An Army of Normal Folks - Arshay Cooper: Inner-City Rowing (Pt 2)

Episode Date: July 25, 2023

Arshay grew up on the West Side of Chicago and his life was forever changed when he joined the first all-black high school rowing team in the nation (and became the captain). As an adult, Arshay found success as a chef before returning to his true passion by starting inner-city rowing teams. He’s the author of “A Most Beautiful Thing,” which was made into a critically-acclaimed documentary by Common, Dwayne Wade, and Grant Hill. Support the show: https://www.normalfolks.us/premiumSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Hey everybody, it's Bill Courtney with an Army of Normal Folks and we continue now with part 2 of our conversation with Arsha Cooper right after these brief messages from our generous sponsors. I remember the first time I heard the term white privilege and it pissed me off because I didn't feel real privilege and I'm white as hell. I mean I'm red-headed, light skinned, I'm white. They ain't no mistake in this whiteness. And I grew up in apartments. I did describe to you a little bit about how I grew up.

I went to school with the uncool clothes on because those were the cheapest things that my mom could afford. You know, back in the day, in the South, bass, weed, and the Spitty loafers were the thing, and they were like $50. And back then, $50 a lot of money for shoes. Well, we went to the knockoff place

in about the $12 shoes, because that's all we could afford. And, you know, I remember feeling even more insecurity from everything my life was, but also a lot of the times how I had to dress and the things that available. And, you know, people having friends over and I was very careful about which friends I had over

because I lived in an apartment or a condominium and everybody else had these school houses with two parents and, you know, so I didn't feel like I was privileged. And so when I heard white privilege, I'm like, who the hell are you talking about? You don't know none about me. And it insulted me. And I'm going to tell you, on the face of it, there's a lot of white folks who hear the term white privilege. And they think about the struggles they've gone into their lives to get where they are that initially are insulted by it and as a result dismiss that term as woke BS because they take it personally. It was, took me a long time, but it was, it took me while to understand that white privilege was not

a term used to personally attack or diminish the things I've had to go through from my life to find success. Rather, it was a term that was used more to try to explain the plight of a lot of inner city black and brown people. Not again to compare to minish what some white person did that came up but to say there is a difference often times in that plight. So I'll get to my question minute, but I got to put one more layer on this. My pastor Tim Russell, who passed during COVID, one of the greatest mentors I've ever had. One of the smartest men I have wanted the most well-re, I helped him move his house one time and he had two bedrooms full of books

I'm talking about rooms dog full of books and he had read them all and His dad was a police officer up in Pizzlevania and He was a Theologically trained that seminary pastor in the Presbyron Church and all I can tell you is think James Earl Jones, booming voice, bald, black, proud, brilliant, wonderful man. And I would tell you he is the closest relationship I've ever had with the pastor and we had lots of real talk. He moved to Memphis from up there to start a school called the Memphis Center for Urban Theological Seminary, trying to help pastors from the inner city who are certainly on fire for God in church,

but didn't really have the full theological seminary background, especially with God of the New Testament, to teach that, to equip them, to go back to their churches and teach that. So he was the president of that and we became very, very good friends. The whole reason I'm telling you all of this is this. When he and I were deep in conversation one time, the white privilege thing came up and I told him how bad it bothered me and it angered me And I took it personally and it discounted all I'd done

And my wife to overcome obstacles and that I wasn't down with it. He looked at me and he said You're been to a black dentist And I said no He said you have been to a black doctor and I said no. And he said, you have been to a black doctor? And I said, no. I did go to Mercy Room one time and the doctor was from India. And he said, so you can think of one time you've been to a non-white doctor. And I said, yeah, I guess so. And he said, you have been to black attorney. And I said, no. And he said, why not? And I said, I don't know that I've recored if anybody was black or white, but I went to who I know or who my family knew

or what was available to me. He said, there's not a black person in the world that has in it one time in their life had to depend on a white dentist, a white doctor, a white attorney, or something like that. Or some professional that they had to go to a white person for those things. And he said, that's white privilege. And he said, that doesn't mean anything to you or about you or anything you've done. And he said, but you you have a privilege as a white person that you can that things and people and services are available to you in the way that you want them by people that you are comfortable with that simply aren't available to black people in our country. That doesn't diminish you. It's just trying to explain where a black person might be coming from. And it rocked me when he said that. Talk to me about your perspective of the term

white privilege from a man who grew up in the West Side Chicago. Yeah, you know, I didn't, and I want to skip anything. I didn't even think about it until I started rowing. And I didn't really think about it because it was so much navigating through the West side of Chicago that I couldn't even imagine navigating through anything else or what other people was going through. But it didn't mean when it, you know, people wasn't using it or white privilege back when I was young. But, you know, the first time I noticed it, it had nothing to do with the money,

or, you know, work ethic or anything like that, I, we was sharing a boat house with a private school. And that was a gas station on Clark Street by the Lincoln Park Zoo, by the Lincoln Park Lagoon where we rode. And for me and my team, the group of black guys, we were always asked that you guys have to come in one at a time because we can't watch you. And we don't know if anyone will take something or still I was like oh man, okay, okay, but we wanted we need a stack so we were just always going one at a time and We were talking about this later, but as we got friendly with the private school kids and it didn't start off

that way at first these kids were from Santa Ignatius and We were walking and we saw them all go in as a group. And I was like, hey, we have to go in one at a time. You guys came going as a group. He was like, yeah, yeah, you guys have to come in one at a time. And I wanted kids with like, and this comes in with like being an ally. He was like, no, that's not cool. Come in with us.

