An Army of Normal Folks - Daron Babcock: The Urban Farm That’s Cultivating People (Pt 1)

Episode Date: July 16, 2024

After the loss of his wife, Daron spiralled out of control and into brawls & cocaine. He found redemption in rehab and eventually dedicated his life to helping others write their redemption stories. Today, Bonton Farms is one of the largest urban farms in the country, but produce is far from its most important fruit. Support the show: https://www.normalfolks.us/premiumSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

I was searching for a way to self-medicate. I needed to feel better. I was suffocating. And the same way that you would fight for breath if somebody was choking you, I was fighting for something that would allow me to breathe for a minute. Oh gosh, that's profound. And the only thing that worked is when I hurt other people. Okay. I'm not proud of that. Welcome to an army of normal folks. I'm Bill Courtney. I'm a normal guy.

I'm a husband, I'm a father, I'm an entrepreneur, and I've been a football coach in inner city Memphis and the last part, somehow it led to an Oscar for the film about our team. That movie is called Undefeated. Guys, I believe our country's problems will never be solved by a bunch of fancy people in nice suits using big words that nobody else uses on CNN and Fox, but rather by an army of normal folks, us, just you and me deciding, hey, maybe I can help. That's what Darren Babcock has done. Darren hit rock bottom, as you just heard, which makes his redemption story even more beautiful.

He went on to accidentally found Bontan Farms, one of the largest urban farms in the country. Yet, it's not really about cultivating vegetables, it's about cultivating people. I cannot wait for you to meet Derek right after these brief messages from our generous sponsors. Hello, from Wunder Media Network, I'm Jenny Kaplan, host of Womanica, a daily podcast that introduces you to the fascinating lives of women history has forgotten. This month, we're bringing you the stories of athletes. There's the Italian race car driver who courted danger and became the first woman to compete

in Formula One. The sprinter who set a world record and protested racism and discrimination in the US and around the world in the 1960s. The diver who was barred from swimming clubs due to her race and went on to become the first Asian American woman to win an Olympic medal. She won gold twice.

The mountaineer known in the Chinese press as the tallest woman in the world. And the ancient Greek charioteer who exploited a loophole to become the first ever woman to compete at the Olympic Games. Listen to Wamanica on the iHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Last season, millions tuned into the Betrayal podcast

to hear a shocking story of deception. I'm Andrea Gunning, and now we're sharing an all-new story of betrayal. Stacey thought she had the perfect husband. Doctor, father, family man. It was the perfect cover for Justin Rutherford to hide behind. It led me into the house, and I mean, it was like a movie. He was sitting at our kitchen table. The cops were guarding him.

Stacey learned how far her husband would go to save himself. I slept with a loaded gun next to my bed. You not just say, I wish he was dead. He actually gave details and explained different scenarios on how to kill him. He to me is scarier than Jeffrey Dahmer. Listen to Betrayal on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. New Kids on the Block, Paramore, Shaboosie, The Black Crows, Thomas Rhett, Victoria Monet, and more. Get tickets to our 2024 iHeart Radio Music Festival, presented by Capital One right now,

before they sell out at aexs.com. Darren Beibcock, what's up? It's great to be here. Such an honor to meet you. They sent me over the documentary that they did. We have so many parallels that my heart bled with your heart. It was just an amazing story. And so it's an honor to be here.

Well, thank you. And thank you for spending some time away from Dallas to join us here in Memphis. And you've been here two days. So you got to spend a little time looking around Memphis yesterday. I hope you've enjoyed our fair city. Yeah, great hospitality, some amazing people doing just profound, beautiful work.

And like we said, kind of when we met, just the grit and tenacity of the people that are like rowing uphill, really steep hills and doing amazing work. It's been beautiful to see. I really, really appreciate that. Tell us about, you know, I found it really interesting, just the brief explanation of of a city boy living a duality life on the on the farm and the irony of that upbringing and where you are now, which we will certainly get to where you are now. But go forward on how you grew up.

Well, I'm a Texas panhandle guy. I love this part of my story, but I'm not sure exactly how my family got here, but they landed in Tennessee. And my great grandfather was a sharecropper and fell in love with the daughter of the family who owned the land that they farmed, which was forbidden at the time, and they were only 14. And so they stole a horse and a lope to the Texas Panhandle. Is that right? So really, your roots are in Tennessee.

