An Army of Normal Folks - Dr. Scott Morris: Serving 80,000 Underinsured Americans (Pt 1)

Episode Date: May 7, 2024

Scott is the founder of Church Health, the largest faith-based privately funded health clinic in the country. Over 1,000 doctors volunteer to serve 80,000 underinsured patients in Memphis!Support the show: https://www.normalfolks.us/premiumSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

In your infinite wisdom for a really smart guy, you moved to Memphis knowing nobody. Not one person. I came totally just selling out of an empty cart, knocking on doors. So I came to start something that was going to be called Church Health Center, have a cross in its logo, led by a Methodist minister, me. I needed money to get our doors open because it's a true charity. And you're a doctor. And I'm a doctor. But I went to the most obvious place for funding.

Churches. A Jewish family foundation. Welcome to an Army of Normal, folks, I'm Bill Courtney. I'm a normal guy. I'm a husband, I'm a father, I'm an entrepreneur, and I've been a football coach in inner city Memphis. And that last part, it unintentionally led to an Oscar for the film about our team. It's called Undefeated.

Guys, I believe our country's problems will never be solved by a bunch of fancy people in nice suits using big words that nobody understands on CNN and Fox, but rather an army of normal folks, us, just you and me deciding, hey, I can help. That's what Dr. Scott Morris, the voice we just heard, has done. Scott is the founder of Church Health, the largest faith-based, privately funded health clinic in the entire U.S., serving over 80,000 uninsured and underinsured patients in Memphis alone. I cannot wait for you to meet Scott right after these brief messages from our generous sponsors. More Than a Movie is back with season two of the award-winning film podcast and this time with a lot more movies. I'm your host Alex Fumero and each week

I'm gonna talk to the people behind some of my favorite movies. From the Godfather, Andy Garcia. He has the smarts of Vito, the temper of Sonny, the warmth of Fredo, and the coldness of Michael. To the OG spy kid, Alexa PenaVega. You had Carlo Gugino, who's the coolest mom ever. You had Antonio, who's handsome, amazing, charismatic, and then Carmen and Juni. I felt like a lot of other kids felt like this could be me. To the legend behind La Bamba, Lou Diamond Phillips. When I walked in, I didn't think I had a shot at Richie because John Stainless's picture was already up on the wall. Every episode will feature interviews with the biggest actors, directors,

writers, and producers behind your favorite films and tap into the history of Latinos in film. Listen to More Than a Movie as part of the MyCultura podcast network available on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Every family has skeletons in their closet. Mine certainly does. Ones that go back a hundred years and reach thousands of miles back to our hometown in Sicily. Ever since I can remember, my relatives told the story of my great-great-grandmother who was killed by the mafia. I'm Jo Piazza, and in my new podcast, I'm taking on a generational vendetta, visiting the scene of the crime, confronting mafia experts, tracking down Italian officials, and even consulting mediums to

set the record straight on my great-great-grandmother's mysterious disappearance. And in between the fact-finding missions, I'll be drinking a lot of wine and eating all of the pasta. Come to Italy with me to solve this 100-year-old murder mystery. Listen to The Sicilian Inheritance on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Katie Herrick Welcome to season nine of Next Question with me, Katie Herrick.

It is 2024 and we're going to get through this together, folks. My campaign promise to all of you here on Next Question is going to be a good time the whole time, we hope. I have some big news to share with you on our season premiere featuring Kris Jenner, who's got some words of wisdom for me on being a good grandmother, or in her case, a good lovey. You know, you start thinking of what you want your grandmother name to be, like are they going to call me grandma like I called my grandmother? So I got to choose my name, which is now Lovie. I'll also be joined by Hillary Clinton, Renee Flemming, Liz Cheney, to name a few. So come

on in and take a break from the incessant negativity for a weekly dose of fascinating conversations. Some of them, I promise, will actually put you in a good mood. I loved it. Your energy and joy. I'm squeezing every minute I can for you out of this season of Next Question. Last question, I promise. You have to go, I have to go. But it's been so fun. And I can't wait for you to hear it.

Listen to Next Question with me, Katie Couric, on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. us. Welcome everybody. Today is a great day for me because I get to interview someone who I consider a friend. And I'm fortunate that he allows me to be his friend. He is a guy that has changed lives very dramatically and continues to change lives and whose story should be emulated in every urban city in the United States in my opinion. Dr. Scott Morris started a thing called the Church Health Center. And now I think it's just called Church Health. But we'll get to all of that

after we kind of explore how we even got here in the first place. So I don't know if I should say Scott or Dr. Morris, what do you want me to say? We'll go with Scott. Scott, thanks for joining me. I'm glad to be here. Tell everybody where you grew up, how you grew up, mom, dad, siblings. I don't even know the answers to these questions. So where you grew up, how you grew up, mom, dad, siblings, I don't even know the answers to these questions. So where you grew up, how you grew up and kind of the ethos of the world you came from as a kid. I grew up in Atlanta. My father was a business person.

