American Thought Leaders - Spike Protein Exposure and Clotting Pathologies Explained: Dr. Jordan Vaughn

Episode Date: April 6, 2024

“Most of the time when a doctor says there’s nothing wrong with you, what they’re really saying is: That doctor doesn’t know what’s wrong with you ... And I think doctors need to be more honest about that.”Dr. Jordan Vaughn is a physician of internal medicine and the CEO of MedHelp Clinics. During the pandemic, he noticed a pattern of abnormal clotting among his COVID patients, and saw other symptoms that few were discussing.“The spike protein has unique properties that allow clotting and clotting pathologies to happen that we'd never seen,” says Dr. Vaughn. “Vax injury, to me at least, can be more complicated, because it starts to involve a lot more neurological and immunological phenomena, as opposed to what I would call long COVID—[which,] in a lot of people, is a lot more just vascular.”Dr. Vaughn and an increasing number of doctors around the globe believe that COVID-19 is primarily a vascular disease, i.e., one that affects the blood vessels.“The worst thing you can do if you have a vascular disease of the lungs is increase the intrathoracic pressure with something like a ventilator,” says Dr. Vaughn.Today, he develops—and applies—treatment methods for those suffering from long COVID and COVID vaccine injury.“I think long COVID is almost becoming a pejorative … but in reality, it’s that these people were not able to clear the consequences of their exposure to the spike protein,” says Dr. Vaughn.Views expressed in this video are opinions of the host and the guest, and do not necessarily reflect the views of The Epoch Times.

Most of the time when a doctor says there's nothing wrong with you, what they're really saying is that doctor doesn't know what's wrong with you. Doctors need to be more honest about that. Dr. Jordan Vaughn is an internal medicine physician and CEO of MedHealth Clinics. During the pandemic, he noticed a pattern of abnormal clotting among his COVID patients and saw other symptoms that few were discussing. The spike protein has unique properties that allow clotting and clotting pathologies to happen that we've never seen. Dr. Vaughn and an increasing number of doctors around the globe

believe that COVID-19 is primarily a vascular disease. Because the worst thing you can do if you have a vascular disease of the lungs is increase the intrathoracic pressure with something like a ventilator. Today, he develops and applies treatment methods for those suffering from long COVID and COVID vaccine injury. This is American Thought Leaders, and I'm Jan Jekielek. Dr. Jordan Vaughn, such a pleasure to have you on American Thought Leaders. Well, thank you. I'm really happy to be here. You've been doing some remarkable treatments around microclotting. I think you've been developing the treatment around this area, which is, of course, one of the ways in which COVID manifests as a disease.

I want to talk a little bit about it, but this wasn't your thing. No, not at all. And it's very rare for people to be working in private practice or semi-private practice. And this kind of facilitated, I want to touch on all of this in our chat today. But let's start with that, your journey as COVID manifested and you're watching it from the perspective of a doctor with a private practice. Yeah, I mean, even to that point, as a health organization, I mean, I'm a CEO of employing about 20 doctors and 200 health care workers. There's countless numbers of patients that at that time we had to figure out how to help, right? A lot of the kind of mainstream narrative

about, you know, doing nothing really didn't come into play there. I thought that was kind of ridiculous. It had never had we ever done something like that. So it was more how are we going to deliver care, not only for our chronic diseases, but also we're gonna take care of people that are sick. And what that led me down was a lot of patience, a lot of learning, a lot of suffering, and then finding ways to alleviate it,

which is the coolest thing about being a physician. And so one of the things that we started to see was the clotting abnormalities. And it made sense to me that that's why a lot of these patients were getting what we call hypoxic, meaning they were, you know, if you ever see the patients that are like, well, I'm looking at my O2 sat, it's fine. But their O2 sat would drop even though they weren't necessarily having, I mean, when you would listen to their lungs, their lungs wouldn't sound full of, you know, fluid or anything.

But instead they were getting hypoxic which uh really led me to um jacques lobster in south africa i mean that's the coolest thing probably about the internet age and just i'm going to jump in hypoxic meaning low oxygen just just i want for the benefit of our viewers absolutely yeah and so jacques lobster was a cardiac intensivist in south africa he's also a very free thinker trying to figure things out had some expertise in clotting and clotting issues and basically chronic diseases. And he basically had a YouTube video that's put up in June of 2020 that said, look, we're barking up the wrong tree. This is a clotting disorder or basically we call it vascular issue, not a respiratory issue. And from that, they started to publish with Risha Portorius out of South Africa and Doug Kell out of England.

