An Army of Normal Folks - Buddy Osborn: Hope In the Largest Open Air Drug Market (Pt 1)

Episode Date: December 24, 2024

Buddy was a Golden Gloves boxer who bit his opponent's ear, a union organizer who landed in prison, and ultimately the founder of The Rock Ministries. In the Philadelphia neighborhood of Kensington, The Rock started by serving inner-city boys with boxing and the Gospel, and it’s grown to serving over 11,000 kids through sports, arts, music, and mentoring. And all of this is taking place amidst some of the most dangerous blocks in America.   Support the show: https://www.normalfolks.us/premiumSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

I was sentenced to eight years. I did five years. I did five in defense. That's a hard time. You know what? I wouldn't trade one second of it because of where I am now. I wouldn't trade one second of it. Not one. Welcome to an army of normal folks. I'm Bill Courtney. I'm a normal guy. I'm a husband.

I'm a father. I'm an entrepreneur and I've been a football coach in inner city Memphis and that last part it's somehow led to an Oscar for the film about our team. It's called Undefeated. Guys, I believe our country's problems will never be solved by a bunch of fancy people in nice suits using big words that nobody ever uses on CNN and Fox, but rather by an army of normal folks. That's us. Just you and me deciding, hey, you know what, maybe I can help.

That's what Buddy Osborne, the voice you just heard, has done. Buddy is the founder of The Rock Ministries, which was birthed out of time in prison, his redemption story in Christ, and being a Golden Gloves boxing champion. And guys, he is hilarious. The Rock started by serving inner city boys with boxing and the gospel, and has grown

to serving over 11,000 kids through sports, arts, music, mentoring, Bible studies, and just about anything else you can imagine or that Buddy can come up with. And all of this is taking place amidst the largest open-air drug market in the world and some of the most dangerous blocks in the United States. I cannot wait for you to meet our new friend Buddy right after these brief messages from our generous sponsors. Hey everyone, it's Katie Couric. Well, the election is in the home stretch and I'm exhausted. But turns out the end is near, right in time for a new season of my podcast, Next Question.

This podcast is for people like me who need a little perspective and insight. I'm bringing in some FOKs, friends of Katie's, to help me out like Ezra Klein, Van Jones, Jen Psaki, Ested Herndon. But we're also gonna have some fun, even though these days fun and politics seems like an oxymoron. But we'll do that thanks to some of my friends like Samantha Bee, Roy Wood Jr., and Charlamagne the God. We're going to take some viewer questions as well. I mean, isn't that what democracy is all about?

Power to the podcast for the people. So whether you're obsessed with the news or just trying to figure out what's going on, this season of Next Question is for you. Check out our new season of Next Question with me, Katie Couric, on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, y'all. I'm Maria Fernanda Diaz. My podcast, When You're Invisible, is my love letter to the working class people and immigrants who shaped my life. I get to talk to a lot of people who form the backbone of our society, but who have never been interviewed before.

Season two is all about community, organizing, and being underestimated. All the greatest changes have happened when a couple of people said, this sucks, let's do something about it. I can't have more than $2,000 in my bank account or else I can't get disability benefits. They won't let you succeed. I know we get paid to serve you guys, but like, be respectful. We're made out of the same things,

bone, body, blood. It's rare to have black male teachers. Sometimes I am the lesson and I'm also the testament. Listen to When You're Invisible as part of the MyCultura podcast network. Available on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Arnold Schwarzenegger is many things, actor, bodybuilder, governor. But did you know that he was once a director?

And that the only film he has ever directed is a 1992 made-for-TV remake of the 1945 Christmas classic, Christmas in Connecticut. So these things don't happen. Nobody calls the biggest star in the world and says, hey, they want to direct your TV movie. On our Revisionist History Christmas special this year,

we are telling, for the very first time the absolutely wild, really very funny story behind the making of the most improbable Christmas movie of all time. The first thing out of his mouth is, so what have you guys been doing since Commando? Clearly not going to the gym. Along the way, we're going to meet Outlaw Country country singers, Cary Grant's ex-wife, the best-selling author of Tuesdays with Morrie, all of them leading in a very bizarre twist to billions of dollars in tax implications. You can hear it starting December 18th on the Revisionist

History podcast. Listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Buddy Osborne from Kensington, Pennsylvania. Welcome to Memphis. Blessed to be here, brother. Hey, where'd you fly to? Philly? Philly, yeah. Yeah, they got a direct flight.

No, I went to Atlanta. Yeah, did you for Delta then? Yeah, Delta, yeah. Yeah, they got a direct flight. No, I went to Atlanta. Yeah, I did. You went to Delta then. Yeah, Delta, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, welcome to Memphis. Thanks, man.

Buddy, you've got a really great story, and I cannot wait for our listeners to hear about what you're doing now, which is rock ministries, which you founded. But the path that got you there is pretty extraordinary. And when people hear Kensington, Pennsylvania, I don't think many know what we're talking about, although we're talking about right outside of Philly. But germane to your story, really, I don't even think you'd be where you are today if it wasn't for the way you grew up. Kind of start us off by telling us about Kensington, about how you grew up and where you came from.

