American Thought Leaders - She Escaped North Korea 3 Times. Half of Her Family Didn’t Survive | Grace Jo

Episode Date: August 14, 2026

Grace Jo was born in North Korea and nearly starved to death as a child during the country’s devastating famine in the 1990s.Her father crossed into China in search of food for his family, only to be tortured and die after returning to North Korea. Her grandmother and two younger brothers died of starvation. And her oldest sister disappeared while searching for food. The family suspects she became a victim of human trafficking in China.Jo still remembers that her grandmother’s dying wish was to eat a baked potato. It was a wish the family could not fulfill.At six years old, Jo first crossed the Tumen River into China with her mother and sister. In China, they lived in hiding—ever fearful of being sent back to North Korea. Jo was repatriated twice before finally escaping North Korea for the last time.Her story is a haunting account of survival, loss, and hope that shows the brutal reality of life under North Korea’s regime and the determination, resilience, and sheer luck it takes to escape it.In 2008, with the help of a missionary, Jo, her mother, and her older sister made it to the United States. She became a U.S. citizen in 2013.Today, she is the founder of the Broken Chains Foundation, formerly the Grace Jo Foundation. And through the Dissident Project, she speaks regularly at schools and other venues, sharing her story to educate young people about the realities of totalitarian and communist regimes.Views expressed in this video are opinions of the host and the guest, and do not necessarily reflect the views of The Epoch Times.

At just six years old, Grace Jo fled North Korea with her mother and sister, crossing the Tumen River into China. I remember for almost 10 days straight, we were just starving and drinking cold water only. My grandmother passed away by starvation, and her last wish was to eat one baked potato. My father, he passed away while he was looking for food, and his crime was he brought a bag of rice from our distant relatives in China, and he crossed the border without the legal passport. For 10 years, her family lived in hiding in China,

repeatedly forced back into North Korea. We always have to hide our identity because we don't want anyone to find out that we came from North Korea. Each moment is a very dangerous moment for us. It was just whether die or leave moment. And each time I will say it's a miracle of God. When people hear North Korea, very often,

The first thing that comes to mind is missiles, nuclear weapons, Kim Jong-un. But personally, I would like to ask Americans to think about North Korean citizens. We are people. Our goal is just very simple. We want our freedom. This is American Thought Leaders, and I'm Yan Ye Kelleck. Grace Jo, such a pleasure to have you on American Thought Leaders. It's my great pleasure to be here.

Grace, you escaped from North Korea. You have a truly unbelievable story. Tell me your story. How did you get out? Yes, sir. So it's a long story in short. The first escape happened was when I was six years old. It was back in 1998. I was able to cross the river with my mother's help. My mother, she was carrying me at her backpack. And my mother was holding my sister's hand. So three of us were able to cross the river by half swimming and half walking. And we crossed the river only about 30 minutes. And then we finally reached it to the land of China. And that was the beginning of our journey. And we were wandering in China for 10 years. And we were seeking help and we were seeking refuge. But because Chinese government is not allowing us or recognizing us as refugees.

So we were forcefully sent back to North Korea multiple times. And thankfully, the UN and United Nations were recognizing our family as refugees, so granted us as refugee status, and we were able to escape the dictatorship regime back in 2008. And we were able to flew with the flight from China to America. And we finally found freedom in the United.

America. I've interviewed a number of people who have escaped North Korea. And it strikes me that, you know, crossing the river, obviously very difficult. You made it across into China. But even being sent back, in some cases when people are sent back, they're killed. Right. Just tell me, dig into this story for me a little more. Because I think that for us living in a free society, it's difficult to understand how it works over there. And I want to kind of explore that through your experiences. Yes, sir. So for my family, actually, it was very close to the moment that we will sentence to forever, for a lifetime in North Korea. And probably my life will be ended up differently.

