An Army of Normal Folks - A Family's Commitment to the City That Saved Their Son (Pt 1)

Episode Date: October 22, 2024

Pedro Velasquez Jr was diagnosed with leukemia when was 5 years old. His dad Dr. Pedro Sr. pleaded to God that if St. Jude saved his life, he would dedicate his life to the Memphis community that was there for them. He founded Lifedoc Heath, which has helped 1,100 patients a week improve their health outcomes so much that their cost of care has plummeted by 27%! Support the show: https://www.normalfolks.us/premiumSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

I wasn't a very religious guy. I still know a very religious guy, but I respect and I trust God. And I think that trusting God allows me to get the hopes, the miracles that we need, and He is a proof of miracles. So I promise God that if He is perpetually, So, I promise God that if He is prepared, I will dedicate my career, my resources, my knowledge, all that I have to give back to Memphis. Welcome to an Army of normal folks. I'm Bill Courtney. I'm a normal guy. I'm a husband. I'm a father.

I'm an entrepreneur. And I've been a football coach in inner city Memphis. That last part somehow led to an Oscar for the film about our team. That movie is called Undefeated. Y'all, I believe our country's problems will never be solved by a bunch of fancy people in nice suits talking big words that nobody understands on CNN and Fox,

but rather by an army of normal folks. Y'all, that's us, just you and me, deciding, hey, I can help. That's exactly what Dr. Pedro Velazquez and his son Pedro Jr. have done. Jr. was diagnosed with leukemia when he was five years old, and his life was saved by St. Jude right here in Memphis, leading these Venezuelan natives to dedicate their lives to the community that was there for them. They founded Life Doc Health,

which is focused on something that isn't focused on enough, prevention. Specifically, the prevention of diabetes, obesity, and hypertension among underserved folks. They serve up to 1,100 patients every week and have helped them to improve their health outcomes so much that they've seen a 27% reduction in the cost of care for them.

I cannot wait for you to meet the two Pedro's right after these brief messages from our generous sponsors. On Thanksgiving Day, 1999, a five-year-old boy floated alone in the ocean. He had lost his mother trying to reach Florida from Cuba. He looked like a little angel. I mean, he looked so fresh. And his name, Elian Gonzalez,

will make headlines everywhere. Elian Gonzalez. Elian, Elian. Elian Gonzalez. Elian. Elian. Elian Gonzalez. At the heart of the story is a young boy

and the question of who he belongs with. His father in Cuba. Mr. Gonzalez wanted to go home and he wanted to take your son with him. Or his relatives in Miami. Imagine that your mother died trying to get you to freedom. At the heart of it all is still this painful family separation, something that as a Cuban, I know all too well. Listen to Chess Piece, the Elian Gonzalez story, as part of the MyCultura podcast network, available on the iHeart radio app, Apple podcasts,

or wherever you get your podcasts. Do you ever wonder where your favorite foods come from? Like, what's the history behind bacon-wrapped hot dogs? Hi, I'm Eva Longoria. Hi, I'm Maite Gomez-Rejón. Our podcast, Hungry for History, is back. Season two, season two. Are we recording? Are we good?

Oh, we push record, right? Okay. And this season, we're taking a bigger bite out of the most delicious food and its history. Seeing that the most popular cocktail is the Margarita, followed by the Mojito from Cuba and the Piñuco Lada from Puerto Rico. Oh, also. So all of these things. We have, we thank Latin culture. This is Margarita, followed by the Mojito from Cuba, and the piñacolada from Puerto Rico.

So all of these things. We thank Latin culture. There's a mention of blood sausage in Homer's Odyssey that dates back to the ninth century BC. BC? I didn't realize how old the hot dog was. Listen to Hungry for History as part of the My Kultura podcast network, available on the iHeart radio app,

Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Muhammad Ali, George Foreman, James Brown, B.B. King, Miriam Makeba. I shook up the world. James Brown said, said love. And Mekia said, I'm black and I'm proud. Black boxing stars and black music royalty together in the heart of Zaire, Africa. Three days of music and then the boxing event.

What was going on in the world at the time made this fight as important as anything else is going on on the planet. My grandfather laid on the ropes and let George Foreman basically just punch himself out. Welcome to Rumble, the story of a world in transformation. The 60s and prior to that, you couldn't call a person black. And how we arrived at this peak moment. I don't have to be what you want me to be.

We all came from the continent of Africa. Listen to Rumble, Ali, Foreman, and the soul of 74 on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey everyone, it's Katie Couric. Well, the election is in the home stretch and I'm exhausted. But turns out the end is near, right in time for a new season of my podcast, Next Question. This podcast is for people like me who need a little perspective and insight.

I'm bringing in some FOKs, friends of Katie's, to help me out like Ezra Klein, Van Jones, Jen Psaki, Ested Herndon. But we're also going to have some some fun even though these days fun and politics seems like an oxymoron but we'll do that thanks to some of my friends like Samantha Bee, Roy Wood Jr. and Charlemagne the God. We're gonna take some viewer questions as well I mean isn't that what democracy is all about? Power to the podcast for the people. So whether you're obsessed with the news or just trying to figure out what's going on,

this season of Next Question is for you. Check out our new season of Next Question with me, Katie Couric, on the iHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Malcolm Gladwell. 25 years ago, I wrote my first book called The Tipping Point. All about the moments when an idea or trend crosses a certain threshold and spreads like wildfire.