Well, Kensington is a… Philadelphia is a… Am I saying it right? Yeah, Kensington. Yeah. But Philadelphia is a city of neighborhoods, Bill. And so you have Kensington, Port Richmond, Fishtown. So whenever you come in contact with somebody, you'll say where you're from. And once they tell you where, you'll know what type of guy, I believe. So nobody says I'm from Philly. They say I'm from Fishtown or I'm from Kensington. Yeah, well, you can say you're from Philly, but where at? Yeah. Yeah. So whenever somebody tells me where they're from, okay, you know, I'll know exactly what what caliber they are

So when you say do you say Kensington or do you get Kenzie or what do you say? I said well, well, there's a thing called the slang called Kenzo's like if you're Kenzo. Yeah, you're Kenzo. Yeah, that's funny But no from I'm from I was born and raised in Kensington. You know, that's... Well, if you say, I'm from Kensington, what does somebody from Philly hear when they hear that? Well, you know, when I was growing up, I didn't never want people to know I was from Kensington. You know? Really? Yeah, because it just was... For me, at that time, I had a full head of hair, black, it was dark, I was fit as a fiddle. You know out and about. I got to that age where

I wanted to meet the girls and this and that. South Philly was a lot of Italians. And so for some reason I equated with them. I would dress like them and all, you know. So a real good friend of mine, right, he would have a tattoo, Kensington, and I said, man, don't tell nobody we're friends. But now I'm so honored and so proud and so amazed that I came back. I left when I was 26, came back at 45 to start The Rock, which we'll get into. But yeah, Kensington is a, you know, it was the manufacturing community of the country at one time. I mean, with hats and sweaters and blankets. Lots of textiles. Textile mills, yeah. Yeah, textile, exactly. And every corner you had a factory, everyone worked, the employment was 100%.

It was amazing. I mean, you know, like I remember as a kid, just, you know, just, it was amazing, amazing. The 70s, you know, we were starting to fade and that's when really drugs really start to make its way into Kensington. A lot of the people that were working class, all jobs, everybody's working, the factories are shutting down one by one, and they were just, they just abandoned the factories.

And then ultimately, and time, as time went on, then poverty came in, and the family structure changed. Speaking of family structure changed. Speaking of family structure, how'd you go up? What'd your family structure look like? Yeah, I have 11 brothers and sisters. Holy smokes, you gotta be Catholic. Yeah, raised Catholic, I was raised Catholic. Yeah, but I had, like my dad, Irish, yeah, Irish German.

Irish German? Yeah, so I mean, my know, like my dad, Irish, yeah, Irish German, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, you know, so I mean, my mom, the truth of the matter is my father had, you know, a couple different women, you know, and so I got, you know, so he, but my mother raised nine of us and two of us, my dad, my dad kind of raised on his own, you know, two of my other, my brothers and sisters, yeah, so I, yeah, family of 11, but my mom, like I said, had, we had two sets of twins,

the oldest and the youngest were twins. So just really, you know, grew up in an Irish Catholic family, which is, you know, I guess you would say. And, uh. It could have been much money. No, no, my mother, well, my mother, she rented a house all the time. And then as I recall, I think it was like in 1971,

she purchased her first house for $11,000 in Kensington. Because she was from Kensington and my father was from Kensington, you know. And that was the first house she ever owned, you know. Wow. Yeah, so three bedroom, nine. With 11 or nine? Nine, yeah, nine, yeah.

Y'all are stacked in there like Kenland. Yeah, we were bunk beds, man. I was a bunk bed kid. Yeah, you had to be. You had to stack them in there. Yeah, so yeah, I mean, it was really... But I'll tell you, it was when I looked back when Mom did the best she could, you know what I mean, brother?

And... She had to be tough. Yeah. She was. You know, I'll tell you, interesting story with Mom. I mean, she, we moved her out of Kentuckton when she was 50. We moved her down to the shore, down New Jersey, and a single home, you know? Because Atlantic City was starting to come up, like big time, all the casinos. And so my mom was a leader. She was a

worker. She just had this way about her. Not college educated, but very bright, very smart. Back in the day, the 12th grade education was like more than the college education today that the folks back in World War two gays man. They were smart, right? I mean diligent so so mom we moved her down there and she was that she wanted work in a Trumps pla Trump Plaza and she was sweeping the floors and She would make more money in the bathroom because she would find the coin the coins You know and, and so, I remember one time she found like a $2,000 chip packing like in the late 70s or early, early, you know, for a working person. So I say this for this reason, my mom wound up working her way the ladder?" And she became the general manager and she

worked for Trump's wife. She would receive, when Trump would come in on the helicopter, my mother would be up there with, I think it's Ivanka, his first wife. Ivanka, right? Yeah. And she loved my mom. My mom loved her, you know. So she dealt behind the house, she ran the environmental, she had 250 employees. You're kidding. Oh no, no. And Trump gave her a couple awards, but she was a hard worker, man, just a good, good woman. She had her hands full with me though. I guess. So you grow up in this house of nine kids or this family with 11. And what was growing up in

Kensington like for you in those days? What did you do? What were you into? Yeah, man, you had some great questions. Well, look, when you don't have a dad, a father figure, when you don't have a dad, a father figure, it's tough. It can be hard because as a young boy, like in hindsight, I mean, I'm 65 now and I can look back and say, man, and it's how important a father is in the life of a child. And I think you know that too. Oh, I know it all too well. Yeah. So, I mean, I was a... I had gotten this rare form of, I don't know, osteo-omalitis of my right foot. What? That's a big word. You have to slow down from Memphis, dude. Slow down. Yeah. Osteo-omalitis, it was my...

