An Army of Normal Folks - Atticus LeBlanc: Co-Living Is The Answer (Pt 1)

Episode Date: October 21, 2025

Atticus LeBlanc is the founder of PadSplit, the largest co-living marketplace in America. It’s like the Airbnb for room rentals, which both saves renters an average of $366 a month and can make property owners 2x as much money. Say hello to the solution to our affordable housing crisis that’s hiding in plain sight! Support the show: https://www.normalfolks.us/premiumSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

this was not charity by any stretch right i mean i increased my income in creating this opportunity which really just makes you feel like why is this not a thing why is everyone not doing this be a win-win for literally everyone exactly it's much cheaper more accessible for tiffany or anyone in her similar situation it's more profitable for the owner everyone should be doing this And I've been at this point in the affordable housing space for 10 years, and no one's even talking about it. Welcome to an army of normal folks. I'm Bill Courtney. I'm a normal guy. I'm a husband. I'm a father. I'm an entrepreneur. And I'm a football coach in Intercity Memphis. And the last part somehow led to an Oscar for one of my teams. That movie's called Undefeat. I believe our country's problems are never going to be solved by a bunch of fancy people in nice suits using words that nobody ever really uses on CNN and Fox, but rather by an army

of normal folks, us, just you and me deciding, hey, maybe I can help. That's what Atticus LeBlanc, the voice you just heard, has done. Atticus is the founder of Pad Split, the largest co-living market. marketplace in America. It's like the Airbnb for room rentals, which both saves renters an average of 366 bucks a month and makes property owners two times as much money. It's a win-win. It's a solution to our affordable housing crisis that's hiding right in plain sight and something that tons of Army members could be a part of. I cannot wait for you to meet Atticus right after these brief messages from our generous sponsors.

At 19, Elena Sada believed she had found her calling. In the new season of Sacred Scandal, we pulled back the curtain on a life built on devotion and deception. A man of God, Marcial Massiel, looked Elena in the eye and promised her a life of purpose within the Legion of Christ. My name is Elena Sada and this is my story It's a story of how I learned to hide, to cry

To survive and eventually how I got out This season on Sacred Scandal Hear the full story from the woman who lived it Witness the journey from devout follower To determine survivor As Elena exposes the man behind the cloth And the system that protected him Even the darkest secrets eventually find

their way to the light. Listen to Secret Scandal, the mini-secrets of Marcial Massiel, as part of the My Cultura Podcast Network on the IHeard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Malcolm Gladwell here. This season on Revisionous History, we're going back to the spring of 1988, to a town in northwest Alabama, where a man committed a crime that would spiral out of control.

35 years. That's how long Elizabeth's and its family, waited for justice to occur, 35 long years. I want to figure out why this case went on for as long as it did, why it took so many bizarre and unsettling turns along the way, and why, despite our best efforts to resolve suffering, we all too often make suffering worse. He would say to himself, turn to the right, to the victim's family,

and apologize, turn to the left, tell my family I love him. So he had this little practice, to the right, I'm sorry, to the left, I love you. From Revisionous History, this is The Alabama Murders. Listen to Revisionist History, The Alabama Murders on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm I'm Yvesa. And on our podcast, Hungry for History, we mix two of our favorite things, food and history. Ancient Athenians used to scratch names onto oyster shells, and they called these Oster Khan to vote politicians into exile. So our word ostracize is related to the word oyster.

No way. Bring back the OsterCon. And because we've got a very Mikaasa is Su Casa kind of vibe on our show, friends always stop by. Pretty much every entry into this side of the planet was through the Gulf of Mexico. No, the America. No, the America. The Gulf of Mexico, continue to be it forever and ever.

It blows me away how progressive Mexico was. in this moment. They had land reform. They had labor rights. They had education rights. Mustard seeds were so valuable to the ancient Egyptians that they used to place them in their tombs for the afterlife. Listen to Hungry for History as part of the Mycultura podcast network, available on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. The internet is something we make, not just something that happens to us. I'm Bridget Todd, host of the tech and culture podcast. There are no girls on the internet. There are no growth on the internet is not just about tech.

It's about culture and policy and art and expression and how we as humans exist and fit with one another. In our new season, I'm talking to people like Emile Dash, an OG entrepreneur and writer who refuses to be cynical about the internet. I love tech. You know, I've been a nerd my whole life, but it does have to be for something. Like, it's not just for its own sake. It's a fascinating exploration about the power of the internet for both good and bad. They use WhatsApp to get the price of rice at the market that is all. and 12 hours away.

They're not going to be like, we don't like the terms of service, therefore we're not trading rice this season. It's an inspiring story that focuses on people as the core building blocks of the internet. Platforms exist because of the regular people on them, and I think that's a real important story to keep repeating. I created there are no girls on the internet because the future belongs to all of us.