My mother ran the house and sort of created a way for me to think about the world. But I went to a private school in Atlanta that in retrospect changed me in a lot of ways. How so? Well, I had gone to a public school up until the eighth grade and my parents put a gun to my head and told me I was going to the private school, which is the last thing I wanted to do. Really? You wanted to stay in public school? I did because that's where my friends were. Yeah, it makes sense. But going to the private school, I mean, I was challenged. I was not the smartest person

in the class as I had been before. I was with some people who were really, really smart, and I loved that. But also being there, I saw myself as an athlete. I played three sports. I was particularly good at baseball, I think. What three sports? Football, basketball, and baseball, I think. What three sports? Football, basketball, and baseball back in the 1960s. The big three. Right, yeah. People like telling a story that when I was in the ninth grade, I pitched a no-hitter against Georgia Tech.

How was that possible? Because my high school had an ability to play Georgia Tech in the spring. It was probably... Are you serious? Yeah, I'm serious. In high school, you pitched a no hitter against a college. At ninth grade. Not just in high school, ninth grade. Wow. Yeah. I threw a lot of curve balls. They hit a lot of balls to the fence, but we caught them.

No kidding. That's a cool story. I never knew that. Wow. Okay. So, siblings? Nope. Only child. Only child. Yeah. That was spoiled by that. Well, you know, I'm an only child too, but my only childness is probably way different than your only childness. So, you graduate from, what's the name of the high school? Westminster. Westminster. So, you graduate from Westminster and I guess now it's what do I wanna be when I grow up?

Well, actually, even before that, I was asking that question, trying to... As a teenager, I knew I wasn't gonna pitch for the Atlanta Braves, although I didn't really believe they wouldn't call me, but they never did. Were you left or right? I was right-handed. Okay, right-handed. Left-handed, you might have had a shot. Maybe.

But as a teenager, I read the Bible and the church mattered to me as a teenager. But even as a teenager, the thought of preaching 52 sermons a year shivers down my spine, still does. So I knew I didn't want to go down that path. But when I'm 14, 15 years old, I realized that a third of the Bible has to do with healing the sick. It's literally on every page. But I would look around and see what churches did, and there just wasn't much to it.

You know, we would pray for people on a Sunday morning. The pastor was expected to visit people in the hospital. A few people visited the shut-ins, and that defined our healing ministry. You know, it seemed to me that there ought to be more to it than that. You really felt that way at 15? I did, yeah. Right. And to that point, my father particularly thought I shouldn't be focusing so much on

matters of the church. I had to focus more on becoming a doctor. So... So anyway, I go to college and then the University of Virginia. Okay. Well, then you may not have been the smartest guy in class, but dumb people don't go to the University of Virginia. Do they, Alex?

Wahoo Wah. I want their team. Oh, did you? Okay, Wahoo Wah. Yeah. I'm actually- Producer Alex and Scott have something in common all of a sudden. Well, I don't actually think of myself as a Wahoo.

So, but I spent my junior year in London, so that was actually a fantastic experience sort of seeing the world in a smaller way. But then I go to seminary and I went to Yeltsin school and I spent most of my time there looking at what the church has historically done when it came to issues around health. Pete Hold it. You have an undergraduate from Virginia in? Jared History.

Pete In history. And do you go to London School of Economics maybe? Jared University of London. Pete University, you say that like it's no University of London, but that's pretty cool. So now you've got a degree from Virginia in history, and you've got to experience the University of London. So your worldview is growing. And now you say, your dad who wants you to be a doctor, you say, well, no, at 14 or 15, I just the Bible, I'm going to Yale Divinity School.

Dr. Keltner Right. Dr. Keltner Is Yale Divinity School a theological...do you graduate from there as a, quote, pastor? I don't know how that works. It was a three-year experience and you've graduated with a master of divinity. And that's what a degree you would need to go be ordained as a Presbyterian, a Methodist, Episcopalian, something like that. And so that's the typical track of people who do that. Yes, that's exactly right.

Okay. And so I'm sorry. So now you're at Yale Divinity School, but you're still caught up on this 15-year-old obsession with Christian healing. Right. And so I spent three years at YDS really looking at what historically the church had done to take seriously these issues of faith and health. What would it look like? And I come to realize there's a reason these hospitals have church names on them. We just forgot. I'll give you one... We just forgot. So Baptist Hospital, Methodist, Christian hospital, they do have all these faith names on them. They have no idea why they're called that.

It's funny. But I'll give you an example on the Methodist side, which I happen to be, so I'm a United Methodist minister. But John Wesley, the founder of the Methodist Church, actually thought of himself as a physician. He practiced medicine from the day he was 19 until he died. He wrote a book called primitive physics Which is a self-help health care manual that was so successful in the American frontier But as late as 1850 if you were anywhere really in America By 1850 there would have been a greater chance of you having a copy of Wesley's book

Primitive physics and you would your own copy of the Bible. No kidding. Now, I fully confess Wesley had some unusual ideas. He had at least 18 different cures for baldness. Most of which I've tried myself and I think your producer may need to start taking notes at this point. I love it! It's the first time anyone's called me on that ever. Wahoo wahoo. is that what you said? Wahoo, whatever that means.

