An Army of Normal Folks - Bob Muzikowski: If I Get Half, My Neighbor Gets Half (Pt 1)

Episode Date: November 19, 2024

After accidentally moving next to the worst housing project in America, Bob Muzikowski dug in. He started a little league for its kids, then intentionally moved into the hood on Chicago’s West Side, and started the largest inner-city little league in the country there. Finally, when Bob sold part of his company, he donated 50% of his earnings to build a world-class school there called Chicago Hope Academy. Support the show: https://www.normalfolks.us/premiumSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

The next morning I go for a run and a block away, I come around a corner and there's 20, 15-story projects, Cabrini Green Housing Project. I had moved by mistake a block away from the worst housing project in America. Is that really true? Yeah. You didn't know. Yeah, so people... I mean, you're a smart guy. How'd you not know?

We came in from the, as he knows, from the lakeside. Seriously. Yeah. I mean, we had a U-Haul behind it. And I had a couple phone calls. So this is 33. So at night, I'm sitting on my deck that night. They were, pop, pop, pop, pop.

I don't think of this one. It was May. It was around Memorial Day, and I thought this must be a patriotic neighbor this year. Welcome to an army of normal folks. I'm Bill Courtney. I'm a normal guy. I'm a husband. I'm a father.

I'm an entrepreneur. And I've been a football coach in inner city Memphis. And the last part, somehow that led to an Oscar for the film about our team. That movie's called. Undefeated. Guys, I believe our country's problems will never be solved by a bunch of fancy people and nice suits using big words that nobody ever uses on CNN and Fox, but rather by an army of normal folks, us, just you and me deciding, hey, maybe I can help. That's what Bob Musakowski, the voice you just heard, has done. Bob accidentally moved into a home that was

next to the worst housing project in America, and instead of running, he dug in. He started a Little League for its kids, then intentionally moved into the hood on the west side of Chicago, and ended up starting the largest inner-city little league in the country. And finally, he decided that went enough, so we built a world-class school there called Chicago Hope Academy. And on top of all this, this dude is hilarious. I cannot wait for you to meet Bob right after these brief messages from our generous sponsors. Okay, new year, fresh start. And honestly, I'm starting with dinner.

This year, I'm being smarter about where my energy goes. And dinner was taking way too much of it. I just signed up for HelloFresh and they take Fresh start to a whole new level. Fresh high quality ingredients delivered right to my door, locally sourced whenever possible. Everything pre-portioned, nothing wasted. Now, I'm not dragging myself through weekend grocery runs or panic staring at the fridge at 530 trying to make something out of random leftovers. And I'm definitely not tossing out food I never used or falling back on expensive takeout apps because I ran out of ideas. Yeah, that happened a lot. Just simple, stress-free recipes and meals that

help me save more. Waste less. And for the first time in a long time, I actually look forward to dinner. Get your fresh start right now and get 50% off your first box plus free sides for life with HelloFresh. That's right, free sides for life. Go to Hellofresh.cate and use code Mom 50. That's Hellofresh.cate code Mom 50. And the winner of the IHart Podcast Award is you can decide who takes home the 2026 IHard Podcast Awards Podcasts of the year by voting at IHardpodcastawards.com now through February 22nd. See all the nominees and place your vote at IHard Podcast Awards.

Podcast Awards.com. Audible is a proud sponsor of the Audible Audio Pioneer Award. Explore the best selection of audiobooks, podcasts, and originals all in one easy app. Audible. There's more to imagine when you listen. Sign up for a free trial at audible.com. Hi, Kyle. Could you draw up a quick document with the basic business plan?

Just one page as a Google Doc. And send me the link. Thanks. Hey, just finished drawing up that quick one page business plan for you. Here's the link. But there was no link. there was no business plan. It's not his fault.

I hadn't programmed Kyle to be able to do that yet. My name is Evan Ratliff. I decided to create Kyle, my AI co-founder, after hearing a lot of stuff like this from OpenAI CEO Sam Aldman. There's this betting pool for the first year that there's a one-person, a billion-dollar company, which would have been like unimaginable without AI

and now will happen. I got to thinking, could I be that one person? I'd made AI agents before for my award-winning podcast, Shell Game. This season on Shell Game, I'm trying to build a real company with a real product run by fake people. Oh, hey, Evan. Good to have you join us. I found some really interesting data on adoption rates for AI agents and small to medium businesses. Listen to Shell Game on the IHeart Radio app or wherever you get your podcasts. You know, Roaldol, the writer who thought up Willie Wonka, Matilda, and the BFG.

But did you know he was also a spy? Was this before he wrote his stories? I must have been. Our new podcast series, The Secret World of Roll Doll, is a wild journey through the hidden chapters of his extraordinary, controversial life.

His job was literally to seduce the wives of powerful Americans. What? And he was really good at it. You probably won't believe it either. Okay, I don't think that's true. I'm telling you, the guy was a spy.

Did you know Dahl got cozy with the Roosevelt's? Played poker with Harry Truman and had a long affair with a congresswoman. And then he took his talents to Hollywood, where he worked alongside Walt Disney and Alfred Hitchcock before writing a hit James Bond film. How did this secret agent wind up as the most successful children's author ever? And what darkness from his covert past seeped into the stories we read as kids.

The true story is stranger than anything he ever wrote. Listen to the secret world of Roll Dahl starting January 19th on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. What if mind control is real? If you could control the behavior of anybody around you, what kind of life would you have? Can you hypnotically persuade someone to buy a podcast? a car? When you look at your car, you're going to become overwhelmed with such good feelings. Can you hypnotize someone into sleeping with you? I gave her some suggestions to be sexually aroused.

Can you get someone to join your cult? NLP was used on me to access my subconscious. NLP, aka neurolinguistic programming, is a blend of hypnosis, linguistics, and psychology. Fans say it's like finally getting a user manual for your brain. It's about engineering consciousness. Mind games is the story of NLP. It's crazy cast of disciples and the fake doctor who invented it at a new age commune and sold it to guys in suits. He stood trial for murder and got acquitted. The biggest mind game of all, NLP, might actually work. This is wild.

Listen to Mind Games on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts, starting January 20th. Bob Musikowski, welcome to Memphis. Good morning. You know, I don't know if you played football, but if you did, that would have to have been a middle linebacker or a fullback with that name. Musikowski. I can hear people going, Moos, Bozeg. What kind of name is that, Musikowski?