What is it? Cancer? Yeah. Yeah. It was a form of bone, a bone cancer like and what happened when they were going to amputate my right leg from my knee down as a young boy. How old were you? I was only about seven. Oh gosh, dude. Seven, yeah, yeah. So I spent like, I spent almost two years in the hospital, believe it or not, back in

the day because... Why was they going to amputate? Well, because what happened, the pain was unbearable, it was so bad. Because when you get a problem with a bone, I mean, so I was itching, itching, itching. So long story short, I had five operations, and finally a guy from Japan, a doctor from Japan,

as I recall, he basically, you know, did some dead America, I mean, I don't know, he shelled it all out. So I have one foot at 10 and another at 8. Really? From the cast always being, always in isolation, you had to wear a mask and gown. But you know what's interesting, I remember being in the hospital and I'm looking through the window and I see this guy with a jacket on and has his name on the back, Joe Frazier, and I see him talking to a kid there. I didn't know who he was at the time, but he won the gold medal. Joe Frazier, everybody knows Joe Frazier, right?

So it was his nephew, which his brother has a brother, Tommy, it was his nephew. I didn't know that until later in life. Because I... Tommy Frazier also fall. Yeah, yep, yep, you're right. So anyway, so Marvish wanna become a real good friend of mine, you know?

So Joe, so his nephew went up coming into my room and me and him would fight each other. One day I get hit and I had a wheelchair and I want to close, my wheelchair closed up on me, you know? What were they doing? Visiting sick kids? No, they were visiting, he was visiting his nephew, Tommy's son. No kid. Yeah, yeah. He was also sick.

He had something going on too, I don't know what it was. But him and I went up in the same room and we had a big fight, you know, we were fighting. And I got, you know, so we used to hit the back of the, we used to hit the, you know, the bed rail, like, and say, oh, look at, watch this. Little did I know that I would become a boxer one day, you know, so.

Yeah, I mean, Kensington was a city of neighborhoods. It was solid. I am a lot of Irish Catholics at the time and neighbors looked out for one another. I read one time you said when you were growing up you became one of three things, a cop, a priest, or a convict. Yeah, that's true. Is that really kind of the mentality back then? Well you know, listen, again, it lends to the question about not having a father.

So what happens is when you're a young boy, you're going to latch on to something of a male figure and sometimes, most times, it could be the wrong male figure. And working with thousands of kids over the years, I'm a testimony to that, because I see it. In my own life, yeah, I latched on to, I got involved at a young age, with some interesting men, you know, interesting guys. Yeah, I remember reading that you said by 13,

you were a wannabe gangster. Wow. What does that look like in 19... That would have been 1970? Yeah, it was like, well, probably I was 1970. I was 10 years old. I was 11 years old. We all had, like, black cashmere jackets. We had...

An 11 year old! Yeah, we had lead. We would get lead and we would bang it down flat. Then we would put black tape. We would put that in our pocket. It was a lead stick. We thought we were the a bomb like it was up what's up man I mean we really thought we were real for real yeah yeah so so we we were a member of the bridge gang we start this gang called the bridge gang and yeah it was it was pretty intense. And now a few messages from our generous sponsors. But first, I hope you'll consider signing up to join the army at normalfolks.us.

By signing up, you'll receive a weekly email with short episode summaries in case you happen to miss an episode or if you prefer reading about our incredible guests. We'll be right back. Hey everyone, it's Katie Couric. Well, the election is in the home stretch and I'm exhausted. But turns out the end is near, right in time for a new season of my podcast, Next Question. This podcast is for people like me who need a little perspective and insight. I'm bringing in some FOKs, friends of Katie's, to help me out like Ezra Klein, Van Jones, Jen Psaki, Ested Herndon. But we're also going to have some fun, even though these

days fun and politics seems like an oxymoron. But we'll do that thanks to some of my friends like Samantha Bee, Roy Wood Jr., and Charlamagne the God. We're going to take some viewer questions as well. I mean, isn't that what democracy is all about? Power to the podcast for the people. So whether you're obsessed with the news or just trying to figure out what's going on, this season of Next Question is for you. Check out our new season of Next Question with me, Katie Couric, on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, y'all. I'm Maria Fernanda Diaz.

My podcast, When You're Invisible, is my love letter to the working-class people and immigrants who shaped my life. I get to talk to a lot of people who form the backbone of our society, but who have never been interviewed before. Season two is all about community, organizing, and being underestimated.

All the greatest changes have happened when a couple of people said, this sucks, let's do something about it. I can't have more than $2,000 in my bank account, or else I can't get disability benefits. They won't let you succeed. I know we get paid to serve you guys, but like, be respectful. We're made out

of the same things, bone, body, blood. It's rare to have black male teachers. Sometimes I am the lesson and I'm also the testament. Listen to When You're Invisible as part of the MyCultura podcast network. Available on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Arnold Schwarzenegger is many things. Actor, bodybuilder, governor. But did you know that he was once a director? And that the only film he has ever directed is a 1992 made-for-TV remake of the 1945 Christmas classic, Christmas in Connecticut. So these things don't happen. Nobody calls the biggest star in the world and says, hey, they want to direct your TV movie.