And my life could be living in a couple of years in the political prison camp and due to the hardship I probably already died. Another path it was front of us was public execution as a whole family but we were very lucky we did not end it up there. We finally found another chance and then was able to escape. The main help came from the Korean American missionary. His name was Philip Buck and he was able to bribe the six officers from North Korea at the time and were able to rescue our family back in 2006 and it was our last like attempting to escape our North Korea at the time so with the bribing with the like a 10,000 US dollars bribing money our family were able to change the

documentation and be able to release from the prison if that was that help didn't arrive on time probably our family ended up differently that yeah I cannot really imagine if that happened to our family. Tell me what life was like in North Korea. What made you leave, try to leave that first time in the late 90s? So back in late 90s, I had a big family member, like eight family members in the family. I had two younger brothers. I had two older sisters, grandmother and father and mother.

But my memory, when I was six years old, was every day we were cold and hungry constantly. I remember for almost 10 days straight, we were just starving and drinking cold water only. And we were able to collect water from the water stream next to our house. And we were very lucky to have that because many people, they didn't have water resources at the time too. So we were able to collect water, bring it home, pour in the big jar, and then little girls and boy, we will drink water from the big jar every day. And adults in the family, like my father and my mother, they were fighting every day to look for food. And my grandmother was helping little children in the family. And my 10-year-old sister and 17-year-old sister, they were always go to the mountain in the morning when down comes.

They will wrap their feet with the plastic and wear the shoes trying to protect their feet from the snake or water. And then they will come home at late night with the bags of wild vegetables. So our daily food was relying on the wild vegetables, tree barks. And I also remember some of the tree leaves that we can consume. Whatever we can consume from the nature, we tried to collect everything. But that didn't help. At the end of 1998, June, my grandmother passed away by starvation, and her last wish was to eat one baked potato,

but my family at the time, we were not able to provide that as well. And my father, he passed away while he was looking for food, and his crime was he brought a bag of rice from our distant relatives in China, and he crossed the border without a legal passport, And that became the illegal and crime. He was tortured. He got beaten so bad in the prison cell during his interview from the officers. So when he was transferring from detention center in the countryside to the city for the legal trial, he passed away on a train.

But the government just noticed us with a single word and say, my father was criminal and he got passed away. So with that heart-breaking news, my mother decided to leave our home. But last straw was right after my grandmother passed away. Actually, six officers from our hometown visited our family and kind of telling us to leave the village. And the last words they said was, if we don't leave the home by 15 days later, or within 15 days, they said they will come back and check. and if we are still living there, then they will burn our house down. So that was last words warning from our government officers.

They're supposed to protect us. They're supposed to provide food for us and house for our family, but they denied our citizenship, and they were kicking us out from the village. So my mother said, hey, this is not the country where we can rely on. So she decided to leave our home. So it took like three days and almost four days for us to reach the border and cross the border to China. So this was the river that you're talking about now. The Tumur River is the border between China and North Korea and almost all the North Korean defectors.

We have to cross that river to cross the border. Wow. You basically had absolutely no choice. Well, for North Korean people in North Korea, we don't have a choice. We only have obedience. We only need to follow whatever they tell us. As adults, my mother and my father,

they have to listen to the leaders or the government officers. So we don't have any freedom to choose or to make a decision in our country. When your mother decided to cross that river, I mean, there's a good chance that you're not going to make it? There are so many, sir. Actually, each time when we cross,

our heart is like a shrink into a really tiny little nut. Because each time when we cross the border, we have to hide under the bush, and we have to look around and observe around and make sure there's no soldier will catch us behind us. And after we thought that's safe, then we will start to move quietly and slowly and officially.

Otherwise, if an officer, whoever guarding the border, if they're watching us or if they found us, they always allowed to shoot us at any time. You must have been a very disciplined five-year-old. I was.