Let's see if they say something, you know? And we went in with them and they didn't say anything. No one said anything, but that was the rule for us the same cashier what year this was 1999 Mm-hmm, and we ain't talking 64 no no no no I know that but I just want to make the point Yeah, and that's when I felt like there's a different kind of privilege here And that's when I felt like there's a different kind of privilege here. And then that's when we began to have more conversations when I said, Hey, I've never missed a swim in this school.

I never broke a plate in my life. I have never gotten trouble. When I even talked back to my mom, I have pledged allegiance to the flag every morning. I have recited the pream while I said the declaration and the pennies passed that task with goose bumps in my spine. And I have my face pressed down while I said the declaration and the penned is passed that task with goose bumps in my spine and I have my face pressed down a police card numerous of times and I asked the guys that we were all with for saying they should have this ever happened to them and they said no And I was like I'm falling to more than you guys. I feel more American than you guys. I do all kind of go to church But it never happened to them

um, and I felt like... Let me ask something, would you dress like a thug? I, not me, but I guess we had... Dress like a thug. I asked that question on purpose that way. Yeah. Speak to it. What does that feel like when a white dude says that?

Yeah, dress like a thug. What does that even mean? There you go. You know what I mean? Like, you know, it's like... Who decides who dressed like a thug. Oh my gosh. What is that even mean? There you go. You know what I mean? Like, you know, it's like, who decides who dressed like a thug, right? You know why I said that. Or I just said. Because that's what people are thinking.

That's what people are thinking. Here's the thing. Hold it, hold it, hold it, hold it. Do you have a hood on? Jab Dress? Dress like a thug? No, I was right. Well hold it.

Corn roast? Dress like a thug. I'm just equating. I know, yeah. We'll talk about it. Let. Well hold it. Corn roast. Dress like a thug. I'm just equating. I know. Yeah. We'll talk about it. We'll talk about it. You know, we have big genes, right?

Well thugs were big genes. I see it on rap stuff. I can't listen to music or even understand the words, but I know those thugs were big old genes. Yeah. We couldn't afford to change. But here's the thing. We left practice. We had basketball the thing, we left practice.

We had basketball shorts and jerseys on. At some point, we still had rowing clothes on. And we had our headbands, right? Well, that's gangster. Dispel what I'm saying. Yeah. Doing all of this. Yes.

You understand what you're saying. Yeah. Yeah. All the things that Nike sells, the all athletes wear. In America. In America. But athletes wear. Yeah.

We wear toes. Yeah. And damn thugs. We were considered thugs. And the same guys who showed up into this foreign sport who trained six days a week and took entrepreneurship classes, we couldn't walk into the same grocery store as others. That's white privilege. Now does that speak bad about a white person or something?

Not at all. Not at all. To explain your reality. Yep. That's all it is. Yeah. Because the guys who went to the grocery store, done nothing wrong. They just walked into the grocery store

The white kids they didn't do anything wrong. It doesn't mean anything against them It's just trying to explain your reality. We didn't even get mad at them the fact that they can go in now We's not their fault. It's not their fault you know So you're saying them being white is not their fault No more than being black. No, I mean, but But One group is looked at and penalized differently than the other both engaged to the same sport at the same place in the same city

the same store And I know people think it's you know a shaky conversation, but that's why people say I feel like I'm living in a different America shaky conversation, but that's why people say I feel like I'm living in a different America. Bro, it's time we start having shaky conversations in this country that are real, that are civil, non-threatening, and respectful, but real. And that's what I learned to sports in football, basketball, that to accomplish anything, you are uncomfortable the whole time. You are courageous, but these conversations are uncomfortable. But time. You are courageous but these

conversations are uncomfortable but it gives us the results that. So our listeners heard this row stuff and they got to be thinking row black folks don't row. I said that. I know. So I guess it's time that we we advance from 11 years old and get to the rowing. So people even understand why you're at the store and why you're wearing roadclubs. And man, there's some of the stuff I've read that I cannot help but laugh at. I don't even know if I'm supposed to laugh, but Lord have mercy. Some of your partners said some funny stuff, so we're going to share that too.