So my favorite cure was that you take a big red onion, you rub it on your head until it turns red, and then you put honey on it. Now, if that doesn't work, you could use Wesley's tried and true method for anything, which is you can electrify it. Wesley actually saw a demonstration of static electricity that was put on by Benjamin Franklin in London, and he was so enamored with the idea that he went home and in his garage,

he created a little thing he called an electrifier. And if you read his diaries, he used it virtually every day. So I have this great vision of, you know, if you come to me and you have a cold and I'm in my role as a physician and I give you the best that modern medicine has to offer for your cold, how long will it be before you get better? I mean, I'm very optimistic. I tell people five days. Of course, if you sit at home and you wait until you get better and you don't do anything, how long will it be before you get better? Five days.

About five days. But I have this great vision of people coming to Wesley and he takes these electrodes and puts them up to the person's nose and he shocks living daylights out of them. And those people get better in five days. But it's not as crazy as it sounds. If somebody falls down dead right here, you probably want me to put a little electricity through your heart. Electricity is actually quite important in medicine todays.

But really, more to the point, Wesley believed- That's hilarious. Okay, go ahead. Wesley believed that every method of society and indeed every church should be involved in direct hands-on healthcare. For Wesley, it mostly had to do with the coal miners of Western England. When he came to America, even though he was not a very successful evangelist, in two years of being in America, Wesley did not convert one person, not one.

But his ideas around health care actually caught on and spread all over the country until as late as 1863, a pastor in Guilford, Connecticut, wrote the standard textbook of physiology for the entire country. Really? So what happened? Because what I just described is not the way it is in America today. because what I just described is not the way it is in America today. So in my time at the Divinity School, I came to realize, in my own opinion, there are three reasons that things change. One, the split between science and religion that comes about because of Darwin.

You should never underestimate the influence of Darwin. We experience it every day. The second is during the late 19th and early 20th century, there was an explosion in medical science. And along with it, there rose a new profession known as medicine. It was seen as financially lucrative. It made sense to keep the clergy out, and the truth is the clergy were too lazy to keep up with all the new knowledge. Now, unfortunately, with all that new knowledge, still no cure for baldness. And then the third thing and really the most important thing is during the same timeframe,

late 19th, early 20th century, there's a reassertion of a philosophical idea known as Cartesian dualism. Say that again. Cartesian dualism. Cartesian dualism. Say that again. Cartesian dualism. Cartesian's dualism. This is Descartes' idea. If it's an idea... All right, hang on, Scott. For all of our listeners, this is our first Yale divinity graduate, so you're going to

have to deal with big words. Cartesian dualism. Okay, go ahead, Scott. That's good. So anything is an idea that René Descartes, a 17th century French philosopher, throws out there. That's what it's referred to as Cartesian. But this is an incredibly important idea because Descartes, who just recapitulates Plato,

convinces us that you can take a human being and separate us into a body and a spirit. And we put the body on one side and say it's the purview of science and medicine. We put the spirit on the other, say it's okay for the church and people of faith to mess around with your spirit, but heaven forbid we cross that line and actually care about our bodies. So that idea is actually a fundamentally non-Christian, non-Jewish, non-Muslim, non-Hindu idea. You know, within all of our world religions, our bodies and our spirits are one.

Our bodies are temple. Exactly. And, you know, what affects our bodies affects our spirit and vice versa. But this idea... Hold on, hold on. What affects our body affects our spirit and vice versa. But this... Hold on, hold on. What affects our body affects our spirit. In other words, if our body is broken and we physically feel like hell, our spirit is broken. That's exactly right. And we... I mean, look, what I just... If you start thinking about

it, this is just... We all get this. And yet, this separation between body and spirit rules the day. You know, I'll give you two examples of both of them. One, I guarantee you this moment there's somebody in an emergency room here in Memphis, but all over the country, who has walked in the emergency room and told the doctor, my heart hurts. And then the doctor's gonna do all these tests. EKG,, my heart hurts. And then the doctor's going to do all these tests. EKG, CAT scan. EKG, CAT scan, MRI. And then all the tests are going to be normal.

And the doctor's going to tell the patient, there's nothing wrong. But you can MRI somebody's chest all day long, and you'll never know what a broken heart looks like. Now, 50% of people who come to primary care doctors like me have no medical problem. People come to the doctor today for reasons they used to come to the priest. Now, the other side of this is the least healthy meal you could eat every week is at a church. Our churches... Spaghetti dinner. Spaghetti dinner! Jared Slauson Spaghetti dinner and everything else.

Our churches have blessed the sin of gluttony for the sake of fellowship. Pete Slauson Wow, say that again. Jared Slauson Our churches have blessed the sin of gluttony for the sake of fellowship. Pete Slauson You mean coffee and donuts and Wednesday night suppers with fried chicken and... Jared Slauson As long as we're getting along and we're coffee and donuts and Wednesday night suppers with fried chicken and... As long as we're getting along and we're having fellowship together, then all that other is

okay. But in the midst of the obesity epidemic in America, clergy are actually 20% heavier than the rest of the population. You can't have a healthy church if you don't have healthy leaders. And I assure you, we do not have healthy leaders. And now, a few messages from our generous sponsors. But first, I hope you'll follow us on all your favorite social media channels, where we share more powerful content from the Army.

