An Army of Normal Folks - How To Find Light in Life’s Darkest Corners (Pt 1)

Episode Date: April 14, 2026

Most people don’t find purpose after losing a child—Joe Herr did. After his 4 year-old son died from complications of having cerebral palsy, he started Logan’s Heart and Smiles, a nonprofit that’s helped 450 other families with disabilities by building wheelchair ramps and home modifications —and showing us how service can bring light to the darkest corners of our lives (and the lives of others).Support the show: https://www.normalfolks.us/#joinSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Christmas morning when Logan was alive, it was very, very hard. I'd go to my sister's house and my nephew, who's two years younger than Logan, ripping open his presents, doing all the things he's supposed to do, and Logan couldn't open anything. He's just sitting there. You know, and you'd give it to present and you'd help him and stuff. But not being able to see your child have the joy of Christmas morning or the birthday parties or any of those things are exhausting and...

It's painful. Painful, yeah. It's just painful. And I know I went through this to serve and help these families. Welcome to an army of normal folks. I'm Bill Courtney. I'm a normal guy. I'm a husband.

I'm a father. I'm an entrepreneur. And I'm a football coach in inner city Memphis. And that last part somehow led to an Oscar for the film about one of my teams. It's called Undefeated. Guys, I believe our country's problems are never going to be solved by a bunch of fancy people and nice suits using big words that nobody ever uses on CNN and Fox, but rather by an army of normal folks. That's us.

Just you and me deciding, hey, you know what? Maybe I can help. That's what Joe heard, the voice you just heard, has done. Joe's son was born with cerebral palsy and died when he was just four years old. But instead of isolating himself in pain, Joe has used it as fuel to serve others, starting with building ramps for families of children with disabilities. In 24 years later, his nonprofit, Logan's Heart and Smiles, has helped 450 families with ramps, bathroom remodels, specialty beds,

and really anything else that will improve the lives of families like his. Joe will teach you how to find light and life's darkest corners right after these brief messages from our generous sponsors. You know the famous author, Roald Dahl. He thought up Willie Wonka and the BFG. But did you know he was a spy? Neither did I. You can hear all about his wildlife story in the podcast,

The Secret World of Roll Dahl. All episodes are out now. Was this before he wrote his story? I must have been. What? Okay, I don't think that's true. I'm telling you, the guy was a spy. Binge all 10 episodes of The Secret World of Roll Doll.

Now on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. When you listen to podcasts about AI and tech and the future of humanity, the hosts always act like they know what they're talking about and they are experts at everything. Here, the Nick Dick and Poll Show, we're not afraid to make mistakes. What Coogler did that I think was so unique. He's the writer-director. Who do you think he is? I don't know. You mean the president?

You think Canada has a president. You think China has a president. Los Angeles Rousette. God, I love that thing. I use it all the time. I wrap it in a blanket and sing to it at night. It's like the old Polish saying, not my monkeys, not my circus.

Yep. It was a good one. I like that saying. It is an actual Polish saying. Yeah. It is an actual poland. Better version of Play Stupid Games, Wednesday. Stupid prizes.

Yes. Which, by the way, wasn't Taylor Swift, who said that for the first time. I actually, I thought it was. I got that wrong. Listen to the Nick, Dick, and Paul show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Kristen Davis, host of the podcast, Are You a Charlotte? In 1998, my life was forever changed when I took on the role of Charlotte York on a new show called Sex and the City. Now I get to sit down with some of my favorite people and relive all of the incredible moments.

this show brought us on and off the screen. Like when Sarah Jessica Parker shared that she forgot we filmed the pilot episode. You forgot about it? In the very long time they took to pick us out. And when the show was picked up, I panicked. And Cynthia Nixon reveals if she's a Miranda. We both feel confident about our brains. But that's kind of where it ends.

Plus, Sex and the City super fan, Megan V. Stelion, doesn't hold back on her opinions of the show. Carrie will literally go set New York on fire and then come back and type about it at the end of the day. Like half of it wasn't her fault. Listen to Are you a Charlotte on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey there, folks, Amy Robach and T.J. Holmes here. And we know there is a lot of news coming at you these days from the war with Iran to the ongoing Epstein fallout, government shutdowns, high-profile trials. And what the hell is that Blake lively thing about anyway?