But first, a few messages from our sponsors. At around 11, 12, you notice this family dynamic change and your stepdad has gone and your mom is an addict in the street, your living is grandparents, right? So I remember reading that you pretty much felt like your mom was gonna die, so you disassociated yourself from her and just kind of let her down your mind preparing yourself for her to be going and dealing with that trauma as well going to school your grandmother kind of I guess stepping in and trying to keep you right and Then showing up at school one day and there's a boat

So I'm gonna shut up and let you take us from about 11 to the first boat day. Yeah, so you know, my, you know, my mom eventually went into recovery. And that that in itself was like, wow, if God can change that one, he can change anything. That was my first thought. But, you know, she was, you know, amazing when she went to a Christian recovery home and got changed her life and we had devotion every morning. But I think Rowan came to me because of her, because when she left her recovery, she said that, I think, the scripture. She said to me, she said, your gift will make room for you and put you in the presence of great men.

I never forgot, I didn't know what that meant. Oh, she's crazy. But I always thought about that. My high school, graduate less than 50% of a senior class every year, sent 10% to college. The second most violent high school in West Chicago at that time. In the name of the school.

Mally high school. Right. And to get to school was rough. It was hard. You had to go through so many different gangs to even get to the school. Walking. Walking. And fights every day all the time.

In the school or outside. Outside day all the time. In the school outside. Outside and in the school. Go through the metal detectors, you see nice and screwdriver on the table. A Memphis bus driver will tell you he is not paid well enough to break up fights on the bus so oftentimes school buses are running down the road

with people fighting in the back of it and it just happens. It just happens. It's the same way there. Same way. And thinking of all this craziness happening, I walk in a launch from one day and I see a white boat. I was like, what the heck is this?

And I'll stop and look at it. I've never seen a boat before. And you've seen pictures of them. I've seen pictures, but like, you never like a man in a boat. Yeah, like live. I've never seen a boat before. And you've seen pictures of them. I've seen pictures, but you never like it. Yeah, like live. I've never seen a boat. And I stopped and I stared. And I stopped staring at this white lady, hit my shoulders. She's like, Hey, how many white people? You know, not a lot of white people. Put it. Teachers, administrators, students. And my school, maybe you saw two white teachers,

not a lot of white teachers. And how many students in the whole school? 900, maybe. So we're talking a quarter of 1% white people. Yep. In my school. And there's a white chick in the hallway with a boat. In the lunchroom.

Might as well be in a marsh. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, you know, my mind is tripping because she said, hey, was you going to be a part of the crew team? I was like, like, crew, like, you're taught. Someone asked you to join that crew running on the way as fast as you can.

What, you know, like, what is this? There's so many different crews. That was the white lady starting a crew about like, I'm like, what is the crew? You know, I'm on this boat. You know, and she said, let me show you. And I have to say this bill. She walked me up to the boat and behind the boat with the TV monitor,

and they was showing the Olympic games. And it looks so beautiful. You're talking about people rowing. People growing. And it looks so meditative. And then it looked like an opportunity. But because no one on the screen looked like me or the world I was used to,

I said no to the opportunity and walked away. And I sat next to my friend, I was like, you can't believe, like, they trying to get us on a lake in Michigan, we don't even swim. And now, that there's okay, there's the first one. That, you know, I mean, I guess off, we should probably share our favorite white people

drunk black people drunk. But I mean, one of the, one of the things is, black folks don't swim, right? Well, that's crazy. Of course, black people. Yes, but the point is, when you grow up in West Side Chicago, trying to come up with your next meal, you ain't taking swimming lessons to the YMCA. No. No. Now the other thing that's interesting is you

say you've never seen a boat in your Chicago which happens to be on like one of the biggest lakes in the world. Full of boats. How far is West Side from that like five miles four miles five miles? But you never went over there. Never been. Why didn't you go over there? Just, well, first of all, thinking about going cross the neighborhoods, no money to get on a train to see it, you know, just never been thought of. I couldn't even see pass when I, my circumstances. So my first year at Manassas, I loaded up a bus load

of kids at Manassas, which is much like your high school. And I took them out to the county to play in a football game. And it was the first time most of my team had been out of Shelby, Shelby County. We got off, started warming up. And the football field was out in the middle of the field. And back behind the bleachers kind of in the in zone after warm-ups where we went and sat for 15 minutes to get ready to play the game and it was up against cotton field. And two of my players looked over and said, Coach Bill. Man, they got that cotton.

And I said, yeah. And it dawned on me. They'd never seen a plant outside of just the bushes. And I mean, they'd never seen a farm. They'd never seen a field. They'd never seen cotton. So much of what anybody would just normally just take for absolute granted, they'd never seen. And this is where in Memphis, this is where, I mean, this is the largest cotton trading hub in the world here in Memphis. And these guys had never seen it because they'd never been more than three miles away from the house, which I didn't understand until they explained to me. It's dangerous to walk out their house. So talk about that. The point is you would never see a boat. You were five miles from a

mecca of boats in your own city and you wouldn't even dare go to that nice part of the city because you couldn't even get there safely. You couldn't even get to the next neighborhood. What, how about we're talking blocks? I mean, yeah, three block, four blocks. You would not go three. You can't go past five blocks. Gains wasn't, it wasn't different communities.