And again, being the free-minded person that was like, I've got to find answers more than what CNN or even these congressional testimonies or these daily updates are telling me. Because they don't seem to actually be anything like what I'm seeing in the clinic. I've got to find out what's going on. And the cool thing about the current internet age is you can find out what a lab in South Africa is doing. You can find out what people in, you know, in Liverpool are doing and you can communicate with them. You can email them, you can have Zoom calls with them,

and you can all of a sudden learn a whole lot. And in the end, help a bunch of people. So that's really what led me there is the clotting pathologies of COVID. We would call it COVID-associated coagulopathy. It's a fancy term, COAC or whatever you want to call it. But it was unique to anything we had ever seen. And it was neat to be able to intervene with a lot of things that we already had. And it would keep these people out of the hospital, reverse their hypoxia.

But you had to evaluate the patient, be with them, take care of them. And you didn't want them to obviously to go to the hospital because the worst thing you can do if you have a vascular disease of the lungs is increase the intrathoracic pressure with something like a ventilator. You know, it was pretty obvious in the respiratory physiology journals in Europe,

that the ventilator just made the respiratory issues worse. And they couldn't figure out why. Well, because it wasn't necessarily the airway per se. Again, it was the vascular system. So this leads on to taking care of a bunch of people with COVID. I probably, you know, my clinics probably, we probably treated 17 to 20,000 people.

We probably put about 500 people on HOMO2, meaning I had a lady actually that her husband, we had pulled him out of the hospital, got him better, but it was an interesting thing to get home oxygen for him. And she was like, what can I do? I said, well, yeah, it is hard. Let's see, you know, and she's like, well, let's buy a bunch of oxygen concentrators,

put them in the back of my car. And when you need to send somebody home, but also send them home on oxygen, I'll just I'll just run it over there so there's there's ways to solve problems so this is actually community I love hearing about this right because this is like community yeah getting together and saying we got a problem let's solve this yeah it's like this parallel system like the the system that we're supposed to rely on is broken it's doing nothing so innovative people say well we still

got to care for people and we need these things. And then people step up and get it done. And it was really I just want to comment on it. It was really so bizarre that the protocol was to do nothing until you are in deep. You know, we know it's a two stage disease. The first stage is relatively easy to treat. The second stage is terrible. Right. And so, you know, but somehow like the procedure was to let people get to the second stage is terrible right and so you know but somehow like the procedure was to let people get to the second stage is that I mean of course I couldn't even imagine that's what was happening back then right back in there you can imagine that was what people were thinking right yeah and that's I guess where my health care delivery history came in because again as it was

how do I test my patients and when they're tested bring them and treat them immediately but also how do I determine who's going to head down that pathway negatively like the clotting issue so that also led me to start checking clotting markers have them come back at day five I want to see if their clotting markers are abnormal what does their chest x-ray look like and if they were going down the COVID associated coagulopathy pathway I was like let's intervene instead of waiting to day 14, and I'd get a lot of day 14 or 20, day 20. And those people were, I mean, they were more, you've got to salvage it instead of kind of getting ahead of it. Does that make sense? Now you could still salvage it. It would help without a doubt. But a lot of times my thought

process, instead of saying, oh, I hope there's no more 14-dayers that show up to the clinic. It's like, how do I get the day five people and figure out which one's going that way? Does that make sense? Yeah, absolutely. Using your kind of just brain on the ground as a physician and just saying, this is what we're going to do. And the other thing is, as an organization that I own and my father owns, we were able to do what we thought was right. No one told us anything different. Well, I want to dig into that, you know, quite deeply here. But before I go there, you know, there's been a lot of, we've actually covered these sort of these large clots, right,

that, you know, people started finding in cadavers and so forth. Or, you know, in some situations, people would have like a giant clot in the arm. They were getting, you know, numbness and goodness knows what. And they figured out, oh, we have to pull this clot out. So how does this micro clotting connect with this larger clotting? I think it's an amyloid. Right. So definitely most larger clots start out as smaller clots. Does matter where they are.

