American Thought Leaders - Trump’s NATO Comments, the Tucker-Putin Interview, and the WHO Pandemic Treaty: Historian and Estonian Official Anti Poolamets

Episode Date: February 20, 2024

“It looks very legitimate when the President speaks, yes, but I don’t believe a word when a KGB man speaks ... This was a propaganda message for [the] American public first.”Anti Poolamets is an Estonian historian and a prominent member of the Conservative People’s Party. He is an outspoken supporter of Donald Trump’s policies concerning Europe, and an equally fierce critic of Vladimir Putin’s expansionist ambitions and his invasion of Ukraine.“Trump was a man with [a] backbone and [the] biggest supporter of Ukraine,” says Mr. Poolamets. “Trump was [the] first who gave lethal weapons to Ukraine.”In this episode, Mr. Poolamets and I discuss Tucker Carlson’s recent interview with Vladimir Putin, whether the Russian president’s version of history stands up to scrutiny, and how the European Green Deal and the World Health Organization’s International Health Regulations are threatening the global economy and state sovereignty.“We can’t give away our sovereignty, and the EU is becoming more and more federal. [The] Green Deal is simply destroying European economies, and this is like the Soviet Four-Year Plan,” says Mr. Poolamets.Views expressed in this video are opinions of the host and the guest, and do not necessarily reflect the views of The Epoch Times.

It looks very legitimate when the president speaks, yes, but I don't believe a word. This was a propaganda message for American public first. Antti Polamets is an Estonian historian and a prominent member of Estonia's Conservative People's Party. In this episode, we discuss Tucker Carlson's interview with Vladimir Putin, Trump's NATO comments, and the global implications of the WHO's international health regulations and the European Green Deal. This Green Deal is simply destroying European economies, and this is like a Soviet four-years plan. This is American Thought Leaders, and I'm Jan Jekielek. Ante Polimets, such a pleasure to have you on American Thought Leaders.

Antti Polamets, such a pleasure to have you on American Thought Leaders. Nice to see you. Well, I've been wanting for a long time to get a series of perspectives from Europe on this WHO pandemic treaty, international health regulations, actually multiple things. And we've been wanting to do this interview for quite some time, but a whole bunch of stuff that's incredibly relevant to you has come up in the interim. One of them is, recently, earlier this week, President Trump said in a rally, roughly, Russia can do whatever they want to NATO nations that don't pay. What did you make of this? This is quite a big topic in Estonia,

because we are a border country to Russia, and this security umbrella is highly important for us. But in Trump's case, we can say that when he was president, he said that, boys, you must start spending. You can't build an army with this money. And the US is not only a country that must pay. So it's the same argument, but a lot of pepper inside. So I think his argument is absolutely correct. Please start spending, because there is a big war in Europe. Do something. Your spending is 1% of GDP or less in many countries. So when Trump did it during his presidency,

the NATO countries really started to raise their military expenditures. And it was a great thing. Even our neighbor country, Latvia, started seriously to react to Trump's comments. So we must look what Trump really did. During his presidency, he strengthened seriously NATO capabilities. In Trump's case, deeds are more important. A little bit to be aware because words can create some panic, Trumpin tapauksessa tehtävät ovat tärkeämpiä. Hieman huomioidaan, koska sanat voivat luoda vähän panikkoa, erityisesti maissa, joilla ei kuljeta 2 % GDP-kohdasta. Estonia kuljettaa nyt 3,3 %. Se on huomattavaa.

Olimme samalla tavalla kuten kriitit, Kriitit, Rikki ja Englanti. And it's remarkable. We were in the same line with the Greeks, Greece and England. So and Poland, of course. But of course, it created international turmoil. Trump is their target number one. Liberals tried to try to do some smear, which were very unfair. What's really interesting is, first of all, as you said, Estonia has met its requirements. So even according to the statement, in theory, it should be fine. But I think that perhaps it was a bit hyperbolic, but the analysis, I think even Stoltenberg himself said that the comments were to the member states, not about the validity of NATO altogether. But this is actually another question. There's a lot of questions about NATO. And we're on the tail end of the Tucker Carlson interview with Russian President, or frankly dictator, Vladimir Putin. NATO is something that came up as a hot topic in that

interview. Of course, this is discussed everywhere. sanoa, että Putin kuitenkin kertoi propagandaansa. Hän käytettiin käytännössä tietojen kärsimystä väkivaltaisten ja amerikkalaisen välineiden vastaan. Joten ei tullut mitään uutta. ja jossain tasolla, uskon, että Karlsson ei kysynyt kysymyksiä tai nämä kysymykset olivat valmiita ja Putin ei halunnut heitä kysyä, esimerkiksi Ukrainaa kärsivästä, heidän omaa sotilastaa ja niin edelleen, mutta hän tykkäsi puhua siitä, kuinka kristillinen hän on ja Jumalan ja russin tunteesta, joten voin sanoa, että todella leppäät eivät muuttaa heidän paikoistaan their spots. They are KGB leopards in the Russian leadership. They fought against Christianity in the KGB. Do you believe

that they became overnight Christians? This is a facade of the old KGB clique who is ruling Russia, but it's real inside them. Real is imperial mindset, imperialism. This is their main point. They want to dominate. They are nostalgic about loss of occupied countries,

their spheres of influence, and Ukraine is part of that. There was debate in the U.S. and frankly everywhere whether this interview should have happened at all. I think that's crazy. Of course, we should try to interview a world leader, I think, and anybody would want to or should want to. Just a lot of them were unsuccessful. I think I appreciate Tucker Carlson for having done this. One more thing that just struck me is that he did call for the release of the Wall Street Journal journalist. I think that was fantastic that he did that. What I found really interesting was Putin's response, which was, from our perspective, it's espionage. The message was, if we decide it's espionage,

it's espionage. It was a reminder to me, at least, that Russia is a dictatorship and there isn't a rule of law that's functioning. No rule of law and the state is not functioning normally. I said that it was only 10 years of times of confusion in Russia after the fall of Soviet Union. And in the end of the first decade, KGB came back to power, now under official flag of presidency and others, but this is the KGB clique, security clique, who controls the elections. There are no freeki, joka kontrollii valoja. Ei ole ilmaisia valoja, vaikka ensimmäiset valojen Putin ei ollut ilmainen. Se oli