I think my mother, she was very strong and strict woman in the family. So I remember my brothers and sisters, we never get wild in the house. We always trying to act. And before act anything, we're trying to watch it around us and obey and just be good girl

and good boy in the family. Otherwise, we will not able to survive each moment. You, after the river, you kind of went into the mountains, if I understand that correctly. Yes, sir. So the journey is actually, after we locked out our log cabinet, in the countryside and my mother, she actually making us line up in the front of the house and observed the scene and look at the sky and it was a very clean nighttime full of stars. And she said one word to us, but at the time we did not understand, but after I become

adult, I finally understood what that means. So she told me that boys and girls look this scene and remember this scene, this is your home, This is your origin. No matter where you go in the world after you grow up, don't forget this is your origin. So I did not know because after we escaped our home, we always have to change our identity, hide our identity, and lie to the people or friends

that we came from different hometown in China or we escaped from different country or we came from South Korea. We always have to hide our identity because we don't want anyone to find out that we came from North Korea. And when I was 7 to 12 years old, I was actually believed that I was the same girl or same people as other Chinese girls. Because we were talking same language at the time. We were eating the same thing and we're closed the same thing. I didn't really realize the difference.

But when I was 12 years old, we got caught in China and we forcefully repatriated. traded to North Korea. So at that time I realized, okay, I was born in North Korea because I am North Korean citizen, I shouldn't be same as other girl. We don't have any rights. So that was the first time I realized the difference between North Koreans and Chinese citizens.

And each time when we escape, we have to walk, unpaved the road, we have to hide in the mountains. We will, of course, starve, and we will manage ourselves. to get to the border and then cross the border to China. What happened to your other siblings? This is one of the heartbreaking news for our family to hear back in early 2000. So my oldest sister, she got missing before we crossed the border for the first time.

Back in 1998, after my father passed away, my mother, she was tortured and delivered the premature baby at eight-month-old. And then my grandmother was very old and barely moving. So my 17-year-old girl became the breadwinner in the family. So she went to the village and the city to look for the food. And her last word was promised to us and said that, Mom and sister, I will be back with the food. The latest will be the midnight today or tomorrow midnight.

But that promise never fulfilled. And it's been almost 26 years, and we don't know what happened to her. And each time when we got caught and sent to back North Korea, we always looking for her news and asking people and relatives. But we were not able to hear any single word about her. So the last conclusion is she probably sold into human trafficking, and she was not able to escape. So she was not able to come back to our country. or to us. What about, and so you and your sister went with your mother across, what about the others?

Yes, so that was my oldest sister and my two younger brothers. Actually, the youngest brother after he was born in prematurely, about two months later he died by starvation. And because my oldest sister got missing and my mom left home to searching for missing sister, And then that searching journey took almost two months. And during two months, my grandmother was still alive at the moment. And my 10-year-old sister, she was carrying baby, go to the village and begging for milk and food. But that's only short term.

For the long term, we were also going to the meal work and collect leftover corn skin powder, make porridge and feed the baby. But of course, there's no nutrition at all. So baby suffered for two months with the nutrition and he died. And another brother, he was four years old at the time. And when my family, my mom and my sister, he was prison at the time.

So my mother asked one of the lady in the village and asking her to watch him for five days. And we promised that family that my mom will be back and bring him with her. But that promise didn't. fulfill as well because after we crossed the river to China there's a hury water flowed and then high security reasons and so many reasons she couldn't go back on time so two months later we sent a messenger like with a

strong gentleman with the money to look for my brother but the we sent actually two messengers but they both came back with the heart-breaking news which was the family was who looked watching him for a a week almost a month and a half but he got kicked out from the family he was walking around the village looking for sisters and mom and one of the lady in the village was pity on him and took him inside of the their house provided one bowl of porridge but after he drank that porridge he never woke up so that's our younger brother's story and by the the time we already lost a father, grandmother, my oldest sister got missing, my

youngest brother already died in starvation and the only brother also died with that situation so it was very heartbreaking for us to hear it when we were in China. It's you know it's very very thank you for sharing this with me. It's it's you know really hard to imagine the realities that you're described for most of us here. You know, we live in such a land of plenty. What's it like being here when you think about the reality in North Korea? Well, when we arrived in America back in 2008,

and actually one of the reporters asked us, and we responded to them that said, well, we feel like we came to heaven. And of course, many people made fun of it. But still, I feel like it's heaven. compared to North Korean people who are still living in there. It's because we are full of materials. We have freedom here.

