An Army of Normal Folks - Americans Fear Public Speaking as Often as Death. Here's How to Beat It.

Episode Date: October 23, 2026

Americans fear public speaking almost as much as death. In this solo Shop Talk, Bill shares how he learned to give keynotes and commencement speeches, and breaks down what actually works: be yourself, be prepared, and don’t be afraid to be a little funny. If you’ve ever frozen up at the thought of leading a meeting or speaking to a crowd, this one’s for you. ARMY ACTIONS Subscribe to the podcast and rate & review us! Signup to join the Army, visit NormalFolks.org Join or start an ANF local service club at https://normalfolks.org/service-clubs/ Take The 10 Level Challenge, “the hero’s journey for service” at 10LevelChallenge.org Record a testimonial or recommend a guest here - https://army.storytap.com/906/start/anf-listeners?epdescription Follow us on all socials:Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/armyofnormalfolks/TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@armyofnormalfolksFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/ArmyofNormalFolksX: https://x.com/armynormalfolksLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/an-army-of-normal-folks/Support the show: https://www.normalfolks.us/#joinSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Hey, everybody. It's Bill Courtney with an army of normal folks. Welcome to Shop Talk, which is Shop Talk number 126, and I'm doing it solo today because Alex is not in that chair. But I don't need Alex for this one because it's kind of an interesting way for me. Shop Talk number 126, Americans fear of public speaking as often as death. That's weird. And we're going to talk about that. And how to overcome your fear? of speaking from others, which surprisingly do all the time and never plan to. We'll do this right after these brief messages from our cheddar sponsors. Eating well shouldn't be complicated, but somehow it turns into recipes, prep, cleanup,

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I'm Melissa Jeltson, and in my new podcast, what happened to her, I'm bringing you new stories and conversations every week. Stories about women whose deaths were too quickly ruled a suicide. She was starting to get worried and get scared for her safety. Stories of survival. The only difference between me and her, frankly, was a little bit of luck, because by all rights, I should be dead. Cases that everyone else called closed. They can't convict her, right?

Like, she has so much evidence. These stories all start in the same place, with a woman failed by a system that didn't believe her, that didn't protect her, that didn't see her. No child should ever experience that. And we were babies. She did all of these brave things and came out and spoke about it. And he got a year. You never know who that devil is because he's wearing the disguise.

Sometimes it's a police uniform. Listen to what happened to her on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. If there's a million times more digital intelligence than there is biological intelligence, it's hard to imagine humans being in control. that scenario. I'm Walter Isaacson, host of the new podcast, The Builders. Right now, we're living through an AI arms race. So I went directly to the people shaping that future. Elon Musk, Dario Hamaday, Alex Carr, Faye, Faye-Fei Lee, Palmer Lucky, because I wanted to understand what the most consequential builders believe, what they fear, and where they think this is all headed. Silicon Valley is always saying the cliche thing about the way.

to predict the future is to create it. Well, yeah, it's up to us. But when you say us, who's us? Is it 400 people that you know in Silicon Valley? Is it me down here in New Orleans? They're brilliant, controversial, and they're already shaping the future. The question is, whose imagination do we want to live in? This is going to determine the fate of nations and economies and the future of humanity. Listen to the builders on the iHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or every get your podcast. My name is Josie Duffy Rice. I'm a journalist who covers the criminal legal system.

And over my career, I've heard account after account of prosecutorial misconduct, story after story of injustice. But I've never heard a story quite like this. The more I kept reading that stuff, I thought, man, there's more red flags that just kept coming up over and over. We'll hypnotize them to strengthen. in that memory. So he went into a good france.

I really didn't believe any of it was real. And I was like, well, they're going to figure out this is not me. They're going to do their police job. Listen to Examine the Backfire Effect on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Okay, everybody, welcome back. Shop Talk number 126. If Americans fear public speaking as often as death, here's how to beat it.

