American Thought Leaders - Inside Beijing’s Darkest State Crime—And Those Fighting to Expose It | Raymond Zhang

Episode Date: February 7, 2026

In 2015, a whistleblower came forward to The Epoch Times to share an unthinkable story.Years before, while a resident doctor at one of China’s largest military hospitals, he was summoned one day with other doctors for a “secret military mission.” They were brought before a 17-year-old young soldier—bound so tightly that the ropes cut into his flesh—and ordered to pin the boy down and extract his kidneys and eyes.The young soldier had gotten on the wrong side of his army supervisor, and while imprisoned in military jail, military command discovered that he was a blood and tissue match with a high-ranking superior in need of an organ transplant.“When I looked at him, I saw fear in his eyes. His eyelids were moving. He was alive,” recounted the whistleblower Dr. George Zheng.His testimony is featured in the harrowing documentary “State Organs,” directed by Peabody Award-winning filmmaker Raymond Zhang.A powerful film that exposes the brutal reality of China’s forced organ harvesting industry, the documentary follows two families’ decades-long search for their disappeared loved ones. It’s a story of tragedy and brutal inhumanity, but also faith and redemption.It seems the film hit such a nerve in Beijing that theaters in Taiwan received threatening letters and even bomb threats ahead of film screenings.In this special episode, I sat down with Zhang to hear about his incredible journey of making this film and what he uncovered along the way.“State Organs” is now streaming on Apple TV, Amazon Prime Video, YouTube, etc. Views expressed in this video are opinions of the host and the guest, and do not necessarily reflect the views of The Epoch Times.

One doctor asked me to take his eyeballs. When I looked at him, I saw fear in his eyes. When I looked at him, I saw fear in his eyes. His eyelids were moving. He was alive. He was alive. The boy killed in this film for his organs was a 17-year-old army soldier. In this episode, I sit down with the award-winning filmmaker Raymond John.

the director of state organs, a powerful new film exposing the brutal realities of forced organ harvesting in China. My sister loved singing and danced well. My sister was kidnapped by police. It was finding the original recording of the Yun that inspired me to start the film at the very beginning. It's a story of redemption of a surgeon who once participated in these crimes. His omnipresent fear and never ending pressure, suddenly vanished.

He felt like he found a form of redemption. It's the powerful journey of a victim's family, from grief to strength. When we get to heaven, we will see each other again. On the spiritual level, the further you distance yourself from the CCP and the closer you are to the divine. to the divine, the safer and happier your life going to be. This is American Thought Leaders and I'm Yan Yek. Kelek.

Raymond Chang, such a pleasure to have you on American Thought Leaders. Thank you for having me, Yang. So you actually have made three documentaries. Two of them have been focused on forced organ harvesting. The first of course was Human Harvest. It won the Peabody Award, which made it the darling of the Canada Media Fund. And then it also had this incredible reach through an online film festival where, you know, literally millions saw it. The second film was particularly close to my heart.

It's the film Avenues of Escape. And that's because the film is about this underground railroad that was bringing Chinese prisoners of conscience out from China through the Golden Triangle to Bangkok so they could get UN refugee status and get resettled in free countries. And my wife and I back in 2005, 2006, were actually working on this railroad. So it was wonderful to have a documentation of that in a documentary, very powerful, and I'd recommend that to everyone. So tell me briefly how going through the process of making those first two documentaries inspired state organs. In 2006, when I first heard about the organ harvesting, I was shocked but not that surprised. Born and raised in mainland China, I knew CCP had killed about 60 million to 80 million

Chinese people over the past 70 years. So I thought I already knew those things. But in 2016, when I first met Dr. George Zheng, I was utterly shocked. The degree of the cruelty of the organ harvesting is beyond imagination. The boy killed in this film for his organs was a 17-year-old army soldier. Since he was under 18, his parents spent about 10,000 Chinese yuan to get him into the army and hope he could get a better job opportunity in the future. Because he was from a countryside, he didn't know how to please or bribe his supervisor.

He got a conflict with his officer and was put into a military jail. His blood type matched that of a high-level military officer. So the army decided to kill this boy for his two kidneys and one eyeball. His parents probably never know what happened to their kids. One doctor asked me to take his eyeballs. When I looked at him, I saw him When I looked at him, I saw fear in his eyes. His eyelids were moving.