On our Revisionist History Christmas special this year, we are telling for the very first time the absolutely wild, really very funny story behind the making of the most improbable Christmas movie of all time. The first thing out of his mouth is, so what have you guys been doing since Commando? Clearly not going to the gym. Along the way, we're gonna meet outlaw country singers, Cary Grant's ex-wife,

the bestselling author of Tuesdays with Maury, all of them leading in a very bizarre twist to billions of dollars in tax implications. You can hear it starting December 18th on the Revisionist History Podcast. Listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. So yeah, you know, we got involved in sniffing glue, tie wall. I was big back in the day. We went through a phase of that. And then I remember heroin actually coming in, you know, and I remember it around 73,

74. I believe it was before that, but I remember a guy standing on a corner. I know his name and he's wrapping his arm to look in, and then he drills a needle in his arm. And there was five kids that were watching this, and all of them became addicts. You know, I live by this motto, more is caught than taught, you know, and my brother was one of them. Really? Yeah, my brother was one of them, and? Yeah, my brother was one of them and three of them died from complications of drugs and

my brother was one of them. So do you think this reality of the way you grew up was a combination of no father, tough neighborhood and then all the jobs leaving as a result of the textile industry falling apart? I mean, was that kind of the perfect storm? Am I hearing that right? Well, you know what? You probably, you are right. I mean, I never really thought of it that way. I just think I was a young kid who was wayward and became wayward. In fact, I was a 10 years old, my mom took me to a psychiatrist.

And I'll never forget as long as I live, I go to the psychiatrist, I was diagnosed as being a nonconformist at a young age. My mom, she had a rough time with me. That's a diagnosis? Yeah, that was a diagnosis. Yeah. So when you hear this is Danish doctor Zerov, right? So I go into this thing, right?

I walk in the door and I don't see anybody That the receptionist let me and I sat there and then then she's okay You can go when I walk in this door McQuinn All of a sudden the guys behind the desk he pops up out of the desk Boom and he hits me with it with it with it with a rip with a rubber band bang I was I grabbed we had a rubber band, bang! I said, but I was, I grabbed, we had a rubber band fight. It was amazing. So he wound up becoming the psychiatrist to the stars in Vegas, believe it or not. You're kidding.

No, no, no, funny story. But yeah, so at 10, but at 13, that's when I got involved in boxing. My father actually took me to the place, you know. Was it, we gotta get this kid an outlet, let's take him to the gym? Yes, I went to the gym at 13. Can we go back to a second? So you had this cancer, obviously they didn't amputate your leg

because I'm looking at it. Because the Japanese guy did something. Yeah, he did something. I'm sure that's a whole story too. So do you think that also led to part of where you were headed being cooped up in a hospital for two years? Well, here's the thing. What happened was I wanted to play sports, but I was always insecure.

I mean, I wanted to play football and man, I got my chance. I was on the 120-pounders, right? So I went with three of my friends. We went, and we'd go in and get everything on. I remember I felt so like, man, I got that on. I got my uniform, my cleats. Well, guess what? I put my hip pads on as my shoulder pads and everybody busted on me.

I was like, yeah. So another time we were playing under the lights and we were playing the leprechauns in Jersey. And we're poor kids from Kensington. We're just crazy, you know? So we get in there and Mooney was our coach and he, you know, he said, I was born, get in there, linebacker. So I'm in the middle of linebacker. I'm in there.

I said to the piercer, whatever, whatever. You know, cause it wasn't, it didn't come to me, Bill. You know, it didn't come to me. Like, I'm like, so I'm here. So I'm watching, hey, hey. And these guys were like under the lights. They had the cleanest uniform. They were amazing.

Man, I go, I grab that guy, bam, I dump him and I'm getting down the whistle blew. I didn't care, I'm like, get him down. It was a fake, he didn't have the ball. So it just goes on and on and on. I tried soccer and baseball. I hit a home run, ran all the bases, but it was foul. That's the true story. When I got into the boxing, I realized that that was

... You found a home. Yeah, I did. I found something that would become... It was quite a career that I had representing United States. So at 13, you show up, I assume, a Golden Gloves gym or something. No, I go, well, it was a gym. It was not, it wasn't a Golden Gloves gym. It was just a gym at the time.

And it was in a neighborhood. It was in Kensington. And you walked up these steps. I mean, it's been in a couple, two or three movies. It was in Creed. Really? Yeah, yeah. The very place. Yeah in Creed and... Really? Yeah, yeah. The very place.

Yeah, yeah, the place was in, yeah. So I mean, yeah, I mean, it was quite an experience. So yeah, I show up at this gym, I'm 126 pounds, and the guy that I went with, he was about five years older than me, maybe four years older, he was a buck 60. And they all took a liking to him, Irish kid, man could he fight, he was a puncher.

Didn't have any science behind what he did, but man when he threw that shot, like whoa, what the, did you see that? Was it one of those when it hit and sounded different? Yeah, yeah, yeah, it was a haymaker, he could punch. But I stuck in there and I hung in there and I ultimately picked up a trainer and at 16 I was number one in the city.