It's Polish and I was tight end and outside linebacker. See? In high school, when you got to play a mall, right? You got to play both ways. Well, you're only playing half the game. That's right. But there's been a lot of good Polish by Bronco Nogerski was the Bulls fullback. And he was a great player, ran hard.

And in those days, the goalposts were in the front. So it's fourth and eight. They give it to Bronco, breaks three tackles and slams into the goalpost, right, and spins in the end zone. He staggers back to the huddle and everybody says, are you okay, Bronco? And he goes, that last guy hit me really hard. Well, there you happen. It's got to be a Polish joke in there. So Bob, we could literally sit here for much longer than we have.

Hours and hours and hours. Your story is phenomenal and to unpack it all. And I'm excited to get into it. But first, just I think it's cool. Just kind of tell me where and how you grew up. So I grew up in Bayonne, New Jersey, which is actually the closest point to the Statue of Liberty in New York. York. The statue is actually closer to the Jersey side. So I actually watched out my bedroom window as the two towers went up, the twin towers went up. And then on September 11th, we watched them.

We all watched them come down. You're kidding. So Bayonne, Blue Collar Town, a lot of veterans, Exxon, a lot of dock workers. My father worked at Westinghouse factory in Jersey City for 31 years, died when I was 19. They beat the Germans so that they couldn't beat the cigarettes and the booze, you know. So anyway, my neighbor. this is Bayonne. Chuck Wepner was the New Jersey State champ. I think Chuck was like 26 and 10.

Boxing? Yes. And between Ali flights, Frazier fights, Ali wanted a tune-up. So he fights the Bayon bomber Chuck Weppner, who knocked Muhammad Ali down in the eighth round, went the distance, got about

60 stitches, but went the distance. And Sylvester Stallone, so the Weppner-Ali fight, and wrote Rocky in three days. You're kidding me. The Bayon bomber, Chuck Weppner, Stallone saw that fight in Cleveland and wrote Rocky. He was the inspiration behind Rocky. He was a liquor salesman and was a good boxer, but didn't get paid enough then.

And he was your neighbor? And there were five guys on my block that could beat up Chuck. Are you kidding? So it was that kind of neighborhood. No kidding. That was a classic bail. So, yeah, Google the Bayon bomber. were Chuck Weppner and Rocky.

So, and Stallone made a fortune. And, but, and you know, to be fair, the rocky stuff was great. It made hundreds of people go work out and get in spot, whatever. Who didn't go for a run? Not to the Rocky song. You're going to fly now and the whole thing. But that is so, you know this guy. Yeah, so Weppner, I saw that a Yankee game maybe five years ago when I was in New York.

He's still around? Yeah. Chuck's would got to be mid-70s, maybe, late 70s. So he would say, he said, he was on Johnny Carson. two days after the fight all banged up and Johnny Carson says, Chuck looks pretty rough. He goes, I get it worse.

A night out with the boys, I would have kicked his ass in a phone booth. So that was bad. That's where I grew. And I went to all boys Catholic school, Marist. I had a scholarship there, played football bass,

was captain of all the teams. And I had a great experience growing up in a Catholic system. 99% of the priest didn't abuse anybody. It's not everybody. It's great people. And the priest than the nuns that taught me.

They taught for 40 years for, they didn't get paid, right? So now in Chicago, 150 Catholic schools have closed in the last 50 years, and the gangs filled the void of the parish. Wow. The parish was a good thing. That says a lot. Yeah, and everybody, you know, it worked, the Catholic school system when the urban poor were white, the Germans, the Italians, the Pol, they saved millions of us, and it worked,

and everybody went golfing in the suburbs. They forgot where they're from. Oh, say that again. That's really interesting, what you just said. So the Catholic school system, dagger John Hughes in New York City was, he's buried at St. Patrick's and not many people are. And he called them dagger because he signed a big cross. It looked like a dagger. This is a priest, an Irish priest.

And he went to the mayor of New York City and said, why won't you let the Irish Catholic kids in your Protestant schools? And the mayor said, because you're a disease-ridden, filthy, violent animals. So John Hughes says, well, give me some money and I'll educate the Catholic kids. And the mayor had his security. throw John Hughes down the stairs of City Hall in New York City, and then John Hughes that afternoon started the Catholic school system in New York, St. John's, Fordham, all these wonderful schools, and all privately funded. Not a government nickel, but the teachers taught for free.

Now there's not many nuns and brothers and Jesuit priest around, right? And so the math of it didn't work, right? But it isn't fair, because at this point, I ask all the time, should, faith-based Christian and Catholic schools be only for rich kids. I'll ask you that. Obviously not, but they are. Should they be racially segregated? No.

But they are. If you look at a picture. Except for the guy who runs a four or five and conduct. That's true. Everybody's got a couple. They got Jamal and Tyrone out there, man. So we started. I'll get into our school later on when we talk about that, but it's just not right.

And so the Catholic school system in America did a great job. Think about this. 1918, a constitutional amendment passed called Prohibition banning alcohol. Whether it worked or not doesn't matter. But that was because of the Irish in Boston, New York, Chicago, the family starving to death and the guy's drunkenly on the street with spending his whole paycheck. And that changed. The Catholic school system changed everything.

I don't know how strong it was down here in Memphis, but I'm sure there's some good Catholic schools here. That's actually still pretty strong here. And so that's a right one. So I went with a thousand boys, had a great experience there. And then my father was dying of cancer. I had offers to play, Villanova, Rice, I visited. First time I ever heard people say y'all better. So I'm 45 minutes away from Columbia University in New York City.

So we were training in a bus. So I went and played at Columbia, trying to turn the program around. I was in a powerful four, five, and one team, which for Columbia is pretty good. And so, look, I go to a school and half the school looks like Woody Allen. So how are you going to be good in football, right? My classmates, listen to my graduating class. The school looks like Woody Allen. Here's my class.

Obama, graduate with, he transferred in as a sophomore from Occidental to Columbia to general studies. So he was, he came in as a sophomore. George Stephanopoulos from Good Morning America wrestled. These are all my graduating class. Obama, Stephanopoulos, McGreevy, who was a governor of New Jersey and left his wife for a guy, which at Columbia University is like a noble thing.

So this guy is on the Jersey Shore. He's governor of New Jersey and is making out with a guy on the lifeguard stand and it dumps over and breaks his leg. And that's how he kind of got out it. I wouldn't do that in high school, man, with my girlfriend. Like that's up.

