An Army of Normal Folks - His Tool Helped 13,000 Families Out of Crisis. This is How | Restore Hope

Episode Date: August 25, 2026

Paul Chapman spent years doing charitable work until he finally got frustrated by this: the people trying to help were often doing great work — but they were doing it in silos and too many families still weren’t flourishing.  So he built "HopeHub” to connect nonprofits, churches, law enforcement, child welfare, treatment providers, and others around the very same family, so that they could stop making families try to find help in 10 different places and start working together to empower them. What started as an effort to help 100 families has now reached more than 13,000 and in Sebastian County, Arkansas family reunification rates have gone from a statewide average of 43% to 70% for Hope Hub clients!  This innovative leader will teach you how changing the world can start with only 100 families — and why breaking down silos just might be one of the most powerful ways to change lives. ARMY ACTIONS Subscribe to the podcast and rate & review us! Signup to join the Army, visit NormalFolks.org Follow us on social media @ArmyofNormalFolks Join or start an ANF local service club at https://normalfolks.org/service-clubs/ Take The 10 Level Challenge, "the hero's journey for service" at 10LevelChallenge.orgSupport the show: https://www.normalfolks.us/#joinSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

I'm not giving you any money. You're solving the wrong problem. I'd go lock all those smart people that built this in a room don't let them out until they come up with a solution for $10,000. The tool that you have provided has now held 51.004. On average, there are 10 people on one of our case. One human being has to feel like they literally do have a, quote, village around them. There's a community everywhere.

Why don't you just start loving the community you're in? Your engagement really needs to follow what you're good at. This is Army of Normal Folks, where our mission is to make service easier for us all, and together change the country. I'm Ruby Carr, the host of the podcast, Encore. Check out our brand new episodes featuring music from the show that everyone is reheating as we speak. Heated rivalry. Join me as I go behind the songs that brought Shane and Elia together.

I'll tell you the stories of Fice, My Moon, My Man, Wolf Parades, I'll Believe in Anything, and tattoos, all the things she's saying. and how they all became a part of this global phenomenon. Stream encore on IHeart Radio, crave, or wherever you get your podcasts. When I was 14 years old, I was kidnapped and held captive for nine months. I survived, and I've spent my life exploring how other people survive what should have destroyed them. I'm Elizabeth Smart, and these are the Survivor Files.

I just remember this low, taunting voice next to my ears. saying shut up. Don't say anything. Every week, I'm with survivors who live through the unthinkable. I knew if he woke up. Without a doubt, he was going to hurt me. I started feeling that there was someone at the end of my bed, and I just started screaming. They are abducted, stalked, controlled, and nearly silenced. But these aren't stories about what's taken from them. There's stories about what it takes to make it out a lot. Live, listen to The Survivor Files with Elizabeth Smart on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

If your bookshelf and your For You page are equally important to your personality, welcome home. This is Prose Society, the weekly podcast that's part book club, part group chat for thought daughters, pop culture obsesives, and anyone who thinks Pride and Prejudice and Love Island deserve the same level of discourse. I'm Eli Rallo and every week we're connecting the dots between books, the internet, and the conversations everyone can't stop having. I'm going to have to look up this story. I'm obsessed. From bestselling authors and your favorite book talk creators to the latest pop culture moments, nothing is off the table. It's like if you can hide some real messages inside compelling characters, then that is a Trojan horse. Whether you're looking for literary deep dives, smart pop culture conversations, or a community.

of readers who love to think a little too much, you're in the right place. Listen to Pro Society on the Iheart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. See you between the pages. On the new podcast Solita, we share the messy reality of traveling alone as a woman. I can wait four hours for the next bus or this random dude is offering me a ride on his motorcycle. I chose option B. I'm Julie Pinero, and I travel by myself because it's a rare space where I can say, yes without asking anyone else first.

I'm on a mission to reclaim the word solita, trading the pity for possibility. Every time I tried to be alone, I kept meeting people, and they were like, you smiled at us. Not a lot of people smile around here. It's when you're alone that you're most receptive to the world as it is and not the lies you're sold about it. It can be a time where you push your limits, change your mind, or wake up to a new version of yourself. So whether you're a solo travel veteran or you're too nervous to book your first trip,

I hope you listen to Solita on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Paul Chapman, the director of Restore Hope and Fort Smith, Arkansas, just drove three hours to hang out with me. What's up, dude? Hey, Bill, thanks for the invite. Incarceration is down 20% in Sebastian County. That's Arkansas. And kids in foster care reunifying with their families is now 72% when the state average is 43% because of a tool you built. So what did you build?

Yeah, it's called it. We call it the restore hope model now. And there's some art and some science to it. And so there is this technology called Hope Hub. Called Hope Hub. Hope Hub. Yep, hope hub.io is the website. It's a collaborative case management system that is Hephaferpa-Copa compliant,

which just means that you can talk about someone's personal life and situations if they give you permission across sectors. So the child welfare person could be talking to the substance abuse provider, could be talking to the church that provides the class that the mom needs to take in order to be able to get trial home placements and all these. folks that are just trying to help mom get reunified with her children are all being able to collaborate, coordinate the same way. And then that system also takes all that interaction and builds you a set of real-time so what numbers, outcome numbers, rather than just the, I delivered

my unit of counseling, or I gave them a food box, or here's how much food we gave, which are all important things. But the real question then is, so what? You know, did, did mom get her kids back? Is mom working? Well, what's her state? What's her mental state look like? Now, if mom slept in her car last night with her kids, and that's how she caught her child welfare case, right? You could give her to a mental health specialist. And if that mental health counselor is not connected to people who can address things like not sleeping in your car or not using substances, then the best that that counselor could probably do is just give you tools to deal with the trouble that you're in. Rather than remove, those types of things, like now you're in an apartment, and you're not stressed out because you and your baby's sleeping in the car. So it's not an app. It's a, isn't it an app? I don't know. It's mobile accessible, but it is a web-based platform that allows people in the community, professionals in the community, to be able to put on one person's case and to coordinate their actions. You know what I think about when I heard this, when I read this about, you and it's probably a horrible metaphor but I can't help it is prior to 911 the FBI had their database the CIA had their database the military had their

database the local police department had their database a state police at their database we had all of these I think I think I think the number literally is when you add in the Port Authority there are 14 well-trained well-funded law enforcement agencies all designed to stop an issue from happening that was 9-11, but none of them ever talked to each other. It wasn't an information problem in that case, was it? Oh, and shortly after all that changed. And so now all of this information is cross-referenced, including the military at Fort Meade.

One person's information cross-references with another person's information. and we fold the attack. Why do I think that's metaphorically interesting to your story is you are creating a web-based platform. We do these stories all the time, and I want you to talk to this, but there's often someone really doing good foster care work, but they're not taking care of substance of use and this and that and the other. So even if they get the good foster care work, if the other issues aren't all connected

into a holistic approach to helping someone, then, yeah, you're fixing one thing, but because they're not communicating, it's not a holistic approach, right? And so that's what you do, right? You connect all of the issues into one platform where everybody serving a person or a family can see all of the issues so they can be worked on together. Am I missing? No, no, you're exactly right. One of the kind of pictures that I used to think of because I did a lot of kind of frontline work and then some funding of frontline partners back in the day before we developed this app.

And we were constantly frustrated with we were doing all this work to help men and women get out of prison and get back with their families. But then they would have a driver's license issue. And the court was, it was a misdemeanor court. They've got a warrant out for their arrest. It's four years old when their life was chaos before they weren't. incarcerated and other coming back out, but that issue didn't go away is still there. But I don't have anyone on staff as well funded as we were in some of our programs to drive two hours away to court to sit there all day, to meet with the judge to address the particular issue and then

drive that person all the way back. So we just ignored it. And so the picture, it's not, quote, what you do. And it's not what we do. But I didn't know anyone that did driver's license. Yet in Arkansas in many other places, but in Arkansas, it's a really big deal for someone whose life has been chaos and crisis, and they're trying to get out of it, driver's license are a really big deal. Often, we will find someone in a district court misdemeanor crime on their way to felony conviction and incarceration. And so they've got all these misdemeanor problems that are out there with warrants for their arrest. And so they've broken the law, but it's a misdemeanor crime, then we've got felony, and then we've got

incarceration, average. Is the felony a result of the misdemeanor? No, it's a result. Another felonies. It's another thing. But when they serve their time on the felony and come back out. They cleaned up the misdemeanor. All the misdemeanor. And so now they're

going to get a job. You can be sober. You can you're seeing your kids. You know, you're doing everything right. And then you get pulled over for a traffic violation. And then they'll send you. over. They'll put you in jail. Then someone from two hours away will come and get you in a couple of days when they can. And then you'll go. Now you've lost your job and then you're not going to pay your rent. And exactly. And so these issues, if we're going to help someone get clean and get on to live in life, then we're going to have to help them address all those things and not just leave them along. That word picture I was thinking of in your,

talk of you could be really good at foster care, but not some of these other things, is it's a rocket that doesn't have enough fuel. It's really impressive at liftoff. And I'm not saying that you don't help people. I'm just saying that there's not enough fuel in that rocket to actually gain orbit. And so it comes crashing back down. We saw that over and over again. It was one of the reasons why we ended up kind of putting down our direct service work,

and ended up figuring out how do we help other direct service providers. all do what they do together. Were you surprised to find that there was somebody doing work in every need capacity out there? You just had to connect them all. Just got to go find them. Yeah. But they're there. Yes, in every community of any size.