We are on it every day, all day. Follow us, Amy and TJ for news updates throughout the day. Listen to Amy and TJ on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. Joe Hare from Madison, Wisconsin. Welcome to Memphis. Thank you. I love it here. I'm glad you got to experience a little bit of our town. Yes, I love it. And I hope you'll come back and experience more of it.

Everybody, Joe's, first of all, we will get to it a minute. For Joe's presentation personally is absolutely hysterical, and he is clearly a guy that can laugh at himself. And we'll use every ounce of his fiber to make a difference in people's lives. And we'll get to that later. But just know I'm sitting across from a leprechaun. All right. So we'll get to that later. That's quite a tease, Bill.

What's funny is so I was picking him up from the Peabody yesterday to bring him. And he sent me a picture of, here's what I look like. I'm like, all the kids, this two looks like a freaking lepercon. And I didn't read the prep yet, so I had no backdrop. I'm like, what is going on here? Did you take them to Silkes? You should have got to Silkes on Bill. It's an honest pod.

They loved you. That would have been a good idea. They would have loved you. Well, I'm not even in my leprechaun stuff. We'll get to that. We'll get to that. But first, Joe is the founder and program director of Logan's Heart and Smiles.

Your foundation, the Logan Heart and Smiles, is named after your son, and certainly we're going to, in a minute, celebrate the incredible work you do to help families who have children with disabilities. But your and Logan's story doesn't necessarily start with what we'd call celebration. Tell us about the day Logan was born. Well, the day Logan was born was just a whirlwind of holy, you know what. So we went to the hospital the day before on a Saturday, and then they said it was that Braxton Hicks or whatever they call it, the fake contraction thing. I'm not a medical doctor or an OGBI guy, so I know very little of this stuff.

So they sent us back home that Sunday morning, the next morning, we went to the, hospital after her water broke, normal thing, and then all of a sudden they literally rushed me out of there. And this is in 1997, so the world was a little bit different then. They put me in a small little room, not much bigger than a closet, told me to gown up, whisked my wife out, and we were in an OR or whatever, an operating room of some sort of birthing. and they told me to gown up.

They did an emergency C-section. There was no crying, no nothing. And I'm still like, what's going on, especially being a first-time father in your late 20s. You don't know what's going on. And next thing you know, they put him in a box, literally whisk him off, and he's in the Nick unit for 32 days.

He was nearly three weeks old before I got to hold him for the first time. So it was just an emotional and what's going on whirlwind, which is anyways with a newborn, much less with all those medical things. And back then, we had to literally scrub up. We went to a separate room where it was a clock. You had to scrub up with iodine in the brush and all that stuff and put on a gown no different than if, like, doctors did,

to go in and see them because there were other, you know, kiddos in there like that. Grandparents, none of them could go in and see him when he was like, yeah, probably three-ish weeks old, right before three weeks old, was the first time they would take him out of there and we went into a special room where we could hold them. And then there was one time when I got to hold them in there. There's a picture somewhere around here of that. Was he premature? No. He was born seven pounds, six ounces for, you could see, I'm four foot 11. And my wife wasn't any bigger.

he was a 100% normal full-term baby. It's called cerebral palsy is what his official diagnosis came. But all cerebral palsy is is lack of oxygen to the brain during or in vitro or during birth. Why it's not a stroke, because it's the same thing as a stroke. And it can be as debilitating as a stroke in some cases or as little it's debilitating as a stroke can be in some. places. So Logan wasn't getting oxygen during childbirth. Correct. How does that happen? My metal degree does it. I don't know something. I'm assuming the bellic cord was tied up. He could have a swallow. I have no idea. I don't even know if they know now because cerebral palsy

CP is still a thing. So it's, it's, I have no idea. We were talking on it before I went on air. I used to coach high school wrestling, and there was a kid that I thought was just kind of a klutzy kid. Well, it turns out he had one of the probably most mildest forms of cerebral palsy, and he just had limited use of his right arm. And I give him tons of credit for going out and trying a difficult thing with a lot of, you know, quote, limitations, but yet opportunities.