Well, yeah, but I don't know where. That's how family and knowing where I came from is important to me. And those generations didn't talk. And so I want my children to know where they came from and what battles were fought for them to have the life they have today. And so my grandmother and grandfather told us some of these stories. And that's what they wrote down and told us. He was a sharecropper. He was a share fellow. Yeah. Stole a horse, migrated to Texas and got a job leveling, pulling a yule and

a plow leveling fields for oilfield storage tanks. And there were no housing there. So they lived in a dugout, a hole in the ground. You're kidding. And when my great grandmother got pregnant with my grandmother, I guess the job was winding down and when the chuck wagons that would come to feed them, it was too cumbersome to travel with the cook shack on the back of the wagon so they would leave it behind and wherever they were going next, they'd just build a new cook shack. So my family got to move out of the dugout

into the cook shack, and that's where my grandmother was born. We come from really humble blue collar. That's phenomenal. And where's that, you said in the panhandle, like where? Well, it was around Mule Shoe where this took place. Mule Shoe, the booming metropolis of Mule Shoe. Never developed much past those old days. He wound up establishing his own farm

in between Pampa and Groom, which are northeast of Amarillo. And then my dad was the first one in our family to go to college and was a banker in Amarillo. And I was raised in a small city in the Panhandle of Texas, but with those values from the way our family formed. And grew up in a small city in the panhandle of Texas, but with those values from the way our family formed. And grew up in a Christian home, I didn't get it. I think as I matured, I was looking for things

not to get it because I wanted to do what I wanted to do. I didn't want to surrender or submit to anything. So I participated, but it was never something that I bought into. And I was raised in some ways, contradictorily about work ethic and that you could do anything you put your mind to and the value of character in a man. And so that was everything to me. And since I didn't subscribe to the faith component of it, it was all about me, what I wanted to do and what price was I willing to pay to get what I wanted.

And fast forward, I get a scholarship to go to University of Oklahoma to wrestle, and we go there the first day, 1984, we had three Olympians come back, two gold medalists. I was about to say, dude, I don't know, wrestling is not huge in this area, the high schools have it and all, but anybody that knows anything is kinda like Oklahoma, Dude, I don't know, wrestling is not huge in this area. The high schools have it and all.

But anybody that knows anything is kinda like Oklahoma and I think Iowa. But if you wrestle at Oklahoma and you get a scholarship wrestling at Oklahoma, you're good. You were a tough dude. We had a very good team my first two years there. We were ranked top in the country

and we wound up being victims to Dan Gables legacy of nine national championships in a row. We were his eight. Dan Gables was your coach? He was Iowa. Oh, he was Iowa. Yeah. So you're right. It's at that time, the landscapes changed today, but at that time it was Oklahoma, Oklahoma state, Iowa state and Iowa. Those were the powerhouses every year.

There's been a lot of equity across the landscape now. So that's changed, but at that time, those were the four top teams. And you wrestled with Olympians on your team. Yeah, and I just, I got there, you know, coming out of high school, you're a star. Everybody that shows up there was the guy. Had to be to even go to Oklahoma. But then you go to that environment and you're a star, everybody that shows up there was the guy. Had to be to even go to Oklahoma. But then you go to that environment and you're not.

And I just all the confidence that I came in there with just, I just left me, I don't belong here. And the coach sits us down, we had the largest recruiting class that we've ever had, top ranked team in the country. And he says, look around the wall, where all the champions, the pictures of all the world champions, Olympic champions, national champions. And he said, you know, out of this whole room, there may be three of you that get your picture on that wall. And the numbers are working against you because there's going to be 10 of you that have already seen your best days. There's going to be 10 or 12 of you that don't do the work in the classroom to wind up being able to earn the right to have your picture on the wall.

There's gonna be some of you that want the college experience and to chase girls or whatever, but those that are willing to do whatever it takes to accomplish what you wanna do, everything here is for you. You have all the conditions to become a champion at the University of Oklahoma exists.

What are you gonna do with it? And they handed out these shirts, it said Oklahoma Wrestling on the back, it said, if it is to be, it's up to me. It's what I've been told my whole life. That's phenomenal. Did Hulk Hogan wrestle there? I'm just kidding.

Different type of wrestling. Different type of wrestling. Interestingly, if it is to be, it's up to me, which fed into that hard work ethic and that family dynamic of character and everything else, which is fantastic. There's nothing wrong with that. In balance.

But if it's to be, it's up to me, makes you your own God. Yeah. Which is a house of cards and will come crashing down at some point which it did for me. So you're at Oklahoma, you're a wrestler on scholarship which means you got life. I mean you're you're rolling right and well you have the life that if you accept that scholarship, you're theirs.

Yeah. And that much of a life we did what they said. Yeah. Yeah. So I read that you went on a run one day. Tell us about the run. The one that ended at the Kappa house. Oh. And what that led to.

Yeah. Well, so that time at University of Oklahoma, the athletic facilities were separate from the college and they were really discouraged the co-mingling. It was pretty rough. We had some shootings and stuff in the athletic side of things. Really? Yeah. If you read the book, I think it was in Barry Switzer's book. I can't remember what it was called. Bootleggers. Anyway. Yeah. It was a pretty rough time. We had security on around the athletic stuff that the rest of the school didn't have. And when we did

well, the coaches would take us on a run through the campus and we got to see what college life was. Wow. Like what the, what the, what was really going on. And this particular night we ran all through and then when we finished the run, he left us in the campus. Like where all this college kids are. That's girls.