Search for, At Army of Normal Folks on every channel. We'll be right back. More Than a Movie is back with season two of the award winning film podcast and this time with a lot more movies. I'm your host, Alex Fumero, and each week I'm going to talk to the people behind some a lot more movies. I'm your host Alex Fumero and each week I'm going to talk to the people behind some of my favorite movies from the Godfather Andy Garcia. He has the smarts of Vito, the temper of Sonny, the warmth of Fredo and the coldness of Michael to the OG

spy kid Alexa Pena Vega. You had Carlo Gugino who's the coolest mom ever. You had Antonio who's handsome, amazing, charismatic. And then Carmen and Juni. I felt like a lot of other kids felt like this could be me. To the legend behind La Bamba, Lou Diamond Phillips. When I walked in, I didn't think I had a shot at Richie because John Stamos's picture was already up on the wall. Every episode will feature interviews with the biggest actors, directors, writers, and producers behind your favorite films and tap into the history of Latinos in film. Listen to More Than a Movie as part of the MyCultura podcast network available on the iHeart

radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. My name is Ariel. I moved to the U.S. at 19. I spoke no English and I struggled finding job opportunities. Everything I have, I owe to the Adult Literacy Center and getting my high school diploma at age 22. It was an honor helping you achieve your greatness. Now you're helping others achieve theirs. It inspires me. When you graduate, they graduate.

Find free and supportive adult education centers near you at finishyourdiploma.org. Brought to you by Dollar General Literacy Foundation and the Ad Council. Every family has skeletons in their closet. Mine certainly does. Ones that go back a hundred years and reach thousands of miles back to our hometown in Sicily. Ever since I can remember, my relatives told the story of my great-great-grandmother who was killed by the mafia. I'm Jo Piazza, and in my new podcast, I'm taking on a generational vendetta, visiting the scene of the crime, confronting mafia experts, tracking down Italian officials,

and even consulting mediums to set the record straight on my great-great-grandmother's mysterious disappearance. And in between the fact-finding missions, I'll be drinking a lot of wine and eating all of the pasta. Come to Italy with me to solve this 100-year-old murder mystery. Listen to The Sicilian Inheritance on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Why does a guy that doesn't want to preach 52 sermons a week, who knows that at 15 and 20, say, yeah, but I'm going to go to Yale Divinity School anyway? Because I care deeply about the church in my own life. I wanted to be engaged with the

church in a professional way in some way or the other. But you just didn't know yet. You were still figuring it out. I didn't know what it was gonna look like. And so one day, I'm in the chaplain's office of the Yale Medical School while I'm in Divinity School, and I look on his desk and there's a little pamphlet that says, how to start a church-based health clinic. And I go, that's it. That's what I want to do. So it was written by Luther and Texas.

What year is this, Scott? 1978. Okay. So 35 years ago, 37 years ago. Forty years ago. Forty years. Gosh, 40 years ago. No, 45 years ago. Whatever. I can't do the math. You're from Yale. You can help me. Before a lot of people here listen, we're born. Yeah. So you see this pamphlet and it says, so this idea was, you know, 45 years ago, if they're making pamphlets about it, there's somebody

who's thinking that way. I wasn't the only person out there doing this. Yeah, you're thinking this way. Yeah. And it turns out there's a lot of people out there who care about this link. Okay. So you say that's what I want to do. Yes.

And so I now set out to figure out, well, what would that look like? So this pamphlet was written by a Lutheran pastor in Chicago. I go to meet him and through him, just go meet one person after the other. Over the next few years, I steal the best ideas I can. I merge them with my own. I finish seminary, I go to medical school. Where?

I started at Yale and I hated Yale medical school and I ended up transferring and I finished at Emory. And then I do a residency to be a family doctor. And I'm finally ready to start my own church-based health clinic. I want to stay in the South. I don't want to go back to Atlanta. It just got to be too big. If I never go back to Atlanta again, I'll be happy. We just lost all Atlanta listeners. Oh, sorry. It's okay. They can get over it.

And then one day- They lost an asset. And then one day, and I'm not making this up, I read somewhere that Memphis is the poorest major city in America. And based on that, I say I'm going to Memphis. Had you ever even been here? No, I did not know one person. I'd never set foot in the place. At this point, I was 33 years old. Stop. There's a story that I think emulates so much of what we've already heard that you told me probably 10, 12, 13 years ago.

And I'm going to mess it up and I'll let you clean it up. But it was about, I think you were an intern or not, not an intern, you were in med school or were doing whatever. I was a third year medical student. There we go. Third year medical student. And you're in an ER and there's a person on a table dying, quote, coding, to use the medical terms. And something was said during that that was profound that also helped shape so much what you're talking about.