I'm a guy who does keynote speeches, commencement addresses, I speak all over the place, have for now 10, 11 years. And I'm someone who really accidentally became a public speaker or keynote speaker. The truth is, I was mind in my own business running my lumber company and coaching football and never ever thought about getting it up in front of people and talking or doing a graduation address or having a podcast. And then some goofy guys from L.A. came and filmed me and a movie came out and won the Academy Award.

My life changed forever. It gave me a platform. So I became an author, became a public speaker, and I've got this podcast. I certainly never had any training in it, never had any planning to do it. And in my early 40s, mid-40s, I guess, was thrust into it. I mean, the very first speech I ever did was a, was a pretty large,

um, pretty large speech for an organization. And I mean, I just, I winged it. I was scared to death. Here's some interesting data. Back in 1973,

a survey of 2,500 Americans found that 41% were afraid of public speaking compared to 19% who said they were afraid of death. It doesn't mean they'd actually rather die that given. of speech, but it just shows how widespread the fear is when 41% say they're afraid of public speaking and 19% said they're afraid of death. They're twice as afraid of public speaking as they are death. That wasn't 73, but the fear is still widespread. A 2017 Chapman University survey found that 20% of Americans were afraid of public speaking

nearly identical to the 20.3% that were afraid of dying. Jerry Seinfeld once said something I thought was pretty funny. He said this means to the average person that if you go to a funeral, you're better off in the casket than doing the eulogy. Why is public speaking important and why is it important to be willing to do public speaking to have an effective leadership position in your community or make an impact in your community and how I got over my fear.

Well, first of all, you just about can't engage in community if you're unwilling to get up in front of a group of people and have a conversation. So I think about our local service clubs. and I think about the people who lead them. Ultimately, they're standing up in front of folks and explaining ideas and leading groups to do work.

You have to be willing to stand up in front of people and put yourself out there in order to lead to do any good. If you're going to advance in business, if you're going to advance in your company, You've got to be willing to stand up in front of folks and give presentations. Public speaking is important. Being willing to put yourself out there is important. When I do public speaking, I talk about things like commitment, leadership.

I try to be challenging to folks to think about certain fundamentals or tenets. maybe in a different way. And what I found is early on, both humor and being self-effacing often is endearing to those that you're addressing. So before I hit any group of people with maybe challenging ideas or a way to think about a common conception, cultural conception, before I, I am challenging to people, often who don't like change and don't like to be challenged, those kind of comments come off to an audience more effectively if the presenter of those

comments are, and is an endearing person. And there's no better way to be endearing than to be humorous or self-effacing. So, almost always start off. telling a anecdotal story about my life that might be a little bit funny and might poke a little fun at myself. Because in doing so, I disarm my audience. I'm not saying I know better than you and I'm standing in front of you to just tell you what you need to know. no, I'm a regular guy who has moles and problems in his life just like everybody, and I don't think I know better than anybody else. In fact, I think I'm kind of a dopey dude, but I do have a certain perspective on an idea that I'd like to share with you. So if you don't come off all-knowing and you come off a little humorous and you come off a little self-facing and a little bit endearing, those that you're addressing,

or warmer to your ideas. The flip side of that is it's not uncomfortable to speak to folks who are smiling at you. And when people are like this listening to you, or when people like this, it can be intimidating. And you can't really get a facial read And you don't know if you're reaching those people that you're trying really hard to pitch an idea to you. But if they're smiling and they're leaning in and they're relaxed because they don't see you as anything other than one of them.

As a speaker, when you see the audience or the auditorium with an engaged, body language or facial expression, all of a sudden, the nerve school way, because you're just talking to folks. So the one thing I would say is if you're afraid of speaking and you're about to be put in a position to do that, smile, be warm, be engaging. If you got something funny to say, say it. Take the edge off by poking will fun at yourself and endear the crowd to. you and then feed off that energy of endearment.

Because then instead of talking to someone or talking to a group, you're more speaking with them. And it's more of an engagement than a dissertation. And it helps. There's an old saying, if you're afraid of the group, just when you stand up there, imagine them wearing no clothes because they would look stupid and then they're the ones that are, they're the ones that are in a compromised position and it's supposed to give you a sense of calm.