So how long was it after his birth before you found out that Logan had cerebral palsy? Well, officially, so he was nonverbal and had a feeding tube. So when we brought him home from the hospital, because his mother refused to get his, basically a feeding tube is a toggle bolt that goes in your stomach is all it is. And there's a little balloon that. But since Logan was nonverbalt, and couldn't eat, he immediately qualified for extra help that a lot of times kiddos don't get. But since they don't officially diagnose anything until you're usually about two-ish to three years old because they don't know if it's just developmental delay or whatever.

But the fact that he couldn't speak and that he couldn't eat on his own was telling. So we literally had a tube. There's the other thing. So when we get him home, you know, our training literally was here's the stethoscope. Here's your bag of little needles and basically a feeding tube that we put down his nose. And then you tape it to his face. You had to switch that every three or four days. So the one side of his nose and whatever cavity didn't get too scarred and have problems.

the most frightening part, as a new dad, when you find out that you've got to use that stethoscope to push air in to make sure it's going into his stomach and not into his lungs. Because obviously, if it goes into his lungs, he'll drown. So can you imagine as a new father and my wife never was comfortable doing any of those medical things? So it was challenging at times to say the least. But I also know when he was in the Nick unit that there was a reason that this happened. I mean, was it stressful and overwhelming? Of course.

In fact, my wife, Logan's mom at the time, I had a staff infection. So she was in the hospital for a week. my son's in the hospital I'm literally running back and forth between the two rooms for a week now she got out after a week and all that so it could have been her septic you never know what happens

you never know. Were you scared, we sad, were you overwhelmed? I mean... I was scared, I was overwhelmed, frightened for sure. I was never bitter though. I really wasn't. I would say, especially all through Logan's life,

Why him? Why? I prayed to God often. Give him, I knew it was wrong, but give him my healthy body, and I'll take his. At that time, you know, I was 32 years old. No, that's, sorry, when he passed. So whatever. I was in my early 30s, late 20s, and I'm like, I figured I had a fun, healthy,

successful athletic career. Let him live the things that most, you're supposed to be able to live that we take for granted. Obviously, that didn't happen. And I just knew there was a bigger purpose. And the night after he died, I mean, it was still chaotic. I went through a tremendous divorce right after Logan died because his mother just couldn't handle his disability. And I wanted this to be all positive, but it's reality how this affects families with special needs. And I knew there was a bigger purpose to his life. I always knew it.

I built a ramp in our garage for him and didn't think anything of it. There were no programs out there for it. So that's how Logan's Heart and Smile started. And now a few messages from our generous sponsors. But first, I hope you'll follow us on your favorite social media channel. where we share more powerful content, including reels from our video studio and testimonials from Army members. We're at Army of Normal folks on every channel.

Give us a follow. We'll be right back. You know the famous author Roald Doll. He thought up Willie Wonka and the BFG. But did you know he was a spy? Neither did I. You can hear all about his wildlife story in the podcast, The Secret World of Rolls, Roll Dahl. All episodes are out now.

Was this before he wrote his stories? It must have been. What? Okay, I don't think that's true. I'm telling you. I was a spy. Binge all 10 episodes of The Secret World of Rolled Doll. Now on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

When you listen to podcasts about AI and tech and the future of humanity, the hosts always act like they know what they're talking about and they are experts at everything. Here, the Nick Dick and Poll Show, we're not afraid to make mistakes. What Cougler did that I think was so unique. He's the writer-director. Who do you think he is? I don't know. You mean the president? You think Canada has a president.

You think China has a president. The law crusade. God, I love that thing. I use it all the time. I wrap it in a blanket and sing to it at night. It's like the old Polish saying, not my monkeys, not my circus. It was a good one.

I like that saying. It is an actual Polish saying. It is a lot. is an actual poll. Yeah, better version of Play Stupid Games, win stupid prizes. Yes. Which, by the way,

wasn't Taylor Swift who said that for the first time. I actually, I thought it was. I got that wrong. Listen to the Nick, Dick, and Poll show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Kristen Davis, host of the podcast, Are You a Charlotte?