Can you tell us that story? Dr. Robert Hildreth Yeah. So as a third year medical student, you're part of a team. You have a senior resident, but they're just young doctors too. But there's five or six people on the team and we walk in and somebody is coding. Essentially their heart has stopped beating. And then the way it's normally run is the third year medical student, me, is the person doing chest compressions.

So I'm doing the chest compressions. Everybody goes to do their thing and Then the senior resident that our boss if you will Walks in in the middle of the fact. I mean I realize I have this human being's life underneath my hands and He asked the team Hey guys, when this is all over, where are we going for pizza? And I start thinking to myself, do I want pepperoni? At which point, I pull myself back from the abyss. I felt like I was getting ready to go over the cliff having forgotten everything I had spent the last 20 years trying to do. And thank God I had that experience because I knew that life is much more valuable than thinking about

pizza. Deist You know, I remember you telling me that story. I have thought about it often since then. And I actually was thinking about it last night, thinking about visiting with you for the podcast today. And I bet if Pew Research did a poll, and the simple question was, how many of you hate going to the doctor? It would be way in the 90s. Everybody hates going to the doctor. Dr. Justin Marchegiani I don't like going to the doctor. Dr. Justin Marchegiani Yeah. Let me ask, do you like going to the doctor? Do you like going to the doctor?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani Let it be known that Alex's girls do not like going to the doctor. Alex, do you like going to the doctor? No, at least they get lollipops when they go. I don't get lollipops. Nobody likes going to the doctor. And the reason I think people don't like going to the doctor is because it's a place where you have to be vulnerable and nobody likes to be vulnerable. Because you're entrusting your essence, your health, to a human being who you really don't usually typically

have a very intimate relationship with. It's more of a professional relationship. And you have to be as vulnerable to this person who you don't have intimacy with about anything that's hurting you, bothering you, whatever. And I also think it's an unequal power relationship. And it is an unequal power relationship because you are beholden to their opinion. And when you when you think about that and you pair that with your story, I shudder to think that my life, my existence

may be in somebody's hands one day who instead of considering the gravity of the situation of my life, they may be thinking about sausage versus pepperoni. So this is what I refer to as the religion of medicine, because medicine is a religion unto itself. Every doctor- Not a faith, a religion. A religion, absolutely. Every doctor I know, when they go to medical school, they're asked the question, why do you wanna be a doctor?

Every last one of them says, because I wanna help people. Now along the way, things change. And they get interested in the money and the issue of power. And they are pulled away from these issues. That same time as a medical student, I was on rounds and one of my other medical students starts presenting a patient to the attending and goes into the things this woman liked and what mattered to her in her life.

The attending stops her and says, young lady, I think you have gotten too close to your patient. You can't get too close to your patient. You can't get too close to a patient. Trying to understand the things that make that person care about life is what medicine should be about. It can't just be about having the right medicine or making a diagnosis. But truthfully, so many of us view doctors as having this God complex. And it comes from, I think, that inequity of power and the vulnerability we have to have to someone who is going to direct the things we do with our lives that could or

could not extend our lives or make our lives better. And I think intrinsically we get that most of our doctors don't know or care about us. I don't know if that's true for most of them, but there's definitely an issue. I'm sorry to say that. Let me rephrase that. Many don't. And I think that's where that, I don't want to go to the doctor comes from, all of what we're talking about. Well, the other part about this is in America, particularly, we have developed an unholy love affair with technology. We've come to believe that

I can live my life any way I want to, and it doesn't matter. Because when I'm broken, the doctor could fix me by using the technology. But I'm here to tell you, the technology is not that good. The doctor is not that smart. You know, God gave us this body for a reason, and we have an obligation to take care of it. Okay. So, with that perspective, with the perspective as you as a 14-year-old, absent the no-hitter, which is a cool story, but really doesn't fit anywhere, but we're not editing it out because that's a cool story. Yale, now Emory, you've had these experiences, you even felt yourself coming off the edge of what drove you to medicine in the first place and you get pulled back and you see Memphis is the poorest city and

you have this idea of faith and health being undeniably intertwined and that true care has to talk about body and spirit simultaneously. And so in your infinite wisdom for a really smart guy, you moved to Memphis knowing nobody. Not one person. I came totally just selling out of an empty cart, knocking on doors. So I came to start something that was going to be called Church Health Center, have a cross in its logo, led by a Methodist minister, me. I needed money to get our doors open because it's a true charity.

And you're a doctor. And I'm a doctor. But I went to the most obvious place for funding. Churches. A Jewish family foundation. I would have said, of course, churches. You say a Jewish family foundation. That's right.

Or a Christian-based health clinic. The Plough Foundation gave the first dollars to support an open church health. That is phenomenal. It is. And I love telling the story because church health is about engaging people in the fullness and richness of life. So, in the New Testament, Paul, who writes a significant part of the New Testament, tells us that we see through a glass darkly. You know, what I think that means is that none of us have all the answers. We need each other. Diversity in all its forms is a good thing. So the fact that a Jewish family foundation

supported church health, you know, Temple Israel is one of our biggest supporters, but our Muslim doctors throughout the city are huge volunteers for us. We have enormous support from the Hindu community in Memphis. Muslim, Hindu, I don't care, Christian, but the reason church health exists is because every faith community out there understands what I'm talking about. From a Christian standpoint, the call to discipleship, you want to follow Jesus, you're expected to do three things, to preach, to teach, and to heal. You do not get to take a pass on the healing part. If you claim to be a Christian, do you really want to at the end of time have God look at you in the face and say to you, did you think I was kidding about all that healing stuff?