It wasn't different neighborhoods. It was blocks. Five blocks is the vice law. The next block is conservative vice law. Next five blocks is the renegade vice law. It's the gangsta's disciples. And so if you're in a car or if you're in a bus with your friends, while collective of gangs are getting on every four stops,

that's why gangs happen because, I mean, the gang fights happen because there's four different gangs on one bus heading to the same school. You know what I mean? And you can't be caught over there. And then if you're on a train, if you say, I wanna take a,

you know what, I'm just gonna hop on a train and do this amazing adventure and go see the series towers. No, it's not happening because on that bus, the zoo, because on that bus, maybe a different gang. And that's in the museum. Yes. And you hear so many stories growing up. It's like, don't, everything is don't go over there. They'll go over there. Don't go over there. Don't go over there. So you're not going to go over there. You know what I mean?

And if you have to go through, quote to go to the Sears Tower to go to like Michigan to go to a museum the zoo and all of these Learning opportunities You and West Side ain't going. Yeah Yeah, and so you roll up on a white woman with a boat in the cafeteria Yep, and I said Preston we ain't doing this So you roll up on a white woman with a boat in the gaffer. Yup. And I said Preston, we ain't doing this. At your body at the, at the, at the, at the, at the, at the lot, the lustril table.

And he was, he was a bit of conspiracy theories too. He was, he was like, yeah, you know, I remember him saying this. I wrote about this. He was like, yeah, this is, you know, this is how the white people kill us. Like, why would they want us to do this? And I was like, I'm not saying that. I'm just saying, I don't think we should be on the boat. And you know, he said something funny.

He's like, think about it. I'm thinking he's about to say something to me. He's like, even the boats are white, bro. And I was like, come on, man. Oh, didn't he say something? One of you, somebody said funny line about a slave ship. Oh, yeah, that was Malcolm. They said, you're gonna have you guys out there

on slave ships. These white people guys, you're like, oh yeah, is that true? And, but I tell you, on that day, you've seen, they had a sheet of paper that says, sign up, no one signed up. And then the next day, the boat is still there. I walk in the launch, I see a lot of people signing up, and I'm like, what the heck is going on?

Sign up, you get free Chicago pizza. And I was like, oh man, you know, like anything about this lot's room food, you know? And people are signing up, and I sit next to press and press, and I think we sign up, you know what I mean? And it was because the pizza and this girl, I was like, I'll go.

A girl? Yeah, it's this girl named Grace. What you talking about? Man, I had a crush on her. I was like, Preston, I'll go if you can hook me up with this girl, Grace. And he was like, you have no shot. Like she's cheerleader, a student.

Like you have no shot, you know what I mean? I was like, well, I'll go, man, because he really wanted to go for the pizza. So, you know, he made that happen. But we still ain't talking about Rowan. We're talking about pizza and girls and anything else on normal 50s, 60s, okay? It was taken about. Yep.

That's what I was thinking about. But it's funny to me. I mean, you can see a scene in the movie with you and a couple of buddies sitting around the lunchroom table talk about the boat's white. They got a, they got a like a slave ship row and we don't swim and all of that. And it's hilarious that there's about 12 different stereotypes rolled up all into that one conversation.

Yeah. All stereotypes. I mean, and that was, yeah, that was the first thing that popped up in our minds, you know, and it was all of us, and that's the reason, and it was different for everyone. That's why everyone said no, it didn't sign up. Do you now allow uncomfortable white people are talking to black people about those stereotypes? Yeah. You know why?

Why? And afraid they're gonna offend you. And so because I'm afraid of political correctness, woetness, cancel culture, and that I'm gonna offend you, now I can't talk to you about that. So how are you and I ever gonna get to understand each other and grow together if we cannot have those conversations? if we cannot have those conversations. No, that's correct. And I think,

and that's what I love. I know we're getting to this about our coach, Jewish guy. He was a rowing coach. It was all about the human connection right away. Questions like, what kind of piece of your life? Have you ever traveled? He came by our home the first time, before we even joined a team.

White dude. White dude. That's first white guy ever went in your house, I bet. Yeah, first. Yeah, anybody, well, he didn't get in most of the houses. He didn't say, he ain't coming to air. You know what I mean? That's the truth, you know? He's like, front door, do it cracked open. The chain's still on the lock. How can I help you, you know?

And I think for, remember some of our families from the South, and they had the experience, but some of them was like, I'm not delivering my kid into this space. You know how I grew up, you know? And it came from a place of safety, you know, and for some of them. And fear.