I've had a lot of time to think about that book and the way I thought about tipping points changed. So now I'm releasing the sequel, Revenge of the Tipping Point, where I return to the subjects of social epidemics and the dark side of contagious phenomenon. You can hear a sneak peek of the audiobook on my podcast, Revisionist History. Plus, we'll dive into a duo of narrative episodes about my favorite trial in American history

and a reevaluation of the broken windows theory I explored in my first book. Find Revenge of the Tipping Point wherever you get your audiobooks and listen to Revisionist History on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. Well, the first time I've had two guests, both named Pedro. Welcome, Pedro and Pedro. Thank you. Thank you for having us.

Yeah, we got a Pedro Senior and a Pedro Junior. We'll get to Pedro Junior in a second. Pedro Senior, you're from Venezuela? Born and raised, huh? Born and raised. How did you grow up? I actually grew up in the east part of my country. It's an agriculture town, Monagas. How did you grow up? I actually grew up in the east part of my country.

It's an agriculture town, Monagas. And the city is Maturin. The state is Monagas. I come from a family of business. I mean, my father used to work in bank, and then he become independent, and gas station, and oil cell and car. She was an entrepreneur it sounds like.

It was, it was. And they came from very relatively low income family but they worked hard and they were able to give off a good education and send us to better places. You grew up there and he sent you to this little known college that nobody's ever heard of called Harvard. Actually I went from the main university in my country, that is, it's a university central of Venezuela. This is where the main school of medicine is. So I got involved in public health because I was

probably the youngest general director of NIH, similar to here, the NIH. And I get committed there with a condition that I want to be trained in America. So I asked the president that I will help him in the, I said that. You asked the president. Of the NIH, I was the general director. The NIH in Venezuela. In Venezuela, I asked if I support him,

and I do, I'd love to get the opportunity to be trained in America. So it was like the hallmark if you want to break the standard there, you need to be training here at that time it was. So I came, I was selected by a scholarship program that is called Las Pal, Latino American scholarship program. That is, it was managed by Harvard and they gave me the opportunity to come here. And then I stay here for training for three years. And then I went back to my country because my whole idea was to develop a diabetes center in my country that we didn't have there. So there was no diabetes center in my country that we didn't have there.

So there was no diabetes center in all of Venezuela? There is no. Actually, there is a few clinics. There is well-trained physician, but as a diabetes center, as a resource center, it doesn't exist. Up to date, it doesn't exist. All right. So you grow up in Venezuela from kind of a lower income family, your father works hard,

then you go to medical school in Venezuela, and then the president of the National Health Organization of Venezuela says, okay, if you want to get trained in the United States, you can go, but you come back here and use what you learned to help the Venezuela medical community and you go to Harvard of all places. Did you speak very good English at the time? No, I didn't. Actually, it was a funny story because most of my career was done in English. I studied for the same book, but we read English, but I didn't speak English.

So I came for the interview, and I came with my wife Astrid, and I was in the red line of the tea, and then I don't know how to talk. It was funny because I read, I understand, but I wasn't able to keep our conversation. Actually, she did the conversation. How in the world did you go to Harvard? Could you understand spoken English? No, I just came from the interview. And then they like what my goal was in Venezuela and we make a commitment. So if I speak English by the time,

I will be able to get accepted in the fellowship. So it is interesting because I came in January, the fellows was supposed to start in July and I came in January and I got immersed in private with private teacher. I went to public school in English. I went to, I did a training in technology, computing, everything that somebody in English so I can get the language. When I went there, I go 128 channels, no one in Spanish. So I worked

hard to get it. And I went volunteer and I was a volunteer on the VA hospital in Jamaica Plain in Boston also to be sure that I start to get into the system. So by July I was speaking English. Unbelievable. Pedro Jr., your dad is not a dumb person, is he? Pretty smart guy. No. Come from Venezuela, learn to speak English in five months to be able to get accepted to Harvard and does.

And then your wife also went to Harvard. She did. She did a fellowship. Also from Venezuela. She's also from, she's a radiologist. And she did a fellowship in Mass General of head and neck radiology. Unbelievable.

She speaks English. She went to the school from kinder. She was able, she speak very good English when she came here. So phenomenal. What an amazing story. You and your wife from Venezuela figure out how to get to the United States.

You both leave Harvard and go back to Venezuela as doctors. And your dream is to start a diabetes center in Venezuela because there may be small clinics, but there's nowhere that really the whole country, you are going to be on the front lines of diabetes care for your whole country. Exactly. We have a high prevalence of diabetes in Venezuela, Hispanic, other high-risk. And in Venezuela, there was no one. At that time, it was like 24 million people, country, the population, and there was no one single.