In the case of somebody who's been embalmed and passed away, I'm not sure the mechanism that actually makes those very rubbery clots. I will say that when we think about what's going on with the fibrin, the fibrin in a sense is actually, you know, kind of assembling itself in a protein-protein interaction. It's a fancy word that, you know, in medicine we typically think of as kind of prion-like, P-R-I-O-N. And something makes me think that that might be one of the, what's going on is this, you know, when you're alive, you have the kind of negative or feedback loop to stop it from happening a little bit better than you do when you're gone. And when you're gone, that just

kind of propagates to its end. That's, again's again just my theory but it makes sense in terms of what we're seeing in the living does that make sense yes but yes it's it's it's unique clotting and then it's affecting people that probably may have had some genetic issues with either coagulation which is a fancy word for saying making clots but also fibrinolysis. And a lot of people, especially medicine, has never really used a lot of interest in what we call fibrinolysis. Everybody's all about clotting, but just as important is we need to clot. I mean, you don't live, I mean, you know, hemophilia is not a great thing, meaning like bleeding disorders

aren't a great thing when we talk about somebody who's going to randomly bleed easily. We are, in a sense, there's a design in the fact that we have this mechanism on tissue injury that should stop you from bleeding out. Because if you bleed out, you can't really do much, right? I mean, you know, so you're going to have this mechanism at work. It's when it goes awry, but also when that tissue injury is healed, you've got to get rid of that fibrin as well. And that's the process we call fibrinolysis, correctly? And so the fibrinolysis, what we call fibrinolysis is also just as important.

And what the unique thing about COVID was, is not only was it pro coagulable, you know, pro coagulable or what we call it, you know, COVID associated, but also it, it, these things that were formed and there's actually an article in the publishments of the National Academy of Science yesterday about the fact that even the viral proteins can recombine, whichyloid we can look at the microscope and it has a beta sheet to it so it's not the normal formation but it's also resistant to fibrinolysis so when Risha and Doug would apply trypsin typically when they were studying fibrin aggregates you know since like the early 2000s you've applied trypsin boom goes away you apply trypsin to these things goes away. You apply trypsin to these things, they stay. So the bottom line is that there's this promotion in some people with these markers you were

mentioning of coagulation, where you don't want it to be happening. And on the other end, when that coagulation exists, there's sort of prevention from the breakdown. Exactly. That's a double whammy. So it's a double whammy. And I think that's where a lot of people miss. And that's one of the reasons that even now we're seeing a lot of patients that, you know, you would have typically treated somebody

with kind of a history of a stroke or a transient ischemic attack with what we call secondary prevention, you know, which could be aspirin or some other antiplatelet agent. But a lot of the patients, by the time they get to me in this subset, they've had their third stroke while they were on secondary prevention.

And so you're all of a sudden going, well, maybe there's something else happening. Maybe the secondary prevention, you know, is a different clotting, not a different clotting process, but the things that we're dealing with are stickier, harder to break down and very different than the studies that we had looking at strokes you know from 2019 previous right well so so what did you discover so I will say what I did is a lot of times just stand on the shoulder of

Risha and Doug as the clinical scientists the PhDs that were seeing this in the lab what we were able to do was try to find ways among repurposed medicines to try to break these things down, even to the point that the flexibility for me to buy a big, you know, immunofluorescent microscope that's automated and motorized and laser-focused and all these kind of things, I had the money to do that, great. But you could buy a product like that. You better know how to run it. But the cool thing about it is these things have cameras in them. And Zoom happens to be able to connect me with the world expert in microscopy with coagulation.

And even though I had to wake up pretty darn early, because South Africa is a little bit ahead of us, I was able to be trained by somebody and then really impact my patients. Over that time, we've also discovered that there's some, you know, kind of genetic things that we're seeing in certain people that probably, I mean, they might be vaccine injured or just as easily have persistent issues with COVID or what we would call long COVID. Okay. I definitely want to talk about that. But so we're talking, when you're looking at this microclotting, we're talking about, we're not talking about treating in the first stage where you're treating with this, you know, FLCCC protocol, for example, right? Although I guess they do also have a protocol for the later stage. But you're basically looking at people who are now have serious disease. Yes. It's really the long COVID stuff is where I actually started to bring in the