At 19 I was number one in the state. At 20 I was a top 10 in the country. And what weight? Middleweight. Yeah, I was 65, 165, yeah. Middleweight is an interesting weight. I boxed a little coming up, but was... What did you weigh? Were you 175?

175, yeah. That's considered a light heavyweight. Yeah, which I was not... Listen, hear me when I tell you, I was nothing, okay? I was really, really good at getting punched. I could get punched well, and I could stand up while I was punched, but that was it. But middleweight, middleweight to me is that weight that you've gotta be able to throw hard punches, but you're still small enough that you move quickly. I think middleweight is a-

Yeah, I agree. Yeah, you hit that right. hard punches but you're still small enough that you move quickly. I think middleweight is a… Yeah, I agree. Yeah, you hit that right. Yeah, because they're typically very good punchers and quick with their hands. Yeah, got to be. Yeah, yeah. It's a tough division. It's a tough division. So here you are, you're top in the state at 16 at middleweight. Yeah, I was number one in the city at the time and I hadn't won the Golden Gloves just yet.

I actually had, I did win the Junior Olympics and but I didn't win the Golden Gloves yet. I won the Golden Gloves at 17, 18 and then 19 I won it. And that's unbelievable. I mean, yeah people listening Who don't know anything about boxing which is probably most that really don't I mean When you're there you're on a track to be on national team Possibly Olympics and you know, I mean that's those are the best of the best. Yeah, tough kid

Yeah, it was so you found your you found your home at that time in your life. I found the sport that I could excel at because I couldn't do it for whatever reason. I could not do it. And I'll share something with you when I got a chance to play softball when I was about 26. when I got a chance to play softball when I was about 26. But that's... We'll get to that. So I gotta believe coming from Kensington, coming from where you are and now as the state guy in Golden Gloves, nobody really screwed with you anymore, did they? Yeah, no, you're right. Well, here's the thing.

What I've come to find out in my life and growing up is that tough guys really don't have to, you know, they don't have to defend themselves, you know, in how tough they are, they're gentlemen, you know. I mean, it's guys that are insecure, you know, that somehow, someway always seemed like they had to prove themselves. That's interesting. So because as I got better, the better I got with my hands, the more I realized that I

could beat all the guys that I feared or I was afraid of. But I never had to do that. And we just come to a respect. And in the city, believe it or not, people know when you're tough. The older I get, the tougher I was. People say you- I am 56 years old and I still remember the guys in high school that you just did not screw with.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I do. I still remember them. Okay, there you go. And at 56, if they walked through this door right now, I still wouldn't screw with them. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, there's a code of honor amongst tough guys. Tough guys don't have to,

they don't have to defend themselves. But when it comes their way, you rise to the occasion. So now you're the state champ. Where does it go from there? from there. Okay. So, I go, let me see, let me see. So I win the state championship, Golden Gloves. I win the city of Philadelphia. I win the region and then I win the state. And then I go represent the United States, I represent Pennsylvania in the nationals.

And I flew down to Louisiana. And my first fight, I handled a guy, bap boom, done. Second fight, I got a guy from Chicago and he came in with more medals on his hat and his robe and he was an Olympian and all. And first round, bang, down. Second, I mean, first round again, boom, down. I put him down twice. Second round, put him down twice. I lost the fight. You're kidding. No, I'm not kidding.

I lost the fight. So I made it to the quarterfinals there, and then, but it was all good. I mean, it is what it is. I mean, then I made the USA boxing team, which that was fun. That's crazy. Where'd you box? You had to box all over the USA boxing team, you know, which that was fun. That's crazy. Where'd you box? You had to box all over the place. Yeah, I did. Well, I fought the – let's see. I fought – my first one time I went to Sweden,

I fought the Swedish kid, you know. In fact, I was out to dinner two weeks ago on a Sunday with a couple of people. His wife is born in Sweden. She still goes over. I said, I fought in Sweden. He said, when? I says, he was Olympian. It was in 1981 and 10,000 people in the arena, USA team, we won in the bus. They were rocking the bus. We get in there. And man, I'm a tall kid. Man, I'm a tall kid. Bah, bah, dah, dah, bah, ha, ha. I mean, it was on, right? And the winner from the United States of America, Buddy Osborne.

Oh, man, it was amazing. Everybody was whistling, I'm like, this is great. Well, here I find out whistling is like a boo. That was it. So I go back in the dressing room, 15 minutes later, no joke, I get changed. My teammate comes in and says, they want you outside. So what they did, they reversed the decision and they gave it to that guy. Are you kidding?

No. But here's what happened. I saw it in the paper with my hands raised and with my trunks on and his head down. And then another picture, it has my head down and his hands raised, you know? But what happened, so I told him, his son was there. I said, I would love to get that picture and that write-up. He goes on and he finds the article. No kidding. No picture. And the guy's name, and it gives a little article. No kidding. No picture. And the guy's name, and it gives a little article about-

This many years later. Yeah, yeah, yeah. The guy's name, he was in the 1980 Olympics, the guy. Wow. So then I went into, I went from there and I went to Denmark. And I go out and it's American referee, and I go, ha it's American referee and I go down, right?