New episodes every Tuesday and Friday. Listen to there are no girls on the internet on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. Talking about guns with others might not always feel comfortable, it could save a life. Here's a way to start a conversation. Your family is going over to your neighbor's home for dinner for the first time. How would you ask if there are any unlocked guns in the home? Hey! Hey, we're so excited for tonight. Before we come over, though, may I ask if there are any unlocked guns in your home? Our guns are stored securely, locked in a safe that the kids

can't access. Awesome. Learn how to have the conversation at Agree2agree.org. Brought to you by the Ad Council. Atticus LeBlanc, welcome to Memphis. Thank you very much. Appreciate it. Were your parents fans of To Kill a Mockingbird? You guessed correctly. Yes, they were.

Both were big fans. There are a number of stories about how I got the name. The one I choose to go with is that they wanted to give me someone to live up to. Very, very cool. Your real story, for our purposes, picks up in 2002, really. I think you moved to Atlanta, and you're making $30,000 a year, and you've rented a room is kind of how the story starts as far as I know. So just kind of pick us up there and tell me what was going on in your world. Yeah, well, the first thing, I followed a girl that brought me to Atlanta. Oh, well, there you have. That's a pretty important part of it. story, yeah. So she was, she wanted to be in public health and work in international HIV prevention. So Atlanta, home with CDC, was a great place for that. So she came to get her, her master's in public health here.

I followed her down here. In Atlanta. In Atlanta. You're saying here. Yeah, here. That's true. That's true. I did just, I did just get off the plane. So, so I followed her here. I wanted to do real estate somewhere in the south and Atlanta. Wow, real estate. Was that something you, did you study real estate? I did. I did. So I kind of fell into it in college. I had no idea. I thought I was going to be an attorney like my mom and my namesake. So I was going to be an English major and be an attorney and then took a class that was kind of role playing for real estate. Your middle name's not Finch, is it? No, it's Bryant. Okay, go ahead. But I had to ask. So I just got a taste of what the life of someone in real estate was like or a developer and just how you could kind of take something from concept to completion. just absolutely fell in love. So I came down here not knowing anyone other than my girlfriend

at the time. Fortunately, now my wife, I followed the right girl. Perfect. And just started looking for, okay, well, now what? How do I actually carve out a career in this space, not knowing anyone, took a job? So you literally showing up in Atlanta in 2002, dreaming of real estate making... Not much money. Yeah, it was, it was, the equivalent, the equivalent, of 10 bucks an hour. I was working really long hours. It was a, it was like a boutique little consulting firm, but basically I was a guy in a cube with my hands on the keyboard and an Excel spreadsheet in front of me for 12 hours a day. Fun. Yeah. Yeah, it was a blast. But, you know, I didn't have any financial background. So anyone I talked to said, oh, well, you really need to

understand the financial piece of the business. And so that's where I started and lasted six months before I realized I cannot sit in this cubicle any longer and I have to get out there and just figure out another way. So then I got the glamorous job of working for racetrack gas convenience stores. As my younger brother used to tease, he went to the Ivy League so you can go pump gas, which is only partially true. I was working in the real estate division for them. But it ended up being a really, really interesting role. I knew it wasn't anything that I wanted to do long term, but I knew that I wanted to get out of the cube. And this was a great venue for that. And we were interacting on a weekly basis with the CEO of the company. And of course,

they were growing very rapidly. And it was an opportunity to just meet tons of people all around the southeast, I was usually engaging with folks trying to convince them to sell their property for a racetrack gas station, which could have been an office owner or literally like a farmer, sometimes next to one another. So it was super interesting and I really just, I think I became more extroverted and just much more comfortable talking to anyone from any walk of life in that role. That would be a requisite for a job like that, for sure. Yeah, yeah, no doubt. And, yeah, it was only two and a half years in when they had given me a non-compete agreement.

I had actually written some site selection criteria for how I thought they should be picking locations based on the performance data of stores that had been operating for a long time. And they liked it. They liked it a lot. But that ended in a non-compete agreement that said, oh, here, take this. You know, you're going up with some really good stuff, so we're not sure we want you to be around here anymore and start competing with us. Exactly, exactly. That happened. It does.

It does. And, I mean, I didn't fault them for it. But maybe in my naivete as a young professional, I told my boss at the time, I saw a draft of the non-compete agreement. I was like, oh, I would never sign that. And so with that, I pretty much sealed my fate, I think. So 2005, then, if I'm doing the math right, you got out of the cubicle. You actually learned some applied experience in negotiating for land and real estate deals and kind of got to see it and we're learning a lot of people, but you're still a young guy.

Yeah. Yeah. And so now it's time to tell the audience who Atticus LeBlanc is. He's the founder and CEO of Pad Split, which I got to be honest with. Never heard of it until now. And now I can't quit thinking about how I'm going to get involved in Pad Split. It's really cool. But there's a lot before we get there to set it up.