We work right now in a community with 3,000, it's a county in Arkansas, 3,000 humans, 12,000 deers, what the gammon fish think they're there. And they have resources in a 3,000 person. county in Arkansas. And there's a lot of driving to the larger town where you do business, but everyone does that anyway. But there are services in a county with 3,000 people in it. And now a few messages from our generous sponsors.

But first, there's Army members looking to start one of our ANF local service clubs in Oklahoma, San Antonio, Texas, Lincoln, Nebraska, Huntsville, Alabama, both. Osman, Montana, and Sumner County, Kansas. If you happen to live in one of those areas and would be interested in being a part of the potential club, shoot Alex an email at Alex at normalfolks.org. And he'd love to connect with you and the person looking to start the club. And if you'd be interested in starting one of these clubs yourself, shoot Alex an email too. You can also learn more about them at normalfolks.org,

backslash service clubs. We'll be right back. I'm Ruby Carr, the host of the podcast, OnCore. Check out our brand new episodes featuring music from the show that everyone is reheating as we speak. Heated rivalry. Join me as I go behind the songs

that brought Shane and Elia together. I'll tell you the stories of Fice, My Moon, My Man, wolf parades, I'll believe in anything, and tattoos all the things she said, and how they all became a part of this global phenomenon. Stream Encore on IHeart Radio,

Crave or wherever you get your podcasts. When I was 14 years old, I was kidnapped and held captive for nine months. I survived, and I've spent my life exploring how other people survive what should have destroyed them. I'm Elizabeth Smart, and these are the Survivor Files. I just remember this low, taunting voice next to my ear saying, shut up, don't say anything. Every week, I'm with survivors who lived through the unthinkable. I knew if he woke up.

Without a doubt, he was going to hurt me. I started feeling that there was someone at the end of my bed, and I just started screaming. They are abducted, stalked, controlled, and nearly silenced. But these aren't stories about what's taken from them. There's stories about what it takes to make it out alive. Listen to The Survivor Files with Elizabeth Smart on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. If your bookshelf and your For You page are equally important to your personality, welcome home. This is Prose Society, the weekly podcast that's part book club, part group chat for thought daughters, pop culture obsessives,

and anyone who thinks Pride and Prejudice and Love Island deserve the same level of discourse. I'm Eli Rallo and every week we're connecting the dots between books, the internet, and the conversations everyone can't stop having. I'm going to have to look up this story. I'm obsessed. I'm obsessed. From bestselling authors and your favorite book talk creators to the latest pop culture moments, nothing is off the table. It's like if you can hide some real messages inside compelling characters, then that is a Trojan horse. Whether you're looking for literary deep dives, smart pop culture conversations, or a community. of readers who love to think a little too much, you're in the right place.

Listen to Pro Society on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. See you between the pages. On the new podcast, Solita, we share the messy reality of traveling alone as a woman. I can wait four hours for the next bus or this random dude is offering me a ride on his motorcycle. I chose option B. I'm Julie Pinero, and I travel by myself because it's a rare space where I can see. yes without asking anyone else first. I'm on a mission to reclaim the word solita, trading the pity for possibility.

Every time I tried to be alone, I kept meeting people and they were like, you smiled at us. Not a lot of people smile around here. It's when you're alone that you're most receptive to the world as it is and not the lies you're sold about it. It can be a time where you push your limits, change your mind, or wake up to a new version of yourself. So whether you're a solo travel veteran or you're too nervous to book your first trip, I hope you listen to Solita on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

All right. So most nonprofits are competing for a lot of the same grant dollars. They're also serving a lot of the same families, but they don't partner, which clearly hasn't been working. I mean, there's a lot of nonprofits do great work and what they do is working. But if you think about the success of the human being, if all of the other things aren't working, it's not all working. But HOPUB enables them to actually work together. So not only is it a platform that everybody's aware of the issues, it allows the, I'm going to call them providers, I guess, to work together.

So what kind of community has it created that community of, I guess, providers has it created that the vast majority of us are missing? Yeah. And so. Even asked right. Yeah. No, I know exactly what you're talking about. Let me give you the example of the first place we went was Fort Smith.

We went Fort Smith 10 years ago because. National show. Tell everybody to what Fort Smith is. Yeah, Fort Smith. What's Fort Smith look like? Yeah. Forty Smith, big manufacturing town, you know, back in the day, it was the true grit area. It's right on the Arkansas River.

You look over the river and then into Oklahoma, which used to be the territories. And so the hanging judge and the marshals, there's a big march. Did you know the Oklahoma was a 46 state admitted to the union? 46. No, I didn't know that. I didn't either until about 20 months ago. If we showed up, we were recording a shop talk and that came up. Anyway, sorry.

I just thought that was not lying. Chasing a squirrel up a tree. Yeah, Fort Smith, River looking over. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, had this kind of frontier mindset back in the day. Heavy manufacturing, so a lot of manufacturers that are there. But kind of as the wall fell and globalization started taking place in the 90s and into the 2000s, a lot of those jobs were moving south and east.

And so you had less jobs for people where you could make it. A family could make it on one or one and a half incomes, now two incomes weren't, it wasn't cutting up. And so in Arkansas, it was probably our largest community that was impacted by globalization. This doesn't count the Delta, which is a different agricultural problem. But we had high drug use. There are on average in every community across the nation, there are five kids per thousand. That's the national average in foster care.

there were 28 kids per 1,000 in foster care. The fourth time. Free reduced launch was way way up there. Drug use was way up there. Incarceration and felony convictions way up there. And so what you had was you had about a 15-year period of time in which people felt hopeless. And it started to truly impact every institution in that community.

And so we went there first just out of sheer need. and we were talking with law enforcement and county officials and the mayors and providers and law enforcement, the parole probation and child welfare. We said we've got a partner, and they all had some reason to want to partner because the morale was pretty low because it kept getting worse. And so no matter what program they were running in their silo, it still didn't impact the real problem that they were. I've problem kept going up.

So we had this one moment. Let me ask a question. You said in their silo. Yeah. So there were probably lots of people working on 10 different issues, but in individual 10 different individual silos. You bet. Okay.

So the best people I've ever met. Right. And they're just trying to hold it together. Right. Help people. But they are operating in their blinded silo. Can't do it all. That's, quote, what they do.

You bet. And then there's nine other people doing other stuff that's important, but that's what they do. Yeah. Okay. So. And so we finally had this one meeting in the University of Arkansas, Fort Smith, boardroom, which we had these leaders.

And we all just kind of acknowledge their best wasn't good enough individually. And so we were going to, and we had just acquired software system, this base code that is now HOPU. And we said, this is what I'm asking everyone to do is, can we work together in this? new way, and we'll communicate in this software, but could we work together in this new way, solving problems for the individuals that we're all touching until we could help 100 families move from crisis to career. And then we could call it quits. It's not a for everything. We're not getting married. We're just going to get it done for 100 families. Let's see if it works. And let's

see if it works. And by the time we had 22 families onboarded two months later, I'm sitting next to the brand new chief of police and Karen that works with us. She was the first coordinator bringing everyone together. She starts pulling this data and sticking it in the PowerPoint. We're all in this big room. And she's clicking through that here's where people started in housing and in substance abuse and in food and in jobs and income. And here's where they are now just two months later.

And the police chief, I knew that we had it because he goes, it's working. And that kind of momentum for the leaders of these key institutions is so important because they believe now their effort, just like our clients, right? Why try if there's no hope? Why try? We say hope is fuel for action. It's true for leaders and communities, too. That's really a good point. Community leaders, when they try, try and try and try and try and it doesn't ever seem to get any better, do get fatigued.

And they lose hope as well. The hopelessness came in both sides of that equation. Are you as a football coach, Bill? Yeah. I mean, it can. Yeah, for sure. I mean, that's the first place that we see real hope restored is actually in the leaders. Isn't that interesting?

Because they feel like all the efforts are not in pain now. That's right. Because they've, I mean, if they've risen to kind of that leadership position, they've been in their work for a while. and so they've been a part of implementing different things and some of those things, I'm not saying that they're for not. They've done things, but they don't solve the real problem of if you're in law enforcement, why am I arresting Bill at Kent?

Because I knew Bill's bad, and he's not a bad guy. He just, unfortunately, can't get off the methamphetamine. You know, and I wish you'd get a job and, you know, all these things, but... Maybe he had a job and maybe you've had this, maybe had that. But the cop's not going to take you down to the plan, get you a job. I mean, it's not a jobs program. It's a safety program and a justice program. So we're connecting them.

That's right. And so I'll tell you what I see from law enforcement in there is when the leaders of law enforcement, they'll start to tell their officers, they'll say, hey, listen, you know, if someone is just kind of on the fence, They're not bad folks, but they're just poor and they're trying to make it. Right. Let's see if we can't connect them with some of these resources over here. Or why don't we be part of solving the problem in this new way because we don't have to hold it all, because we can connect them to all these other folks.

And they've come up with really interesting ways of doing that. Well, how, all right, so I'm thinking of your tool. Do the police have this tool? And so when they pull somebody over or get to somebody, and they can put their name in the tool to see if, okay, well, this is the person who we need to connect with all these resources rather than connect them with handcuffs and a jail cell. Do they actually do that? What the police and many other kind of first responders like is they'll have a name of a person in their community they know. And they'll go, hey, I need to connect you with Jeff.

