An Army of Normal Folks - HIGHLIGHTS: How $1 Can Erase $100 of Medical Debt in Your Community

Episode Date: August 18, 2026

1 out of every 3 Americans carries medical debt. It's the #1 cause of bankruptcy in the country - and the single greatest predictor of whether you end up in it isn't your income or your insurance. It's whether or not you get sick. Allison Sesso is a normal person leading an abnormal (and awesome) nonprofit doing something about it. Undue Medical Debt has erased nearly $50 billion in medical debt for over 31 million people!  In this episode, she breaks down exactly what to do if you get a bill you can't afford, why you should never put medical debt on a credit card, how debt collectors acquire debt for pennies on the dollar, how they’ve flipped this very same model on its head to abolish debt, and how you can partner with them to erase a crazy amount of medical debt in your community. ARMY ACTIONS Subscribe to the podcast and rate & review us! Signup to join the Army, visit NormalFolks.org Follow us on social media @ArmyofNormalFolks Join or start an ANF local service club at https://normalfolks.org/service-clubs/ Take The 10 Level Challenge, "the hero's journey for service" at 10LevelChallenge.orgSupport the show: https://www.normalfolks.us/#joinSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

The problem in medical debt is huge in the United States. It affects one in three people. It's the number one cause of bankruptcy. And it's at least a $220 billion problem. More than 100 million Americans carry medical debt. And the single largest predictor of medical debt, it isn't what you think. Number one predictor of whether or not you end up in medical debt is not your income level. It's not your insurance.

It's whether or not you get sick. And that is part of the burden that people are clearly carrying where we can. hear from individuals. They feel like failures, like they did something wrong when something actually happened to that. Today's guest is Allison Sesso, president and CEO of Undue Medical Debt. She has helped scale a once small nonprofit into an organization that has raised almost $50 billion in medical debt for 31 million Americans. We buy medical debt for pennies on the dollar. And, And we use donated dollars to do that $1, it gets rid of $100 of medical debt, and we erase it.

That's insane. In this episode, you'll learn what to do when a medical bill arrives. How to look for financial assistance. Question the charges. Negotiate what you owe and avoid turning protected medical debt into more expensive credit card debt. Most importantly, do not put it on a credit card. That's the one I wanted you to say loud and proud. Take that again.

Do not put it on your credit card. You'll also learn how ordinary people, you know, normal folks, are partnering with undue medical debt to erase medical debt in their community and how you can do this in your community. We've had over a thousand churches work with us, and collectively they've gotten rid of $10 billion of medical debt. $10 billion. Yes, that's correct. $100,000 could get rid of $10 million in debt. Yes, that's correct. This is Army of Normal Folks, where our mission is to make service easier.

first all and together change the country. You've heard the chaos. Now you can see it. Do we want to jump right in? Watch all your favorite podcasts from start to finish right inside the free IHard Radio app. Make some noise. Wooee! Catch every laugh

and eye roll on shows like Bestie Listen. Hey Jonas and Las Coulsuristas. Now with full video. I'll just leave that there. It's the same hosts and the same chemistry with all the hilarious moments you've been missing right on your screen. Open the If your bookshelf and your 4-U page are equally important to your personality, welcome home.

This is Prose Society, the weekly podcast that's part book club, part group chat for thought daughters, pop culture obsesives, and anyone who thinks pride and prejudice and love island deserve the same level of discourse. I'm Eli Rallo and every week we're connecting the dots between books, the internet, and the conversations everyone can't stop having. I'm going to have to look up this story. I'm obsessed. From bestselling authors and your favorite book talk creators to the latest pop culture moments, nothing is off the table. It's like if you can hide some real messages

inside compelling characters, then that is the Trojan horse. Whether you're looking for literary deep dives, smart pop culture conversations, or a community of readers who love to think a little too much, you're in the right place. Listen to pro society on the Iheart radio app

Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. See you between the pages. When I was 14 years old, I was kidnapped and held captive for nine months. I survived and I've spent my life exploring how other people survive what should have destroyed them. I'm Elizabeth Smart and these are the Survivor Files. I just remember this low, taunting voice next to my ear saying shut up. Don't say anything. Every week I'm with survivors who live through the unthinkable.

I knew if he woke up, without a doubt, he was going to hurt me. I started feeling that there was someone at the end of my bed, and I just started screaming. They are abducted, stalked, controlled, and nearly silenced. But these aren't stories about what's taken from them. There's stories about what it takes to make it out alive. Listen to the Survivor Files with Elizabeth Smart on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Hoda Kotbby, host of the podcast, Joy 101 with Hoda Kotbby. If you know me, you know, I'm always searching for inspiration and useful tools to maximize joy.

So this podcast lets us uncover those things together through meaningful conversations with fascinating people. Like one of my friend Henry Winkler offered advice to aspiring actors and really anybody hoping to stand out. You're not hired just to fill time and space. You're hired to fill the space with you. You have something in your guts. You go with it. And Sean Johnson recalled the moment she realized her now husband, Andrew, was the one. He was just so unapologetically himself and knew nothing of Hollywood.

He hadn't been on a plane before without his family. It was so pure. Listen to Joy 101 with Hoda Kotby on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. All right, everybody. We have super exciting news coming at you. I mean, Alice is excited about it, but I'm not sure how excited I am. The podcast is now live on YouTube, which means now you get to see me in case you prefer watching it there. and we're switching up the audio format of the podcast.

You can now either listen to the full version of the podcast on the same episode, meaning you no longer have to go to part one and part two to hear a whole episode we got going, or you can listen to a 30-minute version of the podcast that will be labeled as highlights. And we get it. Many listeners who aren't as into long-form podcast or struggle to find the time to listen to the whole thing each week have requested something like this. And so Alex got off his butt and we finally created it. We're really not perfect. Nobody is.

But we really do try to take in all of your feedback and advice. We hope to create a product that makes service easier for you. and all of us. So check it out. And keep it coming. You can email us anytime at normalfolks.org, and we will respond. Now, let's go to the episode. Everybody, Allison is the president and CEO of undue medical debt.

And I'm just going to say, when I read about you, I was really disappointed when you didn't come the first time because I was excited, but now I'm double excited because I'm I think what you're doing is really creative and interesting and scalable and applicable in just about any corner of our country. So I can't wait to get into it. Great. But I do want to compliment you on the creativity of what you've done to actually make such a big dent in people's lives with so little. Thanks. I appreciate that.

Although I will say I do hope for a day where I don't have to exist because medical debt is not something I hope we have to have forever. One of our listeners, Robin Horton, emailed us that her church just abolished every available dollar of medical debt in their region over the last year. Yes. How is that possible? Yeah. So I think you're talking about the good. The simple church. The simple church.

Yes, the simple church. But they have a name of their project that's called the good. The do good, yes, exactly. pastor? Yes. So they're, they're incredible. They have raised, I think they've done, where are they? They're in Louisiana. Okay. They have raised twice out, outpaced themselves. So I think the first time they tried to raise, or at least the last time in 2025, they tried to raise $25,000, and they ended up raising over $50,000. And then they tried to raise $50,000 and raised like $113,000. And because of that, they've been able to wipe out $13.2,000.

million dollars of medical debt with those dollars. And I know that sounds outrageous, but that's what our model does. We buy medical debt for pennies on the dollar and we use donated dollars to do that one dollar. It gets rid of $100 of medical debt and we erase it. That's insane. Just hearing that $130 or $40,000 or $50,000 can make $13 million and burdensome debt go away, how that works we're going to get into. But I think it's first, I think it's important for our listeners to understand how bad is the problem of medical debt, really? It's pretty bad, unfortunately. And I will just say that it's $13, you know, over $13 million, but almost 12,000 people, right? And that's really the- In the U.S. 12,000? I'm saying how many people of this

particular campaign that we just talked about got rid of, it helped 12,000 people. So, they helped get rid of $13 million of debt, but for 12,000 people. So it's a lot of people that are impacted by one of our many, many campaigns. The problem, yeah, and while $130,000 is a whole lot of money. I've talked to a lot of people who raise a whole lot more money than that and don't affect 12,000 people in a very real way. Yeah, the return on investment is hard to match. It's really insane. But the problem of medical debt is huge in the United States. I mean, it affects one in three people. One in three people.

So it's a lot. It's the number one cause of bankruptcy. And it's at least, and this is probably an undercat, a $220 billion problem. $220 billion. Correct. All right. How many people we got in the U.S.? Alex?

$340,000? Probably around that, yeah. Not right? It used to be $330, so it's probably higher now. All right. Well, let's say 350 million. Let's say 300 million. Right.

If you're saying one and three, that means 100 million people in our country. Yes, that's right. That's about the number. Have medical death they can't satisfy. Correct. Yes. So when I ask how big of a problem it is, it's as big as cancer. Yeah.

And it's not just that. Oddly. Yes, I know. And cancer puts you in medical debt and makes you much more susceptible to it. It really does bankrupt people. And I would say the problem is beyond the numbers, right? It's living in people's psyche. They're not going to get the care that they need.

They're avoiding going to the hospitals. They're ignoring problems with their bodies. And once they have a medical debt, they're, you know, not only dealing with the trying to get better and, you know, heal from whatever ailment that, that originally they needed to go get help with. But they're also sitting with this, like, sense of failure. They feel like they've failed themselves and their families because they got cancer or because, you know, they were in a car accident. And now they're putting their families and this financial ruin. a state. And that's the part that I think is the biggest problem and the most motivating for me and my team. Well, explain how the for profit marketplace for medical debt in the U.S. kind of works.

Yeah. So unfortunately, with medical debt in particular, there's a real misalignment between what people actually owe or what the expectation is that you pay out of pocket and what you actually have, which is different than I think other kinds of debt. It's also a weird marketplace in general, because how many times when you go to the doctor do you actually price out? Well, if I'm buying a call. I'm going to go to five different people and ask what the price is.

As a patient, we almost never ask or even know what the hell it is. We're paying for something. Like you tell me, anyone in this room know how much a colonoscopy is supposed to run you? Yeah. Right? Like, how would you even know what the basic cost of that is?

You know what a basic cost of a car would be and if you're getting, you know, taking advantage of. of you don't know that for health care, but there is a for profit market for medical debt and for other kinds of debt as well. But the thing is the people who owe those debts can't really pay for them, right? Because there's this mismatch, which I just described. And so being able to make money off of buying those debts is really hard. And so for for profit debt buyers, they have to buy those debts for pennies on the dollar to make the math work for them. And so we as a nonprofit take

advantage of that existing market. And instead of trying to collect on anybody, we just get rid of those debts for all those people using donated dollars. Let's say Methodist Hospital here in Memphis. It's a great hospital. They do good work. And profits are a necessary measure of any organization's success. So they have to pay their doctors and the nurses and their insurance and stuff. So I get it costs. Okay. But written into their profit law statement, is a reserve for bad debt because they know they are not going to collect all the dust because there are simply people that come in that can't afford it, they have inadequate or no insurance.

Right. All right. So they get at the end of this year this $10 million in unpaid bills. And they really don't think they're going to collect them because of what the world is, right? So this for-profit model, how much do these, I guess they're medical, debt collectors that buy the debt from the hospital? Yeah, and I will say not all hospitals sell their debts, so don't assume that all of them do that they don't.

Some of them just write it off to bad debt, and then it just sits on their books. Now, they will have tried to collect it at some point from those individuals, so those individuals still think that they owe those debts, even if the hospital isn't actively trying to collect on those debts. They may have already written it off and they're still trying to get it back on their balance sheet. In fact, a lot of the debts we buy have already been written off technically, but the patient doesn't have that information, right? So they're still avoiding going to get the care that they need.

And then they can give it to a collection agencies to either work the debt. So even if they don't sell it, the debt collector can try to work that debt and try to make some returns from that. And they can do that for as long as they'd like. Or the hospital, you know, writes it off at some point, just puts it down to zero. And again, the patient doesn't know. So that's how it often works. But if that hospital does sell their debt, they would sell it to a for profit debt buyer and they would sell it for pennies on the dollar because then that for profit debt buyer would go and call those people that are in that portfolio and try to cut them deals. So say you owed a thousand dollars, they might call you and say, hey, I'll, and they bought that thousand dollars for ten dollars.

That's that was my question. When you say pennies on the dollar, they buy it for ten bucks. So a hospital that maybe has ten million dollars in debt, they may pay. Yeah, take two zeros off the end. That's basically the math. You're kidding. No. All right. And their goal is if I can get anything over 1%. Right. Whatever I pay it.

But the thing is, listen, the majority of those people in that portfolio are not going to be able to pay anything. So that's the thing. They're taking a risk. So that, you know, that's really where we end up. Yeah, exactly. That's the business model. But if I'm a blue-collar working person and I've got, you know, I'm making $22 and hour driving a for Home Depot, and I have a $3,000 medical debt out there.

Right. That there's just no way. There's no way you're ever paying that, right. But somebody calls me up and says, if you'll give me $100, we'll call this good and it'll be taken off your deal. Yes. That could happen, yes. I'm not sure if they would take $100, like if they would cut a deal that deep, but, you know,

maybe they'll put you out a payment plan and say, pay me $100 a month for the next X number of years. Right? And then they'll be like, okay, I'll take care of that, you know, then I'll take that deal. And now a few messages from our generous sponsors. But first, there's Army members looking to start one of our ANF local service clubs in Oklahoma, San Antonio, Texas, Lincoln, Nebraska, Huntsville, Alabama, Bozeman, Montana, and Sumner County, Kansas. If you happen to live in one of those areas and would be interested in being a part of the potential club, shoot Alex an email at Alex at normalfolks.org.

And he'd love to connect with you and the person looking to start the club. And if you'd be interested in starting one of these clubs yourself, shoot Alex an email too. You can also learn more about them at normalfolks.org backslash service clubs. We'll be right back. I'm Ruby Carr, the host of the podcast, Encore. Check out our brand new episodes featuring music from the show that everyone is reheating as we speak. Heated rivalry. Join me as I go behind the songs that brought Shane and Elia together. I'll tell you the stories of Fice, My Moon, My Man, Wolf Parades, I'll Believe in Anything, and tattoos all the things she said, and how they all became a part of this global phenomenon. Stream Oncore on IHeart Radio, Crave, or wherever you get your podcasts. If your bookshelf and your for-you page are equally important to your personality, welcome home.

This is Prose Society, the weekly podcast that's part book club, part group chat for thought daughters, pop culture obsesives, and anyone who thinks pride and prejudice and love island deserve the same level of discourse. I'm Eli Rallo, and every week we're connecting the dots between books, the internet, and the conversations everyone can't stop having. I'm going to have to look up this story. I'm obsessed. I'm obsessed. From bestselling authors and your favorite book talk creators to the latest pop culture moments, nothing is off the table. It's like if you can hide some real messages inside compelling characters,

then that is the Trojan horse. Whether you're looking for literary deep dives, smart pop culture conversations, or a community of readers who love to think a little too much, you're in the right place. Listen to Pro Society on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. See you between the pages.

When I was 14 years old, I was kidnapped and held captive for nine months. I survived, and I've spent my life exploring how other people survive what should have destroyed them. I'm Elizabeth Smart, and these are the Survivor Files. I just remember this low, taunting voice next to my ear saying, shut up, don't say anything. Every week, I'm with survivors who live through the unthinker. I knew if he woke up, without a doubt, he was going to hurt me. I started feeling that there was someone at the end of my bed, and I just started screaming. They are abducted, stalked, controlled, and nearly silenced.

But these aren't stories about what's taken from them. There's stories about what it takes to make it out alive. Listen to the Survivor Files with Elizabeth Smart on the IHeart Radio app Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Hoda Kotbby, host of the podcast, Joy 101 with Hoda Kotbby. If you know me, you know, I'm always searching for inspiration and useful tools to maximize joy. So this podcast lets us uncover those things together through meaningful conversations with fascinating

people. Like when my friend Henry Winkler offered advice to aspiring actors and really anybody hoping to stand out. You're not hired just to fill time and space. You're hired to fill the space with you. You have something in your guts. You go with it. And Sean Johnson recalled the moment she realized her now husband, Andrew, was the one.

He was just so unapologetically himself and knew nothing of Hollywood. He hadn't been on a plane before without his family. It was so pure. Listen to Joy 101 with Hoda Kotby on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. But the deal is for these guys, these companies that buy the medical debt, if they're paying 1%, if they can get 10% of a debt, they're making money. Yeah, right.

But again, many of those debts in that portfolio, they will get zero on. Right. So they've got to wait it. Yeah, exactly. All right. So that's not what you do, obviously. But that's this business. Yes.

I didn't know what existed. Yeah. And I bet the vast majority, our listeners didn't even know there's this industry out there that buys bad medical debt and makes a profit ignoring the people that they can't get any money from, but then just getting more than they put into the debt from collections. Yes, there is a for-profit and market that does that, absolutely. And you're right, most people don't know that. And often people say, like, can I just buy my debt directly from a hospital in that way? And it doesn't actually work that

way you have to have, you're not just going to let you buy one debt at a time in that way from the hospital if you owe it. So, but we take advantage of that model and flip it on a tent. Exactly. That's what I said at the top. It's so creative. So you guys know that exists out there. Yep. And so you're like, if we can raise money and help folks get their debt cleared, now they feel okay going back to the doctor. Now they don't have this burden, waiting them down every day. They don't have debt collectors calling them at work and at home and texting them and emailing. They don't have it on their credit report.

They don't have it on their credit report. So now they can finance a car or maybe apartment or a house. Yeah. That's incredible. Yeah, that's what we do. Who came up with this idea? So we were founded by two former debt collectors who understood that this industry. Are you kidding?

No. So we had two former debt buyers, Jerry and Craig, knew that this existed. And they were like, okay, if we can. you know, get donated dollars, we can, we can buy these debts. And so they started out doing this. Only in 2014, we've only been around for a relatively short period of time as an organization. And then I was brought in to scale it. And that's what we've done. We've gotten rid of almost $50 billion of medical debt using this model for 31 million people. I can't wait to get to that. But what I found interesting is most of the medical debt,

your race is relatively small. It's, um, $200 to $2,000 is what I read. Yeah, that's the average. And that's, I think, the average medical debt that somebody has from a single occurrence. Yep. Well, so how does eliminating that little bit make that big a difference? So remember that, or maybe no, that half of Americans don't have $500 in savings. So if you apply that to this, to a $2,000 or a $200 bill, it does make a difference.

It takes a weight off the people's shoulders. They also feel like somebody's out there where they didn't have to do anything. There's no application for this. You just get a letter in the mail that tells you, we bought your debt. It's free and clear. You don't have to even ever tell us or call us or do anything to take advantage of this. And so I think it creates an opportunity for people to feel like they believe again in humanity. But actually, I think it's tangible for people as well.

We hear from, we call them constituents or individuals or patients that call us and let us know what it's been like to get rid of this debt, they talk about the fact that they feel comfortable going back to the doctor, that they can go now and get their child that dance lesson that they had canceled because they were trying to make ends meet, et cetera. I've read that there's like $220 billion in unpaid medical debt out there. How in goodness name do you guys figure out who you're going to help? because even as great as you're doing, there seems like there's more need

than you're able to satisfy. So how do you... Absolutely. And if nobody's a fine, how do you know, how do you find them? What do you do? If we have dollars and we have debt, we put those two things together, right?

And we qualify everyone that is 400% of poverty or below, which is roughly a little over 100,000... Say that again, 400... Of percent of poverty or below. what's the threshold. So if you qualify, which is usually like 90% of a hospital's files qualifies, if you're at 400% of poverty or below, you will automatically qualify. We actually created this debt engine. How do you get to 400% of poverty? How did we pick that number? Yeah, well, yes. So it's, that's basically it's an income threshold, right? So a lot of like, is it roughly,

if you're a family of three, it's, it's making a little over $100,000 a year. We used to be, our threshold was at 200% of poverty, but we raised it to 400 because inflation's been killing families. And this is really like an almost anti-poverty. Like this one medical bill could be the thing that brings you down. And we didn't want to leave people hanging, right? So we thought, let's raise it up to 400, especially when we're working with hospitals and we're getting access to the debt and this close. Also, those people are clearly not able to pay their bills, which is why they're still there and their debts are still in those files. That's interesting. Four hundred percent of poverty, level is higher than what I would have expected.

Yeah. But because in- For a family of three, I mean, yeah. I hear you, but in Memphis, the poverty level is, in Memphis, the poverty level is anyone making less than, I think it's $23,000. Yep. But it's, this is, that's old, but I remember hearing that about a year. So multiple of all that times four, that's 80 and, and 12, that's $92,000 a year.

In Memphis, if you're making- But that would be for one person. You were talking times three people when I say 100, $100,000. Yeah, this is in New York. But yeah. No, I know. Yeah, but I'm serious. Somebody, a family of three making $90,000 year in Memphis is they're able to live a life.

Not great, not killing it, but they're able to live a lot. But can they pay a $2,000 unexpected bill? Like, that's the thing. That's what I'm getting to. But if you think about it, a two or $3,000 unexpected bill, those are probably the families that are paying their bills and are getting by week to week but don't have the $500 in the same account and can't. I'm encouraged that it's that high as well I'm saying.

Yes. All right. So it's actually a bill. It's very common that even the Obamacare subsidies might be at that level. Like a lot of nonprofits and other things used for. Focus on that. Yes. Because there's actually at the lower levels, there's more government programs to support your insurance levels.

And at the higher levels, it gets decreasing. So it's almost like this point. There's a middle group that doesn't have government help and doesn't make enough. Okay. Well, also get rid of your debt. If you're above that threshold and the debt is 5% or more of your income. So if it's large relative to your income, we'll also get rid of it. We'll flag it.

And then we just send, we just the entire file, if we have the money, we buy the, we buy all of the debts that qualify. So it's not like a lottery exactly. I mean, it kind of feels like you won the lottery and didn't buy a ticket when you get a letter. but it's not really a lot or it's just an algorithm that we apply. Yeah, you said you had a formula that you guys invented. Yes, this is it. Well, so, okay, you got the formula, but how do you found the debtors? Yeah, so they're in the file.

So we go to the hospital. So we buy the debt directly from the hospital. This is all source-based. We go directly to the hospital or another health care kind of provider. It could be a large physician group or an ambulance group. It could be a debt collector that already bought it from a hospital. and we put it through our debt engine that we created. And then we get the file.

I thought you waited into one of these poor profit people bought it from the hospital and then you went and negotiated with them. We do both. You're usurping them, though. Correct. You're going to buy it from the hospital. Yes. And now you know how much the debt is.

Yes. And you're able to, oh, that's cool. Yes. And then we buy income data to pair it with that. And then we just let everybody know. we get updated address information and let them all know that they've done to leave. I got to chase the squirrel up the tree. How do you decide what hospitals to go to?

Yeah. So that has a lot to do with where there's two ways. A hospital can come to us. And if we have funds, we can, we apply them. The hospitals will come to you and say, hey. Yeah, because they know, look, for hospitals, this problem falls in their lap as well in some ways. And they, you know, they provide financial assistance. You talked before about, you know, there's a percentage of people they know that they're not going to provide care for.

They're not going to get paid for. I'm sorry. They're going to provide care for, but they're not going to get paid for. That's called uncompensated care. And they do actually apply financial assistance, which is free care to some of those folks, but people still fall through the cracks. Not all of those financial assistance policies go up as high as 400%. But they also know that if they don't provide free or discounted care to people,

those people, they have a medical bill. They're not going to come back and get the care they need, and they're going to oftentimes show up in their emergency room with a worse off condition, which is more expensive for them as well. Then that kills the bottom line for the hospital. Right. So there's both the mission-driven and a profit-driven reason, I think, for hospitals to do this. And they get a little something from us, obviously, in terms of this bad debt portfolio, you know, in exchange for it.

Plus, they get it off their books. Right. They get it off their books. But I think with the hospitals we talk to, do it because they know that it's patient-centered, and it's really they want people to come back to get the care they need. All right. So the first way is they find you. What's the second way you find hospital?

Yeah, so if we have a, we approach hospitals, we pitch them, we tell them who we are, you know, we say, hi, like we're this nonprofit that buys medical debt. And we do it based on, you know, interest if we have donors in a particular region that are motivated to raise money. We'll be looking at those hospitals to see. So it's really has to do with donors being interested in having the money. We'll be right back. You've heard the chaos. Now you can see it. Do we want to jump right in? Watch all your favorite podcast. from start to finish right inside the free IHard Radio app. Make some noise. Wooee! Catch every laugh and eye roll on shows like Bestie Listen, Hey Jonas, and Las Culturistas. Now with full video.

I'll just leave that there. It's the same hosts and the same chemistry with all the hilarious moments you've been missing right on your screen. Open the free IHard radio app. Search video podcasts and tap watch. If your bookshelf and your For You page are equally important to your personality, welcome home. This is Prose Society, the weekly podcast that's part book club, part group chat for thought daughters, pop culture obsessives, and anyone who thinks Pride and Prejudice and Love Island deserve the same level of discourse. I'm Eli Rallo and every week we're connecting the dots between books, the internet, and the conversations everyone can't stop having.

I'm going to have to look up this story. I'm obsessed. I'm obsessed. From bestselling authors and your favorite book talk creators to the latest pop culture moments, nothing is off the table. It's like if you can hide some real messages inside compelling characters, then that is a Trojan horse. Whether you're looking for literary deep dives, smart pop culture conversations, or a community of readers who love to think a little too much, you're in the right place. Listen to Pro Society on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. See you between the pages.

When I was 14 years old, I was kidnapped and held captive for nine months. months. I survived, and I've spent my life exploring how other people survive what should have destroyed them. I'm Elizabeth Smart, and these are the survivor files. I just remember this low, taunting voice next to my ear saying, shut up, don't say anything. Every week, I'm with survivors who live through the unthinkable. I knew if he woke up, without a doubt, he was going to hurt me. I started feeling that there was someone at the end of my bed, and I just started screaming. They are abducted, stalked, controlled, and nearly silenced. But these aren't stories about what's taken from them.

There's stories about what it takes to make it out alive. Listen to the Survivor Files with Elizabeth Smart on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Hoda Kotby, host of the podcast. Joy 101 with Hoda Cottonby. If you know me, you know, I'm always searching for inspiration and useful tools to maximize joy. So this podcast lets us uncover those things together through meaningful conversations with fascinating

people. Like when my friend Henry Winkler offered advice to aspiring actors and really anybody hoping to stand out. You're not hired just to fill time into space. You're hired to fill the space with you. You have something in your guts. You go with it. And Sean Johnson recalled the moment she realized her now husband, Andrew, was the one.

He was just so unapologetically himself and knew nothing of Hollywood. He hadn't been on a plane before without his family. It was so pure. Listen to Joy 101 with Hoda Kotby on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. So, Alex, if an army of normal folks, service club. Correct. Through their giving circle, correct. Where to weighs $100,000. Or so the minimum actually, I was exploring this on your website, is $10,000. How much? 10,000, which is very...

10,000, which that's it? Minimum. So, so yes, it is 10,000. Okay, let's just say 50, because 50 starts to make it a little worthwhile. Yes. All right. So if an Army and normal folks service club, just follow me here, right? If an Army and Normal Folks Service Club, through their grieving circle were to raise $50,000, some of which we have matched, if they've hit in certain par levels, they could choose to then call Allison and say, we want you to call this hospital in our city. We're going to give you $50,000 and you go remove all the possible debt you can from people in our community at this hospital. That could work.

Kind of. So I'll just say there are some caveats. Well, then take me through it. Okay. So you should call us and see whether or not we have access and we already have an existing relationship with that hospital or and or. And we don't always, the debts that we relieve can be a mixture of different debts from different hospitals.

So we won't necessarily say like, it's 100% from this hospital. Like, we'll tell you we have this much debt and it could be from a range of people. $50,000 is probably not enough money for us to open up a new relationship with a new hospital. How much is? It depends on the size of the hospital, but probably more, like, closer to like 500,000. I know. It's a lot. But it doesn't mean that we don't already have debt. We have a lot of existing relationships. We've worked with over 300 hospitals. And so we have existing relationships that might already be there. We'll be able to tell you. I believe we do have dead in Memphis. Yes. All right. There's a club. Do you have any in, in Wichita? Do you have any in Wichita? Do you have any in Wichita?

probably I know she's got one what about Atlanta yeah what about them up in New York I'm guessing they actually have Oxford too because I was on the site and somebody had created a campaign for if there's a campaign there we have that there we have Alibucia County yep which probably means they have Baptist Hospital what about the one in New York um I don't know whether so it's uh there's we have a club in Dutchess County New York oh yes Dutchess County yes uh-huh I know exactly where that is every one of our club potential could use their giving circle to come up with $50,000 provided you had access to the debt.

Then they could absolutely remove debt for people in their specific community. Correct. It's exactly right. That is awesome. Well, it's actually really, I mean, yes, on the Giving Circle, obviously other Army members could consider this, whether you're part of a service club or not people listening to us. I really like how Robin approached it with her church. That's a great way to do it. And they did, like, videos and talked about the problem, which I thought was really super cool, too. So, Bill, what they did is east, they did around Easter weekend. I remember reading that.

Yeah, like, how much can we raise, or they raise, like, all the, I think even just engaging a lot of your local churches. Hey, here's the size of the, I mean, you tell me if you think this makes sense out. Here's the size of the problem in our community that we can solve. Absolutely. That's exactly how it works. We've had over a thousand churches work with us. And collectively, they've gotten rid of $10 billion of medical debt.

10 billion. Yes, that's correct. Over our lent. Oh, we're the last. five years, I think. For how much money probably? What was raised to get 10 billion off of people's backs? Yes, let me. But that would be a hundred million on average. More importantly, a hundred thousand, which is a, that's a number of people can fathom. Yes. That you could raise. Yep. A hundred thousand could get rid of ten million dollars of debt. Yes, that's correct. Ten million. And if you think about these

debts are often $200, $2,000, $3 and $4,000 and $5,000, think how many people that affects in your community. And obviously, you don't have to be a member of a church either. I'm just using that as an example of a convening body, right? We can engage a lot of people at once, and there's other types of convening bodies. Yeah, right here in Tennessee, we actually had a group of students that were medical students with Vanderbilt, and they raised $10,000 to get rid of $1.1.1. It's almost $7 million of medical debt because they realized as medical students that people

were avoiding going to get the care that they needed in the first place. The number one predictor of whether or not you end up in medical debt is not your income level. It's not your insurance, whether or not you're insured. It's whether or not you get sick. What? Yeah. So we're all potentially going to be hurt by this. We're all potential victims.

Yeah, because everybody will get sick. Exactly. We're human beings, right? Yeah. So that to me, you know, is the story. I want to tell is that the system really is rigged against you actually here, like in a very real way. And like, people need to pay attention to the fact that they should not feel that personal failure. Although I understand it, it's not their fault.

And I want people to know that and believe that. And so when they find out about this letter and the work that we're doing, I feel like it really should matter to them that that someone that was stranger that didn't even know that didn't pick them, just wanted to do something kind for the world and through us was able to raise money, do what they can from where they sit and get rid of this person's medical debt. And they don't have this $5,000 bill that you mentioned anymore because of that and can feel like they can sleep better at night. For the person listening right now who just got a bill they can't pay, what do they actually have the power to do?

So I get asked this question a lot. And I, you know, unfortunately, there's no perfect answers. I would say, importantly, make sure you go and find out whether or not there is a financial assistance policy that you qualify for at the hospital or other health care provider. Mostly hospitals are required, especially nonprofit hospitals, which the vast majority are, are required to have some kind of financial assistance or charity care policy. So, and we also know from polling that people are not aware of that. There's also this sense sometimes that people, kind of to your point, don't feel like they

deserve it or that they're too proud. Or sometimes they're too proud, even if they do qualify. And like, don't be too proud. Like it is, again, the system is rigged against you. Just take the financial assistance. There's lots of people that take it for good reason. And it's there for a good reason. So I would say, number one, look at financial assistance.

You can ask for an itemized bill. Sometimes that's helpful. Make sure you don't go back and forth with your insurance company and find out why it wasn't covered or what the issue is. Most importantly, do not put it on a credit card because then it all of a sudden is not medical debt. And medical debt often has other protections in place. That's the one I wanted you to say loud and proud. Say that again. Do not. Medical debt on your credit card. Ever. Right. Do not put it on your credit card. And they're all too happy to take your credit card. Yes, they are all too happy to take your credit card. Exactly. Exactly. Do not do that. And don't avoid that. Because that brings some other credit turn to the mix. Well, and it's not medical debt. Now it's credit card debt, which has much higher percentage. Like there's, you know, just so. And they're not going to forgive it. Right. And be careful of what kind of payment plan you sign up for. You know, sometimes there's these like credit cards at hospitals and other health care providers, especially dentists are notorious for this, like high percentage. Somehow teeth aren't part of the body. So you have to

have a separate dental insurance. I don't know why that is. It's crazy. I'm sorry. It's crazy. The eyes are also. Yep, exactly. I don't know. So that ends up being people are really thinly insured on the dental side of things. And so there's a lot of high percentage dental credit cards. We're not currently buying much dental debt, but we're actually looking into that for this reason. So be careful of what kind of payment plans you sign up for. And most importantly, don't avoid the care that you need. Like I know that's, it's easier said than done because you're like, well, what happens when I end up in this debt? But you have to get. take care of yourself. You're not to be able to work. You're not going to, you know, you have to

take care of yourself. And that means go. Even if you do have medical death, yes, go. A hospital. They will take you. They can't not take care of. Yes, that's right. That's exactly. So don't let the debt keep you from getting well. Exactly. So would you say the number one mistake people make when they get a bill they can't afford us, they try to put it on a credit card to take care of it? And you know, I don't know what the number one mistake is. I can. guess that's probably common is that they put it on a credit card or sign up for a payment plan that they really can't afford and they end up going, you know, not paying it anyway. But also just just taking it as it is, I think, is you can call and negotiate and you should. That's, I think,

another piece of advice. Absolutely. And if you're not physically well enough, have a family member or somebody that you trust call and do that negotiation for you. You can negotiate these bills. And I don't think people feel empowered to do that. What do you want my listeners to hear about this, about what you do and about what they can do to engage? Well, so if you want to help your community and, you know, that's, we're a vessel, I feel like, for people wanting to help their community and doing what they can from where they sit. So, you know, go to our website on domedicaldette.org and try to start a campaign or contribute to one that already exists. But also talk about the issue within your communities. Talk about the fact, you know, share this podcast around so people can hear more about this.

issue, right? That's right. Right? See? Share it around. Talk about it. Thanks for the plug for you. Um, you know, and also like, engage in the issue. Like, let's talk, let's have a conversation as a country about what else we can do. You know, whether or not you have the solution doesn't mean that you shouldn't have a discussion about what's going on now is not right and not sustainable. And so I think we do need to have a push for change. You don't have to be on the left. You don't have to be on the right to know. And actually, this issue is very bipartisan in terms of knowing that we need change and we need to do something differently. A lot of the churches we work with say that a lot of the issues that they work with in their church are divisive. But this is one that like is everyone runs with and really brings people together.

So I think we do need to have a larger conversation about what we can do differently about how we finance health care and what it does for working people in particular and how this monkey is on their backs. Thanks for the incredible work that you do with undue medical debt. And we're going to keep an eye on you. And I hope that an army of normal folks is more than just a podcast for you, that some of our people get involved with you because I think this is a very actionable thing. So maybe it's the beginning of a fruitful relationship. Yeah.

And thank you, Robin, for bringing us to your attention. Yeah. Right? Great. You're awesome. Do you know, Robin? No, no. No.

I mean, my team told me about her, yeah. But I do know about their campaign, and it's great. Yeah, thanks, Robin, for emailing us about your church. She also gets free merch, and she got a guest on the podcast. Yeah, and Alex is going to send you some free merch, so send us an email and tell us your sizes, and Alex, he'll get you some stuff. Cool. All right, Allison, thank you so much. Thank you so much. And thank you for joining us this week. If Allison Sesso has inspired you in general or better yet to take action by sharing this episode to raise awareness about the problem of medical debt and her nonprofit's awesome solution donating to undo medical debt or starting a campaign with them to erase medical debt in your community, let me know.

I'd love to hear about it. You can write me anytime at bill at normalfolks.org. and I promise I will respond. If you enjoyed this episode, share it with friends and on social, subscribe to the podcast, wherever you're watching or listening to it. Rate it, review it. Join the army at normalfokes.us. Join or start one of our local service clubs.

Take the 10-level challenge and buy our merch. All of these things that will help us grow. An Army of Normal Folks. I'm Bill Courtney. Until next time, do what you can. If your bookshelf and your for you page are equally important to your personality, welcome home. Pro Society is a weekly podcast that's part book club, part group chat for anyone who thinks pride and prejudice and love island deserve the same level of discourse. Each week, we're connecting the dots between books, the internet, and pop culture with your favorite writers, book talk creators, and plenty of overthought opinions.

Yeah, I'm obsessed. I'm obsessed. Listen to Pro Society on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you. you get your podcasts. I survived nine months in captivity, and I've spent my life exploring how other people survive what should have destroyed them. I'm Elizabeth Smart, and these are the Survivor Files. Every week, I'm with survivors who live through the unthinkable, abducted, stalked, controlled, and nearly silenced.

These are stories about what it takes to make it out alive. Listen to the Survivor Files with Elizabeth Smart on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Hoda Kotbby, host of the podcast, Joy 101 with Hoda Kotb. You know, I'm always searching for inspiration and useful tools to maximize joy. Like when my friend Henry Winkler offered advice to aspiring actors and really anybody hoping to stand out. You're not hired just to fill time and space. You're hired to fill the space with you.

Listen to Joy 101 with Hoda Kotby on the I Heart Radio Act. Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, this is Hayes Davenport. And Sean Clements. We host the podcast, Hollywood Handbook. Every episode we're trying to help our guests improve their careers by mainly focusing on how they can help us improve our careers. The show's famously super accessible so you can easily jump into any of our 650 episodes

and understand what's going on. We recommend some of our recent episodes with Ben Stiller, Danny McBride, Riz Ahmed, and Mary Steenberg. Listen to Hollywood Handbook on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.