An Army of Normal Folks - Don't Be Afraid To Ask For Help

Episode Date: May 30, 2025

For Shop Talk, Coach Bill reflects on some fascinating studies that show people are far more willing to help us than we might expect. And what this means for the Army. Support the show: https://www.normalfolks.us/premiumSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Hey everybody, it's Bill Courtney. Welcome into the shop. What's up Alex? Just living the dream, baby. Living the dream. Me too. I've been traveling too much lately. I'm so glad to be home and back in the shop.

I feel so bad for you going to weddings and vacation. Well vacation's fine. Weddings, you know. Who actually goes to a wedding that's not in the family or being married that actually looks forward to it? I think most weddings. It looks like it was in a beautiful spot though. I saw Molly post pictures of, is it Estes Park where you guys went?

I don't know. I think so. I don't even remember. I think so. You didn't even know where you were. Well, I mean, it's, you go to weddings more as an obligation than anything else. I mean, that's you go to weddings more as an obligation than anything else. I mean, that's what people do. I hope this couple hears this episode. That'd be amazing. I love them and I hope they have a wonderful life and I was so happy to be at their wedding. How's that?

That was obligatory to keep going. It was. Shop Talk number 54, everybody. This one is titled, Don't Be Afraid to Ask for Help, which reminds me of like the 1970s parody where people before cell phones, people would drive around but the husband would never get out and ask for help at the gas station and would just stay lost for hours because they're unwilling to admit they're lost and need help. The pride of every man. Yes, that's it. I'm Jake Hanrahan, journalist and documentary filmmaker. Away Days is my new project, reporting on countercultures on the fringes of society all across the world. Live from the underground, you'll discover no rules fighting, Japanese street racing,

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Welcome back to the shop, everybody. Shop Talk number 54. Don't be afraid to ask for help. In Chicago Booth Review, a publication of the University of Chicago's Booth Business School. That's where really smart people go to school, I think. Yeah, it is. You know what I mean? University of Chicago's Booth Business School. I mean, when it says the University of Chicago's Booth Business School, if you have to have six names, six words to describe your school, it's probably hard to go to school there. Now, speaking of a normal folks thing for a little diversion,

one thing like me going to all these fancy schools, like that St. Ignatius I was telling you about, by the way, they're not a church school, they were found in the 1800s. No, I didn't know. So this is where it is, boy. Yeah, got that. Or even UVA, like living in Oxford, Mississippi now

with all these people went to Ole Miss, it's amazing how many people make more money than me despite the fancy schools. Yeah, it was. So it's like, who cares? Like the Uets are these fancy schools, whatever. Yeah, I mean, we're in Oxford, who cares, right. Okay, in Chicago Booth Review,

a publication of the very fancy University of Chicago's Booth Business School, Cassandra Brabal? I don't know. I don't know, B-R-A-B-A-W. Cassandra Brabal wrote an't know. I don't need a B R A B A W. Sondra Brabal wrote an awesome article titled Don't be afraid to ask for help. Walking in a park one day, Stanford's say Stanford. It's not that I know it's there is a difference. Those of us who watch UVA do know to say it's Stanford.

Those of us who watch UVA do know the same Stanford. I'm going to say Jean Jao. It's spelled X-U-A-N-Z-H-A-O. So walking in a park one day, Stanford's Jean Jao noticed an elderly couple trying to take a picture of themselves. She heard the husband whisper that they shouldn't bother a young man using a laptop on a bench nearby. Noticing their struggle, the woman offered to help. Really?

The wife asked. You can help us take a picture? It was a common enough interaction and it mirrored the findings of a study that Zhao conducted with Booth's Nicholas Epley when she was a postdoctoral scholar at Chicago Booth. The researchers find that people can be consistently reluctant to reach out for assistance because they underestimate how happy others are to comply. That's interesting. Often it is our own preconceived notions that hinder us from reaching out and seeking help even though people are frequently more more

than willing to lend a hand when asked. This reluctance creates a barrier to a social interaction that would increase the well-being for both the requester of the helper and the helper. The researchers right. In six experiments, Epley and Jowell surveyed hundreds of people to gather information about study participants' expected and actual reactions to either asking for or being asked for help. For example, in their first experiment, Jawan Epley recruited 50 visitors of a public park and asked them to find someone to take their picture on a Polaroid camera. Participants first filled out a survey that gauged both how they felt about making the request

and how they expected the people they approached to fill and react. In 47 cases, the first person approached agreed to help. In three others, the first declined declined but the second person said yes. The researchers then approached the picture-takers and surveyed them as well. The participants significantly underestimated the picture-takers' willingness to help and overestimated the discomfort involved, the surveys revealed. Another experiment tested how willing strangers in a university laboratory were to help each

other. Participants were paired up and seated at a computer desk close enough that they could see each other, but not the other's computer screen. They were then tasked with, within five minutes, counting the number of instances the letter E appeared in an academic article. One partner was given too much material to cover in that time, while the other was given so little as to have lots of time left over. The overburdened participants were encouraged to ask for help, whether by asking their partners directly or by tapping the experiment instructor to ask on their behalf.