That's almost like, hear wild dogs go eat. Yeah. And the funny part of it is, is that before that day, my mom had run into a family friend in a grocery store the nights. They're good. They have mutual good friends. It was an offensive lineman at the University of Oklahoma. That's how the different, they knew each other. And they're like, well, like families do when they hadn't seen each other. Well, how are your kids? Where are they? It's like, oh, Darren's great. He's at the University of Oklahoma. He got to go wrestle there. He's like, how are your kids? He's like, well, like families do when they hadn't seen each other. Well, how are your kids? Where are they? And it's like, Oh, Darren's great. He's at the university of Oklahoma.

He got to go wrestle there. He's like, how are your kids? He's like, Oh, Marcy just, uh, she went, she's a freshman at the university of Oklahoma too. We should get them together. And so as mothers do, they each give phone numbers out to them. And I'm like, uh, you know, threw it away. I'm sure she did the same. And then after this run that day, we're sitting in

the middle of campus and as we're walking by all the sorority houses and all the different stuff, you could see these windows that were windows for a basement. And the basement was filled with these girls. That's a good place to stop. It's like, hey, we need to go see what's going on. So it was a study hall for the Kappa Kappa Gamma pledges. And my mom had mentioned that Marcy was a Kappa Kappa Gamma pledge. And so I'm like, we walked in and I was like, which one of you is Marcy Knight? And they all started giggling.

And then eventually said, oh, she's skipping tonight. And so that's kind of how that started. They all told their friends that some guy had come through asking about her. And the next day we were in our dorms after practice and there were these girls in the hallway, which were forbidden. So somehow they'd snuck in the dorms

and we met that night and went out on our first date. Eventually when we graduated, she became my wife. That's kind of like an all-American, kind of wonderful, cute little story. Yeah. So what happened when you and Marcia got married? That's time to start life. Yeah, we just started life.

You know, I'm an entrepreneur by spirit. That's how God wired me. Started my first company at 14 or 15. And when I got out of college, got a job with Scott Paper and my plan was to use them to learn more about business so that I could be a more successful entrepreneur. And- Is that Scott Paper's in the toilet paper?

Yeah. Yeah, Scott Paper, it's rough and tough. Kimberly Clark now. Yeah, but Scott Paper's in the toilet paper? Yeah. Yeah, Scott Paper, it's rough and tough. Kimberly Clark now. Yeah, but Scott Paper was like, back when I was in school, was the worst toilet paper on earth. Yeah. It was like, it's rough and tough

and doesn't take crap off anyone. Yeah. You can say that now that they're out of business. Yeah, okay, good. I don't think they ever were gonna sponsor the show, so I could, whatever. Yeah, all right. So you go to work for Scott Paper.

Went to work for Scott Paper Company. We got married, bought a house in Tulsa, Oklahoma. Cool town. I had an offer to get promoted to New York City. And we were young and thought that would be fun. It was a really, it was at Scott Paper Company. It was this young and thought that would be fun. It was a really it was it was a Scott Paper Company. It was this I worked on the commercial side. So we would we didn't do toilet paper as much as things that businesses use to operate. And bought

our first house got this opportunity to move to New York City, which was kind of an opportunity to take about 10 leaps off the corporate ladder. If you survive that, that was a testing ground to see if you had what it takes to move, move on up. So I was excited about that and went on a trip there, came back. And when I got home, she's like, I've got some news for you. I'm pregnant. It's like, Oh, oh, that changes things. So we thought about it and just said, gosh, if I am gonna be successful in this world, I'm gonna always be required to live

in the biggest markets in the world. And is that the life we want for our family? We decided no, so resigned from that and started over. But we had our first child there in Tulsa and then moved back to Borger where her family was from and had opportunity to help her father run a beer distributorship that he had. And that's where our second child was born. What was it like running a beer distributorship and really conservative panhandle of Texas

in those days? Well, it was another part of the... The beer that everybody drinks, by the way. Back then, you know, it was, he had one of the first distributor ships that was opened up back when they, you know, back when Coors was kind of the most majestic beer brand in the world, they only sold in Colorado.

And so when he opened his distributor ship, he was one of the only places outside of Colorado where you could buy Coors. You could not get it east of the Mississippi River. It's smoking the bandit. The smoking the bandits about that very thing, which is odd, but yeah. Yeah.

So it was fun, but I will tell you, this was another kind of setback in me continuing to search out what I believe about life and who I am and what my place is in it and who created it all and what does that mean. But when he moved to Borger and they bought that beer distributorship like families do in the Bible Belt, they went to the church and were going to become members and they turned them away because of the business he was in and that really wounded them and That kind of just affirmed other kind of things that had happened like that through my life this is not something I want to do so I went further away and

Yeah, so That goes on. And then at some point you guys move up to Oregon, right? So I want to, I want to start a business. I want to live it. The first year after, after my freshman year to keep some of us that were inclined to get in trouble from getting fat and, and them having to bail us out of the county jail, our coach would send us on to go with him

to do wrestling camps. And we'd start in San Diego and all the way up the West Coast. And the first time I saw the Pacific Northwest, I was like, why did my family stop in Muleshrew, Texas? This is beautiful. Like, Tennessee is beautiful. And then you get to the Pandanel. It's not.