And so you just stole from the store and I came out here for a shoplifting deal. it's clear that you're broke and you got diapers and some food and so you can't do that that's wrong but I'm gonna write you I'm gonna connect you with Jeff and then I'm a check on you and see if you know you're so Jeff will do the full assessment

I'm gonna find out of everything about you so I was telling you there's art and science to kind of this model our software is super slick our dashboards are outstanding all those are tools to enable the people in community though. And so that's the arc part and the X factor too because the science works, but it's only an enablement for the people in the community to solve their own problems for

their citizens. And so the way that we kind of set this up is there's an alliance that's formed. That alliance meets at least monthly and they're reviewing their own data in their own community. What's housing doing out? What are we going to do? There aren't any houses that can take someone in an affordable way. Does someone know Oh, Bill, he owns a bunch of apartments, but he won't take referrals in or he won't take the voucher or whatever. But you got a good relationship with Bill. Will you set up a meeting with Bill and maybe we'll ask him?

Just give me three chances. And I'll give you three, I guarantee you, I'll give you three good people, tenants. And so this tool connects all those people. And then you can be able to connect. And so if you've got the hook up with landlord Bill, right, I'm putting you in the tool. And I'm going, hey, Alex, Jeff is really, he's down. He's got to move. But he needs an apartment.

You think you can get him in at Bill's place? And then you would call Bill and then come back and he said, yeah, he's got someone that's vacating. It'll be ready first of the month. I'm like, okay, so I got to figure out what to do with you to first of the month, but I know where he's going now. That's really interesting that it connects all those dots. It's relationship.

So it's so much about relationships. So if you have been granted by we the people, if you've been granted authority, that means you have discretion in many of your decisions. If you're a judge, Bill, you still owe me a bunch of money, you hadn't paid any money. I mean, it's two years now. I mean, do I put you in jail to get your attention this weekend or next week or for 30 days? Or because you keep on doing these things. Or, you know, do I send you to Alex?

and then work and I'm going to be in constant communication on your performance, and I'll take that into account. And so that's a discretion that often judges have, but they need to trust what they're doing, because the last thing we want to do is you go out and hurt somebody or hurt yourself. And so all of these, it enables relationships. And because in this environment, often it's pretty low trust, you get to see automatically who did what to whom and what happened. And so it's a, I know you, and there's a scoreboard. That's neat. And so if I keep sending over and bills keep disappearing, I'm not sending to Alex any longer. I mean, you're just out.

All right. So you framed it with this 100 family initiative. Yeah. Right. I kind of love that because you don't need to go change the whole world. If each of your community is just started by helping 100 families go from crisis to careers, think about how different America would look. And I would expect that there's some type of contagion or trickle down from that as well.

There is. Because once the community sees success with the first hundred, and once the community's needing help see success with first hundred, well, now I'm incentivized to continue to do the work because it's helping my community and the people need help are incentivized because they say it actually works. That's right. That's true. In fact, on the dashboards, you can see, typically when we go into a new community, we help whoever that backbone organization is going to be. It pulls the lines together and on board it's the first clients. This is the hardest part is to get it jump started. And so we'll help them get referrals from a particular location off and it's child welfare. Is when you catch a case or you remove kids, make sure that somehow you're going to invite them to your team decision-making meeting or make a referral. somehow you're going to introduce them to this initiative.

In Tennessee, it's called the Human Fulishing Initiative. And then we're going to work on that direct pipeline. So many of the clients come there in year two when it catches in a community walk-ins. Are they? The words out on the street. Walk-ins. Yeah. It's just a community referral or a friend.

Hey. I hear you can maybe help. You heard. Can you help me? You help my friend, Jeff, Bill. I'm here because Jeff was off the chain and he's got a job now. I've never seen him look so good, whatever you did to him. I'm here for that.

You were told Restore Hope's model would never work. I get that, actually, because it's new, fresh, and people are often resistant to new fresh change. Incidentally, I can't help but think about how, You know, the whole abolished police thing was just stupid. Obviously, we're not going to abolish. But I do get, let's be creative and rethink or reimagine how police work. And some of what you're saying is that's actually a little bit of this,

is police reimagining how they do their jobs with certain people as a result of having this tool. If we want those. I thought it's really interesting. Yeah, if we want the authorities, so your child welfare workers, your probation officers, your judges, your law enforcement. enforcement. If we want them to exercise discretion, we must give them options. Yeah. They can't, I get that. They're not going, they have to err on the side of caution because the last thing they're right. But if, if they have confidence in these other options, they'll utilize. The trust environment, we've got a scoreboard that makes it high trust. All right. So, um, you were told it would never work, but now governors are replicating your model. So what changed? Yeah.

Arkansas, 10, 12 years ago, we were in trouble. We had the fastest growing prison population in the nation in our fault. In Arkansas? In Arkansas. Yeah, we grew about 21, 22 percent over about a four-year period of time. A man had gotten out of prison in 2012 again and killed an 18-year-old young boy. And it was one of those catalytic events where the legislator and the public are demanding. They were nuts.

And so we reformed parole and probation, but mostly parole. But we incarcerated a lot of people. And it was usually on technical violations. You're not meeting the demands of parole. Bill, cells, lock them up. Yep. And so we're leasing space from our neighbors, Louisiana and maybe some from Texas too. We just had a lot of people incarcerated.

But the number of kids in foster care group is the same growth curve. Good. Gavin or A-5-GEN. So it was the increase in prison population was 20-something percent, which is a 20 percent? 20. So for about four years. And the amount of kids going and foster care was increasing by the same rate. It was about the same amount. Yeah. Well, I mean, I don't have any data or analytics on that, but you would have to be an idiot not to think that the two that were on a string together. So the directors for incarceration and foster care. They're bought in. We've got to get the community engaged in helping these people solve the problems that they have because we do not possess the ability to get someone a job and to help them get back with their kids and their loved ones.

And that's community work. And so how is it that agencies organize themselves to partner with the community? These are low trust, high risk environments. And so you got to get it right. And so this tool was built, you know, with the input of these leaders of organizations with the partnership of the governor's office at the time. And then by many, many community-based organizations, many of whom had licenses, they're counselors of some type, they're professionals. And to keep that license, you have a lot of oversight. And they're like, we can do it this way, we can't do it that way.

All that went into the design of the tool. But I think I read you had a high net worth potential donor sit and listen to you. And at the end of it, when he heard, he asked a question, like, how many people are you going to help? And you said, we're starting with 100 families. And he was like, no, I'm not in. Yeah, that actually led to. That close. Yeah.

So we had built this reentry program over a number of years where it was the only place in Arkansas where inmates were being brought out of prison and were taken to a historically black college downtown Little Rock, Arkansas Baptist College. And I'm still friends and partners with Dr. Fitzhill over there. Who's a coach, by the way, said, just bring those folks here. I'll get them college, and then we put some things around it. And then ended up over years of them going to college and many not being able to complete building a 240-hour pre-release program that we called the Exodus Project that could lead many into a, we acquired a very large transitional house that had some additional services around

it that really helped a lot of people kind of get stabilized, get out, and get a job and get back in it. And so we were asking a benevolent guy who is a dynamite businessman. We said, you know, we showed him around and he said, this is dynamite. We're like, yeah, we know. We were reducing recidivism by 10% for six months. Department of Corrections asking us to replicate this anywhere. and they'll help. So, you know, participants won't be a problem. And he said, well, how many people can go through? We said, 200 people can go through a year.

We're trying to make it 400 people a year. He said, but how many people get at Arkansas prison in a year? At the time, it was 10,000. He was 10,000 people. And he goes, I'm not giving you any money. You're solving the wrong problem. He goes, with y'all's influence and relationships, he goes, I'd go lock all those smart people

that built this in a room, not let them out until they come up with a solution for 10,000. We'll be right back. You've heard the chaos. Now you can see it. Do we want to jump right in? Watch all your favorite podcasts from start to finish right inside the free IHard Radio app. Make some noise.

Wooee! Catch every laugh and eye roll on shows like Bestie Listen. Hey Jonas and Las Cultureistas. Now with full video. I'll just leave that there. It's the same hosts and the same chemistry with all the hilarious moments you've been missing right on your screen. Open the free IRRA Radio app.

Search video podcasts and tap watch. When I was 14 years old, I was kidnapped and held captive for nine months. I survived, and I've spent my life exploring how other people survive what should have destroyed them. I'm Elizabeth Smart, and these are the Survivor Files. I just remember this low, taunting voice next to my ear saying, shut up, don't say anything. Every week, I'm with survivors who lived through the unthinkable. I knew if he woke up, without a doubt, he was going to hurt me. I started feeling that there was someone at the end of my bed, and I just started screaming.