And then he gets up again. If you knock a guy down three times in one round, it's done. It's over. Bang! Goes down again. Go back to the corner. Now I remember what happened to me with the internationals. Second round, bang! Down again. Boom! Down again he is, right?

I was so frustrated. Now he's fighting a little dirty. So I look, I see the referee. I get here, right? And I get him, right? I bite him. You bit him. I bit his ear.

I didn't bite it off. You weren't Tyson. You know that happened in Memphis. Oh, the- With Hollyfield. Was that in Memphis? That was Oh, the fight with Hollyfield. Was that in Memphis? That was here. That was here.

Was it really? What about that? Well, then I made it home. Well, guess what? I did it before Tyson. Yeah, but you didn't bite at all. I didn't bite at all, but you know what happened? Because I was frustrated.

I didn't want to lose this fight. I won the fight, by the way. So we're sitting in a press conference, no joke. So I'm here, he's here, and then the other guys there, and each of our teammates. So I said, what happened to your ear, what happened here? And this is no joke, he says, you bit me, you dirty bastard. Like, the way he said it was like, what?

The whole place just went nuts, man. And then I went to Norway, and I knocked the guy out, stretched him in the first round and it was great. Stretched him. So I really had an amazing career, but at the age of 22, I had 90 fights. Good Lord, that's a lot of fights. You're lucky you were punch-drunk at 22. that's a lot of fights. Yeah, and I just thought... You're lucky you were punch-drunk at 22. Yeah, well...

I mean, that's a lot of fights. Yeah, but it's... It is, but there's kids now that have 200 fights, but, you know... But it was a great experience for me, you know? It was so, so amazing. We'll be right back. perspective and insight. I'm bringing in some FOKs, friends of Katie's, to help me out, like Ezra Klein, Van Jones, Jen Psaki, Ested Herndon.

But we're also gonna have some fun, even though these days fun and politics seems like an oxymoron. But we'll do that thanks to some of my friends like Samantha Bee, Roy Wood Jr., and Charlemagne the God. We're gonna take some viewer questions as well. I mean, isn't that what democracy is all about? Power to the podcast for the people.

So whether you're obsessed with the news or just trying to figure out what's going on, this season of Next Question is for you. Check out our new season of Next Question with me, Katie Couric, on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, y'all, I'm Maria Fernanda Diaz. My podcast, When You're Invisible, is my love letter to the working class people

and immigrants who shaped my life. I get to talk to a lot of people who form the backbone of our society, but who have never been interviewed before. Season two is all about community, organizing, and being underestimated. All the greatest changes have happened when a couple of people said, this sucks, let's do something about it.

I can't have more than $2,000 in my bank account or else I can't get disability benefits. They won't let you succeed. I know we get paid to serve you guys, but like be respectful we're made out of the same things. Bone, body, blood. It's rare to have black male teachers. Sometimes I am the lesson and I'm also the testament. Listen to When You're Invisible as part of the MyCultura podcast network. Available on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. ACTOR Arnold Schwarzenegger is many things.

Actor, bodybuilder, governor. But did you know that he was once a director? And that the only film he has ever directed is a 1992 made-for-TV remake of the 1945 Christmas classic Christmas in Connecticut? 1992 made-for-TV remake of the 1945 Christmas classic, Christmas in Connecticut. So these things don't happen. Nobody calls the biggest star in the world and says, hey, they want to direct your TV movie.

On our Revisionist History Christmas special this year, we are telling, for the very first time, the absolutely wild, really very funny story behind the making of the most improbable Christmas movie of all time. The first thing out of his mouth is, so what have you guys been doing since Commando? Clearly not going to the gym.

Along the way, we're gonna meet outlaw country singers, Cary Grant's ex-wife, the bestselling author of Tuesdays with Maury, all of them leading in a very bizarre twist to billions of dollars in tax implications. You can hear it starting December 18th on the Revisionist History Podcast. Listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. So now here you are.

You're 22, 23. You've had this great experience and you find yourself back in Kensington, yeah? Yes. Yes. So what do you do? Wow. Tough guy. Well, I'll tell you what.

I left Kensington at 19 and I went into a training camp. I lived, I don't know whether you remember a guy, Howard Corssell. You remember Howard Corssell? Who does not remember Howard Corssell? So here I am, I'm in a training camp now. Howard Corssell. You have a voice like him. Yeah, so I remember I lived in, like in Kensington there's no trees, you know. So I go to this place in this training camp, this is my new trainer.

trees, you know? So I go to this place in this training camp. This is my new trainer. And the guy who drove me, his name is Markie, they called us to Kensington Connection because he was a one bad dude. He was a couple years younger than me. Man, could he fight? He had a liver shot that would,

he would knock the heavyweights out with his liver shot. He just knew how to get it. He would like, bop! And you can't recover from that. So he said, listen, I'm going, because I had stopped boxing at the Kensington gym. He says, I've been going up at this other gym. I said, yeah, come on. I go up. He says, listen, the trainer there, he's different. Well, okay, because he has everybody fight the same way. Well, okay, because he has everybody fight the same way. So I go, I go up.