True story. Couldn't make this up. And then Patterson replaced Elliot Spitzer. He was an African-American partially blind guy. Because I remember I ran the Columbia University pub. Drinking age was 18. Great job for a future alcoholic, like running a school park. And Patterson would be reading a book,

get a picture of Heineken in the corner of the bar. We had cheap trick and live bands. I mean, it was mommy's all right. Yeah, hold it. No, you don't have to tell me a cheap job. This is Columbia University's pub, 500 people, and he's reading a novel in the corner drinking a pitcher-hineken, and he became the governor.

You're a great guy. Because Elliot Spitzer got out of it, and he was next in him. So that was a classic Columbia, right? Blue-collar kid from New Jersey hanging out with people like all kinds of people. There's culture shot. Yeah, I didn't even know it was the Ivy League. I got recruited to play. You had no idea.

I didn't have to play. So. And then Columbia was five, my son just graduated, two of my boys just graduated. I got a lot of kids. I missed that bird control section of the vibe. Oh, it's not in there. Hey. If the good guys have a lot of kids, maybe we can change this thing.

I tell my kids and all of students and everybody I've coach, make more good people. We need some more good people. It's fun doing it. Do it with your best friend. So here I'm at Columbia. And I remember this. It's freshman orientation. We're sitting in a room, you know, 40 of us on our floor.

And you have to introduce yourself. And a guy before me is I'm Chauncey Phillips, the third. My father was captain, a squash team at Yale and Bubba. And I said, I'm Bob Muzzik. I'm from Bayonne. And that's in France. You're probably never heard of it. Because it is named after Bayon, France.

But, you know, you fake it until you make it. And if you got in, my teammates, football, you know, the dumb guys are smart of Columbia, right? So my teammate Paul McCle played football and running back and he's like the best cardio vascular surgeon in the world maybe, right? And so a lot of guys went on to do really well. So, and a lot of people quit football. I think that's one of the reasons. You start with 50 freshmen and I think 14 of us finished. A lot of the kids finish school, but it's pretty hard to go to school and put four hours into football.

It's hard to do at any school, much less Ivy League. Yeah, and a freshman year, I played baseball too. And they're not giving you breaks in the classroom if you're an athlete. I wouldn't say they hated us, but there was a little anti-executive. jock thing. Really? Yeah, we were, the jocks were the dumb guy. Steregaped us, right? So, fortunately, we had Barnard College across the street, Fashion Institute of Technology, a lot of other schools that would come visit us. So you'd graduate from Columbia. Yeah, and then I was admitted to a joint program business and law school, which is a prestigious thing at the time. And that summer,

I got a- That's not bad for a dumb job. Yeah. And I got a job working for Mayor Koch, right? That's that summer. And so I ended up taking my MBA, but I didn't finish law school and I went to work for the city under Mayor Koch, who was a phenomenal guy, right? I don't know if you remember him. Oh, yeah. So Koch looked like Frank Perdue, the chicken, yeah, right? Only 6-6-300 with Frank Purdue's face. Right? Remember that? Yeah. So, and he was, he just loved the city with a passion, single guy. I don't know what people would say. It was it, but I never saw. I'm pretty, good Gator and I didn't see that on him but he was just a riot. And he loved his city and he was handed from and at that point it was Fear City. Remember the movie Death Wish with Charles Bronson?

Well, yeah. 2000 murders. I was about saying at that time, New York had unraveled. Yeah, Columbia. We lost a kid or two every year, a student. Really? Yeah, crazy.

To crime. To shot or stabbed to death. Columbia's in Harlem. Right? Now it's a giant Starbucks. It's like the safest place in America. So you, I remember that these guys were playing football in the middle of the campus and this young African-American guys running by said, he hit me. So the kid threw him the ball. He caught it and just boom.

Kept going, right? He caught the ball and full stride was gone. That was just classic. We used to have to put locks on our cars, right? Because my battery got stolen monthly out of the car. And people were killed. So then came Giuliani. Well, hold it.

Let's go about what did you do for Mayor Cop? I was in labor relations. So we might have saved the city of New York, a bunch of guys at Columbia Business School, and Frank Havlicek and Professor Ray Horton started the thing called overtime equalization with the unions.

Because guys were bankrupting the city when you're 65, you work. You get like 60% of your last year's pay. And all of a sudden, the guy's getting all the overtime his last year making 200 grand. He's going to get one. He's a fireman, right? So we started overtime equalization where they have big son.

Now it's all computerized, but you had a big board and nobody could get 60 hours ahead of anybody else. So the old guy couldn't load up and it saved the city hundreds of millions of dollars and pension over. You know, it was a bunch of guys in a case of beer at Columbia Business School doing that. And so I was like a Columbia Wiz kid with an NBA. I'm 26 and I'm playing rugby at that point for Old Blue. Couldn't play football. They said, why didn't you play pro football? Because the other guys were better than me.

They were bigger and faster. There was only one reason because I wasn't good enough. We played Rutgers in the Meadowlands, and they beat us like 47 to 7. And we were 3 and 1 at that time. And it was the first college game in the Meadowlands. And all of us, and they beat Tennessee the following week. Yeah. Rutgers was starting to get good, right?

And they shouldn't have been playing us. And everything was just happening a little bit faster. Everybody's just like, you know, if you were blocking down on a guy, he was gone. You couldn't get to him at Todd. They're like chop legs and stuff. But it was great, thought, you know, and so I was working there playing rugby for the old blue, really competitive rugby, we lost in a national championship a couple of times. Rugby is a great game.

It's one of the fastest growing sports in America. We have a thing called Memphis Intercity. Yeah, I know that they've been up and visited Chicago. Have they? Oh, yeah. Okay. Yeah. Yeah.

We went to, we played. saw them in Washington, D.C. last year. They played in a tournament. Yeah, but and they, it is not only a great game, but they are turning inner city kids. Yeah, we want to stay championship. It's, yeah, rugby's gotten professional now. There's a new league about five years old, and the hounds in Chicago practice at our place. So if you wonder why United States loses to New Zealand and South Africa, 50 to nothing in rugby, it's because they're getting paid and we're not. Now you're starting to pay our guys. We get good. It's just put the money on the table and we'll so so so and it's just a great game you know you don't dance when you score you

hand a ball to the ref act like you scored before so you're going to make up some day where the bear's guy is mocking the fans and he misses the last play and we lose the game I don't know or you blow your knee dancing yeah so that also happens yeah so it's just a really great and the home team is required to feed host and feed the visiting team every game and that is magical I had a friend that was from Liverpool in college. Actually, he was studying his doctorate. Believe it not, I played a little football and all that. And then actually, I hurt my shoulder.