So in 2005, I assume because that is something you never going to sign, you said, Asta Vista, baby. Yeah. Yeah. So I... But you're 20... I was 25. I was 21 when I said Oslo Vista and took my deep dive and tried to bankrupt myself about seven or eight times.

Yeah. Yeah. But 25's young. It was. Were you married at this time? It's funny. I actually, I had to leave 10 days before my wedding. Oh, my gosh.

Your wife said okay or your feet. fiance at the time? She did. She wasn't worried. I teased, though, my, my father-in-law is just very straight-laced, has done absolutely everything by the book. And I tease that he must have been thrilled with me. Oh, he must have. Ten days before you're going to marry my daughter, you quit. Yeah, exactly. Wow. Exactly. So, yes. It takes that, though. It did. Well, and I mean, I was, again, maybe young and stupid and just full of putzpah and confident that I could figure out a way to make it work. I also saw through that job that the real estate brokers on the other side of the table who were often doing the negotiating for the seller were making

really good commission checks on the back end. And I thought, oh, well, if I'm on this side, I can totally go do that. And so that's, that was the first jump. And then, of course, that business takes a while to build, because it's a relationship business. And so for the next few years... Do you have any money? No, I didn't have any money. No, but... And actually, we forgot a pretty important piece, which was when I went from renting that room, I was renting a room when you first got to Atlanta. When I got to Atlanta, I was renting that room for six months. And then when that lease was up with the guy who actually was on the lease, he said he was going to move in with his girlfriend. or something. And so I was left to figure out what I was going to do and started looking at

apartments and then said, oh, well, for what I'm going to pay in rent for this crappy apartment, I can actually buy a house. And so I bought a house when I was 23 at essentially zero money down. And my mortgage with insurance and everything was like $717 a month. And so that was the only reason I was able to leave racetrack at the time and feel comfortable 10 days before my wedding, even though a lot of the other people were presented with the same agreement and wanted to leave, they weren't in a position where they had bills that were low enough, where they could justify the risk of taking on a new venture. And so when I left Racetrack, I did two things. One, I said, okay, well, I want to build my business as a real estate broker and kind of wear my own

hat and kind of build my own shop. But the second thing was, well, I also want to figure out what my contingency plan is. And so the contingency plan was this little house that I had bought in 2003 out of foreclosure was not in a great area. It was in a very transitional. I would think in Atlanta for that kind of money, it was on the fringe. That is correct. Yeah, on the fringe, and it was a fixer upper. And there was an abandoned house right next door where my wife, Allison, I used to kind of have to scare people out of the driveway because some people would bring prostitutes in the driveway. Anyway, So we're like, okay, we're going to solve this problem, and I think I can get a mortgage using my racetracked W-2 income and my wife's income to buy this house.

And then I can use, I have equity now in the first home that I purchased that I can borrow against to fix it up. And then I can sell that house that's fixed up and make some money that way. So those were kind of the two. And get rid of the hookers and the drawaway. Yes, yes. That was a win-win. Yeah, that was a happy benefit.

So that was like the two-prong approach to entrepreneurship for me in 2005. One of those things worked out really well, and one didn't work out at all. Which is? So the house sold in late 2006 just before things started getting a little bit dicey in the real estate market. And my brokerage career really took a nosedive in 2007. Because I was a land guy, we were at the very front end of the financial credit. crisis. And so I started feeling the repercussions of that long before the general public or other aspects of the market would. My first son was born in September of 2007.

My wife, whose dream job was to work for the UN, had had that dream job for a little bit and decided that she hated it. And she wanted to stop working and take care of the baby. I'm like, well, she's obviously helped support me for the last several years at this point. So I accepted that. And over the next three weeks, though, I had three large deals, and every single one of them fell apart. And so I ended up making a total of $10,000 in 2007, had a new baby at home and a wife who had just left her job. Timings, everything. Exactly. Yeah, so it was perfect.

And now, a few messages from our generous sponsors. But first, I hope you'll follow us on your favorite social media channels where we share more powerful content, including reels from our video studio and testimonials from Army members. We're at Army of Normal folks on every channel. Give us a follow. We'll be right back. at 19 elena sadda believed she had found her calling in the new season of sacred scandal we pulled back the curtain on a life built on devotion and deception a man of god marcial masiel looked elena in the eye and promised her a life of purpose within the legion of christ my name is elena sadda and this is my story it's a story of how i learned to hide to cry to survive and eventually how I got out.

This season on Sacred Scandal hear the full story from the woman who lived it. Witness the journey from devout follower to determine survivor as Elena exposes the man behind the cloth and the system that protected him. Even the darkest secrets eventually find their way to the lights. Listen to Secret Scandal, the mini secrets of Marcial Masiel as part of the MyCultura podcast network on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get her podcasts. Malcolm Gladwell here.