In 1998, my life was forever changed when I took on the role of Charlotte York on a new show called Sex and the City. Now I get to sit down with some of my favorite, people and relive all of the incredible moments this show brought us on and off the screen. Like when Sarah Jessica Parker shared that she forgot we filmed the pilot episode. You forgot about it? I completely forgot about it.

And when the show was picked up, I panicked. And Cynthia Nixon reveals if she's a Miranda. We both feel confident about our brains. But that's kind of where it ends. Plus, Sex and the City superfan, Megan V. Stelion doesn't hold. hold back on her opinions of the show. Carrie will literally go set New York on fire and then come back and type about it at the end of the day.

Like half of it wasn't her fault. Listen to are you a Charlotte on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey there, folks, Amy Robach and T.J. Holmes here. And we know there is a lot of news coming at you these days from the war with Iran to the ongoing Epstein fallout, government shutdowns, high-profile trials. And what the hell is that Blake Live?

thing about anyway. We are on it every day, all day. Follow us, Amy and TJ for news updates throughout the day. Listen to Amy and TJ on the IHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. Joe, why don't you tell me what you shared in the car about his grave site? Oh, so part of the part with the challenge is, again, I want this to be positive. Well, what you have done as a result of this trauma is really positive, but to understand and the importance of what you do,

we have to understand where it comes from. So it's not negative or positive. It's reality as I see it. Fair enough. So going through, I never knew that a burial plot is considered real estate. So a real estate is part of a divorce settlement and all that. So Logan, unfortunately,

just because of all the legal stuff associated with it had an unmarked grave for a year, that just, infuriating me beyond belief. It happened again for a reason, and I know that I've been blessed with these experiences because I know,

I don't want to go too far in that the challenges these families face and the struggles are real every day. And please forgive me too, just so you know, I'm an ADHD specialist. So if I can't stay on track, just slap me.

Judge, fine. I'll lead you. What was Logan's birthday? August 24th, 1997. August 24th, 1968. That's the sky. Oh, really? We have the same birthday.

Holy shit. Oh, I'm sorry. Yeah, when I read his birthday, I giggled. I thought, oh, we share a birthday. We got a dirty lepercon in front of us right? Oh, yeah. Mischievous. We call it mischievous.

Something else we, share a in loosely yeah is i don't know if you know but my wife's little brother ben will not little younger brother ben when i met lisa he was seven okay special needs he operates on about a second or third grade level now he's 40 something um i did not know that well and i married lisa yeah and ben was of my life that day. And so I've spent 1992, so 26 and 8 is 34, 35. I've spent 36 years with Ben and Ben is my brother-in-law. And I guess I want to just say to you, he's much

higher functioning than Logan was, which we're about to get into. But he had, he'd been remains challenging from the standpoint that he has in addition to his physical limitations he has behavioral issues as a result he doesn't have a filter so when he's happy

he's the happiest guy in the world but when you piss him off oh hell here goes because there's nothing to there's no filter right all to say I've witnessed firsthand and in a very personal way the unimaginable stress that a child with disabilities and a person with disabilities can put on parents, siblings, a family. I've been in the grocery store at the stairs. I've gone to the movie

when he laughs at inappropriate stuff because to him it's funny and then, you know, the head snaps and stairs. I've dealt with all of it. And I did not know that you'd gotten a divorce before you just said it, but I've seen what Gary and Peggy, Lisa's parents have been through. It takes a toll. A hundred percent. And then you just brought up a point, and I don't, again, we're going to go all over a place probably, but I tell people or ask people, I should say, how many of you know somebody or have a family member who has a disability. And I hate the term disability. To me, it should be special gifts or special abilities because we all clearly has taught you lessons that you would never know in your family. You're absolutely dead nuts, right, Joe. And I challenge it's worse

for your in-laws because Logan, when you have a physical, ability or a physical different ability, that is something tangible that people can understand. But when it's the mental side of it, it'll be autism, downs, your brother-in-law, there's so many things, people look and stare, what the hell's wrong with you? Why can't you control your kid or if they're an adult? What's wrong with this person? And that feeling of... struggle, emotions, and it never goes away.