I played soccer. And he used to say that rugby, he would say that soccer is a gentleman's game played by ruffians, and rugby is a ruffian's game played by gentlemen. Yeah, that's true. You rarely see a fight. Sometimes you see a fight.

but rarely. A fight and a rugby game really was a big changing thing in my life. And now a few messages from our generous sponsors. But first, I hope you'll follow us on your favorite social media channels where we share more powerful content, including reels from our video studio and testimonials from Army members. We're at Army of Normal folks on every channel. Give us a follow. We'll be right. back. Okay, new year, fresh start. And honestly, I'm starting with dinner. This year, I'm being smarter about where my energy goes, and dinner was taking way too much of it. I just signed up for HelloFresh, and they take fresh start to a whole new level. Fresh high-quality ingredients

delivered right to my door, locally sourced whenever possible. Everything pre-portioned, nothing wasted. Now, I'm not dragging myself through weekend grocery runs, or panic staring at the fridge at 530 trying to make something out of random leftovers. And I'm definitely not tossing out food I never used or falling back on expensive takeout apps because I ran out of ideas. Yeah, that happened a lot. Just simple, stress-free recipes and meals that help me save more, waste less. And for the first time in a long time, I actually look forward to dinner. Get your fresh start right now and get 50% off your first box plus free sides for life with HelloFresh. That's right, free sides for life.

Go to Hellofresh.cate and use code Mom 50. That's Hellofresh.cate. Code Mom 50. And the winner of the IHeart Podcast Award is You can decide who takes home the 26 IHeart Podcast Awards Podcast of the year by voting at IHeartPodcastawards.com now through February 22nd.

See all the nominees and place your vote at IHeart Podcast Awards.com. Audible is a proud sponsor of the Audible Audio Pioneer Award. Explore the best selection of audiobooks, podcasts, and originals all in one easy app. Audible. There's more to imagine when you listen. Sign up for a free trial at audible.com. Hi, Kyle.

Could you draw up a quick document with the basic business plan? Just one page as a Google Doc and send me the link. Thanks. Hey, just finished drawing up that quick one page business plan for you. Here's the link. But there was no link. There was no business plan. It's not his fault.

I hadn't programmed Kyle to be able to do that yet. My name is Evan Ratliff. I decided to create Kyle, my AI co-founder, after hearing a lot of stuff like this from OpenAI CEO Sam Aldman. There's this betting pool for the first year that there's a one-person, a billion-dollar company, which would have been like unimaginable without AI and now will happen. I got to thinking, could I be that one person? I'd made AI agents before for my award-winning podcast, Shell Game. This season on Shell Game, I'm trying to build a real company with a real product run by fake people.

Oh, hey, Evan. have you join us. I found some really interesting data on adoption rates for AI agents and small to medium businesses. Listen to Shell Game on the IHeart Radio app or wherever you get your podcast. You know Roll Doll, the writer who thought up Willie Wonka, Matilda, and the BFG. But did you know he was also a spy? Was this before he wrote his stories? It must have been. Our new podcast series, The Secret World of Roll Doll, is a wild journey through the hidden chapters of his extraordinary, controversial life. His job was literally to seduce the wives of powerful Americans.

What? And he was really good at it. You probably won't believe it either. Okay, I don't think that's true. I'm telling you. I was a spy. Did you know Dahl got cozy with the Roosevelt's? Played poker with Harry Truman and had a long affair with a congresswoman.

And then he took his talents to Hollywood, where he worked alongside Walt Disney and Alfred Hitchcock before writing a hit James Bond film. How did this secret agent wind up as the most successful children's author ever? And what darkness from his covert past seeped into the stories we read as kids. The true story is stranger than anything he ever wrote. Listen to the secret world of Roll Dahl starting January 19th on the IHeart Radio app,

Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. What if mind control is real? If you could control the behavior of anybody around you, what kind of life would you have? Can you hypnotically persuade someone to buy a car? When you look at your car, you're going to become overwhelmed with such good feelings. Can you hypnotize someone into sleep?

I gave her some suggestions to be sexually aroused. Can you get someone to join your cult? NLP was used on me to access my subconscious. NLP, aka neuro-linguistic programming, is a blend of hypnosis, linguistics, and psychology. Fans say it's like finally getting a user manual for your brain. It's about engineering consciousness. Mind games is the story of NLP.

It's crazy cast of disciples, and the fake doctor who invented it at a new age commune and sold it to guys in suits. He stood trial for murder and got acquitted. The biggest mind game of all, NLP, might actually work. This is wild. Listen to mind games on the IHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts, starting January 20th. So I'm playing rugby. To me, I never smoked pot, never smoked a cigarette. My father died from lung cancer three packs a day. Chestafield King. It was 30 cents. And he'd always give me 50.

So I knew I had 20 cents for candy. It's a great incentive. Bringing home cigarettes. So I, but I was in when I was in business school, when I was in, I was a senior in college, I'm running the pub. So it's Thursday, Friday, Saturday night until 3 in the morning. And a guy comes up to me and says, you look tired, man, try this. Art Hongsuckle. He's sober now, so he wouldn't mind me saying his name.

He was a prince from Taiwan and he had cocaine. I never knew. I never took hardcore drove. So I tried it. and I went home and studied, right? And this is from 4 to 6 a.m. And the next night he was by, I tried it again. And the third night, he said, hey, is it cheaper if we get a lot of that?

So I had to run with that. Can we bathees and bulk? Yeah, and I didn't, you know, I picked what, you know, just suck it up. How could someone be an alcoholic or an addict? Do we start doing that? I mean, it's hard to stop it. So I wouldn't do it for a month. But when I was a streaky guy like that, but I would go out on Thursday night and you'd see me on Sunday.

So, and we had all this creative stuff, we had a sippy cup, like an aunt, you know, he'd give to your kids or your grandkids so they don't spill their drink. So we'd crush an ounce of cocaine in that, which is that's prison time, right? And I'd have it in my car with the sippy cup. So if I ever get pulled over, the cops are never going to think there's cocaine in the sippy cup. You're kidding me. And I'm going to work for the mayor banging up. Are you serious? Yeah, because the drug is a stimulant.

