An Army of Normal Folks - Could Potluck Dinners Save America?

Episode Date: May 16, 2025

For Shop Talk, we feature portions of Eboo Patel's powerful talk "Could A Potluck Dinner Save Our Democracy?". Support the show: https://www.normalfolks.us/premiumSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Hey everybody, welcome to the shop. What's up? I don't know. We just had a fun night last night in Memphis at Grind City Brewing. That was pretty awesome. I encourage everybody to listen to this shop talk, to listen to the live interview we did with fire officer Tim Brown from Manhattan who was 20 steps from the front door of the tower on 9-11 when it fell. He saved lives and lost lots of people and we did a live interview in

Memphis with him last night and we're a little tired because it went late but my goodness what an inspirational story, huh? Plus, Grand City Brewing has a Rice Krispie Treat beer. That's amazing. I did not have that. Was it good? It was good. Really?

You gotta go, it's like across the street from your office, bro. You can literally admit it, drive to it. I had no idea they had a Rice Krispie Treat beer. Yeah. Did I say that right? Yeah. Incredible.

Anyway, the interview will not be out for a few weeks, so just, it's not available yet, but. Where's George? I need somebody to ring the bell. It's at school right now. That's ridiculous. I got a, I'm training an official bell ringer, and what is George, four?

Oh, he's five. He's five. I've got a five-year-old bell ringer who's not here. George, if you're listening, you know, this is not cool not showing up to bell ringing time. Together, guys, we're going to talk about a potluck dinner saving our democracy. So that's coming up next, right after these brief messages from our generous sponsors. I'm Soledad O'Brien, and on my podcast, Murder on the Towpath, I'm taking you back to the

1960s. Mary Pinchot-Meyer was a painter who lived in Georgetown in Washington, D.C. Every day she took a daily walk along a towpath near the E&O Canal. So when she was killed in a wealthy neighborhood... She had been shot twice in the head and in the back behind the heart. The police arrived in a heartbeat. Within 40 minutes, a man named Raymond Crump Jr. was arrested. He was found nearby, soaking wet, and he was black.

Only one woman dared defend him, civil rights lawyer, Dovey Roundtree. Join me as we unravel this story with a crazy twist, because what most people didn't know is that Mary was connected to a very powerful man. I pledge you that we shall neither commit nor provoke aggression. John F. Kennedy. Listen to Murder on the Toe Path with Soledad O'Brien on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, I'm Bob Pitman, Chairman and CEO of iHeartMedia.

On this week's episode of Math and Magic, I'm sitting down with the one and only Bobby Bones. We're exploring the power of audio. The word on the street then was, he's too country for pop. But then once I got to country, it was he's too pop for country. So I kind of never really had a place to fit in, but that's exactly how and why I fit. I just embraced that. Like yeah, I don't fit into one specific hole. I think that is what endeared me to listeners. That's why I'm here now because I talk

to people that grew up like me, have sensibilities like me, and have loyalties like me. Listen to math and magic, and have loyalties like me. Listen to Math & Magic, stories from the frontiers of marketing on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. My parachute did not deploy. I was kidnapped by a drug cartel. I just remember everything getting dark. I'm dying. We step beyond the edge of what we know.

To open our consciousness to something more than just what's in that Western box. In return. I clinically died. The heart stopped beating. Which I was dead for 11.5 minutes. My name is Dan Bush. My mission is simple, to find, explore, and share these stories.

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Listen to Alive Again on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. A lot of times the big economic forces we hear about on the news show up in our lives in small ways. Three or four days a week, I would buy two cups of banana pudding, but the price has gone up, so now I only buy one. The demand curve in action, and that's just one of the things we'll be covering

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So listen to everybody's business on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. In 1978, Roger Caron's first book was published and he was unlike any first time author Canada had ever seen. Roger Caron was 16 when first convicted. Had spent 24 of those years in jail. 12 years in solitary. He went from an ex-con to a literary darling almost overnight.