That's probably not what you want to have to answer for, is it? If you want to claim to be a Christian, then you have to find a way to be engaged in a healing ministry. If you don't do it, you're ignoring a third of the gospel. And again, I blame Descartes for all of this. We'll be right back. More Than a Movie is back with season two of the award-winning film podcast and this time with a lot more movies.

I'm your host, Alex Fumero, and each week I'm going to talk to the people behind some of my favorite movies. From the godfather, Andy Garcia. He has the smarts of Vito, the temper of Sonny, the warmth of Fredo, and the coldness of Michael. To the OG spy kid, Alexa PenaVega. You had Carlo Gugino, who's the coolest mom ever. You had Antonio, who's handsome, amazing, charismatic, and then Carmen and Juni.

I felt like a lot of other kids felt like this could be me. To the legend behind La Bamba, Lou Diamond Phillips. When I walked in, I didn't think I had a shot at Richie, because John Stainless's picture was already up on the wall. Every episode will feature interviews with the biggest actors, directors, writers, and producers behind your favorite films

and tap into the history of Latinos in film. Listen to More Than a Movie as part of the MyCultura podcast network available on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. My simple solution to the problem was remove people from the scene and help them feel safer. In response to attacks against Asian Americans, Maddie Park

raised over $250,000 to donate cab rides to the Asian community. There is so much more work to be done. We really need to come together and tackle this issue as a community. Support the Asian community. Learn how at LoveHasNoLabels.com. Brought to you by Love Has No Labels and the Ad Council. Welcome to season nine of Next Question with me, Katie Couric.

It is 2024 and we're going to get through this together, folks. My campaign promise to all of you here on Next Question is going to be a good time the whole time, we hope. I have some big news to share with you on our season premiere featuring Kris Jenner, who's got some words of wisdom for me on being a good grandmother, or in her case, a good lovey. You know, you start thinking of what you want your grandmother name to be. Like, are they going to call me grandma like I called my grandmother? So I got to choose my name, which is now Lovey. I'll also be joined by Hillary Clinton, Renee Fleming, Liz Cheney, to name a few.

So come on in and take a break from the incessant negativity for a weekly dose of fascinating conversations. Some of them, I promise, will actually put you in a good mood. I loved it. Your energy and joy. I'm squeezing every minute I can for you out of this season of Next Question. Last question, I promise. You have to go, I have to go. But it's been so fun. And I can't wait for you to hear it. Listen to Next Question with me, Katie Couric, on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your

podcasts. So, you knock on doors in Memphis, and your first financial supporter for this idea is for a Christian-based health center is a Jewish foundation. Dr. Bolling-The other, then Methodist Hospital also gave us $100,000 to get our doors open. And then I found my way to St. John's Methodist Church at that point. Dr. Reagan Which is Midtown Memphis, old school Midtown Memphis. Dr. Bolling-At that point led by a pastor who had been very involved in the civil rights movement.

At the time of the sanitation workers' strike, he played this role of shuttle diplomacy between the mayor's camp and the king's camp. But when he came to St. John's, for me, ironically, St. John's was once known as the doctor's church, but it had been devastated by white flight. It was a dying church. And this pastor, Frank McRae, preached a sermon that he titled, The Queen is Dead. And his point was that St. John's had to give up the concept of being a queen church and

become a servant church. And so my coming along, wanting to start a health ministry made perfect sense. So he took me under his wing, and then he went hat and glove to Central Church and their pastor Jimmy Latimer. Now these two churches theologically could not be further apart. But Frank convinced Latimer for his church to also give us $100,000 to help us renovate a building. And so with that, we got started and we saw 12 patients the first day were open, September

1st, 1987. So, let's talk about those patients because as people are listening to this crazy story, the idea was also to serve people in a professional way, medically and spiritually through medicine that otherwise we're getting no medical service of any kind. Can you explain that? So in 1987, when we opened, there were 26 million uninsured Americans. Almost all of them were working in low wage jobs that didn't offer health insurance. So it seemed to me that if we were going to use the resources of people of faith, not

depending on the government, the reason we don't depend on federal funding is the government cannot do the work of the church and neither should we ask it to. So either we raise the money to do this work or we have to let the doors close. But in 1997, there were 26 million uninsured Americans almost all working. And so that became our focus. And it continues to be that way today. So we provide health care for the people who work to make our lives comfortable. They cook our food, take care of our children, wash our dishes, cut our grass.

One day dig our graves. They don't complain. Yet when they get sick, their options are very few. And you provide world-class, first-class health service? Our goal is to provide the same quality of care you would expect your mother to receive. So in 1987, I was the only doctor. There were seven of us.