So it's not like a pot guy or a drunk who's staggering around. you're actually on top of it, right? Yeah, but it's kind of expensive. Yeah, and that was my bailing. They want to act like a big shot, you know, because now I'm working, making money with the city. I'm running a club three nights of making money and acting like a big deal, all that.

That was my, and when I made a searching and fearless moral inventory, which is the fourth step of NAANA, NAA, it was all about that, trying to act like a big shot, right? So, hold it, can I just make sure I heard what I just heard? You've got cocaine. in a child's sippy cup working for the mayor and running a club doing life in New York in your late 20s and playing rugby. Yeah, playing hard rugby, yeah.

That sounds pretty normal. Yeah, so the great thing about rugby, there's usually three or four sides. So if you're not on the A team, somebody has a B team, the other team and your second string and third string. So I played the game, was better at that than football. might mean concussions and people say oh you don't get concussions in rugby because you hit with your shoulder that's that's assuming the guy doesn't move my job is to go get a concussion and when you got one they put you next to the keg right that was that was that was that was that was a concussion

protocol give him some beer what was the what was the saying he got his bell wrong he got it right there it is so so i'm not condoning this behavior so i'm on the sideline finish my game got the sippy cup and a guy gets thrown... Hold on it. You're hanging out with a concussion by the keg and you got your sippy cup. Well, because you probably need to wake up at that. Because I had to run the club that night. Right.

So, this guy is thrown out of the B-side game for fighting, right? And somebody says to me, that guy's a priest. So I go over with my sippy cup. It's B.J. Weber, the Shepherd of Times Square, Evangelical Pastor in Times Square, New York City. And he played rugby. He just moved from

Iowa where he played rugby and it came to Christ there picked up by a trappistine monk. So I off from Pacific Cup. He turns me down and it gives me a business card, B.J. Weber, Lamb's Church 130 West 44th Street and dares me to come to his church. And the next morning with a brutal hangover, I go to this church, right? And people are calling for a fair catch when they're singing and they're calling for a fair catch. I mean, they were singing. They knew the words and they were into it. And they where homeless people, middle class people, everybody was there. Hold it. They were calling for a fair catch where they're singing.

At other words, waving their hands. That's hilarious. No, but at this point, I've never been in a non-Catholic church. So. Oh, yeah. Yeah, you're used to. Yeah. Kneel down, stand up, man.

Yeah. And I'm not saying that was bad. So, so, and after it, everybody eats. They put at tables and chicken and all these people. And I'm like, there's a guy who smells really bad sitting next to a family with their three kids. And this is how church. Now I know this is how church is supposed to be. Right.

So don't tell the rich man come and have a good seat and tell the poor man sit over there somewhere in Matthew. So I started to go to this church and work on one night a week. And I'm still doing my Jekyll and Hyde thing, right? But I'm going to the church. And I get invited to the presidential prayer breakfast by B.J. Weber and those guys in Washington, DC. Oh, why? Because they're the lambs, they're like this cutting edge New York City Church. And I've been working on Wednesday night with the youth group. You know who I was working with? Mike Deerrano and Denny Rule. Denny Rule had a little kid then, a little five-year-old Matt. So Matt Rule,

head coach in Nebraska, who is running around at the Lambs Church on 44th Street when he was a little boy. So he was born in, New York City. No kidding. And he turned around Temple. He turned around Baylor. And he, and he turned around Baller. And then he did a year in the pros, which you can't turn stuff around because he'll tell you what to do. Right. It's all about money. And now he's in Nebraska. And he still goes and has dinner at people's houses when he's recruiting kids.

It was just a wonderful. But his dad was a key guy who I'm still in touch with at the Lamb's Church, assistant pastor. So I got when I get down to D.C., and I didn't realize this prayer breakfast is a big thing at that Hilton. And they have that Mother Teresa speak. It's a massive thing. It's a bowler now. They've toned it down because of the Bible. Biden and them didn't want to go to it.

Because they might ask hard questions, right? Catholics for abortion. Anyway, so don't get me started. He doesn't have a filter if you don't. No, we want no filters. Greatest thing ever. So I say, give me my ticket. I'll meet you guys there.

So I go out. Somehow I went to dinner with an old girlfriend and her husband, which is so stupid, right? That's weird. Yeah. And I end up in College Park, Maryland. at a big bar with big bouncers. And I'm wondering, why do they have all these bouncer?

Now I'm just... Are you here to go to the prayer breakfast? The prayer breakfast is the next morning. But you're... Okay. I'm just following along. Like, I'm not an alcoholic. I just go drinking in a bar where I don't know anybody in a city where I don't know anybody.

Right. Of course not. It doesn't everybody do that. Where's your sippy go? I didn't have it. Okay. This is important. So a fight breaks out and all of a sudden the bar gets packed.

It's college park. Maryland, North Carolina basketball game across the street. Why do they have these big bounces? Because the bar is going to get packed. So somebody's, this kid stole a, long-haired tattooed up, kid stole a purse, and the bouncers grabbed them. And they were holding them on the ground. I saw this one bouncer kicked the kid in the face once.

And the second time, I just, it wasn't even my fight. He was going for the kid's face, and I just nailed him, right? Wow, you felt sorry for the long-haired hip again? Yeah. And I had, I'm Spider-Man after 10 drinks. And to save everybody, right? So I nailed him, and the other guy Bounce a Breaks a Heineken bottle

Goes from my face and I catch it. He puts it right through my hand. So I got the bottle stuck in my hand, like the broken bottle. Through your hand? Yeah. And I hammered his face with a bad, you know the heavy beer mug? That's got some serious. Way too serious.

And I hit him, perfect. So his face is on the other side of the room. The other guy, I got a hinderer. I'm handcuffed. Assault would intend to Maine. malicious destruction of property and battery. Did you not explain to everybody, you were just taking up for the kid?

Yeah, I did. But they didn't want to. And court later on, they were fights in that bar every night. And those bouncers were always in some stuff. Like, they were looking for, you're supposed to be a protector, not the aggressor.

Right. You're the bouncer. So anyway, I'm locked up. And two days later, I get a phone call, buddy in New York, calls BJ. They come and bail me. A hundred thousand dollar bail I had.