He was instantly a celebrity. He was an adrenaline junkie and he was the star of the show. Go-Boy is the gritty true story of how one man fought his way out of some of the darkest places imaginable. I had a knife go in my stomach, puncture my screen, break my ribs, I had my guts all in my hands. Only to find himself back where he started. Roger's saying this, I've never hurt anybody but myself.

And I said, oh, you're so wrong. You're so wrong on that one, Rob. From Campside Media and iHeart Podcasts, listen to GO! Boy on the iHeart Radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. All right, everybody. Shop Talk number 52. 52 weeks in a year. 52 weeks. That means we've done a year of Shop Talks. That's true. That's incredible.

Yeah, where's my present? I think I deserve the present. You just sit there with earphones on your head and comment occasionally. I have to do all the work. Where's my present? I know what I want I want another cake so I can eat it with my fingers because that's yummy I think you forgot to say this in the episode. We just recorded Well, it's gonna come out before her episode too, but no what the guests won't know about the cake yet

That episode is not live yet, but that's all right. Well, then here's the deal. I just tease. We've got a cake lady, a cake lady episode coming out. We have a cake lady episode coming out and I make a complete glutton of muscle. Actually, there is a good transition. We're about to talk about food. Well, that's what you would bring to a potluck.

Perfect. Yeah, I didn't plan that, but it just rolled into it. Could a potluck dinner save our democracy? Alright y'all listen up to the shop talk. It's inspiring. It's interesting Ibu Patel is the founder of an interfaith America and Excuse me the founder of interfaith, and he gave a fascinating talk to NYU titled, Could a potluck dinner save our democracy? I'm going to read a portion of it now. I want to begin with something of a political story, if you will. So when I was a junior in high school,

this is probably 91, 92, my mom asked a question that made my life considerably more delicious. By the way, I love that word. And you call your kids it, which is weird. It is not weird. And a past shop talk that people can listen to. My kids are delicious. I mean, you don't eat them, so it's kind of weird. I savor my children.

You could say that. They're the greatest thing in my life. You could say that. That would be a little more normal. Well, then this guy that Mr. Ibu Patel, is also weird because he said- He's calling a meal delicious, not his children. No. He's not a cannibal.

He said, my mom asked a question that made my life considerably more delicious. Via food, but keep going. Okay. She said, would you like to have turkey for Thanksgiving or biryani this year? Okay. She said, would you like to have turkey for Thanksgiving or biryani this year? I mean, anybody ever had biryani? The answer to that is obvious, right? And there's a deep logic to my mom's thinking. So don't get me wrong, the turkey is a wonderful bird.

It's perfectly nice fowl, if you will. But as far as the dish the dish goes I mean it can be improved upon let us say my mom's sticking to herself we Muslims from South Asia we have a feast food we have a celebration food and Thanksgiving is a feast and a celebration so why wouldn't we prepare the far tastier celebration of food of our culture for the feast day of the nation in which we live." And we had biryani. I think it's biryani which I actually had to look up this morning. It's spelled b-i-r-y-a-a-n-i. So what do you think it's called? I think it's biryani but we're clearly both ignorant and need to try this dish. Fine, biryani. This is Glen Ellyn, Illinois in the early 1990s. Can you guess how many

people at Glen Bard South High School I told that my family was having biryani for Thanksgiving instead of turkey? And you want to venture a guess? Zero. So now here's what's interesting. My friends, people I'm still close to today, included a South Indian Hindu, a Cuban, a Jew, a Mormon, a Catholic, a Lutheran, and a Nigerian Evangelical. That almost sounds like the beginning to a joke where they all walked in a bar. I promise you, turkey was not the main dish

at everybody's Thanksgiving. My South Indian Hindu friends' family was vegetarian. None of us talked about the distinctive religious and ethnic foods we were having on an American feast day. There is a diversity paradigm that describes this reality. It's called the melting pot. The idea is that we should all melt our distinctiveness into the same general goo. Everybody's heard of this diversity paradigm.

