An Army of Normal Folks - Don Wettrick: 21st Century Learning (Pt 1)

Episode Date: June 11, 2024

Don is on the frontlines of challenging our broken 20th century education system with 21st century innovations. As a teacher, he brought unheard of things like “Genius Time” and “open-source learning” to his classroom. And his latest innovation is the StartedUp Foundation, which has helped Indiana teachers engage over 6,000 students with the most elite entrepreneurship pitch competition!Support the show: https://www.normalfolks.us/premiumSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

But they have gotten to be so savvy. We've had several kids this year as they were going through their slides and they'd show a graph on expenses and like here's basically a snapshot of our expenses. I'd love to go into more detail in Q&A. They're baiting the judges to ask what is wrong with that? I love it. It's, again, you watching like I am stupid.

At this age, I was trying to impress my girlfriend, who thank God is my wife now, but like, you go like, what? Welcome to an army of normal folks. I'm Bill Courtney. I'm a normal guy, a husband, a father, an entrepreneur, and I've been a football coach in inner city Memphis

and that last part somehow it led to an Oscar for the film about our team called Undefeated. Guys, I believe our country's problems will never be solved by a bunch of fancy people in nice suits using big words that nobody ever uses on CNN and Fox, but rather by an army of normal folks, us, just you and me deciding, you know what, I can help. That's what Don Wetrick, the voice we just heard, has done. Don is without a doubt one of the most innovative teachers I've ever met bringing things I've never heard of like Genius Time and open source learning to his

classroom and his latest innovation the Started Up Foundation which has helped Indiana teachers engage over 6,000 students with the most elite entrepreneurship pitch competition. I cannot wait for you to meet Don right after these brief messages from our generous sponsors. When the Taliban banned music in Afghanistan, millions were plunged into silence. Radios were smashed, cassettes burned. You could be beaten or jailed or killed for breaking the rules. And yet, Afghans did it anyway. This is the story of how a group of people brought music back to Afghanistan

by creating their own version of American Idol. The danger they endured. They said my head should be cut off. The joy they brought to the nation. You're free completely. No one is there to destroy you. Free completely. No one is there to destroy you. Azmazarjan, Kulajanim Umde.

I'm John Legend. Listen to Afghan Star on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. My simple solution to the problem was remove people from the scene and help them feel safer. In response to attacks against Asian Americans, Maddie Park raised over $250,000 to donate cab rides to the Asian community.

There is so much more work to be done. We really need to come together and tackle this issue as a community. Support the Asian community. Learn how at lovehasnolabels.com. Brought to you by Love Has No Labels and the Ad Council. Welcome to season nine of Next Question with me, Katie Hurick. It is 2024, and we're gonna get through this together, folks.

My campaign promise to all of you, here on Next Question, it's going to be a good time the whole time, we hope. I have some big news to share with you on our season premiere featuring Kris Jenner, who's got some words of wisdom for me on being a good grandmother or, in her case, a good lovey. You know, you start thinking of what you want your grandmother name to be, like, are they going to call me grandma like I called my grandmother?

So I got to choose my name, which is now Lovey. I'll also be joined by Hillary Clinton, Renee Flemming, Liz Cheney, to name a few. So come on in and take a break from the incessant negativity for a weekly dose of fascinating conversations. Some of them, I promise, will actually put you in a good mood. I loved it. Your energy and joy.

I'm squeezing every minute I can for you out of this season of Next Question. Last question, I promise you have to go. I have to go. But it's been so fun. And I can't wait for you to hear it. Listen to Next Question with me, Katie Couric, on the iHeart Radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. podcast. Don wet trick. Welcome to Memphis. Hey, I my feet are off of Beale. I don't I tried to listen to Bill. I think it is.

Right. Do you really feel the way I feel? Yeah. Well, um, am I am tonight? Yeah, that's like that. Son, are you a Christian? Yeah, yeah, we could do, I am tonight. Yeah. Thanks. The son of your Christian. Yeah, we could do the blue suede shoes thing and everything else. So, um, you just flew in this today from Indy and good old Indianapolis. Yeah. Uh, we're going to get to the started up foundation, which is your world today. Yes. But something you and I have in common is we were teachers. And I was a school teacher and a football coach

right out of college when I started life. And I was that candidly because when I grew up as a kid, my cool teachers and coaches were really the positive people in my life and that's why I wanted to be one. And so when I say you're a teacher, I say that with an enormous amount of respect because I think it's a way underappreciated, undervalued and underpaid profession

and people don't do it to get rich. They do it because it's a calling. They get life rich in a lot of cases, but thank you. Yeah, some can I guess, but not many. But anyway, so tell us how you grew up. Tell us just a little bit about your background. Actually, it's the reason why I do what I do is because I think deep down inside,

the only thing I've ever really wanted to be is my dad. He's great. Love my mom too and my sister, who was also an educator, but it really started is that, so I had the first degree and that my mom and dad paid for it, which was nice. Although in 1995, it wasn't that bad, right? Love you, mom and dad.

