American Thought Leaders - I’m Suing Harvard for Violating the Civil Rights of Jewish Students: Shabbos Kestenbaum

Episode Date: December 5, 2024

Following the Oct. 7, 2023, massacre in Israel, universities throughout America experienced a sharp rise in hostility toward Jews.“I have lost every single non-Jewish friend I had at Harvard—every single one,” said student activist Shabbos Kestenbaum.A proud Orthodox Jew and a former self-described “die-hard liberal,” Kestenbaum endorsed Donald Trump and voted Republican for the first time in his life, believing that the Democratic Party had systematically abandoned Jewish Americans.“As an Orthodox Jew, I grew up with the ideals of: You are an American and proudly so, and you’re Jewish and proudly so. The two were never contradictory. They were quite complimentary. ... They very much influenced each other. As I said in my speech at the Republican Convention, Jewish values are American values. American values are Jewish values,” says Kestenbaum.Harvard University came under particular scrutiny for its failure to combat anti-Semitism on campus, ultimately leading to the forced resignation of its president, Claudine Gay. Today, Kestenbaum is suing his alma mater, alleging federal violations of the Civil Rights Act, under which, due to Trump’s 2019 executive order concerning Title VI, Jewish students are now protected.“When we filed our lawsuit in mid-January, Harvard’s response was not to apologize. It was not to acknowledge the reality of anti-Semitism. It was not to tell us what they were going to do. They filed a motion to dismiss with prejudice, meaning they were asking a judge not only to toss out our lawsuit but to make it so that no other Jewish student in the future would be able to hold them accountable for anti-Semitism,” says Kestenbaum. “To this day, they have not articulated a single policy that would prevent what happened to me from ever happening again to any student, Jew or not.”Views expressed in this video are opinions of the host and the guest, and do not necessarily reflect the views of The Epoch Times.

When we filed our lawsuit in mid-January, Harvard's response was not to apologize, it was not to acknowledge the reality of anti-Semitism. They filed a motion to dismiss with prejudice, meaning they were asking a judge not only to toss out our lawsuit, but to make it so that no other Jewish student in the future would be able to hold them accountable for anti-Semitism. Following the October 7th massacre in Israel, universities throughout America experienced a sharp rise in hostility towards Jews. I have lost every single non-Jewish friend I had at Harvard. Every single one.

Harvard University came under particular scrutiny, ultimately leading to the forced resignation of its president, Claudine Gay. Today, Harvard alum Shabos Kestenbaum is suing his alma mater for federal violations of the Civil Rights Act. To this day, they have not articulated a single policy that would prevent what happened to me from ever happening again to any student, Jew or not. This is American Thought Leaders, and I'm Jan Jekielek. Shabbos Kestenbaum, such a pleasure to have you on American Thought Leaders.

Thank you for having me. I appreciate it. So you're suing Harvard. You you for having me. I appreciate it. So you're suing Harvard. You're an alumni, alumnus. Before I get into what this is all going on, it has to do with anti-Semitism. Just tell me a little bit about your background. Sure. I mean, I'm a first generation American. I'm one of seven, which for an Orthodox family where I come from, that's not particularly unusual. I was the first in my family to go to an American graduate school, so my parents were pretty proud. It was Harvard, especially on a full scholarship. They were very much a typical American success story. When my father moved here 30 years ago to start a small business, he could not have imagined that

his son would have reached what in American society we would deem the upper echelons of academia. As an Orthodox Jew, I grew up with the ideals of you're an American, and proudly so, and you're Jewish, and proudly so. The two were never contradictory. They were quite complementary. I never saw them opposing each other, and on the contrary contrary they very much influenced each other. As I said in my speech at the Republican convention, Jewish values are American values, American

values are Jewish values. Jewish values are American values and American values are Jewish values. God bless the United States. God bless the land of Israel. God bless, protect and return the American hostages in Gaza now. And after high school, I studied in the old city of Jerusalem for three years in an all-male yeshiva.