They are abducted, stalked, controlled, and nearly silenced. But these aren't stories about what's taken from them. There's stories about what it takes to make it out alive. Listen to the Survivor Files with Elizabeth Smart on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. If your bookshelf and your For You page are equally important to your personality, welcome home. This is Prose Society, the weekly podcast that's part book club, part group chat for thought daughters, pop culture obsessives, and anyone who thinks Pride and Prejudice and Love Island deserve the same level of discourse. I'm Eli Rallo, and every week we're connecting the dots.

between books, the internet, and the conversations everyone can't stop having. I'm going to have to look up this story. I'm obsessed. I'm obsessed. From best-selling authors and your favorite book talk creators to the latest pop culture moments, nothing is off the table. It's like if you can hide some real messages inside compelling characters, then that is a Trojan horse. Whether you're looking for literary deep dives, smart pop culture conversations,

or a community of readers who love to think a little too much, you're in the right place. Listen to Pro Society on the Iheart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. See you between the pages. On the new podcast, Solita, we share the messy reality of traveling alone as a woman. I can wait four hours for the next bus

or this random dude is offering me a ride on his motorcycle. I chose option B. I'm Julie Pinero, and I travel by myself because it's a rare space where I can say yes without asking anyone else first. I'm on a mission to reclaim the word solita, trading the pity for possibility. Every time I tried to be alone, I kept meeting people,

and they were like, you smiled at us. Not a lot of people smile around here. It's when you're alone that you're most receptive to the world as it is and not the lies you're sold about it. It can be a time where you push your limits, change your mind, or wake up to a new version of yourself. So whether you're a solo travel veteran or you're too nervous to book your first trip, I hope you listen to Solita on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

So 10 years ago, you're told it wouldn't work. Now you've proven it's work starting Fort Smith. And now you're expanding to Tennessee, Michigan, and Iowa. For someone listening right now that doesn't have hope of in their communities yet, would love to have it. What do they do? And how's Tennessee Iowa and Michigan doing? Yeah. So we've, Michigan was a, a partnership of ours that God has his hand on. It was a medical doctor who's an immigrant, first-gen immigrant from Cameron. She set up shop in Lansing, Michigan was running a clinic in a depressed part of town. And she was like, I just, you know,

I came here. I wanted to help people, but I'm not able to do what I need to. and I'm kind of stuck in this medical area, and I'm trying to give them food and other things, and she heard about us. And so Doc started this by quitting her job, going to her assemblies of God church, seeking over months to become a missionary, and then raise funds. It's amazing what she did in about a year and a half. She's strong. Yeah, very.

She's incredibly impressive. So this is when we're still scaling across Arkansas. We just became friends with Eleanor. And she just kept doing things that I didn't think that she'd ever be able to do. And so our rule is to agree, whatever Eleanor asked for, we're going to try to make sure we do it. At least we make God mad at us. It's so clear that she said. That's right.

Yeah. So that's Michigan. Oh, that's mission. In Iowa and Tennessee and in some other states that we're currently in talks with, what we do is we contract with the state. We will find funding. With the actual state? With the actual state.

And that division depends. It could be human services. It could be child welfare. Here in Tennessee, we contracted directly with the faith-based, the governor's faith-based office. which ironically we also just talked about in an earlier episode so Bill spoke to their West Tennessee Summit in May

okay Bill was one of the speakers I was there you were there yeah at the gardens not there yeah when I spoke yeah okay well there you have it yeah

you blew in and and stirred us up and then I left everybody thinks it was a mic drop I actually had a fire up my lumberyard I had to go that's honestly to get this truth All right. So you got connected with those folks.

Yeah, we'll find we'll work. They're good folks. With the state day hour, very much. We'll work with them on what funding is going to happen. And what does it, you know, our engagement for Restore Hope is usually a three-year plan to actually have built the state's infrastructure where you don't need us. You use our tools? Really.

But you don't need us to come in and do the training of your advocates and the training of your coordinators, the assisting, there's a lot of that's needed up front, but we want to build the infrastructure in a state where you can replicate and expand across the entire station. So you, you kind of onboard it for three years, and then you're able to go away and just keep the tool working well for them. Well, then if you, if you're in Iowa and Arkansas and Michigan and Tennessee, it feels like you got 46 more customers. That's right. There's tribes out there too. So that's kind of our goal ultimately.

Oh, no, that's interesting. Is to be able to contract with any of the nations or states who are very interested in helping people who are in multiple areas of crisis. That's what our tool does, is it organizes help using it's a technology existed help where the community, it's for the community, but by the community. And so we're helping the community organize itself. in a new way to solve its own problems. All right, so let's go backwards. Maybe before we go backwards, we'll maybe ask a question, Bill and we'll probably reinsert it later.

But I'd love to hear the gross story about what happened in Arkansas. Okay. Yeah, so if you're going to ask him about, like, you know, you started with those 100 families, but how did it, you know, in the more counties and how many, you know, how many people have you served? And I think last year was 550. Yeah.

So it is, you know, the 100 and then the 22, and the chief says it's working. So would we've gone from Fort Smith and 22 families to what? So we met with the governor at that time. And we had, I forgot how many clients we had in Fort Smith now that were being operated, but there was a new life in that county. It was so different than going in before and after they started partnering in this way. just the way that the leaders would communicate and would have hope that, hey, we,

youth crime is up. We've got to bring the community in. I need to show them this data. I mean, when your data's bad and you've got no hope, you're not seeking to display the bad news to anyone, right? But it was a very different way. I mean, you can't do anything about it yet everyone, especially the press, is going to hold you accountable to it. It may get called in front of committee meetings.

I mean, it's just, but you don't feel like you've got to. have tools to actually fix the problem. And so governor was like, no doubt it's working. I'm hearing from everyone. And I can see the data now. So I don't know if the lightning struck in Fort Smith or if it's replicatable. Let's find out if it's replicatable. So then we started three more counties, very different than Fort Smith to see.

One of them rule. One of them was Budera-Pilasky County. So our urban, our urban. Right. And then a smaller community. Little Rock's urban, for sure. Especially parts of it. But we've got deep history, deep history that's very different than the other communities in Little Rock, where we've got historic racial distrust.

We had to call the military out, allow black folks go to Central Iowa back in the 50s. And so, you know, all of that's lingering. Right. So it was the first one city. He said Little Rock. And then. Yeah, Crawford County is over in Western Arkansas. Arkansas, it's a small rural county, Van Buren, Arkansas,

at Searcy, Arkansas's kind of in the Delta and Litter Rock. And so we started there, we hired the people in partnership with United Way and really started to figure out how do we do this more than, you know, it took us a while to be able to get the full kit going here. Sure. But now can, you know, can we go to McDonald's and make great friends? I mean, that was an analogy. I kept thinking this, you know, you could take a guy like me, and in 20 minutes, I can make the best French fries the universe has ever seen.

You know, if I go into McDonald, they've just gotten it down to a place. So we're developing all those processes of how do we replicate what we do. They are the best of what we did. They are. I mean, it's a no argument. That's right. If anyone from Wendy's is listening. Or Burger King or anybody else, it's just your second best. Terrible. So I don't know if we can fix that problem. We'd go to McDonald's and just order like a Diet Coke and fries and no burger just for

the fries. I do. Yes. If I'm really trying to impress my wife, I will go to a couple different. I'll go to Sonic for the Coke and I'll go get her some fries. Boy, you're doing. Yeah. Yeah. That's when I'm trying to earn points. You got serious fast food games. You guys are so romantic. I am. I, at Hart, I'm a romantic. Sonic and McDonald's. That's it. What in the world were we talking about? You're from Arkansas. Welcome to the podcast. We're from Memphis. If you're in Chicago listening to us, you don't understand this.

Bless your heart. Now go ahead. Bless your heart. Yeah, bless your heart. So the replication we worked on for a couple of years. And then we had this church from Russellville, which is in the River Valley. And they came, and they were deeply embedded in child welfare and in homeless outreach in their community. And they said, we've got to have this.

You know, it's so hard for us to be able to coordinate all these actions for people that need it. You know, when can you come here? We're like, we're, you know, we're broke. And we're, I don't know that we have much more mind share. And so not for a long time, man. And they were like, that's unacceptable. How about we just come hang out with y'all? You teach us how to do it.

And we'll self-fund and we'll be a kind of an outside. And so that, their success over the next year, year and a half of kind of self-funding and bootstrapping their way into this and their community really gave us the vision of, okay, so we're not going to build a very large organization that's hiring and training case managers doing all that. But instead, we need to now get game. Now that we've replicated ourselves, now we need to help others replicate. And so, and that's where the model is right now. So from that first year, 22 families, how many families have you held now? In the last 12 months, it's almost 5,100 families, and I'm estimating it, it will be in the next 12 months.

It'll be 10,000 families. And so we're getting started to get into. And this isn't us doing it. This is us equipping the model. But the local communities. The tool that you have provided has now helped local communities help 51. And the end of last month, it was over 13,000 families. But, you know, it was a few hundred in year one and then a few more.

And then it became a thousand. And so, you know, it's got that growth curve. There are some enhancements that we're looking at in this system where we're starting to see bigger jumps kind of up the bar graph, the increase to where if we can get it super simple to be this advocate, it'll just take off. You know, it'll be hockey stick. Because then what we've enabled is you don't have to be a full. time dedicated advocate. And we made it so simple that you could actually be employed in another job, but on board some people and carry a case load, or you could work for, you could be a

volunteer of church. That's how I started down this road. Anyway, I was in financial technology, and my pastor got all up in our business, said, you ought to care about other people. And so me and some guys and friends of mine went to teach a manhood class in a local prison. None of us had ever been. And so that's the opportunity, I think, with churches and other civic organizations is if I can provide you a tool where you don't have to know everyone, but you can enter into the community and you could just start to help someone who's in deep.