This season on Revisionous History, we're going back to the spring of 1988 to a town in northwest Alabama where a man committed a crime that would spiral out of control. 35 years. That's how long Elizabeth's and its family waited for justice to occur.

35 long years. I want to figure out why this case went on for as long as it did. why it took so many bizarre and unsettling turns along the way, and why, despite our best efforts to resolve suffering, we all too often make suffering worse. He would say to himself, turn to the right, to the victim's family, and apologize,

turn to the left, tell my family I love him. So he had this little practice, to the right, I'm sorry, to the left, I love you. From Revisionous History, this is The Alabama Murders. Listen to Revisionist History, The Alabama Murders, on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. I'm Ibel Ongoria. And I'm Maitegamezrejoin.

And on our podcast, Hungry for History, we mix two of our favorite things, food and history. Ancient Athenians used to scratch names onto oyster shells, and they called these Ostercon, to vote politicians into exile. So our word ostracize is related to the word oyster. No way. Bring back the Ostercon.

And because we've got a very meek-a-a-a-exia. Kasa is Su Kasa kind of vibe on our show. Friends always stopped by. Pretty much every entry into this side of the planet was through the Gulf of Mexico. No, the America. No, the America. The Gulf of Mexico, continue to be so forever and ever, it blows me away how progressive Mexico was in this moment. They had land reform. They had labor rights. They had education rights.

Mustard seeds were so valuable to the ancient Egyptians that they used to. to place them in their tombs for the afterlife. Listen to Hungry for History as part of the My Cultura Podcast Network, available on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. The Internet is something we make, not just something that happens to us. I'm Bridget Todd, host of the Tech and Culture Podcast, Their Honor Goes on the Internet. Their Arnold grows on the Internet is not just about tech. It's about culture and policy and art and expression,

and how we as humans exist and fit with one another. In our new season, I'm talking to people like Emile Gryl. an OG entrepreneur and writer who refuses to be cynical about the internet. I love tech. You know, I've been a nerd my whole life, but it does have to be for something. Like, it's not just for its own sake. It's a fascinating exploration about the power of the internet for both good and bad. They use WhatsApp to get the price of rice at the market that is often 12 hours away.

They're not going to be like, we don't like the terms of service, therefore we're not trading rice this season. It's an inspiring story that focuses on people as the core building blocks of the internet. Platforms exist because of the regular people on them, and I think that's a real important story to keep repeating. I created There Are No Girls on the Internet because the future belongs to all of us. New episodes every Tuesday and Friday. Listen to There Are No Girls on the Internet on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Talking about guns with others might not always feel comfortable, but it could save a life. Here's a way to start a conversation.

Your family is going over to your neighbor's home for dinner for the first time. How would you ask if there are any unlocked guns in the home? Hey. Hey, we're so excited for tonight. Before we come over, though, may I ask if there are any unlocked guns in your home? Our guns are stored securely, locked in a safe that the kids can't access. Awesome. Learn how to have the conversation at Agree2agree.org.

Brought to you by the Ad Council. I started my business in 2001, September 1. Oh, wow. Of 2001. I had, my children were 5, 4, 3, and 2. We got on city water and it cleared up, but they just kept coming for some reason. And got over that hump, and I had $17,000 in the bank when I started my business. And now I'm in manufacturing, so it's asset-laden, lots of employees.

It's very hard to cash flow. And I bought out my investors in mid-2006, all leveraged. And we're talking millions of dollars. And I never even, millions of dollars, never even entered my vocabulary before then. I came from nothing. And I'm in the hardwood lumber business. So you think lands on the front end. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

we if people are building homes they're thinking about flooring in cabinets and molding and millwork in the development phrase and if cabinet companies and millwork companies aren't don't have a log of six to nine months worth of orders then they're not buying wood and our wood is not wood that you cut down a tree and it becomes usable lumber like pine. Our stuff takes a year to two years to get right. So the whole point is, hearing your story, oddly, I feel it. Because it was in late 2006 and early 2000. Everybody says it's the crash of 2000, whatever, eight or whatever. For us, there's a crash at 2006, late 2006, 2007. And I mean, it was layoffs for a six-year-old company. It was layoffs.

It was banked at, it was scratch, it was not paying myself, it was literally wondering month by month if we were going to cash full enough for me to keep the doors open. So when you say, and I had four small children and a wife taking care of them at home and it just bought a house. So I'm just saying to you, those who are listening to us that didn't experience business or entrepreneurship or troubles at that time, they were very, very. real. Yeah. So how do you live on $10,000 of the wife and a kid? You borrow. A lot.