Like, why didn't you think, let's keep going till we find something that looks like what we came from? And, uh, I know why, because they had a stolen horse and that was punishable by death in those days and they were looking for a place with nobody. I think it was probably cause it was flat. Okay. If you're, if you're migrating across the country and you find a flat spot, that's probably a good, that's a pretty good place. Um, but yeah, we moved, uh, we moved to Oregon and started a small business there. And which was we bought the rights for Schlotzky's deli.

I don't know if you're familiar with a double meat original. Yeah, it's the best sandwich ever made. But our plan was to to leverage that into commercial real estate business. We wanted to buy the land and buildings that we occupied. If we could have those those restaurants be successful for 10 years, we would own those properties outright. And then we could migrate into commercial real estate. Two years after we got there,

we finally had a chance to take a vacation. Like, you know, we were grinding 24 seven trying to get two kids, right? Two little kids, three and four years old. And we had met some friends there that took us on a surfing trip down to Baja California. And right before we went, my wife had gotten some like a tumor on her tongue is like a ulcer, but it didn't go away. And they have gotten those that are here. They bother you, but if it doesn't ever go away, you're like, what's going on? So she'd gone to the doctor and it's like, we think it's a food allergy. I didn't eat for five years in college and she was skinny and athletic and we loved to

eat. So we didn't take that very seriously being our age. And it just seemed to when she would do the diet, it would kind of ease back and when she wouldn't, it would...so she thought that's what it was. And then it bothered her so much that she started adhering to the diet and then it didn't have any effect on it. So right before we go on this trip, she goes to the doctor and they do a biopsy. Back then, we had just gotten answer machines. like we didn't have a voicemail or

anything yet. So we get back home and your answer machine lights bleeping and we listen to them and one of them's from the doctor saying we got your biopsy back. You need to come in. So we go in. It's a bad thing. Yeah, you hate those 30 years old. We don't know. I mean we I don't think I don't think anything can kill me. Nobody gets sick at 30 years old, we don't know. I mean, we I don't think I don't think anything can kill me. Nobody gets sick at 30. You're both healthy. Life is good.

Yeah. Yeah. So we went in and they tell us it's cancer. And again, I don't think it registered with us like the like what that really means. Again, I think it was our age. We've had a lot of people suffer from cancer and pass away from cancer in our family. So I know how dangerous it is, just not dangerous at 30.

And so we start this journey of all the horrible things they do to you to try to help you overcome cancer. Really three things, they either poison you to the verge of death, hoping that it dies before you do burn it out or cut it out. And they did all three of those things. They either poison you to the verge of death hoping that it dies before you do, burn it out or cut it out. And they did all three of those things. And two years from the date after she was diagnosed, she passed away. And now a few messages from our generous sponsors. But first, Now, a few messages from our generous sponsors, but first, I want to play you this really awesome voicemail that we got from one of our premium members, Donald Fry.

My name is Don Fry. I pastor two small member churches south of Atlanta. I first heard about Army and Normal folks when Bill was interviewed by Kira Davis on her podcast in June of 2023. When Bill started saying that the podcast would feature stories about normal people who identified a need and then were doing extraordinary things in their communities and beyond to meet them, it had my immediate attention. I think John Ponder may have been the first episode that I listened to, but I was immediately hooked. I loved the long interview format. I feel like we're

all just sitting around a kitchen table talking together. You know, as a pastor, I'm always on the lookout for stories of redemption and people reaching the forgotten in our society. I've used a number of stories as illustrations and sermons and lessons, such as Rodney Smith and his lawn mowing, as well as Luke Mickelson and his beds for kids. But probably the biggest thing I did was I gave a sermon called, Don't Be a Turkey Christian, following the themes from Bill's short Thanksgiving episode this past year. I became a premium member because to me, I don't consider it as supporting Army of Normal folks as a podcast, but instead I see it as contributing to the start of a

movement that we so desperately need if we're ever gonna fix the problems that we face as a nation. And I want to be part of that army. So I gotta be honest with you when I hear Donald's comments that we just shared with you, I get a little chill up my spine frankly because Donald that is exactly what we're trying to do. Sure we're trying to create a piece of entertainment that is interesting that'll make you laugh hopefully on occasion when I'm accidentally humorous and funny and maybe tug on your heartstrings and you know there's got to be entertainment value so people will listen but the overarching idea is create a movement of people that don't care about who you are

where you're from or what you're, but are celebrating the good that we can do for one another, our communities. And to hear Donald say that he's used some of our thoughts in his sermons and that he is pushing the narrative of the Army of Normal Folks podcast, but also the movement out into this community is just phenomenal. And I'm more than grateful for folks like Donald.