And this is, this is 80s. So that'd be a lot of money now. That's a lot of money then. Yeah, but when you see a guy right after a fight and he's got slant, it looks a lot worse than it is. In a couple of days, it's not so bad. But right after the fight, you got him. So, um, he's like Chuck Webner, right?

Give it a week to cool down. So BJ bails me out with Brad Curl, who played at Oklahoma, spoke French and was a beautiful artist in a, he had an art gallery in Washington, D.C. So much for all Christian guys being boring, right? It plays for Oklahoma. speaks a lot of different languages as an artist, right? And Pat Rewa and a Catholic guy,

they come up with the $10,000. Because when you bail someone, which I've done many times, you need to pay 10% cash. Right. Which is a big topic right now because a lot of people don't have the cash. So basically the poor black kids can't get out. And if you have money, you can't get out, right? So that's a whole other argument.

Usually when you're in there, though, you're not in there because you didn't do anything. So they bail me out, and I pray to receive Christ outside of Prince, Georgia's County Jail, which is a rough jail. Hold it. B.J. and these two other guys, Christian guys, bail me out of jail. And they pray with me. Brad Curl says to me, when I get out of jail, he hugs me. Big guy, Bearer.

He reminds me of Paul. And I said, Paul, who? Remember when Paul got knocked over? Right. So, but, you know, if they were praying to Bogwan, you bail me out of jail, I'm probably going to go your way that day, right? So, but I prayed with them. And then we drove back to New York, and I get back in my apartment.

and my drinking party buddy, David Ello, calls me up and says, hey, let's go meet tonight. And I got, I got a court case coming for some bouncers, assault charges in a bar. I'm quitting drinking and all. He goes, no, no, meet me tonight. So I meet him at 79th Street and Lexington Avenue in New York City. I know it.

I know it. 79 of Lex. I know that. Yeah. It's a meeting. I don't know if there's still meetings. But today, Amy. So I pray to receive Christ in the morning in Washington.

And that night, by mistake, end up in an AA meeting with my old drinking buddy. He was still sober today and I keep in good touch with. So I got sober and saved the same day. How old are you at this time? 65. No. At this time. Oh, when I did that, 28.

Okay. Yeah, 28, 29. Yeah. So, anyway, did the questions get harder as we go along? No, there's your more fun. So. How old are you? Even I remember that.

We'll be right back. Okay, new year, fresh start. And honestly, I'm starting with dinner. This year, I'm being smarter about where my energy goes, and dinner was taking way too much of it. I just signed up for Hello Fresh, and they take Fresh Start to a whole new level. Fresh high-quality ingredients delivered right to my door, locally sourced whenever possible. Everything pre-portioned, nothing wasted. Now, I'm not dragging myself through weekend grocery runs or panic staring at the fridge at 530 trying to make something out of random leftovers. And I'm definitely not tossing out food I never used

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Podcast of the year by voting at IHeartPodcastawards.com now through February 22nd. See all the nominees and place your vote at IHeart Podcast Awards.com. Audible is a proud sponsor of the Audible Audio Pioneer Award. Explore the best selection of audiobooks, podcasts, and originals all in one easy app. Audible. There's more to imagine when you listen. Sign up for a free trial at audible.com. Hi, Kyle. Could you draw up a quick document with the basic business plan? Just one page as a Google Doc and send me the link. Thanks. Hey, just finished drawing up that quick one page business plan for you. Here's the link. But there was no link. There was no business plan. It's not his fault. I hadn't programmed Kyle to be able to do that yet.

My name is Evan Ratliff. I decided to create Kyle, my AI co-founder. After hearing a lot of stuff like this, from OpenAI CEO Sam Aldman. There's this betting pool for the first year that there's a one-person, a billion-dollar company, which would have been like unimaginable without AI and now will happen. I got to thinking, could I be that one person? I'd made AI agents before for my award-winning podcast, Shell Game. This season on Shell Game, I'm trying to build a real company with a real product run by fake people.

Oh, hey, Evan. Good to have you join us. I found some really interesting data on adoption rates for AI agents and small to medium businesses. Listen to Shell Game on the IHeart Radio app or wherever you get your podcasts. What if mind control is real? If you could control the behavior of anybody around you, what kind of wife would you have? Can you hypnotically persuade someone to buy a car?

When you look at your car, you're going to become overwhelmed with such good feelings. Can you hypnotize someone into sleeping with you? I gave her some suggestions to be sexually aroused. Can you get someone to join your cult? NLP was used on me. to access my subconscious. NLP, aka neurolinguistic programming, is a blend of hypnosis, linguistics, and psychology.

Fans say it's like finally getting a user manual for your brain. It's about engineering consciousness. Mind games is the story of NLP. It's crazy cast of disciples and the fake doctor who invented it at a new age commune and sold it to guys in suits. He stood trial for murder and got acquitted. The biggest mind game of all?

NLP might actually work. This is wild. Listen to Mind Games on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts, starting January 20th. You know Roll Doll, the writer who thought up Willie Wonka, Matilda, and the BFG. But did you know he was also a spy? Was this before he wrote his stories? It must have been. Our new podcast series, The Secret World of Roll Doll, is a wild journey through the hidden chapters of his extraordinary, controversial life.

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Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. So. So I'm 28. Yeah, but. And I had a five, six year row. Given everything you've told us so far. Yeah. Yeah, I packed a lot in there.

Yeah, well, I mean, I guess. But think about that. Was it sitting in jail that woke you up? Yeah, it sucks me in there. You got one phone call. You're riding around with sippy cups of cocaine in it. You know, the doctor didn't even give me anything. They pulled the thing out and the jail doctor soaked me.

It was great, right? That came out really nice. Can you imagine if that was on your face? You'd have to make up a really good story. You know, I think that, I don't think you have to make anything. Yeah, it's pretty good story. But what I'm saying is what happened between the day, you missed the prayer breakfast for a bar fight.

Yeah. And two days later. Well, I'm sitting in jail and the guys bailed me out with a big number, right? So I'm, remember Butch Cassidy and the Sundance kid? Sure. They're being chased. And they kept saying, who are those guys? That kid couldn't, they couldn't lose them.