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it was true, but I took two contract jobs, kind of doing brokerage type work for other people. And mostly, as you know, I mean, it was a terrible job market as well, certainly for any of the skills that I had, and it's not like people were hiring. But I was walking around like a penguin for a while trying to figure out, okay, what was I going to do? And how could I find a way? And I went back, okay, well, the house next door worked out well.

Well, I bet your father-in-law really loved you about right now. I got to give credit to him. And he has been nothing but supportive throughout the entire journey. And he and my wife both have never had anything but confidence that I would make it work. It's pretty cool. It's really been amazing. It doesn't work if you don't have that support. No doubt.

When you feel like the world's falling apart, when you have that to lean on, somehow it makes it okay. Yeah, I mean, the word rock does not do justice enough. But you sold that house. Yeah. So we sold the house next door, and that was helpful. And then we had the line of credit. Right. So when we sold the house, we got the line of credit back to be able to draw.

And so I knew, okay, well, I can survive off of this line of credit for like two years. years. Now, we're eating rice and beans, but we can make it work. And so then how do I, but what I really started thinking was how do I get myself into a position where I'm not relying on other people's decision making. And when the brokerage business, you were entirely beholden to your client and they could make a good decision or a terrible decision. And I was interested in the value. I could see areas around Atlanta where I thought this is a great deal. But I was interested in the best value for the lowest price. Like that was just the investor mindset.

And that doesn't really pay off as a broker generally. So that was something that was always under the surface that was bothering me. And so I started thinking, okay, well, I have this line of credit. What can I go buy with this line of credit? It was $50,000. So I had this line of credit against my home for $50,000. And so I start looking at other houses. The one next door worked out well.

So what else can I do? did you only need to have enough credit for a down payment? So $50,000 on a credit, it could give you $5,000, $10,000 down payments. Yeah, the problem was we couldn't borrow money. We didn't qualify for the difference. So you were having to pay cash. Correct. Yeah, so you had the entirety of that 50 grand to go buy a house.

So I'm like, okay, well, let me look. You're still on the fringe. Yeah, we're definitely in the fringe. And so I started looking inside the, the, perimeter I-285 in Atlanta, and my search was under $50,000. Like, what's, what can I find for under $50,000? And I had done that search before, and usually it was 50 burned out shacks in the worst parts of town. And this one day in November 2007, as I get back to this realization and start looking again, there are 1,100 houses. And- Is it because the housing market's crashed?

Yes. There's an opportunity. Exactly. But there, it wasn't, it was not public yet that the housing market had crashed. So I'm calling all these real estate. You're on the front end and people like me know it, but people live in the normal world don't feel it yet because we're on the leading edge of it. That makes complete sense. Yeah, exactly right. So you're starting to see it before anybody else does and you're starting to see the very first of the houses starting to become available. Well, now that's interesting. Yeah. So timing is everything, isn't it? It is. It is. And I mean, God works in mysterious ways. It does. Right. But, um, So I started looking and I was calling all these real estate agents asking what was going on and nobody could give me any answers.

They didn't even really know. No, they didn't. They didn't. I mean, they just said that the bank floods started happening in October. Most of the early houses were all kind of mortgage fraud type deals. So you would see prior sales for like $250,000 for this little house that in no way, shape, or form could have ever actually sold for $250,000. But it was still cheaper than anything had been in the last four years for that same property, same neighborhood, et cetera. And these were, I mean, in-town neighborhoods, not necessarily on the fringe, in some cases absolutely past the fringe, but many of them were in relatively stable neighborhoods. And so it kind of left me both scratched my head.

Are we talking new cookie cutter construction houses? Are we talking houses built to the 60s and 70s? that the bones were there. Yeah, mostly, so you kind of have two eras of development. You have one that was like 1920s, these really historic neighborhoods. Cold bungalow type places. Yeah, exactly. And Memphis is full of them.

Yeah. Yeah. And then the other era would be like 1950s, early 60s. Ranch style. Yeah, post-World War II. The World War II vets coming home and getting the 1,200 square foot, three-bedroom, two-baths, small kitchen. Yeah, 900 to 1,200 square foot. But those houses. Exactly. Exactly. This is full of those. Yeah. I mean, pretty much every city. Every city has. Yeah, every city has these.

Especially in the city center. Exactly. Because that's where the city was before a group. Okay, it makes tons of sense. So, um, so in any case, so I, I try to convince anyone who will listen to me, uh, friends, family, my former clients. Your father-in-law. I was pretty sure he was out. way too conservative to invest in this I was just I was thankful that he tolerated me for as long as he did so so yeah I ended up creating a little company called Atlanta Housing Fund so we that'll give you an idea of how early it was that Atlanta Housing Fund was available as a name and Atlanta Housing Fund still only has two houses but bought 13 houses under $30,000 the first year

Okay, so you used the 50 grand, bought this house for 30. So, yeah, so I bought, I bought three houses. My goal was if I can get to 10, if I can get to 10 on my own, then I can replace an income, and then I don't have to worry about what other people decide to do or not do, and I can just know that I have a stable income for my family. Yeah, but what I'm saying is, the first house, how much was it? $24,900. Okay, what it appraised for?