Sure enough, he gets me and he has me like this with my hand, like that. It was just so awkward for me. I'm like, oh, because I had like 50 fights at the time. Like I had more fights than all of them there. I said, okay, I'll do it, you know. And then sure enough, I wound up staying there. And he really became like a mentor to me. And he was a powerful labor leader. And that goes into something

that we'll talk about. But he was a well-known man, and just politically connected, and just politically connected and just a soldier. So long story short, he developed a really good boxing team. And it's interesting. I remember there was a picture, it says, boys in sports, stay out of courts. Boys in sports, stay out of courts. Yes. But if you looked at that now, out of all of the guys that were on that picture, everyone is probably about 330 years of incarceration with all of them. Wow. Tough kids, tough area. Yeah. So, you're back.

You've been overseas, you've done your boxing, you got your 95s, you're back in Kensington. What's next for Buddy? Well, one of the things in Kensington is the trade, there's a trade called as a roofer, you know, and I always wanted to be a roofer, man. So I was 16 years old at the time, 17. Made money.

It was great, man. It was a great, and it was, there was a status to it, you know. See, when I was a young kid, when guys went to prison, it was a badge of honor, you know. I know it's a warped mentality to think about, but when you're a wayward kid and you're looking… Let me tell you something, brother. You know? I didn't think about, but when you're a wayward kid and you're looking... Let me tell you something, brother. It is so interesting. Now, see, here we go on a divergent conversation, but it is so interesting to me. How old are you?

65. All right. 65 years old and you're talking about boxing and growing up tough and we've heard about as a 13 year old watching heroin or drugs being used on a street corner. And now you talk about when you're growing up, going to go into prison as a badge of honor. And this is 70s, 80s,

and you're a white Irish Catholic guy, right? And then we look at so many of the lost areas in communities today and in the inner city, and they're largely black, with doing some of the same stuff. And there is this thing inside the inner city and gangs today that is about street cred, which is doing time and all of that. And it screams to me that this is not a racial thing, it's a socioeconomic thing. And I just think it's very interesting that your life growing up mirrors many young strapping kids life today growing up that I've coached and worked with. They're no different. They're not any

different at all. It doesn't have anything to do with race. It doesn't have anything to do with any of that. It just has to do with socioeconomics and the zip code at the time of your birth often. What do you think about that? Well, I think you got some good points there, you know. I think for me, you have to really find out what is the truth in your life. I mean, as a young kid, and you know what I mean, and I knew in my own life, Bill, to answer that question, I'm going to get back to that, that there was something missing. There was a void in my life. So I was grabbing hold of things that were just making me feel good and making me feel relevant, but I had no solid foundation. In Scripture it talks about, and I use this with a lot of kids that come in from the streets,

I'll say, what's the first thing you do when you build a house? I'll ask them that. First thing I'll do, I'll say, hey, have you ever fought? They say, because I ain't even fighting, I was lost. I says, is that right? How you hold your hands and I'll put the... I said, okay. I would drop you in three seconds, bro.

I let... You come up to me looking like that, I'm going to put you to sleep in about five seconds. Listen, but I let them shoot their movie. Let them do their thing. Coach, you know what I mean. I'll say, all right, so let me ask you a question. When you build a house, what's the first thing you do?

Well, we go get the lumber, or we go get the materials. I said, all right, okay, all right. Get the architecture plans, all right. And they name all these things. And then all of a sudden, I'm gonna say foundation. I said, okay, all right, get the architecture plans. All right, and they name all these things. And then all of a sudden, I'm gonna say foundation. I said, perfect. So if you build your house on the sand and the wind and rain, as it says in scripture,

what house would stand? You build it on the sand or you build it on the rock? And obviously they say the rock. I said, well, listen, that's like your life. Now look, so what I'll do is I'll stand up and I'll square off, I'll say push me, and I'll go, I said, no push me, no push me, I'll fall back, and then I'll turn around,

I'll put my legs under me, shoulder width apart, hands high, chin down, push me bro, go ahead. They can't even move me. I said, you see, that's sand, and this is Rock, now let's do it. And then before you know it, they start listening to the conversation. They respond to things. Get your hand out.

Get your left hand out. Start using your jab. So it's just bait that I use to bring in kids to check their heart because of that void that I lived with and grew up with. You know, boxing was one thing, but it progressed and the propensity for violence for me continued outside of boxing. You know, and so as I was 22, I stopped boxing, went back into Kensington and then I worked my way up into being a roofer and making a good living. So I was at a crossroad.

I was an apprentice at the time. It's a four-year apprenticeship program. Is roofing a union job up there? Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So what happened was… Which means a good wage. It means a way to make a living.

Yeah, yeah. A good, honest, a living. Yes, yes, yes. A good, honest, hard living. Yes, yes, yes. Right? So, I take this responsibility. I graduate from apprenticeship school and I'm a second hand to the foreman. So, I had an opportunity to be a shop steward or to be a foreman and I waited as someone to be a shop steward because I liked the whole thing.