hankalattu ja tänään se ei ole täysin ilmainen. Kaikki muu todellinen käsitöinti on loppunut sanoen, että heidän valoja ovat väärssä, tuotantosignaalit. Mutta tämä ei ole vain Ruotsin rauhassa. Se on valtio sillä sääntelyllä. Tämä on syy, miksi he ottaa rikkoja. Esimerkiksi amerikkalaiset julkaiset. Tämä on rikkoja ottaa rikkoja. Tämä on yrittäminen rauhoittaa, kontrollata ja manipuloida. American journalist. This is hostage-taking. This is an attempt to revenge, control, manipulate. It's somehow like Iran. Russia tries to look Christian country, but it's not.

It's a very dangerous country, and I can say it for many experiences and researches. If I can mention, Antti, you know, the Orthodox Christian Church has kind of revived itself since communism in Russia. I don't think anyone would disparage that, right? That's true. But we must consider that the state and church are quite united in Russia. They are not like Catholics. mutta meidän on huomioida, että valtio ja kirkko ovat melko yhdistyneitä Venäjällä. He eivät ole katoistilaisia, jotka ovat olleet oman popeansa ja oman ymmärrystään ja joskus kritisoituja valtioon. found somehow the way how to continue because they wanted also human face. The going to church gives them human face. In Estonia, we considered also former communists suddenly appeared to churches

while they were probably looking 10 years before in the doors of churches when the young people enter church. And probably they send a letter to the director of the school and throw out these kind of bad students. This is so, how to say, Russian dissidents are correct in this way. Joten miten sanoa, russit ovat oikeassa tällä tavalla. Puhuin Vladimirin Bukovskyn kanssa, joka yritti myös olla russin presidentti, mutta hän oli nopeasti eliminen listasta. Tämä mielikuvan oli selkeä. This opinion was clear. KGB, Klik, who controls the country, they came back after some confusion. And we must look not this one interview, but their mentality generally. Why they spoke these things. I saw these videos put in interview three days.

And again and again and again. videoissa Putinin interviewin kolme päivää ja taas ja taas. Ja ymmärsin, että tämä oli propaganda-messi Amerikkalaisen yleisön ensimmäisenä. Ei niin paljon eurooppalaisen yleisön, mutta Karlsson on Amerikkalainen. Kaikki oli oikeassa paikassa. was in the right place. Putin humiliated Karlsson first, giving a strange amateur historian lecture in the beginning. And that was half an hour, can you imagine? And he said, I speak 30 seconds. And what he said, for example, that the Second World War began

because Poland didn't make a compromise with Hitler. And Poland, this is their guilt that the Second World War began. The denazification of Ukraine, among the first things, he starts to blame Poland for the beginning of the Second World War. It means that he said, Hitler tried to negotiate with Poland, but Poland was not ready for compromise, and then it all started. This was one of the things that actually, of course, as a Pole, I happened to notice that little bit of historical revisionism at the beginning.

What I find very interesting is that I think Putin was framing this as, when he says Americans, I think he's really saying globalists. You can correct me if you read this differently, but basically the globalist regime, he's calling that the Americans in this particular discussion. That's actually interesting because I know you're no fan of the globalist structures either. Clearly, you're not a fan of Russia under Vladimir Putin and being a former Soviet state. Can you square this for me a little bit? Putin tries to find weak points of their adversaries and undermine American fighting morals and supporting Ukraine.

It's very well targeted to undermine the moral. ja kestävän moraalit ja tukevan Ukrainan. Se on hyvin hyvin tarkoitettu, että se on kestävän moraalit. Kuten Yurij Besmen, soviittinen infektori, joka infektiti Westen, sanoi, että tärkein tehtävä on kestävän ennustajan moraalit ja demoralisoida amerikkalaisen yleisöä. Se oli selkeästi näkyvää, mutta is moral and demoralize. Demoralize American public. It was clearly visible. But, of course, they tried to find some points what is echoing to.

National debt is too big. You have, of course, border problems. He knew very well where to point. But from my point, it doesn't mean that Americans don't support liberty anymore. Putin told practically in the beginning of interview that Ukraine is practically non-state and non-nation, artificial state, artificial nation. But you Americans can simply imagine what British empire told about them. Some strange colonists make a mutiny, some a revolutionary war.

It's very bad. They are no state, they are no nation. But America became a big nation, a big state. And the same is about Ukraine. I think when Ukraine is coming out from this terrible fight, they will become one of the leading countries in Europe. They are the biggest country in Europe. So Antti, tell me a little bit about yourself. You're of course a conservative Estonian politician and member of parliament.

You're also a historian. Tell me a little bit about your life and how you got to today. We fight heavily today in the parliament for the conservative values. For freedoms, we have a very similar problem with the USA. The valtuuston. Joten valtuustolle meillä on erittäin erilainen ongelma USA ja globaalisti ovat samanlainen agendan kaikkialla ja olemme hyvin huolta näistä kehityksistä. Meillä on myös ongelmia emigraation kanssa. Meillä on ongelmia, jotka kestävät perheiden family, LGTB agenda is forcefully put on us. They tried to introduce next month the hate speech

law. It means that we lose freedoms. Green Deal is destroying our economy. We are in recession three years already. When we were in government with our Conservative Party, we came out from COVID with 8% of economic rise. And now three years, only economic recession. And the European

Green Deal is destroying our electricity system. So we are going to very dark times and we are in opposition. We must somehow fight these next three years before the next elections. And maybe what is interesting for Americans, we have e-elections. E-elections and all parties completely refusing them. We must somehow tolerate them because we go to elections, they are legal, but we don't trust them because they're not accountable. Estonia is a very digital country. We know this is nice, but we don't accept e-elections Estonia on hyvin digitaalinen maa, tämä on kiva, mutta emme ehdota

e-eläkehoitoja, koska tämä on epäonnistunut. Ei kukaan voi katsoa tämän verkkokokon. Ja ei ole maa käyttänyt sitä, muuten. Venetsuolainen ja Ranskainen ja myös Estonia. Ja pysy välttämättä, he ovat amerikkalaisia. Tämä on todella vaikeaa. Ja jos muistat ongelmia viimeisistä eläkehoistuksistasi, avoid this, dear Americans. This is really dangerous and if you remember problems with your last last elections, this is especially dangerous. But I know even Finland never does it.