I mean, they're in chaos and generating more of it, right? And so if I can equip you to be able to understand and sort that out and get a plan for them that would get them out of crisis and on to stability, and you can connect them with existing services. And then you can start to join that community and learn more about these things, but not have to be an expert on the front end. Then we're going to, we'll change the way that help us delivered. So, Bill, actually, when I saw Paul present alongside David Jordan in Memphis about all this, I asked just that question. Oh, do you see a future one day where volunteers, like members of the Army of normal folks, also members of our service clubs could serve as these advocates too. Yeah, why not?

Think about the exponential effect of that. If you could have 100 of these advocates or 1,000 in Memphis or who knows what it could be one day. The scale, the data of the scale done law. When you go from 22 families, your first year to 5,100, now 10,000, another 12 months, it's insane. But if you're equipped to this tool with all the families that you're interacting with, right? That's it. And I can't help but think about all the people I've interviewed that have done amazing work in foster care, amazing work in achieving access, in financial literacy, and all of those things. We have actually said in here, every one of them are doing incredible work, very effective work in that field, but they all have to connect.

There's got to be a circle connect to get it all working, and you have the tool that does that. You know, my realization came, the same realization different way. I left financial technology to go work for Fellowship Bible Church, my church. And part of my job was to oversee this fund. And when you give money away, all kinds of people figure out a way to get in front of you and ask you for it. And so I got to meet incredible people doing just like, you said, incredible work, but in part. And so we would, we would make these grants. And I would constantly be, you know, it really was kind of in 2014, 2015 for me, there was a real low point.

Because we were, we had these great things going on and we were helping people. But I was like, I mean, we haven't changed the system though. There are actually more people incarcerated now than when I started. And there are more kids in foster care. I know exactly what you're saying. We're helping. It is a, I say it probably too much. And Alex gets mad at me, but it is kind of like standing on the bank of river and pulling kids out as they slow by rather than going off river and getting falling in the first place.

The thing we didn't hit on is why people look at those issues as too. separate issues, but they are so entangled. Yeah. Can you speak to that a little bit, the entanglement piece? Yeah. You know, it's something that, you know, when I first started being a do-gooder, that I thought about it kind of in these, in those silos, too. You know, we had an after-school program we supported, so I kind of thought about it as students,

and we'd try to reach the parents. And mom was there, but dad was incarcerated. But then we would, and then I sometimes wonder, you know, we're in, we've got volunteers in multiple prisons. I wonder if we'll ever run into, you know, how would we ever run into dad? And then we had, got to be on the board and watch an effort go to raise up foster parents, of which we were some, and was kind of in that world. And I'm like, but what about the parents? you know, the kids we're fostering, adopting. I don't know how to connect the help that we have, you know, in the Exodus project or

they've gotten after school. How do we tie all that together and could never get it done? But you're exactly right. The way that we should and can think about these issues is that there are people who are in crisis. And especially if you're in multiple generational kind of crises is, is it's going to take a army of people. On average, there are 10 people on one of our case.

So there are 10 different providers. I was just about to ask you that. I'm glad you said that. So the tool, it will connect on average 10 people on one human beings. So that's incredible. And that one human being has to feel like they literally do have a, quote, village around them. That's right. So, and you just said the generational context.

that's an incarceration. I think we know what generational incarceration looks like generational poverty. I think we get an idea of what that phrase is, but what does that look like in the family that's in generational incarceration or generational poverty? What does that look like inside that? What is that dynamic living in that? It means that you don't know people who could provide you with opportunities maybe

to get your job. on your career path. Often. It's an access thing. There is an access for sure. There's also this, you know, when you're constantly in survival mode, your ability to actually have abstract thought and think forward. The future vision, you know, is absent because it's not really useful right then.

And so you're stuck in kind of this concrete thinking. And most jobs now require some level of abstract thought. You don't go and punch out, you know, things at the factory anymore. You're working the machine that punches it out. You're trying to optimize the machine. You have to understand. That's right. And so you need someone to be stable in order to be able to take them on the journey

to develop their mind in a way that can go make money now and to maybe make some different decisions that are more long-term payoffs than kind of short-term. So what you're saying is this generational incarceration. situation inside a family is when your mind is so blocked off by all of the dysfunction around you, you're not even able to think conceptually about tomorrow and everything else because you're just in such a chaotic crisis at the moment mode. You literally can't do anything about it. Yeah. You ever had a set of circumstances you've been in in life and you just just in no way out.

And I kind of view it. It's kind of like you vision, you start to get tunnel vision. And people were react different to kind of that pressure, but it's pretty predictable. And so, yeah, to be able to have someone to come in, especially if someone had been there before and had gotten out of the hole, those folks make great advocates. How about it? And so they earn quick trust. But that whole sponsor idea in the recovery communities and the fellowships.

But it's the, if someone could come in and go, Bill, got a lot going on. And your mind's just spinning with, you know, I got to do this and you got to do that. And what that puts you in often is not being able to do any of it. And so if I think it can be crippling. If I can come in and one of my goals, if I'm trained and I have the vision of, you know, one of the best goods I could. do for you is actually give you agency of your life back. But I'm going to be with you right now. I'm going to help you apply for, you know, this particular thing. Like, you got to get out of here. And I need you give me some sober days. So I'm going to introduce you to my buddy over here, right?

And he's going to, he's a professional or he's in a fellowship or something. But he's a specialist in sobriety of getting clean. And I'm going to introduce you to some of my friends. And then I'm going to help you access some other services. But I'm going to be with you. But if we can do. that, then we've got to take, that's a human-centered approach rather than kind of the transactional retail approach that a lot of help is offered. And if I can walk with you, then what I'm doing is I'm bearing some load for you in the beginning, but I'm giving that load back to you so that our relationship can be one of just true peers and you made it out. and hopefully, you know, we're friends or some people that you met along the way, you know, last beyond the transactional help phase.

You have a community of people in which you choose to be around. We'll be right back. You've heard the chaos. Now you can see it. Do we want to jump right in? Watch all your favorite podcasts from start to finish right inside the free IHard Radio app. Make some noise. Wooee!

Catch every laugh and eye roll on shows like. Bestie listen, Hey Jonas and Las Culturistas. Now with full video. I'll just leave that there. It's the same hosts and the same chemistry with all the hilarious moments you've been missing right on your screen. Open the free IHard Radio app. Search video podcasts and tap watch. When I was 14 years old, I was kidnapped and held captive for nine months. I survived and I've spent my life exploring how other people survive what should have destroyed them. I'm Elizabeth Smart, and these are the Survivor Files. I just remember this low, taunting voice next to my ear saying, shut up, don't say anything.

Every week, I'm with survivors who live through the unthinkable. I knew if he woke up, without a doubt, he was going to hurt me. I started feeling that there was someone at the end of my bed, and I just started screaming. They are abducted, stalked, controlled, and nearly silenced. But these aren't stories about what's taken from them. They're stories about what it takes to make it out alive. Listen to the Survivor Files with Elizabeth Smart on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. If your bookshelf and your For You page are equally important to your personality, welcome home.

This is Prose Society, the weekly podcast that's part bookbookbook. Club, part group chat for thought daughters, pop culture obsessives, and anyone who thinks Pride and Prejudice and Love Island deserve the same level of discourse. I'm Eli Rallo and every week we're connecting the dots between books, the internet, and the conversations everyone can't stop having. I'm going to have to look up this story. I'm obsessed. So I'm obsessed. From bestselling authors and your favorite book talk creators to the latest pop culture moments, nothing is off the table. It's like if you can hide some real messages inside compelling characters, then that is a Trojan horse. Whether you're looking for literary deep dives, smart pop culture conversations, or a community of readers who love to think a little too much, you're in the right place.

Listen to Pro Society on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. See you between the pages. On the new podcast Solita, we share the messy reality of traveling alone. as a woman. I can wait four hours for the next bus or this random dude is offering me a ride on his motorcycle. I chose option B. I'm Julie Pinero, and I travel by myself because it's a rare space where I can say yes without asking anyone else first. I'm on a mission to reclaim the word solita, trading the pity for possibility. Every time I tried to be alone, I kept meeting people and they were like, you smiled at us. Not a lot of people smile around here. It's when you're

alone that you're most receptive to the world as it is and not the lies you're sold about it. It can be a time where you push your limits, change your mind, or wake up to a new version of yourself. So whether you're a solo travel veteran or you're too nervous to book your first trip, I hope you listen to Solita on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I really resonate with something you said earlier. I employ about 140 people. And I am in manufacturing, old school manufacturing, lumber manufacturing. And we don't have anybody just stamping stuff. But we do have blue collar manufacturing jobs, lift drivers, lumber pullers, all that kind of thing.

You said something about a driver's license that I think the vast majority of our listeners and so many people take so for granted. Because you need a driver's license to get a job. You need a driver's license to have a bank account. So you have learned financial literacy. You need a driver's license to cash a check. You need a driver's license for a lot of things other than just driving. But you need a driver's license to drive. And you talk about the people that get into that narrow viewpoint because they're,

their minds racing. When you have a kid at home, you can barely make the rent, you're trying to keep the lights on, and you're driving to work without a license, the absolute terror of getting pulled over on the way to work means you're going to lose everything for not having a driver's license. And I know that because, and so we started helping any of our employees that didn't have a driver's license, just get their driver's license. I got to be honest with you, some of it was we're in manufacturing.

I need everybody to be at work. Sure. Right. It behooved me to make sure all my people had driver's licenses. But there really was a social aspect to it. And I'm like, this is ridiculous. Let's start helping anybody that wants to get the driver's license. I don't have one.