Oh, gosh, at that time, probably $27,000. Okay, so how did you buy 10 in the first year? Because if you can't borrow and you're having to use that line of credit, if there's no equity in what you buy immediately, how do you turn? Exactly. Exactly right. So what I did was I only ended up buying three on my own over the course of that first year. You raised money for the, quote, Atlanta Housing Fund.

Correct. Yeah. So there were two other entities because I knew I couldn't turn them, right? And there was no liquidity from banks available. That's what I was asking. Yeah, I don't know how many banks I walked into where they're like, oh, this is a really interesting idea. No.

No, we can't. Yeah, it's a great leaf. Exactly. So you're into OPM now. So it was all cash. And what I would do so that I could actually eat was, I would say, to these other investors, you pay me $3,000 to find the home, buy the home, manage the renovation, and manage the property, but then you give me a third of the income moving forward.

We'll be right back. At 19, Elena Sada believed she had found her calling. In the new season of Secret Scandal, we pulled back the curtain on a life built on devotion and deception. A man of God, Marcial Massiel, looked Elena in the eye and promised her a life of purpose within the Legion of Christ. My name is Elena Sada, and this is my story. It's a story of how I learned to hide, to cry, to survive, and eventually how I got out. This season on Sacred Scandal hear the full story from the woman who lived it.

Witness the journey from devout follower to determine survivor as Elena exposes the man behind cloth and the system that protected him. Even the darkest secrets eventually find their way to the light. Listen to Secret Scandal, the mini secrets of Marcial Masiel, as part of the My Cultura podcast network on the IHeard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Malcolm Gladwell here. This season on Revisionous History, we're going back to the spring of 1988,

to a town in northwest Alabama, where a man committed a crime that would spiral out of control. 35 years. That's how long Elizabeth's and its family waited for justice to occur. 35 long years. I want to figure out why this case went on for as long as it did, why it took so many bizarre and unsettling turns along the way, and why, despite our best efforts to resolve suffering, we all too often make suffering worse. He would say to himself, turn to the right to the victim's family and apologize, turn to the left, tell my family I love him. So he had this little practice. To the right, I'm sorry, to the left,

I love you. From Revisionous History, this is The Alabama Murders. Listen to Revision's History, the Alabama Murders on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm I'm Yvesa. And I'm Maitego, Mr. Juan. And on our podcast, hungry for history, we mix two of our favorite things, food and history. Ancient Athenians used to scratch names onto oyster shells, and they called these Ostercon, to vote politicians into exile. So our word ostracize is related to the word oyster. No way. Bring back the Ostercon.

And because we've got a very Micasa is Suu Kasa kind of vibe on our show, friends always stop by. Pretty much every entry into this side of the planet was through the Gulf of Mexico. No, the America. No, the America. at. The Gulf of Mexico, continue

forever and ever. It blows me away how progressive Mexico was in this moment. They had land reform, they had labor rights, they had education rights. Mustard seeds were so valuable

to the ancient Egyptians that they used to place them in their tombs for the afterlife. Listen to Hungry for History as part of the My Cultura Podcast Network, available on the IHeart Radio app,

Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. The internet is something we make, not just something that happens to us. I'm Bridget Todd, host of the Tech and Culture Podcast, There Are No Grows on the Internet. There Are No Gros on the Internet is not just about tech. It's about culture and policy and art and expression and how we as humans exist and fit with one another. In our new season, I'm talking to people like Emile Dash, an OG entrepreneur and writer who refuses to be cynical about the Internet. I love tech.

You know, I've been a nerd my whole life, but it does have to be for something. Like, it's not just for its own sake. It's a fascinating exploration about the power of the internet for both good and bad. They use WhatsApp to get the price of rice at the market that is often 12 hours away. They're not going to be like, we don't like the terms of service, therefore we're not trading rice this season. It's an inspiring story that focuses on people as the core building blocks of the internet. Platforms exist because of the regular people on them, and I think that's a real important story to keep repeating. I created there are no girls on the internet because the future belongs to all of us.

New episodes every Tuesday and Friday. Listen to There Are No Girls on the Internet on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Talking about guns with others might not always feel comfortable, but it could save a life. Here's a way to start a conversation. Your family is going over to your neighbor's home for dinner for the first time. How would you ask if there are any unlocked guns in the home? Hey! Hey, we're so excited for tonight.

Before we come over, though, may I ask if there are any unlocked guns in your home? Our guns are stored securely, locked in a safe that the kids can't access. Awesome. Learn how to have the conversation at Agree2agree.org, brought to you by the Ad Council. You're in property management is what you're doing. Correct. At first. Well, well, not just property management.