So then for most of these families, their life's concave, and it gets smaller and smaller. And as an atypical parent role, your kids get bigger, stronger, older, wiser, you know, all those things. And then the goal is that they move out on their own. Well, that rarely happens for any of these. kiddos. And it's... And their family. And their families. Exactly. So your in-laws, since day one, what's going to happen? I'm sorry, what's your brother-in-law's name again?

Ben. Ben, that's thought that she said. So Ben, what are we going to do with Ben? It's, whatever. I could go on for an hour's... Well, it's... It's actually what I wanted to talk about next, which is, you know, a baby with disabilities often gets pity. But you don't often visibly see the things that are, quote, wrong with them. As they get older, though, that becomes more apparent, and it's harder. What got more difficult for Logan, specifically, is Logan got bigger. So he was, it's called spastic. So cerebral palsy is lack of oxygen, so then his brain, you know, had a damage.

And like I would tell people all the time or still do, it's no different than we've all been to a house where the light switch turns off something wrong that it's not supposed to or whatever, an outlet at the lamp. So that was kind of the same thing. So his muscles, it was a year before we could get his fingers to loosen up. They were always so tight. Same with his biceps and whatnot. But his trunk was so floppy.

He never sat up on his own. So it was those challenges. Was it that he didn't have control over those muscles? His brain would be sending him. impromper signals to the muscles, correct? He didn't have control. I've seen the spastic thing before. One time we took Ben to a Special Olympics bowling thing, and there was a young man in a wheelchair,

and his father had built a ramp that attached to his shoulders, and they would put the ball in front of his face and position his wheelchair, and he would nudge the ball with his chin. It would roll down the ramp through his lap onto the thing and go. but I do remember on occasion just for no particular reason, his arms would just flail. Is that what you're talking about? Yes, it is, yeah. And he could never relax.

He hated car rides, hated, hated him. Why? I don't know because he was nonverbal. I really don't know. That's another frustration. You don't know, you know, just like when a newborn, you're just guessing if they're hungry, tired, or whatever. Now, Logan and I were kind of on the same plane

when I held them, I could calm them down usually, not always, but usually. And I don't know if he just didn't like the feeling of being confined in a car seat or what it was. But as he got older, and mental and emotionally for me, when you went out in the world, I was prepared for the looks, the stairs, the questions, and we had fun with it at sometimes. But when you went, so Christmas morning when Logan was alive was very, very hard. And the reason I say that is nothing that my sister, I love her to death, did, but I'd go to my sister's house. And my nephew, who's two years younger than Logan, ripping open his presence, doing all the things he's supposed to do. And Logan couldn't open anything.

He's just sitting there. You know, and you'd give it them present and you'd help. help them and stuff, but not being able to see your child have the joy of Christmas morning or the birthday parties or any of those things are exhausting and... It's painful. Painful, yeah. It's just painful. And again, I know I went through this to serve and help these families.

and we have an amazing team now that has done it because we've been doing this now for 24 years. Well, just don't go there yet. Oh, okay. But so where it was painful, and when I go, every time I talk to a family, as soon as I say Logan was my son, you could see the relief that somebody understands it.

I tell them all the time. I suppose your family and friends only say that they can imagine and they understand and stuff. They said, yep. I said, but none of them do. And they said, yep, similar to our conversation before we went on air. It's true. People can empathize.

People can care. But I don't guess unless you've walked in their very specific shoes that you really do understand. Correct. And it's just like our society, we have, you know, volleyball clubs, football clubs, band, all the things, especially with club sports. So they become their own little networkers and communities, which are beautiful and great. The thing is, how many communities are there for disabilities and those parents? And then on top of it, there's many, because we help families with three, we could give to, you know what, about the medical affliction.