We have freedom of speech, freedom of movement. We can do anything that we wanted to do here, but in North Korea nothing was able to do. And people now there's still this moment. There are people are dying by starvation. Do you feel like the people in this country maybe don't fully appreciate what they have? I think so. I will not be able to tell on behalf of American citizens but even my family and myself after I came to America it's been

almost 18 years now and I feel like I am spoiled right now so I can I started to compare something and if it's not happening that what I wished for then I start to complain and when my mom hears and she said well just think about North Korea, just think about your childhood, be grateful. So, and then I will be wake up and say, hey, yeah, that's, that's right, that's right. I should be grateful and thankful and I should have become complained about it. Well, so I understand you don't want to, you know, sort of say Americans are bad or don't, you know, all this, I get that. I'm not, that's not what I'm asking about. It's more like, well, how about this, you know, what would you say to Americans who feel

like they have it really bad here, right? Even some people have difficult times in their lives. A lot of people struggle. People have suicidal ideation. There's all sorts of difficulties, right? But I guess perspective is helpful. You understand. I'm trying like, what do you say to people that, you know, think they have it really bad when you kind of, you understand a quite extreme version of what it's like to have it really bad? Well, I think perseverance and for our family somehow when the challenges come to us we don't think about giving up first we always thinking what can we do to overcome that challenge we always think that and of course there are so many different

challenges that we almost get close to the give-out moments and we of course heart-breaking and disappointed and all the moments comes when we come to America during the resettlement. But the core is the belief as a Christian that also give us the courage and prayer and not giving up. And we always believe that there's a way we can go through. I think that's positive belief that made changes when we face challenges and challenges. comes to us. Because I, you know, initially when we were speaking, I was thinking to myself, my goodness,

they tried to get, they went three times, right? They escaped three times, but each one of those times carries a massive risk. Like I just, I don't feel like I know because I've spoken with many people in North Korea, I've read enough about the reality of what it means to cross the border. A lot of people just don't make it. Most people don't make it when they even tried across it one time. You guys went three times. beginning to understand why you went three times because of what you experienced, right?

But can you frame that for me a little bit? Like you you guys were pretty serious about getting out in a way that you know most people don't even get the opportunity. Yes and be able to successfully escape three times is very lucky as the thing in our life and I'm very grateful for God leading us a path meet great people and And I think when we meet those people, even in North Korea or even in China, we're very grateful for those people who helped our family. Without them, probably we won't be able to get here. Some people, they fed us, some people they provided shoes or clothes, and some people actually took us by riding a car from point A to B safely. because from North Korea, a gate to the border is very challenging.

So someone must be helped my mom to lead the direction. And then when we get to the border, of course, it was a very dangerous moment because after we crossed the border, we realized there were two soldiers were catching cat crawfish in the Tumont River, but there's a curve in the river. and then after we crossed the river to China, they were just turning the curve. Even we were late for five minutes,

they will see us, and we probably already got caught. And then the second time when we crossing the border, it was nighttime, and my mom had to bribe the soldier, and we agreed to pay the high money and then be able to cross the border. So, like, each moment is a very dangerous moment for us.

It was just whether die or leave moments. and each time I will say it's a miracle of God. That's the only word I can describe. Well, that's one of the questions. Like, do you feel providence in this? That was going to be my next question. And clearly you do, right? You see the hand of God in this.