He was alive. He was alive. Dr. George Jung told me it's so demonic. The position cut into the body, the blood sprang out, and when he took out kidney, the vessels are still positing and trembling. normal person in that situation would go insane. Overwhelmed with the emotion, a couple times he rushed into the washroom, turned on the faucet, and cried down there for a long, long time.

The interview stopped on day one because of emotional breakdown. But after the interview, he told me with tears in his eyes, he had been living in the extreme fear every day over the past 17 years, being scared day and night since there's a secret military operation. He always felt he was being hunted. Someone was chasing him, attempting to assassinate him. But after the interview, to his surprise, this omnipresent fear and the never-ending pressure suddenly vanished. as if his life and soul were relieved and redeemed. He felt like he found a form of redemption.

When I looked at Dr. George John's eyes, I saw a mixture of complex emotions of fear, worry, but also the courage and determination. Until today, Dr. George Jung is the only military surgeon. who directly involved his organ harvesting and has this moral courage to stand up to expose his most secret state crime. His courage and determination deeply touched me.

Something that was really incredible in the film was you actually have this, what I call a voice from history, you know, from 2002, Yun Jong. You actually have her original voice, her testament. It was her It was the original

I was the film at the time the rung the

It was finding the original recording of the Yun that inspired me to

to start the film at the very beginning. My sister loved singing and danced well. My My sister was kidnapped at police.

This film features the original recordings of Yun, right before she was kidnapped by the police, and eventually forcibly disappeared in the police custody. After her husband was killed while in detention, she shared his story and distributed flyers in Qingdao China. This made her a target by the police who handed her down. At about 2 a.m. on April 19, 2001, she left messages for her sister in Toronto, Canada, recounting her family's plight. Her speech was somewhat hurried, as she has felt that her situation was extremely dangerous. because the policemen were all at her door.

In the recording, she said, her family's experience was only the tip of the iceberg in the persecution in China, and hope the international community could help to end this persecution. And this was her last voice left of the world and was her only wish. only wish.

The film also features a policeman who participated in this persecution. You tell me about him. Sure. A police officer on guard was deeply moved by the steadfast fate of the Falun Gong practitioner. In the Dong-Veyneung-Gin-Zou, in 2009, this is a teacher, this is a teacher,

just as a teacher, in this, in this, he's over the shrew is more, our inking there are a ,

just a bit of being, to bea, it's, so much, and, to do it, to do,

to, there's, we've, We've had to have a one-year-old to his sentence and over the same over-sixthous several shang-baw, and then-cuin, and then.

This time, it's a local-o-banking office, but it's a very a very important of a very, one, one, one,

a general-eastern and a and one, and a second-duty degree of to get-the-suff- system, and then,

At that we, we had a hand hand in a hand in front of the front of the hand in front of the ground, we'd have done any ma'iose. In the shunuched, in, a knife, a shot, was punded out,

and then, that was, oh, a bigel, a child, said, "'Farland, "'You're "'a'

"'You're just "'you can't "'and you can't "'are we're "'for the "'in' really "'in' by you're "'the person,'

"'the, the, "'jewewed a year "'and then, I looked my head, and I looked at our our leader's eye, the leader's, the leader's, it's a deep-chewed.

I always, but I've been, but they're, they're, it's really, really, it's really, and in the

, long as long as the, your shun-p when you're in, your heart, and then

this time, it's, it's, He felt in the instant I feel I'm sorry to, I'll just to them. I'll just about them. He felt profound respect for them. His reflection and repentance brought him the redemption.

The female practitioner who was killed held on her belief until her last moment, awakening the conscience of many, similar to how Jesus saved two thieves beside him before his crucifixion. For those involved in the persecution, as long as there is a trace of conscience, there's still hope for them. The weakening of their conscience become the process of saving themselves. Raymond, of course you know that I'm completely with you in this trying to expose more and more people, especially people who are making decisions in our societies about this issue.

And we've already seen how the lack of action from free countries around this issue when the felon gong were initially targeted over decades, that it seems to have now shifted also towards the Uyghur populations as millions of people were incarcerated in the camp. So I think you have a really good point in saying that this is something that needs to be dealt with quickly. Let's talk about a couple of the characters. I found this documentary particularly powerful in that you get to know a few people very well that are connected to the issue. And of course Michelle is living in Canada, you know, with her kids and it's her sister Yun who has disappeared in China. Well, so tell me a

little bit about how you found them and tell me a bit about them and their story. This is the journey of the weakening of the victim's family. Michelle Zhang didn't know how to explain what's going on to her children. If the country and society can do this, what hope is left? She saw no hope. Michelle was once an atheist. She didn't understand the energy practice.