And where it goes is, you know, there's multiple organizations for kiddos with downs and autism and all the other different things that are out there, which are phenomenal. But imagine having a child with a rare undiagnosed thing, so you fit into nothing. So now on the island of, quote, misfit toys, now you're a misfit amongst those. And we and I, they're not misfits. They have different unique gifts and abilities that we all have to see. No different than in nature. If you see an albino deer, everybody just flocks to it.

But as a human being, if somebody's different, we run from it because we're scared. We'll be right back. You know the famous author, Roald Dahl. He thought up Willie Wonka and the BFG. But did you know he was a spy? Neither did I. You can hear all about his wildlife story in the podcast, The Secret World of Roll Dahl. All episodes are out now.

Was this before he wrote his stories? It must have been. What? Okay, I don't think that's true. I'm telling you. I was a spy. Binge all 10 episodes of The Secret World of Roll Dahl. Now on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

When you listen to podcasts about AI and tech and the future of humanity, the hosts always act like they know what they're talking about, and they are experts at everything. Here, the Nick Dick and Poll show, we're not afraid to make mistakes. What Coogler did that I think was so unique. He's the writer-director. Who do you think he is? I don't know. You meet the, like, the president?

You think Canada has a president? You think China has a president. The law crusade. God, I love that thing. I use it all the time. I wrap it in a blanket and sing to it at night. It's like the old Polish saying, not my monkeys, not my circus. Yep.

It's a good one. I like that saying. It is an actual Polish saying. Yeah. It is an actual thing. Better version of Play Stupid Games win stupid prizes. Yes. Which, by the way, wasn't Taylor Swift, who said that for the first.

I actually, I thought it was. I got that wrong. Listen to the Nick, Dick, and Paul show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Kristen Davis, host of the podcast, Are You a Charlotte? In 1998, my life was forever changed when I took on the role of Charlotte York on a new show called Sex and the City. Now I get to sit down with some of my favorite people and relive all of the incredible moments this show brought us on and off the screen. Like when Sarah Jessica Parker shared that she forgot we filmed the pilot episode. You forgot about it in the very long time they took to pick us out? And when the show was picked up, I panicked.

And Cynthia Nixon reveals if she's a Miranda. We both feel confident about our brains. But that's kind of where it ends. Plus, Sex and the City super fan, Megan V. Stelion, doesn't hold back on her opinions of the show. Carrie will literally go sit New York on fire and then come back and type about it. at the end of the day. Like half of it wasn't her fault. Listen to Are You a Charlotte on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Hey there, folks. Amy Robach and T.J. Holmes here. And we know there is a lot of news coming at you these days from the war with Iran to the ongoing Epstein fallout, government shutdowns, high-profile trials. And what the hell is that Blake lively thing about anyway? We are on it every day, all day. Follow us, Amy and TJ for news updates throughout the day. Listen to Amy and TJ on the IHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. Like so many of our guests, you've transformed this horrible pain into extraordinary purpose.

Before we go to why you've done this and then what you've done, how long did Logan live? Four and a half years. So born what year? 97. Okay. So 2001. 2002. He died 0-2, 22 of O2, all twos, which is every time I hear twos.

I bet. It's, and actually he died 24 years ago this past Sunday. You know today is a two, Joe. It's March 2nd. Oh, yeah, it is. No, I didn't. I didn't even think of that. Yeah.

So twos have a special connection for me. What calls to stay? So he died it due to complications of pneumonia. Well, if your diaphragm, you can't even sit up. I would assume something like pneumonia, especially. It's very common with kiddos like Logan, yeah. And he'd been in and out with the doctor multiple times. How do you deal with a kid that's sick that's nonverbal

and can't tell you what's bothering him or where it hurts? You just, we had a connection. So, again, I could calm them probably 80% of the time and not always. So. Do you think he was frustrated? Oh, 100%. But he also brought unbelievable. He was also had the biggest smile would be the happiest since he couldn't stand up or walk.

He would lay on the ground and kick his legs like he was running. and just laugh and giggle, laugh and giggle. And then he also taught me the beauty of the water shimmering. You know how water shimmers and it kind of reflects like diamonds? He would sit on my lap and just, well, I assume that's what he was doing. He did have, thankfully, spectacular eyesight. He would watch that and just laugh and giggle. He'd watched leaves Russell in the trees.