Let's help them start cleaning some of these old traffic tickets and stuff. And, you know, I wasn't going to get involved with somebody who had a felony. But if they actually had misdemeanors, we made loans and everything else. And I'm really happy to say that starting about 10 years ago, we got just about everybody works for us with the driver's license, right? But I learned just how important that is and how stressful not having it. And to trickle down of that stress and other aspects of life. The reason I'm asking this is something I didn't see that I think your tool helps connect the dots on is how can not having a driver's license prevent a parent from getting their kid back?

That's a biggie. Yeah. And you see that right. Sure. Tell us about you. Yeah. And so let's... And why your tool makes that better. Yeah. So if you don't have a driver's license, it's very hard to have a job. Anywhere in Arkansas, Tennessee. I mean, the public transport.

Anywhere at the U.S. Yeah. It's going to make very hard to get your kids to school, to go to the PTA meeting, to go to the meeting. You've got to go to work back and forth to get groceries. So the biggest tool that you can have for kind of self-advancement is a car insurance because it's just required to get anything else. And so if you don't, if you don't have that, you're right. It does provide a lot of stress. I've got an employee who eight years ago started his client,

and he had a lot of driver's license issues. It took him a while to get his back. But he kind of laughed one time after he had. gotten us back and he goes, and the people without driver's license to save drivers on the road, take all the back roads. He goes some way under the big seven. They're 10 and too. Go to say anything not to get pulled up.

He's like, I just got to get to work. Yeah. I've got to pull that lumber from Mr. Bill. And I'm going to get my paycheck and because, you know, baby needs some shoes. But, but, but yeah, fring someone up. All that stress actually doesn't do you. And he goes, especially if, if you don't know how to get out. of, you know, you, it was a $250 ticket, but that was a couple years ago.

Yeah, now $6.05. Yeah, right. And counting every month, you know. But how does that keep somebody from getting their children? So if you don't have children, you're probably not going to be able to get and keep a job. That may be one of the things is, and they don't say, hey, you've got to work to get your kids back, but you've got to live in a place that's not this. Can't have the floors coming in. You've got drug pair from now.

It's like, you've got to get to a better place. How are you going to get to a better place? if you don't have any money. And so how are you going to get any money if you don't have a job, at least part-time job? And how are you going to have a job? And if you don't have a car. And so, and I want you to come over here and meet

or I want you to come over here for visitation because I've got your kids. And part of getting your kids back is you're going to have a weekly visitation with your children who you love. But now, how am I going to work for you at the lumberyard? And I've got a ride here. So I've got a friend or my mom's taking me.

or whatever. I'm getting there. But at 10 o'clock, you know, I got to be over at the McDonald's, see my kids for an hour and a half for this visitation because if they don't sign off on me working out my visitation, then I'm not going to get my kids back. And it really is this pebble that starts down a hill that ends up a boulder. Something as simple as a parking ticket or a fine, you can't afford to pay. And then your license gets revoked and they don't have driver's license. But then it just all of this just ends up tumbling downhill. And you, And if your life is that boulder going downhill, you do lose soap. How do you stop this madness?

And it's why in Arkansas, we use some opioid settlement funds. And we've got some partners with some district courts. But once we get this alliance built in a community, then we use some of these opioid settlement funds and make grants in to local nonprofits to put one of these advocates at the district court. Oh, that's cool. Because now we're working with the judge and we can find you as you're headed downhill. Or you're out of prison now and you're trying to climb up the hill. We can find you and we can help you settle that. Because the judge says the best community service you could do is get back with your family and have a job.

It's like I don't want you necessarily to go down to city all and cut the grass or anything. What I need you to do to build is I need you to get a GED and I need you to go work at the plant welding because they'll pay you a bunch of money. But how do I help you get there? Because the judge isn't going to do it, but if we can partner and put an advocate in the court. And the judge believes them in the system that's doing it. Because they've got a constant report of performance. And then they will use exercise their discretion based upon your performance verified by me in the system. You've got 10 people around you.

And look, you've got a better job. You're doing the thing. Hey, you're in recovery. And they testified. You know, and verified by their PO. You're clean. along the lines of that world, you spent 12 years fostering and adoption and in prison reentry before any of this even existed.

What did you learn in that time that was really germane to developing this tool? I started as a volunteer in a prison. Me and my friends from church went in to teach a manhood. class that was very important to us, had done a bot in our life. So pastor at my church said, the chaplain wants someone to come teach it. What's the name of the class, Paul? Authentic manhood. Right now, the modern version of it's called 33. I've actually heard of 33. Yeah, it was, I think they filmed some of that a couple of years ago here in Memphis. Yeah, they did. That's how I heard about it. That's right. But the old school version was

three years. I actually became Christian out of that. I was living in the Middle East doing doing financial technology work for a U.S.-based company, but our client was there. And 9-11 happened while we were over there. And so religion and politics were what everyone was talking about. And I found out that I had not thought deeply about religion. And so I went on kind of this correct to figure things out. And months later, my son, my oldest son, was being born. So I I had repatriated my family after 9-11 and still fulfilling my contractual duties over there. But I came back in and a friend of mine said, hey, there are all these guys getting together at church at 6 a.m. on a Wednesday, you want to go? And he knew I wasn't much of a religious guy.

And he was like, it's not real churchy. And I'm like, dude, I live in the churchiest place ever. I mean, they shut down the whole town in Rio, five times a day. You know, I'll go. And it was the first time I'd ever been around Christian men. men who were actually dealing with real things and were serious. I had been around a lot of other religions who were very serious about it. And so it was really good.

There's kind of three years to it, the first year being the quest for authentic manhood. And it allowed many people to kind of sort things out. So when we would teach that in prison, we would have routinely half the prison would sign up to take it. And we'd kind of scoot them down into what would fit in the room. And we never had to recruit. It was just always a, hey, you need to get that class. And so that was a class. It ran in that prison and many others all the way up until the pandemic.

And so just different guys coming in to volunteering and build relationships with the guys and help them process. You know, I can't stay sober or, you know, she's taking the kids and I don't know what to do. Or they're waiting on me. And I've got to come back and I've got to be husband and dad and find them. a job and you know what am i going to do about those real real things for men and so um yeah i was a volunteer for a couple of years before pastor my church just said you know this this volunteer thing is is spreading we would love for that um kind of that volunteer-based effort uh to happen in more than just corrections here we'd come on elite missions and so i i did that in 06 uh worked in

in fellowship bible church and so it was a lot broad than just kind of corrections. Foster care. We had this red-headed woman come through. I had just left financial technology to become a pastor, which I didn't even really, I was trying to grapple with what that meant. And she comes through and whips out this PowerPoint.

She says, we have an orphan crisis in Arkansas, and especially in Plasky County, central Arkansas where we live. And as I read my Bible, you know, we're supposed to care about orphans and widows. and I'm here asking church leadership what we're going to do about it. So I've told you we had a problem. The Bible says you should care,

and I'm asking what you're going to do about it. And I was like, guys, I think she's got us boxed in here. I'm not used to this pastor thing, but it looks like a pretty airtight argument. She ended up launching something called the Call the Children of Arkansas Love for a Lifetime, which is routinely over the past 16, 17 years,

has been responsible. for recruiting at least half of all the foster parents. It's a vocally based model, again, working in your own communities to try to raise up support foster families. So that was another kind of effort that was going on. And then there was a school we had supported with staff and funding this after-school model for a school in Little Rock that had gotten an F and was in danger of, you know, bad things happening. And so we started this effort, tried to support them. But all those things and many more really gave me that perspective of, you know, no one's got everything. No matter how much money, no matter how smart you are, how many people you have,

there's only a couple of things you can do really well. But to be clear, you're still not trying to get one person to everything. You're just trying to get all the people that are really good at one thing to all be communicated. That was the adult of 12 years. Yeah. It was, and we had a new governor, and I told you I was a bit disappointed, depressed almost, and was really contemplating, leaving kind of the church where my kids were getting older, and we decided to have a whole bunch of them.

So they were like education, you know, important. They all wanted to go to school, which is wildly expensive. So it was like, I think I'm going to go back to financial technology, and I've got to make some money. and I don't know what I'll do about this purpose. I've still got this itch. Like I, you know, there's a problem that I'm supposed to solve and I didn't. And so I was on this task force for Governor Hutchinson in 2015 when he took office called the Restore Hope Task Force to deal with these crises of incarceration, foster care.

And so I thought, you know, maybe to slage my guilt of quitting, I thought maybe I will share what we've been talking about. I will share in a document. Yeah, I get it. I'm going to be standing in front of Jesus giving an account one day, and I wanted to say, but I wrote the paper with all my knowledge of 12 years, and I gave it to the man.

And so I did write the paper, which, you know, after that businessman had said, you've got to come up with a solution for the 10,000 problem. I kick rocks and got my feels for a little bit. But really, I did a lot of Google work on, you know, what scalable solutions look like? I don't even know the words to Google to figure out a solution on a scale like that because I am unable from where I was to even think about the parts of something like that.

And then I found a paper that was public. in 2011 in the Stanford Social Innovation Review called Collective Impact. And the two authors were also frustrated with their inability to support organizations and foundations in having population level change. And so they went on a quest to find communities that had solved very complex problems. And what did they do? And so they distilled that into a, these communities solve these different problems in different ways, but they all did five things. They gathered the right group under a common goal so you can be uniquely you.