But, um. Where'd you go to school? Ball State. Got it. David Letterman U. Yeah, sure. And so about a year after I graduated, I again, I started to long for a purpose.

The first job I have, I won't get into what profession it was, but I wasn't fulfilled. Let's just put it that way. And I called my mom and dad and like, hey, I just wanna let you know, I'm not looking for money. I'm married at this point,

as I'm not looking for money, but I think I'm gonna go back to school and get my teaching license. And my dad, who I mean that he does not complain. My dad does not say anything mean about him. But it's strange how noble this guy is. This guy, my dad is. Sorry. But he took a deep breath and he's like, because again, he's he's been in education for a long time. Oh, he's yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. More on that and on what he taught.

OK, we're going gonna bond over that. But he goes, um, you know, I don't care if you teach for the next 20 years, don't teach one year 20 times. Huh? And that meant nothing to me until year two. And then it meant everything to me. Yeah, because I could tell that if I got into this routine, it was not going to have as much meaning for me. Sure as heck wasn't going to have as much meaning for my students. And so the longer I taught the more of those.

That's, that's interesting. If you're going to teach 20 years, don't teach the same thing 20 times. Yeah. 20 times and meaning gets stagnant, boring and effect and, and then busily ineffective. Right. Well, I, I'm not going to name names, but I remember there was one teacher that I knew and then he was and I mean, this is like 1997, right? But like this person was still getting his year out from the closet and you weren't allowed to write on the Ditto's. I said, Ditto's the member when like in that you could be like,

like kind of get a buzz off the Ditto. So yeah, but he like this guy,, you weren't allowed to write on it because he didn't want to copy it again. And so that's when it dawned on me, and my dad's talking about that. And he would always complain. This is also when I had a really hard time keeping my mouth shut.

But this guy was complaining, like, oh, the kids don't even respect my class in my head. Because you're boring the hell out of them. I'm like, you don't respect your class, exactly the kids don't even respect my class in my head. Because you're boring the hell out of them. I'm like, you don't respect your class, exactly. You don't even respect your own class. What'd your dad teach? Oh, shop. Shop, really?

Let me fanboy out. I love it. Let me fanboy out that you got to interview one of my, one of my, hmm, micro. So my dad taught shop. I gotta tell a story from the story because I listened to, first of all, Mike Rowe. So my dad taught shop. I gotta tell a story from the story because I listened to, first of all, I love your podcast. I'm honored to be on it.

So I heard you interview Mike. And so he came to Indianapolis and he did a thing with a group called Strata. It's a nonprofit. And so they had a break and they're like, hey, you're allowed to have your book signed by Mike. And they're like, the handlers were like, listen, don't take selfies and don't.

Yeah, go fast. Like, yeah, go fast. And so anyway, Mike had been talking about when we started getting rid of shop class was, it hurt education really bad. So I couldn't help it. He's right. Oh, absolutely.

So I get in the line, I'm like, I'm like looking around and I go, he gets my book, I go, I know I'm supposed to talk, but my dad was a shop teacher. And then they put him in the guidance department. And then the guidance department, and then they told him to start shutting down the shop department.

And he was listening to this and he looked up and his Mike Vora voice, he goes, like Jesus carrying his own cross. Oh my gosh, get me another book. And he signed a book to my dad. And of course, like, again, you're not supposed to talk. You're supposed to keep learning. And I still, I got off the phone. I took the selfie. I couldn't help it. So my dad's got a book to my dad. And of course, like, again, you're not supposed to talk. You're supposed to keep learning. And I still, I got off the phone.

I took the selfie. So my dad's got a signed book. I would argue that two of the saddest days in education were when shop went away and civics went away. Civics was a class that we all used to have to take. And today, and shop went away and civics went away. Civics was a class that we all used to have to take. And today many of our young people don't even understand how our government works and therefore lack so much civility

and understanding of our representative form of government because they've never been taught how we civically exist. Or the appreciation of what we currently have. Yeah, or that too. Yeah. That's not why we're here, but that's fun. So box for no, no, no, I'll give them one more last bit of family thing. Because I agree to that.

And also the appreciation. So my mom was a stay at home mom, which makes her an educator. My dad was an educator. And so I traveled by pickup truck and pop upup camper. I was gonna say that means very blue collar-ish existence, socioeconomically. You live below your means, but I am so I'm life rich because I mean we traveled. And so growing up with going to KOA and Yogi Bear campgrounds, I knew how kids from the south acted. I knew how kids up in Minnesota didn't talk as much. Like, and I got a,

I got a cultural education. So anyway, I'm really proud of how I was raised. And yeah, it had a deep, profound effect on me and how I taught. Clearly because you decided I want to do that. So you get a job teaching. Yeah. Where?

Greenwood, Indiana. Well, actually I take that. I'm not sure if I should talk about it. Well, for six months I took over, I won't say the name of the school because now it may be rude, but a woman had a nervous breakdown as I heard, and I took over for her.

So my first one semester was at another school. And then I went to Greenwood my first full year teaching middle school language arts. And what was your, I remember my first year teaching. What was that like for you? Uh, man, if this was a longer podcast, we had two very tragic and weird things happen at the school within the first month of school.

And then the teachers were like, it's never like this. We don't hope, we had, I mean, not like one student's dad beat his wife to death. Oh God. Except she lived. I don't want to give too much information, but like, yeah, it that and then we had another kid that had some issues and enough to, you know, make the news kind of thing. So. Wow.

Yeah. And like, as your first year teacher, this is my first month. Well, welcome to the job. Yeah. And at the same time, it also, I don't know, like I've always gravitated towards students that were like me. And so, which is a C and D, you know, like I wasn't a great student until my sophomore year of high school and my parents begged and pleaded with me. Again, they're so nice that they could have threatened me, I

guess, but please. And so yeah Yeah, yeah, yeah. So yeah, in my first year, I started finding my soft spot. And that's the other thing is like, I remember doing my student teaching, I'm like, I'll never teach middle school. And that was the first job offer I got. And I'm like, I'm never going to leave middle school. And I did that for 10 years. That's funny. My first job was teaching middle school and a middle school homeroom teacher which was so much fun. That was actually the best

15 minutes of my life every single day. Don't you miss the beginning of school when they were excited? Like middle schoolers are like maybe it's different now but they were excited to talk to me especially after the summer break. Mr. Rettrick and they tell me what they did over the summer. Yeah. Then when I transferred to the high school, they were way too cool. But middle school, I mean, yeah, and it was just a lot of fun. So you evolved as a teacher and that evolution led to, I think if I fill in the blanks for me, but I think as you evolved, you also watched a Ted Talk that spoke to you

in terms of that evolution, which changed everything for you. Yeah. I mean, is that accurate? That's the 100% of the origin story. So kind of do that. Yeah, I still have this email, a friend of mine during my lunch period,

this said, you gotta watch this. And it was a link, it was a Ted Talk, and it was Daniel Pink. For those watching at home or listening at home, you should listen to it. And he goes in there, talks about what motivates people. First of all, I'd seen it before. And in preparation of your arrival, I watched it again about two hours ago.

And it may have been more impactful the second time I watched it than the first time I watched it. Why don't you just talk a little bit about it as well? Sure. He goes into what motivates people and he talks about how I think, Atlassian was among the first. And then Google made it famous for their Google time. And that was 20% time, right? So, 20% of your work week, i.e. one day a week, you could learn whatever you wanted to learn. But Google was really in the infancy of their company,

and they just wanted to know, like, what are you taking away? Like, what are you learning? So, as they basically said you know Google Maps, Gmail all came out of this Google time. So I'm watching it and he starts talking again like he talks about mastery, autonomy and purpose. That was the big thing. Mastery. We are all designed to want to master something whether that is beating the final boss at Super Mario Galaxy or doing a kickflip. Autonomy. Would you please leave me alone for a little bit so I can work on this, cause this is important to me.

And then purpose, this is important to me. And as I'm watching it during my lunch period, I'm like, okay, mastery, school does that. Although autonomy and purpose is up to question, especially purpose. So- Well, I would argue especially autonomy too. Shut down, shut up, do your homework, I would argue, especially autonomy to shut down, shut up. Yeah. Do your homework.

Yeah. Raise your hand. Ask her the bathroom. Do your homework. Be graded on that. Be penalized if you don't. I mean, really, a student is very non-autonomous position. Unless it's unless it's a group project and you're the one that actually gives a darn. Right. Well, that's right.

But yeah, 90% of school is not group projects, right? Right. So the point is you're watching this and you're and to be creative, measured against incentive and disincentive, incentive for doing well, disincentive for not doing well, which he calls carrot and stick, as it pertains to a new management, 21st century management business model.

He's really talking about business work in that Ted talk. But you said this applies to what I do every day. Or wanted to do more of. Yeah. So I taught at the time two different classes. One was a freshman language arts class and the other one, I had a kind of a department that we kind of created, and it was television broadcasting and documentary filmmaking. And so the master autonomy purpose

was definitely my FCTV stuff, right? This is when I was at Franklin Community High School. So FCTV definitely followed that pattern. But my freshmen, so by the way, I watched it during my lunch class, and because I immediately was like, so cool, when they get back the way, I watched it during my lunch class. And because I immediately was so cool, when they get back from lunch, I'm like, you got to watch this. And to be fair, for the average freshman, it was a

little dry. I liked it as an adult. My kids are like, okay, like, what do you, why did you show us to us? Like, what if I let you do work on whatever you want to work on on Friday? And they're like, you're gonna do 20% right. And they're like, was that mean? And I'm like, what do you want to do? And this is the most eye-opening thing. My A and B students were immediately in panic. Like, well, then how do I get an A? And my C and D students were like, are you serious?