I mean, it was. Brokering to you. It was the brokering. It was the project management of the construction. I was reasonably good. The rehab, I assume. Yep. Yeah.

But they would pay me $3,000. So those. really 10 houses that I bought with other people's money the first year, paid me 30 grand. And then I had those two other contract jobs. So that's how I could kind of recreate an income for 2008. You are still squint. You're hustling. Yes. Yeah. It was absolutely a hustle. You're swimming in a housing medley. But it was, right? But it was a lot of learning in the early years. And I was, I mean, I knew these neighborhoods like the back of my hand after the first year where I had memorized like every single house on every single block that I was interested in buying it,

uh, over a four year period. What was the criteria? Um, what made it the value, your words? Yeah. So, uh, first thing first was I had to be willing to drive there at 11 o'clock at night with my wife in the car. I love that. And so, If it met that criteria, I was interested. Generally, what I found was you wanted something that hadn't been lipstick on a pig, if you're familiar with that terminology. Absolutely. You wanted to see as much of an original condition as you could so that you knew what you were working with

and you could more reliably budget. If the air conditioning unit was still there and outside the house, that was a goldmine. That meant like, okay. Because that meant the neighborhood was probably decent and had neighbors looking out. More the latter than the former. What I realized very quickly is there's no such thing as good neighborhood, bad neighborhood. And I knew this from living in my own house as well, which was on the fringe. It's good neighbor, bad neighbor.

And if that air conditioning unit were in place, you knew that a foreclosure process took long enough where it had been sitting there exposed for a long period of time. So there was a good neighbor somewhere around that was keeping an eye on. things. Love it. That's cool. So those, I mean, that was really, that was really about it. And it was, it was a gut field.

Not number of bedrooms or square footage. That did matter as much. No, no. I mean, the, you knew because the Atlanta Housing Authority at the time was shutting down the housing projects, they would give housing vouchers to renters. And so you knew, like, how much each bedroom would pay. So you could do that math and figure out, all right, well, I can buy this house and be fully renovated for $45,000 and get $900 to $1,000 in rent, and that math works.

That math does work. Yeah. Even if you're, were you financing these things over 30 years? Not initially. The only way we were able to roll the funds eventually was we found one credit union who would refinance the properties after they had been stabilized and rented and cash flowing for six months. And so once we found that, it became a different.

a different game because now you could recycle some of the capital. Would they take a 30-year note? 2015? What would a credit union take on a house like that? So yeah, some of them were 30 but most of them were like 15-year 15-year loans.

That makes sense. But it was attractive enough for it to make sense. And so by 2009, all my friends, family, former clients, everybody was out of money. But one of the guys That's funny.

You tapped everyone. Literally, everything was in the houses, and anybody else who had money out there was not interested in this particular strategy. Some of them I still tease about today. Say what you could have done. Yeah, exactly. But there was one guy, Stan Sugarman, who was in the Atlanta Housing Fund partnership. I'd worked with him at Racetrack, interestingly, and he had been one of the first investors in Illinois. Atlanta Housing Fund, and he was ready to leave his job in 2009. And he'd bought into this strategy

and thought, okay, this was going to be a worthwhile endeavor. So he was going to go do it on his own. I was like, well, why don't we just team up? Because I can see that we are very different personalities and skill sets, but I can see that you're hustling every bit as hard or harder than I am. And I think it would just be a good partnership. And for anyone who knows Stan and I, like, we're very different people, but it's been a fantastic partnership to this day. And so his idea was he was going to go, he's Jewish, and there were guys at a synagogue that would loan money at 13% interest with three percentage points rolled into the loan every six months. So it was like 16 to 19% interest. Wow. I guess they would loan money like that.

Exactly. I'd loan money like that. It's a good business. So they would loan They would loan this money to us, but it was at 100% financing. Oh. And so we could then go buy these properties at really high interest rates, but 100% financing, and then roll them over into the credit union. After six of months, right farm. Exactly.

And so we kept buying, most of them were affordable rentals through the Housing Choice or Section 8 program. One we did with, actually a number we did. We started this program called the Neighborhood Stabilization Program, which was federal dollars in the crash, where you had to meet certain criteria. It had to be affordable housing. And so that was a public-private partnership with the city of Atlanta. And then the other thing that was really interesting was one of the first houses that became vacant after the tenant moved out after a year, right next door was a rooming house.

So I had seen these rooming houses all around town as I was driving these. different blocks. But my degree was in architecture and urban studies. I'd never heard the term rooming houses outside of the context of like 1920s, New York. But there was one next door to this vacant house that I had, and I got to know one of the guys who lived there. His name was Mitch. And Mitch earned $735 a month total income. So he had some sort of liver disease and was disabled, and he was on Social Security income. And Mitch comes to me one day when the house is vacant and says, hey, can we come rent rooms in your house? Because this house is going to get foreclosed and we're all going to be evicted.