And fear. And this, I'm using this word specifically, also ignorance, not stupidity, just being ignorant of any of that world. Because if you can't get exposed to it, how do you understand it? How do you understand it? Yeah, yeah.

It's, yeah. And remember, because I never seen a boat. It's up close. And now you want to put, my kids on it, and it was the same for them. And back to what you were saying, the human connection, the questions, even, you know, it wasn't just that it was a boat or I wanted to be in the water.

It was his spirit when I went up to that info session after the school, the first to get that pizza. And having a woman coach, there was a lot of women, I saw coaching boys, and most of us was raised by women. We felt comfortable with women. Now that's interesting. And I was a sensitive kid,

and I felt like women got me in a way that some men didn't. And then he had a black man who didn't know nothing about rowing but he knew the community but he was still a coach. And the leadership kind of reflected the diversity. We'll be right back. Talk briefly about this guy, this crazy white dude, his idea was to go in the inner city. It's one thing for white dude to go in the inner city and coach football, basketball, whatever. What we're talking about? Row, yeah, rowing. And a bunch of schools said, no, he tried, he went to different school.

There's a lot of other first place. We wasn't the first place. No, we went the first place. And you know, he came and I think he was had a conversation with someone. He was trying to get to volunteer and Michael Gorman and Michael say, I'm not volunteering. I think Michael's kind of like making a joke. Hey, if you start a rowing team on a West out of Chicago, maybe I'll volunteer, you know, and crazy can Did it and I think what was special about him? Coach Bill was that

It wasn't about him. He made, he took the time to hire a diverse staff, with women and people of color, to also learn from them, right? And understand that, you know, we came from different situations and he won't be maybe the only person that we were responsive,

that maybe the parents were responding to the coach victor, or maybe some of the moms were responding to Jessica differently. You know what I mean? But this is an average dude. I mean, he went to the University of Pennsylvania and was on the crew team. But, you know, this is not a guy who was anointed to go out and start rotating to the city.

He found it in his heart and said, you know, the commitment that disciplined the hard work, the teamwork, the effort that comprises a good row team are all tenants and fundamentals that would be great for these kids and what's that guy that learn. So I want to teach him rowing, but I want them to grow through learning how to row. And he included a one day a week entrepreneurship thing, right? So I mean, you talk about an army and normal folks. He's one. Yeah. Yeah. He was a trader, has a kid, newly married and finds himself in the West side of Chicago. trying to teach a bunch of inner city kids I wrote yeah, yep and And I gave it a shot and I tell you Bill

the The first time we went out that was rough the first time you went out where on a water We went out there, so hang on you sign up for the team because you got the thing because grace is All that they have rowing machines hold it. I want to make sure you're very grace for the team because you got the team because grace is why that you like what it looks like and so all that. They have wrong machines. Hold it. I want to make sure you're very grace. They got, no, I did not. No, I just, I don't want to be on the road team? 20 was about 21.

How many people fit in a boat? Eight or four. Eight or four. So there's four man boats, eight man boats. So there's 21 kids from the West Side Chicago. How many of those 21 kids literally could swim? I think it was like two to three. And you go stick them on the floor in some water.

Yeah. None of them, and ever even seen them. Yep. And so you'd say, well, that first day was rough. Well, I guess so, bro. It was a damn mess. I bet it was as bad as a soup sandwich. So tell me about that day. I can't tell you about that. You're 15 15. All right, so your 15 can't swim 21 of you and they put your

And above yes, and these boats y'all are not don't think speed boat No, what do they like 18 inches? Yeah, so 18 inches Wow, canoe. Yeah, long 20 canoe. Yeah, they can roll. They can turn over. It can flip. I know what I mean. They put you in it. Yeah. I mean, we had life jackets, but that still didn't mean anything. Um, You know, we bet we had some earth where was it? Where was the water? It was the Lincoln Park, Lagoon. So it's it's it's it's it's what's just a place that you never went never went right downtown you never even saw it before

would have ever saw it before so you ain't never been a boat you can't swim you really don't know these folks and they put you at a boat you'd ever been in and a life jacket that you really don't know how to use and water you can't swim in in a place that you can't get to from your neighborhood and say row row I Ro. I bet it, I bet it. Oh, Lord. And they pushed us out. We didn't move. That's what I said to line in the book. One of the kids, I'm sorry, I had to call him out,

but he's my boy, the Sean Benson. He starts crying. And I was like, man, I know you, you know, I'd be getting shootouts you saw and you like go outside the next day the next moment you know and you're crying in a boat that's so different you know and I remember we wouldn't move they said hey let's go we wouldn't move and they had to pull us back in. What do you mean? You're sat there. We sat there. We said, we know. And they pulled us back in. And I felt, gosh, the leader in me was like, man, like, they, I felt like these cultures, they wasn't disappointed,

but they just, they were looking at me, they were looking at each other, like, what did we get ourselves into? You know, I saw it in their face and I felt bad. And there was a little time between them. The homeless grace there. Grace was not there. Thank you. Because she would never made no time with you watching the city of Krona in the boat. And that was a little bit of time between

where we started taking swim lessons, where we got on the wrong machine and we went to University of West Cosset to sit on a tank. A tank is like a pool where you have a fake boat in and you like how to move together. Okay, so how long from that first we move in day to when you could actually grow a boat together? Like a moth maybe. It was a time. They said we got a we got a we got a we got a backup here. We got a backup here. Yeah do it. Yeah yeah, yeah, it was it was it was like a basketball football. Yeah, it's general.