So how old were you when you went back to Venezuela after Harvard to start this dream? I came to Boston and I was 33 years. 33. I already finished my internal medicine resident. I did a year of cardiology and then I went to do, I went to private practice and to be the general director of the NIH in my country. Okay, so young 30s, got a great education, a great opportunity to do something extraordinary for your country and you're headed down that road and you do what married couples do

and you start your family. And you have this guy over here sitting on your right, Pedro Jr. and you have this guy over here sitting on your right, Pedro Jr. Actually, it's true, I have four children. Four children. Four children, and with my wife, and I, ideally when I got the scholarship,

we sold one of our business, and we choose to invest in the education of the whole family. So I said, I have the opportunity, but we want to make this a family project. So assuming that I will go back. Right. And, and we did, I mean, they have the opportunity to come to do, to go to good school, good kinder, get everybody spoke English by the time that they

came back to my country. get everybody spoke English by the time that they came back to my country. But it was a family project, so it turned something that was related to a career to a family project and it just cost me one business. So beautiful. Life is great. Life is great. Life is great. We're in Venezuela, you're head of the diabetes thing, you've got the Harvard thing, you've

got your wife, you've got your family, everybody's going, you're gonna be great. And then? I mean, I have the opportunity to work, I have the opportunity to work for the two major hospital there, private hospital. And my wife called me that Pedro wasn't feeling well. How old was Pedro?

Five. Pedro was five years old? Five years old. And he wasn't feeling well? He wasn't feeling well. Well, if you're sick, it's good to have two parents as doctors. Exactly. So she...

They wouldn't let you call off miss school very easily though. The thermometer on the light bulb didn't work growing up. You guys, the four of you didn't grow up saying, hey, I don't feel so good today. That didn't watch it your house, did it? No, that didn't apply. Actually, this is true. She brought Pedro to the clinic and the team of infectious disease and hematology came with a diagnosis of leukemia in less than 24 hours.

Leukemia. Leukemia. So he went, you went from having life going great and your five-year-old son to 24 hours later he has now leukemia. Leukemia. Leukemia. And one of the worst leukemia that actually, at that time, she was a T cell leukemia. Ideally, my mind was, let's go back to Boston, to Jimmy Foundation, down the forward. However, my pediatrician, the pediatrician, Pedro, have a great relationship with a guy from San Juan that also was a Venezuelan doctor. And he said the best statistic for the type of disease

that you're seeing is here at San Juan. So we were lucky because first of all, we left everything. I left from the clinic to Memphis. I didn't have the opportunity to go to pick up anything in my house. And you go from everything's on schedule to 24 hours later going to St. Jude in Memphis

to save your son's life. It is, that's it. Pedro Jr., you were five. Do you remember this? So I remember the green jello that I couldn't keep down. I remember bits and pieces of my pediatrician over there, Dr. Clinton. And-

Dr. Who? Clinton. No. No? It was Milton. Milton. Milton Grushka. Yeah? It was Milton. Milton. Yeah. Milton Grushka.

Yeah, Milton, sorry. And then I remember landing in Memphis because we were staying at the Ronald McDonald House so we got picked up. The Ronald McDonald House is, so that everybody listening from across the country understands, at St. Jude, not only is it the world's foremost facility

for pediatric cancer care, nobody pays a single penny out of their pocket for the care, or if they're from out of the country or wherever, their housing, nothing. St. Jude covers 100% of all the expenses. And so the Ronald McDonald House is something that obviously the McDonald's Corporation donated to St. Jude for housing for families and children

going through care at St. Jude's. And there was a Venezuelan family that was here before us. Another Venezuelan family, really. And you know, even back then, St. Jude just connected dots that people weren't really connecting and so they had asked the Venezuelan family to take care of us while we got here and connected us and so what the first night that we landed we went to the hospital that's when you know I started meeting the care team

dr. Pui who's still at st. Jude. Dr. Pui is still around. Yeah, he sure is a fantastic guy. Yeah, he hasn't aged much in the 27 years that I've known him. So they need to do some research on that too. And now a few messages from our generous sponsors, but first I got something really cool to tell you about. We're hosting our second ever live interview. We're doing it in Memphis on November 7th with Todd Comer-Nickey. This guy is the director of one of the most

thought-provoking, inspiring, deep movies ever made. One of my favorites, Elf. But he's also the writer of Sully, and now he is the director of Angel Studios' upcoming film, Bonhoeffer, Pastor, Spy, Assassin. Dietrich Bonhoeffer was a German pastor who tried to rally the church to stop Hitler. He was involved in Operation Seven,

which was an operation to smuggle Jews into neutral Switzerland to ultimately save their life. And then he joined the famous Valkyrie Plot, which was the plot to assassinate Hitler. And he was executed in a concentration camp for his involvement in that. He's one of the most epic examples of what we're looking for.

An ordinary person who lived an extraordinary life of service all the way to the point of death. And I hope you can join us to get inspired and meet the incredible director that is now telling Pastor Dietrich Bonhoeffer's story. You can RSVP for free tickets, free tickets, at bonhoefferdirector.eventbrite.com. That's B-O-N-H-O-E-F-F-E-R director.eventbrite.com.

In Memphis on November 7th. It should be a good night. We'll be right back. On Thanksgiving Day 1999, a five-year-old boy floated alone in the ocean. He had lost his mother trying to reach Florida from Cuba. He looked like a little angel. I mean, he looked so fresh. And his name, Elian Gonzalez, will make headlines everywhere. Elian Gonzalez.

