An Army of Normal Folks - How To Transform Your Worst Pain Into Unstoppable Purpose (Pt 1)

Episode Date: January 27, 2026

After mixing antidepressants and alcohol, Christie Luther hit someone with her car and they died. She spent 4.5 years in prison, where she discovered her purpose to create Oklahoma’s first cosmetology school inside a woman’s correctional facility. The R.I.S.E. Program has had 286 students and only 1 of them has ended up back in prison, which is unheard of! And while Christie still lives with extraordinary regret and shame, she will show you how to keep living and transform your worst pain into unstoppable purpose.  To learn more about R.I.S.E, visit riseprograminc.comSupport the show: https://www.normalfolks.us/premiumSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

being incarcerated. That's where I found my purpose. So I was involved in an accident, and I struck a man that was standing on the side of the road. I didn't see him there. And I was leaving a funeral. I was at a friend of mine's mom's funeral. And so you leave a funeral and you create one. I mean, that's devastating. Welcome to an army of normal folks. I'm Bill Courtney. I'm a normal guy. I'm a husband, I'm a father, I'm an entrepreneur, and I'm a football coach in inner city Memphis. And the last part somehow led to an Oscar for the film about one of my teams. It's called Undefeated. Guys, I believe our country's problems are never going to be solved by a bunch of fancy people wearing nice suits using big words that nobody ever uses on CNN and

Fox, but rather by an army of normal folks. That's a lot of people. That's a lot of people. That's a lot of people. That's us, just you and me deciding, hey, you know what, maybe I can help. That's what Christy Luther, the voice you just heard, has done. She took one of the greatest pains a human being could ever have and transformed it to make it count for something. While in prison, she came up with the idea to create Oklahoma's first cosmetology and barbering school within a women's correctional facility. And when she got out, she felt like crazy to make the rise, program a reality. Nine years later, they've had 286 graduates and students. 80% of them are employed in the industry post-release, and only one person, one, has gone back to prison.

Christy will teach you about transforming your pain into purpose, following the callings on your heart instead of ignoring them, and so much more, right after these brief messages from our generous sponsors. mind control is real. If you could control the behavior of anybody around you, what kind of life would you have? Can you hypnotically persuade someone to buy a car? When you look at your car, you're going to become overwhelmed with such good feelings. Can you hypnotize someone into sleeping with you?

I gave her some suggestions to be sexually aroused. Can you get someone to join your cult? NLP was used on me to access my subconscious. NLP, aka neurolinguistic programming, is a blend of hypnosis, linguistics. and psychology. Fans say it's like finally getting a user manual for your brain. It's about engineering consciousness. Mind Games is the story of NLP.

It's crazy cast of disciples and the fake doctor who invented it at a new age commune and sold it to guys in suits. He stood trial for murder and got acquitted. The biggest mind game of all, NLP might actually work. This is wild. Listen to Mind Games on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast. or wherever you get your podcasts. And the winner of the IHeart Podcast Award is,

you can decide who takes home the 26 IHeart Podcast Awards Podcast of the year by voting at IHeartPodcastawards.com now through February 22nd. See all the nominees and place your vote at IHeart Podcast Awards.com. Audible is a proud sponsor of the Audible Audio Pioneer Award. Explore the best selection of audiobooks, podcasts, and originals all in one easy app. Audible. There's more to imagine when you want to.

Listen, sign up for a free trial at audible.com. You know Roaldahl, the writer who thought up Willie Wonka, Matilda, and the BFG. But did you know he was also a spy? Was this before he wrote his stories? It must have been. Our new podcast series, The Secret World of Roll Doll, is a wild journey through the hidden chapters of his extraordinary, controversial life. His job was literally to seduce the wives of powerful Americans.

What? And he was really good at it. You probably won't believe it either. Okay, I don't think that's true. I'm telling you. I was a spy. Did you know Dahl got cozy with the Roosevelt's? Played poker with Harry Truman and had a long affair with a congresswoman.

And then he took his talents to Hollywood, where he worked alongside Walt Disney and Alfred Hitchcock before writing a hit James Bond film. How did this secret agent wind up as the most successful children's author ever? And what darkness from his covert past seeped into the stories we read as kids. The true story is stranger than anything he ever wrote. Listen to the secret world of Roll Dahl on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

The more you listen to your kids, the closer you'll be. So we asked kids, what do you want your parents to hear? I feel sometimes that I'm not listened to. I would just want you to listen to me more often and evaluate situations with me and lead me towards success. Listening is a form of love. Find resources to help you support your kids and their emotional well-being at Sounded Out Together, That's sounded out together.org. Brought to you by the Ad Council and Pivotal.