Studied Talmudic law, ancient Jewish philosophy, living two minutes away from the Al-Aqsa Mosque, the Church of the Holy Sepulchre, the Western Wall. So not only do I come from an Orthodox family, but I very much pursued my religious identity. After yeshiva, I decided that I wanted to continue my study of religion, but from a totally different background, from an academic background, a pluralistic background, a non-sectarian background. And lo and behold, I got into Harvard. Well, you mentioned that you were at the Republican convention, but you're not a Republican. I'm not a Republican.

I spent my 18th birthday registering to vote as a Democrat. In fact, if you want to go even farther back, when I was nine years old, I bought a Hebrew Barack Obama yard sign that I convinced my dad to place in the front lawn. By the age of 12, I was knocking on doors for Obama's reelection and then for Cory Booker's eventually successful Senate campaign. I was at the 2016 Democratic Convention in support of Bernie Sanders. In 2020, I volunteered and voted for the progressive candidate Jamal Bowman. I marched at the Supreme Court when Roe v. Wade was overturned.

I am happy to compare my progressive credentials any day of the week. I am a diehard liberal through and through. And then October 7 happened, and October 7 was a wake-up call to me and other American Jewish liberals because the liberal allies, the progressive allies that we have entrusted ourselves to, at best abandoned us and at worst became our adversaries. You know, I remember after October 7th, having a serious discussion with a Harvard classmate

of mine who went to the Women's March in 2017, who voted for Kamala Harris because of abortion rights. And she seriously tried arguing with me that the nails that Hamas lodged into the private areas of Jewish women on October 7th doesn't actually constitute rape. To me, the story of October 7th isn't actually what Hamas did. Hamas is very clear in their charter that they believe in the destruction of the Jewish state from the river to the sea. In fact, the head of Hezbollah, Nasrallah, who was just killed by Israel, he says quite openly, it would be great if all the Jews lived in Israel, because it would be a lot more convenient to kill them in one location.

So October 7 was horrifying, but it wasn't surprising, because Hamas and Hezbollah have said they want to do this. To me, what was the most shocking was the most progressive, educated, intelligent, upper echelons of our society. Those who introduced themselves with their preferred gender pronouns, those who take knees for Black Lives Matter, were championing and praising and glorifying the murder of 1,200 Jewish men, women, children, and babies.

That part was also shocking to me, the response, because I sort of imagined there would be this massive outpouring of support. And there was, and there was an outpouring of support, but this other side was not something I frankly remotely imagined. Before I continue, I actually want to ask you about this. So you explained you're very, very progressive in your vows. On the other hand, you said you're a conservative Jew. That doesn't necessarily make sense to everybody here. It doesn't. I'm an Orthodox Jew, meaning I believe very strongly not only in the principles of the Hebrew Bible, but that the Hebrew Bible is a living, breathing document

that governs our daily lives. For example, I don't shake the hands of unmarried women. I pray three times a day. I only eat kosher. I observe the Sabbath. And yeah, I remember being made fun of as early as eight or nine, because then I also had these very liberal, very progressive views on abortion, on gay marriage, on immigration, on the economy. And yeah, it was always difficult trying to navigate that tension between being staunchly observant in my religious life, but also being relatively progressive in my political life. And ironically, it was October 7th that sort of helped me with that tension because I realized, well, I'm not really progressive anyway, if this is what progressivism means. So what happened at Harvard that caused you to launch this lawsuit?

You know, I can sit here and give you and listeners a laundry list of incidents. I could tell you about the Jewish student who was spat on for wearing a keep at Harvard. I could tell you about the Israeli student who was asked by the professor to leave her class because her nationality made others uncomfortable. I could tell you about the physical assault at Harvard Business School. I could tell you about the Harvard employee who vandalized our hostage posters, challenged me to debate him in an underpass as to whether Jews were behind 9-11, and then taunted me with a machete. You know, that's just four incidents off the top of my head. But most disturbingly, it became obvious that there is a double standard when it comes to how Harvard treats minority students and how they treat Jewish students. There was an obvious sense of discrimination, a sense of inequity,

and I can think of no greater damning indictment on the state of higher education in the United States than in order for Jewish students to receive that equity, to receive equality and justice. What do we have to do? We have to resort to a court of law. We have to sue them. We have to hope and pray that a judge recognizes the validity of our claims. And by the way, it's critical to remember, when we filed our lawsuit in mid-January, Harvard's response was not to apologize.