But when we're together, it's about moving people from crisis to career or the environment or whatever it is. For us, it's moving people from crisis to career. That we're going to figure a way to produce data that changes. It's called shared measures. But when we're together, we judge our togetherness as failing or winning by some new metrics. And it's not your crime stats. It's not my number of plates served for food or any of those things. All those things are important to us, but what are the outcomes?

And then do we have the right people to provide overlapping service for the Delta, the A to B that you want? Can you constantly communicate? which without a tool, I don't know how you do that. And then the last one, though, and this is why many of the coalitions and task force that I had been a part of before is you had the right people. And they would envision, I called it the Blue Binder Club once I got cynical, is we would develop some vision for the future.

It was good and exciting. But we would publish the paper and be in the blue binder and it said it on my shell because there was no backbone or organization. that would serve the group as the group attempted to execute the plane. And so that's what we, that's what our solution is built around. Well, I was about to say, you think about those five things that that's a book or a paper they wrote. The paper. It's a short one.

It's an easy read. A paper that they put out, your tool basically takes those five indicators. I don't know what the word would be. And it answers those questions. that answers those issues, right? That's what it was designed for from the get-go. And there are six things that a backbone organization does. And so we help, like here in Memphis, Agape is just launching.

Tomorrow, they will launch their alliance. Is that right? Yeah. They've already got 21, 22. It's tomorrow. It's tomorrow. Governor will be in, and it'll be a great event. But they're just watching the start of,

the Shelby County Alliance to help people move, families move from crisis to career. And in Shelby County, you're going to need to grow that. Let's do 100 families first and see how it goes. No, they're going for more than that. How many? They have not, I'm not going to name their names. I'm helping them. Is it a bunch more?

It's a bunch more. Well, great. Our town needs it. They're going to try to build this network across existing networks and relationships so that ultimately what it should feel like to someone who needs help is you shouldn't have to try to find the place to go get it. So you should just walk in and be able to be connected to everyone else. That's the ultimate. It'll take years in Shelby County to be able to get there.

But we are narrowing in on some of the places that we've been for five years in Arkansas. I mean, hospitals are coming out board. And they're like, we're going to repurpose some staff in the hospitals that you could refer in with a company. complex thing, maybe medical, or we met someone and they need other things other than medical. And so now we've got communications directly in some of the big hospitals. It really does make, I mean, it makes profound sense from a guy sitting in my chair. Because, again, I've heard all these stories, and I see all these people doing extraordinary work on an issue. But connecting them all so that all of the issues can be worked on.

with an overview rather than a silo is awesome. We'll be right back. You've heard the chaos. Now you can see it. Do we want to jump right in? Watch all your favorite podcasts from start to finish right inside the free IHard Radio app. Make some noise.

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Open the free IHard Radio app. Search video podcasts and tap watch. When I was 14 years old, I was kidnapped and held captive for nine months. I survived, and I've spent my life exploring how other people survive what should have destroyed them. I'm Elizabeth Smart, and these are the Survivor Files. I just remember this low, taunting voice next to my ear saying, shut up, don't say anything. Every week, I'm with survivors who live through the unthinkable.

I knew if he woke up, without a doubt, he was going to hurt me. I started feeling that there was someone at the end of my bed, and I just started screaming. They are abducted, stalked, controlled, and nearly silenced. But these aren't stories about what's taken from them. There's stories about what it takes to make it out alive. Listen to the Survivor Files with a lot of them. Elizabeth Smart on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. If your bookshelf and your For You page are equally important to your personality, welcome home.

This is Prose Society, the weekly podcast that's part book club, part group chat for thought daughters, pop culture obsessives, and anyone who thinks Pride and Prejudice and Love Island deserve the same level of discourse. I'm Eli Rallo, and every week we're connecting the dots between books, the internet and the conversations everyone can't stop having. I'm going to have to look up this story. I'm obsessed. I'm obsessed. From bestselling authors and your favorite book talk creators

to the latest pop culture moments, nothing is off the table. It's like if you can hide some real messages inside compelling characters, then that is a Trojan horse. Whether you're looking for literary deep dives, smart pop culture conversations, or a community of readers

who love to think a little too much, you're in the right place. Listen to Pro Society on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. See you between the pages. On the new podcast Solita, we share the messy reality of traveling alone as a woman. I can wait four hours for the next bus or this random dude is offering me a ride on his motorcycle. I chose option B. I'm Julie Pinero, and I travel by myself because it's a rare space where I can say yes without asking anyone else first.

I'm on a mission to reclaim the word solita, trading the pity for possibility. Every time I tried to be alone, I kept meeting people, and they were like, you smiled at us. Not a lot of people smile around here. It's when you're alone that you're most receptive to the world as it is, and not the lies you're sold about it. It can be a time where you push your limits, change your mind, or wake up to a new version of yourself. So whether you're a solo travel veteran or you're too nervous to be. book your first trip. I hope you listen to Solita on the Iheart

radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I've got to ask something. If audience are by and large as normal folks, if you're listening to this show, you either engaged or want to engage

or want to engage more or at least interested in you know, non-government, non-larged top-down solutions, but more bottom-up, average people things. If you have one bit of advice through your travels, starting in the prisons, through foster care, through coming back from the release, through designing this thing, through telling,

being told it wasn't worked, to now having governors reach out to you, say, I need your help, I want this. The person listening to us right now, the member of the armed, the potential member army sitting on the sitting on the sideline wondering you know what is all of what you've experienced and what you've done and what you're currently continued to build and do what do what do you say to them about engagement i was moving my family back and then i repatriated i didn't want to go back to put iraq arkansas by the way where were you i was in riyadh savi arabia Yeah. And it was an adventure. It was great. We had two girls and then my son was born. I still wanted the international adventure. It paid really well and put us in a place to meet interesting people and kind of go along. So when I was coming back after 9-11 to Litterok, a lot of those opportunities were shut down at that time. And so I can remember being in church and thinking,

because the first year I was like, the world's going to open back up, and I'm going to get back in it. And then it started to really shift to, there's a community everywhere. Why don't you just start loving the community you're in? And I didn't know what that looked like, but I would say to the people that are there,

that might be listening and you're kind of unengaged is your engagement really needs to follow what you're good at. And so, you know, if you're a manager and you can think high level your building plans and all that, you know, might you consider being a board member of an organization where you can help them kind of get out of maybe a nonprofit, get out of survival mode? And or if you have relationships in town, you can help people with your relationships in the good that you're going to do. I would say that if your passion is truly around helping people who are really in crisis, then you're not going to be able to do it alone. You need to help the organization that you're volunteering with or a part of be as good as they can, but you've got to figure out how you're going to work with others.

And there's reasons why it's hard that are just kind of logistics, and there are reasons why it's hard that are more human. I don't like them or maybe if we partner with them, they'll take our glory and therefore our money or all the bad reasons that I have, by the way, and all of the partnerships that we've enabled, I've not seen once anyone lose a dollar. So kind of get over your zero-sum game fear. But that would be it is I would take a step to get engaged. If you're thinking about things like fostering, that's not a toe in or a weight in. that's a dive in, the deep end of the pool, is I would recommend that you go find organizations that maybe through your relationships, go find organizations that are close there, and go get

close to those people. And you'll become aware of the environment. And then you'll have opportunities. How do people get more information on Restore Hope? And go to Restorehope.io or HopeHub.io. And there's information about us. We write about community stories at smartjustice.org. And so we- Smartjustice.org. We publish articles and we'll have occasionally about once a year. We'll do a six-session

podcast interviewing a lot of leaders on a particular subject. So we've done foster care. We've done youth violence. That was the last one we did. We're about to do one on this no wrong door idea. So in the Fed, can you want to talk about us now you want me to come back to it. Go for it. Okay, so 30 years ago, we reformed welfare. And there were some changes made, I think, that we're good, but we're 30 years from anyone

tinkering with it. And so I don't know anyone that says that it's working just right. And you could look at outcomes, maybe, and say, you know, exhibit A as outcomes. But right before we did welfare reform in the nation, the state of Utah, did something where they merged their human services and their workforce services agencies together. And they called it one door. And so you could walk into a state agency and get any of the array of safety net or job-related searches all in the same place. That's interesting. Yeah, they call it one door. And so that one-door idea got picked back up at the Fed some number of years ago and is making its way around in is why do we silo all of the governmental services?

We need the government, just like you said, that we knew all the alphabet agencies, knew things, but we didn't know things for 9-11. In the same way, the state knows you in 20 different ways. But what could it do to actually help you? But if you just walked in, you got your driver. You got all the services. One door.

One door. And so Governor Sanders, in Arkansas was seeing this come up last year. And she said, given the way that the community in Arkansas, the organizations and the faith-based organizations are already engaged, I want to take one door and I want to leapfrog and I want to go to no wrong door. So I want to put no wrong door. No wrong door.

So I want to put the agencies on notice and in partnership with communities to figure out how the agency would deliver in concert with local health that already exists. Well, that even makes it easier for your tool to engage. We're the backbone part of that whole thing. And so we've been spending a lot of time talking with other agencies in, you know, how would we exchange information? Not that legally, how would we do that?