All right. Obviously you're going to hear a different interview's voice. It's producer Alex. And you may be asking why. Well, I've had season tickets to Ole Miss football games since 1991. Every year. I've donated, I've given, I graduated there. Kids of mine have gone there.

It's just been something we've always done. Lifelong fans. I've been through the Tommy Tuberville days, the Hugh Freeze days, the Billy Brewer days, and every year I think this may be the year. Well, this may really be the year. And unfortunately, we schedule guests months in advance to travel to Memphis to do our interviews.

And the festival, all happened to be the same time that Christie was in town. And unfortunately, I had to roll out on a previous scheduled interview to go to Arizona to watch my old Miss team play Miami. So, because of that unfortunate scheduling debacle and my unwillingness to miss that this may actually be the year, Alex will be interviewing Christy and I will be listening to the interview and adding in my two cents. So that's why Alex is the interviewer today. Christy Luther, it's great to be with you. It's great to be here. Thank you for the opportunity. Sorry that I'm subbing in for Bill Courtney. Our host has derelicted his duties again, Cassius.

He went to see his old misplay in the Fiesta Bowl. That's awesome. And so everybody's got a substitute host today. That's great. Hopefully we don't screw this up. No, I'm in good hands. So, Christy is the founder of an amazing program called RISE, which we're going to get into a lot. But I want to first start off with a question that gets to the heart of the matter. Okay. Christy, why would you educate a murderer?

Because I think everyone's life is valuable. I think God can redeem a life. He can redeem brokenness and he can redeem our mistakes. And you know a little something about that, too, don't you? Yes, personally. Well, maybe we'll get to that in a minute. You're actually a Memphis girl. I am.

You were sharing that it's been quite a reflective time being back here for a day. And feel free to share anything about that. But what was your child like here in Memphis? How has it impacted your life? Yes. So being from Memphis, I just, I feel rooted. I feel connected here. It goes deep.

And I just love it. You know, I always say, you know, Memphis, the home of rock and roll blues and barbecue. I mean, what else do you need, right? And so my childhood here, I mean, there was some verbal abuse and some physical abuse growing up. And it impacted me in a way that caused some father wounds for me. And then especially when I was in high school and we moved from Memphis and had to move to Oklahoma City, that really impacted me because I felt safe, secure and at home here in Memphis. Yeah. We were talking on the car on the way over that, you know, if you've gone through some kind of trauma, like,

that of abuse, and at least I think you had the stabilization of your grandparents and some of those relationships and a stable environment that you knew. But after going through trauma like that, and then having the court ripped out and going to another environment just must make it a lot worse. Yes. It was, I mean, it was hard. You know, I was about to graduate with everyone I'd gone to elementary school with. And, you know, that was my, that was my stability. And so to move, you know, eight hours away to unknown land, you know, and just a different culture altogether. That was really hard. And so, you know, I just didn't want to connect with anyone. And it had some effects even to this day, you know, in my adulthood. You said you became a little bit of a rebel being

a lot of a rebel. Oh, my gosh. Do you just that when you dyed your hair? I assume that your hair's died. That's not natural. No, I, no, I actually am a redhead. Both my grandmothers were red-haired. And I just, I was platinum blonde. I was rebellious, you know, I wasn't going to eat. I was a fighter. I started smoking and drinking and doing lots of stuff that, you know, that people experiment with different things.

And yet you figured out how to be a successful salon owner, it sounded like. I mean, take us to what that was like and then this hole in your heart that I think you still felt. Yeah. So to be a salon owner, well, you know, I finally made it through high school in all my rebellion and went to cosmetology school. What do you mean about you finally? How many years have it taken? No, no, no.

Just after we moved to Oklahoma City, there was just still a longing to, you know, want to be accepted or belong and out there, over there in Oklahoma City, and I just didn't feel that way. So thankfully, being the oldest daughter and oldest child, I just have an entrepreneurial heart and a business mind. And so I just started going to work after cosmetology school.

on a salon and, you know, just started building my life on what I wanted it to look like. And if you don't mind talk about, like, how many other people were working in the salon or how are you guys doing revenue wise? Like, what was your life like before it came crashing down? Well, I had a salon with 15 employees in it. And really, yeah. And really, it was pretty easy because we do a booth rent situation where they just sublet their space from me. And I was making quite a bit of money, that's for sure. And so, you know, just having 15 people paying rent, $450 a month times 15, you can do the math on that.

It was pretty good. And then I, you know, got married and then was a mom. And I've been in this industry for some decades now, a lot of decades. Yeah. Yeah. So what felt off to you in that moment? It's a common story. Despite the financial success, it did not solve all the world's problems.

It did not solve all the problems. You know, I did not grow up in church. at all. We didn't go to church while we lived here. And then when I moved to Oklahoma City, we still didn't go to church. And so, funny, funny thing, I worked in a Christian salon before I owned my own. And it was a- I never heard of that before. It was a Christian salon. Well, we have Christian schools now. So, but it was- But do they only take Christian customers? No, no, but they played all Christian music, their Bible studies, all the things, right? Yes, yes.

And I was not, I was not any of that. And I was- What? They let you work there? Yeah. Even as a non-gritty, interesting. I'm sure that the Holy Spirit said, hmm, love are we going to get her. Are they trying to save you? You know, no, they were very sweet about it.

I actually was a party girl, so I would come in with a hangover, and they were having Bible study in the back, and all I wanted was coffee. And they were like, hey, good morning, can we pray for you? I was like, nope, I don't want any of that. And I just didn't know, you know. And so they were so loving to me. They never said, you're going to go to hell on a slip and slide, because of your behavior.

They just loved me, you know, and that resonated with me. And it really, I don't know, it helped me to begin my relationship with God. And it was on August 18th. I was at lunch, driving around and doing the foxhole prayer that says, God, if you're really real, you know, help me. Because I just felt so lost. I just did not have a connection. And so I got saved and baptized on my lunch break and drove back to that Christian salon,

like soaking wet and ready to do a perm that day. So can wepties you're crying? No, because I got baptized, the whole body dunk. And that was it, you know? And so that started my life as, you know, as a believer and, you know, had some ups and downs along the way for sure. But yeah. Yeah, just because you believe doesn't take away all the problems. That's 100% true.

That really is true. At least if not, you've not fully surrendered yet at this point. Well, and again, you know, if you have never been to church or never read the Bible, like, what does that look like? How do you even know where to begin, you know? So who do you ask? What do you do? And I think about that, too, we walk past people all day long. How many people are lost or don't feel connected, but don't know how to get to a relationship with God or get, you know, restoration with family? Or if you don't know, what do you do? How do you go about that? So you have a successful business, you came to faith, and yet still there's a hole in your heart. What did you feel inside of you? And then what did you do to try to fill that hole? I just, I think I've always just felt like an outsider. I think part of it being redheaded, kids are mean and brutal, you know, when you're redheaded and you're one of the few. It just always felt like I was kind of an outcast. And so then moving to Oklahoma from here, that felt,

I felt like an outcast. I didn't feel like I fit in and trying to find your place. And so as an oldest child or, you know, I lost my grandmother, one of my grandmothers when I was young. So not having that relationship, having some significant dad wounds in my life. Like you're just, like you're just trying to make it. You're just trying to have some sense of normalcy. But what is normal? You know, what is normal? It's everybody's own definition, I think. So, yeah, I tried the best I could with, you know, with what I had. Even something that many Memphians would see as normal. We're talking about on the drive here that you grew up here and yet you had never

been to the Peabody to see the ducks. I know. We knew about the Peabody. Yeah. Yeah, that would feel normal. Right. But even we've interviewed people guests in the podcast. And I'm sure it's the same in Oklahoma City, too, that a lot of people, even in

inner city neighborhoods, have not gone five miles to downtown to Chicago to see the lake. Right. And so, yeah, obviously your normal was different from a lot of people. So I think you try to fill that hole with, was it drugs, alcohol? What did you use to? Drugs, alcohol, promiscuity, just, you know, I love to travel. So I feel like sometimes that's an escape for me. And just trying to fill it, you know, trying to fill it in relationships.

And then, you know, if you have father wounds, you know, what does that look like? You were trying to just have a normal conversation with a, a man, you know. So it was really trying to navigate some difficult pathways. And I'm pretty stubborn, so I didn't ask for help, you know, in that. So I think, you know, just trying to find who I really am. And sometimes I think many of us in life, even up to our 30s, maybe sometimes even 40s, like, what's my purpose? Surely I'm not here just taking up space on this planet. Like, there's something more. And I felt like I was always made for something more to do something more or bigger. And I just didn't know what that was until.

Even a lot of people would feel, hey, you got a successful business. I think you got a husband and kids at that point. Like, they would feel like that's your purpose. Yeah. No. Yes, many people would feel that way. But I'm very driven. I don't usually take no for an answer very often.

I'm an innovative thinker. I'm a problem solver. So if really it boils down to this, if you see a need, you have been called. So in certain areas of my life, I just had this innate need to want to help people. And I wanted to maybe because I needed help or I needed rescuing. And so I kind of want to do the same. Kind of have the moniker of the mama bear, you know, in Oklahoma City with many of the ladies that I work with. So women are funny.

Like we don't, sometimes we don't like men. After my man, my money, my whatever. But it was our own insecurities in ourselves, you know. So, and what I do now, we just help fortify a sisterhood that elevates women to be able to embrace everybody. And now a few messages from our generous sponsors. But first, we've launched our first six local service clubs around the country. at a time when only 33% of Americans are contributing in their community at the level that they want to. The mission of these clubs is to make more service easier for everyone.

The first six are in my hometown Memphis, Alex's hometown Oxford, then Wichita, Atlanta, Ozaki County, and North Duchess County, which is New York. If you live in one of these areas, visit the service club section of our site, NormalFolks. And if you don't live there and you want a service club in your area, email Alex, because these are the first six, these are the pilots, but we're going to be doing more. Like other Army members that are launching clubs in their communities later this year, including San Antonio, Lincoln, Nebraska, Huntsville, Alex. Alabama, Licking County, Ohio, Lorraine County, Ohio. If you happen to live in one of these following areas that are interested, email Alex at army at normalfolks. us, and he'll get you connected to them.

This is going to be fun. We'll be right back. What if mind control is real? If you could control the behavior of anybody around you, what kind of life would you have? Can you hypnotically persuade someone to buy a car? When you look at your car, you're going to become overwhelmed with such good feelings. Can you hypnotize someone into sleeping with you? I gave her some suggestions to be sexually aroused.

Can you get someone to join your cult? NLP was used on me to access my subconscious. NLP, aka neurolinguistic programming, is a blend of hypnosis, linguistics, and psychology. Fans say it's like finally getting a user manual for your brain. It's about engineering consciousness. Mind games is the story of NLP. It's crazy cast of disciples,

and the fake doctor who invented it at a new age commune and sold it to guys in suits. He stood trial for murder and got acquitted. The biggest mind game of all, NLP, might actually work. This is wild. Listen to Mind Games on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

And the winner of the IHeart Podcast Award is, you can decide who takes home the 26 IHard Podcast Awards Podcast of the year by voting at IHart. IHeart Podcast Awards.com now through February 22nd. See all the nominees and place your vote at IHeart Podcastawards.com. Audible is a proud sponsor of the Audible Audio Pioneer Award. Explore the best selection of audiobooks, podcasts, and originals all in one easy app. Audible.

There's more to imagine when you listen. Sign up for a free trial at audible.com. You know Roaldol, the writer who thought up Willie Wonka, Matilda, and the BFG. But did you know he was also a spy? Was this before he wrote his stories? It must have been. Our new podcast series, The Secret World of Roll Doll, is a wild journey through the hidden chapters

of his extraordinary, controversial life. His job was literally to seduce the wives of powerful Americans. What? And he was really good at it. You probably won't believe it either. Okay, I don't think that's true. I'm telling you, the guy was a spy. Did you know Dahl got cozy with the Roosevelt's?

Played poker with Harry Truman and had a long affair with a congresswoman. And then he took his talent. to Hollywood, where he worked alongside Walt Disney and Alfred Hitchcock, before writing a hit James Bond film. How did this secret agent wind up as the most successful children's author ever? And what darkness from his covert past seeped into the stories we read as kids. The true story is stranger than anything he ever wrote. Listen to the secret world of Roll Dahl on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get

your podcasts. The more you listen to your kids, the closer you'll be. So we asked kids, what do you want your parents? parents to hear. I feel sometimes that I'm not listened to. I would just want you to listen to me more often and evaluate situations with me and lead me towards success. Listening is a form of love. Find resources to help you support your kids and their emotional well-being at soundedouttogether.org.

That's sounded outtogether.org. Brought to you by the ad council and pivotal. So you did find your purpose in a way that maybe wasn't ideal, but often is the way that people find their purpose. That's right. Maybe a little bit more dramatic than most people, though. That's true. And because I feel like the rebel or the stubbornness that I have,

I think it had to come in a very firm, direct way that I wasn't anticipating. And it actually came through being incarcerated. That's where I found my purpose. Can you tell us the whole story? Yeah. So I was involved in an accident. and I struck a man that was standing on the side of the road. I didn't see him there.

And I was... For mixing narcotics and alcohol? Was that the... Yeah. And I was leaving a funeral. I was at a friend of mine's mom's funeral. And so you leave a funeral and you create one. I mean, that's devastating.

And so I did have prescription medication. I had depression. I had, you know, uppers, downers, they were all prescribed, none illegal, illicit drugs or anything like that. That's how I justified it, actually. My doctor prescribed everything for me. And so, you know, you multitask, you know, texting and driving and just being, you know, making some grave, grave mistakes. And I struck him as he's, you know, was on the side of the road. And I hadn't even seen him there.

The sun was setting. It blocked a part of the road. It was darkened. And, you know, I could go on and on. But the truth is that it was my fault. It was my mistake. And so that sentence carries four years to life in Oklahoma. I was very grateful to have family support during that time.

and I ended up with a five-year sentence. And I served four years, four months, four weeks, and one day. And it's shameful. And I ask God sometimes, how is this part of my story? Why is this part of my story? I still wrestle with the shame and the guilt from that. And so I was determined to do my life differently. And I wanted it to count.

And I wanted to make a difference. and, you know, there's no do-over. You can't make up for that. You can never apologize enough or repent enough. It's just, I just knew with all certainty and everything in me that I wanted to do something different in honor of my victim to say it in that regard of him and his family and whatever else. It was total surrender to whatever God wanted to do at that point. And so I worked in a beauty shop at the prison and the law library. So I have a great idea about the Department of Corrections, their operations procedures, and post-conviction relief.

Maybe before we go there, your victim's family seems to have an interesting part in this story because four years to life is a huge range. And even though it's accidental, I was still surprised when you told me that it was, you know, I think around four and a half years that you ended up doing. Yeah. You know, it sounds like they played a pretty graceful, an amazing role in it, if you could talk about that. Well, to not know everything that they were feeling, other than significant loss, and I'm sure anger, the family had a say in the plea agreement

and the, you know, the court hearings and everything. And they knew I had a say. a 13-year-old daughter at the time and a three-year-old daughter. And they agreed to a lesser time frame, and that was part of the plea agreement, instead of taking it to jury trial, there was nothing to debate. I mean, there was nothing, no reason to go to jury trial. And so they were gracious enough to, I don't want to say agree, because I don't want to speak for them, but it happened in the way that they had a

say in the time that I had to be incarcerated. And it was less than should have been probably or less than the maximum sentence. Have you heard anything? Like how often does that happen? Percentage-wise, that probably feels pretty rare to me that maybe five or ten percent of families would respond with that much forgiveness in the moment. It's one thing maybe one year later, five years later, ten years later is you're wrestling with it as a, you know, have family, but for them to respond that way immediately is pretty heroic. It is. And, you know, I pray that I don't want to say there's restorations one day.

I do pray that if they keep up with anything I do, that they might see that lives were changed in this tragedy. And that's what I can hope for. you know, I don't expect there be some grandiose meeting or something like that. That would be wonderful, but I don't need that whatever they ever would want to do. I would be open to that or welcome to that. But I just have to keep going. I have to keep going at the momentum that I'm at because lives depend on it. And it's my need or my want to help people.

to make my life make sense after that. That's pretty hard to have on your resume, on your life resume. That's not anything I would have ever imagined. You know, I love people. I don't even like it hurting someone's feelings. So to have that as part of my story, you know, and I'm not the only one. So there are other women, even in my class, that have anywhere from 10 years to life. and so how do you reckon that?

You know, when someone has life and you say, I had five years and I understand what you're going through. Or, you know, they're in the very class and one has life and one has eight. Why? You know, and it's just the way that the sentencing guidelines are in Oklahoma that a judge has the liberty to say, you get this and you get that. So there's nothing very streamlined about it. that's why the vast range is what it is. Well, I really appreciate you sharing all that.

I know it's really hard. And not that what I went through is the same thing. But unfortunately, my ex-wife wanted a divorce, and our listeners have heard me talk about this. But, yeah, I know. I mean, as a strong Catholic, invented all my life, when I was single, I used to go to daily Mass. Like, I was, you know, I've been super into it.

And never imagined that this would be my story. You know, as you never imagine, this would be your story. It is hard to wrestle with. But I do appreciate you sharing it. I was, I don't know if you've heard, I'm a big fan of Diedrich Bonhofer. Yes. I'm basically paraphrase using his line, but he has this line that the problem of Christians is they're lonely in their sins. Yes.

Or their problems. And whereas the sinners at the bar have so much more fellowship with each other because they share everything. Right. So I think it's really important for all of us to share our trials that we're going through because people can learn from it. It also helps them feel less alone. Otherwise, people just feel like I'm the only one going through this crap. And the reality is we all are all carrying some kind of cross out there. And I did feel like I was the only one.

And it's the shame, I think, that I carry with that. It's unimaginable. It's not something I ever would have imagined for my life, you know. But I do get the opportunity on occasion to share my testimony. And it's all that we're doing today, basically in a 15-minute nutshell, you know, if you will. and I get to share it with thousands and thousands of people to say this is part of my story. And that portion of my life is the hardest portion that I've had to go through because of the weight and the burden that I bear from that accident.

Yeah, well, it's a gift of the world that you're willing to tell it and tell it over again because it's hard. And we're going to get to the amazing work that you're doing at a minute. If you mentioned the shame, I was going to plan on talking about. about this closer to the end, but you have an interesting line that, like, a lot of people think about stigma and we need to get rid of the stigma or the shame. Yeah. And you kind of flip that on its head in an interesting way. Can you talk about that? Well, to bear the shame and the guilt. It's not anything I ever, you know, wanted to have on my personal life's resume. And in that, I mean, I wear that. I carry it. I think about it every single day. I really, every single day.

I know the anniversary date. I know how many years. I know all those things. I know the man's name. I mean, it's very personal to me. And there's an element about it that keeps me humbled. It keeps me grateful. It keeps me moving forward.

It keeps the momentum in me to want to help other people and see restoration for them or their families. I'm sobriety and it is very important to me. and I preach about that, you know, to my family members or friends or, you know, about drinking and driving and being mindful, you know, so I use it. I speak at the prisons and that is, it's, I mean, you can't have a testimony unless you've been through a test, right? And you can't have a message unless you've been through a mess. And both of those have been mine. So if I share it, then it hopefully, even if it's one person and it changes them or helps them or encourages them, then that one, that one, that's, that one person is who it was for. Hopefully more. We'll be right back. What if mind control is real? If you could control the behavior of anybody around you, what kind of life would you have?

Can you hypnotically persuade someone to buy a car? When you look at your car, you're going to become overwhelmed with such good feelings. Can you hypnotize someone into sleeping with you? I gave her some suggestions to be sexually aroused. Can you get someone to join your cult? NLP was used on me to access my subconscious. NLP, aka neurolinguistic programming, is a blend of hypnosis, linguistics, and psychology. Fans say it's like finally getting a user manual for your brain.

It's about engineering consciousness. Mind games is the story of NLP. It's crazy cast of disciples and the fake doctor who invented it at a new age commune and sold it to guys in suits. He stood trial for murder and got acquitted. The biggest mind game of all? NLP might actually work. This is wild. Listen to Mind Games on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

And the winner of the IHeart Podcast Award is, you can decide who takes home the 26 IHeart Podcast Awards Podcast of the year by voting at IHeartPodcastawards.com now through February 22nd. See all the nominees and place your vote at IHeart Podcast Awards.com. Audible is a proud sponsor of the Audible Audio Pioneer Award. Explore the best selection of audiobooks, podcasts, and originals all in one easy app. Audible. There's more to imagine when you listen.

Sign up for a free trial at audible.com. You know Roldall, the writer who thought up Willie Wonka, Matilda, and the BFG. But did you know he was also a spy? Was this before he wrote his stories? It must have been. Our new podcast series, The Secret World of Rolde, is a wild journey through the hidden chapters of his extraordinary, controversial life. His job was literally to seduce the wives of powerful Americans.

What? And he was really good at it. You probably won't believe it either. Okay, I don't think that's true. I'm telling you, the guy was a spy. Did you know Dahl got cozy with the Roosevelt's? Played poker with Harry Truman and had a long affair with a congresswoman. And then he took his talents to Hollywood,

where he worked alongside Walt Disney and Alfred Hitchcock, before writing a hit James Bond film. How did this secret agent wind up as the most successful? successful children's author ever, and what darkness from his covert past seeped into the stories we read as kids. The true story is stranger than anything he ever wrote. Listen to the secret world of Roll Dahl on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. The more you listen to your kids, the closer you'll be. So we asked kids, what do you want your parents to hear?

I feel sometimes that I'm not listened to. I would just want you to listen to me more often and evaluate situations with me. and lead me towards success. Listening is a form of love. Find resources to help you support your kids and their emotional well-being at soundedouttogether.org. That's sounded outtogether.org. Brought to you by the Ad Council and Pivotal.

I'm sure it's many more. I just given the number of people in your program that you told it to them that at least I think you've impacted 180 people from the number I've heard, but I think it's probably far beyond that too. It is. It is now, yes. I love your point. I'm just going to state it too that the shame or the stigma shouldn't go away because something did happen.

Right. And similarly, one of our guests who lost a child through a choking accident said, like, I don't want the hurt to ever go away. And a lot of people think you want it to go away. But she's like, if it fully goes away, I'm not remembering my child. And I always want to feel my child close to my heart. That's exactly right. So you get to prison. What's day one like? What's going through your head? I mean, you know, never really been any law enforcement trouble before or anything like that.

And so to be shackled, you know, with, and again, it's minimal compared to what the other family went through. So I'm not whining, complaining. I'm just describing. I just want to make that clear. but to be shackled and you have the black box and the belly chains and, you know, you have the, you're a number now. You're a last name and a number. And you're wearing the same thing as everybody else. Your identity is gone. You're, you know, you look like everyone else. And so there again. Your status is a business owner. It's gone. And, you know, I was served divorce papers shortly after I got to prison. And I'm going. I'm going. a vegan. And so at the time I was a vegetarian, how do you go to prison to be a vegetarian when everybody eats bologna, you know, bologna sandwiches? And so you have to learn yourself. You have to adapt to these situations, you know, and you have to say, okay, how do I survive this? And I think about Victor Frankel, you know, not to liken it to a concentration camp. Please hear me on that. my heart is for, you know, the people that had to endure the Holocaust.

All I mean is you're away from your family. You're having to adapt to new surroundings and things you're not familiar with. And so I was able to read that book, Man's Search for Significance while I was there, and Dietrich Bonhofer's book. And I spent a lot of time reading. And I found out about myself, you know, that I'm a survivor. and you can keep going. And it was terrifying.

It was terrifying. I lost my husband, my house, my business, my children. We had a, I was indigent. And so that means, you know, you have no outside help, no outside financing coming in on your books. And except for your gang pay or state pay, which was the equivalent of about $10 a month. And so God used.

that for me to help budget my nonprofit now so I can budget that nonprofit pretty well and make it work. But it's like, okay, I was starting to find out who I am, but now who am I? Who am I all over again? And so the beautiful thing is God turns beauty. He makes beauty out of ashes. And so that's what he did while I was there. I've heard you talk about that you did surrender to God in prison, but that didn't necessarily change everything for you, that you still felt a loss, which is, I found interesting because when most people talk about surrendering, the idea is, you have this incredible piece and your life is radically transformed. And I think that's probably true for a lot of people.

So I thought, talk to how you did not feel that way. Yeah, no, mine was probably gradually because I think I stated it right now, just a few minutes ago that I am, I am stubborn. I'm very much driven in whatever I do. Somehow I think I'm the manager of everything. And it's really laying it down. It's really surrendering saying, God, I won't pick it back up again. You have it because I don't know what to do. Clearly, I've made a mess of everything. So you teach me now. And so that's, that's what that's what that looks like to me, to literally lay it down and say, your way, not my way. And I, I, I, when I interview my new students, I asked them that, I asked them one thing. I said, are you teachable?

And I think for me, it was that. And I really don't take, uh, uh, mostly direction from, you know, just from anybody. I'm pretty particular. But I needed to take direction from the Lord. And he's the one that said, you know, walk this way. Here's the way. Walk in it. Left, right. Here we go. And, um, and, and that was it. It was just me surrendering to whatever. he wanted to do. And, you know, there was a lot of blood, sweat, tears, crying, a lot of anguish, a lot of loss. And I liken it to a pruning season. But I'm reminded that there's a beginning and an end to the pruning season. You just moved to another pruning season. And so there was a lot of old me that needed to go. Like where he says, you know, if there's anything in me,

you know, that you don't like, Lord, lay it on the altar and burn it up, you know, put me on the Potter's wheel, you do what you need to do in my life. And so it's that. That was hard to surrender that because I had to surrender loss and brokenness from my childhood. Some family members wrote me off, cut me off, and then getting served divorce papers while you're in prison. And it's like you come to the end of yourself. And just when you think you come to the end of yourself, you have not. There's still more ending. So it's that when I couldn't rely on all the money that I made because it wasn't there anymore. I couldn't rely on family members, always bringing my children to see me, because sometimes they weren't. I couldn't rely on a husband. And all I had was like, you know,

when God said, he talks about it in Isaiah 54, he says, I will be your husband. And so that's kind of what I had to take his lead. He showed me what a father's love was, which I was not familiar with. He showed me what surrender was, being obedient and humble. And you take your eyes. And you take your off yourself. There's a big world out there that needs help. And so I feel like he called me to go to the next step. Surrendering to the point where you say, you're not even asking God to get me the hell out of here, like even a lot of our guests. Well, that's interesting, right. And I did. And I had a year review, actually. So after I was there, a year, I still had not surrendered. So in that year, I had one year to go back to court. And the judge was going to say, you know, well done.

and faithful servant, go home early or not. And so I thought, if you get a year review, that's a, that's a shoe in. I'm going home. So I took all these Bible studies and did all this. I had 100 certificates. And I went back to court. And the judge said on record, he said, it was an unfortunate accident. But no, you got to go back and finish this time. And I was gutted. And I thought, I did all this work. So it was performance based. It wasn't a true surrender. So at that point, Like, I didn't even want to live. I was like, I'm done. What else is there?

The four years left seems like a lifetime, you know. Who couldn't wait on your wife for four years? Or who couldn't, you know, wait on a family member for four years? It might feel like a lifetime. But anyway, it didn't work out that way. So I had to go back. And that's when it happened. I was like, I have nothing else.