I grew up in the 80s and 90s. This is the paradigm that I grew up with. For those of you who were born and raised in the 21st century, this is ancient history to a lot of you. In all honesty, you grew up with a different diversity paradigm. But for those of us whose formative years were in the late 20th century, you grew up with a different diversity paradigm. But for those of us whose formative years were in the late 20th century, you had to have biryani at home, you just didn't talk about it at school. At school, you just did what everybody else did. You ate what they

ate, you wore what they wore, you listened to what they listened to. That's the melting pot. Let me tell you something. The melting pot was a step forward for 1907. And I'm being serious when I say that, right? That's when the term was invented. It's the title of a play by a guy named Israel Zangwill who was a Jewish refugee from Russia and who witnessed back in Russia very ugly pogroms. What is that? It's I mean they're just go around and killing a bunch of Jews. Good pogroms. Who witnessed back in Russia very ugly pogroms against minorities and he comes here and he says you know what we don't

bring our conflicts here it's actually a really important thing to consider conflicts everywhere should not pattern our relationships here the problem with that is should we not bring something of our of our identity should we not be proud of our distinctiveness so the melting pot is a step forward if the alternative is conflict between identity groups and by the way what happens long not long after 1907, World War I in Europe? Tens of millions of people die in ethnic-national conflicts. The United States has a lot of ugliness in the 21st century, but not that level. The melting pot is a step forward for that period in time, but for our period, we need a different metaphor.

And what I want to suggest is the way we think about American democracy is it's a potluck. Could it save our democracy? Well let's discuss. But let's talk for a moment about what a potluck is. This is again extremely familiar but I actually think the best metaphor and the best symbols are extremely familiar, but I actually think the best metaphor and the best symbols are extremely familiar. The big idea of a potluck is that you want to gather a diverse array of people and invite them to bring a dish that is distinctive to their identity and household to a common space. And in that common space, things work best if there are interesting creative combinations

between those dishes and enriching conversation between diverse people. So everything I'm describing is super straightforward, super colloquial, super familiar and totally magic. This is the everyday magic of American civic life. Let's break this down. Number one, everyone is a contributor. So has anybody ever said to someone, if you've hosted a potluck, hey, I know that you were too marginalized to bring a dish.

That's a totally serious question. Has anyone ever said that? Everyone else can bring a dish, but you were too oppressed to bring a dish. No. Holy smokes. that's a great line. Just think about that. I'm gonna repeat that. Everybody listening needs to consider what this man's saying.

The everyday magic of American civic life, let's break this down. Number one, everyone is a contributor. So has anybody ever said to someone, he votes in a potluck, hey, I know that you are too marginalized to bring a dish. Has anyone ever said that? Everybody else can bring a dish, but you are too oppressed to bring a dish. No. The assumption is everybody can bring a dish.

Everybody is a contributor. Everybody is going to enrich the space of the potluck. Now, people are aware that it's easier for some folks than others. If you have a really nice house with a nice kitchen and plenty of money, it's gonna be easier. If you have a nice car that you can bring that food in, it's gonna be easier.

There are barriers to some people's contributions. We realize that, but theers don't define people. The contributions define the people. So that's the first thing. The assumption in a potluck is that everybody is a contributor. By the way, if you don't have a kitchen, you show up early and you help clean the space

before the other people come. Everybody knows they have to contribute. Part one. Part one. Part two. As much as I like biryani, and for whoever has not had it, I highly suggest it. I don't want to potluck all of biryani. And as much as you might like hummus or falafel or hamburgers or whatever, you don't want to potluck with just that kind of food.