Same thing, laugh and giggle. And he liked watching golf, believe it or not, because he could follow the golf ball. It was, he had a very special, magical gift that I know I was given this and blessed with this opportunity. And I haven't done anything by myself. This is a group of amazing people, army of normal folks literally who have helped us for 24 years make us who we are today. Okay, we'll get to that. I have one more question. Yeah. And this is way off script.

Well, good. I'm never on script. Good. There's Bill. That's bull. I've been following your daggum scripts. I know. I'm just playing with you. I know. We can take the script and throw it away far as I'm concerned. No, it's important so people can follow the story, but it's going to take me a second to form this question in the right way for perspective. I listen to all of our guest stories, just like I'm sitting here listening to you. And I really try hard to empathize with your story by walking with you in your shoes.

So I'm hearing what you're saying, and I'm saying, wow, Bill, what would you be doing if that were your situation? And so that's how I follow your story. That's how I follow all I guess stories. I don't know if I'm supposed to. That's just what I do. And I had this thing just pop in my head that I want to ask you. And I have to be really careful how I ask it. You're not going to offend me.

It's not offense to you. It's offense to anybody else listening to us that has a family like Ben or Logan. When he passed, after he passed, and you had a little bit of time to get over the anguish and pain that no parents, should go through, which is the loss of a child, given the demands that Logan put on your life for four and a half years, did you exhale? Was it in some way freeing that you've had this experience and you've learned so much from it? But the work, the never-ending hour by hour, I can't imagine you ever slept for eight or nine hours in one night because I know what my in-laws have gone through with Ben. I mean, there was one time driving to work.

I didn't sleep at all. I'm sure I dozed off for four days in a row. And I literally, you know, how the sun's in your eyes and the stoplight didn't, head nodded, and I hit the car. Luckily, we were going slow in front of me. I understand how that happens. It's exhausting. That's why I'm asking the question. After Logan's death, at some point, did you just go, okay, and exhale for yourself?

I'd probably say no. And the reason I say that is because I was going through a divorce and as we're going to go here, because by the way, I'm remarried to an amazing woman who gave me a kidney on top of it. We'll talk about that later. But I'm trying to get our listeners and myself. in your frame of mind before we go on to what you did. That's why I'm asking the question. Okay, so to answer your question,

and I'm frankly coming at peace in terms with it, maybe even just now. So I went literally from 24-7, constant care worry, giving them a shot every day. Making sure he eats, trying to figure out what's wrong with them all of it. Well, yeah, exactly. And you know what?

One other thing, and I won't get disgusting about it, but being regular, one of the things that keeps your regular is walking. You would never think that. So it was just doing that. And I did multiple things just to keep, I mean, literally basic stuff. So whatever, 24-7 care, and there's no question. I felt an empty void and loss.

But then yet I also felt peace. And then I'd feel guilt about that piece. That was my next question. 100%. Because now once you exhale, you're like, I shouldn't be exhaling. My son's dead. Now I'm guilty. And you feel guilty.

I'm just imagining the set of emotions. You feel guilty that you don't have to deal with those things anymore. And we'll keep going on because I jump around too much. But we have helped other families. I'll explain this with the vest. We'll get to that. Yep. Who have lost children.

But losing a child is traumatic in itself. Losing a special, a gifted child with different abilities is a whole. different component just like raising them is. So to answer your question, I put all of my loss and pain into purpose through Logans and building, and we'll talk through that as we go, but physically building stuff. And being a former athlete, physically doing stuff is the only way I know how to, quote, operate. I'm not Einstein by any means. I'm not.

I'm not a great thinker like you, Bill. I'm not. Don't put, don't. You're going to be real disappointed. Okay. That's helpful. So, when we talk about transforming your worst pain and disordinary purpose, it's really important to understand what that pain looks like.

And it just did in the loss of a child. It's guilt. It's exhale. It's all of it. I mean, it's an enormous. set of emotions that you were faced with as a 34, five-year-old guy going through a divorce. The divorce largely, I don't know what your divorce is about, but these circumstances had to at least add.