microscope. So what I would say is I was using anticoagulation early, just based on what Jocko and them were seeing. But it wasn't until I started to see some of my first, what I would say, long COVID patients, patients that may have been hospitalized. You know, they were young, they were healthy, but they hadn't been able to walk up the stairs again without feeling short of breath. Most of the time when a doctor says

there's nothing wrong with you, what they're really saying is that doctor doesn't know what's wrong with you. Does that make sense? And I think doctors need to be more honest about that. And a lot of these things, that was my answer. I said, I got to figure this out. This is different. I haven't ever seen this. It's definitely, you know, it times with your vaccine or with when you got COVID, but why is it persisting? And so that is where it kind of led me to really get in touch with

Risha and Doug and have them teach me to be able to look at it clinically and then start to put the put the dots together. So let you know there's even I think even in this day there's some people that don't really accept that there's such a thing as long COVID and then there's of course what what here some doctors would call long vax yeah right and they're they're not necessarily the same thing so explain to me the reality of long COVID and how that relates to long vax. So at its core, and that's one of the discoveries I think Risha and Doug made was that the spike protein, which happens to both be what the COVID

is so uniquely causes it to be so dangerous, but also what the vaccine contains as its way to keep you from getting it. The spike protein has unique properties that allow clotting and clotting pathologies to happen that we've never seen. At its core, the spike protein is really, you know, engaging with the ACE2 receptor. And that's all over your vasculature, your heart, your lungs, all of these places.

And so in a sense, what I would go back to what Jaco said is, we're dealing with a vascular disease from the brain to your muscles, to your heart, to everything. If it's not well vascularized and able to deliver oxygen, it's not going to work well. And so that's what's so confusing, I think, to most physicians is, in the current system we have, it's very siloed. You have heart disease.

But when you have something that affects multi-systems, so it's a multi-systems disorder we have it's very siloed. You have heart disease but when you have something that affects multi systems so it's a multi systems disorder and it's inflammatory it's also you know when tissues as well as systems don't get oxygen they don't work well so then you do get a lot of secondary dysfunction as well. That's why historically in medicine we like to silo things into pulmonology, cardiology. But when you are dealing with something that's affecting the small vessels of everywhere, you're going to have a lot of interesting symptoms. And it took a while to figure out that that's what connected all these problems, right?

Yeah. And so, Jaco actually, interestingly enough, as he was treating those patients in the summer of 2020, and him and Risha were looking at people's blood, they were using triple therapy in the acute COVID, what he started to see was that when he started to go back to clinic, some of the people that would show up were people that didn't necessarily end up in the CCU but they had had COVID and they were now really healthy very active people that now can't walk up the stairs. So he started to look at their blood and what he found was he saw the same you know what I would call amyloid fibrin or micro clots or fibrin aggregates in their blood which it shouldn't have been either so that's where the leap was taken to say this what we call post-acute symptoms of covid which i like better than long code i think long code is almost becoming a pejorative because it's like oh it's just long you know but in in reality it's that these people were not able to clear the consequences

of of their exposure to the spike protein. And when he started using the similar therapy to what he was using in the ICU, these people started to get better. And that's what I started doing. I started saying, that makes a whole heck of a lot of sense. The drugs we have are, we understand their risk. The patient can understand their risk.

And these people aren't people that I'm really worried about having brain bleeds they're fairly young a lot of them are athletic I did initially follow them quite closely because it took a little while to be comfortable with it it was it is with any therapy and then you start to see results and especially the first couple of people I did it on were college athletes. And so their trainers would in a sense say, the harder we work him since he's got COVID, the worse his performance is. And that's usually not what, when you have a college athlete,

these are pretty well oiled machines that have been evaluated. For that to all of a sudden, there's something off. So it's easy to believe them. When you're talking about a 50-year-old or a 60-year-old, it's much easier to rationalize that you're just getting older or you haven't exercised recently or you're just not exercising or you're out of shape or the pandemic, you stayed inside and ate too much.