I don't think that's right. I think imagine yourself without an eye close. And what I mean by that is be bare. Be yourself. Be real. I see so many people who are really good engaging folks. They get up and do some public speaking and they put on this. other person face or voice or inflection or body language or stand.

In other words, they almost think they have to take on a different persona when they get up in front of people and speak and they change their cadence. That's not real. And audiences see through that. Be naked. Be yourself. If something about you wasn't engaging, you would not be invited to the podium to share your thoughts. So don't change the person that was invited to speak. Be that person.

You wouldn't be in front of people speaking to them if there wasn't something about you that people wanted to hear. So don't change the person that got invited to the podium because you're in front of people when you think all of a sudden you need to take on some different form because you're in front of folks. Be yourself. Be naked. Be real. And be engaging.

And again, once you do that, the audience will relax and will respond to that. And when you see that inflection of that body language, the audience that helps you to relax. I have never used notes when I do public speaking ever. but I rehearse like you wouldn't believe. So to be authentically you in front of an audience and to not get nervous, either have copious notes that you can glance down out that will keep you on point and on topic and keep flowing, or rehearse relentlessly.

Be prepared. There's almost no time. in a 30-minute conversation that you're not going to lose a little bit of your train of thought. And it's one thing to be talking with a friend, lose your trainer thought, look up and catch it, or your friend says something else, and that brings that thought back around to you. It's a whole other thing to blank in front of a room of 400 people. And that blanking and then that searching for where you're supposed to be, while 400 people are staring looking at you and you're standing in front of them,

that can be rough and you can lose an entire audience doing it. How do you avoid that? It's preparation. So there it is. I think if you're prepared, I think if you're truly authentically yourself, and I think if you will smile, be humorous if you can,

be self-effacing, and allow very early in your comments for the people that you're addressing, to see you as just one of them so that they relaxed and are willing to accept what you have to say. And then you see on their faces, they relax by language and posture and smiles. That will help you to relax as you address them. And remember, you wouldn't be given a podium if something about you or something you think wasn't something someone wanted to hear in the first place. You have a right to be there.

And why is it important? We need leaders in our communities. We need people to stand up and bring people together in our society. And you almost can never do that without being in front of people. And whether it's a group of five or six or ten, or it's a social club of 400, or we've been invited to speak in front of large audiences, sharing the work you're doing in communities, or some fledgling 501c3 that you're trying to get off the ground,

to be in leadership and to change, you're eventually going to find yourself in front of folks having to share an idea or topic. And you can't fear that part of it. And there are certainly ways to get past it. So that's it. Shop Talk number 126 is don't fear public speaking. There's no reason to. If they give you a podium, whatever it is that they gave you the podium for, gives you a right to be there.

So take advantage of those opportunities. If you enjoyed this episode, please share in friends on social. Subscribe to the podcast wherever you're watching or listening to it. Rate it. Review it. Join the army at normalfocus.org. Join or start one of our local service clubs by our merch and share a testimonial feedback or content ideas at amfvideo.org. Holy moly when Alex gets back I'm going to have to talk to him because we're asking you guys do a lot of stuff But these things will help us grow an army and all the folks I'm bill court me

Until next time do what you can I'm Melissa Jeltson host of the what happened to her podcast We're kicking off the season with the Sandra Birchmore story a case the police rode off as a suicide in a snowstorm Her family never bought it and the man they suspected wore a badge You never know who that devil is because he's wearing in disguise. Sometimes it's a police uniform. And you can get access to all episodes 100% ad-free with an IHeart True Crime Plus subscription exclusively on Apple Podcasts, available only to IHeart True Crime Plus subscribers. So don't wait.

Head to Apple Podcasts, search for IHeart True Crime Plus, and subscribe today. How do you know that Claude won't become manipulative? This is a constant worry. And you can actually catch the model thinking I think X is actually true, but I'm going to tell the user why. I'm Walter Isaacson. On my new podcast, The Builders, I'm going inside the minds of the people shaping our future. Listen to the Builders starting October 13 on the IHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. On recent episodes of The Questlove Show, I chatted with Jojo about her music and Wallow 267 about his story.

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