Cause like, I'm going to do some stuff. Right. And then I had one smart ass, sorry, smart. Yeah. But he was like, he says, well, I want to do a sleep study. I love that kid. And so, but yeah, I want to know that guy. Well, so I was like my chest move. I go, you told it. So I had a TV studio. The part of the studio was like completely dark. I go, you should, like I'll get you a sleep mask and a pillow and a blanket. Let's data collect, see if it performed like it affects your performance rest of your school day. I bet your grades go up in periods five, six and seven. He's like, I was just trying to make you mad.

It did work. And so this was like right after spring break, which is the worst time to start anything new. Yeah, school's over. Right. They're ending. This was like right after spring break, which is the worst time to start anything new. Yeah, school's over. Right. They're ending. Right. But there was enough interest there that I asked my principal, could I start my own class?

Start a new class? New class. What are you going to call this thing? And that's just funny. He said that. He goes, sure. If there's a Daniel Pink course description in the state of Indiana catalog, then good. And you know that dumb and dumber scene where he's like, so you're saying I got a chance.

So you're saying there's a shot. And so I find this really vague, really vague course description. I think it was called a group discussion class. I think it's gone now. But I'm like, there it is. And there's a funnier story that I'm not sure if I wanna tell because I kind of twist the truth on how to get it done, but like,

hey, no, no, no, I'll go into that. He leaves. He, the principal, he was in between jobs and he was gonna be a principal. You told the new principal he had approved it? Yeah. Yeah. I caught you. Which was a blessing.

And this guy ended up being really nice over time. But when the school year started, he's like, who approved this? And I went, you? You maybe. And so he's like, listen, at Christmas break or winter break, it's over. And so it was a blessing because the kids started to like the class. And I said, hey man, let's be so awesome

that they can't ignore it. Let's be so awesome that there's no way that they wanna shut it down. And that was what rallied the troops. Meaning got the kids working. Absolutely, not all, not all. Again, this was an experimental weird class. Well, it's an experimental weird idea, which is, and so everybody can follow along, the

experimental weird idea comes from, and I hope I can explain this visually, the candle experiment, the candle experiment, which is you're shown a table up against a wall and you've got matches, a candle, and a container of tacks, thumb tacks. And the thing is you have to mount the candle to the wall The thing is you have to mount the candle to the wall and light it so that wax does not get to the table. Right. Right. I'm describing that right now.

You sure? I'm trying to do a visual verbally. And they incented some people with if you can do it quicker than everybody else, you're going to get a large sum of money. If you can do it. If you're one of the top 25 percent people that can figure it out, you're going to get another sum of money. And the ones who are last to get no money. And they said, go.

And people were trying to light the candle and Max and melt the wax and stick it to the wall, which of course the candle stuck, but then wax when you lit the candle dripped onto the table. People were trying to thumb tack the... And then some people spilled the tacks onto the table and used the container that the tacks were in, and they tacked that container to the wall and they put the candle in the container, lit the candle, the container stopped the wax from getting onto the table and used the container that the tacks were in and they tacked that container to the wall and they put the candle in the container, lit the candle, the container stopped the wax from getting to the table, right?

Yep. All right, so pretty much all of them eventually figured it out, but the weird thing is the ones that were incented or the incented ones actually took more time than the unincented ones, which flies in the face of conventional wisdom, which is higher incentives lead to better performance. And his argument is left to their own devices, allowing people to have autonomy to be creative and thoughtful and look at something rather than a rifle view.

Look at it from a wide-lens shotgun view. You see all kinds of possibilities and therefore are more creative, right? Yeah. And so you wanted to teach your students that concept. Yeah. However, I will say in a control group or like, you know, you're paid to be there for a day. That's one thing. When you have a legacy environment of, you said sit down and shut up, it's really, it's hard to think about. And now a few messages from our generous sponsors, but first I hope you'll consider becoming a premium member of the Army at NormalFolks.us. By becoming one for 10 bucks a month or $1,000 a year, you can get access to cool benefits

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This is the story of how a group of people brought music back to Afghanistan by creating their own version of American Idol. The danger they endured. They said my head should be cut off. The joy they brought to the nation. You're free completely. No one is there to destroy you. I'm John Legend. Listen to Afghan Star on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcast. never thought it could happen to them. But with changes in routines, distractions, or a sleeping child, it can happen to anyone. Parked cars get hot fast and can be deadly. So get it in your head.

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of Challenge Champion. Listen to MTV's official challenge podcast on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. ["Self-Graduation"] The first reaction was, how do I get an A? And when I told them that they would be self-grading, so like, we're talking like, what do you want to accomplish?

And like, let's write short and medium term goals. And so, and ironically enough, the kids were harder on themselves. Like you can't be as the BSer. Every now and again, I deserve an A. Why? And they'd smile, but the vast majority of kids, they would set a goal. Let's just go somewhere cliche. I want to learn how to code, and I'm going to go to a website where you go, and I'm going to master, or I'm going to accomplish the first five levels. And they go and they do it, and then by the end of the two weeks,

because they usually had two week goals. And they'd go like, dude, I didn't get past the second one. So I said, like, I don't know, I get like a D. I'm like, why didn't you get past the fifth? It's harder than I thought. I'm like, awesome. Well, what do you think I get?

An A? And they're like, what do you mean an A? You set a goal, you realize that it was harder than you thought, so are you going to set a better, more defined goal next time? Yeah. Yeah, I'll be lucky if I get to the next module by the end of next week. So maybe two modules in two weeks. I'm like, awesome, A. And they're like, that is weird. But thank you. And, and, or one of my favorite

outcomes, and I'm not saying this to make developers mad, but I also had a lot of, this was like, like right when code.org and some of these other places started to take off. There was some that went through it and they're like, I don't want to do this. I had several students like, this is what I, and it wasn't just coding, like, this is what I think I want to do this. I had several students like this is what I and it wasn't just coding like this is what I think I want to go into college for and I'm like well then like start working on it in high school and when the students said I've been doing this for like the last two or four weeks and I hate it. Yeah. And then I go congratulations I saved you 20 several thousand dollars on changing your major. I did you didn't waste your first year of college or that's interesting. Worse yet the first two years because a lot of times you don't get the internship until

your junior year. That's true. And that like happened to me. I got like my junior college. Again, I'm not going to like dog on it, but like when I got done, I realized in the bottom of my stomach that this career wasn't right for me, but I was so close to graduating it stuck it out. this career wasn't right for me, but I was so close graduating it stuck it out. So like, in a lot of ways, their approach on autonomy and mastery was them figuring themselves out. And just the awesomeness of being able to set your own goals and then have someone hold you accountable. That was the class. So I think it's, I think it's important to talk about your three rules. Thank you for doing. Yeah, go ahead. No, you go ahead. Um, I, it depends on which episode you're listening. Like, first of all, yeah, who does it help other than you? Is this the three? That's the three. That's one of the three. Um, I think based on, boy, I'm, I wrote about this in my book and

I should be able to quote it. Uh, no, I basically I basically you know, why are you doing it? And then who does it help other than you? Yeah, they're one the middle one Yeah, the first of all, what are you gonna learn? Yeah, what are you gonna learn? Right? and then My gosh and who's it gonna help who's gonna help and then yeah then who's it help other than you? Because a lot of times when we selfishly go after a project, it's about us. By the way, this is now Simon Sinek stuff, right? That no one cares what you have until, you know, like, well, how is it? No one cares what you have until they know why you do it. But yeah, I mean, those three rules were like

an opportunity for them to say, this is what I want to work on. Why? What are you going to learn? Why do you want to learn that? And who's it going to help other than you? Because those kind of lessons also allowed them to see that you were solving a problem, especially that last one.

Who does it help other than you? I remember reading a story about a kid that wanted to do day trading. Oh, this is one of my favorite stories. Tell it. Man, your research goes back a ways. This is why I'm like, this was when I was still in the classroom and it's been a while. Yes.

So one of his projects, he said, I want to learn how to day trade. And I'm like, okay, why? And he's like, I want to learn how to make money. And, uh, right. Checks rule one. Absolutely. And then, um, essentially, you know, how are you going to do it? I'm going to watch a series of there were some YouTubers.

And then who does it help other than you? And he couldn't answer that. No. And so I was like, that was the three things for when you wrote your proposal to the class and if it didn't pass. About what you were gonna do, spend your time. Yeah, this is what I'm gonna do for the next two weeks. And again, if you liked it after two weeks, you wrote another two week proposal.

But on number three, I said, who's it helping you? He's like, I don't know, Wetrick. I wanna learn how to make money. Sorry. And I go, well, I'm not gonna approve it. And he goes, fine. So we had basically an all school wide study hall. He goes, I will, and he was in snarky. He goes, I'll do like a lot of, like you do a lot of times.

You probably learned it the week before and then you take, cause I, like, I wasn't too up on a lot of videography at first, but he's like, I will, I will learn stuff. And then I'll have then I'll have a club on how to day trade. And so then I'll teach it and it'll help other people. I go, good, I approve it. And how'd it go?

Well, shockingly well. And although it's when you're playing with other people's theoretical money, like, you know, kids do stock market game, which I love, I think they should, you always do well. But no, he learned quite a bit. And the fact that he was passing, and obviously the students that wanted to show up to that were very similar to him. But yeah, it was a great test of seeing a problem

as an opportunity. And he's like, I wanna learn how to day trade and we don't really do much stock market stuff during school time. So I want to do that. OK, awesome. And just like a lot of times, I'm not going to go political, but like. I want people to be successful, but I prefer they be nice about it. That's interesting. Yeah. So the idea is we're going to give kids autonomy.

We're going to give kids power and we're going to hold them accountable. Yeah. But we're also going to teach them that without autonomy and power comes a responsibility. Yeah. Yeah. And it becomes a thing. Yeah. And then you cross over that mentality with, I think, a film class during the Super Bowl or something, right? Oh, man.

Love it when you're asked. So, yeah, one of my I actually did a TED talk on this because I just wanted to relive that day. So again, this was actually before the Innovation Open Source Learning class. I was teaching English. I may have been at the same time, but we had decent equipment. And so this was the year that Indianapolis was hosting the Super Bowl. Also the known the year that Tom Brady got beat by Eli, as we'd like to call it,

which was one of the greatest days in the history of the planet. David Tyree, catch. Yeah, such a great, great thing ever. It really was a wild catch. Dude, David Tyree is insane. Anyway, go ahead. This was the first year that you were allowed to buy tickets to go into the media day. So we think that like, so we have decent equipment. Like this is over the shoulder cam

and then like the boom mic, right? So we're like, let's go and see if we can sneak in. I love it. I mean, maybe not the most ethical thing, but I'm- Your students had to have dug you on that. Yeah, well, so I wanted to do that ethically, but so we were showing up and we were interviewing anybody. Cause you get the part. Absolutely. I was in, I was in a tie.

My students were in a tie. Everything was going pretty good. And we're interviewing everybody. So we first started off with like interviewing, like ABC or NBC affiliates that were local. And when they interview them, like these kids are really nice. I'm like, do you have a ticket in like you have a, you have a media pass? You're like, yeah, for us. And like, ah, okay. And then also we ran into Chris Mortensen

and some of these guys and they interviewed them. They're like, your kids are fantastic. And I'm like, you got a media pass? And they're like, no. I'm not going to dive deep into my faith, but I feel like this happened the week before. I'm watching 60 minutes and they did an expose on Demora Smith. Demora Smith is the Players Association president, probably the second most powerful man in the NFL other than Roger Goodell.

And I recognize no one like people don't know who this guy is. But I'm like three nights earlier, I'm seeing this guy on TV and I'm like oh my gosh and again the student that has the microphone I go go get that guy he goes who is he I go he's the like players Association president and he's walking through with anybody being recognized and so he goes what's his name I go to more Smith and he yells out hey Mr. Smith we'd like to interview you he doesn doesn't even look back. He just keeps walking. He goes, Sorry, today. Sorry, guys. Today's about the players. And I was like, Oh, bummer.

And then this kid goes, just like the Mean Joe Green commercial. Oh, no. With the coke? Yes. The kid goes, I'm just a kid wanting to interview you. And he stopped. And he looked back, and he saw three students and a teacher that was just

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competing in Cape Town, South Africa for the prize of $300,000. Anyone can win, relationships matter, and and only one all star will claim the title of challenge champion. Listen to MTV's official challenge podcast on the iHeart radio app Apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. And we started interviewing them. And the first thing we had to talk about is the weather because there's Indianapolis and it was like almost 70. It was bizarre how wonderful the weather was in February. And they start talking, this was right when Peyton was,

is he gonna be a cold? Is he not? So he's having an engaging conversation with him. Things go well, we wrap it up. And I go, thank you so much. I hadn't asked yet. And he goes, your kids are fantastic. Congratulations, you must be so proud.

I said, yeah, I am. He goes, well, I guess I'll see you on the inside. And I go, well, that's the thing. We don't have a press pass. Reaches in his wallet, pulls out his business card, jot something down, he goes, go to gate two. He says, if they say anything, just call my cell number. 20 minutes later, my students are interviewing Eli and some of these other people.

Maybe among the day was so incredible, but that was kind of where the mantra that we started to say all the time, opportunities are everywhere. Keep your eyes open. So I'm part of a thing called the Society of Entrepreneurs in Memphis, which is a really huge honor to be a part of and it's a collection of people who've done three things. One, they have either taken what they were given or started from scratch an organization. started from scratch an organization. Two, they have incurred considerable risk to grow the organization.

And then three, they have used the riches of their success to give back. You can be a billionaire in this town, and there are a bunch of them, that have done really, really well. But if you're not philanthropic in your time and your endeavors, you will never be part of the side of entrepreneurs. You can also have been a guy that or a woman that came into a family business and mentored

it well and ushered it along through a few generations. But if you didn't risk anything or grow it, even if you're philanthropic, that's not really entrepreneurship, that's more stewardship. We also believe inside the organization that entrepreneurship can be more than just building an organization that makes money. It could be social entrepreneurship, it could be philanthropic entrepreneurship. But when I hear that story, the reason I wanted to tell you, tell, I wanted you to tell it because I think it parlays really beautifully into what you're doing now,

which is that was entrepreneurship at its best, in my opinion. Yeah, yeah. I mean, you're taking something you have very little knowledge of as a kid, which is a Cameron trying to do it. You're risking being embarrassed or villainized or laughed at. And, and then you're, you're offering up all that you've learned

for people to see and learn from. I mean, it is, and all of the things that, and so I guess what I'm saying is your path as a teacher and what you did with your students is so interesting because it is so uncommon and atypical. Less, I explain it to people and they think this is the most common-sense thing in the world say that again and why what is your what is your class done innovation and open source learning what does that mean the kids have an hour and a half to learn the things they want to learn school at school time and school resources to learn in parentheses the things they want to learn it's the, the things they wanna learn.

It's the most common sense thing in the world. School can be a destination of things that you, part of school should be things you should learn. Agree, like- Basic math. Absolutely. Language. Language, yes.

Could part of that day be designed on things that you want to learn? And then, and by the way, this was the great pivot. I'm glad you brought this up, because this is exactly society of entrepreneurs. The class at first was called Innovation and Open Source Learning. We're gonna get into that open source learning part

in a little bit. But when they started working on things, when they turn it in, they were turning it in for an audience of one. That's a lot of work to turn into me. So when they were really onto something and they were proud of it, you should go ahead and release it to the public. That is entrepreneurship. Whether that is a documentary film or whether that is a product, a service, an app, whatever. It was then I realized that what we were really teaching was entrepreneurship, not innovation.

And back to Pink's Ted Talk, talking about 19th and 20th century management versus employee relationships being carrot and stick, that 21st century is autonomy and creativity. is autonomy and creativity. This is 21st century teaching, which is, would fly in the face of how anybody my age or maybe 10 years younger than me and all of everybody older than me really were educated. It also speaks to the fallacy of the No Child Left Behind Act, which basically says,

go to school, do your work, get good grades. Everybody's got to go college, be successful. Yeah. That is, well, I get the intent behind that. There's a reason there was a shop class at one time, because you can be amazingly successful as a cabinet maker and have never gone to college. But if you don't learn the basics of shop in high school, how do you become a cabinet maker? Or a plumber? Or an electrician? Or all these other things that we are short on in the United States because we have, I mean, one of my biggest complaints is we force kids into these disciplines and then they

get this narrative that go to college, be successful, and then they graduate college in four or five years with $100, dollars in student loans to be a social worker, to go make thirty eight thousand dollars a year, where you could have gone to shop class and then an apprentice school. And by the age of 19, been making eighteen dollars an hour as an apprentice electrician. And by 24, instead of having a lot of debt, making thirty eight thousand dollars a year as a social worker,

you can make $150,000 a year as a master electrician. Which is one of micro's biggest arguments too, which is why he and I get along so famously. And you and you evoked him so I had to evoke him back. But you, on the other hand, are replacing that idea that chop and those kinds of things with let's be autonomous and creative in the classroom to let kids figure out before they start down this path what they really wanna be

and what they really wanna do. And vet it. Which made some parents really mad. I was, I swear to you, that's great. We're on the same wavelength, that's what I'd say. How did parents take that, and especially the parents that were helicoptering the hell out of their kids to get straight A's?

Because I imagine it pissed them off because it's not, it becomes oblique. So let me say without a doubt the vast vast vast vast vast majority of the parents loved it and I will say this class attracted the I'm saying it's lovingly the creative weirds right this is this was a class that attracted a different kind of student for sure but there were a few that were mad that dad had figured out that you were gonna go to school for this and Sometimes the the student was like, okay, you know, I'll go along with it and then we had opportunities to do that and then they didn't like that and

Then they're going back dad and like yeah, I'm changing my plans. I'm not going to go major in that. And that's sometimes race a mire about, yeah. One of the, Oh boy, let me get myself in trouble. One of the more darker moments I had. Oh, I hope she doesn't listen to this. There was a student I had. It was no names, no years. True. True. Good, good, good point. Good point.

I won't even say which school that he was really good in math and he was working on a project that was very important to him in my class. Uh, he was also very abrupt and so he was what abrupt, very abrupt. And so one day in class he just raised his hand. He goes, um, could you just give me those test? I'll ace it. I don't feel like sitting here listening to you anymore. Oh wait, it gets worse. It gets worse.

And she goes, what? And he goes, yeah, I would rather go to Wechner's class and work on things that are meaningful. Oh wow. And she was mad. So she confronted me and said, Can you believe him? And I said, Yes. And I and she says, You're so endearing. So I'm trying I'm like, I really was trying to be nice. But then I had a question and I go, if he said that he

could ace it right then and there, why didn't you just let him take the test? What's the point? Put him through the rest of the vitriol. And she was so mad. And so this is when I really probably could have handled it better. But she got mad. She's like, well, you think your class is so great. And I said, I do.

And she stormed off. And I wanted to kind of debate her a little bit of, you know, it's like anything. If you were told to do something that you were already good at, why would you want to still do it? Like if we had to go and do the driver's test every year at the BMW and had to wait two hours and listen to a lecture on how to drive. Like, I know how to drive. We wouldn't appreciate that. And so this young man was gifted in math and he's like, I just want like give me the test because this project over here is taking time and I'd rather spend the time doing that. I mean, he said it unfortunately in a more abrupt way. I can't control that. But when I wouldn't like, defend her position, I was like, well, why didn't you let him it just I felt bad on how that ended. But I still stand behind it. It speaks to one of my favorite idioms about business, which is, you know the last words of any down organization.

We've always done it that way. And so if the construct of education is, why are we doing it this way? Is because we've always done it that way. How could we ever inspire creativity and growth among our kids when we ourselves are not willing to be? And that is one of the reasons why I love the story of kind of how you got to

where you are now, because I think you became more and more creative as a human being as a result of teaching my students were autonomous and creative. My students were introducing me to thought leaders I'd never heard of. That's so cool. Like so I kept getting this comparison to a guy named Gary V. Gary V. Gary V. And you're thinking who is that? Who's Gary V? Right and again this was like 10 plus years ago so but he was still a name and so I watch it and I'm like, oh my gosh, this guy,

because he was very opinionated about education. And so it started with Dan and then all of a sudden like, hey, have you heard anything from Seth Godin? No, oh, oh, I've quoted Seth Godin so many times. I've, and my host is going as I've heard you say this on a lot of occasions, but his quote, I think is from, and I'm going to paraphrase it, I think is from Lynchpin, education can be boiled down to two things, solving interesting problems and leadership to get it done.

So all those things amalgamated to me wanting to do this of like, what is an interesting problem? If you're solving for X and that's all it is is X, that may not be interesting to some kids, some kids. This ability to create a class or a niche of time to say, what do you wanna do? What do you wanna learn? Or as we always say, see a problem as an opportunity.

Now the current generation, students and adults included, do a great job of pointing out what sucks. It's called social media, but changing your profile picture doesn't mean it's like, it doesn't mean anything like, Oh, I changed my profile picture. So I stand with it. No, you didn't. You changed your profile picture. No, you change your profile picture. You don't do any. Right. And it's cool. Everything starts with it. No, you didn't. You changed your profile picture. No, you change your profile picture.

You don't do any right. And it's cool. Everything starts with awareness. So I'm not I'm not like disrespecting people's ability to point out what needs changing. But when we had students go, all right, then what do you want to do? And that's that was the that was really the pivot of of the innovation open source learning class

in a microcosm that sums up our whole point and doing this podcast, which is Anybody can point out there's poverty and problems in the judicial system and problems in Foster care and problems all these products. What are you gonna do about it? And standing there talking about it doesn't mean anything. And I would even argue that if you see the problem and remain inactive, you are part of the problem. Yeah. And that concludes part one of my conversation with Don Wetrik and you do not want to miss

part two that's now available to listen to. Together guys, we can change this country. But it starts with you. I'll see you in part two. This is the story of how a group of people brought music back to Afghanistan by creating their own version of American Idol. The joy they brought to the nation. You're free completely. No one they brought to the nation. You're free completely. No one is there to destroy you.

The danger they endured. They said my head should be cut off. I'm John Legend. Listen to Afghan Star on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. podcast. ex lovers are all competing in Cape Town, South Africa for the prize of $300,000. And we're going to be right here along with you fans covering every episode on the podcast. Listen to MTV's official challenge podcast on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

Welcome to season nine of Next Question with me, Katie Couric. I've got some big news to share with you in our season premiere featuring the one and only Chris Jenner. Oh my gosh, congratulations. That is very, very exciting. And that's just the beginning. We'll also be joined by podcast hosts Jay Shetty, Hillary Clinton, Renée Flemming, Liz Cheney and many more. So come on in, take a break, t incessant negativity for fascinating conversations. will actually put you in to next question with me,