It was not to acknowledge the reality of anti-Semitism. It was not to tell us what they were going to do. They filed a motion to dismiss with prejudice, meaning they were asking a judge not only to toss out our lawsuit, but to make it so that no other Jewish student in the future would be able to hold them accountable for anti-Semitism. Not only did they do that in January, when we filed an amended complaint in May, Harvard did the exact same thing. To this day, they have not articulated a single policy that would prevent what happened to me from ever happening again to any student,

Jew or not. So in a nutshell, what does the lawsuit allege? In a nutshell, the crux of our argument is flagrant violations of Title VI of the Civil Rights Act. President Trump in 2019 signed an executive order that clearly articulated and mandated that institutions, especially institutions that receive federal funding, cannot discriminate based on certain criteria, including national origin. Judaism under the law because of President Trump is now seen not just as a religion but also as an ethnicity. It's true, we're not just a religion, we're also a people. Because of that classification, we can now plausibly go to a court of law and say,

well, the university is just an obvious violation of their federal obligations. We also have breach of contract. We have unfair enforcement or discriminatory enforcement of school policy. And I encourage all of your listeners, I encourage the American people, read the lawsuit. It's publicly available online. You'll realize this has absolutely nothing to do with free speech. It has nothing to do with anti-Zionism. It has everything to do with naked, unvarnished Jew hatred.

And that's why we're going to win, because Harvard cannot defend the facts. They cannot defend the fact that for three weeks, Jewish students were being followed and intimidated and bullied on their way to class by encampment leaders who were living in tents on campus, calling for an intifada, calling for the destruction of the Jewish state from the river to the sea. They followed us to class, and Harvard knew about it, and they chose to do nothing about it. And that's why we'll win. So while we're at it, anti-Semitism, anti-Zionism, how do you see these two things? I'm a religious Jew, meaning I pray three times a day.

The direction I face when praying is Jerusalem. Jews have been doing that for 3,000 years, regardless of where they find themselves in the world. In those prayers, I mention the return to Zion. I mention the return and the rebuilding of the Jewish temple, the ingathering of the exiles, dozens and dozens of times in those thrice daily prayers. Almost the entirety of the Jewish calendar

is focused on events that happened in the land of Israel. Almost the entirety of the Jewish calendar focuses on the land of Israel lunar calendar. Our lives as religious Jews are inherently tied to the land of Israel. And when you negate, when you deny the inherent connection between Jews and Judea, the Jewish people and the Jewish homeland, what you have done is you have taken a core part of my religious identity, you have taken a core part of my religious identity, you have taken a core part of my religious expression, and you've tossed it aside.

Being Jewish inherently means an attachment to our land. In fact, the very first commandment in the Hebrew Bible that is given to the Jewish people revolves around the Jewish calendar, revolves around the Jewish holidays, revolves around the land of Israel itself. So anti-Zionism, which is the denial of Jewish sovereignty over their ancestral homeland, is unquestionably, irrefutably, objectively anti-Semitism.

So one of the ways that the work that you're doing, and frankly many others are doing on American campuses and so forth, is being challenged. One of the ways it's being challenged is that you're actually infringing on the freedom of speech rights of some of these other students. So how do you respond to that? I think it's critical for the American people to realize that the Foundation for Individual Rights and Expressions, which is an American NGO that ranks and monitors American universities' commitments to the free speech, they ranked 248 American universities as to their commitment to the free speech

and the First Amendment. Harvard was ranked 248th. They ranked dead last. This is a university that historically, consistently, and routinely disciplines speech they don't like. They have rescinded the invitations of controversial speakers who are deemed transphobic, who are deemed racist, who are deemed misogynistic.

They expelled 12 admitted students for posting sexist memes in a private WhatsApp group. They have trigger warnings and safe spaces for incoming students. So if you want to play the game that free speech matters, great, free speech matters. The problem is Harvard has literally never taken that approach unless it is speech that is used to vilify Jewish people. So I don't buy this argument that Harvard has suddenly discovered a vested interest in the First Amendment. Having said that, if you do want to protect free speech, I'm all for it. A Harvard employee threatening a student with a machete is not free speech. A Harvard student being physically assaulted at the business school is not free speech.