And a couple things occurred to me at that moment. One, when I learned that Mitch is earning $735 a month, I realize Mitch is not going to qualify for anything anywhere in the city. Mitch is that foreclosure way from literally being a homeless man. Yes. On the streets, begging for money. Yeah, exactly. And where do they send a social security check when you don't have a... Yeah.

What you're saying now dives into a whole societal thing that people really don't understand that Mitch is disabled. He is getting $730 a month. But what does that afford them? and if it doesn't afford him anything, he literally is now a homeless guy and good luck getting the money to him

when he doesn't have a residence. And it's as a really slippery, teetery slope that once it starts downhill, the wheels come off. And there's hundreds of thousands of Americans like Mitch. Yeah, especially in 2009 when, I mean, it was all paper checks and nowhere to go. But what I realize is,

even in the worst parts, well beyond the fringe, worst parts of town, crappiest departments, most property managers are looking at three times the rent for an income requirement. Well, we're in the depths of the crash. Like, it is clear to everyone in 2009. Like, oh, yeah, we are in it.

We don't know if we're ever going to come out of it. Yep. Banks are failing. The government's buying, propping up B of A or somebody else. I mean, it was terrible. And nobody's coming to save Mitch. Right.

Well, and there are no units available at the $200 in change per month that he can actually qualify for. And so that was the first thing. The second thing I realized, wait a second. Well, how many other people have that same problem that they're not going to qualify for anything? And you realize the entire service sector, right? Anybody working minimum wage jobs or working at McDonald's or Wendy's or what have you, like they have a very similar problem because when housing is as cheap as it's ever been, and it's still not cheap enough for those people to qualify,

you've got a massive issue. Even for an apartment. Correct. And that house that they had been living in, there had been a tarp on the roof the entire year that I had... Are you kidding? Had the house next door. There had been no heating and air conditioning,

wires hanging off the side, and they were paying $100 a week for rooms. Which, how many were in that house? There were $5 in that house. It's $2,000 a month. It's more than that, are 4.3 weeks in a month, not only four. That's right. So 2450 a month, about. Yeah, yeah. Now, like... How in the world can the tenant lose that property when he has that kind of income coming in on a place that is clearly not cost so much?

Great question. I mean, who knows? But the fact is, it's getting foreclosed on. It's getting foreclosed on. And that concludes part one of our conversation with Atticus LeBlanc, and you don't want to miss part two that's now available to listen to. Together, guys, we can change this country, but it starts with you. I'll see in part two. that uncovers hidden truths and shattered faith. For 19 years, Elena Sata was a nun for the Legion of Christ. This season, she's telling her story.

When I first joined the Legion of Christ, I felt chosen. I was 19 years old when Marcia and Masel, the leader of the Legionaries, look me in the eye and told me I had a calling. Surviving meant hiding, escaping took courage, risking everything to tell her truth. Listen to sacred scandal, the many secrets of Marcial Masiel, on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast. or wherever you get your podcasts.

Malcolm Gladwell here, this season on Revisionous History, we're going back to the spring of 1988 to a town in northwest Alabama, where a man committed a crime that would spiral out of control. And he said, I've been in prison 24, 25 years. That's probably not long enough. And I didn't kill him. From Revisionous History, this is The Alabama Murders. Listen to Revisionous History, The Alabama Murders on the IHeart Radio app,

Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Yvesa and I'm Maite Gomesja Juan, and this week on our podcast, Hungry for History, we talk oysters plus the Mianbi Chief stops by. If you're not an oyster lover, don't even talk to me. Ancient Athenians used to scratch names onto oyster shells to vote politicians into exile. So our word ostracize is related to the word oyster. No way. Bring back the Ostercon. Listen to Hungry for History on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

The internet is something we make, not just something that happens to us. I'm Bridget Todd, host of the Tech and Culture Podcasts or No Girls on the Internet. In our new season, I'm talking to people like Aneal Dash, an OG entrepreneur and writer who refuses to be cynical about the Internet. I love tech. You know, I've been a nerd my whole life, but it does have to be for something. Like, it's not just for its own sake. It's an inspiring story that focuses on people as the core building blocks. Box of the Internet.

Listen to There Are No Girls on the Internet on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. It's 1943, a king dies under mysterious circumstances in the middle of World War II. Was it murder? After 80 years of lies and cover-ups, his children need answers.

And, you know, kissed us and said, I'll see you tonight, and we never saw him again. From exactly right and Blanchard House, the Butterfly King is a gripping historical true crime series that dives deep into royal secrets, war-time cover-ups and a mystery that refuses to die. All episodes are available now.

Listen to the Butterfly King on the I-Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an I-Heart podcast.