A potluck is the most delicious, most wonderful, most beautiful if there's a diverse array of food that shows up. And if you have a wide variety of contributors, everyone knows that, right? So here's the thing. The third thing, you don't actually just want there to be an array of food. You want people to kind of mix the food together on their plates. There's nothing better to potluck than hear somebody say, oh, my gosh, I never knew how awesome this crusty bread recipe from Eastern Europe would go

with this spicy dip from the Middle East. And you know what we call that America. We call that a space where people from the four corners of the earth praying in different ways, speaking in different tongues, bringing their dishes from their identities, come to a single space, and build out of it a community. That's called America. Where else do you get this very interesting combination of people

each invited to bring their dish to the table? Where else do you get those cool combinations? There are kosher Chinese restaurants in New York. How cool is that? They just think it's normal, right? There are Korean tacos in Chicago. They don't even know it's magical. That's just normal. People come here and they bring their dishes to the table and those dishes are beautiful and creative. What do you do at a potluck that's living and talking together?

What else makes a potluck special? No mayor, no general, no president, no governor can command you to do it. It's the ultimate civic form. Citizen by, and by citizens I mean anybody who participates in public life can put together their own potlucks. They create their own spaces. It's a form that we generate and create for ourselves. And when I ask people, how many of you participate in a potluck? Virtually every hand in the room went up. We do this ourselves. We are the generators of this civil society.

So for about 15 months after college, every Tuesday night, I hosted a potluck. It started with five to seven people in a group to like 60 people in this little one-and-a-half bedroom apartment in this neighborhood between Lincoln Park and Logan Square in Chicago. And so, I have lived this. And I have to tell you something. The first few potlucks, I like lost sleep on Monday nights. The potlucks were always Tuesday nights. I lost sleep on Monday nights.

You wanna know why? Be like, are the vegans gonna be mad? Seriously? Like something could go wrong. Just think about the million things that could go wrong in a potluck and you know what's kind of wild? It never did. It's possible someone could bring poison. It's true, but it almost never happens. That's awesome. The entire speech obviously is using potluck and a food as a metaphor that we as normal folks have to not worry about what you look

like, who you pray to, who you love, how you vote, but the beauty of our democracy, the beauty of our America is a melting pot and Mr. Patel here suggests that we quit using the 1907 term melting pot and go to a 1925 or 2025 version of that and call it a potluck because everybody enjoys a potluck. It's a combining of cultures in a delicious way that you can both appreciate and celebrate one another and over that potluck invariably becomes conversation where when you leave with your bellies full You also leave with your soul full understanding That our distinctiveness is beautiful and

Our ability to bring that distinctiveness together around a meal and conversation to learn about one another's is Even more fulfilling than the food itself. Could a potluck dinner save our democracy? I would say it could Alex. I think it could reduce a lot of our tribalism that's for sure if we actually had these potluck dinners. I love his example too like he actually did this he's not just preaching it but he did this thing with a couple of friends and it grew to 60 people in this small apartment and imagine if you had an army of normal folks doing that too. I I love

That he said here's what's interesting my friends people I'm still close to today include a South Indian Hindu a Cuban a Jew a a Catholic, a Lutheran, and a Nigerian evangelical. Assuming that these are some of his closest friends, I would imagine that group of people are also close with one another as a group. You can't get any more diverse than that. It's beautiful. And way more interesting. If we just ate barbecue every day, how boring is that that it that on the potluck thing there's a place in Memphis that has barbecue egg rolls and and barbecue spaghetti and barbecues spaghetti Italian and yeah Chinese Italian and

barbecue good old southern stuff and I promise you I don't care how you vote or how you worship or who you love. If you and I are sitting around some barbecue spaghetti and barbecue egg rolls, we can all agree that's pretty damn good. That's Shop Talk number 52, y'all. I'm gonna include a plug, our next luncheon lesson. Hold on, do it, just a second.

All right. That's number 52. Can a potluck dinner save our democracy? And I would suggest, both literally and metaphorically, Ibo Patel is onto something. A potluck dinner can save our democracy. Now, Alex, what you got? Well, and you saying that reminds me of people actually

do this, and you host a potluck dinner, that's this interesting and diverse emails about it. You know what Thanksgiving potluck dinner would be kind of cool. That would be, which is where this generated fun. But and he's right. Turkey's good, but it's not like it's the best food in the world. I mean, there's better dishes out there. I don't know.