We had a budget of $300,000. But immediately, we engaged physicians to be willing to volunteer their time, worked out a relationship with the hospitals that as long as the physician donates his or her time, we can admit people free of charge. There's not a problem somebody could have from the cradle to grave that we can't take care of. Today, we have a budget of $27 million. We have a thousand doctors who volunteer with us, along with

our staff physicians, and it's a wonder to behold. And what I learned is you want to take care of the working poor, the working uninsured poor. Define that because you do have a definition for it. You also have a definition for how they have to participate just a little bit. And I think this part is really key. Yeah, we're not a free clinic. I don't believe in free clinics. Why don't you believe in free? I've heard you say it 10 times. Poor people are not looking for a handout. They're looking for something they can afford. I mean, people tell me almost several times a week that I wouldn't come to Church Health if it

were free. It creates dignity in people with their ability to pay something. Which also is good for their spirit. Absolutely. No question about it. And so how we do this is a small miracle. If I can tell just for one story, I think it's reflective of how it works for us. So these days, as a doctor, I mostly see people in our walk-in clinic. So the criteria to come to walk-in

clinic is I'm sick today, I don't have health insurance. The cost is $40. It's the same no matter what your problem is. You got a cold, you got a broken bone, you're at death's doorstep. It's obviously a better deal the sicker you are, but for 40 bucks, pretty good deal no matter what. So I see this guy who is 50 years old and he works in concrete. Pray you never have to work in concrete. He comes, has a pain in his knee, and then I x-ray his knee, and if I showed it even to you guys, you would go, that ain't right. We know nothing about what a knee x-ray looks like, but you could look at that and go, uh-uh. You would go, there's something not right there.

So he needs his knee replaced. So we have the ability to have orthopedic surgeons who will do the surgery for free. And hospitals provide? As long as the physician's not getting paid, then the hospital's not going to charge a dime. Wow. But I need more than that. I need anesthesia, radiology, pathology.

You need the knee. And then I'm going to need the knee and all of that. Smith and Nephew is going to need the knee and all of that. Smith and Nephew is going to donate that. So we're ready to do his surgery, going to take away his pain. And then he asked me, will I have to miss work? For knee replacement? Maybe.

And you work in concrete. Yes, you're going to miss work." To which he then says to me, you know, for now, the duct tape works just fine. He was duct taping his knee. Right. You should not have to duct tape your knee to go to work in America. So we make a plan. He sees our physical therapist. One of the things that can get people back to work often is physical therapy, and that's never available to poor people, but we have

five physical therapists on our staff. So he sees a physical therapist, and we get him through the work season. We replace his knee in January when in Memphis you don't do a lot of concrete work. He comes back to physical therapy to get ready to go to work the next spring. Now, this is what many people refer to as church help magic, only it's not magic. What it is is what's possible when people are willing to come together to do the right thing.

How much should that cost him? So every time he comes to Church Health, he's going to have to pay $20 to $40. From that point on, once you need our subspecialist, then there's no charge. So this man got his knee replaced for... A couple of hundred bucks. That's unbelievable. It is unbelievable. It's something people wouldn't ever believe happens in the United States, but without the government, but it does. Yeah, because people are basically good and people are inclined to want to do the right thing. They just don't know how. So with our physicians, when we are asking them to volunteer, these days I have to hear about how terrible it is out there and

how awful the healthcare system is, but then they will come back and go, now what do you want me to do? And all I want from them is a few hours of their time, at which point they're willing to do that. Dr. Craig Huffman So I remember first visiting you in a maybe two or three story house or series of houses that were basically retrofitted into a doctor's offices over off, I guess, Peabody. On Peabody. In Midtown, right? In Midtown Memphis, right. Right.

And at that time, 10 years ago, how many patients were you seeing monthly or annually? I mean, we probably had 30,000 patients then. There are now 80,000 who depend on us. We don't see them every year, but if you go ask them, you know, where do you go to the doctor, they're going to say, I go to church health. So it was 30,000. So clearly a long way from a $300,000 initial budget, right? From a guy who showed up not knowing anybody and seeing 12 patients the first day to just that. And then I don't know where you went to business school because I didn't hear it, but you clearly have a lot of entrepreneurism in you.

You decided, yeah, sure, we're seeing 30,000 people, but Memphis and the Memphis area is a million, two or a million, three Memphis proper. There's a lot more than 30,000 working uninsured people around here. We need to scale up. But for that, you need bigger digs. Right. So? So we'd grown into 13 buildings. He'd become very inefficient 13 houses house Right. Yeah, they were literally houses That we had converted right with and not co-joined

They were houses so I guess you were walking across driveways to see different people. Yes, and some of them we had Connected together it was very much. It was a quagmire. A quagmire, right. Yeah. That's when I first saw it. Yeah. Right. Then on July 8th, 2011, so just over 13 years ago, a young art historian, the world's expert on the Renaissance painter, Peter Bruegel, who I know you know all about.

All about it. Oh, Peter Buegel. Bruegel. Bruegel. Yep. Anyway, so his name's Todd Richardson. Todd had come to me with the idea that he- Is he from Memphis?