But gradually came to understand it and eventually he improved. embraced the spiritual practice. This is the journey of awakening where she found hope through the despair. And then we have her father Jim John. Professor Jim John, a victim's father, was an military officer who served the CCP for most of his life. Spending 18 years searching for his missing doctor, going to various government agencies, police stations, labor camp only to face evasion, cover-ups, intimidation, and eventually the death threat. There is no point in living. I have no way out. During this 18 years, he went from fully trusting the CCP to recognizing his easy to recognizing his evil.

and lives along the way they uncovered a most secret state crime and a grassroots movement that inspired the nation and then the war Kauchong City Council has received a bomb threat for its plans to organize a screening of state organs a documentary on China's government-run organ harvesting operations the threat said several explosives had been put in the City Council building and they would explode at 5 p.m. on Tuesday if the event wasn't publicly cancelled. So Raymond, explain to me some of the challenges that you faced with screening this film, especially in Taiwan. I understand there were bomb threats and even death threats and, you know,

a multitude of challenges. Until today, there are more than 120 death threat letters. in Taiwan. When I heard the news, my first concern was the safety of the audience. After the local police conducted thorough investigation, they found no explosives in the cinema. This became clear that all those emails were sent via VPN from outside China. And this confirmed this is a typical intimidation of the United China. tactic used by the Chinese Communist Party, aimed at disrupting the normal life of Taiwanese people. City Council Speaker Kang Yu Chen says the screening will continue as scheduled, adding that she is not scared of the threats.

A meeting will be convened to ensure security on the day of the event. So what was the reaction of the people? Taiwan news agencies believe that this film hits the most sensitive nerve of the CCP. Some legislators believe that this film is an expose of the most secret state crime in China. So from what I understand, even the Taiwanese president actually got threatened as a result of showing this film. Can you just clarify for me why? Here's a story from Taiwan. When we held a press conference in the Legislative Yuan in Taipei,

a legislator said with emotion, In 2006, two young people in this very same room held a press conference to expose this crime of organ harvesting. and 18 years later, these two young people became Taiwan's president and vice president. In response to the PRC government's in response to the PRC government's escalating persecution and unlawful imprisonment of Falun Gong practitioners, and the shocking reports of torture, live organ harvesting,

and appalling violations of human rights, 52 members of this House have united to sign a motion condemning these atrocities in the strongest possible terms. On behalf of the Legislative UN, we call upon international organizations to launch an immediate and independent investigation to expose the truth, stop these crimes and protect innocent lives. The characters in this film symbolized various roles played by people, both in China and around the world, during this ongoing genocide. We live in a time where great good and great evil coexist. This page of history will be turned over soon. I hope when we look back, None of us will have any regret.

We all have done what we should and what we could. And so during the film, you actually experienced your own personal transformation. So tell me about that. Before producing this film, we have agreement on the team. We hope all the participants will benefit from the process. of producing, distributing, or promoting the film. And how can we achieve that? Chinese saying goes,

art reflect the artist. The work of art often shows the true inner world of the artist. For example, Zhang Da Qian, famous Chinese painter and a calligrapher. Before painting the Budisawa, he would wash his hands, change the clothes nicely, and meditate. And after completing the painting, he would write Zhang Da Qian paint with reverence on the artwork. With that in mind, I paid close attention to my cultivation of moral characters and cultivate it, the kindness within myself.

I feel I have a cleaner and clearer mind. At the same time, I feel true freedom that every artist dreamed of. A true freedom from inside out, a feeling that I never have experienced before. To my humble understanding, the true freedom means being full. free from sinful desires, being free from complaint, and being free from selfishness. Only then can you be your true self and express yourself freely. That's an amazing process to go through as you're making a film. I'm very interested in your own journey that you described, right, of personal redemption.

So yeah, tell me about that. Producing this documentary is also a journey of self-redemption for myself as well. Born and raised in mainland China, and I thought I had a clear understanding of the CCP.