We're all growing machines, growing machines and having conversations We felt like a part of the team and he was like guys who didn't make who athletic but didn't make the football team basketball team baseball team Those were the guys that were there and And I remember it was our two. We felt so connected. We started to learn more about each other and we went out there the next time and they pushed us out. First, the first thing I thought about was like, wow, just go from seeing dirt and concrete every day

to water and grass change everything for me. When it was like the same survival mode, when we pushed out and started rowing in pairs, it was like the same survival mode that told us that if you hear a gunshot run, told us in order to get back to the dock safely, you have to pull for each other. And in order to pull for each other,

you have to shut up and other. And in order to pull for each other, you have to shut up and listen. And the cultures say, sit tall, breathe, you belong here. With every stroke, you start to develop this magical rhythm. And that's when you start to feel the magic in the boat. And then you begin to really download that serenity. And you see the downtown view. And before it becomes a sport of competitiveness, it becomes a sport of meditation.

And I felt like, wow, this is the first sport that's calming the storm in me because I tried out the sports and I was riled up, I was angry because I wasn't that good, but it was non-combative and like non-conflict, and for me personally, because N-PAC scared me, gunshots, being chased or being punched, like I felt like, like this may be something that's, that that is great for me, but it wasn't like an introduction to sports,

it was like an introduction to wellness. And that's when I fell in love with it. I remember reading that you said, looking at the sears tower from the water, sitting in that boat, was maybe the first time you ever truly felt serenity. I'm using, I don't think you use words serenity, but tell me about that. Yeah, you know, I think only saw the top of a serious tower from the west out of Chicago. That was my only view. And it must have been no different than as you've explained, you can see the top of it, but it wouldn't any different looking at the moon, you were never getting that. You never get here exactly.

Yep. And I felt, I never felt so close to you, because my dream was to see downtown, but I never felt so close to my dream than that day. How ridiculous is it that a kid growing up in West Side Chicago, five miles from downtown, has a dream to be able to go across five miles just to see downtown. That is not a, that should not be a dream. That should be just an assumption. I have to tell you this Bill, I went to a school, you know, for skipping a little bit, but I spoke at a school in Harlem. And I asked all these young black men what was

their dream. And everyone was saying like young black men what was their dream. And everyone was saying, like NFL player basketball player, they went to one kid and he said to eat at Chipotle. And people started laughing. Chipotle. That's it? That was their dream. That was their dream.

And the way he looked at me with his eyes, like watering his eyes, I was like, this kid is serious and After that I went up to the school council. I said here's $20 you have to make sure he said Yeah, he was like you don't have to do it. I said no, you know what I said if you can eliminate the small dream There's room for bigger dreams. There's room for more dreams. I couldn't see past going down to Chicago Like like I couldn't see past going down to Chicago. Like, I couldn't see past the dream of downtown Chicago. That was the only one I had because it seemed so out of reach. And the moment Coach took me down, I was like,

dude, we got to go out of town. And so, Coach was eliminating the small dreams. And then that was room for more. And that was just powerful. And it took me back to that moment. When I saw this kid, the dream was only to eat at Chipotle because everyone talked about it and said, I'll be going to Chipotle, but he just couldn't. And these kids are women to their dreams and they can't see past that. And if you're dream, it's to simply go see the serious tower,

that's a different dream than a 14-year-old in another part of the country that has a dream to be a doctor, a dream to be an accountant, a dream to go to college, a dream to get married and have children in a house. That's the things that 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, know could be dreaming out, not to go five miles away from the house just to see the sear's tower. And when the dreams are so small and should be so and are so asumped of, how do we ever expect people from West Side Chicago to do anything? Or Harlem or wherever, pick a neighborhood in your city, Baltimore, you know what I'm talking about. I mean, the point is, if you

can't dream beyond five miles from your house because you're afraid to walk the ten blocks to get there, how in the world can you ever dream about being anything other than what you are and what you see every day? And that's why I appreciate people like Ken, yourself, and many others because people will say, how come there's not more black people offencing or black people are rallying? Because it's hard to dream about something you know nothing about. You know? And... That's funny. I think Chris Rock talks about his daughter, Fencing,

which is funny because one of the things he was talking about is, you know, yeah. I got black girls that fence and he's like, unicorn, you know, but the thing is, it is funny. It does speak to about a thousand stereotypes, but it's also desperately sad. Is that? That a black kid fencing is such or a black kid rowing

is such a odd thought that it's laughable. That speaks to why we have continued generational problems in places like Lasinchaga. And it also speaks to why your story is so freaking amazing, because you broke that cycle from the seat in a little skinny white boat. Mm-hmm. We'll be right back. You started figuring out what you were doing and you're practicing every day. Yeah, we're practicing every day.