But as you started to kind of take that leap from college athletes to seeing that, seeing the whole spectrum of it, you start to go, well, this could work in those as well. And that's kind of where we went. So, and so how is this, you know, spikeopathy for lack of a better term and different with the COVID vaccine spike? So what we know, I mean, obviously about the spike that is basically in the vaccine is for the most part, when you make a vaccination, you want the body to engage with something that's immunologically, you know, strong. And so what they did was basically insert, because again, these things kind of exist in a three-dimensional

from kind of open to conformational to closed. And so if the spike's engaging area is closed, it's not going to really produce an immunological response. So instead, if you kind of replace some of these little things, prolines, at the edge of where the turning mechanism is, you can keep it open longer. And most people who design vaccines want you to make an immunological response, so they design them in a way that your body engages with them.

The problem is with that, it makes it harder to break down, but also more likely that the thing, as we just said, that is coagulable, it makes, basically, fibrin engage on its own without thrombin. It makes that happen more. Typically, most vaccine history usually involves what we call passive mechanisms of vaccine, meaning you'll hear the word inactivated viral vaccine. Very important that a vaccine is inactivated, meaning you usually get rid of the thing that causes pathology, but you expose the body to the parts of the virus that aren't

necessarily as pathologically producing, but allow you to mount an immune response for you to actually fight the real thing when it gets there. And that was one of the things that was interesting to me is we're using something that is the pathogen. We're making some shifts in it to make it more immunogenic and then we're using a vector that is what we call an active vector. So a passive vector would be I have this amount of that kind of inactivated virus and I'm gonna put just that amount and it's for the most part stay in your arm it might go other places but your body's gonna

passively interface with it okay that's what's going to produce the immunological response the mrna was more the instructions to make the pathogen for an unknown amount of time in whatever cell it can get into yeah and then you add in the lipo nanoparticles that literally allow i mean they're designed to let things go everywhere. If you talk, some of the lectures from the guy that actually is kind of the invention and patent holder, that was the coolest thing about them. They can go anywhere. Pass through even the blood brain barrier. Vax injury, to me at least, it can be more complicated because it starts to involve a lot more neurological phenomenon and immunological phenomenon as opposed to what I would call long COVID in a lot of people. It's a lot more just

vascular. From what I just heard, right, you're telling me that the vax in no sense is the disease but it can just go more places in your body. Yes. Yeah. I mean, so the spike is the pathogen. Well, right. That causes the disease. Exactly. So, you're basically telling me that the pathogen is almost like maybe supercharged would be too strong a word, but like augmented. Rightfully by an immunologist who want to get an immunological response.

Who knows if they knew that this thing can do the things that we're seeing in the coagulation cascade. It just seems. Seems foolhardy. Correct. That's a good word, right? Because it is the pathogen in the end, as opposed to the more typical way that you would try to make a vaccine, as you described very aptly earlier.

Yeah. Right. The word vaccine is become a sacrosanct word in medicine, which I don't know that it deserves that. I think every intervention should be always questioned or evaluated for its uses and its harms. For some reason, there's this one area that really hasn't been allowed to do that. I use the example sometimes, think about in the 90s, how we treated cancer was a lot more

with cut, kill, and burn. Now we treat it with the immune system in very effective ways. What if we weren't allowed to question how we treated cancer? Those were the only paradigms that would concern me. Meaning, again, a lot of what we learn about the immune system, and that's what I've learned even about the coagulation system, is it's much more complex. It's almost like we're continuing to say, oh, we got it now, but every door we open, the room that we have to now discover is bigger. Does that make sense? It's this never-ending complexity in some ways and the more that we even have the thrombotic system and the inflammatory system I think the word for the next 10 years will probably be

thromboinflammation. I mean they are interconnected in a way that I don't think you can disentangle. If you're going to have inflammatory issues you're going to have changes in the coagulation cascade that will result in some type of thrombotic process. Because things that make coagulation possible involve the small vessels. The small vessels are where everything is delivered. But also the small vessels have immunological responses to their damage, destruction, and repair. And the more that we actually find out how many different receptors there are on platelets and how many different receptors there are in the endothelial cell and how they can attach, it almost looks like a New York City subway map.