So now you actually work to support North Korean refugees. That's like the center sent. Tell me about what you do now. Yes, sir. Well, right now I live as a, American citizen life and I'm mother of two dogs but I'm still thinking about two daughters two dogs two dogs I have I don't have children okay but I'm still thinking about my home country my younger brothers who died starvation and my grandmother

who passed away and my ultimate goal is trying to visit my home country in the future with the freedom but now what we can do we always thinking about that And after I found the freedom, I graduated college, and now I have a home and family here. But there are so many people. They are not able to express their hunger. They are not able to express their lack of freedom. And they're not able to find freedom

because of high border security right now and economic got so changed right now. So crossing the border only cost almost $13,000 US dollars, which for North Korean people is almost impossible. for us to provide that money to the brokers. So for whoever stock in North Korea, they're still suffering and we know what's happening there. And it's very hard for us to ignore that and not telling the world and asking for help. So we, my sister and I, we founded an organization called NK in USA back in 2008,

and we worked hard until 2019, but because we both were like health issues, and personal issues, we close it down. And now we came back with a foundation called the Gratio Foundation. And I'm hoping to help more people in North Korea, but as a young girl, it's very limited. So I'm asking the community and help to work together to make changes in North Korea. And not only North Korea,

these days I'm realizing there are so many people in the other country, they have refugees, and they're facing similar challenges because the government and leader made the wrong choice and that the government become the socialist country and the people are suffering. So my heart always goes to people who have a similar background like our family and still suffer.

Then so many people they give us chances and help and that's why I'm here and I'm survived. So I would like to be the one of the person who can help them in the future. So I'm hoping to help a young generation from North Korea or to the same country like Venezuela and other countries as a refugee background. And if they want to study hard in America, if they want to become the bridge, I want to be the person who can reach out to them and be able to help.

So we can become the bridge because I believe young generation, we have to study and prepare. so then we can become the bridge between the country that's isolated and be able to connect to the world. So that's our current goal and hope, like a hope for the organization. So recently there's been a number of different surveys done that show that a lot of young people in America, I think it's more than 50% have a very positive view of socialism. What's your reaction to that? I feel like young generation we needed to learn more about the outcome of the socialist countries. North Korea is a great example, but it's so limited information we can collect.

But right now we have a different country. They are suffering and their economy is collapsing because they are socialist countries. The policy itself on a textbook when we read it, it looks beautiful. Maybe it's doable. But in reality, it's not possible. So as a young people in America, we should learn history and we should be open-minded and be able to hear more of those outcomes from the refugees and from those people who already went through that history.

So then when we become the leader, when we're making the choices, we can make a correct choices for our country because freedom itself is not given by free. Our ancestors in America they fall for the freedom, right? So there are so many blood already shed to this land. So nowadays, we can enjoy the freedom. And my country, we did not have that strong ancestor who can fight for freedom. So right now we are suffering there. So hopefully in America, young generations in the future, we can protect the freedom. for our next generation. So I'm educating young students through this term project,

and I'm traveling high schools in America and share our family's story and my life challenges stories to them, so then young people, they can be aware about the human issues, human rights, and the socialist and dictatorship worlds, so then they can make right choices. Excellent, I'd love to sit in on one of those, one of these days, that's very, that's wonderful that you're doing that.

This is, I think, one of our big challenges is, uh, I think people have been taught not very well around what the outcomes of socialism and communism instituted in societies, basically. I can tell you're very grateful to be here. Um, I feel the same way. I'm, I'm actually also an an immigrant here. But I'm from Canada, so more similar country, although Canadians don't like to admit that. Tell me the name of your organization again, and if someone wants to get involved, how can they get involved? And are you looking for people? Yes, sir. So as an American citizen, there are many ways can get involved.