What information would need to be exchanged? You know, in our tool, we have permission from the participant. So it's their information. them. So they're saying, yeah, share my information. Put a team around me. I'd really need that. And thanks, by the way, but get after it. So don't bet things like, well, I can't tell you what they said. It's like I gave you permission. But how would we feed those systems together so that it would be easier to get someone driver's license? And into an Arkansas, we have many jobs that are pretty fast to pretty good money. I mean, truck driving right now is back in. as pretty good money, just across the river here from Memphis, and just north of us is some of the best steel plants that are there. And that's a really good job. You can be making six figures and not too many years there.

And so how do you build, how do you take advantage of that? In central Arkansas, we just keep growing more and more employment. And we've got a port there that has all kinds of manufacturing. How do we help prepare people to know that there's an opportunity and for them to take advantage of it. And so that's what we're looking at is how do we reach people who may not know that there are opportunities there and how do we help build a bridge into it? And along the way, if they've got some issues, how do we help them get right with everyone?

And restore hope and restore hope. Alex, you get anything? Like, practically speaking, if somebody's listening right now, what would be the best way for them to try to bring this to their community? I know it's a little bit complex. It's not the easiest thing, but if they were interested, what are the next best practical steps for them? Typically, we're working with human services or child welfare directors. We have a partnership with a national philanthropic organization called For Others.

It's Chris and Lauren Tomlin's foundation that they started. They will actually twice per year. they host a vision tour in Arkansas for these leaders to come and learn about the model to travel around to different communities and envision what contextually it would look like in their space. So that's kind of a hard one for someone who's not engaged right now in relationships with the government. But if you are and if you think it's right for your state and your community, then that's the starting point for us is to be able to talk with the human services. the governor's office or child welfare leaders, get them on site, allow them to figure out, you know, what it is and how they would. More importantly is, we have a lot of listeners and people that are engaged in this one silo of work. What they need to do is use their influence to reach out and say, hey, we could be connecting people.

Read that 2011 paper. There's a lot more that's produced on collective impact since then. But essentially, it really is simple in its understanding. It's difficult in its relationship. I'm certain. But you've got to put the right people into. I mean, the concept is simply, is simple and makes so much sense. The execution. The data is the hardest part for folks, because you may have data within your silo

for your organization and clients you served. but really what you're looking at is I need community level down. I need, so in our world, we're looking at how many kids are in foster care? What's the trend like? Is it trending up or is it turning down? What's the reunification look like? What are the reasons? And then you could go into your economic data is like, is that trending up or trending down?

Or kind of post-COVID industrialization? Is that happening in your community? What's the historic? What's the poverty rate? What's the substance abuse rate? Can I go and take a look at the overdose deaths, which, you know, we're plaguing all of us. A number of years ago seemed to be down the fentanyl deaths seem to be trending down overall, but is that true for your community?

And then you've got to find a way to kind of track that on a regular because it helps the community understand its own story. Yeah. And where to go. and then where to go. And then if you try things, then if you've got that data, then you can find out so what? Is it,

is, are we doing the good that we all want to do? One thing I think I'd seen you say somewhere else, Paul, too, is maybe one avenue for a lot of normal people is also find the potential quarterback organization in your community. So like an agape here in Memphis knows all the right players, you know, at the Tennessee level. So that's true for probably a lot of other people's communities, too, is they could start there and try to organize.

find those quarterback things and share this episode with them and share this episode with them and share restore hope with them and say hey this this tool can put it all together for us it's that bagbone organization is almost a make or break yeah it makes they can't be seen as real competitor they have to already have a heart for the community beyond themselves that can be very difficult especially if you're kind of organizations in survival mode it's hard to think about how to help someone else some other organization win. But if you can, they're in every community. I have not, not found one yet. Right. And in many communities, it's probably several. But if you can find that organization that's in a position to be able to play that backman role to serve the community coalition, we call it an alliance as the alliance

tries to work together, then, then you're going to see good. And as your historical numbers say, changes communities. Reunification rates are up in Arkansas. If mom will take the help she's offered, she improves her chance of reunification from 43 to about 70%. The job numbers are just incredible. Housing, too, is really good. And recidivism.

And recidivism. We've not had a, official recidivism number done yet. It's a three-year number. But we are a part of the, we are embedding that now in a reentry pilot. So guys right now in the pilot are being onboarded into the system and you're able to talk from inside prison. These advocates are to the local providers where the guy's going to be released to and go ahead and set up meetings. So they're prepped. So they're prepped. So you're not trying to build a plan.

No, I get it. You've got a plan. Now you're just executing. Just when you get out, it's all there for. You already got to meet it. That's got to give you hope as a guy getting released on parole or service time that, okay, I'm not going to be given 50 bucks and a bus ticket. Actually, there's a community to accept me into to help me get on my way. That's right.

It's got to change the trajectory of anything. We think so. And so does the commissioner or the secretary of correct. in Arkansas. She's right now looking at, okay, so the pilot is about over. It's working. How do we expand? So ultimately that every guy or gal getting out of Arkansas prisons would be able to be presented with the help if they would take it. One final thing. This is quick. I think that's an interesting data point you guys have. So to your point, Bill, about not pulling people out of the river, but why are they falling in?

That 75% of your clients onboarded in Arkansas in the last year did not have a child welfare case. That's right. But if you look at their assessments, they very easily could have been. So you were meeting them at the point before that happens. That's huge. Yeah, just the thing. My wife was a teacher back in the day. And I can remember one year in particular, she had two kids.

She had 26 kids in her classroom with some hippies that built their school building. So it was an open. It was no walls in the building. You believe that bookshelts to find the classroom. So it was one of the loudest places ever. And she was teaching second grade. She had these two kids. And she would spend her nights before making a plan for these two kids.

One was very pitiful. Sometimes it would have to do it. We'd have to do his laundry. Sometimes she would take some food to him. So he's hungry and dirty often. Had no clue. She knew something. was bad at home, no possess any tools to be able to reach it.

And the other kid was kind of hell on wheels. And she was like, how in the world do I, you know, get him settled so that I can have some kind of hope to teach the 24 kids. I must say all the other kids are close. Yeah. And so schools across our land, the teachers and the teachers' aides in the administration, they know the families that need help. They don't possess the tools to be able to get inside the family.

And so what they end up doing is putting IEPs and they do the best they can in the school. But that's not solving the core issues. And so if you can network schools in with these other helps and what we found is schools, there's actually in Batesville, Arkansas School District and in Iowa, there's two school districts in Iowa that are the backbones. And they're like, we already kind of do this. We've been doing it, you know, with paper and some other things. but now the tool is going to allow us to do so much more for so many more people.

And if your school is trusted, which many of them are, and they're a key institution, and every one of our communities, it's a perfect place, whether they're the backbone or a significant node in the network that you're building. It's crazy. It's awesome. I love it. So that's it, everybody. Restore Hope, started in Fort Smith, Arkansas, hopefully spreading across our country. Well, it is, but hopefully rapidly and really for my own purposes, I am so glad. I cannot believe it's tomorrow, but I'm so glad it's coming to Memphis. It's a needy community for things like this. So Paul Chapman, everybody.

Paul, thanks so much for taking the time to come down. And, Jeff, I hope you get plenty of good communication and picture stuff. Yeah. Thanks for being here. Really appreciate it. And thank you for joining us this week. If Paul Chapman has inspired you in general, or better yet to take action by exploring bringing Hope Hub to your community, partnering better with other nonprofits or agencies

to advocate for families, or something else entirely, let me know. Please, let me know. I really do want to hear about it. You can write me anytime at bill at normalfolks. us and I will respond to you. If you enjoyed this episode, share it with friends and on social. Subscribe to the podcast wherever you're watching or listening to it.

Rate it and review it. Join the army at normalfokes.org. Join or start one of our local service clubs. Take the 10 level challenge. Buy our merch. Any and all of these things that will help us grow, an army of normal folks. I'm Bill Courtney.

Until next time, do what you can. I survived nine months in captivity, and I've spent my life exploring how other people survive what should have destroyed them. I'm Elizabeth Smart, and these are the Survivor Files. Every week, I'm with survivors who live through the unthinkable, abducted, stalked, controlled, and nearly silenced. These are stories about what it takes to make it out alive.

Listen to the Survivor Files with Elizabeth Smart on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. If your bookshelf and your For You page are equally important to your personality, welcome home. Pro Society is a weekly podcast that's part book club, part group chat for anyone who thinks Pride and Prejudice and Love Island deserve the same level of discourse. Each week, we're connecting the dots between books, the internet, and pop culture, with your favorite writers, book talk creators, and plenty of overthought opinions.

Yeah, I'm obsessed. I'm obsessed. Listen to Pro Society on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Hoda Kotbby, host of the podcast, Joy 101 with Hoda Kotby. You know, I'm always searching for inspiration and useful tools to maximize joy. Like when my friend Henry Winkler offered advice to aspiring actors and really anybody hoping to stand out. You're not hired just to fill time and space. You're hired to fill the space with you. Listen to Joy 101 with Hoda Kotby on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Did you hear the new episode of The Hey Jonas Podcast? We are at D23, so we'll see who stops by. The cast of Frozen stopped by, Kristen Bell, Josh Gad, and Adina Mansell. I audition for Frozen. What? For Christoph. They said, okay, what are you going to be singing today? I said, I don't know.

That must have been why you didn't get it. Oh, you probably won. Plus, John Stamos, Hayden Christensen from Star Wars and more. And I guess I can share that... No way. Listen to the latest episode of Hey Jonas and the Iheart radio app. Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcast.