An Army of Normal Folks - He Built a Confessional—But He Did the Confessing

Episode Date: September 11, 2026

At one of the most secular campuses in America, a group of Christians set up a confessionial booth during a wild campus party. But they weren't there to hear confessions. They were there to give them. Tony Kriz sat in that booth and apologized to skeptical strangers for the ways Christians had failed to love people. Students who came in ready to argue left having opened up about their own struggles.  This episode is a masterclass in what humility can do that arguments never will. ARMY ACTIONS Subscribe to the podcast and rate & review us! Signup to join the Army, visit NormalFolks.org Follow us on social media @ArmyofNormalFolks Join or start an ANF local service club at https://normalfolks.org/service-clubs/ Take The 10 Level Challenge, "the hero's journey for service" at 10LevelChallenge.org Support the show: https://www.normalfolks.us/#joinSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Hey, everybody. It's Bill Courtney from an Army of Normal folks, and welcome into the shop. You look it around like a goofball. Welcome in, Alex. Thank you, Bill. How are you? I'm doing well. Good. I actually got to work out with F3 Memphis this morning. Did you really? Because I stayed overnight. Did you really? Yeah. How did that guy? How many people were there? There was seven of us. It was at Overton Park. Did they give you a nickname? Oh, no. You keep your nickname. wherever you go.

Oh, so what is your... The Fonz. We've got some stories for you. Thanks, John. I got some stories for you. So they show us mine because, so my middle name is Alfano, which I'll get made of front of her kid. My grandfather's from Columbia, so is his name.

Got it. But one of the guys here today, his name was Alter Boy. And I asked, like, what are you Catholic? He's like, no, the first girl I made out with was in a church pew. Alter Boy. Yeah, Alter Boy. Oh, the first. Fuzz. All right, so listen to our F3 episode, if you haven't already.

Yeah, if you want to know what that's all about, listen to the episode because it's awesome. Today is ShopTot number 120, and it actually comes from an interview we were just doing, and as a side note, a story we're going to share with you that I think is, one, kind of hilarious, but two, there's really some depth to it that I think that matters. and we're going to call it. He built a confessional, but he did the confessing. So we'll get to that. But first, 120 years ago, what happened in 1906, Alex?

Oh, you actually got it right, 1906. Yeah, I could do bad. Well, that's kind of pretty easy for you. Yeah, 120. All right. Let's see what math you can do. The San Francisco earthquake and fire, which I don't know anything about. So on April 18th, a massive earthquake.

I mean, maybe I briefly heard about it, but. It leveled the city and then burned it to the ground. Destroyed much of San Francisco and roughly 3,000 people died. Which back then was a ton. Yeah, I mean, it's still a ton. It's still a ton. But I mean, back then, that was like a third of the population, I think. It was a big deal.

And then the Atlanta Race Massacre. The what? The Atlanta Race Massacre, which similarly, maybe I've heard of, but don't remember much or at all. So in September of 1906, white mobs attacked. black Atlans following sensational and false newspaper reports about assaults about assaults by black men and white women at least 25 black people were killed with some estimates higher it became an important episode in the history of American racial violence I did not I'm kind of ashamed I didn't know the story I'm further ashamed about the story wasn't that great why we do this show

I mean we're both learning a lot too not only from our guests but honestly I'm learning a lot from doing this maybe this history lessons on that yeah All right. That's anything else from a 20 years? That's it. All right. So when we're back. Two negative things.

Geez. What? Two negative things today. Yeah. Really, this is still enlightening. But it gets better. After brief messages from our generous sponsors, we'll be back on. He built a confessional, but he did the confessing.

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We've been catching up with some great friends, Paul Rudd, Michael Boubley, Seth Myers, Nile Horan, Jake Shane. and making some new friends while getting into what's really like to have sisters, like Alex and Ashton Earl. She likes to control everyone and tell everyone what to do.

Okay, well, control is a harsh word. I would say that's a harsh word. I am more outspoken. Growing up a lot of the times because she was so quiet, I would speak for, like, the both of us. Now I'm working on, like, thinking a moment, reeling it in, thinking before I speak. And Joey King.

You know if your, like, mom is yelling at your sibling, and even if you're annoyed with your sibling, you just like won't let that slide. It's like only you can yell at your sibling. I'm like, you can't do that here. That is, you want to talk about her like that. Only I talk about her like that. Plus, we've been taking your calls,

listening to your voicemails and giving advice. Or at least trying to. So if you've got catching up to do, now's the perfect time. Listen to Hey Jonas on the Iheart radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts. If your bookshelf and your for you page are equally important to your personality,

welcome home. This is Prose Society, the weekly podcast that's part book club, part group chat for thought daughters, pop culture obsesives, and anyone who thinks Pride and Prejudice and Love Island deserve the same level of discourse. I'm Eli Rallo and every week we're connecting the dots between books, the internet, and the conversations everyone can't stop having. I'm going to have to look up this story. I'm obsessed. From bestselling authors and your favorite book talk creators to the latest pop culture moments, nothing is off the table. It's like if you can hide some real messages inside compelling characters, then that is a Trojan horse.

Whether you're looking for literary deep dives, smart pop culture conversations, or a community of readers who love to think a little too much, you're in the right place. Listen to Pro Society on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. See you between the pages. On the new podcast Solita, we share the messy reality of traveling alone, as a woman. I can wait four hours for the next bus or this random dude is offering me a ride on his motorcycle. I chose option B. I'm Julie Pinero and I travel by myself because it's a rare space where I can say yes without asking anyone else first. I'm on a mission to reclaim the word

solita, trading the pity for possibility. Every time I tried to be alone, I kept meeting people and they were like, you smiled at us. Not a lot of people smile around here. It's when you're alone that you're most receptive to the world as it is and not the lies you're sold about it. It can be a time where you push your limits, change your mind, or wake up to a new version of yourself. So whether you're a solo travel veteran or you're too nervous to book your first trip, I hope you listen to Solita on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. When I was 14 years old, I was kidnapped and held captive for nine months. I I've survived, and I've spent my life exploring how other people survive what should have destroyed them.

I'm Elizabeth Smart, and these are the Survivor Files. I just remember this low, taunting voice next to my ear saying, shut up, don't say anything. Every week, I'm with survivors who live through the unthinkable. I knew if he woke up, without a doubt, he was going to hurt me. I started feeling that there was someone. at the end of my bed, and I just started screaming. They are abducted, stalked, controlled, and nearly silenced. But these aren't stories about what's taken from them.

They're stories about what it takes to make it out alive. Listen to the Survivor Files with Elizabeth Smart on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. All right, everybody, welcome back to Shop Talk number 120. So we're going to play a clip for you. from an interview we did that we recorded kind of an off-the-cuff conversation. And I think it's important to set up that this happened on a campus in Portland that was, still maybe it's Reed College, a very, very, very progressive campus where

faith is not only ignored, it may be even more aboard. And to set this up, he set up this confessional in the middle of a festival, man. Just let it roll, baby. Well, I mean, you know, there you go. So just make that as a background. Do you ever remember who the guest was who were featuring? No. 24 hours later, we recorded this yesterday. What was his name? Tony Chris. I know, Doug. Tony Chris. T-R-I-Z-Z. It's kind of like, can't remember what you had for dinner yesterday. I can't remember what I did before I showed up here. So this is Tony Chris when he built a...

We love you, Tony, even though Billy can't remember your name. Yeah, when he built this confessional, the story's awesome. And then Alex and I are going to chat a little bit after you hear the clip. So here you go. Pay attention to this story. It's pretty cool. I was asked to be the volunteer chaplain at Reed College. Reid has been written up in multiple college university periodicals as the most liberal,

most likely to ignore God, most likely to hate religion, campus in America. It's a little liberal arts college in the southeast part of Portland. I loved it. I walked on campus. I walked on campus and there were three students out of 2000 who on any level were willing to like even whisper that they might be. kind of Christian or kind of Bible lovers or whatever, Jesus lovers. And I loved it.

We had this little tiny community, and our little community of three quickly grew to five, and I won't tell all the machinations of it, but at the end of my second full year there, there's this celebration they do every year called the Renfair, the Renaissance Fair, and this hyper-liberal school. It's one of the most challenging schools in America. every senior has to write a dissertation even though it's an underclass even though even though it's not a graduate school

and so they do this Renaissance Fair at the end of the Renaissance Fair everybody throws their dissertation into the library and this whole thing but for the long weekend of the Renaissance Fair this is back this is 25 years ago they do a weekend of unrestrained

human experimentation just herds of naked people running around campus they this is back then the school would look away

post centuries on the outskirts of the campus and basically let hallucinogenics anything experienced on campus and everyone goes crazy for three days Renaissance Fair the students

asked me or said, we want to participate in Renaissance Fair. And we want to do it as people of faith, but also in harmony with Renaissance Fair. We don't want it to be some weird. And so we went around around. I won't bore you with the whole story, but after a couple weeks of conversation,

we landed on, we'll Renaissance, the Renaissance era, when the Catholic Church was a profound character in society, we decided to build a freestanding confession booth right in the middle of the action in between the hallucinit, hallucinetic tent, and the fire battle. We built a freestanding plywood, two-sided,

like basically two foam booths stuck together with one side you open up, And the other side, there's a curtain and there's a priest standing. I dressed in a monk robe. You're not even Catholic either, Tony. I'm not. Candles lit. And we painted the outside with religious symbols.

And the students had cowbells, and they walked around the midst of people like on mad trips and everything that was going on. Ringing cowbells is saying, confessions being heard, come to the confession booth now. Confessions being heard. And I remember the first time Friday night as I'm standing in. there. I was scared out of my mind. It's like, this is so bad. I mean, first of all, being in a wooden box next to a fire battle. It's not a great idea. But I'm like, this is not good. Like, Reed students are brilliant. They're like all smarter than me. And they all hate what I represent right now. And so the first, the first student comes in like, oh, what's going on in here?

Comes in. I opened up the curtain and I said, hi, welcome to the confession booth. this is where confessions are heard. If it's okay, I'd like to begin. First of all, I need to confess that I'm not a priest. I'm just a guy. But I am a Christian. And my spiritual family, Christianity, has been the purveyors of evil for centuries.

And I would like to ask your forgiveness. Would you forgive us for the Crusades and the Inquisition? Would you forgive us for our participation in slavery? Would you forgive us for our participation? in wars and the ways that we've fostered racism in the world, would you forgive us for colonialism? Would you forgive us? And right now in our society, we're more divided than ever,

and my family, my cousins, my uncles and aunts in the faith are making it happen, are making the world worse for you. Would you forgive me, me, one Christian, would you just forgive me for that? And finally, would you forgive me because I claim to follow Jesus and yet I don't look like him at all? I don't love you like I should. I've never even met you.

I don't even know your name. I've been on this campus two years. Jesus would have known your name, and I don't. I have screwed this whole thing up. I'd like to ask your forgiveness. Would you please forgive me? Just one Christian, would you forgive me? The kid looks for me and he goes,

that is the most effing, beautiful thing I've ever heard in my entire life. And then he started to cry. And then he goes, my dad used to be crappy when I was eight. And I don't know what to do. I'm all, and then we talked about it. I talked to him about some thoughts that Jesus might have when he was going through. And at the end, we like hugged over the railing of the window. Then he left.

As soon as he was gone, three more girls came in and packed in in the space. They didn't know what they were there for either. And I said, hi, it's convention booth. Here's where confessions are heard. It's okay, I'd like to begin. First of all, I'm not a priest. Secondly, I'm a Christian, and I'd like to apologize for my things. religious family. I did the thing again. Got done. They were like, we forgive you. Thank you.

And then they started going, I've been giving my body away in ways that I'm uncomfortable with, and I'm afraid for my future. And then we talked. And then we shook hands, and I talked to them a little about Jesus. And they left, and then all week and long, that side was never empty. And every conversation was about Jesus. And every conversation, every time I was forgiven. It was unbelievable. Every time, I forgive you. I forgive you for it all. That was normally what they said.

I forgive you for it all. What do you think about that? I'd rather hear what you want to think about it first. Well, actually, even when Tony was telling it, I was a little conflicted. And here's why. John Calvin said, we can't repent for another man's sentence. And so as he was telling that story, I was conflicted because I'll be honest with you.

I do think the church sinned with colonialism. I do think the church sinned with slavery. And by the way, not just the American church. The American church, the British church. The British church. I mean, the South African church. I mean, the South American church. church. It's, it's, you know, when we talk slavery, everybody's mind immediately goes to American slavery, but we do need to realize that slavery was going on in the Roman Empire. It has been a scourge of humanity for thousands of years. But for the church's involvement in it, it was sinful.

colonialism, the church's involvement in so much of what happened there, the church's involvement in the church that was on the wrong side of the civil rights movement. It goes on and on. And as a Christian, I worry that there are people in the world who don't even give our faith a chance

because of the history of the church's involvement in things that are simply not Christ-like. And so I get the sense that that needs to be said out loud. It needs to be washed off. But in the same respect, I can't repent for what people did when I wasn't even there. That was one. That's interesting.

I didn't see that coming. You saying that it makes sense, but. What, you didn't? No, I didn't see that coming from you. I mean, I have heard you say that line before. Yeah. But I didn't see it coming. What did you think?

I think you were going to be all about it and just agree with it entirely. I do agree with all of the premise. I just don't think because the narrative is specifically confessional, where you repent, I don't think we can repent for it. I think we need to understand it. I think we need to be honest about it. I think we need to reveal it. I think we need to wash of it.

I think we do admit it. I just don't know how we repent from it because you can't repent for what someone else did. Right. But I get it. The idea of the confessional was not really the repentance. It was the conversation. The second thing I loved from it is how inherently human, grace and redemption is when you first open the door to the opportunity for grace and redemption

by painful, real, transparent honesty. And I love Tony's start with, you know, this is what I confess was wrong. will you forgive me? And on a campus that is decidedly anti-Christian and kids that were involved in debauchery during the weekend, for them to just with open honesty immediately say, yeah, man, I can get over that. Thanks for your honesty. Thanks for saying that.

Thanks for acknowledging what we knew, but being willing to acknowledge out loud. and then their immediate lowering of their barriers and disdain, I think is a beautiful story. But how does it pertain to what we do is regardless of how deep divides are and how difficult a person's life may have been, And as long as there's sun in the sky and air to breathe, there's an opportunity every day for redemption. There's an opportunity every day for improvement. There's an opportunity every day for reconciliation.

And there's an opportunity every day for our culture to figure out what ails us and fix it. If an army of normal folks simply comes together to serve honestly, openly, and for the right reasons barriers fall and things get better and reconciliation happens and i think that confessional story from tony is a microcosmic metaphor of what an army of normal folks can be and do for this country that's what i thought about it yeah um i think two things to add it kind of reminds me to when we interviewed our Nate larkin from the samson society you know the guy who had the sex addiction for 20 years and for five of those was a pastor. Wow.

And then the sex addict. Yeah. For five of them. And he then started the support groups that have 600 of them around the country. You have held 25,000 men. And he says, like when he tells a story, he becomes the safest person in any room. Once he starts by telling his story, it gives people the opportunity to share theirs. And Tony did a very similar thing with this, by him confessing first and then opened up for the opportunity for all.

Remember he said the example of like the girl's like I'm uncomfortable with the way I'm giving away my body right now to other people It made the space for her then to you know respond in kind That is really a good point that is really a good perspective because that's exactly what Tony was doing It was making it safe for other people to lower their guard It's a really good point and obviously there's worse racism in the past But you know as you've talked about in the podcast before too like your friends like Aaron Hayden I think it was Aaron I remember Aaron's name.

Yeah. But like his kids, you know, having the conversation with them about being pulled over as a black person and, you know, that they were pulled over in occasions that they shouldn't have been. And actually, one of the examples that really... That is blatant racism, by the way. And it's a horrific thing that a professional father... Former football player, right? Wasn't he a former professional football player? Yeah, he's got a NFC championship ring.

And forget all that. He's an executive. He's an executive in three or four, he's moved on to different companies, but three or four pharmaceutical companies. I mean, he is a, his three children all went to some of the best private schools in the city of Memphis,

and they live in the suburbs in a beautiful big house. And he still had to teach his sons to be very, very careful and further place from their bulldog. My kids grew up the same way. We grew up in the same neighborhoods. My kids went the same school and it never dawned on me to tell my children that. That is the truth about what still exists in our society today around race.

And it makes me sick that Aaron taught his sons that. And I called Aaron out on it once. I said, Aaron, that's, that's, why would you teach your sons that? And he sat my hat down and explained it to me. And, yeah, it's tough. One of the cases that was really enlightening for me is Tim Scott, the Black Republican Center from South Carolina. A couple of years ago, he gave a speech.

And he said, I've been pulled over like 15 times for nothing. Just because I saw a black man driving. And so he's like, I didn't do anything wrong. And so, yeah, I mean, obviously we still have the vestiges of it today. And obviously, plenty of those, you know, police officers or Christians Right? So there are still things. That's the point. There are still things in the present moment. This just isn't a past thing. There are things in the present moment that still need to be apologized for. And even, you know, as a Catholic, obviously, the, you know, of sexual abuse, you know, scandals that the church, you know, is the perpetrator of. And I totally understand your point about I didn't personally do it. But still, I think of creating a conversation and a relationship with somebody, it is interesting to start it off that way. And you're basically, I'm sorry that this happened to you. Oh, I think you can apologize.