I barely even have hope. But I'm riding this thing out with you, God. So let's go. And it was that when I began working. in the beauty shop and the law library and everything at that point. All right. Let's get into the fun stuff. Take us there.

I didn't even think ever before in my whole life that there was a beauty shop in prison. I know. It makes sense, but it's probably never crossed most people's minds. No, orange is new black. I don't know if they show the beauty shop in there. But, I mean, you know, there's a barber shop and a beauty shop. And especially in Oklahoma, it's kind of part of the operation procedure. You have to have a means to be able to have some grooming.

And so there was that. And sometimes it's a little makeshift closet. And anyway, so I worked in the beauty shop and I'd been a salon owner. So they kind of let me be a little bit of a supervisory position. So the girls that didn't want to work in the kitchen that could braid hair thought that they were, you know, due to work in the beauty shop. So they would come and do interviews and I'd ask him to do a haircut and they're terrible. And I said, I thought you went to beauty school. And they said, I didn't get finished.

And I kept hearing that over and over. I didn't finish. I didn't finish. and I said, if you do anything, what would you do? I said, I would finish beauty school. So one day I was doing a shampoo and I always say, I met God at the shampoo bowl. I felt like he spoke to my heart and said, one day, you're going to come back and start to school.

And I said, it's his inmate on the back of my shirt. Are you kidding me? And I really felt that way. And no, I just pursued it. I knew he said it. I could count on him to be faithful and truthful with him. me, and I couldn't see it any other way. So I began speaking to other people about it and talking about it to the case managers, and they're like, okay, crazy lady, sure. That's never happened before.

And I just kept saying, one of these days, hey, when I come back, that's what I'm going to do. When I come back, and they said, okay, okay, sure. You think they've heard that kind of crazy stuff from a lot of prisoners before? Yes, I'm sure. I wanted to call it color corrections, and they didn't, They didn't think that was funny, you know. And I worked in the law library as well, and I helped the ladies with their year review or their, you know, all their paperwork to go back to court. So I learned a lot about the court system and justice impacted individuals and the ops for Department of Corrections, which I use every day now, the tool cage and what that looks like and the log books and all the things that are necessary. I didn't know it at the time. And, yeah.

So I just. began talking about it, saying, matter of factly, this is what God said and this is what I'm going to do. And I had one beautiful, wonderful lady, Dr. Pittman, and she was up top, worked in administration, very close to the director. And I would see her occasionally. They moved me to another facility. I would see her. I said, hey, do remember me? I'm coming back to start a school. She's like, okay. Yeah, I do. I do. And then she said, okay, fine, come and see me when you get out. The next day when I got out, I went to see her. And she said, oh my gosh, you're not kidding. I said, so when are we going to do this?

So it went on a couple more years, and I just kept saying it. I opened up a bank account by faith. I went to Saddleback Church in Lake Forest, California, and said in front of 4,000 people, I'm starting a beauty school, and I didn't have a dollar to my name or a bank account at the time. And I was just like, I said, well, Lord, you really better come through on this. And that concludes part one of our conversation. with Christy Luther and you don't want to miss part two that's now available to listen to. Together, guys, we can change this country.

And it starts with you. I'll see in part two. What if mind control is real? If you could control the behavior of anybody around you, what kind of life would you have? Can you hypnotically persuade someone to buy a car? When you look at your car, you're going to become overwhelmed with such good feelings. Can you hypnotize someone into sleeping with you? I gave her some suggestions to be sexually harassed.

Can you get someone to join your cult? NLP was used on me to access my subconscious. Mind Games, a new podcast exploring NLP, aka neurolinguistic programming. Is it a self-help miracle, a shady hypnosis scam, or both? Listen to Mind Games on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Saturday, May 2nd, country's biggest stars will be in Austin, Texas. At our 2026 IHeart Country Festival presented by capital. One. Tickets are on sale now.

Get yours before they sell out at Ticketmaster.com. That's Ticketmaster.com. And the winner of the IHeart Podcast Award is, you can decide who takes home the 26 IHard Podcast Awards Podcast of the year by voting at IHeartPodcastawards.com now through February 22nd. See all the nominees and place your vote at IHeartPodcastawards.com. Audible is a proud sponsor of the Audible Audio Pioneer Award. Explore the best selection of audiobooks podcast.

and originals all in one easy app. Audible. There's more to imagine when you listen. Sign up for a free trial at audible.com. You know Roald Dahl. He thought up Willie Wonka and the BFG. But did you know he was a spy? In the new podcast,

The Secret World of Roll Dahl, I'll tell you that story, and much, much more. What? You probably won't believe it either. Was this before he wrote his stories? It must have been. Okay, I don't think that's true.

I'm telling you. I was a spy. Listen to the secret world of Roll Doll on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an IHeart podcast, guaranteed human.