Of course, first is a prayer. Please put North Korean refugees on your prayer list, so then God can hear. us and be able to help in these individuals. Secondly, I am also working as a public speaker through the Distance Project. It's Distantproject.org. And we have a similar background refugees and human rights activists working as speakers. So public schools and private schools, they can book the speakers through that distant project.org. So then the company will book for their tickets and hotels. and hotels and speakers can go to school and provide the stories like first-hand stories from the speakers

be able to educate the young generation and the second thing is my personally I would like to get involved more to the community and be able to help students so I own Grace Joe Foundation so that's also be able to part of it like praying and be able to support organization and that will be grateful like very grateful so your foundation works to support the North Korean refugees specifically and then this other group works to do the speaking and education the young Americans yes okay okay wonderful what is the most important thing you want people to understand about North Korea thank you for asking that question so when I'm meeting people in America when I

I introduced myself and said I came from North Korea. The first reaction is North Korea. And then in their mind, the first thing comes is the missiles and the nuclear weapon, and then the Kim Jong-un and the regime, the power. But personally, I would like to ask Americans to think about North Korean citizens. We are people.

Our goal is just very simple. We want our freedom. We want to have more opportunity to help my families finding food. But in North Korea, we don't have any freedom, so we cannot make choices for our family. We don't have any freedom to choose our career. We don't have a freedom to travel, so we cannot bring goods from the other state to our own state freely without the government permission. And we don't have a freedom to speak.

So we cannot really complain. to the community and say, hey, our leader is not doing good or we are poor because of our leadership. We cannot say that. But right now, our current generation, we know that's true, but we cannot speak out and do anything because we are fear about our government and leadership. They will punish three generations in the family if we do anything like that. And like my grandmother, my father, my mother, and myself when we're growing up, the people in the village are very nice. They're kind and we will love to share food and love to share culture and love to share love to love each other. But because of the regime, all the love are ceased.

So I want American people to think about we are people, not the regime, not the nuclear weapon. But we are people who are seeking help. So you became a U.S. citizen in 2013, is that right? So what was that like? What did it mean to you? I remember when we like standing up and raising our right hand and then swearing the oath ceremony. And when the moment comes, I feel very emotional because Before I become the U.S. citizen, we were protected by the UN and we were refugees, but we did not have a home country.

Because we were denied back in our home country, North Korea, and we have to forcefully leave our home country. And we were wandering in China for 10 years, but each time we all got caught and sent back to North Korea forcefully, but North Korean government did not recomb us. They always put us into the prison, and they were watching us 24 hours, and we were not able to find any opportunity to live again as a North Korean citizen back in my country. So I always felt like I am an international orphan because no one really welcomed us

and no one really able to let us have a home. And my mom's dream was to have a home in her lifetime. And my siblings, we were thinking, We just want to have a country that we can call. We are, this is my home country. But when we're receiving the U.S. citizenship, we feel like I'm finally belonged to the United States, which is I'm finally belong to somewhere and be able to call or introduce to someone and say, hey, I came from America and I'm American citizen.

I have a home country. I have a powerful country behind us and protect us. I am not international orphan anymore. So that was a very heavy and strong emotional moment for me. So what about the fact that it's the 250th anniversary of the Declaration of Independence? I feel very emotional about that too. America is the strongest and then powerful country, according to my understanding. And that's why North Korea, they hate America because America is strong.

And America found that. the freedom 250 years and I'm very grateful that I can witness that moment and I really hope that next to 250 years we can protect and we can enjoy the same freedom that we have today. Do you have any final thoughts as we finish up? My final thought is I love my home country and I love my people in North Korea but I just oppose the regime. So please think about if no matter where you are or whether you're a policymaker or decision maker for the policies, please think about the people, not the regime. Because there are so many sanctions changes and then a lot of changes, a lot of things that North

Korean human rights activists, we're trying to help North Korean people individually in North Korea, we have limitations and we are not able to to help them like we helped in the beginning or in the past. So I would like to ask Americans to think about North Korea as a human country and we would like to have the same freedom that we are enjoying in America. So please pray for them and think about them and please be open-hearted. So then you can embrace more people from other countries like more graces, be able to inter-America as refugees. So thank you very much. Well, Grace Jo, it's such a pleasure to have had you on.

Thank you very much for having me. Thank you all for joining Grace Joe and me on this episode of American Thought Leaders. I'm your host, Yanya Kellick.