A Harvard student being told by her professor to leave the class because of her nationality is not free speech. Almost nothing in our court case, almost nothing that we file complaints about has anything to do with speech. Almost nothing in our court case, almost nothing that we file complaints about has anything to do with speech. I believe that Harvard students should have the freedom to express their moral bankruptcy, their sheer stupidity to the world. I'm very glad that the business world has noticed and that they are not going to hire certain students for exercising their free speech and exposing their stupidity. And I don't think Harvard should abridge that free speech. But don't pretend that Harvard has ever cared about free speech.

And don't pretend that what Jewish students are fighting for has anything to do with free speech. Before October 7th, there was a swastika placed in one of the undergraduate dorms at Harvard University. Harvard never acknowledged it. There were protests outside of the Harvard Hillel, the main institution of Jewish life on campus. Before October 7th, Harvard never acknowledged it. There were protests outside of the Harvard Hillel, the main institution of Jewish life on campus. Before October 7th, Harvard never acknowledged it.

Harvard never has acknowledged antisemitism until it became so embarrassing, so undeniable, and so obvious to the rest of the country. Claudine Gay's Exhibit A, on live TV, in front of Congress, under oath, she cannot definitively say that the calls for genocide against Jewish people would violate Harvard's code of conduct against bullying. And let me add, now that we have a new administration, whether I'm given a position at the Trump

White House or not, I am going to work my damn hardest to make sure that the American taxpayer is not paying one penny for this political indoctrination, for this blatant anti-Semitism, and for the anti-Americanism that has become ubiquitous at Harvard, at Columbia, at MIT, and across the Ivy Leagues. I mean, she has been dismissed, though. Have things changed at all? Currently, Claudia Engage is being paid $900,000 to retain her position as a professor. It's true she was fired from her position as president, but one, that's because she plagiarized the very limited academic output she ever had. And two, we have to keep in mind that after her disastrous congressional testimony, the Board of Trustees voted unanimously to support her, saying that she was the right person for the job.

What's the status of the lawsuit now? We're one of the first cases, if not the first case in American history, pertaining to the civil rights violations of Jewish students on a college campus that is going to trial. Harvard's double motions to dismiss with prejudice were rejected by the judge, Judge Richard Stearns of the Federal District Court of Massachusetts. And I'm very proud to say we are going to trial, we are going to win, and we are going to set a legal precedent to hold every single American institution of higher learning accountable. They have gotten away with their political indoctrination, they've gotten away with their double standards, and they've gotten

away with their anti-Semitism for far too long. I want to just touch on the free speech aspect and the calling for a global intifada. That's not free speech. Where's the line in your mind? It is free speech. Obviously, it's free speech. One thing to keep in mind is universities are not obligated under the First Amendment, which is why Harvard University, in particular, has consistently had laws, internal policies, against speech. They do it the whole time.

The only exception they have ever made is calls for the destruction of the Jewish state, is calls for the ethnic genocide of Jewish people. That is the only time they ever had an exception. It's the only time they showed concern or consideration for free speech. So again, if Harvard wants to be an institution that champions free speech, freedom of thought, academic exercise, and the exchange of intellectual ideas, great. But it literally has never been that university. What has happened at Harvard in your mind?

I think two things happened at Harvard. One was the total capitulation to the mob, a radical, loud minority of students who consistently interrupt classes, who have consistently targeted Jewish students, who have consistently called for the eradication of the Jewish state, who have consistently violated all-time place and manner restrictions. And rather than disciplining these babies, Harvard capitulates. Harvard acquiesces to all of their demands. When Donald Trump was elected president on Tuesday,

you know the reaction of Harvard University the next day? Well, at my alma mater, they had sunshine the puppet, give therapy classes. They had open office hours and free massages. I believe they also canceled a significant amount of their classes. This is an institution that just coddles the dumbest of our society, and it's a damn shame that the American taxpayer is obligated to pay for this. Can I just say that one more time? Because I think it's just insane. The reaction of

Harvard University, which is allegedly the most prestigious university in the world, hired a puppet, Sunshine the Puppet, to give therapy to students who were so affected by their candidate not winning in a democracy in the United States in the 21st century. This kind of coddling, as you're it. It often is associated with progressive policies and progressive ideas. Are you still progressive? If progressivism is requiring a puppet to navigate your emotions after an election loss, if progressivism is calling for the eradication of the only democratic country in the Middle East, if progressivism is denying that the lodging of nails in women's private areas by a terrorist organization

doesn't constitute rape, then no, I'm not a progressive. You also endorsed Trump, if I recall correctly. Don't hold it against me. What was the reaction of your friends, your circle? I have lost every single non-Jewish friend I had at Harvard. Every single one. What do you make of that? I mean, it's a sad commentary on the next generation of American leaders.

They're so unable to discern, to appreciate, to believe that people can think differently from them. When I spoke at the Republican convention, I did not endorse Trump. I took a lot of pains to not endorse him. I got a lot of flack from the Trump campaign. I tried to be as nuanced and reasonable as possible, but at the end of the day, I don't think you can reason with a mob. There are other Jews writing, for example, in the forward. I have Mzev Michel, for example, writing, your narrative doesn't comport with most of the Jewish population at Harvard, for example. How do you react to that?

The author of that article neglected to mention that he was a leader during the student encampments, that he led rallies of Globalize the Intifada, of Free Palestine from the River to the Sea. I don't speak for the Jewish community at Harvard. I don't speak for Jewish Americans. I speak for myself and those who've entrusted me with their stories. And I can tell you, based on those who've entrusted me with their stories, based on those who I've testified in front of the United States Congress with, that they, we, had a rude awakening after October 7th.

We feel completely abandoned by the progressive left. There was another article in The Crimson, for example, that was suggesting that your actions or presumably this lawsuit, maybe other things, were also actually fostering a more hostile environment for Jews. So after October 7th, I helped volunteer for a student-run organization called the Institute for Multipartisan Education, where we had a nonpartisan chat where people could send us their questions or request information on the Israel- Palestine conflict. And I did that for numerous weeks. I volunteered in Israel with Muslims and Christians to dig graves for soldiers, to deliver supplies to army bases, to play guitar for injured

civilians, Muslims, Jews, and Christians alike. So if he believes that in some way inflames tensions, then I would argue the problem isn't really me. It's probably the one who's accusing me of doing that. So you believe that you will come out victorious in this lawsuit. Let's say that that is the case. What's next? I have been privileged to be given a platform. It's a limited platform, but it's a platform nonetheless. Regardless of where the lawsuit goes, regardless of my professional ambitions, I will always dedicate my life to the betterment of American Jews and the United States and

the call for Western civilization and democracy. I think there is no more worthy and valiant fight than that and we've seen both of those things be denigrated and attacked on our college campuses and that's what I'll always fight against. We reached out to Harvard University and they said, quote, antisemitism has no place on our campus and across the university we have intensified our efforts to listen to, learn from, support, and uplift our Jewish community. They added that Harvard is engaged in ongoing efforts to, quote, strengthen and clarify rules for use of campus spaces and disciplinary policies and procedures. You know, so you recently accompanied President Trump to the Ohal of the Lubavitcher Rebbe. Tell me a little bit about why you did that, maybe what the significance of it is as well.

So I helped accompany President Trump to the Ohal of the Lubavitcher Rebbe on October 7th, the one-year anniversary, of course, the largest massacre of Jews since the Holocaust. We had asked the Kamala Harris campaign if she wanted to come and send prayers to the hostages still in Gaza. Her campaign said no, which I think is pretty telling. President Trump showed up. And I think that's why he won a significant chair of the American Jewish vote. He showed up.

He met with me. He met with an Auschwitz survivor. He met with a family of a hostage. I mean, what more can you ask from a presidential candidate? And then that night, he flew back to Miami to have a second event to commemorate October 7th and to promise that this would never happen again. So we can disagree with some of his policies. We can disagree with some of his rhetoric.