I mean, it's just immense how many you're like, oh, that's connected to that. In medical school, we say, say oh there's hematology and thrombosis and here is the rheumatological and inflammatory diseases but instead they intimately interact which is why i think going back to the original kind of metaphor on cancer it's like who would have thought that cancer involves disruption of immunological processes in the body? I mean, we kind of knew that because typically viruses, but, and then who would have known that treating, you know, certain things like that with immunological processes would be more successful than doing the crazy stuff we used to do,

cut, kill, and burn. So how what would be a good way to describe thrombosis colloquially? I mean it's what thrombin does to activate clotting I guess. We do describe thrombosis as a clot in something. Right I always thought of thrombosis as clotting but you're not it's not the same. So yeah yeah I mean in the word gets its word from thrombin yeah but it's thrombosis is yeah in medical and we call clinical medicine thrombosis would be a fixed occlusion of a vessel but when we talk about thrombo inflammation or or thrombin as well as you know I would say pro thrombotic is also a better term

things that are tilting toward because it's a it's always a balance like even as well as, I would say, pro-thrombotic is also a better term, things that are tilting toward it because it's always a balance. Even as you sit there, your body has the ability for your entire vascular system to clot off. And so it's a balance between when it needs to do that and when it doesn't. Thrombotic inflammation isn't necessarily something that a lot of people are ultimately familiar with. I mean, it has something to do with, you know, occlusion of vessels through inflammation. Can you just explain the term to me? Yeah, so typically we would think of an inflammatory process and a thrombotic process. A thrombotic process is something that's going to produce thrombosis, thrombosis being something that clots off or stops

basically a vessel. Inflammatory processes are things that are revved up and we classically think of as things that are associated with lupus or rheumatoid arthritis or just really banging our knee. But the reality is instead of separating them in somewhat our siloed education, the reality is we can't disentangle them. They actually exist and activate together. You don't activate a thrombotic process without actually your immune or inflammatory process being part of it. And you cannot have an inflammatory process without there being some type of thrombotic process also occurring at the same time.

Well, and it's particularly relevant here because this is exactly what we're dealing with. It's coagulation, which is, I guess, a thrombotic process, right? Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Okay, I got you. Where are we at right now in terms of being able to treat these, you know, long COVID or long vax scenarios? And how often is it demonstrable that it is a vascular issue, as you described? I would say it's probably in my patient population, and I've probably treated by now about 1,600.

It is probably 60% of them are primarily vascular. And so from, and again, primarily vascular, understanding that it's also vascular creates an inflammatory process. But that's why I like that word, thromboinflammation. But and a lot of the things that we have done with anticoagulants, antiplatelets, a lot of natural things that are fibrinolytic, fancyants, antiplatelets, a lot of natural things that are fibrinolytic, fancy word again going back to that fibrinolysis, have been really successful at getting these people back better.

There is a subset. And I think, again, going back to what's the difference between long vax and long COVID, long vax to me has a lot more weird neurological phenomenon that are interesting and they are harder to treat. And there is still a thromboinflammatory coagulation, that kind of process going on and a lot of times it helps but I think a lot of the neurological stuff is much more, not autoimmune per se, but it's an immunological phenomenon that we haven't really figured out what's going on. It presents things like MS and like Guillain-Barre and those kind of things that are also immunological

or autoimmune processes. So that's kind of where we are. And the interesting thing is the more we treat, the more we learn. So not everybody is created equal. Some people have the coagulation issue they need, but a lot of people may have propensity of not being good at breaking things down and have an issue with fibrinolysis. And so as we've learned that, it's like you have this whole spectrum, it's vascular,

you have this clotting issue, but all of a sudden you're like, it's not the clotting, it's the clotting everyone does, it's the fact that they can't get rid of it. And so then you have to address it in a different frame. But I'd say about that is vascular. The other portion that we're seeing, and this is just more even in my presentation yesterday, is about venous disease. And so that's the other thing that I'm exploring is I will tell you that in medicine, I've never really thought about the veins much. We can tie them off or they're ugly in your legs or something like that, but you never

really thought about the venous system and its importance. And I would say when I started kind of going down that pathway, as a lot of these people had leg heaviness, tachycardia with exertion, heart rate racing, shortness of breath. In very athletic people, they used to run under, you know, almost four minute miles, those type of people, it starts to make some sense when you assess that your heart does need blood to get back to it. So if you need increased cardiac output, you've got to have cardiac input. And 70% of your blood is in your venous system. Now it's not good blood.