So we are Estonian Trumpists with local differences. It's easy to explain for Americans that we are Trumpists, but we are conservatives and the values are very similar. But problems of big country like USA and a small country as Estonia, 1.3 million in security area are different. ja turvallisuusalueet ovat erilaisia. Kun investoimme vahvasti sotilaalle, olemme vielä hyvin pienissä Ranskasta alueella. Olemme erittäin kiitollisia amerikkalaiselle tuotantoon. Jotkut poliitikot ymmärtävät, mitä ilo on. Ei moni tänään ymmärrä.

Ja me tiedämme, mikä on ero soviittain ulkomailla. Not many today don't understand. And we know the difference coming out from the Soviet Union. So I have experienced all this. So I was a student this time. I participated in every big activity. I was one of the youngest members of creating the national front of Estonia. And Estonia brought down the Soviet Union. Everything started here. The freedom movement started here. Estonia was in the first Soviet republic, who declared that all laws are higher than Soviet laws.

It created immediately total chaos in the Soviet Union and other followed. But our readiness to fight for freedom was also important. We were better informed than other Soviet occupied areas because we had Finnish TV, we listenedimme Voice of Americaa ja niin edelleen. Tiedimme, mitä tapahtui. Elimme perheessäni toisella informaation alueella. Kaksi kertaa Voice of Americaa, mutta he suomalaiset TV. Emme halunneet tietää mitään soviittista yhdistystä. Finnish TV. We didn't want to know anything about Soviet Union. We were not

inside the cultural Marxist space. I suggested also to US conservatives switch out completely from the cultural Marxism, what is coming from from every channel. It's possible. We were in a much terrible situation. But now I feel that we are losing step by step some important rights, freedoms, like freedom of speech. It's going down in the European Union. I mentioned this, hate speech law. Economic freedoms, we have them less because of Green Deal, zero net, terrible Soviet idea. So I'm worried. I felt the time of freedom, and I want it back. How did you become a historian? So I wanted to know what was happening with Estonians because we had heavy censorship.

It was like in 1984, a novel. We tried to find old books from private collections reading about the war of independence in 1918, about suppression, about occupation, and we got this information. Mutta prosessi oli kuten Orwellin kirjassa. Olemme löytäneet näitä vanhoja kirjoja. Suomalaiset poistivat miljoonia ja miljoonia estonialaisia kirjoja. He pyrkivät niiden ja poistivat niitä. Meillä oli suuri, suuri tuotanto kansallisesta kulttuurista vuoden 1940. Ja nämä oikeat tai ilmaiset kirjat ilmaisesta maailmasta, ne olivat käsitellyt.

Joten se oli erittäin mielenkiintoinen aika, miten löytää oikeutta. En koskaan pysynyt etsimään totuutta. Tarkoittelin, että Vestissä myös jotkut historialliset tapahtumat eivät ole oikein kuvattu. Sovjetunnia, tietysti. Sovjetin teröri, sovjetin regiimi on melko lähellä Vestin ihmis far from the Western people and Western Europe and the USA. And I described the Soviet infiltration to American society. History helps to detect how, for example, the Frankfurt School of Philosophy infiltrated your country and started to change your perception of reality. As the former KGB agent Yuri Besmenov said, I suggest his videos.

He defected to the West in the end of the 70s and gave a lecture. olin syntynyt säästöön lopussa 70-luvulta ja kertonut siitä, että se vaatii kaksi tai kolme vuotta, jotta voidaan muuttaa maan hyvin vaarallisia ideoita. Mutta uskon, että se tapahtui USA. Kun näin tämän Black Lives Matterin mutinia, se oli kuin ruotsalainen revolutio. Kaikkiin he pysyivät kaupungit ja se oli pahaa. Pitää katsoa tarkemmin, että löydetään järjestelmää hyvin huonosta tilanteesta. Mutta myös opiskelin lakia ja tämä on hyvä yhdistelmä minun mielestäni But I studied law, and this is a good mixture from my point of view to

fight for political rights and freedoms. And then you know how to fight. This is a very good political weapon. The thing that a lot of Americans are concerned about when it comes to Ukraine is priorities of priorities. They're looking at things like numbers, like how much money, how many billions of dollars, over $100 billion now, are going towards the Ukrainian war effort. For example, a lot less than that are going toward the border effort. So they're concerned about this. Another thing they're concerned about is that there was strong overtures for attaining some kind of a settlement, peace settlement early on,

but then that was scuttled. I'd like to hear your thoughts on that. And finally, as much as there might be sympathy towards Ukrainians and so forth, it's recognized as an incredibly corrupt place where a lot of people would come to launder money. These are three areas that, from your perspective, you're supporting Ukraine, you're not supporting Russia, you're also not supporting the globalist agenda. Explain that to me. I think important is to support Ukrainian real nation state, building of nation state, free and sovereign state. Putin's idea is practically now to destroy this country and nation. Ukrainians have been nation for a very long time. And the nationality keeps them, the national feelings and proudness keeps them fighting.

Despite of corruption, what is real problem in the country, it shows that they have so strong national feelings, so strong contempt to occupation, so strong strive to independence, freedom, they still sacrifice their lives not looking to problems in their own states. And they have hopes that we can build a better state. Of course, they have a lot of problems and have been there several times. But I see the very strong national will. It's sometimes some philosophers saying that, oh, this is end of the history, no nations anymore. naisen taito. Jotkut filosofit sanoo, että tämä on lopputuloksen lopputuloksen.

Ei ole vielä naisia, mutta Ukraina osoittaa, että ne ovat suuri palkka Euroopan keskellä. Goliath tulee ja David on kestämässä ja kaikki tukevat todella. Vastuullisuus on yksi tärkeä asia, että asiat voivat mennä jopa huonommin, kun Russia venevät. Sitten voimme sanoa, että maailmanlaajuisuus on pienessä. Seuraava maa, joka on tärkeä, on Poltia tai joku toinen. Ja kun emme auta Ukrainan, ongelmat kasvavat ja kasvavat. Tämä on iso ongelma. Tietysti haluamme kaikki lopettaa tämän vaaran,

mutta Putin on vain yksi syy, että ottaa terveys ja kaikki hänen kohdansa. reason that take territories and under his terms everything, and Ukrainians can't accept it. They fight. So in the interview, he says, you know, he's been ready to negotiate for a long time. Seemed very reasonable guy there. It looks very legitimate when the president speaks, yes. Se näyttää hyvin järjestelmällisen, kun presidentti puhuu, mutta en usko, että kentieskentelystä puhuu. Kun hän puhuu jotain, se voi tarkoittaa erilaisen.

Se oli vain vihaa amerikkalaiselle ympärille tai jotain totuutta, joka vain demoraliso you, speaking about real things like border crisis. And so he don't like to resolve their border crisis. They do it always. They would like to deepen conflicts, problems. This is really the wrong practice. I have studied the KGB-metodista kirjoista ja myös todellisista rikollisuuksista, jotka kokevat niitä. Olen puhunut vanhoista KGB-ajentuksista, joita meillä on myös Estonia. He ovat kirjoittaneet kirjoja omasta metodistinsa.

Tämä on tavalla, miten russiimminen hemisvei toimii. He puhuvat ukrainalaisista oligardista methodology and this is the way how this Russian Hemisphere works. They speak about Ukrainian oligarchs and their problems, but Russia is full of oligarchs. They are utterly corrupt country. But we don't see there such real motivation. This is coercion to send Russian soldiers to this fight, or money sometimes. It's really so that the building sector activated in Russia because they got money for fallen soldiers, but Ukrainians have motivation to defend their country. One of the big disasters, and this actually comes out a little bit in the interview as well with Tucker's interview with Putin, is this dramatically increased relationship

between Russia and China and the Chinese Communist Party. He talks about how the Chinese are kind of a similar approach. They don't really want expansion. They just want to be left alone. Of course, we know from our own extensive work that this is not the Chinese Communist Party position. Russia, China and Iran are basically, you know, become strong allies. So it must never happen, this war, of course. But this was created by Putin and we must react.

So I think he wanted a very short war, big victory, but it didn't happen. So he's in trouble now. He must justify himself but the problem is that European politicians and American politicians have created this demons they made business with Putin how much Germany and European countries paid for gas and oil. Putin collected huge reserves. So Germany built up a huge world best training center, the Molino Brigade Training Center, where 30 000 Russian soldiers train every year. It was 2010 and this time. So NATO ally built up Russian military might.

And this is about China also. It has been huge technology transfer all the time. Only Trump start to say that please stop this stealing our technology. Please stop. And by the way, Trump was one of the most serious supporters of Ukraine because Obama only spoke. But Trump was first who gave lethal weapons to Ukraine. And these anti-rocket... The ja highly important. Javelins were highly important defending Kiev. So Trump is a quite good man in defending Ukraine, and they know it. But the West must stop the permanent build- up of communist China, for example, using their technologies.

If I go to shop, I look only made in China, made in China. It will continue. David Rockefeller antoi Suomen unionin suurta lupaa rakentaa maailman suurin rannanvaihto Kamman rannalla. Tämä oli vietnamsa-arvojen alkuperäisessä. Se oli rannassa yhdysvallat ja hyvin vaarallista. He rakensivat ison yrityksen Moskoossa vietnamsa-arvojen aikana. which business center in Moscow during the Vietnamese war. Let's make business. David Rockefeller and his globalist friends were doing some kind of crime, I can say, because American boys died. Still they died in Vietnam,

but then the globalist-minded bankers and business built the biggest truck factory in Russia Mutta sitten globaalisti miettivät pankkijat ja yritys rakensivat suurin rikosalue, Ressia-alue, 69-75 vuotta sitten. 150 000 rikkoa tuli ulos. Voitko kuvitella, milloin ne suurimmat menivät Yhdysvalloille. Se tarkoittaa, että Yhdysvaltojen oligardit, kuten Rockefellers, rakensivat soviittisen miltiin. Muistan, että se oli terveellistä propagandaa, mitä kuulimme joka päivä. My father started the day with the Voice of America at 6 o'clock am and ended the day at 7 pm with the Voice of America. So I feel that we are also responsible for what is happening in USA in some extent because my mother and father, grandfather and grandmother, they were taxpayers of Soviet Union. Estonia as the occupied country had to pay anyway. Subversive work, what was done, it was also with our money.

And this ideological subversion and demoralization, what found a good ground in 60s, 70s during Vietnamese war, ja demoralisaatio, joka löysi hyvän perustuksen 60-70-luvun kaudella vietnamsa sotilaassa, tämä edelleen vaikuttaa amerikkalaisuuteen. Tämä on näkyvää, miten kulttuurimarkkinoiden, joka oli soviittilaisuuden edistämisestä, somehow won in USA. This all woke culture, cultural Marxism, these mutinies on the streets, what we saw, Black Lives Matter or whatever.

This is somehow 40, 50 years old processes. Big part of that was Soviet subversive work. Well, absolutely. And since the fall of the Soviet Union, the Chinese Communist Party has kind of taken on a lot of the funding of that and related activity. Of course, the idea originally was

the reason why the U.S. has and continues to have this incredibly positive posture towards the Chinese regime was as a counter to the Soviet Union. That was the theory, right? general vision of engagement as opposed to competition or viewing it as the Chinese Communist Party views America, which is as a sworn enemy. But how they built up their all military, all this is part of technology transfer. The happy 90s and so on, the time even from 80s it has been huge transfer of technology and if we want

to stop them we must make less business I mean that especially high tech business and not to send all companies to China where from all people earn money ja ei lähettää kaikki yritykset Suomeen. Mitä kaikki ihmiset saavat rahaa, kun Euroopassa on vain open-air-museo?

Ei ole tarpeeksi. Verkkokysymykselle tulee meitä open-air-museo, koska kaikki yritykset pysyvät läpi. Alueella, Estoniaan, Verkk is completely destructive, and we will see the results very soon. Already we see it in Germany and everywhere. I just want to quickly comment on the Ukraine reconstruction. One of the things that's going to become evident, and I'm curious of your thoughts on this. On the one hand, you talk about this Ukrainian spirit of freedom. What we also know is that a lot of the contracts, for example, for Ukraine

reconstruction are going through a little company called BlackRock. It seems to me Ukraine, in order to get the benefits of this incredible funding that it gets, is kind of forced to accept a globalist agenda. What can you say if you're in the situation that you're in that position? That's been one of the analyses that's been offered. We really must look that these companies must not exploit Ukraine. When the American taxpayer sends money, they send it to freedom fight. And Americans do it correctly because they send weapons. This is not so apt for corruption. You can't send these rockets to the nearest market. Like the EU money may have much more problems because they send money to government to keep this country going.

But you see, always there is a threat that some people make money from the war. It's great danger. Corrupt people, corrupt companies. Burisma, if you remember what happened with Burisma and Biden's son story. But we must protect these nations from falling to the trap that somebody will exploit them after the war. I see that Ukraine is changing very fast. The mentality is completely changed. I have been three times there and walking around and asking common people also, not only ministers. This is amazing what is going on. It's one side...

How has the mentality changed? Unitedness. They were probably split really before. Quarrels between each other, more corruption, everything. But this unitedness

and ready to fight to the end is amazing. And it gives for you also spirit when you see these ja valmiita ja valmiita kestämään loppuun. Se on mahtavaa ja se antaa myös sinulle elämää, kun näet nämä naiset, kaverit, kaikki ovat valmiita. He kysyvät meitä, että olet täällä, voit kuunnella joka päivä. On erityistä, että olet tullut täällä, koska rokkit voivat tappaa sinua joka päivä. came here because rocket can hit you every day. The ladies say when we drink coffee in the cafe, they are like fatalistically minded that we fight, we don't fear, we stay until the end.

And this is amazing. But the Ukrainian must really be aware that not everybody who is coming from the West is a very good friend. Somebody is crook also. But they're in a very difficult situation. They must accept things because it's a struggle for life. And they struggle for Estonia also in some extent, because we never know when Russia is victorious, then all 1.3 million nations must be ready for everything. So that's very interesting, right?

I mean, this is, of course, also the Polish position. The key for them is to have this, they want to have Ukraine and independent Ukraine as a buffer between them and Russia, right, between Poland and Russia. That has a lot of strategic value. The general, of course, this is what Vladimir Putin said in this interview, the reason for the aggression is that NATO keeps encroaching on us and we won't tolerate that. This is actually NATO aggression. We're reacting to that aggression. How do you understand that? I know you've already expressed that your view is that Estonia or perhaps Poland

might be next if Russia is victorious in Ukraine. But can you qualify that with a little bit of historical information or even current information? Estonian conservatives have been very worried all the time because we were very pro-army. But for liberals, for a while, they thought that the end of the history was coming, and they wanted even to abolish the conscript army and all people fought for this. And they wanted visa-free movement to Russia and everything. We said that don't be mad, Russia is dangerous. But now even liberals woke up and even sleepy Sweden woke up. What was the real consequence of the attack on Ukraine?

Sweden has been neutral for 200 years, but they decided very fast that we must join NATO because they felt afraid. While they are a rich country, a strong country, they still felt afraid. While they are rich country, strong country, they still felt afraid. Finland joined NATO, and Russia got 1,000-mile new border with NATO. It was the result of attack to Ukraine. Finland was quite neutral country. They had no plan to join NATO. Now they are in NATO.

They are all neighbor country. They had no plan to join NATO. Now they are in NATO. They are our neighbor country. And this again shows that Putin made huge miscalculations with this war. He didn't plan for long war. It was months, month or so, and he hoped for corrupt West because Luopuun korrupti Vestin, koska kun otan Kievia, niin siinä tulee joitain sanktioita, kuten vuonna 2014, 2014, kun on ollut tämä krimiainen ympäristö. Ja sitten teemme yritystä kuten aina. Sanoimme, että Suomessa ja Franseissa on rahaa, kaikki saavat meille rahaa, kuten kylä ja öljy. France, everybody brings us money for gas and oil. They made business with Russia. They collected huge money for Putin, especially German Nord Stream 1, Nord Stream 2. By the way, only Western politicians who opposed it was, again, Trump. He said that they put sanctions to these companies who built Nord Stream 2, the gas pipeline. Again, he showed the backbone.

So the propaganda wants to show a totally different view. But Trump was a man with backbone and the biggest supporter of Ukraine this time. I hope he will really end the war soon. Probably if he can do it in a Reagan way that brings down the oil prices, then Russia will really stop the war because they are in great trouble. But when the Green Deal continues and oil prices are quite high,

Russia doesn't like to stop the war. The discourse that I hear, especially among conservative circles, is basically without incredible support, Ukraine has no hope here. Ukraine's actually lost out badly in this whole deal. Of course, there's been a lot of death on both sides. That we know. We don't know how much. The information warfare around this whole situation is incredible, and it's very hard to tease it apart. But your point is simply, if oil prices go down, that could just be the end of the war as it is. Yes, Reagan did it once. If you remember that in Afghanistan, Russia lost 12,000 men, a little bit more.

But now they have lost several hundred thousand wounded and dead. So, but still the oil and gas keeps them going. But when you cut off this lifeline, they immediately start to crumble down. Immediately. And they have economic pressure has been not so effective because prices are still high. But they spent half of their reserves during two years. mutta he käsittelevät puolet resursseistaan kaksi vuotta. Tämä on myös yksi rauhan takia, jossa on järjestelmä, koska he käsittelevät miltiin, mutta tämä on aina vaikutus, kun laitetaan suuria raho tank-koneille. Mutta puolesta, luulen, että tämän jakson jälkeen, mitä Putin antoi,

niin Poliisi pitäisi olla paljon huoltaisempi, koska hän sanoi, että Stalin oli oikeassa poliisien osallistumisessa. Hitler oli oikeassa. Joten mitä poliisilaiset miettivät siitä jälkeen? Meidän täytyy valmistella. Tämä on vaikeaa, kun hän on justifioinut Hitleria. So what do Polish people think about after that? We must prepare. This man is dangerous when he's justifying Hitler. Let's see how it will continue. One of the things that Putin talks about in the interview actually is 2014 was a U.S.-backed election. It's described as a coup. The Americans certainly did have significant influence there. We know that this is one of these pieces that is a bit hard to contest

factually. What's your reaction? The question is that Russia considers themselves as the owner of Ukraine. They decide where is the coop or where is not. It's typical slaveholder opinion that we know, but Ukrainians know themselves. They have had several elections and every international observers, they looked at these, were correct and democratic. ja kansainväliset katsojille näytti, että nämä olivat oikeita ja demokratisia. USAissa näimme, että oli suuria haasteita, että mitä näistä valtojen oikeudesta. Mutta Ukraina oli oikeita valtoja ja voimme sanoa, että heillä on pitkän aikaa järjestettyä hallintoa. Tietysti se oli haastava ja erityisen vaarallinen tilanne, kun Russia haastoi Crimeaa. He olivat valmiita pitkään

haastamaan. Heillä oli pitkät suunnitelmat, he vain yritivät löytää tilaa. Mutta edelleen sanon, että mitä he sanovat, voi They only try to find occasion. But still, I say that what they say can be interpreted vice versa. When they say we want peace, it's clear that they want war or peace only under their terms. Vladimir Putin has spoken of Russia, call it imperial or expansionist ambitions, I think repeatedly in his public speeches. So that part isn't necessarily surprising. Yes, but I feel that Russia is a falling empire. Do you remember how long it took to Great Britain, to disintegrate. It was a long, long time. First was the first big colony who became independent was USA. So it took a long time until India became free,

until other colonies became free. How long it took for France, for example, in Algeria, still in the 60s, they had fights there. Esimerkiksi Algeriassa oli vielä 60-luvulla. Ympäristöjä jää yhä vähemmän. Tämä on ajan, kun Ranska vähentää historiallisia suhteita. Ukraina, joka on ortodoksaisten kristianneiden, heillä on samanlainen kieli, he pysyvät russien kautta 100 vuotta. Joten russit luovat haittaa ja yhdistelmää. Tämä on myös se, miten empiari on pysynyt. Ensin he olivat loppuneet heidän kokoomuksensa, kuten Estonia, kaukaisemman maan, sitten he olivat loppuneet satelliitteja,

rikosyksymyksiä Euroopassa, satelliittikäytöksiä kuten Poliisi, Hungariassa ja muissa. Nyt he viedään tämän suurta taitoa, koska nämä maat eivät usko heille. Vain iso alue, joka on käsitellyt, on 9 miljoonaa Belarusia. Mutta näemme, mitä heille tapahtuu vuosien jälkeen. He voivat myös mennä pois, koska Belarusian elit, jotka ovat ulkopuolella, ovat erittäin yksilöitä, suurta suurta kieltä ja Belarussista, joka on melkein vahvistettu Belarussa.

Tämä on se, miten Putin rakentaa sen oma alueensa. Ukrainan on menossa. Yksinomaiset alueet, joiden kohdalla ja terrorissa on kuitenkin terveys, voivat olla rasifikoituneet. Tämä on hyvin pahaa tilannetta, mutta se on siellä. Ukrainan on hyvin vahva kansalliset tunteet. Ja vaikka usein russin puhuvan osalta se on russin käsittely. Irokkalaiset ihmiset ovat menneet kieliään, mutta he ovat irkkalaisia, eivätkä he ole britannia. Ukrainan ihmiset ovat muuttuneet, jotka olivat russin puhujia, even who were Russian speakers, they changed the Ukrainian language because they hate Russia

so much now after the invasion. It's very interesting to see this national awakening in Europe. You've been someone who's been sort of, I guess, an admirer or a supporter of what Pusutsky described as an intermarium. I guess you would call it an alliance. You're a skeptic. The European Union is becoming too much like a sort of federalism, like what the United States has.

You want each of the countries to have more freedom, but at the same time, you support a broad alliance among European states in the form of something like this intermarium, which Piłsudski wanted to form back in the day. Exactly. The cooperation is different. Free, countries together or in federal way in the EU, we or Estonian conservative people's party opposes it heavily. We can't give away our sovereignty. And the EU is becoming more and more federal. This Green Deal is vain rikkoa Euroopan ekonomiaa. Tämä on soviilinen kuusi vuotta suunnitelma. Tämä on niin epäloitua kuin soviilinen ekonomi. Intermariumin puolesta oli vanha idea.

Piłsudski, poliittinen valtionjohtaja ja suuri sotilas, head of state and great war hero from the World War and Independence War, who wanted cooperation, deeper cooperation between countries bordering Russia. He wanted them to block a spread of Bolshevism. It was a very clever idea. It was very difficult to achieve this time because Ukraine was big territory under Soviet control after the domestic war and Ukrainian freedom war. They didn't succeed to keep the independency for a long time this time. And Pilsudski said, let's build between three seas the alliance, Baltic Sea, Black Sea, and Adriatic Sea. And today I am promoter of this, this cooperation with the Baltic states, Poland,i, Tekkiä, Ukrainan. Luulen, että he sopivat hyvin oikean, vahvan ystävyyden.

Ja tämä on Euroopan tulevaisuus. Meillä on myös paljon yhteisöjä Ukrainan puolustusjärjestössä, jossa tämä suurin ryhmä, suurin yhteisö yhdistämisessä Yksilöiden yksilön yksilön yksilön yksilön yksilön yksilön yksilön yksilön yksilön yksilön yksilön yksilön yksilön yksilön yksilön yksilön yksilön yksilön yksilön yksilön yksilön yksilön yksilön yksilön yksilön yksilön yksilön yksilön yksilön yksilön yksilön yksilön yksilön yksilön yksilön yksilön yksilön yksilön yksilön yksilön yksilön yksilön yksilön yksilön yksilön yksilön yksilön yksilön yksilön yksilön yksilön yksilön yksilön yksilön yksilön yksilön yksilön yksilön yksilön yksilön yksilön yksilön yksilön yksilön yksilön yksilön yksilön yksilön yksilön yksilön yksilön yksilön yksilön yksilön yksilön yksilön yksilön yksilön yksilön yksilön yksilön yksilön yksilön yksilön yksilön yksilön yksilön yksilön yksilön yksilön yksilön yksilön yksilön yksilön yksilön yksilön yksilön yksilön yksilön yksilön yksilön yksilön yksilön yksilön yksilön yksilön yksilön yksilön yksilön yksil of the Russian expansionism, and at the same time, they share understanding that the mass immigration, what is in Western Europe, is very dangerous. Poland, Hungary, Bulgaria, Romania, Ukraine, and Czechia, Croatia, these countries have something in common, and I think their cooperation will be a very strong alternative against the federal EU. While they belong to the EU, there must

be some other ways also to cooperate. Fascinating. And I'm just remembering, again, from Tucker Carlson's interview with Vladimir Putin, one of the things he mentions is that ethnic minority nations or groups under Russia are kind of one big happy family. I vaguely recall that. It's not a happy family because it's still still prison of nations. Putin is in control of them. But also now, especially during this war, the smaller nations are in very heavy debt pressure. And these are Bashkirians, these are Siberian nations, and in very bad shape are Finno-Ugric nations, who are all language relatives. So their languages are disappearing because of Putin's policy.

There is no happy family. They are disappearing from the surface of earth. He ovat poistuneet maan ympäristöstä. Tensiä maa poistuu kielen poliisien takia. Heidän kulttuurinen genoositi on hyvin pahaa. Voin sanoa, että suomalaiset maat ovat kielen poistumisessa. of language extinction. This is in big part Putin's politics, because he changed the way how to teach national languages, so theyitä raskasta. Bashkiria on nyt hyvin mutiniollinen. Putin vaihtoi internetin jälkeen, kun oli iso mutinio maailmasta ja joidenkin läheisten jäsenistä. Se oli yleensä vaarallista, koska kun vaatii vaarasta vain,

niin on järjestössä. He vaatii erilaisilla tavalla, mutta niiden kiinnostus Ranskassa on kasvava. Kaukasuussa, Ranskassa on kohdistettu valtioita jo pitkän ajan. Russia is growing. In Caucasus, occupied Caucasus nations, Russia occupied them already a long time ago. And they made a huge ethnic cleansing. For example, some nations were completely annihilated. They fled to Turkey and lived there. Circassians, complete ethnic cleansing. There was no Circassians anymore. They ollut vielä kirkasjoukkia. He olivat vain tullut, käsinneet tai jätettyä pois.

Joten vanhimmat russalaiset valtioiden soviittisessa yhdysvallassa ja myös Zaris-Russissa tunnistivat hyvin vaikeuksia. Heidän omaa omaa omaa omaa. threatened. Their existence was threatened, especially during Soviet times, with the Russification problems and the physical extinction. When you say Russification, you mean this policy of importing ethnic Russians into regions and then having the language be mandatory and the local language outlawed and all these types of policies. I actually remember the time prior to World War I when Poland was occupied by Russia, Germany, Prussia, Germany, and the Austro-Hungarian Empire from the south. It was the Russian and German policies which were of this nature, whereas Polish culture was left alone largely

in the South. Yes, exactly. This is the way Russia works. During the Tsarist time, it was in some extent even better because the peasants' lifestyle didn't change so much. But in Soviet times they threw people to kolkhozist collective farms, it was a complete destruction of the lifestyle also. It has been a very heavy blow.

This is why we know what mass immigration means to Western Europe. This Islamic mass immigration is simply destroying Western Europe under our eyes. We have experienced that. This is overwhelming, overwhelming, massive immigration, and there is no way back. Let's talk just a little bit about what we originally set out to talk to, which is these international health regulations and the WHO treaty. Explain to me how you understand that effort. Who is behind that effort? What is its purpose?

What will it accomplish? I can say that the new centralization wave of these health regulations and pandemic definition Tämä uusi keskustelu terveydenhuollon ja pandemian definiivinen on täysin vääränä, kunnes on ollut todella huonoja kokemuksia COVID-tästä. Kun meillä oli vahvoja loppuja, vahvoja vaktausvaihtoja ja vahvaa vahvistusta, and the limiting of freedoms without reason, the Estonian Conservative People's Party built up a great fight against it, especially mandatory vaccinations. But now we really fight here against the new amendments to the health regulations,

especially concerning shortening the terms. We are very much against that. The EU is negotiating for us. So this kind of important thing must every member state negotiate

themselves. And we need more decentralization because I read the proposals for the new health regulations. They're really strange things. They want to give more power for the WHO Secretary General to define

pandemics, so international health sekretari-generalin, joka määritteli pandemian, niin maailmanlaajuisen terveydenhuoltojen tilanteen. Kun antaisit oikean tyyliä diktatioon, hyvin pienelle ryhmälle, he voivat todella luoda valkoisia pandemioita, vain kyn, koska meillä on todella todellisia kokemuksia. 2009 Euroopassa oli svinen flu-panikko ja maat ostivat paljon vaksinoita ja niin edelleen, mutta mitä se tuli? Outcome was, there was no pandemic. Even the EU institutions created the investigative bodies to investigate the behavior of the WHO in this fake pandemic. Because they supported big pharma in this.

And so even official investigations were made huge huge money for bay was paid for victims for example concerning the narcolepsy narcolepsy countries spent millions of millions uh for fake pandemic and who was a main suspect of creating that. And they are like, in a great sense, they are like agents of big pharma. This is quite a corrupt system. The UN is quite a corrupt system. And the WHO is quite a corrupt system. And a very strange thing happened also in this text. For example, some countries demanded to take out terms like freedom of person, human rights, and replace it with words equity.

Very strange, isn't it? countries must give everything away to the third countries, to these authoritarian regimes who would like not to spend to their own people, but you give away everything. There is a lot of articles where it's written, you shall give away your support, you shall give away your intellectual property for medicine, so on. It's probably it will fail even because of this. It looks very much like a third world is demanding a lot of money from the developed world. But the USA and the European Union countries pay already so much for these countries. mutta USA ja Euroopan unionin maat jo tarjoavat niin paljon näistä maista. Kuinka paljon enemmän? Se on hyvin hauska ja vaikea suunnitelma. Voin sanoa, että meillä on myös Estoniaissa ongelmia, koska emme voi rikosta mitään suverenityötä maailmanlaajuiselle osalle.

Myös WHO, joka on korruptoitu organisaatio, jonka tukena on kainsa, joka on tehnyt monia vääränä pandemianneja parhaan maan parhaan. to peak pharma. And I appreciate Trump's decision to pull out from the WHO. Probably when he wins elections, the WHO plans are completely out. Well, that's very interesting. So you predict that former President Trump will be president again? It will be very difficult for him, but I don't know. The question is simply what the deep state, että tämä on hyvin epäonnistunut, epäonnistunut liikenne. Tämä ei ole oikea politiikka, jotta hänet pysyvät legitimointipolitiikkojen näin, kuten Trumpin.

Tämän takia me luoimme Trumpin tuotantokykyä. Ja myös, että välttämättä tämä vaikea anti-amerikkalaisismi, josta lehtiset alkoivat kivata Amerikasta kaikesta. Ja joten uudet lehtiset ovat valmiita tuoda demokraatt puolustuksen ilmaiseksi. Koska ilmaiseksi puolustuksessa emme ole demokratiaa. Haito on idea amerikkalaisen marxistin Herbert Marcusella. Hän oli tietenkin eurooppalainen emigri. mutta 1965 hän kirjoitti rauhallisen pamflin, repressiivisen toleranssin. Ja tämän ajan he yrittivät silmätä konservatiivisia. He sanoivat, että kyllä, me olemme tolerantteja, mutta kaikki muu pitäisi olla silmätä.

Vain vasemmalla voi puhua. Meillä on 10 vihreä vihreä. Mutta kaikki muu vihreä, ne pitää lopettaa, koska me olemme toleraaneja vain vihreille. Todella vaarallinen aika. Näen demokraattisen jäädyn monissa eurooppalaisissa maissa. I see the downfall of democracy in many European countries. And my main hope is to Eastern European countries who remember how bad it was under Soviet system or communist system to be their satellites, to lose their freedoms.

You've identified kind of this globalist and slash Frankfurt School slash internationalist agenda that you want a bunch of states to stand against. It seems like Russia is actually trying to stand against that system as well at the moment. How do you react to that? This is Fassade from their point of view. Their real core is imperial might. When they speak, they are Christians, quite fake Christianity.

But I can say that they point, why they speak sometimes about this LGTB questions here, they really want to use the weak points of their adversaries. They show your weak points, of course. When the West is making stupidness, only stupid things, and speaking about LGTB not preparing their security for threats, our enemy is laughing about you. Of course, of course, they are very happy that Westies are destroying themselves with their own hands.

They're very happy to show that, boys, you are very stupid. We are good Christians. You are very stupid. You know, I mentioned a little bit earlier in the discussion that the information warfare here at the current time is massive. Every large player has, let's call it, a potent game. So some American conservatives, they'll be more open-minded to the kind of information warfare that might come from the Russian side, because they know for sure what's coming from the, let's call it the globalist side, is wrong and has caused incredible damage, whether it's around COVID messaging or any number of things.

This Trump-Russia collusion narrative, Russiagate, all of that and a lot more. It's almost like we can get trapped in this binary thinking where if I know this is bad, then the alternative being offered to me is good. It seems to me like things are just often more complicated as we've been discussing today. My question is, what advice would you offer to American conservatives as they're trying to figure out what to think of all this? From my point of view, you remember your history. You had 13 colonies who were no state, no nation, but you fight your way out to be one of the best countries in the world. And Ukraine has the same

destiny. I think Russia considers them no state, no nation, but they fight for death. They want to be a state, they want to be a nation, and they must be supported, but in a prudent way. Not spend money to run places, help with diplomacy, help with international law, with your weapons, of course. America has been highly important, but also not give up to left loonies, who want to, after Ukrainians win the war, to take their rights away very soon, and start repressive tolerance, lgbt rights, whatever stupid thing. And American conservatives can give the good example what the freedom really is. And first of all look to Epoch Times because Estonian conservatives look to that.

It means that USA still have free speech. Russia don't have. Of course, you have problems with free speech. USA has certain hate laws also. But until you have Epoch Times, the fourth biggest outlet, you have Fox News, then you can compare the information, of course. Any final thoughts as we finish, Antti? It's almost the same what I told that the American history for the last 50 years will show how your nice society is infiltrated by communist forces. And all these vokisms are very dangerous and they're bringing down USA. The freedom of science is threatened in universities.

It's unbelievable. on vaikeaa yliopistoissa. Se on uskomatonta. Suurta yliopistosta, Harvardista ja muista on vaikeaa. Ja miksi me Estoniaan, pienestä Estoniaan voimme vaikuttaa sanoa jotain yhdysvaltalaisille? Ehkä myös, koska me olemme osa repressiivisesta soviittisesta because we were part of repressive Soviet system without freedoms. And we were also part of the Soviet taxpayers. All money was sent to your subversion. So I hope we can help also say a word that USA will flourish again, be great again. Well, Antti Polamets, such a pleasure to have had you on.

Thank you, Jan. Thank you all for joining Antti Polamets and me on this episode of American Thought Leaders. I'm your host, Jan Jekielek.