Elian Gonzalez. Elian Gonzalez. At the heart of the story is a young boy and the question of who he belongs with. His father in Cuba. Mr. Gonzalez wanted to go home and he wanted to take his son with him. Or his relatives in Miami. Imagine that your mother died trying to get you to freedom. At the heart of it all is still this painful family separation.

Something that as a Cuban, I know all too well. Listen to Chess Piece, the Elian Gonzalez story, as part of the MyCultura podcast network, available on the iHeart radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Do you ever wonder where your favorite foods come from? Like what's the history behind bacon wrapped hot dogs? Hi, I'm Eva Longoria.

Hi, I'm Maite Gomez-Rejón. Our podcast Hungry for History is back. Season two, season two. Are we recording? Are we good? Oh, we push record, right? Hungry for history is back. Season two, season two. Are we recording? Are we good? Oh, we push record, right?

And this season, we're taking a bigger bite out of the most delicious food and its history. Saying that the most popular cocktail is the Margarita, followed by the Mojito from Cuba, and the piñuculada from Puerto Rico. So all of these, we Latin... We thank Latin culture. There's a mention of blood sausage in Homer's Odyssey that dates back to the ninth century BC.

BC? I didn't realize how old the hot dog was. Listen to Hungry for History as part of the MyCultura podcast network, available on the iHeart radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Muhammad Ali, George Foreman James Brown BB King Miriam Mekiba.

Jane Brown says said and the kids said I'm black and I'm proud black boxing stars and black music royalty together in the heart of Zaire Africa. 3 days of music and then the boxing event. What was going on in the world at the time made this fight as important that anything else is going on on the planet. My grandfather laid on the ropes

and let George Foreman basically just punch himself out. Welcome to Rumble, the story of a world in transformation. The 60s and prior to that, you couldn't call a person black. And how we arrived at this peak moment. I don't have to be what you want me to be. We all came from the continent of Africa. Listen to Rumble, Ali, Foreman, and the Soul of 74 on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey everyone, it's Katie Couric. Well, the election is in the home stretch and I'm exhausted. But turns out the end is near, right in time for a new season of my podcast, Next Question. This podcast is for people like me who need a little perspective and insight. I'm bringing in some FOKs, friends of Katie's to help me out like Ezra Klein, Van Jones, Jen Psaki, Ested Herndon. But we're also going to have some fun,

even though these days fun and politics seems like an oxymoron. But we'll do that thanks to some of my friends like Samantha B., Roy Wood Jr., and Charlemagne the God. We're going to take some viewer questions as well. I mean, isn't that what democracy is all about? Power to the podcast for the people. So whether you're obsessed with the news or just trying to figure out what's going on, this season of Next Question is for you.

Check out our new season of Next Question with me, Katie Couric, on the iHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Malcolm Gladwell. 25 years ago, I wrote my first book called The Tipping Point, all about the moments when an idea or trend crosses a certain threshold and spreads like wildfire. I've had a lot of time to think about that book and the way I thought about Tipping Points changed. So now I'm releasing the sequel, Revenge of the Tipping Point, where I return to the subjects of social epidemics and the dark side of contagious phenomena.

You can hear a sneak peek of the audiobook on my podcast, Revisionist History. Plus, we'll dive into a duo of narrative episodes about my favorite trial in American history and a reevaluation of the broken windows theory I explored in my first book. Find Revenge of the Tipping Point wherever you get your audiobooks and listen to Revisionist History on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. So you remember these things? Were you scared? Did you even, as a five year old, do you even comprehend what's going on? No, actually, I don't remember being scared often until my relapse, because my parents were always very intentional about not really giving the thought of death a place in my

mind, you know, competitively with my brothers growing up. I wasn't expecting, nothing less was expected of me in school Sports or anything like that. So we never really entertained The idea that something else would happen at least directly with me They had those concerns on their own and they didn't really Build that in dr. Pooey on the other hand. He was very straightforward with me as a patient even as a five-year-old I can remember him sort of talking about risks and what the disease is and different things and really interesting because my parents would be in the room, but then he'd also be

talking to me. That is another thing that's really interesting about the doctors and the nurses and the care of St. Jude. They treat these little people with so much respect that they trust them with the truth, even though the truth is often dire. And it's a whole thing of expectations, right? You feel sort of like a calm when someone can lay out

what's happening and what we're gonna do about it. So Pedro Sr., you and your wife, you guys are doctors. She's a radiologist. You guys are well-trained doctors. You knew your kid had leukemia. Actually, yes. When we came to the hospital, actually, they asked many questions.

And actually, when he was in the process of placing the cath for the chemotherapy, they allowed us to go into the OR, the operating room. And he developed cardiac arrest in front of us. He developed? Cardiac arrest, he went blank. His heart stopped. The tumor that he had in the chest compressed his heart and we were just looking at it. So, Astrid and I were dying.

He was in cardiac arrest? During the process of the, when they were doing the anesthesia. We were in the exam room with him. And as a doctor, as an observer, they allow us to go. Actually I didn't ask. It was so comprehensive and they consider our training of value. They allow us to go.