But you cannot disagree with the fact that when the Jewish community needed a leader the most, he showed up. And it was incredibly emotional. It was incredibly powerful to see at that point a former president of the United States, now of course a president-elect of the United States, meet with Jewish students. Ask them what their experience is like. Tell a family of a hostage that we're going to get your son out and you have his eyes. You know, that's powerful. And Kamala Harris could have done the exact same thing if she cared. Maybe just for the benefit of our audience, what is the significance of the Ohel of the Lubavitcher? Yeah, the Ohel of the Lubavitcher Rebbe is the resting place of Menachem Mendel Schneerson,

who was arguably the greatest rabbi in the United States of the 20th century. He is the leader to hundreds of thousands, if not millions of Jews worldwide, even with his passing. He is someone who believed that the best way to create leaders is by empowering people, especially young people. He is someone who, during the Crown Heights riots of 1991, he told Mayor Dinkins that there are no both sides. There's one side. There's no Jewish community and black community. There's one community, the American community, the American people. He championed a call for universal brotherhood and a call for truth and religious tolerance and values. So to be at his resting place with the former president, I can't think of anything

more powerful. You mentioned the increased numbers for President Trump among Jews. I think it was something like 90% of the Orthodox jury, for sure, voted for Trump. But across the board, it was somewhere between 60% and 80% actually voted for Harris, from what I heard. And I've heard different numbers, so I don't know which is correct. How do you account for that, given everything you just told me? So first of all, President Trump did receive the most Jewish votes of any Republican nominee since Ronald Reagan. It was a profound victory. And within the Orthodox community, earth-shattering numbers, 90% upwards of the community voted for him. In Pennsylvania,

he received 43% of the Jewish vote. In New York, he received 43 percent of the Jewish vote. In New York, he received 46 percent of the Jewish vote. In Jewish counties and suburban areas in California, he received anywhere from 60 to 80 percent of the Jewish vote. And that reflects that Jewish Americans who have historically been Democrats, historically been liberal, we were sick and tired of the hypocrisy. In terms of those who continue to vote for the Democratic Party, I think it's important to point out that the Jewish Policy Institute has repeatedly shown that if you're a Jewish American and

your top concern is Israel, your top concern is American antisemitism, your top concern is the release of the American hostages in Gaza, overwhelmingly you supported Trump. If you're an American Jew and your top concerns are abortion, your top concerns are climate change, you overwhelmingly supported Kamala Harris. I certainly don't disrespect those who decided to vote for Kamala Harris. Where I do disagree and where I do have a point of tension or contention is when people say that you

and the Democratic Party would somehow be better for American Jews, would somehow be better for American Jews, would somehow be better for the state of Israel, would somehow release the hostages. I mean, that to me is just an absurd argument. Batya Ungar-Sargon has made the case that there's this sort of phenomenon of the American liberal Jews being members of the professional class, which seems to be voting more on the Democratic side versus the rest. Do you think there's this class divide situation like Batya would argue, or how do you view that? Look, I'm not a political scientist. I don't know how to analyze polls. It's certainly possible that there exists two classifications of American Jews.

What I will say is I'll stick to what I know best of young American Jews on college campuses who have been affected by anti-Semitism. Anecdotally, the overwhelming majority supported President Trump. So your name has been floated, I've heard, for being this anti-Semitism envoy for the U.S. Any interest in such a role? Look, it would be an honor to serve in the Trump administration. More importantly, it would be an honor to serve the American people. And whatever capacity that is in, whatever position it eventually takes,

it would truly be an honor to do the important work that we know we need to do and be of service and of help to the American Jewish community, who frankly have not had strong advocates in the White House for four years. Any final thoughts as we finish up today? I would just say that October 6th, I was a nerd writing mediocre research papers in the library. I still am a nerd, but for whatever reason, I was given some type of platform. And I may not be the most polished speaker. I may not be the most articulate, but I will do whatever

I can in any capacity to help advance the cause of American democracy, of Western civilization, and of Jewish values. Well, Shabos Kestenbaum, it's such a pleasure to have had you on. Thank you very much. Thank you all for joining Shabos Kestenbaum and me on this episode of American Thought Leaders. I'm your host, Jan Jekielek.