As before in the other experiments, the results indicate that the people in need of help tended to underestimate how happy others were to provide help and they overestimated the perceived bother involved in asking for help. We believe those asking for help are likely to focus on the inconvenience of helping as the help required is likely to be their primary focus, Epley says. Someone being asked for help, in contrast, will focus on the inconvenience of helping, but will also focus on an enhanced sense of agency for being identified as someone who could provide help. Now that's interesting.

Huh. I'm going to read that again. This is in quotes. We believe those asking for help are likely to focus on the inconvenience of helping as the help required is likely to be their primary focus. Someone being asked for help in contrast will focus on the inconvenience of helping but will also focus on an enhanced sense of personal agency for being identified as someone who could provide help. In other words, we like to be helpful. For the person being asked for help, the social connection and positive feeling of performing

and active kindness most likely always outweigh the inconvenience. Zal and Epley say the finding changed their own behavior. Zal now proactively offers help, knowing how reluctant others are to ask. She gives the example of a recent vacation to Muir Woods National Monument, where she offered to take photos for other visitors, even suggesting she use a panorama mode to capture the full grandeur of the monument's old growth red-rid trees. Epley no longer hesitates to reach out for help. In some ways, it's actually unkind not to ask for help, and someone would be quite willing and even happier if you did ask, he says.

Pretty phenomenal stuff, but how does that all really relate? It's this. An army of normal folks is only as good as an army and we often take on a project and feel like it's it's our duty to finish it and oftentimes won't ask for help because we feel like we're inconveniencing somebody. But what the study tells us is people want to be asked for help. And by asking people for help, you give them agency, ownership, you give them a place and a project.

So if you're engaged in something and you want to grow an army around your idea, it might be as simple as just asking for help to give people agency in your idea. One, they want to help. The research shows people want to help. And two, you grow agency and ownership by involving people in the help. And three, as pointed out at the very end there, you're actually doing the service to other people by not asking them for help because you're not giving them the opportunity to engage. It's pretty interesting stuff, Alex.

Yeah, it sure is. Where'd you find this? This is all Alex's idea, by the way. So our good friend Evan Feinberg shared the article on LinkedIn. Why wouldn't it be Evan Feinberg? He posts a lot of good stuff like this that are good shop talks. So this actually came from Evan Feinberg. Yeah. Shout out to Evan. That's pretty cool. So shop talk number 54. Don't be afraid to

ask for help. Here's the asterisks. Why shouldn't we be afraid to ask for help? One, people want to help. That's what the research shows. Two, people take on agency when they're allowed to help, meaning they get involved in your work, your idea, your need. And three, because people want to help, when you're afraid to ask them for help, you're actually doing them a disservice because you're precluding them from engaging in something that will make them feel better so don't be afraid to ask for help not just because it's good for you but it's good for the people you asked for help to pretty interesting stuff and I think for all of us to be healthy as healthy as possible

we all need help and so I hate asking for help. It's a good example. I really hate it But you know for me to be the best version of who I can likely is gonna require help from other people Therefore I'm gonna be a healthier person. Therefore. I can actually give them help more people myself at the end of the day So yeah, and their help healthier too because people want to help It's good stuff. That's actually kind of an army of normal folks kind of thing. Yep, that's how we did it as a shop talk, bro. Yeah, there it is.

Shop talk number 54. Don't be afraid to ask for help because you're doing yourself and others a disservice by doing it. Oh yeah, our new plug. This is a good play off of our recent new plug. Go for it. Speaking of asking for help.

Oh, we want your help. Yes. And you can help other people by doing this too. Seems like just a big old help thing. Yeah, we're all just helping each other in one big circle. So if you do a good act, whether it's like giving blood like John Norman is, or you're running with the homeless like Michael Lignosis,

and all the amazing thing Army members are doing. Through building a bed. Yes. Anything. Post it on social media and write some kind of message like join hashtag an Army of normal folks. Together we can solve our problems. Tag us in it too.

We want to start sharing a lot of those acts. Yeah, we'll repost all that. On our accounts, yep. But also those posts can help other people by seeing, look, normal folks like me can solve these problems. And together, we can solve almost all the problems. And hopefully it brings more people to the show. That's true.

So we help each other. We're all helping each other through this kind of post. You just gotta be humble about it. Yeah. Right? You can't be a turkey person bragging about how great you are. Yeah. Let's just do it and send it to us and we'll repost it.

And who knows, maybe something goes viral. But more importantly, growing the army, sharing our stories. That's it. That's it. Hey, if you like this episode, rate and review it. Join the army at normal folks dot us. Subscribe to the podcast. You're really mailing an

end right now I think I got it all didn't I you can become a premium member of normal box that I just thought one yeah and besides that we'll see you next week yes next week yes next week okay that's shop talk number 54 we just asked for help don't be afraid to ask for help. Let's grow the army. And we'll see you next week. Thanks for joining.