They asked and we wanted to support Pedro as much as we can. And it was an experience that changed the way that we see life. Which, here we are this many years later and that experience that changed life has led to so much that we're gonna get to, but we gotta set it up first. And then you go through treatment.

And also it's important to see that the way that we raise Pedro and the rest of the family is that we have a child with cancer. The family doesn't have cancer. So we move far from the hospital, even though we have to commute. I start to work for the University of Tennessee in the research line. But Pedro was a normal child. Actually, when he needed to be slapped, he got slapped. And I remember that he mentioned to me...

When Pedro needed to get slapped, he got slapped. Absolutely. You may be a child with cancer, but you're still going to act right. And he needed to be competitive. And he said to me, this is what you want me to, this is what you want to save me, right? To hit me. He wanted, he manipulated every single last one. So, but it's also making him normal. He never lost his place and I have only boys.

So very competitive boys. That's really profound. We have a child with cancer, but our family doesn't have cancer. Exactly. And you're going to operate as normally as possible, and you're not gonna let Pedro even use leukemia as an excuse.

And that's it. Actually, when he get, he was at Chimney Rock at that time. That's a school at the East. We never allowed for have home schooling for him. So we talked to the school and during the lunchtime that when he was in suppressed with the accounts, blood cells and low, they allow him to go take the test at the school. Meanwhile, the other kids were at lunch, so he wouldn't get sick. But we never allow him to become different than the rest of the kids.

You weren't going to allow him to be a victim of anything. Absolutely. And not on my kids. Back when I was a student at Chimney Rock, actually, it's an interesting story because we lived close to it and it was maybe a half mile away. And most kids would ride their bikes to school. And sometimes with the chemo and radiation, I was very, very weak to be able to do that. But they would still push me to get on the

bike. And I didn't really know it at the time, but my mom would follow me in the car while my brother and I were going to the school on our bicycles. Do you realize how fortunate you are to have parents like that? That pushed you that way, but followed behind you closely to make sure you really were going to be okay. That is beautiful. Any opportunity I have to speak about the experience while we were here and while we were growing and all that definitely highlights how my parents handled the situation. Amazing. So you get treatment and you think everything's good, but Pedro Jr. just told us there was a relapse. So ideally I was hoping that we want to go back to Venezuela. I have my clinic. I have it. And everything will continue. But we took like four months.

We went. We start to... You went back to Venezuela? Went back just to test. How long was the first treatment? It was about two years, two year and a half. Oh my goodness. So two years.

And then the whole family back to Venezuela, back to the diabetes clinic, back to your normal... I mean, we didn't go back. Venezuela, back to the diabetes clinic, back to your normal... I mean, we didn't go back. We went back to get things ready. So meanwhile, we get a transition of four, six months. And in these... For the first few months, the follow up, even when you're on remission, they see you every week and every two weeks and once a month.

So it wasn't an immediate plan to go back, but they were getting things ready. But you were, you were in quote remission and everybody was thinking, okay, we've got past it. So now you've gone back to Venezuela, gonna start back where we were two years ago, get the clinic going and go. And then I find out that he was developing a mass.

A mass where? I mean in the testing. Wow. And it was something that is relatively normal and relapse. Oh, it's not normal. It's expected. It was slow growth. But it took about 48 hours for me to realize that we need to look for something. Because the leukemia that he had made relapse in the area in the brain. It's more common. So we went back to Dr. Poole.

Wow. Now you had to really be scared. We were scared. And this is the truth. Because of his experience, when we were at St. Jude, this is something that actually I hope that not many people can go through this. He saw that he also got scared. And he asked me, now I'm going to die. This was the...

Who said that? Pedro. Pedro said to you, am I going to die? Now is my time. Now I'm going to die. You were seven then. Do you remember at seven thinking you were going to die? Yeah, it was just him and me in the exam room. so Dr. Pooley had just come in and told us and you know initially my first questions were so because during treatment you can't play with animals you can't get in the pool because of the catheter and so you know when I started

asking him questions around am I gonna so I can't have a dog anymore or I can't play in the pool and then he sort of got into the nitty gritty of what a relapse meant. He was always very straightforward, which I appreciated, like I said. And so that's when he left the room that I asked my dad if that meant that I was gonna die. And it's because-

Forget being a doctor for a second. I never play a doctor with him. I never play a doctor with him. I choose to be a father. Right. But what happens when your seven-year-old who's already been through two years of chemotherapy, did you lose your hair and all that? Not the first time around. Okay. But been through two years of chemotherapy and then he looks at you with his eyes, your son, and says, am I going to die? Then he looks at you with his eyes, your son, and says, am I going to die? What do you say?

I think that Pedro and I have great communication. Probably one of my problems is that most of the chemotherapy, he and I work together and we develop a strong bond. So I think that my reaction was to tell the truth. I will do what I need to do. I don't think that we need to be optimistic. We need to assure that you're going to get the best treatment. Actually, Dr. Pue approached me and said, what do you think? Do we need to change the treatment? I agree that he relapsed so fast that you probably need, you are entitled to change doctor.

And my reaction was, we've been trusting you, I trust you, I don't think that anybody in the world would provide better care than you. We wanna go back together to this. So with Pedro, I tried to present him a realistic point of view and with hope that we want to to Pedro and I tried to talk to God. As I said, because I wasn't a very religious guy, I still know I'm a very religious guy, but I respect and I trust God.

And I think that trusting God allowed me to get the hopes, the miracle that we need and he is a proof of miracle. So I promise God that if he is prepared, I will dedicate my career, my resources, my knowledge, all what I have to give back to Memphis. To give back to Memphis. Memphis. Why Memphis? Because Memphis has been the place that gave us hope in the moment that we didn't have

too much. Memphis was the place that I realized that there was opportunity for us to help people. Memphis also, we have the experience to see poor people helping us, but also when we were in Ronald McDonald, we saw several CEOs of the company cooking burgers for us with passion. This giving that I got from here established some type of commitment that has been probably the driver of our family in all the things that we do. If you go to my house,

you will see a commission art that says Memphis is magic. And I have, for all, have been magic. And it's everything that we are thankful for being in Memphis. So your son relapses. He's already been two years a St. Jude, and you make a deal with God. If you spare my son everything I've learned and everything I know and everything I do

from this point forward, I will spend my entire life giving back to this city. My money, my... whatever I need to do. And this is what I've been doing since Pedro has been killed. We'll be right back. We'll be right back. On Thanksgiving Day 1999, a five-year-old boy floated alone in the ocean. He had lost his mother trying to reach Florida from Cuba. He looked like a little angel. I mean, he looked so fresh. And his name, Elian Gonzalez, will make headlines everywhere.

Elian Gonzalez. Elian Gonzalez. Elian Gonzalez. Elian Gonzalez. At the heart of the story is a young boy and the question of who he belongs with. His father in Cuba. Mr. Gonzalez wanted to go home and he wanted to take his son with him. Or his relatives in Miami. Imagine that your mother died trying to get you to freedom.

At the heart of it all is still this painful family separation. Something that as a Cuban, I know all too well. Listen to Chess Piece, the Elian Gonzalez story, as part of the My Cultura podcast network, available on the iHeart radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Muhammad Ali, George Foreman, James Brown, B.B. King, Miriam Makeba.

I shook up the world. James Brown said, said loud. And the kid said, I'm black and I'm proud. Black boxing stars and black music royalty, together in the heart of Zaire, Africa. Three days of music and then the boxing event. What was going on in the world at the time made this fight as important

as anything else is going on on the planet. My grandfather laid on the ropes and let George Foreman basically just punch himself out. Welcome to Rumble, the story of a world in transformation. The 60s and prior to that, you couldn't call a person black. And how we arrived at this peak moment. I don't have to be what you want me to be. We all came from the continent of Africa.

Listen to Rumble, Ali, Foreman, and the Soul of 74 on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Do you ever wonder where your favorite foods come from? Like what's the history behind bacon wrapped hot dogs? Hi, I'm Eva Longoria. Hi, I'm Maite Gomez-Rejon. Our podcast Hungry for History is back.

Season two, season two. Are we recording? Are we good? Oh, we pushed record, right? Hungry for history is back. Season two, season two. Are we recording? Are we good? Oh, we push record, right? Okay. And this season we're taking an even bigger bite out of the most delicious food and its history.

Seeing that the most popular cocktail is the Margarita, followed by the Mojito from Cuba and the Pinyo Colada from Puerto Rico. So all of these, We thank Latin culture. There's a mention of blood sausage in Homer's Odyssey that dates back to the ninth century BC. BC? I didn't realize how old the hot dog was.

Listen to Hungry for History as part of the MyCultura podcast network, available on the iHeart radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey everyone, it's Katie Couric. Well, the election is in the home stretch and I'm exhausted. But turns out the end is near right in time for a new season of my podcast. Next question.

This podcast is for people like me who need a little perspective and insight. I'm bringing in some FOKs, friends of Katie's, to help me out like Ezra Klein, Van Jones, Jen Psaki, Astaad Herndon. But we're also going to have some fun, even though these days fun and politics seems like an oxymoron. But we'll do that thanks to some of my friends like Samantha B, Roy Wood Jr. and Charlamagne the God. We're going to take some viewer questions as well. I mean, isn't that what democracy is all about? Power to the podcast for the people. So whether you're obsessed with the news or just trying to figure out what's going on, this season of Next Question is for you. Check out our new season of Next Question with me,

Katie Couric, on the iHeart Radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Malcolm Gladwell. 25 years ago, I wrote my first book called The Tipping Point. All about the moments when an idea or trend crosses a certain threshold and spreads like wildfire. I've had a lot of time to think about that book, and the way I thought about Tipping Points changed. So now I'm releasing the sequel, Revenge of the Tipping Point, where I return to the subjects of social epidemics and the

dark side of contagious phenomena. You can hear a sneak peek of the audiobook on my podcast, Revisionist History. Plus, we'll dive into a duo of narrative episodes about my favorite trial in American history and a reevaluation of the broken windows theory I explored in my first book. Find Revenge of the Tipping Point wherever you get your audiobooks and listen to Revisionist History on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. So Pedro was scared because you're here. There's not a ghost talking on the other mic.

How many, so how long, how much longer was the treatment? It was like a year and a half. Another year and a half. Yeah. So from five until about the age of ten, you were in and out of St. Jude being treated for leukemia. Last chemotherapy was in February 22nd 1999, no 2001. Wow. And then it becomes the second birthday for Pedro. So I might have the second birthday, the second birthday. So we celebrate his second birthday every single year. That is phenomenal. How much do you think his care cost?

He knows the number perfect. It was around two million dollars. Two million dollars. Yeah, the average cost per year is 400,000 a year. And you know, we didn't have to put a dollar towards that. And that's just care that doesn't include housing and all the other things that Memphis and St. Jude did. And I say Memphis because you know even when we landed we, like the first sofas and cooking utensils was donated by a church here. We were given the opportunity to sort of, for my dad to study, to do his

licensing here, for my mom to take care of us and raise us. Yeah, because even though you were trained in Harvard, you were licensed in Venezuela. So when you first came back to the States, you couldn't even practice medicine. You had to get relicensed in the United States. It's a little bit more complex than that. What's that?

It's a little bit more complex than that. I came here with a J-1 visa training. J-1, you cannot apply to a job here until you spend two years serving your country. Oh my gosh. So I couldn't. I have to apply for a waiver. Okay?

I couldn't work. I couldn't apply to anything until I served my country for two years, and he relapsed when I was there six months. So it went a rough process because I need to apply for a waiver. I paid that scholarship totally back in full I Start to do you have to pay the Venezuela back for your scholarship. So in order for me to get my waiver To be able to then practice medicine here in America, and this is a Harvard trained University of Tennessee, and would your wife have to have the same thing? No, my wife wasn't practice medicine. Here in America. And this is a Harvard trained man.

University of Tennessee. And would your wife have to have the same thing? No, my wife wasn't, she didn't, she wasn't in a scholarship. Okay. So, but you had to pay back Venezuela. I pay back as a part of the requirement in order for them to give me the waiver to apply for a job before the two years of serving my country. While your son is being treated for cancer.

What are you doing in the meantime? Your research assistant? Initially, we were organizing the family. Actually Pedro and I and my wife left. When Pedro got sick, my wife just delivered a baby, five weeks baby. So we left with the family. And Pedro, my wife and I came here.

Initially, I couldn't work. I organized things. I tried to get things straight on how we organized. I flew at the end of May to pick the rest of the family, to reunite the family. And then I applied for that research position at UT. I think that UT, one of the doctors got a grant. Being in pediatric, they got a grant for adult obesity. They didn't have too much experience in adult endocrinology, so I worked.

Was hired as a research assistant. A research, what did that pay? $15, $20? $44,000. $44,000. This is the only thing that they pay. $44,000 for a Harvard trade-off. they pay. $44,000 for Harvard Trade-Out. And I accepted with a few conditions.

So first of all, the visa, working visa, faculty position. And the third one, if they like my work, I will double my salary next year based on results. So I took it and I doubled my salary and I got my faculty appointment. We went from there. So what you're saying is Pedro Jr. not just Memphis and St. Jude,

but everything from utensils, couches, to actually an opportunity to job, to then get licensed to be everything. We own a beautiful penthouse in my country and we just took two cars. Everything was from New England and take out in 48 hours I learned there that we can go from one place to another when the health is compromised. So I part of my commitment with God that I'm gonna go through the route and I will accept this, I will take any commitment

to demonstrate that I'm willing to do whatever. And this is all because of a deal you made that if you spare my son, I will be in Memphis. The Sacred Heart Church in Cleveland gave me some cups, some furniture, something. I didn't want to spend extra because I didn't know how long it will take for me to find a job. So I took it, I used it,

find a job. So I took it, I used it, and then we start to define what we're going to do to provide the family similar environment like they will have in my country. Wow. And it was to add and added layer of challenge and everything, you know, it's interesting because a lot of people see these challenges and they say wow, and everything. And then when you're living it in the moment, you're just sort of making decisions that are in the best interest of the family, you know, for a couple years, it was one car while he's working downtown, we're in school in Cordova. So my mom takes him to downtown, comes back, drops us off, picks us up, goes to pick him up. Like that was like a mindset that was leading towards that better life while she was raising us and he was working towards

that, that, you know, is really, really impactful to look back on, I guess, and reflect. And to hear your story, how many kids are in St. Jude right now being treated? How many patients do they handle at once? A few thousand. You know, they're, they're... So consider that. Yeah. This is, this is one story times 2000, every single moment, every single hour, and every single day of the week happening right now as we speak.

Probably more. When we were there, they had 4,000 kids. 4,000. Now it's by far bigger. But the interesting thing is that St. Jude's impact is so much more than the lives they saved. Their whole model of care is find out what works and share it with the world. So they're impacting millions. Not only are they the paramount in pediatric cancer care, not only do they do things nobody else thought could ever be done, and not only do they spend millions on research

to figure out what works when they do get answers, they don't hoard them. They don't say come here, we're the only ones. They literally at no cost give it to any practitioner in the world. And they support it. Not just give it, but they have a whole unit to train them to continue in research in other countries and then just implement like people dedicated to implementing these things through other hospitals across the world. Which interestingly is an ethos that you guys have taken into your work these days, which we'll get to.

But first, how old were you when you were finally cleared? It was 2001. So I was 10 years old. When was your second birthday? February 22nd. 2, 22, 01. And how old were you then? 10 years old. And you were now 34.

I'm now 33. 33. Well, first of all, I don't even know what words to use, but I don't, congratulations seems like something you say at graduation, not about somebody's life, but. It's a lot of luck and hard work I guess on my parents and you know it was interesting because even growing up you know I probably remember more

friends that didn't make it than ones that did. I have one friend that he was the only one of three kids with the same cancer that survived. And he just had his first son even though they told him he couldn't have kids. So again, the impact St. Jude has on the people that survive is just insane. How many kids that had the same thing you did survive first didn't back then? That's a good question that I wish I could I could answer. I mean the effectiveness of St. Jude was above the 80%. 80? Above the 80%.

Which is phenomenal because 50 years ago it was probably a 10% survival rate. It was 4. 4? They took the type of cancer I had. 4 percent of kids that had what you had died before St. Jude. It was a 4% survival rate. And now it's 80. It went up to 96. It inversed. You were kidding me. Yeah. I mean, I am so proud of being a native Memphian and as such,

I am so proud of St. Jude and Lisa and I always give to St. Jude and everything else, but I didn't even know that. You're telling me before St. Jude, kids that had what you had, four out of 100 lived, two out of 50, one out of 25, and now you're saying 24 out of 25 live because of the work St. Jude does,

and you are part of that legacy. Your life is part of that legacy. And this is where the commitment comes. There is a lot of it that comes from the idea that because so many people invested, because so many people made it happen, because of all the different pieces that it took for people that survived to, to still be here, I guess that's a lot of what makes it where, you know, most survivors want their life to mean something and they want to accomplish

something that made the investment worth it. And so, do you feel like you, do you feel like you owe back to the world what the world gave you? I don't know if I'd say, oh, but I do think I, I feel committed, you know. I don't feel it like a debt that I have to do, but more so than I want to prove.

Good, because that would be a burden. So my words are bad, but you're saying it gives you a commitment to the world. And to myself, you know, you sort of strive for life in any way, you know, when I'm not, you know, that phrasing of work hard, play hard is very true. You know, you want to live life, you want to work, you want to do great things personally, professionally, and that means different things to different people. But it seems to be the

consensus with most of the people that I still have relationships with? It's interesting that this is so true. Ideally when we were developing the model to make this model not competitive, I mean self-sustained, so it shouldn't be putting competing against short health centers, against Christ communities, how we can make this. In 2008, the business situation was really hard and then become harder and at some point I he we also we were serving a community that we focus in minorities underserved community. Well we got to get to that. But it's important that when I said we want to switch the payers at some point he

was already doing the internship with me and he said we said we need something because we don't get paid. It's hard to work with a population and he said you you may be you it may be a good business decision but I will go and work for somebody else that will serve this community. And that concludes part one of my conversation with the two Pedro's and you do not wanna miss part two that's now available to listen to as we're about to get into the story of Life.Health.

Together guys, we can change this country, but it starts with you. I'll see you in part two. On Thanksgiving Day 1999, five-year-old Cuban boy Elian Gonzalez was found off the coast of Florida. And the question was, should the boy go back to his father in Cuba? Mr. Gonzalez wanted to go home, and he wanted to take his son with him.

Or stay with his relatives in Miami? Imagine that your mother died trying to get you to freedom. Listen to Jess Peace, the Elian Gonzalez story, on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. What does the heartbreaking fate of the cheetah tell us about the way we raise our children? Why was Los Angeles the bank robbery capital of the world? What exactly happened in the Marriott

Hotel in downtown Boston in March of 2020? I'm Malcolm Gladwell. In my new audio book, Revenge of the Tipping Point, I'm looking at these questions and exploring the dark side of contagious phenomenon. You can hear a sneak peek of the audio book on my podcast, Revisionist History. Listen on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. Hey y'all, Nimminy here. I'm the host of a brand new history podcast or wherever you listen to podcasts. Get the kids in your life excited about history by tuning in to Historical Records. Listen to Historical Records on the iHeart Radio app,

Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Muhammad Ali, George Foreman, 1974. George Foreman was champion of the world. Ali was smart and he was handsome. Story behind the Rumble in the Jungle is like a Hollywood movie. But that is only half the world. Ali was smart and he was handsome. Story behind the Rumble in the Jungle is like a Hollywood movie. But that is only half the story. There's also James Brown, Bill Withers, BB King, Miriam Makiba. All the biggest slack artists on the planet. Together in Africa. It was a big deal.

Listen to Rumble, Ali, Foreman and the Soul of 74 on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Do you ever wonder where your favorite foods come from? And like what's the history behind bacon wrapped hot dogs? Hi, I'm Eva Longoria. Hi, I'm Maite Gomez-Rejon. Our podcast, Hungry for History, is back. And this season we're taking a bigger bite

out of the most delicious food and its history. Seeing that the most popular cocktail is the Margarita, followed by the Mojito from Cuba, and the Piñuco Lada from Puerto Rico. Listen to Hungry for History on the iHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.