Right. And the BJ and the Christian guys were like that. Who are these guys? Yeah. The real Christian guy. In the book of James 122, it says, do not merely listen to the word. And so deceive yourselves, do what it says. And with a lot of fun, at the Lamb's Church,

of New York City. So before this, I'm doing, it was the beginning of AIDS. So the lambs had two rooms with bunk beds of 24, so 48 guys in their dying of AIDS. And in those days, you died in six months. It looked like Auschwitz, right? Guys are really, in those days, you got age. You died in six months, man. There was no cocktail. And they're mostly active homosexual guys and drug abusers. And BJ and Denny ruling all these. We're doing these guys diapers. We don't know know what I don't have any gloves on. I'm just changing these poor guys are dying, right? and his blood was a mess. And actually, you know,

the liberal people were watering their plants in Greenwich Village went a down and dirty work of serving these people dying of AIDS was the Catholic nuns at St. Vincent's, people at the Lamb's Church, the Christian churches really served like nobody's business, asking no questions, how did you get AIDS? The bottom line is this guy's dying, and I'm called by my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ to help these people.

And the Lambs was quietly doing that. And so they were just, so my first witnesses of cry, a real down and dirty Jesus people were pretty fired up people, right? And so I had really good examples on that. And now they're bailing me out of jail. Who are these guys? They're the followers of crime. And they did it laughing and joking, like BJ.

He could drop some serious F-Bommy. He was not a big, tough guy playing rugby, right? So then he rules played small college quarterback. These are Mike Toronto. was a hockey, I mean, these were not wimpy little guys. They're dudes. Not that wonderful, does not wonderful soft Christian people, right? There are, but these, not my guys.

So, and that might not have done it for me. So I, then I got serious about the church. Father William Wilson comes and speaks at the church, and he's just started a ministry in Bolivia, South America. So instead of going, now I'm sober two months, and instead of going to club med to chase girls with my, I go to Bolivia to help this priest for two-week vacation. and my friends are going, Bolivia, isn't that where the cocaine is from?

You don't, as we say, I'm the west side of Chicago. You don't lost your mind. So now I'm in Bolivia. Actually, with Mick Luckhurst, who kicked for the Falcons. He was there with NFL charities, and that's where I meet Mick Luckers. I meet him in Aramacy, Bolivia. He's there for two weeks for NFL charities, and I'm there to help out this priest I met in New York. And this sick, sick baby.

Mick and I and a father drive him three hours down the mountain to Coach Obama, which is a modern city. And we go to the hospital with a sick baby, and they won't let us in because the babies catch you up. And we're like the other. Now, I'm sober two months now, right? And I'm thinking Christianity is going to be this boring. Well, I'm not going to have fun anymore.

So we go to this doctor who treats Indians, and I could see by the look in his face. I remember it like yesterday. This was a serious situation. And the baby dies in my arms in the living room. a little Ketua Indian boy. And I got, Are you serious?

I got Luckhurst, me, and the father have to drive up the mountain for three hours with the dead baby. So I ended up staying there for about 14 months. I called off work, said, I'm going to take some time off. And I really got rooted into scripture down there. I was back and forth a bunch of times with Sister Columba, sister Lordus. When people start, a lot of the evangelicals say the Catholics are, we're trying to work their way into heaven or,

No, their works are like filthy rags, but they're created in Christ Jesus to do good works, right? And the most intense Jesus people often I've seen are Catholic, right? Even in the inner city Chicago, like this guy. You want to get some work done? Give me hungover Catholic guys. We've got some good guilt working. And the evangelicals are praying for me on the 14th hole of the country club. We got some good guilt working.

That was me. And we let a lot of Catholics to Christ. through the Little League and all that because they don't Catholics in Chicago, big Catholic town, Mayor Dale, big Irish Catholic ethnic Catholic and they don't care what we say. They watch what we do. Right. Let your light so shine before men so they will see your good works and glorify the fog. So here I am. I come. The mission is always broke. They got no money. I'm back in New York City. My guys I graduated with her, they got big houses in Greenwich, Connecticut. They're 30 years old. Yeah, but you spent you spent 14 months in Bolivia hanging out with a priest. You're,

Your whole network in New York has now moved on, I would assume. Well, no, I'm asking them for Doe, which is sort of like to help this mission. But the mission was always broke. So I went into the financial markets in New York City then because I'm like, well, my M.O. And that's what we're doing. We can make a lot of money and live low and give a lot of money away, right? You know, do not, Matthew 6, do not store up your treasures on earth where moth and roughs corrupt and thieves break in and steel. Store up your treasures in heaven.

But where your treasures are, there will your heart be also. So what does that? It says do not. Did you learn that in Bolivia? I got time to really read it that. Seriously. I'm not being smart at us. It wasn't a whole lot to do, right?

I mean, you know, except if I helped kids. First of all, your storytelling is so good. You need to have a podcast because you're hilarious. But you skip something. You drove up a mountain with a dead baby. Yeah. And you stayed 14 months. Yeah.

I think there's a whole lot. germane to your life story in from that drive to 14 months later and I got humble tell me about that I used to look and still you still once in a while you know when I go to my friends giant house in Naples you know Naples they call it the Chicago Riviera Naples Florida yeah and I got a little pangage like me on I could have done and then like in New York new York same thing some nice suburbs of Chicago and then uh about a day later well what are you going to do tomorrow there's nobody out here to help everything looks like it's fine right got great Window dressing.

So, but the mission was broke. So I come back to New York City and went into the business, investment business, and made some dough and met my wife there who was a foreign currency trader at BJ's house. His wife invited 10 girls and he invited 10 guys. And we didn't know that. Bruce Harper played for the New York Jets. He was there. So, what was a big setup thing?

Yeah, it was kind of like a college mixer. Yeah, on 30 seconds street of Manhattan. So people in their late 20s, early 30. So three of ten people got met and got married from that. No kidding. At BJ's house. So, and my wife became a Christian of Brentwood Academy in Nashville. In Nashville.

She was in one of the early classes. Chicago Hope Academy in New York City is modeled on Brentwood Academy in Nashville. Okay. Let's not skip to that. I mean, in Chicago. Yeah. So she became a Christian there. And so she won a Rotary scholarship and studied in Scotland for it.

She was a five-handicap, really good golfer. My wife was a good golfer. And so, you couldn't be more up. Like, we're just opposite. I'm a city guy. She's from Tennessee. We're just, her mom, God bless her. Still a lot.

It took her a while to like, she needed an interpreter with me. Hey, no one, I'm fixing to do that right quick. Right quick. You mean in the hurry? Right. So that was a lot. So I got, we got married in Brentwood. And at 1 p.m., the wedding was a night wedding.