So if any of you would be open to becoming a premium member of the Army as well and help us build this movement please visit normalfolks.us. And if you'd be interested in leaving us a voicemail as well about why you're a member of the Army and how it's impacted you, make sure to call the Badger Hotline named after our boy Badger, the truck driver, who recommended we set it up. The number is 901-352-1366. Guys, we're not just trying to entertain you,

we're trying to interact with you. Call us, email us, let us know what's on your mind, and we will respond. We'll be right back. Hello, from Wondermedia Network, I'm Jenny Kaplan, host of Womanica, a daily podcast that introduces you to the fascinating lives of women history has forgotten. This month, we're bringing you the stories of athletes. There's the Italian race car driver who courted danger and became the first woman to compete

in Formula One. The sprinter who set a world record and protested racism and discrimination in the U.S. and around the world in the 1960s. The diver who was barred from swimming clubs due to her race and went on to become the first Asian-American woman to win an Olympic medal. She won gold twice. The mountaineer, known in the Chinese press as the tallest woman in the world. And the ancient Greek charioteer, who exploited a loophole to become the first-ever woman to compete at the Olympic Games. Listen to Wamanica on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Last season, millions tuned into the Betrayal podcast to hear a shocking story of deception. I'm Andrea Gunning, and now we're sharing an all-new story of betrayal. Stacey thought she had the perfect husband. Doctor, father, family man. It was the perfect cover for Justin Rutherford to hide behind. It led me into the house and I mean it was like a movie. He was sitting at our kitchen table. The cops were guarding him. Stacey learned how far her husband would go to save himself.

I slept with a loaded gun next to my bed. You not just say I wish he was dead, you actually gave details and explained different scenarios on how to kill him. He to me is scarier than Jeffrey Dahmer. Listen to Betrayal on the iHeart radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Coming live only on Hulu. Don't miss. Big Sean. Camila Cabello. Doja Cat. Gwen Stefani. Hozier. Keith Urban.

New Kids on the Block. Paramore. Shaboosie. The Black Crows. Thomas Rhett. Victoria Monet. And more. Get tickets to our 2024 iHeartRadio Music Festival,

presented by Capital One right now, before they sell out. At AXS.com. I just, I had, it was just such a, like everything clouded and collapsed on me at one time. It was everything that I thought I believed about the world wasn't true. I couldn't outwork this. I couldn't help her through that journey. the world wasn't true. I could not work this. I couldn't help her through that journey.

If it's to be, it's up to me. That no longer holds true. False God. You wanted to live more than anything in the world and it was not up to you. Nope. So not only do you lose your wife and you have this business you're trying to grow

and now a five and six year old boy, you're also at a personal crisis of identity and what you believed in your whole life. Yeah, yeah, it was the perfect storm. So how'd you handle it? In the worst way possible. What I remember about it is I remember after that happened, our families had sacrificed so much to care for us through that journey that I just wanted them to go home and start their life back. So I sent everybody home. go home, live your life.

I'm good, I got it. And secondly, anything that has anything to do with cancer, get the hell out of my house. That's all I remember. And then I started experiencing things that were really foreign to me. I had lost the flavor of life. Never, I don't know what that means,

but I couldn't get up in the morning. I didn't want to do anything. I couldn't even- You mean depression. I didn't know what that was. But that's what it was. I just thought I was dying. It feels like you're suffocating internally,

but it's never happened to me. I don't know what it is. We're 2,000 miles away from home. I've experienced an awful lot of physical pain. It's not fun. Wrestling. Well, yeah, fighting and wrestling and... Doing what meatheads do in college that are scholarships.

Meathead, amateur, boys do. But I've never experienced emotional pain like that. Like I would take a punch in the nose any day over having that, your heartbreak. And yeah, I didn't know how to deal with it. So how were your boys? How? How were they handling it? Yeah, I don't know. That's tough too.

Yeah, I think that part of it is for all of us, it was surreal. It was like, I don't know that, I think it took a long time to come to grips with what had just really happened. And I think that was probably more so with them. They hadn't ever experienced somebody die that they loved. So I think it just took a long time for that to set in. And it probably set in in different stages and manifested those feelings and emotions in different times and ways.

But I wasn't healthy enough to... I mean, I was in a very, very dark place, which crushes me. You know, two things about that other than the tragedy itself that crushed me is I was raised that character was one of the things a man was supposed to possess, and that character reveals itself when things get hard, not when things are easy. And when things got hard, I crumbled. So I'm not who I thought I was. I'm a fraud.

That's hard. To have not been able to demonstrate that character at a time where my kids needed me the most. That's just that it's just that destroys me. It destroyed me. And the way that manifests is I self-medicated in the way that I knew how to hurt other people. I didn't know what to do. I just stayed in the house and then my friends would come pick me up and I would never go out with them. and one night they did and we went out Somebody said something and I was just like a ticking time like I don't even know what happened I just punched him and it's like for the first time

That pain went away for a minute It's like I want to do that again Because of the adrenaline I don't know I don't know what the physiological response was, but that emotional. So you get in a bar fight and it's the first time you feel good since your wife dies? Yeah. Oh, that's dangerous. It felt really good. Especially for a guy who's learned his whole life how to fight pretty well.

Felt really good. Wow. So... What does it make you feel like today knowing that that felt really good then? Man, it's just so scary that apart from Christ, the things that we'll draw to to try to navigate through life are so destructive, and they always start out appearing like they're not because of how they make you feel in the beginning. That sums up the word temptation. Yeah, and it's just, you know,

especially if you don't have a faith, if you don't have a real profound faith, then we don't have that internal GPS that if you make a wrong turn, it says recalculating and get back on the right road. It's like without that GPS, you just keep making wrong turns. And next thing you know, you're in a place that you couldn't imagine.

You and I are cut from the same cloth. One of the things I talk about so much all the time in speeches and all is having a compass. And then if you got an airplane in DC, flew all the way around the world back to DC, and your compass was off only three degrees, by the time you got back to DC, you would actually end up north of Nova Scotia. Three degrees.

And without that compass, with a true deuce setting, you will end up so far off course you don't even know where you are in your life. And that's what you're saying. Yep. That's what's been true in my life. And then, of course, I have the privilege now of walking with people that find themselves in places, in dark places that they can't see a path forward. And I see that same story play out. It's consistent. It's the same story manifests in different ways for different reasons, but it's the same story play out. It's consistent. It's the same story, manifests in different ways for different reasons, but it's the same story.

So you hit this dude, you get the fight and you briefly feel good. That means you're going to go do it again. I want as much of that as I can get. So the next night. I don't know if it was the next night, but it was, and it was everywhere. If you pulled in front of me on the road. I'm on you. Yeah. But the next-

So you think your depression became rage and the rage actually became an outlet to offset the sickness of the depression inside your own body. I was searching for a way to self-medicate. And I don't and it was rage at this point. At this point. Yeah, I needed to feel better. I was suffocating and just the same way

that you would fight for a breath. If somebody was choking you. I was fighting for I was fighting for something that would allow me to breathe for a minute. Gosh, that's profound. And the only thing that worked is when I heard other people. Okay. No, not proud of that. So maybe not the next night, but shortly after that first back at the same bar, we get in a big bar fight.

It spills out in the parking lot. Police are on their way. So I jump in a car with some people fleeing. And I didn't know. You jumped in a car? Really? Yeah. Just jumped in the back seat of a car that was flying

through the parking lot trying to get away. And unfortunately, it were Mexican mafia running cocaine up and down the West Coast. And they took me back to their apartment I'd never seen cocaine before but I'm out. Yeah you're in a bar fight you hear the cops are coming you jump in a random car and you end up in the apartment of Mexican drug mafia cartel people

That's almost, Hollywood wouldn't write that because it's almost too insane. That happens. Meanwhile, you have a business and two children at home. You are spiraling, bro. Yeah. So you said you'd never seen cocaine before? No, but I did it that night. And like hurting other people, it gave me a relief, but it

lasted and I don't have to hurt other people. And I could do it over and over again. So cocaine's good. It was till it wasn't. What did that look like? Oh, yeah. Well, we've seen it happen unfortunately in too many people's lives, but it is utter, I think it, if it's hell, I mean, if hell is the absence of God, then that's what that is. The absence of anything good. Do you lose your kids? No.

Do you lose your kids? No. Do you lose your business? Yeah. A bit well, not through that, but eventually. So take me through kind of that, how that worked. What happened? Well, I continued, I was alone, so nobody knew. Oh, so the family back home. Yeah. I get it. Nobody knew. And of course, like anything you're not proud Oh, so the family back home. Yeah. I get it.

Nobody knew. And of course, like anything you're not proud of, you're hiding it probably. Oh gosh. And then you become a liar because just part and parcel with addiction is deception. You have to live that life. I hate to drink, but you can't do cocaine and not drink

because at some point you have to stop. And the only way you can stop and calm down is you have to use something to sedate you, to slow you down. And so this- Well, it's either a speed ball and heroin or alcohol. Something to counter. At some time after three or four days, you have to stop.

And some, you have to use- Three or four days? You would do this stuff for three or four days you have to stop and some you have to use three or four days you would do this stuff for three or four days straight i don't could you even sleep no no you know how's your body functioned i don't know i mean unfortunately a lot i mean we lose a hundred thousand men and women in this country every day to overdose. And God just spared me from that because there's no way. So your family doesn't know until I guess they do. Until they do. And then, you know, I went to rehab jumped out of the window the first night. And then they did an intervention and said, if you don't take this seriously, and don't do it because you want to do it, not because we're forcing you, we're taking the kids.

And I wouldn't have lived. I was on the precipice anyway. And as sick as it is, I love my kids deeply, even though that was, even though you couldn't have told it by how I was living my life. And if, and if, if they weren't in my life, I would have lost everything. So I went. And now a few messages from our generous sponsors, but first, I hope you'll consider signing up to join the Army at NormalFolks.us. By signing up, you'll receive a weekly email with short episode summaries in case you happen to miss an episode or if you prefer reading about our incredible guests.

We'll be right back. Hello, from Wonder Media Network, I'm Jenny Kaplan, host of Womanica, a daily podcast that introduces you to the fascinating lives of women history has forgotten. This month, we're bringing you the stories of athletes. There's the Italian race car driver who courted danger and became the first woman to compete in Formula One. The sprinter who set a world record and protested racism and discrimination in the US and around the world in the 1960s. The diver who was barred from swimming clubs due to her race

and went on to become the first Asian-American woman to win an Olympic medal. She won gold twice. The mountaineer, known in the Chinese press as the tallest woman in the world. And the ancient Greek charioteer who exploited a loophole to become the first ever woman to compete at the Olympic Games. Listen to Wamanica on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Last season, millions tuned into the Betrayal podcast to hear a shocking story of deception.

I'm Andrea Gunning, and now we're sharing an all-new story of betrayal. Stacey thought she had the perfect husband. Doctor, father, family man. It was the perfect cover for Justin Rutherford to hide behind. They led me into the house and I mean it was like a movie. He was sitting at our kitchen table. The cops were guarding him. Stacey learned how far her husband would go to save himself. I slept with a loaded gun next to my bed.

He did not just say, I wish he was dead. He actually gave details and explained different scenarios on how to kill him. He, to me, is scarier than Jeffrey Dahmer. Listen to Betrayal on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Don't miss Big Sean, Camila Cabello, Doja Cat, Gwen Stefani, Hozier, Keith Urban, New Kids on the Block, Paramore, Shaboosie, The Black Crows, Thomas Rhett, Victoria Monet, and more.

Get tickets to our 2024 iHeartRadio Music Festival presented by Capital One right now before they sell out at AXS.com. They put me on a suicide watch. Were you suicidal? I don't. Well, I was I was trying to be suicided by somebody I wouldn't have done. But I mean, were you cognitively looking for ways to kill yourself, even though your lifestyle was going to kill you? If somebody would have shot me, I would have been grateful.

Wow. Like I didn't care. But I don't think I would have done it myself. But I wouldn't have thought I'd have done any of that stuff. I have no idea. I just wouldn't participate and I wouldn't eat. And so they put me on suicide watch. Got it.

And so I went on a hunger strike for a while and then they were worried about me. So they sent a couple of guys down. Well, a former wrestler knows how to go on hunger strike, but he, he ain't done it before. Scared them. Scared them. I've done that. I had to make weight 10 times of my life.

I'm not worried about this. So they sent a couple of guys down to talk to me. And one, I think when you get sober, well, for me, when you get sober, the hardest part is the shame. The shame was way worse than getting sober. The shame that follows the sobriety is the thing that will send you right back where you came from. Because you're now aware of what you've done and it's so ugly and you have to face that. If it's to be, it's up to me.

Same game, that thing has to be keep playing over and over in your head. I wrestle with that demon to this day. And when you love, think about, I watch your documentary and you run so hard caring for and loving for and trying to make the difference that needs to happen for those young men.

And if you outrun God in that, it's equally, it's just another deception. It becomes another self God. Bro, man, do I know that? And do I know you can outrun your family too? Yeah. And that's equally, I mean, not- Well, if you're outrunning your family, you're outrunning God.

That's what I was, that's well put. Yeah. Right. And I do that all the time. Balance is tough. Yeah. Following Christ is tough. The balance happens if you put Him first.

So these two guys, who are they? One of them was a doctor that had started writing his own prescriptions to himself, and another one was an attorney that just started drinking beer when he would come home after work, and it turned into drinking beer when he woke up for breakfast. But in the end, they were good, normal people that wound up in a bad place and they were not better yet, but they were better than when they came. I was like, well crap, now that I've seen it,

if they can do it, I can do it. And so I started participating because I saw guys that were demonstrating that they could rebuild their life. I didn't believe that was possible for me. So I started participating that I believe it was the, may have been the first day or the second day after I started participating, they told me I need to go visit a spiritual counselor and I was like, no, you don't want me. Here's the thing, Bill, I didn't believe in God.

That's what I'm saying, it's bad. But I was pissed off at it. Well, how can you be pissed off at something that doesn't exist? You know, I remember after recovery, leaving Oregon, and as I was crossing into Idaho saying this prayer, thank you God for giving me a fresh start. I'm gonna go some ways and never speak of this again.

I'm starting a new life. I don't, there's no need to even revisit that. And of course he laughed because he didn't bring me through it not to share it and to leverage that to help other people that are struggling in that way and many other ways. Bro, the thing I find so interesting is what you just said, which is I didn't believe in God, but I was mad at him.

I know a lot of people like that. That's not uncommon. Okay, but here's the thing. You may hate God and you may be mad at him, but if you do have an emotional reaction to him, then in fact you do believe in him. You just don't want to. Yeah.

I think the seed of our creator is in us and we can deny it, but it doesn't mean it's not there. That's what I think that was. That is so interesting. Like in our own flesh, we can say we don't believe, but in us, there's this seed of our Creator that can't be denied. And so it's one of those things where our words don't match the reality.

Okay, so they say you got to go to a spiritual advisor. And the reason I said, oh man, is I can just imagine you, I've lost my wife, what kind of God can take my 30 year old mother of my children from me? I've lost my dignity because of what I've done to myself and the shame I'm experiencing. Declared losing my business that I've worked my butt off for. I've kind of lost my ethos because clearly,

if it is to be as up to me, it isn't completely true because I couldn't save my wife. And now, and now you want me to go to talk to somebody who's gonna advise me about a deity that I've rejected my whole life. And if I do believe in them, all I have for them is disdain. That's where you were. Yep.

Cool. So. As Providence would have it, if it was a man, I probably, it probably would have been if what was the counselor? I see that I had that level of animosity and anger that it might have just gotten physical. But as Providence would have it, it was about an 80 year old, beautiful, sweet little lady that had like eyes that glowed like you couldn't have animus towards this beautiful lady. Angel. Yeah. And I wasn't ready to hear it, but I listened.

And I remember the next two nights in my room trying to find a path forward and I couldn't. Every scenario that came up in my mind is like, there's no coming back from this. And so her words kept ringing in my head and the second night I just couldn't come up with an answer. And I fell on my knees and said, God, I don't know if you're real or not, but if you are, I quit. That's it. That's it. Now I'm likely to just totally lose it now because what happened right then was I died and was born again right there. I was in rehab. I tortured my children. My children had been tortured and lost everything and I had this, I couldn't stop smiling if I tried. I was not the same person.

I have no, words can't describe what happened. Do you think it's that you were able to just lay it all at his feet? No, I think that I died and was born again that day. I think what it says that it's no longer that I live, he lives in me. And yeah, I think part of that is that it's no longer I that live, but He lives in me. And yeah, I think part of that is Him taking it, but that person that was there before that prayer wasn't there anymore. This isn't who I am.

I know who I am. I'm the most selfish. Like I know who I was before Him, and I'm not that person anymore. But it's who I am. So what's the difference? It's him living through me, not me. I got to be really careful because that person still is under the surface. That's that quiet little voice, those things that chirp on your shoulders every day.

It doesn't go away. It just loses power. But there's this war. It's not a battle of flesh and blood, but against principalities. And that war doesn't stop, but you're now born again. He can't snatch you now.

You can get detracted and fall back and do all kinds of things, but you are now his. Do things still happen in your life today? This is completely curious. Do things still happen in your life today? This is completely curious. Do things still happen in your life today? Do you feel that tinge and where you could rip somebody's head off?

Yes. Oh, yes. Really? Yes. I have to work on it all the time. I have to surrender every day. The gospel's a daily thing. I have to die on it all the time. I have to surrender every day. The gospel is a daily thing. I have to die again every day. And the days that I don't, the old part starts to resurface. And in the world that we've lived in, there's so much of that chaos and violence all around. I mean, I haven't been in a fight in a long time, so it doesn't

go there. But the part that triggers it is does it enter your mind? Do you give it space? That is such an amazing, profound lesson, what you just said to me. I've never heard anybody say it that way. And I'm having a hard time moving on your story to get past it because I'm absorbing it right now. But you're saying there's a war of principalities going on all the time inside of us, and the rebirth by virtue of your relationship with Christ and God is how you win that war. It's the only way.

The adversary will either, his mission statement's the same every day to steal, kill and destroy. That's it. You know who he is. And that doesn't change. And it can either be two ways. He can lull you into complacency where you're not effective and you're not a threat and you're also not availing any value to the kingdom. Or it can be catastrophic where he actually comes after you viscerally and tries to take you out. But they're both the same demon. One of them you're just breathing in a bunch of skin taking up space in this world and he's happy with that, too

so ultimately If your happiness your health Your Your existence on the earth is meant to be it's not up to me Not at all. I mean, the only role I have to play into this is to surrender every day. And if you surrender, that fosters in obedience.

And it's not the work that you do, it's a natural byproduct of it. It's what flows from it. And I think that's hard for a doer, is that I want my obedience to be something I do, not a byproduct of surrender. And that concludes part one of my conversation with Darren Babcock,

and you do not want to miss part two, that's now available as you'll hear about the extraordinary fruits that have resulted from Darren's surrendering control. Together guys, we can change this country, but it starts with you. I'll see you in part two. Hello, from Wondermedia Network, I'm Jenny Kaplan, host of Womanica, a daily podcast that introduces you to the fascinating lives of women history has forgotten. Who doesn't love a sports story? The rivalries, the feats of strength and stamina. But these tales go beyond the podium.

There's the teen table tennis champ, the ice skater who earned a medal and a medical degree, and the sprinter fighting for Aboriginal rights. Listen to a manica on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Back in 96, Atlanta was booming with excitement around hosting the Centennial Olympic Games. And then, a deranged zealot willing to kill for a cause lit a fuse that would change my life and so many others forever. Rippling out for generations. Listen to Flashpoint starting July 25th on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Our iHeartRadio Music Festival, presented by Capital One, September 20th and 21st. T-Mobile Arena here in Las Vegas. Stream live only on Hulu. Don't miss Big Sean, Camila Cabello, Togecat, Dua Lipa, Gwen Stefani, Halsey, Hozier, Keith Urban, New Kids on the Block, Paramore, Shaboosie, The Black Crows, Thomas Redd, Victoria Monet, and more. Buy tickets now at AXS.com.