They added for sure. To the issues. So my question is, and now you can talk about it. Did you have an epiphany? what was it that said I want to start Logan's Heart and Smiles at this point? Why and what were the first steps?

So literally, I just, like I said, the night, he died on a Friday night on February 22nd, as I said, of 02. And the first night was, I was numb for probably two years, but I was numb, whatever. The next, so it's Sunday, sometimes Sunday. I don't know if it was during the middle of the night.

I'm like, you know what? And I walked down the ramp, I built them. I don't know what, but I, like, we should do this. I also, so warm water calmed him. We tried every therapy you can imagine, both conventional and unconventional. So we literally took part of our garage. I met myself and some friends helped me and converted it into we bought a used hot tub, put it in there. And it helped him so much.

Unfortunately, he literally only got to use it twice because then he passed away. And I would do that in the middle of the night while or whatever, while I, you know, when I wasn't taking care of him or whatever. Because his mother just struggled with, I'm not saying she never did anything because that's not true or fair. but I primarily was the one who could calm them and certainly did all the medical stuff that was involved with it. So you go from that to empty nothing and you know you think you got your life plan with your retirement and all those kind of things

and now in a whisper it's all gone. So building things certainly... And you built a ramp for him. Yeah, I built a ramp for him. So in 2002, he died in February. We got our official 501C3 incorporated papers in May of 2002, so shortly after he died. And in June was the first ramp.

We did three projects that year. So you just decided, in honor of my son and the families that I know that are struggling like me that don't have something as simple as a ramp to get their wheelchair-bound children in and out of their home. I'm going to just start building some ramps. Pretty much. That's how it started. That's how it started.

And luckily, I had a friend's friend who did all the legal paperwork for us. And I had a full-time job. Frankly, Logan's had zero staff for 20 years. I would literally night some weekends. What'd you do for a little? Project manager for a contractor. Okay. Yeah.

So a leprecha. Did you ever lepercon? on any of those? Anyway. Actually, I have. I bet you have, but we'll get to that. So, really, you just decide there's other people like me who couldn't build the stuff that I could build,

so I'm going to start doing this. Correct. And it's also, you know, a lot of it was if you're also rich, you could pay for it, if you're ultra poor, or it might be government services, which are both misconceptions. But also, yeah, but also, even if there is some

resources, they don't have the time to breathe, much less do something like that. They don't, and they usually don't have the construction knowledge of what the proper requirements are. So it's a safe, you know, project, build, whatever you want to call it, because we're a licensed contractor in the state of Wisconsin. We pull building permits when needed. We get inspections. we do all the real stuff because you have to. I'm laughing because you're just another example. Listen, I don't take ownership or authorship of a whole lot very often.

I repeat a lot of what really smart people say. And sometimes people attribute it to me and they really shouldn't. All I'm doing is repeating something I read when I was sitting on the bathroom one morning. This one I did say, I said, after about a year of doing these podcasts, it dawned on me that the magic happens when someone's passion and discipline, he hates when I say, Alex hates when I use discipline, so I use watered downward abilities. Yeah.

When someone's passions and abilities intersected opportunity, you're a contractor. You have the ability. You're clearly passionate about your understanding what families and these children go through. and you saw an opportunity to help. That's really what this is. That's all life is. It's not that hard.

It's not that hard. It's so good. It's not that hard. If it was, I couldn't do it. Trust me. And you know what? One thing that a lot of people say, which is true, I have been unbelievably blessed because everybody knows, as they say, Joey needs help.

Even yesterday, when I flew down, I stayed out at O'Hare at one of my best friend's house. I've known him since fourth grade. He's on our board. And whatever. I said, I think I'm on United. Well, I was actually on America. And if you think I've never gone to the airport before and they said, sir, you're on the wrong airline. You'd be like it. So the point is there's nothing magical or impressive in this little body. And that concludes part one of our conversation with Joe Hur and you don't want to miss part two. It's now available to listen to. Together, guys, we can change this country. And it starts with you. I'll see you in Portfield. You know the famous author, Roald Dahl.

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