So at the age of 25, I was hired as a union organizer. So I go to a job, it's a Friday, and they call me to the union hall. I'm dirty, I smell like pitch. And the guy says, you know, buddy, we want to put you on as an organizer. I had got wind of it. I said, wow I smell like pitch. And the guy says, you know, buddy, we wanna put you on as an organizer. I had got wind of it. I said, wow, that's unbelievable. I go, I pick out a brand new car. I come in, that's a Friday,

I come into the Union Hall on a Monday morning. I got gabadine pants on, I got beautiful shoes, hairs combed back, shirt smelling good. Got my brand new car, I'm ready. And sure enough, you know, I love what I did. I love what I did. Now, was it right? Let's talk about what a union organizer does. Listen, man, you got to remember this is the southeast. Unions are not big down here. Oh, they're not? Okay. Not like they're on the northeast or the Midwest, not at all. Our history is not manufacturing, our history is farming, our history is logging.

There's certainly manufacturing down here, but as a result, it's just not as big of a union presence in the southeast for the blue-collar middle class. So I'm just asking, an organizer, does that mean you're out there representing the union trying to get other roofers to join the union? Are you a recruiter? Are you a salesman? So here's what the way it went. You got to remember the roofers union were fearedus Union were feared. They were feared.

Why were they feared? Well, they were feared because it was a bunch of men that were either incarcerated, they'd meant long time, tough, tough, violent, violent. And so, and you always, bank robbers, you know. Really? Oh, yeah. You know, you name it, they were in it. And that was a trade that for some reason, they were allowed to come in. Now, I don't know whether you ever know anything about the mob or

anything like that in the cities of Philadelphia. Well, in the 80s, there was a mob war, and 28 men were killed in that war. The second person was killed was my boss. He was assassinated in front of his wife, shot six times in the head. Your roofing boss? Yeah, my- Or the union boss? The union boss.

The union, the guy who ran the union. Well, is that because the union and the mob were so closely tied together? No, here's what happened was, my boss was 60 years old, the union and the mob were so closely tied together? No, here's what happened was, my boss was 60 years old, the union boss, he was the founder of Local 30 Roofers Union. His name was John McCullough. He was a World War II hero, just a strapping guy, crew haircut, just like you knew he was around.

One of the nicest guys you'd ever meet. But tough. Oh yeah, there's no doubt about that, that. Oh yeah, there's no doubt about that. He was tough. There's no doubt about that. So Atlantic City was popped up. So there was a lot of building going on there and the mob was… You can look this up.

This is a matter of public record. The mob was in there pretty good. They wanted to get in there and build. And there was a guy named Mickey Scarfo who was actually became the mob of Philadelphia. But he was put on a shelf, so to speak. He was sent to Atlantic City because he was starting some trouble. But he hated McCullough, apparently. He had a hatred, and he had a fear of him because he was fearful, I believe is from what you read and hear and remember, that John had all of Atlantic City. He was strong there.

He was a presence in the labor movement. So he was going to get all the roof arc? Well, of course we would absolutely get all, but there was more than that. He was just a, he was union all, I mean everybody just looked at him as the savior in a sense, you know? And so anyway, he was shot and killed and-

Did you say in front of his wife? Yeah, it was December 16th, 1980, and he, this guy named Willard Moran came in with poinsettias and knocked on the door and says, I have more, can I go out? He's talking on the phone to another guy I know, and when he came in, he pulled out a gun and shot him six times in front of his wife. And they wound up getting him, and they got him, and they got the two people that were behind it and that's another story. But what happened was I'm grafted into this. This was 1980. So 1985,

five years later, I'm now hired as an organizer, you know, and it was probably the most fascinating time of my life because I'm an eighth grade dropout. You know, I'm an inner city kid. A boxer. I'm a boxer. A roofer. Now I'm a roofer. Part of Local 30. I mean, you've got the credibility at this point. Oh, there's no question about it. There's no question about it. And that concludes part one of my conversation with Buddy Osborne. And listen, you don't want to miss part two.

It's just more buddy being buddy. It's available to listen to right now. Together guys, we can change this country. But it starts with you. I'll see you in part two. Hey everyone, it's Katie Couric. Well, the election is in the homestretch, right in time for a new season of my podcast, Next Question. I'm bringing in some FOKs, Friends of Katie's to help me out like Ezra Klein,

Jen Psaki, Astead Herndon. But we're also going to have some fun thanks to some of my friends like Samantha Bee and Charlamagne the God. We're going to take some viewer questions as well. I mean, isn't that what democracy is all about? Thanks to some of my friends like Samantha Bee and Charlemagne the God. We're going to take some viewer questions as well. I mean, isn't that what democracy is all about? Check out our new season of Next Question with me, Katie Couric, on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Hey, y'all. I'm Maria Fernanda Diaz. When You're Invisible is my love letter to the working class people and immigrants who shaped me. Season two, share stories about community and being underestimated. All the greatest changes have happened when a couple of people said, this sucks. Let's do something about it. We get paid to serve you,

but we're made out of the same things. It's rare to have black male teachers. Sometimes I am the testament. Listen to When You're Invisible on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Arnold Schwarzenegger is many things, but did you know that he was once a director? And that the only film he has ever directed is a 1992 made-for-TV remake of Christmas in Connecticut? Nobody calls it the biggest star in the world who says, hey, they want to direct your TV movie. On our Revisionist History Christmas special this year, we are telling the really very

funny story behind the making of the most improbable Christmas movie of all time. The first thing out of his mouth is, so what have you guys been doing since Commando? Clearly not going to the gym. You can hear it all right now on the Revisionist History podcast. going to the gym.