It is... The deoxygenated. Deoxygenated. It's also more inflammatory. Imagine a pond up in the mountains that doesn't have an entry and exit. It's going to start to kind of get that green, again, just kind of giving you a metaphor for it. But that's a lot of what happens in some of these issues with venous pooling and venous

disease. The venous system is not operating correctly to get venous return, not only to the liver, but also to the heart to get oxygenated right so you make a really good point we often think about veins in terms of these like varicose veins or something cosmetic and arteries we think about a lot more because you know you puncture an Arctic artery and you you know bleed out and you're it's over right sort of thing so but actually both are critical so tell me so so and I would even add to

that I mean you know if you block an artery you're going to the ER if you block a vein you're not going to the ER but your life might stink you know over the next couple months does that make sense so yeah say yeah it's it's a lot much you know slower you know process it's you know Your tissue is going to adjust to this new environment, but it's not going to die like it would if it doesn't get any oxygen. Because it's just you're delivering back the blood into the system to get it fresh again so to speak, right? Some of the things that I've discovered as a doctor is like, I don't think I ever

even in med school spent a lot of times talking about veins. And the more I get into them, the more they're even different than arteries. But that's what I kind of digress from that. I could go on for a while with it, but it's just interesting. Even the medical system itself, it's an acute care system. We want to take care of the arterial, you know, the artery that's not getting, you know, we don't want your hand to rot off. But if, you know, you can't walk up the stairs because you don't get venous return because your veins are damaged. And just to remind people, so you're basically, there's basically this

inflammation that's happening there, or in some cases, these, you know, clotting and so forth, and that's what's causing this. Yeah. So we've got a couple different theories, but yes, I mean, it's definitely, we know vascular damage is happening both on the central lining, we call it the endothelium, it's kind of the first little layer of vessels, but also there's pretty good evidence, at least in the arterial side that the intima, the kind of area right behind is also getting impacted. Your veins do relax and contract. I mean we don't ever measure them like we would blood pressure, right?

That's more, you know, how high is your blood pressure? No one's ever like, well, how high is your venous pressure? But your venous pressure is a very low pressure. It's very dynamic. So when you're lying there flat, your venous pressure is, you know, eight, nine, 10 millimeters of mercury. When you're standing up, it's 21, 22.

So I mean, what other, like if the arterial system doubled every time we went from sitting to standing, we'd have a lot of people showing up at the ER going, you know, but again, I know there are different systems, but it's just interesting that we kind of just, it's this passive sewage system we'd rather not think about. And also it's kind of like,

you're gonna find out pretty immediately if there's no water to your house. Might take you a couple of days to realize your sewage system is not working, but the smell will start coming. Right. Yeah. I want to jump back to something. We were talking about long vax, long COVID, you know, differences. The other thing, I mean, there's the actual lipid nanoparticle, which is toxic from what I understand.

And the mRNA itself is thrombotic. That's one of the things I haven't actually been mentioning to people when they ask me what's wrong with these products, right? But then, of course, there's also these cell walls, the endotoxin and the DNA contamination in there. So that also is a toxic shock, from what I understand, from the endotoxin. And then there's these weird proteins that are a result of this mRNA skippage, which

was in this Nature paper a couple of months ago, I think. There's just a lot more going on than just spike from the virus being the pathogen. Yeah, exactly. And actually, this publishing of the National Academy of Science that came out yesterday actually shows that as the spike breaks down, it does the actual components of it, not the spike, the virus, sorry, the virus particles, or what we call peptides, they reassemble into something that's even harder to break down and actually more pro-inflammatory. They're calling it a pro-inflammatory super, basically a macromolecule. And so that's one of the reasons that in some of these inflammatory places,

they don't seem to find the virus. But instead, it's just particles of the virus, which to me goes against, even as an engineer historically, my kind of understanding of thermodynamics, that something would recombine in a harder-to-breakdown form. But based on this paper out of Cambridge, it's happening. And this is the virus spike? Yeah.

So basically in this area, we need more research. Yeah. And you're saying this is sort of atypical. Yeah, it doesn't happen. Actually, they tested the same kind of theory against common cold viruses, and it doesn't happen in those, which is again makes you think that it's just a unique, depending on your source, I would argue man's gift to man, not nature's gift to man. But it seems to have a little bit more purpose or intuition or that it was designed for something.