I think you can identify. I think you have to be honest about it and expose the truth about it, even if it's something near your heart. I just mean specifically I don't think you can attune for the sins of someone else. That's all. Or an organization. I think it's impossible. But I do get the point.

And again, Just like you said about the Catholic Church, I mean, that's a huge one. And how how devastating has that been to churches being able to grow their congregations? I mean, we're on worst enemy is what I'm saying. Yeah. Forget growing. How about dying? Like Chicago where I'm from, 50% of the population used to be Catholic, which is wild.

Now it's like 25%. So literally millions of people have left the Catholic. church in Chicago. It's terrible. Yeah. But the question is why. And I would argue it's not Jesus. It's not the faith. It's we humans that screw it up. And that's the power of Tony's confessional to say, we are failed. We know it. Please forgive us. And it just lowers barriers and allows people to have conversations and allows for grace, then allows for redemption and i think that's very important as we think about an army of normal folks because an army of normal folks does not all look like one race one faith one creed and one political belief it

can't work if that's it so for us to come together as an army of normal folks to fix what else is it has to be a big tent and for it to be a big comfortable tent we have to be honest about where we come from actually i wasn't even thinking about the other examples until you said that but we could really use that in our politics. Like, both sides are terrible at. Like, say you're a Republican, like, why aren't you admitting the faults of Donald Trump and calling him out, right? Or same thing of things on the left, right?

And, like, we're just not intellectually honest enough and, like, game to go there. We have to be. Or you lose credibility in any conversation with someone doesn't agree with you. Because if you're not going to admit the obvious faults, you immediately lose credibility. And when you use credibility, how can you have an open honest conversation? So that's what Tony showed us through the confessional he built, and I love it. So that's it. That's shop thought number 120.

I hope it's something for you to guys think about. We're not leaving you with some parole of wisdom, just maybe some thoughts to noodle on this week. So if you enjoyed this episode, rate it review it. If you didn't enjoy it, don't rate it interview it. Just leave it. Keep it to yourself. Buy our merch. Write me anytime.

at bill at normalfolks. If you have ideas for shop talk, let me know. If you have ideas for guests on an army of mom folks, let me and Alex know. Sign up to join the army at normalfolks.org. Join us to our service club. Join a service club. Start one.

What else? That's it. Let's roll, baby. All right, everybody. Let's start talk number 120. We'll see you next week. I believe that whoever was in that room and did that was a murderer. A new podcast series, Faultline Haditha, tells the story of a shocking crime and a cover-up at the highest levels of the United States Marine Corps.

If you've got five players and you offer immunity to four, you better be right about the fifth. Because if you're not, then you've just given immunity to your killer. Listen to Faultline Haditha on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. On Big Lives, we take a single cultural icon. People like Jane Fonda, George Michael, Little Richard. And we pull apart the story behind the image, discovering forgotten interviews that changed exactly how we see these giants of our culture. We're here for the messy, the brilliant, the human version of our heroes. I'm Emmanuel Jochi.

I'm Kai Wright. And this is Big Lives. Listen to Big Lives on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. In February of 2024, celebrated illustrator and children's book author Patra Mathers and her husband Michael mailed letters to dozens of friends and family. members to let them know they had died by suicide. Dear honies, this is goodbye. By the time you get to Shletter, both Petra and I will be dead. Next stop, Wonderland.

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And Open Igloo co-founder, Alia Mohamed. I love staying on top of what is going on in our city, what is on renter's minds, and taking all of that knowledge to build a platform that hopefully is going to make New York City better in the long run. Listen to Here's the Thing on the IHeart Radio app Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. It's the U.S. Open, which means the tennis world is about to lose its mind. and I'm here for every second of it. Join me, Renee Stubbs, on the Renee Stubbs tennis podcast as I break it all down. The matches that matter, the drama that doesn't,

and the stories everyone's talking about. No cliches, no sugar-coding, just host analysts from someone who's actually been there. Coco looking real good. Her serve looks so much smoother than it has in the past. I was really happy to see Eager back to what she looked like a couple of years ago when she was winning dominantly. Listen to the Renee Stubbs Tennis podcast on the IHart Radio app. Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.