a future. This video is previously unreleased and was not shown to the defense. His own

lawyers did not have. It's going to change narratives no matter what your political perspective is.