There's lots of different theories, but men have messed with it. Yes, this is all happening at the same time as we're pretty darn decided now that this is a lab leak virus, not a naturally occurring virus. And this you know, this was not rocket science even in 2020. I mean, looking at probabilities, it was much, much more likely based on everything we saw. And we did a whole documentary on it back in April of 2020 that it was some sort of a lab origin. But I think it's about as unequivocal as you can kind of get with having the original samples destroyed, right? Exactly. And then the unique kind of fingerprints on it.

I feel like some people, anybody who's had COVID, they say this is unlike anything I've ever had. But it's just even back to the clotting. We haven't really ever seen some kind of protein like that do the things that it does in the blood. That's absolutely fascinating and incredibly disturbing. We'll be reading that paper. We'll put it up here. And a ton more research needs to be done here. Before we finish, I really want to touch on your kind of unique

or rare situation where you've been in private practice with your dad. I met him yesterday, and what a fantastic man. I'm glad to hear that he's an Epoch Times subscriber. time subscriber you guys have been able to do something that most doctors simply weren't in a position to do and that was something that took me frankly years to figure out in the first place that that's actually what was happening that that's was a drivers maybe can I like explain that to me a bit yes so fundamentally I think you know my father obviously he started our company the year I was born, so it's probably a pretty good year, and it, you know, his goal was to have the freedom to care for patients medically, spiritually,

whatever it was, and he is always as an independent thinker and so am I. What gives you that flexibility and what gives you the ability to do that is not having someone else dictate what you do. When Obamacare came along in 2008 what it added was a lot of additional restrictions and regulations and basically what that adds up to is cost. Cost for the private practitioner. What we had to do was basically expand and expand to cover that cost for the private practitioner. What we had to do was basically expand and expand to cover that cost

because the economy scales. Many physicians did the opposite, which was have the hospital system or the academic hospital system or the private hospital system or the private equity company buy them out. I always use the phrase when Obama said, "'You can keep your doctor.'"

I said, well, but that doctor may be the same person, but who's his boss is now different. And his boss is not the patient anymore. It's not until the last three or four years that a lot of them, it's exposed that they really aren't in charge. Because at the end of the day, the dictates come at the end of a gun,

the gun meaning your paycheck. But if you're self-employed, own your own practice, your boss is really your patients. And when your patients are sick and when a community is suffering from a disease that's causing hospitalization and there's ways to intervene early, you're able to do that for the community, for your patients. And I think that's where medicine has got to get back to, because the structures of medicine now are very vertically integrated in many ways. Right.

Well, you know, I've been even wondering to myself, is corporate healthcare even compatible with the Hippocratic Oath? And then, you know, last week we actually published, you know, this email that was withheld about the myocarditis signal in the COVID vaccine that they withheld because they were afraid it would cause panic. I mean, that is, it's important information

for a prospective patient to know, one would think. Right? Exactly would think. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. And I would add to why that was so fundamentally important is in the complexity of medicine as well as the kind of basically the ever-growing demands on a regular physician taking care of people every day. They don't necessarily have the time and sometimes not even the resources to read a lot of the case reports and what's going on. And instead, they've kind of outsourced that to bodies like the CDC or FDA

that historically we would have thought are reliable and forthright. And when you expose an email that says, we're not going to tell the truth because it might impact some kind of other ulterior motive they have, it exposes what a lot of people probably now see that these are political institutions and because of that they're biased and they have they want self-preservation and so you've got to understand that and do your own unfortunate unfortunately for a lot of people work that's why the FLCCC here is

so great because it's a consortium of doctors that agree that we need good information to help our patients what What's next for you? So as we continue down learning about coagulation, the interesting thing of a lot about what we call thromboinflammation is COVID has exposed it. It's sped it up. But a lot of disease processes have thromboinflammatory issues at their core. And as we discover ways to help long COVID or Vax injury, there's not a reason that they can't help other chronic diseases

that have to do with the microvasculature. And I think that's kind of one of the cool silver linings is it's kind of forced us to go a little deeper, figure something out. But what we figure out might be able to help a lot of people even beyond spike protein or spikeopathy. Well, Dr. Jordan Vaughn, it's such a pleasure to have had you on. Oh, I enjoyed it. Thank you. Thank you all for joining Dr. Jordan Vaughn and me on this episode of American Thought Leaders. I'm your host, Jan Jekielek..