Weep, oh, blue. Blue Rugby played the Tennessee All-Stars. So I played at one, get married at 7, a black guy. My best man broke his ribs. And my wife's great aunt was Minnie Pearl. Come on. Are you kidding me? The girls went to Minnie Pearl's house, who's the opposite of that character.

Minnie Pearl was one that always still had the price tag hanging out on E-R. So the girls, in my wedding album, the girls all have that, and we're all banged up playing rugged. So, and it was- Lovely photos, I'm sure. Oh, yeah. And so it was a lot of mine in New York. We were at the Brentwood, Marriott. And I, like, ran out of Coke and had a FedEx to the hotel for the wedding. Unbelievable. And I, you know, I have a lot of guys. And, you know, when bad stuff happens, that's when they call me, right? So even to this day, I get asked to speak. It's either you say, when are you going to be muz again instead of born again. Yeah. But when people get in trouble, they know what to call, right?

So, so, so that's kind of been our M.O, right? You could live great on X amount of dollars. Tithing is you're supposed to tithe your first dollar. I tell my kids, if you make $100, you're supposed to be. But once you start making some money, I mean, tithing, you make a, you make a million dollars, you keep $900. Like, what? What versus that?

So at one point, at one point, you become a 50% guy, right? Like that, what's the guy's name? Well, no, not right, actually. No, I think it's pretty thin air Someone that comes a 50% guy Yeah, that guy in... So no, not right. What's the guy's name in California?

The ministry wrote that great book. The 40 things you read every day. Stephen Covey, no. Rick Warren? Yeah, he's like that. So, you know, if you could walk with kings and not lose the common touch, if all men count with you, but none too much.

I like going to retreat and you stay at the risk call it the Naples. I like that, right? I have a big brownstone in the heart of what was a bad neighbor. It's changed a lot. But I got a fireplace. So, you know, I don't do that. I save for when I'm old. You know, it's part of my career is getting people to do that. So, but the third house and the fourth house, come on, guys, right? So Naples, Reckon Ridge, Chakot. Come on. So, because that's your father William Wilson, the priest in Bolivia, who lives in Birmingham now, he's still alive, right? Will's 83, 84, he's still super fit. And he said stuff, he said this to me.

What's the difference between the brand new $200,000 Porsche and a real nice Ford? Feeding the whole orphanage for a year. That's the difference in price, right? You could buy a quarter million dollar car. You could buy a nice $50,000 car. They both get you in the same place, and an extra 200 could feed the whole orphanage for a year. So, and, you know, he would say things like that, right? There's three things you can be.

You could be passionate about doing ministry, passionate about funding it, or disobedient. That's all you can be, right? And some of it overlaps, like you coach and you give, right? So, but, you know, if you have the gift of giving, mine are giving an exhortation. If you have that gift, it helps to have the gift of getting, right? I mean, all the things that we run, the football program,

We built an inner city high school from scratch. We run the biggest inner city baseball program in the country. We had a farm for drug addicts and stuff. It all takes money. I'm a capitalist to the core. You're supposed to make all you can employ. The best thing you do is you employ a bunch of what minister? You employ a ton of people.

We just, that's the best ministry you can do. We just released recently a podcast from Todd Comericki, who is the director of the movie Bonhofer. Yeah. pastor, spa, an assassin. It was a really great event. Eric Mataxis is a dear friend of him.

He wrote the book. He wrote the book. Yeah. He's a dear friend of yours. You have many interesting friends. Who did I meet him through, BJ? Of course. Why not?

Metaxis. But one of the things that Todd continued to hammer to the audience was money is not the root of all evil. It's the love of money. And, you know, that's an important distinction and I'm hearing the same thing from you it's it's not making money it's not doing well and it's not having a comfortable life for your family but the excesses are where it gets to be a problem yeah yeah you can do a lot with those accesses and that concludes part one of my conversation with bob musikowski and you don't want to miss

part two that's now available listen to. It just keeps getting better. Together, guys, we can change this country, but it will start with you. I'll see you in part two. I'm John Polk. For years, I was the poster boy of the conversion therapy movement, the ex-gay who married an ex-lesbian, and traveled the world telling my story of how I changed my sexuality from gay to straight. You might have heard my story, but you've never heard. heard the real story. John has never been anything that gay, but he really tried hard not to be. Listen to Atonement, the John Polk story on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And the winner of the IHeart Podcast Award is, you can decide who takes home the

26 IHard Podcast Awards podcast of the year by voting at IHeart Podcast Awards.com now through February 22nd. See all the nominees and place your vote at IHeartPodcastawards.com. Audible is a proud sponsor of the Audible Audio Pioneer Award. Explore the best selection of audiobooks, podcasts, and originals all in one easy app. Audible. There's more to imagine when you listen. Sign up for a free trial at Audible.com. Hi, Kyle. Could you draw up a quick document with the basic business plan? Just one page as a Google Doc and send me the link. Thanks.

Hey, just finished drawing up that quick one-page business plan for you. Here's the link. But there was no link. There was no business plan. I hadn't programmed Kyle to be able to do that yet. I'm Evan Ratliff here with a story of entrepreneurship in the AI age. Listen as I attempt to build a real startup run by fake people. Check out the second season of my podcast, Shell Game,

on the IHeart Radio app or wherever you get your podcasts. Back in 2016, we said, let's do a podcast. Little did we know it would last 10 years. I mean, but here's the thing. Stay out of the forest. You're in a cult. Call your dad. This is terrible.

You guys stay sexy. Don't get murdered. Elvis, do you want a cookie? A cookie? My favorite murder turns 10 this month. Join us for new episodes every Thursday on the Exactly Right Network. Listen to my favorite murder on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Goodbye.

What if mind control is real? If you could control the behavior of anybody around you, what kind of life would you have? Can you hypnotically persuade someone to buy a car? When you look at your car, you're going to become overwhelmed. with such good feelings. Can you hypnotize someone into sleeping with you? I gave her some suggestions to be sexually aroused. Can you get someone to join your cult?

NLP was used on me to access my subconscious. Mind Games, a new podcast exploring NLP, aka neurolinguistic programming. Is it a self-help miracle, a shady hypnosis scam, or both? Listen to Mind Games on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts, starting January 20th. This is an I-Heart podcast.

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