Now, I don't know this. I get your practicing. Like, when we practice summer and spring football, we're practicing for the season and you practice a week between games. I don't know what a, is it a meat? What's a row competition called? It's called a regatta. Okay. So, so you, a regatta. So you got these kids from West Side that are practicing for their first regard And now from that first practice to the first for God, how much time do you have?

Oh, man, I mean you have a few months for some people some might really depends on it So it's a New Year's time. It's a new month. Are we talking about we got to get ready for our first regard? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Now when people in your high school See you for our first regatta. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. We have one. Now when people in your high school see you talking about

Rowan and talking about going to regatta, they have got to be folks looking at you cross. Yeah, they're like, what the man, isn't that a cheese when I know that's for a hotdog? That's for a hotdog. That's for a hotdog. That's for a hotdog.

That's for a hotdog. That's for a hotdog. That's for a hotdog. That's for a hotdog. That's for a hotdog. That's for a hotdog. That's for a hotdog. That's for a hotdog. Yeah, no, man, that ain't nothing. My mama got a beard. We got it. Right.

But for real, people had in school had to be kind of looking at your grace. Yeah, they were like, man, we were walking and you would see the guys making a beat on a rock and they would sing, roll, roll, roll your boat. They gave us a hard time. It was good. Yeah, that's not a real support. What do you guys do down there? You know what I mean?

And no one took a serious. And when I say it was like, there was three things that was tough. It was number one, the school laughing at us, didn't take your serious. The school kids. The school kids. The school kids. And then a mixture of parents and some other cultures

like this is $1 million contracts after this. Like what are you doing? It's not a real sport. If you want to make some money for your family, do a ball sport. Yeah, I got news for you. How many million dollar contracts came out of the high school that you went to?

One. Out of parent years. Years, one. One part Out of hearing. Years. One. One part of how many years? I mean, Maley been there, I don't know, maybe Maley been there for 67 years, we have one NBA player. 60 years.

Yeah. Right. Times 900 kids. Wow. Okay. That's 54,000. That's one. Wow.

In 54,000 odds. Wow. Did you go get a million dollar contract? No, one. I can't. You're going to get a me and dollar. No one can't. What's a good. And my guess is you have a better chance actually going to college. You just gave me some new material bill. Thank you.

Just you know, there's you. Mark Twain said there's truth. There's damn truth and then their stats. Well, there's your stats. There you go. Right. And so it was that, and then a mixture of like, I told you, parents have to teach that. And then there was like the boat house.

No one told these 21 black boys from the West Side of Chicago that they're gonna be sharing a boat house for a couple like couple private schools What's a boat house? I don't know what that is a boat house is where you know about A boat house is where you house the boats you go in there and it's like 40 boats are they your boats or No, the boats belong to the private schools So we don't know the boat we borrow the boats from some of the private schools. So we don't know the boat. We don't know the boat. We borrow the boats. From some of the private schools. Meaning they're giving you their raggedy

out practice boat. The oldest boat that you can find. And some, are they called ors or what are they called? Ors. There you go. It's probably some broke up. Yep. Okay.

And that's what we had. And one black dude for the West Side of Chicago. So at times, no one really said anything crazy to us, but our home Bullhouse did feel like an away game at times. And so we had to deal with the school, the Bullhouse, and teachers and parents saying, what the heck are y'all doing here? That was the dynamic. But why did you feel it? We felt it the stairs the stairs. Were you more of a humorous curiosity, or were you a threat?

I think we were both are equally disturbed. Yeah, it gives us a threat. I think we were threat. I felt it. I think we were more of a threat to the kids, but more like the human part with some of the coaches and You a threat to steal their stuff and kill them or you were threat to take over their rowing world I think maybe a little bit of take over the wrong world But also like their stuff in their locker right I I knew that was that I never read any of it, but I knew that was good answers. So how'd that feel? It didn't feel welcome. It felt like, to be honest, it felt like, man, like what you guys talking about,

how tough we had to be to mentally prepare for race, the race, and then now prepare for like also some race issues. It just felt like we had a lot to deal with It felt like another way added to our show so now we got to navigate through the west side of Chicago And now we're gonna navigate through this new space this white space of rowing So two worlds to navigate through safely, right, but you keep going back Yes, why? Because we need we needed a break from the gunshots the fire

So trucks the police sirens my rules at the NASA's where you can only wear a blue and gold Those only colors you're allowed All right, and the reason is same thing You know the crypts are this color the bloods of this color, the bloods are this color, the GDs are this color. Everybody's got their colors, right? Well, how do you have a football team where people have to have team work and fight for each other on a football field and then on Saturday night, everybody's wearing different colors, banging in the neighborhood, it gets your teammate. That's stupid, done work. So I made a quick rule. The only colors you route to wear if you play football from me or boom, go.