Lisa's turkey gravy. When you put it on turkey and mashed potatoes, I actually look for it. Really? Oh, it's good stuff. Yeah. Yeah. All right, so the plug is our next live interview in Memphis, our lunch and listen, June 12th, Father Mark Hannah,

he and four other civilians helped save 50 people's lives on 9-11. To RSVP and learn more, it is fathermark.eventbrite.com. And one thing I was actually thinking of, driving up to your office today to do this is, it could be interesting to explain, not explain, but justify ourselves. We're doing a lot of this stuff in Memphis

because you are here. But if people are interested in doing this in their cities around the country too, some of these live events, make sure to email me and we can talk about it and see what's possible. But obviously it's- I am more than happy to take a day and to fly to any city in this country.

Oh, don't make some commitment that you're not prepared to keep. I didn't commit. What I said was I am more than happy to fly to any city in this country for any army member to do a live recorded interview if they can get 300 people or more there so that we can actually have an event.

I will do it. I will absolutely go to any city. That's a good challenge. We didn't plan this. You just threw down the gauntlet. Well, I'll do it. If any of you can get 300 people to an event for a live recording of a podcast for someone in your community that is worthy of being on this show because of the work that they're doing and you can put together an event place with 300 people more in

it I'll come and you'll have to do all the audio and video and everything else but I'll do it I will absolutely do that. That's awesome. So email us bill at normalfolks.us or me at army of normal folks dot us. We need more shop talk ideas, too Yeah, what else you got though? Send a shop talk. I mean I gotta go to work. Yeah, that's funny All right after you shop talk number 52. Let's put together some potlucks. Hey, I got an idea let's let's do remote events in other cities with 300 people and Everybody bring a small dish. Let's do national potlucks. That would be a big potluck. I don't care It'd be awesome. And I can use my fingers if someone brings cake

It's not really respectful if we're gonna be sharing these dishes Whatever if y'all are interested, it's open to you You just gotta gotta meet us halfway and help us pull it off, and we'll be there. At Shop Talk number 52. We'll see you next week. And on my new true crime podcast, Murder on the Towpath, I'm taking you back to 1964, to the cold case of artist Mary Pinchot-Meyer. She had been shot twice in the head and in the back. It turns out Mary was connected to a very powerful man.

I pledge you that we shall neither commit nor promote aggression. John F. Kennedy. Listen to Murder on the Towpath with Soledad O'Brien on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. What happens when we come face to face with death? My truck was blown up by a 20 pound anti-tank mine.

My parachute did not deploy. I was kidnapped by a drug cartel. When we step beyond the edge of what we know... I clinically died. The heart stopped beating. ...which I was dead for 11.5 minutes. ...in return... It's a miracle I was brought back.

...Alive Again, a podcast about the strength of the human spirit. Listen to Alive Again on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. Hi, I'm Bob Pitman, Chairman and CEO of iHeart Media. On this week's episode of Math and Magic, I'm sitting down with the one and only Bobby Bones. We're exploring the power of audio. Yeah, I don't fit into one specific hole. I think that is what endeared me to listeners. That's why I'm here now because I talk to people that grew up like me, have sensibilities

like me, and have loyalties like me. Listen to Math and Magic, stories from the frontiers of marketing on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. A lot of times big economic forces show up in our lives in small ways. Four days a week I would buy two cups of banana pudding, but the price has gone up, so now I only buy one. Small but important ways. From tech billionaires to the bond market to,

yeah, banana pudding. If it's happening in business, our new podcast is on it. I'm Max Chastain. And I'm Stacey Vanek-Smith. So listen to everybody's business on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Sometimes as dads, I think we're too hard on ourselves. We get down on ourselves on not being able to,

you know, we're the providers, but we also have to learn to take care of ourselves. A wrap-away, you got to pray for yourself, as well as for everybody else, but never forget yourself. Self-love made me a better dad because I realized my worth. Never stop being a dad. That's dedication. Find out more at fatherhood.gov. Brought to you by the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services and the Ad Council. You're listening to an iHeart Podcast.