He is from Mississippi. And he is the, he's what? What does- The world's expert on this painter, Peter Bruegel, who painted during the Renaissance. There's a world expert on a guy named Peter Bruegel. Who lives in Memphis. Of course he does. Why wouldn't he? Yeah, right.

Okay, so he... And he was teaching at the University of Memphis at the time. Okay. And he actually played football for Ole Miss, believe it or not. Well, then he's a great guy. Yeah. So then he's a great guy. So first of all, this is how these stories wag and wiggle. Church Health and an Ole Miss football player who is now the foremost expert on Peter Bruegel, a Renaissance artist, and UConnect.

Right. So he came to me with the idea that he and his artist friends had of turning what was once a Sears distribution center that had been abandoned since 1992, this building that was in square footage larger than the Empire State Building, but was abandoned in 1992. There were 3,200 windows. Every last one was broken. It was surrounded in 1992. There were 3,200 windows. Every last one was broken. It was surrounded in barbed wire. Hold it.

Time out. Everybody needs to hear me so I can set this up just a little bit. When you hear Sears Distribution Center, don't think metal buildings with trucks. Think what they built back in the 30s, which is huge concrete 10, 12 story structure with a big spire. I mean, think of a gothically inspired or I don't know, maybe even Art Nouveau inspired massive downtown type building, brick with cornerstones and all of that. That's what you're talking about.

Right. This building, if you were in a seven state area, if you ordered out a Sears catalog and anybody listening, if you're over 50, you know what I'm talking about. But for everybody listening, it's where your parents would at Christmas circle things and trying to convince their parents to buy that for them for Christmas. That's exactly right. It was the paper version of Amazon. Right.

It was Amazon before anybody thought of Amazon. That's right. But because of their failed business practices, they quit publishing the catalog in 1992. And as a result, they abandoned their distribution centers, including the one in 1992. And as a result, they abandoned their distribution centers, including the one in Memphis. It sat totally vacant. Every developer in Memphis tried to come up the way to repurpose it. The person known as Mr. Downtown in Memphis, his brilliant idea was, take a stick of dynamite to it. But even that was going to cost more money than anybody was willing to do.

So this building just sat totally vacant, just an incredible eyesore. The neighborhood around it had gone down significantly. How many windows? 3,200. Is that all? That's all. And everyone was broken. And everyone was broken.

And more than likely, vagrants live in it and all kinds of things. Well, not only that, the fire department used to practice in the building. They would set it afire and then go put it out. Wow. That was its only purpose. And so this Renaissance Ole Miss player guy. And then his artist friends, they got together and they wanted to redo the building and turn it into an artist colony.

Right. Trust me, that is not a financially viable idea. I mean, who in their right mind would want to put money into doing that? Especially something, an artist colony with greater square footage than the Empire State Building. Right. So they came to me just wanting Church Health to commit to being their doctors once they moved in here. That's all they were asking of us. That's hilarious. But on this day in July 8, 2011, rather than agreeing to do that, I said, well, what if we move in there with you?

So I married one crazy idea with another crazy idea. And I think you seem to appreciate how truly absurd it was that I thought that could work. Yeah. I mean mean it is stupid. It is ridiculous to think that this empty building that's been set on fire intentionally by the city of Memphis Fire Department for practice had no windows left. And honestly, the area around this building had gone away and it was not great. No, it was not great. And you're gonna put an artist colony and a faith-based health center in it without windows. And that concludes part one of my conversation with Dr. Scott Morris and

you do not want to miss part two that's now available. You'll get to hear how Scott not only helped transform that old Sears building, but also the entire city of Memphis with it. Together guys, we can change the country, and it starts with you. I'll see you in part two. I'll see you in part two.

Welcome to season nine of Next Question with me, Katie Couric. I've got some big news to share with you in our season premiere featuring the one and only Chris Jenner. Oh my gosh, congratulations. That is very, very exciting. And that's just the beginning. We'll also be joined by podcast host, Jay Shetty, Hillary Clinton, Renee Flemming, Liz Cheney, and many more. So come on in, take a break from the incessant negativity for a weekly dose of fascinating conversations. Some of them I promise will actually put you in a good mood. Listen to Next Question with me, Katie Couric, on the iHeart Radio app, Apple podcasts,

or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Hannah Storm and my new podcast, NBA DNA with Hannah Storm, chronicles my six decades in professional basketball, from growing up in the sport to becoming one of sports TV's first female broadcasters. Join me as I dig deep into the game's history, unearth some wild stories,

and talk to my friends from the world of basketball, from Dr. J to Charles Barkley. It's been a wild ride, and now I get to take you with me. Listen to NBA DNA with Hannah Storm on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. More Than a Movie is back with season two. I'm your host, Alex Fumero, and each week I'm going to talk to the people behind your favorite movies. From the Godfather, Andy

Garcia. He has the smarts of Vito, the temper of Sonny, the warmth of Fredo, and the coldness of Michael. To the legend behind La Bamba, Lou Diamond Phillips. When I walked in, I didn't think I had a shot at Richie because John Stamos' picture was already up on the wall. Listen to more than a movie on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.