You also have to do your homework. You also have to be respectful teachers. You also have to hold the door open for a young lady if she's in front or behind you. You also have to say yes, ma'am, no ma'am. All kinds of real basic fundamental tenants. One very small freshman came to practice one day with knuckle bumps all over his forehead. I'm talking about he had been beat on and I'm like, bro,

what you know I'm not gonna use his name. I'm saying, bro, what you know what's up? He's like, it's all good coach. Let's roll. We got practice. I found out later that year that his gang was particularly violent and their rule was if you wanted to not wear our colors in order to play on that team you got to later that year that his gang was particularly violent and their role was if you wanted to not wear our colors in order to play on that team you got to take a one-minute three-man beatdown. So he had to stand there for a minute and take an out of the weapon from three grown-out men for them to give him permission to cross over and wear blue and gold meaning be part of the football team. Yet he did it. I had, as you can imagine, and I'm wondering if you heard this too,

I had some of my kids get called cell outs, Uncle Tom's, and that white man ain't got nothing for you. White coach in all black place. And so many of my players peers, they had to break relationships with some of them because they weren't down with a white coach and all that. And then, you know, he's going to sell you out, you know how it is. I mean, they had to put up with all that, not just from the many of them, not from the gangs, but I thought they're their own friends, from family members. Yet, they showed up every day,

and I finally understood why. It wasn't me. It wasn't me being inspirational. That two hours on that football field with those rules was the one positive thing those kids got to look forward to. And they did it because all of the rest of it was worth it to them for for that two hour of serenity in their life. Did you get called names by your peers because the coaches were white and it was a quote white sport and did you sense that it was all worth

it just for the headspace? Oh yeah, absolutely. We were called the same thing, sell out. Oh, you guys talking like you're white now. Well, you think you're better than us. Or, you know, again, you're off in a white man and the slave ship sell out. Slave ship?

Yeah. They called you, the kids are in school. Yeah, yeah. So you're all a roller in a slave ship. A roller in a slave ship. How'd that make you feel, man? Oh, man in school. Yeah, yeah. You said you're all a rollerous life. A rollerous life ship. How'd that make you feel, man? Oh, man, it was damaging, man. It was rough, you know?

It's because they support in every single sport in the school with set bars. Like everyone's getting rooted for set bars, you know? And we had to save time. You talk about eliminating the small dream because there's room for more dreams Eventually, you know you read that we went to Philly we raced in Iowa we raced in DC, you know all these different places In high school high school from what's that you from what's that? Someone who couldn't go downtown to see the series tower is finding himself in Philly and DC in a boat on the water racing.

Yeah, no, no. No one was doing what we was doing. And that kept us going like, I don't care if he was the star basketball player, who was traveling like that? Who would pass in a swim test? Who would eat in that nice restaurant? Who were finally interacting with different people. No one was doing that.

So that kept us going. But also at the same time, the fact that we didn't have anyone else helped us to connect as a brotherhood. Because we as I listen, we have to pull for each other. We don't have anyone else. You as a fact did become a crew. It became a crew. It was like, you know, soldier spec, you know, many years ago- It was all- It was all- It was all- It was all- It was all- It was all- It was all- It was all- It was all- It was all- It was all- It was all- It was all- It was all- It was all- It was all- It was all- It was all- It was all- It was all- It was all- It was all- It was all- It was all- It was all- It was all- It was all- It was all- It was all- It was all- It was all- It was all- It was all- It was all- It was all- It was all- It was all- It was all- It was all- It was all- It was all- It was all- It was all- It was all- It was all- It was all- It was all- It was all- It was all- It was all- It was all- It was all- It was all- It was all- It was all- It was all- It was all- It was all- It was all- It was all- It was all- It was all- It was all- It was all- It was all- It was all- It was all- It was all- It was all- It was all- It was all- It was all- It was like they were isolated from everything else. And it was like, listen, we have to fight for each other.

And that's kind of how it was for us. These guys are from different gangs and different neighborhoods. And they were sons of drug addicts, sons of drug dealers, sons of prostitutes. And the fact that no one else rooted for us, we started, and Malcolm said it beautifully, and felt we just rooted for each other. And that's when the brotherhood started. And hopefully our army of normal folks can become a brotherhood and a sisterhood too, just like Arche Cooper stood. Guys that concludes part two of our conversation with Arche Cooper and I hope you'll join us for part three that is now available.